HC Deb 21 April 1947 vol 436 cc679-87
Mr. Buchanan

I beg to move, in page 9, line 5, to leave out from "to," to the end of the Subsection, and to insert:

  1. "(a) the spirit of the intention of the founder or donor of the endowment to which the scheme relates and in particular to conditions intended to preserve the memory of any person or class of persons;
  2. (b) the extent to which the original purpose of the endowment is sufficiently provided for by a public service or otherwise; and
  3. (c) the interests of the hospital and specialist services."
The right hon. and learned Member for Hillhead (Mr. J. S. C. Reid) is largely responsible for our putting down this Amendment. It shows plainly the effect which his speeches have had in Committee. When this matter was considered in Committee there was some criticism that we were not making the position sufficiently clear. I trust that this wording makes the position abundantly clear.

Commander Galbraith

We on this side of the House are prepared to accept the Amendment. The words are the same as they were in the original, but the placing and lay-out are different and it makes for greater clarity.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr. Buchanan

I beg to move, in page 9, line 31, to leave out from "and," to the end of the Subsection, and to insert: the provisions of the Tenth Schedule to this Act shall apply to any such inquiries held by the Hospital Endowments Commission with the substitution of the Commission for the Secretary of State in paragraphs 1 and 2, and the omission of paragraphs 6, 7 and 8 of the said Schedule. During the Committee stage, the right hon. and learned Member for Hillhead (Mr. J. S. C. Reid) somewhat severely criticised the wording of this Subsection, as giving the Secretary of State far too great a latitude to modify the provisions of the Tenth Schedule when applying them by regulation to inquiries in connection with endowments. He took the view that we were taking power to do things by regulation which ought to be put into the Bill. The right hon. and learned Gentleman said, "What you may do may be good or bad, but let us know in the Bill, and do not act in this matter, by regulation." I gave a guarantee upstairs that we would look at the matter again. Having examined it, we have come to the conclusion that we can set this out in the statute. The House is now in the position of knowing exactly what is proposed, and this abolishes the need for regulations. In view of that, and with the substitution of the Commission for the Secretary of State, we abolish the expenses Clause. We think that is right, because if the Secretary of State had retained the power of expenses, he could have been criticised here. We have abolished that particular right in connection with expenses.

Commander Galbraith

We feel that this Amendment very fairly represents the feeling of the Committee, and we propose to accept it without further Debate.

Amendment agreed to.

Commander Galbraith

I beg to move, in page 9, line 34, to leave out from "approve," to "any," in line 36.

The House will not need to be reminded that this Subsection deals with the setting up of the Hospital Endowments Commission on which a duty is placed to review all the hospital endowments and, thereafter, submit schemes to the Secretary of State. The part to which we take objection is that which provides that the Secretary of State may by Order approve, with or without modifications, which may include additions or exceptions, any scheme which is submitted to him. We say that the Subsection should read: The Secretary of State may by order approve any scheme submitted to him by the Hospital Endowments Commission or may remit to the Commission to frame and submit a new scheme. It is extraordinary that the Bill should set up an Endowments Commission and give it duties to perform, and that at the end of the day, the Secretary of State should take power in his own hands completely to alter a scheme. The Commission is, after all, a judicial body. When this matter was debated in Committee, the Lord-Advocate confessed that he had a considerable amount of sympathy with the Amendment, and agreed that the Commission was an independent Commission with a sort of judicial authority. We did not feel that the findings of such a Commission should be submitted to the arbitrary decisions of the Secretary of State. It may be that the Amendment is not the best that could be devised to meet our objections, and we might be satisfied if we were informed that, should any major alteration have to be made by the Secretary of State, it would be communicated to this House, so that we would have an opportunity of saying something about it. But for the Secretary of State to take these powers entirely to himself, where a judicial body is concerned, is, we think, highly improper.

Mr. Spence

I beg to second the Amendment.

