§ As from the thirty-first day of August, nineteen hundred and twenty-five, the duties chargeable upon sugar, molasses, glucose, and saccharin, in pursuance of Sections four and five of The Finance Act, 1924, and the First Schedule to that Act, shall cease.
Mr. W. M. ADAMSONWhen our proceedings were interrupted I had pointed out to the Chancellor of the Exchequer the very important fact that he was limiting the powers of Parliament in relation to future Budgets because of the 10 years' period he had placed on the Preferential duties for Colonial sugar. I would press for some saving clause in this Bill to protect our interests in that respect. I had referred briefly to the Sugar Duty in last year's Budget, and had indicated that the duty had been reduced from 25s. 8d. to 11s. 8d. per cwt., or from 3¾d. to 1¼d. per 1b. That little sugar egg was given by the Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer last year to the consumers of this country, at a cost approximately of £18,000,000. During the War sugar had been very heavily taxed, and in 1923 the tax was actually 14 times more than it had been in 1923. The working class consumers paid such heavy taxation during the war period that there is a strong argument for further consideration of the duty to-day. In our Debates it has somehow become a regular practice, when a concession is made in regard to one commodity, that that commodity is passed over in the Budgets of future years. I plead for the repeal of the Sugar Duty, rather than that sugar should be passed by because of the remission of duty conceded last year. I ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to emulate the Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer and to cut out of existence the duty now in operation
The members of the Labour party are against any taxation of this necessity of life. Sugar is used, not merely in tea, but in almost everything that is essential in working-class homes. The burden of the tax is greatest upon the poorest. The old age pensioner to-day pays a duty on sugar in the same proportion as the wealthiest member of the community. The percent- 444 age from their incomes is enormous as compared with that from the incomes of wealthier persons. We should also remember that sugar is used extensively in some of our large industries, not merely in the manufacture of sweets, biscuits and confectionery, but in one very important industry, namely, jam-making. I therefore plead with the Chancellor of the Exchequer to reconsider the position. I hope he will look upon the matter from the point of view of equity to all classes of taxpayers and will see that the unemployed—to whose numbers another 40,000 have been added, following upon the 60,000 of last week—are not asked to take an undue share of this burden placed on one of the essentials of life.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI am quite sure the hon. Gentleman, who has made a very closely reasoned speech and one in which he has endeavoured to economise his demand on the time of the Committee, does not expect that I will accede to his request. [HON. MEMBERS: "Why not?"] At any rate, I hope he does not, because if he does it will be my melancholy duty to undeceive him. It is not in our power to agree to this proposal. An immense remission was made last year by the right hon. Gentleman the then Chancellor of the Exchequer. That remission was responded to by an increase in consumption, a fact from which all parties in the House may take satisfaction. We are not in a position financially to make a further change in this direction this year. There is one thing, however, about which I can reassure the hon. Gentleman. The preferential arrangements which have been made and the 10 years' guarantee in no way fetter the power of Parliament to effect a reduction in the duty. It is explicitly provided that if the duty should be reduced below the amount at which we have now fixed the preference, the preference should be reduced accordingly. Of course, it might be that if Parliament were in the happy position of being able to reduce the Sugar Duty practically to nothing and at the same time to make an engagement to give a certain guarantee of stability to the Imperial sugar producer, then that would be a position they might wish to consider. Neither contingency comes within the range of practical politics at the present time. We are not in a position to reduce the Sugar Duty this year, nor in the immediate future, below 445 the level where it is likely to affect the preference. In these circumstances, as I understand the hon. Gentleman and his friends would like to testify their abhorrence of indirect taxes of all forms and kinds on this particular duty, I certainly will not stand between them and the most effective expression of their views.
Captain BENNI desire to state briefly why some of us on these benches intend to support the Amendment. I have explained many times in these Debates that we are not entirely masters of our own particular preferences. I myself do not think that this year a complete abolition of the Sugar Duty is possible. I have said that to my constituents and to anyone who has raised the question with me. At the same time, we think sugar is one thing that should be selected for reduction by the Chancellor in preference to other things. We wish to express that view by going into the Lobby in support of the new Clause. Clause 7 is particularly objectionable, because it stabilises the rate of duty for 10 years, and the right hon. Gentleman has made the, to me, very disappointing announcement that there is no possibility in the next 10 years of abolishing the Sugar Duty.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLNo
Captain BENNWell, in the next few years. I hope, whatever the vicissitudes of Parliamentary fortune may be, there will be some Government that within some reasonable period will make an attempt to get rid of this, the worst of all taxes. For that reason, and because I believe the whole of this Clause 7 tends to rivet these taxes on the necks of our people, and deprive us of our proper liberty of making cur own fiscal arrangements, I shall support this new Clause.
