Commons Sitting of 19 September 1940

Preamble
Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.

  MILITARY SERVICE (CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTORS).
  Mr. Ralph Ethertonasked the Minister of Labour how many men have claimed to be registered as conscientious objectors; how many have now had their cases dealt with by local tribunals; how many have been registered, and of those registered, how many have been ordered to undertake work of national importance; how many have found, and are now engaged in, such work; and what steps are being taken in regard to the remainder?
  The Minister of Labour (Mr. Ernest Bevin): Up to the end of August, 51,261 men had been provisionally registered in the register of conscientious objectors, 26,447 applications had been considered by local tribunals and 12,868 men had been registered (conditionally or unconditionally) in the register of conscientious objectors. Of these 3,423 had been ordered to undertake civil work specified by the Tribunals other than their existing work, and 1,935 men had found such work. In regard to the remainder, the position is kept under constant review, and my Department gives them all possible assistance in finding the work specified. There is machinery for referring back to the local tribunal any case in which the man appears not to be observing the condition of his registration.
  Mr. Etherton: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there seems to be a substantial number who have not found work which they were ordered to do, and is it possible to do something further with regard to them?
  Mr. Bevin: I have offered the services of conscientious objectors to the Supply Departments, where that is possible, and to agriculture. My Department cannot provide employment, but can only put these people in touch with the Departments which do provide employment.

  DISTRICT BANK, LIMITED (STAFF).
  Mr. Glenvil Hallasked the Minister of Labour whether his attention has been called to the fact that all members of the staff of the District Bank, Limited, have been told that, in compliance with the Emergency Powers (Defence) Conditions of Employment and National Arbitration Order of 18th July, 1940, it is necessary for them to form a new staff association on a contributory basis and that such association will have the right of appeal to the National Arbitration Tribunal; and whether, as no such obligation or right arises, either under this or any other Order, he will take steps to make this clear to all concerned?
  Mr. Bevin: I have been in communication with the bank concerned, who inform me that they have not made any statement such as that referred to in the first part of the Question. As regards the second part of the Question, the Conditions of Employment and National Arbitration Order, 1940, requires any dispute which is reported to me and is not otherwise settled to be referred to arbitration.
  Mr. Hall: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have seen the circular and have a copy in my possession; and if I send it to him, will he call the attention of the bank to the discrepancy between the circular and the information they have given him?
  Mr. Bevin: Certainly, Sir.

  NATIONAL WAR EFFORT.

    UNEMPLOYMENT (ESSENTIAL INDUSTRIES).
    Captain Pluggeasked the Minister of Labour whether, in view of the latest unemployment figures, he will take the 10 most essential industries to the prosecution of the war and state in each case how many men, trained in each such industry, are unemployed, together with the reasons for such unemployment?
    Mr. Bevin: The numbers unemployed in various industries are published monthly in the Ministry of Labour "Gazette." Having regard to the many more urgent war-time tasks which are being undertaken by the staff of my Department, I do not think it practicable to make the detailed inquiries suggested by my hon. and gallant Friend. I have, however, arranged for all persons who have been

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    unemployed for one month or more to be interviewed by panels with a view to ascertaining the reasons for their unemployment and suggesting the best method of getting them into employment.
    Colonel Arthur Evans: Are the panels to be established locally with representatives of both employers and employés on them?
    Mr. Bevin: Yes, Sir. They consist of people taken from the local unemployment committees.
    Sir Henry Morris-Jones: Can the Minister explain how it is that trained mechanics and engineers are now without work and cannot get it? I have sent him an example of this.
    Mr. Bevin: I will inquire about the example which the hon. Member sent me, and which I have not seen yet; but I am not aware that there is any considerable number of mechanics unemployed, except in the ordinary course of labour turnover, which goes on all the time.

    COAL MINE WORKERS.
    Mr. David Adamsasked the Secretary for Mines the number of mine workers unemployed in County Durham; whether steps are being taken whereby an equitable share of all orders for home supplies is given to collieries in County Durham, and redundant workers are permitted to accept employment in other coalfields or industries; and whether mine workers definitely retained upon grounds of national urgency are now to receive full wages for all working time involuntarily lost?
    The Secretary for Mines (Mr. David Grenfell): The number of unemployed mine workers registered by the Ministry of Labour in County Durham at 12th August was 4,178 wholly unemployed and 13,506 temporarily stopped. Steps are being taken, so far as transport conditions and the qualities of coal produced permit, to give an increased share of orders to Durham. Steps are also being taken, in consultation with both sides of the industry, to encourage the transfer of coal miners from Durham to other coal-mining districts where they are needed, and there has been some relaxation regarding coal miners who are unemployed and wish to take up work in other industries. As I said on 20th August in
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    answer to my hon. Friend, it is necessary to keep a sufficient margin of man-power available in the coal-mining industry to meet all possible demands, and to provide against local interruptions arising out of war conditions. I cannot add to my answer of 20th August in relation to the payment of full wages for short-time working.
    Mr. Adams: The replies which I have received hitherto have been to the effect that men who are involuntarily unemployed and are retained at the mines do not receive wages for the time lost. It seems an inequitable arrangement. Will the Minister not consider the matter further?
    Mr. Grenfell: I think I must ask to be excused. Questions touching unemployment benefit must be addressed to another Minister and not to me.
    Mr. Shinwell: Will the Minister make further inquiries with regard to the removal of the present restrictions on alternative employment, because many men are complaining that although they have been permitted by colliery managers to seek employment in munition works, when they go there they are sent back by the Employment Exchanges?
    Mr. Grenfell: I am well aware of that, and I have discussed that aspect of the question with representatives of the Durham mineworkers, who are well informed on the subject, and who are in constant touch with the mineworkers, with ourselves and with the Ministry of Labour. I am meeting to-morrow the Miners' Federation of Great Britain, and these two districts of Durham and South Wales will be represented. We are doing everything we can to try to relieve the pressure of unemployment in those two districts, which have suffered such a grievous injury by the collapse of the export trade in circumstances known to everyone in this House.
    Mr. Thorne: Does the advice to people to store away coal still stand?
    Mr. Grenfell: Yes, Sir.
    Mr. Lawson: On a point of accuracy. The Minister stated that the number wholly unemployed was 4,000 on 12th August, but that would not be representative of the situation now. It is actually worse now.
    Mr. Grenfell: There would be an addition to that figure, but it would not be advisable for me to give other figures than those which were given to me by the Ministry of Labour.
    Mr. Lawsonasked the Minister of Labour what steps he is taking to deal with unemployment among miners in certain coalfields?
    Mr. Bevin: As my hon. Friend is aware, I arrived at an arrangement with my right hon. Friend the Minister for Mines by which there was allocated to the coal industry in May last a labour force which was calculated to meet the requirements of that industry on the basis of the anticipated increased production. I also prohibited people from leaving the industry and undertook to direct others back to the industry. The collapse of France and the loss of European markets completely altered the situation. I have been in constant communication regarding this problem with my hon. Friend, and in order to meet the new situation I took steps to modify the administration of the Order by causing a cessation of the return of people to the mines and further gave instructions that in those districts where inert were unemployed they should be released for other industries. This is a national problem which I am sure the coal industry wish to tackle on a national basis. At present practically all men in the coal industry who are accustomed to work underground are reserved from calling up under the National Service (Armed Forces) Act. That position must, I am satisfied, be altered and the whole matter put upon a more satisfactory basis by calling up a substantial number of coal workers of the lower ages. I am in consultation with my hon. Friend the Minister for Mines as to the numbers who should remain reserved and as to the steps that should be taken to deal with the surplus. I hope to have an early opportunity of discussing the whole matter, in association with my right hon. Friend, with representatives of the organisations on both sides in the industry.

