Mr. MACOUISTENI beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the Shop Acts.This Bill is for the purpose of adding to the number of small shopkeepers. When the restriction of hours was introduced for shops, it was a very proper restriction, because, in the case of those who employed others, it was necessary to be careful that they did not sweat and exploit them. There was always a tendency to prolong the hours, in the hope that, the longer it was kept open, the 2015 more customers would come into the shop. Standing behind a shop counter is not hard work like working in a mine or making a highway, but it is exhausting if it is not your own shop. If it is your own shop, it is more or less a continuous holiday, because every customer is looked upon as a fresh fish which you may put into your basket; and if the shopkeeper has had a busy day, and retires to his couch late at night, having sold a great quantity of goods and served many customers, he sleeps the sleep of the just and of the man who has done good business.It is a totally different thing, however, in the case of the shop assistant. He does not care to be kept busy from morning till night, because, after all, his bare earnings are all that he gets. As is said in the old Book, of which some Members of this House may have a copy, it is the hireling who "earnestly desireth the shadow." That was never said of the man who is working on his own account. When the Shop Hours Act was brought in, it was mistakenly applied to the small shopkeeper working behind his own counter, which is as reasonable, as to apply such regulations to the smallholder, the jobbing plumber, the jobbing shoemaker, or any of those small tradesmen who work on their own account. This Bill proposes to restrict the hours, in all shops where paid assistants are employed, to the hours between nine in the morning and five in the afternoon, so that no man may be allowed to exploit another man's labour for more than eight hours a day. Eight hours a day, after all, is long enough to work for another man, but it is a very short period for which to work on your own account. Then you want to work as long as you possibly can, because, in the hours when you work, you are gaining money for yourself.
It is only fair to give the small man these opportunities, because, owing to the construction of our limited liability laws, which are necessary in order that large enterprises may be engaged in, the chance is given to one man to amass large quantities of capital under his own control, and so exploit not only labour, but capital as well. Therefore it is right that you should give to the small individual, the man who wants to get a start in life for himself, the opportunity to 2016 have greater freedom in fixing his own working hours. No man can overwork himself by compulsion; he does it in his own interest. At present no opportunity is given to the ordinary wage-earner to improve his circumstances. I would like to see such an opportunity given, for instance, to the railwayman who starts work at six in the morning and finishes at two in the afternoon, and does not know what to do with himself for the rest of the day. He is supposed to improve his mind, but he would be very much better occupied in improving his circumstances. Why should not such a man be given the chance, say from six till eight or ten, or even 12 o'clock, of opening a little shop? He may have an industrious and capable wife or daughter who would assist him, and so he might redeem himself from the condition which my hon. Friends on the Labour Benches persist in calling that of a mere wage slave. It would give him the appropriate handicap against the vast stores and multiple shops.