§ Mr. J. J. GUESTI support the new Clause, on the ground that I consider the Sugar Duty to be a vicious and a bad tax. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said we were not hoping to succeed with this Clause, but I think we are justified in hoping to succeed to-night, because of the fact that, while he may be confident in the majority that sits behind him, we are equally confident that we shall take into our lobby representatives of the vast ma- 446 jority of the electors of this country, and that is the opinion which ultimately prevails. My hon. Friend the Member for Cannock (Mr. W. M. Adamson) has dealt with a great many of the arguments on this question, but I desire to emphasise the fact that this is a tax which bears with very great hardship on the poorest of the poor. The unemployed, who are suffering so badly at the present time, will have this tax to pay. Many of the larger families with young children who eat sugar, but who are unable to work, will have to bear an undue proportion of this tax. The persons in receipt of old age pensions, and of poor law relief, will have to pay their proportion, and in many cases a very unfair and unjust proportion of this tax, out of their poverty. Although one realises that the remission of this tax would cost money. I think we are further justified in asking for its repeal, because we are conscious of the vast sums of money which the Chancellor of the Exchequer has already made over to those who are really in need. The gifts which have been made to the Super-tax payer and the wealthy Income Tax payer justify us in our position in demanding, so far as we may demand, that some concession shall be made in this Budget to the poorest of the poor people of this land. So far they have received no recognition in this Budget. Their burdens have not been lightened in the slightest degree. Rather have they been increased, and because of the equity of our case and the fact that we believe the vast majority of the electors are with us in this matter, we appeal confidently to the Chancellor of the Exchequer to say that something may be done, and not to hold that non possumus attitude, of saying not only that nothing will be done to-night, but that nothing will be done for years to come. We hope for better things, and I can assure him, as a very humble member of our party, that if the time comes in the near future when the will of the electors outside does prevail and the vote as represented in the country to-day prevails in the Division Lobby here, I hope and trust and believe that it will be the duty of a Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer to remove this duty at the earliest possible opportunity.
§ Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 135; Noes, 241.
441| Division No. 162.] | AYES. | [11.0 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Courtauld, Major J. S. | Harland, A. |
| Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. | Courthope, Lieut.-Col. Sir George L. | Harrison, G. J. C. |
| Alexander, Sir Wm. (Glasgow, Cent'l) | Cowan, Sir Wm. Henry (Islingtn. N.) | Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington) |
| Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W. Derby) | Craig, Capt. Rt. Hon. C. C. (Antrim) | Harvey, Majors. E. (Devon, Totnes) |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Craig, Ernest (Chester, Crewe) | Haslam, Henry C. |
| Astor, Maj. Hn. John J. (Kent, Dover) | Craik, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Hawke, John Anthony |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) | Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. |
| Atkinson, C. | Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) | Henderson, Right Hon. A. (Burnley) |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Cunliffe, Joseph Herbert | Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle) |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Curtis-Bennett, Sir Henry | Heneage, Lieut.-Col. Arthur P. |
| Banks, Reginald Mitchell | Curzon, Captain Viscount | Henn, Sir Sydney H. |
| Barclay-Harvey, C. M. | Dalkeith, Earl of | Hennessy, Major J. R. G. |
| Barnett, Major Sir Richard | Davidson, J. (Hertf'd, Hemel Hempst'd) | Henniker-Hughan, Vice-Adm. Sir A. |
| Barnston, Major Sir Harry | Davidson, Major-General Sir John H. | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) |
| Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) | Davies, A. V. (Lancaster, Royton) | Hilton, Cecil |
| Bennett, A. J. | Dean, Arthur Wellesley | Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish- | Drewe, C. | Hohler, Sir Gerald Fitzroy |
| Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) | Duckworth, John | Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard |
| Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton, W.) | Edmondson, Major A. J. | Holland, Sir Arthur |
| Blades, Sir George Rowland | Edwards, John H. (Accrington) | Holt, Capt. H. P. |
| Blundell, F. N. | Elliott, Captain Walter E. | Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft. | Ellis, R. G. | Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) |
| Bowater, Sir T. Vansittart | Elveden, Viscount | Howard, Capt. Hon. D. (Cumb., N.) |
| Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. | England, Colonel A. | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) |
| Brass, Captain W. | Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s-M.) | Hudson, R. S. (Cumberl'nd, Whiteh'n) |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) | Hume, Sir G. H. |
| Briggs, J. Harold | Everard, W. Lindsay | Hutchison, G. A. Clark (Midl'n & P'bl's) |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Fairfax, Captain J. G. | Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Fermoy, Lord | Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. |
| Brocklebank, C. E. R. | Fielden, E. B. | Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) |
| Bromley, J. | Finburgh, S. | Jacob, A. E. |
| Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. | Fleming, D. P. | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) |
| Broun-Lindsay, Major H. | Forrest, W. | Joynson-Hicks, Rt. Hon. Sir William |
| Buckingham, Sir H. | Foster, Sir Harry S. | Kennedy, A. R. (Preston). |
| Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Fraser, Captain Ian | Kidd, J. (Linlithgow) |
| Bullock, Captain M. | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | King, Captain Henry Douglas |
| Burgoyne, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Alan | Gadie, Lieut.-Col. Anthony | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement |
| Burman, J. B. | Galbraith, J. F. W. | Lamb, J. Q. |
| Butler, Sir Geoffrey | Ganzoni, Sir John | Loder, J. de V. |
| Campbell, E. T. | Gates, Percy | Looker, Herbert William |
| Cassels, J. D. | Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton | Lougher, L. |
| Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) | Gee, Captain R. | Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman |
| Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Gibbs. Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham | Lumley, L. R. |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord H. (Ox. Univ.) | Glyn, Major R. G. C. | Lynn, Sir Robert J. |
| Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Gower, Sir Robert | McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus |
| Chapman, Sir S. | Grace, John | McLean, Major A. |
| Charleton, H. C. | Grant, J. A. | Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm |
| Chilcott, Sir Warden | Greene, W. P. Crawford | Macquisten, F. A. |
| Churchman, Sir Arthur C. | Greenwood, William (Stockport) | MacRobert, Alexander M. |
| Clarry, Reginald George | Gretton, Colonel John | Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel- |
| Cobb, Sir Cyril | Grotrian, H. Brent | Malone, Major P. B. |
| Cockerill, Brigadier-General G. K. | Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. F. E.(Bristol, N.) | Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn |
| Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. | Margesson, Captain D. |
| Compton, Joseph | Gunston, Captain D. W. | Marriott, Sir J. A. R. |
| Conway, Sir W. Martin | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Mason, Lieut.-Col. Glyn K. |
| Cooper, A. Duff | Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Meller, R. J. |
| Cope, Major William | Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) | Merriman, F. B. |
| Couper, J. B. | Hammersley, S. S. | Meyer, Sir Frank |
| Milne, J. S. Wardlaw- | Rawson, Alfred Cooper | Storry Deans, R. |
| Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) | Rees, Sir Beddoe | Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C. |
| Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) | Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington) | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid |
| Moles, Thomas | ||
| Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. | Reid, D. D. (County Down) | Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H. |
| Remer, J. R. | Templeton, W. P. | |
| Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) | Rentoul, G. S. | Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby) |
| Moore, Sir Newton J. | Rice, Sir Frederick | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) |
| Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. | Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford) | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen South) |
| Morden, Col. W. Grant | Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs., Stretford) | Varley, Frank B. |
| Moreing, Captain A. H. | Ruggles-Brise, Major E. A. | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P |
| Morrison, H. (Wilts, Salisbury) | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) | Waddington, R. |
| Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive | Rye, F. G. | Wallace, Captain D. E. |
| Murchison, C. K. | Salmon, Major I. | Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L. (Kingston-on-Hull) |
| Nall, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Joseph | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) | Warner, Brigadier-General W. W. |
| Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) | Sanders, Sir Robert A. | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) |
| Nicholson, O. (Westminster) | Sandon, Lord | Watts, Dr. T. |
| Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert | Scott, Sir Leslie (Liverp'l, Exchange) | Wells, S. R. |
