§
Lords Amendment: In page 4, leave out from the beginning of line 32 to the end of line 23 on page 5, and insert:
shall not be retained interests unless the Commission so direct.Where a direction might be given both as respects interests arising under a lease and as respects interests arising under a lease derived out of that lease, a direction shall not be given as respects the former unless a direction has been given or is to be given as respects the latter also.
§ 8.29 p.m.
§ The Attorney-GeneralI beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
These new Sub-sections, although they occupy a good deal of space, are simply a redrafting of the original Clause 5. They do not alter its effect, but make it more intelligible and also slightly more concise.
§ 8.30 p.m.
§ Sir S. CrippsIt is a little difficult to follow exactly the effect of these redrafted Sub-sections, and I would ask the Attorney-General to assist the House by giving us some information on one point. The original Sub-section (3) of Clause 5 read as follows:
For the purposes of this Section a lease shall not be deemed to be a coal-mining lease unless a person carrying on the business of coal-mining has a substantial beneficial interest in the exercise of the rights thereby conferred.Clause 5 did not cover in any part of it the case of a lease where the person holding the lease was not a person carrying on the business of coal-mining; it 493 was limited to leases held by persons who were working mines. But, in the new Sub-section (2), one finds it laid down that certain interests shall not be retained interests unless the Commission so directs, and among those are:(b) interests arising under a coal-mining lease where neither the lessee nor any person claiming under him is a person carrying on the business of coal-mining and having a substantial beneficial interest in the evercise of the rights conferred by the lease.It will be observed that, whereas the original Sub-section (3) of Clause 5 excluded every case where the direct lessee was not a person carrying on a coal-mining business, a new Sub-section (2, b) would include a lease in which the sub-lessee from the lessee was a person carrying on a coal-mining business; that is to say, it includes within the purview of Clause 5 as retained interests cases which were not there before—cases where it is the sub-lessee, and not the lessee, who is the person having a direct interest or carrying on the business of coal-mining. It appears to me, therefore, that the effect of the Amendment is to make more retained interests. The Attorney-General shakes his head. I agree that it is a matter of difficulty, but I have looked at it more than once in the time I have had available, and, although I think the difficulty arises from the fact that there are three negatives, and it is a little difficult to be clear how far they cancel one another out, it struck me that the effect of the substitution was to increase the area of retained interests.I gather, from what the Attorney-General has said, that that is not the intention, but that the intention is to leave the matter exactly as it was when it left this House before. It was then, I am bound to say perfectly clear, because the old Sub-section (3) laid down quite plainly what leases were excluded from the operation of the Clause. As redrafted it certainly does not make that clear. It may be that in the ultimate result the definition comes to the same thing, but, as far as I have been able to analyse it and discover what it means, it seems to me to be a new and different definition, because of the words:
nor any person claiming under him,that is to say, under the lessee. Those words were not in the original Subsection (3) of Clause 5. The original subsection 494 (3), if it had incorporated what is now in Sub-section (2, b) would have read in this way:For the purposes of this Section a lease shall not be deemed to be a coal-mining lease unless a person carrying on the business of coal-mining or a person claiming under him as a substantial beneficial interest in the exercise of the rights thereby conferred.The Clause as it left this House would, therefore, exclude an intermediate lessee who did not carry on a coal-mining business, whereas now it includes an intermediate lessee who does not carry on a coal-mining business. I should be much obliged if the Attorney-General would elucidate that matter for the benefit of the House, and explain to us exactly how the new Sub-sections cover the same area as the old ones. It strikes me that this is another case of an alteration in favour of the landowner or the royalty owner.
§ 8.34 p.m.
