§ Section twenty-one of the Finance Act, 1920 (which provides for a deduction from assessable income in respect of children) shall have effect as if for the words "thirty-six pounds" and "twenty-seven pounds" there were substituted respectively, the words "fifty pounds" and "forty pounds."—[Mr. Viant.]
§ Brought up, and read the First time.
§ Mr. VIANTI beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
The principle embodied in the Clause will commend itself, I hope, to the majority of this Committee. The majority of Members present who have at the present time young families, will appreciate the difficulties which confront parents in training and rearing young families. The net result of the Clause would be that, for the first child, there would be an increased allowance of £14, and for the second £13. The majority of parents, we know, are desirous of giving their children all the opportunities they can to improve their education, and we feel that this Committee would be justified in showing its appreciation of such desire on the part of parents in a practical way, by adopting this Clause. Furthermore, we feel that as concessions have been already made to those who are already well blessed with this world's goods, a concession of this kind would at least do something to allay the irritation that 386 might be caused by the concessions already made. I hope, therefore, this Clause will commend itself to the Committee, and to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.
The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the TREASURY (Mr. Guinness)The hon. Member who has moved this Clause has dealt with it from the point of view of a particular grievance rather than in relation to the whole system of allowances, and it is well to remind the Committee that those allowances were adopted as a result of a very exhaustive inquiry held by a strong Royal Commission. We have in our Income Tax code now practically the whole system they recommended, and my right hon. Friend has gone even further this year in the direction of alleviating the burden on small incomes for such objects as the bringing up of young families, in the additional advantages which he has given by his remissions in the lower scale, and I am afraid we cannot make any further concessions. This particular proposal would cost £900,000 in the current year, and £2,500,000 in a full year.
§ 8.0 P.M.
§ Mr. DALTONI am afraid it is hopeless to appeal to the Government to reconsider the decision reached, but I wish to submit one further consideration. We have criticised reductions in the Income Tax standard rate on the ground that they involve giving a large relief to the 387 rich than to the poor, but I submit this Clause would have the effect, not of giving a larger relief to the rich than to the poor, but of giving equal relief to all. That is to say, a man and wife with three children, for example, would get exactly the same relief in terms of money, whatever their income might be, provided they were above the Income Tax limit. On that general ground, that it is undesirable to give greater relief to the rich than to the poor, I would point out that one way of giving relief and not falling into that objectionable method would be found in
§ accepting an Amendment on these lines. The Financial Secretary tells us that the cost of a full year would be £2,500,000. That is only about a halfpenny in the £ on Income Tax. It would be very much more satisfactory, from the point of view of the balance of benefits between different sections of the community, to give some measure of relief along those lines, even if it meant giving rather less relief under the standard rate.
§ Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 137; Noes, 257.
389| Division No. 161.] | AYES. | [8.3 p.m. |
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Hall, F. (York. W. R., Normanton) | Salter, Dr. Alfred |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Scrymgeour, E. |
| Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) | Scurr, John |
| Ammon, Charles George | Hardie, George D. | Sexton, James |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Shiels, Or. Drummond |
| Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Hayday, Arthur | Short, Alfred (Wednesday) |
| Baker, Walter | Henderson, Right Hon. A. (Burnley) | Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness) |
| Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) | Hirst, G. H. | Smillie, Robert |
| Barnes, A. | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) |
| Barr, J. | Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) | Smith, H. B. Lees Keighley) |
| Batey, Joseph | Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) | Smith, Rennie (Penistone) |
| Beckett, John (Gateshead) | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Spencer, George A. (Broxtowe) |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) | Stamford, T. W. |
| Briant, Frank | Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) | Stephen, Campbell |
| Broad, F. A. | Jones. J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) | Sutton, J. E. |
| Bromfield, William | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Taylor, R. A. |
| Bromley, J. | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) | Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby) |
| Buchanan, G. | Kelly, W. T. | Thomas, Sir Robert John (Anglesey) |
