§ 10.0 p.m.
§ The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr. J. Enoch Powell)I beg to move,
That section four of the Finance Act, 1947 (which provides for relief for pensioners in respect of increase in tobacco duty), shall cease to have effect.This Ways and Means Resolution is necessary to pave the way for Clause 3 of the Bill to which the House has just given a Second Reading, and which repeals the provisions of the 1947 Finance Act under which the tobacco token scheme has operated. A good deal of reference has been made to this alteration in the debate which has just concluded in the House, and I need not long detain the Committee in justifying this Ways and Means Resolution.The Committee is familiar with the circumstances in which the scheme was introduced in 1947. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Bishop Auckland (Mr. Dalton) had increased the Tobacco Duty by 43 per cent., and it was considered desirable, if possible, to work out a scheme which would prevent that dramatic increase in the Tobacco Duty from reducing the purchasing power of the existing retirement pensioners; and so, in that year, the tobacco token scheme as we have had it from than to now was brought into effect.
It was a complicated scheme, difficult to work out and expensive to operate. It costs about £125,000 a year to operate the scheme. When it came into force about 1,400,000 retirement pensioners benefited from it, about 40 per cent. of the 1089 total. That figure has now risen to 2,600,000, or 54 per cent. It is a remarkable but little noticed sociological fact that the proportion of habitual smokers among retirement pensioners has risen from 40 per cent. to 54 per cent. over the last ten years. Or has it?
From the beginning of this scheme it was found that it inevitably involved severe unfairness and anomalies. My right hon. Friend already reminded the House that it applies only to the retirement pensioners under the 1946 Act and to old-age pensioners under the 1936 Act. Whole classes of pensioners who are at least in equal need and in similar circumstances are excluded from it—the retirement pensioner who is in hospital or an institution where the pensions are collected by the schedule system instead of by the books; the war pensioner or the industrially injured pensioner who is not at the same time a retirement pensioner; and there is the recipient of National Assistance who is not also in receipt of a pension under the 1936 or 1946 Acts. All these classes of persons have been arbitrarily excluded, of administrative necessity, from the benefits of the scheme.
What is more important, however, is that its effect has totally changed over the years. What was intended to be a maintenance of the status quo for existing pensioners has become a gross discrimination between two pensioners in otherwise identical circumstances, between the pensioner who is and the pensioner who is not an habitual smoker. So the opinion has gained ground, and has been expressed repeatedly on both sides of the Committee, that the disappearance of this scheme was overdue. In the debate on 6th June last year, hon. Members on both-sides
§ argued that it ought to be abolished and replaced by a cash payment. Indeed, I think that there will be general agreement that social security payments ought to be made on a cash basis and not in terms of commodities or artificially cheapened prices.
§
That point of view was perhaps best expressed by the hon. Member for Tottenham (Sir F. Messer), in the debate on this year's Finance Bill, in a remarkable speech in which he said:
I think that it is humiliating when a handicapped person has—as old people have to do at the present time—to show some sort of identification to get something on the cheap, old people getting tobacco coupons, cheap or free baths, free transport by the local authority…. What we ought to do is to assure them of an income."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 23rd May, 1957; Vol. 570, c. 1469.]
§ These anomalies and this unjust discrimination between two otherwise identical classes of people will be removed by the Clause which this Ways and Means Resolution makes possible, and I would remind the Committee that throughout the whole range of benefits which are to be increased full account has been taken of the abolition of the scheme. What this Ways and Means Resolution makes possible is an act of fairness and of common sense, and hon. Members on both sides of the Committee know it to be so.
§ Mr. H. Hynd (Accrington)I will not detain the Committee except to say that this is the meanest thing that the Government have done yet and that they ought to be ashamed of themselves.
§ Question put:—
§ The Committee divided: Ayes 294, Noes 226.
