§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."
§ Mr. EDEI oppose this Clause, but I do not intend to inflict an original speech upon the Committee. I will recall the great speech which was delivered in this House, with dramatic effect, by the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, on the 27th April, 1927, when he opposed a similar increase in the Tobacco Duty, proposed by the right hon. Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill). His speech on that occasion was so biting and so concise that he said for all time all that is to be said on this question of an increase in the Tobacco Duty. Therefore, I propose to read the relevant sentences from his speech and to leave them as the case against this Clause. He began by reminding the right hon. Member for Epping of the danger of placing a tax upon tobacco in these days, when women had not only largely increased their consumption of tobacco but had been enfranchised and were in process of being still further enfranchised. He went on to say:
What is the case put forward by my hon. Friends "—The hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Mr. Dalton) and others had opposed this increase in the Tobacco Duty—against this increase of the Tobacco Duty? In the first place, they pointed out that tobacco being, as I think they very properly described it, a poor man's comfort, already bears a very heavy duty indeed. I am not quite sure, but I believe, with the possible exception of the Spirit Duty, tobacco is far more heavily taxed than any other commodity. I did not quite follow some of the figures that were given by my hon. friend who moved the Amendment, in regard to the proportion of the duty to the retail price of the article.The right hon. Gentleman went on to point out that in the Schedule of the Finance Bill the tax was placed at 11s. 2½d. In the Schedule of the present 408 Bill the tax has been raised to 12s. The right hon. Gentleman then used a phrase that was quoted all over the country by his supporters. He said:I do not smoke pipe tobacco, but I understand that tobacco will be retailed at from 10d. to 1s. an ounce. If you take it at 10d., I make it out that something like 17/20ths of the retail price of tobacco is duty. That is to say, when these new duties become operative, out of every 20 puffs of tobacco the working man blows, three are for his own enjoyment and 17 for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. How can a heavy duty like that be justified.[Interruption.] I am not aware that the right hon. Gentleman has to make serious mathematical calculations with the Chief Whip as to the majority that he is going to get in the Lobby. I have sat on the second bench and heard the Chief Whip talking with the Minister in charge of the House, and I know very well what they talk about on occasion.
§ The CHAIRMANPerhaps the hon. Member will get back to the Motion before the Committee.
§ Mr. EDEThe two Ministers in charge of this Measure were engaged in conversation with the Chief Whip while I was speaking. I should have thought that ordinary courtesy, especially when an hon. Member is directing his remarks specifically to them, would have meant that, at least, they might pay him the compliment of appearing to attend to him. The right hon. Gentleman said, in 1927, that the smoker took three puffs for his own enjoyment and 17 for the Chancellor of the Exchequer. From now onwards I estimate that he will have three puffs for his own enjoyment and at least 18 for the pleasure of the Chancellor of the Exchequer before he gets another one for his own enjoyment. After asking how a heavy duty like that could be justified, the right hon. Gentleman dealt with another point. The right hon. Member for Epping interrupted him and asked him to justify the same line of argument in regard to beer. After pointing out that beer was bad but that tobacco was good, because the beer was for the solace of somebody else and tobacco was his, he said: 409
I was dealing with the contention of my hon. Friend that the poor man pays a far larger proportion of the Tobacco Duty than those who can afford the more expensive tobaccos. Another argument is that a tax of this sort penalises a man according to his taste. Because one man happens to have a particular taste, or happens to spend some part of his means in a particular way, he is taxed, when a man who has not got that taste and chooses to spend the same amount of money on some other article which is not taxed, escapes taxation altogether.I oppose this Clause out of sheer kindness of heart, because I have not smoked for 10 years. It is impossible for me to smoke owing to my having been badly gassed during the War, but there seems to me to be no reason why I should escape taxation and other people should be taxed simply because their taste or their habits cause them to consume this particular commodity. Then the right hon. Gentleman in his peroration said:I shall be interested to hear the defence of this impost made by hon. Members opposite. I can imagine Members from agricultural constituencies going down and addressing public meetings of farm labourers, who are earning 30s. and 32s. per week"—That is what they get—and dilating to these men upon the blessings that are being showered on them by this Tory Government, chief among which
§ is this increase of ½d. per ounce upon what practically is the only comfort that these working men have. I wish them joy in doing that. We shall, of course, carry this Amendment to a Division. I hardly expect that we shall defeat the Government, but although we shall nut defeat the Government, this action on their part will be one addition to the indictment which they are piling up against themselves, and sentence will be passed upon them when the electors of the country next get an opportunity."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 27th April, 1927; cols. 859–861, 863, Vol. 205.]