4.0 P.M.
I do not see why all the dice should be loaded in favour of gigantic businesses like Selfridge's, Harrod's, and others. I would far rather see tens of thousands of small shopkeepers working behind their own counters. I wish to see as many men on their own account in this country as possible, and as few masters as possible, because thereby you get greater liberty, greater contentment and more zeal. If I am employing a tradesman, I always employ a man working on his own account; I never go and look for a man who has a lot of men working under him. I have heard painters, when speaking of their master, for whom they had no love, say to one another, "How many pieces—or whatever it is—shall we give him?" And one of them would say, "Oh, six is enough for him," and so they took it easily. But if you are employing a painter, or a paperhanger, or whatever he may be, who is working on his own account, and you tell him the thing is wanted in a hurry, and make a contract with him, he will come early in the morning and will work as long as there is daylight in order to get the job done expeditiously, and done, moreover, with the loving care with which a man does his work when doing his own job and working on his own account. Therefore, for the purpose of promoting the chances of the shop 2017 assistant and of giving him the opportunity, when he has done his eight hours for his employer, of doing something for himself, something better than going to the picture-house or the public-house, or even to lectures, I have inserted a Clause as follows:
(1) Every shop in which one or more shop assistants in receipt of wages ore employed shall be closed for the serving of customers between the hours of five in the afternoon and nine in the morning; and no assistant in receipt of wages shall be employed in or about the business of the shop between those hours.(2) Nothing in a closing Order or in any enactment relating to the closing of shops shall apply to any shop in which paid shop assistants are not employed.That Clause gives absolute freedom to the man who is working as an individual. It will give thousands of wage earners an opportunity of becoming independent, men, and it is a proper handicap to put upon the aggregations of capital which are built up under our limited liability laws. Every man who has a desire to see the improvement of the working classes should support this Bill. I have been widely attacked and circularised because I brought in another Bill to enable tobacco to be sold and bought up till half-past nine at night. There is nothing more calculated to promote homicidal tendencies than that a man should find himself unable to get tobacco after eight o'clock at night, but, if hon. Members will accept this Bill in lieu of the other, it will give an enormous amount of freedom to individual shopkeepers and convenience to the public. An eight-hours day is perhaps long enough for shop assistants, but it is not long enough for shops to remain open for the convenience of the public. In many towns, if you arrive by train at six o'clock you cannot buy an article of any description. These little shops in many country towns and villages, which are merely exchanges of news, one person reading the "Daily Mail" and another the "Daily Express," are all shut up at these abnormal city hours which are only suitable for big warehouses. There is no greater injustice than applying equal laws to unequal matters and trying to make equal that which is unequal. The whole of our shop legislation deals with two totally different circumstances. This Bill gives freedom and liberty to a man to work as he chooses for himself, as we all do in other pro- 2018 fessions as long as we like without interference from anybody. Unfortunately, under regulations which have been made, the working man is completely deprived of all his freedom. He cannot, whether he wants to work or not, put in more than a certain number of hours. I wish to give the shop assistant all the leisure possible. I believe that he works quite long enough, but I also believe in giving an opportunity to the small man, the small shopkeeper, to develop himself to the full. There may be only himself and an energetic spouse or daughter whom he prefers to keep at home in his shop, and there can be no exploitation. The Bill will give to many a man who has never had a chance the opportunity to raise himself into more comfortable and affluent circumstances. For these reasons, I beg to ask leave to bring in the Bill.
§ Mr. RHYS DAVIESWe have listened for the second time this week to a Measure dealing with hours in shops. I am glad that the hon. Member who has moved this Bill has not been very serious about it. He has made out what appears to be a very plausible case, but I want to point out where his case fails. I can imagine in his constituency a man opening a shop and employing no assistants, competing with a relative who has a shop next door and employs one or two assistants. That person would be able to keep his shop open late at night, whereas his relative, because he employs two or three assistants, would not be able to do so. That would be an intolerable position, and I feel sure that the House will reject this Measure. The hon. Member assumes that this proposal would make it easier for the small man to enter into business. Let me remind him that the number of small business men in this country has gradually diminished in the last quarter of a century. It does not matter in the least what Measure this House may pass, the number of small businesses will continue to decrease. The tendency of the time is in favour of large business concerns by way of co-operative societies and joint stock companies. I would ask the House to give attention to that point. There are employed in and about shops approximately one million young people. Probably three-quarters of that number are young women and young girls, and any Measure passed by this House in the way indicated by the hon. Gentleman will create a tendency to 2019 sweat these young people more than in the past. [HON. MEMBERS: "Why?"] This House has given permission to establish trade boards to regulate wages in the distributive trades, merely on account of the fact that thousands of young people were absolutely sweated in the shops of
§ this country. I feel sure that the good sense of this House will not permit this Measure to pass.
§ Question put, "That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the Shop Acts."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 128; Noes, 114.
