HC Deb 06 December 1928 vol 223 cc1549-61
Mr. W. BAKER

I beg to move, in page 5, line 8, at the end, to insert the words: or for any payments in respect of the provident fund, the pension guarantee fund, or the pension fund. The purpose of this Amendment is to obtain some information as to the Government's intentions with regard to the accumulated sums which I understand are held in the provident fund, in the pension guarantee fund, and in the pensions fund of the Pacific Cable Board. As far as I can see, the Bill contains no reference, even of an indirect character, to this subject and when I mentioned the matter earlier no reply was vouchsafed. With your permission, Sir, I will couple with the reference to these three funds, an inquiry as to the proposals of the Government with regard to the men who are affected. I would ask, if I might, that the Assistant Postmaster-General, who deals with all staff matters, should handle the replies in order that we may have the fullest possible information.

A number of Post Office men will be affected by this Bill, because, although they transferred from provincial offices to London in order that they might place themselves at the disposal of the Government in the development of the beam service, there is very grave danger that, with the transfer of the beam resulting from the passage of this Bill, these men will find that the positions they came to London to occupy will no longer be there for them to fill and that the positions which they formerly filled in the provinces will have been filled up by other candidates by this time; and in the absence of an assurance from the Assistant Postmaster-General that these men will be no worse off as a result of the passage of this legislation, I shall feel remarkably disturbed. I hope that that assurance will be forthcoming. There seems to be no reason whatever why skilled Government servants should be penalised because of this change of policy, and I would ask that the assurance with regard to the Post Office staff itself should be made to cover the men who are employed under the Marconi Company, who, I understand, may be prejudiced as a result of this big merger and amalgamation.

As regards the funds themselves, I understand that the balance of the Provident Fund on 31st March, 1928, was £172,199 15s. 7d.; and I shall be glad if we can be told in the hands of what trustees that sum of money will be placed, exactly how it will be dealt with in the future, whether contributions are to continue to be made to it, and, if so, from what source. Then there is the Pension Guarantee Fund, the balance of which, on the 31st March, 1928, was £31,862 5s. That, I believe, is not the actual value at the moment, but the cost of the securities which formed that fund at the date when they were purchased. Finally, we have the Pension Fund itself, which, taking securities and cash, amounts to £139,860 5s. 10d. I think these sums are sufficiently large to warrant mention in this discussion, and I hope we shall have a full statement with regard to them from the Noble Lord, if that is possible.

Then there is an inquiry in regard to the staff of the West India cable and the West Indian wireless services. That staff is not specifically referred to, and I shall be glad if we can be told whether they are included in the reference to the staff of the Pacific Cable Board. My final inquiry is one which I have already made to-day, although without success, and that is whether we can be told what is the total staff affected by this Bill, where that staff is allocated at present, what is the position with regard to early retirements, and how many men are likely to he transferred to the merger when this Bill has become an Act.

Mr. A. M. SAMUEL

I think I can give the hon. Member the information that he desires. In the first place, there is no Post Office servant engaged on the West Indian Cable. There is no pension or pension guarantee fund attached to the West Indian undertaking. There is a provident fund, but that has nothing to do with the arrangement for the ultimate provision and regulation of the sums paid for the West Indian Telegraphs.

Mr. BAKER

I hope that we are not at cross-purposes. I understood that this Amendment was accepted with reference to the provident fund, the pension guarantee fund, and the pension fund of the Pacific Cable Board. If it does not so refer, it has been put down in the wrong place.

Mr. SAMUEL

The hon. Gentleman will find that it does so refer. Similar funds attached to the Pacific Cable Board have not been overlooked, and that has been dealt with. It is not possible to deal with those funds in a public Bill, as the rights of individuals are affected, but the Pacific Cable Board, at the instance of the Government, are promoting a private Bill to protect the interests of the staff in respect of these funds, and the necessary notices of a private Bill have already been published.