§
The hon. Member for Central Hackney (Mr. Watkins) drew my attention earlier in the week to the issue of "Punch" of the 1st April, 1931, and having read that speech, with its clear enunciation of policy, a quotation from "Punch" of that date seems to be particularly apt. It was:
Things we have never dared to say. A schoolboy's essay: 'The Prime Minister is generally the First Lord of the Treachery.'
§ Never was that more apt than now—and in his second in command he has a very good Second Lord.
§ Question put, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 276; Noes, 216.
413| Division No. 504.] | AYES. | [5.49 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Buchan, John | Culverwell, C. T. (Bristol, West) |
| Aitchison, Ht. Hon. Craigie M. | Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T. | Cunliffe-Lister, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip |
| Albery, Irving James | Bullock, Captain Malcolm | Dalkeith, Earl of |
| Alexander, Sir Win. (Glasgow, Cent'l) | Burgin, Dr. E. L. | Dalrymple-White, Lt.-Col, Sir Godfrey |
| Allen, Sir J. Sandeman (Liverp'l., W.) | Butler, R. A. | Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford) |
| Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir William (Armagh) | Butt, Sir Alfred | Davies, Dr. Vernon |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Calne, Hall-, Derwent | Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) |
| Aske, Sir Robert | Campbell, E. T. | Dawson, Sir Philip |
| Astor, Maj. Hn. John J. (Kent, Dover) | Carver, Major W. H. | Denman, Hon. R. D. |
| Astor, Viscountess | Castle Stewart, Earl of | Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F. |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Cautley, Sir Henry S | Dixey, A. C. |
| Atkinson, C. | Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) | Dixon, Captain Rt. Hon. Herbert |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley (Bewdley) | Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R. (Prtsmth, S.) | Duckworth, G. A. V. |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord H. (Ox. Univ.) | Dudgeon, Major C. R. |
| Balfour, Captain H. H. (I. of Thanet) | Chadwick, Capt. Sir Robert Burton | Dugdale, Capt. T. L. |
| Balniel, Lord | Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. Sir J. A. (Birm., W.) | Eden, Captain Anthony |
| Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. p. H. | Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Edgbaston) | Edge, Sir William |
| Beaumont, M. W. | Chapman, Sir S. | Edmondson, Major A. J. |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon | Christie, J. A. | Elliot, Major Walter E. |
| Bennett, Sir E. N. (Cardiff, Central) | Church, Major A. G. | Elmley, viscount |
| Berry, Sir George | Clydesdale, Marquess of | England, Colonel A. |
| Betterton, Sir Henry B. | Cobb, Sir Cyril | Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) |
| Bevan, S. J. (Holborn) | Cockcrill, Brig.-General Sir George | Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) |
| Birchall, Major Sir John Dearman | Cohen, Major J. Brunel | Everard, W. Lindsay |
| Blinded, James | Colfox, Major William Philip | Falle, Sir Bertram G. |
| Boothby, R. J. G. | Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) | Ferguson, Sir John |
| Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart | Colville, Major D. J. | Fielden, E. B. |
| Bowyer, Captain Sir George E. W. | Conway, Sir W. Martin | Fison, F. G. Clavering |
| Boyce, Leslie | Cooper, A. Duff | Foot, Isaac |
| Bracken, B. | Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L. | Ford, Sir P. J. |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Crichton-Stuart, Lord C. | Forestier-Walker, Sir L. |
| Broadbent, Colonel J. | Cranborne, Viscount | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. |
| Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) | Croft, Brigadler-General Sir H. | Galbraith, J. F. W. |
| Brown, Ernest (Leith) | Crookshank, Capt. H. C. | Gault, Lieut.-Col. A. Hamilton |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) | Croom-Johnson, R. P. | George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) |
| George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesea) | Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (Handsw'th) | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) |
| Gillett, George M. | Long, Major Hon. Eric | Russell, Richard John (Eddisbury) |
| Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Lovat-Fraser, J. A. | Salmon, Major I. |
| Glassey, A. E. | Lymington, Viscount | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Glyn, Major R. G. C. | McConnell, Sir Joseph | Sandeman, Sir N. Stewart |
| Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) | MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Seaham) | Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip A. G. D. |
| Granville, E. | MacDonald, Malcolm (Bassetlaw) | Savery, S. S. |
| Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. | Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. | Scott, James |
| Gray, Milner | Macquisten, F. A. | Shakespeare, Geoffrey H. |
