HC Deb 03 March 1921 vol 138 cc1977-84
8. Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether compensation will be paid, or has been paid, to the relatives of the late Mr. Crowley, murdered by cadet Hart, of the Auxiliary Police; who will find the money; whether he is aware that Mr. Brady, resident magistrate, was present at the beating and murder of Crowley and Canon Magner, and states that the other cadets in the lorry made no attempt to interfere; that Mr. Brady's house was subsequently raided; whether Mr. Brady was called as a witness at the official investigation; whether these other cadets were punished in any way; and whether any of them are now employed in Ireland?

The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Colonel Sir Hamar Greenwood)

It is open to the relatives of the late Mr. Crowley to claim compensation in the ordinary way under the Criminal Injuries Act. Such compensation would be payable from the local rates. In regard to the remainder of the question, a written statement by Mr. Brady, setting out in full the circumstances of the murder, was fully considered in the course of the official investigation into the conduct of the cadets who were witnesses of the occurrence. As a result of this investigation it was decided that these cadets were in no way responsible for the crime, and that no action was called for in their case.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

Does the right hon. Gentleman think it just in a case of admitted murder by a policeman that the rates should be charged with the compensation to the relatives? Has he not enough humanity to award some compensation—[HON. MEMBERS: "Shame!"]—to the widow and seven children without their having to claim against the rates?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

I hope I have as much humanity as any hon. Member. Many very, very grievous cases come to me every day. I cannot alter the law, and my answer must remain that the relatives of Mr. Crowley can claim compensation in the ordinary way under the Criminal Injuries Act.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

Was not something paid to Mrs. Quin and was her husband forced to appeal? Cannot the right hon. Gentleman exercise a little grace in these matters?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

I must ask for notice of that.

Mr. DEVLIN

The husband of this poor woman was murdered by one of the uniformed officers of the Crown, who was found guilty of murdering an innocent man on a country roadside. Does the right hon. Gentleman declare, apart from humanity or the question of justice, that the Government are not responsible for compensation to be given to this poor woman whose husband has been murdered?

Lord H. CAVENDISH-BENTINCK

Is not the right hon. Gentleman dishonouring the humanity of the British nation?

Mr. DEVLIN

May I press for an answer to my question? The Government cannot bring this man's life back, they cannot return him to his widow and little children. What does the right hon. Gentleman propose to do for the victims of one of the cruellest murders ever committed?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

Like every other hon. Member of this House, I am bound by the law passed by this House. I cannot alter it. As it now stands, anyone who sustains malicious injuries has a legal remedy, and it is impossible for me, with the best wishes in the world, to go outside the law.

Mr. WATERSON

Is the right hon. Gentleman prepared to make representations to the Cabinet on the lines suggested by the question of the hon. Member for the Falls Division of Belfast (Mr. Devlin)?

Mr. LAWSON

Has not the right hon. Gentleman declared at that box that when the Crown Forces are found guilty of destruction or killing the Treasury will bear the expense and not the county?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

I have never said that. I have said that in hard cases I will consider the matter, but while Ireland is in a state of rebellion it is impossible to give a definite decision on isolated cases, however hard.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

Was Mr. Brady's house raided?

Mr. DEVLIN

If the right hon. Gentleman's interpretation of the law is correct—that he has no power to grant compensation—how can he consider special cases? Will he introduce a short Bill into the House of Commons to so change the law as to enable him to pay compensation to these horribly treated people, the wives and children of victims of officers of the law admitted by the Military Courts to have committed these crimes against innocent people.

Sir H. GREENWOOD

Any question as to future legislation I must ask to have notice of.

Mr. DEVLIN

May I ask—

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member has had his answer.

9. Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

asked the Chief Secretary whether he is aware that John O'Connor, of Gloundaeagh, Farranfore, Co. Kerry, was arrested on 15th December last whilst on his way to church, and driven away in a motor lorry; that he was beaten while in the lorry, thrown from the lorry into the road, fired on, and wounded; that civilians then carried him into the house of Thomas Brosnan, Threegneves, Currow, Farranfore, where he was tended by the Rev. J. J. O'Sullivan, of Killentierna, Farranfore; that four officers returned from Farranfore, to which place the lorry had proceeded, in a motor car, and, on ascertaining from the Rev. J. J. O'Sullivan where O'Connor lay wounded, entered Brosnan's house and murdered O'Connor by firing three revolver bullets into his head; whether he is aware that the Rev. J. J. O'Sullivan, Mr. Brosnan, and other eye witnesses are prepared to testify to the foregoing facts on oath; whether an inquiry has been held; whether these witnesses were called; what was the finding; what action, if any, has been taken; and whether any compensation is to be paid to the widow and seven children of the murdered man?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

I am informed by the Commander-in-Chief that the inquiry directed by him to be made into the circumstances attending the death of this man is still proceeding. It will be the duty of the court to obtain and weigh all the available evidence, and I am requesting the Commander-in-Chief to furnish me with the result of the proceedings at the earliest possible date.

Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHY

Is it not a fact that I drew the attention of the right hon. Gentleman to this case two months ago, and how is it that it takes nearly three months before a disgraceful episode of this sort is looked into?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

Without prejudging the facts of the case, it is a matter for the Commander-in-Chief. The area is under martial law, and I must, naturally, await the result of his inquiry.

13. Mr. SWAN

asked the Chief Secretary whether at the court-martial which convicted Conway and Potter of the murder of Lieutenant Angliss 15 witnesses were brought to prove an alibi for Conway and seven to prove that Potter was in bed at the time?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

The answer is in the affirmative.