The Lord Advocate

I am very anxious to meet hon. Members opposite on this point, because I have always felt the force of what they have to say about it. The trouble is that if this Amendment were accepted it would mean that the Secretary of State would have no latitude at all. He would have either to approve or disapprove, and there might quite well be a deadlock; a scheme might go backwards and forwards from the Secretary of State to the Commission and so on. One wants to avoid a deadlock, because similar types of deadlock have been experienced in regard to the Educational Endowment Commission. I have had one or two discussions with the right hon. and learned Member for Hillhead (Mr. J. S. C. Reid) on this matter. He pointed out that under Clause 71 the orders approving schemes of this kind will come before the House, and the point which the right hon. and learned Gentleman took was that it was desirable for the House to know whether, and if so to what extent, any modification had been made in the Endowments Commission's scheme. The Secretary of State is therefore prepared to concede this. If any substantial modification is made which has not been agreed by the Commission, the order, when laid before Parliament, will be accompanied by an explanatory White Paper setting out what the modifications are. If hon. Members opposite would be satisfied with that, it would, I think, be a useful compromise on the matter.

Lord William Scott

Who is to settle whether it is substantial or not?

The Lord Advocate

That, I think, would have to be left to the Secretary of State, otherwise some very trivial matters, such as the dotting of an "i" or the crossing of a "t", which would be technically modifications, might come up. Something must be left to the Secretary of State, but if this proposal commends itself to hon. Members opposite, it seems to be the only possible compromise. Failing that, there is the possibility of a complete deadlock and the tossing about of a scheme between the Secretary of State and the Endowments Commission, with no possibility of coming to an agreement.

Lord William Scott

There is the difficulty about who is to settle whether a modification is substantial or not. I do not see why we should not insist that, substantial or otherwise, it does come before this House, because one presumes that unless it is substantial there is not likely to be any difference between the Secretary of State and the other authorities. It is unlikely that there will be any point between them which cannot be settled unless it is substantial, and I think we need more information on this question before we are asked to forego the Amendment.

Sir W. Darling

I do not think the right hon. and learned Gentleman has done himself justice in his explanation. The Amendment we have proposed really would get over the cumulative deadlocks which he so rightly fears. What does the Clause now give the Secretary of State power to do? It gives him no less than seven or eight options—he may by order approve, he may approve with modifications, he may approve without modifications, he may approve with or without modifications which may include additions, he may include or not include additions or exceptions, and he then, failing in all these, may remit to the Commission to frame and submit a new scheme. Surely if the Secretary of State really means business, and I have the impression that he does, he will not want to entangle himself with all these alternatives. The Amendment makes it quite clear that the Secretary of State may by order approve any scheme submitted to him by the Hospital Endowments Commission, or he may remit to the Commission to frame and submit a new scheme. Surely that double option, that two-way choice, gives him all the latitude he wants, and to embarrass him with other opportunities will merely prolong the intricacies of what may well be a very lengthy process. In his own interests, therefore, the Secretary of State would be well advised to accept the Amendment.

7.15 p.m.

Mr. Niall Macpherson

I am not quite clear from what the right hon. and learned Gentleman has said whether it is his intention to write into the Bill before it goes to another place the undertaking that he has given regarding modifications which may be made.

The Lord Advocate

The answer is "No," but I am impressed by what the hon. Member opposite has said. I agree that it is unlikely that a deadlock will arise unless the divergence between the Secretary of State and the Commission is serious. I think, therefore, I can safely undertake on behalf of the Secretary of State that if there is a divergence of opinion, that divergence will be put in the explanatory White Paper.

Lieut.-Colonel Elliot

Until the concluding words of the Lord Advocate I was hoping that he was going to say he was convinced, and would accept the Amendment. After all, as my hon. Friend the Member for South Edinburgh (Sir W. Darling) said, nobody can say that the powers of the Secretary of State are small and limited. In addition to everything else, as soon as the Hospital Commission disappears—and its time is limited by Statute—the Secretary of State himself becomes the Hospital Commission, and can write any scheme he desires. There is therefore no real danger of continuing deadlock. The case always used is the case of the Man College at Troon, but Scotland was very greatly advantaged by the fact that a man left an enormous sum of money to the setting up of the Man College, which is a very fine building. The purpose of all this is to induce people to take part in the Secretary of State's own scheme, but if the Secretary of State ties a string so very obviously to every sixpence he leaves lying about, and the strings can be seen leading from them to the Secretary of State who can be seen pulling those strings, and pulling the sixpences away.