1091| Division No. 3.] | AYES | [10.7 p.m. |
| Agnew, Sir Peter | Bell, Ronald (Bucks, S.) | Bullus, Wing Commander E. E. |
| Aitken, W. T. | Bennett, Dr. Reginald | Burden, F. F. A. |
| Allan, R. A. (Paddington, S.) | Bevins, J. R. (Toxteth) | Butcher, Sir Herbert |
| Alport, C. J. M. | Biggs-Davison, J. A. | Butler, Rt. Hn. R. A. (Saffron Walden) |
| Amery, Julian (Preston, N.) | Birch, Rt. Hon. Nigel | Campbell, Sir David |
| Amory, Rt. Hn. Heathcoat (Tiverton) | Bishop, F. P. | Carr, Robert |
| Armstrong, C. W. | Black, C. W. | Cary, Sir Robert |
| Ashton, H. | Body, R. F. | Channon, Sir Henry |
| Astor, Hon. J. J. | Boothby, Sir Robert | Chichester-Clark, R. |
| Atkins, H. E. | Bossom, Sir Alfred | Churchill, Rt. Hon. Sir Winston |
| Baldock, Lt.-Cmdr. J. M. | Boyd-Carpenter, Rt. Hon. J. A. | Clarke, Brig. Terence (Portsmth, W.) |
| Baldwin, A. E. | Boyle, Sir Edward | Cole, Norman |
| Balniel, Lord | Braine, B. R. | Conant, Maj. Sir Roger |
| Barber, Anthony | Braithwaite, Sir Albert (Harrow, W.) | Cooke, Robert |
| Barlow, Sir John | Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. W. H. | Cooper, A. E. |
| Barter, John | Brooke, Rt. Hon. Henry | Cooper-Key, E. M. |
| Baxter, Sir Beverley | Brooman-White, R. C. | Cordeaux, Lt.-Col. J. K. |
| Beamish. Maj. Tufton | Browne, J. Nixon (Craigton) | Corfield, Capt. F. V. |
| Bell, Philip (Bolton, E.) | Bryan, P. | Craddock, Beresford (Spelthorne) |
| Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E. | Hughes Hallett, Vice-Admiral J. | Osborne, C. |
| Crowder, Sir John (Finchley) | Hughes-Young, M. H. C. | Page, R. G. |
| Crowder, Petre (Ruislip—Northwood) | Hulbert, Sir Norman | Pannell, N. A. (Kirkdale) |
| Cunningham, Knox | Hurd, A. R. | Partridge, E. |
| Dance, J. C. G. | Hutchison, Michael Clark (E'b'gh, S.) | Peyton, J. W. W. |
| Davidson, Viscountess | Hutchison, Sir Ian Clark (E'b'gh, W.) | Pickthorn, K. W. M. |
| D'Avigdor-Goldsmid, Sir Henry | Hyde, Montgomery | Pike, Miss Mervyn |
| Deedes, W. F. | Hylton-Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Harry | Pilktington, Capt. R. A. |
| Digby, Simon Wingfield | Iremonger, T. L. | Pitt, Miss E. M. |
| Dodds-Parker, A. D. | Irvine, Bryant Godman (Rye) | Pott, H. P. |
| Donaldson, Cmdr. C. E. McA. | Jenkins, Robert (Dulwich) | Powell, J. Enoch |
| Doughty, C. J. A. | Jennings, J. C. (Burton) | Price, David (Eastleigh) |
| Drayson, G. B. | Johnson, Dr. Donald (Carlisle) | Price, Henry (Lewisham, W.) |
| du Cann, E. D. L. | Johnson, Eric (Blackley) | Profumo, J. D. |
| Dugdale, Rt. Hn. Sir T. (Richmond) | Joynson-Hicks, Hon. Sir Lancelot | Rawlinson, Peter |
| Duncan, Sir James | Kaberry, D. | Redmayne, M. |
| Duthie, W. S. | Keegan, D. | Rees-Davies, W. R. |
| Eccles, Rt. Hon. Sir David | Kerby, Capt. H. B. | Remnant, Hon. P. |
| Eden, J. B. (Bournemouth, West) | Kerr, Sir Hamilton | Renton, D. L. M. |
| Elliott, R. W. (N'castle upon Tyne, N.) | Kershaw, J. A. | Ridsdale, J. E. |
| Emmet, Hon. Mrs. Evelyn | Kimball, M. | Rippon, A. G. F. |
| Errington, Sir Eric | Kirk, P. M. | Roberts, Sir Peter (Heeley) |
| Erroll, F. J. | Lagden, G. W. | Robertson, Sir David |
| Farey-Jones, F. W. | Lambert, Hon. G. | Robinson, Sir Roland (Blackpool, S.) |
| Fell, A. | Lambton, Viscount | Robson Brown, Sir William |
| Finlay, Graeme | Lancaster, Col. C. G. | Rodgers, John (Sevenoaks) |