23. Mr. GRIFFITHS

asked the Chief Secretary whether he is aware that on the 30th January a body of auxiliaries, accompanied by two sergeants of the Elphin Royal Irish Constabulary, surrounded Creeve Catholic Church, while Mass was in progress, and planted a machine gun in a field commanding the sacred edifice; that as the congregation left the church they were all, including women and children, searched, and a number of men were beaten with rifles, etc., in the course of an attempt to extort from them information as to persons on the run; that, in the act of striking a young man with a rifle, one of the auxiliaries missed his aim and smashed a church window; that the officiating priest was subjected to search, during the progress of which he was compelled to keep the sacred Host, which was in his custody at the time, in his outstretched hand in order to prevent desecration; that the church and sacristy were thoroughly searched, the priest being forced to open the tabernacle on the high altar; that even an empty ciborium, used for the custody of the sacred communion wafers, was peered into; that a tabernacle on a side altar, for which the priest had no key, was broken open; and whether, in view of the enormity, in the eyes of the people, of this sacrilege, he will have inquiries made into the matter, and give instructions that such acts shall not be repeated?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

I have called for a report with reference to these allegations. If the hon. Member will kindly repeat one day next week this question, of which I only received notice on Tuesday, I hope then to be able to furnish him with a reply.

Mr. DEVLIN

When an incident of this character takes place, when it is notorious that it has taken place, and when the fact that it has taken place has been published in the Press, does not the right hon. Gentleman himself inquire into the truth or otherwise of the allegations made?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

Reports come to me in the usual way, but I cannot accept reports in the Press as accurate—

Mr. WATERSON

Not when prompted by the Government?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

And if an hon. Member asks me a question on a specific event or incident, I am bound to refer to the authorities in Ireland for an official answer.

Mr. DEVLIN

When charges and allegations of so serious a character as these are made against the uniformed officers of the Crown, and when these facts are notorious and are published in the Press, does not the right hon. Gentleman, in the interests of his own administration, call for reports at the time in order to gather whether they are accurate or not? It is now five weeks since this outrage took place, and since it was published in the Press that it had taken place.

Sir H. GREENWOOD

If an outrage has taken place inquiry is automatically made into it; but, unless it is raised by an hon. Member of this House, I do not personally ask for a report of every alleged outrage in Ireland.

Mr. DEVLIN

When an inquiry has automatically taken place, is the right hon. Gentleman informed of the result of that inquiry?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

Certainly, in the usual way, if I call for a report of a specific case; but not all reports on alleged outrages in Ireland are forwarded to me.

Captain REDMOND

May I ask who are the authorities in this case—whether this body of auxiliaries are under the control of the military or of the police authorities?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

I should require notice of that question. I send my request to both authorities for a report from both—the Commander-in-Chief and the Chief of the Police.

Captain REDMOND

Has the time not yet arrived when the right hon. Gentleman can definitely inform the House under what control this irregular body of auxiliaries are—whether they are under the military or the police, or any control?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

Perhaps I may answer that question in addition to what was said in Debate the other night. In the martial law area all the police and military are under General Strickland. In the rest of Ireland the police and military work in co-operation, but the police are under their police head, and the military under the Commander-in-Chief.

Mr. DEVLIN

Who really is the head of the police in Ireland?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

General Tudor.

Mr. DEVLIN

What is his precise position?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

Chief of Police.

55. Mr. T. GRIFFITHS

asked the Chief Secretary whether he is now in a position to state the result of his inquiry into the case of Mr. E. Dorrins, a member of the United Operative Plumbers and Domestic Engineers' Association, who was taken from his bed at his own home in Dublin at 12.30 a.m. on 3rd February by Crown forces, and after ill-treatment by them was conveyed in a motor lorry through the city and was asked by the officer in charge whether he would like to be drowned or shot, and was taken to Capel Street bridge where three members of the Crown forces flung him into the river; and what action he proposes to take in the matter?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

I have made careful inquiry into this matter and am informed that Mr. Dorrins was admitted to the Jervis Street Hospital, Dublin, about midnight on the 3rd ultimo, suffering from shock as the result of being immersed in water, and was detained as a patient for a week, but that the police have been unable to obtain any information as to the persons by whom he was assaulted. The military authorities to whom I have also applied have no knowledge of the occurrence.

57. Mr. MOSLEY

asked the Chief Secretary how many members of the forces of the Crown formed the escort in charge of James Murphy on the evening of the 9th February last when James Murphy was murdered?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

Three persons have been arrested and are awaiting trial for this murder. It would, therefore, in my view be improper for me to make any statement at present in regard to the facts of the case.

Mr. MOSLEY

Cannot the right hon. Gentleman state whether there were only three persons on this lorry or whether there were more?

60. Mr. DEVLIN

asked the Chief Secretary whether his attention has been called to the action of the Crown forces at Cahirvoneen, near Kinvarra, County Galway; whether these forces stripped naked six young farmers, and put them lying face down on the ground with heavy stones over them; whether, after burning their clothes, they forced these young men to carry from the farmhouse of Mrs. Quinn fowl, bacon, flour, and other things to a lorry which was waiting, after which they mercilessly beat these young men and dismissed them; and whether he will take any action to have the guilty parties punished?

Sir H. GREENWOOD

As I stated, in reply to a question by the hon. Member for the Harrow Division on Tuesday, I have directed full inquiry to be made into this matter. I must necessarily await the receipt of that report before making any further statement in regard to this matter.

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