§ Mr. TinkerI understand that this Clause is merely a re-drafting of the words sent from this House. If that be so, one has to ask whether we have not intelligence enough to send a Bill drawn up in proper form, and whether the other House has to act as a revising Chamber to put us in our proper place as regards grammatical errors and matters of that kind. Surely we ought to be sufficiently intelligent to be able to send to the other House words which it cannot or ought not to alter. If, on the other hand, there is something more subtle behind this alteration, and it means something that we did not intend before, we ought to know from the Government. I am altogether disgusted with the whole procedure. It seems to me to be a waste of time for this Chamber to spend days on end drawing up certain Clauses, and then for the other House to spend a lot of time in altering the wording or in telling us that we have not drawn up the Bill properly. I am prepared to fight on either one or the other—I do not care which. If it means tackling the other place I am prepared to do it. If they are trying to make our language different from what it ought to be, fight on that. It is a subtle way of getting something for the landlord class, and we ought to resist it. I would say, resist every one of the Amendments, and if they want to go on for another 10 days afterwards let them do so. It must come to a climax in some way.
§ 8.36 p.m.
§ Captain CrookshankMy right hon. and learned Friend will reply in a minute to the point raised by the hon. and learned Member opposite, but I might reply to the hon. Member for Leigh (Mr. Tinker). He took exception to the fact that there were a great number of drafting Amendments. As my right hon. Friend said, this is in substance a drafting Amendment. Whether the particular point the hon. Gentleman had in mind does or does not arise I am not certain at the moment—I am not a legal expert. But this is a very complicated Bill on its legal side, and the House will remember that when we were discussing it here there were only a very few, even among our legal authorities, who felt inclined to deal with the points. During the considerable time that has elapsed since the Bill last left us, there has been an opportunity of looking through the Clauses to make certain that the intentions this House had were amply carried out. The hon. Gentleman says we ought to be able to do our work so well that there would be no need for a revising Chamber, but if he casts his mind back to legislation for which he himself had some responsibility he will find that on many occasions, even to carry out our own desires, the language had to be reviewed and Amendments made. Considering the length and complexity of this Bill and the novel field in which we are advancing, I do not think all his criticisms about the drafting are fully justified. I hope he will not really take this as a battlefield. As far as this particular Amendment is concerned, not being a legal authority myself, as I have said, I leave it to my right hon. and learned Friend.
§ The Attorney-GeneralThe actual point that the hon. and learned Gentleman put to me is one of some complexity. He propounded the point with great lucidity, if I may say so, and I will answer it as well as I can at such short notice. In the original Clause 5 it is laid down that:
For the purposes of this Section a lease shall not be deemed to be a coal-mining lease unless a person carrying on the business of coal-mining has a substantial beneficial interest in the exercise of the rights thereby conferred.Obviously, those words do not merely cover the lessee if they cover everybody who has 496a substantial beneficial interest in the exercise of the rights thereby conferred.The reason for the alteration of the words is that we want to use the most apt words to cover the cases intended to be covered; namely, the case of the trustee or the nominee being the lessee, or the person carrying on the business of coal-mining being either the principal of the nominee or the beneficiary of the trustee. It is those two categories of persons who are covered by the words:Any person claiming under him.I can give the assurance that there is no intention of making any alteration of policy in enlarging the category. I do not think this makes any difference. I think the effect is to substitute more apt words.
§ 8.41 p.m.
§ Mr. PrittSurely it is not very satisfactory. This House takes, within limitations of time, a good deal of trouble, with the assistance of Parliamentary draftsmen, to pass a Bill and send it to another place. Another place consists almost entirely of people who are admitted on all hands to be pursuing their own selfish interests and are affected in a way which, in any other legislature in the world, would probably disqualify them from either speaking or voting. They send down an Amendment——
§ The Attorney-GeneralA Government Amendment.
§ Mr. PrittA Government Amendment, passed where it would not be watched so closely as it would be here. My hon. and learned Friend the Member for East Bristol (Sir S. Cripps) discovers this point, and the Attorney-General, having obtained a great deal of skilled advice, says he does not think it makes any difference. This House is not the servant of another place. I suggest that if the Attorney-General says he does not think it will make any difference, this House should say it does think that it will stick to its own language.
