§ Sir DONALD MACLEANI wish to ask the Leader of the House a couple of questions relating to business. I wish to ask first in regard to to-morrow, and then in regard to the business to be taken on the Order Paper of to-day. May I ask whether the House is to have the advantage of the Debate to-morrow being opened by the Prime Minister?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINYes, Sir; I had proposed to make a statement on this subject before I received notice from the right hon. Gentleman opposite, and before I read the letter addressed to me by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Platting (Mr. Clynes) in the morning 1223 papers. I had an opportunity of reporting to the Prime Minister yesterday afternoon the strong desire of the House that he should himself open to-morrow's Debate by a general statement on the course of events at the Genoa Conference, and on the results achieved by it. On being made aware of the strength of that feeling, as expressed in all quarters of the House, and especially by those who had throughout given to him their warm support, the Prime Minister authorised me to say that he would most certainly defer to the wishes of the House. The Prime Minister will accordingly open the Debate to-morrow, but reluctant as he would be to trouble the House with two speeches on one day, he counts upon the House to allow him a reply, should the course of the Debate or the criticism directed against him render, in his opinion, a second speech necessary.
§ Sir D. MACLEANWith regard to the Motion standing in the name of the Leader of the House for the suspension of the Eleven o'Clock Rule, may I ask what Orders the right hon. Gentleman proposes to ask the House to take, and will he take note with regard to No. 6 (Harbours, Docks and Piers Temporary Increase of Charges) Bill that there will be very considerable opposition on this side of the House to that Order being taken at a late hour?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINI will defer to the opinion expressed by the right hon. Gentleman, and I will not attempt to take Order No. 6 after 11 o'clock. With that exception, I propose to take the first 11 Orders on the Paper.
§ Mr. S. WALSHI would like to say that we had no intention to be discourteous by the insertion of the letter which appeared in the public Press this morning. A similar communication was sent from the Labour party's room to the right hon. Gentleman in the name of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Platting yesterday evening.
Mr. CHAMBERLAINYes, it was posted at seven o'clock yesterday evening, when both of us appear to have been in the House, and I was here until the rising of the House. The letter only reached me this morning after I had read it in the Press. I at once accept the statement of the hon. Gentleman, and I knew that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for 1224 Platting had no intention of being discourteous.
§ Mr. HOGGEMay I ask why the Leader of the House, on two separate occasions, gave the House the impression that the Prime Minister in the first case would exhaust his right, and to-day he says that he can only speak if the House allows him? Does not the Leader of the House know that, in Committee of Supply, the Prime Minister can, with file Chairman's permission, speak as often as he likes?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINI do not know that the House is very much interested in debating this point, but I originally contemplated that Members of the Opposition desired to put down a Motion in regard to Genoa, and when I spoke of the Prime Minister exhausting his right to reply the other day, that was one of those lapses of memory that occasionally occur to hard-worked men. I was referring to my original idea that the Debate would be upon a Motion and not upon a Supply Vote. As regards my statement to-day, the hon. Member apparently fails to appreciate the Prime Minister's mind. The Prime Minister feels that to open a single day's Debate with a speech perhaps of an hour's duration, and then in the course of the same Debate to make another speech occupying an hour, is imposing a large draught upon the time of the House. The Prime Minister is well aware that he has, like all of us, the right to speak as often as he is fortunate enough to catch Mr. Speaker's eye, or the Chairman's eye in Committee, but it was a feeling of deference to the House, and a desire not to impose unduly on the House, that caused him to ask me to explain that he would ask the indulgence of the House if he had to make an unusually long draught on the time of the House tomorrow in the course of the Debate.
