§ Mr. HARRISI beg to move, in pave 11, to leave out lines 5 to 12, inclusive.
This is a matter of great importance. Here is a definition of His Majesty's Dominions—
§ Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKERI might say I think it would be for the convenience of the House that this Amendment and the next should be discussed together. We can have a Division separately on each, but they might be discussed together.
§ Mr. HARRISI was suggesting to the House that this might lead to serious international complications, because you cannot hope that this Bill will be merely for local consumption. It must be widely read as it has an effect, not only on our industries but on every country throughout the world, and we can assume that this Bill will be carefully serutinised and examined by the Foreign Offices, Consuls and traders in every country and State. I should like to call the attention of the House to the very novel definition of His Majesty's Dominions in the Bill. It says
His Majesty's Dominions' includes territories under His Majesty's protection, and such, if any, of the territories which are mandated to us on behalf of the League of Nations.Of course, the first part of this definition is not open to the same serious objection, but I can understand such a State as Zanzibar, where the Sultan flies his own flag at Mombasa, very touch objecting to being regarded as part of His Majesty's Dominions. But when we come to the suggestion that the mandated territories are part of Iris Majesty's Dominions then we are trespassing on dangerous grounds. It goes against the spirit of the League of Nations. We hold these territories on trust, and the whole idea is that these States, at any rate while they are under our mandatory control should—[HON. MEMBERS: "Divide!"] I can understand hon. Members opposite interrupting, as they have great contempt for the League of Nations, but I am certainly not going to be shouted down. It was laid down in the Treaty of Versailles and in all regulations of the League of Nations that the mandated territories were not to be regarded as parts of the country which was responsible for their administration. They were to be administered on behalf of the League of Nations and the League was to retain control. There is, of course a Committee responsible direct to the League for the welfare and administration of these mandated territories.347 The various countries which have taken over these trusts and responsibilities report to this Mandates Committee, and from time to time the administration is scrutinised, reported on and discussed at the League meetings at Geneva, both in the Council and in the general meetings. I say that to introduce in a Bill of this character a new principle of this kind requires a good deal of explanation and justification. I do not think that any of the other countries, either France or any other State, who have taken over these responsibilities, have followed a course of this kind or have even suggested that these territories are part of their Empire or country. We have been assured from time to time that Iraq is quite an independent State and has its own King and Constitution and makes its own laws, and that we are merely acting as advisers on their policy and assisting them in building up a State which is completely independent. Under this definition to which I have referred Iraq is to be regarded as part of His Majesty's Dominions. I say that these words are objectionable and likely to give offence, and to do our reputation harm and injure our relations with the mandated territories, and, above all, that they seem to indicate that this country is going against the whole spirit of the League of Nations and the Treaty of Versailles, and by a side wind is going to take an opportunity to try and regard these territories as part of His Majesty's Dominions. For these reasons I hope these words will be omitted, and if, for purposes of business, some such words are required, I hope they will be in a different form.
§ Sir ROBERT HAMILTONI beg to second the Amendment.
Sir P. OUNLIFFE-LISTERThe hon. Member for South-West Bethnal Green (Mr. Harris) has told us that a similar
§ procedure to that of which he speaks has not been carried out in other Acts of Parliament, but it has been carried out in matters of finance ever since 1919. Instead of repeating the same words in every line of the Bill, we have a Definition Clause, and "His Majesty's Dominions" is in the Definition Clause. Power is taken by Order in Council to give to mandated territories the same benefits which are extended to the Dominions and Colonies of the British Empire. That, surely, is a reasonable thing to do. The hon. Gentleman need not he afraid that. this runs counter to the Treaty of Versailles or to the Covenant of the League of Nations, because, ever since 1619—and it is provided in the Finance Act of that year—there has been exactly a parallel provision in the matter of finance to that which we are now proposing. The Finance Act, 1919, established Imperial Preference, and it provided that there should be power by Order in Council to extend that to the mandated territories.
§ Mr. HARRISIs it not quite a different thing, to say that preference should be given to the mandated territories from saying that His Majesty's Dominions are included?
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERThe words "His Majesty's Dominions" are used constantly in these Bills, and it is really fantastic to suggest to the House—[HON. MEMBERS "Withdraw!"]—I will substitute the word unreasonable," and say it is unreasonable for the hon. Member to suggest that, for convenience of definition, we cannot adopt this very convenient form of words.
§ Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out, to the word 'and' in line 6 stand part of the Bill."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 232; Noes, 97.
351| Division No. 493.] | AYES. | [10.9 p.m. |
| Acland Troyte, Lieut. Colonel | Balniel, Lord | Bowyer, Captain G. E. W |
| Albery, Irving James | Barclay-Harvey, C. M. | Braithwaite. A. N. |
| Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) | Barnett, Major Sir Richard | Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Cilve |
| Applin, Colonel R, V. K. | Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.) | Briggs, J. Harold |
| Apsley. Lord | Bethel, A. | Briscoe, Richard George |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Betterton, Henry B. | Brittain, Sir Harry |
| Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. | Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Breun-Lindsay, Major H. |
| Astor, Viscountess | Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) | Brown, Brig.Gen.H.C(Berks,Newb'y) |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Boothby, R. J. G. | Buckingham. Sir H. |
| Baldwin, R1. Hon. Stanley | Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Bullock, Captain M. |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vanelttart | Burman, J. B. |
| Burney, Lieut.-Com. Charles D. | Hartington, Marquess of | Price, Major C. W. M. |
| Burton, Colonel H. W. | Harvey, G (Lambeth, Kennington) | Radford, E. A. |
| Butler, Sir Geoffrey | Harvey. Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) | Raine. W. |
| Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Haslam, Henry C. | Rawson, Sir Cooper |
| Campbell, E. T. | Hawke, John Anthony | Rees, Sir Beddoc |
| Cassels, J. D. | Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) | Reid. Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington) |
| Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R. (Prtsmth.S.) | Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle) | Reid, D. D. (County Down) |
| Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Hennessy, Major J. R. G. | Remer, J. R. |
| Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Herbert, Dennis (Hertlord, Watford) | Remnant, Sir James |
| Chapman, Sir S. | Herbert.S.(York, N.R. Scar. & Wh'b) | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) |
| Charteris. Brigadier-General J. | Hills, Maior John Waller | Ropner, Major L. |
| Chilcott, Sir Warden | Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. | Ruggles-Brise, Major E. A. |
| Christie, J. A. | Hogg, Rt. Hon. Sir D.(St.Marylebone) | Russell. Alexander West (Tynemouth) |
| Churchman, Sir Arthur C. | Holt, Captain H. P. | Rye, F. G. |
| Clarry, Reginald George | Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) | Samuel. A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. | Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar) | Sandeman, A. Stewart |
| Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir G. K. | Hudson. Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney.N.) | Sandon, Lord |
| Cooe. Major William | Hudson, R. S. (Cumberland, Whiteh'n) | Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. |
| Courthope. Lieut.-Col. Sir Grorge L. | Illffe. Sir Edward M | Savery, S. S. |
| Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islingtn., N.) | Jackson. Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) | Shaw, Lt.-Col. A. D. Mcl.(Renfrew,W) |
| Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | Jephcott, A. R. | Sheffield. Sir Berkeley |
| Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) | Kidd. J. (Linlithgow) | Shepperson. E. W. |
| Crookshank. Col. C. de W. (Berwick) | King, Captain Henry Douglas | Skelton, A. N. |
| Citron, Captain Viscount | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Smith. R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Dalkeith. Earl of | Lister, Cunliffe, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Smithers. Waldron |
| Dalziel, Sir Davison | Little. Dr. E. Graham | Spender-Clay, Colonel H. |
| Davies, Mai. Geo. F. (Somerset,Yeovil) | Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) | Sprot, Sir Alexander |
| Davies, Dr. Vernon | Loder, J. da V. | Stanley. Col. Hon. G. F. (Will'sden, E.) |
| Dawson, Sir Philip | Lord, Walter Greaves. | Stanley, Lord (Fylde) |
| Dean, Arthur Wellesley | Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere | Stanley. Hon O. F. G. (Westm'eland |
| Drewe, C. | Luce. Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Storry-Deans, R. |
| Duckworth, John | MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen | Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H. |
| Eden, Captain Anthony | Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) | Streatleild, Captain S. R. |
| Edmonson, Major A. J. | Macdonald, R. (Glasgow, Cathcart) | Stuart. Crichton-. Lord C |
| Elliot, Major Walter E. | McLean, Major A. | Sueter. Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser |
| Ellis, R. G. | Macmillan, Captain H. | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid |
| Elveden, Viscount | Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm | Templeton, W. P. |
| England. Colonel A. | McNeill, Rt. Hon. Ronald John | Thorn, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton) |
| Erskine. Lord (Somerset,Weston-s.-M.) | MacRobert, Alexander M. | Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell |
| Everard, W. Lindsay | Maitland. Sir Arthur D. steel. | Tinne, J. A. |
| Falle, Sir Bertram G. | Matone, Major P. B. | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Fielden. E. B. | Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P. |
| Ford. Sir P. J. | Mason, Lieut.-Col. Glyn K. | Waddington, R. |
| Forestier-Walker, Sir L. | Meller, R. J. | Wallace, Captain D. E. |
| Forrest, W. | Merriman, F. B. | Warner, Brigadier-General W. W. |
| Foster, Sir Harry S. | Meyer, Sir Frank | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Foxcroft, Captain C. T. | Mitchell. S. (Lanark, Lanark) | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) |
| Freee, Sir Walter de | Mitchell. W. Foot (Saffron Walden) | Watson. Rt. Hon. w. (Carlisle) |
| Gadie, Lieut.-Col. Anthony | Monsell. Eyres. Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. | Watts, Or. T. |
| Galbraith. J. F. W. | Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr.) | Wells. S. R. |
| Ganzoni, Sir John | Moore, Sir Newton J. | Wheler, Major Sir Granville C. H. |
| Gates, Percy | Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. | White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dairymple |
| Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton | Morrison, H. (Wilts, Salisbury) | Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern) |
| Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Murchlson, C. K. | Williams. Com. C. (Devon. Torquay) |
| Goff, Sir Park | Neville, R. J. | Windsor-Cllve, Lieut.-Colonel Gsorpe |
| Gower, Sir Robert | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl |
| Grace, John | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) | Wise, Sir Fredrlc |
| Graham, Frederick F. (Cumb'ld., N.) | Nuttali, Ellis | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. | O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) | Wood, B. C. (Somerset. Bridgwater) |
| Greene. W. P. Crawford | Oman, Sir Charles William C. | wood, E. (Cnester, staly'b'ge & Hydo) |
| Grotrian, H. Brent | Penny, Frederick George | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Perkins, Colonel E. K | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. |
| Hall, Vice-Admiral Sir R. (Eastbourne) | Perring, Sir William George | Wragg. Herbert |
| Hammersley, S. S. | Peto. Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T. |
| Hanbury, C. | Pielou, O. P. | |
| Hannan, Patrick Joseph Henry | Power, Sir John Cecil | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Harrison, G. J. C. | Pownall. Lieut.-Colonel Sir Assheton | Mr. F. C. Thomson and Captain Margesson. |
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Cove, W. G. | Gosling, Harry |
| Ammon, Charles George | Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Crawfurd, H. E. | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) |
| Baker, Walter | Dalton, Hugh | Groves, T |
| Barnes, A. | Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Grundy, T. W. |
| Batey, Joseph | Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton | Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) |
| Bromfield, William | Day, Colonel Harry | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) |
| Bromley, J. | Dennison, R, | Hardie, George D. |
| Buchanan, G. | Dunnico, H. | Hayday, Arthur |
| Charleton, H. C. | Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Hayes, John Henry |
| Clowes, S. | Gardner, J. P. | Henderson, T. (Glasgow) |
| Cluse, W. S. | Gibbins, Joseph | Hirst, G. H. |
| Connolly, M. | Gillett, George M. | Hore-Belisha, Leslie |
| Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) | Palin, John Henry | Sullivan, Joseph |
| Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) | Paling, W. | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Ponsonby, Arthur | Thurtle, Ernest |
| Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Potts. John S. | Townend, A. E. |
| Jones, T. I, Mardy (Pontypridd) | Purcell, A. A. | Watts-Morgan. Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Kelly, W. T. | Richardson, R. 'Houghton-le-Spring) | Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney |
| Kennedy, T. | Riley, Ben | Westwood, J. |
| Lansbury, George | Ritson, J. | Whiteley. W. |
| Lawrence, Susan | Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W.R. Elland) | Wiggins, William Martin |
| Lee. F. | Scrymgeour, E. | Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham) |
| Lindley, F. W. | Scurr, John | Williams, David (Swansea, E) |
| Lowth, T. | Sexton, James | Williams. T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Lunn, William | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) | Wilson C H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| MacLaren, Andrew | Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness) | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) | Sitch. Charles H. | Windsor, Walter |
| March. S. | Smith, H. B. Lees. (Keighley) | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Maxton, James | Smith, Rennie (Penistone) | |
| Montague, Frederick | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Naylor, T. E. | Spoor, Rt. Hon. Benjamin Charles | Mr. Percy Harris and Sir Robert |
| Oliver, George Harold | Stamford. T. W. | Hamilton. |
| Owen, Major G. | Stephen. Campbell |
§ Mr. WEBBI beg to move, in page 11, line 6, to leave out from the word "protection" to the end of line 12.
I do not propose to do more than formally move this Amendment. It seems to me that it is quite improper to include in the term His Majesty's Dominions territories over which we have only a mandate. Under the Bill it would he quite in order to mark, say, Mesopotamia figs as Empire produce.
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERThis is precisely the same Amendment as that upon which the House has just divided, and the right hon. Gentleman will therefore acquit me of any discourtesy if I say no more about it.
§ Question put. "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Bill."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 239; Noes, 95.
