WARWICKSHIRE MINERS' ASSOCIATION. THE TIDE HAS TURNED!!

HC Deb 30 July 1926 vol 198 cc2554-602

BADDESLEY COLLIERY: Twelve hundred men stopped work this morning!!

BIRCH COPPICE: Only 50 men turned up for work this morning, and THEY CAME BACK UP THE SHAFT when they found their mates had stayed at home!

Time campaign for unity proceeds successfully everywhere. In time next t we ty-fowr hours Warwickshire men will be 100 per cent. solid again.

Do YOUR PART! Don't undermine your fellows! Show that Warwickshire men have 'guts'.

The printer's name—Walter Lewis—appears at the foot of the circular. Surely the Home Secretary will not say there is anything wrong in that statement?

Mr. REMER

May I ask whether it was true?

Mr. LAWSON

I shall be very pleased to tell the hon. Gentleman whether it is true or not. In the Press, which has been so very jubilant—

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER (Mr. James Hope)

I do not quite see how this is relevant to the Amendment.

Mr. LAWSON

All 1 would say is that there is nothing in the Press about Warwickshire to-day It does not affect the legal position, Here is a circular making a simple statement, and in village after village I had absolute confirmation of the statement that the police were actually hindering its distribution on the Warwickshire side. I addressed a meeting at Nuneaton, and I saw there this leaflet distributed on every hand. The police were there, and this is the circular which they allowed to be distributed:

" MINERS OF WARWICKSHIRE!

Do you realize

That your loss is Cook's gain

that you are being used as cannon fodder

for the Red Push and to save your

Leaders' Faces?

Save your jobs instead.

Mr. Cook is an avowed Communist

Whose admitted intention is to smash British power, and create chaos in Industry.

Don't be victims.

What have you gained during the years which Cook has been misleading you?

Nothing.

What have you lost?—Everything Your Savings, Your Wages, Your Domestic Happiness.

Let Reason guide you."

That is printed by the " Chronicle " Press, Church Street, Nuneaton, and is paid for by the coalowners.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

What is the objection?

Mr. LAWSON

The right hon. Gentleman is very quick in seeing how right that kind of thing is when it is done by the coalowners, but he will be very slow in seeing how wrong it is to suppress an infinitely more simple circular issued on the, men's side. The right hon. Gentleman is courteous as a rule, but it is very difficult to make him see the need for administering the law properly and enabling people to carry out their ordinary duties.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

Does the hon. Member suggest that either of these circulars has been prohibited by the law?

Mr. LAWSON

Yes, I have stated so. The police in village after village in the mining area of Warwickshire have hindered the circulation of this leaflet, and have intimidated men because they have been circulated. If the right hon. Gentleman is not quite sure about that, let me give him a typical case of what has actually happened. The Warwickshire Miners' Association are asking for an inquiry into this business, and they will certainly give him abundance of detail. The police are interfering with men standing in the streets. They are, in fact, the agents of the coalowners purely and simply. A man is standing by himself—not in a group—and the policeman asks him why. I myself saw groups of policemen at every turn, and there is something wrong in that itself. The policeman asks the man standing by himself, " Are you going to work? " The man replies, " No," and the policeman asks him " Why." The man says, " That is my business," and the policeman then says, " Well, get away out of this."

There were half-a-dozen men sitting on their doorsteps. The police evidently thought they were intimidating other men, so they took them to Court under these Regulations. They could not get them under the Regulations, though certainly the Regulations cover almost everything. There is an Army Regulation which makes what is called " dumb insolence " an offence. They could not get them under the Regulations, so they went back to an early Eighteenth Century- Regulation. I can give the right hon. Gentleman the names of these men if he likes. There were three brothers and three others. One- of the men's agents say that they did not speak a word to the blacklegs as they were passing. They were sitting on their doorsteps. and one was playing a mouth-organ. They could not get them the Regulations, so they went hack to an early Eighteenth Century Regulation and they fined all six of them.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

What for?

Mr. BROAD

Because they were on strike.

Mr. LAWSON

Yes, it will be interesting to the right hon. Gentleman to hear what for. They went back to an old Act, and got them for " sitting and besetting." The right hon. Gentleman may himself understand what that means, but it is a kind of offence which the men had not heard of before. I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman how many men there really are in prison in the Warwickshire area, and if he can tell us what proportion they are of the total number of men who have been imprisoned since the general strike. I am certain from what I have heard that there are in prison more of the few thousands of Warwickshire miners than there have been men imprisoned among the whole 150,000 miners in my own county since the general strike stopped. I would almost venture to say that since the general strike there have been as many men put into prison in Warwickshire as there have been in almost all the other mining counties put together.

That is not the worst of it. The worst is the spirit that is prevailing. Here are men, as the " Manchester Guardian " says, in a hostile area, with everything against them. When I saw them I understood something of what my owl people went through in the early part of the nineteenth century. It is common knowledge that in the County of Durham then there were strikes, there were conflicts with the police and with the military, that men went to the scaffold and were sent overseas, that the prisons were filled, and sometimes the Bishops' stables, too; but out of all that emerged leaders and men whose names are to-day revered in the County of Durham. _I began to understand something of the spirit that prevailed in Durham and other industrial districts in this country in the early 19th century. I want to say frankly that I told the people that if I were on the job where there was intimidation, I would certainly get our own people to deal with anyone guilty of it. But because of that, and knowing the type and character of the people, I do ask the right hon. Gentleman, if there has been actual individual conflict, to investigate the whole of the conditions out of which this present spirit has sprung, a spirit of retaliation, and a very bitter spirit which is bad enough in any industrial district, and certainly ought not to prevail in an old-time county like Warwickshire, where the people have had different conditions and different upbringing. I ask the right hon. Gentleman not only to take back these Regulations, which give these people absolute power, as they seem to think, but which places a few thousand miners who are in a hostile country absolutely in their hands.

I want also to ask this question. It is said in Warwickshire that coalowners are sitting upon the benches of magistrates. If that be the case, it ought not to be so. Of course, I know that there may be a Labour man or two, but they are very few. I not only ask the right hon. Gentleman to waive these Regulations, but I ask him, further, Can he not go into the whole of these cases personally? Can he not make investigation into the activities of the police in Warwickshire as compared with other parts of the country? Can he not come to the rescue, of these people, who are a minority in this area, and who are certainly a very fine type of people, and not the ordinary criminal type at all? If the right hoh. Gentleman cannot take steps to protect and succour these people, who, in the minds of all observers who have been there, have been the victims of a very bad situation as the result of these Regulations and of the social pressure—if he cannot take steps to succour and defend them, then I will tell him this: Our people are there now. We have done what we could to keep things right, and will do so. Our people will pour in there day after day and week after week, and we, with any public standing that we may have, will certainly consider it our duty to look after people of this description in order to protect them from the kind of thing which has been going on during the past fortnight.

2.0.P.M

Mr. SHORT

I trust that the right hon. Gentleman will not overlook the appeal which has been made by the hon. and gallant Member for West Dorset (Major Colfox), who expressed in very clear and precise language his opinion that the time had arrived when the conditions prevailing did not justify the continuance of these Regulations; and the evidence submitted by my hon. Friend the Member for Chester-le-Street (Mr. Lawson) indicates the extent to which abuses can arise in connection with the administration of the Regulations. My hon. and learned Friend who moved this Amendment dealt-with the legal aspect of the matter, and quoted well-known cases to justify the arguments he advanced and the policy he enunciated. I will not traverse such dry, legal courses, but will call attention, if I may, to the human aspect of the dispute which gives rise to the proposals of the right. hon. Gentleman. For 13 weeks now we have seen over 1,000,000 men, who work in and about the pits, locked out. divorced from their daily occupation, and I have no doubt that, if we include their families, some 4,000,000 to 4,500,000 people are thereby affected. It is an unprecedented and unexampled period, for at the time when they were locked out, we had over 1,000,000 unemployed, and that figure has now been increased to 1,600,000. The miners are not seeking to improve their economic position; they arc—

Mr. DEPUTY-SPEAKER

These two Regulations refer to matters likely to cause disaffection, and what the hon. Member is now saying cannot be in order upon them.

Mr. SHORT

I do not intend to proceed on that basis, of course. My idea, in making these preliminary remarks, was to indicate the nature of the dispute. It has continued for some 13 weeks, aggravated by extensive and increasing unemployment, the strangulation of our trade, and so forth, and yet the right hon. Gentleman had the greatest possible difficulty in producing any evidence to justify the action he is taking this afternoon. He comes along every month with his parrot-like cry for these Emergency Regulations, including No. 21 and No. 22, which concern the right of public meeting and the holding of processions. These powers, and especially the interference with the right of public meeting and the expression of free speech, import a new psychology into our industrial disputes. They are a measure of coercion and intimidation. They put a limit upon the recognised rights of those involved in the dispute to express their opinions. For instance, the right hon. Gentleman has made some very flagrant statements, involving serious misrepresentations, if may say so, of the position of the miners. He said that miners' leaders said " They would prefer a reduction of wages rather than a lengthening of hours, and why? Because, if the miners got less wages, they would have a better cry for raising further trouble." I cannot think of a statement more calculated to generate heat and passion.It is a direct misrepresentation of the attitude of these men. I suppose that, if one of these men who has only had an ordinary elementary school education, moved by great human impulses, seriously criticises the right hon. Gentleman and indulges in some loose kind of language, the right hon. Gentleman will himself start the machinery to work, and that man will be accused of uttering seditious statements calculated to create a state of riot, disruption and disturbance. The right hon. Gentleman seems to enjoy the advantages of a liberty which, apparently, he is unwilling to extend to other people. On the other hand, the policy of the Government in the importation of coal raises another important question which can give rise to serious criticism, and on which those involved can seriously challenge the political attitude of the Government. It is all a question of free speech and the right of public meeting. The questions I have raised are contingent matters and they arise from the political policy of the Government. They give rise to a great deal of feeling and if those involved, who are not struggling to improve their economic condition, who are simply seeking by passive resistance to maintain that which they enjoyed on 30th April, indulge in severe criticism the right hon. Gentleman invests himself with what I term a legal bludgeon to force them to shut up and maintain a silence which he at any rate has failed to observe. Though the dispute has lasted all this time, involving over a million miners and putting a growing number out of employment., it has been peaceful.

That is not seriously challenged by the right hon. Gentleman, and the figures he produced do not enable him to justify his case. There has been no indication that these people rely upon force to attain their end They are relying upon passive resistance and peaceful persuasion. There has been no attempt at the drilling of a volunteer force. There has been no question of the importation of arms, which the right hon. Gentleman knows something about. There has been little or no disorder throughout the country. It is just an ordinary normal dispute between the employers on the one hand and the coalminers on the other. If the right hon. Gentleman had followed the line that influenced him when he was Financial Secretary to the Treasury, when he was more charming and more courteous than he is now, and when he was lacking in the spirit of antagonism which he seems to generate to-day, we should secure far greater results. I trust he will accept the Amendment, and restore to us the rights and privileges of free speech, and will free the Government from the accusation that it is taking sides in this dispute. It will put the country in a better position, and enable the miners to fight a better battle, and ultimately, I hope, secure a settlement compatible with humanitarian principles and consistent with public honour.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

I am sorry the hon. Member accused me of being less courteous than I used to be when I occupied the position of Financial Secretary. It may be that the position of Financial Secretary brings one less in conflict with the hon. Member and his friends than is the Home Secretary. The Home Secretary has to-day the most unpopular work of any Minister, to administer law and order, and though I have always received very great courtesy from hon. Members opposite, perhaps it is not possible for them to be quite as friendly as they were when I occupied a position which brought me less in contact with them. I endeavour to carry out my duties with as little friction as possible. It really seems to me that a great deal of the complaint against these Regulations and against my conduct, from the Leader of the Opposition down to the last speaker, is not that I have done too much but that I have done too little. He told us everything was quiet. The Leader of the Opposition quoted the figures I have given as to the very small number of cases where these Regulations have been used. If, on the other hand, the police had been provocative, if they had used these powers harshly and gone up and down the country haling men before the Benches and sending them to prison, I should have been able to give a large number of cases and to have said: " There are hundreds of cases under the Regulations and therefore I ask the House to continue them." The Leader of the Opposition himself says there is no need for them because everything is going on so well under them. Prevention is better than cure. If on the other hand I had had a large number of cases under the Regulations the accusation against me would have been that I was a, bloodthirsty person putting people into prison. The attack would have been equally great but of a different character and on different lines. I see the hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for Leith has come in and I hope he will support me in these refutations, because they are in accord with the views of the great Liberal party.

