§ Mr. DEVLINYesterday, Mr. Speaker, I sent a question to the Secretary of State for the Colonies, and I forwarded a copy to you, stating that I proposed to ask the right hon. Gentleman to-day to give some explanation as to the condition of affairs in the city of Belfast under which attacks have been made upon innocent people, the hospital to which the wounded were brought has been attacked, and soldiers have been wounded. You sent the question back to me, Sir, and stated in your letter that you could not allow me to ask this question because it was a matter for the Parliament of Northern Ireland. I want to know why 1085 it is that, although the Order Paper is covered each day with questions dealing with occurrences in Southern Ireland—although these questions are not only put down on the Order Paper, but are permitted by you to be asked in the House—I am denied the only right I have, and the only privilege I possess, as the representative of these people in Belfast, to put down similar questions to a Minister in this House?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe reason why I did not accept the question sent to me by the hon. Member is this. By Statute, Parliament has transferred the responsibility for law and order in a certain part of Ireland to the Northern Parliament, and it is therefore in that Parliament that questions relating to that administration should be raised. In the ease of Southern Ireland, until the present Bill be passed we still hold a technical responsibility. I admit it appears at first sight anomalous, and I am glad the hon. Member has put this question to me. Until the present Bill be passed, although the Provisional Government may be in being, we hold a technical responsibility, and that is the reason why this apparently dissimilar treatment exists for a short time.
§ Lieut.-Colonel W. ASHLEYOn a point of Order. In view of the ruling you have just given, Sir, supposing someone domiciled in England felt himself aggrieved by anything that happened in Belfast, would there be a right to put a question in this House, seeing that the aggrieved person was domiciled in this country.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat would depend entirely on whether it was a grievance as to which this Ministry had a responsibility. I could not give a general answer to the question, which is rather vague.
§ Mr. DEVLINMay I ask whether, although the functions of the Northern Parliament are recognised by this Parliament, this House does not still retain its authority over the military in Belfast? One of the matters which I wanted to have investigated and clarified was with reference to the wounding of two soldiers of the Norfolk Regiment. In these circumstances is the Secretary for War not responsible for the conduct of military administration in Ireland, and would he not 1086 be entitled to deal with that particular portion of my question?
§ Mr. T. P. O'CONNORBefore you answer that, Mr. Speaker, may I call your attention to the fact that during the Debates in Committee, in reference to the Irish Free State Bill, a question was raised regarding the protection of the shores of Ulster, and an Amendment was proposed for the purpose of securing more adequate protection, as the Proposers thought, than could be got by leaving the matter undetermined. The Colonial Secretary, in answer to this suggestion, said that the Royal Navy remained the absolute master and the uncontrolled master—or some such terms as these—of the naval forces of the Crown, for the protection of the shores of Northern Ireland. I do not contest that statement, nor do I criticise it, but I ask whether, by parity of reasoning, where representatives of the military forces of the Empire are endangered and destroyed, the authority of the Imperial Government with regard to the conduct of military affairs in Belfast does not remain untouched.
§ Mr. SPEAKERI do not think that there is any relevancy to the present question in what the hon. Member has just told me. In any case, as I am not present at the Committee, I can say nothing about what proceedings have taken place in Committee of the House. With regard to the second question put to me by the hon. Member for Falls Division (Mr. Devlin), there is a distinction between responsibility for the military forces and responsibility, for the police and for general law and order in Ireland. The question, as he submitted it to me, was not addressed to the War Office, but to the Secretary for the Colonies. Even with regard to the military, the responsibility for calling in the military lies with the civil power in Northern Ireland, as in this country; and it is only when a question comes before me, for which the Secretary for War here can properly take responsibility, that I can admit such a question with regard to the military.
§ Mr. DEVLINI do not think you are aware of it, Sir, but I ought to inform you that last week, I put down a question dealing with the military administration in Ulster. I addressed the question 1087 to the Secretary for War, and I got a written communication from him two days afterwards, that I ought to address my question to the Secretary for the Colonies.
§ Mr. DONALDIs it not a fact that when military were being murdered in Southern Ireland, not a solitary word of sympathy came from the hon. Member for Falls?
