§ (1) Where the purchase of any furniture or other articles is required as a condition of the grant, renewal, or continuance of a tenancy or sub-tenancy of a dwelling-house to which the principal Act applies, the price demanded shall be stated in writing, and if such price exceeds the reasonable price of the articles, the excess shall be treated as if it were a fine or premium required to be 1156 paid as a condition of the grant, renewal, or continuance, and the provisions of section eight of the principal Act, including penal provisions, shall apply accordingly.
§ (2) Where a tenant who by virtue of the principal Act retains possession of a dwelling-house to which that Act applies requires that furniture or other articles shall be purchased as a condition of giving up possession, the price demanded shall be stated in writing, and if such price exceeds the reasonable price of the articles the excess shall be treated as a sum asked to be paid as a condition of giving up possession, and the provisions of Sub-section (2) of Section fifteen of the principal Act (including penal provisions) shall apply accordingly.
§ Lords Amendment:
§
In Sub-section (1), after the word "shall" ["Act applies, the price demanded shall"], insert
at the request of the person on whom the demand is made.
Mr. CHAMBERLAINI beg to move, "That the House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
8.0 P.M.
An Amendment was inserted in Committee in this Clause of the Bill providing that the price of the furniture should be stated in writing. It does seem that that is going to be rather unnecessary. The landlord is negotiating with the tenant for a tenancy, and wishes to include a bargain about furniture. The tenant may be ready to make a bargain, and may not require to have the thing stated in writing as he is satisfied with the price. So long as this gives him power to demand that the price shall be stated in writing, if he requires it, that is all that he need ask for. In the second Amendment which follows, to leave out the word "such" and insert the word "the," if "such" is left in, that would apply only to written prices, and then there would be no compulsion for this Clause to apply at all.
§ Mr. GRIFFITHSI am very sorry that the Minister is allowing the House of Lords to alter completely the intention of the spirit of this Clause. During the Report stage, I moved this Amendment, which was accepted by the Minister as he thought that it was reasonable. We know from information which has come within our knowledge that there are speculators in houses and gamblers in houses, exactly as there are gamblers on the Stock Exchange. They have purchased a great 1157 many houses or flats in recent times. This alteration will mean that if you have a landlord who owns perhaps 100 flats or 100 houses, you will be imposing these conditions, before granting a renewal of a tenancy or a lease of a house, on the 100 tenants. Whereas the object of the previous Clause was to put the onus on the owner to state in writing the charge that he was going to make for furniture or other articles, by this alteration you are going to put the onus on the 100 people to make that request. There is a vast difference between the original Clause and this Clause. The result will be that if the landlord tells me to-night that he wants to charge so much for the furniture or for some other article or to put a premium on the key, and to-morrow I make a request that he shall put the price down in writing, he will say. "I have got another application from somebody else," and I am immediately thrown over, whereas in making a bargain with me under my Amendment he would be compelled to put down the price in writing in the first instance and he could not get out of it. I hope that the Minister will not accept this Amendment but will retain the Clause in its original form.
Mr. DAVIESThis is one of the most objectionable Amendments which have been sent down from the House of Lords. Neither the Minister nor anyone in another place gave any valid reason for inserting these words. I fail to understand why a man who enters into an agreement to take a tenancy of a house, in respect of which furniture is part of the contract, should ask for the price of the furniture in writing. In my view the price of the furniture should he stated to him without his having to make a demand that it should be stated. I presume that in another place they were thinking of the old adage that the Englishman's word is his bond, but I would remind the Minister that all property-owners are not Englishmen. Some are Welshmen and some are Scotsmen. I would also remind him that every English property-owner is not an angel. These words ought to be deleted. When a shopkeeper sells goods he states in writing the price of what he sells. If you are sufficiently well off to have a bank account, the balance to your credit is stated in writing. At the next General Election the Minister will not require 1158 to make a demand in writing as to what the result of the election is. He will get it without making such a demand. The price of the furniture should be stated in writing without any request from the tenant. I cannot understand why those who urge the acceptance of this Amendment should not give any reason for inserting these words. We view the matter in such a serious light that we propose to divide the House on the subject. I trust that the Minister will give us a little more explanation if he cannot accept the Clause as it left this House.
