GOODS MADE BY FORCED LABOUR.

HC Deb 21 April 1931 vol 251 cc807-14

Commander OLIVER LOCKER - LAMPSON

I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to prohibit the importation of goods made by foreign forced labour. It is the custom of hon. Members when introducing Bills under the Ten-Minutes Rule to plead the non-partisan character of their proposals and to ask to be allowed to base any particular argument they are putting forward upon something higher than mere faction. I would like to join their ranks on this occasion with the same plea. I wish to approach this subject without any venom or any bias. I would leave to others the advocacy of an embargo on foreign made goods, and to yet others the advocacy of tariffs for such a purpose; I wish to be entirely non-party, seeing that this is not a party question at all. It rises above party questions into the realm of right and wrong. It is a question of ethics as well as of economics; it is a question of honour as well as of trade. Briefly, the issue is this. Goods are being imported from Russia at debauched prices for reasons which do not prevail in this country at all. First of all, the State in Russia is the trader. The State expropriated property in Russia, and was thereby enabled to produce cheaper than anybody in this country can produce. Secondly, in Russia the standard of living is lower than it is in this country. Lastly, it is admitted that goods are produced in Russia by forced labour, which is a vital and final element in production, contributing to cheap prices. Three times over, therefore, there are exclusive causes operating for cheapness in Russia such as do not operate in this country.

It is not for me, in the course of 10 minutes, to argue the question of whether or not goods are made by forced labour in Russia. That has been admitted by representatives of the Government, and I am not here to deny what is obvious; but I would point out that those conditions do not operate in England. The State is not the trader in England, and the State has not expropriated the property of its citizens, secondly, we have in England laws against sweating, and while it is perfectly true that our ideal in protecting the worker has not yet been reached we have in many industries taken steps to prevent sweating. We go a step further. There is one category of workers in this country who are forced to work for nothing and against their will—or practically for nothing—and that is the prisoners who work and labour in our prisons. We look so badly upon those goods that we do not permit them to come into competition with goods produced outside the prisons. Thus you have twice over laws which prevent the production of goods by any form of labour damaging to the community and unfair to the workers. Which party is it who professes to be the keenest against sweating We know that hon. Members opposite are always advocating a further extension of anti-sweating legislation. Will they remember that when they are dealing with goods which come from Russia?

I would ask His Majesty's Government just this—not to treat England worse than Russia. Why penalise British goods by permitting the introduction of goods from Russia which are not merely stolen, but sweated out of the life's blood of disinherited peasants and political prisoners? We have got a record of freedom, a love of freedom second to none. We entered the Great War because it was a fight for freedom, as we believed. We have won the fight for freedom on every front in our history—economic, political and religious. It was English voices raised in this House that sounded the death-knell of black slavery across the seas. It was 300,000 working people of England—[An HON. MEMBER "Britain!"]—of the United Kingdom, 300,000 citizens in the time of Wilberforce who went without sugar for years sooner than encourage slave labour in the West Indies. They were people who would be called Socialists to-day.

All I ask is that the Socialists of to-day should raise the voice of protest against the entry of these goods into our markets. Are there any Socialists to-day refusing these tainted goods? On the contrary, all that has happened is that His Majesty's Government have recognised the nation under which this has been possible, and have taken no action whatever, although we know that Belgium and the United States and, lastly, one of our Dominions, Canada, has taken strong action in the past few months.

I would appeal to all parties to stop the encouragement of this shame. Some people may get a temporary advantage from it. But is it worth while? Socialists say that they are proud of their international ideals, and they speak a great deal about the solidarity of the workers of the world. Do they like to see their brethren in Russia starving in order that Englishmen may be full? Can they stand up and in their hearts honestly support this trafficking in flesh and blood? They may say that it is impossible to introduce an embargo. I accept that for the moment, but I would say that they can invite the League of Nations to act. We have been told that the reason why they cannot invite the League of Nations to act is because Russia is not a member of the League. But another Government outside the League acted when Liberia got into difficulties over slavery conditions.