§ Question put, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 204; Noes, 137.
473| Division No. 273.] | AYES. | [7.13 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. | Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) | Conant, Captain R. J. E. |
| Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. | Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.) | Cook, Sir T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.) |
| Albery, Sir Irving | Burton, Col. H. W. | Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) |
| Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead) | Butcher, H. W. | Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff (W'st'r S.G'gs) |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S. | Butler, R. A. | Cox, H. B. Trevor |
| Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.) | Campbell, Sir E. T. | Critchley, A. |
| Anstruther-Gray, W. J. | Cartland, J. R. H. | Crooke, Sir J. Smedley |
| Apsley, Lord | Carver, Major W. H. | Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C. |
| Assheton, R. | Cary, R. A. | Croom-Johnson, R. P. |
| Baillie, Sir A. W. M. | Cayzer, Sir C. W. (City of Chester) | Crowder, J. F. E. |
| Baldwin-Webb, Col. J. | Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) | Davidson, Viscountess |
| Balfour, G. (Hampstead) | Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n) | Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) |
| Barclay-Harvey, Sir C. M. | Channon, H. | De la Bère, R. |
| Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. | Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) | Denman, Hon. R. D. |
| Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) | Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) | Dixon, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. |
| Beechman, N. A. | Clarke, Colonel R. S. (E. Grinstead) | Drewe, C. |
| Birchall, Sir J. D. | Clarry, Sir Reginald | Duncan, J. A. L. |
| Boulton, W. W. | Clydesdale, Marquess of | Dunglass, Lord. |
| Bower, Comdr. R. T. | Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) | Eastwood, J. F. |
| Briscoe, Capt. R. G. | Colfox, Major W. P. | Edmondson, Major Sir J. |
| Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham) | Colville, Rt. Hon. John | Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E. |
| Ellis, Sir G. | Lipson, D. L. | Salmon, Sir I. |
| Elliston, Capt. G. S. | Llewellin, Colonel J. J. | Salt, E. W. |
| Emrys-Evans, P. V. | Loftus, p. C. | Samuel, M. R. A. |
| Erskine-Hill, A. G. | Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) | Sanderson, Sir F. B. |
| Everard, W. L. | MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G. | Selley, H. R. |
| Fremantle, Sir F. E. | McCorquodale, M. S. | Shaw, Major P, S, (Wavertree) |
| Furness, S. N. | MacDonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness) | Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar) |
| Fyfe, D. P. M. | Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) | Shepperson, Sir E. W. |
| Gledhill, G. | McKie, J. H. | Simmonds, O. E. |
| Goldie, N. B. | Maclay, Hon. J. P. | Smiles, Lieut.-Colonel Sir W. D. |
| Gower, Sir R. V. | Macmillan, H. (Stockton-on-Tees) | Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich) |
| Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral) | Macnamara, Major J. R. J. | Smith, Sir Louis (Hallam) |
| Grant-Ferris, R. | Magnay, T. | Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald |
| Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J. | Makins, Brigadier-General Sir Ernest | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Gridley, Sir A. B. | Manningham-Buller, Sir M. | Spears, Brigadier-General E. L. |
| Grimston, R. V. | Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. | Spens, W. P. |
| Gritten, W. G. Howard | Maxwell, Hon. S. A. | Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd) |
| Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake) | Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. | Storey, S. |
| Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'll, N.W.) | Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) | Stourton, Major Hon. J. J. |
| Gunston, Capt. Sir D. W. | Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.) | Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.) |
| Harbord, A. | Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) | Strauss, H. G. (Norwich) |
| Haslam, Henry (Horncastle) | Mitchell, H. (Brentford and Chiswick) | Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- (N'thw h) |
| Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) | Moreing, A. C. | Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) |
| Heilgers, Captain F. F. A. | Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F. |
