HC Deb 25 October 1949 vol 468 cc1198-202
Mr. Blenkinsop

rose

Mr. R. S. Hudson

On a point of Order. Mr. Speaker has said that he was in some doubt as to whether to call the Amendment in page 45, line 17, but that in any case he would give us an opportunity of voting on it, having regard to the discussion which had taken place earlier. I hope that we may be able to divide on this Amendment because we attach considerable importance to the principle.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker (Mr. Bowles)

Judging by Mr. Speaker's Order Paper, the Amendment is not selected. Is the right hon. Gentleman prepared to move it so that the House may divide on it right away?

Mr. Hudson

I beg to move, in page 45, line 17, to leave out from "consents," to the end of line 20.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."

The House divided: Ayes, 229; Noes, 110.

Division No. 259.] AYES [5.5 p.m.
Acland, Sir Richard Bing, G. H. C. Butler, H. W. (Hackney, S.)
Albu, A. H. Binns, J. Carmichael, James
Allen, A. C. (Bosworth) Blackburn, A. R. Champion, A. J.
Anderson, A. (Motherwell) Blenkinsop, A. Chater, D.
Attewell, H. C. Blyton, W. R. Chetwynd, G. R.
Austin, H. Lewis Boardman, H. Cluse, W. S.
Awbery, S. S. Bottomley, A. G. Cobb, F. A.
Ayrton Gould, Mrs. B. Bowden, H. W. Cocks, F. S.
Balfour, A. Braddock, Mrs. E. M. (L'pl, Exch'ge) Collick, P.
Barnes, Rt. Hon. A. J. Braddock, T. (Mitcham) Collindridge, F.
Barstow, P. G. Bramall, E. A. Colman, Miss G. M.
Barton, C. Brook, D. (Halifax) Corlett, Dr. J.
Battley, J. R. Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. Cove, W. G.
Bechervaise, A. E. Brown, T. J. (Ince) Crawley, A.
Beswick, F. Bruce, Maj. D. W. T. Crossman, R. H. S.
Bevan, Rt. Hon. A. (Ebbw Vale) Burden, T. W. Cullen, Mrs.
Daggar, G. Jones, P. Asterley (Hitchin) Scott-Elliot, W.
Daines, P. Keenan, W. Segal, Dr. S.
Davies, Edward (Burslem) Key, Rt. Hon. C. W. Sharp, Granville
Davies, Ernest (Enfield) Kinghorn, Sqn.-Ldr. E. Shinwell, Rt. Hon. E.
Davies, Harold (Leak) Kinley, J. Silverman, J. (Erdington)
Davies, Haydn (St. Pancras, S. W.) Lawson, Rt. Hon. J. J. Silverman, S. S. (Nelson)
Davies, R. J. (Westhougnton) Lee, F. (Hulme) Simmons, C. J.
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Lee, Miss J. (Cannock) Skeffington-Lodge, T. C.
Deer, G. Leonard, W. Skinnard, F. W.
Delargy, H. J. Lewis, A. W. J. (Upton) Smith, Ellis (Stoke)
Dodds, N. N. Lipton, Lt.-Col. M. Smith, H. N. (Nottingham, S.)
Driberg, T. E. N. Logan, D. G. Smith, S. H. (Hull, S. W.)
Dugdale, J. (W. Bromwich) Lyne, A. W. Snow, J. W.
Dumpleton, C. W. McAdam, W. Sorensen, R. W.
Evans, Albert (Islington, W.) McGhee, H. G. Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank
Evans, E. (Lowestoft) Mack, J. D. Sparks, J. A.
Evans, John {Ogmore) McKay, J. (Wallsend) Swingler, S.
Evans, S. N. (Wednesbury) McLeavy, F. Sylvester, G. O.
Ewart, R. MacPherson, Malcolm (Stirling) Symonds, A. L.
Fairhurst, F. Macpherson, T. (Romford) Taylor, H. B. (Mansfield)
Farthing, W. J. Mainwaring, W. H. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Fernyhough, E. Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Thomas, D. E. (Aberdare)
Follick, M. Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield) Thorneycroft, Harry (Clayton)
Forman, J. C. Mann, Mrs. J. Thurtle, Ernest
