HC Deb 22 November 1927 vol 210 cc1651-762

Considered in Committee—[Progress, 21st November, 1927.]

[Captain FITZROY in the Chair.]

Mr. T. SHAW

I beg to move, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."

Last night we found ourselves in a very peculiar position. In order thoroughly to understand this Bill it is essential that we should have certain information from the Department. The information we have up to the present is certainly incomplete, not to say unsatisfactory. For instance, we have a statement that the effect of the Bill will, in the estimation of the Minister, be to take away 30,000 people in 1929. The statement definitely made by the Government Actuary, dealing with an almost similar state of things in 1924–5, is that 20 per cent. is his estimate of the number of people who will be taken away by the provisions of this Bill. Between these two estimates there is such an enormous difference that it seems to us essential that the Minister should have the opportunity of presenting a White Paper in order to show to the Committee what the position is before we are asked to deal with the Bill any further. It is in the interests of the Conservative party, as well as of our party, to know exactly what the conditions are. The Actuary estimates that the provisions in this Bill would, on the basis of 1924–25, when the conditions were little different, take 20 per cent, from the register. The Minister, speaking of 1929, said: Subject to the allowances and necessary hypothesis that we had to make, the figure we came to as the most precise estimate that could be made, in the circumstances, of the number of people, additional to those already disqualified who would, in April, 1929, be added under the Bill, to the number of disqualified persons, was 30,000."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 21st November, 1927; col. 1529, Vol. 210.] I suggest it is essential that we should report Progress to give the Minister an opportunity of presenting a printed paper that can be analysed and criticised in order that we may know exactly where we are. At present the state of things is so unsatisfactory that it is impossible for us to estimate what the Bill will mean. Then, again, with regard to the effect of the Bill on the Poor Law authorities, which is one of the principal arguments against the Bill, we are left with the same indistinct kind of information; well, it is not information—we are left with an absolute lack of knowledge of the information in the possession of the Department. We get a statement as to the number of people who have been refused benefit, and who do not apply for benefit to the guardians inside the first fortnight after they are refused, but I venture to suggest to the Minister that if he had the opportunity that we are asking he should have, he would have time to give us in a White Paper the information that has been given to him from guardians throughout the country, which shows conclusively what the effect has been in their own areas. We are entitled, before we proceed any further with the Committee stages of this Bill, to this definite and precise information in printed form, in order that we may form an idea of what the condition of affairs is. It is in order to give the Minister himself an opportunity of telling the Committee what information he has at his disposal, how these hypotheses of which he speaks have been made, and on what he bases his statement, so that we may examine it, check it, if necessary criticise it—it is in order that we may give him an opportunity of making this statement and of strengthening the case for his Bill, as much as for our own personal opportunity, that I move that the Chairman do report Progress.

The MINISTER of LABOUR (Sir Arthur Steel-Maitland)

I should be very glad to give the right hon. Member and the Members of this Committee the information in a White Paper. I gather that particularly what he wants is the effect of the 30 contributions rule in disqualifying those persons not at present disqualified; also an estimate of the classes who are now disqualified who will not he disqualified under the new Bill; and the net effect of the new Bill. I will give all the information I possess on that score, and I will gladly issue it in a White Paper as soon as it is possible to do it. As regards the effect on the Poor Law, I have not got any complete figures, but I will communicate with the right hon. Gentleman as soon as I have been able to refer to the Department, to see what I can get.

Mr. SHAW

Does the Minister agree to report Progress until he has issued the Paper? Really, to ask us seriously, in view of this state of affairs, to go on with the discussions as if we had the figures is, I think, rather too much, and I ask the Minister frankly to agree to report Progress in order that we may have the paper before we go further.

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

No, I regret I cannot for a moment assent to that. At present, what we are considering is Clause 2, which deals with the creation of a class of persons from 18 to 21, and that will be considered also in Clause 4. The question of the 30-contributions rule and its effect will not come on until Clause 5. I am ready to meet the right hon. Gentleman in any way I possibly can, but in the circumstances, I trust he will not press to suspend the discussions now on the Clause that refers to the creation of the new class from 18 to 21.