    MALNUTRITION, (SCHOOL CHILDREN).
    Mr. David Adamsasked the President of the Board of Education whether his attention has been called to the wide discrepancies in the assessment of mal-
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    nutrition among school children in different Tyneside areas revealed by a recent investigation by Dr. D. M. Goodfellow, of Newcastle; and whether, in view of the danger of increasing malnutrition among school children as a result of the present war, he will take immediate steps to have assessments of nutritional standards brought into line throughout the whole country, so that a reliable knowledge of the facts may be obtained?
    The President of the Board of Education (Mr. Ramsbotham): I am aware that there are considerable differences in the percentages of undernourished children found by school medical officers in the various Tyneside areas, though the differences shown by the returns for 1939 are not so great as in the returns for earlier years, on which Dr. Goodfellow's criticisms were based. Such variations are, to some extent, real, and due to differences in the social circumstances of the areas, though they are no doubt in part due to differences in the standards adopted by the school medical officers. Where the returns appear to indicate that the medical officer's standard differs materially from that usually adopted, it is the practice of the Board to arrange for a visit to the area by one of their medical officers for the purpose of discussing the matter with the school medical officer and, if necessary, conducting a sample nutrition survey in a group of schools.
    Mr. Adams: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that his answer is only a partial reply to the Question, which is whether nutritional standards throughout the country can be brought into harmony so that the figures for the whole country may be made available?
    Mr. Ramsbotham: I think that if the hon. Member will study my answer, he will see that the procedure I am carrying out is very much what he recommends.

    WANSTEAD AND WOODFORD BOROUGH COUNCIL.
    Mr. Parkerasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that Wanstead and Woodford Borough Council set up an emergency committee of 13 members, including only one Labour member, on 10th July, 1940, to which were delegated all the powers and duties of the council and its committees; whether such action, at a period when the war situation did

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    not justify such a course of action, has received his approval; and what steps he proposes to take to restore constitutional government in these areas?
    Mr. Frankelasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the Wanstead and Woodford Borough Council have appointed an emergency committee with plenary powers for general administration; and whether, in view of the fact that circumstances up to the present do not justify this extreme action, he will make representations to the local authority in question?
    The Minister of Health (Mr. Malcolm MacDonald): I am aware of the fact that emergency arrangements have been made by the council, but the appointment of committees, and the extent of the delegation of their powers by local authorities, are governed by statutory provisions and the arrangements made are not subject to my approval.

    OLD AGE PENSIONS.
    Mr. Debbieasked the Minister of Health whether in view of the dissatisfaction existing in the country at the moment in regard to the application of the family means test to the applicants for supplementary pensions, he will consider the withdrawal of that test and consider only the personal means of the applicant?
    Mr. M. MacDonald: The general basis upon which supplementary pensions are granted was recently decided upon by this House after very full Debate, and I have no power to substitute a personal means test for that provided by the Statute.

    TUBERCULOSIS.
    Mr. Gallacherasked the Minister of Health whether he will give the number of deaths from tuberculosis in all its forms in England and Wales during the last three months of 1938, the first three months of 1939, the last three months of 1939, and the first three months of 1940, respectively, with separate figures for males and females?
    Mr. M. MacDonald: As the answer involves columns of figures, I will, with permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
    Following is the answer:

    Deaths from Tuberculosis (al forms) registered in England and Wales.

    —

    Males.

    Females

    Total.

    Last three months 1938

    3,480

    2,650

    6,130

    First three months 1939

    4,523

    3,503

    8,026

    Last three months 1939

    3,664

    2,533

    6,197

    First three months 1940

    Not yet available.

    The above figures are provisional.

    CHANNEL ISLANDS.
    Mr. Ammonasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he has any information as to the food situation in the Channel Islands; whether he is aware that men serving with the Forces are anxious as to the fate of their families left on the Islands; and whether His Majesty's Government have made any attempt to open up communications, if only by prisoner-of-war postcards, or by the dropping of leaflets from aircraft?
    The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Sir John Anderson): As my hon. Friend knows, I am most anxious to establish communication with the Islands; but the efforts which have been made to do so have not as yet met with success, and I am not in a position to make any public statement on the matter.
    Mr. Ammon: I take it that the right hon. Gentleman has no information.
    Sir J. Anderson: I have no information.
    Mr. Mander: Do I understand that the neutral country representing us is unwilling or unable to send a representative to the Channel Islands, and to look after our interests there and report on the matter?
    Sir J. Anderson: It is not a question of anyone being unwilling or unable. It is quite clear that a visit for this purpose can be made only under an arrangement made with the German Government, and that is where the difficulty arises.

  CIVIL DEFENCE.

    VOLUNTEERS (COMPENSATION).
    Mr. Woodburnasked the Home Secretary what provisions will be made to meet the cases of air-raid precautions

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    wardens and decontamination squads who, in the case of working men volunteers, may be prevented by prolonged duty from being able to attend their ordinary work and thus be subject to severe financial strain; and also what arrangements have been made to make compensation in the case of volunteers and wardens whose clothing may be destroyed in the course of their service?
    Sir J. Anderson: Every endeavour is made to minimise interference with the normal employment of Civil Defence volunteers, but those who suffer a loss of earnings through duty performed in their normal working hours are compensated for the actual loss sustained, up to a maximum of 10s. a day for men and 7s. for women. Within the same limits compensation is paid for loss of up to two hours remunerative time following a spell of duty which, though performed outside normal working hours, prevents a volunteer from reaching his place of employment at the normal starting time. Reasonable payments may also be made by local authorities to volunteers where they are satisfied that clothing has been damaged in the course of duty.
    Mr. Woodburn: Is the Minister aware that there is apprehension among many of the volunteers that with the long spells of duty that have been taking place in London, it may not be possible for a volunteer to reach his work at all on a given day, and in that case, under the existing rules, he evidently receives no compensation? Is the Minister prepared to give any assurances in this respect?
    Sir J. Anderson: I cannot give specific assurances on such a point, but I thought it would be clear from my answer that the Department have looked sympathetically at this matter, and if there is any matter in respect of which, in view of conditions as they are to-day, some easement is desirable, I am certainly prepared to examine it.