We are told that the case of Liberia is not analogous to that of Russia, as Liberia is a member of the League. I would remind hon. Members opposite that it was not a member of the League of Nations which invited the League to step in. It was the United States of America, and if the United States of America was able to invite the League to intervene in the case of a small country like Liberia, why should our Government not invite the same State to take action in the case of Russia? The Cabinet may wish to keep friends with a Government in Russia which preaches the brotherhood of man with bombs and bullets. But that slavery has been proved, and it is the duty of every honest citizen to stamp it out. The conscience of the world is outraged by this horror. It is cowardly, it is un-English, it is caddish to encourage it one moment longer.

Mr. R. A. TAYLOR

The hon. and gallant Member has used the opportunity in moving to introduce a Bill under the 10 Minutes' Rule to make a very thinly-disguised attack upon Russia. The whole of his speech was devoted to an attack upon Russian labour conditions, and he gave no indication that in any other part of the world less favourable conditions exist than in the case of Russia. My hon. and gallant Friend professes a great enthusiasm for the British Empire, but those who have been in various parts of the British Empire know perfectly well that in some parts, owing to the low productivity of labour and the other conditions surrounding the lives of people in those parts of the Empire, rates of wages, hours of labour and conditions generally are far worse than amongst the industrial classes of Russia. [HON. MEMBERS: "Where?"] In India, Africa and the West Indies you will find conditions even worse than those existing amongst the industrial classes of Soviet Russia—[Interruption.] If hon. Members opposite are honest, they will be anxious to deal with goods produced by forced labour whether produced in Russia or in the British Empire. But that is not the proposal which my hon. Friend has brought forward.

As a matter of fact, all this tirade about forced labour in Russia, particularly with regard to timber, is simply a ramp in order to prejudice the marketing of Russian timber in this country, and, so far as the sale of Russian products generally is concerned, it is obvious that the Russians themselves would be extremely pleased if world conditions enabled them to get a higher price than they are able to get for their products. It is ridiculous to suggest that the Russians are deliberately building up a system in order to dump goods in this country at the lowest possible price. Why should they do anything of the kind? They buy our machinery from places like the city of Lincoln and pay for this machinery with the money received from the sale of their goods in this country, and it is ridiculous to suggest they are using forced or prison labour in order to send goods into this country at a low price. This is simply a propagandist effort in order to stir up ill-will and hostility, and to prevent the development of possible economic relations. This is the kind of thing which does great harm to the people who are engaged in Anglo-Russian trade, and who want a different atmosphere in which to develop business involving long-term credits. I would like to quote from the "Manchester Guardian" of 11th February of this year, from a letter written by Dr. E. A. Ferguson, former Medical Inspector of Lumber Camps in Northern Canada. Ho says: Will you allow me to make a few comments on one of the affidavits which accompany Commander Carlyon Bellairs's letter to the Premier, as reported in your issue of the 9th? I hold no brief for the Soviet Government, but to one who has been medical inspector of lumber camps in Northern Canada, a region similar both in climate and flora to Northern Russia, the whole affidavit appears to have been written by someone who knows nothing of lumbering or lumber camps. In the first place, the writer says these Russian camps are situated where the soil is frozen more or less the whole year. Then he save that the men work from five in the morning till eight in the evening. As the sun rises in these regions in the winter-time at nine in the morning and sets at four in the afternoon, the men must be working for eight hours in total darkness, and that in a dense forest! Then he says a man must cut down thirty-five trees a day. A good timber country will average about thirty-five trees to the acre, trees worth cutting, so a man clears an acre a day! And these trees are to be cut at soil level. You might imagine a man sawing down a tree at soil level in the summer time, but not in the winter, with six feet of

snow on the ground and everything frozen solid."

That is from a man who was the former Medical Inspector of Lumber Camps in Northern Canada, and who is by no means prejudiced in favour of Soviet Russia. My hon. and gallant Friend who made this attack upon the importation of Russian goods into this country, might have been warned by a statement recently issued by a very great friend of his, Dr. Eduard Luboff, who runs an information bureau in this country with reference to Russian affairs. It was to this effect: Offers of affidavits and sworn declarations from escaped Soviet prisoners are reaching this country from Finland, Poland and other countries. The majority of these affidavits are fictitious, and British politicians and business men are warned against purchasing these 'documents.' The Editor of this Service has recently examined a number of these declarations, and he has found them unreliable and misleading. I say that the whole of this ramp about forced labour conditions in Russia is simply an endeavour to prejudice the sale of Russian goods, and stop the development of trade as between Russia and this country. Therefore, I hope that the House will reject this Motion.

