HC Deb 02 April 1936 vol 310 cc2181-99
Mr. BARNES

I beg to move, in page 2, to leave out lines 27 to 35.

It cannot be said that the discussion of this Clause in Committee resulted in a satisfactory explanation by the Minister and I therefore welcome this opportunity of raising the issue on the Floor of the House in the hope that the Minister will give more substantial reasons for the retention of this proviso than we obtained in Committee. This Clause creates a Commission which is to supervise, in the public interest, the administration and reorganisation of the sugar industry. Subsections (4) and (5) provide that no private interests of a commissioner shall conflict with his public responsibilities and duties under the Bill. Subsection (4) lays it down that no person shall be appointed a commissioner if, within five years before the appointment, he has been engaged in carrying on the business of manufacturing or refining sugar. Under Sub-section (5) a commissioner within three months of his appointment must sell or dispose of any interest of that kind which he may have. It is the proviso to that Sub-section which I propose to delete.

In that proviso the Minister introduces a number of qualifying conditions and I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman in the first place whether he considers those qualifying provisions to be essential. It is provided, for instance, that if a commissioner satisfies the Minister that any interest which he holds is remote, he may be excused from compliance with the Subsection. It appears to me that those words are contradictory of the earlier provisions respecting the responsibilities of the commissioners. It is first required that a commissioner should surrender any interest which he holds and then later on in this proviso it would appear that certain kinds of interests, either in the manufacturing, refining or selling of sugar are to be recognised and are not to be a disqualification. The difficulties created by this proviso will be further noted by hon. Members if they examine the wording. It states: Any interest … which the commissioner holds or proposes to acquire or to which he has become entitled— We are entitled to a clear and specific statement from the Minister as to what type of interest in the production refining and marketing of sugar a commissioner can acquire after he has been appointed a commissioner which would not conflict with his public responsibilities under the Bill. It appears absurd that Parliament should first take precautions to eliminate such interests and then, by this proviso, readmit them.

Notice taken that 40 Members were not present; House counted, and 40 Members being present—

Mr. BARNES

The words to which I particularly direct attention are: or propose to acquire or to which he has become entitled. One can only assume that those words have been inserted to meet the case of a commissioner who has inherited an estate or other property after his appointment. One can assume, legitimately, that it would be possible for a commissioner to acquire a large interest in the industry by inheriting an estate upon which a considerable quantity of sugar-beet is grown. A crop which receives a public subsidy such as this crop is receiving can represent a very large improvement in the value of an estate. We have also to remember that one of the very large expenses connected with sugar beet refining is concerned with machinery and a commissioner might inherit shares in an engineering company or other concern of that kind which was receiving some advantage or benefit. Therefore, it appears to me that to leave in the words, "or to which he has become entitled," is contradictory of the previous provision and is likely to lead to abuse.

A further qualifying provision is that the Minister is satisfied that the interest "is so remote" that the holding will not affect the exercise of the functions. I think it is dangerous to put into an Act of Parliament vague words of that description, especially in relation to a reorganisation of an industry which is only possible through the doling out of large sums of public money. It would be impossible to continue the industry without this pouring out of public money, and I think it is contrary to the public interest that vague words like these should be put into the Bill. Before this paragraph is allowed to remain in the Bill, I think the House is entitled to much more specific safeguards from the Minister than we secured upstairs in Committee, and as he has not yet defined how he would interpret these qualifications, I think he should do so now, and this Amendment will give him the opportunity.

5.2 p.m.

Mr. KELLY

I beg to second the Amendment.

I hope we shall have some explanation from the Minister as to what would be considered "so remote" a position in which a prospective Commissioner might find himself that it would not affect his holding the position under this Measure. If he is in such a position at all that has to be considered by the Minister, I think he has no right to hold a position as Commissioner under this Bill.

5.3 p.m.

Mr. BELLENGER

I do not wish to repeat the arguments that I put in Committee, but I would like to draw attention to two questions which I then put to the Lord Advocate. I asked whether this Clause would allow the wife of a Commissioner to hold shares and whether a Commissioner could hold the position of trustee for his children. The Lord Advocate was very definite, and replied: I should say without any hesitation that, as the Clause is drawn, a holding by a wife or by a person as trustee for his children or indeed for anyone else, would not be disqualified."—(OFFICIAL REPORT (Standing Committee D), 20th February, 1936; col. 57.) I suggest, although the Minister was not impressed by my arguments in Committee, that for a Commissioner to be selected for this responsible position, he should not hold any shares as a trustee for his children or anyone else, and certainly his wife should not hold any shares. Although she is a separate entity in law, I submit that she should not be allowed to hold shares in this connection. If she were, just think where this would lead to. I suggest that such a thing would be against the public interest and against public policy.

5.5 p.m.

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of AGRICULTURE (Mr. Ramsbotham)

The hon. Member for East Ham South (Mr. Barnes) defined the general object of the Clause, as to prevent any Commissioner having a private interest which conflicted with his duties under the Bill, and with that object the Government are in complete accord. We desire so to frame this. Clause that a Commissioner shall not be deflected from the proper course of his duty by any interest in these various types of undertaking, and that there shall be no ground on which, the public should think that he might be so deflected. There is also another object, to which the hon. Member did not refer, and that is that any Government operating this Bill when it becomes an Act would also desire to be, as far as possible, at liberty to choose the most suit role person as a member of this Commission, and such a Government would tot desire to be unduly restricted in their choice unless there should be sound reasons for imposing such fetters upon them. For that reason it would be undesirable to omit these lines which the hon. Member seeks to leave out, because it would unduly fetter the Government in the exercise or achievement of the object in view.

