§ (1) Where part of a dwelling-house to which the principal Act applies is lawfully sub-let, and the part so sub-let is also a dwelling-house to which the principal Act applies then in addition to any increases permitted by paragraphs (a) to (e) of Subsection (1) of Section two of the principal Act, an amount not exceeding ten per cent. of the net rent of the dwelling-house comprised in the sub-tenancy shall be deemed to be a permitted increase in the case of that dwelling house, and an amount equivalent to five per cent. of the net rent of the dwelling-house comprised in the sub-tenancy shall be deemed to be a permitted increase in the case of the dwelling-house comprised in the tenancy.
§ (2) The tenant who has so sub-let part of any such dwelling-house shall, on being so requested in writing by the landlord of the dwelling-house, supply him, within fourteen days thereafter, with a statement in writing of any sub-letting, giving particulars of occupancy, including the rent charged, and should he without reasonable excuse fail to do so or supply a statement which is false in any material particulars he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding two pounds.
§ Lords Amendment:
§
At end of Sub-section (1), insert
Sub-section (2) of Section three of the principal Act shall not apply as respects any increase permitted under this Subsection.
Mr. CHAMBERLAINI beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
This is one of the Amendments that were mentioned in the Debate on the Motion, "That the Lords Amendments be now considered," and I think I need only confirm what was then stated by my hon. Friend the Member for West Woolwich (Sir K. Wood), that it is not correct to say that, if this Amendment is inserted, the tenant will not have to give any notice of increase at all to his sub-tenant. He will still have to give the ordinary notice of increase, but he will not have to give a notice of increase in the very complicated and difficult form provided in the Schedule to the original Act. It hardly seems worth while to make a cumbrous addition to the Schedule in order to cover this particular case.
§ Mr. FOOTI think the right hon. Gentleman will appreciate the difficulty in which some of us are on this side of the House. These Lords Amendments were placed in our hands only this morning, and the right hon. Gentleman says, in defending this substantial alteration, as I submit it is, that some notice will still be required. I should be glad if he could refer me to anything in the principal Act that would show that some notice would still have to be given by the tenant to his sub-tenant. I have referred to Sub-section (2) of Section 3 of the principal Act, which is the Sub-section making it necessary that, upon any permitted increase being demanded, notice shall be given. I should certainly not divide against this Amendment if I could be satisfied upon one or two points. First of all. where in the principal Act is it provided that notice would have to be given of this 10 per cent. increase? Secondly, what form would that notice have to take? Could it be, for instance simply a verbal notice, or must it be a notice in writing? And, what is still more important, how soon can the tenant obtain from the sub-tenant this 10 per cent. increase? In the Sub-section of the principal Act which it is now proposed to eliminate, provision was made that four weeks' notice had to be given in the case of the ordinary increase of rent—per cent. or 25 per cent.—and one week's notice in respect of an increase of rates. That is to say, the landlord could not demand the increase immediately, but had to give four weeks' notice in the case of an increase of rent, and one week's notice in the case of an increase of rates. If that be done away with, are we now to understand that a tenant demanding an increase from his sub-tenant can get it immediately? Can he go to him on Tuesday of next week, immediately after the Act comes into operation, and say,"I am entitled to a 10 per cent. increase, and that 10 per cent. increase shall be payable immediately"?
The safeguard was contained in the Sub-section which it is now proposed to strike out, and in the other House there was practically no discussion on this proposal. The right hon. Gentleman's representative in the other House simply introduced it, and it was agreed to without any comment or discussion. I submit that 1142 it is an important Amendment, which demands some further explanation, and I shall certainly be inclined to vote against this proposal unless I can be satisfied on the three points about which I have asked, namely, what notice can now be required under the principal Act; is that notice to be verbal or in writing—if it can simply be a verbal notice, it will give rise to all sorts of difficulties; and, thirdly, seeing that this Sub-section, inserted in the principal Act for the protection of the tenant, is now to be struck out, can the increase be demanded immediately? I think the sub-tenant who is now to be called upon to pay this 10 per cent. increase is entitled, at any rate, to some breathing space, so that he may make provision for the increased payment. If the Measure goes through in such a form as to enable the tenant who is also the landlord of a sub-tenant to go to him and demand that substantial increase immediately, there will be a considerable outcry against a Measure that is giving occasion already for sufficient disturbance and unpopularity.