Question put, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to prohibit the importation of goods made by foreign forced labour.

The House divided: Ayes, 137; Noes, 166.

Division No. 218.]	AYES.	[4.49 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel	Cluse, W. S.	Gower, Sir Robert
Atholl, Duchess of	Clydesdale, Marquess of	Grace, John
Atkinson, C.	Cobb, Sir Cyril	Granville, E.
Baillie-Hamilton, Hon. Charles W.	Colfox, Major William Philip	Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley (Bewdley)	Colman, N. C. D	Groves, Thomas E.
Balniel, Lord	Colville, Major D. J.	Gunston, Captain D. W.
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H.	Cooper, A. Duff	Hacking, Rt. Hon. Douglas H.
Beaumont, M. W.	Crichton-Stuart, Lord C.	Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich)
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon	Crookshank, Capt. H. C.	Hamilton, Sir George (Ilford)
Berry, Sir George	Culverwell, C. T. (Bristol, West)	Hanbury, C.
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft	Dalkeith, Earl of	Harbord, A.
Bowyer, Captain Sir George E. W.	Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford)	Hartington, Marquess of
Boyce, Leslie	Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil)	Hastings, Dr. Somerville
Briscoe, Richard George	Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.)	Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley)
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y)	Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F.	Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J.
Buchan-Hepburn, P. G. T.	Duckworth, G. A. V.	Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G.
Butler, R. A.	Dugdale, Capt. T. L.	Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K.
Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward	Elliot, Major Walter E.	Hudson, Capt. A. U. M.(Hackney, N.)
Campbell, E. T.	Everard, W. Lindsay	Hurd, Percy A.
Carver, Major W. H.	Falle, Sir Bertram G.	Inskip, Sir Thomas
Castle Stewart, Earl of	Fison, F. G. Clavering	Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth)
Cautley, Sir Henry S.	Foot, Isaac	Lamb, Sir J. Q.
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City)	Forestier-Walker, Sir L.	Lambert, Rt. Hon. George (S. Molton)
Cazalet, Captain Victor A.	Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E.	Law, Sir Alfred (Derby, High Peak)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Edgbaston)	Ganzoni, Sir John	Leighton, Major B. E. P.
Chapman, Sir S.	Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John	Lewis, Oswald (Colchester)
Christie, J. A.	Gould, F.	Llewellin, Major J. J.
Locker-Lampson, Rt. Hon. Godfrey	Penny, Sir George	Thomas, Major L. B. (King's Norton)
Long, Major Hon. Eric	Rawson, Sir Cooper	Thompson, Luke
Longden, F.	Reid, David D. (County Down)	Thomson, Sir F.
Lymington, Viscount	Remer, John R.	Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.)	Rentoul, Sir Gervals S.	Todd, Capt. A. J.
McElwee, A.	Reynolds, Col. Sir James	Train, J.
Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I.	Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell	Vaughan-Morgan, Sir Kenyon
Maitland, A. (Kent, Faversham)	Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)	Wallace, Capt. D. E. (Hornsey)
Makins, Brigadier-General E.	Salmon, Major I.	Ward, Lieut-Col. Sir A. Lambert
Margesson, Captain H. D.	Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)	Warrender, Sir Victor
Marjoribanks, Edward	Sandeman, Sir N. Stewart	Wells, Sydney R.
Marley, J.	Shepperson, Sir Ernest Whittome	Whiteley, Wilfrid (Birm., Ladywood)
Milne, Wardlaw-, J. S.	Smith, Louis W. (Sheffield, Hallam)	Williams, Charles (Devon, Torquay)
Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B.	Smith-Carington, Neville W.	Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr)	Somerset, Thomas	Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Muirhead, A. J.	Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)	Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge)	Stanley, Lord (Fylde)
Nicholson, Col. Rt. Hn. W. G. (Ptrsf'ld)	Steel-Maitland, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur	TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