I could perhaps illustrate that by one or two definite cases which would fetter the Government in their choice, and I am sure the right hon. Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander) will forgive me if I put it as an argumentum ad hominem. The right, hon. Gentleman might very well indeed commend himself to a Government as the type, the highest type, of member to serve on such a Commission.

Mr. BARNES

But that is provided against in so far as Members of the House of Commons are concerned.

Mr. RAMSBOTHAM

I am naturally making the assumption that the right hon. Gentleman's constituents would take the necessary steps to relieve him of his obligations as their representative. That being so, this position would arise: The right hon. Gentleman as is well known, is closely connected with the Co-operative movement, and it happens that that movement holds a very large block of shares in the firm of Tate and Lyle—some 80,000 shares. When my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture or some other Minister of Agriculture approached the right hon. Gentleman opposite and said, "It is the wish of the Government that you should serve as a member of this Commission," the right hon. Gentleman, if this Amendment were carried, would have to say in reply, "I am very sorry. I should like to place my services at the disposal of the State on this Commission, but unfortunately I have an interest, though remote in this connection, in the Co-operative movement, which in its turn is interested in the refining industry, and I cannot accept the position." The position in that case would be that the Minister of Agriculture would have no power to waive the objections in favour of the right hon. Gentleman, and the State would suffer the loss of a very valuable public servant.

Mr. OLIVER

It does not matter how many shares the Co-operative movement might hold; it is only a community interest.

Mr. RAMSBOTHAM

I selected the right hon. Gentleman opposite because he is the kind of person who would naturally be selected to serve on this Commission, but I do not think I need weary the Committee with a long list of cases which the omission of these words would make it impossible for the Government to select. A gentleman might have a share in an investment trust, and that investment trust in its turn might have a very small holding in a Colonial sugar plantation or a West Indian sugar factory. Nevertheless, that individual, having all the qualifications which I have mentioned, would be debarred from serving on this Commission for the simple reason that the Minister would have no power to appoint him owing to the absence from the Measure of these words.

As regards cases in which a prospective member of the Sugar Commission might become entitled to an interest, I have a case in point which would show how ridiculous it would be to impose this stricture on the Minister. Take the case of a man with a title in remainder to an estate, we will say, of 5,000 acres owned by trustees on behalf of a tenant for life, and on that estate there are, say, five acres of sugar beet. Assume also that the owner is an eminently suitable person to serve on the Commission. Then suppose that the tenant for life suddenly dies, and the prospective candidate for the Sugar Commission, quite unexpectedly, becomes the owner of that land which happens to be growing a very small acreage of sugar beet. He, ipso facto, is debarred from membership of the Commission. Quite unexpectedly he has come into possession of the land on which there is this small acreage of beet, it may be in the very middle of the estate so that he cannot sell it. Is it to be supposed that the House or the public would say that a gentleman of that type, eminently suitably to serve on the Commission, the type of the right hon. Gentleman opposite, should be debarred from serving the public in that way simply because of this technical defect.

I suggest that the Committee would be well advised to reject the Amendment, in order to enable this Government, or indeed any Government, to secure, so far as is reasonably possible, the widest field of selection and so that they would not find themselves in the position of saying, "This gentleman, otherwise eminently qualified to fill this important position, cannot place his services at the disposal of the State because of an interest which is so remote and so trivial that no reasonable person could for a moment think it would influence him in the discharge of his duties or deflect him from behaving in a proper and honest manner in connection with his duties as a member of the Commission." I hope the hon. Member opposite will agree to withdraw his Amendment.

5.14 p.m.

Mr. OLIVER

If a position such as that put by the Parliamentary Secretary arose, I do not think many people would object to the proposal of the Government. Dealing with the remote possibility of a remainder man being placed in that position, I do not think any Minister of the Crown would ask or expect him to sell that part of his property which was in question until a reasonable time had elapsed for him to have done so, and if such a case should ever arise, I have no doubt that any Minister of Agriculture would allow a reasonable time to elapse for any such person to dispose of the property.

The MINISTER of AGRICULTURE (Mr. Elliot)

Will the hon. Member also apply that to the co-operative society?

Mr. OLIVER

I hope the right hon. Gentleman will restrain himself for a moment. The Parliamentary Secretary referred to the right hon. Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander) and to holdings in an investment company. Surely if it is the intention of the Government to treat such remote interests the Parliamentary Secretary will probably find that the right hon. Member for Hillsborough's holding is about one-seven-hundred millionth share in that undertaking. Surely it is not beyond the power of the Government's draftsmen to draft the Bill differently if it was intended to meet such a remote possibility as that. In Committee the Lord Advocate, replying to the hon. Member for the Bassetlaw Division (Mr. Bellenger), said: I should say without any hesitation that, as the Clause is drawn, a holding by a wife or by a person as trustee for his children or indeed for anyone else, would not be disqualified."—[OFFICIAL REPORT (Standing Committee D), 20th February, 1935; col. 57.]

Mr. ELLIOT

Hear, hear!

Mr. OLIVER

Is the right hon. Gentleman advocating lumping the case of a man holding a legal interest, a beneficiary interest enjoyed by his wife, with benefit from the co-operative society?

