Commons Sitting of 25 July 1929

Preamble
The House met at a Quarter before Three of the Clock, Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
Ministry of Health Provisional Orders (No. 3) Bill,
Lords Amendments considered, and agreed to.
Dunfermline and District Traction Order Confirmation Bill [Lords],
Read a Second time; considered; read the Third time, and passed, without Amendment.

ELECTION EXPENSES.
Address for "Return of Expenses of each Candidate at the General Election of May, 1929, in Great Britain and Northern Ireland, as declared to the returning officer pursuant to the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Act, 1883, and of the number of votes polled to each candidate, the number of polling districts and stations, the number of electors and the number of absent voters (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 1, of Session 1926)."—[Mr. Short.]
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.
  UNEMPLOYMENT.

    BENEFIT (REGULATIONS).
    Mr. THURTLEasked the Minister of Labour if she proposes to issue any fresh regulations in the near future prescribing the evidence required as to the fulfilment of the condition genuinely seeking work by applicants for unemployment benefit?
    Mr. BUCHANANasked the Minister of Labour what steps, if any, have been taken to modify the administration of
    1448
    the present Insurance Act, with particular relationship to the clause not genuinely seeking work?
    The MINISTER of LABOUR (Miss Bondfield): There is nothing I can add at present to the reply I gave to the hon. Member for Pontefract (Mr. T. Smith) on 18th July, of which I am sending my hon. Friends a copy.
    Mr. JAMES WILSONasked the Minister of Labour whether she is aware that under existing regulations trades union members who have exhauted their trades union benefit are required to make individual instead of an association claim for unemployment benefit; and whether she will take steps to remove this unnecessary inconvenience to unemployed members of trade unions?
    Miss BONDFIELD: Yes, Sir; in general, the concurrent payment of association benefit by associations administering State benefit is required by Statute. Regulations made in pursuance of the Statutes prescribe certain exceptions designed to minimise inconvenience, but the general principle has to be observed. If my hon. Friend has in mind any particular difficulties, however, I should be glad to consider them.
    Mr. STEPHENasked the Minister of Labour what regulations have been made under Clause 35 (1) (b) of the Unemployment Insurance Act, 1920, prescribing the evidence which may be required from the applicant for unemployment benefit; and what evidence, in particular, may be required for the satisfaction of the statutory condition regarding genuinely seeking employment?
    Miss BONDFIELD: I would invite my hon. Friend's attention to the Unemployment Insurance (Benefit) Regulations, 1920, and the Unemployment Insurance Benefit (Amendment) Regulations, 1928. The matter is one which falls expressly within the terms of reference of the Committee under the Chairmanship of Sir Harold Morris, which will, no doubt, deal with it in their Report.
    Mr. STEPHEN: Will the Minister send me a copy of those regulations?
    Miss BONDFIELD: Certainly.
    Mr. MACPHERSON: Is the question of "genuinely seeking work" to be considered by the Committee?
    Miss BONDFIELD: Yes, it falls within the terms of reference.
    Mr. STEPHEN: Are the regulations mentioned by the Minister the regulations which are referred to in the statutory obligation?
    Miss BONDFIELD: They are the regulations under which the machinery is working at present.
    Mr. MOSES: How long will it be before we may expect a report?
    Miss BONDFIELD: I said yesterday that I hoped to have the report available before the House meets again.

    INSURANCE ADMINISTRATION (COMMITTEE OF INQUIRY).
    Mr. TOM SMITHasked the Minister of Labour if she is in a position to state the names of the Committee to be appointed to inquire into unemployment insurance administration?
    Miss BONDFIELD: I have appointed the following as a Committee to consider and report to me upon the constitution and procedure of statutory authorities performing the functions of insurance officers, and Courts of Referees under the Unemployment Insurance Acts, and the nature of the evidence to be required as to the fulfilment of the conditions or the absence of the disqualifications for the receipt of unemployment benefit under the Acts:

    Sir Harold Morris, K.C., President of the Industrial Court (Chairman);

    Mr. John A. Gregorson, nominated by the National Confederation of Employers' Organisations;

    Mr. A. Hayday, M.P., nominated by the Trades Union Congress General Council;

    Councillor Mrs. Adams, member of the Northampton Borough Council, Northampton Board of Guardians, and member of Employed Persons' Panel of Northampton Court' of Referees;

    Professor F. Tillyard, C.B.E., Chairman of Birmingham Court of Referees, 1913–1928; and

    Mr. J. F. G. Price, C.B., Principal Assistant Secretary, Ministry of Labour.

    Mr. H. R. Hodges, Montagu House, Whitehall, will act as Secretary of the Committee.

    1450
    It will be noted that in addition to the membership which, as stated in my reply to the hon. Member for Pontefract (Mr. T. Smith) on the 18th July, I originally proposed for this Committee, I have decided to include a woman member.
    Viscountess ASTOR: Only one?

    EXCHANGE FACILITIES, CALVERTON, NOTTS.
    Mr. COCKSasked the Minister of Labour whether her attention has been drawn to the lack of Employment Exchange facilities at Calverton, Nottinghamshire; and whether she has been able to come to any decision in the matter?
    Miss BONDFIELD: My hon. Friend has written to me on this subject. I am making inquiries and will let him know my decision as soon as possible.

    BETHNAL GREEN.
    Major NATHANasked the Minister of Labour (1) whether she will state, for each month from January, 1924, onwards, the number of persons unemployed in Bethnal Green and the number of persons, at the latest available date, who have exhausted their right to, unemployment benefit;
    (2) whether she will state, for each month from January, 1924, onwards, the number of persons unemployed in West Ham and the number of persons, at the latest available date, who have exhausted their right to unemployment benefit?
    Miss BONDFIELD: The only figures I can give are those for the numbers of persons on the registers, and as these take the form of tables I will, with the hon. and gallant Member's permission, circulate them in the OFFICIAL REPORT. I should add that, in the case of Bethnal Green, figures are only available from February, 1929. As there is now no numerical limit to the number of days of benefit that may be drawn provided that the minimum contribution qualification is satisfied, there is no group of persons who can be described as having "exhausted benefit."
    Major NATHAN: Can the Minister explain how it comes to (be that the figures for Bethnal Green are only available since February of this year?
    Miss BONDFIELD: Because that is the date when the new area was arranged.
    Following are the tables:

    PERSONS resident in the Metropolitan Borough of Bethnal Green on the registers of Employment Exchanges.

    —

    Men.

    Women.

    Juveniles.

    Total.

    1929.

    25th February

    …

    …

    …

    2,603

    480

    65

    3,148

    11th March

    …

    …

    …

    2,533

    470

    63

    3,066

    15th April

    …

    …

    …

    2,145

    395

    73

    2,613

    13th May

    …

    …

    …

    2,178

    388

    62

    2,628

    17th June

    …

    …

    …

    2,215

    397

    46

    2,658

    15th July

    …

    …

    …

    2,274

    404

    47

    2,725

    PERSONS on the REGISTERS of the Employment Exchanges at Canning Town and Stratford.

    Date.

    Number.

    Date.

    Number.

    1924.

    1927.

    14th January

    …

    …

    21,588

    17th January

    …

    …

    13,542

    11th February

    …

    …

    20,846

    14th February

    …

    …

    13,847

    17th March

    …

    …

    19,663

    14th March

    …

    …

    12,894

    14th April

    …

    …

    19,572

    11th April

    …

    …

    12,280

    12th May

    …

    …

    18,898

    16th May

    …

    …

    11,516

    16th June

    …

    …

    18,161

    13th June

    …

    …

    11,005

    14th July

    …

    …

    17,747

    11th July

    …

    …

    11,222

    11th August

    …

    …

    18,142

    15th August

    …

    …

    10,989

    15th September

    …

    …

    17,855

    12th September

    …

    …

    10,660

    13th October

    …

    …

    19,805

    17th October

    …

    …

    11,992

    17th November

    …

    …

    19,802

    14th November

    …

    …

    12,103

    15th December

    …

    …

    18,849

    12th December

    …

    …

    11,978

    1925.

    1928.

    12th January

    …

    …

    19,340

    16th January

    …

    …

    12,521

    16th February

    …

    …

    20,213

    13th February

    …

    …

    11,628

    16th March

    …

    …

    19,981

    12th March

    …

    …

    10,911

    13th April

    …

    …

    18,856

    16th April

    …

    …

    10,491

    11th May

    …

    …

    19,217

    14th May

    …

    …

    11,079

    15th June

    …

    …

    17,535

    11th June

    …

    …

    10,545

    13th July

    …

    …

    17,182

    16th July

    …

    …

    11,089

    17th August

    …

    …

    16,394

    13th August

    …

    …

    10,838

    14th September

    …

    …

    16,112

    17th S ptember

    …

    …

    11,037

    12th October

    …

    …

    17,534

    15th October

    …

    …

    12,369

    16th November

    …

    …

    17,879

    12th November

    …

    …

    12,419

    14th December

    …

    …

    16,915

    17th December

    …

    …

    11,695

    1926.

    1929.

    11th January

    …

    …

    16,098

    14th January

    …

    …

    13,325

    15th February

    …

    …

    16,312

    11th February

    …

    …

    13,005

    15th March

    …

    …

    16,048

    11th March

    …

    …

    12,971

    12th April

    …

    …

    14,682

    15th April

    …

    …

    11,952

    17th May

    …

    …

    23,003

    13th May

    …

    …

    11,577

    14th June

    …

    …

    16,473

    17th June

    …

    …

    10,810

    12th July

    …

    …

    15,796

    15th July

    …

    …

    10,550

    16th August

    …

    …

    14,678

    13th September

    …

    …

    13,418

    11th October

    …

    …

    14,349

    15th November

    …

    …

    14,687

    13th December

    …

    …

    13,808

  STEEL TRADE (WAGES).
  Commander BELLAIRSasked the Minister of Labour whether she can make a comparison as to the rise in real wages for the steel trade in Great Britain and the United States between 1913 and the latest available date for two comparable districts?
  Miss BONDFIELD: I regret that the statistical material available is insufficient to provide a satisfactory basis for such a comparison.
  Commander BELLAIRS: Will the Minister obtain information of some kind to enable us to make some sort of comparison if I ask a question next Session?
  Miss BONDFIELD: I will do my best, but the tables really are not comparable.

  TRADE BOARDS ACT (MESSRS. BROUGH, LIVERPOOL).
  Mr. KELLYasked the Minister of Labour when last an inspector of the Ministry visited the works of Messrs. Brough, of Liverpool; if the wages list was then examined; and has action been decided on to secure for the workpeople the wages set out in the trade board scale?
  Miss BONDFIELD: This firm was last visited at their request by the Senior Inspector, Manchester, on 15th February last. The wages books were not then examined. As my hon. Friend is, I think, aware, there have been difficulties of demarcation which have made it impracticable hitherto to treat this firm as subject to trade board requirements. It may be, however, that the firm's work will come within the scope of the Keg and Drum Board recently established, and as soon as rates fixed by this board have come into operation the question of their application in the case of Messrs Brough will be dealt with.
  Mr. KELLY: In view of the low wages paid by these people, compared with their competitors, will the Minister have this case again looked into, in order that the people who are paid "short" may receive the money to which they are entitled?
  Miss BONDFIELD: Certainly, as soon as the provisional trade board has been set up.