Mr. ARTHUR GREENWOOD

We do not want these figures from the point of view of pure academic interest, but in reference to the Bill before the House. It is all very well for the Minister to say we are only discussing Clause 2, but we are really raising more than the question of the effect of the 30 contributions. We are raising the whole effect of this Bill on the position of insured persons. The right hon. Gentleman tells us he has a certain amount of information and that other information he has not got. If that be so, he has no business to bring in the Bill at all. We are told that he has not got the actual figures with regard to Poor Law relief and benefit, but he told us last night that he proposed to publish the actual figures regarding relief, from which I assume that he has in his possession some information that is not generally available to the House. Then there must be a good deal more information, because it will be within the recollection of the House that from time to time the Ministry has made special inquiries in regard to relief to unemployed persons. We were told last night that the Blanesburgh Committee had their own information, but because the Government was accepting the Report very largely they decided they must make their own inquiries. The right hon. Gentleman used these words last night: When it was a question of the Government adopting the Report, we wished to see what information we could get. Then he went on to say that they have had another inquiry this year in order to obtain information on a number of points of different kinds, quite apart from anything of this kind." [OFFICIAL REPORT, 21st November, 1927; cols. 1528–9, Vol. 210.] These words are a little obscure, but I take them to mean that before the Gov- ernment committed itself to an Unemployment Insurance Bill they had, in addition to the information made available by the Blanesburgh Committee, made extensive inquiries of their own. Surely the House is entitled, before we begin to discuss the details of this Bill, to have this information on which the whole fabric has been built. The right hon. Gentleman thinks we are only referring to the 30 stamps rule. We are not. We are referring to far more than that. We want to know not merely the effect of the operation of the 30 contributions, but the effect of the transitional contributins, and we want some reasonable estimate as to the number of people who to-day are getting benefit who will not get benefit if this Bill is put on the Statute Book.

I submit that the request to suspend the proceedings until this information is available is perfectly reasonable. Not only has the right hon. Gentleman certain information, but he has sources of inspiration, which are not available to us. By some means or another unknown to us, he has arrived at an estimate of what unemployment there is going to be in 1929. If there is one thing that stood out more than another in his Second Reading speech it was his declaration that he had not the remotest idea of what unemployment there would be in 1929. The whole burden of his plaintive song was that we had to be very careful, because nobody knew what the state of affairs was going to be; and now, not-withstanding that serious statement on Second Reading, we are told that his figure of 30,000 is based on an estimate of unemployment in 1929. This is treating the Committee with contempt. Is this a serious estimate as to the effect of a Bill whose operations will affect 12,000,000 persons? The effect, we are told, will be to throw out of benefit no more than 30,000 people, and one of the factors in that calculation is an estimate of the position of unemployment in 1929. The right hon. Gentleman's own statement, read by my right hon. Friend, was sufficiently guarded to lead us, when we read it in cold print, to realise that this estimate is mere humbug, that there is nothing in it. His statement was: Subject to that and subject to the allowances and necessary hypotheses that we had to make. We have not even been told what were the necessary hypotheses; we do not know the basis from which he started. the figure we came to as the most precise estimate that could be made, in the circumstances,"— another vague phrase— of the number of people additional to those already disqualified who would, in April, 1229, be added, under the Bill, to the number of disqualified persons, was 30,000."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 21st November, 1927; col. 1529, Vol. 210.] I submit that would not pass a kindergarten let alone a Committee of this House. The Committee are placed in a serious position to-day in being called upon to deal with Clause after Clause affecting insured persons while not knowing what is going to be the net effect of the Bill. If hon. Members opposite would put themselves in our position they would see the reasonableness of the request we are making. I can imagine that if we were on the other side of the House we should not get away with it like this. It is passing the bounds of courtesy to suggest that we are to have a White Paper presented at some time. By admitting that he is prepared to submit a White Paper, the right hon. Gentleman has conceded our whole case, has virtually admitted that he is in the wrong. He has admitted that the Committee are entitled to these figures. There is only one purpose for which these figures are needed, and that is the discussion of this Bill, and I hope the right hon. Gentleman, having haltingly put out the hand of friendship by promising to publish the information, will agree to go a little further, will take the next logical step, and agree to the postponement of the Committee stage until we have all the available statistics before us. I must repeat that I think it is treating the Committee most unfairly to ask us to proceed with a permanent measure of unemployment insurance based on elaborate calculations which have been withheld from us here. Before we proceed further we ought to be in possession of the facts which are now in the possession of the Minister.

Sir A. STEEL-MAITLAND

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 235; Noes, 145.