Mr. ELLIOT

Certainly not.

Mr. OLIVER

If I understand the right hon. Gentleman aright then a trustee for a wife can be appointed?

Mr. ELLIOT

No, I certainly should not give permission in those circumstances.

Mr. OLIVER

I understand that the right hon. Gentleman would not allow a man to be chosen as a commissioner if he held such interests as were specified by my hon. Friend?

Mr. ELLIOT

Certainly.

Mr. OLIVER

Do I understand the Minister to say that whilst the Clause would permit a commissioner to be a trustee for his wife or children he himself would not permit it?

Mr. ELLIOT

We are on Report stage and I cannot speak without leave of the House, but if a reply to that interjection is not to be taken as a speech I would say that I should certainly not approve of that. I should consider such a holding was not so remote that it would not influence a man in the exercise of his duties as a commissioner, and should insist either that he resigned the holding or that he should not be appointed as a commissioner.

Mr. BARNES

What safeguard have we that this standard will be followed by subsequent Ministers? Why cannot it be put in the Bill?

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER (Sir Dennis Herbert)

I must remind hon. Members that we are sitting as a House and not in Committee. Hon. Members must make their points and the Minister must reply to them afterwards.

Mr. OLIVER

If that is the intention of the Minister surely it will be possible to redraft this Sub-section and make clear what remoteness of interest may be. There is a vast difference between a commissioner holding as a trustee and my right hon. Friend the Member for Hillsborough's connection with the co-operative society. I think the Clause should be redrafted to make more precise what remoteness means, and not include people who whilst they are not holding a beneficial interest may hold a legal interest.

5.22 p.m.

Sir PATRICK HANNON

The appointment of commissioners in cases of this kind has frequently been before the House and it has always been the responsibility of the Minister to secure men with the highest qualifications and of the highest character. I was glad to hear the suggestion that the right hon. Gentleman opposite would obviously be a man who would be chosen notwithstanding his association with an enterprise which might nevertheless render him ineligible. These commissioners must be appointed on their merits and qualities, and it would be rather difficult sometimes to find such persons if you impose obligations and limitations of the nature contemplated by the Amendment.

Mr. E. J. WILLIAMS

Does not that apply to the London Passenger Transport Board? They cannot have any shares or holding?

Sir P. HANNON

That is rather a different matter. Here we are appointing commissioners to administer a great undertaking and the Minister should certainly be free to exercise his discretion in any appointment he makes. It is difficult, with all the complex commercial ramifications of business in this country, to find people with knowledge and experience to sit on these Commissions who would not in some way be remotely connected with an undertaking and, indeed, the fact that they are associated with the industry means that they have acquired the necessary knowledge to fulfill their duties. I hope the Minister will not accept the Amendment, because it would limit his freedom of choice in appointing men of the highest character and attainments.

5.25 p.m.

Mr. E. J. WILLIAMS

It is difficult to understand why the Minister does not appreciate the fact that it is more important to have the good will of the country for a scheme of this kind than to have some particular person with excellent qualifications who may at the same time have some minor interests in the undertaking. It is far more important, when we are setting up machinery to deal with this industry about which most hon. Members in the House are really disgusted, to wipe out the past, the rotten past and all it contains, to have men who are absolutely free from any tinge of vested interest in the industry; otherwise the people of the country will feel as much disgusted about the conduct of the Minister in this matter as they do about the past of the industry. It is difficult to appreciate the point of the hon. Member for Moseley (Sir P. Hannon). Is there a scarcity of qualified men in the country? Has the Minister someone in mind whom he is likely to appoint who has had some connection with this industry in the past? How is the Minister to ascertain whether he has a minor or a major interest in the industry? What is the, definition of remoteness? The case put by the Parliamentary Secretary is really too absurd for words. I want the Minister to indicate how he is going to ascertain whether a person has a remote interest. If there is a remote interest surely he should not appoint him. We want to bury the rotten past of this industry and appoint persons who are entirely free from any suspicion of vested interest. It is more important for the Minister to have the good will of the public than it is to have qualified men.

5.28 p.m.

Mr. GRAHAM WHITE

I do not agree with the hon. Member for Moseley (Sir P. Hannon) when he said that this matter is on a different basis from the London Passenger Transport Board. What we are concerned with is a general principle concerning any public enterprise or semipublic body which is set up to carry out these important duties. The London Passenger Transport Board is one case, this is another, and there is the British Broadcasting Corporation. We shall see more of this type of organisation in the future, and it is important that the public in connection with all these concerns, should feel that those who are appointed to these important positions are entirely free from any-suspicion of interest which may influence their judgment.

Sir P. HANNON

Will the hon. Member keep this in mind, that in making appointments to a Commission of this nature the number of persons whom the Minister can select must be very limited, and that it would be a great hardship if we were to impose these restrictions.

Mr. WHITE

That fact is very much in my mind, but I am not certain that it is altogether desirable that people appointed to this Commission should have a special knowledge of the industry. We have appointed a Minister for the Co-ordination of Defence Forces, and in that particular case it was essential that he should be a man of character and with a judicial mind. In this particular case, having regard to the past history of the matter, I think it is desirable that some of the Commissioners should have no special knowledge of the industry but should have a judicial mind.

5.30 p.m.