  WAGES DISPUTE (CIDER FIRM).
  Mr. W. THORNEasked the Minister of Labour if she is aware that a dispute is in progress at the works of a well-known cider firm in the Eastern Counties on the question of wages and victimisation of employés; that representations have been made to her Department with a view of bringing the two sides together; if she can state the result of such representations; and whether the firm is now prepared to meet officials of the union concerned?
  Miss BONDFIELD: My Department has been in communication with the firm and the union concerned in this dispute, both before and since the stoppage of work which took place on 19th June. The firm state that they have all the labour they require, and that they regard the dispute as at an end. I regret that it has not so far been possible to arrange a meeting between the firm and officials of the Union.

  TRANSPORT.

    ROUNDABOUT AND ONE-WAY TRAFFIC (ACCIDENTS).
    Mr. DAYasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he can state the number of fatal and nonfatal street accidents that have taken place at the several places where the roundabout or one-way traffic systems have been introduced in the London area for the 12 months ended to the last convenient date; and whether he will give the corresponding figures for the 12 months prior to the inception of this system?
    The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. Clynes): A return has been prepared as respects those roundabout or one-way systems which have been in operation for 12 months. As it is very long, I will, with the hon. Member's permission, have it printed in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
    Mr. DAY: Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether he thinks that the system as introduced in London is working satisfactorily and whether it is intended to increase it?
    Mr. CLYNES: I have not been asked for a considered opinion, and this is not the occasion to give it. All the informa-

    Round About and One-Way Systems—Accidents.

    Street or Place.

    Date of commencement of system.

    Number of Accidents.

    From inception of system to 30th June 1929.

    Corresponding period immediately prior to inception

    Fatal.

    Non-fatal (persons injured).

    Fatal.

    Non-fatal (persons injured).

    Serious.

    Slight.

    Serious.

    Slight.

    Parliament Square

    4.1.26

    1

    9

    102

    3

    4

    44

    Queen's Gardens

    25.1.26

    1

    3

    44

    1

    2

    18

    Hyde Park Corner

    22.3.26

    2

    21

    198

    2

    14

    180

    Trafalgar Square

    26.4.26

    5

    14

    276

    8

    8

    174

    Knightsbridge and Bromp-ton Road.

    14.2.27

    1

    3

    29

    —

    4

    46

    Sloane Square

    7.3.27

    —

    —

    100

    —

    13

    137

    Grosvenor Gardens

    2.1.28

    —

    —

    30

    —

    1

    21

    Albert Gate

    6.2.28

    —

    1

    4

    —

    —

    3

    Bessborough Gardens

    26.11.28

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    2

    Piccadilly Circus

    26.7.26

    1

    12

    116

    4

    9

    122

    Haymarket

    26.7.26

    1

    8

    122

    —

    4

    47

    Piccadilly, St. James's Street, Bennet Street, etc.

    22.3.26

    —

    —

    11

    —

    —

    10

    Lower Regent Street

    15.11.26

    —

    2

    77

    2

    7

    53

    Orange Street

    27.5.29

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    Dean Street

    27.5.29

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    3

    Wardour Street

    27.5.29

    —

    3

    2

    —

    —

    3

    Deanery Street and Tilney Street.

    27.5.29

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    Marble Arch

    1.11.26

    2

    11

    132

    2

    7

    92

    Chapel Street, W.

    6.2.28

    —

    —

    11

    —

    —

    39

    Marylebone Lane

    26.11.28

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    Somerset Street, W.

    26.11.28

    —

    —

    1

    —

    —

    —

    Long Acre

    1.8.24

    —

    4

    30

    1

    2

    28

    Great St. Andrew Street

    1.8.24

    —

    —

    15

    —

    1

    23

    Aldwych

    12.10.25

    —

    3

    31

    —

    4

    27

    Maiden Lane

    27.5.29

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    The Mall and Church Street, Notting Hill.

    2.1.28

    —

    —

    10

    —

    6

    3

    Featherstone Street and Leonard Street, Finsbury.

    26.11.28

    —

    —

    2

    —

    —

    3

    Catherine Street and Vince Street, Shoreditch.

    26.11.28

    —

    —

    —

    1

    —

    4

    Mare Street, Hackney (be-ween Amhurst Road and Dalston Lane).

    4.8.24

    1

    10

    55

    1

    8

    47

    Bow Road, Poplar (by St. Mary's Church).

    6.2.28

    —

    —

    14

    —

    —

    18

    Goodmayes Lane and Green Lane, Ilford.

    27.5.29

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    High Street and Eleanor Cross Road, Waltham Cross.

    6.2.28

    —

    1

    8

    1

    —

    15

    Montpelier Yale, Blackheath

    6.2.28

    —

    —

    3

    —

    —

    1

    Lee Green

    9.4.28

    1

    —

    10

    —

    —

    8

    Swiss Cottage

    9.4.28

    —

    6

    31

    —

    6

    39

    The Burroughs and Watford Way, Hendon.

    27.5.29

    —

    —

    4

    —

    —

    —

    Hendon Circus

    27.5.29

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    1

    tion will be found, I think, in the statement.
    Following is the return:

    Street or Place.

    Date of commencement of system.

    Number of Accidents.

    From inception of system to 30th June 1929.

    Corresponding period immediately prior to inception

    Fatal.

    Non-fatal (persons injured).

    Fatal.

    Non-fatal (persons injured).

    Serious.

    Slight.

    Serious.

    Slight.

    Hammersmith—King Street Beadons Road and part of The Grove.

    27.7.26

    —

    7

    71

    —

    6

    49

    Kingston Road (Junction of Kingston By-pass Road).

    26.11.28

    —

    —

    3

    —

    —

    2

    The Triangle, East Sheen

    6.2.28

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    1

    Richmond Hill

    26.11.28

    —

    —

    1

    —

    —

    —

    Red Lion Street, Richmond

    26.11.28

    —

    1

    1

    —

    —

    1

    High Street, Thames Ditton (Junction of St. Leonards Road).

    27.5.29

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    —

    Elgin Avenue, Paddington (Junction of Great Western and Harrow Roads, etc.).

    26.11.28

    —

    —

    1

    —

    1

    8

    The Triangle, Palmers Green

    6.5.28

    —

    2

    —

    —

    —

    7

    Park Avenue and Barret Avenue, Wood Green.

    26.11.28

    —

    —

    —

    —

    1

    2

    16

    121

    1,545

    26

    108

    1,281

    MOTOR-CYCLE ACCIDENTS.
    Mr. REMERasked the Home Secretary whether his attention has been called to the large number of road accidents in which motor-cyclists have been involved; and whether he has drawn, or proposes to draw, the attention of the police throughout the country to this aspect of the traffic problem?
    Mr. CLYNES: I am aware of the large number of road accidents in which motor cyclists have been involved, but I do not think it is necessary to draw the attention of the police specially to the matter. What seems chiefly to be required is a higher standard of skill in driving and an increased sense of responsibility on the part of motor cyclists, and that is to be attained, I am sure, as much by education and propaganda by those in a position to influence motor cycling opinion as by any action on the part of the police.
    Mr. REMER: Has the right hon. Gentleman read the correspondence which took place before his predecessor and the Royal Automobile Club on this subject?
    Mr. CLYNES: I am aware of the opinion of my predecessor on this subject, also of the correspondence.
    Mr. SMITHERS: In view of the statement made by the Home Secretary, will he not now consider the advisability of enforcing some test before licences are issued?
    Mr. CLYNES: I would like notice of that question.

  CLERKS OF THE PEACE (APPOINTMENTS).
  Mr. LAWTHERasked the Home Secretary if he will, having regard to the extended powers now given to county councils, introduce legislation to give them the power to elect clerks of the peace and assistant clerks of the peace?
  The MINISTER of HEALTH (Mr. Arthur Greenwood): I have been asked to reply. I have under consideration the question of legislation for dealing with the present position in regard to the appointment of clerks of county councils and clerks of the peace.
  Mr. FOOT: Can a further answer be given, having regard to some appointments at present pending? The right hon. Gentleman is aware, no doubt, that grievances exist in this respect?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: I am considering that very question now with representatives of the Association affected.

  FACTORIES BILL.
  Mr. MANDERasked the Home Secretary whether he will consider including in the Factories Bill a clause giving to workers a right of appeal against unjust dismissal so as to avoid victimisation?
  Mr. CLYNES: The hon. Member raises a big question which appears to me to be rather one for another Department. In any case it goes far outside the scope of the Factory Acts and could not in my opinion be dealt with in the Factories Bill.
  Mr. MANDER: Will the right hon. Gentleman be prepared to deal with this subject in another Bill?
  Mr. CLYNES: I must ask for notice of that question.

  ARTIFICIAL SILK FACTORIES.
  Mr. KELLYasked the Home Secretary what reports have recently been made by his inspectors as to the health conditions in artificial silk factories?
  Mr. CLYNES: It appears from reports recently received that the cases of conjunctivitis which has been the main source of trouble in this industry have been diminishing and that, following on the conference which the chief inspector had last spring with the firms concerned, improved methods of ventilation are being tried which it is hoped will result in a further reduction. The general health conditions continue to be satisfactory but much yet remains to be done at some of the works in order to eliminate the eye trouble, and I have asked the chief inspector to hold a further conference with the firms at an early date, in order to review the position and consider what further steps should be taken.
  Mr. KELLY: When is the conference likely to be held; and will the unions concerned be invited to express their views?
  Mr. CLYNES: I will consider the second point of that question favourably; as to the first, there will be no undue delay.

  POLICE.

    TRAFFIC DUTY (HOURS).
    Lieut.-Colonel HENEAGEasked the Home Secretary what are the hours of employment of police constables of the Metropolitan police on traffic duty: and if he can give the number of cases of illness or overstrain which have resulted from these hours?
    Mr. CLYNES: The duty period is eight hours with a break of half-an-hour for refreshments. I am informed that there is no evidence of cases, of illness or overstrain resulting from the length of the duty period.
    Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY: Does that mean that an officer on point duty in a street where there is busy traffic is on duty for eight hours at a time?
    Mr. CLYNES: With a break of about half-an-hour.