353| Division No. 494.] | AYES. | [10.20 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. |
| Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. | Chapman, Sir S. | Gadie, Lieut.-Col. Anthony |
| Albery, Irving James | Charteris, Brigadier-General J. | Galbraith, J. F. W. |
| Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) | Chilcott, Sir Warden | Ganzoni, Sir John |
| Applin, Colonel R. V. K. | Christie, J. A. | Gates, Percy |
| Apsley, Lord | Churchman, Sir Arthur C. | Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Clarry, Reginald George | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. | Cochrane. Commander Hon. A. D. | Goff, Sir Park |
| Astor, Viscountess | Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir G. K. | Gower, Sir Robert |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Cope. Major William | Grace, John |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Courthope, Lieut.-Col. Sir George L. | Graham Frederick F. (Cumb'ld., N.) |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Cowan. Sir Wm. Henry (Islington,N.) | Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. |
| Balniel, Lord | Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | Greene, W. P. Crawford |
| Barclay-Harvey, C. M. | Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) | Grotrian, H. Brent |
| Barnett, Major Sir Richard | Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) | Guest. Capt. Rt. Hon. F. E.(Bristol, N.) |
| Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.) | Curzon, Captain Viscount | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. |
| Bethel, A. | Dalkeith. Earl of | Hacking. Captain Douglas H. |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Dalziel, Sir Davison | Hall, Vice-Admiral Sir R. (Eastb'rne) |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Davies, Maj. Geo. F.(Somerset, Yeovil) | Hammersley. S. S. |
| Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) | Davies, Dr. Vernon | Hanbury,C. |
| Blundell, F. N. | Dawson, Sir Philip | Hannor, Patrick Joseph Henry |
| Boothby, R. J. G. | Dean, Arthur Wellesley | Harrison, G. J. C. |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Drawe, c. | Hartington, Marquess of |
| Braithwaite, A. N. | Duckworth. John | Harvey G. (Lambeth, Kennington) |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Eden, Captain Anthony | Harvey Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) |
| Briggs, J. Harold | Edmondson, Major A. J. | Haslam, Henry C. |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Elliot, Major Walter E. | Hawke. John Anthony |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Ellis. R. G. | Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) |
| Broun-Lindsay, Major H. | Elveden, Viscount | Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle) |
| Brown,Brig.-Gen H.C. (Berks, Newb'y) | England, Colonel A. | Hennessy, Major J. R. G. |
| Buckingham. Sir H. | Erskine, Lord (Somerset,Weston-s.-M.) | Herbert. Dennis (Hertford. Watford) |
| Bullock, Captain M. | Everard. W. Lindsay | Herbert, S. (York, N.R. Scar. & Wh'by) |
| Burman, J. S. | Falle, Sir Bertram G. | Hills, Major John Waller |
| Burney, Lieut.-Com. Charles D. | Fielden, E. B. | Hoare. Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. |
| Burton, Colonel H. W. | Finburgh, S. | Hogg. Rt. Hon. Sir D.(St. Marylebone) |
| Butler, Sir Geoffrey | Ford, Sir P. J. | Holt. Captain H. P |
| Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Forestier-Walker, Sir L. | Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) |
| Campbell, E. T. | Forrest, W. | Hope. Sir Harry (Forfar) |
| Cassels, J. D | Foster, Sir Harry S. | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney.N.) |
| Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R.(prtsmth.S.) | Foxcroft, Captain C. T. | Hudson, R. S. (Cumberl'nd, Whiteh'n) |
| Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Frece, Sir Walter de | Iliffe. Sir Edward M. |
| Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) | Oman, Sir Charles William C. | Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H. |
| Jephcott, A. P. | Penny, Frederick George | Stroatfeild, Captain S. R. |
| Kidd, J. (Linlithgow) | Perkins, Colonel E. K. | Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C. |
| King. Captain Henry Douglas | Perring, Sir William George | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser |
| Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Peto. Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid |
| Lister, Cunliffe. Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Plelou, D. p. | Templeton, W. P. |
| Little,' Dr. E. Graham | Power, Sir John Cecil | Thom, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton) |
| Lloyd. Cyril E. (Dudley) | Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Assheton | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) |
| Loder, J. de V. | Price, Major C. W. M. | Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell- |
| Lord, Walter Greaves- | Radford, E. A. | Tinne, J. A. |
| Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vert | Raine, W. | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Luce, Maj. Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Rawson, Sir Cooper | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P. |
| MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen | Rees, Sir Beddoe | Waddington, R. |
| Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (l. of W.) | Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington) | Wallace, Captain D. E. |
| Macdonald, R. (Glasgow, Cathcart) | Reid. O. D. (County Down) | Warner, Brigadier-General W. W. |
| McLean, Ma)or A. | Renter, J. R. | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Macmillan, Captain H. | Remnant, Sir James | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) |
| Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) | Watson. Rt. Hon. w. (Carlisle) |
| McNeill, Rt. Hon. Ronald John | Robinson, Sir T. (Lanes., Stretford) | Watts, Dr. T. |
| Macquisten, F. A. | Ropner, Major L. | Wells, S. R. |
| MacRobert, Alexander M. | Ruggles-Brise. Major E. A | Wheler, Major Sir Granville C. H. |
| Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel- | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) | White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dairymple |
| Malone, Major P. B. | Rye, F G. | Williams, A. M. (Cornwall. Northern) |
| Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn | Samuel. A. M. (Surrey. Farnham) | Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay) |
| Meller. R. J. | Sandeman, A. Stewart | Williams. C. P. (Denbigh. Wrexham) |
| Merriman, F. B. | Sandon, Lord | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Meyer. Sir Frank | Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. | Winterton. Rt. Hon. Earl |
| Mitchell, S. (Lanark. Lanark) | Savery, S. S. | Wise. Sir Fredric |
| Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Welden) | Shaw, Lt.-Col, A. D.Mcl.(Renfrew, W.) | Wolmer. Viscount |
| Monsell. Eyres. Com. Rt. Hon. B. M | Sheffield, Sir Berkeley | Womersley, W J. |
| Moore. Lieut. -Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr; | Shepperson, E. W. | Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater) |
| Moore, Sir Newton J. | Skelton, A. N. | Wood. E.(Chest'r. Stalvb'dge & Hyde) |
| Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine.C! | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Morrison, H. (Wilts, Salisbury) | Smithers, Waldron | Woodcock, Colonel H. C- |
| Morrison. C. K. | Spender-Clay, Colonel H. | Wragg, Herbert |
| Neville. R. J. | Sprot, Sir Alexander | Yerburgh. Major Robert 0. T. |
| Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Stanley, Col. Hon. G.F. (Will'sden, E.) | |
| Newton. Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge! | Stanley, Lord (Fylde) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Nuttall, Ellis | Stanley. Hon. O. F.G. (Westm'eland) | Captain Margesson and Captain |
| O'Connor, T. J. (Bedlord, Luton) | Storry-Deans, A. | Bowyer. |
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson. w. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Hardie, George D. | Riley, Ben |
| Ammon. Charles Georqe | Harris. Percy A. | Ritson. J. |
| Attlee. Clement Richard | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Robinson, w. C. (Yorks, W. R. Elland) |
| Baker. Walter | Haydny, Arthur | Scrymgeour, E. |
| 3arnes. A. | Henderson, T. (Glasgow) | Scurr, John |
| Batey. Joseph | Hirst, G. H. | Sexton, James |
| Bromfield, William | Hore-Belisha, Leslie | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
| Bromley, J. | Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) | Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness) |
| Buchanan, G. | Johnston. Thomas (Dundee) | Sitch. Charles H. |
| Charleton. H. C. | Jones. Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Smith. H. B. Lees (Keighley) |
| Clowes. S. | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Smith, Ronnie (Penistone) |
| Cluse, W. S. | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) | Spoor, Rt. Hon. Benjamin Charles |
| Connolly, M. | Kelly, W. T. | Stamford, T. W. |
| Cove. W G. | Kennedy, T. | Stenhen, Campbell |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Lansbury, George | Sullivan, J. |
| Crawfurd, H. E. | Lawrence, Susan | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| Dalton, Hugh | Lee. F. | Thurtle, Ernest |
| Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Lindley. F. W. | Townend, A. E. |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Lowth, T. | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Day, Colonel Harry | Lunn, William | Webb. Rt. Hon. Sidney |