Mr. Scollan

When you stoop to lift them.

Lieut.-Colonel Elliot

Yes, when you stoop to lift them—the hon. Member for West Renfrew (Mr. Scollan) has had experience of this process, and nobody can say that it is anything other than a very frustrating experience to those who try to take advantage of the sums offered to them. We had an almost identical speech from the Lord Advocate in the committee room upstairs, and he then said he had a considerable amount of sympathy with the point that the right hon. and learned Member for Hillhead (Mr. J. S. C. Reid) made. He thought he might see whether some form of words could be evolved. Indeed he succeeded in a very remarkable feat—his blandishments were so great that he persuaded my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Hillhead to conclude that he was about to accept the principle of the Amendment and put forward some form of words of his own, where upon my right hon. and learned Friend withdrew his Amendment. Until the very last words of the right hon. and learned Gentleman just now, I myself had the illusion that the same process was being repeated. I do not wish to delay the House, but I really think that we ought to divide upon this point.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."

The House divided: Ayes, 234; Noes, 76.

Division No. 125] AYES [6.39 p.m.
Agnew, Cmdr. P. G. Grimston, R. V. Nield, B. (Chester)
Astor, Hon. M. Hare, Hon. J. H. (Woodbridge) Orr-Ewing, I. L.
Beamish, Maj. T. V. H Headlam, Lieut.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir C Peto, Brig. C. H. [...]
Birch, Nigel Hogg, Hon. Q. Pickthorn, K.
Boyd-Carpenter, J. A Hollis, M. C Prior-Palmer, Brig. O
Bullock, Capt M. Hutchison, Lt.-Cm. Clark (E' b'rgh, W.) Ramsay, Maj. S.
Carson, E. Jeffreys, General Sir G. Robinson, Wing-Comdr. Rolano
Clarke, Col. R. S. Kerr, Sir J. Graham Ropner, Col. L.
Conant, Maj. R. J E. Lambert, Hon. G. Scott, Lord W.
Corbett, Lieut.-Col. U. (Ludlow) Langford-Holt, J. Shepherd, W. S. (Bucklow)
Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O E. Legge-Bourke, Maj. [...] Snadden, W. M
Crowder, Capt. John E. Lipson, D. L. Spence, H. R.
Cuthbert, W. N. Lucas, Major Sir J. Stanley, Rt. Hon. O.
Darling, Sir W. Y Lucas-Tooth, Sir H. Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)
Digby, S. W. MacAndrew, Col. Sir C Strauss, H. G. (English Universities)
Dodds-Parker, A. D McCallum, Maj. D. Stuart, Rt. Hon. J (Moray)
Drayson, G. B. Macdonald, Sir P. (I. of Wight) Sutcliffe, H
Duthie, W. S. McKie, J H (Galloway) Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)
Eccles, D. M. Maopherson., Maj. N. (Dumfries) Teeling, Willlam
Elliot, Rt. Hon. Walter Maitland, Comdr. J. W. Thorneycroft, G. E. P. (Monmouth)