§ Mr. SPEAKERThat is the very kind of unpleasant controversy which leads to the questions now put to me. With regard to the question last week, I myself declined a question which was proposed to be put on the Order Paper by the hon. Member (Mr. Devlin), for the same reason as I have just stated. I said then that it was only when there was a special responsibility on the part of the Secretary for War—I assumed it was not so in this case—that questions could be allowed in the House.
§ Mr. DEVLINI want to be perfectly clear on the matter. Do I understand that if I want to raise, in the form of a question, any of these matters of which I complain, with regard to military administration or military activities in Ulster, I am to put down my question to the Secretary for War and not to the Secretary for the Colonies, and, if so, whether such questions will be put upon the Paper? There is no use putting Members to the trouble of writing out questions, and preparing them, and then telling them a week afterwards that these questions cannot be asked.
§ Mr. SPEAKERIf the hon. Member will offer a question addressed to the Secretary for War on any question affecting that Minister's responsibility, I will, if it be a proper question, admit it to the Order Paper.
§ Mr. RONALD McNEILLThis raises a very interesting and important question and, on a point of Order, may I ask whether there is any Standing Order or whether it has ever been specifically laid down, even with regard to the self-governing Dominions, that it is not open to Members of this House to put questions on the subject of the Dominions, for instance, of Canada or of Australia, to the Colonial Secretary and even on foreign countries to the Foreign Secretary? 1088 Is the purpose of questions in this House not to obtain information which may be of use to Members, and is the responsibility of the Secretary for the Colonies not such as to oblige him to give information to Members of this House even as to occurrences in the self-governing Dominions?
§ Mr. SPEAKERIt would be the very destruction of our system of responsible Government in the Empire were we to have questions put in this House about the administration of Ministers in the self-governing Dominions. I am quite sure my predecessor gave that ruling in my hearing very frequently, and it has been an established rule for a great many years.
§ Lord R. CECILThis matter is so important that, perhaps, you will permit me to put a further question in order to elucidate the matter. I quite recognise and understand your ruling that it is impossible to discuss in this House, by question and answer, matters which come exclusively within the cognizance of Ministers of our Dominions; but where events take place in our Dominions which raise questions beyond mere internal order, questions which create difficulties with neighbouring States or difficulties, as in this ease, with Southern Ireland, surely, I would very respectfully submit, it would be right and proper for this House to take into consideration that aspect, at any rate, of the matter. May I suggest, very respectfully, that that is particularly true in the case of Northern Ireland, when we have the happiness of having Members in this House from that district. Even after the arrangements made by the Act of 1920 are complete, there will still be representatives of Northern Ireland in this House, who will sit here for all purposes and be able to ask any question they like about any matter of administration in this country.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe Noble Lord will see, I think, that whether or not a matter in the administration of a self-governing Dominion affects another part of the Empire or of the world is a question of personal opinion. There can scarcely be a matter on which some people might not hold that it will have such an effect. I think, therefore, if we followed that reasoning, we should be drawn into a dangerous position.
§ Mr. DEVLINMay I respectfully point out that there is no analogy between the position of a self-governing colony and the position of Northern Ireland, because Northern Ireland is represented in this House, and this House therefore has authority. The Northern Parliament having power in this House, this House ought to recognise, and it ought to have power over Northern Ireland. I want to know whether the Catholics of Belfast are to continue to be butchered in the fashion that they are now being butchered without our having power to defend them. There is no Ulster Parliament meeting. This Parliament is meeting now, and I want to have some redress in this matter.
§ Mr. HAILWOODAre we to take it that hon. Members from Ulster are here to interfere and criticise with regard to the rest of the British Empire, and that we are not to be able to ask questions about Ulster?
§ Mr. SPEAKERI have already said A that by Statute we have provided for the transfer of responsibility for law and order to a Parliament sitting in Northern Ireland. Having done that, it is quite impossible for us to have questions and answers on a subject for which Ministers on this Bench do not hold responsibility. I cannot say more than that.
§ Mr. SPEAKERHon. Members must not further argue the question.