Mr. BAKER

I have to express my regret that the hon. Gentleman has failed to answer the question which I have put to him. He tells me that no Post Office staff is employed on the West Indian Cables. That is not what I asked. What I specifically said was that certain Post Office men were invited to come to London to take positions in the Post Office in order to assist the Postmaster-General to develop the beam wireless service.

Mr. SAMUEL

That has nothing to do with the Bill.

Mr. BAKER

It has a great deal to do with the Bill.

The DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN

I must ask the hon. Member to explain how that is so. The Clause deals with a fund which is presumed to apply to the Pacific Cable undertaking and the West Indian undertaking.

Mr. BAKER

I thought that I explained that the purpose of the Amendment was to elicit information; and it was to secure an assurance as to the future of the staff, both directly and indirectly affected, that I tabled the Amendment. I have made inquiries and if there is any difficulty in pursuing my inquiries with regard to the Post Office staff, I can only ask the Postmaster-General to have regard to what I have said, and to look into it. To come to the Amendment, the Financial Secretary has been good enough to tell us that the question of the fund cannot be dealt with in a public Bill. What is the cost of private legislation, and is that cost going to be placed on the backs of the-men who are entitled to benefit from the provident fund? If that be so, it is an unsatisfactory position.

Mr. TOWNEND

The object of the Amendment is to obtain from the Government an assurance that the interests of the staffs concerned will be adequately safeguarded by the Government when eventually consent is given to the scheme in this Bill. I submit that a definite assurance can be given on the authority of the Government, as was already done where previously similar interests were in jeopardy as a result of a Bill seven years ago. In 1921 the Railways Bill was before the House, and amounts to the extent of several millions of pounds, which to a large extent belonged to the staffs of the respective companies, were involved. The House then had before them a merger on a far larger scale, but applying exactly the same principle that we are now discussing. I submit the Government ought to give to the staff of the Pacific Cable and other companies equally as definite an assurance as they gave in the case of the railway employés by accepting this Amendment, to-night.

Mr. SAMUEL

I can give the hon. Member the information asked for. With regard to the cost of the private Bill, it will be paid for by His Majesty's Government and there will be no charge on the company. The cost will be approximately about £400.

Mr. BENN

But there is no Money Resolution authorising this expenditure. Without that the Government cannot promote a Bill and charge the cost on money provided by Parliament. There is not a word about the provision of money for this purpose.

Mr. GILLETT

I wish to ask the Minister what chance there is of a private Bill getting through Parliament this Session. If it does not get through before the 1st April, by which time the Board is to be dissolved, who is going to be responsible? If the private Bill has not gone through by 1st April, what is going to happen? Will the Government make themselves responsible for seeing the Bill through?

Mr. W. GRAHAM

This undoubtedly is a point of substance and one on which the Committee are entitled to rather fuller information. I agree that the Amendment might have come more appropriately on Sub-section (1), but the precise position of it does not substantially alter the case. The short facts are that there is a provident fund in the case of the West Indian Company, and in the case of the Pacific Cable Company, there are, I understand, both provident and superannuation fund. These amount, as the White Paper indicates, to a very substantial sum, and in all superannuation funds there is not only the question, of first class importance, of the protection of the capital sums involved, but also of protecting the continuity of the superannuation arrangements. The reply which has been given by the Financial Secretary to the Treasury throws very considerable doubt on that point.