Mr. De CHAIR

I hope the Minister will resist the Amendment. I do not at all agree that what is required in these Commissioners is a judicial mind. What is very requisite is an expert mind; that they should have some knowledge of the matter to be dealt with, and that is why I think we want men of ability connected with the industry who are capable of deciding these grave issues. I do not wish to delay the House, but this is the most important Clause in the Bill, and I think it important that the Minister should have the discretion which is provided for in the lines which the Amendment seeks to remove. If anybody who has had in the past a remote connection with the sugar beet industry is to be excluded, it will annihilate at a blow a very big chance of having anybody with an expert knowledge of the industry at all. At the present moment we see a continual process of the delegation of the authority of Parliament to various bodies, and this Commission is typical of that process. Surely it is in the interests of the public that the representation shall be as expert as possible, and we ought not to delegate the authority to people who do not know anything about the industry. An enormous responsibility will rest on the Commission and the whole object is to secure people who are connected with the industry.

All through the Committee stage we were told that anything on which there is doubt is to be referred to the Commission, which has become the crux of the whole Bill. Consequently it is important that the Commission, which will consist of only four members and a chairman, shall be composed of members with an expert knowledge of the subject. If there is to be taken away from the Minister the power to grant exemption to a person who has a very remote connection, it will mean hamstringing the Commission at the outset. Clearly the intention of this Sub-section is to prevent anybody who has a financial interest being a member of the Commission; the interest referred to is not that of a special knowledge. I think the Minister is entitled to ask for this power to exempt anybody who, in his opinion, ought to be a member of the Commission because of his great knowledge of the sugar beet industry, but who at the same time has no financial gain by being on the Commission. I hope the Minister will oppose the Amendment.

5.33 p.m.

Mr. A. V. ALEXANDER

The hon. Member who has just spoken has so often revealed the Tory mind that we always welcome his contributions to the Debates. The Parliamentary Secretary was very anxious to assure the Committee that the real object of the Government in resisting the Amendment was to widen as far as possible the area from which the commissioners would be drawn. The hon. Member who has just spoken has revealed the true reason for the Government's resistance, and it is that they want, if possible, to retain the right to put on the Sugar Commission people who have had a connection with the industry in the past. The hon. Member was a Member of the Standing committee and he ought therefore to recollect that we have had some difficulty in making progress in the direction of a cleaning-up of the industry.

We recognise that the Minister, in the course of the drafting of the Bill and by certain concessions made in Committee, has improved what was a very bad business. We still do not like the Bill and the structure, but we admit that the Minister has improved it a good deal, although that improvement was the result of pressure from the Opposition, both in the Committee stage and in previous discussions on the industry. In Committee we had some difficulty in persuading the Government to accept the inclusion of Sub-section (4) of this Clause, which says that no person who has held an interest within the last five years shall be eligible for appointment to the Commission. If the hon. Member who spoke before me is right in what he said, the Minister would have to go back on that.

Mr. De CHAIR

I could hardly agree with that. I think it is a great pity that people who, during the last five years, have accumulated experience are not allowed to sit on this Commission. I certainly oppose that.

Mr. ALEXANDER

The hon. Member cannot have done my hon. Friends and myself the honour of listening to us in the Committee, when we exposed the terrible financial ramp that has been going on in the industry since 1925. If he had really listened, he would have appreciated our statements, which have never been denied by toe Government at any time either in the House or in Committee, concerning this ramp which has been going on, and he would not have made the statement he has just made. We seek to make certain that nobody will sit on the Commission, the duty of which will be either to withhold a licence from an existing refiner or manufacturer or to refuse the granting of a licence to a new applicant, if he has any interest whatever in the ultimate profits arising from his decisions. I do not think that is an unreasonable attitude for us to take up. In his usual quiet but insinuating and ingratiating manner, the Parliamentary Secretary brought me into this matter, although there was no reason at all for doing so. It is true that I have official employment with a great social, consumers' movement, but I am responsible with my hon. Friends in the Labour party for the moving of this Amendment. If we are content to safeguard the public interest, what is the Minister worrying about?

Mr. RAMSBOTHAM

To protect the right hon. Gentleman against himself.

Mr. ALEXANDER

Surely we do not need protection froth ourselves when we are setting a high standard of public morality. Moreover, if this proviso which my hon. Friends are asking the Government to exclude is eliminated, there will not be the slightest difficulty in working the Clause. The Minister knows quite well that there is no difficulty whatever in local authorities running a municipal bank. Every member of the local authority having an interest must disclose it, and if he does not, he is liable to certain pains and penalties. Therefore, I am certain the Minister or his successors would have no difficulty in dealing with such a case on advice from their staff. The object must be to try to avoid as far as possible any semblance of a repetition of the financial scandals there have been in the industry for the past 12 years. If the Minister wishes, he can very much facilitate the passage of this Bill by agreeing to leave out this proviso, and if he does so, I am sure he will facilitate the passage of other things in the Bill. If the Minister will meet us on this matter, we shall be very glad, and we shall feel indebted to him at a later stage. We regard this matter as vital. If the Minister is unable to accede, he must expect us to go into the Division Lobby against him.

5.38 p.m.

Mr. ELLIOT

I would like to refer the right hon. Gentleman to a later Amendment which his friends have put down. After all, he said that his object was to prevent anybody from sitting as a member of the Commission who might in a judicial capacity have to take a decision to refuse a licence, but I would like to quote against him the hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. Kelly), the hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr. Broad) and the hon. Member for Stoke (Mr. Smith), who have put down exactly the same saving Clause in an Amendment regarding the licensing authority. On which of these does the right hon. Gentleman stand?