Fletcher, W. (Bury) Manningham-Buller, R. E Thornton-Kemsley, C N
Foster, J. G. (Northwich) Marlowe, A. A. H. Walker-Smith, D
Fyfe, Rt. Hon. Sir D. P. M Marshall, D (Bodmin) Ward, Hon G. R.
Gage, C. Mellor, Sir J. Wheatley, Colonel M. J
Galbraith, Cmdr. T. D. Moore, Lt.-Col. Sir T. Williams, Gerald (Tonbridge)
Gates, Maj. E. E. Morrison, Maj. J. G. (Salisbury)
Gomme-Duncan, Col. A Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Grant, Lady Neven-Spence, Sir B. Mr. Drewe and Mr. Studholme.
NOES
Adams, Richard (Batham) Blackburn, A. R. Comyns, D. L
Adams, W. T. (Hammersmith, South) Boardman, H. Cook, T. F.
Alpass, J. H Bowen, R. Cooper, Wing-Comdr G
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Bowles, F. G. (Nuneaton) Corlett, Dr. J.
Attewell, H. C. Braddock, Mrs. E. M. (L'pl. Exch'ge) Corvedale, Viscount
Austin, H. Lewis Braddock, T. (Mitcham) Crossman, R. H S
Awbery, S. S Brook, D. (Halifax) Dagger, G
Ayles, W. H. Brooks, T. J. (Rothwell) Daines, P.
Ayrton Gould, Mrs. B Brown, George (Belper) Davies, Edward (Burslem)
Bacon, Miss A Bruce, Maj. D. W T Davies, Harold (Leek)
Baird. J Buchanan, G. Deer, G.
Balfour, A Butler, H. W. (Hackney, S.) Diamond, J
Barstow, P. G Chamberlain, R. A. Dobbie, W.
Barton, C. Champion, A J Donovan, T.
Battley, J. R. Chater, D. Driberg, T. E. N.
Bechervaise, A. E. Chetwynd, G R Dumpleton, C. W.
Benson, G Cocks, F S Edwards, N. (Caerphilly)
Berry, H. Coldrick, W Evans, E. (Lowestoft)
Beswick, F. Collindridge, F Field, Capt. W J.
Bing, G. H C. Collins, V J Follick, M.
Binns, J. Colman, Miss G. M Foot M. M
Gallacher, W. MacMillan, M. K. (Western Isles) Smith, S. H. (Hull, S.W.)
Ganley, Mrs. C. S. Macpherson, T. (Romford) Snow, Capt. J. W.
Gordon-Walker, P. C. Manning, Mrs. L. (Epping) Soskice, Maj. Sir F.
Granville, E. (Eye) Messer, F. Sparks, J. A.
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Wakefield) Middleton, Mrs. L Stamford, W.
Grenfell, D. R. Mikardo, Ian Steele, T.
Grierson, E. Millington, Wing-Comdr. E. R. Stephen, C.
Griffiths, D. (Rother Valley) Mitchison, G. R. Stewart, Michael (Fulham, E.)
Griffiths, Rt. Hon. J. (Llanelly) Montague, F. Stross, Dr. B.
Guest, Dr. L. Haden Moody, A. S. Summerskill, Dr. Edith
Gunter, R. J. Moyle, A. Swingler, S.
Guy, W. H. Nally, W. Sylvester, G. O.
Hale, Leslie Naylor, T. E. Taylor, H. B. (Mansfield)
Hamilton, Lieut.-Col, R. Neal, H. (Claycross) Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Hardy, E. A. Nichol, Mrs. M. E. (Bradford, N.) Taylor, Dr. S. (Barnet)
Harrison, J. Nicholls, H. R. (Stratford) Thomas, D. E. (Aberdare)
Hastings, Dr. Somerville O'Brien, T. Thomas, I. O. (Wrekin)
Haworth, J. Paget, R. T, Thomson, Rt. Hn. G. R. (Ed'b'gh, E.)
Herbison, Miss M. Palmer, A. M. F. Thorneycroft, Harry (Clayton)
Hewitson, Capt. M. Parker, J. Thurtle, E.