| Greaves-Lord, Sir Walter | Maitland, A. (Kent, Faversham) | Shepperson, Sir Ernest Whittome |
| Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John | Makins, Brigadier-General E. | Simms, Major-General J. |
| Griffith, F. Kingsley (Middlesbro' W.) | Margesson, Captain H. D. | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Gritten, W. G. Howard | Marjoribanks, Edward | Skelton, A. N. |
| Gunston, Captain D. W. | Markham, S. F. | Smith, Louis W. (Sheffield, Hallam) |
| H[...]ing, Rt. Hon. Douglas H. | Mason, Colonel Glyn K. | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Merriman, Sir F. Boyd | Smith-Carington, Neville W. |
| Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford) | Millar, J. D. | Smithers, Waldron |
| Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Zetland) | Milne, Wardlaw-, J. S. | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip |
| Hammersley, S. S. | Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) | Somerset, Thomas |
| Hanbury, C | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) | Southby, Commander A. R. J. |
| Harbord, A. | Morris, Rhys Hopkins | Spender-Clay, Colonel H. |
| Harris, Percy A. | Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. (Denbigh) | Stanley, Lord (Fylde) |
| Hartington, Marquess of | Morrison, W. S. (Glos., Cirencester) | Stanley, Hon. O. (Westmorland) |
| Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) | Muirhead, A. J. | Stewart, W. J. (Belfast, South) |
| Haslam, Henry C. | Nall-Cain, A. R. N. | Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) |
| Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) | Nathan, Major H. L. | Sueter, Rear-Admiral M. F. |
| Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby) |
| Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. | Nicholson, O. (Westminster) | Thomas, Major L. B. (King's Norton) |
| Hills, Major Rt. Hon. John Waller | Nicholson, Col. Rt. Hn. W. G. (Ptrsf'ld) | Thompson, Luke |
| Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar) | O'Connor, T. J. | Thomson, Mitchell-, Rt. Hon. Sir W. |
| Hore-Belisha, Leslie | Oliver, P. M. (Man., Blackley) | Titchfield, Major the Marquess of |
| Horne, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert S. | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William | Todd, Capt. A. J. |
| Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. | Owen, Major G. (Carnarvon) | Train, J. |
| Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Hurd, Percy A. | Perkins, W. R. D. | Turton, Robert Hugh |
| Hurst, Sir Gerald B. | Peters, Dr. Sidney John | Wallace, Capt. D. E. (Hornsey) |
| Hutchison, Maj.-Gen. Sir R. | Peto, Sir Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Walters, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Tudor |
| Inskip, Sir Thomas | Power, Sir John Cecil | Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. Lambert |
| Jones, Llewellyn-, F. | Pownall, Sir Assheton | Warrender, Sir Victor |
| Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton) | Purbrick, R. | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Pybus, Percy John | Wayland, Sir William A. |
| Jones, Rt. Hon. Leif (Camborne) | Ramsay, T. B. Wilson | Wells, Sydney R. |
| Jowitt, Rt. Hon. Sir W. A. (Preston) | Ramsbotham, H. | White, H. G. |
| Kedward, R. M. (Kent, Ashford) | Rathbone, Eleanor | Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay) |
| Kindersley, Major G. M. | Rawson, Sir Cooper | Wilson, G. H. A. (Cambridge U.) |
| Knight, Holford | Reid, David D. (County Down) | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Knox, Sir Alfred | Remer, John R. | Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl |
| Lamb, Sir J. O. | Rentoul, Sir Gervals S. | Withers, Sir John James |
| Lambert, Rt. Hon. George (S. Molton) | Rhys, Hon. C. A. U. | Womersley, W. J. |
| Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R. | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) | Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley |
| Latham, H. P. (Scarboro' & Whitby) | Roberts, Sir Samuel (Ecclesall) | Wood, Major McKenzie (Banff) |
| Law, Sir Alfred (Derby, High Peak) | Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs, Stretford) | Wright, Brig.-Gen. W. D. (Tavist'k) |
| Leighton, Major B. E. P. | Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell | Young, Rt. Hon. Sir Hilton |
| Lewis, Oswald (Colchester) | Rosbotham, D. S. T. | |
| Llewellin, Major J. J. | Rothschild, J. de | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey | Ruggles-Brise, Colonel E. | Sir Frederick Thomson and Sir |
| George Penny. | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Brown, W. J. (Wolverhampton, West) | Edmunds, J. E. |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Buchanan, G. | Edwards, E. (Morpeth) |
| Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (Hillsbro') | Burgess, F. G. | Egan, W. H. |
| Alpass, J. H. | Buxton, C. R. (Yorks. W. R. Elland) | Forgan, Dr. Robert |
| Ammon, Charles George | Cameron, A. G. | Freeman, Peter |
| Arnott, John | Cape, Thomas | Gardner, B. W. (West Ham, Upton) |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S.W.) | Gardner, J. P. (Hammersmith, N.) |
| Ayles, Walter | Charleton, H. C. | Gibbins, Joseph |