Division No. 360.] AYES [5.20 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.- Colonel Fermoy, Lord Nicholson, Col. Rt. Hn. W. G.(Ptrsf'ld.)
Albery, Irving James Forestier-Walker, Sir L. Nierd, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert
Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W. Derby) Forrest, W. Nuttall, Ellis
Applin, Colonel R. V. K. Ganzoni, Sir John O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton)
Apsley, Lord Gates, Percy Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings)
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John Perkins, Colonel E. K.
Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. Goff, Sir Park Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome)
Astor, Maj. Hn. John J.(Kent,Dover) Gower, Sir Robert Philipson, Mabel
Astor, Viscountess Grace, John Pilcher, G.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) Pilditch, Sir Philip
Balniel, Lord Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. Preston, William
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Greaves-Lord, Sir Walter Radford, E. A.
Barnett, Major Sir Richard Greene, W. P. Crawford Raine, Sir Walter
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John Ramsden, E.
Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.) Grotrian. H. Brent Remnant, Sir James
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Gunston, Captain D. W. Rhys, Hon. C. A. U.
Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish- Hacking, Captain Douglas H. Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y)
Berry, Sir George Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) Roberts, E. H. G. (Flint)
Bethel, A. Hammersley, S. S. Roberts, Sir Samuel (Hereford)
Betterton, Henry B. Hanbury, C. Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs., Stretford)
Boothby. R. J. G. Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A.
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth)
Bowyer, Captain G. E. W. Harrison, G. J. C. Salmon, Major I.
Boyd-Carpenter, Major Sir A. B. Hartington, Marquess of Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Braithwaite, Major A. N. Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington) Sandeman, N .Stewart
Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) Sanderson, Sir Frank
Briggs, J. Harold Hawke, John Anthony Sandon, Lord
Brittain, Sir Harry Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D.
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Henderson, Lt.-Col. Sir V. L. (Bootle) Savery, S. S.
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. Heneage, Lieut.-Col. Arthur P. Shaw, Lt.- Col. A. D. McI.(Renfrew, W.)
Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'I'd., Hexham) Henn, Sir Sydney Shepperson, E. W. H.
Buchan, John Hills. Major John Waller Smith-Carington, Neville W.
Buckingham, Sir H. Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. Smithers, Waldron
Bullock, Captain M. Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Burman, J. B. Holt, Captain H. P. Spender-Clay, Colonel H.
Burton, Colonel H. W. Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) Sprot, Sir Alexander
Butt, Sir Alfred Hopkins, J. W. W. Stanley, Lieut.-Colonel Rt. Hon. G. F
Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. Stanley, Lord (Fylde)
Caine, Gordon Hall Hudson, Capt A. U. M.(Hackney, N.) Steel, Major Samuel Strang
Campbell, E. T. Hume, Sir G H. Storry-Deans, R.
Cautley, Sir Henry S. Hurd, Percy A. Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H.
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) Iliffe, Sir Edward M. Streatfeild, Captain S. R.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) Jephcott, A. R. Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C
Chapman, Sir S. Kidd, J. (Linlithgow) Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Charteris, Brigadier-General J. Kindersley, Major Guy M. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser
Churchman, Sir Arthur C. King, Commodore Henry Douglas Tasker, R. Inigo
Clayton, G. C. Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement Templeton W. P
Cobb, Sir Cyril Knox, Sir Alfred Thom, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton)
Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. Lamb, J. Q. Thompson, Luke (Sunderland)
Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir George Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R. Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South)
Cohen, Major J. Brunel Lister, Cunliffe, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell-
Colfox, Major Wm. Philip Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Cooper, A. Duff Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (Handsw'th) Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Cope, Major William Loder, J. de V. Turton, Sir Edmund Russborough
Couper, J. B. Looker. Herbert William Waddington, R.
Craig, Sir Ernest (Chester, Crewe) Lucas-Tooth. Sir Hugh Vere Wallace, Captain D. E.
Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H Luce, Maj.-Gen. Sir Richard Harman Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L.(Kingston-on-Hull)
Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) Lumley, L. R. Warner, Brigadier-General W. W.
Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen Warrender, Sir Victor
Crookshank. Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro) McLean, Major A. Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
Curzon, Captain Viscount Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm Watts, Dr. T.