| Dennison, R. | Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) | Westwood, J. |
| Dunnico, H. | March. S. | Whiteley, W. |
| Gardner, J. P. | Maxton, James | Wiggins, William Martin |
| Gibbins. Joseph | Montague, Frederick | Williams, David (Swansea, E.) |
| Gillett. George M. | Naylor, T. E. | Williams. T. (York, Don Vatley) |
| Gosling. Harry | Oliver, George Harold | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Owen. Major G. | Wilton, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Greenall. D. R. (Glamorgan) | Palin. John Henry | Windsor. Walter |
| Groves, T. | Paling, W. | Young, Robert (Lancaster. Newton) |
| Grundy, T. W. | Pontonby. Arthur | |
| Hall. F. (York. W.R. Normanton) | Potts, John S. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Hall. G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Pureed, A. A. | Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. |
| Hamilton, Sir R.(Orkney & Shetland) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Hayes. |
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERI beg to move, in page 11, line 15, to leave out from the word "undergone," to the end of line 17, and to insert instead thereof the words 354
in the United Kingdom any treatment or process resulting in a substantial change in the goods.This is a drafting Amendment, moved in accordance with an undertaking which I 355 gave in Committee. The definition of "imported goods" was fully discussed, and it was generally agreed that paragraph (a) should be brought into line with paragraph (b), and this Amendment does that.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Mr. B. PETOI beg to move, in page 11, line 15, after the words last inserted, to insert the words
provided that the assembling or setting tip of parts of any manufactured article shall not be held to be a substantial change within the meaning of this Section.This is the Clause which defines "Imported goods," which are the governing words of Clause 2; in fact, that is the whole purport of this part of the Bill. If you say in paragraph (a) that certain goods are not to be held to he imported goods, they are, ipso facto, left outside the scope of the Bill. I am moving this Amendment because cabinet work imported into this country is never imported as a whole, so that it does not undergo any substantial change; it is imported in parts, which are assembled here and, very likely, french Polished also, but no Committee would say that putting together four or five parts of an article did not constitute a substantial change in that article, and, therefore, I desire to put in words expressly limiting this definition by saying that the mere assembling of goods will not constitute a substantial change. It might be conceded that, in Subsection (3) of Clause 4, power is given to the Committee to order the marking of the parts, but that Clause is a part of the Bill, and this definition Clause clearly over-rides it; the Committee can do nothing in the way of ordering the marking of parts if the definition Clause says that certain things are left entirely out of the Bill.It might possibly be held in certain cases that all the parts which were made abroad, and which were merely assembled in this country, might be marked under an Order made under Clauso 4, but in the case of cabinet work I hold that that certainly is not so, and, to show that this is regarded as an important. matter by the cabinet trade, I may say that I have received a letter from the chairman of the Cabinet Trade Federation, in which he says that larger quantities of imparted 356 cabinet work are coming into this country than formerly, and that these goods are undoubtedly passed off on the British public as goods of British manufacture. That being the case, as I know it is, it is quite clear that, if there is need for this Bill at all, there is certainly need for the inclusion of this particular trade. I, therefore., ask the President of the Board of Trade to accept the words I desire to insert, which could do no possible harm, and which would affect a trade which was regarding this Bill with hope, but is now regarding it with apprehension, in view of the fact that in this definition Clause words have been inserted which seem definitely to leave the whole of its products outside the scope of the Bill.
§ Sir WILLIAM PERRINGI beg to second the Amendment.
I want to call the attention of the House to the fact that it is one thing for a number of articles to undergo a process which means a substantial change, and another thing to assemble a number of parts together into a complete article when they have not undergone a substantial change b^ a manufacturing process. To enumerate a few articles to demonstrate the point I wish to make, we may have gramophones, motor cars, electric fittings, or wireless apparatus, all the parts of which may be imported from abroad, but which, when they are assembled into a manufactured article, can, as I understand the Clause, be sold as a British article. I am sure the House does not desire that a number of foreign-made parts assembled here should be sold as a British manufactured article. Time after time in these Debates it has been asserted or suggested that this is a Bill to prohibit the importation of foreign goods, but that is quite a mistake. All that the Bill dues is to ask that things which are really foreign shall be marked as foreign, so that the purchaser or consumer may know for his own satisfaction whether they are foreign or not. An article that is assembled here, of which all the component parts are made abroad, is still a foreign article. In other words, if the parts of a watch were sent over here in different cases and assembled together and said, to say they are British is really getting behind the Act. I am sure the President of the Board of Trade, in his anxiety to protect the 357 public in this respect, will realise that this is quite distinct from the Amendment which the House has accepted.
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERThe Committee spent a great; deal of time and trouble in getting a sound and accurate definition of imported goods. The result. has been that we have now amended paragraph (a) by general consent to bring it in conformity with (b), and I am sure my hon. Friend will appreciate that what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander and if he was to extend still further protection to goods in this country he would have, naturally and logically, to extend still further the operation of (b). He is not altogether without remedy in the matter he has raised, because it will be open to those for whom he has spoken to make an application not only in respect of the completed article, but in respect of the parts, and if an order was made then under Section 4 (3) it would be for the person who assembled the parts to show that they were not of foreign origin. I hope my hon. Friend will not press the matter. I am sure we shall not improve, either in accuracy of language or in convenience of practice, the result at which we have arrived.
§ Mr. PETOHas the right hon. Gentleman considered the point, and can he assure me that imported cabinet work, imported in parts and assembled in this country will be within the scope of the Bill?
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERI really must not be asked to pronounce judgment on such a matter. It, would be most improper for me to do so when the House has laid down that the procedure is to be by application to a Committee.
§ Mr. WESTWOODCould the existing cabinet be marked as far as its constituent parts are concerned?
§ Question put, "That those words be there inserted in the Bill."
§ The House proceeded to a Division—
§ There being no Member willing to act as Teller for the "Ayes," MR, SPEAKER declared that the "Noes" had it
358§ Mr. SPEAKERThe next Amendment, which stands in the name of the hon. Member for South-West Bethnal Green (Mr. Harris),£in page 11, line 24, at the end, to insert the words
(c) goods which are blended or mixed after importation into the United Kingdom provided that they are marked with the word 'blended,'is covered, I think, by the Government Amendment which follows. Does the hon. Member for North Tottenham (Mr. H. Morrison) move the Amendment which stands in his name?
§ Mr. BARNESI beg to move in page 11, line 28, to leave out the word "words," and to insert instead thereof the word "word."
I understood the President. of the Board of Trade to say earlier that he would be prepared to accept. a modification.
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERI think that would be convenient. Therefore, I will accept the next four Amendments.
Captain BENNMay I ask whether a person who has to stamp the foreign article with the words showing that it is of foreign manufacture, will be entitled to add anything else? Will he be entitled to add the words, "Buy German Goods"? While he is making the die, will he be able to add the words, "German Goods are best"?
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERThere is nothing to stop anyone from doing anything he likes in that respect. He might add the words, "Vote for the Liberal party," if he likes.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Further Amendments made: In page 11, line 29, leave out the words "'manufacture' or 'foreign produce.'"
§ In line 32, leave out the word "words," and insert the word "word."
§ In line 33, leave out the words "'manufacture' or 'Empire produce.'"—[Mr. Barnes.]
§ Mr. WEBBI beg to move, in page 11, to leave out lines 38 and 39, inclusive.
It is not possible in some cases to put the marking in a conspicuous form. These words become unnecessary.