| Hely-Hutchinson, M. R. | Munro, P. | Tate, Mavis C. |
| Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan | Nall, Sir J. | Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne) |
| Hepworth, J. | Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H. | Thomas, J. P. L. |
| Higgs, W. F. | Nicolson, Hon. H. G. | Thomson, Sir J. D. W. |
| Holmes, J. S. | O'Connor, Sir Terence J. | Thorneycroft, G. E. P. |
| Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L. | O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh | Titchfield, Marquess of |
| Horsbrugh, Florence | Peake O. | Touche, G. C. |
| Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) | Perkins, W. R. D. | Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L. |
| Hulbert, N. J. | Pickthorn, K. W. M. | Turton, R. H. |
| Hume, Sir G. H. | Porritt, R. W. | Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull) |
| Hunloke, H. P. | Procter, Major H. A. | Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend) |
| Hunter, T. | Radford, E. A. | Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S. |
| Hurd, Sir P. A. | Ramsay, Captain A. H. M. | Warrender, Sir V. |
| Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir T. W. H. | Ramsbotham, H. | Waterhouse, Captain C. |
| Joel, D. J. B. | Ramsden, Sir E. | Wayland, Sir W. A. |
| Jones, Sir G. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n) | Rankin, Sir R. | Wells, Sir Sydney |
| Jones, L. (Swansea W.) | Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin) | Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham) |
| Keeling, E. H. | Rayner, Major R. H. | Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.) |
| Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose) | Reed. A. C. (Exeter) | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Kerr, H. W. (Oldham) | Reid, J. S. C. (Hillhead) | Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin) |
| Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.) | Reid, W. Allan (Derby) | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G. |
| Keyes, Admiral of the Fleet Sir R. | Rickards, G. W. (Skipton) | Withers, Sir J. J. |
| Kimball, L. | Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool) | Womersley, Sir W. J. |
| Lamb, Sir J. Q. | Ropner, Colonel L. | Wood, Hon. C. I. C. |
| Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. | Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge) | Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley |
| Law, Sir A. J. (High Peak) | Rowlands, G. | Wragg, H. |
| Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.) | Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R. | |
| Lees-Jones, J. | Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Lennox-Boyd, A. T. L. | Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury) | Captain Dugdale and Major |
| Lewis, O. | Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen) | Herbert. |
| NOES. | ||
| Adams, D. (Consett) | Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill) | Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.) |
| Adamson, W. M. | Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) | Hayday, A. |
| Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. | Dobbie, W. | Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) |
| Banfield, J. W. | Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) | Henderson, J. (Ardwick) |
| Barnes, A. J. | Ede, J. C. | Henderson, T. (Tradeston) |
| Barr, J. | Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) | Hicks, E. G. |
| Batey, J. | Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) | Hills, A. (Pontefract) |
| Bellenger, F. J. | Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) | Holdsworth, H. |
| Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W. | Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. | Hollins, A. |
| Benson, G. | Foot, D. M. | Jagger, J. |
| Bevan, A. | Frankel, D. | Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) |
| Broad, F. A. | Gallacher, W. | Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) |
| Bromfield, W. | Gardner, B. W. | John, W. |
| Brown, C. (Mansfield) | Garro Jones, G. M. | Jones, A. C. (Shipley) |
| Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire) | George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) | Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth) |
| Buchanan, G. | Gibson, R. (Greenock) | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) |
| Burke, W. A. | Graham, D. M. (Hamilton) | Kelly, W. T. |
| Cape, T. | Green, W. H. (Deptford) | Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. |
| Cassells, T. | Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. | Kirby, B. V. |