    CHIEF CONSTABLES (APPOINTMENT).
    Mr. JAMES HUDSONasked the Home Secretary whether he is prepared to make applicable to the appointment of chief constables or assistant chief con stables in England the same provision as in the Police (Scotland) Regulations, which requires that no person without previous police experience of five years or more shall be appointed to these posts?
    Mr. CLYNES: In view of the importance of securing for these posts the best possible qualifications and experience, I am not at present satisfied that I should be justified in altering the Regulations in the sense suggested, but I am giving further consideration to the whole problem.
    Mr. HUDSONasked the Home Secretary how many appointments to the office of chief constable or of assistant chief constable have been approved by the Secretary of State during the last five years; and how many of these were of persons without previous and recognised experience in the police?
    Mr. CLYNES: In the five years ended 30th June last, 48 appointments to the

    1461
    post of chief constable of county and borough forced were approved by the Secretary of State. Of the persons appointed 38 had previous experience in English or 'Scottish forces, one in the Royal Irish Constabulary, six in Indian or Colonial police services, while three were appointed on special experience of other kinds. Appointments to the post of assistant chief constable are not necessarily subject to the Secretary of State's approval. On 30th June last eight of the ten assistant chief constables had had police experience before their appointments, and there was one vacancy.
    Mr. SMITHERS: Does the right hon. Gentleman consider that previous police experience is an essential qualification for one of these posts?
    Mr. CLYNES: Generally, yes, but there are exceptional cases.
    Mr. HAYCOCK: Is military experience a first-class qualification for a chief constable?
    Mr. CLYNES: I do not say that it is a first-class qualification, but it is a qualification.
    Mr. HAYCOCK: Why?

    DISCIPLINARY CASES.
    Mr. W. BENNETTasked the Home Secretary whether, seeing that it has been customary for the police in the daily police orders to publish notices of the suspension or punishment of police officers for disciplinary offences, he will state why the practice has been discontinued?
    Mr. MACLEANasked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that the police orders issued from New Scotland Yard to Metropolitan police stations have ceased to contain particulars of the suspensions and punishments of police offenders against discipline; whether this stoppage has his approval; and, if so, the reason for this new method?
    Mr. CLYNES: The practice of notifying in Police Orders certain particulars with regard to disciplinary action was established in the Metropolitan Police as a convenient method of conveying orders or information to all whom it might concern in the force.
    1462
    It had no other purpose. Recently the attention of the Commissioner was called to the fact that the particulars so given were being utilised for purposes of a wider publicity for which they were not suitable, since in many instances the notifications related to cases still sub judice and because the information given was usually confined to particulars essential for service purposes. The Commissioner accordingly decided for the time being to discontinue the practice. This does not mean, however, that there is any intention to withhold from the Press information which they should have upon matters of public interest, and if the present arrangements for the purpose do not satisfactorily meet the requirements of the case, I shall be glad to consider, with the Commissioner, how they can be improved. We may perhaps hope to have the co-operation of the Press in concerting arrangements which could be adhered to by all concerned.
    Mr. SMITHERS: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability, in connection with these services and disciplinary inquiries, of having the evidence taken on oath?
    Mr. CLYNES: The subject of inquiries is not referred to, either in the question or the answer, but I will consider the point raised.

    ASSISTANT CHIEF CONSTABLE, STAFFORDSHIRE.
    Mr. W. M. ADAMSONasked the Home Secretary whether he has now given consideration to the recommendation of the Staffordshire Standing Joint Committee to appoint Commander Legge as assistant chief constable for the county; and if he can now make a statement on the matter?
    Mr. CLYNES: Yea, Sir, the position is that under the Police Regulations the only matter on which my approval is required is as to the appointment of a person whose age is over 30 years, and having regard to the nature of the post in question, I have come to the conclusion that I should not be justified in withholding my approval.
    Mr. ADAMSON: Has the right hon. Gentleman taken into consideration applicants under the age who were recognised police officers with experience?
    Mr. HANNON: Is not this officer qualified in every respect for the appointment?
    Mr. SPEAKER: That point has already been dealt with.
    Mr. CLYNES: All I have to take into consideration is whether the decision to make the appointment was justified, and I have reached the conclusion that I ought not to interfere.

    PENSIONS.
    Mr. OLDFIELDasked the Home Secretary what is the total sum contributed by members of the Metropolitan police force towards pensions in 1927 and 1928, respectively; and what is the total expenditure upon such pensions in the same period?
    Mr. CLYNES: Taking the financial years 1927–28 and 1928–29 the amounts received towards the cost of pensions under the heads deductions from pay, fines, etc., were £231,213 and £241,020 respectively. The total expenditure on pensions for the same periods (including widows' pensions and children's allowances) were £1,699,765 and £1,775,672.

  VOTERS (BUSINESS QUALIFICATION).
  Mr. A. G. GOSSLINGasked the Home Secretary the number of persons registered as voters for business premises in parliamentary elections in England and Wales, respectivly?
  Mr. CLYNES: The particulars for a few constituencies are still outstanding, but I expect to have them very soon and will then give notice to my hon. Friend.

  FIRST OFFENDERS.
  Mr. LANGasked the Home Secretary if he is in agreement with the circular issued by the last Home Secretary urging magistrates not to impose short sentences upon first offenders ordered imprisonment?
  Mr. CLYNES: I have no knowledge of such a circular.
  Mr. LANG: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that a large number of cases have occurred in which the instruction to impose longer sentences has been re-
  1464
  garded as a supersession of the Probation of Offenders Act?
  Mr. CLYNES: If my hon. Friend has knowledge of such cases, I shall be glad to consider them.

  CONVICTED PERSONS (INSANITY).
  Mr. LANGasked the Home Secretary whether in view of the fact that for the three years 1926 to 1928, inclusive, 295 male and 43 female prisoners were certified as insane after their reception into prison as convicted persons, he will provide for the obligatory mental examination of all convicted persons before sentence?
  Mr. CLYNES: Wherever there is reason for suspecting mental abnormality, it is certainly right that the Court should have a medical report before proceeding to conviction and sentence, and it is the duty of Prison Medical Officers to make such reports on prisoners committed for trial or remanded by Courts of Summary Jurisdiction to prison for medical observation. Figures are given by the Medical Commissioner in the Annual Reports of the Prison Commissioners showing how large a number of cases are so dealt with.

  HOME OFFICE (POLICE PENSIONERS).
  Mr. LONGBOTTOMasked the Home Secretary if he can state the number of persons in the employ of his Department who are in receipt of pensions from local police authorities for past police service; and the duties they are now performing, together with the salaries paid and the ages of those in question?
  Mr. CLYNES: Yes, Sir, and, with my hon. Friend's permission, I will circulate the information he asks for in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
  Mr. LONGBOTTOM: Is there in the employment of the right hon. Gentleman's Department one gentleman of more than 70 years of age, who receives a salary of £1,500 a year, and who has had a pension of £800 a year from a local police authority for many years; and does the right hon. Gentleman agree with an appointment of that description?
  Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. Member ought to put that question on the Paper.
  Following is the information:
  So far as the Home Office records show, the Home Office have in their employment nine officers who are in receipt of pensions from local police authorities for past police services. The particulars required are as follow:

  Rank.

  Present salary (basic).

  Age.

  H.M. Inspectors of Constabulary.

  £1,100 per annum

  59

  H.M. Inspectors of Constabulary.

  £850 per annum

  69

  Metropolitan Agent*

  £2 10s. 0d. a week

  60

  Metropolitan Agent*

  £2 10s. 0d. a week

  58

  Metropolitan Agent*

  £2 10s. 0d. a week

  58

  Metropolitan Agent*

  £2 10s. 0d. a week

  60

  Metropolitan Agent*

  £2 10s. 0d. a week

  59

  Metropolitan Agent*

  £2 5s. 0d. a week

  52

  Metropolitan Agent*

  £2 2s. 6d. a week

  50

  *Assisting in the collection in London of contributions to be paid by parents for the maintenance of their children in Certified Schools.

  In the Prison Commission there are 6 officers as follows:—

  Rank.

  Present salary (basic).

  Age.

  Brixton Prison:

  Temporary officer:

  31s. 6d. + 21s. 1d.

  60

  Night Patrol.

  bonus

  (53s. 7d. weekly).

  Temporary officer

  4s. 6d. + 3s. 2d.

  51

  bonus

  (7s. 8d. per day).

  Feltham Borstal Institution:

  Temporary officer

  4s. 6d. + 3s. 2d.

  51

  bonus

  (7s. 8d. per day).

  Portland Borstal Institution:

  Temporary officer:

  31s. 6d. + 22s. 1d.

  55

  Night Patrol.

  bonus

  (53s. 7d. weekly).

  Wakefield Prison:

  Temporary officer:

  4s. 6d. + 3s. 2d.

  61

  Night Patrol.

  bonus

  (7s. 8d. per day).

  Wandsworth Prison:*

  Established Prison Officer.

  31s. 0d. + 21s. 9d.

  27

  bonus

  Rent allowance 16s.

  (68s. 9d. weekly).

  *R.I.C. pensioner.

  FIRE BRIGADE DISPLAYS.
  Sir WALTER de FRECEasked the Home Secretary whether any police supervision, and, if so, what, is exercised in the Metropolitan police area over fire brigade displays which entail the destruction by fire of combustible structures?
  Mr. CLYNES: No, Sir, the police have no such powers.

  ENGINEERING WORKSHOPS (EYE INJURIES).
  Mr. J. WILSONasked the Home Secretary whether he is aware of the in jury caused to the eyesight of employés in engineering workshops through the lodgment of foreign matter in the eye; and whether he will make arrangements for the appointment of an eye specialist in engineering towns, at which such employés could receive treatment on production of their medical card?
  Mr. CLYNES: I am aware of the liability to eye injuries in many engineering processes, and the first-aid arrangements which are required to be made at every factory provide for the first-aid treatment of these injuries. Arrangements, however, for the provision of any specialist treatment which may be necessary subsequently are outside the scope of the Factory Acts, and all I can offer is to bring the hon. Member's suggestion to the notice of my right hon. Friend the Minister of Health.

  COLONIES (LIQUOR IMPORTATION).
  Mr. AYLESasked the Home Secretary whether he will include in the terms of reference of the Royal Commission on the drink traffic the question of the control of liquor importation into the Colonies?
  Mr. CLYNES: No, Sir. This question would be quite outside the scope of the contemplated inquiry.
  Viscountess ASTOR: Will the right hon. Gentleman set up some committee of inquiry into this really scandalous blot on the Empire?
  Mr. CLYNES: I can only at the moment answer the question on the Paper.

  MR. ISRAEL ISENBERG, NOTTINGHAM (NATURALISATION).
  Mr. COCKSasked the Home Secretary whether Be has been able to come to any decision regarding the application for naturalisation of Mr. Israel Isenberg, of Nottingham?
  Mr. CLYNES: The only application for naturalisation which can be traced from Mr. Israel Isenberg was refused by my predecessor in May, 1928.
  Mr. COCKS: Will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider that opinion of his predecessor?
  Mr. CLYNES: I have had no application to reconsider it.

  FOREIGN VISITORS (REGULATIONS).
  Commander BELLAIRSasked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that foreigners are deterred from visiting this country through a belief that they will be subjected to much unpleasantness through the strictness with which aliens regulations are enforced; whether he has studied the letter forwarded to him from the sender of some 40 pictures and drawings for the recent Dutch exhibition; and whether he can make a reassuring statement on this matter?
  Mr. CLYNES: I am not aware that the facts are as suggested in the first part of the question, and the published statistics show that the number of aliens arriving and embarking as passengers has steadily increased during the last two years. If the letter referred to in the second part of the question is the one which I received this morning for the first time from, the hon. and gallant Member, after his question appeared on the Paper, I know of no reason for thinking that the writer would have experienced any difficulty in obtaining leave to land here. On the contrary, my predecessor intimated that he was ready to take special steps when asked to see that no difficulty occurred.

