Commons Sitting of 13 March 1941

Preamble
The House being met, the Clerk at the Table informed the House of the unavoidable absence through indisposition of Mr. SPEAKER from this Day's Sitting. Whereupon Sir DENNIS HERBERT, the CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS, proceeded to the Table and, after Prayers, took the Chair as DEPUTY-SPEAKER, pursuant to the Standing Order.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.

  FACTORIES (CHIEF INSPECTOR'S REPORT).
  Mr. Ellis Smithasked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been directed to pages 3, 4 and 5 of the Annual Report of the Chief Inspector of Factories; and what steps are being taken to deal with the problems dealt with in those pages?
  The Minister of Labour (Mr. Ernest Bevin): In these pages the Chief Inspector expresses the view that the increase in non-fatal accidents in 1939 as compared with 1938 was not greater than the increase in man-hours worked, and points out that an increase in accidents in war time must be expected owing to various causes, At the same time I wish to emphasise that, apart from personal loss and suffering, avoidable accidents are a bonus to the enemy by way of lost time and disorganisation of work, and I have, with the assistance of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, instituted a special Accident Prevention Campaign covering a large number of factories engaged on war production.
  Mr. Smithasked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been directed to page 7 of the Annual Report of the Chief Inspector of Factories, and, in particular, to the statement that transport difficulties need the serious attention of all concerned as vital for the preservation of the health and well-being of the workpeople; and what action has
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  been taken, or it is intended to take, in order to bring about much-needed improvements?
  Mr. Bevin:The problems arising out of transport facilities for workpeople are receiving constant attention. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Transport, in November last, asked the Regional Transport Commissioners to take immediate steps to set up local consultative committees at places where there are difficulties in regard to the transport of workpeople, and he suggested that the Area Boards, the Supply Departments, the Factory Inspectorate, the welfare department of the Ministry of Labour, the railway and road transport undertakings, the employers and the trade unions should all be represented on these committees. A number have been established and by staggering hours of work and by provision of hostels and in other ways these committees have been able to resolve many problems. If the hon. Member will specify any particular cases he has in mind, my right hon. Friend will gladly look into them.
  Mr. Mainwaring: Are any steps being taken to remove restrictions embodied in the Road Traffic Act, which permits a large number of vehicles going to certain specified destinations to run half empty and to refuse to take up workmen who are waiting on the roadside for a conveyance?
  Mr. Bevin: I suggest to my hon. Friend that he should address that question to the Minister of Transport, who is responsible for the administration of the Road Traffic Act.
  Mr. R. J. Taylor: Is my right hon. Friend aware that during recent severe weather in the North a considerable amount of work was lost because men were refused permission to enter works through being late owing to the snow?
  Mr. Bevin:If information is given to me of managements acting in that way, I will take the matter up immediately. My hon. Friend will appreciate that it is normally a dangerous thing to relax discipline about starting time, or the whole thing may get demoralised. Where exceptional circumstances arise I should have thought that managements would act with common sense.

  NATIONAL WAR EFFORT.

    DISABLED WORKERS (TRAINING AND REHABILITATION).
    Mr. E. Smithasked the Minister of Labour whether he has consulted the whole of the Ministries involved on the need for the training of disabled men and rehabilitation courses for men and women affected while serving in the Armed Forces, industry or in any other way; what steps have been taken to meet the difficulties over public assistance payments if a person desires to receive training in order to cope with the big problems that will arise in future; is he satisfied with the Leatherhead and St. Loyes training centres; is it intended to extend the training in the near future; and can a statement be made on this matter?
    Mr. Bevin: This matter is receiving the active consideration of my right hon. Friends the Minister of Health and the Minister of Pensions and myself, and I am not at present in a position to make a statement.
    Mr. Mainwaring:Is the Minister satisfied that when men have received training every effort is made to place them in employment? Is he aware that at Treforest, in South Wales, for example, there are large numbers of trainees who have been idle for many weeks, even months, awaiting replacement in industry?
    Mr. Bevin: This question is about rehabilitation in trades.
    Mr. David Adams: Is the Minister aware that, although there are facilities at the two training centres mentioned, there is no organisation to advise people who require rehabilitation of their existence?
    Mr. Bevin: I have already explained that this rehabilitation problem has received the consideration of the Government, but the Forces, the A.R.P. and industrial workers are all involved, and it is essential that the Departments referred to should work out a properly co-ordinated scheme in order that the matter might be handled properly. We are now engaged on that work.

    WAGES.
    Mr. Mainwaringasked the Minister of Labour whether he is aware that there is a large number of workers, heads of
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    families, doing essential war work in various branches of industry and for wages lower than the assessment of needs laid down by the Ministry of Labour for men undergoing courses of training and instruction; and whether he contemplates taking any steps to remedy the position?
    Mr. Bevin: I do not understand the basis on which my hon. Friend makes this comparison.
    Mr. Mainwaring: Does the Minister consider that is. 2d. per hour is a reasonable wage in these days of rising costs of living for semi-skilled men such as were referred to in the previous Question who have been trained by the Ministry?
    Mr. Bevin:Unless my hon. Friend can give me information where those wages exist and on what the men are engaged, it is impossible for me to answer,
    Mr. Mainwaring: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider cases I may send forward?
    Mr. Bevin: I will.
    Sir Irving Albery: Have the Government any comprehensive policy for dealing with the remuneration of labour during war-time?
    Mr. Bevin: That does not arise out of this Question.

    TRAINING, NORTHERN IRELAND.
    Dr. Littleasked the Minister of Labour whether he will make arrangements for many more Northern Ireland men to be admitted to Government training centres in Great Britain with a view to their better equipment for various kinds of war work?
    Mr. Bevin:The number of places open to Northern Ireland men in Government training centres in Great Britain was largely increased last December, and is now fully sufficient to accommodate the men coming forward for training.
    Dr. Little: As the matter is urgent, will my right hon. Friend look into this matter again, as we have lots of capable men in Ulster ready for training, and I hope that he will give them a chance of becoming more efficient in war work?

    FACTORIES (HEALTH AND EFFICIENCY).
    Mr. Rhys Daviesasked the Minister of Labour whether recordings are taken

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    of illness, fatigue and injuries which may be caused by speeding up of factory and other workers; and whether employers are informed of any evil consequences arising therefrom?
    Mr. Bevin: Factory employers are encouraged, as a part of their arrangements for proper supervision in the interests of health and efficiency, to keep records of sickness and absenteeism which may afford indications of excessive fatigue or of something else amiss in the factory or in a particular department of it. It would not usually be possible without close inquiry at the particular factory, which would primarily be a matter for the management, to ascertain how far any evident fatigue or ill-health or accidents are attributable to speed of working as distinct from long hours and other factors, but the importance of optimum rates of work from the point of view both of efficiency and of accident prevention is stressed in the Industrial Health Research Board Report on Industrial Health in War, which received wide publicity, as well as in other publications.
    Mr. Davies: While thanking my right hon. Friend for that answer, may I ask him to bear in mind that there are some National Health Insurance approved societies which cover the whole of the workers in a given factory, and is it not possible to get some reflection of what is happening from their statistics?
    Mr. Bevin: I am not aware of any approved society that covers all the workers in a particular works. My experience in the administration of approved society work is that the people working in a particular works may be in insurance companies, friendly societies and trade unions. I have never known one society to cover everybody.
    Mr. Davies: I will give a case to my right hon. Friend.