| Cape, Thomas | Kennedy, T. | Thomson, Trevelyan (Middlesbro, W.) |
| Charleton, H. C. | Kenyon, Barnet | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton), E.) |
| Clowes, S. | Kirkwood, D. | Thurtle, E. |
| Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) | Lansbury, George | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Compton, Joseph | Lawson, John James | Varley, Frank B. |
| Cove, W. G. | Livingstone, A. M. | Viant, S. P. |
| Crawfurd, H. E. | Lowth, T. | Wallhead, Richard C. |
| Dalton, Hugh | Lunn, William | Warne, G. H. |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline) |
| Day, Colonel Harry | March, S. | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Duckworth, John | Maxton, James | Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney |
| Duncan, C. | Montague, Frederick | Welsh, J. C. |
| Edwards, John H. (Accrington) | Morris, R. H. | Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J. |
| England, Colonel A. | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) | Whiteley, W. |
| Forrest, W. | Murnin, H. | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| George, Rt. Hon. David Lloyd | Palin, John Henry | Williams, C. P. (Denbigh, Wrexham) |
| Gibbins, Joseph | Paling, W. | Williams, David (Swansea, East) |
| Gillett, George M. | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| Gosling, Harry | Ponsonby, Arthur | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Potts, John S. | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Greenall, T. | Rees, Sir Beddoe | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Windson, Walter |
| Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Riley, Ben | Wright, W. |
| Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | Ritson, J. | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Groves, T. | Robertson, J. (Lanark, Bothwell) | |
| Grundy, T. W. | Robinson, Sir T. (Lancs., Stretford) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Guest, J. (York, Hemsworth) | Robinson, W. C. (Yorks, W. R., Elland) | Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. |
| Guest, Dr. L. Haden (Southwark, N.) | Saklatvala, Shapurji | Hayes. |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Atkinson, C. | Berry, Sir George |
| Agg-Gardner, Rt. Hon. Sir James T. | Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) |
| Albery, Irving James | Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Blades, Sir George Rowland |
| Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W. Derby) | Banks, Reginald Mitchell | Blundell, F. N. |
| Applin, Colonel R. V. K. | Barclay-Harvey, C. M. | Bourne, Captain Robert Croft. |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Wilfrid W. | Barnett, Major Sir Richard | Bowater, Sir T. Vansittart |
| Astor, Maj. Hn. John J. (Kent, Dover) | Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) | Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Bennett, A. J. | Brass, Captain W. |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Greene, W. P. Crawford | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) |
| Briggs, J. Harold | Gretton, Colonel John | Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Grotrian, H. Brent | Nuttall, Ellis |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. F. E. (Bristol, N.) | Oakley, T. |
| Brocklebank, C. E. R. | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. | O'Connor, T. J. (Bedford, Luton) |
| Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. | Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Oman, Sir Charles William C. |
| Broun-Lindsay, Major H. | Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) | Pennefather, Sir John |
| Buckingham, Sir H. | Harland, A. | Penny, Frederick George |
| Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Harrison, G. J. C. | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) |
| Bullock, Captain M. | Harvey, G. (Lambeth, Kennington) | Perkins, Colonel E. K. |
| Burman, J. B. | Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) | Perring, William George |
| Burton, Colonel H. W. | Haslam, Henry C. | Peto, Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) |
| Butler, Sir Geoffrey | Hawke, John Anthony | Pilcher, G. |
| Cadogan, Major Hon. Edward | Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. | Pilditch, Sir Philip |
| Campbell, E. T. | Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle) | Preston, William |
| Cassels, J. D. | Heneage, Lieut.-Col. Arthur P. | Radford, E. A. |
| Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) | Henn, Sir Sydney H. | Ramsden, E. |
| Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Hennessy, Major J. R. G. | Rawson, Alfred Cooper |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) | Henniker-Hughan, Vice-Adm. Sir A. | Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington) |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord H. (Ox. Univ.) | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Reid, D. D. (County Down) |
| Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Hilton, Cecil | Remer, J. R. |
| Chapman, Sir S. | Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard | Remnant, Sir James |
| Charteris, Brigadier-General J. | Holland, Sir Arthur | Rhys, Hon. C. A. U. |
| Chilcott, Sir Warden | Holt, Capt. H. P. | Rice, Sir Frederick |