  STANDING JOINT COMMITTEES.
  Mr. LAWTHERasked the Home Secretary if he will consider the abolition of the present standing joint committees in administrative county areas and con-
  1468
  fining to the exercise of their functions members of the county council?
  Mr. CLYNES: The present system has worked very well in practice, and this is not a matter on which I have any intention of proposing legislation.
  Mr. T. WILLIAMS: Is my right hon. Friend aware that the present system has not worked very well in certain areas?
  Mr. CLYNES: My answer indicates the contrary.

  SHOP HOURS, GREAT YARMOUTH.
  Mr. R. A. TAYLORasked the Home Secretary whether any changes in the general closing hours for shops have been or are to be made in Great Yarmouth; and, if so, if all the provisions of the Shops Act are being carried out?
  Mr. CLYNES: I have not the information asked for on either point. As my hon. Friend knows, the Town Council and not the Home Office is the authority responsible for the administration of the Act at Great Yarmouth. If he has any complaint to make and will furnish me with the evidence on which it is based. I shall be ready to inquire into it.

  COMMITTEE OF CIVIL RESEARCH.
  Mr. MANDERasked the Prime Minister whether the Government have now made arrangements to appoint an economic general staff; and, if so, how will it be composed?
  The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. J. Ramsay MacDonald): I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I give yesterday in answer to a question by the hon. Member for the City of Chester (Sir C. Cayzer).

  NAVAL POLICY.
  Mr. HORE-BELISHAasked the Prime Minister whether he has any announcement to make about the 1928 programme of naval construction?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I would refer the hon. Member to the statement on this subject which I made yesterday.
  Mr. HORE-BELISHA: Has the Prime Minister now looked into the figures, and

  1469
  can he give any indication of the amount of unemployment that is likely to be caused by his decision; can he further say why the Royal dockyards are to bear the whole brunt of these reductions, and all the contracts placed with private firms are to remain and only dockyard ships are to be taken out of the programme?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I think the latter part of the hon. Gentleman's question is inaccurate. Private dockyards will also have to bear their share. So far as the figures are concerned, I have looked into them with the Committee specially charged to examine them, and the amount of unemployment which will result will, we hope, be practically negligible.
  Mr. HORE-BELISHA: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the only work which remains to the dockyards is one submarine and two sloops, whereas practically the whole of the work placed with the private firms will remain; and is it the policy of the Government to send all national work to the private yards?
  The PRIME MINISTER: No, it is not the policy of the Government to do that, as will be shown when the full scheme is disclosed. The saving of unemployment in the dockyards is going to be effected by a reorganisation of the work.
  Mr. MACLEAN: Is it not the case that many of the private yards have been specially equipped in order to meet the Government's requirements, and are they not entitled to a fair share of any Government work that is going?
  Viscountess ASTOR: May I ask the right hon. Gentleman just to remember that it is rather difficult for some of us—
  HON. MEMBERS: Order!

  PUBLIC MEETINGS (DISTURBANCE).
  Lieut.-Colonel Sir GODFREY DALRYMPLE-WHITEasked the Home Secretary if his attention has been drawn to the increasing denial of the right of free speech at election meetings in many areas, and notably at the present by-election at Preston; whether he will consider if the existing law is inadequate to prevent such disturbances; and, if not, whether he will consider the introduction
  1470
  of further legislation to secure a fan-hearing at such meetings?
  Mr. CLYNES: As was stated in reply to a similar question by the hon. Member for Penrith and Cockermouth (Mr. Dixey) on the 23rd instant, I am not aware of any need for strengthening the law in this particular respect.
  Sir G. DALRYMPLE-WHITE: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the reply referred to was a direct negative and entirely ignored the fact that this practice at the recent General Election reached an unprecedented scale; further, with regard to the fact that one of the candidates at the Preston by-election is one of the Law Officers of the Crown, will the right hon. Gentleman consult him after the election, as he has now had an opportunity of seeing this rowdyism in practice?
  Mr. HOLFORD KNIGHT: Has my right hon. Friend been advised that punishment for these deplorable incidents is already fully provided for by the Public Meetings Act, 1908; and are Ministers, in face of similar difficulties, receiving any advice from the Law Officers?
  Mr. CLYNES: Exactly. That is why I said that no strengthening of the law was necessary.
  Mr. ERNEST BROWN: How is it possible to deal with cases of this kind when you get 600 or 700 people in a packed schoolroom, where injury must come to innocent people if there is any interference by the police?
  Mr. CLYNES: That is precisely why I hold the view that we must look to other means for securing the peaceful conduct of our meetings than merely to a strengthening of the law.
  Mr. DIXEY: In view of the importance that people attach to this by-election, particularly having regard to the circumstances in this case, will the Government try to secure for the Conservative and other candidates a fair chance?

  JURY SERVICE (TRAVELLING EXPENSES).
  Mr. FOOTasked the Home Secretary if it is his intention to introduce legislation providing for the payment of

  1471
  travelling expenses to jurymen and jury-women summoned to serve at assizes and quarter sessions?
  Mr. CLYNES: Though I have certain sympathy with the proposal, I regret that I do not feel able to propose legislation for putting an additional charge of this character upon public funds at the present time.

  EDUCATION.

    SCHOOL LEAVING AGE.
    Lieut.-Colonel HENEAGEasked the President of the Board of Education, with reference to the proposed raising of the school age to 15, whether any associations representing parents' interests have been consulted; and if he will name them?
    The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of EDUCATION (Sir Charles Trevelyan): I have not consulted any such associations. But a large majority of the parents voted in favour of the change at the General Election.
    Lieut.-Colonel HENEAGE: May we take it for a fact that the right hon. Gentleman intends to keep children in school up to the age of 15 without the parents' consent?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I have already pointed out that the parents' consent has been given.
    Viscountess ASTOR: Is it not a fact that this scheme has been tried in Plymouth for three years and has been found a great success?
    Mr. ANNESLEY SOMERVILLEasked the President of the Board of Education how many trained teachers leave the training colleges and the universities annually?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: May I refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave him to his own question on Monday last?
    Mr. SOMERVILLE: I apologise to the right hon. Gentleman for the repetition.
    Mr. BEAUMONTasked the President of the Board of Education whether, in view of the proposed raising of the school age, the Hadow Report still represents the educational policy of His Majesty's Government?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: The raising of the school age was an integral part of the Hadow Report. The late Government rejected it. The present Government has adopted it.
    Mr. BEAUMONT: Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us—the Hadow Report did not—what arrangements he proposes to make for the provision of central schools in areas entirely served by voluntary schools?
    Mr. SPEAKER: That question does not arise.
    Captain TODDasked the President of the Board of Education if, in his proposals for the raising of the school-leaving age to 15, he is making any provision for financial assistance to non-provided schools to assist in the provision of the new school places that will be required?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I cannot at present add anything to the answer which I gave to the hon. Member for Devonport (Mr. Hore-Belisha) on the 4th July, of which I am sending the hon. and gallant Member a copy.
    Mr. OLDFIELD: As well as making arrangements for meeting the representative of local authorities and teachers upon the matter of the school leaving age, is the right hon. Gentleman also making arrangements to receive those persons who are responsible for the building and the owning of non-provided schools?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I have not been approached about the matter. I shall meet everyone who is closely concerned with the problem.
    Mr. OLDFIELD: In view of the fact that the right hon. Gentleman is meeting certain local authorities on Tuesday, I want to know whether he is meeting the representatives of the non-provided schools as well?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I cannot meet everybody at once.
    Mr. LAMBERT: May we take it that no further assistance will be given to non-provided schools unless a further measure of public control is enforced?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I have already answered that question.
    Lord EUSTACE PERCY: Are we to understand that the right hon. Gentleman will not invite the voluntary bodies to meet him unless he receives a request from them first?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I am quite certain that if, as collective bodies, they want to see me, they will come and ask. The local authorities have a definite duty in connection with the matter, and, therefore, must necessarily see me.
    Mr. SMITHERSasked the President of the Board of Education what increase there would be in the number of children attending elementary schools by raising the school age to 15; what amount of extra school buildings would be necessary; hew many more teachers would be required; and what would be the total cost to the State and to the local education authorities?
    Mr. A. SOMERVILLEasked the President of the Board of Education what he estimates will be the additional annual cost of raising the school leaving age to 15: how many additional school places will be required when the age is raised in 1931; in how many schools will these places have to be provided; and what he estimates will be the cost of providing such additional accommodation?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: The increase in the number of children who will be on the registers of public elementary schools a full year after raising the school age is estimated to be 401,000. For reasons which I have previously given, I am unable to give any reliable estimate at the present time of the cost of raising the school leaving age, the number of additional teachers, or the additional school places which would be required.
    Mr. SMITHERS: Are we to understand that the Government are embarking on this great scheme without any adequate idea, at all of what it will cost, or how much extra accommodation will be required?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: At present I cannot possibly have any exact estimate, because I have not yet fully consulted the local authorities. The situation varies exceedingly all over the country; it is costly in one case, and not costly in another, and it is impossible at present to give any definite estimates.
    Mr. SMITHERS: Is the Minister aware that if any other business was run on those lines, it would be bankrupt?
    HON. MEMBERS: This is not a business.
    Sir ERNEST SHEPPERSONasked the President of the Board of Education whether, in view of the fact that the compulsory raising of the school age from 14 to 15 must seriously affect the whole agricultural industry, and particularly the interests of the agricultural worker himself, he will take steps to exclude rural areas from coming within the scope of the proposed Bill to raise the school-leaving age?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: No, Sir, I do not intend to propose the exclusion of rural areas.
    Sir E. SHEPPERSON: If the right hon. Gentleman is unable to exclude attendance between the ages of 14 and 15 in rural areas, will he consider making the attendance in agricultural areas between 14 and 15 voluntary and not compulsory?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I do not want to put any class of children at a disadvantage.
    Mr. ROSBOTHAM: May I ask the Minister if he has found from experience that agricultural workers are as keenly interested in education as any other workers?
    Mr. SPEAKER: I do not think that that question arises.

    REORGANISATION SCHEMES.
    Mr. GRAHAM WHITEasked the President of the Board of Education whether he has any statistics showing to what extent the reorganisation of primary education along the lines envisaged by the Hadow Report has already taken place?
    Mr. A. SOMERVILLEasked the President of the Board of Education in how many of the 317 educational areas in England and Wales schemes for the reorganisation of teaching for all children over 11 have been carried through; in how many other areas such schemes have been prepared or approved; and how long does he estimate it will be before such schemes will have been in operation all over England and Wales?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I am sending the hon. Members a copy of the reply which I gave yesterday to a similar question addressed to me by the Noble Lady the Member for the Sutton Division of Plymouth (Viscountess Astor).