    WOMAN-POWER.
    Sir Patrick Hannonasked the Minister of Labour whether, following upon the appeal which he has made for the immediate registration of 100,000 women for employment in munitions production, he will state the organised methods which are being set in motion in order to bring this appeal to the homes of workers and
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    to enlist the advocacy and co-operative effort of employers, trades union leaders and representatives of various societies dealing with the interests of women whose influence can be employed in this great national work?
    Mr. Simmondsasked the Minister of Labour the number of women for whom it is estimated there are immediate vacancies in war industries; and by what date he proposes these vacancies shall be filled?
    Mr. Bevin: I propose to make a general statement on this subject at an early date.
    Sir P. Hannon: Does my right hon. Friend realise that when an appeal of this kind is made by Ministers or their representatives it is important that some organisation should be created to follow it up and put into practical shape the substance of the appeal?
    Mr. Bevin: The appeal was made to get an immediate response to fill certain vacancies. It is not in substitution of the more comprehensive scheme in which the two will be dovetailed together in the announcement I am to make.
    Mr. Simmonds: Is it not a fact that there are hundreds of thousands of machines engaged on war work in the day-time which, owing to the lack of female labour, are idle at night; and does not my right hon. Friend think that some more advantageous steps should be taken to get these women into industry even though he cannot announce his full plans in the immediate future?
    Mr. Bevin: The problem of night work and the problem of instructing women are two separate problems. I am afraid that some employers imagine that to order women with domestic responsibilities into factories at night is an easy problem. I can assure the House that to handle this women's problem is a very delicate matter.
    Mr. Simmonds: Is it not a fact that although women with domestic responsibilities may not find it easy to work at night, there are hundreds of thousands of women without domestic responsibilities who, if they were correctly approached, would go into industry?
    Mr. James Griffiths: Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that it is essential in

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    the interests of national unity to understand that this appeal is not to working women only but to other women who are now wasting their time?
    Mr. Bevin: The proposed registration will be universal.

    TRANSFERRED WORKERS (HOUSING CONDITIONS).
    Mr. J. Griffithsasked the Minister of Labour what steps are being taken to ensure that workmen transferred to new areas for work are suitably housed; and whether he is aware that some of those recently transferred have had to return because no suitable arrangements were made?
    Mr. Bevin:My Department and the Ministry of Health have this matter constantly under review and work in close co-operation with the local authorities, who are being assisted in their task of finding accommodation by the grant of powers of compulsory billeting, where necessary, and of priority for approved housing schemes. Hostels are also being built by the Government. There have, 1 understand, been individual cases of transferred workers quoting dissatisfaction with the accommodation offered to them as a reason for returning home, but I am not aware that these have been numerous. I shall be glad if my hon. Friend will let me know of any particular cases which have come to his knowledge, so that I can have them looked into.

    RETAIL SHOPS (LABOUR).
    Mr. Robertsonasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has considered the serious wastage of labour involved in keeping open butchers', and other retail shops, which have little to sell; and whether he will consider reducing the days of opening to three per week, or, alternatively, compulsorily closing redundant shops, with a view to employing the thousands of men and women, so released, on essential war work?
    The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Herbert Morrison): I have consulted my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour, and I do not think that either of these suggestions would provide the best method of obtaining the release of labour from the retail trades. My right hon. Friend has announced his
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    intention of introducing a system of compulsory registration which will enable any labour that can be released from these trades to be transferred, as it is required, to more essential work.
    Mr. Robertson: Is my right hon. Friend aware that the majority of butchers in this country have a buying permit for £40 or less of meat a week and that these able-bodied men are doing one day's work instead of a week's work?
    Mr. Morrison: My hon. Friend will realise that, as Home Secretary, my interest in the matter is in relation to the hours at which shops can open or close. I hardly think that the shutting-down of shops on certain days of the week would solve the problem he has in mind, which is best dealt with as part of the general problem through the machinery of the Ministry of Labour.
    Mr. Robertson: Is my right hon. Friend aware that I put this Question down to the Minister of Labour because the most important part of the Question dealt with wastage, and that, without my consent, it was transferred to my right hon. Friend?
    Mr. Morrison: Then we are both unlucky.
    Mr. Rhys Davies: If the right hon. Gentleman is considering this problem of part-time opening of butchers' shops, will he bear in mind the trade-union complications which will arise?
    Mr. Morrison: I recognise that that is one of the problems that will arise.