§ Mr. HARNEYI have been endeavouring, in my own confused way, to try and understand this matter, and perhaps the right hon. Gentleman would be good enough to follow me in my observations. The Amendment is to insert, at the end of Sub-section (1), the words
Sub-section (2) of Section three of the principal Act shall not apply as respects any increase permitted under this Sub-section.Sub-section (1) of Clause 6 of this Bill provides thatWhere part of a dwelling-house to which the principal Act applies is lawfully sub-let, and the part so sub-let is also a dwelling-house to which the principal Act applies,the tenant shall be entitled to increase the rent of the sub-tenant by 10 per cent., and the landlord shall be entitled to increase the rent of the tenant by 5 per cent. in respect of each sub-tenancy. These are new increases in rent which have to be provided for. Am I wrong in saying that the intention of this Amendment is that whatever Sub-section (2) of Section 3 of the principal Act says shall not be applicable to this new increase? I think I am right. Now, Subsection (2) of Section 3 of the principal Act, dealing with certain increases provided for in that Act, says:Notwithstanding any agreement to the contrary, where the rent of any dwelling- 1143 house to which this Act applies is increased, no such increase shall be due or recoverable until or in respect of any period prior to the expiry of four clear weeks, or, where such increase is on account of an increase in rates, one clear week, after the landlord has served upon the tenant a valid notice in writing of his intention to increase the rent, which notice shall he in the form contained in the first Schedule to this Act or in a form substantially to the same effect.I have been found to be wrong so often that I want to be quite clear as I go on. Am I right in saying that Sub-section (2) of Section 3 of the principal Act provides that the increases of rent there provided for shall not be made unless four weeks' notice be given to the tenant? And am I also right in saying that the increase of rent permitted by this Bill can be made without complying with that provision requiring notice to be given to the tenant? If that be so, is not my hon. Friend perfectly justified in saying that the effect of this Amendment is to dispense with the necessity of giving notice in the case of these new increases of 10 per cent. and 5 per cent.; and, if that be so, what is the justification for giving this privilege to the landlord in respect of these new increases of rent which was denied to the landlord in reference to the previous increases?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINI will first answer the points put to me by the hon. Member for Bodmin (Mr. Foot). He asks where in the principal Act is there anything that provides that notice must be given to the sub-tenant of the increase under this Clause? I would refer the hon. Member to Sub-section (1) of Section 3 of the principal Act, which says
Nothing in this Act shall be taken to authorise any increase in rent except in respect of a period during which but for this Act the landlord would be entitled to obtain possession.Therefore, as he would have to give to his tenant the ordinary notice to determine his tenancy before he could raise the rent, that would still apply, and that is the notice he will have to give, instead of the notice provided in Sub-section (2) of the same Section.
§ Mr. FOOTDoes the right hon. Gentleman suggest that Section 3 (1) requires the landlord to give that notice in demanding an increase of rent?
§ Mr. FOOTThen will the right hon. Gentleman kindly answer the other points that I put to him, namely, is that notice to be in writing, or may it be verbal; and can the increase be demanded forthwith, or must four weeks' notice be given, as in the case of the other permitted increases?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINAs I understand the Sub-section, what he would have to do would be to give the tenant notice to quit.
Mr. CHAMBERLAINIt can be a week's notice. The form the notice would take would be that form, and not the form specified in Sub-section (2). That, I think, answers the hon. Member's second point. His third point is whether the term would be reduced from four weeks to one week? I understand that that would be so.
§ Mr. FOOTThe notice will be reduced from four weeks to one week; and, seeing that the notice to quit may be verbal, may I ask whether this may also be verbal?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINThe effect would be that the tenant will have one week's notice. It does not matter very much what the form is, so long as he knows how much time he has got.