Captain BENN

Does the right hon. Gentleman really intend to repeat that time-worn inaccuracy that the Coalition Government of 1918 to 1922 was a Liberal Government? It is ridiculous.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

It was in essence a Liberal Government. The hon. and gallant Gentleman knows perfectly well that there was a Liberal Prime Minister, one of his numerous leaders. I think I am justified in saying not only what I have done about the Regulations from the Liberal point of view, but it is well known that the Labour party, when quite a different state of affairs existed, told the House quite definitely, when there was a trumpery little strike in the tramway world, that they would issue Regulations. [HON. MEMBERS: " They were never put into operation."] Because the strike collapsed. Here we are dealing with a strike where a million and a quarter men are involved and it has been said 4,000,000 people throughout the country are affected. This is not a small strike in a particular works. It affects the greatest industries throughout the country. The powers which were given to me two months ago I. am not using to any great extent. There has been no necessity to use them because of the excellent spirit between those who are out of work and the police authorities throughout the country. A very little difference, a very little spark may set things alight, and a different feeling may arise.The hon.Member for Chester-le-Street. (Mr. Lawson) has shown us how very quickly there may arise a difference of opinion in regard to the administration of the Regulations, and how very much more trouble may arise than has arisen. I put, it quite definitely to the House, that it is largely because of the spirit in which the Regulations have been acted upon and the known fact that they are there, that there has been so little disturbance in the coal areas throughout the country.

The hon. and learned Member for South-East Leeds (Sir H. Slesser) led the main attack upon the Regulations. He admitted that they were not ultra vires. He said at first that he thought they were outside the purview of the Act, but he admitted later that he thought they were legal. He quoted various philosophers, with whose works I am not so well acquainted as he is. He spoke of the Froudian psychology and Stoic philosophers, but I do not know what that argument had to do with his attack upon these Regulations. If he will forgive me—I am sorry that he is not here—I should like to say that there was very little in his speech. There were reasonable complaints in the speeches of the hon. Member for the Don Valley (Mr. T. Williams) and the hon. Member for Chester-le-Street. The hon. Member for the Don Valley told us that there were large numbers of miners in his own county with an electric spirit in their minds, and that the police must keep the peace. It is the object of the police to keep the peace between the electric-minded miner and other sections of the community.

Mr. T. WILLIAMS

I think I said that in the peculiar circumstances obtaining at the moment the atmosphere would be more or less electric, and that unless the police force were local men, who understand the mentality of the people, things were likely to happen that would not happen in other circumstances.

Sir W. JOYNSON-NECKS

I am dealing with the hon. Member's speech, and quoting it as an argument in favour of the action I am taking. He says that there are electric feelings about. The hon. Member for Chester-le-Street said that there was a very strong feeling among the miners in Warwickshire. I am very anxious that those strong feelings should not burst into flame at any time and create disturbances and serious effects throughout the country, and I think the very existence of these Regulations is a safeguard against that. Any man who desires not to work is entitled to adopt that attitude. He is perfectly entitled to sit with his hands folded and say that he will not work. I want to prevent that feeling, which may get more bitter as weeks go along, bursting out into any kind of attack upon, or intimidation against, those who desire to work, and who are equally entitled to do so if they desire. That is a principle and a. theory recognised by trade- unions. It is my duty to protect the man who does not want to work, who prefers to sit on his own doorstep and not work until he gets the wages to which he thinks he is entitled. He is entitled to take that course, and no attempt will be made by the Government to force a man to work. Equally, I want to be prepared, in case there may be any electric outbreak of any kind which may make difficulties between those who want to exercise their undoubted right not to work, and those who want to exercise their equally undoubted right to work.

The hon. Member for the Don Valley went on to deal with a case where a man was sentenced to three months' imprisonment for a seditious speech, under the provisions of one of these Regulations. I did not gather from the hon. Member's speech that the man was wrongly convicted. What the hon. Member complained of was that I have been enabled under these Regulations to get a man convicted of making a seditious speech, and sentenced to three months' hard labour.

Mr. WILLIAMS

What I suggested was that the speech which this person made would, under ordinary circumstances, and apart from these Regulations, not have been interpreted in the manner it has been, which has resulted in the sentence. I feel that a similar speech made in the absence of these Regulations would not even have come under the ordinary common law.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

The difficulty is in attempting to say what would or would not have happened under a different set of circumstances. The hon. Member knows that speeches are made obviously of a character which may light the flame. Here is one case where. from my point of view, the Regulations were useful.

Mr. WILLIAMS

indicated dissent.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

The hon. Member does not agree with me. At any rate, the Regulation enabled the police to prosecute successfully a man who was making a seditious speech. I cannot expect the hon. Member to agree with me entirely. I want to deal with a remark made by the hon. Member regarding certain magistrates. Whilst the hon. Member was speaking, the Attorney-General came in and sat beside me, and I spoke to him on the subject, I cannot believe that in any number of cases or, even in any case a man who was chairman of a bench which has convicted a certain person, would go and give evidence against the man on his appeal. I have never heard of such a thing before. The hon. Member has been good enough and courteous enough to give me a newspaper report which does seem to imply that that has taken place. I say at once that I will instantly cause inquiries to be made. I will find out what the facts are. I do not want to condemn any man unheard, nor would the hon. Member desire me to do so. I will at once take steps, as I am always prepared to do in cases where, as in this case, names and dates have been given, to inquire into the circumstances, and I will communicate with the hon. Member, as he asked me to do, in regard to what I find out.

The hon. and gallant Member for West Dorset (Major Colfox) made an appeal to me to drop these Regulations. I should always like to please my hon. and gallant Friend, but if he has listened to the tenure of my speech he will probably agree with me that it would be unwise to do so. I do not know what is going to take place in the mining areas or in one or some of them during the next month. The House of Commons will not be in Session, and I think it would be a very grave responsibility upon my shoulders if I were to say to the House that they could safely abrogate these Regulations —such as Regulations 20, 21 and 22— during the coming months. I am not so advised by my advisers that I can do so. I am not so advised by the principal Chief Constables in the districts where there are possibilities of mining troubles, and it would be a responsibility which frankly I confess I am not prepared to take. If I took that responsibility, and if in the course of the next fortnight or three weeks in some district or another grave disturbances were to take place, and if the troops had to be called in, I should never forgive myself, and I do not think the House would forgive me. Names have been mentioned during this Debate, names of ill-omen in the history of trade disputes—Tonypandy, Featherstone and other places where troops were called in. I do not wish to boast—I would rather not boast, at any rate, until all the trouble is over—but I can say as Home Secretary during all these troubles since the 1st May, during the general strike and since, it has not been necessary to call in the military, and I hope sincerely that it will not be necessary.

The hon. Member for Chester-le-Street made several charges against the police in Warwickshire. He said that the miners in that county were intimidated by the police and by the other people in that district. He said they are in a hostile area. That charge cannot be made against me. I think the miners are very unpopular. It has been assumed too much during the last few months that the miners in some of these districts are popular. I do not think the stoppage is popular with the general public at all, at any rate the hon. Member said the miners in Warwickshire were living in a hostile area. I think that is quite true. The non-miners in a community—

Mr. LAWSON

The right hon. Gentleman must not misinterpret what I said. I said that the Warwickshire area is composed of people of various types, and that between them the county families, the farmers and the coalowners have practically control of the police and the Bench.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

I beg the hon. Member's pardon. He will see the OFFICIAL REPORT to-morrow. He spoke of the miners living in a hostile area, in a hostile environment.

Mr. LAWSON

I quoted the " Manchester Guardian."

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

I do not care about the "Manchester Guardian," but I do care for the hon. Member. He said he had been there, that he went down there last Saturday, and that he proposed to tell the House what he had seen with his own eyes. I am prepared to take the hon. Member's statement rather than that of an anonymous con- tributor to the "Manchester Guardian." He made a complaint that the police in this area were helping the coalowners to bully the miners into forcing them back to work, and that at the village meeting which be addressed there was one inspector and two plain clothes constables listening to his remarks. I am not at all surprised that the people of Warwickshire who are not concerned in the mining trouble were angry and annoyed that the hon. Member should go down there in order to stir up trouble. The hon. Member went down to Warwickshire in order to prevent these men going back to work, men who desired to work, and who had gone back of their own accord. He is quite entitled to make speeches in order to keep them out, but he cannot expect to be popular in Warwickshire if he does so. It does not add to his popularity in a neighbourhood like this, where the people want to see the coal stoppage settled and work resumed. The hon. Member must not complain when he makes a hostile speech if he finds .a hostile atmosphere. Quite courteously he wrote to me last night,and gave me notice that he was going to raise this question to-day. He said: I am far from satisfied with the methods of the police in the Warwickshire area and their operation under the Emergency Powers Act. As soon as I was able I got on the telephone this morning to Warwickshire, and I found that there has been no single prosecution under these Regulations in that area. There have been one or two prosecutions under the. old law.

Mr. LAWSON

How many?

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

The figures I have are three or four. I must tell the hon. Member that I think his statement is a grave exaggeration. I will get the facts. The notice he gave to me was in reference to the Emergency Regulations, and as I say there has been no single prosecution under them, no meeting has been stopped, no procession prohibited, and no conflicts with the crowds or pickets.

Mr. LAWSON

There have been no meetings. But half-a-dozen men could not stand about in any village.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

Oh, no. That is not the case. The hon. Member wrote me a formal letter to say: I am far from satisfied with the methods of the police in Warwickshire, and their operations under the Emergency Powers Act. And we are discussing those to-day. We are not discussing the old Act of Parliament, or the ordinary acts of the police. We are discussing whether the police have done wrong, and the inference is that they are likely to do wrong if these powers are continued. So far as this particular county is concerned, where the hon. Member has been himself and given the House all those lurid details, no one has been prosecuted, no meeting stopped, and no collisions with the police.

Mr. LAWSON

How many people are in prison?

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

If the hon. Member will put down a question on that point I will endeavour to get him the information. I will send at once to Warwickshire, and get a full return of the large numbers which he has told the House to-day are in prison. It is not pleasant for me to have to press these Regulations on the House, but I have a grave responsibility to maintain law and order in such a way as to prevent conflict and bloodshed. I stand on the horns of a dilemma. If I do too little, there may be trouble: if I do too much, I am equally liable to be shot at by hon. Members opposite.

Mr. LAWSON

May I ask what reply the right hon. Gentleman has to the complaint that the superintendent of police stopped the distribution of a certain leaflet which was sent out on behalf of the. Warwickshire miners. He was quick enough to say that the leaflet against the Miners' Federation was quite lawful, but he did not give us any answer as to whether the other leaflet was equally lawful and why it has been suppressed. [s he going to allow the police to bully these people as they have been during the last few weeks?

