§ 9. Mr. NEIL MACLEANasked the Minister of Pensions whether he is aware that Alex. Morrison, No. 265,419, Royal Scottish Fusiliers, of 175, Queen Street, Govan, had his pension assessed at 80 per cent. (Form M.P., M.S.D. 62) by a medical board on 19th January, 1925, but on 28th January, 1925, was informed by the regional director (M.P.A. 5/2) that his pension was fixed at 30 per cent., and was granted under the dispensing warrant as an act of grace; that he was again examined by a medical board on 27th January, 1926, and again had his pension assessed at 80 per cent., and, on 9th February, 1926, was again notified by the Ministry that his pension was fixed at 30 per cent.; and that the Form M.P.A. 5/2 states that the amount awarded is in accordance with the degree of disablement found by his last board; whether he can state the reasons for the reduction of the assessments of the two medical boards from 80 per cent. to 30 per cent., and why a pension so assessed should be stated as granted, not as a right, but as an act of grace; whether he can state the dispensing warrant that gives such power; and whether he will now issue instructions for the payment of the pension as assessed by the medical boards which examined this pensioner?
§ Major TRYONIn the short time available I have not been able to look into the full facts of this case. I will communicate with the hon. Member as soon as possible.
§ Mr. MACLEANConsidering that this case has been before the Ministry of Pensions for a year, in regard to the first point, and considering that the last letter sent by the Ministry of Pensions to this particular individual is dated the 22nd February of this year, cannot the right hon. Gentleman see his way to go into this matter and to give me an answer now?
§ Major TRYONThe hon. Member does not realise that this is a matter which 1578 comes under the Scottish regional system, of which I understand he is a supporter. This question only reached me yesterday, and so long as Scottish Members insist on the files being kept in Edinburgh, it is obviously impossible for me to reply at Westminster to a question at a moment's notice?
§ Mr. MACLEANConsidering that these files are supposed to be complete, with all the information necessary, cannot they be sent in less than two days?
§ Major TRYONWe only received intimation of the hon. Member's question yesterday. We sent for the files, and the hon. Member will receive the information as soon as possible.
§ Mr. MACLEANIs it not the case that the information could have been got by telegram?
§ Major TRYONIt is not possible to send files by telegram.
§ Mr. MACLEANI am not asking for files to be sent by telegram. If the hon. Member would not be so previous he would know what is my submission. Would it not be possible to get the information contained in the files sent by telegram to the Minister?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member has had his question answered. He puts another question, and mixes it up with others. Is it possible for the Minister of Pensions to get an answer by telegram?
§ Major TRYONI would not like to answer such a question, with so much detail in it, without satisfying myself, after examination of the files, respecting all the information for which the hon. Member asks.
§ Mr. MACLEANWill the right hon. Gentleman answer the latter part of the question, whether he can state what is the dispensing warrant that gives the power claimed by the Minister in this case?
§ Major TRYONI am certainly not prepared to make a partial statement on the case of any individual pensioner, without having all the information in the case.
§ Mr. MACLEANIf the Ministry takes on itself power to put upon a man's 1579 paper, who has been assessed at 80 per cent., that they can alter the assessment to 30 per cent. under a dispensing Warrant, as an act of grace, surely I have the right to ask what dispensing Warrant gives them that power. Why cannot the Minister answer now?
§ Mr. SPEAKERrose—
§ Mr. MACLEANI must press for an answer.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe Minister has said that he cannot answer to-day. The hon. Member cannot press it any further than that now. Colonel Day.
§ Mr. MACLEANOn a point of Order. The answer to this part of my question does not require waiting for files to come from Edinburgh. The Ministry have claimed that they have the right under a dispensing Warrant. I am asking the right hon. Gentleman to state to the House what Warrant gives him power to change an assessment by a medical board into a lower assessment, and to do it as an act of grace.
§ Mr. SPEAKERrose—
§ Mr. MACLEAN[HON. MEMBERS: "Name!"] I want an answer to that question.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe hon. Member must not remain standing when I am on my feet. It is one of the first Rules of this House that, when the Speaker rises, hon. Members must be seated. The hon. Member cannot press his question now. The Minister has stated that he cannot answer without further information. The hon. Member can get that information by repeating the question on a future date. Colonel Day.
§ Mr. MACLEANOn a point of Order. [HON. MEMBERS: "Name!"]
§ Mr. SPEAKERDoes the hon. Member wish to put a point of Order?
§ Mr. MACLEANYes. No one has greater respect for you, Mr. Speaker, than I have. My point of Order is contained in my question, in which I ask
§ regarding a dispensing Warrant. The answer to that does not necessarily mean waiting for a reply from the regional officer in Edinburgh. The Minister ought to be able to reply.
§ Mr. SPEAKERrose—
§ Mr. MACLEANI insist upon an answer being given.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat is not a point of Order.
§ Mr. MACLEANI insist upon an answer.
§ Mr. MACLEANI am very sorry, Mr. Speaker—
§ Mr. SPEAKERI must ask the hon. Member not to persist in disregarding the authority of the Chair. Colonel Day—
§ Mr. MACLEANI am very sorry, Mr. Speaker, but I want a reply from the Minister.
§ Mr. MACLEANWe are not going to be refused information by the right hon. Gentleman.
§ Mr. SPEAKERI must order the hon. Member to withdraw immediately from the Sitting of the House for persistently refusing to obey the Chair. Will the hon. Member please leave the House?
§ Mr. MACLEANI am not leaving the House until I get a reply to my question.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThen I must name the hon. Member to the House for persistently disregarding the authority of the Chair.