Mr. ALEXANDER

If in regard to the appointment of the major Commission the Minister intends to exercise his discretion in favour of people with interests, then we would certainly require equal treatment in the other case; but if he will grant us the concession for which we now ask, we will withdraw the later Amendment.

Mr. ELLIOT

Since I have gone to the great trouble of putting down an Amendment to meet that very point after the discussion in Committee upstairs, I think it would put hon. Members in a very grave dilemma if I were now to withdraw it. It is at any rate clear that the right hon. Gentleman's desire to safeguard public security and morality is not as strong as he put it. He said that the Amendment which his hon. Friends have put down on a later Clause was only put down in case the present one is not carried. The whole matter really comes down to the point which was fairly put by the hon. Gentleman the Member for Ogmore (Mr. E. J. Williams) and others, who said that surely it would not be beyond the wit of man to put into the Statute some indication of the degree of remoteness by which the Minister would be governed, but I do not think they could have followed the discussions in the Committee upstairs or the explanation given by my right bon. Friend the Lord Advocate, who carefully said that there was literally no limit to the indirect interests of this kind which existed. He said: I do not hesitate to say that it would be beyond the wit of man to devise a Clause through which it would not be a comparatively simple matter to drive a coach and four."—[OFFICIAL REPORT (Standing Committee D), 20th February, 1936, col. 57.] One has to come back to the honour of the Minister and the honour of the Commission, and I do say that this proviso covers the question of honour. The question is whether this matter has to be dealt with in the Statute or whether it has to be dealt with on the responsibility of the Minister. I repeat that which my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary said, that it cannot be dealt with by Statute and that some discretion must be left to the Minister. The Clause would in no way be stronger if this proviso were struck out.

Mr. E. J. WILLIAMS

This point is a vital one. In the case of the London Passenger Transport Board there is this safeguard which we are now seeking in this case.

Mr. ELLIOT

It would be impossible for me to go into the Clauses of the London Pasenger Transport Act or other Acts. I wish only to emphasise that I have the authority of the right hon. Gentleman the Lord Advocate for saying that a coach and four could be driven through every conceivable Clause. I am content to take that as a fairly good pointer. I ask the House to consider this as a practical matter. The discretion here asked for is a real discretion. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander) laughed at the suggestion that he might be appointed as a commissioner. I appointed Dr. Addison to assume a most responsible post as head of a reorganisation commission, and if I had inquired into his private finances and asked whether he was prepared to resign from the co-operatives, would that not have been regarded by every hon. Member opposite as a case of gross persecution? Would they not have asked why I was not content to take the assurance of a man of the standing of Dr. Addison, that he was not in possession of any financial interest which would influence his judgment? I am sure that in assurances such as that there is to be found the great safeguard for the Minister and for the House. I do not believe we can draw a Statute so as to avoid all the contingent liabilities which might arise under it, and the careful statement of the Lord Advocate has proved that the liability could not be excluded by the words of the Statute. I do say that we have given evidence in the past of a desire not merely to have the highest security possible in public life, but to stretch our net as wide as possible in this matter.

I have appointed such persons as Dr. Addison and others whose views are not my own. That is pretty good evidence of a desire to cast the net wide. It is not on the ground of any particular legality that I am asking for this proviso, or with the desire of making a job and putting in somebody who is patently unfitted to be a commissioner. I am entitled to ask hon. Members opposite to consider my own personal record in these matters and the fact that I have cast the net wide to the great displeasure of some of my own supporters. The holders of this high office will, I hope, in future as in the past take a wide view of their responsibilities and do their best to get the best men for the job, irrespective of the minor interests which they may have.

Mr. DAY

It has always been looked upon as a tainted industry.

Mr. ELLIOT

I do not think the hon. Gentleman's interest in agriculture has been so close and through that he is entitled to make a remark like that. His knowledge of the extensive sugar beet interest is a recent acquisition and he is not entitled to make a general statement such as that on the history of myself or of Dr. Addison or of Lord Noel-Buxton. I do not think that anyone is entitled to say there has been any taint about the Ministry under these holders of the office.

Mr. DAY

I am saying nothing about the Minister; I am referring to the industry.

Mr. ELLIOT

The Ministry is the Minister, and the Minister is the Ministry.

Mr. DAY

I am referring to the sugar beet industry.

Mr. ELLIOT

This is not a Clause about the industry, but about the Minister. This proviso gives the Minister discretion. That discretion has been exercised in the past by people with a high standard of duty and it will be exercised in future, I hope, by people of a high standard of duty. If it is not, no words inserted in the Bill will be of the slightest value.

Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."

The House divided: Ayes, 230; Noes, 130.