    PLAYING FIELDS.
    Mr. GRAHAM WHITEasked the President of the Board of Education what is the estimated proportion of children in primary schools who have access to satisfactory playing-fields; and what steps are being taken by the Board to increase this proportion?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I am unable to give the estimate asked for. In recent years, partly as a result of the energetic work of the National Playing Fields Association, authorities have increasingly recognised the need for playing fields for elementary school children. In the last four years the Board have approved about 200 purchases of land for this purpose; in addition numerous arrangements have been made for the fuller use of public parks and other available open spaces. I am considering what steps I can most effectively take to increase the existing provision.
    Mr. FOOTasked the President of the Board of Education if, having regard to the limitation of the facilities for children's recreation, steps can be taken to make school playing-fields and playgrounds available for children during the summer evenings and during the summer holidays?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I am sending the hon. Member a copy of the reply which I gave to a similar question addressed to me by the hon. Member for North Portsmouth (Sir B. Falle) a week ago.

    ATTENDANCE.
    Mrs. HAMILTONasked the President of the Board of Education what percentage of boys and girls between the ages of 14 and 16 years of age are attending schools, separating grant-earning and other schools; and what number of boys and girls are being educated together, under 14 and over 14 years, respectively?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: The number of pupils over 14 and under 16 attending grant-earning schools in 1927–28 was 320,949, or approximately 22.6 per cent.
    1476
    of the total population between those ages. I have no information with regard to the number of such pupils attending other schools. As regards the second part of the question, there were in mixed or infants' departments of public elementary schools, on March 31st, 1928, 3,673,041 children under 14, and 80,224 over 14.

    NURSERY SCHOOLS.
    Lady CYNTHIA MOSLEYasked the President of the Board of Education whether he is in a position to state plans for the more general extension of nursery schools; and whether he proposes to ask for powers to require local authorities to establish nursery schools in their areas?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I am considering the beet way of securing an extension of nursery schools, but I cannot make any definite statement before the House rises to-morrow.
    Lady CYNTHIA MOSLEY: In view of the fact that the very poor districts are the districts that most urgently need nursery schools, will the right hon. Gentleman consider giving an increased grant in those districts?
    Viscountess ASTOR: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider receiving soon a deputation from those interested in nursery schools?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I am considering all the aspects of the question, but I shall no doubt possibly see someone.
    Viscountess ASTOR: Will the right hon. Gentleman receive a deputation?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: It depends on the deputation. I am very ready to meet any Members of this House, or anybody who speaks for any large body of public opinion.
    Viscountess ASTOR: Would the Minister receive the woman most responsible for nursery schools—Miss McMillan.
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: Of course, I would.

    STATISTICS (SOUTH SHIELDS).
    Mr. EDEasked the President of the Board of Education how many children there are between the ages of 11 and 12 years in the elementary schools of South Shields; the number of ex-elementary

    1477
    school children who enter secondary schools in the borough each year; and how the proportion between these two figures compares with the proportion for the county as a whole?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: On 31st March, 1927, there were 2,089 children between 11 and 12 years of age on the registers of elementary schools in South Shields. During 1927–28, 176 children from these schools were admitted to secondary schools on the grant list, the percentage being 8.4 as compared with a percentage of 11.1 for England and Wales.
    Mr. EDEasked the President of the Board of Education how many secondary school places there are in rate-aided schools in the county borough of South Shields; what proportion they are to the population of the borough; and how many free places there are in the rate-aided secondary schools of the borough?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: On 1st October, 1928, the number of pupils in rate-aided secondary schools in South Shields was 781, being 6.4 per thousand of the population in July, 1928, as estimated by the Registrar-General. The number of free place pupils was 248.

    SIZE OF CLASSES (DERBYSHIRE).
    Mr. LEESasked the President of the Board of Education what is the average number of children per class for elementary schools in the county of Derbyshire?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: The average number of children per class in elementary schools under the Derbyshire Local Education Authority is 35.

    PRIVATE SCHOOLS.
    Dr. HASTINGSasked the President of the Board of Education whether, in view of the poor quality of the education provided in certain private schools, he will consider the introduction of legislation for the compulsory inspection of all schools?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I am aware of the disadvantage to many children attending private schools of the poor quality of the education given in them; but I am not yet clear what alteration in the law would be necessary to enforce a reasonable standard of efficiency.

    CHURCH SCHOOL, ALFRETON.
    Mr. LEESasked the President of the Board of Education if he is aware of the insanitary condition of the Church elementary school at Alfreton, Derbyshire; and whether any steps are being taken to deal with this matter?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I am aware that this school was included in the Black List, and I am inquiring what action is proposed with regard to it.
    Mr. LEES: In view of the wretched condition of this school, would it not be as well for the President to send an inspector there at once?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: I am inquiring into what action should be taken.

    ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, BELPER.
    Mr. LEESasked the President of the Board of Education if he is aware of the unhealthy condition of the elementary school at Belper, Derbyshire; and whether any steps are being taken to deal with this matter?
    Sir C. TREVELYAN: If my hon. Friend will let me know which of the five schools in Belper he has in mind, I will send him an answer to his question.

  NATIONAL HEALTH INSURANCE.
  Mr. DAYasked the Minister of Health whether he can give the reasons for the removal of the 46 insurance practitioners who have been removed from the medical list since 1913?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: The reason in each case was that the Minister was satisfied, after the prescribed inquiry, that the continued inclusion of the practitioner in the medical list would be prejudicial to the efficiency of the medical service of the insured.
  Mr. DAY: Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether in the majority of these cases it was through neglect on the part of these practitioners?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: Their removal was due, not to one, but to many reasons. The general reason for exclusion from the panel is that they are acting prejudicially to the interests of the patients.

  HOUSING.

    RENT RESTRICTIONS ACTS.
    Sir BASIL PETOasked the Minister of Health whether he can now give any indication of the Government's intention with regard to the continuing or the amendment of the Rent and Mortgage Interest Restriction Act?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: I would refer the hon. Member to the statement which my right hon. Friend, the Prime Minister, made on this subject yesterday in reply to a question by the hon. Member for Sheffield, Park (Mr. Lathan).
    Sir B. PETO: Will the Minister consider setting up a Departmental Committee before whom evidence can be given both by tenants and owners of small house property coming under the Rent Restrictions Acts, so that when the Government introduce legislation they will have all the facts before them?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: I should say that to set up such a Committee would be a work of supererogation. I think we are quite familiar with the hardships.
    Sir KINGSLEY WOOD: Is that not all the more reason why some legislation should be proceeded with this year?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: The right hon. Gentleman had an opportunity to see about legislation at any time during the last few years.
    Mr. ARNOTTasked the Minister of Health if, in renewing the Rent Restrictions Act, he will consider the insertion of provisions making it illegal for owners of controlled houses to raise the rents of their tenants to meet any increased charges due to the reduction of excessive compounding allowances under the Rating and Valuation Act of 1925?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: I may perhaps refer my hon. Friend to the statement made by the Prime Minister yesterday that it-is proposed immediately to provide for the continuance of the Rent Restrictions Acts by means of the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill, and if this is done it will not be practicable to introduce amendments at that stage. I am not sure what my hon. Friend's precise proposal is, but I will have his suggestion in mind for future consideration.
    Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY: When the right hon. Gentleman is considering the housing policy as a whole, will he pay particular attention to this point in view of the fact that he spoke and voted against this very allowance to landlords during the last Parliament?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: Certainly I will consider it.

    COUNCIL HOUSES (SUB-LETTING).
    Sir ALBERT BENNETTasked the Minister of Health if he will state the policy of his Department on the subject of the sub-letting of council houses; and whether he can give the number and the names of the local authorities which have prohibited sub-letting?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: The general management of houses provided by local authorities is by Statute entirely a matter for the local authorities, and the question of sub-letting is a matter for their discretion. The Housing (Financial Provisions) Act, 1924, requires it to be a term of the letting of any house on which subsidy is paid under that Act that the tenant should not sub-let except with the consent of the local authority. Information is not available as regards the last part of the question.

    LOCAL AUTHORITIES (POWERS OF ACQUISITION).
    Lady CYNTHIA MOSLEYasked the Minister of Health whether he has considered the advisability of providing the local authorities with powers and facilities for the purchase of existing housing accommodation in order to assist them in the better allocation of such accommodation and meet the requirement's of working-class families unable to pay the rent of new council houses and at present living in overcrowded conditions?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: Local authorities already have powers under Section 57 of the Housing Act, 1925, to provide housing accommodation for the working classes by acquiring houses suitable for the purpose.
    Lady CYNTHIA MOSLEY: If they have that authority, will the right hon. Gentleman use his influence to see that they use it?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: One must have regard to the circumstances of a particular town. I believe that in the case of Birmingham that authority has already been given.
    Mr. OLDFIELD: Will the right hon. Gentleman point out to the Westminster City Council that there are plenty of empty houses around Belgrave Square which might very well be divided up and made available.

    SOUTH-EAST LONDON.
    Dr. MORGANasked the Minister of Health whether his attention has been drawn to the numerous cases of over crowding in the South-East of London; whether he is aware that in areas where the Housing Acts are largely inoperative there have been many unnecessary prosecutions of poor persons unable to find alternative accommodation; that some have been imprisoned for this offence; that many of those prosecuted have been declined as tenants by local authorities; and whether he is proposing to take any legislative steps dealing with this question.
    Mr. GREENWOOD: I am aware of the housing conditions in the South-East of London. My hon. Friend has brought some particulars to my notice, but I have no information as regards the second, third and fourth parts of the question. I have already, as he is aware, introduced legislation to facilitate the provision of additional housing accommodation by local authorities, and it is my intention to introduce further legislation dealing with the slum problem.
    Dr. MORGAN: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of issuing the circular to the local authorities specially in London who have not done their duty in regard to providing housing accommodation?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: It is not always possible for me to find out the particulars of such cases.

    BRICKS.
    Mr. AYLESasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that in the Bridgwater and Bristol brickyards the price of bricks has gone up by 11s. per thousand; and whether he will take steps to prevent profiteering as the result of the acceleration of housing schemes?
    Mr. WALTER BAKERasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware
    1482
    that at the Bridgwater and Bristol brickyards the price of bricks has gone up by 11s. per thousand; and whether he will take steps to prevent profiteering as the result of the acceleration of housing schemes?
    Mr. ALPASSasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that in the Bridgwater and Bristol brickyards the price of bricks has gone up by 11s. per thousand; and whether he will take steps to prevent profiteering as the result of the acceleration of housing schemes?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: I understand that there has recently been some increase in brick prices in these localities, though not to the extent suggested. I have asked the Inter-departmental Committee on the Prices of Building Materials to investigate the matter.
    Mr. DAY: Will the right hon. Gentleman say what is the increase which he understands has taken place?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: I cannot say without notice. If the hon. Member will put a question down on the Order Paper, I will gladly answer it.
    Mr. AYLESasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that in Bristol and in the West of England promoters of housing schemes cannot build houses to any extent, however anxious they may be, owing to shortage of bricks: that public housing schemes are only allowed to have a limited supply of bricks after private builders have had what they require; and whether he will take steps to see that the utmost facilities are provided for municipalities to obtain materials in order that they may be able to proceed as quickly as possible with the schemes in hand?
    Mr. ALPASSasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that in Bristol and in the West of England promoters of housing schemes cannot build houses, however anxious they may be, owing to a shortage of bricks; that public housing schemes are only allowed to have a limited supply of bricks after private builders have had what they require; and whether he will take steps to see that the utmost facilities are provided for municipalities in order that they may be able to proceed as quickly as possible with the schemes in hand?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: I understand that there has been some shortage in the supply of bricks, owing to the exceptionally large orders which have been placed recently so that houses might be completed by 30th September next. I am informed, however that it is not a fact that private builders are given preferenuce over housing schemes. I anticipate that the position will improve as a result of the decision to continue the present rate of subsidy under the Act of 1924, and I am in fact informed that already the position has become easier.