§ Motion made, and Question put, "That Mr. Neil Maclean, the Member for the Govan Division of Glasgow, be suspended from the service of the House."—[Sir William Joynson-Hicks.]
§ The House divided: Ayes, 151; Noes, 49.
1581| Division No. 63.] | AYES. | [3.1 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley |
| Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. | Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. | Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish- |
| Albery, Irving James | Astor, Maj. Hn. John J. (Kent, Dover) | Berry, Sir George |
| Alexander, E. E. (Leyton) | Astor, Viscountess | Bethel, A. |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) | Radford, E. A. |
| Blundell, F. N. | Harris, Percy A. | Raine, W. |
| Boothby, R. J. G. | Hartington, Marquess of | Ramsden, E. |
| Bourn, Captain Robert Croft | Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. | Rees, Sir Beddoe |
| Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. | Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle) | Remnant, Sir James |
| Boyd-Carpenter, Major A. | Herbert, S.(York, N. R., Scar. & Wh'by) | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) |
| Brass, Captain W. | Hills, Major John Waller | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) |
| Briant, Frank | Hopkins, J. W. W. | Salmon, Major I. |
| Briggs, J. Harold | Hudson, R. S. (Cumberl'nd, Whiteh'n) | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Hume, Sir G. H. | Sandeman, A. Stewart |
| Brocklebank, C. E. R. | Hurd, Percy A. | Sanders, Sir Robert A. |
| Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. | James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert | Sandon, Lord |
| Brown, Col. D. C. (N'th'l'd., Hexham) | Jephcott, A. R. | Savery, S. S. |
| Burman, J. B. | Joynson-Hicks, Rt. Hon. Sir William | Shaw, Capt. W. W. (Wilts, Westb'y) |
| Campbell, E. T. | Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M. | Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's Univ., Belfst) |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. Sir J.A (Birm., W.) | Kenyon, Barnet | Skelton, A. N. |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) | Kidd, J. (Linlithgow) | Slaney, Major P. Kenyon |
| Chapman, Sir S. | King, Capt. Henry Douglas | Smith-Carington, Neville W. |
| Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. | Knox, Sir Alfred | Smithers, Waldron |
| Colfox, Major Wm. Philip | Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) | Locker-Lampson, Com. O.(Handsw'th) | Sprot, Sir Alexander |
| Cope, Major William | Loder, J. de V. | Stanley, Col. Hon. G. F. (Will'sden, E.) |
| Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islington, N.) | Lougher, L. | Stott, Lieut.-Colonel W. H. |
| Craig, Capt. Rt. Hon. C. C. (Antrim) | Luce, Maj.-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Streatfeild, Captain S. R. |
| Craik, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Lumley, L. R. | Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C. |
| Curzon, Captain Viscount | MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen | Tasker, Major R. Inigo |
| Davies, Dr. Vernon | MacIntyre, Ian | Thom, Lt.-Col. J. G. (Dumbarton) |
| Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) | MacRobert, Alexander M. | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) |
| Davies, Ellis (Denbigh, Denbigh) | Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) |
| Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester) | Margesson, Captain D. | Thomson, Trevelyan (Middlesbro, W.) |
| Dixey, A. C. | Marriott, Sir J. A. R. | Tinne, J. A. |
| Edmondson, Major A. J. | Meyer, Sir Frank | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Elliot, Captain Walter E. | Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) | Turton, Sir Edmund Russborough |
| Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive | Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L.(Kingston-on-Hull) |
| Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith | Nall, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Joseph | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Falle, Sir Bertram G. | Nelson, Sir Frank | Watts, Dr. T. |
| Fenby, T. D. | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Wheler, Major Sir Granville C. H. |
| Foster, Sir Harry S. | Nicholson, Col. Rt. Hn. W. G. (Ptrsf'ld.) | White, Lieut.-Colonel G. Dalrymple |
| Gadie, Lieut.-Colonel Anthony | Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert | Wiggins, William Martin |
| Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. | O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) | Williams, Herbert G. (Reading) |
| Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham | Oman, Sir Charles William C. | Wise, Sir Fredric |
| Glyn, Major R. G. C. | Pennefather, Sir John | Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater) |
| Grace, John | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. | Perkins, Colonel E. K. | Wood, Sir S. Hill-(High Peak) |
| Greene, W. P. Crawford | Perring, William George | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. |
| Gretton, Colonel John | Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome) | |
| Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Power, Sir John Cecil | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Colonel Gibbs and Major Hennessy. |
| Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton | |
| NOES. | ||
| Baker, Walter | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Paling, W. |
| Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) | Hardie, George D. | Potts, John S. |
| Barr, J. | Hayday, Arthur | Purcell, A. A. |
| Batey, Joseph | Hayes, John Henry | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) |
| Cape, Thomas | Henderson, T. (Glasgow) | Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W.R., Elland) |
| Clowes, S. | Hirst, G. H. | Shepherd, Arthur Lewis |
| Cluse, W. S. | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Shiels, Dr. Drummond |
| Compton, Joseph | Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) | Taylor, R. A. |
| Cove, W. G. | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Thurtle, E. |
| Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Day, Colonel Harry | Lawson, John James | Wallhead, Richard C. |
| Dennison, R. | Lee, F. | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline) |
| Gibbins, Joseph | Lunn, William | Welsh. J. C. |
| Gillett, George M. | March, S. | Whiteley, W. |
| Gosling, Harry | Montague, Frederick | Windsor, Walter |
| Greenall, T. | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) | |
| Grundy, T. W. | Oliver, George Harold | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Buchanan and Mr. Kirkwood. |
§ Mr. SPEAKER (addressing Mr. Maclean)The hon. Member will please leave the House.
§ Mr. MACLEANI accept the decision of the House, but the matter does not finish here.
§ The hon. Member then left the House.