Dalkelth, Earl of Macquisten, F. A. Wells, S. R.
Davidson, J.(Hertf'd. Hemei Hempst'd) MacRobert, Alexander M. White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dalrymple-
Davies, Maj. Geo. F.(Somerset, Yeovil) Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel- Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester) Makins, Brigadier-General E. Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay)
Davies, Dr. Vernon Malone, Major P. B. Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)
Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn Wilson, Sir Murrough (Yorks, Richm'd)
Dean, Arthur Wellesley Margesson, Captain D. Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield)
Drewe, C. Mason, Lieut.-Col. Glyn K. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Duckworth, John Meyer, Sir Frank Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Eden, Captain Anthony Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) Womersley, W. J.
Edmondson, Major A. J. Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater)
Elliot, Major Walter E. Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. Wood, E. (Chest'r, Stalyb'ge & Hyde)
Ellis, R. G. Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. R. C. (Ayr) Wood. Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.)
England, Colonel A. Moore, Sir Newton J. Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) Morrison, H. (Wilts, Sailsbury)
Everard, W. Lindsay Morrison-Bell, Sir Arther Clive TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Fairfax, Captain J. G. Murchison, Sir Kenneth Major Sir George Hennessy and Mr. Penny.
Falle, Sir Bertram G. Nelson, Sir Frank
Fanshawe, Captain G. D. Neville, Sir Reginald J.
NOES.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) Harris, Percy A. Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Hartshorn. Rt. Hon. Vernon Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') Hayday, Arthur Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness)
Ammon, Charles George Hayes, John Henry Sitch, Charles H
Attlee, Clement Richard Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Burnley) Slesser, Sir Henry H.
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) Hirst, G. H. Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)
Baker, Walter Hore-Belisha, Leslie Smith, Rennie (Penistone)
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) Snell, Harry
Barnes, A. Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip
Batey, Joseph Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) Spoor, Rt. Hon. Benjamin Charles
Beckett, John (Gateshead) John, William (Rhondda, West) Stamford, T. W.
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) Stephen, Campbell
Broad, F. A. Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) Stewart, J. (St. Rollox)
Bromley, J. Kelly, W. T. Strauss, E. A.
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Kennedy, T. Sullivan, Joseph
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) Lansbury, George Sutton, J. E.
Buchanan, G. Lawrence, Susan Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby)
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel Lawson, John James Thomson, Trevelyan (Middlesbro. W.)
Cape, Thomas Lee, F. Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.)
Charleton, H. C. Lindley. F. W. Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow)
Clowes, S. Livingstone, A. M. Thurtle, Ernest
Cluse, W. S. Lowth, T. Tinker, John Joseph
Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. Lunn, William Townend, A. E.
Compton, Joseph MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J.R.(Aberavon) Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P.
Connolly, M. Mackinder, W. Varley, Frank B.
Cove, W. G. MacNeill-Weir, L. Viant, S. P.
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) March. S. Wallhead, Richard C.
Dalton, Hugh Maxton, James Walsh, Rt. Hon. Stephen
Day, Colonel Harry Montague, Frederick Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Dennison, R. Morris, R. H. Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedweilty) Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah
Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) Murnin, H. Wellock, Wilfred
Fenby, T. D. Naylor, T. E. Welsh, J. C.
Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. Oliver, George Harold Westwood, J.
Gibbins, Joseph Owen, Major G. Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J.
Gillett, George M. Palin, John Henry Whiteley, W.
Gosling, Harry Paling, W. Wilkinson, Ellen C.
Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham)
Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) Ponsonby, Arthur Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly)
Greenall, T. Potts, John S. Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) Riley, Ben Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe)
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) Ritson, J. Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O.(W. Bromwich) Windsor, Walter
Groves, T. Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W. R., Elland) Wright, W.
Grundy, T. W. Rose, Frank H. Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) Saklatvala, Shapurji
Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Salter, Dr. Alfred TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) Scrymgeour, E. Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. T. Henderson.
Hardie, George D. Sexton, James
Harney, E. A. Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston)