| Chater, D. | Grenfell, D. R. | Kirkwood, D. |
| Cluse, W. S. | Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) | Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. |
| Clynes, Rt. Hon. J. R. | Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) | Lathan, G. |
| Cocks, F. S. | Griffiths, J. (Llanelly) | Lawson, J. J. |
| Collindridge, F. | Groves, T. E. | Leach, W. |
| Cove, W. G. | Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) | Lee, F. |
| Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford | Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) | Leonard, W. |
| Daggar, G. | Hardie, Agnes | Leslie, J. R. |
| Dalton, H. | Harris, Sir P. A. | Logan, D. G. |
| Lunn, W. | Parkinson, J. A. | Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.) |
| Macdonald, G. (Ince) | Pearson, A. | Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth) |
| McEntee, V. La T. | Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W. | Thorne, W. |
| McGhee, H. G. | Poole, C. C. | Tinker, J. J. |
| McGovern, J. | Price, M. P. | Viant, S. P. |
| MacLaren, A. | Pritt, D. N. | Walkden, A. G. |
| Mander, G. le M. | Richards, R. (Wrexham) | Walker, J. |
| Marshall, F. | Ridley, G. | Watkins, F. C. |
| Mathers, G. | Riley, B. | Watson, W. McL. |
| Maxton, J. | Ritson, J. | Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. J. C. |
| Messer, F. | Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.) | Welsh, J. C. |
| Milner, Major J. | Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.) | Westwood, J. |
| Montague, F. | Seely, Sir H. M. | White, H. Graham |
| Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.) | Sexton, T. M. | Williams, T. (Don Valley) |
| Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) | Simpson, F. B. | Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe) |
| Naylor, T. E. | Smith, E. (Stoke) | Windsor, W. (Hull, C.) |
| Oliver, G. H. | Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Less- (K'ly) | Woods, G. S. (Finsbury) |
| Owen, Major G. | Smith, T. (Normanton) | |
| Paling, W. | Stephen, C. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Parker, J. | Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng) | Mr. Whiteley and Mr. Charleton. |
Question put, and agreed to.
| Division No. 274.] | AYES. | [8.44 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. | Grant-Ferris, R. | Perkins, W. R. D. |
| Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.) | Greene, W. P. C. (Worcester) | Pickthorn, K. W. M. |
| Albery, Sir Irving | Gridley, Sir A. B. | Porritt, R. W. |
| Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead) | Gritten, W. G. Howard | Power, Sir J. C. |
| Anderson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Se'h Univ's) | Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake) | Procter, Major H. A. |
| Apsley, Lord | Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'll, N.W.) | Radford, E. A. |
| Aske, Sir R. W. | Gunston, Capt. D. W. | Ramsay, Captain A. H, M. |
| Assheton, R. | Hambro, A. V. | Ramsbotham, H. |
| Baillie, Sir A. W. M. | Harbord, A. | Ramsden, Sir E. |
| Balfour, G. (Hampstead) | Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.) | Rankin, Sir R. |
| Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. | Haslam, Henry (Horncastle) | Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin) |
| Beauchamp, Sir B. C. | Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) | Rayner, Major R. H. |
| Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) | Heilgers, Captain F. F. A. | Reed, A. C. (Exeter) |
| Beechman, N. A. | Hely-Hutchinson, M. R. | Reed, Sir H. S. (Aylesbury) |
| Birchall, Sir J. D. | Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan- | Reid, J. S. C. (Hillhead) |
| Blair, Sir R. | Hepworth, J. | Reid, W. Allan (Derby) |
| Boulton, W. W. | Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) | Rickards, G. W. (Skipton) |
| Bower, Comdr. R. T. | Higgs W. F. | Ropner, Colonel L. |
| Boyce, H. Leslie | Hepkinson A. | Ross Taylor. W. (Woodbridge) |
| Briscoe, Capt. R. G. | Horsbrugh, Florense | Rowlands, G. |
| Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham) | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) | Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R. |
| Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) | Hulbert, N. J. | Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A. |
| Bull, B. B. | Hume, Sir G. H. | Russell, Sir Alexander |
| Bullock, Capt. M. | Hunloke, H. P. | Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury) |
| Butcher, H. W. | Hunter, T. | Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen) |
| Cartland, J. R. H. | Hurd, Sir P. A. | Salt, E. W. |