  ARMED FORCES AND CIVILIANS (PENSIONS AND GRANTS).
  Mr. R. J. Taylorasked the Minister of Pensions whether arrangements will now be made for a soldier's wife, who was receiving assistance from the War Service Grants Committee, to continue to receive the same assistance after the death of her husband?
  The Minister of Pensions (Sir Walter Womersley):I am glad to inform the hon. Member that arrangements are already in force for the continuation of a war service grant to a wife during the period of 13 weeks for which the Service Department pays allotment and family allowance after her husband's death.
  Mr. Taylor: Will the right hon. Gentleman further consider this matter having regard to pre-war commitments which have been entered into by families which would justify these allowances being continued until those commitments have been met?
  Sir W. Womersley: It is because of my knowledge of the commitments of these widows that I put forward the proposition that these allowances should be continued for 13 weeks, in order to give them an opportunity of readjusting their circumstances. I am always prepared to consider any proposition which is put forward, but I cannot hold out any hope of dealing with the matter in the way the hon. Member suggests.
  Mr. Taylor: But does the Minister say that the commitments cease at the end of 13 weeks?
  Mr. Cocksasked the Minister of Pensions whether in view of the increased cost of living he is considering increasing the pensions of 100 per cent. disabled ex-Service men disabled in the last war who are entirely dependent on their pensions?
  Sir W. Womersley: No, Sir; the ex-Service men in question are in receipt of pensions based on a cost-of-living figure which is actually higher than that of today. In any case it would not be practicable to single out one cross section of disability pensioners for special consideration.
  Mr. Beverley Baxterasked the Minister of Pensions whether he is now prepared to reconsider the present system of refusing military pensions to dependants of men in the Fighting Services killed while on leave whether from enemy action or any cause not arising from gross carelessness?
  Sir. W. Womersley: Cases of serving men on leave and killed by enemy action are already dealt with either under the Service Warrants or the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme as may be appropriate to their case. As regards accidents, there are borderline cases which present difficulty, and I am considering the whole question of injuries sustained when not on duty. I must point out, however, that the position of a soldier when he is absent from his unit on leave
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  and his movements are under his own control does not differ from that of a civilian, and an accident sustained in circumstances quite unconnected with military service cannot be regarded as attributable to such service; consequently, I have no power to award compensation for the results thereof under the Royal Warrant.
  Mr. Baxter: Is the right hon. Gentleman not aware that this attitude is causing the greatest distress in the country? Is he not aware—as I am sure he is—that in the last war the dependants of all soldiers who went to France and were killed there were given pensions, regardless of how the soldiers met their death; and now that the battlefield is transferred to this country, does not that suggest to him that the same conditions should apply here? Further, will the right hon. Gentleman consult the heads of the Service Departments, who, I can assure him, take a very different view from his?
  Sir W. Womersley: My hon. Friend is not quite correct in saying that the dependants of a soldier who happened to be serving abroad in the last war and met with a fatal accident in any circumstances whatever received compensation. Certain matters, such as negligence, were taken into account.
  Mr. Ellis Smith: Well, well.
  Sir W. Womersley: It is all very well to say "Well, well," but we want to make the position clear. I have already informed my hon. Friend that I am giving the most careful consideration to these borderline cases, which have caused difficulty, there is no question about it. On the other matter, I am prepared to consult the heads of the Service Departments, although from the information which I have received I am not aware that they are at all unanimous in the view which he expressed.
  Mr. Baxter: Does my right hon. Friend consider the case of a soldier returning from leave and killed by a train a borderline case?
  Mr. Magnay: Before the right hon. Gentleman replies, will he further consider the case which I put before him of a man in Liverpool who, while returning to his camp, was killed in the black-out and in the vicinity of the camp? Is that a borderline case?
  Sir W. Womersley: Of course, those are borderline cases, and they are the kind of cases I am considering.
  Flight-Lieutenant Ralph Etherton: Will my right hon. Friend give special attention to the case of Regulars, because Regulars entered the Services many years ago, in some cases on the basis that they would receive this pension by way of deferred pay, and it is particularly hard in the case of Regulars?
  Sir W. Womersley: I am quite prepared to consider the cases of both Regulars and those who joined for the duration of the war.
  Mr. Woolley: If my right hon. Friend makes any decision, will it be applied retrospectively?
  Sir W. Womersley: I had better not give an answer to that question without consideration.
  Sir Percy Harris: Will my right hon. Friend consult the Pensions Advisory Committee on the subject?
  Mr. J Griffithsasked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware of the hardship caused to parents whose sons are killed by enemy action on account of the failure of the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme to provide a payment to cover funeral expenses; and whether he will reconsider this question with a view to providing for such payment?
  Sir W. Womersley:Under the improvements in the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme announced by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 18th December last, a payment of £7 10s. towards funeral expenses may now be made to any relative or friend responsible for funeral arrangements in the case of a Civil Defence volunteer who is killed on duty. In the case of any gainfully-occupied person killed by enemy action, the same grant towards funeral expenses may now be made to a widow or to any wholly dependent relative, including a parent, who has been regularly maintained by the deceased in his or her home. These provisions apply to privately arranged funerals. Arrangements have also been made by the Ministry of Health whereby in cases of deaths resulting from "war injuries" or "war service injuries" State funerals can be arranged by the local authority without any charge on the relatives.
  Mr. Griffiths: Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that in cases—of which I have sent him instances—in which parents have not been granted a pension and have been refused any allowance towards the expense of the funeral they naturally contrast this treatment with the fact that if the man had been killed at work, there would have been at least a grant towards the funeral expenses; and since this matter is causing some dissatisfaction, will he reconsider his decision?
  Sir H. Womersley: I am quite prepared to consider any proposition put forward, but I would like the hon. Member to submit his cases to me quickly, because I want to get the question of a revised scheme cleared up as soon as possible.
  Mr. Griffiths: I have sent the cases on to the right hon. Gentleman.
  Mr. Griffithsasked the Minister of Pensions what standard is used to adjudge whether parents of those killed by enemy action are entitled to a pension under the Royal Warrant and the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme?
  Sir W. Womersley:Under both the Royal Warrant and the Personal Injuries (Civilians) Scheme, I am required, in determining need, to have regard to the extent of support given to the parent by the deceased person, and consequently no one rigid standard is possible or desirable.
  Mr. Griffiths:When parents receive from the right hon. Gentleman a letter indicating that no immediate pension will be granted, they are told that should their circumstances change, they can apply again. May I ask what change in circumstances does entitle them to make a renewed application? Will he give some indication which will help parents in deciding whether they should renew their application?
  Sir W. Womersley: Usually it is stated on the notice that they can apply again if their circumstances change, in accordance with the Regulation laid down. If I can make it any clearer, I shall be pleased to do so, because J want it to be fully understood that they have established their right to a pension as and when the circumstances allow of it.
  Mr. Griffiths: Would there be any objection to indicating to Members of this

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  House the standard by which the right hon. Gentleman judges these further circumstances?
  Sir W. Womersley: I am going to ask the House to be rather generous in this matter. I feel that I can do more justice in these cases by being given a reasonable amount of discretion, and I do not want to lay down an exact standard. I think that will be in the interests of the people concerned.
  Mr. Mander: Does the right hon. Gentleman intend to consult his Advisory Committee on any of these questions?
  Sir W. Womersley: When I have a meeting of the Advisory Committee, I shall consult them on this and many other things.
  Mr. Mander: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have been a member for a considerable time and that the committee has never met once?
  Sir W. Womersley: The hon. Member may be aware that his predecessor attended 15 meetings of this committee, at great inconvenience to himself, and that I promised the committee not to call them together again until it was necessary to do so.

  CIVIL DEFENCE.

    RESPIRATOR DRILL.
    Mr. Cocksasked the Home Secretary whether he will arrange for a five minutes gas mask drill, to be given through the British Broadcasting Corporation, at a certain time each week, say, immediately before or after the 9 0'clock news, so that, at a given signal, every listener-in throughout the country should be asked to put on his respirator and follow the instructions given over the wireless?
    Mr. H. Morrison: I am considering my hon. Friend's proposal.
    Mr. A. Edwards: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the example of the Middlesbrough Chief Constable, who has his men work in their gas masks for a period every day?
    Mr. Morrison: Yes, Sir, it will be taken into account.
    Mr. Baxter: If this suggestion is tried, might it not be advisable to try it just before the Priestley broadcast?

    INTERNEES.
    Mr. David Adamsasked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that he advised the hon. Member for Consett, on 10th September, 1940, that Felix Mayer, interned in the Isle of Man, was released on 13th August, 1940, and that on 8th January, 1941, the Home Secretary again wrote to the hon. Member stating that Felix Mayer would now be released; and, as he is still interned, will he take steps to ensure Mayer's promised release?
    Mr. H. Morrison: I regret that there has been a confusion between two men of similar names. My hon. Friend the Member for Consett (Mr. David Adams) in earlier correspondence described the internee as Felix Meyer (with an e) and the replies of 10th September and 8th January referred to a man of that name. Further inquiries were made when my hon. Friend informed me that the internee in whom he was interested spelt his name Mayer (with an a). The release of both these men has now been authorised.
    Miss Rathbone: Was it not carelessness to rely upon the spelling of the name, as Meyer is notoriously a very common name?
    Mr. Morrison: I do not see why the Department should be presumed guilty. If the name in question was spelt another way, it was not unnatural that one got on the wrong track.
    Mr. Adams: I was not aware of any mistake in spelling.
    Mr. Morrison: If the hon. Gentleman wishes to discuss the matter, perhaps I can arrange for him to see my Department, so that he can satisfy himself, or we can be satisfied, one way or the other.
    Mr. Noel-Bakerasked the Home Secretary when the mixed camp for married internee aliens will be opened?
    Mr. Morrison: I would refer my hon. Friend to the Answer given to my hon. Friend the Member for North Lambeth (Mr. G. Strauss) on 6th March.
    Mr. Noel-Baker: If I remember aright, my right hon. Friend did not indicate the date in that Answer. Is it possible

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    for him to do so now, in view of the great hardship caused to internees by this separation? Will the camp be opened within a measurable time?
    Mr. Morrison: I cannot give a date, but I can assure my hon. Friend that it will be opened. I hope it will not be unduly delayed.
    Mr. Wedgwood: Will not all the internees be let out before then?
    Sir Waldron Smithers: asked the Home Secretary whether, in view of the appeal of the Minister of Labour for engineers, he will order the immediate release from internment of Mr. Peter Cahn Speyer a trained engineer, who has employment assured at Glasgow?
    Mr. Morrison:This case does not come within the terms of any of the White Paper categories of eligibility for release, but I am considering it as a special case, and will notify my decision to my hon. Friend as soon as possible.
    Sir W. Smithers:Is my right hon. Friend aware that this gentleman, whose loyalty is unquestioned, was sent to Canada and brought back again, and that he states that he was told in Canada by an officer there that he had better apply not for admission to the Pioneer Corps, but for the specalist work for which he had been trained? In view of the demand for trained men, can this man not be released as soon as possible to help the national effort?
    Mr. Morrison: This man exercised his right to apply, but he did not come within the category of specialists. He is not in that category at all. As my hon. Friend raises the point, perhaps I had better point out that the man in question is in Category A. His case can be reviewed and will be considered, but that is where he is at the moment.
    Sir W. Smithers:Is my right hon. Friend aware that before the man went to Canada he was employed by Messrs. Weir, of Glasgow, who are prepared to take him back?
    Mr. Morrison: That may be so, but I have given to the House the information at my disposal, and I cannot submit to pressure beyond a certain point.

