§ Mr. BALDWINCan the Deputy Leader of the House state what the business next week will be, and perhaps at the same time he will be good enough to explain, when he moves his Resolution suspending the Eleven o'Clock Rule, what necessity there is for such a course?
§ Mr. CLYNESThe business for next week will be:
Monday: Supplementary Estimates; Trade Facilities Bill—Committee.
Tuesday: Navy Estimates, 1924–25; Move Mr. Speaker out of the Chair; Votes A, 1 and 10 in Committee.
Wednesday: Supplementary Estimates—Committee and Report stages.
Thursday: Air Estimates, 1924–25—Committee; Ways and Means Resolution—Committee; Army Estimates, 1924–25—Report.
§ Mr. BALDWINCan the right hon. Gentleman tell us the necessity for putting down his Motion for the Suspension of the Eleven o'Clock Rule?
§ Mr. CLYNESThe necessity is that of getting on with more of the business than as yet we have been able to do. I think the late Prime Minister, from his presence in the House, will have observed that public business is somewhat in arrears, and we think it advisable to seek the co-operation of the two sides of the House in the suspension of the Eleven o'Clock Rule, in order that certain matters should be got through to-night.
§ Mr. BALDWINIs the right hon. Gentleman not aware that the most obvious course is to take all the time of the House, and not to keep the House sitting late?
§ Mr. CLYNESIf this particular course, often, indeed always, taken by preceding Governments for a long time past, does not adequately serve the purpose, we shall, of course, be compelled, however reluctantly, to seek to take the time of private Members.
§ Mr. BALDWINIf the Motion should be carried, would the Deputy-Leader of the House tell us how far he proposes to proceed to-night?
§ Mr. CLYNESOnly with the Army Votes.
§ Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINWhat Army Votes?
Mr. VIVIAN PHILLIPPSDoes the right hon. Gentleman really think it reasonable to ask the House to sit after eleven o'clock, when he is not prepared to take the available time on all sittings of the House?
§ Mr. CLYNESI have always regarded work in this House after eleven o'clock as work at an unreasonable hour, but as the steps so far taken by the House collectively have prevented us getting ahead with business, we are driven, as other Governments have been driven, to move the suspension of the Eleven o'clock Rule.
§ Mr. CHAMBERLAINWill the right hon. Gentleman tell us why the Government do not adopt the ordinary course, pursued by all their predecessors in similar circumstances, namely, of taking private Members' time up to the end of the financial year?
§ Mr. CLYNESThe records in this regard show that custom has varied, that on certain occasions the Eleven o'Clock Rule has been suspended for certain purposes, that on some occasions private Members' time has been taken, while on other occasions both courses have been followed. For the moment, we are trying the former alternative.
§ Mr. CHAMBERLAINWhy does the right hon. Gentleman choose this particular course in these particular circumstances?
§ Mr. CLYNESI think it will be found that we are merely imitating the course taken by previous Governments.
§ Mr. MACPHERSONMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is actually proposed after 11 o'clock to take an 2559 Amendment for the reduction of the Army by 150,000 men?
§ Mr. CLYNESThat is not intended.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYIs it not a fact that if so much time had not been spent over Supplementary Estimates, incurred by the late Government and their supporters, this course would not be necessary now?
§ Mr. PRINGLEArising out of the answer which the right hon. Gentleman has just given, is the House to understand that the Amendment reducing the British Army will not be taken to-night after 11 o'clock? It stands in the name of 15 of the right hon. Gentleman's supporters.
§ Mr. CLYNESOur object in seeking the suspension of the Eleven o'Clock Rule is primarily to move Mr. Speaker out of the Chair.
§ Sir GRATTAN DOYLEMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman why, in the present instance, the Government persist in taking a course which is obviously against
§ the sense of the House, when, by adopting the other alternative, the House would be unanimously with them?
§ Mr. PRINGLEWill the right hon. Gentleman say whether the suspension of the Eleven o'Clock Rule to-night is merely for the purpose of getting Mr. Speaker out of the Chair?
§ Mr. PRINGLENo, he has not.
§ Mr. CLYNESYes—and for Vote A and the Vote on Account.
§ Mr. MACPHERSONMay I ask whether the Amendment for the reduction of the Army by 150,000 men will, therefore, not be taken?
§ Mr. CLYNESYes, and I understand the numbers are included in Vote A.
Motion made, and Question put, "That the proceedings on Government Business be exempted at this day's sitting from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)."—[Mr. Clynes.]
§ The House divided: Ayes, 207; Noes, 234.