| Christie, J. A. | Hope, Capt. A. O. J. (Warw'k, Nun.) | Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hertford) |
| Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston Spencer | Hope, Sir Harry (Forfar) | Ruggles-Brise, Major E. A. |
| Churchman, Sir Arthur C. | Hopkins, J. W. W. | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) |
| Clarry, Reginald George | Howard, Captain Hon. Donald | Rye, F. G. |
| Cobb, Sir Cyril | Hume, Sir G. H. | Salmon, Major I. |
| Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. | Hume-Williams, Sir W. Ellis | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Cockerill, Brigadier-General G. K. | Hurd, Percy A. | Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) |
| Cohen, Major J. Brunel | Hutchison, G. A. Clark (Midl'n & P'bl's) | Sandeman, A. Stewart |
| Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips | Hiffe, Sir Edward M. | Sandon, Lord |
| Cooper, A. Duff | Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. | Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. |
| Cope, Major William | Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. | Shaw, Lt.-Col. A. D. Mcl. (Renfrew, W) |
| Courtauld, Major J. S. | Jacob, A. E. | Shaw, Capt. W. W. (Wilts, Westb'y) |
| Courthope, Lieut.-Col. Sir George L. | Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington) | Shepperson, E. W. |
| Craig, Ernest (Chester, Crewe) | Joynson-Hicks, Rt. Hon. Sir William | Simms, Dr. John M. (Co. Down) |
| Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | Kennedy, A. R. (Preston) | Skelton, A. N. |
| Crook, C. W. | Kidd, J. (Linlithgow) | Slaney, Major P. Kenyon |
| Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) | Kindersley, Major Guy M. | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Crookshank, Col. C. de W. (Berwick) | King, Captain Henry Douglas | Smithers, Waldron |
| Crooksnank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro) | Lamb, J. Q. | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Cunliffe, Joseph Herbert | Little, Dr. E. Graham | Sprot, Sir Alexander |
| Curtis-Bennett, Sir Henry | Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (Handsw'th) | Stanley, Col. Hon. G.F. (Will'sden, E.) |
| Curzon, Captain Viscount | Loder, J. de V. | Stanley, Lord (Fylde) |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Looker, Herbert William | Stanley. Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) |
| Dalziel, Sir Davison | Lougher, L. | Steel, Major Samuel Strang |
| Davidson, J. (Hertf'd, Hemel Hempst'd) | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Storry, Deans, R. |
| Davidson, Major-General Sir John H. | Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Strickland, Sir Gerald |
| Davies, A. V. (Lancaster, Royton) | Lumley, L. R. | Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C. |
| Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) | Lynn, Sir Robert J. | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid |
| Dean, Arthur Wellesley | McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus | Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H. |
| Drewe, C. | McLean, Major A. | Templeton, W. P. |
| Edmondson, Major A. J. | Macquisten, F. A. | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) |
| Elliott, Captain Walter E. | Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel- | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) |
| Ellis, R. G. | MacRobert, Alexander M. | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P. |
| Elveden, Viscount | Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn | Waddington, R. |
| Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s-M.) | Margesson, Captain D. | Wallace, Captain D. E. |
| Everard, W. Lindsay | Marriott, Sir J. A. R. | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Fairfax, Captain J. G. | Meller, R. J. | Watts, Dr. T. |
| Falle, Sir Bertram G. | Merriman, F. B. | Wells, S. R. |
| Fermoy, Lord | Meyer, Sir Frank | White, Lieut.-Colonel G. Dairymple |
| Fielden, E. B. | Milne, J. S. Wardlaw- | Williams, Com. C. (Devon, Torquay) |
| Finburgh, S. | Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) | Wilson, Sir C. H. (Leeds, Central) |
| Fleming, D. P. | Mitchell, W. Foot (Saffron Walden) | Wilson, M. J. (York, N. R., Richm'd) |
| Foster, Sir Harry S. | Mores, Thomas | Wilson, R. R. (Stafford, Lichfield) |
| Foxcroft, Captain C. T. | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Moore, Sir Newton J. | Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl |
| Gadle, Lieut.-Col. Anthony | Moore, Lieut.-Colonel T. C. R. | Wise, Sir Fredric |
| Galbraith, J. F. W. | Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Ganzoni, Sir John | Morden, Col. W. Grant | Womersley, W. J. |
| Gates, Percy | Moreing, Captain A. H. | Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.). |
| Gault, Lieut.-Col. Andrew Hamilton | Morrison, H. (Wilts, Salisbury) | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. |
| Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive | Young, E. Hilton (Norwich) |
| Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Murchison, C. K. | |
| Gower, Sir Robert | Nail, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Joseph | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Grace, John | Neville, R. J. | Major Sir Harry Barnston and |
| Grant, J. A. | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) | Captain Douglas Hacking. |