    SHELTERS.
    Mr. R. J. Taylorasked the Home Secretary whether, in considering priorities in the issue of indoor shelters, regard will be had to areas so low-lying as to render the present Anderson shelters practically useless owing to flooding?
    Mr. H. Morrison: The first consideration in selecting areas must be vulnerability; but local authorities of those areas have been told that householders whose Anderson shelters are unusable may be regarded as eligible to apply for the new indoor shelter.
    Captain Cunningham-Reidasked the Home Secretary whether all large public shelters have been examined by Regional technical staffs with a view to scheduling them if the standard of protection can be secured, as recommended last November by Lord Horder's committee?
    Mr. Morrison:I am informed that this examination has been substantially completed, but the shelters referred to in the recommendation are "self-chosen" shelters, and I am not in a position to say that there are no such shelters in existence which have escaped notice. This is one of the points which I am considering in connection with the proposed Defence Regulation to which I referred last week.
    Captain Cunningham-Reid: If the examination referred to in my Question was in any particular instance unsatisfactory, was the shelter disallowed or was it permitted to continue?
    Mr. Morrison: Where a shelter is definitely unsatisfactory we do our best to close it, provided alternatives are available; but the public too have views about this matter. They are sometimes resourceful in finding for themselves shelters which are not always satisfactory. We are doing our best to deal with the problem.
    Captain Cunningham-Reid: Is it not a fact that if the instructions of the right hon. Gentleman's Ministry had been properly carried out, the serious disaster that occurred recently in a well-known railway station in the Metropolitan area, resulting in 220 casualties, might have been avoided?

    FIRE-BOMB FIGHTERS.
    Mr. Cocksasked the Home Secretary whether arrangements can be made to enable fire-watchers under the compulsory scheme to obtain their out-of-pocket expenses and, in particular, their travelling expenses, from the owner or occupier of the premises concerned?
    Mr. Manderasked the Home Secretary whether arrangements are being made for suitable meals to be supplied to fire-watchers on duty in the factories where they work; and whether it has been made clear that this is the duty of the employer wherever circumstances render this desirable?
    Mr. H. Morrison:These matters, with others arising out of the Fire Prevention (Business Premises) Order, are now being examined in consultation with representatives of the Trades Union Congress and employers' organisations.
    Mr. Cocks: Is my right hon. Friend aware that a great deal of dissatisfaction has been caused because some of the fire watchers have to pay their bus fares out of their pocket?
    Mr. Morrison: I am aware of that fact. It is one of the points which are the subject of discussion.
    Mr. Mander:Will the right hon. Gentleman also bear in mind that this matter is urgent, as arrangements have to be made to supply meals to fire watchers in works canteens? Can he say whether rations will be issued for the purpose?
    Mr. Morrison:That is also one of the factors in the discussion. I can assure the hon. Member that I am very conscious of the great urgency of the whole matter.
    Mr. Simmondsasked the Home Secretary by what date all Regional Commissioners are to report to him regarding the fire watchers available in their regions?
    Mr. Morrison: It was not necessary to fix any particular date, as I am being apprised of the general position by the periodical reports which I receive from Regional Commissioners, supplemented by special reports as occasion demands.
    Mr. Simmonds: Would my right hon. Friend assure the House that he will not
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    allow this question to drag on, where there are insufficient voluntary fire watchers, before the compulsory scheme is put into effect?
    Mr. Morrison:I do not think that I could be suspected of letting this matter drag on. Indeed, it may be a comfort to my hon. Friend if I remind him that I have been strongly criticised for doing things too quickly.
    Mr. Wedgwoodasked the Home Secretary whether he will empower local authorities to occupy empty or vacant houses which could suitably be used as rest centres and assembling places for street fire watchers, since such centres would help both the scheme and the volunteers in residential areas?
    Mr. MorrisonI am not aware that the fire-prevention scheme has been handicapped by the want of suitable premises for the purpose in view, but I will look into the matter.

    CURFEW RESTRICTIONS (ALIENS).
    Mr. Wedgwoodasked the Home Secretary whether he will abolish altogether the curfew restrictions on those aliens who have already volunteered for, and are actively engaged in, the voluntary fire-watching and fighting scheme?
    Mr. H. Morrison:I have no doubt that chief constables will grant exemptions from the curfew restrictions by means of an appropriate endorsement on an alien's police registration certificate to any alien who can show that he is engaged in the schemes referred to. This method is in my view preferable to a general order of exemption, since otherwise there would be no means of indentifying the aliens benefiting from the exemption.

    ALIEN SEAMAN (DEPORTATION).
    Mr. Sorensenasked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that John Joannides, a seaman, on the arrival of his ship, steamship "Armathia," at Liverpool last December, was admitted to the Royal Southern Hospital, and, on his discharge from hospital on 6th February, was granted permission to stay in Liverpool for a month's convalescence by the immigration officer, but on his discharge from hospital was arrested on 10th February and is lodged in Waltham Prison; and what is the reason for imprisoning the seaman?
    Mr. H. Morrison: This alien seaman's leave to land was withdrawn by the immigration officer on the ground that he had been engaging in activities prejudicial to the Allied war effort. I have considered this case, and, in accordance with the policy which I announced in reply to a Question by my hon. Friend on 30th January last, I propose to deport this man to his native country as soon as transport is available.

    EVACUATION.
    Mr Higgsasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that, although a town of which he has been informed has been declared an evacuation area, and that consequently the local authorities have evacuated all possible women and children, they have now been requested by the Ministry to prepare for the reception of further women and children, namely, the wives and families of workers coming into the city: and whether he will take steps to see that the bringing of women and children into such a vulnerable area is discouraged by every possible means?
    The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health (Miss Horsbrugh):My right hon. Friend is sending my hon. Friend a copy of the communication in question, which extended the billeting powers of billeting officers in certain areas to include the families of war workers as well as the workers themselves. The local authority which my hon. Friend has in mind will not be asked to operate the powers save in very exceptional cases.
    Mr. Higgs: Is the Minister aware that I have already received a copy of the Order issued, but that it was issued only on 24th February; that the district to which I refer has been evacuating women and children now for 18 months, and it looks as if we are going to be asked again to fill the district with women and children, which will be very undesirable in the case of further attacks?