2563| Division No. 25.] | AYES. | [4.1 p.m. |
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. William | Duncan, C. | Isaacs, G. A. |
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Dunnico, H. | Jackson, R. F. (Ipswich) |
| Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') | Edwards, G. (Norfolk, Southern) | Jenkins, W. (Glamorgan, Neath) |
| Alstead, R. | Egan, W. H. | Jewson, Dorothea |
| Ammon, Charles George | Emlyn-Jones, J. E. (Dorset, N.) | John, William (Rhondda, West) |
| Attlee, Major Clement R. | England, Lieut.-Colonel A. | Johnston, Thomas (Stirling) |
| Ayles, W. H. | Finney, V. H. | Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) |
| Baker, W. J. | Foot, Isaac | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) |
| Banton, G. | Gardner, B. W. (West Ham, Upton) | Jones, T. I. Mardy (Pontypridd) |
| Barclay, R. Noton | Gardner, J. P. (Hammersmith, North) | Jowett, Rt. Hon. F. W. (Bradford, E.) |
| Barnes, A. | Gavan-Duffy, Thomas | Kennedy, T. |
| Batey, Joseph | Gillett, George M. | Kenworthy, Lt.-Com. Hon. Joseph M. |
| Birkett, W. N. | Gosling, Harry | Kirkwood, D. |
| Black, J. W. | Gould, Frederick (Somerset, Frome) | Lansbury, George |
| Bondfield, Margaret | Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Law, A. |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Graham, W. (Edinburgh, Central) | Lawrence, Susan (East Ham, North) |
| Briant, Frank | Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Lawson, John James |
| Broad, F. A. | Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Leach, W. |
| Bromfield, William | Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) | Lee, F. |
| Brown, A. E. (Warwick, Rugby) | Groves, T. | Lessing, E. |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Grundy, T. W. | Linfield, F. C. |
| Buchanan, G. | Guest, J. (York, Hemsworth) | Livingstone, A. M. |
| Buckie, J. | Guest, Dr. L. Haden (Southwark, N.) | Loverseed, J. F. |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Noel | Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Lowth, T. |
| Cape, Thomas | Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) | Lunn, William |
| Chapple, Dr. William A. | Hardie, George D. | MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Aberavon) |
| Charleton, H. C. | Hartshorn, Rt. Hon. Vernon | M'Entee, V. L. |
| Church, Major A. G. | Hastings, Sir Patrick | Mackinder, W. |
| Clarke, A. | Hastings, Somerville (Reading) | Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) |
| Climie, R. | Haycock, A. W. | Maden, H. |
| Cluse, W. S. | Hayday, Arthur | March, S. |
| Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. | Hayes, John Henry (Edge Hill) | Marley, James |
| Compton, Joseph | Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Burnley) | Martin, W. H. (Dumbarton) |
| Cove, W. G. | Henderson, T. (Glasgow) | Maxton, James |
| Crittall, V. G. | Henderson, W. W. (Middlesex, Enfield) | Middleton, G. |
| Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Hillary, A. E. | Mills, J. E. |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Hirst, G. H. | Montague, Frederick |
| Dickson, T. | Hodge, Lieut.-Col. J. P. (Preston) | Morris, R. H. |
| Dodds, S. R. | Hodges, Frank | Morrison, Herbert (Hackney, South) |
| Dudgeon, Major C. R. | Hoffman, P. C. | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) |
| Dukes, C. | Hudson, J. H. | Mosley, Oswald |
| Muir, John W. | Sexton, James | Tout, W. J. |
| Murray, Robert | Shaw, Rt. Hon. Thomas (Preston) | Trevelyan, Rt. Hon. C. P. |
| Naylor, T. E. | Sherwood, George Henry | Turner, Ben |
| Nichol, Robert | Shinwell, Emanuel | Turner-Samuels, M. |
| Nixon, H. | Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) | Viant, S. P. |
| O'Grady, Captain James | Simpson, J. Hope | Wallhead, Richard C. |
| O'Neill, John Joseph | Sitch, Charles H. | Walsh, Rt. Hon. Stephen |
| Paling, W. | Smillie, Robert | Ward, G. (Leicester, Bosworth) |
| Palmer, E. T. | Smith, Ben (Bermondsey, Rotherhithe) | Warne, G. H. |
| Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) | Smith, T. (Pontefract) | Watson, W. M. (Dunfermline) |
| Perry, S. F. | Snell, Harry | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. | Snowden, Rt. Hon. Philip | Wedgwood, Col. Rt. Hon. Josiah C. |
| Ponsonby, Arthur | Spence, R. | Weir, L. M. |
| Potts, John S. | Spencer, George A. (Broxtowe) | Westwood, J. |
| Purcell, A. A. | Spero, Dr. G. E. | Wheatley, Rt. Hon. J. |
| Raffety, F. W. | Stamford, T. W. | White, H. G. (Birkenhead, E.) |