Fraser, T. (Hamilton) Manning, Mrs. L. (Epping) Tiffany, S.
Gaitskell, Rt. Hon. H. T. N. Mathers, Rt. Hon. George Tolley, L.
Gallacher, W. Mellish, R. J. Turner-Samuels, M.
Ganley, Mrs. C. S. Mikardo, Ian Ungoed-Thomas, L.
Gilzean, A. Monslow, W. Vernon, Maj. W. F.
Glaville, J. E. (Consett) Morgan, Dr. H. B. Viant, S. P.
Gooch, E. G. Morley, R. Wallace, G. D. (Chislehurst)
Goodrich, H. E. Morris, Lt.-Col. H. (Sheffield, C.) Wallace, H. W. (Walthamstow, E.)
Greenwood, A. W. J. (Heywood) Mort, D. L. Warbey, W. N.
Grenfell, D. R. Murray, J. D. Watkins, T. E.
Grierson, E. Nally, W. Watson, W. M.
Griffiths, D. (Rother Valley) Naylor, T. E. Webb, M. (Bradford, C.)
Guest, Dr. L. Haden Neal, H. (Claycross) Wells, P. L. (Faversham)
Gunter, R. J. Nichol, Mrs. M. E. (Bradford, N.) Wells, W. T. (Walsall)
Haire, John E. (Wycombe) Oldfield, W. H. West, D. G.
Hale, Leslie Paget, R. T. Wheatley, Rt. Hn. John (Edinb'gh, E.)
Hamilton, Lieut.-Col. R. Pannell, T. C. White, H. (Derbyshire, N. E.)
Hannan, W. (Maryhill) Pargiter, G. A. Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W.
Hardy, E. A. Parker, J. Wigg, George
Harrison, J. Parkin, B. T. Wilkins, W. A.
Holman, P. Paton, Mrs. F. (Rushcliffe) Willey, F. T. (Sunderland)
Holmes, H. E. (Hemsworth) Paton, J. (Norwich) Williams, J. L. (Kelvingrove)
Horabin, T. L. Pearson, A. Williams, Ronald (Wigan)
Houghton, Douglas Popplewell, E. Williams, W. T. (Hammersmith, S.)
Hoy, J. Porter, E. (Warrington) Williams, W. R. (Heston)
Hudson, J. H. (Ealing, W.) Porter, G. (Leeds) Willis, E.
Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayr) Proctor, W. T. Woodburn, Rt. Hon. A.
Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Pryde, D. J. Woods, G. S.
Hughes, H. D. (W'lverh'pton, W.) Randall, H. E. Wyatt, W.
Hynd, H. (Hackney, C.) Rankin, J. Yates, V. F.
Hynd, J. B. (Attercliffe) Reeves, J.
Irvine, A. J. (Liverpool) Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.) TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Irving, W. J. (Tottenham, N.) Rogers, G. H. R. Mr. Joseph Henderson and
Johnston, Douglas Ross, William (Kilmarnock) Mr. Richard Adams.
NOES
Agnew, Cmdt P. G. Davidson, Viscountess Hutchison, Col. J. R. (Glasgow, C.)
Amory, D. Heathcoat De la Bère, R. Jeffreys, General Sir G.
Assheton, Rt. Hon. R. Dower, Col. A. V. G. (Penrith) Jennings, R.
Astor, Hon. M. Dower, E. L. G. (Caithness) Joynson-Hicks, Hon. L. W.
Baldwin, A. E. Drayson, G. B. Keeling, E. H.
Barlow, Sir J. Drewe, C. Lambert, Hon. G.
Baxter, A. B. Duthie, W. S. Lancaster, Col. C. G.
Beamish, Maj. T. V. H. Eccles, D. M. Legge-Bourke, Maj. E. A. H.
Bennett, Sir P. Eden, Rt. Hon. A. Lindsay, M. (Solihull)
Birch, Nigel Erroll, F. J. Lipson, D. L.
Bowen, R. Fraser, H. C. P. (Stone) Lloyd, Maj. Guy (Renfrew, E.)
Bower, N. Galbraith, Cmdr. T. D. (Potlok) MacAndrew, Col. Sir C.
Boyd-Carpenter, J. A. Glyn, Sir R. McCallum, Maj. D.
Bracken, Rt. Hon. Brendan Gomme-Duncan, Col. A. Macdonald, Sir P. (I. of Wight)
Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. W. Granville, E. (Eye) McFarlane, C. S.
Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T. Grimston, R. V. Mackeson, Brig, H. R.
Butcher, H. W. Head, Brig. A. H. McKie, J. H. (Galloway)
Byers, Frank Hollis, M. C. Maclay, Hon. J. S.
Channon, H. Holmes, Sir J. Stanley (Harwich) Macmillan, Rt. Hon. Harold (Bromley)