Mr. T. THOMSONThe Minister accepted very few Amendments in connection with this Bill, and in this case the other House has eliminated one of the Amendments which were accepted here. This Amendment is essentially one to protect the tenant. I can conceive that those in another place are not intimately acquainted with the letting and sub-letting of houses. Though on the face of it this Amendment seems innocent, it may seem unreasonable to ask that this should be put in writing without a request from the tenant, yet I would remind the Minister of the abuse which arose over key money, and that after key money was made difficult, if not illegal, then similar abuses continued and exorbitant prices were asked for fictitious furniture, and the poorest of the poor were robbed in a great many cases. This was put in to protect these people. Though they may have their legal protection, they are not fully acquainted with Acts of Parliament and they will not know that they have it in their power to request the owner to put the price in writing. We should protect them to the extent of insisting that they should have this put before them in writing. I would ask the Minister whether he will not reconsider the matter and join with us in resisting the Amendment.
§ Mr. SHINWELLI desire to support my hon. Friend the Member for Westhoughton (Mr. Rhys Davies). If this Amendment is accepted it will destroy the efficiency of the Clause, but the Cluase will be inoperative, unless it remains in the state in which it left this House. In the circumstances which will arise in a tenancy of this kind and the contracts which will be entered into between those who will desire a tenancy, which will include furniture, and those 1159 who wish to avails themselves of the tenancy, there is no possibility of the tenant demanding as a condition of the tenancy that the price of the furniture shall be stated in writing. The Clause as it left the House expressly implies that the furniture forms part of the factual tenancy, and if chat be so, I cannot understand why the right hon. Gentleman should seek to make a distinction between one part of the tenancy and another. If it is desirable that in the case of the
§ house itself the factual price at which it is let should be stated in writing, I cannot understand why the Brice of the other part of the tenancy, which is the furniture, should not be stated in writing. I submit, having regard to these facts, that the right hon. Gentleman should decline to accept the Amendment.
§ Question put, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 205; Noes, 133.
1161| Division No. 343.] | AYES. | [8.13 p.m. |
| Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte | Fawkes, Major F. H. | Mason, Lieut.-Col. C. K. |
| Ainsworth, Captain Charles | Fermor-Hesketh, Major T. | Mercer, Colonel H. |
| Alexander, E. E. (Leyton, East) | Flanagan, W. H. | Milne, J. S. Wardlaw |
| Alexander, Col. M. (Southwark) | Ford, Patrick Johnston | Mitchell, W. F. (Saffron Walden) |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Wilfrid W. | Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot | Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) |
| Baird, Rt. Hon. Sir John Lawrence | Fraser, Major Sir Keith | Molloy, Major L. G. S. |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Furness, G. J. | Moreing, Captain Algernon H. |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Ganzoni, Sir John | Morrison, Hugh (Wilts, Salisbury) |
| Barlow, Rt. Hon. Sir Montague | Garland, C. S. | Morrison-Bell, Major Sir A. C.(Honiton) |
| Barnett, Major Richard W. | Gibbs, Col. Rt. Hon. George Abraham | Murchison, C. K. |
| Barnston, Major Harry | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley) |
| Becker, Harry | Goff, Sir R. Park | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) |
| Bennett, Sir T. J. (Sevenoaks) | Gray, Harold (Cambridge) | Nicholson, Brig.-Gen. J. (Westminster) |
| Berry, Sir George | Greaves-Lord, Walter | O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Hugh |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Greenwood, William (Stockport) | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Gretton, Colonel John | Parker, Owen (Kettering) |
| Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. | Guinness, Lieut.-Col. Hon. W. E. | Pease, William Edwin |
| Boyd-Carpenter, Major A. | Gwynne, Rupert S. | Pennefather, De Fonblanque |
| Brass, Captain W. | Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Penny, Frederick George |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Hall, Rr-Adml.Sir W. (Liv'p'l,W. D'by) | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) |