    LIGHTING REGULATIONS, SOUTH WALES AND MONMOUTHSHIRE.
    Sir Reginald Clarryasked the Home Secretary whether he is satisfied with the black-out conditions in the South Wales and Monmouthshire area, especially in regard to lights on roads emanating from motor vehicles, cycles and
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    pedestrians with torches; and whether any lack of adequate precautions in these matters would assist and encourage air raiders?
    Sir J. Anderson: The police in the South Wales and Monmouthshire area have given special attention to the enforcement of the Lighting Regulations, and I am informed that the observance of the Regulations in this area is satisfactory. I have no doubt that the people in South Wales and Monmouthshire are fully alive to the importance of these Regulations, and are aware that any failure to observe them is liable to give assistance to enemy aircraft.
    Mr. James Griffiths: Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that in South Wales, where the roads go uphill and downhill, it often happens that cars coming downhill can be seen for miles away? Is he aware that the satisfaction expressed by those who informed him is not generally felt by the people in that part of the country?
    Sir J. Anderson: I think the hon. Member misunderstood me. What I said was that the police are satisfied that there is a general observance of the Regulations. The point to which the hon. Member referred is a different one. It is that the Regulations, although observed, may involve the showing of lights and be a source of danger. Frankly, in that matter we have to set against the desirability of a general black-out the safety of traffic. The whole matter is constantly under examination, and various possible expedients are under consideration at this moment.
    Mr. Griffiths: Will the right hon. Gentleman examine this matter with regard to South Wales, because it is generally desirable that there should be an examination in view of the circumstances?
    Sir J. Anderson: The matter is being taken into consideration, not only with regard to South Wales, but other parts where the same question arises.
    Sir R. Clarry: Is my right hon. Friend prepared to review the matter and investigate whether more stringent Regulations are desirable?
    Sir J. Anderson: That is what is under review.

    AIR-RAID SHELTERS.
    Mr. Manderasked the Home Secretary to what extent gas curtains have been provided for air-raid shelters; and whether he is aware that in certain cases the police are advising against their installation?
    Sir J. Anderson: My information is that a large majority of local authorities have taken steps to provide gas curtains or hold them ready for installation in public shelters. I am not aware of any opposition having been offered by the police.
    Mr. Mander: If I bring certain cases to my right hon. Friend's attention, will he be good enough to look into them?
    Sir J. Anderson: Perhaps my hon. Friend will be good enough to do so.
    Lieut.-Colonel Sir Thomas Mooreasked the Home Secretary whether he will consider allocating a part of the public air-raid shelters to accommodate persons who are accompanied by their dogs in order to avoid danger to such individuals who refuse to leave their pets outside the shelter?
    Sir J. Anderson: While I fully sympathise with the feelings of dog-owners, the difficulties in the way of admitting animals to public shelters are so serious that I do not feel that I could properly recommend local authorities to adopt the arrangement which my hon. and gallant Friend proposes.
    Mr. Ammon: Can this be extended to the people who are giving temporary refuge to those who are dehoused? A number of people are complaining that people are taking their animals, and are causing a good deal of annoyance.
    Sir J. Anderson: I will consult my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health.
    Mr. Ellis Smithasked the Minister for Home Security whether he can make a statement on the provision of air-raid shelter accommodation and on the urgent need for supplies of material for the construction of shelter?
    Sir J. Anderson: I do not think I can say more than this, that it has been made clear to local authorities that they are expected to press on as rapidly as possible with the provision of shelter by means of one or other of the various expedients of which they have been given particulars,
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    and that the Department for their part have been doing, and will continue to do, everything in their power to ensure supplies of necessary materials subject to the competing claims of other public services. I am sending my hon. Friend copies of recent circulars on the subject.
    Mr. Smith: Will the Minister see that immediate and energetic action is taken in all areas to deal with this matter where it is required?
    Sir J. Anderson: That would be my desire, subject to the difficulties, of which, I am sure, hon. Members have some realisation.
    Sir Percy Harris: Will the right hon. Gentleman see that priority is given to cement? Is he not aware that many shelters are useless, because of the absence of cement, to provide the necessary roofs, although the walls are standing; and that applies all over London?
    Sir J. Anderson: I am sure my right hon. Friend will appreciate that so far as the competing claims for cement are concerned, all I can do is to press vigorously, as I have done, the requirements of Civil Defence, but I must accept the decisions which may be taken by the appropriate authorities in the matter.
    Mr. Woodburn: In view of the fact that some people in London have decided on tube stations as deep shelters, could not the Minister make use of some of the unemployed miners to make excavations and enlarge the scope of the existing stations?
    Sir J. Anderson: I do not think that would be practicable.
    Major Milner: Is the Minister aware that while many shelters and tube stations are very much overcrowded, there is a vast capacity quite unused, and would it not be very helpful if the right hon. Gentleman would instruct the police and the air-raid precaution services to endeavour to direct or advise people to those shelters which at present, as I have seen for myself, are largely unoccupied?
    Sir J. Anderson: My hon. and gallant Friend is perfectly correct in what he says. The difficulties in the present situation have been aggravated because of the tendency of people to flock to certain types of shelter which they mis-

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    takenly regard as offering better protection. I am doing everything possible, through the police, the local authorities and the air-raid precaution services, to ensure better distribution to the shelters, a better use of the available accommodation and a closer regard to the very important principle of dispersal in this matter.
    Mr. Pethick-Lawrence: Would the right hon. Gentleman consider the advice which was offered on the B.B.C. wireless in this matter?
    Sir J. Anderson: I will consider that point.
    Sir John Jarvis: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that most of the unused capacity has no seating or lavatory accommodation?
    Sir J. Anderson: Really, that is not so.
    Mr. Gallacher: Would the Minister devise some kind of shelter to allow women and children especially to get some sleep at night?
    Sir J. Anderson: That point goes beyond the question of shelters, but it is a very important matter, and I will give some consideration to it.