    RECONSTRUCTION SCHEME, PLYMOUTH.
    Viscountess ASTORasked the Minister of Health whether, seeing that an inspector of his Department visited Plymouth last autumn to look into and report upon matters connected with a reconstruction scheme for Castle Street and New Street, Plymouth, that the inspector submitted a Report on this scheme to the Ministry of Health many months ago, that later the scheme was approved by the Ministry subject to certain modifications and to the exclusion of certain properties, and that the details of these modifications and exceptions have never yet been laid before the Plymouth City Council, he can now state what modifications are required by his Department and what properties it is proposed should be excluded from the scheme; and whether he will give the reasons for such exclusion?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: It has been necessary to defer further consideration of the scheme having regard to the decision of the Court of Appeal in the case of R. v. Minister of Health, ex parte Davis.
    Viscountess ASTOR: Can the Minister of Health give me any idea how soon we can have an answer?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: The point is that it comes under the Derby decision, and we are now holding up claims until that decision can be rectified by legislation. It will come under my consideration in the immediate future.

  PUBLIC HEALTH.

    TRADE REFUSE.
    Sir GEORGE HAMILTONasked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the divergence of opinion as to the
    1484
    correct definition of trade refuse, he will consider the question of amending Section 42 of the Public Health Act, 1875, and Section 48 of the Public Health Acts (Amendment) Act, 1907, to permit a local authority to treat refuse from shops under the same heading as house refuse and to collect it without charge, thus altering the present situation whereby the refuse from one shop is house refuse and from another shop trade refuse?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: This matter has already been noted for consideration when an opportunity occurs to amend the Public Health Acts.
    Sir G. HAMILTON: Will the right hon. Gentleman receive a small deputation of the local traders of Ilford on this subject?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: I cannot promise off-hand to receive deputations from every local traders' association, but, if representations were made to me by a national body, I would certainly be glad to see them.

    VACCINATION (GOVERNMENT LYMPH).
    Mr. BROADasked the Minister of Health when rabbits first began to be used in the production of Government lymph supplies; whether any cases of post-vaccinal encephalitis were reported in this country prior to such introduction of rabbits; and whether his medical advisers have considered the desirability of dispensing with the use of rabbits for the purpose in question?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: Rabbits have been systematically used for this purpose since 1902. No case of post-vaccinal encephalitis was reported in this country until December, 1922. As regards the last part of the question, the desirability of dispensing with the use of rabbits ha6 been considered, but it was not deemed necessary to recommend any change in the present practice.
    Mr. FREEMAN: In view of the deaths that have followed vaccination, will the Minister institute a full inquiry into the subject, with the object both of avoiding those deaths and avoiding unnecessary cruelty to animals?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: But there is no indication that these deaths necessarily arise from the use of rabbit lymph, and

    1485
    the question of deaths from encephalitis is under continuous and very serious consideration.
    Mr. CHAMBERLAIN: Is it not the fact that a committee has investigated this very question under the chairmanship of Sir Humphrey Rolleston?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: Yes, that is so, and made recommendations for further research, which is now being carried on.
    Mr. BROADasked the Minister of Health whether he is prepared to guarantee that any child or person vaccinated with Government lymph will not be seriously injured by the operation; and, if it is not possible, whether he will consider the desirability of introducing legislation to secure that compensation shall be given in such cases to the parents or dependants, as the case may be?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: It is impossible to give an absolute guarantee that no person vaccinated with Government, or any other, lymph will suffer injury, but I may point out that the lymph produced by the Government Lymph Establishment complies in all respects with the standards laid down in the regulations made under the Therapeutic Substances Act, As regards the second part of the question, as at present advised, I could not undertake to introduce legislation on this subject.

    WATER SUPPLIES.
    Mr. W. BENNETTasked the Minister of Health whether he will consider the advisability of creating a national water board to unify supplies, with comprehensive powers of land drainage and water conservation, so as to ensure for every town and village an adequate water supply?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: I doubt whether the object aimed at by my hon. Friend would be best achieved by the creation of a national board. The step which requires next to be undertaken is a series of comprehensive local investigations by advisory regional committees on the lines advocated by my Department, and then the results of these investigations can be co-ordinated in a national policy. As to land drainage, a report on this matter was recently made by a Royal Commission and is under consideration by the Government.

    RIVER LEA (POLLUTION).
    Major CHURCHasked the Minister of Health whether he is aware that the River Lea from Tottenham lock downwards through the districts of Hackney and Homerton is, and has for many years been, in a foul condition; and whether, having regard to the fact that this stretch of the river is a menace to the health of residents near its banks, he will take steps to ensure that the river is restored to a reasonable standard of purity?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: Several large schemes of sewerage and sewage disposal have been carried out at heavy cost in recent years by local authorities with a view to improving the condition of the river. I am arranging for a visit of inspection in the near future.
    Captain AUSTIN HUDSON: Is the Minister of Health aware that most of those schemes have already been finished and that the condition of the river is very nearly as bad as it was five years ago? Will the right hon. Gentleman inquire into this question?
    Mr. GREENWOOD: I have already undertaken early inspection.

  CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS ACT.
  Mr. E. BROWNasked the Minister of Health the average monthly rate of increase in the number of widows drawing pensions in England and Wales, and the total number in receipt of pensions on 30th June, 1929?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: As regards the first part of the question, the average monthly rate of increase during the past year in the number of widows drawing widows' pensions in England and Wales was, in the case of widows whose husbands died on or after 4th January, 1926, 4,432. In the case of widows whose husbands died before 4th January, 1926, there was an average monthly decrease of 1,073, so that the net average monthly increase of widows drawing pensions was 3,359. As regards the second part of the question, the total number of widows in England and Wales in receipt of widows' pensions on 30th June, 1929, was 232,248, of whom 64,980 were widows of men who. died before 4th January, 1926.
  Mr. BROWNasked the Minister of Health how many widows have ceased to draw pensions in England and Wales on account of their youngest children having reached the age limit under the Act; and the estimated cost of re-including them?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: As regards the first part of the question, the number of widows in England and Wales who have ceased to draw pensions on account of their youngest children having reached the age limit under the Act is 30,936; the information asked for in the second part is not available.
  Mr. BROWN: In view of the promises made by the Government during the Election, is the right hon. Gentleman taking steps to estimate the cost of re-including the pre-Act widows within the Act?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: A large number of suggestions are in my office and are receiving my consideration.
  Mr. BROWN: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that replies I have received in the last 10 days show that the ignorance of his Department on this question is colossal?
  Mr. T. WILLIAMS: Notwithstanding the cost, is it not a fact that before the end of this year all the anomalies will be removed?
  Mr. GILLasked the Minister of Health whether consideration is being given to the position of those who, on reaching the age of 65, are automatically deprived of unemployment insurance benefits, but who, owing to a slight break in their health insurance contributions, are unable to receive the old age pension until several months following their reaching the age of 65 have elapsed, resulting in their having no income whatever during the intervening period?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: I cannot at present add anything to the announcement made in the King's Speech that the Government are engaged on a general survey of the various National Insurance and Pension schemes.
  Mr. GILL: Will the right hon. Gentleman give special consideration to cases of hardship of the kind indicated in the
  1488
  question, when the amendment of the present Act is considered?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: Most certainly this is one of the class of cases which will be considered.
  Mr. GRAHAM WHITE: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that people have been disallowed benefit when they reach the age of 65 and yet cannot obtain pensions from his Department because the latter is not satisfied that they have reached the age of 65, and will he take steps to see that a consistent policy is pursued?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: I have already replied to a similar question saying that that is also one of the questions now under consideration.
  Mr. MACLEANasked the Minister of Health (1) whether he can state if any steps are being taken to remove the hardships imposed upon widows whose pensions are stopped when their youngest child reaches the age of 14½ years, even when the child is continuing at school;
  (2) whether he has under consideration the anomalies that arise under the Widows', Orphans', and Old Age Pensions Act, 1925; and whether he will remove the conditions which prevent wives and widows between 65 and 70 years of age receiving pensions?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: I can give no information in anticipation of the introduction of the amending Bill of which I have given notice.

  POOR LAW RELIEF, BETHNAL GREEN.
  Major NATHANasked the Minister of Health whether he will state for each quarter since January 1924, the number of persons in receipt of outdoor relief in Bethnal Green, distinguishing those persons who are normally in employment and the ordinary outdoor poor?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: As the reply contains a number of figures in tabular form, I will, with the hon. Member's permission, circulate it in the OFFICIAL REPORT.
  Following is the reply:

  STATEMENT showing for one month in each quarter since the beginning of 1924, the average number of persons in receipt of outdoor relief in the Parish of Bethnal Green distinguishing (1) persons ordinarily engaged in some regular occupation, and (2) the ordinary outdoor poor.

  Month.

  Average number of persons in receipt of outdoor relief (excluding persons in receipt of domiciliary medical relief only).

  Persons ordinarily engaged in some regular occupation and their dependants.

  All other persons in receipt of out-relief (including dependants).

  Total.

  March, 1924

  …

  …

  …

  4,551

  849

  5,400

  June, 1924

  …

  …

  …

  4,588

  832

  5,420

  September, 1924

  …

  …

  …

  3,919

  918

  4,837

  December, 1924

  …

  …

  …

  3,804

  1,024

  4,828

  March, 1925

  …

  …

  …

  4,014

  1,231

  5,245

  June, 1925

  …

  …

  …

  4,219

  1,305

  5,524

  September, 1925

  …

  …

  …

  5,458

  1,559

  7,017

  December, 1925

  …

  …

  …

  5,842

  1,815

  7,657

  March, 1926

  …

  …

  …

  6,762

  2,030

  8,792

  June, 1926

  …

  …

  …

  8,123

  2,423

  10,546

  September, 1926

  …

  …

  …

  8,271

  2,461

  10,732

  December, 1926

  …

  …

  …

  9,201

  2,439

  11,640

  March, 1927

  …

  …

  …

  10,033

  2,717

  12,750

  June, 1927

  …

  …

  …

  9,065

  2,735

  11,800

  September, 1927

  …

  …

  …

  8,116

  2,999

  11,115

  December, 1927

  …

  …

  …

  8,079

  3,094

  11,173

  March, 1928

  …

  …

  …

  8,113

  3,219

  11,332

  June, 1928

  …

  …

  …

  6,867

  3,188

  10,055

  September, 1928

  …

  …

  …

  5,940

  2,891

  8,831

  December, 1928

  …

  …

  …

  5,047

  2,602

  7,649

  March, 1929

  …

  …

  …

  5,226

  2,598

  7,824

  June, 1929

  …

  …

  …

  4,362

  2,581

  6,943

  AGRICULTURAL RATES ACT.
  Mr. J. W. BOWENasked the Minister of Health what are the estimated annual amounts by which occupiers of agricultural land and buildings in each county in England and Wales will benefit through the provisions relating to relief from rates which came into operation on 1st April in accordance with the terms of the Local Government Act, 1929?
  Mr. GREENWOOD: My hon. Friend presumably intended to refer to the Agricultural Rates Act, 1929, which antedates by six months the exemption from rates of agricultural land and agricultural buildings for which provision was made in the Local Government Act, 1929. It is estimated that the total relief to the occupiers of agricultural hereditaments under the provisions of the Agricultural Rates Act, 1929, will amount to
  1490
  £2,100,000 in the half-year beginning on the 1st April last. Particulars for each county are not available.
  Mr. HAYCOCK: May I ask how much of that sum will eventually go to the landlords?