The hon. Member for Stockport (Mr. Townend) has cited a perfectly proper case in the Railways Act, 1921. There we were dealing with the employés of railway companies, not employés of the State. There was in that public legislation a certain provision covering the future of those funds, and no doubt it was supplemented by the particular companies. In this case we have not the Communications Company definitely created, there is, I think, some kind of hiatus, and the Financial Secretary now tells as that the task of providing for the new superannuation arrangements is to be undertaken in a Bill to be promoted by the Government and presumably paid for by the Government. I agree that no burden ought to fall upon these provident and superannuation funds in the case of a transfer which was not promoted by the staffs and over which they have no control. But the question which remains is, if that is to be effected by a Bill at the Government expense, what is the difficulty of making provision in this Bill as has been done in other Acts of Parliament? Is it the difficulty of our relationship with other Governments with whom we are connected, or what is the real difficulty? That is the point which in my view the Government should make perfectly clear.

Sir W. MITCHELL-THOMSON

This is a Measure affecting the rights of private individuals, and it can only be dealt with by a private Bill.

Mr. BENN

If the Pacific Cable Board is abolished, how can it promote a Private Bill?

Sir W. MITCHELL-THOMSON

The Pacific Cable Board is not abolished until the undertaking is transferred.

Mr. BENN

Would it not be much better to think all these things out before bringing a Bill of this kind before Parliament. It is clear that the Government have not thought of the difficulties regarding the staffs, and now they say that money will be available for the promotion of a Bill that we are told will be promoted by the Pacific Cable Board which is going to be abolished on the appointed day. It would have been more to the credit of the Government if they had really thought out this scheme, to say nothing about the mysteries which are involved in other parts of this Measure. Perhaps, under these circumstances, the Government will agree to accept this Amendment.

Question put, "That those words be there inserted."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 136; Noes, 192.