§ Captain WEDGWOOD BENNI wish to draw attention to the Motion standing in the name of the Leader of the House, which says,
That the Proceedings on Government Business be exempted at this day's Sitting from the provisions of the Standing Order.The Standing Order referred to says that such a Motion may be made and passed for the exemption of any "specified business." I submit that to put in the words "Government Business" is not a compliance with the terms of the 1225 Standing Order, which says "specified business." In support of that I will point out that if we read it literally it would suspend the Eleven o'Clock Rule for 18 Orders. We have been told that only six are to be taken to-day. [HON. MEMBERS: "NO, 11."] I understand that 10 are to be taken, and I submit that to put down the Motion in such general terms as "Government Business," when the Standing Order says "specified business," renders that Motion open to debate and is not in compliance with Standing Order No. 1.
§ Mr. SPEAKERIf the hon. and gallant Member will look up the records, he will see that this Motion is quite in common form. I have a recollection of his making the same point with my predecessor.
§ Captain BENNNo.
§ Mr. SPEAKERAt any rate, it has been raised, and a ruling has been given more than once that this form of Motion complies with the Standing Order.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYIn view of the fact that the Prime Minister, as we hope, will speak twice to-morrow, and if it be obvious that there are many Members who wish to take part in the Debate, will the Government consider the desirability of giving a second day for it, especially as we have had no statement from the Prime Minister for more than two months?
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYThe Government, I believe, attach some importance to the Conference at Genoa, and is it not worth while giving a second day for the purpose, if it is found to be in the interest of the House and of the country?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINIf time were unlimited, it might be worth while, but time is not unlimited and, as the hon. and gallant Member must realise, Friday is not at my disposition.
§ Sir D. MACLEANThere is one point about the Debate which I should like to urge. I presume the Government will not endeavour to take the Foreign Office Vote to-morrow, as we naturally wish it to be put down again before Supply be closed.
Mr. CHAMBERLAINYes, I think it would be convenient to leave the Foreign Office Vote open, but I will put in a plea at this stage that if the Foreign Office Vote is closured when Supply days are ended, the right hon. Gentleman will not bring it up under the title of undiscussed Votes.
§ Mr. T. P. O'CONNORThere are many other questions of foreign policy which many Members of the House wish to discuss and which are entirely unconnected with the Genoa Conference. Cannot the right hon. Gentleman see that the Foreign Office Vote is put down for another day, I do not mean necessarily immediately, in order that we may have an opportunity of discussing these other questions among which I have, of course, in my mind the policy of the Government in regard to the Near East, and especially in the light of the awful revelations of new Turkish butcheries?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINI should not have any objection to putting down the Foreign Office Vote for every allotted clay if it be the wish of the House, but the hon. Member knows how Votes are fixed for discussion.
§ Colonel GRETTONAre we to understand that to-morrow will not be an allotted day? It is obviously an occasion chosen for a very special subject for the convenience of the Government, and should not, therefore, in the ordinary course, be an Allotted day.
Mr. CHAMBERLAINThe Debate is fixed not for the convenience of the Government, but at the special desire of the House. Of course, it will be an allotted day. Allotted days are for that purpose. My hon. Friend seems to share the fallacy which is growing in this House that if there is a real desire to discuss anything, it is an unsuitable subject for an allotted clay.
§ Colonel GRETTONObviously tomorrow there will not be by any means a financial discussion for the purposes of the Estimate, and therefore it is not an occasion, as I contended, which can properly be treated as an allotted day. Will the right hon. Gentleman consider that point?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINNo, Sir. My hon. and gallant Friend has been a Member of this House for a very long time, and 1227 he knows it is the pleasure of the House habitually to discuss grievances on Supply and not finance. If every time a grievance is discussed the day is not to be counted an allotted day, the rule as to Supply will be reduced to a perfect farce.
§ Colonel GRETTONAre we to understand then that the Genoa Conference is a grievance
§
Motion made, and Question put,
That the Proceedings on Government Business be exempted at this day's Sitting from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)."—[Mr. Chamberlain.]
§ The House divided: Ayes, 263; Noes, 77.