    STIRRUP PUMP PAILS, GREENOCK.
    Mr. Robert Gibsonasked the President of the Board of Trade whether he will now order the release of pails for stirrup pumps by wholesalers for the necessary supply of the Greenock area?
    The Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade (Captain Waterhouse):An officer of the Board of Trade has recently visited retailers in Greenock and discussed this matter with the Provost and Town Clerk. He drew attention to the recommendation of the Ministry of Home Security that use should be made of empty four-gallon petrol tins which have been released by the Army. I trust that it will be possible to solve any difficulties in Greenock by the use of these tins.
    Mr. Gibson: Is a supply of these tins available, and are they suitable for domestic use?
    Captain Waterhouse: Yes, Sir; I understand that they are most suitable, and that there is a supply.

  LOCAL AUTHORITIES (STAFFS).
  Mr. Higgsasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the demands of the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Home Security, the Ministry of Food, and other Ministries on the local authorities, are constantly increasing, and that at the same time municipal staffs are being still further depleted by calls to the Forces, making the proper performance of these duties in certain areas impossible; and whether he will take steps to see that local authorities are empowered to retain such trained municipal staff as are necessary to fulfil these additional Government requirements?
  Miss Horsbrugh: My right hon. Friend has recently explained to a deputation from the associations of local authorities the considerations by which the Government are guided in this matter. I can assure my hon. Friend that all material factors are, and will be, borne in mind in determining the calls which must be made on local government staffs for service with His Majesty's Forces.
  Mr. Higgs: Is my hon. Friend aware that the civic authorities of the district to which I refer are experiencing great difficulty in retaining these employés of a low medical grade?
  Miss Horsbrugh: This whole matter was gone into when the deputation was received. My hon. Friend is looking into individual cases which are brought to his notice by the local authorities.
  Sir Joseph Lamb: Is it not the case that this applies to all civic authorities?
  Miss Horsbrugh: It applies to all the population.

  NATIONAL FINANCE.

    ESTATE DUTIES.
    Mr. R. Gibsonasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will take steps to remit Estate Duties in the case of the estates of civilians killed by enemy action?
    The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Captain Crookshank): My hon. Friend will not expect my right hon. Friend to anticipate his Budget statement.

    IMPORT DUTIES.
    Mr. A. Edwardsasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the number of persons engaged directly in the collection of Import Duties and the cost of same for the 12 months to the latest date, together with the value of the duties collected?
    Captain Crookshank: The collection of duties on imported goods is undertaken by the staff of the Customs and Excise Department as part of their general duties, and there are no separate figures available as to staff or cost of the kind requested. The total receipts from all Customs duties for the year ended 31st December, 1940, were £349,000,000.
    Mr. Edwards: Has the right hon. and gallant Gentleman considered the loss of self-respect to men engaged on utterly useless work of this kind, and does he not realise that the cost involved is added to the bills which come back to the Government?
    Captain Crookshank: I could not accept that as a statement of the case.
    Mr. Edwards: Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman look into the matter?

  "BLACK RECORD" (SALE PROCEEDS).
  Mr. Stokesasked the Financial Secretary to the Treasury whether the proceeds of the sale of "Black Record" accrue to the Treasury?
  Captain Crookshank: No, Sir.

  CHINA (BRITISH CREDITS).
  Mr. Priceasked the Secretary to the Department of Overseas Trade the extent to which credits, made available by this country to the Government of China, have been used for purchases abroad during the last six months?
  Mr. Harcourt Johnstone (Secretary, Overseas Trade Department): No part of the credits so far made available by this country to China has been used for purchases abroad.
  Mr. Price: Will the hon. Gentleman assure the House that everything that can be done is being done to assist the Chinese Republic in their great struggle?
  Mr. Johnstone: Yes, Sir.

  MINISTRY OF SUPPLY.

    WAR PRODUCTION, NORTHERN IRELAND.
    Dr. Littleasked the Minister of Supply whether, as conditions in Northern Ireland are specially favourable for the production of war material, he will make early arrangements whereby the workmen available there are kept fully employed within its bounds in providing their quota of the needed war equipment for the defeat of our enemies?
    The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Supply (Mr. Harold Macmillan): My hon. Friend will be aware from replies to his previous Questions on this subject that every endeavour is being made to make full use within Northern Ireland of the facilities available there.
    Dr. Little: Is the Minister aware that there is in Northern Ireland a strong feeling that owing to freedom from air raids the men there ought to be employed at home on war work?

    IRON ORE, NORTHERN IRELAND.
    Dr. Littleasked the Minister of Supply whether he will have samples taken in additional districts of Northern Ireland where there are deposits of iron ore, with a view to the establishment of what would be a valuable war industry in Ulster?
    Mr. Macmillan: The iron ore measures in Northern Ireland have been investigated generally; the deposits at a particular

    1415
    spot appeared to be the most promising, and special steps were, therefore, taken to determine the quality and quantity of the ironstone in this area. I am advised that no other area would justify similar special investigation.
    Sir Hugh O'Neill: Is the Minister aware that up to about 20 years ago there were very considerable shipments of low-grade iron ore from County Antrim to Middlesbrough, where it was mixed with Bilbao ore of a higher grade; and if there is a shortage of iron ore, could not anything be done to resuscitate this industry?
    Mr. Macmillan: That is the purpose of the investigation which is now going on in this particular place.

    MINISTRY PROPERTY (FIRE-BOMB FIGHTERS).
    Mr. Simmondsasked the Minister of Supply the percentage of fire watchers Upon Ministry of Supply property who are unpaid; and whether those who are paid are all whole-time fire watchers?
    Mr. Macmillan:I regret that the information asked for is not available, but in the ordinary non-industrial buildings we have no persons directly employed as paid fire watchers. In the industrial establishments, ordinary operatives engaged on fire-watching duty are not paid as fire watchers, but may be drawing their ordinary wages for the time they are on such duty. Conditions vary widely, and in some cases ordinary employés have been supplemented by whole-time paid watchers.
    Mr. Simmonds: Does that mean that very frequently those who do a day's work in the Department are being paid overtime rates for fire watching?
    Mr. Macmillan: I was asked about property.
    Mr. Simmonds: Yes, the property of the Department.
    Mr. Macmillan: My hon. Friend will realise that the property directly under the control of the Department is of a very varied kind. In certain storage depots, for instance, where the fire risk is very great, we have to engage full-time watchers.

  JAMAICA (CONSTITUTION).
  Mr. David Adamsasked the Under secretary of State for the Colonies whether he has expressed disapproval of the recent public declaration of the Governor of Jamaica to the effect that Dominion status was impracticable for a long time as calculated to arrest the legitimate and commendable aspirations of this loyal people who enjoyed a large measure of self-government until 1866?
  The Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies (Mr. George Hall): No disapproval of the declaration in question has been expressed. I would invite reference to the statement which I made yesterday with regard to the Constitution of Jamaica.
  Mr. Adams:In view of the wide extension of self-government to Jamaica as announced yesterday, would it not appear to be clear that the Governor was speaking after dinner?

  PEACE AIMS.
  Mr. Stokesasked the Prime Minister whether he will consider embodying in any declaration which may be made on behalf of His Majesty's Government on the foundations of peace the principles of assuring to all nations their right to life and independence, delivering nations from the slavery imposed upon them by the race for armaments, adjusting international rules and the control of resources to meet the needs and demands of nations, populations and racial minorities, even where no strictly legal right can be established, instituting some juridical body which will guarantee the faithful fulfilment of the conditions agreed upon, and developing among peoples and their rulers that sense of responsibility which weighs human statutes according to the laws of God?
  The Lord Privy Seal (Mr. Attlee):These and all other relevant matters will, no doubt, be taken into consideration, but I have nothing to add at present to previous answers given on this subject.
  Mr. Stokes: Does the Lord Privy Seal recognise that the Question on the Order Paper contains the gist of the five points laid down by his Holiness the Pope as forming a solid foundation for future

  1417
  peace; is he aware that those points have been accepted universally by the representatives of the Christian Churches in this country, and would it not help the common good if the Government would make a pronouncement to the same effect?
  Mr. Thurtle: Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that in any declaration of peace aims made by the Government it is essential to avoid these vague, pious platitudes?