| Nuttall, Ellis | ||
| Oakley, T. | Sexton, James | Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay) |
| O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) | Shaw, Lt.-Col. A. D. Mcl. (Renfrew, W) | Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham) |
| Shaw, Capt. W. W. (Wilts, Westb'y) | Williams, Herbert G. (Reading) | |
| O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Hugh | Sheffield, Sir Berkeley | Wilson, Sir C. H. (Leeds, Central) |
| Oman, Sir Charles William C. | Shepperson, E. W. | Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield) |
| Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William | Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down) | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Pennefather, Sir John | Slaney, Major P. Kenyon | Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl |
| Penny, Frederick George | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C. | Wise, Sir Frederic |
| Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) | Smithers, Waldron | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Perkins, Colonel E. K. | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip | Womersley, W. J. |
| Perring, William George | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) | |
| Peto Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Spencer, George A. (Broxtowe) | Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.). |
| Pilcher, G. | Sprot, Sir Alexander | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. |
| Preston, William | Stanley, Col. Hon. G. F. (Will'sden, E.) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Radford, E. A. | Stanley, Lord (Fylde) | Sir Ellis Hume-Williams and |
| Ramsden, E. | Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) | Mr. Murrough Wilson |
| Rawlinson, Rt. Hon. John Fredk. Peel | Steel, Major Samuel Strang | |
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. w. (Fife, West) | Hardie, George D. | Salter, Dr Alfred |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Scrymgeour, E. |
| Ammon, Charles George | Hayday, Arthur | Scurr, John |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Hayes, John Henry | Shiels, Dr. Drummond |
| Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Henderson, T. (Glasgow) | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) |
| Barnes, A. | Hirst, G. H. | Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness) |
| Barr, J. | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Batey, Joseph | Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) | Smillie, Robert |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Smith, H. B. Lees- (Keighley) |
| Briant, Frank | Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) | Smith, Rennie (Penistone) |
| Broad, F. A. | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Snell, Harry |
| Bromfield, William | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) | Stamford, T. W. |
| Buchanan, G. | Kelly, W. T. | Stephen, Campbell |
| Cape, Thomas | Kennedy, T. | Sutton, J. E. |
| Clowes, S. | Kirkwood, D. | Taylor, R. A. |
| Cluse W. S. | Lansbury, George | Thomas, Sir Robert John (Anglesey) |
| Connolly, M. | Lawson, John James | Thomson, Trevelyan (Middlesbro, W.) |
| Cove, W. G. | Livingstone, A. M. | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton), E.) |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Lowth, T. | Thurtle, E. |
| Crawfurd, H. E. | Lunn, William | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Crook, C. W. | Mackinder, W. | Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C P |
| Dalton, Hugh | Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) | Viant, S. P. |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | March, S. | Wallhead, Richard C. |
| Day, Colonel Harry | Maxton, James | Warne, G. H. |
| Dennison, R. | Mitchell, E. Rosslyn (Paisley) | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline) |
| Duncan, C. | Montague, Frederick | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Dunnico, H. | Morris, R. H. | Welsh, J. C. |
| Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Murnin, H. | Westwood, J. |
| Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. | Naylor, T. E. | Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J. |
| Gibbins, Joseph | Oliver, George Harold | Whiteley, W. |
| Gillett, George M. | Palin, John Henry | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| Gosling, Harry | Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| Greenall, T. | Ponsonby, Arthur | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Potts, John S. | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | Riley, Ben | Windsor, Walter |
| Groves, T. | Ritson, J. | Wright, W. |
| Grundy, T. W. | Robertson, J. (Lanark, Bothwell) | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Guest, J. (York, Hemsworth) | Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W. R., Elland) | |
| Guest, Dr. L. Haden (Southwark, N.) | Rose, Frank H. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | Saklatvala, Shapurji | Mr. R. Morrison and Mr. Paling. |
| Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) |
Bill read a Second time, and committed.