§ Mr. PRINGLEI do not think that this matter is sufficiently clear even now. It is very interesting that the right hon. Gentleman has based his case upon Subsection (1) of Section 3 of the principal Act. This is the Section which gave rise to the Kerr v. Bride decision. It was in connection with this Section that it became necessary to pass further legislation in this House, and an Act was passed earlier this Session which dispensed with the notice to quit both before and after the passing of that Act. Sub-section (1) of Section 3 of the principal Act, there-, fore, does not necessarily now apply. The notice given under Sub-section (2) of Section 3 was all that was required, but if this present Measure says that that Sub-section shall not apply in this case, what is the position going to be, supposing that no notice is given at all? I think the House is placing itself in a 1145 position of some difficulty. I do not see that it is necessary to go so far as to repeal the whole of Sub-section (2) of Section 3 of the principal Act. The needs of the case might have been met by saying that notice in a particular form was not necessary under Sub-section (1) of that Section, but that the minimum period of notice laid down in Sub-section (2) should apply. In view of the fact that this Sub-section (1) of Section 3 of the prin-
§ cipal Act has given rise to difficulty, and in view of what has already happened, I think some difficulty must arise out of the Amendment to which the House is now being asked to agree.
§ Question put, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 195; Noes, 130.
1147| Division No. 342.] | AYES. | [7.30 p.m. |
| Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte | Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir John | Penny, Frederick George |
| Ainsworth, Captain Charles | Goff, Sir R. Park | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings) |
| Alexander, E. E. (Leyton, East) | Gray, Harold (Cambridge) | Perkins, Colonel E. K. |
| Alexander, Col. M. (Southwark) | Greaves-Lord, Walter | Perring, William George |
| Ashley, Lt.-Col. Wilfrid W. | Greenwood, William (Stockport) | Peto, Basil E. |
| Baird, Rt. Hon. Sir John Lawrence | Guinness, Lieut.-Col. Hon. W. E. | Philipson, Mabel |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Gwynne, Rupert S. | Pielou, D. P. |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Privett, F. J. |
| Banks, Mitchell | Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Raeburn, Sir William H. |
| Barlow, Rt. Hon. Sir Montague | Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. (Liv'p'l,W.D. by) | Raine, W. |
| Barnett, Major Richard W. | Halstead, Major D. | Rawlinson, Rt. Hon. John Fredk. Peel |
| Barnston, Major Harry | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Rawson, Lieut.-Com. A. C. |
| Becker, Harry | Harrison, F. C. | Reid, Capt. A. S. C. (Warrington) |
| Berry, Sir George | Hawke, John Anthony | Reid, D. D. (County Down) |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Henn, Sir Sydney H. | Reamer, J. R. |
| Birchall, Major J. Dearman | Hennessy, Major J. R. G. | Remnant, Sir James |
| Bowyer, Capt. G. E. W. | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Reynolds, W. G. W. |
| Boyd-Carpenter, Major A | Herbert, S. (Scarborough) | Rhodes, Lieut-Col. J. P. |
| Brass, Captain W. | Hewett, Sir J. P. | Richardson, Sir Alex. (Gravesend) |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Hiley, Sir Ernest | Richardson, Lt.-Col. Sir P. (Chertsey) |
| Briggs, Harold | Hogg, Re. Hon. Sir D. (St. Marylebone) | Robertson-Despencer, Major (Islgtn, W) |
| Brittain, Sir Harry | Hood, Sir Joseph | Rogerson, Capt. J. E. |
| Brown, Brig.-Gen. Clifton (Newbury) | Hopkins, John W. W. | Rothschild, Lionel de |
| Bruford, R. | Horne, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead) | Roundell, Colonel R. F. |
| Bruton, Sir James | Houlton, John Plowright | Ruggles-Brise, Major E. |
| Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. | Howard, Capt. D. (Cumberland, N.) | Russell, William (Bolton) |
| Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Howard-Bury, Lieut.-Col. C. K. | Russell-Wells, Sir Sydney |
| Burn, Colonel Sir Charles Rosdew | Hughes, Collingwood | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Butler, H. M. (Leeds, North) | Hume, G. H. | Sanders, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert A. |
| Cadogan, Major Edward | Hurd, Percy A. | Scott, Sir Leslie (Liverp'l, Exchange) |