    AIR-RAID DAMAGE (SIGHTSEERS).
    Mr. Keelingasked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that crowds assembling near places on which bombs or aeroplanes have fallen, have impeded the work of civil defence and other services; and whether he will make such assembly an offence?
    Sir J. Anderson: In the first few days of intensive air attack the work of the Civil Defence Services was impeded to some extent by crowds of sightseers, and it became necessary for me to appeal to the public to refrain from visiting places where air-raid damage had occurred. The public have responded to that appeal, and I do not think it necessary to take any action on the lines suggested in the second part of the Question.

    POLICE DOMICILIARY VISITS.
    Mr. G. Straussasked the Home Secretary whether he will take steps to stop the widespread searches that are being made in the houses of respectable citizens, and the removal of their books and papers without adequate excuse or reason?
    Sir J. Anderson: In time of war it is necessary that the police should be armed with wide powers of search, and, if there are grounds for suspecting some person of acts prejudicial to the public safety, the fact that he has hitherto enjoyed a good reputation is not a reason for refraining from inquiries, which must sometimes include a search of his premises and examination of his papers. Even if the result of the search is to negative the suspicions, it may be right that the search should have been made, if, in fact, there were grounds for such suspicion. In some cases it is not easy for the police to judge whether the information which reaches them ought to be treated as a ground for suspicion, and I appreciate the hon. Member's desire that errors of judgment in assessing or interpreting such information shall not lead to misuse of the police powers. Whenever complaints are made to me, I cause immediate inquiry to be made, with a view to satisfying myself whether the police had reasonable grounds for their action, and if my hon. Friend knows of cases which have not already been brought to my notice, I shall be glad if he will send me particulars. In fairness to the police it should, however, be said that, in many cases, inquiry shows they are carrying out with discretion a task in which the avoidance of grounds for complaint is necessarily extremely difficult.
    Mr. Strauss: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, in some of these searches, the police appear to behave quite unreasonably? They take away the minutes of local Labour parties, books written by Members of His Majesty's Government, and, on one occasion, a book written by John Stuart Mill.
    Sir J. Anderson: There have been cases into which I have made inquiry, and I have taken the action which seemed to be appropriate.

    FOOD AND REST CENTRES (CIRCULARS).
    Mr. Graham Whiteasked the Minister of Health whether he can now say in what manner he proposes to make available to Members the circulars issued to local authorities concerning food and rest centres and billeting for the homeless, and a statement on the present situation?
    Mr. M. MacDonald: Yes, Sir. In view of the advisability of saving the use of paper, it is undesirable to send copies of

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    these circulars to all hon. Members, whether they wish to have them or not, but if hon. Members who wish to have copies of these documents will communicate with me, I will gladly send them a set.

    ALIENS (FILES).
    Major Milnerasked the Home Secretary how many files relating to aliens have been mislaid or lost?
    Sir J. Anderson: There are about 750,000 of these files, and there are several sections of the Aliens Branch of the Home Office, situated in different localities, to which files have to be sent from time to time. In these circumstances it would be surprising if it did not happen on occasion that a file is not readily available, but I understand that remarkably few are mislaid or lost, though I am not in a position to give exact statistics.
    Major Milner: Is it not a fact that some hundreds, if not thousands, of files are lost and cannot be found? What is the position of the aliens to whom those files apply?
    Sir J. Anderson: I should be greatly surprised if the numbers are anything like so large as my hon. and gallant Friend suggests. If a file is lost and cannot be found, the particulars have to be reconstructed from other records to which reference can be made, such as those in the hands of the police.
    Mr. Glenvil Hall: When a file is taken out cannot a slip be put in its place stating where it has gone? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this simple practice does not obtain at the Home Office?
    Sir J. Anderson: I am not prepared to deal with points of office procedure. I am perfectly satisfied that those who are responsible for handling what is an extremely difficult and technical matter are doing everything possible to avoid the inconveniences that must necessarily arise from the enormous increase in the correspondence and the unfortunate fact that the staff have had to be dispersed.
    Mr. Pethick-Lawrence: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in certain cases of aliens who were arrested when the matter was in the hands of the War Office, passports and other documents were taken
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    away and have been lost; and that being a serious matter to the aliens affected, will the right hon. Gentleman consider what he can do with regard to it?
    Sir J. Anderson: I will, certainly, but the right hon. Gentleman will appreciate that that is rather a different point.

    INTERNEES.
    Mr. Manderasked the Home Secretary whether he will consider introducing a new category for the release of internees of persons who came to this country at an early age, have lived here the greater part of their lives, know no foreign language, and are of friendly record and association?
    Sir J. Anderson: As regards Italians, it is the policy not to intern those with 20 years' residence against whom nothing unfavourable is known. As regards Germans and Austrians, the question whether long residence could properly be treated as a ground for release has been carefully considered, and I have been in consultation with the Advisory Committee on the subject; but, as my hon. Friend will recognise, it is in many cases more difficult to feel confidence in those with long residence than in those who came here comparatively recently as refugees. A general policy of releasing those with long residence against whom nothing is known could not be justified; but there are individual cases in which long residence can properly be treated as one of the factors to be taken into account when application is made for release under Category 18 on grounds of special hardship.
    Mr. Mender: In the case of Italians who are interned and have been here more than 20 years, do I understand that release can take place?
    Sir J. Anderson: Italians who have been resident here for more than 20 years have been interned only if in the particular cases there was some specific reason for that course.
    Mr. G. Strauss: What body or organisation will consider the case of Italians who have been here for 20 years and apparently have had no association with Fascist organisations?
    Sir J. Anderson: I thought that it was known that I had set up a special tribunal under the chairmanship of Sir Percy