Division No. 133.] AYES. [4.43 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. Butt, Sir A. Duckworth, G. A. V. (Salop)
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Campbell, Sir E. T. Duckworth, w. R. (Moss Side)
Albery, I. J. Cartland, J. R. H. Dugdale, Major T. L.
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'kn'hd) Carver, Major W. H. Duggan, H. J.
Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir W. J. (Armagh) Cary, R. A. Dunglass, Lord
Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S. Castlereagh, Viscount Dunne, P. R. R.
Anstruther-Gray, W. J. Cayzer, Sir C. W. (City of Chester) Eckersley, P. T.
Apsley, Lord Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Edmondson, Major Sir J.
Aske, Sir R. W. Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E.
Assheton, R. Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n) Emery, J. F.
Astor, Visc'tess (Plymouth, Sutton) Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) Emmott, C. E. G. C.
Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) Emrys-Evans, P. V.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. Entwistle, C. F.
Baldwin-Webb, Col. J. Clarke, F. E. Errington, E.
Balfour, Capt. H. H.(Isle of Thanet) Clarry, Sir R. G. Erskine Hill, A. G.
Balniel, Lord Clydesdale, Marquess of Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.)
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Colfox, Major W. P. Everard, W. L.
Baxter, A. Beverley Caiman, N. C. D. Findlay, Sir E.
Beauchamp, Sir B. C. Colville, Lt.-Col. D. J. Fox, Sir G. W. G.
Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Cook, T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.) Fremantle, Sir F. E.
Belt, Sir A. L. Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Fyfe, D. P. M.
Birchall, Sir J. D. Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff(W'st'r S.G'gs) Ganzonl, Sir J.
Blair, Sir R. Cooper, Rt. Hon. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Gibson, C. G.
Blindell, Sir J. Courtauld, Major J. S. Gledhill, G.
Boothby, R. J. G. Courthope, Col. Sir G. L. Gluckstein, L. H.
Bossom, A. C. Cranborne, Viscount Gower, Sir R. V.
Boulton, W. W. Croft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. Page Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral)
Bower, Comdr. R. T. Crooke, J. S. Granville, E. L.
Bowyer, Capt. Sir G. E. W. Cross, R. H. Grattan-Doyle, Sir N.
Boyce, H. Leslie Crowder, J. F. E. Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J.
Brass, Sir W. Culverwell, C. T. Gridley, Sir A. B.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Davies, Major G. F. (Yeovil) Grigg, Sir E. W. M.
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Davison, Sir W. H. Grimston, R. V.
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) De Chair, S S. Guest, Capt. Rt. Hen. F. E. (Drake)
Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.) De la Bère, R. Guest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor)
Bull, B. B. Denman, Hon. R. D. Gunston, Capt. D. w.
Bullock, Capt. M. Denville, Alfred Guy, J. C. M.
Burgin, Dr. E. L. Donner, P. W. Hamilton, Sir G. C.
Burton, Col. H. W. Dorman-Smith, Major R. H. Hanbury, Sir C.
Butler, R. A. Drewe, C. Hannah, I. C.
Hannon, Sir P. J. H. Macnamara, Capt. J. R. J. Sandys, E. D.
Harbord, A. Manningham-Buller, Sir M. Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P.
Hartington, Marquess of Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Scott, Lord William
Harvey, G. Markham, S. F. Selley, H. R.
Hellgers, Captain F. F. A. Maxwell, S. A. Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree)
Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan- Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Shepperson, Sir E. W.
Herbert, A. P. (Oxford U.) Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.) Smiles, Lieut.-Colonel Sir W. D.
Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Smith, L. W. (Hallam)
Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon) Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) Smithers, Sir W.
Hoare, Rt. Hon. Sir S. Morgan, R. H. Somervell, Sir D. B. (Crewe)
Holmes, J. S. Morris, O. T. (Cardiff, E.) Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J. Morrison, W. S. (Cirencester) Somerville, D. G. (Willesden, E.)
Hopkinson, A. Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J. Southby, Comdr. A. R. J.
Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L. Munro, p. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde)
Horsbrugh, Florence Neven-Spence, Maj. B. H. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (Wm'l'd)
Howitt, Dr. A. B. Nicolson, Hon. H. G. Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)
Hudson, R. S. (Southport) O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh Storey, S.
Hume, Sir G. H. Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. W. G. Srauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Hunter, T. Orr-Ewing, I. L. Strickland, Captain W. F.
Hurd, Sir P. A. Patrick, C. M. Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Jackson, Sir H. Petherick, M. Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby)
James, Wing-Commander, A. W. Pickthorn, K. W. M. Thomas, J. P. L. (Hereford)
Kerr, H. W. (Oldham) Pilkington, R. Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Lamb, Sir J. Q. Plugge, L. F. Titchfield, Marquess of
Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. Ponsonby, Col. C. E. Touche, G. C.
Latham, Sir P. Procter, Major H. A. Train, Sir J.
Leckie, J. A. Radford, E. A. Tree, A. R. L. F.
Leech, Dr. J. W. Raikes, H. V. A. M. Tufnell. Lieut.-Com. R. L.
Lees-Jones, J. Ramsbotham, H. Wakefield, W. W.
Leigh, Sir J. Ramsden, Sir E. Walker-Smith, Sir J.
Leighton, Major B. E. P. Rankin, R. Wallace, Captain Evan
Lennox-Boyd, A. T. L. Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin) Ward, Irene (Wallsend)
Levy, T. Rayner, Major R. H. Warrender, Sir V.
Lewis, O. Reed, A. C. (Exeter) Waterhouse, Captain C.
Liddall, W. S. Reid, W. Allan (Derby) Wells, S. R.
Llewellin, Lieut.-Col. J. J. Rickards, G. W. (Skipton) Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Lloyd, G. W. Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool) Williams, C. (Torquay)
Loder, Captain Hon. J. de V. Ropner, Colonel L. Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Lovat-Fraser, J. A. Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Lumley, Capt. L. R. Rowlands, G. Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
MacAndrew, Lt.-Col. Sir C. G. Russell, A. West (Tynemouth) Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
M'Connell, Sir J. Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury) Wise, A. R.