| Cassels, J. D. | Hurst, Gerald B. | Simpson-Hinchliffe, W. A. |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Sir Evelyn (Aston) | Instep, Sir Thomas Walker H. | Singleton, J. E. |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord H. (Ox. Univ.) | Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. | Skelton, A. N. |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord R. (Hitchin) | Jenkins, W. A. (Brecon and Radnor) | Smith, Sir Allan M. (Croydon, South) |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. N. (Ladywood) | Johnson, Sir L. (Walthamstow, E.) | Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) |
| Churchman, Sir Arthur | Joynson-Hicks, Sir William | Spender-Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. |
| Clarry, Reginald George | Kennedy, Captain M S. Nigel | Stewart, Gershom (Wirral) |
| Clayton, G. C. | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Stott, Lt.-Col. W. H. |
| Cobb, Sir Cyril | Lamb, J. Q. | Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- |
| Cohen, Major J. Brunel | Lane-Fox, Lieut.-Colonel G. R. | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser |
| Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips | Lloyd-Greame, Rt. Hon. Sir Philip | Sugden, Sir Wilfrid H. |
| Conway, Sir W. Martin | Locker-Lampoon, G. (Wood Green) | Sykes, Major-Gen. Sir Frederick H. |
| Cope, Major William | Lorden, John William | Thompson, Luke (Sunderland) |
| Craig, Captain C. C. (Antrim, South) | Lumley, L. R. | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) |
| Crook, C. W. (East Ham, North) | Macnaghten, Hon. Sir Malcolm | Tryon, Rt. Hon. George Clement |
| Crooke, J. Smedley (Deritend) | McNeill, Ronald (Kent, Canterbury) | Watson, Capt. J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Curzon, Captain Viscount | Malone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.) | Watts, Dr. T. (Man., Withington) |
| Davidson, J. C. C. (Hemel Hempstead) | Martin, A. E. (Essex, Romford) | Wells, S. R. |
| Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. | Mason, Lieut.-Col. C. K. | Weston, Colonel John Wakefield |
| Davies, Alfred Thomas (Lincoln) | Mercer, Colonel H. | White, Lt. Col. G. D. (Southport) |
| Dawson, Sir Philip | Milne, J. S. Wardlaw | Wilson, Sir C. H. (Leeds, Central) |
| Dixon, C. H. (Rutland) | Mitchell, W. F. (Saffron Walden) | Wilson, Col. M. J. (Richmond) |
| Doyle, N. Grattan | Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham) | Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel George |
| Du Pre, Colonel William Baring | Molloy, Major L. G. S. | Winterton, Earl |
| Edmondson, Major A. J. | Morris, Harold | Wise, Frederick |
| Elliot, Capt. Walter E. (Lanark) | Morrison, Hugh (Wilts, Salisbury) | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Erskine, Lord (Weston-super-Mare) | Morrison-Bell, Major Sir A.C.(Honiton) | Wood, Rt. Hon. Edward F. L. (Ripon) |
| Erskine-Bolst, Captain C. | Murchison, C. K. | Woodcock, Colonel H. C. |
| Eyres-Monsell, Com. Rt. Hon. Sir B. M. | Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley) | Whington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L. |
| Falle, Major Sir Bertram Godfray | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L., (Exeter) | Yate, Colonel Sir Charles Edward |
| Fawkes, Major F. H. | Nicholson, Brig.-Gen. J. (Westminster) | Yerburgh, R. D. T. |
| Flanagan, W. H. | O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Hugh | |
| Ford, Patrick Johnston | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William | |
| Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot | Parker, Owen (Kettering) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES:—Colonel the Rt. Hon. G. A. Gibbs and Coptain Douglas King. |
| Furness, G. J. | Pease, William Edwin | |
| Ganzoni, Sir John | Pennefather, De Fonblanque | |
| Garland, C. S. | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, W. M. (Staff., Cannock) | Harney, E. A. | Pattinson, R. (Grantham) |
| Alexander, A. V. (Sheffield, Hillsbro') | Harris, Percy A. | Pattinson, S. (Horncastle) |
| Ammon, Charles George | Hay, Captain J. P. (Cathcart) | Phillipps, Vivian |
| Attlee, C. R. | Hayday, Arthur | Ponsonby, Arthur |
| Barnes, A. | Hayes, John Henry (Edge Hill) | Pringle, W. M. R. |
| Batey, Joseph | Henderson, Sir T. (Roxburgh) | Richards, R. |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Herriotts, J. | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) |