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    Loraine. I have arranged with the tribunal to sit in divisions if necessary, in order to cover the ground as rapidly as possible
    Miss Rathbone: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is a large group of people whom he doubtless included among Germans and Austrians, who came in early childhood from Galician Poland at the time when it was part of Austria? These are peculiarly hard cases, and I have a list of 50 in London who have been resident in this country for 20 years.
    Sir J. Anderson: It is difficult for me to deal with a particular question of that kind adequately in a reply. The position is that the Asquith Committee, in which, I am sure, hon. Members have complete confidence, have a perfectly free hand to review the whole position. I have specially brought to the notice of that committee this very class of people who are long residents, and I will give the closest and most sympathetic consideration to any recommendation which the committee make.
    Mr. Edmund Harvey: Will consideration be given to the case of Stateless persons who were in early life resident in Bohemia and are neither Austrian, German nor Czech, but who are interned?
    Sir J. Anderson: Where those persons are interned it has been in every case after consideration of the facts, but if my hon. Frind will let me know of the particular category he has in mind, I will look into it.
    Major Milnerasked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that notification was received on 29th June by the mother of Werner Jablonski, residing in Leeds, that orders had been given for his release and why, notwithstanding repeated representations by the Member for South-East Leeds, such release has not taken place; and what is the present address of the youth in question and, if he has been evacuated overseas, on what date and on what grounds?
    Sir J. Anderson: Authority for this boy's release was given to the War Office on 29th June, but I regret that the instructions did not get through in time to prevent his embarkation for
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    Canada, to which Dominion he sailed on 4th July. Arrangements are being made for his return to this country if he is willing to return.
    Major Milner: Having regard to the fact that this matter has been represented to the right hon. Gentleman since the beginning of July, why has it taken until the middle of September, when I put down this Question, before any action was taken? Does it not show that the whole administration of the Home Office in this matter is in chaos?
    Sir J. Anderson: It shows nothing of the kind. The Home Office took the responsibility for this matter on 5th August, and it is well known, for no secret has been made of the fact, that the records in regard to those who were sent to Canada in rather a hurry were in a state of some confusion. That has no bearing at all on Home Office administration.
    Major Milner: Has it not a bearing on War Office administration? One Department or another must be at fault.
    Sir J. Anderson: I do not answer for other Departments.
    Major Milnerasked the Home Secretary how many aliens who have broadcast to enemy countries in favour of the allied cause have been interned; in respect of how many have representations for release been received from the British Broadcasting Corporation, and how many have been granted; and on what grounds men who have thus demonstrated their anti-Nazi views and friendly attitude towards the Allied cause continue interned?
    Sir J. Anderson: So far as I have been able to ascertain, representations have been received from the British Broadcasting Corporation in respect of two such members of their regular staff, and both of them have been released.
    Major Milner: Have not representations been made in respect of other members of the staff, perhaps not members of the permanent staff, but men who have broadcast in the Allied interest to Germany and who are now in internment and for whose release the B.B.C. have pressed directly or indirectly in this country's interest? If the right hon. Gentleman does not know of such cases, will he look into them, if I give him names?
    Sir J. Anderson: I will certainly have the matter looked into, but I have given the House all the information in my possession at the moment.
    Mr. Wedgwoodasked the Home Secretary whether any present or prospective category for release can meet the case of David Shapeero, aged 50, resident at Leicester since the age of 10, an optician there, now interned in the Isle of Man?
    Sir J. Anderson: I am making inquiries and will communicate with my right hon. Friend as soon as possible.

    AIR-RAID CASUALTIES (NOTIFICATION).
    Captain Pluggeasked the Home Secretary what action is taken by the police in the case of civilian victims of air raids to notify the next-of-kin who may not live in the town where the raid takes place?
    Sir J. Anderson: When a person injured in an air raid is admitted to hospital, a written notification is sent by the hospital to the next-of-kin or other relative named by the injured person. Similarly, in the case of a person killed whose body is removed to a public mortuary, a notification is sent by the local authority to the next-of-kin. In addition, special arrangements have been made in the Metropolitan Police District for the police to notify the relatives of casualties as soon as possible after a raid. All these arrangements apply whether or not the next-of-kin lives in the town where the raid has taken place.

    AIR RAID WARNINGS (PROVISION SHOPS).
    Captain Pluggeasked the Home Secretary whether he has ordered the closing of food shops in London when air raid warnings are given; and what provision in that case is made for staffs of firms to obtain food?
    Sir J. Anderson: The answer to the first part of the Question is in the negative. The second part does not, therefore, arise.

    WINDOW PROTECTION.
    Mr. Woodburnasked the Home Secretary whether, arising from the experiences of recent air raids, he can inform the public which method of protecting windows has proved most efficacious,
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    brown paper strips, window glue, textile netting or wire netting?
    Mr. W. H. Greenasked the Home Secretary whether, in view of the danger of flying glass splinters during air raids, he will consider the advisability of further advising the public as to the efficacy of certain preparations claiming to obviate these dangers; is he aware that of the various solutions advertised some have now given irrefutable proof of their effectiveness; and, further, that at least one of these preparations has actually been the means of saving life?
    Sir J. Anderson: Advice on this subject has been summarised in a pamphlet, now in the Press, which will be issued shortly to wardens' posts and for general display by local authorities. If my hon. Friend is referring to liquid preparations, I must add that they vary greatly in effectiveness; but for the guidance of the public I have arranged that a list shall be kept of preparations approved by the Department of Scientific and Industrial Research, and manufacturers of approved preparations will be entitled to state that their preparations have been so approved.
    Mr. Woodburn: As a preliminary, can the Minister in regard to the other part of the Question give an indication whether ordinary brown paper squares are efficacious, or whether textile protection is better?
    Sir J. Anderson: I think that the hon. Member must have overlooked some answers I gave on the subject not very long ago. Strips of textile material, pasted at not too great a distance apart, are considered effective, and netting or fabric, with adhesive material, which can be used to cover the whole surface of windows, is also effective. Strips of brown paper are not found to be so effective as either of these methods.
    Mr. Thorne: Has the right hon. Gentleman had any experience in regard to this matter? I have, and I have come to the conclusion that nothing but iron framings in front of the window will stop splinters. I have had my windows boarded up, and splinters have gone through the boards.
    Mr. G. Strauss: Will the pamphlet to which the right hon. Gentleman referred contain any advice on whether windows should be left open or shut?
    Sir J. Anderson: I am not sure on that point. It is well known, I think, that there are obvious advantages in leaving windows open. My windows in the Home Office were blown in last night, and some of those left open came through unscathed.
    Mr. Keeling: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider publishing the substance of the pamphlet in to-morrow's Press?
    Sir J. Anderson: I will consider that point.
    Mr. Mander: Will a copy be placed in the Vote Office?
    Sir J. Anderson indicated assent.

    AIR-RAID EXPERIENCE.
    Mr. Woodburnasked the Home Secretary whether he will take steps to make known to doctors, wardens and others attached to civil defence the lessons learned from recent air raids; whether he will consider holding regional conferences with medical officers of health and others responsible for area organisation to hear from those with first-hand experience the problems which have actually arisen and how best to deal with them?
    Sir J. Anderson: As regards the first part of the Question, I would refer my hon. Friend to the reply given on 20th August to a Question by the Member for Holland with Boston (Mr. Butcher). As regards the second part, arrangements already exist for securing the necessary contact with local officials in areas which have had first-hand experience of raids, and in view of the heavy pressure upon these officials at the present time I do not think that I should be justified in asking them to attend at a conference at this juncture.
    Mr. Woodburn: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that doctors and other officials in Scotland are very worried about this question, and allege that they have applied to the Home Office for guidance and that their appeals have not been dealt with, perhaps owing to the reasons of pressure? They are very anxious to know what has been the experience of doctors in handling the casualties in London areas. Is the right hon. Gentleman willing to consider accepting the help of Members of Parliament who are prepared to study the matter and dur-
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    ing the time the House is not sitting, to give their assistance in communicating information to these people?
    Sir J. Anderson: I will ask my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to see the hon. Member, to find out what can be done.

