§ Lords Amendment: In page 32, line 12, leave out "six" and insert "twelve."
§ 5.22 p.m.
§ Lord EUSTACE PERCY (Minister without Portfolio)I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
This Amendment has to be considered in conjunction with the two following Amendments: In line 15, after "a," to insert "continuous"; and in line 24, at the end, to insert:
(5) If the Governor-General, by a Proclamation under this Section, assumes to himself any power of the Federal Legislature to make laws, any law made by him in the exercise of that power shall subject to the terms thereof, continue to have effect until two years have elapsed from the date on which the Proclamation ceases to have effect, unless sooner repealed or re-enacted by Act of the appropriate Legislature; and any reference in this Act to Federal Acts, Federal laws, or Acts or laws of the Federal Legislature shall be construed as including a reference to such a law.These three Amendments are designed to meet a point which was raised during the Committee stage of the Bill in this House. A breakdown proclamation has to be renewed by vote of both Houses of Parliament here every six months. That procedure was not regarded as desirable by some hon. Members, if only from the point of view of machinery considerations. It might be difficult for this House to renew a proclamation every six 2525 months, because the House might not be sitting. It is now proposed to extend the period of renewal to 12 months. It is also provided that a proclamation shall not continue in all over a period of more than three years, and it was the evident intention of the House that that should be a continuous period and not two separate periods of 18 months, perhaps with an interval between them, under different proclamations. The third Amendment is to provide that any Act passed under an emergency proclamation shall last for two years after the expiry of that proclamation, unless it is sooner repealed by the Legislature. That is merely to ensure that there shall not be a gap after the period of breakdown between the emergency legislation and permanent legislation, but it is understood that the Legislature has the power to repeal it at any time after the expiry of the proclamation.
§ 5.24 p.m.
§ Mr. ATTLEEI disagree entirely with the first two of these Amendments, but I see no particular objection to the third. The first Amendment allows a proclamation to run for 12 months without having to come up again before this House. The Noble Lord has suggested that the six months might end at an inconvenient period, when this House is not sitting, but if we are to take any exact period, either six months or 12 months, such a contingency may equally well happen. Of course, provision can be made for such circumstances. The Noble Lord has given no real reason why the House should allow the suspension of the Constitution to run on for 12 months instead of six. After all, the suspension of a Constitution is a very important matter, and when the Constitution is suspended this House is responsible for affairs in India. I think six months is quite long enough.
As to the second Amendment, which introduces the word "continuous," Subsection (4) was designed to put a definite term of three years to the carrying on of the government of the Federation under a suspended Constitution. To insert "continuous" is really to defeat the whole purpose of Sub-section (4), because it means that an interval of a few
§ days or a week or so might allow the suspension of that constitutional government to continue year after year—for nine years or 10 years, or any other period. Surely the word "continuous" needs some qualification. The whole object of the Sub-section was to allow the Federation not to be suspended beyond three years. Therefore, we must vote against those two Amendments.
§ 5.27 p.m.
§ Viscount WOLMERI think it is very appropriate that my Noble Friend the Minister without Office—[HON. MEMBERS "Without Office?"] Yes, I prefer that to the un-English title. I was saying that it is appropriate that he should move that we agree with these Amendments, because it is my recollection that when very similar proposals were made by hon. Members in this House both the Attorney-General and the Under-Secretary made eloquent speeches explaining why the Government could not agree to them. Certainly that was the case regarding the extension of the period from six months to 12 months. Therefore, it is perhaps appropriate that a new Minister should be called upon to commend this change to the House. I wish to say that I welcome this Amendment, believing that the period of six months was altogether too short, and I hope the Government will stick to the Amendment.
§ 5.28 p.m.
§ The ATTORNEY-GENERALIn one observation which was made by the right hon. Member for Limehouse (Mr. Attlee) he was in error, if he will forgive me for saying so. He suggested that the 12 months would run from the beginning of the issue of this proclamation. That is not so. In the first instance it can continue only for a period of six months. It is after the end of this six months, and after there has been discussion in Parliament, that this second period, which must not exceed 12 months, must run. I think he will recognise that that is a substantial difference.
§ Question put, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 221; Noes, 42.