1229| Division No. 122.] | AYES. | [4.43 p m. |
| Adair, Rear-Admiral Thomas B. S. | Du Pre, Colonel William Baring | King, Captain Henry Douglas |
| Adkins, Sir William Ryland Dent | Edge, Captain Sir William | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement |
| Amery, Leopold C. M. S. | Edwards, Major J. (Aberavon) | Lambert, Rt. Hon. George |
| Armstrong, Henry Bruce | Edwards, Hugh (Glam., Neath) | Larmor, Sir Joseph |
| Bagley, Captain E. Ashton | Elliot, Capt. Walter E. (Lanark) | Lewis, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Univ., Wales) |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Elveden, Viscount | Lewis, T. A. (Glam., Pontypridd) |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Erskine, James Malcolm Monteith | Lindsay, William Arthur |
| Banner, Sir John S. Harmood- | Evans, Ernest | Lister, Sir R. Ashton |
| Barlow, Sir Montague | Eyres-Monsell, Com. Bolton M. | Lloyd, George Butler |
| Barnett, Major Richard W. | Falle, Major Sir Bertram Godfray | Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) |
| Barnston, Major Harry | Fell. Sir Arthur | Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (H'tingd'n) |
| Barrand, A. R. | Fisher, Rt. Hon. Herbert A. L. | Lorden, John William |
| Barrie, Sir Charles Coupar (Banff) | FitzRoy, Captain Hon. Edward A. | Lort-Williams, J. |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Flannery, Sir James Fortescue | Loseby, Captain C. E. |
| Bell, Lieut.-Col. W. C. H. (Devizes) | Forestier-Walker, L. | Lowther, Major C. (Cumberland, N.> |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. | Forrest, Walter | Lowther, Maj.-Gen. Sir C. (Penrith) |
| Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) | Fraser, Major Sir Keith | Loyd, Arthur Thomas (Abingdon) |
| Bennett, Sir Thomas Jewell | Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. | Macdonald, Rt. Hon. John Murray |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry Cavendish- | Ganzoni, Sir John | Mackinder, Sir H. J. (Camlachie) |
| Bethell, Sir John Henry | Gardner, Ernest | M'Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W. |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Gee, Captain Robert | McMicking, Major Gilbert |
| Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton, W.) | Gibbs, Colonel George Abraham | Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J. |
| Bird. Sir William B. M. (Chichester) | Gilbert, James Daniel | Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. |
| Blades, Sir George Rowland | Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel Sir John | Mailalieu, Frederick William |
| Boscawen, Rt. Hon. Sir A. Griffith- | Glyn, Major Ralph | Malone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.) |
| Bowyer, Captain G. W. E. | Got!, Sir R. Park | Manville, Edward |
| Boyd-Carpenter, Major A. | Goulding, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward A. | Marriott, John Arthur Ransome |
| Brassev, H. L. C. | Grant, James Augustus | Mason, Robert |
| Breese, Major Charles E. | Gray, Major Ernest (Accrington) | Matthews, David |
| Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive | Green, Joseph F. (Leicester, W.) | Mitchell, Sir William Lane |
| Briggs, Harold | Greene, Lt.-Col. Sir W. (Hack'y, N.) | Molson, Major John Elsdale |
| Broad, Thomas Tucker | Greenwood, William (Stockport) | Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred Moritz |
| Brown, Major D. C. | Greig, Colonel Sir James William | Montagu, Rt. Hon. E. S. |
| Bruton, Sir James | Gritten, W. G. Howard | Moreing, Captain Algernon H. |
| Buchanan, Lieut-Colonel A. L. H. | Guinness, Lieut.-Col. Hon. W. E. | Morrison, Hugh |
| Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Mount, Sir William Arthur |
| Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Hailwood, Augustine | Munro, Rt. Hon. Robert |