McCorquodale, M. S. Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen) Withers, Sir J. J.
MacDonald, Rt. Hn. J. R. (Scot. U.) Salmon, Sir I. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) Salt, E. W. Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
McEwen, Capt. H. J. F. Samuel, Sir A. M. (Farnham)
McKie, J. H. Samuel. M. R. A. (Putney) TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Maclay, Hon. J. P. Sanderson, Sir F. B. Sir George Penny and Lieut.-
Colonel Sir A. Lambert Ward.
NOES.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Ede, J. C. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)
Adamson, W. M. Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) Kelly, W. T.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.
Ammon, C. G. Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Kirby, B. V.
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Foot, D. M. Lathan, G.
Banfield, J. W. Frankel, D. Lawson, J. J.
Barnes, A. J. Gallacher, W. Leach, W.
Barr, J. Gardner, B. W. Leonard, W.
Batey, J. Garro-Jones, G. M. Leslie, J. R.
Bellenger, F. George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Macdonald, G. (Ince)
Benson, G. George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) McGhee, H. G.
Bevan, A. Gibbins, J. McGovern, J.
Bromfield, W. Green, W. H. (Deptford) Maclean, N.
Brooke, W. Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. MacMillan, M. (Western Isles)
Burke, W. A. Grenfell, D. R. MacNeill, Weir, L.
Cape, T. Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Mander, G. le M.
Cassells, T. Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Marklew, E.
Chater, D. Griffiths, I. (Lianelly) Marshall, F.
Cluse, W. S. Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Mathers, G.
Clynes, Rt. Hon. J. R. Hardle, G. D. Maxton, J.
Cocks, F. S. Harris, Sir P. A. Messer, F.
Compton, J. Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) Milner, Major J.
Cove, W, G. Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Montague, F.
Daggar, G. Hicks, E. G. Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Ha'kn'y, S.)
Dalton, H. Holdsworth, H. Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)
Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill) Holland, A. Muff, G.
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Hollins, A. Naylor, T. E.
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Hopkin, D. Oliver, G. H.
Day, H. Jagger, J. Parker, H. J. H.
Dobble, W. Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) Pethick-Lawrence, F. W.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) Jones, A. C. (Shipley) Potts, J.
Price, M. P. Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'ly) Welsh, J. C.
Pritt, D. N. Smith, T. (Normanton) Westwood, J.
Quibell, J. D. Sorensen, R. W. White. H. Graham
Richards, R. (Wrexham) Stephen, C. Whiteley, W.
Ritson, J. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng) Wilkinson, Ellen
Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.) Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.) Williams, D. (Swansea, E.)
Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens) Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth) Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Rowson, G. Thorne, W. Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Seely, Sir H. M. Thurtie, E. Wilson. C. H. (Attercliffe)
Sexton, T. M. Tinker, J. J. Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Shinwell, E. Viant, S. P. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Short, A. Walkden, A. G. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Silverman, S. S. Walker, J.
Simpson, F. B. Watkins, F. C. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Sinclair, Bt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's) Watson, W. McL. Mr. Groves and Mr. Charleton.
Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe) Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. J. C.
Division No. 134.] AYES. [5.50 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. Findlay, Sir E. Morrison, W. S. (Cirencester)
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Fox, Sir G. W. G. Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J.
Albery, I. J. Fyfe, D. P. M. Munro, P.
Allen, Lt-Col. J. Sandeman (B'kn'hd) Ganzoni, Sir J. Neven-Spence, Maj. B. H.
Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir W. J. (Armagh) Gibson, C. G. Nicolson, Hon. H. G.
Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S. Gluckstein, L. H. O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh
Apsley, Lord Goodman, Col. A. W. Orr-Ewing, I. L.
Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) Gower, Sir R. V. Patrick, C. M.
Atholl, Duchess of Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral) Penny, Sir G.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Granville, E. L. Petherick, M.
Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet) Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J. Pickthorn, K. W. M.
Balniel, Lord Gridley, Sir A. B. Pilkington, R.
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Grigg, Sir E. W. M. Ponsonby, Col. C. E.
Baxter, A. Beverley Grimston, R. V. Porritt, R. W.
Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Gritten, W. G. Howard Procter, Major H. A.
Beit, Sir A. L. Guest, Maj. Hon. O.(C'mb'rw'll, N.W.) Radford, E. A.
Birchall, Sir J. D. Gunston, Capt. D. W. Raikes, H. V. A. M.
Blair, Sir R. Guy, J. C. M. Ramsay, Captain A. H. M.
Blindell, Sir J. Hamilton, Sir G. C. Ramsbotham, H.
Boothby, R. J. G. Hanbury, Sir C. Ramsden, Sir E.
Boulton, W. W. Hannah, I. C. Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)
Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart Hannon, Sir P. J. H. Rayner, Major R. H.
Bower, Comdr. R. T. Harbord, A. Reed, A. C. (Exeter)
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Harvey, G. Reid, W. Allan (Derby)
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Heligers, Captain F. F. A. Remer, J. R.
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Hepburn, P. G. T, Buchan- Rickards, G. W, (Skipton)
Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.) Herbert, A. P. (Oxford U.) Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)
Bull, B. B. Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Bullock, Capt. M. Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon) Rowlands, G.
Burton, Col. H. W. Holmes, J. S. Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.
Butt, Sir A. Hopkinson, A. Russell, A. West (Tynemouth)
Campbell, Sir E. T. Horsbrugh, Florence Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)
Cartland, J. R. H. Howitt, Dr. A. B. Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)
Carver, Major W. H. Hunter, T. Salmon, Sir I.