| Division No. 163.] | AYES. | [11.26 p.m. |
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) | Robertson, J. (Lanark, Bothwell) |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Hardie, George D. | Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W. R., Elland) |
| Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Rose, Frank H. |
| Ammon, Charles George | Hastings, Sir Patrick | Salter, Dr. Alfred |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Hayday, Arthur | Scrymgeour, E. |
| Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Hayes, John Henry | Scurr, John |
| Barnes, A. | Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Burnley) | Shiels, Dr. Drummond |
| Barr, J. | Henderson, T. (Glasgow) | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Batey, Joseph | Hirst, G. H. | Slesser, Sir Henry H. |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) | Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley) |
| Broad, F. A. | Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) | Snell, Harry |
| Bromfield, William | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip |
| Bromley, J. | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Spencer, George A. (Broxtowe) |
| Buchanan, G. | Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) | Stamford, T. W. |
| Cape, Thomas | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Stephen, Campbell |
| Charleton, H. C. | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Sutton, J. E. |
| Clowes, S. | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) | Taylor, R. A. |
| Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) | Kelly, W. T. | Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby) |
| Compton, Joseph | Kennedy, T. | Thomas, Sir Robert John (Anglesey) |
| Connolly, M. | Kirkwood, D. | Thomson, Trevelyan (Middlesbro. W.) |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Lawson, John James | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| Crawfurd, H. E. | Livingstone, A. M. | Thurtle, E. |
| Dalton, Hugh | Lunn, William | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R.(Aberavon) | Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P. |
| Day, Colonel Harry | Mackinder, W. | Varley, Frank B. |
| Dennison, R. | MacLaren, Andrew | Viant, S. P. |
| Duncan, C. | Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline) |
| Dunnico, H. | March, S. | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Edwards, John H. (Accrington) | Maxton, James | Welsh, J. C. |
| Evans, Capt. Ernest (Welsh Univer.) | Mitchell, E. Rosslyn (Paisley) | Westwood, J. |
| Forrest, W. | Montague, Frederick | Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J. |
| Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. | Morris, R. H. | Whiteley, W. |
| Gibbins, Joseph | Murnin, H. | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| Gillett, George M. | Naylor, T. E. | Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham) |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Oliver, George Harold | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
| Graham, Rt. Hon. Wm. (Edin., Cent.) | Palin, John Henry | Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| Greenall, T. | Paling, W. | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | Ponsonby, Arthur | Windsor, Walter |
| Groves, T. | Potts, John S. | Wright, W. |
| Grundy, T. W. | Roes, Sir Beddoe | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Guest, J. (York, Hemsworth) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | |
| Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | Riley, Ben | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Ritson, J. | Mr. Charles Edwards and Mr. |
| Warne. |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Burgoyne, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Alan | Dean, Arthur Wellesley |
| Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. | Butler, Sir Geoffrey | Drewe, C. |
| Alexander, Sir Wm. (Glasgow, Centr'l) | Cassels, J. D. | Edmondson, Major A. J. |
| Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W. Derby) | Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) | Elliott, Captain Walter E. |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) |
| Ashley Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord H. (Ox. Univ.) | Everard, W. Lindsay |
| Astor, Mai. Hn. John J. (Kent, Dover) | Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Fairfax, Captain J. G. |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Chapman, Sir S. | Fermoy, Lord |
| Atkinson, C. | Charteris, Brigadler-General J. | Fielden, E. B. |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Chilcott, Sir Warden | Finburgh, S. |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Christie, J. A. | Fleming, D. p. |
| Barclay-Harvey C. M. | Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer | Foster, Sir Harry S. |
| Barnett, Major Sir Richard | Churchman, Sir Arthur C. | Fremantle, Lt.-Col. Francis E. |
| Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) | Clarry, Reginald George | Gadie, Lieut.-Col. Anthony |
| Bennett, A. J. | Cockerill, Brigadier-General G. K. | Galbraith, J. F. W. |
| Bantinck, Lord Henry Cavendish- | Collox, Major Wm. Phillips | Ganzoni, Sir John |
| Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) | Conway, Sir W. Martin | Gates, Percy |
| Blades, Sir George Rowland | Cooper, A. Duff | Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton |
| Blundell, F. N. | Cope, Major William | Gee, Captain R. |
| Boothby, R. J. G. | Couper, J. B. | Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Courtauld, Major J. S. | Glyn, Major R. G. C. |
| Bowater, Sir T. Vansittart | Courthope, Lieut.-Col. Sir George L. | Goft, Sir Park |
| Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. | Craig, Capt. Rt. Hon. C. C. (Antrim) | Gower, Sir Robert |
| Brass, Captain W. | Craig, Ernest (Chester, Crewe) | Grace, John |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Craik, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Greene, W. P. Crawford |
| Briggs, J. Harold | Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) | Greenwood, William (Stockport) |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) | Grotrian, H. Brent |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Cunliffe, Joseph Herbert | Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. F. E. (Bristol, N.) |
| Brocklebank, C. E. R. | Curtis-Bennett, Sir Henry | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. |
| Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. | Curzon, Captain Viscount | Gunston, Captain D. W. |
| Broun-Lindsay, Major H. | Dalkeith, Earl of | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. |
| Buckingham, Sir H. | Davidson, Major-General Sir John H. | Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) |
| Bullock, Captain M. | Davies, A. V. (Lancaster, Royton) | Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) |