Division No. 32.] AYES. [10.48 p.m.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) Scurr, John
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Sexton, James
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') Hardie, George D. Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston)
Ammon, Charles George Hayday, Arthur Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Burnley) Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Baker, Walter Henderson, T. (Glasgow) Shinwell, E.
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) Hirst, G. H. Slesser, Sir Henry H.
Barnes, A. Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) Smillie, Robert
Barr, J. Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)
Batey, Joseph Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) Smith, Rennle (Peniston)
Beckett, John (Gateshead) John, William (Rhondda, West) Snell, Harry
Bellamy, A. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip
Benn, Wedgwood Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) Stamford, T. W.
Bondfield, Margaret Kelly, W. T. Stephen, Campbell
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Kennedy, T. Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)
Briant, Frank Kirkwood, D. Strauss, E. A.
Broad, F. A. Lawrence, Susan Sullivan, Joseph
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Lawson, John James Sutton, J. E.
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) Lee, F. Taylor, R. A.
Buchanan, G. Livingstone, A. M. Thurtle, Ernest
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel Longbottom, A. W. Tinker, John Joseph
Cape, Thomas Lunn, William Tomlinson, R. P.
Charleton, H. c. MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R.(Aberavon) Townend, A. E.
Cluse, W. S. Macdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness) Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles
Compton, Joseph Mackinder, W. Viant, S. P.
Connolly, M. Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) Walsh, Rt. Hon. Stephen
Dalton, Hugh March, S. Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) Maxton, James Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah
Day, Harry Murnin, H. Wellock, Wilfred
Duncan, C. Naylor, T. E. Welsh, J C.
Dunnico, H. Oliver, George Harold Westwood J.
Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) Owen, Major G. Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J.
Fenby, T. D. Palin, John Henry Wilkinson, Ellen C.
Gardner, J. P. Paling, W. Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham)
Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) Williams, David (Swansea, East)
Gibbins, Joseph Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly)
Gillett, George M. Ponsonby, Arthur Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Gosting, Harry Potts, John S. Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Rees, Sir Beddoe Windsor, Walter
Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Wright, W.
Greenall, T. Riley, Ben Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) Ritson, J.
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O.(W. Bromwich) TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Griffith, F. Kingsley Sakiatvala, Shapurji Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. Whiteley.
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) Salter, Dr. Alfred
Grundy, T. W. Scrymgeour, E.
NOES.
Albery, Irving James Burman, J. B. Curzon, Captain Viscount
Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) Cautley, Sir Henry S. Davidson, Rt. Hon. J. (Hertford)
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) Davies, Dr. Vernon
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R. (Prtsmth, S.) Dawson, Sir Philip
Astor, Maj. Hon. John J. (Kent, Dover) Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) Dean, Arthur Wellesley
Atholl, Duchess of Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton Drewe, C.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) Edmondson, Major A. J.
Balniel, Lord Charteris, Brigadier-General J. Ellis, R. G.
Banks, Sir Reginald Mitchell Christie, J. A. Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South)
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Churchman, Sir Arthur C. Everard, W. Lindsay
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon Clayton, G. C. Falle, Sir Bertram G.
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Cobb, Sir Cyril Fermoy, Lord
Boothby, R. J. G. Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D Ford, Sir P. J.
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips Forestier-Walker, Sir L.
Bowyer, Captain G. E. W. Colman, N. C. D. Forrest, W.
Brass, Captain W. Cooper, A. Duff Foster, Sir Harry S.
Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive Cope, Major Sir William Foxcroft, Captain C. T.
Briscoe, Richard George Couper, J. B. Gadie, Lieut.-Col. Anthony
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islingtn, N.) Galbraith, J. F. W.
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. Craig, Sir Ernest (Chester, Crewe) Ganzoni, Sir John
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) Gates, Percy
Buckingham, Sir H. Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro) Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton
Pullock, Captain M. Culverwell, C. T. (Bristol, West) Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John
Glyn, Major R. G. C. Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman Sandeman, N. Stewart
Gower, Sir Robert Mac Andrew, Major Charles Glen Sanders, Sir Robert A.
Grace, John Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) Savery, S. S.
Grant, Sir J. A. McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus Sheffield, Sir Berkeley
Greaves-Lord, Sir Walter MacIntyre, Ian Skelton, A. N.
Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London) McLean, Major A. Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)
Grotrian, H. Brent Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm Smithers, Waldron
Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel- Stanley, Lord (Fylde)
Hacking, Douglas H. Makins, Brigadier-General E. Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland)
Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) Margesson, Captain D. Steel, Major Samuel Strang
Hammersley, S. S. Marriott, Sir J. A. R. Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H.
Harland, A. Mason, Colonel Glyn K. Streatfelld, Captain S. R.
Hartington, Marquess of Merriman, Sir F. Boyd Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C.
Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) Milne, J. S. Wardlaw Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser
Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. Sugden, Sir Wilfrid
Henn, Sir Sydney H. Moore, Sir Newton J. Tasker, R. Inigo.
Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. Moreing, Captain A. H. Templeton, W. P.
Hills, Major John Waller Nail, Colonel Sir Joseph Thompson, Luke (Sunderland)
Hilton, Cecil Nelson, Sir Frank Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South)
Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) Neville, Sir Reginald J. Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell-
Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar) Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. Nicholson, O. (Westminster) Wallace, Captain D. E.
Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William Warrender, Sir Victor
Hume, Sir G. H. Perkins, Colonel E. K. Waterhouse, Captain Charles
Hurd, Percy A. Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome) Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
Iliffe, Sir Edward M. Power, Sir John Cecil Watts, Sir Thomas
James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert Preston, Sir Walter (Cheltenham) Wayland, Sir William A.
Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton) Price, Major C. W. M. Wells, S. R.
Kennedy, A. R. (Preston) Raine, Sir Walter White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dalrymple-
Kindersley, Major Guy M. Reid, D. D. (County Down) Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
King, Commodore Henry Douglas Remer, J. R. Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay)
Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement Rentoul, G. S. Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield)
Knox, Sir Alfred Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Lamb, J. Q. Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell Wolmer, Viscount
Lister, Cunliffe, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip Ropner, Major L. Womersley, W. J.
Little, Dr. E. Graham Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. Woodcock, Colonel H. C.
Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) Wright, Brig.-General W. D.
Loder, J. de V. Rye, F. G.
Long, Major Eric Salmon, Major I. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Looker, Herbert William Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) Mr. Penny and Major The Marquess of Titchfield.