    ROLL OF HONOUR.
    Mr. Parkerasked the Home Secretary whether a Roll of Honour can be issued at regular intervals giving the names of Auxiliary Fire Service and other air-raid precautions workers who have been killed or wounded on service or who are missing and believed killed?
    Sir J. Anderson: I propose to adopt the principle of a Roll of Honour, and the details of such a scheme are now under immediate consideration.

  SCOTLAND.

    GERMAN AND AUSTRIAN ALIENS.
    Mr. Pethick-Lawrenceasked the Home Secretary when the Jamieson Committee for dealing with German and Austrian aliens in Scotland last met?
    Sir J. Anderson: The last meeting of this Committee was held on 10th September. It will be meeting again shortly.

    OLD AGE PENSIONS.
    Mr. Gallacherasked the Secretary of State for Scotland how many applications for supplementary grants have been made by old age pensioners to the Cowdenbeath assistance tribunal since the regulations came into force; how many of such applications have been refused; how many have been paid the maximum scale; and how many have received a reduced rate?
    The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Westwood): In the Assistance Board's administrative area of Cowdenbeath there were, up to 16th August, 1,542 applications for supplementary pensions; in 1,163 cases, supplementary pensions were awarded, and in 379 cases pensions were either refused or the applications were withdrawn. Information as to the amounts granted in the area is not available.
    Mr. Gallacher: Is there no way in which the Minister can make the information available, because it is important that

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    Members should understand just how many people are receiving full supplementary benefit and how many are receiving very small sums?
    Mr. Westwood: So many duties devolve upon those who are responsible for administration at the present time that it is wise not to press for things which may be unnecessary. If it is found, however, that these things can be made available without exceptional trouble, I certainly will consider the point which has been mentioned. I will look into the matter, and see whether excessive work will be caused by making the information available.
    Mr. Gallacherasked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether he is aware that the Cowdenbeath assistance tribunal have refused Mrs. Elspeth Anderson, an old age pensioner depending solely on her pension, any supplementary grant, on the grounds that she is living with her daughter, although Mrs. Anderson pays rent to her daughter, who is not in a position fully to maintain her; whether he is also aware that the tribunal decided that Mrs. Anderson's needs were 3d. per week in excess of her resources, but that as this sum was so small there was no need to grant any supplementary allowance at all; and whether he will take steps to ensure that more generous treatment is meted out to old people coming before this and similar tribunals?
    Mr. Westwood: I understand that, in the view of the officer of the Assistance Board, the pensioner was a member of her daughter's household, which consists of the two adults and two children. The total income of the household is £4 a week and the rent 7s. 4d. It was decided that, under the regulations, no supplementary pension was payable, and this decision was confirmed by the appeal tribunal. Under the Act, I have no power to interfere with the findings of appeal tribunals or to issue directions to them.
    Mr. Gallacher: Is not the Minister aware that this is a typical case of a married woman with two children who took in her aged mother, that the mother contributes her share and there is a common household? Is it not clear that the daughter in this case is not actually responsible for maintaining her mother?
    Mr. Westwood: I have tried to give the facts in connection with this case. Mrs. Anderson is a widow of 69 and has lived for the last eight years with her daughter. I do not want to go into the details now. The responsibility is entirely one for the Assistance Board. If hon. Members can bring to the notice of the Secretary of State for Scotland or the Minister of Health information to show that the intention of Parliament is not being carried out, we will look into the matter to see that that intention is carried out, as I have already pointed out we have done in this case. I have no power to interfere with the appeal tribunals or to issue directions to them.

    HOUSE OF COMMONS (BROADCASTS).
    Mr. Ellis Smithasked the Prime Minister whether he will consider, or appoint a committee to consider, the advisability of broadcasting the proceedings of the House of Commons; and, while the question is receiving consideration, will he make arrangements for important statements made in the House of Commons to be broadcast?
    The Lord Privy Seal (Mr. Attlee): The question of broadcasting proceedings of the House of Commons has never commended itself to the House, and I do not consider that any useful purpose would be served by appointing a committee such as is suggested by my hon. Friend. The question, however, of electrically recording the Prime Minister's war statements on particular occasions with a view to subsequent broadcasting has been considered. Such an innovation, however, would require the general assent of the House, which so far has not been obtained.
    Mr. Smith: This is a big step in the right direction. Will my right hon. Friend consider consulting the House as soon as possible on this question?
    Captain Plugge: Is my right hon. Friend aware that the present British broadcastaing system is totally inadequate to perform this purpose? Is he further aware that it shows the lowest index figure of individual programmes per thousand inhabitants for medium and long-wave stations compared with any other country in Europe, even including

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    Portugal, Greece and Yugoslavia? Will he adopt the recommendation of the Ullswater Committee for the appointment of a Minister of Broadcasting in this House?
    Mr. Wedgwood: Will the right hon. Gentleman take an early opportunity of consulting the House in regard to broadcasts of the Prime Minister's occasional statements in this House? Is he aware that it would have an immense effect in America and all over the world if such statements could be broadcast straight from here instead of repetitions of his speeches being made under different circumstances?
    Captain Piugge: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the recommendations of the Ullswater Committee, on which he himself sat, for the appointment of a Minister of Broadcasting in this House?
    Mr. Attlee: That is another question. In answer to my right hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Mr. Wedgwood), he will realise that there are difficulties with regard to the length of the speech and the available broadcasting time, and there are very different opinions in this House as to the effect on proceedings in this House. It would not be the kind of discussion we have to-day among Members if it was to be a public statement to the whole world. These are matters which require very careful consideration.
    Mr. Wedgwood: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the broadcast could take place without the rest of the House or even the Prime Minister being aware of it; if the microphone was placed at the Box on the Table?

    GREAT BRITAIN AND FRANCE.
    Mr. Stokesasked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the approval of the policy of leasing bases for a term of 99 years to the United States of America and that of closer co-operation between the United States of America and the British Empire, he will give an assurance that, before any union of the kind proposed to France is put forward, he will give an opportunity for the fullest possible discussion in this House?
    Mr. Attlee: My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is prepared to give an assurance that, if ever such a far-reaching scheme were put forward, the House would be given every opportunity of discussing it.

