§ Colonel DAYI beg to move, in page 10, line 6, to leave out Sub-section (3).
7.0 p.m.
I think it is understood, at any rate by all Members on this side of the House, that this Sub-section is quite unnecessary, and, perhaps, without taking up time in discussion, the President of the Board of Trade will let us know whether he agrees with that.
§ Mr. WALLHEADI beg to second the Amendment.
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERThis is a most necessary Sub-section, and I should have thought it would have commanded general assent. The House has already assented to the proposition that films acquired by a renter must be acquired by him bona fide for the purpose of renting, and that he should not acquire what are vulgarly described as "dud" films in order to get them into his portfolio but without any intention of using them. That would not be a genuine compliance with the quota. What is the fair test to apply as to whether films have been acquired by the renter in the bona fide course of his business as a renter? 918 Surely, the best test to apply is to see whether he has kept those films on his shelf or whether he has made a genuine attempt to get them shown, and we get the evidence of that from the contracts into which he has entered.
§ Mr. A. V. ALEXANDERI am afraid that the reply of the President of the Board of Trade does not convince us at all. It has been pointed out again and again, in the discussions on this Clause, that it is quite possible that the renter might be actually unable to sell—or to rent, as the President puts it—all the films he has acquired as part of his quota, and this Sub-section will be used against him as a penalty, not for keeping them on his shelf, as the President suggests, but for really being unable to dispose of some of the British films he has taken in the hope that he will be able to complete his quota from those purchases. That seems to us to be very unfair, and that is the reason why we ask for the omission of this Sub-section. This point is one of considerable substance. The President of the Board of Trade has spoken to-day about the quality of British films produced this year. Already some little information has been given to me about some of them. I do not want to specify them by name, because I do not want to damage any particular interest; I do not think that that would be fair; but I have very adverse reports upon some of them. It may be that certain renters have acquired exclusive quota rights in the best films, while other renters, who know that they have to comply with a certain quota, have to do with other films, and at the end find that they are not able to dispose of them. Then this Subsection will be used in order to punish a man, not for trying to evade the Act, but for being unable to sell British films which he has purchased with a view to being able to rent them.
Captain A. EVANSI think the hon. Member for Hillsborough (Mr. A. V. Alexander) has overlooked the fact that in some cases renters are exhibitors themselves. For instance, we have big theatres in London which rent films direct from the manufacturers, and it may pay those exhibitors, although for the purposes of this Bill they may be known as renters, to acquire second-rate British films and put them on the shelf, in order that some American or other feature film 919 may be put on which they may think may benefit them at the box office.
§ Mr. MONTAGUESurely, the purpose of this Bill is the protection of the British film industry, and, if the films are sold to the renter and are put on the shelf because they cannot be or are not intended to be re-sold, the purpose has been achieved. I take it that the President of the Board of Trade is not going to suggest that the House of Commons, in passing a Measure of this kind, is really out to force people to see British films or any other particular kind of films. There is no æsthetic purpose; the Measure is the commercial one of encouraging the production of British films; and, surely, the encouragement is there if they are purchased, even if they are not exhibited. It seems to me, therefore, that the proposal to delete this Sub-section is quite reasonable.
§ Colonel WEDGWOODIt is a good deal more than reasonable. It seems to me that it is the only thing that can possibly save the Government's face, and that is more than reasonable. You are asking the renter to prove that he has sold the goods. You are making the renter take 20 per cent., and a good deal more, because we know that a British film cannot count twice; and then you
§ are saying to him, "You must prove that you have had this shown," although it is already provided in the Bill that the exhibitor is only to have 20 per cent. How can the exhibitors, if they stick to 20 per cent., possibly show all that the renter has provided? It is a physical impossibility. Of course, it goes into the Bill, because, I suppose, somebody wanted it, and somebody said: "You must not be mercenary. We are not a materialist party; we are an Imperial party, and think that way. It is not a question merely of producing British films; you have to make this Philistine British population look at the things, too." You are not satisfied with the renter buying them; he has to prove that they were shown, and not only shown, but shown at the right hours, when the house is full and people cannot get away from them. Of course, the Government put that in the Bill, and it is this Subsection that makes it valuable. They will not take it out; they insist that the renter shall not only prove that he has bought the film, but has sold it for honest money and made people look at it.
§ Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 256: Noes, 135.