  SUMMER TIME (FARMERS).
  Mr. Hannahasked the Home Secretary whether he will consider the appointment of a small committee to investigate the possibility of farmers using sun-time while the bulk of the community employs daylight saving time, as is found convenient in some sections of the American West?
  Mr. H. Morrison: I understand that my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture has under consideration certain proposals which have been submitted to him by farmers' representatives. In these circumstances I do not think that the appointment of a special committee of inquiry is necessary.
  Mr. Hannah: If we must take our time from Berlin, or even from Moscow, may we not allow the farmer to follow the tradition of a thousand years, and take his time from God?

  CHANNEL ISLANDS (CORRESPONDENCE).
  Sir P. Hannonasked the Home Secretary whether his recent efforts to improve the exchange of correspondence between the Channel Islands and this country has had effect; and whether he is aware that complaint is still being made that letters to and from the Channel Islands have suffered longer periods of delay than in the case of other occupied countries?
  Mr. H. Morrison: I am very conscious of the difficulties and delays experienced in the exchange of correspondence between persons in this country and their relatives and friends in the Channel Islands, and my hon. Friend may be assured that nothing which I can do to
  1418
  assist in overcoming those difficulties will be left undone. While every effort will be made to improve the arrangements, I think an expression of thanks is due to the War Organisation of the British Red Cross Society and Order of St. John, whose Director published in the ' Times'' of 22nd February a valuable statement as to the means of communication which are at present available.

  MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT (DISQUALIFICATIONS).
  Mr. R. Gibsonasked the Prime Minister whether he will take steps to ensure that, when disabilities and restrictions of Members of Parliament are next brought under review, the same disqualifications and limitations will apply to Members of the House of Lords as are applicable to Members of the House of Commons; and whether he has any statement to make on the subject?
  Mr. Attlee:I do not appreciate to what disqualifications and limitations my hon. and learned Friend refers. Disqualifications with regard to election cannot apply to the House of Lords. If my hon. and learned Friend is referring to Privilege, each House is the guardian of its own Privileges.
  Mr. Gibson:Will my right hon. Friend keep in mind that there are certain disqualifications which appertain to Members of this House due to circumstances that existed during the reign of Queen Anne but which no longer obtain? Will he also keep in mind that Members of the other House are still legislators; and is there any reason in principle why the disqualifications which affect Members of this House should not also affect Members of the other House?

  FREIGHTAGE CHARGES (FOOD AND FUEL).
  Mr. Leslieasked the Prime Minister whether, with a view to equality of sacrifice, a pooling arrangement could be operated in freightage charges enabling residents in remote parts of the British Isles to obtain food and fuel at a price no less favourable than that which prevails on the mainland?
  Mr. Attlee: As regards fuel prices, I would refer my hon. Friend to the statements made on this matter by the President of the Board of Trade and the Secretary for Mines during the Debate on the Mines Department Vote on Account on 19th February. As regards food, the practicability of some such arrangement as that suggested in the Question is under consideration, but the problem of framing any such scheme is very complicated.
  Mr. Leslie: Is my right hon. Friend aware that the bulk of the male population of the Hebrides are serving with the Colours and in the Merchant Navy, with the result that considerable hardship is imposed on the womenfolk there by the level of prices of food and coal at the present time, and cannot something be done soon?
  Mr. Attlee: That is one of the problems under consideration.

  AGRICULTURE.

    LIVESTOCK POLICY
    Mr. De la Bèreasked the Minister of Agriculture whether he can now make a statement concerning the future livestock policy of the Government, having special regard to the recent reduction in the supply of available feeding-stuffs; and whether he will now consider some alternative method not based on cutting down prices in order to reduce the number of pigs and sheep on the farms?
    The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. R. S. Hudson): The measures that will be necessary, in addition to the devaluation of the ration coupon, to secure a reduction in the livestock population to accord with the reduced supplies of feeding-stuffs of all kinds, including grazing, are now under consideration. As announced on 1st March, prices of certain classes of fat pigs have already been increased temporarily to facilitate a reduction in numbers.
    Mr. De la Bère: Is my right hon. Friend aware that one effect of the Government's policy will be to curtail the pig population, and that a temporary concession is no permanent solution of the hardships we have had to go through as a result of the unjust methods employed?
    Mr. Granville: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that farmers are being charged excessive prices for feeding-stuffs because they have insufficient credit to pay cash prices, and will he look into this?
    Mr. Hudson: Perhaps my hon. Friend will let me have particulars.

    POULTRY INDUSTRY.
    Mr. De la Bèreasked the Minister of Agriculture whether, in view of the Government's policy of reduction in poultry stocks necessitated by the shortage of feeding-stuffs, he will confer with the Minister of Food with a view to ensuring that no further reduction of prices paid to poultry keepers takes place, since poultry keepers will, by reason of the decrease in their stocks, be facing a loss in revenue, which, added to the reduction in the prices they receive for their eggs, will conspire to put them out of business altogether?
    Mr. Hudson: I am already in consultation with my right hon. Friend the Minister of Food about the future course of prices of eggs and table poultry, and an announcement will be made as soon as possible.
    Mr. Priceasked the Minister of Agriculture whether, in view of the great hardship involved in the reduction of feeding-stuff rations for poultry to ex-Service men and to small persons whose sole livelihood is poultry, he will consider some scheme whereby supplementary rations could be allowed to hard cases?
    Mr. Hudson: I regret that,owing to the exigencies of the feeding-stuffs supply position, it is not possible to adopt the hon. Member's suggestion.

    HOUSEHOLD WASTE.
    Mr. De la Bèreasked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will confer with the Minister of Supply and the Minister of Food with a view to ensuring an increased production of concentrates derived from kitchen waste being available for pig and poultry keepers throughout the country early in April, 1941, in view of the further reduction in feeding-stuffs ration which has taken place?
    Mr. Hudson: I would deprecate on the one hand exaggeration of the amount of waste available and on the other lack of

    1421
    appreciation of what is already being done. My hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Supply gave yesterday figures showing the large proportion of available waste already being collected by local authorities. In addition, farmers, and contractors on be-half of farmers, are collecting material quantities privately. Moreover, we have organised no fewer than 750,000 backyarders with nearly 15,000,000 hens who must collect in the shape of waste two-thirds of the food consumed by the poultry. In addition, the number of pig clubs is steadily increasing. They depend almost wholly on local voluntary collection of waste food. Finally, as my hon. Friend stated yesterday, further steps are being taken to provide more local authorities with concentrator plants.
    Mr. Dc la Bère: Will my right hon. Friend give full and concentrated thought to this matter? Is he not aware that his puny, piffling and unfinished thought must cease, and will he talk to Colin D. Campbell, the wheat expert, with a view to seeing whether we cannot get more foodstuffs over and above these waste foods? The poultry and pig position is really a matter of life and death, and he is not tackling the matter seriously at all.
    Mr. Price: Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the distribution of waste food plays any role in the spreading of foot-and-mouth disease, and is it not a fact that the boiling of swill eliminates that danger?
    Mr. Hudson: I cannot accept for one moment that there is any lack of drive. We are in fact collecting the greater part of the waste food available in this country to-day, and what is left is merely a small part. As far as foot-and-mouth disease is concerned, it is perfectly true that boiling swill is a safeguard against the spread of the disease, but most, if not all, of the outbreaks caused by swill are due to the distribution of raw swill from the towns to the farms, and the infections have undoubtedly arisen before the swill could be boiled on the farms.
    Mr. De la Bère:Is my right hon. Friend aware that I am acutely dissatisfied with the Ministry of Agriculture?