| Burdon, Colonel Rowland | Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. (Liv'p'l.W.D'by) | Murray, C. D. (Edinburgh) |
| Burn, Col. C. R. (Devon, Torquay) | Hamilton, Major C. G. C. | Nail, Major Joseph |
| Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R. | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Neal, Arthur |
| Carter, R. A. D. (Man., Withington) | Harmsworth, C. B. (Bedford, Luton) | Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Flnchiey) |
| Casey, T. W. | Harris, Sir Henry Percy | Newman. Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Henderson, Lt.-Col. V. L. (Tradeston) | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Evelyn (Birm., Aston) | Herbert, Col. Hon. A. (Yeovil) | Nicholson, Reginald (Doncaster) |
| Chadwick, Sir Robert Burton | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Norton-Griffiths, Lieut.-Col. Sir John |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A.(Birm.,W.) | Hilder Lieut.-Colonel Frank | Oman, Sir Charles William C. |
| Chamberlain, N. (Birm Ladywood) | Hills, Major John Waller | Pain, Brig.-Gen. Sir W. Hacket |
| Cheyne, Sir William Watson | Hinds, John | Palmer, Brigadier-General G L. |
| Child, Brigadier-General Sir Hill | Hoare. Lieut-Colonel Sir S. J. G. | Parker, James |
| Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. Spender | Holbrook. Sir Arthur Richard | Pearce, Sir William |
| Clough, Sir Robert | Hood, Sir Joseph | Pease, Rt. Hon Herbert Pike |
| Cobb, Sir Cyril | Hope,Sir H. (Stirling & CI'ckm'nn'n,W.) | Peel, Col. Hon. S. (Uxbridge, Mddx.) |
| Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips | Hope, J. D. (Berwick & Haddington) | Percy, Charles (Tynemouth) |
| Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale | Hopkins, John W. W. | Percy, Lord Eustace (Hastings; |
| Conway, Sir W. Martin | Howard, Major S. G. | Perkins, Walter Frank |
| Coote, Colin Reith (Isle of Ely) | Hume-Williams, Sir W. Ellis | Philipps, Gen. Sir I. (Southampton, |
| Cope, Major William | Hunter. General Sir A. (Lancaster) | Philipps Sir Owen C. (Chester, City) |
| Courthope, Lieut.-Col. George L. | Hurd, Percy A. | Pickering, Colonel Emil W. |
| Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) | Inskip, Thomas Walker H. | Pilditch, Sir Philip |
| Craik, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | James, Lieut-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert | Pinkham, Lieut.-Colonel Charles |
| Curzon, Captain Viscount | Jodrell, Neville Paul | Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton |
| Davies, Alfred Thomas (Lincoln) | Johnstone, Joseph | Pratt, John William |
| Davies, Thomas (Cirencester) | Jones, J. T. (Carmarthen, Lianelly) | Preston, Sir W. R. |
| Davies, Sir William H. (Bristol, S.) | Joynson-Hicks, Sir William | Raeburn, Sir William H. |
| Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) | Keilaway, Rt. Hon. Fredk. George | Rees, Capt. J. Tudor- (Barnstaple) |
| Doyle, N. Grattan | Kidd, James | Remer, J. R. |
| Remnant, Sir James | Stewart, Gershom | Wheler, Col. Granville C. H. |
| Renwick, Sir George | Sturrock, J. Leng | White, Col. G- D. (Southport) |
| Richardson, Sir Alex. (Gravesend) | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser | Williams, C. (Tavistock) |
| Richardson, Lt.-Col. Sir P. (Chertsey) | Sugden, W. H. | Willoughby, Lieut.-Col. Hon. Claud |
| Roberts, Rt. Hon. G. H. (Norwich) | Sutherland, Sir William | Wills, Lt.-Col. Sir Gilbert Alan H. |
| Roberts, Sir S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) | Sykes, Colonel Sir A. J. (Knutsford) | Wilson, Field-Marshal Sir Henry |
| Robinson, S. (Brecon and Radnor) | Sykes, Sir Charles (Huddersfield) | Windsor, Viscount |
| Robinson, Sir T. (Lanes, Stretford) | Taylor, J. | WInterton, Earl |
| Rodger, A. K. | Terrell, George (Wilts, Chippenham) | Wise, Frederick |
| Roundell, Colonel R. F. | Thomson, Sir W. Mitchell- (Maryhlil) | Wood, Hon. Edward F. L. (Ripon) |