| Raynes, W. R. | Stephen, Campbell | Whiteley, W. |
| Richards, R. | Stewart, J. (St. Rollox) | Williams, David (Swansea, E.) |
| Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Sullivan, J. | Williams, Lt.-Col. T. S. B. (Kennington) |
| Ritson, J. | Sunlight, J. | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Bromwich) | Sutherland, Rt. Hon. Sir William | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Romeril, H. G. | Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby) | Wilson, R. J. (Jarrow) |
| Rose, Frank H. | Thompson, Piers G. (Torquay) | Windsor, Walter |
| Royce, William Stapleton | Thomson, Trevelyan (Middlesbro, W.) | Wintringham, Margaret |
| Royle, C. | Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow) | Wright, W. |
| Samuel, H. Walter (Swansea, West) | Thurtle, E. | Young, Andrew (Glasgow, Partick) |
| Scrymgeour, E. | Tillett, Benjamin | |
| Scurr, John | Tinker, John Joseph | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Seely, H. M. (Norfolk, Eastern) | Toole, J. | Mr. Spoor and Mr. Frederick Hall. |
| NOES. | ||
| Ackroyd, T. R. | Croft, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Henry Page | Horne, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead) |
| Acland, Rt. Hon. Francis Dyke | Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) | Howard, Hon. G. (Bedford, Luton) |
| Ainsworth, Captain Charles | Cunliffe, Joseph Herbert | Howard-Bury, Lieut.-Col. C. K. |
| Alexander, Brg.-Gen. Sir W. (Glas, C.) | Curzon, Captain Viscount | Hughes, Collingwood |
| Allen, R. Wilberforce (Leicester, S.) | Dalkeith, Earl of | Hume-Williams, Sir W. Ellis |
| Allen, Lieut.-Col. Sir William James | Davies, Maj. Geo. F. (Somerset, Yeovil) | Hutchison, W. (Kelvingrove) |
| Amery, Rt. Hon. Leopold C. M. S. | Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) | Iliffe, Sir Edward M. |
| Astor, Maj. Hn. John J. (Kent, Dover) | Dawson, Sir Philip | Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. |
| Atholl, Duchess of | Doyle, Sir N. Grattan | Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. |
| Baird, Major Rt. Hon. Sir John L. | Duckworth, John | James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Dunn, J. Freeman | Johnson, Sir L. (Walthamstow, E.) |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Eden, Captain Anthony | Johnstone, Harcourt (Willesden, East) |
| Barnett, Major Richard W. | Edmondson, Major A. J. | Jones, C. Sydney (Liverpool, W. Derby) |
| Beckett, Sir Gervase | Ednam, Viscount | Kay, Sir R. Newbald |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. | Elvedon, Viscount | Keens, T. |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith | Kindersley, Major G. M. |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish- | Falconer, J. | King, Captain Henry Douglas |
| Berkeley, Captain Reginald | Falle, Major Sir Bertram Godfray | Lamb, J. Q. |
| Berry, Sir George | Ferguson, H. | Laverack, F. J. |
| Betterton, Henry B. | FitzRoy, Capt. Rt. Hon. Edward A. | Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Fletcher, Lieut.-Com. R. T. H. | Lloyd-Greame, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip |
| Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton, W.) | Forestier-Walker, L. | Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) |
| Blades, Sir George Rowland | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Lord, Walter Greaves- |
| Blundell, F. N. | Galbraith, J. F. W. | Lorimer, H. D. |
| Bonwick, A. | Gates, Percy | Lumley, L. R. |
| Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. | Gaunt, Rear-Admiral Sir Guy R. | McCrae, Sir George |
| Briscoe, Captain Richard George | George, Major G. L. (Pembroke) | Macdonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness) |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Gilbert, James Daniel | MacDonald, R. |
| Buckingham, Sir H. | Gilmour, Colonel Rt. Hon. Sir John | Macfadyen, E. |
| Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Gray, Frank (Oxford) | McLean, Major A. |
| Bullock, Captain M. | Greene, W. P. Crawford | Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm |
| Burman, J. B. | Gretton, Colonel John | Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J. |
| Butler, Sir Geoffrey | Grigg, Lieut.-Col. Sir Edward W. M. | Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James L. |
| Caine, Gordon Hall | Guinness, Lieut.-Col. Rt. Hon. W. E. | Makins, Brigadier-General E. |
| Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R. | Gwynne, Rupert S. | Mansel, Sir Courtenay |