    RAT DESTRUCTJON.
    Lieut.-Colonel Heneageasked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will make a statement as to the progress of rat destruction?
    Mr. Hudson:I am satisfied that the campaign for rat destruction has already met with a considerable measure of success, and I am determined that there shall be no relaxation of effort in this direction in the future.
    Lieut.-Colonel Heneageasked the Minister of Agriculture what Government Departments and what categories of authorities, owners, and occupiers are responsible for destruction of rats in Great Britain?
    Mr. Hudson: The Government Departments responsible for the administration of powers relating to the destruction of rats in Great Britain are the Ministries of Agriculture, Health and Food, and the Department of Agriculture for Scotland. The authorities vested with powers are certain local authorities, port sanitary authorities, county war agricultural executive committees and food control committees. Under the Rats and Mice (Destruction) Act, 1919. occupiers of land are required to take steps for the destruction of rats on their premises.
    Lieut.-Colonel Heneage: Does not my right hon. Friend think that there are too many authorities responsible for the destruction of rats, and is not that one of the reasons why some authorities do their job and others do not, with the result that the rats are increasing by thousands; and will my right hon. Friend consider centralising the destruction of rats under a national campaign?
    Mr. Hudson: There is already a national rat campaign going now.

    VEGETABLE CROPS (LABOUR SUPPLY).
    Sir I. Alberyasked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware that some farmers in Kent have been returning seed and curtailing their vegetable crops on account of an expected shortage of labour for gathering the crops; and will he give an assurance that adequate steps will be taken to ensure the gathering of all crops planted?
    Mr. Hudson: I was not aware of the facts stated in this Question, although I

    1423
    understand that there is some anxiety among farmers in North Kent as to what the labour position may be later in the year. While I obviously cannot give any guarantee as to what may be possible in any particular district in several months time, I can assure my hon. Friend that my Department, in co-operation with the Ministry of Labour and the county war agricultural executive committees, will take every practicable step to ensure an adequate supply of labour for the planting, cultivation and harvesting of essential crops. It will, of course, be necessary for farmers to co-operate by notifying their probable requirements in good time either to their local Employment Exchange, or to their county war agricultural executive committee.
    Sir I. Albery: Has my right hon. Friend taken into account the fact that a great deal of the female labour which was to have been available to collect crops will not now be available owing to the increased demands for female labour?
    Mr. Hudson: That is a matter which obviously we cannot overlook.
    Viscountess Astor: Is not that entirely due to the lack of foresight on the part of the Minister of Agriculture before the present Minister?

    MILK
    Mr. Lipsonasked the Minister of Agriculture what steps he is taking to ensure that an adequate supply of milk will be maintained?
    Mr. Hudson: Dairy cows receive priority in the allocation of feeding-stuffs under the rationing scheme, and every encouragement is being given to dairy farmers in the ploughing-up campaign to become more self-supporting and to safeguard supplies of feed next winter by making silage and growing suitable fodder crops for their herds. In addition, the Government have recently announced prices for milk during the ensuing 12 months which are designed to maintain production at the highest level compatible with war conditions.
    Mr. Lipson:Has my right hon. Friend seen a letter from Lord Dawson of Penn which appeared in the "Times" on Monday, and can he assure the House
    1424
    that there is complete co-operation between his Department, the Ministry of Food and the Ministry of Health on the question of food supplies?
    Mr. Hudson: I am aware of the fact that Lord Dawson of Penn wrote that letter under a complete misapprehension. It is indisputable that an acre of corn will feed a cow better than an acre of grass.
    Mr. Garro Jones:In view of the rather inadequate response by farmers to the appeals for the making of silage, will my right hon. Friend consider setting up an organisation of mobile workers to construct silos and make silage on farms throughout the country?
    Mr. Hudson:I cannot accept that there is any lack of response on the part of farmers in regard to the making of silage. Owing to the drought, there was no grass to make silage; a great many farmers had made preparations beforehand, as a result of our propaganda campaign, only to find no grass available. The campaign will be repeated this spring, and I hope to obtain something of the order of 2,000,000 to 3,000,000 tons.

    WOMEN'S LAVD ARMY.
    Sir P. Hannonasked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will make a statement on the progress which has been made in recruitment for the Women's Land Army; whether this important source for the provision of labour upon the land is receiving the special attention of the county war agricultural committees; whether comparison of results receives the attention of his Department; and whether special effort is being applied where slackness is evident?
    Mr. Hudson: Well over 2,000 new volunteers have been enrolled in the Women's Land Army during the last nine weeks. These have either been placed in employment, or preliminary training has been arranged for them. A broadcast announcement appealing for further volunteers was made two days ago, following a conference of Women's Land Army county chairmen and county secretaries, which I addressed on the urgency of the problem facing the Women's Land Army. The results of the recruiting and the needs of the Women's Land Army throughout the country are receiving the constant attention of my Department, and

    1425
    every effort is being made to ensure that all areas are doing what is required of them
    Sir P. Hannon: Is the Minister co-operating with the Minister of Labour to see that there shall be no conflict between women workers on munitions and the Women's Land Army?
    Mr. Hudson: There is not necessarily any conflict, but we have the matter under consideration. That is one of the reasons why it has been necessary to proceed with caution in Warwickshire.
    Viscountess Astor: Does the Minister not think that if the Government had taken advice which was given to them two years ago and had made preparations, this situation would not have arisen?
    Mr. Hudson: I was not Minister of Agriculture then.
    Mr. Cecil Wilsonasked the Minister of Agriculture the circumstances under which Land Army girls were released in order to round up hares for the Waterloo Cup; how many girls were so employed; what number of hand hours were given to this occupation; what other work was neglected; and how many other persons were engaged?
    Mr. Hudson: I understand that five members of the Women's Land Army acted for three days recently as beaters for the Waterloo Cup, which was run on the farm where they were employed. The five girls concerned were due for a holiday, and the three days of the Waterloo Cup are normal days of holiday for employés on this farm. I am not aware that this break in the girls' work on the farm had any appreciable effect on food production. They were engaged in sacking potatoes for market, and, owing to the hard frost, the potato pits could not be opened during the period in question.
    Miss Rathbone: Is it not objectionable that girls should be used for this form of cruelty?

    FLOODING.
    Mr. Evelyn Walkdenasked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will give an assurance that the maximum effort is now being made to prevent a recurrence of the flooding and widespread
    1426
    damage to homesteads, farm buildings, agricultural land, and smallholdings in the districts of which he has been informed?
    Mr. Hudson: I am assured that the drainage authorities concerned are taking all practicable steps to prevent a repetition of the events to which the hon. Member refers.
    Mr. Walkden: Is the Minister aware that during the recent disastrous floods 36 farmers in that area suffered damage to the extent of £10,000, and that they are almost destitute, or bankrupt?
    Mr. Hudson: I am aware of the difficulties to which the hon. Member refers, which were very largely the result of the worst floods for at least 10 years. I am assured that certain steps have been taken, or are being put in hand, to try and obviate any recurrence. I cannot pretend that those steps will not take some considerable time to carry out.