| Rutherford, Colonel Sir J. (Darwen) | Thorpe, Captain John Henry | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert Arthur | Tickler, Thomas George | Wood, Sir J. (Stalybridge & Hyde) |
| Scott, A, M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton) | Townley, Maximilian G. | Wood, Major Sir S. Hill-(High Peak) |
| Scott, Sir Leslie (Liverp'l, Exchange) | Townshend, Sir Charles Vere Ferrers | Yate, Colonel Sir Charles Edward |
| Shaw, Hon. Alex. (Kilmarnock) | Tryon, Major George Clement | Yeo, Sir Alfred William |
| Shaw, William T. (Forfar) | Waddington, R. | Young, E. H. (Norwich) |
| Shortt, Rt. Hon. E. (N'castle-on-T.) | Wallace, J. | Young, Sir Frederick W. (Swindon) |
| Smith, Sir Malcolm (Orkney) | Walton, J. (York, W. R., Don Valley) | Young, W. (Perth & Kinross, Perth) |
| Sprot, Colonel Sir Alexander | Ward, Col. J. (Stoke-upon-Trent) | Younger, Sir George |
| Stanley, Major Hon. G. (Preston) | Ward, William Dudley (Southampton) | |
| Stanton, Charles Butt | Waring, Major Walter | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Steel, Major S. Strang | Warren, Sir Alfred H. | Colonel Leslie Wilson and Mr. |
| Stephenson, Lieut.-Colonel H. K. | Watson, Captain John Bertrand | McCurdy. |
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. William | Hartshorn, Vernon | Rattan, Peter Wilson |
| Banton, George | Hayday, Arthur | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) | Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Widnes) | Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Sprino) |
| Barnes, Major H. (Newcastle, E.) | Hirst, G. H. | Roberts, Frederick O. (W. Bromwich) |
| Barton, Sir William (Oldham) | Hodge, Rt. Hon. John | Robertson, John |
| Bell, James (Lancaster, Ormskirk) | Hogge, James Myles | Sexton, James |
| Benn, Captain Wedgwood (Leith) | Holmes, J. Stanley | Shaw, Thomas (Preston) |
| Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. | Irving, Dan | Spoor, B. G. |
| Cairns, John | John, William (Rhondda, West) | Sutton, John Edward |
| Cecil, Rt. Hon. Lord R. (Hitchin) | Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) | Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby) |
| Davies, A. (Lancaster, Clitheroe) | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Thomas, Brig.-Gen. Sir O. (Anglesey) |
| Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Kelley, Major Fred (Rotherham) | Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West) |
| Davies, Rhys John (Westhoughton) | Kennedy, Thomas | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) |
| Davison, J. E. (Smethwick) | Kenworthy, Lieut.-Commander J. M. | Walsh, Stephen (Lancaster, Ince) |
| Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Kenyon, Barnet | Waterson, A. E. |
| Edwards, G. (Norfolk, South) | Kiley, James Daniel | Watts-Morgan, Lieut.-Col. D. |
| Kinney, Samuel | Lawson, John James | Wedgwood, Colonel Josiah C. |
| Galbraith, Samuel | Lunn, William | White, Charles F. (Derby, Western) |
| Gillis, William | Maclean, Rt. Hon. Sir D. (Midlothian) | Wignall, James |
| Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Malone, C. L. (Leyton, E.) | Williams, Co). P. (Middlesbrough, E.) |
| Graham, R. (Nelson and Colne) | Mills, John Edmund | Wilson, James (Dudley) |
| Graham, W. (Edinburgh, Central) | Murray, Hon. A. C. (Aberdeen) | Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Stourbrdge) |
| Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pintypool) | Murray, Dr. D. (Inverness & Ross) | Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.) |
| Grundy, T. W. | Myers, Thomas | |
| Guest, J. (York, W.R., Hemsworth). | Naylor, Thomas Ellis | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Hall, F. {York, W. R., Normanton) | O'Connor, Thomas P. | Mr. Cape and Mr. Foot. |
| Halls, Walter | Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) |
Bill read a Second time, and committed to a Standing Committee.