Clarke, Col. R. S. Hope, Lord J. Maitland, Comdr. J. W.
Cooper-Key, E. M. Hudson, Rt. Hon. R. S. (Southport) Marlowe, A. A. H.
Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E. Hulbert, Wing-Cdr N. J. Marshall, D. (Bodmin)
Crowder, Capt. John E. Hutchison, Lt.-Cm. Clark (E'b'rgh, W.) Maude, J. C.
Mellor, Sir J. Robinson, Roland (Blackpool, S.) Thorneycroft, G. E. P. (Monmouth)
Morris-Jones, Sir H. Ropner, Col. L. Thornton-Kemsley, C. N.
Morrison, Maj. J. G. (Salisbury) Sanderson, Sir F. Thorp, Brigadier R. A. F.
Mott-Radclyffe, C. E. Savory, Prof. D. L. Touche, G. C.
Neven-Spence, Sir B. Scott, Lord W. Vane, W. M. F.
Orr-Ewing, I. L. Shephard, S. (Newark) Wakefield, Sir W. W.
Paake, Rt. Hon. O. Shepherd, W. S. (Bucklow) Ward, Hon. G. R.
Pato, Brig. C. H. M. Smiles, Lt.-Col. Sir W. Webbe, Sir H. (Abbey)
Pickthorn, K. Smithers, Sir W. Wheatley, Colonel M. J. (Dorset, E.)
Ponsonby, Col. C. E. Spence, H. R. Williams, C. (Torquay)
Poole, O. B. S. (Oswestry) Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.) Williams, Gerald (Tonbridge)
Prior-Palmer, Brig. O. Stoddart-Scott, Col. M. Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Raikes, H. V. Strauss, Henry (English Universities) Young, Sir A. S. L. (Partick)
Reed, Sir S. (Aylesbury) Stuart, Rt. Hon. J. (Moray)
Roberts, P. G. (Ecclesall) Sutcliffe, H. TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Robertson, Sir D. (Streatham) Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (P'dd't'n, S.) Mr. Studholme and Major Conant.
Division No. 260.] AYES [5.32 p.m.
Acland, Sir Richard Glanville, J. E. (Corsett) Pargiter, G. A.
Albu, A. H. Gooch, E. G. Parker, J.
Allen, A. C. (Bosworth) Greenwood, A. W. J. (Heywood) Parkin, B. T.
Anderson, A. (Motherwell) Grenfell, D. R. Paton, Mrs. F. (Rushcliffe)
Attewell, H. C. Grey, C. F. Paton, J. (Norwich)
Austin, H. Lewis Grierson, E. Pearson, A.
Awbery, S. S. Griffiths, D. (Rother Valley) Popplewell, E.
Ayrton Gould, Mrs. B. Guest, Dr. L. Haden Porter, E. (Warrington)
Balfour, A. Gunter, R. J. Porter, G. (Leeds)
Barnes, Rt. Hon. A. J. Hale, Leslie Proctor, W. T.
Barstow, P. G. Hamilton, Lieut.-Col. R. Pryde, D. J.
Barton, C. Hannan, W. (Maryhill) Randall, H. E.
Battley, J. R. Hardy, E. A. Rankin, J.
Bechervaise, A. E. Harrison, J. Reeves, J.
Beswick, F. Holman, P. Robinson, Kenneth (St. Pancras, N.)
Bevan, Rt. Hon. A. (Ebbw Vale) Holmes, H. E. (Hemsworth) Rogers, G. H. R.
Bing, G. H. C. Horabin, T. L. Ross, William (Kilmarnock)
Binns, J. Houghton, Douglas Segal, Dr. S.
Blackburn, A. R. Hoy, J. Sharp, Granville
Blenkinsop, A. Hudson, J. H. (Ealing, W.) Shawcross, C. N. (Widnes)
Blyton, W. R. Hughes, Emrys (S. Ayr) Shurmer, P.
Boardman, H. Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Silverman, J. (Erdington)
Boltomley, A. G. Hughes, H. D. (W'lverh'pton, W.) Silverman, S. S. (Nelson)
Bowden, H. W. Hynd, H. (Hackney, C.) Simmons, C. J.
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. (L'pl. Exch'ge) Hynd, J. B. (Attercliffe) Skeffington-Lodge, T. C.
Braddock, T. (Mitcham) Irvine, A. J. (Liverpool) Skinnard, F. W.
Bramall, E. A. Irving, W. J. (Tottenham, N.) Smith, Ellis (Stoke)
Brook, D. (Halifax) Jay, D. P. T. Smith, H. N. (Nottingham, S.)
Brooks, T. J. (Rothwell) Johnston, Douglas Smith, S. H. (Hull, S. W.)
Broughton, Dr. A. D. D. Jones, P. Asterley (Hitchin) Snow, J. W.