| Cassels, J. D. | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Marriott, Sir J. A. R. |
| Cautley, Sir Henry S. | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Martin, F. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, E.) |
| Cayzer, Sir C. (Chester, City) | Harbord, Arthur | Masterman, Rt. Hon. C. F. G. |
| Cayzer, Maj. Sir Herbt. R. (Prtsmth, S.) | Harland, A. | Meller, R. J. |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) | Hartington, Marquess of | Meyler, Lieut.-Colonel H. M. |
| Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Harvey, C. M. B. (Aberd'n & Kincardne) | Milne, J. S. Wardlaw |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Birm, W.) | Harvey, T. E. (Dewsbury) | Mitchell R. M. (Perth & Kinross, Perth) |
| Chapman, Sir S. | Henn, Sir Sydney H. | Mitchell, W. F. (Saffron Walden) |
| Chilcott, Sir Warden | Hennessy, Major J. R. G. | Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) |
| Clarry, Reginald George | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Mond, H. |
| Clayton, G. C. | Hill-Wood, Major Sir Samuel | Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. |
| Cobb, Sir Cyril | Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. | Morrison-Bell, Major Sir A. C. (Honiton) |
| Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips | Hobhouse, A. L. | Morse, W. E. |
| Cope, Major William | Hogg, Rt. Hon. Sir D. (St. Marylebone) | Nall, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Joseph |
| Courthope, Lieut.-Col. George L. | Hohler, Sir Gerald Fitzroy | Nesbitt, Robert C. |
| Craig, Captain C. C. (Antrim, South) | Hope, Rt. Hon. J. F. (Sheffield, C.) | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) |
| Craik, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Horlick, Lieut.-Colonel J. N. | Nield, Rt. Hon. Sir Herbert |
| Ormsby Gore, Hon. William | Russell, Alexander West (Tynemouth) | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Owen, Major G. | Russell-Wells, Sir S. (London Univ.) | Turton, Edmund Russborough |
| Pattinson, S. (Horncastle) | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) | Vaughan-Morgan, Col. K. P. |
| Pennefather, Sir John | Sandeman, A. Stewart | Ward, Lt.-Col. A. L. (Kingston on-Hull) |
| Penny, Frederick George | Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. | Warrender, Sir Victor |
| Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) | Savery, S. S. | Watson, Sir F. (Pudsey and Otley) |
| Perkins, Colonel E. K. | Scott, Sir Leslie (Liverp'l, Exchange) | Wells, S. R. |
| Philipson, Mabel | Sinclair, Major Sir A. (Caithness) | Wheler, Lieut.-Col. Granville C. H. |
| Phillipps, Vivian | Smith-Carington, Neville W. | Williams, A. (York, W. R., Sowerby) |
| Pielou, D. P. | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) | Williams, Maj. A. S. (Kent, Sevenoaks) |
| Pilkington, R. R. | Somerville, Daniel (Barrow-in-Furness) | Willison, H. |
| Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton | Spears, Brig.-Gen. E. L. | Wilson, Sir C. H. (Leeds, Central) |
| Pringle, W. M. R. | Spender-Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. | Wilson, Col. M. J. (Richmond) |
| Raine, W. | Starmer, Sir Charles | Wise, Sir Fredric |
| Ramage, Captain Cecil Beresford | Steel, Samuel Strang | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Rathbone, Hugh R. | Stranger, Innes Harold | Wood, Major Rt. Hon. Edward F. L. |
| Rea, W. Russell | Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Rees, Sir Beddoe | Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- | Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.) |
| Rees, Capt. J. T. (Devon, Barnstaple) | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser | Woodwark, Lieut.-Colonel G. G. |
| Reid, D. D. (County Down) | Sutcliffe, T. | Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L. |
| Rentoul, G. S. | Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H. | Wragg, Herbert |
| Rhys, Hon. C. A. U. | Tattersall, J. L. | Yate, Colonel Sir Charles Edward |
| Richardson, Lt.-Col. Sir P. (Chrtsy) | Terrell, Captain R. (Oxford, Henley) | Yerburgh, Major Robert D. T. |
| Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford) | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) | |
| Robertson, T. A. | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Ropner, Major L. | Thomson, Sir W. Mitchell-(Croydon, S.) | Commander Eyres Monsell and |
| Roundell, Colonel R. F. | Thornton, Maxwell R. | Colonel Gibbs. |
| Rudkin, Lieut.-Colonel C. M. C. |