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERI hope the right hon. Gentleman will not press this Amendment. Obviously, if we are to have any marking at all, let it be so that he who runs may read. Do let the marking, if it be ordered at all, be conspicuous.
§ Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out, stand part of the Bill."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 233; Noes, 99.
361| Division No. 495.] | AYES. | [10.46 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyle, Lieut.-Colonel | Falle, Sir Bertram G. | Meller, R. J. |
| Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. | Fielden, E. B. | Merriman, F. B. |
| Albery, Irving James | Finburgh, S. | Meyer. Sir Frank |
| Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) | Ford. Sir P. J. | Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) |
| Applin, Colonel R. V. K | Forestier-Walker, Sir L. | Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) |
| Apsley, Lord | Forrest, W. | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. |
| Ashley. Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Foster, Sir Harry S. | Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) |
| Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. | Foxcroft, Captain C. T. | Moore, Sir Newton J. |
| Astor, Viscountess | Fraser, Captain Ian | Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Frece, Sir Walter de | Morrison H. (Wilts, Salisbury) |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Fremantle, Lt.-Col. Francis E. | Murchison, C. K. |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Gadie. Lieut.-Col. Anthony | Neville, R. J. |
| Balniel, Lord | Galbraith, J. F. w. | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) |
| Barclay-Harvey, C. M. | Ganzoni, Sir John | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) |
| Sarnett, Major Sir Richard | Gates, Percy | Nuttall, Ellis |
| Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.) | Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton | O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) |
| Bethel, A. | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Oman, Sir Charles William C. |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Goff, Sir Park | Penny. Frederick George |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Gower, Sir Robert | Perkins. Colonel E. K |
| Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W, R., Skipton) | Grace, John | Perring, Sir William George |
| Blundell, F. N. | Graham, Frederick F. (Cumb'ld., N.) | Peto, Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) |
| Boothby, R. J.. G. | Grattan-Doyle, Sir N | Plelou. D. P. |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Greene, W. p. Crawford | Power, sir John Cecil |
| Sowyer, Capt. G. E. W. | Grotrian, H. Brent. | Pownall. Lieut.-Colonel Sir Assheton |
| Braithwaite, A. N. | Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. F. E.(Bristol,N.) | Price. Major C. W. M. |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. | Radford, E. A. |
| Brings, J. Harold | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Raine, W. |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Hall, Vice-Admiral Sir R.(Eastbourne) | Rawson Sir Cooper |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Hammersley, S. S. | Rees, Sir Seddoe |
| Broun-Lindsay, Major H. | Hanbury, C. | Reid. Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington) |
| Brown, Brig, -Gen. H.C.(Berks, Newb'y) | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Reid, O. D. (County Down) |
| Buckingham, Sir H. | Harrison, G. J. C. | Remer, J. R. |
| Bullock, Captain M. | Hartington, Marquess of | Remnant, Sir James |
| Burman, J. B, | Harvey. G. (Lambeth, Kennington) | Richardson. Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'tt'y) |
| Burney. Lieut.-Com. Charles D. | Harvey. Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) | Robinson, Sir T. (Lanes, Stretford) |
| Burton, Colonel H. W. | Haslam, Henry C | Ropner. Major L. |
| Butler, Sir Geuffray | Hawke, John Anthony | Ruggles-Brise, Major E. A. |
| Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) |
| Campbell. F. T | Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle) | Rye, F. G. |
| Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt.R.(Prtsmth,S.) | Hennessy, Major J. R. G. | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey. Farnham) |
| Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Herbert, S. (York. N.R.Scar, & Wh'by) | Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) |
| Chadwick. Sir Robert Burton | Kills, Major John Waller | Sandeman, A. Stewart |
| Chapman, Sir S. | Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon Sir S. J. G. | Sandon Lord |
| Chilcott, Sir Warden | Hogg, Rt. Hon.Sir D.(St.Marylebone) | Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. |
| Christie, J. A. | Holt. Captain H. P. | Savery. S. S. |
| Churchman, Sir Arthur C. | Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar) | Shaw, Capt. Walter (Wilts, Westb'y) |
| Clarry, Reginald George | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M.(Hackney,N.) | Sheffield. Sir Berkeley |
| Cochrane. Commander Hon. A. D. | Hiffe, Sir Edward M. | Skelton. A. N. |
| Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir G. K. | Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Cope. Major William | Jephcott, A. R. | Smithers, Waldron |
| Courtauld. Major J. S. | Kidd, J. (Linlithgow) | Spender-Clay, Colonel H. |
| Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islingtn., N.) | King, Captain Henry Douglas | Sprot, Sir Alexander |
| Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | Kinloch-Cooke. Sir Clement | Stanley, Col. Hon. G.F.(Willsden.E) |
| Crooke. J. Smedley (Derltend) | Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Stanley Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) |
| Crookshank. Col. C. de W. (Berwick) | Little. Dr. E. Graham | Stirry-Deans. R. |
| Curzon, Captain Viscount | Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) | Stott. Lieut.-Colonel W. H. |
| Dalkeith. Earl of | Loder, J. de V. | Streatfield. Captain S. R. |
| Dalziel. Sir Davison | Lord. Walter Greaves- | Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C. |
| Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) | Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere | Sueter, Rear-Admlral Murray Fraser |
| Davies, Dr. Vernon | Luce. Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid |
| Dean. Arthur Wellesley | Macdonald, Capt. P. O. (I. of W.) | Templeton, W. P. |
| Drewe. C. | Macdonald. R. (Glasgow, Cathcart) | Thorn, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton) |
| Duekworth John | McLean. Major A. | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen. South) |
| Eden. Captain Anthony | Macmillan, Captain H. | Thomson, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell- |
| Edmondson. Major A. J. | Macnaqhten. Hon. Sir Malcolm | Tinne, J. A. |
| Ellis, R. G. | McNeill, Rt. Hon. Ronald John | Tryon. Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Elveden. Viscount | Macquisten. F. A. | Vauqhan-Morgan Col. K. F. |
| England, Colonel A. | Mac Robert, Alexander M. | Waddington. R. |
| Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s-M.) | Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel- | Wallace, Captain D. E. |
| Everard. W. Lindsay | Malone, Major p. B. | Warner, Brigadier-General W. W |
| Fairfax, Captain J. G. | Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) | Williams, Herbert G. (Reading) | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle) | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. |
| Watts, Dr. T. | Winterton. Rt. Hon. Earl | Wragg. Herbert |
| wells, S. R. | Wise, Sir Fredric | Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T. |
| Wheler, Major Sir Granville C. H. | Wolmer, Viscount | |
| White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dairymple- | Womersley, W. J. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES — |
| Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern) | Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater) | Captain Lord Stanley and Captain |
| Williams. Com. C. (Devon, Torquay) | Wood, E. (Chester, Staly-b'ge & Hyde) | Margesson. |
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Hardie, George D. | Riley, Ben |
| Ammon, Charles George | Harris, Percy A. | Ritson. J. |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W. R., Elland) |
| Baker, Walter | Hayday, Arthur | Scrymgeour, E. |
| Barnes, A. | Henderson, T. (Glasgow) | Scurr, John |
| Batey, Joseph | Hirst, G. H. | Sexton, James |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Hore-Beilsha, Leslie | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
| Bromfield, William | Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) | Sinclair, Major sir A. (Caithness) |
| Bromley, J. | Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Buchanan, G. | Jones. Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Slesser, Sir Henry H. |
| Charleton, H. C. | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey. Rotherhithe) |
| Clowes, S. | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) | Smith, H. B.' Lees- (Keighley) |
| Cluse, W. S. | Kelly, W. T. | Spoor, Rt. Hon. Benjamin Charier |
| Connolly, M. | Kennedy, T. | Stamford, T. W. |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities | Lansbury, George | Stephen, Campbell |
| Crawfurd, H. E. | Lawrence, Susan | Sullivan, J. |
| Dalton, Hugh | Lee, F. | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Lindley, F. W. | Thurtle, Ernest |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Lowth, T. | Townend, A. E, |
| Day, Colonel Harry | Lunn, William | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D, (Rhondda) |
| Dennison, R. | MacLaren, Andrew | Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney |
| Duncan, C. | Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) | Wettwood, J. |
| Dunnico, H. | March, S. | Whiteley, W. |
| Gardner, J. P. | Maxton, James | Wiggins, William Martin |
| Gibbins. Joseph | Montague, Frederick | Williams, C. P. (Denbigh. Wrexham) |
| Gillett, George M. | Naylor, T. E. | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
| Gosling. Harry | Oliver, George Harold | Williams. T. (York. Don Valley) |
| Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Owen, Major G. | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Palin, John Henry | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Groves, T. | Paling, W. | Windsor, Walter |
| Grundy, T. W. | Ponsonby, Arthur | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | Potts, John S. | |
| Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Purcell, A. A. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES — |
| Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) | Richardson, R. (Houuhton-le-Spring) | Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. Hayes. |
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERI beg to move, in page 12, line 10, at the end, to insert the words
For the purposes of this Sub-section the expression blend or mixture ' does not include any blend or mixture produced by a process of manufacture from materials of different kindsThis Amendment is moved in order to safeguard a possibility not foreseen in Committee. It was discovered that the Clause as drafted might possibly he held to cover a mixture of cotton and silk which it was never intended to bring within the terms of the Clause. Therefore, this proviso is put ire to make plain what was the intention.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Further Amendment made: In page 12, line 14, leave out the words "a manufacturing," and insert instead thereof the words "any treatment or."—[Sir P. Cunliffe-Lister.]