2021| Division No. 98.] | AYES. | [4.8 p.m. |
| Adair, Rear-Admiral Thomas B. S. | Ganzoni, sir John | Newton, Sir D. G. C. (Cambridge) |
| Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte | Gardiner, James | Nicholson, Brig.-Gen. J. (Westminster) |
| Armstrong, Henry Bruce | Gardner, Ernest | O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Hugh |
| Ashley, Colonel Wilfrid W. | Gibbs, Colonel George Abraham | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William |
| Atkey, A. R. | Goff, Sir R. Park | Pain, Brig.-Gen. Sir W. Hacket |
| Baird, Sir John Lawrence | Grant, James Augustus | Palmer, Brigadier-General G. L. |
| Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley | Greig, Colonel Sir James William | Pearce, Sir William |
| Balfour, George (Hampstead) | Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. Frederick E. | Raeburn, Sir William H. |
| Banner, Sir John S. Harmood- | Guinness, Lieut.-Col. Hon. W. E. | Randles, Sir John Scurrah |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Hacking, Captain Douglas H. | Raw, Lieutenant-Colonel Dr. N. |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hallwood, Augustine | Rees, Capt. J. Tudor- (Barnstaple) |
| Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. | Halt, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) | Reid, D. D. |
| Benn, Capt. Sir I. H., Bart. (Gr'nw'h) | Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. (Liv'p'l, W.D'by) | Richardson, Lt.-Col. Sir P. (Chertsey) |
| Bennett, Sir Thomas Jewell | Hambro, Angus Valdemar | Rodger, A. K. |
| Betterton, Henry B. | Hancock, John George | Roundell, Colonel R. F. |
| Birchall, J. Dearman | Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry | Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) |
| Bird, Sir R. B. (Wolverhampton. W.) | Hennessy, Major J. R. G. | Samuel, Rt. Hon, Sir H. (Norwood) |
| Bird, Sir William B. M. (Chichester) | Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) | Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert Arthur |
| Blair, Sir Reginald | Hogge, James Myles | Sharman-Crawford, Robert G. |
| Blake, Sir Francis Douglas | Hope, Sir H.(Stirling & Cl'ckm'nn, W.) | Smith, Sir Malcolm (Orkney) |
| Boscawen, Rt. Hon. Sir A. Griffith- | Hope, Lt.-Col. Sir J. A. (Midlothian) | Smithers, Sir Alfred W. |
| Bowles, Colonel H. F. | Hopkins, John W. W. | Sprot, Colonel Sir Alexander |
| Bowyer, Captain G. W. E. | Horne, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead) | Stewart, Gershom |
| Buchanan, Lieut.-Colonel A. L. H. | Hotchkin, Captain Stafford Vere | Sueter, Rear-Admiral Murray Fraser |
| Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James | Houston, Sir Robert Patterson | Sugden, W. H. |
| Burn, Col. C. R. (Devon, Torquay) | Hunter, General Sir A. (Lancaster) | Surtees, Brigadier-General H. C. |
| Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R. | Hurd, Percy A. | Sykes, Sir Charles (Huddersfield) |
| Carter, R. A. D. (Man., Withington) | Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. | Tickler, Thomas George |
| Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. Spender | James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert | Townley, Maximillan G. |
| Clough, Sir Robert | Jodrell, Neville Paul | Townshend, Sir Charles Vere Ferrers |
| Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips | Lambert, Rt. Hon. George | Turton, Edmund Russborough |
| Conway, Sir W. Martin | Larmor, Sir Joseph | Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull) |
| Coote, Colin Reith (Isle of Ely) | Law, Alfred J. (Rochdale) | White, Charles F. (Derby, Western) |
| Cope, Major William | Lindsay, William Arthur | Wilson, Capt. A. S. (Holderness) |
| Cralk, Rt. Hon. sir Henry | Lister, Sir R. Ashton | Wilson, Colonel Leslie O. (Reading) |
| Dawson, Sir Philip | Lloyd, George Butler | Windsor, Viscount |
| Du Pre, Colonel William Baring | Lowther, Maj.-Gen. Sir C. (Penrith) | Wise, Frederick |
| Ednam, Viscount | Lyle, C. E. Leonard | Wolmer, Viscount |
| Eyres-Monsell, Com. Bolton M. | M' Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W. | Yate, Colonel Sir Charles Edward |