| Carver, Major W. H. | Joel, D. J. B. | Samuel, M. R. A. |
| Cary, R. A. | Jones, Sir G. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n) | Sanderson, Sir F. B |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n) | Jones, L. (Swansea W.) | Selley H. R. |
| Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) | Keeling, E. H. | Shaw Major P. S. (Wavertree) |
| Clarke, Colonel R. S. (E. Grinstead) | Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose) | Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar) |
| Clarry, Sir Reginald | Kerr, H. W. (Oldham) | Shepperson, Sir E. W. |
| Clydesdale, Marquess of | Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.) | Simmonds, O. E. |
| Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) | Kimball, L. | Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich) |
| Colfox, Major W. P. | Lees-Jones, J. | Smith, Sir Louis (Hallam) |
| Conant, Captain R. J. E. | Lennox-Boyd, A. T. L. | Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald |
| Cook, Sir T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.) | Lewis, O. | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) | Liddall, W. S. | Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J. |
| Courthope, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir G. L. | Lindsay, K. M. | Spens, W. P. |
| Craven-Ellis, W. | Lipton, D. L. | Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'ld) |
| Critchley, A. | Little, Sir E. Graham- | Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.) |
| Crooke, Sir J. Smedley | Llewellin, Colonel J. J. | Storey, S. |
| Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C. | Loftus, P. C. | Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.) |
| Croom-Johnson, R. P. | Lyons, A. M. | Strauss, H. G. (Norwich) |
| Crowder, J. F. E. | Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) | Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) |
| Culverwell, C. T. | MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G. | Tate, Mavis C. |
| Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) | McCorquodale, M. S. | Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne) |
| De la Bère, R. | McEwen, Capt. J. H. F. | Thomson, Sir J. D. W. |
| Denman, Hon. R. D. | Maclay, Hon. J. P. | Thorneycroft, G. E. P. |
| Dixon, Capt. Rt. Hon H. | Macnamara, Major J. R. L. | Touche, G. C. |
| Donner, P. W. | Magnay, T. | Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L. |
| Drewe, C. | Maitland, A. | Wakefield, W. W. |
| Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side) | Makins, Brigadier-General Sir Ernest | Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull) |
| Dugdale, Captain T. L. | Manningham-Buller, Sir M. | Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S. |
| Duggan, H. J. | Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. | Wayland, Sir W. A. |
| Duncan, J. A. L. | Marsden, Commander A. | Wells, Sir Sydney |
| Eckersley, P. T. | Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M. | Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham) |
| Edmondson, Major Sir J. | Maxwell, Hon. S. A. | Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R. |
| Ellis, Sir G. | Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. | Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.) |
| Elliston, Capt. G. S. | Mellor, Sir R. J. (Mitcham) | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Emmott, C. E. G. C. | Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) | Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin) |
| Errington, E. | Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.) | Withers, Sir J. J. |
| Erskine-Hill, A. G. | Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) | Womersley, Sir W. J. |
| Everard, W. L. | Mitchell, H. (Brentford and Chiswick) | Wood, Hon. C. I. C. |
| Findlay, Sir E. | Morrison, Rt. Hon. W, S. (Cirencester) | Wragg, H. |
| Fremantle, Sir F. E. | Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H. | Wright, Wing-Commander J. A. C. |
| Fyfe, D. P. M. | Nicolson, Hon. H. G. | |
| Gledhill, G. | O'Connor, Sir Terence J. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral) | O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh | Mr. Munro and Mr. Furness. |
| NOES. | ||
| Adams, D. (Consett) | Bromfield, W. | Collindridge, F. |
| Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) | Brown, C. (Mansfield) | Cove, W. G. |
| Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. | Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire) | Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford |
| Banfield, J. W. | Buchanan, G. | Daggar, G. |
| Barnes, A. J. | Burke, W. A. | Dalton, H. |
| Barr, J. | Cape, T. | Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill) |