Question put accordingly, "That the Chairman do report Progress and ask leave to sit again."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 147; Noes, 244.

Division No. 361.] AYES. [5.30 p m.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) Cove, W. G. Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland)
Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) Hardie, George D
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') Dalton, Hugh Harney, E. A.
Ammon, Charles George Day, Colonel Harry Harris, Percy A.
Attlee, Clement Richard Dennison, R. Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) Dunnico, H. Hayday, Arthur
Baker, Walter Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedweilty) Hayes, John Henry
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Burnley)
Barnes, A. Fenby, T. D. Hirst, G. H.
Batey, Joseph Gardner, J. P. Hore-Belisha, Leslie
Beckett, John (Gateshead) Garro-Jones. Captain G. M. Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield)
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Gibbins, Joseph Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose)
Broad. F. A. Gillett, George M. Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath)
Bromley, J. Gosling, Harry John, William (Rhondda, West)
Brown, Ernest (Leith) Graham, D M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Johnston, Thomas (Dundee)
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) Graham. Rt. Hon. Wm. (Eden., Cent.) Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth)
Buchanan, G. Greenall, T. Kelly, W. T.
Cape. Thomas Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) Kennedy, T.
Charleton, H. C. Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) Lansbury, George
Clowes, S. Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) Lawrence, Susan
Cluse, W. S. Groves, T. Lawson, John James
Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. Grundy, T. W. Lee, F.
Compton, Joseph Hall, F. (York, W.R., Normanton) Lindley, F. W.
Connolly, M. Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) Livingstone, A. M.
Lowth, T. Salter, Dr. Alfred Townend, A. E.
Lunn, William Scrymgeour, E. Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P.
MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R.(Aberavon) Sexton, James Varley, Frank B.
Mackinder, W. Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) Viant, S. P.
MacLaren, Andrew Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) Wallhead, Richard C.
MacNeill-Weir, L. Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John Walsh, Rt. Hon. Stephen
March, S. Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness) Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline)
Maxton James Sitch, Charles H. Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Montague, Frederick Slesser, Sir Henry H. Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah
Morris, R. H. Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) Weilock, Wilfred
Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Smith, Rennie (Penistone) Welsh, J. C.
Murnin, H. Snell, Harry Westwood, J.
Naylor, T. E. Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J.
Oliver, George Harold Spoor, Rt. Hon. Benjamin Charles Whiteley, W.
Owen, Major G. Stamford, T. W. Wilkinson, Ellen C.
Palin, John Henry Stephen, Campbell Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham)
Paling, W. Stewart, J. (St. Rollox) Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly)
Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. Strauss. E. A. Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Ponsonby, Arthur Sullivan, J. Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe)
Potts, John S. Sutton, J. E. Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow)
Riley, Ben Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby) Windsor, Walter
Ritson, J. Thomson, Trevelyan (Middlesbro.,W.) Wright, W.
Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O.(W.Bromwich) Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Robinson, W. C. (Yorks,W.R.,Elland) Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow)
Rose, Frank H. Thurtle, Ernest TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Saklatvala, Shapurji Tinker, John Joseph Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. T. Henderson.
NOES.
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel Colfox, Major Wm. Philip Hartington, Marquess of
Albery, Irving James Cooper, A. Duff Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington)
Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W. Derby) Cope, Major William Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes)
Applin, Colonel R. V. K. Couper, J. B. Hawke, John Anthony
Apsley, Lord Craig, Sir Ernest (Chester, Crewe) Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M.
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. Henderson, Lt.-Col. Sir V. L. (Bootle)
Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) Heneage, Lieut.-Col. Arthur P.
Astor, Maj. Hn. John J. (Kent, Dover) Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) Henn, Sir Sydney H.
Astor, Viscountess Crookshank, Cpt. H.(Lindsey, Gainsbro) Hills, Major John Waller
Atholl, Duchess of Curzon, Captain Viscount Hoare. Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Dalkeith. Earl of Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard
Balniel, Lord Davidson, J.(Hertf'd, Hemel Hempst'd) Holt, Captain H. P.
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.)
Barnett, Major Sir Richard Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) Hopkins, J. W. W.
Barnston, Major Sir Harry Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester) Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K.
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Davies, Dr. Vernon Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.)
