§ Mr. RAMSAY MacDONALDCan the Foreign Secretary say what business will be taken next week?
§ Mr. A. CHAMBERLAINOn Monday, we shall take the Board of Trade Vote. After 11 o'clock we hope the House will be willing to give, without any prolonged discussion, the Second Reading of the Mining Industry (Welfare Fund) Bill. We understand that this is a Bill which is practically an agreed Bill, and we hope, without any undue demands on the Members, that it may be taken after 11 o'clock.
§ On Tuesday, we propose to take the Second Reading of the Unemployment Insurance Bill.
2807§ Wednesday: Supply—Ministry of Labour Vote.
§ Thursday: Supply—India Office Vote.
§ Friday: Unemployment Insurance Money Resolution Committee, and other Orders to be announced later.
§ Mr. MacDONALDIn regard to the business on Tuesday, the Second Reading of the Unemployment Insurance Bill—I must apologise for not having given private notice of this question—do not the Government take the view that it is necessary that we should have an actuarial report upon this Bill, because so much depends upon the actuarial estimates as to what effect the Bill has upon the position of the fund. Would the Government be good enough to circulate an actuarial report on this Bill before we discuss it on Tuesday?
§ Mr. CHAMBERLAINI have not been personally informed, but I understand from my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Labour (Mr. Betterton) that an actuarial report will be published before the debate.
§ Mr. MacDONALDCan we have it on Monday?
§ Mr. CHAMBERLAINMy hon. Friend will undertake to do his best to expedite the publication for Monday.
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEWould it be possible to get some statement of that kind before we discuss the contributions under the Pensions Bill? It seems to me impossible for us to discuss that Bill properly without knowing the bearing of the figures in the Unemployment Insurance Bill upon the liability which the country undertakes under the Pensions Bill. Would it be possible to get some estimate of what the expense will be, and what will be the bearing of the other Bill upon the contributions in the Bill now in Committee?
§ Mr. CHAMBERLAINI am afraid I do not follow the question of my right hon. Friend. He is referring now to a different Bill If my right hon. Friend will be good enough to do so, perhaps it would be better for him to address his 2808 question to the Minister in charge of the Bill, and discuss with him what should be done.
§ Mr. SPENCERCan the right hon. Gentleman say whether it is the intention of the Government to put down the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries Vote before the rising of the House?
§ Mr. A. CHAMBERLAINI understand that that depends rather upon the conduct or attitude of the Opposition or Oppositions than upon the wishes of the Government.
§ Mr. LLOYD GEORGEThe right hon. Gentleman has not understood my question. May I ask the Minister of Health, who is fully informed upon the subject and who knows the bearing of the question which I put, whether it would be possible for the House to have information as to what will be the actuarial effect of the Unemployment Insurance Bill upon the estimates of the Government in regard to the Pensions Bill now in Committee, before we discuss the contributions?
§ Mr. NEVILLE CHAMBERLAINThe Unemployment Insurance Bill does not affect the Pensions Bill. It has nothing to do with it. It is true that the reduced contributions which we propose under the Unemployment Insurance Bill may be taken into consideration when we are talking about the burdens and the effects on industry, but we have already settled the financial arrangements of the Pensions Bill by the Financial Resolution.
§ Mr. A. V. ALEXANDERIn debate the right hon. Member said that the benefits of the Pension Bill would be given for a reduced contribution from the employer and from the employé, leaving the House to suppose that the reductions made in the other Bill were made specifically for the purpose of the Pensions Bill, of which he is in charge. Therefore, does he not consider that the point is of very great moment, and that it is very necessary for the consideration of the Bill that we should have some information as to what will be the effect upon the pensions of the new unemployment insurance proposals?
§ Mr. N. CHAMBERLAINNo further information is required. All the information with regard to contributions is already at the disposal of the House.
§
Motion made, and Question put,
That other Government Business have precedence this day of the Business of Supply, and that the Proceedings on the Widows', Orphans', and Old Age Contributory Pensions Bill, and on any Private Business set down for consideration at a quarter-past Eight o'clock this evening by direction of the Chairman of Ways and
§
Means, be exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House), and that, notwithstanding anything in Standing Order No. 8, the Proceedings on any such Private Business may be taken after half-past Nine of the Clock.
§ The House divided: Ayes, 231; Noes, 124.