| Hammersley, S. S. | Marriott, Sir J. A. R. | Sandon, Lord |
| Harland, A. | Mason, Lieut.-Colonel Glyn K. | Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. |
| Harrison, G. J. C. | Meller, R. J. | Scott, Sir Leslie (Liverp'l, Exchange) |
| Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) | Merriman, F. B. | Shaw, Lt.-Col. A. D. Mcl. (Renfrew, W) |
| Haslam, Henry C. | Meyer, Sir Frank | Shaw, Capt. W. W. (Wilts, Westb'y) |
| Hawke, John Anthony | Milne, J. S. Wardlaw- | Shepperson, E. W. |
| Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. | Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) | Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down) |
| Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle) | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. | Slaney, Major P. Kenyon |
| Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. | Moore, Sir Newton J. | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Henn, Sir Sydney H. | Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. (Ayr) | Smithers, Waldron |
| Hennessy, Major J. R. G. | Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Henniker-Hughan, Vice-Adm. Sir A. | Morden, Colonel Walter Grant | Sprot, Sir Alexander |
| Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Moreing, Captain A. H. | Stanley, Lord (Fylde) |
| Hilton, Cecil | Morrison, H. (Wilts, Salisbury) | Stanley, Col. Hon. G. F.(Will'sden, E.) |
| Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. C. | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive | Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) |
| Hohler, Sir Gerald Fitzroy | Murchison, C. K. | Steel, Major Samuel Strang |
| Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard | Nail, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Joseph | Storry Deans, R. |
| Holland, Sir Arthur | Neville, R. J. | Strickland, Sir Gerald |
| Holt, Captain H. P. | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C. |
| Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid |
| Howard, Capt. Hon. D. (Cumb., N.) | Nicholson, O. (Westminster) | Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H. |
| Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Nuttall, Ellis | Tompleton, W. P. |
| Hudson, R. S. (Cumberland, Whiteh'n) | O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) |
| Hume-Williams, Sir W. Ellis | O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Hugh | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P. |
| Hutchison, G. A. Clark (Midl'n & P'bl's) | Oakley, T. | Waddington, R. |
| Iliffe, Sir Edward M. | Oman, Sir Charles William C. | Wallace, Captain D. E. |
| Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William | Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L. (Kingston-on-Hull) |
| Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. | Pennefather, Sir John | Warner, Brigadier-General W. W. |
| Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) | Penny, Frederick George | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Jacob, A. E. | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) |
| Kennedy, A. R. (Preston). | Perkins, Colonel E. K. | Watts, Dr. T. |
| Kidd, J. (Linlithgow) | Peto, Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Wells, S. R. |
| King, Captain Henry Douglas | Pilcher, G. | Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay) |
| Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Power, Sir John Cecil | Williams, Herbert G. (Reading) |
| Lamb, J. Q. | Preston, William | Wilson, Sir C. H. (Leeds, Central) |
| Loder, J. de V. | Radford, E. A. | Wilson, M. J. (York, N. R., Richm'd) |
| Looker, Herbert William | Rawson, Alfred Cooper | Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield) |
| Lougher, L. | Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington) | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Reid, D. D. (County Down) | Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl |
| Lumley, L. R. | Remer, J. R. | Wise, Sir Fredric |
| Lynn, Sir Robert J. | Rentoul, G. S. | Womersley, W. J. |
| Maitland, Sir Arthur D. steel- | Rhys, Hon. C. A. U. | Wood, E. (Chest'r, Stalyb'dge & Hyde) |
| McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus | Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford) | Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.). |
| McLean, Major A. | Ruggles-Brise, Major E. A. | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. |
| Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) | |
| Macquisten, F. A. | Rye, F. G. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Mac Robert, Alexander M. | Salmon, Major I. | Sir Harry Barnston and Mr. |
| Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn | Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) | Frederick Thompson. |
| Margesson, Captain D. | Sanders, Sir Robert A. |
§ Mr. SNOWDENI would like to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he has any statement to make as to how far he would like to go to-night?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLI understand, after a good many discussions which have taken place, that the Liberal party are very anxious that the Debate to-morrow shall begin on the proposal that was made to exempt agricultural land from the scope of the increased Death Duties—that that should be the first feature to-morrow, and that was really understood in the conversation which took place across the Table at Question time. Then there is a wish on their part to discuss, I believe, two other new Clauses. The first deals with the question of the Income Tax allowance to a widowed mother, and the second with the exemption of agricultural shows from the scope of the Entertainments Duty. This is subject to these Clauses being discussed after the main Debate has taken place on the 450 points of substance contained in the Clause dealing with the taxation of agricultural land. It is not thought that, after the Debate on agricultural land has taken place these two Clauses will take very long, and we expect to finish the new Clauses by a quarter past eight o'clock. After that we shall get to the consideration of the First Schedule, which we hope will be concluded at a reasonable hour. As far as to-night is concerned there would be a disposition to conclude the Debate after taking certain test questions upon which the Committee wishes to express an opinion, and we should not sit beyond 12.15
§ Mr. SNOWDENThen I understand that, after the progress we may have made during the next three-quarters of an hour, the right hon. Gentleman will report Progress about 12.15.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLWe wish to make progress with the new Clauses, in order to 451 clear the way for the discussion on agricultural properties and the increased Death Duties to-morrow. Those are the controversial issues which have been challenged, and we shall give every facility for the Opposition to state their views.