2529| Division No. 307.] | AYES. | [5.29 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Anstruther-Gray, W. J. | Atholl, Duchess of |
| Adams, Samuel Vyvyan T. (Leeds, W.) | Aske, Sir Robert William | Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley |
| Agnew, Lieut.-Com. P. G. | Assheton, Ralph | Balfour, Capt. Harold (I. of Thanet) |
| Barclay-Harvey, C. M. | Graves, Marjorie | Nunn, William |
| Barrie, Sir Charles Coupar | Grigg, Sir Edward | O'Donovan, Dr. William James |
| Beit, Sir Alfred L. | Grimston, R. V. | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William G. A. |
| Blindell, James | Guinness, Thomas L. E. B. | Orr Ewing, I. L. |
| Bowyer, Capt. Sir George E. W. | Gunston, Captain D. W. | Patrick, Colin M. |
| Braithwaite, Maj. A. N. (Yorks, E. R.) | Guy, J. C. Morrison | Pearson, William G. |
| Braithwaite, J. G. (Hillsborough) | Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H. | Peat, Charles U. |
| Brass, Captain Sir William | Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) | Percy, Lord Eustace |
| Briscoe, Capt. Richard George | Hanbury, Sir Cecil | Peters, Dr. Sidney John |
| Broadbent, Colonel John | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Petherick, M. |
| Brocklebank, C. E. R. | Hartington, Marquess of | Pickthorn, K. W. M. |
| Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) | Haslam, Henry (Horncastle) | Ponsonby, Col. C. E. |
| Brown, Rt. Hon. Ernest (Leith) | Headlam, Lieut.-Col. Sir Cuthbert | Radford, E. A. |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks., Newb'y) | Heilgers, Captain F. F. A. | Ramsay, Capt. A. H. M. (Midlothian) |
| Burgin, Dr. Edward Leslie | Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. | Ramsay, T. B. W. (Western Isles) |
| Burnett, John George | Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) | Ramsbotham, Herwald |
| Butier, Richard Austen | Herbert, Capt. S. (Abbey Division) | Reid, William Allan (Derby) |
| Cadogan, Hon. Edward | Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John Waller | Rickards, George William |
| Campbell, Sir Edward Taswell (Brmly) | Hore-Bellsha, Rt. Hon. Leslie | Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir Edward |
| Campbell-Johnston, Malcolm | Horsbrugh, Florence | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter |
| Caporn, Arthur Cecil | Howard, Tom Forrest | Runge, Norah Cecil |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Howitt, Dr. Alfred B. | Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury) |
| Cayzer, Maj. Sir H. R. (Prtsmth., S.) | Hudson, capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Rutherford, Sir John Hugo (Liverp'l) |
| Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) | Hudson, Robert Spear (Southport) | Salmon, Sir Isidore |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A. (Birm., W) | Hurd, Sir Percy | Samuel, M. R. A. (W'ds'wth, Putney). |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Edgbaston) | Hurst, Sir Gerald B. | Sandeman, Sir A. N. Stewart |
| Chapman, Sir Samuel (Edinburgh, S.) | Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas W. H. | Shakespeare, Geoffrey H. |
| Christie, James Archibald | Jackson, Sir Henry (Wandsworth, C.) | Shaw, Captain William T. (Forfar) |
| Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer | James, Wing Com. A. W. H. | Shute, Colonel Sir John |
| Clarke, Frank | Jamieson, Rt. Hon. Douglas | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Clayton, Sir Christopher | Jones, Lewis (Swansea, West) | Somervell, Sir Donald |
| Collins, Rt. Hon. Sir Godfrey | Ker, J. Campbell | Somerville, Annesley A. (Windsor) |
| Colville, Lieut.-Colonel J. | Kerr, Lieut.-Col. Charles (Montrose) | Spencer, Captain Richard A. |
| Conant, R. J. E. | Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univ.) | Spens, William Patrick |
| Cooke, Douglas | Keyes, Admiral Sir Roger | Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde) |
| Cooper, T. M. (Edinburgh, W.) | Kirkpatrick, William M. | Stevenson, James |
| Copeland, Ida | Knox, Sir Alfred | Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.) |
| Courthope, Colonel Sir George L. | Lamb, Sir Joseph Quinton | Storey, Samuel |
| Craddock, Sir Reginald Henry | Lambert, Rt. Hon. George | Strauss, Edward A. |
| Critchley, Brig.-General A. C. | Leckie, J. A. | Strickland, Captain W. F. |
| Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | Leighton, Major B. E. P. | Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) |