Sir W. JOYNSON - HICKS

No, certainly not. I believe the hon. Members' charges against the police are gravely exaggerated; I do not want to use a more forcible term than that. It is quite impossible for me at. half-past two to reply to a speech made by the hon. Member at half-past one as to what action the police took in regard to a certain leaflet. If he had given me notice of this particular point, I would have made inquiries, and if he will put down a question, I will try to get him all the) information I can before the House adjourns. I do not shirk any answer. He can put down any number of questions, and I will do my utmost to get full answers to all of them.

Mr. LAWSON

rose—

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

The hon. Gentleman warns me that there might be trouble in Warwickshire. It is the whole essence of my policy to prevent trouble. I will inquire most fully into the statements that he has made. I have already promised that I will inquire into the charges made by the hon. Member for Don Valley. The hon. Member for Chester-le-Street has made very grave charges. I do not complain that he has made them here. This is the proper place in which to make them; it is far better to make them here than at a public meeting, for here they can be dealt with. I will make the fullest inquiries into all the charges, and I will endeavour to give him a full answer on Tuesday, or on Wednesday on the Motion for the Adjournment. I ask the House to come to the conclusion that in all the circumstances of the case these Regulations during the past three months have worked well in preventing trouble. They have worked well in so much as they have not been used in many cases. The essence of a preventive Regulation is not the number of cases sent to prison, but the number of cases not sent to prison under it. As long as I have these Regulations I shall continue to administer them in—I think I may say—the friendly way in which they have been administered, subject to the complaints made by the hon. Members, into which I will inquire. If the House gives me the Regulations, the House may be satisfied that they will be used in the way in which they have been used in the past three months, namely, with the utmost endeavour to prevent trouble, and, above all, to prevent serious conflicts in the mining areas.

Captain BENN

I wish to make a few remarks on the Home Secretary's speech. I pass over at once the smaller debating points about what other parties have done or are alleged to have done. It is not my place to defend the late Labour Government, though they never issued any such Regulations as these. There was a Proclamation made, but no Regulations were issued, and the Home Secretary cannot now say what Regulations the Labour Government would have issued. As to the Liberal Government, the allegation is so flimsy that I shall not he expected to deal with it. The particular charge against me is of no importance. The Home Secretary has a very heavy duty placed on him. He must keep public order; it is his special duty to do that. What he has to convince us of is that the introduction of these special and very objectionable powers is really necessary. There have been many trade disputes in the past in connection with coal and transport, and before the War there was a great surge of industrial trouble. Those troubles were settled without Regulations of this kind. Let us turn to Warwickshire, which the Home Secretary singled out as a place where there was an atmosphere of hostility. He says that there he has not instituted, or found it necessary to institute, a single prosecution under these Regulations. Does not that prove that the ordinary law is quite sufficient and that these emergency powers are unnecessary? The whole of his dialectical success in that matter is based on the fact that he has been able to operate under the ordinary law. I would ask the Home Secretary a question. Will he tell us exactly what is his position in regard to the institution of these prosecutions? I am not a lawyer. Is the Home Secretary responsible for instituting prosecutions under the Emergency Powers Act?

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

The prosecutions are, of course, in the local police court, but I have to admit responsibility in this House for the action taken under the Regulations.

Captain BENN

I do not understand. The Home Secretary said that if he instituted many prosecutions he would be charged with acting in a violent way. Is he the person responsible for directing the police?

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

The police, of course, are in close touch with the Home Secretary and the Home Office. The police have to carry out their duties, and if, for instance, they want more reinforcements they have to come to me for them. The prosecutions are instituted by the police. Although, as a matter of fact, I have not issued a single prosecution, I am responsible for the action taken under these Regulations, or, perhaps, it would be more correct to say that if a great number of prosecutions had been issued I should be responsible, although they had not been issued by me. I should be taunted by the hon. and gallant Gentleman. Because a few prosecutions had taken place, it would not be the police who would suffer, but my unfortunate self.

Captain BENN

The Home Secretary makes a boast that the fact that many prosecutions have not been instituted is a credit to himself.

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

I do not want to interrupt the hon. and gallant Gentleman again. I was not putting a feather in my own cap. I repeatedly stated the method by which these Regulations have been carried out. That, I think, is a satisfactory thing. All through the country, from the Home Office down to the smallest police administration, these Regulations have been administered in a friendly way, and there have been few prosecutions.

Captain BENN

The answer seems to me to be very unsatisfactory. In effect the Home Secretary says, " Look how I have administered the Regulations! I have instituted few prosecutions. If many had been instituted I should have been blamed. My fingers itched to get the hon. Member for North Battersea."

Sir W. JOYNSON-HICKS

The hon. Member for North Battersea (Mr. Saklatvala) was not prosecuted under these Regulations at all.

Captain BENN

That is perfectly immaterial. The right hon. Gentleman does not seem to me to clear up the point as to how far the institution of these prosecutions is a judicial act on the part of someone, and how far the prosecutions are due directly or indirectly to the supervision or influence of the Home Secretary. That is the point I want to make clear. There was a great Debate in 1924, in which it was alleged that the Government had interfered with a political prosecution, and all the right hon. Gentlemen opposite rose in their places and declared that this was corrupting the fount of public justice. The Home Secretary comes here and boasts that not many prosecutions have been instituted owing to his own benevolent attitude. My own feeling is that one of the worst features of these Regulations is that they do introduce political influence into judicial proceedings [HON. MEMBERS:" No "] Certainly they do. I leave hon. Gentlemen who take the opposite view to explain it. That is how it appears to me. Let me put one further question. The right hon. Gentleman has abolished juries. In the absence of a jury to protect the interest of the accused, this House, as the great inquest of the nation, may be considered a jury. Would the right hon. Gentleman consider this request? Will he make a return, giving the words for which people have been convicted for causing sedition or disaffection? I do not think that is an unreasonable request. In such cases the newspapers merely state that a man was prosecuted for an offence under the Emergency Powers Act. I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, for the benefit of Members of the House, he would consider issuing at some suitable time a return showing in each of these prosecutions or convictions the precise words for which a conviction was obtained.

Mr. MARCH

A month ago when we were discussing the continuation of the Emergency Powers Regulations, I made a statement as to the manner in which the police had deliberately provoked a disturbance in the division which I have the honour to represent. I then stated that the police had made a baton charge on a number of innocent people, injuring many, and that they had made an attack on a club and batoned a number of men inside the club. The Home Secretary then charged me with omitting to mention that the Town Clerk of Poplar and I had interviewed him in regard to this matter and that we had declined to leave with him a number of statements which had been taken from people in the district regarding the occurrence. The right hon. Gentleman then asked how it was possible for him to deal with the matter if he did not get these statements. Since then, we have prevailed upon the local authority to send in those statements. They have been sent in now for over a fortnight and are still under consideration and, in the meantime, the police are very busy interrogating people.

One of those injured by the police in the baton charge is the Rev. John Groser, who was asking the police to refrain from interfering with the people when they knocked him down. Two or three days after my previous statement in this House, two persons in a car, who were supposed to have come from Whitehall, arrived at this gentleman's house at one o'clock in the morning. They knocked him up and told him he was wanted at once at Whitehall by the Commissioner of Police and when he asked what for, they said, " We understand you have made a statement that you were injured by the police in the baton charge." He refused to go with them at that hour and they then told him that lie must be at Whitehall by 10 o'clock that morning. Luckily for him the door of his house was on a chain which he did not undo, thus preventing these men from pushing the door wide open. Instead of going to Whitehall he telephoned, and the people at Whitehall said that they knew nothing at all about the matter. [Laughter.] Hon. Members opposite who are such great upholders of the constitution and of law and order may laugh, but there is not much to laugh at in this sort of thing. Probably this was a hoax by some of the super-patriotic people who believe in law and order, so long as it suits themselves.

I want to know if the Home Secretary, having received the statements to which I have referred, will either receive a deputation upon this matter or hold an inquiry into the conduct of the police in driving through an assembly of 400 people in a lorry at the rate of 10 to 12 miles an hour and then proceeding to baton the people. That meeting had been in progress for at least three-quarters of an hour when the occurrence took place, and no complaint had been made by the inspector in charge or by any of the police. We have heard from the hon. and learned Member for Argyllshire (Mr. Macquisten) about " angels of peace," but supporters of this Government need make no references of that kind to other people. This Government have used the Army and the Navy and have also shown themselves to be " angels of peace." We have had " angels of peace " in our district, and I was surprised to hear the Home Secretary's statement as to the use of the military. We saw battalions of them being paraded in the East India Dock Road and all round the wharves, and when the convoys went up the road there were armoured cars and tanks and Lewis guns. [HON. MEMBERS: " Hear, hear! "] Hon. Members applaud that statement, but the Home Secretary would try to make them believe and make the public believe that such things did not happen. We were also blessed with a large importation of foreign police. [HON. MEMBERS: " Oh! "] They were foreign to Poplar at all events. We had foot police and horse police, and they were not satisfied with parading up and down the streets and roads, but they went across the pavements and chased people from the doors of the houses. [Laughter.] Hon. Members opposite seem to like this kind of thing, but we do not like it and we do not like paying for it.

It would be interesting to know how the police who were imported into that district got the amount of refreshments which seems to have been available. It. would be interesting to know what was the bill in our district and in Limehouse. We claim that our people were so quiet during that fortnight that the police had no eases at all. There was no disturbance; the police had not even a job or two to do, and on that particular day when the strike was declared off by the Trades Union Council, they had plenty of refreshments in at the back of Poplar Police Station, and they were well livened up to go out and charge the people. We are not prepared to submit to that kind of thing without protest, and we ask for an inquiry into the conduct of the police on that occasion.

Mr. PALING

I understand the Home Secretary has promised to make inquiry into a statement by the hon. Member for Don Valley (Mr. T. Williams). At the time that statement was made the evidence relating to it was not here, but I have since been at the trouble of finding the newspaper in which the report of the case appears, and I propose to read a short extract from it. This is in relation to 15 men from Armthorpe whose appeal was heard last Tuesday. I quote from the report in the " Sheffield Daily Independent " of Wednesday, 28th July: The chairman of the Bench when the men were convicted quoted from his notes of Martin's evidence"— Martin was one of the appellants. In this evidence Martin told witness and the other magistrates that they had received instructions from their council of action to stop all traffic except C.W.S. Martin said that 200 or 300 of them set out, and it was their idea to do it in a quiet manner. Ma. NEAL (Counsel for Appellants): Rather unusual for a magistrate to come and give evidence in a case in which he was chairman, is it not? WITNESS: It is the first time I have been asked to do it. I suggest that even that was not quite enough for the chairman of the magistrates because, in face of that and having his attention called to what was certainly a strange procedure, on the next day another appellant, who had also been charged in the same court at Doncaster, was given two or three months or fined £50, I am not sure which. The chairman gave evidence against this man.

Mr. BANKS

Did this chairman of the bench who gave evidence, besides giving evidence, adjudicate upon the case?