Hobson, C. R. Parkin, B. T. Tiffany, S.
Holman, P. Paton, Mrs. F. (Rushcliffe) Titterington, M. F.
Holmes, H. E. (Hemsworth) Paton, J. (Norwich) Tolley, L.
Hoy, J. Pearson, A. Tomlinson, Rt. Hon. G.
Hubbard, T. Peart, Capt. T. F. Turner-Samuels, M.
Hudson, J. H. (Ealing, W.) Piratin, P. Ungoed-Thomas, L.
Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Porter, G. (Leeds) Usborne, Henry
Hutchinson, H. L. (Rusholme) Proctor, W. T. Vernon, Maj. W. F.
Hynd, H. (Hackney, C.) Pursey, Cmdr. H Viant, S. P.
Irving, W. J. Randall, H. E Walkden, E.
Jay, D. P. T. Ranger, J. Walker, G. H.
Jeger, G. (Winchester) Rankin, J. Wallace, G. D. (Chislehurst)
Jones, D. T. (Hartlepools) Reeves, J. Wallace, H. W. (Walthamstow, E.)
Jones, Elwyn (Plaistow) Reid, T. (Swindon) Wells, P. L. (Faversham)
Jones, J. H. (Bolton) Richards, R. Wells, W. T (Walsall)
Jones, P. Asterley (Hitchin) Robens, A Westwood, Rt. Hon. J.
Keenan, W. Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvonshire) White, C. F. (Derbyshire, W.)
King, E. M. Rogers, G. H. R. White, H. (Derbyshire, N.E.)
Kinley, J. Ross, William (Kilmarnock) Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W.
Lee, Miss J. (Cannock) Sargood, R. Wigg, Col. G. E.
Leonard, W. Scollan, T. Wilkes, L.
Leslie, J. R. Scott-Elliot, W. Wilkins, W. A.
Levy, B. W. Shackleton, E. A. A. Williams, D. J. (Neath)
Lewis, A. W. J. (Upton) Sharp, Granville Williams, J. L. (Kelvingrove)
Lewis, J. (Bolton) Shawcross, Rt. Hn. Sir H. (St. Helens) Williams, W. R. (Heston)
Lipton, Lt.-Col. M. Shurmer, P. Williamson, T.
Longden, F. Silverman, J. (Erdington) Willis, E.
McAdam, W. Simmons, C. J. Wills, Mrs. E. A
McAllister, G. Skeffington, A. M. Wyatt, W
McGhee, H. G. Skeffington-Lodge, T. C Yates, V. F.
Mack, J. D. Skinnard, F. W. Younger, Hon. Kenneth
McKay, J. (Wallsend) Smith, C. (Colchester)
Mackay, R. W. G. (Hull, N.W.) Smith, Ellis (Stoke) TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
McLeavy, F Smith. H. N. (Nottingham, S.) Mr. Hannan and
Mr. Joseph Henderson.
Division No. 126.] AYES [7.19 p.m.
Adams, Richard (Balham) Hall, W. G. Reeves, J.
Adams, W. T. (Hammersmith, South) Hamilton, Lieut.-Col. R Reid, T. (Swindon)
Alpass, J. H. Hardy, E. A. Richards, R.
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Harrison, J. Robens, A.
Attewell, H. C. Hastings, Dr. Somerville Roberts, Goronwy (Caernarvonshire)
Austin, H. Lewis Haworth, J. Rogers, G. H. R.
Awbery, S. S. Henderson, Joseph (Ardwick) Ross, Willlam (Kilmarnock)
Ayles, W H. Herbison, Miss M. Sargood, R.
Ayrton Gould, Mrs. B Hewitson, Capt. M. Scollan, T.
Bacon, Miss A Hobson, C. R. Scott-Elliot, W.
Baird, J. Holman, P. Shackleton, E. A A.
Balfour, A. Holmes, H. E. (Hemsworth) Sharp, Granville
Barstow, P. G House, G. Shawcross, C. N. (Widnes)