    GLASSHOUSES (AIR-RAID DAMAGE).
    Mr. Hannahasked the Minister of Agriculture what arrangements exist for the repair of greenhouses used for the production of food which are damaged by enemy action?
    Mr. Hudson: Pending the passage of the War Damage Bill into law, and apart from arrangements which owners have been able to make, no special provision has been made for the repair of glasshouses damaged by enemy action.
    Mr. Hannah: Is not that rather unfortunate, considering that such things as tomatoes must be grown indoors?

  FISHING INDUSTRY.
  Mr. Robertsonasked the Minister of Agriculture whether, with the object of lowering fish prices, he will consider chartering all trawlers and drifters now fishing on similar terms to those of the Admiralty; the appointment of a panel of three expert trawl masters to manage the fleet; and the payment of fixed and fair wages to the fishermen with a bonus on the results of each voyage?
  Mr. Hudson: I have noted my hon. Friend's suggestion. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Food is already actively

  1427
  considering, in consultation with the different sections of the fishing industry and fish trade, the question of the control of prices of white fish. Maximum prices are already in force for herrings.

  SIR WALTER CITRINE (BROADCAST CENSORSHIP).
  Mr. Manderasked the Minister of Information the circumstances in which a broadcast made by Sir Walter Citrine to North America was censored?
  The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Information (Mr. Harold Nicolson): The script of Sir Walter Citrine's talk conflicted with a standing censorship instruction which prohibits, in the interests of national security, the mention of a particular subject. The reasons underlying this prohibition still retain their force, and it would have been unfair to make an exception to a rule which has been loyally accepted by other broadcasters and by the Press. I can only regret that Sir Walter felt himself unable to deliver the broadcast without including the passage in question.
  Mr. Blander: In view of the eminent position of Sir Walter Citrine and the great services he has rendered to this country in the United States, is it not very absurd to interfere with his broadcasting?
  'Mr. Nicolson: No, Sir; there is no question of the eminence of the broadcaster. The point is merely that he cannot give information which is denied to the Press.
  Mr. Noel-Baker: Was not this matter handled by the censorship in a very unfortunate manner? In view of the many complaints about the B.B.C. censorship, will the hon. Gentlemen not - undertake that the whole question will be reconsidered?
  Mr. Nicolson: The question is constantly being reconsidered.

  PUBLIC UTILITY COMPANIES AND UNDERTAKINGS (ACCOUNTS AND MEETINGS).
  Mr Henry Strauss(by Private Notice)asked the Minister of Information
  1428
  whether the attention of His Majesty's Government has been drawn to the possibility of the enemy acquiring information of military value through the publication, in the Press and elsewhere, of the accounts, annual reports and chairmen's speeches of public utility companies and undertakings, many of which companies are holding their annual meetings in the immediate future, and what action they propose to take in the matter?
  The Minister of Information (Mr. Duff Cooper): Yes, Sir. The Government have this matter under most careful consideration, and a decision on this matter will be taken by the Departments of the Government concerned in the near future. I hope that, pending a decision, chairmen and directors of such companies and undertakings will postpone the publication of accounts and the holding of meetings. I am sure that shareholders and others who are waiting the accounts will realise that this request is dictated solely by reasons of national security.
  Mr. Garro Jones: Is my right hon. Friend aware that at present the principle of voluntary censorship, established by the Government, is in operation? Is it quite fair, either to newspapers or to technical journals, to put them in the position of voluntarily censoring matter, and so depriving themselves of revenue? Will he consider, particularly in the case of technical information, the institution of a compulsory censorship?
  Mr. Cooper: I think that the voluntary censorship has worked very satisfactorily hitherto; and I should deplore any departure from the voluntary principle in regard to censorship. Everybody has shown himself willing, in the national interest, to make the sacrifices referred to by the hon. Member.
  Sir I. Albery: What need is there to postpone the publication of accounts, and even the holding of meetings, so long as no information is given which would be against the public interest?
  Mr. Cooper: We have to take steps to make sure that no such information is given. It is feared that if the accounts were published at the present time, and if meetings were held, such information might, unwillingly, and perhaps unwittingly, be given to the enemy.
  Mr, Naylor: Will the inquiry extend to the question of the desirability of stopping the publication in the Press of prices of gilt-edged securities?
  Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That does not arise out of this Question.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. Lees-Smith:Might I ask the Lord Privy Seal to state the Business of the House on forthcoming days?
Mr. Attlee: The Business will be as follows:
On the first Sitting Day: Report stage of the Army, Navy and Air Estimates; and a Motion to approve the Cold Storage (Charges) (No. 2) Order.
On the second Sitting Day: Second Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill; Debate on the Ministry of Works and Buildings.
On the third Sitting Day: Committee and remaining stages of the Consolidated Fund Bill; Debate on Woman-Power.
The Debate on the Concentration of Industry will take place in the near future.
Earl Winterton: Is my right hon. Friend aware that my right hon. Friend the Member for Carnarvon Boroughs (Mr. Lloyd George) and a number of us in different parts of the House desire to press most earnestly for a Debate on food production in the near future? Will he consider allowing that to take place on the Appropriation Bill, or on some other occasion before Easter?
Mr. Attlee: The request has been noted, and we shall endeavour to arrange for a Debate as soon as possible, having regard to the Business before the House.
Mr. Granville: On a previous occasion the right hon. Gentleman said that he would consider whether the House might sit extra time, or on another day, for a Debate on this question. Has he given the matter such consideration?
Mr. Attlee: Some consideration has been given to that, but it does not appear that the majority of Members of the House find that it would be convenient to sit the extra day at the present time—[Interruption.]—I am endeavouring to find out the opinion of the House, and I am not persuaded at present that it is the general
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desire of the House. If it should be found necessary for Government Business, of course, it will have to be done.
Mr. Magnay: Is it not evident that the House is the best judge of the feelings of the House, because in this time of emergency the usual channels do not function properly? Why not take a vote or a show of hands or something now? We would soon settle it.
Mr. Thome: Is the Lord Privy Seal in a position to state when the Prime Minister will make a statement in connection with the international situation?
Mr. Attlee: No, Sir, I cannot say at present.

ORDERS OF THE DAY.

  SUPPLY.
  [2ND ALLOTTED DAY.]
  Resolution [19th February] reported:
  CIVIL ESTIMATES AND ESTIMATES FOR REVENUE DEPARTMENTS, 1941 (VOTE ON ACCOUNT).
  "That a sum, not exceeding £192,055,000 be granted to His Majesty, on account, for or rewards defraying the charges for the following Civil and Revenue Departments (including Education and Broadcasting, Pensions, Health and Unemployment Insurance, Unemployment Assistance, Roads and other grants and Exchequer Contributions to Local Revenues) for the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1942"
  [For details of Vote on Account see Official Report, 19th February, 1941; cols. 175–178.]
  Resolution agreed to.

  SECRET SESSION.
  Notice taken that Strangers were present.
  Whereupon Mr. Deputy-Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order No. 89, put the Question," That strangers be ordered to withdraw"
  Question agreed to.
  Strangers withdrew accordingly.
  [The following record of the subsequent proceedings appeared in the Votes and Proceedings
  Resolved, "That the remainder of this day's Sitting be a Secret Session"—[Mr. Attlee.]
  ADJOURNMENT.
  Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn"—[Mr. James Stuart.]
  And it being the hour appointed for the interruption of business, the Motion for the Adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put.
  Resolved, "That this House do now adjourn"—[Mr. James Stuart]