Motion made, and Question put, "That Clause stand part of the Bill."

Division No. 33.] AYES. [10.57 p.m.
Albery, Irving James Charteris, Brigadier-General J. Foster, Sir Harry S
Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) Christie, J. A. Foxcroft, Captain C. T.
Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E.
Applin, Colonel R. V. K. Churchman, Sir Arthur C Gadie, Lieut.-Col. Anthony
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. Clayton, G. C. Galbraith, J. F. W.
Astor, Maj. Hn. John J. (Kent, Dover) Cobb, Sir Cyril Ganzoni, Sir John
Atholl, Duchess of Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. Gates, Percy
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Colfox, Major Wm. Philip Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton
Balniel, Lord Colman, N. C. D. Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John
Banks, Sir Reginald Mitchell Cooper, A. Duff Gower, Sir Robert
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Cope, Major Sir William Grace, John
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Couper, J. B. Grant, Sir J. A.
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islingtn., N.) Greaves-Lord, Sir Walter
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Craig, Sir Ernest (Chester, Crewe) Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London)
Bevan, S. J. Crooke, J. Smedley (Deriland) Grotrian, H. Brent
Birchall, Major J. Dearman Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro) Hacking, Douglas H.
Boothby, R. J. G. Culverwell, C. T. (Bristol, West) Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.)
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft Curzon, Captain Viscount Hammersley, S. S.
Brass, Captain W. Davidson, Rt, Hon. J. (Hertford) Harland, A.
Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive Davies, Dr. Vernon Hartington, Marquess of
Briscoe. Richard George Dawson, Sir Philip Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes)
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Dean, Arthur Wellesley Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxford, Henley)
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. Edmondson, Major A. J. Henderson, Lieut.-Col. Sir Vivian
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C.(Berks, Newb'y) Elliot, Major Walter E. Heneage, Lieut.-Col. Arthur P.
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Ellis, R. G. Henn, Sir Sydney H.
Buckingham, Sir H. Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J.
Bullock, Captain M. Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South) Hills, Major John Waller
Burman, J. B. Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) Hilton, Cecil
Cassels, J. D. Everard, W. Lindsay Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar)
Cautley, Sir Henry S. Falle, Sir Bertram G. Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K.
Cayzer Sir C. (Chester, City) Fenby, T. D. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M.(Hackney, N.)
Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R. (Prtsmth, S.) Fermoy, Lord Hume, Sir G. H.
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) Ford, Sir P. J. Hurd, Percy A.
Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton Forestier-Walker, Sir L. Iliffe, Sir Edward M.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) Forrest, W. James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert

The Committee divided: Ayes, 205; the Noes, 126.