§ Sir CLEMENT KINLOCH-COOKEShall I have an opportunity of discussing the New Clause standing in my name, dealing with the widows and orphans?
§ Mr. CHURCHILLOf course, I cannot give any guarantee on that point, but I will discuss it with my hon. Friend.
Captain BENNWe have put down a number of proposals in the form of New Clauses, and we were looking forward to doing a public service by moving them tonight. I am aware that this would take a long time. We propose, however, to make a sacrifice, and we shall not move those New Clauses out of a desire not to keep the House sitting too long, providing that the sacrifice is reciprocal and that we are given an opportunity of moving certain New Clauses after the discussion on the Agricultural Land Clause. In view of the importance of the Silk Duties, we shall require an opportunity to press forward our objections to that tax.
§ Sir LESLIE SCOTTI have down on the Order Paper a very important New Clause providing for a lower rate of tax on companies' profits not distributed to shareholders but which are used for the development of the concerns. I recognise the great strain upon the House by the necessity of sitting late night after night, and I shall be glad to fall in with the suggestion not to deal with that Clause to-night if I am afforded an opportunity of dealing with it on the Report stage.
The CHAIRMANI must point out to the hon. and learned Gentleman that there are other New Clauses on the Paper dealing with the same subject.
§ Mr. SNOWDENIt is quite clear, after what the hon. and gallant Member for Leith (Captain Benn) has said, that the question whether there is to be a late sitting to-night or not rests entirely with hon. Members opposite. There are three or four pages of Amendments in the names of hon. Members on that side, and, therefore, if they make the same concession that has been made by us and by the hon. and gallant Member for Leith, then I think 452 we might follow the course the Chancellor of the Exchequer has mentioned; but, if hon. Members opposite will not fall in with that, it is clear that we are in for another very long sitting.
§ Mr. S. ROBERTSIs all the sacrifice of time to be made by us?
The CHAIRMANThis discussion is really rather irregular. There is no Question before the Committee. The suggestion was thrown out, but it cannot become a Debate.
§ Mr. CHURCHILLOf course, there are on the Paper to-night proposals which, if they were discussed, would, without any obstruction, occupy not merely a night but two or three nights. There is no doubt about that. I think it is the wish of the Committee that we should endeavour to keep our business within a reasonable length, and select particular issues upon which controversy is least. I quite agree that there are several Amendments of importance which have been put down by Members on this side of the Committee, and I think one or two of these could be disposed of in the short time that remains, agreeably with other proposals from the other side. The proposed new Clause to which reference has been made by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for the Exchange Division of Liverpool (Sir L. Scott) is one to which I think great importance is attached on the other side of the Committee, and I understand that a proposal has been made by the Opposition that there should be a careful discussion upon it during the Report stage. That covers my hon. and learned Friend's proposition. I feel that if we go forward in the general mood in which the Committee is at the present time, we shall dispose of the principal points in the business before a quarter past 12, and it is only in the event of that failing that we shall be forced to consider the other alternative. I quite agree that, if all the Amendments on one side of the Committee are to be proposed, you can-not demand that none should be proposed from the other side. Very few Amendments have been put forward from this side of the Committee, and there are two or three which I think raise no great controversial issues, and which might be disposed of between now and the time when we should like to bring our proceedings to a close.