362§ Mr. WIGGINSI beg to move, in page 12, line 15, at the end, to insert the words
'Substantial change by reason of a manufacturing process' does not include a change effected in any textile material by way of bleaching, dyeing, or finishing.I think the House of Commons ought to make up its mind here and now that one of the things that should not be left to the whims and fancies of the committee to be set up is the question of what happens to English cloth if it goes out of this country for treatment and then comes back here. If the words of my Amendment be not inserted in the Clause, cloth manufactured in this country which goes out of this country for a special process of finishing, on coming hack here is liable to be treated as of foreign manufacture. If we desired by this Bill to advertise foreign goods that would be the best way of doing it. When we send cloth out for some process and it comes back here, we do 363 not want it to be marked "German" or "French" or anything else; it should retain its character as English, having been made in this country. Not only that which remains in this country but that which goes out should be covered by the Amendment. I hope that the Minister will see the reasonableness of the request and will insert some words which would remove this danger from affecting a trade which is already in too bad a way from other causes.
§ Major CRAWFURDI beg to second the Amendment.
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERI cannot accept the Amendment as it stands. It would be inconsistent with what we have already done. Sub-section (3) states that:
For the purposes of this Act, imported goods shall be deemed to have been manufactured in the country in which they last underwent before importation a substantial change by reason of a manufacturing process.11.0 P.M.There may be processes which are not substantial, and on the other hand processes of a large, expensive and complicated character, which really do change the character of the goods. It would be unreasonable to insert an exception which covers the whole of those goods. But there is some reason in what the Mover of the Amendment has said. He should remember that there is no generally operative Order, but that every case has to be decided on its merits. What I propose to do is to see that. in another place words are inserted which will make it plain that., even where an Order has been made covering articles of this kind, it shall be permissible to mark them "Foreign dyed" or in some such way instead of marking the goods as "Foreign," thus suggesting that they are wholly foreign. I think that is a reasonable proposal.
§ Mr. HARRISDoes the right hon. Gentleman think it is a good thing to advertise foreign dyers, and does he think his proposal is going to help British manufacturers, especially in Lancashire? His proposal means that when they send their goods to be dyed or finished abroad the goods will come back bearing a foreign brand. I suggest that the right hon. Gentleman might insert some more satisfactory words than those he proposes 364 and if he cannot accept the proposal of the Amendment perhaps he himself is a little more ingenious and might find other words, especially after consulting Lancashire Chambers of Trade.
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERThe short answer to that is that if the people who make the cloth do not want it marked it need not be marked.
§ Mr. WEBBIt may be too late to make any alteration at this stage, but I cannot help viewing with great alarm the prospect which has been opened up by the answer of the Minister. There is in Lancashire and Yorkshire a great industry in the production of cloth which may go to Germany or France to be bleached or dyed or finished. If when that cloth comes in again, it is to be marked "Foreign dyed" or anything of that sort it will be a serious matter, and I beg of the right hon. Gentleman to consider what an enormous proportion of cloth going out from this country will be so marked. Such a proposal would be calamity. I think it is of vital importance that something should be done to make this matter quite clear. We should not quarrel about details but surely this House cannot contemplate taking this step in relation to an enormous industry on which a great deal of England is dependent and compelling that industry in the ordinary course of its business to have its products marked "Foreign dyed" or "Foreign finished." The right hon. Gentleman I submit must find some way other than this to help the people in Lancashire and in the West. Biding of Yorkshire to go on doing what they have been doing for generations without being subject to this liability.
§ Mr. HAMMERSLEYI very much regret that the Minister did not see his way to accept this Amendment. To my mind it is a serious prospect if cotton goods woven in Lancashire and sent abroad to undergo some interim-diary process of dying or bleaching are to be sent back here to be made up and re-exported abroad with some mark on them of a character to suggest that the intermediary process had been done abroad. That will inform individuals abroad that there is some process which is not done in Lancashire and will be an incentive to them to import that material in its unfinished state and to get the inter- 365 mediary process done themselves in some foreign country. It is a great mistake to suggest that it would be possible for any Committee to decide whether or not articles of this character should be branded because some intermediary process has been performed abroad. I understand that the, President's reply to this objection would be that, after all, articles exported are not necessarily going to be marked at all, but the point is that goods are sent abroad to be finished or dyed. They return to this country and nobody knows whether these particular goods are going to be sent abroad or not, and therefore it is impossible for a Committee not knowing the technicalities to decide. I do hope that the President will reconsider this matter and see that some suitable form of words is devised between now and the Bill going to another place and see that the very important interests of Lancashire, which, after all, has the greatest exporting industry in this country and which is very hardly hit at the present time, are properly safeguarded.
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERThe hon. Member who has just spoken has been quite misled, naturally, by what was said by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Seaham (Mr. Webb). It is not a case of a compulsory Order at all and there is nothing in this Bill which orders any single article made in Lancashire or anywhere else to be marked. They will only be marked if the people who make those goods—[HON. MEMBERS: "No. The dyers."] The people who apply would naturally be the makers of the goods. [HON. MEMBERS: "No!"] It is extremely unlikely that the dyer would apply but if the dyer did apply for such an Order, the maker of the goods would obviously be entitled to be heard.