| Crooke, J. Smedley | Levy, Thomas | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid Hart |
| Crookshank, Capt. H. C. (Gainsb'ro) | Lewis, Oswald | Summersby, Charles H. |
| Croom-Johnson, R. P. | Liddall, Walter S. | Sutclifle, Harold |
| Cross, R. H. | Lindsay, Noel Ker | Tate, Mavis Constance |
| Crossley, A. C. | Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hn. G. (Wd. G'n) | Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne) |
| Cruddas, Lieut.-Colonel Bernard | Lockwood, John C. (Hackney, C.) | Thomas, James P. L. (Hereford) |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Mabane, William | Thompson, Sir Luke |
| Davison, Sir William Henry | MacAndrew, Lieut.-Col. Sir Charles | Thomson, Sir Douglas |
| Dickie, John P. | MacAndrew, Major J. O. (Ayr) | Thorp, Linton Theodore |
| Donner, P. W. | McCorquodale, M. S. | Todd, Lt.-Col. A. J. K. (B'wick-on-T.) |
| Doran, Edward | Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) | Touche, Gordon Cosmo |
| Duncan, James A. L. (Kensington, N.) | McEwen, Captain J. H. F. | Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L. |
| Eales, John Frederick | McLean, Dr. W. H. (Tradeston) | Turton, Robert Hugh |
| Eastwood, John Francis | Macpherson, Rt. Hon. Sir Ian | Wallace, Captain D. E. (Hornsey) |
| Edge, Sir William | Magnay, Thomas | Wallace, Sir John (Dunfermllne) |
| Emrys-Evans, P. V. | Makins, Brigadier-General Ernest | Ward, Lt.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull) |
| Entwistle, Cyril Fullard | Manningham-Buller, Lt.-Col. Sir M. | Wardlaw-Milne, Sir John S. |
| Erskine-Bolst, Capt. C. C. (Bik'pool) | Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. | Warrender, Sir Victor A. G. |
| Evans, R. T. (Carmarthen) | Mayhew, Lieut.-Colonel John | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Fermoy, Lord | Mellor, Sir J. S. P. | Wells, Sidney Richard |
| Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) | Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay) |
| Fleming, Edward Lascelles | Molson, A. Hugh Elsdale | Williams, Herbert G. (Croydon, S.) |
| Fraser, Captain Sir Ian | Morgan, Robert H. | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Fyfe, D. P. M. | Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) | Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir Arnold (Hertf'd) |
| Galbraith, James Francis Wallace | Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univer'ties) | Wise, Alfred R. |
| Gault, Lieut.-Col. A. Hamilton | Morrison, William Shephard | Wolmer, Rt. Hon. Viscount |
| Gluckstein, Louis Halle | Moss, Captain H. J. | Womersley, Sir Walter |
| Goodman, Colonel Albert W. | Muirhead, Lieut.-Colonel A, J. | |
| Graham, Sir F. Fergus (C'mb'rl'd, N.) | Munro, Patrick | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Granville, Edgar | Nation, Brigadier-General J. J. H. | Major George Davies and |
| Grattan-Doyle, Sir Nicholas | Nicholson, Godfrey (Morpeth) | Lieut.-Col. Llewellin. |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland, Rt. Hon. Sir Francis Dyke | Edwards, Sir Charles | Jenkins, Sir William |
| Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. Christopher | Foot, Dingle (Dundee) | Johnstone, Harcourt (S. Shields) |
| Attlee, Rt. Hon. Clement R. | Foot, Isaac (Cornwall, Bodmin) | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) |
| Banfield, John William | Gardner, Benjamin Walter | Logan, David Gilbert |
| Bernays, Robert | Gibbins, J. | Lunn, William |
| Bevan, Aneurin (Ebbw Vale) | Grenfell, David Rees (Glamorgan) | Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) |
| Cleary, J. J. | Griffiths, George A. (Yorks, W. Riding) | McEntee, Valentine L. |
| Cocks, Frederick Seymour | Hall, George H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) |
| Daggar, George | Hamilton, Sir R. W. (Orkney & Zetl'nd) | Mallalieu, Edward Lancelot |
| Davies, Stephen Owen | Harris, Sir Percy | Mander, Geoffrey le M. |
| Mason, David M. (Edinburgh, E.) | Tinker, John Joseph | Wood, Sir Murdoch McKenzle (Banff) |
| Paling, Wilfred | Williams, Edward John (Ogmore) | Young, Ernest J. (Middlesbrough, E.) |
| Parkinson, John Allen | Williams, Dr. John H. (Llanelly) | |
| Smith, Tom (Normanton) | Williams, Thomas (York, Don Valley) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Thorne, William James | Wilmot, John | Mr. D. Graham and Mr. Groves. |
Question put, and agreed to.
§ Subsequent Lords Amendments, to page 32, line 24, agreed to.