§ 34. Mr. DEVLINasked the Prime Minister whether any provision exists for an appeal from a death sentence passed by the military courts set up in Ireland under the Restoration of Order Act, 1920, and other Acts; and, if not, whether, in view of the large number of death sentences inflicted by these courts, he will make immediate provision for appeals to the civil courts from such military courts?
§ Sir H. GREENWOODI have been asked to reply.
§ Mr. DEVLINI want the Prime Minister to answer it.
§ Sir H. GREENWOODThe Prime Minister has asked me to answer it, and I am going to do it. The Restoration of Order in Ireland Act, 1920, passed only last August in circumstances familiar to this House, contains no provision for an appeal to any civil court from the courts-martial to which jurisdiction is given under that Act. The procedure of these courts follows the law and practice relating to courts-martial held under the Army Act, for which a sufficient and suitable system of review is in force, and from which any appeal to a civil court would be entirely inappropriate. The proceedings of these, as of all other courts-martial, are reviewed by the Judge Advocate-General before confirmation of sentence. The accused can also avail himself of his right to petition the Commander-in-Chief and the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland. It is not proposed to take any such action as is suggested.
§ Mr. DEVLINMay I ask the Prime Minister whether in view of the fact that a universal feeling prevails in the country that many innocent men are being executed—[HON. MEMBERS: "No!"]—I know and you do not—he will consider the desirability of setting up some non-military tribunal for the purpose of having all the evidence investigated before the sentence is carried out?
§ The PRIME MINISTERWe considered very carefully before, we ever set 1993 up martial law the desirability of setting up a civil tribunal. We should have bean very glad to do it if it had been possible, but we came to the conclusion, that having regard to all the exigencies, it was quite impossible to do so. To do so at the present moment would, I think, interfere with the course of justice. Everyone is very shocked at the necessity for inflicting the death penalty on a largo number of men, but, after all, if you only look at the figures you will find there are far more murders than there have been punishments.
§ Mr. DEVLINMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman a question which I know he will treat sympathetically, whether he is aware that really the major portion of all the evils which have sprung up in Ireland during the last four years were due to the executions in 1916, and whether, in view of the crop of troubles which have been consequent on those executions and the great feeling of horror created in the country, he will consider the desirability of trying to do something to stop this thing and try to approach the question in some other way, and not continue a policy which is bound to poison all future relations between this country and Ireland?
§ Sir J. BUTCHERAm I right in supposing that in the rebellion of 1916 some 300 of our soldiers were murdered, and only 15 executions at most?
§ Mr. DEVLINIn the rebellion there were a number of people killed as well.
§ The PRIME MINISTERThat is undoubtedly so, and the same thing applies now, though not quite in the same proportion. Anyone who looks at the figures will realise that we cannot possibly allow murder to go unpunished. The only suggestion my hon. Friend put forward was that there should be an appeal, but he now goes very much further, and practically suggests that we should not punish the murderer at all. That, I think, is something which will not commend itself to his more mature reflection. With regard to finding any other methods of pacification I should be only too glad to do so. There is another question put by the Noble Lord above the Gangway (Lord H. Cavendish-Bentinck) which I 1994 propose to answer later on. I should be very glad if it were possible to find other methods.
§ Sir D. MACLEANDoes the Prime Minister recollect that when the Restoration of Order in Ireland Bill was passing through this House he stated that the infliction of the death penalty would require some further authority from this House, and, secondly, in such a case as that of the man James Allen, who was shot for being in possession of a revolver and a military book, where there is no evidence of complicity to murder but simply the possession of arms—[HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"] May I be allowed to put my question?
§ Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHYThey do not like it.
§ Earl WINTERTONRemember Woolwich, and do not try to bully us.
§ Sir D. MACLEANHon. Members opposite seem to resent the putting of a most serious question. [HON. MEMBERS: "Speech."] I will repeat the question: Whether the Prime Minister recollects that when the Restoration of Order in Ireland Bill was going through this House, he stated that the infliction of the death penalty would require further authority from this House, and, in the second place, in such a case as that of the man James Allen, who was shot the other day for being in possession of a revolver and a military book, whether he will see that there is an appeal allowed to the highest military authority from the Court which passes the death sentence?
§ The PRIME MINISTERMy right hon. Friend is quite wrong. I never said that when martial law was proclaimed it would require further authority from this House. If he will only refer to the statement which I made on the Friday, when I announced martial law, he will see that I stated most distinctly that unless deadly weapons were surrendered by a certain date, every man found in possession of them would have the death penalty inflicted. James Allen had in his possession not only a revolver, but three dumdum bullets. What did he have those bullets for? If murder is to be stopped in Ireland, very exemplary punishment must be inflicted upon those who, in defiance of an order of the Government, 1995 insist upon keeping weapons of this kind in their possession. They are only using them for the purpose of murder.
§ Mr. DEVLINYou have no evidence of that.
§ The PRIME MINISTERNo evidence! What more evidence do you want than the fact that a man, after an order has been given that weapons must be surrendered, had in his possession a revolver and three dum-dum bullets?
§ Mr. DEVLINCan the right hon. Gentleman say whether this declaration is to be universally applied in Ireland, and whether he is aware of the fact that persons found guilty of carrying revolvers and ammunition in Ulster have been fined 40s. and costs?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThat is not in a martial law area. There are other parts of Ireland that are not under martial law.
§ Major MACKENZIE WOODCan the right hon. Gentleman say what period is allowed between the confirmation and the carrying out of the sentence?