    POST-WAR RECONSTRUCTION.
    Mr. David Adamsasked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that, in view of the intense social dislocation that may be expected at the close of this war, he would, even now, do well to set up a qualified body to draw up a scheme of government, local government and industrial action and to make it as complete as possible; and whether such action towards a Ministry of Reconstruction has yet received his favourable consideration?
    Mr. Attlee: As regards the possibility of setting up a Ministry of Reconstruction, I cannot add anything to the reply which I gave on 6th August to my hon. Friend the Member for Southampton (Mr. Craven-Ellis). So far as the larger questions involved are concerned, the importance of these is fully realised, and active steps are being taken by the Government to give them the fullest consideration.
    Mr. Adams: Is there a possibility of some report or public statement being made upon the subject by the Prime Minister or the Government?
    Mr. Attlee: Not immediately. These matters w ill require a great deal of consideration, and the Government are very heavily pressed at the present time by the immediate exigencies.
    Sir Francis Fremantle: Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that many of the steps which are being taken, or should be taken regarding shelters, demolition and so on have great bearing on the future planning and really require present consideration to see whether they cannot be usefully worked in?
    Mr. Attlee: That is one of the matters which will be kept closely in mind—that is to say, repercussions on the future of steps which have to be taken now.
    Mr. Thorne: Are any arrangements being made for the reconstruction of houses that are demolished, and do the Government intend to pay any kind of insurance?
    Mr. Attlee: I must have notice of that Question and perhaps the hon. Member will put it on the Order Paper.

  AGRICULTURE.

    CREDITS.
    Mr. Gledhillasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer the total amount of public money lent to credit-worthy borrowers under the Agricultural Credits Act since 1922; and how much of that total has been written off as lost to the taxpayer?
    The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Sir Kingsley Wood): Under Section 1 of the Agricultural Credits Act, 1923, the Public Works Loan Commissioners advanced £4,766,119, of which £18,700 has been remitted, and £33,566 written off from the assets of the Local Loans Fund by Parliament.

    WEEDS (DESTRUCTION).
    Mr. De la Bèreasked the Minister of Agriculture whether notwithstanding the publicity given to the injurious effect of weeds upon the output from farms, and the failure of the county and local authorities adequately to cope with weeds, he will bring to the attention of all county war agricultural executive committees the necessity of taking immediate action to ensure that they exercise their powers, so that immediate steps are taken to curtail this nuisance?
    Mr. Munro (Lord of the Treasury): I have been asked to reply. As my right hon. Friend informed my hon. Friend in his reply to a similar Question on 25th July, he has already drawn the attention of war agricultural executive committees to their powers in this matter.

    FARM SURVEY.
    Mr. De la Bèreasked the Minister of Agriculture whether the farm survey to ascertain the potentialities for increased food production is yet ready for publication; and why his Department did not initiate this survey in 1938 and complete it 12 months ago to enable the agricultural industry, without the loss of a whole year, to begin to increase food production by making the better and earlier arrangements as recommended in lines 4 to 8 of paragraph 43 of the Tenth Report of the Committee on National Expenditure?
    Mr. Munro: I have been asked to reply. The answer to the first part of the Question is in the negative. As regards the second, the ploughing-up campaign of 1939 was in fact based on a statistical survey made before the outbreak of war.

    LIMITATION OF SUPPLIES ORDER.
    Mr. Gledhillasked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that the introduction of the Purchase Tax will have practically the same effect as the Limitation of Supplies Order; and whether he will therefore cancel the latter Order?
    The Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade (Major Lloyd George): No, Sir. I would refer to the reply given on 13th August by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to a Question by the hon. Member for Frome (Mrs. Tate), in which he explained that the objects of the two measures do not cover the same field.
    Mr. Gledhill: Is it not highly likely that a continuation of the Limitation of Supplies Order in addition to the Purchase Tax will cause heavy unemployment, and would it not be wise for the Government to do a little thinking before that happens?
    Major Lloyd George: The thinking was done beforehand, and the Government are keeping a very close eye on any possible effects upon employment. It is obvious that the two Measures have different objects, and it is quite possible that while a limitation of supplies might be achieved to a certain extent by a tax, the object of the tax is a different one.
    Sir Herbert Williams: Is it not the case that up to the present the Limitation of Supplies Order has done far more harm than good?
    Major Lloyd George: I entirely disagree with that view.

    INDUSTRIAL DESIGN RESEARCH.
    Mr. Ellis Smithasked the President of the Board of Trade by whom the inquiry is being made into industrial design and research, and, in view of the importance of this matter to the export trade, will he consider the need for a

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    comprehensive investigation to be conducted in co-operation with the Board of Education and in consultation with the Trades Union Congress, the Governing Body of the National Register, the Society of Industrial Artists, the Faculty of the Rural Districts Institutes and other representative organisations, and that they be asked to report as soon as possible?
    Major Lloyd George: I understand that the National Register of Industrial Art Designers has put forward suggestions as to industrial design research with particular reference to the export trade. These suggestions are being examined by the committee set up by my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour to consider the Unemployment of Artists in War-time and by the Export Council, and I should prefer to await their conclusions on the subject. If the other organisations mentioned by my hon. Friend wish to put forward any suggestions on this subject, I am sure that the committee and the Export Council would gladly consider them.

    FOOD SUPPLIES (SPECIAL BISCUIT).
    Mr. Manderasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Food whether he will consider the advisability of arranging for the production of a biscuit containing the minimum daily requirements of each of the 10 most important vitamins, together with such minerals as calcium, iron and copper for distribution to the public on very reduced terms?
    Mr. Munro: I have been asked to reply. My Noble Friend does not consider that the introduction of a special biscuit such as my hon. Friend suggests is necessary at the present time, but the proposal will he given further consideration should circumstances change.
    Mr. Mander: Will my hon. Friend find out whether the Minister has consulted or will consult his scientific Advisory Committee, if he has one, on this subject?
    Mr. Munro: I am afraid that I can add nothing to the answer.
    Mr. Mander: Will my hon. Friend be good enough to pass on to his Noble Friend the suggestion I have made?
    Sir H. Williams: Will the hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the first sample will be presented to the hon. Member for East Wolverhampton (Mr. Mander)?

    IRON AND STEEL (IMPORTS, HANDLING).
    Mr. Ralph Ethertonasked the Minister of Supply whether he is aware that established shipping and other companies who normally handled continental imported iron are having to dismiss many of their employés, particularly those employed at London wharves, because the Iron and Steel Federation are employing firms not previously in this business who pay very cheap rates, in some cases below the union scale; and whether he will take steps to avoid such hardships to workers and to implement the policy of the Government to direct trade through normal channels?
    The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Supply (Mr. Harold Macmillan): My right hon. Friend's attention has not previously been called to the complaint to which my hon. Friend refers, but if my hon. Friend cares to furnish me with particulars of the cases which he has in mind, I will certainly see that inquiries are made.
    Mr. Etherton: I will furnish my hon. Friend with the necessary particulars.