Cary, R. A. Hurd, Sir P. A. Salt, E. W.
Castlereagh, Viscount Jackson, Sir H. Samuel, Sir A. M. (Farnham)
Cayzer, Sir C. W. (City of Chester) James, wing-Commander A. W. Sanderson, Sir F. B.
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Keeling, E. H. Sandys, E. D.
Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose) Scott, Lord William
Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) Kerr, H. W. (Oldham) Selley, H. R.
Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) Kirkpatrick, W. M. Shakespeare, G. H.
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. Lamb, Sir J. Q. Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)
Clarke, F. E. Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. Shepperson, Sir E. W.
Cobb, Sir C. S. Latham, Sir P. Southby, Comdr. A. R. J.
Colfox, Major W. P. Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.) Spears, Brig.-Gen. E. L.
Cook, T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.) Leckle, J. A. Spens, W. P.
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Leech, Dr. J. W. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde)
Cooper, Rt. Hn.A. Duff(W'st'r S.G'gs) Lees-Jones, J. Srauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Cooper, Rt. Hon. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Leighton, Major B. E. P. Strickland, Captain W. F.
Courthope, Col. Sir G. L. Lennox-Boyd, A. T. L. Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Craddock, Sir R. H. Levy, T. Sutcliffe, H.
Cross, R. H. Lewis, O. Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)
Crossley, A. C. Liddall, W. S. Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby)
Crowder, J. F. E. Loder, Captain Hon. J. de V. Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Cuiverwell, C. T. Loftus, P. C. Titchfield, Marquess of
Davidson, Rt. Hon. Sir J. C. C. Lovat-Fraser, J. A. Touche, G. C.
Davies, Major G. F. (Yeovil) Lumley, Capt. L. R. Train, Sir J.
De Chair, S. S. Mac Andrew, Lt.-Col. Sir C. G. Tree, A. R. L. F.
De la Bère, R. McCorquodale, M. S. Tufnell, Lieut.-Com. R. L.
Denville, Alfred MacDonald, Rt. Hn. J. R. (Scot. U.) Wakefield, W. W.
Donner, P. W. Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) Wallace, Captain Euan
Dorman-Smith, Major R. H. McEwen, Capt. H. J. F. Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Drewe, C. McKie, J. H. Ward, Irene (Wallsend)
Duckworth, G. A. V. (Salop) Maclay, Hon. J. P. Warrender, Sir V.
Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side) Macnamara, Capt. J. R. J. Waterhouse, Captain C.
Dugdale, Major T. L. Manningham-Buller, Sir M. Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Duggan, H. J. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Wells, S. R.
Duncan, J. A. L. Markham, S. F. Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Dunglass, Lord Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M. Williams, C. (Torquay)
Eckersley, P. T. Maxwell, S. A. Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Edmondson, Major Sir J. Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E. Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Elliston, G. S. Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.) Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Emmott, C. E. G. C. Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Emrys-Evans, P. V. Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham)
Entwistle, C. F. Morgan, R. H. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Errington, E. Morris, O. T. (Cardiff, E.) Captain Hope and Lieut.-Colonel
Erskine Hill, A. G. Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.) Llewellin.
NOES.
Acland, R. T, D. (Barnstaple) Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Banfield, J. W.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Ammon, C. G. Barnes, A. J.
Adamson, W. M. Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Barr, J.
Batey, J. Harris, Sir P. A. Quibell, J. D.
Bellenger, F. Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) Rathbone, Eleanor (English Univ's.)
Benson, G. Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Bevan, A. Hicks, E. G. Ritson, J.
Broad, F. A. Holdsworth, H. Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.)
Bromfield, W. Holland, A. Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Brooke, W. Hollins, A. Seely, Sir H. M.
Burke, W. A. Hopkin, D. Sexton, T. M.
Cape, T. Jagger, J. Shinwell, E.
Cassells, T. Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) Short, A.
Charleton, H. C. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Simpson, F. B.
Chater, D. Jones, A. C. (Shipley) Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's)
Cluse, W. S. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Cocks, F. S. Kelly, W. T. Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'ly)
Compton, J. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Smith, T. (Normanton)
Cove, W. G. Kirby, B. V. Sorensen, R. W.
Daggar, G. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Dalton, H. Lathan, G. Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.)
Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill) Leach, W. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Leonard, W. Thorne, W.
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Leslie, J. R. Thurtie, E.
Day, H. McGhee, H. G. Tinker, J. J.
Debbie, W. MacLaren, A. Viant, S. P.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) Maclean, N. Walkden, A. G.
Ede, J. C. MacMillan, M. (Western Isles) Walker, J.
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) MacNeill, Weir, L. Watkins, F. C.
Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Mander, G. le M. Watson, W. McL.
Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. Marklew, E. Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. J. C.
Foot, D. M. Marshall, F. Welsh, J. C.
Frankel, D. Maxton, J. Westwood, J.
Gardner, B. W. Messer, F. White, H. Graham
George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Milner, Major J. Whiteley, W.
George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) Montague, F. Wilkinson, Ellen
Gibbins, J. Morrison, Rt. Hon. H (Ha'kn'y, S.) Williams, D (Swansea, E.)
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Muff, G. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Grenfell, D. R. Naylor, T. E. Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Oliver, G. H. Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Parker, H. J. H. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Griffiths, J. (Lianelly) Potts, J. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Price, M. P.
Hardie, G. D. Pritt, D. N. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Mr. Groves and Mr. Mathers.