Brown, T. J. (Ince) Keenan, W. Sorensen, R. W.
Bruce, Maj. D. W. T. Key, Rt. Hon. C. W. Soskice, Rt. Hon. Sir Frank
Butler, H. W. (Hackney, S.) King, E. M. Sparks, J. A.
Carmichael, James Kinghorn, Sqn.-Ldr. E. Swingler, S.
Champion, A. J. Kinley, J. Sylvester, G. O.
Chater, D. Kirkwood, Rt. Hon. D. Symonds, A. L.
Chetwynd, G. R. Lawson, Rt. Hon. J. J. Taylor, H. B. (Mansfield)
Cluse, W. S. Lee, F. (Hulme) Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Cobb, F. A. Lee, Miss J. (Cannock) Thomas, D. E. (Aberdare)
Cocks, F. S. Leonard, W. Thorneycroft, Harry (Clayton)
Callick, P. Leslie, J. R. Thurtle, Ernest
Collindridge, F. Lewis, A. W. J. (Upton) Tiffany, S.
Colman, Miss G. M. Lewis, J. (Bolton) Timmons, J.
Corlett, Dr. J. Lewis, T. (Southampton) Tolley, L.
Cove, W. G. Lipton, Lt.-Col. M. Turner-Samuels, M.
Crawley, A. Logan, D. G. Ungoed-Thomas, L.
Crossman, R. H. S. Lyne, A. W. Vernon, Maj. W. F.
Cullen, Mrs. McAdam, W. Viant, S. P.
Daggar, G. McGhee, H. G. Wallace, G. D. (Chislehurst)
Daines, P. Mack, J. D. Wallace, H. W. (Walthamstow, E.)
Davies, Edward (Burslem) McKay, J. (Wallsend) Warbey, W. N.
Davies, Harold (Leek) Mackay, R. W. G. (Hull, N. W.) Watkins, T. E.
Davies, Haydn (St. Pancras, S. W.) McKinlay, A. S. Watson, W. M.
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) McLeavy, F. Webb, M. (Bradford, C.)
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) MacPherson, Malcolm (Stirling)
Delargy, H. J. Mainwaring, W. H. Wells, P. L. (Faversham)
Diamond, J. Mallalieu, E. L. (Brigg) Wells, W. T. (Walsall)
Dodds, N. N. Mallalieu, J. P. W. (Huddersfield) West, D. G.
Driberg, T. E. N. Mann, Mrs. J. Wheatley, Rt. Hn. John (Edinb'gh, E.)
Dugdale, J. (W. Bromwich) Manning, Mrs. L. (Epping) White, H. (Derbyshire, N. E.)
Dumpleton, C. W. Mathers, Rt. Hon. George Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W.
Evans, Albert (Islington, W.) Mellish, R. J. Wigg, George
Evans, E. (Lowestoft) Mikardo, Ian Wilkins, W. A.
Evans, John (Ogmore) Mitchison, G. R. Willey, F. T. (Sunderland)
Evans, S. N. (Wednesbury) Monslow, W. Williams, J. L. (Kelvingrove)
Ewart, R. Morgan, Dr. H. B. Williams, Ronald (Wigan)
Fairhurst, F. Morley, R. Williams, W. R. (Heston)
Farthing, W. J. Morris, Lt.-Col. H. (Sheffield, C.) Williams, W. T. (Hammersmith, S.)
Fernyhough, E. Mort, D. L. Willis, E.
Fletcher, E. G. M. (Islington, E.) Moyle, A. Woodburn, Rt. Hon. A.
Follick, M. Murray, J. D. Woods, G. S.
Forman, J. C. Nally, W. Wyatt, W.
Fraser, T. (Hamilton) Naylor, T. E. Yates, V. F.
Freeman, Peter (Newport) Neal, H. (Claycross)
Gaitskell, Rt. Hon. H. T. N. Nichol, Mrs. M. E. (Bradford, N.) TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Gallacher, W. Oldfield, W. H. Mr. Joseph Henderson and
Ganley, Mrs. C. S. Paget, R. T. Mr. Richard Adams.
Gilzean, A. Pannell, T. C.
NOES
Agnew, Cmdr. P. G. Hollis, M. C. Poole, O. B. S. (Oswestry)
Amory, D. Heathcoat Hudson, Rt. Hon. R. S. (Southport) Prior-Palmer, Brig. O.
Assheton, Rt. Hon. R. Hulbert, Wing-Cdr. N. J. Raikes, H. V.
Astor, Hon. M. Hutchison, Lt.-Cm. Clark (E'b'rgh, W.) Reed, Sir S. (Aylesbury)
Baldwin, A. E. Hutchison, Col. J. R. (Glasgow, C.) Renton, D.
Barlow, Sir J. Jeffreys, General Sir G. Roberts, P. G. (Ecclesall)
Baxter, A. B. Jennings, R. Robertson, Sir D. (Streatham)
Beamish, Maj. T. V. H. Joynson-Hicks, Hon. L. W. Robinson, Roland (Blackpool, S.)