Mr. PALING

No. On the appeal being heard at the Leeds Quarter Sessions he was there giving evidence against these people. He had adjudicated first, of course, but not at the Quarter Sessions. There is another question with regard to this into which I would like the Home Secretary to make inquiries. At the same Quarter Sessions Mr. Waugh, opening the case for the Crown, said he had seen a letter from the Lord Chancellor—I am reading from the " Sheffield Daily Independent ": In which lie said that any magistrate who had any pecuniary interest in the case and who sat upon the Appeal was doing an illegal act. Any magistrate who adjudicated at the Doncaster hearing was disqualified. He was instructed that magistrates who were members of the miners' branches who had contributed funds for the appeal and who were therefore interested in the case should not adjudicate in this ease. The CHAIRMAN I am sure the magistrates will appreciate what has been said. A few of the magistrates thereupon took no part in the case beyond that of spectators. It appears to me that this was directed almost entirely at members of the miners' branches. Section 103, paragraph (2) of the Coal Mines Act, 1911, reads as follows: Where proceedings are taken before a a Court of Summary Jurisdiction in respect of an offence against this Act alleged to have been committed in, or with reference to a mine, a person who is the owner, agent, or manger of any mine, or a person employed in a mine, or the father, son, or brother, or father-in-law, son-in-law, or brother-in-law, of such owner, agent, manager, or person, or who is an officer of any Association of persons so employed, or who is a check-weigher appointed under the Coal Mines Regulations Act, 1887 to 1905, or who is a director of a company which is the owner of a mine, shall not, except with the consent of both parties to the case, act as a member of the court. 3.0 P.M

I would like to ask the Home Secretary, as I am suspicious that this was directed against the members of the miners' branches, whether he could make inquiry into this case and see whether all the other persons mentioned, either mineowners, royalty owners, or other people interested in mines were asked to withdraw from the case also? Surely this Regulation relates to persons who are either directly or indirectly concerned with the management and ownership of mines, whether as shareholders or in any other capacity. If the Home Secretary can assure us on that point he will be able to dispel some of the doubts in our minds. I would like to ask him, further, who is responsible for giving the evidence or making allegations or giving information to the Lord Chancellor about Justices of the Peace who have been connected with this strike business, especially with the general strike? I had a case brought to my own notice in which a magistrate was accused of being a member of the Council of Action. It was not true and he wrote back to the Lord Chancellor to say so and apparently his answer satisfied the Lord Chancellor. I would like to ask the Home Secretary if any instructions have been given, either from the Lord Chancellor or from himself or from anyone else, that inquiries should be made as to what these Labour magistrates have been doing during the strike or during the lock-out and who the people are who have been giving evidence against them. I ask him whether he can assure us on this side of the House that the dice are not loaded against us.

Question put, "That those words be there inserted."

The House divided: Ayes, 87: Noes, 222.

Division No. 417.]	AYES.	[3.3 p.m.
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro')	Groves, T.	Saklatvala, Shapurji
Ammon, Charles George	Grundy, T. W.	Salter, Dr. Alfred
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston)	Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton)	Scurr, John
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery)	Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil)	Sexton, James
Barr, J.	Hardie, George D.	Shaw, Rt, Hon. Thomas (Preston)
Batty, Joseph	Hayes, John Henry	Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith)	Hirst, G. H.	Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Bondfield, Margaret	Hirst, W. (Bradford, South)	Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W.	Hudson, S. H. (Huddersfield)	Slesser, Sir Henry H.
Broad, F. A.	John, William (Rhondda, West)	Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)
Bromley, J.	Johnston, Thomas (Dundee)	Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley)
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute)	Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)	Stamford, T. W.
Buchanan, G	Kelly, W. T.	Stephen, Campbell
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel	Kenyon, Barnet	Sutton, J. E.
Charleton, H. C.	Lawrence, Susan	Taylor, R. A.
Cove, W. G.	Lawson, John James	Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby)
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities)	Lee, F.	Thurtle, Ernest
Dalton, Hugh	Lindley, F. W.	Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P.
Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale)	Lowth, T.	Vlant, S. P.
Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton)	MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon)	Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Day. Colonel Harry	March, S.	Westwood, J.
Dennison, R.	Morris, R. H.	Whiteley, W.
Duncan, C.	Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)	Williams, Dr. J. H. (Lianelly)
Dunnico, H.	Naylor, T. E.	Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Carro-Jones, Captain G. M.	Palin, John Henry	Windsor, Walter
Gardner, J. P.	Paling, W.	Wright, W.
Gosling, Harry	Pethick-Lawrence, F. W.	Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne)	Ponsonby, Arthur
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan)	Potts, John S.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool)	Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)	Mr. T. Kennedy and Mr. Charles Edwards.
NOES.
Albery, Irving James	Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D,	Hacking, Captain Douglas H.
Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool,W. Derby)	Cockerill, Brig,-General Sir G. K.	Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry
Applin, Colonel R. V. K.	Colfox, Major William Phillips	Harrison, G. J. C.
Apsley, Lord	Conway, Sir W. Martin	Hartington, Marquess of
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W.	Cope, Major William	Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington)
Atholl, Duchess of	Craig, Ernest (Chester, Crewe)	Hawke, John Anthony
Atkinson, C.	Craig, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Headiam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley	Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H.	Henderson, Capt. R.R. (Oxf'd, Henley)
Balfour, George (Hampstead)	Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick)	Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle)
Bainlel, Lord	Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro)	Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P.
Banks, Reginald Mitchell	Cunliffe, Sir Herbert	Hennessy, Major J. R. G.
Barclay-Harvey, C. M.	Davidson, J. (Hert'd, Hemel Hempst'd)	Herbert, S. (York, N.R., Scar. & Wh'by)
Barnett, Major Sir Richard	Davies, Dr. Vernon	Hills, Major John Walter
Barnston, Major Sir Harry	Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset,Yeovll)	Hopkins. J. W. W.
Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.)	Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester)	Hopkinson, Sir A. (Eng. Universities)
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake)	Dawson, sir Philip	Hore-Bellsha, Leslie
Bennett, A. J.	Eden, Captain Anthony	Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N)
Berry, Sir George	Edmondson, Major A. J.	Hudson, R.S. (Cumberl'nd, Whiteh'n)
Betterton, Henry B.	Elliot, Major Walter E.	Hume, Sir G. H.
Blundell, F. N.	Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.)	Huntingfield, Lord
Boothby, R. J. G.	Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South)	Hurst, Gerald B.
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft	Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.)	Hutchison,G.A.Clark (Midl'n & P'bl's)
Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W.	Everard, W. Lindsay	illffe, Sir Edward M.
Boyd-Carpenter, Major Sir A. B.	Fairfax, Captain J. G.	Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Rt. Hon. F. S.
Briggs, J. Harold	Falle, Sir Bertram G.	Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen't)
Brittain, Sir Harry	Fanshawe, Commander G. D.	Joynson-Hicks, Rt. Hon. Sir William
Brocklebank, C. E. R.	Fermoy, Lord	Kindersley, Major G. M.
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I.	Fielden, E. B.	King, Captain Henry Douglas
Broun-Lindsay, Major H.	Ford, Sir P. J.	Knox, Sir Alfred
Buckingham, Sir H.	Forrest, W.	Lamb, J. O.
Bullock, Captain M.	Foxcroft, Captain C. T.	Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R.
Burton, Colonel H. W.	Fraser. Captain Ian	Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt, Hon. Sir Philip
Butler, Sir Geoffrey	Galbraith, J. F. W.	Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley)
Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward	Ganzonl, Sir John	Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green)
Campbell, E. T.	Gates, Percy	Loder, J. de V.
Cautley, Sir Henry S.	Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham	Lougher, L.
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City)	Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John	Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere
Cazalet, Captain Victor A.	Glyn, Major R. G. C.	Luce, Maj.-Gen. sir Richard Harman
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston)	Grant, Sir J. A.	MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood)	Grattan-Doyle, Sir N.	Macdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness)
Charleris, Brigadier-General J.	Greene, W. P. Crawford	Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.)
Ghristie, J. A.	Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London)	McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus
Churchman, Sir Arthur C.	Grotrian, H. Brent	MacIntyre, Ian
Clayton, G. C.	Gunston, Captain D. W.	McLean, Major A.
McNeill, Rt. Hon. Ronald John	Raine, W.	Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H.
Macoulsten, F. A.	Ramsden, E.	Tasker, Major R. Inigo
Mac Robert, Alexander M.	Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington)	Templeton, W. P.
Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel	Reid, D. D. (County Down)	Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South)
Makins, Brigadier-General E.	Remer, J. R.	Tinne, J. A.
Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn	Remnant, Sir James	Titchfield, Major the Marquess of
Margesson, Captain D.	Rentoul, G. S.	Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Marriott. Sir J. A. R.	Rhys, Hon. C. A. U.	Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P.
Meller, R. J.	Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y)	Wallace, Captain D. E.
Merriman, F. B.	Ropner, Major L.	Warner, Brigadier-General W. W.
Meyer, Sir Frank	Rye. F G.	Waterhouse, Captain Charles
Moles, Thomas	Salmon, Major I.	Watson. Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
Monsell, Eyres, Cam. Rt. Hon. B. M.	Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)	Wells, S. R.
Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr)	Sandeman, A. Stewart	White, Lieut.-Col Sir G. Dalrymple
Moore, Sir Newton J.	Sanders, Sir Robert A.	Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
Moore-Brabazon, Lieut. Col. J. T. C.	Sandon, Lord	Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)
Moreing, Captain A. H.	Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustava D.	Wilson. R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield)
Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter)	Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down)	Windsor-Clive. Lieut.-Colonel George
Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge)	Skelton, A. N.	Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Nuttall, Ellis	Slaney, Major P. Kenyan	Wise, Sir Fredric
O'Connor, T. J. (Bediord, Luton)	Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)	Wolmer. Viscount
O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Hugh	Smith-Carington, Neville W.	Womersley, W. J.
Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William	Smithers, Waldron	Wood, E. (Chester, Stalyb'ge & Hyde)
Pennefather, Sir John	Spender-Clay, Colonel H.	Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.).
Penny, Frederick George	Sprot, Sir Alexander	Wood, Sir S. Hill- (High Peak)
Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome)	Stanley, Col. Hon. G.F.(Will'sden, E.)	Woodcock, Colonel H. C.
Pitcher, G.	Streatfelld, Captain S. R.	Worthington-Evans. Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Pilditch, Sir Philip	Strickland, Sir Gerald	Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Power, Sir John Cecil	Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Price, Major C. W. M.	Styles, Captain H. Walter	TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Radford, E. A.	Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser	Captain Viscount Curzon and Lord Stanley.

Mr. KELLY

I beg to move, in line 2, after "1926," to insert the words, "other than Regulation 33."

We have heard from the Horne Secretary to-day that he rather flatters himself that the quietness in the country, as he termed the good order of the community, has been brought about because he has these Regulations upon which to act, and that the people of the country have troubled themselves to read through the various Regulations. I want to ask the Home Secretary, especially seeing the hour at which we have arrived, what is the justification for keeping in operation this Regulation 33, under which any police constable may, without warrant, arrest any person who is suspected of being guilty of an offence against these Regulations. Why is it that they are placing on the shoulders of the constables throughout the country the responsibility for arresting people who are suspected, when no indication is given to them as to how they are to arrive at a conclusion? If they happen to suspect an individual, then, no matter who that individual is, they may without warrant, arrest that person. It is a sorry day for this country when a Home Secretary and a Government are prepared to make such Regulations.

Not only may the police arrest a person, but power is given to a constable to break into, by force, premises in which it is suspected that a breach of the Regulations may be committed. I remember one ease in the early days of May, when an informer—and we all know that informers have to report matters, whether true or not, in order to justify their position and retain their job—reported to Scotland Yard that a particular trade union office was being used for the purpose of drilling a reserve force. One of the higher officials of Scotland Yard attended at that, office, and was surprised when he saw the premises, and realised that there was not accommodation even for the typewriting machines which were required for the work of that trade union. This Regulation encourages the worst type there is in any country—the secret service and the informer. [An HON. MEMBER: "Like Russia!"] Yes, exactly like Russia. The secret service man and the informer are the worst type that can be found in any country.