| Fisher, Nigel | Langford-Holt, J. A. | Roper, Sir Harold |
| Fletcher-Cooke, C. | Leavey, J. A. | Ropner, Col. Sir Leonard |
| Fort, R. | Leburn, W. G. | Russell. R. S. |
| Foster, John | Legge-Bourke, Maj. E. A. H. | Sandys, Rt. Hon. D. |
| Fraser, Hon. Hugh (Stone) | Legh, Hon. Peter (Petersfield) | Schofield, Lt.-Col. W. |
| Fraser, Sir Ian (M'cmbe & Lonsdale) | Lennox-Boyd, Rt. Hon. A. T. | Scott-Miller, Cmdr. R. |
| Freeth, Denzil | Lindsay, Hon. James (Devon, N.) | Sharples, R. C. |
| Gammans, Lady | Lindsay, Martin (Solihull) | Shepherd, William |
| Garner-Evans, E. H. | Linstead, Sir H. N. | Simon, J. E. S. (Middlesbrough W.) |
| George, J. C. (Pollok) | Llewellyn, D. T. | Smyth, Brig. Sir John (Norwood) |
| Gibson-Watt, D. | Lloyd, Rt. Hon. G. (Sutton Coldfield) | Soames, Christopher |
| Glover, D. | Lloyd, Maj. Sir Guy (Renfrew, E.) | Spearman, Sir Alexander |
| Glyn, Col. Richard H. | Lloyd, Rt. Hon. Selwyn (Wirral) | Speir, R. M. |
| Godber, J. B. | Low, Rt. Hon. Sir Toby | Spence, H. R. (Aberdeen, W.) |
| Gomme-Duncan, Col. Sir Alan | Lucas, Sir Jocelyn (Portsmouth, S.) | Stevens, Geoffrey |
| Goodhart, Philip | Lucas, P. B. (Brentford & Chiswick) | Steward, Harold (Stockport, S.) |
| Gough, C. F. H. | Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh | Steward, Sir William (Woolwich, W.) |
| Gower, H. R. | McAdden, S. J. | Stoddart-Scott, Col. Sir Malcolm |
| Graham, Sir Fergus | Macdonald, Sir Peter | Storey, S. |
| Grant, W. (Woodside) | McKibbin, Alan | Stuart, Rt. Hon. James (Moray) |
| Grant-Ferris, Wg Cdr. R. (Nantwich) | Mackie, J. H. (Galloway) | Studholme, Sir Henry |
| Green, A. | McLaughlin, Mrs. P. | Summers, Sir Spencer |
| Gresham Cooke, R. | Maclay, Rt. Hon. John | Sumner, W. D. M. (Orpington) |
| Gurden, Harold | Maclean, Sir Fitzroy (Lancaster) | Taylor, Sir Charles (Eastbourne) |
| Hall, John (Wycombe) | McLean, Neil (Inverness) | Taylor, William (Bradford, N.) |
| Hare, Rt. Hon. J. H. | Macleod, Rt. Hn. Iain (Enfield, W.) | Teeling, W. |
| Harris, Frederic (Croydon, N.W.) | MacLeod, John (Ross & Cromarty) | Temple, John M. |
| Harris, Reader (Heston) | Macmillan, Rt. Hn. Harold (Bromley) | Thomas, Leslie (Canterbury) |
| Harrison, A. B. C. (Maldon) | Macmillan, Maurice (Halifax) | Thomas, P. J. M. (Conway) |
| Harrison, Col. J. H. (Eye) | Macpherson, Niall (Dumfries) | Thompson, Kenneth (Walton) |
| Harvey, Sir Arthur (Macclesfd) | Maitland, Cdr. J. F. W. (Horncastle) | Thompson, Lt.-Cdr. R. (Croydon, S.) |
| Harvey, Ian (Harrow, E.) | Manningham-Buller, Rt. Hn. Sir R. | Thorneycroft, Rt. Hon. P. |
| Harvey, John (Walthamstow, E.) | Markham, Major Sir Frank | Thornton-Kemsley, C. N. |
| Harvie-Watt, Sir George | Marples, Rt. Hon. A. E. | Tiley, A. (Bradford, W.) |
| Hay, John | Marshall, Douglas | Tilney, John (Wavertree) |
| Head, Rt. Hon. A. H. | Mathew, R. | Tweedsmuir, Lady |
| Heald, Rt. Hon. Sir Lionel | Maude, Angus | Vane, W. M. F. |
| Heath, Rt. Hon. E. R. G. | Maydon, Lt.-Comdr. S. L. C. | Vaughan, Morgan, J. K. |
| Henderson, John (Cathcart) | Medlicott, Sir Frank | Vickers, Miss Joan |
| Henderson-Stewart, Sir James | Milligan, Rt. Hon. W. R. | Wakefield, Sir Wavell (St. M'lebone) |
| Hesketh, R. F. | Molson, Rt. Hon. Hugh | Walker-Smith, Rt. Hon. Derek |
| Hicks-Beach, Maj. W. W. | Morrison, John (Salisbury) | Wall, Major Patrick |