| Briggs, Harold | Halstead, Major D. | Perkins, Colonel E. K. |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Perring, Gilliam George |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen. Clifton (Newbury) | Harrison, F. C. | Peto, Basil E. |
| Brown, J. W. (Middlesbrough, E.) | Hawke, John Anthony | Phillips, Mabel |
| Bruford, R. | Henn, Sir Sydney H. | Pielou, D. P. |
| Bruton, Sir James | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Pretyman, Rt. Hon. Ernest G. |
| Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. | Herbert, S. (Scarborough) | Privet, F. J. |
| Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Hewett, Sir J. P. | Raeburn, Sir William H. |
| Burn, Colonel Sir Charles Rosdew | Hiley, Sir Ernest | Raine, W. |
| Butler, H. M. (Leeds, North) | Hoare, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir S. J. G. | Rawlinson, Rt. Hon. John Fredk. Peel |
| Cadogan, Major Edward | Hogg, Rt. Hon. Sir D. (St. Marylebone) | Rawson, Lieut.-Com. A. C. |
| Cassels, J. D. | Hood, Sir Joseph | Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington) |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) | Hopkins, John W. W. | Romer, J. R. |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord H. (Ox. Univ.) | Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) | Remnant, Sir James |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord R. (Hitchin) | Houfton, John Plowright | Reynolds, W. G. W. |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) | Howard, Capt. D. (Cumberland, N.) | Rhodes, Lieut-Col. J. P. |
| Churchman, Sir Arthur | Howard-Bury, Lieut.-Col. C. K. | Richardson, Sir Alex. (Gravesend) |
| Clarry, Reginald George | Hughes, Collingwood | Richardson, Lt -Col. Sir P. (Chertsey) |
| Clayton, G. C. | Hume, G. H. | Robertson-Despencer, Major (Islgtn, W) |
| Cobb, Sir Cyril | Hurd, Percy A. | Rogerson, Capt. J. E. |
| Cohen, Major J. Brunel | Hurst, Gerald B. | Rothschild, Lionel de |
| Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips | Inskip, Sir Thomas Walker H. | Roundell, Colonel R. F. |
| Conway, Sir W. Martin | Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. | Ruggles-Brise, Major E. |
| Cope, Major William | Jenkins, W. A. (Brecon and Radnor) | Russell, William (Bolton) |
| Craig, Captain C. C. (Antrim, South) | Johnson, Sir L. (Walthamstow, E.) | Russell-Wells, Sir Sydney |
| Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) | Joynson-Hicks, Sir William | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Curzon, Captain Viscount | Kelley, Major Sir Frederick A. | Sanders, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert A. |
| Davidson, J. C. C. (Hemel Hempstead) | Kennedy, Captain M. S. Nigel | Sanderson, Sir Frank B. |
| Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. | King, Captain Henry Douglas | Simpson-Hinchliffe, W. A. |
| Davies, Alfred Thomas (Lincoln) | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Singleton, J. E. |
| Dawson, Sir Philip | Lamb, J. Q. | Skelton, A. N. |
| Dixon, C. H. (Rutland) | Lane-Fox, Lieut.-Colonel G. R. | Smith, Sir Allan M. (Croydon, South) |
| Doyle, N. Grattan | Lloyd, Cyril E. (Dudley) | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Du Pre, Colonel William Baring | Lloyd-Greame, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Spender-Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. |
| Edmondson, Major A. J. | Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) | Stanley, Lord |
| Elliot, Capt. Walter E. (Lanark) | Lorden, John William | Stewart, Gershom (Wirral) |
| Ellis, R. G. | Lumley, L. R. | Stott, Lt.-Col. W. H. |
| Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith | Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm | Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- |
| Erskine, Lord (Weston-super-Mare) | McNeill, Ronald (Kent, Canterbury) | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser |
| Erskine-Boist, Captain C. | Malone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.) | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid H. |
| Eyres-Monsell, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B. M. | Margesson, H. D. R. | Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H. |
| Falle, Major Sir Bertram Godfray | Martin, A. E. (Essex, Romford) | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) |
| Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) | Wilson, Sir C. H. (Leeds, Central) | Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L. |
| Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement | Wilson, Coal, M. J. (Richmond) | Yate, Colonel Sir Charles Edward |