We had an example of it during the War, when we found all types of people sending to the War Office information respecting various individuals, which afterwards proved to be untrue, though before they could prove their innocence many of the people had suffered as a result of the work of these informers. Regulation 33 enables these informers to engage still in their despicable work. For some reason the Home Office has decided that if it suspects any newspaper, or any journal of a trade union, of being about to issue some statement in connection with the miners' dispute which would be a breach of the Regulations, then if it is not a registered newspaper the police may enter by force and remove not only the paper but the machinery or parts of the machinery. In the case of a registered newspaper, the newspaper proprietors of this country, who are able to dictate too much to the Government, have a protection in the sense that a police constable may not enter its offices unless he has the permission of the Secretary of State. The friends of the Government on the newspapers have that amount of protection; but trade union journals and other papers have not the same protection.

Then we find that any machine which may be used for the purpose of communicating information may be taken, and under this Regulation the Government have allowed officials not only to seize and detain typewriting machines, but to dispose of them as they think fit. We know that in one raid typewriting machines were moved from place to place. I am sure this is the first time in the history of this country that anyone has suggested that a typewriting machine is an instrument which we need be afraid of and must seize for fear it should be responsible for a breach of the Regulations. Not only that, but a constable may search any person whom he suspects, and he may search any vehicle which be suspects is engaged upon anything which he thinks is prejudicial to public safety. Even with all the fears which we know animate the members of the Government, I think it is absurd to ask for a continuance of these Regulations. The members of the Government seem to me to go about in fear and trembling, and every night suspect that there is somebody in their bedroom of whom they seem to be afraid. [HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw!"] I am informed that there are certain members of the Government who are afraid of Communists or Bolshevists, and they are afraid at night that their homes might be invaded by these people. I ask that these Regulations should not be persisted in.

Mr. WESTWOOD

I beg to second the Amendment.

The Regulation we are discussing is one of the least defensible of the whole of these Regulations. I think we have come to a bad pass when the liberties of the people have to be placed in the keeping of police constables who have the right of arrest simply on suspicion. We have come to a bad pass when the police of Warwickshire have the right under these Regulations to search every miner to see if he has got any Russian gold in his possession. As a Member of this House I wish to protest against the right of a police constable to arrest any person if he merely suspects him, because that is opposed to the whole of the traditions connected with the British judicial system. I think it is quite wrong to give a police constable the right to arrest a person merely on suspicion.

But there is something worse so far as this particular Regulation is concerned. This Regulation was originally passed in this House because we were in the midst of a general strike. That strike ceased many weeks ago, and therefore the need for these Regulations has long since passed away. These Regulations are so antiquated that those responsible for printing them and preparing them seem to have forgotten that we have now got a Secretary of State for Scotland because they contain a provision that "The Secretary for Scotland " shall be substituted for "a Secretary of State." These Regulations were prepared 12 weeks ago. We have now a Secretary of State for Scotland, and this paragraph 5 of Regulation 33 is to-day altogether unnecessary. The whole of the Regulations are unnecessary, but this particular Regulation, if possible, is more unnecessary than any of the others, and, in the interests of British liberty and believing that no police constable ought to have the right to arrest anyone merely on suspicion, I have much pleasure in seconding the Amendment.

Captain BENN

I did not intend to speak, but I cannot imagine that there is to be no reply.

The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Captain Hacking)

As no new points have been made at all during the Debate, and as the only speech I could deliver has been delivered on many occasions, I thought that hon. Members, especially on a Friday afternoon, would much prefer to be busy on other occupations than listen- ing to me; but, seeing that hon. Members desire to have a speech, I will do my best to answer the one real material point which has been made by the hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. Kelly). I think he said that there was a proviso in Regulation 33 in connection with registered newspapers. I will read that part of the proviso to him: Provided that where the alleged offence is an offence in connection with a registered newspaper, the powers conferred by this paragraph of this Regulation shall not be exercised except with the consent of a Secretary of State. I think he took exception to that paragraph, because he inferred that it was an indication, if not more than an indication, that we took these powers to protect ourselves. This is the first time that I have been given to understand that the Labour party have no registered newspapers. I thought, for example, that the "Daily Herald" was a registered newspaper. [HON. MEMBERS: "It is."] We deal with these Regulations absolutely impartially, and not only one side but both sides of the House have registered newspapers. Yet, this is a proviso which, in the hon. Member's opinion, is welcomed from our point of view. He ought to consider it equally welcome from their point of view.

Colonel DAY

You ought to have operated it against the "British Gazette."

Captain HACKING

I should be out of order if I discussed the "British Gazette," and in any case that subject has been fairly well thrashed out in previous Debates. The only reason it is necessary to retain this particular Regulation is that there may be certain ill-disposed people, not necessarily miners or people interested in this dispute, who may be inclined to stir up trouble. This is one of the most indispensable Regulations to deal with an emergency, and, although I admit that it is a great power to possess, the Government feel that they would be sacrificing too much if they had in any way to relax the powers which are given them in Regulation 33.

Captain BENN

Has anyone ever heard British rights disposed of in such a way? [Interruption.] Anybody—I am not sure that he need be a constable— who considers that some person is going to do something that is not defined, can arrest him, and the hon. and gallant Gentleman says it is a Friday afternoon, and explains that this has nothing to do with the miners—

Captain HACKING

also said that, as this case has been answered so frequently before, I did not think it desirable to waste the time of the House by repeating the arguments.

Captain BENN

The hon. and gallant Gentleman says he does not think it desirable to waste the time of the House in explaining why they should filch away one of the most valuable—

Captain HACKING

I said I did not think it desirable to waste the time of the House by repeating arguments which had been put forward before.

Captain BENN

What argument has ever been put forward before? The Home Secretary never mentioned the matter to-day. I certainly have no desire to take up time, and our ease requires no putting, but I say that this indicates that this thing is becoming perpetual. The hon. and gallant Gentleman says that it has nothing to do with the miners' strike, but that it is because certain ill-disposed people may be inclined to do something. Then why not take the power permanently? Why not have done with all this humbug, and say that you intend to invade the privileges which people have—[Interruption.]

Captain HACKING

The hon. and gallant Member is misquoting me. I said during this emergency.

Captain BENN

Ill-disposed people will be there after the emergency.

Captain HACKING

Yes, but they have not the same opportunity.

Captain BENN

That is how the hon. and gallant Gentleman defends the putting in of these powers. Perhaps, in my sincerity and conviction, I may speak with too much excitement—[Interruption]—but I can assure the hon. and gallant Gentleman that many people in this country, not members of the Labour party, regard with very grave concern the taking away of fundamental rights of the citizen, and especially the flippant way in which that is defended in a sentence by an underling from the Home Office. [HON. MEMBERS: "Withdraw!"]

Question put, "That those words be there inserted."

The House divided: Ayes, 87; Noes, 233.

Division No. 418.]	AYES.	[3.32 p.m.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West)	Grundy, T. W.	Scurr, John
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro')	Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton)	Sexton, James
Ammon, Charles George	Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvll)	Shaw, Rt, Hon. Thomas (Preston)
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bliston)	Hardie, George D.	Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Barr, J.	Hirst, G. H.	Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Batey, Joseph	Hirst, W. (Bradford, South)	Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith)	Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield)	Sitch, Charles H.
Bondfield, Margaret	John, William (Rhondda, West)	Slesser, Sir Henry H.
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W.	Johnston, Thomas (Dundee)	Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhilthe)
Broad. F. A.	Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)	Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley)
Bromley, J.	Kelly, W. T.	Snell, Harry
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute)	Kennedy, T.	Stamford, T. W.
Buchanan, G.	Lawrence, Susan	Stephen, Campbell
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel	Lawson, John James	Sutton, J. E.
Charleton, H. C.	Lee, F.	Taylor, R. A.
Cove, W. G.	Lindley, F. W.	Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby)
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities)	Lowth, T.	Thurtle, Ernest
Dalton, Hugh	MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon)	Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P.
Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale)	March, S.	Viant, S. P.
Day, Colonel Harry	Morris, R. H.	Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Dennison, R.	Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)	Westwood, J.
Duncan, C.	Naylor, T. E.	Whiteley, W.
Dunnico, H.	Palin, John Henry	Williams, Dr. J. H. (Lianelly)
Garro-Jones, Captain G. M.	Paling, W.	Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Gardner, J. P.	Pethick-Lawrence, F. W.	Windsor, Walter
Gosling, Harry	Ponsonby, Arthur	Wright, W.
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne)	Potts, John S.	Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan)	Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, pontypool)	Saklatvala, Shapur	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Groves, T.	Salter, Dr. Alfred	Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. Hayes.
NOES.
Albery, Irving James	Christie, J. A.	Goff, Sir Park
Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W.Derby)	Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer	Grant, Sir J. A.:
Applin, Colonel R. V. K.	Churchman, Sir Arthur C.	Grattan-Doyle, Sir N.
Apsley, Lord	Clayton, G. C.	Greene, W. P. Crawford
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W.	Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D.	Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London)
Atholl, Duchess of	Colfox, Major William Phillips	Crotrian, H. Brent
Atkinson, C.	Conway, Sir W. Martin	Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley	Cope, Major William	Gunston, Captain D. W.:
Balfour, George (Hampstead)	Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islington, N.)	Hacking, Captain Douglas H.
Bainlel, Lord	Craig, Ernest (Chester, Crewe)	Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.)
Banks, Reginald Mitchell	Cralk, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry:
Barclay-Harvey, C. M.	Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick)	Harrison, G. J. C.
Barnett, Major Sir Richard	Crookshank,Cpt. R. (Lindsey, Gainsbro)	Hartington, Marquess of
Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.)	Cunliffe, sir Herbert	Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington)
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake)	Curzon, Captain Viscount	Hawke, John Anthony
Bennett, A. J.	Davidson, J.(Hertf'd, Hemel Hempst'd)	Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M.
Berry, Sir George	Davies, Dr. Vernon	Henderson, Capt. R.R. (Oxf'd, Henley)
Betterton, Henry B.	Davies. Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil)	Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle)
Boothby, R. J. G.	Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester)	Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P.
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft	Dawson, Sir Philip	Hennessy, Major J. R. G.
Bowyer, Captain G. E. W.	Eden, Captain Anthony	Herbert. S. (York, N.R., Scar. & Wh'by)
Boyd-Carpenter, Major Sir A. B.	Edmondson, Major A. J.	Hills, Major John Waller
Briggs, J. Harold	Elliot, Major Walter E.	Hopkins, J. W. W. i
Brittain, Sir Harry	Erskine, Lord (Somerset,Weston-s.-M.)	Hopkinson, Sir A. (Eng. Universities):
Brocklebank, C. E. R.	Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South)	Hore-Belisha, Lesie
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I.	Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.)	Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.)
Broun-Lindsay, Major H.	Everard, W. Lindsay	Hudson, R. S. (Cumberland,Whiteh'n)
Buckingham, Sir H.	Fairfax, Captain J. G.	Hume, Sir G. H.:
Bullock, Captain M.	Falle, Sir Bertram G.	Hunter-Weston, Lt.-Gen. sir Aylmer
Burgoyne, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Alan	Fanshawe, Commander G. D.	Huntingfield, Lord
Burton, Colonel H. W.	Fermoy, Lord	Hurst, Gerald B.
Butler, Sir Geoffrey	Fielden, E. B.	Hutchison,G.A.Clark (Midl'n & P'bl's)
Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward	Ford, Sir P. J.	Iliffe, Sir Edward M.
Campbell, E. T.	Forrest, W.	Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l)
Cassels, J. D.	Foxcroft, Captain C. T.	Jacob, A. E.
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City)	Galbraith, J. F. W.	Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington)
Cazalet, Captain Victor A.	Ganzonl, Sir John	Kindersley, Major Guy M.
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston)	Gates, Percy	King, Captain Henry Douglas
Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton	Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham	Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood)	Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John	Knox, Sir Alfred
Charteris, Brigadier-General J.	Glyn, Major R. G. C.	Lamb, J. Q.
Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R.	O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton)	Steel, Major Samuel Strang
Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip	O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Hugh	Streatfelld, Captain S. R.
Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley)	Oman, Sir Charles William C.	Strickland, Sir Gerald
Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green)	Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William	Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Loder, J. de V.	Pennefather. Sir John	Styles, Captain H. Walter
Lord, Walter Greaves-	Penny, Frederick George	Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser
Lougher, L.	Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome)	Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H.
Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere	Pitcher, G.	Tasker, Major R. Inigo
Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman	Pilditch, Sir Philip	Templeton, W. P.
MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen	Power, Sir John Cecil	Tinne, J. A.
Macdonald, sir Murdoch (Inverness)	Price, Major C. W. M.	Tichfield, Major the Marquess of
Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.)	Radford, E. A.	Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
McDonnell. Colonel Hon. Angus	Ramsden, E.	Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P.
MacIntyre, Ian	Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington)	Wallace, Captain D. E.
MacLaren, Andrew	Reid, D. D. (County Down)	Warner, Brigadier-General W. W.
Macmillan, Captain H.	Remer, J. R.	Waterhouse, Captain Charles
McNeill, Rt. Hon. Ronald John	Remnant, Sir James	Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)
Macquisten, F. A.	Rentoul, G. S.	Wells, S. R.
MacRobert, Alexander M.	Rhys, Hon. C. A. U.	Wheler. Major Sir Granville C. H.
Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel	Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y)	White, Lieut.-Col Sir G. Dairymple
Makins, Brigadier-General E.	Ropner, Major L.	Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
Malone, Major P. B.	Rye, F. G.	Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)
Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn	Salmon, Major I.	Wilson. R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield)
Margesson, Captain D.	Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)	Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Marriott, Sir J. A. R.	Sandeman, A. Stewart	Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Meller. R. J.	Sanders, Sir Robert A.	wise. Sir Fredric
Merriman, F. B.	Sandon, Lord	Withers, John James
Meyer, Sir Frank	Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D.	Wolmer, Viscount
Moles, Thomas	Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down)	Wood, E. (Chest'r. Stalyb'dge & Hyde)
Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M.	Skelton, A. N.	Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.)
Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr)	Slaney, Major P. Kenyon	Wood, Sir S. Hill- (High Peak)
Moore, Sir Newton J.	Smith, R. W.(Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)	Woodcock. Colonel H. C.
Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C	Smith-Carington, Neville W.	Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Morden, Colonel Walter Grant	Smithers, Waldron	Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Moreing, Captain A. H.	Spender-Clay, Colonel H.
Newwman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter)	Sprot, Sir Alexander	TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge)	Stanley, Col. Han. G. F. (Will'sden, E.)	Major Sir Harry Barnston and Mr.
Nuttall, Ellis	Stanley, Lord (Fylde)	F. C. Thomson.