2811| Division No. 251.] | AYES. | [3.52 p.m. |
| Acland-Troyte, Lieut.-Colonel | Dixey, A. C. | Lynn, Sir R. J. |
| Agg-Gardner, Bt. Hon. Sir James T. | Edmondson, Major A. J. | MacAndrew, Charles Glen |
| Albery, Irving James | Edwards, John H. (Accrington) | Macdonald, Capt. P. D. (I. of W.) |
| Alexander, Sir Wm. (Glasgow, Cent'l) | Elliot, Captain Walter E. | McDonnell, Colonel Hon. Angus |
| Allen, J. Sandeman (L'pool, W. Derby) | Elveden, Viscount | McLean, Major A. |
| Astor, Viscountess | England, Colonel A. | Maitland, Sir Arthur D. Steel- |
| Atkinson, C. | Erskine, Lord (Somerset, Weston-s.-M.) | Makins, Brigadier-General E. |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith | Manningham-Buller, Sir Mervyn |
| Balniel, Lord | Evans, Captain A. (Cardiff, South) | Meyer, Sir Frank |
| Barclay-Harvey, C. M. | Fairfax, Captain J. G. | Milne, J. S. Wardlaw- |
| Barnston, Major Sir Harry | Fade, Sir Bertram G. | Mitchell, S. (Lanark, Lanark) |
| Beamish, Captain T. P. H. | Fanshawe, Commander G. D. | Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) |
| Beckett, Sir Gervase (Leeds, N. | Fermoy, Lord | Moles, Thomas |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. | Fielden, E. B. | Monsell, Eyres, Com. Rt. Hon. B. M. |
| Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) | Finburgh, S. | Moore, Sir Newton J. |
| Bennett, A. J. | Fleming, D. P. | Morrison-Bell, Sir Arthur Clive |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish- | Forestier-Walker, Sir L. | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) |
| Berry, Sir George | Foxcroft, Captain C. T. | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) |
| Bethell, A. | Frece, Sir Walter de | Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Nuttall, Ellis |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Gates, Percy | Oakley, T. |
| Bird, E. R. (Yorks, W. R., Skipton) | Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham | O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Hugh |
| Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton, W.) | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William |
| Blades, Sir George Rowland | Glyn, Major R. G. C. | Pennefather, Sir John |
| Blundell, F. N. | Goff, Sir Park | Penny, Frederick George |
| Bourne, Captain Robert Croft | Grace, John | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) |
| Bowater, Sir T. Vansittart | Greene, W. P. Crawford | Perkins, Colonel E. K. |
| Bowyer. Capt. G. E. W. | Grotrian, H. Brent | Peto, Basil E. (Devon, Barnstaple) |
| Boyd-Carpenter, Major A. | Guinness, Rt. Hon. Walter E. | Power, Sir John Cecil |
| Brass, Captain W. | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton |
| Brassey, Sir Leonard | Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Preston, William |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Hall, Capt. W. D'A. (Brecon & Rad.) | Price, Major C. W. M. |
| Briggs, J. Harold | Hammersley, S. S. | Raine, W. |
| Briscoe, Richard George | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Ramsden, E. |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Harvey, Major S. E. (Devon, Totnes) | Rawson, Alfred Cooper |
| Brooke, Brigadier-General C. R. I. | Haslam, Henry C. | Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington) |
| Broun-Lindsay, Major H. | Headlam, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. | Rhys, Hon. C. A. U. |
| Brown Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Berks, Newb'y) | Henderson, Lieut.-Col. V. L. (Bootle) | Richardson, Sir P. W. (Sur'y, Ch'ts'y) |
| Bullock, Captain M. | Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel Arthur P. | Ruggles-Brise, Major E. A. |
| Burman, J. B. | Henn, Sir Sydney H. | Salmon, Major I. |
| Burton Colonel H. W. | Henniker-Hughan, Vice-Adm. Sir A. | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Campbell E. T. | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Sandeman, A. Stewart |
| Cautley, Sir Henry S. | Herberts. (York, N. R., Scar. & Wh'by) | Sanderson, Sir Frank |
| Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester. City) | Hogg, Rt. Hon. Sir D. (St. Marylebone) | Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D |
| Cazalet, Captain Victor A. | Holbrook, Sir Arthur Richard | Savery, S. S. |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) | Holt, Captain H. P. | Shaw, Capt. W. W. (Wilts, Westb'y) |
| Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Homan, C. W. J. | Sheffield, Sir Berkeley |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Birm, W.) | Howard, Capt. Hon. D. (Cumb., N.) | Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's Univ., Belfast) |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N.(Ladywood) | Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hackney, N.) | Skelton, A. N. |
| Charteris, Brigadier-General J. | Hudson, R. S. (Cumberland, Whiteh'n) | Smith, R. W. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, C.) |
| Christie, J. A. | Hurst, Gerald B. | Smithers, Waldron |
| Churchman, Sir Arthur C. | Hutchison, G. A. Clark (Midl'n & P'bl's) | Stanley, Col. Hon. G. F. (Will'sden, E.) |
| Clarry, Reginald George | Iliffe Sir Edward M. | Stanley, Lord (Fylde) |
| Cobb, Sir Cyril | Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. | Stanley, Hon. O. F. G. (Westm'eland) |
| Cochrane, Commander Hon. A. D. | Jackson, Sir H. (Wandsworth, Cen'l) | Steel, Major Samuel Strang |
| Cockerill, Brigadier-General G. K. | Jephcott, A. R. | Strickland, Sir Gerald |
| Cohen Major J. Brunei | Joynson-Hicks, Rt. Hon. Sir William | Stuart, Crichton-, Lord C. |
| Cooper, A. Duff | Kennedy, A. R. (Preston). | Styles, Captain H. Walter |