  PERSIA.
  Mr. ANGELL(by Private Notice) asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he can make any statement to the House concerning the situation in Southern Persia?
  The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. Dalton): His Majesty's Government have received reports concerning tribal disturbances in Southern Persia. They have also been informed of certain rumours current in Persia to the effect that these risings are being instigated by British agents; and

  1491
  in this connection I am glad to have an opportunity of stating that these rumours are devoid of any foundation whatsoever, and that the policy of His Majesty's Government remains one of strict non-intervention in Persian internal affairs. The Secretary of State is confident that the Persian Government, who have had ample evidence during the past few years of the friendly attitude of Great Britain, realise that in their present difficulties with their disaffected tribes they may count on the sympathies of His Majesty's Government, whose one desire is to see Persia prosperous and peaceful under a strong and independent Government.

  ROYAL NAVY (HIS MAJESTY'S SHIP "VINDICTIVE").
  Commander SOUTHBY(by Private Notice) asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he has any further information regarding the explosion reported by the Admiralty to have taken place at Chatham on board His Majesty's Ship "Vindictive"?

  LIQUOR LAWS (ROYAL COMMISSION).
  Mr. TOOLE(by Private Notice) asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he is yet in a position to make any statement as to the composition and terms of reference of the proposed Royal Commission on Licensing?
  Mr. CLYNES: I regret that I cannot yet make any complete statement of the personnel of the Commission, but I am pleased to be able to inform the House that Lord Amulree, who is perhaps better known as Sir William Mackenzie, has consented to act as chairman. The terms of reference will be:
  "To inquire into the working of the laws relating to the supply and sale of intoxicating liquors, and into the social and economic aspects of the question, and to examine and report upon proposals that may be made for amending the law in England and Wales in the public interest."
  Mr. TOOLE: May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is the intention of the Commission to visit other countries in their investigations, and can he give any idea how long they will be occupied
  1492
  with their investigations; and is it the right hon. Gentleman's intention to introduce legislation founded on the findings of the Commission?
  Mr. CLYNES: I can only say that the Commission will make due inquiries and will have a very wide and complete control of its own procedure.
  Viscountess ASTOR: Will the Commission inquire into the question of drink sold in clubs?
  Mr. CLYNES: Certainly.
  Mr. LEIF JONES: Will the Commission report on the different aspects of the question from time to time, or will it wait until the end of its labours before any legislation is possible?
  Mr. CLYNES: That depends on circumstances and the speed with which the inquiry is conducted.
  Mr. FOOT: Is it intended that the Commission will commence its operations before the reassembly of Parliament?
  Mr. CLYNES: Yes, it is our desire to complete the personnel of the Commission as speedily as possible. The names will be announced in the ordinary way. Of course, a good deal of time must be taken up in the preparatory work, but I think the Commission should set to work seriously before the House resumes.
  Sir HERBERT NIELD: May I ask the right hon. Gentleman, who knows the interest I have in this matter, whether, seeing the feeling that this particular question arouses, he will take unusual care to see that the Commissioners are perfectly impartial?
  Mr. CLYNES: I think that when the personnel is announced it will be seen that that has been the object of the Government.
  Mr. STEPHEN: Can my right hon. Friend tell us anything with regard to the Commissioners to be appointed for Scotland?
  Mr. CLYNES: I understand that the Secretary of State for Scotland will shortly make some announcement on that point.

  EXPORT CREDITS (EXTENSION TO RUSSIA).
  Mr. R. A. TAYLOR(by Private Notice) asked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is in a position to make a statement with regard to the extension of Export Credits to Russia?
  The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. William Graham): As part of the employment policy of my right hon. Friend, the Lord Privy Seal, the Government have decided that the Advisory Committee set up by the Acts governing the Export Credits Guarantee Scheme should be free from the 1st August to consider applications in respect of transactions with Russia.
  Mr. TAYLOR: Is the personnel of the Committee to remain unchanged?
  Mr. GRAHAM: So far as I know at present, there is no question of changing the personnel of the Advisory Committee.
  Mr. ALBERY: May I ask whether this was a condition imposed by the Russian Government before considering the resumption of diplomatic relations?
  Mr. GRAHAM: There is not the slightest foundation for that suggestion.

  CIVIL SERVICE (COST OF LIVING BONUS).
  Mr. BOWEN(by Private Notice) asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the anxiety among civil servants as to their position in regard to the probable drop in the cost of living bonus on 1st September next, he will be able to make a statement on the subject before the House rises?
  The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (Mr. Philip Snowden): Under the operation of the present bonus scheme for the Civil Service, bonus is subject to review on the 1st March and 1st Septmeber each year on the basis of the average cost of living figure (rounded up to the nearest multiple of five points) for the preceding six months. On this basis the bonus now in course of payment is related to a cost of living figure of 70, and it may confidently be assumed that the bonus payable tinder the scheme for the period of six months beginning 1st September next would fall to be
  1494
  assessed on the basis of a cost of living figure of 65. The arrangement by which bonus is recalculated twice a year on 1st March and 1st September is open to serious objection. It means inevitably that the civl servant's remuneration is higher in the summer, when living is cheapest, than in the winter, when living is most expensive. After full and anxious consideration, I have decided that the rate of bonus now payable shall remain in operation for the six-months period begining 1st September next. I estimate that the effect of this modification in the existing scheme will be to increase the remuneration of civil servants during this period of six months to the extent of approximately £800,000.
  Sir WILLIAM MITCHELL-THOMSON: Will that involve a Supplementary Estimate?
  Mr. SNOWDEN: I think it will. I believe the Estimates were framed on the assumption that there would probably be a drop in the present standard.

  ELECTORAL LAW (CONFERENCE).
  Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: May I ask the Prime Minister whether he can make any announcement with regard to the proposed conference on electoral reform?
  The PRIME MINISTER: Yes, Sir. The negotiations for setting up the Committee reached a further stage yesterday, and I hope that a communication which I have addressed to the right hon. Gentleman to-day will enable us to proceed with the setting up of the Committee. I should like, myself, to see the work proceeded with as expeditiously as possible.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Mr. BIRKETT: On a point of Order. There is on the Order Paper a Motion which stands in my name and those of two of my hon. Friends, dealing with the school-leaving age. It has been represented to me that there is some desire to discuss that matter, if opportunity should serve, upon the Motion for the Adjournment. May I ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether I may, with the concurrence of my two hon. Friends and by the general leave of the House, withdraw the Motion on the Paper?
Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid that the hon. and learned Member cannot withdraw what is on the Paper now, but he can give notice to-day that it will not be on the Paper to-morrow.
Ordered,
"That other Government Business have precedence this day of the Business of Supply."—[Mr. P. Snowden.]

BILLS PRESENTED.
  WIDOWS', ORPHANS' AND OLD AGE CONTRIBUTORY PENSIONS BILL.
  "to amend the Widows', Orphans' and Old Age Contributory Pensions Act, 1925, section three of the Old Age Pensions Act, 1908, section three of the Old Age Pensions Act, 1819, and the enactments regulating the right to become a voluntary contributor under the National Health Insurance Acts, 1924 to 1928; and to provide for the exclusion of payments on account of widows' or orphans' pensions in the assessment of damages under the Fatal Accidents Acts, 1846 to 1908," presented by Mr. Greenwood; supported by Mr. W. Adamson, Mr. Pethick-Lawrence, Mr. Johnston, and Miss Lawrence; to be read a Second time upon Monday next, and to be printed. [Bill 18.]
  COAST PROTECTION BILL.
  "to make further and better provision for the protection of the coast of the United Kingdom against erosion; for the management in the interests of the public of the shore and bed of the sea and other tidal waters, and with respect to the construction, regulation, and removal of works thereon; and for the transfer from the Admiralty to the Board of Trade of certain powers relating to harbours, conservancy, or navigation; and for other purposes connected with the matters aforesaid and with the foreshore," presented by Mr. William Graham; supported by Mr. W. Adamson, Mr. Greenwood, Mr. Noel Buxton, and Mr. Walter Smith; to be read a Second time upon Monday next, and to be printed. [Bill 19.]

  THIRD PARTIES (RIGHTS AGAINST INSURERS) BILL.
  "to confer on third parties rights against insurers of third-party risks in the event of the insured becoming insolvent, and in certain other events."
  1496
  presented by Mr. Clynes; supported by Mr. W. Adamson and the Solicitor-General; to be read a Second time upon Monday next, and to be printed. [Bill 20.]

  COLLECTING CHARITIES (REGULATION) BILL.
  "to provide for the investigation and regulation of charities appealing to the public for support," presented by Mr. Clynes; supported by Mr. Short; to be read a Second time upon Monday next, and to be printed. [Bill 21.]

MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
That they have agreed to,—

Colonial Development Bill,

Housing (Revision of Contributions) Bill,

Development (Loan Guarantees and Grants) Bill,

Ayr Burgh Order Confirmation Bill,

Dundee, Broughty Ferry, and District Traction Order Confirmation Bill,

Dundee Corporation Order Confirmation Bill,

Falkirk and District Traction Order Confirmation Bill,

Lanarkshire, Renfrewshire, and Dumbartonshire Education Authorities Order Confirmation Bill,

Ministry of Health Provisional Orders (No. 7) Bill,

Ministry of Health Provisional Orders (No. 8) Bill,

Ministry of Health Provisional Orders (No. 9) Bill,

Ministry of Health Provisional Orders (No. 10) Bill, without Amendment.

Amendments to—
Stoke-on-Trent Extension Bill [Lords], without Amendment.

ORDERS OF THE DAY.
  LAND DRAINAGE BILL. [Lords.]
  Read the Third time, and passed, without Amendment.
  ARBITRATION (FOREIGN AWARDS) BILL. [Lords.]
  Read a Second time, and committed to a Standing Committee.