| Hill, Rt. Hon. Charles (Luton) | Mott-Radclyffe, Sir Charles | Ward, Rt. Hon. G. R. (Worcester) |
| Hill, Mrs. E. (Wythenshawe) | Nabarro, G. D. N. | Ward, Dame Irene (Tynemouth) |
| Hill, John (S. Norfolk) | Nairn, D. L. S. | Watkinson, Rt. Hon. Harold |
| Hirst, Geoffrey | Neave, Airey | Webbe, Sir H. |
| Hobson, John (Warwick & Leam'gt'n) | Nicholls, Harmar | Whitelaw, W. S. I. |
| Holland-Martin, C. J. | Nicolson, N. (B'n'm'th, E. & Chr'ch) | Williams, Paul (Sunderland, S.) |
| Hornby, R. P. | Nugent, G. R. H. | Williams, R. Dudley (Exeter) |
| Hornsby-Smith, Miss M. P. | O'Neill, Hn. Phelim (Co. Antrim, N.) | Wood, Hon. R. |
| Horsbrugh, Rt. Hon. Dame Florence | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. W. D. | Yates, William (The Wrekin) |
| Howard, Gerald (Cambridgeshire) | Orr, Capt. L. P. S. | |
| Howard, Hon. Greville (St. Ives) | Orr-Ewing, Charles Ian (Hendon, N.) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES |
| Howard, John (Test) | Orr-Ewing, Sir Ian (Weston-S-Mare) | Mr. Oakshott and Mr. Wills. |
| NOES | ||
| Ainsley, J. W. | Hannan, W. | Parkin, B. T. |
| Albu, A. H. | Harrison, J. (Nottingham, N.) | Paton, John |
| Allaun, Frank (Salford, E.) | Hastings, S. | Pearson, A. |
| Allen, Arthur (Bosworth) | Hayman, F. H. | Peart, T. F. |
| Allen, Scholefield (Crewe) | Healey, Denis | Pentland, N. |
| Awbery, S. S. | Henderson, Rt. Hn. A. (Rwly Regis) | Plummer, Sir Leslie |
| Bacon, Miss Alice | Herbison, Miss M. | Popplewell, E. |
| Baird, J. | Hewitson, Capt. M. | Prentice, R. E. |
| Balfour, A. | Hobson, C. R. (Keighley) | Price, J. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Bellenger, Rt. Hon. F. J. | Holman, P. | Price, Philips (Gloucestershire, W.) |
| Bence, C. R. (Dunbartonshire, E.) | Holmes, Horace | Probert, A. R. |
| Benson, G. | Howell, Charles (Perry Barr) | Proctor, W. T. |
| Beswick, Frank | Howell, Denis (All Saints) | Pryde, D. J. |
| Blackburn, F. | Hoy, J. H. | Pursey, Cmdr. H. |
| Blenkinsop, A. | Hubbard, T. F. | Randall, H. E. |
| Blyton, W. R. | Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayrshire) | Rankin, John |
| Boardman, H. | Hunter, A. E. | Redhead, E. C. |
| Bottomley, Rt. Hon. A. G. | Hynd, H. (Accrington) | Reeves, J. |
| Bowden, H. W. (Leicester, S.W.) | Hynd, J. B. (Attercliffe) | Reid, William |
| Bowles, F. G. | Irvine, A. J. (Edge Hill) | Robens, Rt. Hon. A. |
| Boyd, T. C. | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. G. A. | Roberts, Albert (Normanton) |
| Braddock, Mrs. Elizabeth | Janner, B. | Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvon) |
| Brockway, A. F. | Jay, Rt. Hon. D. P. T. | Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.) |
| Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. | Jeger, George (Goole) | Rogers, George (Kensington, N.) |
| Brown, Thomas (Ince) | Jeger, Mrs. Lena (Holbn & St. Pncs, S.) | Ross, William |
| Burke, W. A. | Jones, Rt. Hon. A. Creech (Wakefield) | Royle, C. |
| Burton, Miss F. E. | Jones, David (The Hartlepools) | Short, E. W. |
| Butler, Herbert (Hackney, C.) | Jones, Elwyn (W. Ham, S.) | Silverman, Julius (Aston) |
| Butler, Mrs. Joyce (Wood Green) | Jones, Jack (Rotherham) | Silverman, Sydney (Nelson) |
| Callaghan, L. J. | Jones, J. Idwal (Wrexham) | Skeffington, A. M. |
| Castle, Mrs. B. A. | Jones, T. W. (Merioneth) | Slater, Mrs. H. (Stoke, N.) |