| Berkeley, Captain Reginald | Hill, A. | Riley, Ben |
| Bonwick, A. | Hinds, John | Roberts, C. H. (Derby) |
| Bowdier, W. A. | Hirst, G. H. | Royce, William Stapleton |
| Broad, F. A. | Hodge, Rt. Hon. John | Saklatvala, S. |
| Buckle, J. | Hodge, Lieut.-Col. J. P. (Preston) | Salter, Dr. A. |
| Burnie, Major J. (Bootle) | Hutchison, Sir R. (Kirkcaldy) | Scrymgeour, E. |
| Buxton, Charles (Accrington) | Irving, Dan | Sexton, James |
| Buxton, Noel (Norfolk, North) | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Shinwell, Emanuel |
| Chapple, W. A. | Jones, R. T. (Carnarvon) | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir John |
| Clarke, Sir E. C. | Jawett, F. W. (Bradford, East) | Simpson, J. Hope |
| Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. | Jawitt, W. A. (The Hartlepools) | Smith, T. (Pontefract) |
| Collison, Levi | Lambert, Rt. Hon. George | Snell, Harry |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Lansbury, George | Spencer, H. H. (Bradford, S.) |
| Darbishire, C. W. | Lawson, John James | Strauss, Edward Anthony |
| Davies, J. C. (Denbigh, Denbigh) | Leach, W. | Sturrock, J. Long |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Lees-Smith, H. B. (Keighley) | Sullivan, J. |
| Duncan, C. | Linfield, F. C. | Thomas, Sir Robert John (Anglesey) |
| Dunnico, H. | Lunn, William | Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West) |
| Ede, James Chuter | Lyle-Samuel, Alexander | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| Emlyn-Jones, J. E. (Dorset, N.) | MacDonald, J. R. (Aberavon) | Turner, Ben |
| Entwistle, Major C. F. | M'Entee, V. L. | Warne, G. H. |
| Evans, Ernest (Cardigan) | McLaren, Andrew | Watts-Morgan, Lt.-Col. D. (Rhondda) |
| Fairbairn, R. R. | Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) | Wedgwood, Colonel Josiah C. |
| Falconer, J. | March, S. | White, H. G. (Birkenhead, E.) |
| Foot, Isaac | Marks, Sir George Croydon | Whiteley, W. |
| George, Major G. L. (Pembroke) | Marshall, Sir Arthur H. | Williams, David (Swansea, E.) |
| Gilbert, James Daniel | Martin, F. (Aberd'n & Kinc'dine, E.) | Williams, Dr. J. H. (Llanelly) |
| Gosling, Harry | Middleton, G. | Williams, T. (York, Don Valley) |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred Moritz | Wintringham, Margaret |
| Graham, W. (Edinburgh, Central) | Morel, E. D. | Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.) |
| Gray, Frank (Oxford) | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) | Wright, W. |
| Greenall, T. | Mosley, Oswald | Young, Rt. Hon. E. H. (Norwich) |
| Greenwood, A. (Nelson and Colne) | Muir, John W. | Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton) |
| Grenfell, D. R. (Glamorgan) | Murray, R. (Renfrew, Western) | |
| Guest, Hon. C. H. (Bristol, N.) | O'Grady, Captain James | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. T. Griffiths and Mr. Morgan Jones. |
| Hall, G. H. (Merthyr Tydvil) | Paling, W. | |
| Hamilton, Sir R. (Orkney & Shetland) | Parker, H. (Hanley) | |
| Hardie, George D. | Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) |
Question, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment," put, and agreed to.
§ Lords Amendment:
§ In Sub-section (2) leave out the words "The tenant who has so sub-let," and insert "Where."
Mr. CHAMBERLAINI beg to move. "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
This Amendment must be taken with the three following Amendments, which are consequential upon it, and the purpose of it is this. As drafted, the Bill applies only in the case of a tenant who has himself sub-let some of his rooms. It is quite possibly, in a case where a tenant has succeeded another tenant, the other tenant who sub-let the rooms. In that case the Bill as drafted would not apply to him and the object of the Amendment is to make it apply.
Captain BENNThis is another Amendment in the landlord's interest. A number of Amendments have been in the landlord's interest, and I simply make 1148 this observation. This is an Amendment which will extend the power of imposing the increase of 10 per cent.
§ Lords Amendments:
§ In Sub-section (2): After the word "dwelling-house" ["any such dwelling-house"] insert "is so sublet the tenant."
§ Leave out the words "of the dwelling-house."
§ Leave out the word "he" ["and should he without"] and insert "the tenant."
§ Agreed to.
§ Lords Amendment:
§ After Clause 6 insert