Mr. SPEAKER

With respect to the next Amendment, which stands in the name of the hon. Member for Spennymoor (Mr. Batey)—in line 3, at the end, to add the words and to the substitution in Regulation 14, lines 1 and 16, of the word 'shall' for the word may '"— I feel rather doubtful whether it is in Order. I do not quite understand how it would read in the present Regulations. I propose to give the hon. Member the benefit of the doubt and to allow him to move the Amendment, and then to hear what the Government have to say.

Mr. BATEY

I beg to move, in line 3, at the end, to add the words and to the substitution in Regulation 14, lines 1 and 16, of the word 'shall' for the word 'may,' Hon. Members on the Government benches have been complaining that they have had to deliver the same speeches to-day as on other occasions. I want to supply them with new ground for delivering a different kind of speech. Regulation 14 is a different Regulation from the other Regulations we have been discuss- I propose that the Government shall takeing. By the deletion of the word "may" and the substitution of the word "shall," possession of the coal mines. I do so for two reasons (1) in the interests of the mining community, and (2) in the interests of the country. I believe that the time is coming when the Government ought to be prepared to take possession of the coal mines, open them and work them in the interests of the miners and in the interests of the country. This dispute has been in existence for 13 weeks, and as far as the coalowners are concerned it seems that the dispute can continue for another 13 weeks. I want the Government to put an end to that, and to say to the coalowners, "If you are not going to work the coal mines, we will work them."

Mr. WHITELEY

I beg, formally, to second the Amendment, in order to hear the reply of the Secretary for Mines.

The SECRETARY for MINES (Colonel Lane Fox)

The hon. Member for Spennymoor (Mr. Batey) asks that this Regulation which is in permissive form shall he made compulsory. The answer is a simple one. If what he wants to do were carried out, it would mean that the Government would at once and for the remainder of the period of the stoppage have to take over the whole of the mines and the working of the mines, as well as the stocks of coal. In other words, the hon. Member has found a short cut to his old friend, nationalisation. I do not complain of that. The hon. Member is thoroughly consistent. That is the one idea which he has had all the time. In the interests of the community, it is far better that certain of these Regulations should be permissive. It is advisable to impose as little hardship as possible upon the public. There are, no doubt, some instances, and it has been proved that there are some instances, in which it has been to the benefit of the country that certain stocks of coal should he taken over, that certain stocks should be held up, and that certain Regulations should be enforced, but to say that it is therefore necessary to apply compulsion and at once to act in the way suggested by the hon. Member, is to exaggerate the need.

The form in which the Regulation now stands gives the Government an appropriate way, if they think it is necessary in the interests of the country, to exercise the powers given in the Regulation, but to say that we should exercise them in every conceivable case covered by this Regulation, would be to make it very much more difficult for us to exercise efficiently the parts of the Regulations which we think are necessary in the interests of the country. It would make it much more difficult for the Government to make effective use of this Regulation and it would impose hardship where hardship need not be imposed. If the object which the hon. Member has in view, apart from the question of nationalisation, is that he wishes to help the general community, they would certainly not be assisted by this Amendment, but they would be very largely impeded.

Mr. R. RICHARDSON

I entirely disagree with the Secretary for Mines. Let it be remembered that this country is labouring under the great difficulty of this stoppage. We have heard over and over again that the great need of this country is to export coal, but instead of exporting we are importing it, and in the Amendment we ask that the Government shall take over the production of coal for home consumption as well as for export. I demur to the statement that this policy would result in greater hardship than is being suffered at present, because the hardship could not be greater than it is now. I trust the House will accept the Amendment and will not give any assistance to the coalowners, who desire to drive the miners into the condition they were more than 100 years ago.

Mr. WESTWOOD

The Secretary for Mines only dealt with one aspect of the Amendment, the question of the Government taking over the mines, and omitted to deal with the second point, namely, that the Board of Trade "shall" not "may," give directions as to the fixing of the price of coal. If there is one thing that the Board of Trade ought to have done, it is to fix the price of the coal. Under the old conditions the labourer at the face got 3s. a ton, and the community had to pay as much as £3 10s. and even £4 per ton. This Amendment is intended to save the general community being exploited by the coalowners in the sale of coal, and I should like to know from the right hon. Gentleman what objection there can be to the Board having definite powers to fix the price of coal and so save the community from the sharks which are exploiting them at the moment.

Colonel LANE FOX

I am only entitled to speak again by leave of the House. The answer I gave is simple. The hon. Member talks about coal being sold at £4 and £5 per ton. If he will give me particulars I will go into every case, as I have done so far, but I cannot deal with mere vague assertions, especially as some of the cases which have been brought to my notice have not proved to be accurate. As regards the price of foreign coal, you cannot prove profiteering unless you prove the price originally paid for it and all the circumstances under which it is distributed. If the hon. Member can give me the particulars of the case in which coal has been sold at £4 I will deal with it, but the mere fact that hon. Members say it is being sold at these prices—I respect every word they say—is not of much use unless they are prepared to give me the details of the transaction from the moment the coal is purchased to its distribution. Until they have given me these particulars it is absurd for me to give any definite decision or announcement.

Mr. A. V. ALEXANDER

The right hon. Gentleman will know from the evidence I submited to the Royal Commission that I have some knowledge of the cost of coal. The Royal Commission on Coal referred to that evidence. It is strange that the Secretary for Mines should make such a reply, for I can tell him that yesterday at Twickenham, at my residence in the constituency of the Home Secretary, we had to pay for rationed coal 2s. 6d. for half a cwt. and for coke 2s. 6d. for half a cwt. In other words, that was an average of £5 a ton for a mixture of coal and coke. I make a present of that information to the right hon. Gentleman, and suggest that he might now take up the question of the control of prices.

Mr. RADFORD

I hold no brief for the distributors of coal, but I think it only fair that the House should take into account that until a few days ago merchants were limited to a delivery of one quarter cwt. per house per week. It is obvious that no merchant can go a considerable distance with a motor lorry or horse-drawn vehicle and deliver coal in those small quantities at the same margin of gross profit as for the delivery of a ton or larger quantity.

Question put, "That those words be there added."

The House divided: Ayes, 84; Noes, 238.