| Cope, Major William | Kidd, J. (Linlithgow) | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid |
| Couper, J. B. | King, Captain Henry Douglas | Tasker, Major R. Inigo |
| Craik, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Knox, Sir Alfred | Templeton, W. P. |
| Croft, Brigadier-General Sir H. | Lamb, J. Q. | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) |
| Crook, C. W. | Lane-Fox, Lieut.-Col. George R. | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, S.) |
| Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) | Leigh, Sir John (Clapham) | Tichfield, Major the Marquess of |
| Crookshank, Cpt. H. (Lindsey, Gainsbro) | Lister, Cunliffe-, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Curzon, Captain Viscount | Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) | Wallace, Captain D. E. |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) | Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L. (Kingston-on-Hull) |
| Davies, A. V. (Lancaster, Royton) | Looker, Herbert William | Warner, Brigadier-General W. W. |
| Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Warrender, Sir Victor |
| Davies, Sir Thomas (Cirencester) | Luce, Major-Gen. Sir Richard Harman | Waterhouse, Captain Charles |
| Dawson, Sir Philip | Lumley, L. R. | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) |
| Watts, Dr. T. | Wise, Sir Fredric | Wood, Sir S. Hill-(High Peak) |
| Wells, S. R. | Wolmer, Viscount | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. |
| Wheler, Major Sir Granville C. H. | Womersley, W. J. | Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L. |
| White, Lieut.-Colonel G. Dairymple | Wood, B. C. (Somerset, Bridgwater) | Wragg, Herbert |
| Williams, Herbert G. (Reading) | Wood, Rt. Hon. E. (York, W. R., Ripon) | |
| Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George | Wood, E. (Chest'r, Stalyb'ge & Hyde) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl | Wood, Sir Kingsley (Woolwich, W.) | Major Hennessy and Captain |
| Margesson. | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. W. (Fife, West) | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) | Ritson, J. |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Hardle, George D. | Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Bromwich) |
| Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') | Harney, E. A. | Robinson, W. C.(Yorks, W. R., Elland) |
| Ammon, Charles George | Harris, Percy A. | Rose, Frank H. |
| Attlee, Clement Richard | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter |
| Baker, J. (Wolverhampton, Bilston) | Hayes, John Henry | Salter, Dr. Alfred |
| Baker, Walter | Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Burnley) | Scrymgeour, E. |
| Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) | Henderson, T. (Glasgow) | Sexton, James |
| Barr, J. | Hirst, G. H. | Shiels, Dr. Drummond |
| Batey, Joseph | Hirst, W. (Bradford, South) | Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness) |
| Beckett, John (Gateshead) | Hore-Belisha, Leslie | Sitch, Charles H. |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Hudson, J. H. (Huddersfield) | Smith, H. B. Lees (Keighley) |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Hutchison, Sir Robert (Montrose) | Snell, Harry |
| Briant, Frank | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip |
| Broad, F. A. | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Spencer, George A. (Broxtowe) |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Johnston, Thomas (Dundee) | Stamford, T. W. |
| Buchanan, G. | Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) | Stephen, Campbell |
| Clowes, S. | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Sutton, J. E. |
| Cluse, W. S. | Kelly, W. T. | Taylor, R. A. |
| Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) | Kennedy, T. | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| Connolly, M. | Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M. | Thurtle, E. |
| Cove, W. G. | Kirkwood, D. | Tinker, John Joseph |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Lawson, John James | Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P. |
| Crawfurd, H. E. | Lee, F. | Viant, S. P. |
| Dalton, Hugh | Livingstone, A. M. | Walsh, Rt. Hon. Stephen |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Lunn, William | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline) |
| Day, Colonel Harry | MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon) | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Dennison, R. | Mackinder, W. | Webb, Rt. Hon. Sidney |
| Duncan, C. | MacLaren, Andrew | Westwood, J. |
| Dunnico, H. | March, S. | Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J. |
| Fenby, T. D. | Maxton, James | Whiteley, W. |
| Garro-Jones, Captain G. M. | Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred | Wiggins, William Martin |
| George, Rt. Hon. David Lloyd | Montague, Frederick | Wilkinson, Ellen C. |
| Gibbins, Joseph | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) | Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| Gillett, George M. | Naylor, T. E. | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Greenall, T. | Oliver, George Harold | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Palin, John Henry | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Paling, W. | Windsor, Walter |
| Groves, T. | Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Grundy, T. W. | Ponsonby, Arthur | |
| Guest, J. (York, Hemsworth) | Potts, John S. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Mr. Allen Parkinson and Mr. |
| Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Riley, Ben | Warne. |