| Tubbs, S. W. | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George | Yerburgh, R. D. T. |
| Watts, Dr. T. (Man., Withington) | Winterton, Earl | |
| Wells, S. R. | Wise, Frederick | TELLERS FOR THE AYES:—Captain Hacking and Major Hennessy. |
| Weston, Colonel John Wakefield | Wolmer, Viscount | |
| Wheler, Col. Granville C. H. | Wood, Rt. Hon. Edward F. L. (Ripon) | |
| White, Lt. Col. G. D. (Southport) | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. | |
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Harney, E. A. | Phillipps, Vivian |
| Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') | Harris, Percy A. | Ponsonby, Arthur |
| Ammon, Charles George | Hay, Captain J. P. (Cathcart) | Pringle, W. M. R. |
| Attlee, C. R. | Hayday, Arthur | Richards, R. |
| Barnes, A. | Hayes, John Henry (Edge Hill) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring |
| Batey, Joseph | Henderson, Sir T. (Roxburgh) | Riley, Ben |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Herriotts, J. | Roberts, C. H. (Derby) |
| Berkeley, Captain Reginald | Hill, A. | Robertson, J. (Lanark, Bothwell) |
| Bonwick, A. | Hillary, A. E. | Royce, William Stapleton |
| Bowdler, W. A. | Hinds, John | Salter, Dr. A. |
| Broad, F. A. | Hirst, G. H. | Scrymgeour, E. |
| Buckle, J. | Hodge, Rt. Hon. John | Sexton, James |
| Burnie, Major J. (Bootle) | Hodge, Lieut.-Col. J. P. (Preston) | Shinwell, Emanuel |
| Buxton, Charles (Accrington) | Hutchison, Sir R. (Kirkcaldy) | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Chapple, W. A. | Irving, Dan | Simpson, J. Hope |
| Clarke, Sir E. C. | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Smith, T. (Pontefract) |
| Clynes, Rt.-Hon. John R. | Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington) | Snell, Harry |
| Collins, Sir Godfrey (Greenock) | Jones, R. T. (Carnarvon) | Spencer, H. H. (Bradford, S.) |
| Collison, Levi | Jowett, F. W. (Bradford, East) | Strauss, Edward Anthony |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Jowitt, W. A. (The Hartlepools) | Sullivan, J. |
| Crook, C. W. (East Ham, North) | Lansbury, George | Thomas, Sir Robert John (Anglesey) |
| Darbishire, C. W. | Lawson, John James | Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West) |
| Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Leach, W. | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| Davies, J. C. (Denbigh, Denbigh) | Lees-Smith, H. B. (Keighley) | Turner, Ben |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Linfield, F. C. | Ward, Col. J. (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Duncan, C. | Lunn, William | Warne, G. H. |
| Dunnico, H. | M'Entee, V. L. | Watson, Capt. J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Ede, James Chuter | McLaren, Andrew | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Emlyn-Jones, J. E. (Dorset, N.) | MacLean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) | Wedgwood, Colonel Josiah C. |
| Entwistle, Major C. F. | March, S. | Weir, L. M. |
| Evans, Ernest (Cardigan) | Marks, Sir George Croydon | Welsh, J. C. |
| Fairbairn, R. R. | Marshall, Sir Arthur H. | White, H. G. (Birkenhead, E.) |
| Falconer, J. | Martin, F. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, E.) | Whiteley, W. |
| Foot, Isaac | Middleton, G. | Williams, David (Swansea, E.) |
| George, Major G. L. (Pembroke) | Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred Moritz | Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| Gilbert, James Daniel | Morel, E. D. | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Gosling, Harry | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) | Wilson, C. H. (Sheffield, Attercliffe) |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Muir, John W. | Wintringham, Margaret |
| Graham, W. (Edinburgh, Central) | Murray, R. (Renfrew, Western) | Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.) |
| Gray, Frank (Oxford) | Newbold, J. T. W. | Wright, W. |
| Greenall, T. | O'Grady, Captain James | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Paling, W. | |
| Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Parker, H. (Hanley) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. T. Griffiths and Mr. Morgan Jones. |
| Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) | |
| Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) | Pattinson, R. (Grantham) | |
| Hardie, George D. | Pattinson, S. (Horncastle) |
§ It being after a Quarter-past Eight of the Clock, and there being Private Business set down by direction of the Chairman of Ways and Means under Sanding Order No. 8, farther Proceeding was postponed without Question put.