| Falle, Major Sir Bertram Godfray | McMicking, Major Gilbert | Young, W. (Perth & Kinross, Perth) |
| Foreman, Sir Henry | Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. | |
| Forestier-Walker, L. | Manville, Edward | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Fraser, Major Sir Keith | Neal, Arthur | Mr. Macquisten and Mr. Bigland. |
| Frece, Sir Walter de | Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Adamson, Rt. Hon. William | Finney, Samuel | Jephcott, A. R. |
| Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. Christopher | Foot, Isaac | John, William (Rhondda, West) |
| Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) | Forrest, Walter | Johnstone, Joseph |
| Barrand, A. R. | Galbraith, Samuel | Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) |
| Barton, Sir William (Oldham) | Gange, E. Stanley | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) |
| Bell, James (Lancaster, Ormskirk) | Gillis, William | Kennedy, Thomas |
| Bethell, Sir John Henry | Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) | Kenyon, Barnet |
| Broad, Thomas Tucker | Graham, R. (Nelson and Colne) | Lewis, T. A. (Glam., Pontypridd) |
| Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) | Graham, W. (Edinburgh, Central) | Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (H'tingd'n) |
| Cairns, John | Greene, Lt.-Col. Sir W. (Hack'y, N.) | Lunn, William |
| Cape, Thomas | Grundy, T. W. | Macdonald, Rt. Hon. John Murray |
| Carter, W. (Nottingham, Mansfield) | Guest, J. (York, W.R., Hemsworth) | Mackinder, Sir H. J. (Camlachie) |
| Casey, T. W. | Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) | McNeill, Ronald (Kent, Canterbury) |
| Clynes, Rt. Hon. John R. | Hallas, Eldred | Malone, C. L. (Leyton, E.) |
| Coekerill, Brigadier-General G. K. | Halls, Walter | Malone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.) |
| Davies, A. (Lancaster, Clitheroe) | Hartshorn, Vernon | Marks, Sir George Croydon |
| Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) | Hayward, Evan | Matthews, David |
| Davison, J. E. (Smethwick) | Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Widnes) | Middlebrook, Sir William |
| Devlin, Joseph | Hills, Major John Waller | Mills, John Edmund |
| Doyle, N. Grattan | Hinds, John | Morrison, Hugh |
| Edge, Captain Sir William | Hirst, G. H. | Murray, Dr. D. (Inverness & Rest) |
| Edwards, C. (Monmouth, Bedwellty) | Hodge, Rt. Hon. John | Murray, John (Leeds, West) |
| Edwards, Major J. (Aberavon) | Holmes, J. Stanley | Myers, Thomas |
| Edwards, Hugh (Glam., Neath) | Irving, Dan | Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) |
| Elliot, Capt. Walter E. (Lanark) | Jameson, John Gordon | Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas Henry |
| Pease, Rt. Hon. Herbert Pike | Spencer, George A. | Watts-Morgan, Lieut.-Col. D. |
| Rae, H. Norman | Spoor, B. G. | Wedgwood, Colonel Josiah C. |
| Remnant, Sir James | Sturrock, J. Long | Wignall, James |
| Rendall, Athelstan | Sutton, John Edward | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) | Swan, J. E. | Wilson, James (Dudley) |
| Robertson, John | Taylor, J. | Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Stourbridge) |
| Robinson, S. (Brecon and Radnor) | Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby) | Winfrey, Sir Richard |
| Rose, Frank H. | Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) | Winterton, Earl |
| Royce, William Stapleton | Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West) | Wintringham, Margaret |
| Scott, A. M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton) | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.) | Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) |
| Shaw, Thomas (Preston) | Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow) | Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.) |
| Short, Alfred (Wednesbury) | Warren, Sir Alfred H. | |
| Simm, M. T. | Waterson, A. E. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Smith, W. R. (Wellingborough) | Watson, Captain John Bertrand | Mr. Rhys Davies and Mr. T. Griffiths. |
Question put, and agreed to.
§ Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. Macquisten, Mr. Charles White, and Rear-Admiral Sueter.