§ Lieut.-Commander ASTBURYI trust the right hon. Gentleman will not accept this Amendment and that he will not alter the wording when it goes to another place. What is going on? It is merely that the merchant in Manchester buys his yarn in Lancashire and then, in order that he may get it dyed a little more cheaply in a foreign country, say Italy or France, where there are longer hours and lower wages, gets it finished there. They are not British goods. They are foreign goods just in the same way as goods are put on to the home market 366 the major part of which have been completed abroad. Let us have the whole of the work done in this country.
§ Major C RAWFURD rose—
§ Mr. SPEAKERI think the hon. Member seconded the Amendment.
§ Mr. WADDINGTONI hope the President of the Board of Trade will not propose, in another place, to have words inserted as suggested. I entirely dissent from the view expressed by one of my hon. Friends who spoke before. Speaking as a manufacturer, we feel that a good deal of our troubles in Lancashire to-day are caused by the operations of people who run their works 00 per cent. and pay 16 per cent. dividend, and there is no question that the actual manufacturers of commodities in Lancashire, the capitalists in the spinning and weaving trade, are entirely opposed to the attitude which is taken up by the calico printers and dyers. There is another point to be borne in mind and that is that we have on the Statute Book a Dyestuffs Act. We have spent a good deal of money in trying to secure for British dyestuffs that supremacy which we hope every British industry will attain. The great difficulty will be, If these goods are to be brought back after being dyed in a foreign country and if they are to have the mark "foreign dyed" put on them, and if British-dyed goods have no mark put on them, that we shall be deliberately setting out to disparage our own industry. I hope that if the President of the Board of Trade cannot accept this Amendment in its present form he will, in another place, try to frame an Amendment which will more nearly meet the terms of this Amendment than the word which he himself advocates.
§ Mr. RILEYThe voice of Yorkshire has not yet been heard. So far as Yorkshire is concerned the arguments which have been put forward from Lancashire do not apply to the same extent, because in the West Riding, our goods are mainly sent abroad by manufacturers. I am perfectly certain from the comments I have heard in regard to this proposal that it is strongly resented by the textile industry in the West Riding and I would advise the President of the Board of Trade to show a spirit of conciliation upon this matter. I would like to com- 367 ment upon one extraordinary aspect from the point of view of British trade in this matter. The method adopted by the promoters of this Bill is calculated by sending the goods made in this country abroad to he stamped after either being dyed or bleached to advertise the shortcomings of British trade and the excellence of the treatment of other countries. Nothing could be more foolish and short-sighted than that. I hope that the, President of the Board of Trade will find some way to meet that practical difficulty.
Mr. SANDEMANI would like to associate myself with what has been said by the hon. Member for Rossendale (Mr. Waddington). There is no question as to the effect this will have unless we get a promise from the President of the Board of Trade to make some Amendment in another place. We have so many goods in Lancashire which in some cases have to go abroad and he printed. It is a question of price and of keeping the competitive price in this matter.
Captain BENNBefore we dispose of this Amendment, it would be well that the House should understand exactly what, are the intentions of the President of the Board of Trade. At the start he told us that none of this cloth would be stamped except at the desire of the manufacturers, but it immediately became apparent that other people would come in, those interested in the dyeing process. What does the President of the Board of Trade intend to do? Does he, in another place, intend to accept the Amendment of my hon. Friend, or does he still intend to have the goods stamped, not "German foreign cloth," but "Best foreign cloth"? Or does the right hon. Gentleman intend to satisfy
§ the dyers and have the cloth stamped "Guaranteed German dyed"?
§ He must do one or ether. He may not be able to control the stamping, but as long as the word "foreign" appears, any adjective may be added. The House is entitled to know what the Government proposes to do.
§ Sir P. CUNLIFFE-LISTERThe offer I made was that there should be power to put on, "foreign dyed," which would indicate foreign manufacture. I am quite willing that this point should be discussed in another place. I think it is a, reasonable offer. The difficulty of this question has been greatly exaggerated. There are two sets of critics and in their desire as to what should be done, they have mutually destroyed each other. There is keen opposition between the dyers and the cloth-makers. The cloth-makers want to be able to deal with the foreign dyers, and the dyers want to make the cloth-makers have their goods dyed in this country. Note what will happen. The cloth-maker, if he does not wish the cloth to be marked will not apply for a marking order—and the dyer will not. The dyer says that the last thing he wants is to give an opportunity for cloth to be marked "foreign dyed." I accept from both sets of speakers, who have spoken with great authority, their point of view, and while they are in direct opposition on most points, they are in complete unity on one thing. The clothmakers and the dyers have not the least desire to have goods marked "foreign manufacture," or "foreign dyed." As they are both agreed that the last thing they desire is an order, what on earth are we arguing about?
§ Question put: "That those words be there inserted in the Bill."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 100; Noes, 222.
371| Division No. 496.] | AYES. | [11.18 p.m. |
| Adamson, w. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Dalton, Hugh | Gosling, Harry |
| Amman, Charles George | Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Greenwood, A. {Nelson and Colne) |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) |
| Baker, Walter | Davies, Dr. Vernon | Grundy, T. W. |
| Barnes, A. | Day, Colonel Harry | Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. F. E. (Bristol, N.) |
| Batey, Joseph | Dennison, R. | Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Duckworth, John | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) |
| Bromfield, William | Duncan, C. | Hamilton. Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) |
| Bromley, J. | Dunnico, H. | Hammersley, S. S. |
| Buchanan, G. | Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Hardie, George D. |
| Charleton, H. C. | England, Colonel A. | Harris, Percy A. |
| Clowes. S. | Forrest, W. | Hayday, Arthur |
| Cluse, W.'S. | Gardner, J. P. | Hayes, John Henry |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Gibbins, Joseph | Henderson, T. (Glasgow) |
| Crawford, H. E. | Gillett, George M. | Hirst, G. H. |
| Hore-Belisha, Leslie | Potts, John S. | Stephen, Campbell |
| Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) | Purcell, A. A. | Sullivan, J. |
| Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Rees, Sir Beddoe | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Townend, A. E. |
| Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) | Riley, Ben | Waddington, R. |
| Kelly, W. T. | Robinson, Sir T. (Lanc, Stretfort) | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Kennedy, T. | Robinson, W.C. (Yorks, W. R.,Elland) | Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney |
| Lansbury, George | Saklatvala, Shapurji | Westwood, J. |
| Lawrence, Susan | Sandeman, A. Stewart | Wiggins, William Martin |
| Lee, F. | Scrymgeour, E. | Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham) |
| Lindley, F. W. | Scurr, John | Williams, David (Swansea. E.) |
| Lunn, William | Sexton, James | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| MacLaren, Andrew | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) | Wilson. C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) | Sinclair. Major Sir A. (Caithness) | Windsor, Walter |
| March, S. | Sitch, Charles H. | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Maxton, James | Slesser, Sir Henry H. | |
| Naylor, T. E. | Smith Ben (Bermondsey. Rotherhiths) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Oliver, George Harold | Smith, H. B, Lees- (Keigh'ey) | Sir Robert Hutchison and Major |
| Paling, W. | Spoor, Rt. Hon Benjamin Charles | Owen. |
| Ponsonby, Arthur | Stamford, T. W. | |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Troyte. Lieut. Colonel | Ellis, R. G. | MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen |
| Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon, Sir James T. | Elvedon, Viscount | Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) |
| Albery, Irving James | Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-S-M.) | Macdonald, R. (Glasgow, Cathcart) |
| Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) | Everard, W. Lindsay | McLean, Major A. |
| Applin, Colonel R. V. K | Fairfax. Captain J. G. | Macmillan, Captain H. |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Falle, Sir Bertram G. | Macnagmen, Hon. Sir Malcolm |
| Astbury, Lieut-Commander F. W. | Fielden, E. B. | McNeill, Rt. Hon. Ronald John |
| Astor, Maj. Hn. John J. (Kent, Dover) | Finburgh, S. | Macquisten, F. A. |
| Astor, Viscountess | Ford, Sir P. J. | MacRobert, Alexander M. |
| Atholl. Duchess of | Forestier-Walker, Sir L. | Maitland, Sir Arthur D. steel- |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Foster, Sir Harry S. | Malone, Major P. B. |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Foxcroft, Captain C. T. | Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn |
| Balniel, Lord | Fraser, Captain Ian | Meller, R. J. |
| Barclay-Harvey, C. M. | Frece, Sir Walter de | Merrlman, F. B. |
| Barnett, Major Sir Richard | Fremantle, Lieut-Colonel Francis E. | Meyer, Sir Frank |
| Bethel, A. | Gadie, Lieut.-Col. Anthony | Mitchell. S. (Lanark, Lanark) |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Galbraith, J. F. W. | Mitchell, W, Foot (Saffron Walden) |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Ganzoni, Sir John | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. |
| Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) | Gates, Percy | Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) |
| Blundell, F. N. | Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton | Moore, Sir Newton J. |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T, C. |
| Bowyer, Captain G. E. W. | Goff, Sir Park | Morrison, H. (Wilts, Salisbury) |
| Braithwaite, A. R. | Gower, sir Robert | Murchlson, C. K. |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Grace, John | Neville, R. J. |
| Briggs, J. Harold | Graham, Frederick F. (Cumb'ld., N.) | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) |
| Brittain. Sir Harry | Greene, W. P. Crawford | Nuttall, Ellis |
| Broun-Lindsay, Major H. | Grotrian, H. Brent | O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen. H.C.(Berks,Newb'y) | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. | Oman, Sir Charles William C. |
| Buckingham, Sir H. | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Penny, Frederick George |
| Bullock, Captain M. | Hall. Vice-Admiral Sir r, (Eastbourne) | Perkins, Colonel E. K. |
| Burman, J. R | Hanbury, c. | Perring, Sir William George |
| Burton, Colonel H. W, | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Peto, Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) |
| Butler, Sir Geuthrey | Harrison, G, J. C. | Plelou, D. P. |
| Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Hartington, Marquess of | Power, Sir John Cecil |
| Campbell, E. T. | Harvey, Major S. E. {Devon, Totnes) | Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Assheton |
| Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt.R.(Prtsmth.S.) | Haslam, Kenry C. | Price, Major C. W. M. |
| Cazalct, Captain Victor A. | Hawke. John Anthony | Radford, E. A. |
| Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Henderson, Capt. R. R. (Oxf'd, Henley) | Raine, W. |
| Chapman, Sir S. | Henderson, Lieut.-Col, V. L. (Bootle) | Rawson, Sir Cooper |
| Charteris, Brigadier-General J. | Hennessy, Major J, R. G. | Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington) |
| Chilcott, Sir Warden | Herbert. Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Held, O. D. (County Down) |
| Christie, J. A. | Horbert,S.(York, N.R., Scar, & Wh'by) | Remer, J, R. |
| Churchman, Sir Arthur C. | Hills, Major John Waller | Rice, Sir Frederick |
| Clarry, Reginald George | Hogg, Rt. Hon.Sir D.(St.Marylebone) | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) |
| Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. | Holt. Captain H. P. | Ropner, Major L. |
| Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir G. K, | Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar) | Ruggles-Brise, Major E. A. |
| Courtauld, Major J. S. | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M.(Hackney,N.) | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) |
| Cowan, Sir Win. Henry (Islington, N.) | Hudson, R, S. (Cumberl'nd, Whiteh'n) | Rye, F. G. |
| Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | Hiffe, Sir Edward M. | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Crooke, J. Smedley (Derltend) | Jackson, sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) | Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) |
| Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) | Jephcott, A. R. | Sandon, Lord |
| Curzon, Captain Viscount | Kidd, J. (Linlithgow) | Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. |
| Dalziel, Sir Davison | King, Captain Henry Douglas | Savery, S. S. |
| Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset,Yeovil) | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Shaw, Lt.-Col.A. D. Mcl. (Henfrew, W.) |
| Dawson, Sir Philip | Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Shaw, Capt. Walter (Wilts, Westb'y) |
| Dean, Arthur Wellesley | Little, Dr. E. Graham | Sheffield, Sir Berkeley |
| Drewe, C. | Loder, J. de V. | Shepperson, E. W. |
| Eden, Captain Anthony | Lord. Walter Greaves- | Skelton, A. N. |
| Edmondson, Major A. J. | Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Elliot, Major Walter E. | Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Smithers, Waldron |
| Sprot, Sir Alexander | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement | Winterton. Rt. Hon. Earl |
| Stanley, Col. Hon. G. F.(Will'sden, E.) | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. p. | Wise, Sir Fredric |
| Stanley, Lord (Fylde) | Wallace, Captain D. E. | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) | Warner, Brigadier-General W. W. | Womersley, W. J |
| Storry-Deans, R. | Waterhouse, Captain Charles | Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater) |
| Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H. | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) | Wood, E. (Cnester, staiy'b'ge & Hyde) |
| Streatfield, Captain S. R. | Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle) | Wood, sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C. | Watts, Dr. T. | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. |
| Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser | Wells, S. R. | Wragg, Herbert |
| Sugden, Sir Wilfrid | Wheler, Major Sir Granville C. H. | Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T. |
| Templeton, W. P. | White, Lieut.-Col. Sir G. Dairymple- | |
| Thorn, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton) | Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) | Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay) | Major Cope and Captain Mar- |
| Thornton, Rt. Hon. Sir W. Mitchell- | Williams, Herbert G. (Reading) | gesson. |
| Tinne, J. A. | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
Question put, and agreed to.
Mr. GUINNESSI beg to move, in page 12, line 38, after the word "cooking" to insert the words "curing, or preserving."
We had a discussion in Committee about tinned vegetables and potted meats and it was thought that such products involved a substantial change and should be free from the necessity of being marked as foreign or Dominion produce by reason of the raw material being subject to a marking Order. It was thought that this point should be made clear by adding the words "curing, or preserving" after the word "cooking." The case is probably covered by the provision about substantial change which we inserted this evening under the definition of imported goods. There were points about cooking in a restaurant or the selling of cooked goods, and we think it will resolve any doubts on this point if we insert the words "curing, or preserving."
§ Mr. HARRISI quite appreciate that this Amendment is the result of representations which I made during the Committee stage. I want, however, to be quite clear about the result. In many streets of London there are often two fish shops almost adjoining one another, one known as a "wet fish shop" and the other a "fried fish shop," where they cook herrings. The cooked herrings would be unbranded, and the others would not.
Mr. GUINNESSAny case of the marking of fish raises a very special question. It is not clear what is meant by a "foreign fish." Would any fish caught outside the three-mile limit be a foreign fish? I really cannot give the hon. Member a definition on that point.
§ Mr. WOMERSLEYI can give the right hon. Gentleman a definition of 372 what constitutes a "foreign fish." It is a fish caught by a foreign fisherman from a foreign boat with a foreign net.
§ Amendment agreed to.