Division No. 419.]	AYES.	[3.52 p.m.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West)	Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil)	Sexton, James
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro')	Hardie, George D.	Shaw, Rt, Hon. Thomas (Preston)
Ammon, Charles George	Hirst, G. H.	Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bliston)	Hirst, W. (Bradford, South)	Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Barr, J.	Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield)	Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Batey, Joseph	John, William (Rhondda, West)	Sitch, Charles H.
Bondfield, Margaret	Johnston, Thomas (Dundee)	Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhilthe)
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W.	Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)	Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley)
Broad. F. A.	Kelly, W. T.	Snell, Harry
Bromley, J.	Kennedy, T.	Stamford, T. W.
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute)	Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M.	Stephen, Campbell
Buchanan, G.	Lawrence, Susan	Sutton, J. E.
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel	Lawson, John James	Taylor, R. A.
Charleton, H. C.	Lee, F.	Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby)
Cove, W. G.	Lindley, F. W.	Thurtle, Ernest
Dalton, Hugh	Lowth, T.	Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P.
Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale)	MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon)	Viant, S. P.
Day, Colonel Harry	March, S.	Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Dennison, R.	Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)	Welsh, J.C.
Duncan, C.	Naylor, T. E.	Westwood, J.
Dunnico, H.	Palin, John Henry	Whiteley, W.
Gardner, J. P.	Paling, W.	Williams, Dr. J. H. (Lianelly)
Gosling, Harry	Pethick-Lawrence, F. W.	Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne)	Ponsonby, Arthur	Windson, Walter
Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan)	Potts, John S.	Wright, W.
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, pontypool)	Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)	Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Groves, T.	Saklatvala, Shapurji
Grundy, T. W.	Salter, Dr. Alfred	TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton)	Scurr, John	Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. Hayes.
NOES.
Albery, Irving James	Briggs, J. Harold	Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D.
Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W.Derby)	Brittain, Sir Harry	Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir G. K.
Applin, Colonel R. V. K.	Brocklebank, C. E. R.	Colfox, Major William Phillips
Apsley, Lord	Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I.	Conway, Sir W. Martin
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W.	Broun-Lindsay, Major H.	Cope, Major William
Atkinson, C.	Buckingham, Sir H.	Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islington, N.)
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley	Bullock, Captain M.	Craig, Ernest (Chester, Crewe)
Balfour, George (Hampstead)	Burgoyne, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Alan	Cralk, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry
Balniel, Lord	Burton, Colonel H. W.	Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H.
Banks, Reginald Mitchell	Butler, Sir Geoffrey	Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick)
Barclay-Harvey, C. M.	Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward	Crookshank,Cpt. R. (Lindsey, Gainsbro)
Barnett, Major Sir Richard	Campbell, E. T.	Cunliffe, sir Herbert
Barnston, Major Sir Harry	Cassels, J. D.	Curzon, Captain Viscount
Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.)	Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City)	Davidson, J.(Hertf'd, Hemel Hempst'd)
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake)	Cazalet, Captain Victor A.	Davies, Dr. Vernon
Bennett, A. J.	Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston)	Davies. Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil)
Berry, Sir George	Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton	Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester)
Betterton, Henry B.	Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood)	Dawson, Sir Philip
Birchall, Major J. Dearman	Charteris, Brigadier-General J.	Eden, Captain Anthony
Boothby, R. J. G.	Christie, J. A.	Edmondson, Major A. J.
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft	Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer	Elliot, Major Walter E.
Bowyer, Captain G. E. W.	Churchman, Sir Arthur C.	Erskine, Lord (Somerset,Weston-s.-M.)
Boyd-Carpenter, Major Sir A. B.	Clayton, G. C.	Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South)
Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.)	Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R.	Ropner, Major L.
Everard, W. Lindsay	Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip	Rye, F. G.
Fairfax, Captain J. G.	Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley)	Salmon, Major I.
Falle, Sir Bertram G.	Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green)	Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Fanshawe, Commander G. D.	Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (Handsw'th)	Sandeman, A. Stewart
Fermoy, Lord	Loder, J. de V.	Sanders, Sir Robert A.
Fielden, E. B.	Lord, Walter Greaves-	Sandon, Lord
Ford, Sir P. J.	Lougher, L.	Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D.
Forrest, W.	Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley
Foxcroft, Captain C. T.	Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman	Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down)
Galbraith, J. F. W.	MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen	Skelton, A. N.
Ganzonl, Sir John	Macdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness)	Slaney, Major P. Kenyon
Gates, Percy	Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.)	Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)
Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham	McDonnell. Colonel Hon. Angus	Smith-Carington, Neville W.
Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John	MacIntyre, Ian	Smithers, Waldon
Glyn, Major R. G. C.	MacLean, Major A.	Spender-Clay, Colonel H.
Goff, Sir Park	Macmillan, Captain H.	Sprot, Sir Alexander
Grant, Sir J. A.:	McNeill, Rt. Hon. Ronald John	Stanley, Col. Hon. G. F. (Will'sden, E.)
Grattan-Doyle, Sir N.	Macquisten, F. A.	Stanley, Lord (Fylde)
Greene, W. P. Crawford	MacRobert, Alexander M.	Steel, Major Samuel Strang
Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London)	Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel	Streatfelld, Captain S. R.
Crotrian, H. Brent	Makins, Brigadier-General E.	Strickland, Sir Gerald
Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E.	Malone, Major P. B.	Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Gunston, Captain D. W.:	Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn	Styles, Captain H. Walter
Hacking, Captain Douglas H.	Marriott, Sir J. A. R.	Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser
Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.)	Meller. R. J.	Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H.
Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry:	Merriman, F. B.	Tasker, Major R. Inigo
Harrison, G. J. C.	Meyer, Sir Frank	Templeton, W. P.
Hartington, Marquess of	Moles, Thomas	Tinne, J. A.
Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington)	Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M.	Tichfield, Major the Marquess of
Hawke, John Anthony	Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr)	Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M.	Moore, Sir Newton J.	Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P.
Henderson, Capt. R.R. (Oxf'd, Henley)	Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C	Wallace, Captain D. E.
Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle)	Morden, Col. W. Grant	Warner, Brigadier-General W. W.
Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P.	Moreing, Captain A. H.	Waterhouse, Captain Charles
Hennessy, Major J. R. G.	Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge)	Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlsie)
Herbert. S. (York, N.R., Scar. & Wh'by)	Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert	Wells, S. R.
Hills, Major John Waller	Nuttall, Ellis	Wheler, Major Sir Granville C. H.
Hopkins, J. W. W. i	O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton)	White, Lieut.-Col Sir G. Dairymple
Hopkinson, Sir A. (Eng. Universities):	O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Hugh	Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
Hore-Belisha, Lesie	Oman, Sir Charles William C.	Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)
Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.)	Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William	Wilson. R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield)
Hudson, R. S. (Cumberland,Whiteh'n)	Pennefather. Sir John	Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Hume, Sir G. H.:	Penny, Frederick George	Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Hunter-Weston, Lt.-Gen. sir Aylmer	Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome)	wise. Sir Fredric
Huntingfield, Lord	Pitcher, G.	Withers, John James
Hurst, Gerald B.	Pilditch, Sir Philip	Wolmer, Viscount
Hutchison,G.A.Clark (Midl'n & P'bl's)	Power, Sir John Cecil	Wood, E. (Chest'r. Stalyb'dge & Hyde)
Iliffe, Sir Edward M.	Price, Major C. W. M.	Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.)
Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Rt. Hon. F. S.	Radford, E. A.	Wood, Sir S. Hill- (High Peak)
Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l)	Ramsden, E.	Woodcock. Colonel H. C.
Jacob, A. E.	Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington)	Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington)	Reid, D. D. (County Down)	Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Kindersley, Major Guy M.	Remer, J. R.
King, Captain Henry Douglas	Remnant, Sir James	TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement	Rentoul, G. S.	Mr. F. C. Thomson and Captain
Knox, Sir Alfred	Rhys, Hon. C. A. U.	Margesson.
Lamb, J. Q.	Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y)

Main Question again proposed.

It being after Four of the Clock, Mr. SPEAKER rose to interrupt the Business.

The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the TREASURY (Commander Eyres-Monsell)

rose in his place, and claimed to more " That. the Question be now put."

Captain BENN

On a point of Order. I submit that it being after four of the clock it is impossible to put the Motion.

Mr. SPEAKER

If the hon. and gallant Member will read the Standing Order, he will see that the Closure may be moved on the interruption of Business at four o'clock.

Captain BENN

May I submit, on a point of Order, that the words "interruption of Business" are a term of art in the Standing Order meaning eleven o'clock on four days of the week and four o'clock, as the case may be, on Friday.

Mr. SPEAKER

"Interruption of Business" means the moment at which I say, "Order, Order!"

Mr. STEPHEN

Does the interruption of Business not refer really to the Committee being in Committee, and coming from Committee into the House?

Mr. SPEAKER

The interruption of Business was at the completion of the Division proceeding at four o'clock.

Mr. HARDIE

When in the case of interruption of Business there is only one Amendment left and time is not given to take it before the interruption, can the Main Question then be taken?

Mr. SPEAKER

Certainly. The Question is, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The House divided: Ayes, 233; Noes, 87.

Division 420.]	AYES.	[4.4 p.m.
Albery, Irving James	Fairfax, Captain J. G.	McDonnell. Colonel Hon. Angus
Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W.Derby)	Falle, Sir Bertram G.	MacIntyre, Ian
Applin, Colonel R. V. K.	Fanshawe, Commander G. D.	MacLean, Major A.
Apsley, Lord	Fermoy, Lord	Macmillan, Captain H.
Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W.	Fielden, E. B.	McNeill, Rt. Hon. Ronald John
Atkinson, C.	Ford, Sir P. J.	Macquisten, F. A.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley	Forrest, W.	MacRobert, Alexander M.
Balfour, George (Hampstead)	Foxcroft, Captain C. T.	Makins, Brigadier-General E.
Balniel, Lord	Galbraith, J. F. W.	Malone, Major P. B.
Banks, Reginald Mitchell	Gates, Percy	Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn
Barclay-Harvey, C. M.	Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham	Margesson, Captain D.
Barnett, Major Sir Richard	Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John	Marriott, Sir J. A. R.
Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.)	Glyn, Major R. G. C.	Meller. R. J.
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake)	Goff, Sir Park	Merriman, F. B.
Bennett, A. J.	Grant, Sir J. A.:	Meyer, Sir Frank
Berry, Sir George	Grattan-Doyle, Sir N.	Moles, Thomas
Betterton, Henry B.	Greene, W. P. Crawford	Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M.
Birchall, Major J. Dearman	Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London)	Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr)
Boothby, R. J. G.	Grotrian, H. Brent	Moore, Sir Newton J.
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft	Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E.	Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C
Bowyer, Captain G. E. W.	Gunston, Captain D. W.:	Morden, Col. W. Grant
Boyd-Carpenter, Major Sir A. B.	Hacking, Captain Douglas H.	Moreing, Captain A. H.
Briggs, J. Harold	Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.)	Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter)
Brittain, Sir Harry	Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry:	Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge)
Brocklebank, C. E. R.	Harrison, G. J. C.	Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I.	Hartington, Marquess of	Nuttall, Ellis
Broun-Lindsay, Major H.	Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington)	O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton)
Buckingham, Sir H.	Hawke, John Anthony	Oman, Sir Charles William C.
Bullock, Captain M.	Headiam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M.	Orsmby-Gore, Hon. William
Burgoyne, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Alan	Henderson, Capt. R.R. (Oxf'd, Henley)	Pennefather. Sir John
Burton, Colonel H. W.	Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle)	Penny, Frederick George
Butler, Sir Geoffrey	Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P.	Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome)
Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward	Hennessy, Major J. R. G.	Pitcher, G.
Campbell, E. T.	Herbert. S. (York, N.R., Scar. & Wh'by)	Pldltch, Sir Philip
Cassels, J. D.	Hills, Major John Waller	Power, Sir John Cecil
Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City)	Hopkins, J. W. W. i	Price, Major C. W. M.
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston)	Hopkinson, Sir A. (Eng. Universities):	Radford, E. A.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood)	Hore-Belisha, Leslie	Ramsden, E.
Charteris, Brigadier-General J.	Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.)	Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington)
Christie, J. A.	Hudson, R. S. (Cumberland,Whiteh'n)	Reid, D. D. (County Down)
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer	Hume, Sir G. H.:	Remer, J. R.
Churchman, Sir Arthur C.	Hunter-Weston, Lt.-Gen. Sir Aylmer	Remnant, Sir James
Clayton, G. C.	Huntingfield, Lord	Rentoul, G. S.
Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D.	Hurst, Gerald B.	Rhys, Hon. C. A. U.
Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir G. K.	Hutchison,G.A.Clark (Midl'n & P'bl's)	Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y)
Colfox, Major William Phillips	Iliffe, Sir Edward M.	Ropner, Major L.
Conway, Sir W. Martin	Jackson, Lieut.-Col. Rt. Hon. F. S.	Rye, F. G.
Cope, Major William	Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l)	Salmon, Major I.
Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islington, N.)	Jacob, A. E.	Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Craig, Ernest (Chester, Crewe)	Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington)	Sandeman, A. Stewart
Cralk, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Kindersley, Major Guy M.	Sanders, Sir Robert A.
Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H.	King, Captain Henry Douglas	Sandon, Lord
Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick)	Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement	Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D.
Crookshank,Cpt. R. (Lindsey, Gainsbro)	Knox, Sir Alfred	Sheffield, Sir Barkeley
Cunliffe, sir Herbert	Lamb, J. Q.	Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down)
Curzon, Captain Viscount	Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R.	Skelton, A. N.
Davidson, J.(Hertf'd, Hemel Hempst'd)	Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip	Slaney, Major P. Kenyon
Davies, Dr. Vernon	Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley)	Smith, R. W.(Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)
Davies. Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil)	Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green)	Smith-Carington, Neville W.
Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester)	Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (Handsw'th)	Smithers, Waldron
Dawson, Sir Philip	Loder, J. de V.	Spender-Clay, Colonel H.
Eden, Captain Anthony	Lord, Walter Greaves-	Sprot, Sir Alexander
Edmondson, Major A. J.	Lougher, L.	Stanley, Col. Han. G. F. (Will'sden, E.)
Elliot, Major Walter E.	Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere	Steel, Major Samuel Strang
Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South)	Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman	Streatfeild, Captain S. R.
Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.)	MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen	Strickland, Sir Gerald
Everard, W. Lindsay	Macdonald, sir Murdoch (Inverness)	Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
	Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.)	Styles, Captain H. Walter
Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser	Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisle)	Wolmer, Viscount
Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H.	Wells, S. R.	Wood, E. (Chest'r. Stalyb'dge & Hyde)
Tasker, Major R. Inigo	Wheler. Major Sir Granville C. H.	Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.)
Templeton, W. P.	White, Lieut.-Col Sir G. Dairymple	Wood, Sir S. Hill- (High Peak)
Tinne, J. A.	Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)	Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Titchfield, Major the Marquess of	Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)	Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement	Wilson. R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield)
Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P.	Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George	TELLERS FOR THE AEYS.—
Wallace, Captain D. E.	Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl	Mr. F. C. Thomson and Lord Stanley.
Warner, Brigadier-General W. W.	Wise. Sir Fredric
Waterhouse, Captain Charles	Withers, John James
NOES.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West)	Grundy, T. W.	Scurr, John
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro')	Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton)	Sexton, James
Ammon, Charles George	Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvll)	Shaw, Rt, Hon. Thomas (Preston)
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bliston)	Hardie, George D.	Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Barr, J.	Hirst, G. H.	Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Batey, Joseph	Hirst, W. (Bradford, South)	Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith)	Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield)	Sitch, Charles H.
Bondfield, Margaret	John, William (Rhondda, West)	Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe)
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W.	Johnston, Thomas (Dundee)	Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley)
Broad. F. A.	Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)	Snell, Harry
Bromley, J.	Kelly, W. T.	Stamford, T. W.
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute)	Kennedy, T.	Stephen, Campbell
Buchanan, G.	Lenworthy, Lt.Com. Hon. Joseph M.	Sutton, J. E.
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel	Lawrence, Susan	Taylor, R. A.
Charleton, H. C.	Lawson, John James	Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby)
Cove, W. G.	Lee, F.	Thurtle, Ernest
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities)	Lindley, F. W.	Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P.
Dalton, Hugh	Lowth, T.	Viant, S. P.
Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale)	MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon)	Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Day, Colonel Harry	March, S.	Welsh, J. C.
Dennison, R.	Morris, R. H.	Westwood, J.
Duncan, C.	Naylor, T. E.	Whiteley, W.
Dunnico, H.	Palin, John Henry	Williams, Dr. J. H. (Lianelly)
Gardner, J. P.	Paling, W.	Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Gosling, Harry	Pethick-Lawrence, F. W.	Windsor, Walter
Greenall, T.	Ponsonby, Arthur	Wright, W.
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne)	Potts, John S.	Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Grenfell, Dr. R. (Glamorgan)	Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, pontypool)	Saklatvala, Shapurji	TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Groves, T.	Salter, Dr. Alfred	Mr. Hayes and Mr. Charles Edwards.