O'Connor, T. J.	Sueter, Rear-Admiral M. F.	Commander Locker-Lampson and
Peake, Captain Osbert	Taylor, W. B. (Norfolk, S.W.)	Sir Basil Peto.
NOES.
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock)	Horrabin, J. F.	Pole, Major D. G.
Arnott, John	Hudson, James H. (Huddersfield)	Potts, John S.
Attlee, Clement Richard	John, William (Rhondda, West)	Price, M. P.
Ayles, Walter	Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)	Raynes, W. R.
Baker, John (Wolverhampton, Bilston)	Jowett, Rt. Hon. F. W.	Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)
Barnes, Alfred John	Kennedy, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Riley, Ben (Dewsbury)
Barr, James	Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M.	Ritson, J.
Batey, Joseph	Knight, Holford	Romeril, H. G.
Bennett, Sir E. N. (Cardiff, Central)	Lang, Gordon	Rosbotham, D. S. T.
Bennett, William (Battersea, South)	Lansbury, Rt. Hon. George	Rowson, Guy
Benson, G.	Lathan, G.	Salter, Dr. Alfred
Bondfield, Rt. Hon. Margaret	Law, Albert (Bolton)	Sandham, E.
Bowen, J. W.	Law, A. (Rossendale)	Sawyer, G. F.
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W.	Lawrence, Susan	Scrymgeour, E.
Bromfield, William	Lawson, John James	Sherwood, G. H.
Brooke, W.	Lawther, W. (Barnard Castle)	Shield, George William
Brothers, M	Leach, W.	Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (South Ayrshire)	Lee, Frank (Derby, N.E.)	Shinwell, E.
Buxton, C. R. (Yorks, W. R. Elland)	Lee, Jennie (Lanark, Northern)	Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Cameron, A. G.	Lees, J.	Simmons, C. J.
Cape, Thomas	Lewis, T. (Southampton)	Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)
Carter, W. (St. Pancras, S.W.)	Lloyd, C. Ellis	Smith, Rennie (Penistone)
Cocks, Frederick Seymour	Longbottom, A. W.	Smith, Tom (Pontefract)
Compton, Joseph	Lovat-Fraser, J. A.	Sorensen, R.
Cove, William G.	Lunn, William	Stamford, Thomas W.
Daggar, George	Macdonald, Gordon (Ince)	Strauss, G. R.
Dallas, George	McEntee, V. L.	Sutton, J. E.
Davies, D. L. (Pontypridd)	McKinlay, A.	Thorne, W. (West Ham Plaistow)
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton)	MacNeill-Weir, L.	Thurtle, Ernest
Denman, Hon. R D.	McShane, John James	Tillett, Ben
Dudgeon, Major C. R.	Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton)	Tinker, John Joseph
Dukes, C.	Manning, E. L.	Toole, Joseph
Duncan, Charles	Mansfield, W.	Tout, W. J.
Ede, James Chuter	March, S.	Townend, A. E.
Edmunds, J. E.	Marcus, M.	Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles
Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty)	Marshall, Fred	Vaughan, David
Edwards, E. (Morpeth)	Mathers, George	Viant, S. P.
Elmley, Viscount	Maxton, James	Walker, J.
Freeman, Peter	Milner, Major J.	Wallace, H. W.
Gardner, B. W. (West Ham, Upton)	Morgan. Dr. H. B.	Watkins, F. C.
Gardner, J. P. (Hammersmith, N.)	Morley, Ralph	Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Gibson, H. M. (Lancs. Mossley)	Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.)	Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Gill, T. H.	Morrison, Robert C. (Tottenham, N.)	Welsh, James (Paisley)
Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.)	Mort, D. L.	West, F. R.
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan)	Muff, G.	Williams, David (Swansea, East)
Grundy, Thomas W.	Muggeridge, H. T.	Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly)
Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil)	Murnin, Hugh	Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Hall, Capt. W. G. (Portsmouth, C.)	Naylor, T. E.	Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe)
Hamilton, Mary Agnes (Blackburn)	Noel-Buxton, Baroness (Norfolk, N.)	Wilson, J. (Oldham)
Hardie, George D.	Oldfield, J. R.	Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Haycock, A. W.	Oliver, George Harold (Ilkeston)	Wise, E. F.
Hayday, Arthur	Palin, John Henry	Young, R. S. (Islington, North)
Hayes, John Harvey	Paling, Wilfrid
Henderson, Thomas (Glasgow)	Palmer, E. T.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Herriotts, J.	Perry, S. F.	Mr. R. A. Taylor and Miss Wilkinson.
Hirst, G. H. (York W. R. Wentworth)	Phillips, Dr. Marion
Hopkin, Daniel	Picton-Turbervill, Edith

Question put, and agreed to.