Barton, C. Hoy, J. Shawcross, Rt. Hn. Sir H. (St. Helens)
Battley, J. R Hubbard, T. Shurmer, P.
Bechervaise, A. E Hudson, J. H. (Ealing, W.) Silverman, J. (Erdington)
Benson, G. Hughes, Hector (Aberdeen, N.) Simmons, C. J.
Berry, H. Hutchinson, H. L. (Rusholme) Skeffington-Lodge, T. C
Beswick, F. Hynd, H. (Hackney, C.) Skinnard, F. W.
Bevan, Rt. Hon. A. (Ebbw Vale) Irving, W. J Smith, C. (Colchester).
Bing, G. H. C. Jay, D. P. T. Smith, Ellis (Stoke)
Binns, J. Jager, G. (Winchester) Smith, H. N. (Nottingham, S.)
Blackburn, A. [...] Jones, D. T. (Hartlepools) Smith, S. H. (Hull, S.W.)
Boardman, H. Jones, Elwyn (Plaistow) Snow, Capt. J. W.
Bowen, R. Jones, J. H. (Bolton) Solley, L. J
Bowles, F. G. (Nuneaton) Jones, P. Asterley (Hitchin) Soskice, Maj. Sir F.
Braddock, Mrs. E. M. (L'pl, Exch'ge) Keenan, W Sparks, J. A.
Braddock, T. (Mitcham) King, E. M. Stamford, W
Brook, D. (Halifax) Kinley, J. Steele, T
Brooks, T. J. (Rothwell) Lee, F. (Hulme) Stephen, C.
Brown, George (Belper) Lee, Miss J (Cannock) Stewart, Michael (Fulham, E.)
Bruce, Maj. D. W. T Leonard, W Stross, Dr. B.
Buchanan, G. Leslie, J. R. Summerskill, Dr. Edith
Burden, T. W. Levy, B. W. Swingler, S.
Butler, H. W. (Hackney, S.) Lewis, A. W. J. (Upton) Sylvester, G. O.
Chamberlain, R. A. Lewis, J. (Bolton) Taylor, H. B. (Mansfield)
Champion, A. J. Lipton, Lt:-Col. M. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Chater, D. Longden, F. Taylor, Dr. S. (Barnet)
Chetwynd, G R McAdam, W. Thomas, D. E. (Aberdare)
Cobb, F. A. McAllister, G. Thomas, I. O. (Wrekin)
Cocks, F. S. McGhee, H. G Thomson, Rt. Hn. G. R. (Ed'b'gh, E.)
Coldrick, W. Mack, J. D. Thorneycroft, Harry (Clayton)
Collins, V. J. McKay, J. (Wellsend) Thurtle, E.
Colman, Miss G. M Mackay, R. W. G. (Hull, N.W.) Tiffany, S.
Comyns, Dr. L. McLeavy, F Titterington, M. F.
Cook, T. F. MacMillan. M. K. (Wester[...] Isles) Tolley, L.
Cooper, Wing-Comdr. G. Macpherson, T. (Romford) Tomlinson, Rt. Hon. G
Corlett, Dr. J. MaHallen, J. P. W. Turner-Samuels, M.
Corvedale, Viscount Manning, Mrs. L. ([...]pping) Ungoed-Thomas, L.
Cove, W. G. Messer, F. Usborne, Henry
Grossman, R. H. S Middleton, Mrs. L. Vernon, Maj. W. F.
Daggar, G. Mikardo, Ian Viant, S. P.
Daines, P Millington, Wing-Comdr. E. R. Walkden, E.
Davies, Edward (Burslem) Mitchison, G. R. Walker, G. H.
Davies, Harold (Leek) Moody, A S. Wallace, G. D. (Chislehurst)
Deer, G. Morris, P. (Swansea. W) Wallace, H. W. (Walthamstow, E.)
Diamond, J Moyle, A. Wells, P. L. (Faversham)
Debbie, W. Nally, W. Wells, W. T. (Walsall)
Dodds, N. N. Naylor, T. E. Westwood, Rt. Hon J.
Donovan, T. Neal, H. (Claycross) White, C. F. (Derbyshire, W.)
Driberg, T. E. N. Nichol, Mrs. M. E. (Bradford, N.) White, H. (Derbyshire, N.E.)