Question put accordingly, That the Regulations made by His Majesty in Council under the Emergency Powers Act, 1920, by Order dated the 26th day of July, 1926, shall continue in force,

subject, however, to the provisions of Section 2 (4) of the said Act."

The House divided: Ayes, 230; Noes, 84.

Division 421.]	AYES.	[4. 12 p.m.
Albery, Irving James	Buckingham, Sir H.	Curzon, Captain Viscount
Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W.Derby)	Bullock, Captain M.	Davidson, J.(Hertf'd, Hemel Hempst'd)
Applin, Colonel R. V. K.	Burgoyne, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Alan	Davies, Dr. Vernon
Apsley, Lord	Burton, Colonel H. W.	Davies. Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil)
Atkinson, C.	Butler, Sir Geoffrey	Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester)
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley	Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward	Dawson, Sir Philip
Balfour, George (Hampstead)	Campbell, E. T.	Eden, Captain Anthony
Balniel, Lord	Cassels, J. D.	Edmondson, Major A. J.
Banks, Reginald Mitchell	Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City)	Elliot, Major Walter E.
Barclay-Harvey, C. M.	Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston)	Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South)
Barnett, Major Sir Richard	Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood)	Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.)
Barnston, Major Sir Harry	Christie, J. A.	Everard, W. Lindsay
Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N.)	Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer	Fairfax, Captain J. G.
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake)	Churchman, Sir Arthur C.	Falle, Sir Bertram G.
Bennett, A. J.	Clayton, G. C.	Fanshawe, Commander G. D.
Berry, Sir George	Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D.	Fermoy, Lord
Betterton, Henry B.	Cockerill, Brig.-General Sir G. K.	Fielden, E. B.
Birchall, Major J. Dearman	Colfox, Major William Phillips	Forrest, W.
Boothby, R. J. G.	Conway, Sir W. Martin	Foxcroft, Captain C. T.
Bourne, Captain Robert Croft	Cope, Major William	Fraser, Captain Ian
Bowyer, Captain G. E. W.	Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islington, N.)	Galbraith, J. F. W.
Boyd-Carpenter, Major Sir A. B.	Craig, Ernest (Chester, Crewe)	Gates, Percy
Briggs, J. Harold	Cralk, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham
Brittain, Sir Harry	Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H.	Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John
Brocklebank, C. E. R.	Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick)	Glyn, Major R. G. C.
Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I.	Crookshank,Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro)	Grant, Sir J. A.:
Broun-Lindsay, Major H.	Cunliffe, sir Herbert
Grattan-Doyle, Sir N.	Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.)	Sanders, Sir Robert A.
Greene, W. P. Crawford	McDonnell. Colonel Hon. Angus	Sandon, Lord
Grenfell, Edward C. (City of London)	MacIntyre, Ian	Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D.
Crotrian, H. Brent	MacLean, Major A.	Sheffield, Sir Barkeley
Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E.	Macmillan, Captain H.	Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down)
Gunston, Captain D. W.:	McNeill, Rt. Hon. Ronald John	Skelton, A. N.
Hacking, Captain Douglas H.	MacRobert, Alexander M.	Slaney, Major P. Kenyon
Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.)	Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel	Smith, R. W.(Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.)
Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry:	Makins, Brigadier-General E.	Smith-Carington, Neville W.
Harrison, G. J. C.	Malone, Major P. B.	Smithers, Waldron
Hartington, Marquess of	Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn	Spender-Clay, Colonel H.
Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington)	Margesson, Captain D.	Sprot, Sir Alexander
Hawke, John Anthony	Marriott, Sir J. A. R.	Stanley, Col. Han. G. F. (Will'sden, E.)
Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M.	Meller. R. J.	Stanley, Lord (Fylde)
Henderson, Capt. R.R. (Oxf'd, Henley)	Merriman, F. B.	Steel, Major Samuel Strang
Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle)	Moles, Thomas	Streatfeild, Captain S. R.
Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P.	Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M.	Strickland, Sir Gerald
Herbert. S. (York, N.R., Scar. & Wh'by)	Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr)	Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Hills, Major John Waller	Moore, Sir Newton J.	Styles, Captain H. Walter
Hopkins, J. W. W. I	Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C	Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser
Hopkinson, Sir A. (Eng. Universities):	Morden, Col. W. Grant	Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H.
Hore-Bellsha, Lesie	Moreing, Captain A. H.	Tasker, Major R. Inigo
Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.)	Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter)	Templeton, W. P.
Hudson, R. S. (Cumb'l'and,Whiteh'n)	Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge)	Tinne, J. A.
Hume, Sir G. H.:	Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert	Tichfleld, Major the Marquess of
Hunter-Weston, Lt.-Gen. Sir Aylmer	Nuttall, Ellis	Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement
Huntingfield, Lord	O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton)	Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P.
Hurst, Gerald B.	Oman, Sir Charles William C.	Wallace, Captain D. E.
Hutchison,G.A.Clark (Midl'n & P'bl's)	Orsmby-Gore, Hon. William	Warner, Brigadier-General W. W.
Iliffe, Sir Edward M.	Pennefather. Sir John	Waterhouse, Captain Charles
Jackson, Lieut.-Col. Rt. Hon. F. S.	Penny, Frederick George	Watson, Rt. Hon. W. (Carlisie)
Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l)	Peto, G. (Somerset, Frome)	Wells, S. R.
Jacob, A. E.	Pitcher, G.	Wheler. Major Sir Granville C. H.
Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington)	Pilditch, Sir Philip	White, Lieut.-Col Sir G. Dairymple
Kindersley, Major G. M.	Power, Sir John Cecil	Williams, A. M. (Cornwall, Northern)
King, Captain Henry Douglas	Price, Major C. W. M.	Williams, Herbert G. (Reading)
Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement	Radford, E. A.	Wilson. R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield)
Knox, Sir Alfred	Ramsden, E.	Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George
Lamb, J. Q.	Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington)	Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Lane Fox, Col. Rt. Hon. George R.	Reid, D. D. (County Down)	Wise. Sir Fredric
Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip	Remer, J. R.	Withers, John James
Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley)	Remnant, Sir James	Wolmer, Viscount
Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green)	Rentoul, G. S.	Wood, E. (Chest'r. Stalyb'dge & Hyde)
Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (Handsw'th)	Rhys, Hon. C. A. U.	Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.)
Loder, J. D. V.	Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y)	Wood, Sir S. Hill- (High Peak)
Lord, Walter Greaves-	Ropner, Major L.	Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Lucas-Tooth, Sir Hugh Vere	Rye, F. G.	Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T.
Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman	Salmon, Major I.
MacAndrew, Major Charles Glen	Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)	TELLERS FOR THE AEYS.—
Macdonald, sir Murdoch (Inverness)	Sandeman, A. Stewart	Major Hennessy and Mr. F. C. Thomson.
NOES.
Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West)	Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton)	Scurr, John
Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro')	Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil)	Sexton, James
Ammon, Charles George	Hardie, George D.	Shaw, Rt, Hon. Thomas (Preston)
Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bliston)	Hirst, G. H.	Shepherd, Arthur Lewis
Barr, J.	Hirst, W. (Bradford, South)	Shiels, Dr. Drummond
Bondfield, Margaret	Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield)	Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W.	John, William (Rhondda, West)	Sitch, Charles H.
Broad. F. A.	Johnston, Thomas (Dundee)	Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley)
Bromley, J.	Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)	Snell, Harry
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute)	Kelly, W. T.	Stamford, T. W.
Buchanan, G.	Kennedy, T.	Stephen, Campbell
Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel	Lenworthy, Lt.Com. Hon. Joseph M.	Sutton, J. E.
Charleton, H. C.	Lawrence, Susan	Taylor, R. A.
Cove, W. G.	Lawson, John James	Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby)
Dalton, Hugh	Lee, F.	Thurtle, Ernest
Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale)	Lindley, F. W.	Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P.
Day, Colonel Harry	Lowth, T.	Viant, S. P.
Dennison, R.	MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon)	Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda)
Duncan, C.	March, S.	Welsh, J. C.
Dunnico, H.	Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)	Westwood, J.
Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty)	Naylor, T. E.	Whiteley, W.
Gardner, J. P.	Palin, John Henry	Williams, Dr. J. H. (Lianelly)
Gosling, Harry	Paling, W.	Williams, T. (York, Don Valley)
Greenall, T.	Pethick-Lawrence, F. W.	Windsor, Walter
Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Coine)	Ponsonby, Arthur	Wright, W.
Grenfell, Dr. R. (Glamorgan)	Potts, John S.	Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, pontypool)	Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)
Groves, T.	Saklatvala, Shapurji	TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Grundy, T. W.	Salter, Dr. Alfred	Mr. Hayes and Mr. B. Smith.

Resolved, That the Regulations made by His Majesty in Council under the Emergency Powers Act, 1920, by Order dated the 26th day of July, 1926, shall continue in force, subject, however, to the provisions of Section 2 (4) of the said Act.

The remaining Orders were read, and postponed.

Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House, without Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. S.

Adjourned at Twenty Minutes after Four o'Clock until Monday next (2nd August).