Jones, Sir G. W. H. (Stoke New'gton) Nelson, Sir Frank Steel, Major Samuel Strang
Kennedy, A. R. (Preston) Neville, Sir Reginald J. Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H.
Kindersley, Major Guy M. Newton, sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) Strauss, E. A.
King, Commodore Henry Douglas Nicholson, O. (Westminster) Streatfeild, Captain S. R.
Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C.
Knox, Sir Alfred Owen, Major G. Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Lamb, J. Q. Perkins, Colonel E. K. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser
Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome) Sugden, Sir Wilfrid
Little, Dr. E. Graham Power, Sir John Cecil Tasker, R. Inigo.
Livingstone, A. M. Pownall, Sir Asshetan Templeton, W. P.
Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) Preston, Sir Walter (Cheltenham) Thompson, Luke (Sunderland)
Loder, J. de V. Price, Major C. W. M. Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South)
Long, Major Eric Raine, Sir Walter Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell-
Looker, Herbert William Rees, Sir Beddoe Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Luce, Maj.-Gen. Sir Richard Harman Reid, D. D. (County Down) Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen Remer, J. R. Wallace, Captain D. E.
Macdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness) Rentoul, G. S. Warrender, Sir Victor
Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) Waterhouse, Captain Charles
McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus Rodd, Rt. Hon. Sir James Rennell Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
MacIntyre, I. Ropner, Major L. Watts, Sir Thomas
McLean, Major A. Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. Wayland, Sir William A.
Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) Wells, S. R.
Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel- Rye, F. G. White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dalrymple-
Makins, Brigadier-General E. Salmon, Major I. Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
Margesson, Captain D. Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay)
Marriott, Sir J. A. R. Sandeman, N. Stewart Williams, C. p. (Denbigh, Wrexham)
Mason, Colonel Glyn K. Sanders, Sir Robert A. Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield)
Merriman, Sir F. Boyd Savery, S. S. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Milne, J. S. Wardlaw Sheffield, Sir Berkeley Wolmer, Viscount
Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) Skelton, A. N. Womersley, W. J.
Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) Woodcock, Colonel H. C.
Moore, Sir Newton J. Smithers, Waldron Wright, Brig.-General W. D.
Moreing, Captain A. H. Stanley, Lord (Fylde)
Nail, Colonel Sir Joseph Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Captain Bowyer and Mr. Penny.
NOES.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. w. (Fife, West) Grundy, T. W. Salter, Dr. Alfred
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) Scrymgeour, E.
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Scurr, John
Ammon, charles George Hardie, George D. Sexton, James
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) Hayday, Arthur Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston)
Baker, Walter Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Burnley) Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) Henderson, T. (Glasgow) Shinwell, E.
Barnes, A. Hirst, G. H. Slesser, Sir Henry H.
Barr, J. Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) Smillie, Robert
Batey, Joseph Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)
Beckett, John (Gateshead) Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) Smith, Rennle (Penistone)
Bellamy, A. John, William (Rhondda, West) Snell, Harry
Benn, Wedgwood Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip
Bondfield, Margaret Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) Stamford, T. W.
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Kelly, W. T. Stephen, Campbell
Briant, Frank Kennedy, T. Sullivan, Joseph
Broad, F. A. Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M. Sutton, J. E.
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) Kirkwood, D. Taylor, R. A.
Buchanan, G. Lawrence, Susan Thurtle, Ernest
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel Lawson, John James Tinker, John Joseph
Cape, Thomas Lee, F. Tomlinson, R. P.
Charleton, H. C. Longbottom, A. W. Townend, A. E.
Cluse, W. S. Lunn, William Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles
Compton, Joseph MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R.(Aberavon) Viant, S. P.
Connolly, M. Mackinder, W. Walsh, Rt. Hon. Stephen
Dalton, Hugh Malone, C. L'Estrange (N'thampton) Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) March, S. Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) Maxton, James Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Joslah
Day, Harry Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Wellock, Wilfred
Duncan, C. Murnin, H. Welsh, J. C.
Dunnico, H. Naylor, T. E. Westwood, J.
Gardner, J. P. Oliver, George Harold Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J.
Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. Palin, John Henry Wilkinson, Ellen C.
Gibbins, Joseph Paling, W. Williams, David (Swansea, East)
Gillett, George M. Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly)
Gosling, Harry Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Ponsonby, Arthur Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) Potts, John S. Windsor, Walter
Greenall, T. Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Wright, W.
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) Riley, Ben Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) Ritson, J.
Griffith, F. Kingsley Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Bromwich) TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) Sakiatvala, Shapurji Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr.Whiteley.

It being after Eleven of the clock, the Chairman left the Chair to make his report to the House.

The Clerk at the Table informed the House of the unavoidable absence of Mr. Speaker from the remainder of this clay's sitting.

Whereupon Mr. HOPE, the Chairman of Ways and Means, took the Chair as Deputy Speaker, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Committee report Progress; to sit again To-morrow.