Bennett, Sir P. Keeling, E. H. Ropner, Col. L.
Birch, Nigel Lambert, Hon. G. Sanderson, Sir F.
Bowen, R. Lancaster, Col. C. G. Scott, Lord W.
Bower, N. Legge-Bourke, Maj. E. A. H. Shephard, S. (Newark)
Boyd-Carpenter, J. A. Lindsay, M. (Solihull) Smiles, Lt.-Col. Sir W.
Bracken, Rt. Hon. Brendan Lipson, D. L. Smithers, Sir W.
Bromley-Davenport, Lt.-Col. W. Lloyd, Maj. Guy (Renfrew, E.) Spence, H. R.
Butcher, H. W. Low, A. R. W. Stoddart-Scott, Col. M.
Byers, Frank MacAndrew, Col. Sir C. Strauss, Henry (English Universities)
Challen, C. McCallum, Maj. D. Stuart, Rt. Hon. J. (Moray)
Channon, H. Macdonald, Sir P. (I. of Wight) Sutcliffe, H.
Clarke, Col. R. S. McFarlane, C. S. Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (P'dd't'n, S.)
Cooper-Key, E. M. Mackeson, Brig. H. R. Thomas, Ivor (Keighley)
Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E. McKie, J. H. (Galloway) Thorneycroft, G. E. P. (Monmouth)
Crowder, Capt. John E. Maclay, Hon. J. S. Thornton-Kemsley, C. N.
Davidson, Viscountess Macmillan, Rt. Hon. Harold (Bromley) Thorp, Brigadier R. A. F.
De la Bère, R. Maitland, Comdr. J. W. Touche, G. C.
Dower, Col. A. V. G. (Penrith) Marlowe, A. A. H. Vane, W. M. F.
Drayson, G. B. Marshall, D. (Bodmin) Wakefield, Sir W. W.
Drewe, C. Maude, J. C. Ward, Hon. G. R.
Dugdale, Maj. Sir T. (Richmond) Mellor, Sir J. Webbe, Sir H. (Abbey)
Duthie, W. S. Morrison, Maj. J. G. (Salisbury) Wheatley, Colonel M. J. (Dorset, E.)
Eden, Rt. Hon. A. Neven-Spence, Sir B. White, Sir D. (Fareham)
Fyfe Rt. Hon. Sir D. P. M. Nicholson, G. Williams, C. (Torquay)
George, Maj. Rt. Hn. G. Lloyd (P'ke) Odey, G. W. Williams, Gerald (Tonbridge)
Glyn, Sir R. Orr-Ewing, I. L. Young, Sir A. S. L. (Partick)
Gomme-Duncan, Col. A. Peake, Rt. Hon. O.
Granville, E. (Eye) Peto, Brig. C. H. M. TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Grimston, R. V. Pickthorn, K. Major Conant and Mr. Studholme.
Head, Brig. A. H. Ponsonby, Col. C. E.
Mr. Blenkinsop

I beg to move, in page 45, line 20, at the end, to insert: and is to be carried out in the area of that coast protection board. This Amendment is designed to meet the case put forward by right hon. and hon. Members opposite on behalf of the drainage authorities, and its effect is that the coast protection board cannot interfere in any way with work outside its area, work maintained by a drainage authority, even if that drainage authority is represented on the board, unless the drainage authority itself consents. In fact, it goes rather further than hon. Members opposite originally asked. In these specific circumstances—work outside the area of the coast protection board—it provides a complete veto on the part of the drainage authority.

Commander Maitland

It is true that this goes some way to meet the point we have tried to make all along, but we are not by any manner of means satisfied that it really fulfils those promises which have so often been given during the course of the Bill that the drainage authorities should be the absolute kings in their own castles. On the other hand, I think it has gone quite a long way to meet the points we have put forward and, as far as that is concerned, we are grateful, although we think it would have been much better if the hon. Gentleman had gone the whole way to meet us.

Amendment agreed to.