    MOTOR VEHICLES (CAMOUFLAGE).
    Mr. de Rothschildasked the Minister of Transport whether it is proposed to issue definite instructions to civilians with regard to the type of camouflage which should be adopted for private motor cars?
    The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport (Mr. Montague): The order provides that, as from 23rd September, no unauthorised person shall use a vehicle so painted, or otherwise treated, as to cause it to resemble a camouflaged vehicle in the service of the Armed Forces. My right hon. Friend has already issued general advice on what is to be avoided and what is permissible, and I do not think that there should be any doubt, but I take this opportunity of repeating that disruptive camouflage or jazz patterns should not be used and that matt surfaces in dark neutral shades, other than the greys and khaki adopted by the Services, are recommended.
    Mr. de Rothschild: Is the hon. Member aware that the Ministry of Transport are perfectly useless to civilians? They are not giving civilians any indications whatever. The only indications given are negative; no help is given to the many motorists in this country who want to camouflage their vehicles to the best of their ability.
    Mr. Montague: There is no desire at all to give specific orders in respect of this kind of camouflage. There is a recommendation in reference to matt surfaces, and that is all that is necessary and all that the Minister desires to do.
    Mr. de Rothschild: Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that the Ministry urged motorists to camouflage their vehicles, and some of them started to camouflage their vehicles in the military style, and that was stopped, and thereupon the Ministry of Transport issued these purely negative orders?
    Mr. Thorne: Is there any possibility of preventing white vehicles running around? I can give an instance of what happened close to my house. A white vehicle was standing there, and a bomb dropped right opposite. That is a fact.
    Mr. Montague: I think my answer covers that point, but I will look into that or any other point brought to my notice.
    Mr. Loftus: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Mayor of Lowestoft has twice camouflaged his car and on each occasion subsequent orders have been issued condemning the methods?
    Mr. Montague: My answer has reference only to Order 1496. It is the last order on the subject. I think my answer has been perfectly clear.
    Mr. de Rothschild: It is not the answer that I require. It is not an answer to the Question I put. My Question asked whether it was proposed to issue definite instructions to civilians with regard to camouflaging cars, and the hon. Member has given us no directions at all.
    Mr. Montague: I should think the hon. Member must realise the practical impossibility of giving precise instructions which would apply to every type of private car. We make recommendations. They are clear and explicit so far as they go. We have no desire to impose—beyond the restrictions in the order itself—any particular form of camouflage.

    TROOPS (RAILWAY STATION FACILITIES, MANCHESTER).
    Mr. Ralph Ethertonasked the Secretary of State for War what arrangements have now been made for the comfort of troops using the London Midland and Scottish Railway Company's London Road station at Manchester, particularly in regard to a canteen in the station itself, near the platforms; and how many notice spaces and of what size have now been made available at London Road station to indicate the whereabouts of the various voluntary canteens and hostels in the town for troops?
    The Financial Secretary to the War Office (Mr. Richard Law): There is a Young Men's Christian Association canteen at the end of the station approach. There is also a rest room in the station, and steps are being taken to have it furnished with collapsible beds and comfortable chairs. In addition, cloakroom, washing and lavatory accommodation is available, free of charge. Two rooms belonging to the London and North Eastern Railway, which are adjacent to the station main entrance, are about to be adapted to canteen purposes. As regards the last part of the Question, I am informed that notices have been put up to indicate the whereabouts of the various canteens, etc., in the town, but I have no details as to the number or size.
    Mr. Etherton: In regard to the notices, is not the Minister aware that, as recently as last week, there was only one notice at this railway station and it was of very small size, directing attention to canteens in Manchester, whereas there was an enormous number of advertisements of the London Midland and Scottish Railway directing attention to various resorts and asking people to go to various holiday places?
    Mr. Glenvil Hall: Will the Minister consider whether more canteens cannot be provided at the stations, because the facilities are pretty bad?
    Mr. Law: If the hon. Member will read the reply I gave, I think he will see that more canteen facilities are being provided.
    Mr. De la Bère: The all important point is, bigger and brighter notices.

    SUEZ CANAL COMPANY.
    Mr. De la Bèreasked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that the only opportunity afforded for discussion on the Government's future appointments of directors of the Suez Canal Company is limited to a Consolidated Fund Debate, he will, in future, render it possible for Parliament to consider these Government appointments, either by making them by Order-in-Council, or by including in the Treasury or Board of Trade vote the income on the Government's Suez Canal shares, even if no money is voted for the directors by Parliament?
    Mr. Attlee: In view of the fact that there are opportunities other than that mentioned by the hon. Member of raising the matter referred to, I do not think that any change such as those suggested would be convenient or desirable.
    Mr. De la Bère: My right hon. Friend will appreciate that it is desirable that close examination and a good deal of thought should be given to all these appointments in future, and I am sure he will agree with me in my desire to see the condition improved.

    ROYAL SOCIETY (CO-OPERATION WITH GOVERNMENT).
    Sir H. Morris-Jones (for Mr. E. J. Williams)asked the Prime Minister whether he will consider the formation of a whole-time scientific committee from the Royal Society to investigate every portion of our war effort from comprehensive points of view, to propose new ways of waging war and to have direct contact with the Cabinet to promulgate its views and emphasise its recommendations?
    Mr. Attlee: Representations which have been received from the Royal Society as to closer co-operation with the Government are under active consideration.

SECRET SESSION.
At the conclusion of Questions for Oral Answer,
Notice taken, that strangers were present.
Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER, pursuant to Standing Order No. 89, put the Question, "That strangers be ordered to withdraw."
Question agreed to.
Strangers withdrew accordingly.
The following record of the subsequent proceedings is taken from the Votes and Proceedings:
Resolved, "That the remainder of this day's Sitting be a Secret Session."—(Captain Margesson.)

ADJOURNMENT.
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn."—(Captain Margesson.)
And it being the hour appointed for the interruption of business, the Motion for the Adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put.
Resolved, "That this House do now adjourn."—(Mr. Thomas.)
[The following Report of the Proceedings in Secret Session was issued under the authority of Mr. SPEAKER:
"The House went into Secret Session, and the Debate on the aerial bombardment of the country was continued. Members raised points in connection with transport and other subjects, and the Minister of Transport made a statement."]