Edwards, N. (Caerphilly) Nicholls, H. R. (Stratford) Whiteley, Rt. Hon. W.
Edwards, W. J. (Whitechapel) Oldfield, W. H. Wigg, Col. G. E.
Evans, E. (Lowestoft) Oliver, G. H. Wilcock, Group-Capt. C. A. B.
Fairhurst, F. Paget, R. T. Wilkes, L.
Fletcher, E C M. (Islington, E.) Palmer, A. M. F. Wilkins, W. A.
Follick, M. Pargiter, G. A.
Foot, M. M. Willey, F. T. (Sunderland)
Ganley, Mrs. C. S. Parker, J. Williams, J. L. (Kelvingrove)
George, Lady M. Lloyd (Anglesey) Parkin, B. T. Williams, W. R. (Heston)
Granville, E. (Eye) Paton, Mrs. F. (Rushcliffe) Williamson, T.
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Wakefield) Paton, J. (Norwich) Willis, E.
Grenfell, D. R. Pearson, A. Wills, Mrs. E. A
Grierson, E. Pearl, Capt T. F. Wyatt, W.
Griffiths, D. (Rother Valley) Porter, G. (Leeds) Yates, V. F.
Griffiths, Rt. Hon. J. (Llanelly) Proctor, W. T. Younger, Hon. Kenneth
Guest, Dr. L. Haden Pursey, Cmdr. H
Gunter, R. J. Randall, H. E TELLERS FOR THE AYES:
Guy, W. H Ranger, J Mr. Collindridge and
Hale, Leslie Rankin, J Mr. Hannan.
NOES.
Agnew, Cmdr. P. G Hare, Hon. J. H. (Woodbridge) Neven-Spence, Sir B
Astor, Hon. M. Headlam, Lieut.-Col. Rt. Hon Sir C Nield, B. (Chester)
Beamish, Maj. T. V. H Hogg, Hon. Q. Peto, Brig. C. H. M.
Boyd-Carpenter, J. A. Hollis, M. C Poole, O B. S. (Oswestry)
Carson, E. Hudson, Rt. Hon. R. S. (Southport) Prior-Palmer, Brig. O.
Clarke, Col. R. S. Hutchison, Lt.-Cm. Clark (E' b'rgh, W.) Ramsay, Maj. S,
Corbett, Lieut.-Col. U. (Ludlow) Jeffreys, General Sir G Robinson, Wing-Comdr. Roland
Crosthwaite-Eyre, Col. O. E. Lambert, Hon. G. Ropner, Col. L.
Crowder, Capt. John E Langford-Holt, J. Scott, Lord W.
Cuthbert, W. N. Lipson, D. L. Shepherd, W. S. (Bucklow)
Darling, Sir W. Y. Lucas, Major Sir J, Snadden, W. M.
Digby, S. W. Lucas-Tooth, Sir H. Spence, H. R.
Dodds-Parker, A. D Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. O Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)
Drayson, G. B. McCallum, Maj. D. Stuart, Rt. Hon. J. (Mcray)
Duthie, W. S. Macdonald, Sir P. (I. of Wight) Studholme, H. G
Eccles, D. M. McKie, J. H. (Galloway) Sutcliffe, H.
Elliot, Rt. Hon. Walter Maclay, Hon. J. S. Teeling, William
Fletcher, W. (Bury) Macpherson, Maj. N. (Dumfries) Thorneycroft, G. E. P. (Monmouth)
Foster, J. G. (Northwich) Maitland, Comdr. J. W. Thornton-Kemsley, C. N.
Fyfe, Rt. Hon. Sir D. P. M. Manningham-Buller, R. E Thorp, Lt.-Col. R. A. F
Gage, C. Marlowe, A. A. H. Walker-Smith, D.
Galbraith, Cmdr. T. D Marshall, D (Bodmin) Ward, Hon. G. R.
Gates, Maj. E. E. Mellor, Sir J. Wheatley, Colonel M. J.
Gomme-Duncan, Col. A Moore, Lt.-Col. Sir T. Williams, Gerald (Tonbridge)
Grant, Lady Morrison, Maj. J. G. (Salisbury)
Grimston, R. V Mott-Radclyffe, Maj. C.E TELLERS FOR THE NOES:
Mr. Drewe and Major Conant.