923Division No. 337.] | AYES. | [7.9 p.m. |
Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Buchan, John | Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester) |
Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. | Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Davies, Dr. Vernon |
Ainsworth, Major Charles | Bullock, Captain M. | Dawson, Sir Phillip |
Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) | Burton, Colonel H. W. | Dean, Arthur Wellesley |
Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W. Derby) | Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Drewe, C. |
Applin, Col. R. V. K. | Caine, Gordon Hall | Eden, Captain Anthony |
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Campbell, E. T. | Edmondson, Major A. J. |
Astbury, Lieut-Commander F. W. | Cassels, J. D. | Elliot, Major Walter E. |
Atholl, Duchess of | Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) | Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s-M.) |
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Cayzer, Ma]. Sir Herbt. R.(Prtsmth. S.) | Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith |
Banks, Reginald Mitchell | Cazaiet, Captain Victor A. | Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South) |
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. | Cecil, Rt. Hon Sir Evelyn (Aston) | Everard, W. Lindsay |
Barnett, Major Sir Richard | Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Fairfax, Captain J. G. |
Barnston, Major Sir Harry | Chapman, Sir S. | Falle, Sir Bertram G. |
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. | Christie, J. A. | Fanshawe, Captain G. D. |
Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.) | Clayton, G. C. | Fermoy, Lord |
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. | Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. | Fielden, E. B. |
Bennett, A. J. | Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir George | Forestier-Walker, Sir L. |
Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish- | Cohen, Major J. Brunei | Foster, Sir Harry S. |
Berry, Sir George | Cooper, A. Duff | Foxcroft, Captain C. T. |
Bethel, A. | Cope, Major William | Fraser, Captain Ian |
Betterton, Henry B. | Couper, J. B. | Ganzoni, Sir John |
Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) | Courthope, Colonel Sir G. L. | Gates, Percy |
Boothby, R. J. G. | Craig, Sir Ernest (Chester, Crewe) | Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham |
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John |
Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. | Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) | Goff, Sir Park |
Braithwaite, Major A. N. | Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) | Gower, Sir Robert |
Briggs, J. Harold | Crookshank, Cpt. H.(Lindsey, Gainsbro) | Grace, John |
Brittain, Sir Harry | Cunilffe, Sir Herbert | Graham, Fergus (Cumberland, N.) |
Brocklebank, C. E. R. | Curzon, Captain Viscount | Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. |
Broun-Lindsay, Major H. | Dalkeith, Earl ol | Greene, W. P. Crawford |
Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) | Davidson, J.(Hertf'd, Hemel Hempst'd) | Grotrian, H. Brent. |
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H.C.(Berks, Newb'y) | Davies, Maj. Geo. F.(Somerset, Yeovil) | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. |
Gunston, Captain D. W. | McLean, Major A. | Shepperson, E. W. |
Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Macmillan, Captain H. | Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down) |
Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) | Mac Robert, Alexander M. | Skelton, A. N. |
Hammersley, S. S. | Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel- | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn | Smith-Carington, Neville W. |
Harland, A. | Marriott, Sir J. A. R. | Smithers, Waldron |
Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) | Meller, R. J. | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
Harrison, G. J. C. | Merriman, F. B. | Spender-Clay, Colonel H. |
Haslam, Henry C. | Milne, J. S. Wardlaw- | Sprot, Sir Alexander |
Hawke, John Anthony | Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) | Stanley, Lieut.-Colonel Rt. Hon. G. F. |
Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. | Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) | Stanley, Lord (Fylde) |
Henderson, Lt.-Col. Sir V. L. (Bootle) | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. | Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) |
Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. | Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) | Storry-Deans, R. |
Henn, Sir Sydney H. | Moore, Sir Newton J. | Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H. |
Hennessy, Major Sir G. R. J. | Nail, Colonel Sir Joseph | Streatfeild, Captain S. R. |
Hills, Major John Waller | Nelson, Sir Frank | Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C. |
Hilton, Cecil | Neville, Sir Reginald J. | Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) |
Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Styles, Captain H. Walter |
Hogg, Rt. Hon. Sir D.(St. Marylebone) | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser |
Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) | Nicholson, O. (Westminster) | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid |
Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar) | Nuttall, Ellis | Tasker, R. Inigo. |
Hopkins, J. W. W. | O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) | Templeton, W. P. |
Howard-Bury, Colonel C. K. | Oman, Sir Charles William C. | Thorn, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton) |
Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. William | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) |
Hudson, R. S. (Cumberl'nd, Whiteh'n) | Penny, Frederick George | Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell- |
Hume, Sir G. H. | Perkins, Colonel E. K. | Tinne, J. A. |
Hunter-Weston, Lt.-Gen. Sir Aylmer | Perring, Sir William George | Titchfield, Major the Marquess of |
Huntingfield, Lord | Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome) | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
Ilifte, Sir Edward M. | Pilcher, G. | Turton, Sir Edmund Russborough |
Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. | Pllditch, Sir Philip | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P. |
Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) | Price, Major C. W. M. | Waddington, R. |
James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert | Radford, E. A. | Ward, Lt.-Col. A.L.(Kingston-on-Hull) |
Jephcott, A. R. | Raine, Sir Walter | Warner, Brigadier-General W. W. |
Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington) | Ramsden, E. | Warrender, Sir Victor |
Kennedy, A. R. (Preston) | Rawson, Sir Cooper | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
Kidd, J. (Linlithgow) | Held, D. D. (County Down) | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) |
King, Commodore Henry Douglas | Remer, J. R. | Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle) |
Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Remnant, Sir James | Watts, Dr. T. |
Knox, Sir Alfred | Rhys, Hon. C. A. U. | Wells, S. R. |
Lamb, J. Q. | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sar'y, Ch'ts'y) | White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dalrymple |
Lane Fox, col. Rt. Hon. George R. | Ropner, Major L. | Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern) |
Lister, Cunilffe, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Ruggles-Brise, Lieut.-Colonel E. A. | Wilson, Sir C. H. (Leeds, Central) |
Little, Dr. E. Graham | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) | Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield) |
Loder, J. de V. | Rye, F. G. | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
Long, Major Eric | Salmon, Major I. | Withers, John James |
Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) | Wolmer. Viscount |
Luce, Maj.-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) | Womersley, W. J. |
Lumley, L. R. | Sandeman, N. Stewart | Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.) |
Lynn, Sir R. J. | Sanderson, Sir Frank | Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T. |
MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen | Sandon, Lord | |
Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) | Savery, S. S. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
MacDonald, R. (Glasgow, Cathcart) | Scott, Rt. Hon. Sir Leslie | Mr. F. C. Thomson and Captain |
McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus | Shaw, R. G. (Yorks, W. R., Sowerby) | Margesson. |
Maclntyre, I. | Sheffield, Sir Berkeley | |
NOES. | ||
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Davies, Ellis (Denbigh, Denbigh) | Hayes, John Henry |
Adamson, W. M. (Staff, Cannock) | Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Burnley) |
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') | Day, Colonel Harry | Hirst, G. H. |
Ammon, Charles George | Dennison, R. | Hore-Belisha, Leslie |
Attlee, Clement Richard | Duncan. C. | Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) |
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Dunnico, H. | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) |
Baker, Walter | Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | John, William (Rhondda, West) |
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) | England, Colonel A. | Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) |
Bondfield, Margaret | Fenby, T. D. | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) |
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Forrest, W. | Kelly, W. T. |
Broad, F. A. | Gardner, J. P. | Kennedy, T. |
Bromfield, William | Gibbins, Joseph | Kirkwood, D. |
Bromley, J. | Gillett, George M. | Lawrence, Susan |
Brown, Ernest (Leith) | Gosling, Harry | Lawson, John James |
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Lee, F. |
Buchanan, G. | Greenall, T. | Lindley, F. W. |
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel | Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Livingstone, A. M |
Cape, Thomas | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Lowth, T. |
Charleton, H. C. | Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | Lunn, William |
Clowes, S. | Groves, T. | Mackinder, W. |
Cluse, W. S. | Grundy, T. W. | Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) |
Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. | Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | MacNeill-Weir, L. |
Compton, Joseph | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | March, S. |
Connolly, M. | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) | Maxton, James |
Cove, W. G. | Hardle, George D. | Montague, Frederick |
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) |
Dalton, Hugh | Hayday, Arthur | Murnin, H. |
Oliver, George Harold | Snell, Harry | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D.(Rhondda) |
Owen, Major G. | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip | Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney |
Palln, John Henry | Spoor, Rt. Hon. Benjamin Charles | Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. Josiah |
Paling, W. | Stamford, T. W. | Wellock, Wilfred |
Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Stephen, Campbell | Welsh, J. C. |
Potts, John S. | Stewart, J. (St. Rollox) | Westwood, J. |
Ritson, J. | Strauss, E. A. | Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J. |
Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Bromwich) | Sullivan, J. | Wiggins, William Martin |
Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W.R., Elland) | Sutton, J. E. | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
Scrymgeour, E. | Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby) | Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham) |
Scurr, John | Thomson, Treveiyan (Middlesbro. W.) | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) | Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
Shepherd, Arthur Lewis | Thurtle, Ernest | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John | Tinker, John Joseph | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness) | Townend, A. E. | Wright, W. |
Sitch, Charles H. | Varley, Frank B. | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
Smillie, Robert | Viant, S. P. | |
Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) | Wallhead, Richard C. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES. — |
Smith, Rennle (Penistone) | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline) | Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. |
Whiteley. |