| Champion, A. J. | Kenyon, C. | Slater, J. (Sedgefield) |
| Clunie, J. | Key, Rt. Hon. C. W. | Smith, Ellis (Stoke, S.) |
| Coldrick, W. | Lawson, G. M. | Snow, J. W. |
| Collick, P. H. (Birkenhead) | Lee, Frederick (Newton) | Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank |
| Collins, V. J. (Shoreditch & Finsbury) | Lee, Miss Jennie (Cannock) | Sparks, J. A. |
| Craddock, George (Bradford, S.) | Lover, Harold (Cheetham) | Steele, T. |
| Cronin, J. D. | Lewis, Arthur | Stewart, Michael (Fulham) |
| Crossman, R. H. S. | Lindgren, G. S. | Stonehouse, John |
| Cullen, Mrs. A. | Mabon, Dr. J. Dickson | Strachey, Rt. Hon. J. |
| Dalton, Rt. Hon. H. | MacColl, J. E. | Stross, Dr. Barnett (Stoke-on-Trent, C.) |
| Darling, George (Hillsborough) | McGhee, H. G. | Swingler, S. T. |
| Davies, Harold (Leek) | McInnes, J. | Sylvester, G. O. |
| Davies, Stephen (Merthyr) | McKay, John (Wallsend) | Taylor, Bernard (Mansfield) |
| Deer, G. | McLeavy, Frank | Taylor, John (West Lothian) |
| Delargy, H. J. | MacMillan, M. K. (Western Isles) | Thomas, George (Cardiff) |
| Diamond, John | MacPherson, Malcolm (Stirling) | Thornton, E. |
| Donnelly, D. L. | Mahon, Simon | Timmons, J. |
| Dugdale, Rt. Hn. John (W. Brmwch) | Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) | Tomney, F. |
| Dye, S. | Mann, Mrs. Jean | Ungoed-Thomas, Sir Lynn |
| Ede, Rt. Hon. J. C. | Marquand, Rt. Hon. H. A. | Viant, S. P. |
| Edelman, M. | Mason, Roy | Watkins, T. E. |
| Edwards, Rt. Hon. Ness (Caerphilly) | Messer, Sir F. | Weitzman, D. |
| Edwards, Robert (Bilston) | Mikardo, Ian | Wells, Percy (Faversham) |
| Edwards, W. J. (Stepney) | Mitchison, G. R. | Wells, William (Walsall, N.) |
| Evans, Albert (Islington, S.W.) | Monslow, W. | West, D. G. |
| Evans, Edward (Lowestoft) | Moody, A. S. | Wheeldon, W. E. |
| Fernyhough, E. | Morris, Percy (Swansea, W.) | White, Henry (Derbyshire, N.E.) |
| Fienburgh, W. | Morrison, Rt. Hn. Herbert (Lewis'm, S.) | Wigg, George |
| Finch, H. J. | Mort, D. L. | Wilcock, Group Capt. C. A. B. |
| Fletcher, Eric | Moss, R. | Willey, Frederick |
| Foot, D. M. | Moyle, A. | Williams, David (Neath) |
| Fraser, Thomas (Hamilton) | Mulley, F. W. | Williams, Rev. Llywelyn (Ab'tillery) |
| Gaitskell, Rt. Hon. H. T. N. | Neal, Harold (Bolsover) | Williams, Ronald (Wigan) |
| George, Lady Megan Lloyd (Car'then | Noel-Baker, Francis (Swindon) | Williams, Rt. Hon. T. (Don Valley) |
| Gibson, C. W. | O'Brien, Sir Thomas | Williams, W. R. (Openshaw) |
| Gooch, E. G. | Oliver, G. H. | Willis, Eustace (Edinburgh, E.) |
| Greenwood, Anthony | Oram, A. E. | Wilson, Rt. Hon. Harold (Huyton) |
| Grenfell, Rt. Hon. D. R. | Orbach, M. | Winterbottom, Richard |
| Grey, C. F. | Oswald, T. | Woodburn, Rt. Hon. A. |
| Griffiths, David (Rother Valley) | Owen, W. J. | Woof, R. E. |
| Griffiths, Rt. Hon. James (Llanelly) | Paling, Rt. Hon. W. (Dearne Valley) | Yates, V. (Ladywood) |
| Griffiths, William (Exchange) | Paling, Will T. (Dewsbury) | Younger, Rt. Hon. K. |
| Hale, Leslie | Palmer, A. M. F. | Zilliacus, K. |
| Hall, Rt. Hn. Glenvil (Colne Valley) | Pargiter, G. A. | |
| Hamilton, W. W. | Parker, J. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES: |
| Mr. Wilkins and Mr. Simmons. |
§ Resolution to be reported.
§ Report to be received Tomorrow.
§ Committee to sit again Tomorrow.