  SUPPLY.
  REPORT [24th July.]
  Resolutions reported:

  SUPPLY.
    CIVIL ESTIMATES, SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE, 1929.
      Class IV.
      1. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £106,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1930, for the Salaries and Expenses of the National Gallery, and of the National Gallery of British Art, Millbank, including a Grant-in-Aid for the purchase of Pictures."

      Class IX.
      2. "That a sum, not exceeding £100,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1930, for a Grant-in-Aid of the National Radium Trust."
      First Resolution agreed to.
      Second Resolution read a Second time.
      Motion made and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."
      4.0 p.m.
      Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY: I do not want to delay the House, as we have made such very good progress, but I would like to put one or two questions on this matter to the representative of the Minister of Health, or perhaps my hon. and learned Friend the Solicitor-General would be good enough to answer them, as I know he takes a great interest in this matter, and is one of those who have noticed with great alarm the short supplies of radium in this country and its increasing price. I know also that he is aware of the vital nature of the problem, and how necessary it is to meet it. The point which
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      I desire to make, and which I do not think was covered during the Committee stage yesterday, is that sooner or later it will be necessary for international action to be taken to conserve and distribute the supplies of this vitally necessary medical substance, and, furthermore, to prevent undue increases in its price. In the time of the last Government, the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Woolwich (Sir K. Wood) and the late Minister of Health set up the Sub-Committee on whose Report this Estimate is based, and I know that they were exercised about this aspect of the question. You may at present have one Government competing against another. Already the Australian Government have taken steps to purchase £130,000 worth of radium. The Swedish Government have purchased a number of grammes, the Greek Government have done the same, and now His Majesty's Government have also taken this necessary action. Sooner or later you will have one Government competing against another, and the price will rise. In the most friendly way to my right hon. Friend I would ask him to continue the inquiries which were, I believe, put in hand by the Ministry of Health before, and have this very important aspect of the question explored. I throw that out only as a helpful suggestion. I followed this matter during the last Parliament. There will be general agreement as to its very great importance, and perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will see his way to have the necessary inquiry pursued.
      Captain BOURNE: There are two questions I want to put to the Minister. I am sure everybody in this House agrees as to the desirability of this Estimate, but I notice that in his speech he referred to the accounts of the Radium Trust, and also, I thought, of the Radium Commission, but on that point I was not quite clear. The money now being voted, together with that raised by private subscription, will purchase, I understand, 17½ grammes of radium. Is it intended, in the first place, to buy radium straight off, or very rapidly, or is it intended to invest some of this money in buying radium bit by bit? The second question I want to ask is, whether the Radium Trust or the Commission intend to be a profit-making body, letting out the

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      radium, or does it intend to make free grants to the hospitals? If they are to be free, I do not quite see what accounts can be laid before this House, and, purely from the financial aspect, we are entitled to some explanation from the Minister.
      The MINISTER of HEALTH (Mr. Arthur Greenwood): On the question of radium supplies, I should imagine that the Trust will be only too anxious to cooperate with any other nation to get its supply at the lowest possible price. That is a problem which is causing anxiety, not only to us, but to other countries as well.
      Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY: I suggest that the question might be explored through the very excellent machinery of the League of Nations, especially the health section, which, I believe, is most efficient.
      Mr. GREENWOOD: I am considering that question now. The health section of the League of Nations has already had radium under its notice, and has just recently published a highly technical report. On the matter of radium accounts, the accounts will be laid before Parliament. The difference is that they will not be accounted for in detail by the Accountant-General, as in the case of ordinary Departmental accounts, because, strictly speaking, part of the money is not public money in the ordinary sense; but the Treasury will require both the Trust and the Commission to present annual reports and accounts, to be audited by the Auditor-General, and Parliament will have as full information as it could have in the ordinary way. On the question of the purchase of radium, the matter is one, of course, for the Radium Trust, but the general idea was to purchase by instalments. If we go into the market to buy £250,000 worth or more of radium, obviously we might easily put up the market against us, and a great deal of care will have to be taken. I imagine the procedure will be to buy in a favourable market. It is not proposed that the Commission should operate at a profit. Of course, local hospitals will not be given radium; they will be lent the radium, which will continue to be held legally by the Radium Trust. It is proposed to make a small charge for the loan of the radium towards the cost of
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      the administration of the scheme, and it is in that respect primarily that the accounts of the Commission will come before the House.
      Question, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution," put, and agreed to.

  ELECTRICITY (SUPPLY) ACTS.
  Resolved,
  "That the Special Order made by the Electricity Commissioners under the Electricity (Supply) Acts, 1882 to 1928, and confirmed by the Minister of Transport under the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1919, in respect of parts of the rural district of Axminster, in the county of Devon, which was presented on the 2nd day of July, 1929, be approved."
  Resolved,
  "That the Special Order made by the Electricity Commissioners under the Electricity (Supply) Acts, 1882 to 1928, and confirmed by the Minister of Transport under the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1919, in respect of the urban district of Bromyard, the rural district of Bromyard, and part of the rural district of Ledbury, in the county of Hereford, which was presented on the 2nd day of July, 1929, be approved."
  Resolved,
  "That the Special Order made by the Electricity Commissioners under the Electricity (Supply) Acts, 1882 to 1928, and confirmed by the Minister of Transport under the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1919, in respect of the boroughs of Beverley and Hedon, the urban district of Cottingham, and parts of the rural districts of Beverley, Skirlaugh, Sculcoates, and Patrington, in the East Riding of the county of York, and for the amendment of the Kingston-upon-Hull Electric Lighting (Extension) Order, 1915, and the Kingston-upon-Hull Electricity (Extension) Special Order, 1922, which was presented on the 2nd day of July, 1929, be approved."
  Resolved,
  "That the Special Order made by the Electricity Commissioners under the Electricity (Supply) Acts, 1882 to 1928, and confirmed by the Minister of Transport under the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1919, in respect of the rural district of Misterton, in the county of Nottingham, which was presented on the 2nd day of July, 1929, be approved."
  Resolved,
  "That the Special Order made by the Electricity Commissioners under the Electricity (Supply) Acts, 1882 to 1928, and confirmed by the Minister of Transport under the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1919, in respect of the urban districts of Stanhope and Tow Law and part of the rural dis-

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  trict of Weardale, in the county of Durham which was presented on the 2nd day of July, 1929, be approved."
  Resolved,
  "That the Special Order made by the-Electricity Commissioners under the Electricity (Supply) Acts, 1882 to 1928, and confirmed by the Minister of Transport under the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1919, in respect of the rural district of Tamworth, in the counties of Stafford and Warwick, part of the rural district of Atherstone, in the county of Warwick, and parts of the rural districts of Ashby-de-la-Zouch and Market Bosworth, in the county of Leicester, which was presented on the 2nd day of July, 1929, be approved."
  Resolved,
  "That the Special Order made by the Electricity Commissioners under the Electricity (Supply) Acts, 1882 to 1928, and confirmed by the Minister of Transport under the Electricity (Supply) Act, 1919, in respect of the urban district of Bonsall, and parts of the rural districts of Ashbourne, Belper, Repton, and Sudbury, and the parish of Codnor Park and township of Shipley, in the rural district administered by the Basford rural district council, in the county of Derby, which was presented on the 9th day of July, 1929, be approved."—[Mr. Herbert Morrison.]

  GAS UNDERTAKINGS ACTS.
  Resolved,
  That the draft of a Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under the Gas Undertakings Acts, 1920 and 1929, on the application of the Cleveland Gas Company, which was presented on the 2nd day of July and published, be approved, subject to the following modifications:—
  Page 1, in the sub-heading, leave out "section ten of the Gas Regulation Act, 1920 (10 and 11 Geo. V., c. 28)," and insert "the Gas Undertakings Acts, 1920 and 1929";
  Clause 3, sub-clause (1), line 3, leave out "Gas Regulation Act, 1920," and insert "Gas Undertakings Acts, 1920 and 1929";
  Page 2, after line 17, insert "'The appointed day' means the first day of January, 1930 ";
  Page 4, Clause 9, line 2, leave out from "by meter," to the end of the Clause, and insert "after the appointed day shall not exceed sixteen decimal eight pence per therm";
  Clause 10, sub-clause (1), line 1, leave out "Within three months from the date of this Order," and insert "On or before the 1st day of 'October, 1929";
  Clause 10, sub-clause (1), line 4, leave out from "calorific value") to end of the sub-clause, and insert "on and after the appointed day";
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  Page 5, Clause 10, sub-clause (2), line 1, leave out "After the declared date," and insert "As from the appointed day";
  Clause 10, sub-clause (2), leave out the Proviso;
  Page 5, Clause 15, line 1, leave out "The following sections and parts of sections," and insert "Sections two, five, six, seven, and nine";
  Clause 15, line 3, leave out "declared date," and insert "appointed day."
  Page 6, in line 1, leave out from "under," to the end of the Clause, and insert" section six of the Gas Undertakings Act, 1929 (19 and 20 Geo. V., c. 24) in respect of the undertaking ";
  Clause 16, sub-clause (2), line 1, leave out "declared date," and insert "appointed day";
  Page 19, Clause 43, line 2, after "repealed," insert "as from the appointed day."
  Resolved,
  That the draft of a Special Order proposed to be made by the Board of Trade under the Gas Undertakings Acts, 1920 and 1929, on the application of the Mayor, Aldermen, and Burgesses of the county borough of Stockport, which was presented on the 2nd day of July and published, be approved, subject to the following modifications:—
  Page 1, in sub-heading, leave out "section ten of the Gas Regulation Act, 1920 (10 and 11 Geo. V., c. 28)," and insert "the Gas Undertakings Acts, 1920 and 1929";
  Page 2, Clause 3, line 4, leave out "Gas Regulation Act. 1920," and insert "Gas Undertakings Acts, 1920 and 1929";
  Page 3, after line 9, insert "'The appointed day' means the first day of January, 1930";
  Page 8, Clause 19, sub-clause (1), line 1, leave out "Within three months from the date of this Order," and insert "On or before the first day of October, 1929";
  Clause 19, sub-clause (1), line 4, leave out from "calorific value")," to the end of sub-clause (1), and insert "on and after the appointed day";
  Clause 19, sub-clause (2), line 1, leave out "After the declared date," and insert "On and after the appointed day";
  Page 9, Clause 19, sub-clause (2), leave out the proviso;
  Clause 20, sub-clause (1), line 1, leave out "After the declared date," and insert "On and after the appointed day";
  Page 10, Clause 25, line 1, leave out "The following sections and parts of sections," and insert "Sections two, five, six, seven, and nine ";

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  Clause 25, line 3, leave out "declared date," and insert "appointed day";
  Clause 25, line 4, leave out "section one of that Act," and insert "section six of the Gas Undertakings Act, 1929 (19 and 20 Geo. V., c. 24) ";
  Clause 25, line 5, leave out from "undertaking," to the end of the Clause.—[Mr. William Whiteley.]
  The remaining Orders were read, and postponed.

  ADJOURNMENT.
  Resolved, "That this House do now adjourn."—[Mr. William Whiteley.]
  Adjourned accordingly at Eleven Minutes after Four o'Clock.