| Batey, J. | Cassells, T. | Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) |
| Bellenger, F. J. | Chater, D. | Dobbie, W. |
| Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W. | Cluse, W. S, | Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) |
| Benson, G. | Clynes, Rt. Hon. J. R. | Ede, J. C. |
| Broad, F. A. | Cocks, F. S. | Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) |
| Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) | Kirkwood, D. | Pritt, D. N. |
| Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. | Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. | Quibell, D. J. K. |
| Frankel, D. | Lathan, G. | Richards, R. (Wrexham) |
| Gallacher, W. | Lawson, J. J. | Ridley, G. |
| Gardner, B. W. | Leach, W. | Riley, B. |
| Garro Jones, G. M. | Lee, F. | Ritson, J. |
| George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) | Leonard, W. | Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.) |
| Gibson, R. (Greenock) | Lesile, J. R. | Seely, Sir H. M. |
| Graham, D. M. (Hamilton) | Logan, D. G. | Sexton, T. M. |
| Green, W. H. (Deptford) | Lunn, W. | Simpson, F. B. |
| Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. | Macdonald, G. (Ince) | Smith, E. (Stoke) |
| Grenfell, D. R. | McEntee, V. La T. | Smith, T. (Normanton) |
| Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbre, W.) | McGhee, H. G. | Stephen, C. |
| Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) | McGovern, J. | Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng) |
| Griffiths, J. (Llanelly) | MacLaren, A. | Summerskill, Dr. Edith |
| Groves, T. E. | Mander, G. le M. | Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth) |
| Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) | Marshall, F. | Thorne, W. |
| Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) | Mathers, G. | Thurtle, E. |
| Hardie, Agnes | Maxton, J. | Tinker, J. J. |
| Hayday, A. | Messer, F. | Viant, S. P. |
| Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) | Milner, Major J. | Walkden, A. G. |
| Henderson, J. (Ardwick) | Montague, F. | Walker, J. |
| Henderson, T. (Tradeston) | Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.) | Watkins, F. C. |
| Hicks, E. G. | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) | Watson W. McL. |
| Hills, A. (Pontefract) | Nathan, Colonel H. L. | Welsh J. C. |
| Holdsworth, H. | Naylor, T. E. | Westwood, J. |
| Jagger, J. | Noel-Baker, P. J. | White H. Graham |
| Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) | Oliver, G. H. | Whiteley, W. (Blaydon) |
| Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) | Owen, Major G. | Williams, T. (Don Valley) |
| John, W. | Paling, W. | Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe) |
| Jones, A. C. (Shipley) | Parker, J. | Windsor, W. (Hull, C.) |
| Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Parkinson, J. A. | Woods, G. S. (Finsbury) |
| Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Pearson, A. | |
| Kelly, W. T. | Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. | Poole, C. C. | Mr. Charleton and Mr. |
| Kirby, B. V. | Price, M. P. | Adamson. |
§ Subsequent Lords Amendments to page 5, line 40, agreed to.
§
Lords Amendment: In page 5, line 41, at the end, insert:
(6) Interests in coal or a mine of coal in or under land formerly copyhold which were preserved to the tenant on the enfranchisement thereof shall be retained interests, except in a case in which the tenant has, by custom or otherwise (except by virtue of a coal-mining lease), the right to work coal in or under the land without the licence of the lord.
§ 8.54 P.m.
§ The Attorney-GeneralI beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
This Amendment and the following Amendment were discussed on an earlier consequential Amendment.
§ Sir S. CrippsAlthough we object to this Amendment, we are not going to vote against it, because we have already voted on the principle on another Amendment.
§ 8.55 p.m.
§ Mr. BateyThis is the fifth Amendment on page 5 with which we have dealt, and the Minister has not explained one of the Amendments. I hope that the Secretary for Mines or the Attorney-General will explain this Amendment, because some of us want to know what these 500 Amendments mean. We cannot understand why the whole page should be changed without any word of explanation being given.
§ The Attorney-GeneralI gave a long explanation of these two Amendments, and perhaps the hon. Gentleman was not in the House when I moved the Amendment, "and of certain other interests," which was consequential on these two.
§ Question, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment," put, and agreed to.
§ Subsequent Lords Amendment in page 6, line 17, agreed to.