| Baker, John (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Chater, Daniel | Gill, T. H. |
| Baldwin, Oliver (Dudley) | Clarke, J. S. | Gossling, A. G. |
| Barnes, Alfred John | Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. | Gould, F. |
| Barr, James | Cocks, Frederick Seymour | Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) |
| Batey, Joseph | Compton, Joseph | Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) |
| Bennett, William (Battersea, South) | Cove, William G. | Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. (Colne) |
| Benson, G. | Cripps, Sir Stafford | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) |
| Bowen, J. W. | Daggar, George | Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Dallas, George | Groves, Thomas E. |
| Broad, Francis Alfred | Dalton, Hugh | Grundy, Thomas W. |
| Brockway, A. Fenner | Davies, D. L. (Pontypridd) | Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) |
| Bromfield, William | Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) |
| Bromley, J. | Day, Harry | Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) |
| Brooke, W. | Dukes, C. | Hall, Capt. W. G. (Portsmouth, C.) |
| Brothers, M. | Duncan, Charles | Hamilton, Mary Agnes (Blackburn) |
| Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (South Ayrshire) | Ede, James Chuter | Hardie, David (Rutherglen) |
| Hardie, G. D. (Springburn) | Marcus, M. | Sinkinson, George |
| Hastings, Dr. Somerville | Marley, J. | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Hayes, John Henry | Marshall, Fred | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) |
| Henderson, Arthur, Junr. (Cardiff, S.) | Mathers, George | Smith, Frank (Nuneaton) |
| Henderson, Joseph (Ardwick) | Maxton, James | Smith, Tom (Pontefract) |
| Henderson, Thomas (Glasgow) | Messer, Fred | Snowden, Thomas (Accrington) |
| Henderson, W, W. (Middx., Enfield) | Middleton, G. | Sorensen, R. |
| Herriotts, J. | Mills, J. E. | Stamford, Thomas W. |
| Hicks, Ernest George | Milner, Major J. | Stephen, Campbell |
| Hirst, G. H. (York W. R. Wentworth) | Montague, Frederick | Strachey, E. J. St. Loe |
| Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Morgan, Dr. H. B. | Strauss, G. R. |
| Hoffman, P. C. | Morley, Ralph | Sullivan, J. |
| Hollins, A. | Mort, D. L. | Sutton, J. E. |
| Hopkin, Daniel | Muggeridge, H. T. | Taylor, R. A. (Lincoln) |
| Horrabin, J, F. | Murnin, Hugh | Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow) |
| Isaacs, George | Naylor, T. E. | Thurtle, Ernest |
| Jenkins, Sir William | Noel-Burton, Baroness (Norfolk, N.) | Tillett, Ben |
| John, William (Rhondda, West) | Oldfield, J. R. | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) | Oliver, George Harold (Ilkeston) | Toole, Joseph |
| Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Palin, John Henry | Tout, W. J. |
| Jowett, Rt. Hon. F. W. | Paling, Wilfrid | Turner, Sir Ben |
| Kelly, W. T. | Palmer, E. T. | Vaughan, David |
| Kennedy, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) | Viant, S. P. |
| Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M. | Perry, S. F. | walkden, A. G. |
| Kinley, J. | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Walker, J. |
| Kirkwood, D. | Phillips, Dr. Marlon | Wallace, H. W. |
| Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George | Pole, Major D. G. | Watkins, F. C. |
| Lathan, G. (Sheffield, Park) | Potts, John S. | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline) |
| Law, A. (Rossendale) | Price, M. P. | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Lawrence, Susan | Quibell, D. J. K. | Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Joslah |
| Lawrie, Hugh Hartley (Stalybridge) | Raynes, W. R. | Wellock, Wilfred |
| Lawson, John James | Richards, R. | Welsh, James (Paisley) |
| Lawther, W. (Barnard Castle) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Welsh, James C. (Coatbridge) |
| Leach, W. | Riley, Ben (Dewsbury) | West, F. R. |
| Lee, Frank (Derby, N.E.) | Riley, F. F. (Stockton-on-Tees) | Westwood, Joseph |
| Leonard, W. | Ritson, J. | Whiteley, Wilfrid (Birm., Ladywood) |
| Lewis, T. (Southampton) | Romeril, H. G. | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| Logan, David Gilbert | Rowson, Guy | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
| Longbottom, A. W. | Salter, Dr. Alfred | Williams, E. J. (Ogmore) |
| Longden, F. | Samuel, H. Walter (Swansea, West) | Williams Dr. J. H (Llanelly) |
| Lunn, William | Sawyer, G. F. | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Macdonald, Gordon (Ince) | Scrymgeour, E. | Wilson, J. (Oldham) |
| McElwee, A. | Sexton, Sir James | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| McKinlay, A. | Shepherd, Arthur Lewis | Wise, E. F. |
| MacLaren, Andrew | Shield, George William | Young, R. S. (Islington, North) |
| Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) | Shillaker, J F. | Young, Sir R. (Lancaster, Newton) |
| MacNeill-Weir, L. | Shinwell, E. | |
| Mansfield, W. | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| March, S. | Simmons, C. J. | Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. |
| William Whiteley. |