Beckett, Sir Gervase(Leeds, N.) Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) Hume, Sir G. H.
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Dean, Arthur Wellesley Hunter-Weston, Lt.-Gen. Sir Aylmer
Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish- Crewe, C. Hurd, Percy A.
Berry, Sir George Duckworth, John Iliffe, Sir Edward M.
Bethel, A. Eden, Captain Anthony Jephcott A. R.
Betterton, Henry B. Edmondson, Major A. J. Kidd, J. (Linlithgow)
Boothby, R. J. G. Elliot, Major Walter E. Kindersley, Major G. M.
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft Ellis, R. G. King, Commodore Henry Douglas
Boyd-Carpenter, Major Sir A. B. England, Colonel A. Klnloch-Cooke, Sir Clement
Braithwaite, Major A. N. Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) Knox, Sir Alfred
Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive Everard, W. Lindsay Lamb, J. Q
Briggs, J. Harold Fairfax, Captain J. G. Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R.
Brittain, Sir Harry Faile, Sir Bertram G. Lister, Cunliffe, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Fanshawe, Captain G. D. Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green)
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. Fermoy, Lord Locker-Lampson, Com. O.(Handsw'th)
Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'I'd., Hexham) Forestier-Walker, Sir L. Loder, J. de V.
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) Forrest, W Looker, Herbert William
Buchan, John Ganzoni, Sir John Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere
Buckingham, Sir H. Gates. Percy Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman
Bullock, Captain M. Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John Lumley, L. R.
Burman, J. B. Goff, Sir Park MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen
Burton, Colonel H. W. Gower, Sir Robert McLean, Major A.
Butt, Sir Alfred Grace, John Macmillan, Captain H.
Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm
Caine, Gordon Hall Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. Macqulsten, F. A.
Campbell, E. T. Greaves-Lord, Sir Walter MacRobert, Alexander M.
Cautley, Sir Henry S. Greene, W. P. Crawford Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel-
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) Gretton, Colonel Rt. Hon. John Makins, Brigadier-General E.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) Grotrian, H. Brent Malone, Major P. B.
Chapman, Sir S. Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. F.E.(Bristol, N.) Manniegham-Buller, Sir Mervyn
Charteris, Brinadier-General J. Gunston, Captain D. W. Margesson, Captain D.
Chilcott, Sir Warden Hacking, Captain Douglas H. Mason, Lieut.-Col. Glyn K.
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) Meyer. Sir Frank
Churchman. Sir Arthur C. Hammersley, S. S. Mitchell, S. (Lanark. Lanark)
Clayton, G. C. Hanbury, C. Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden)
Cobb, Sir Cyril Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Monsell, Eyres. Com. Rt. Hon. B. M.
Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) Moore. Lieut.-Col. T. C. R. (Ayr)
Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir George Harrison, G. J. C. Moore, Sir Newton J.
Morrison, H. (Wilts, Salisbury) Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive Sandeman, N. Stewart Turton, Sir Edmund Russborough
Murchison, Sir Kenneth Sanderson, Sir Frank Waddington, R.
Nelson, Sir Frank Sandon, Lord Wallace, Captain D. E.
Neville, Sir Reginald J. Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L.(Kinaston-on-Hall)
Nichoison, Col. Rt. Hn.W.G. (Ptrsf'ld.) Savery, S. S. Warner, Brigadier-General W. W.
Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert Shaw, Lt.-Col. A. D. McI. (Renfrew, W) Warrender, Sir Victor
Nuttall. Ellis Shepperson, E. W. Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) Smith-Carington, Neville W. Watts, Dr. T.
Penny, Frederick George Smithers, Waldron Wells, S. R.
Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) White, Lieut.-Col, Sir G. Dalrymple-
Perkins, Colonel E. K. Spender-Clay, Colonel H. Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome) Sprot, Sir Alexander Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay)
Philipson, Mabel Stanley, Lieut.-Colonel Rt. Hon. G. F. Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)
Pilcher, G. Stanley, Lord (Fylde) Wilson, Sir Murrough (Yorks, Richm'd)
Pilditch, Sir Philip Steel, Major Samuel Strang Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield)
Preston, William Storry-Deans, R. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Radford, E. A. Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H. Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Raine, Sir Walter Streatfeild, Captain S. R. Withers, John James
Ramsden, E. Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C. Womersley, W. J.
Remnant, Sir James Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray ana Nairn) Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater)
Rhys, Hon. C. A. U. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser Wood, E.(Chest'r, Stalyb'dge & Hyde)
Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) Tasker, R. Inigo. Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich W.)
Roberts, E. H. G. (Flint) Templeton, W. P. Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Roberts, Sir Samuel (Hereford) Thom, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton)
Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs., Stretford) Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) Major Sir George Hennessy and Mr. Penny.
Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell-
Saimon, Major I. Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
    cc1663-760
  1. CLAUSE 2.—(Rates of contributions in case of young men and young women.) 41,176 words, 6 divisions
    2. cc1761-2
  2. GAS REGULATION ACT, 1920. 92 words