NEW CLAUSE.—(Amendment of First Schedule of Principal Act.) (Hansard, 27 June 1921)

§ Sir ASHTON LISTER
I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
The object of the Amendment is to exempt the police from the payment of unemployment levy. These men are not likely to be unemployed except for disobedience or neglect of duty.

§ Mr. HURD
I beg to second the Motion.

§ The MINISTER of LABOUR (Dr. Macnamara)
Part II of the First Schedule of the Act of 1920 sets out the employments which are or may be excepted from unemployment insurance. Various forms of employment are excepted by Schedule, and this, which the Amendment covers, may be excepted within the discretion of the Minister. The police are in the latter category, and my hon. Friend wants to put them into the former—that they should be excepted by Schedule. Let me explain. Shortly after the Act of 1920 was passed, the Home Office wrote to my Department and asked, in view of the fact that members of the force are safeguarded against dismissal except for offences against discipline or for unfitness to perform their duties, that I should issue a 1848 certificate excepting them from the Unemployment Insurance Act. I did so. So far as the Amendment of my hon. Friend has substance, it has been covered. Those concerned are not excepted by Schedule, but by act of discretion. My hon. Friend may say, "Why not, therefore, remove them by Statute from the second category into the former?" The answer is that, if the proposed new Clause were adopted, then the temporary police, for whom, obviously, I must make some provision by way of unemployment insurance, would be excepted by the Act. That I cannot do. I do not think it would be right. The same consideration would apply to women police. I do not know, and I can scarcely say, that their position to-day is fully established and stabilised, and for me to absolve myself from any necessity for making provision for them should they be unemployed would be wrong. Therefore I cannot accept this proposed new Clause. My certificate has already done, I can assure my hon. Friend, what is required.

§ Sir R. ADKINS
I am quite sure there is not a large amount of difference between my hon. Friend who moved the Amendment and the right hon. Gentleman the Minister for Labour. The right hon. Gentleman is, however, carrying the thing too far when he says that the object is achieved by the issuing of a certificate at his discretion, and at the request of the Home Secretary. I have not the least doubt that while these two right hon. Gentlemen occupy, with universal approval, their present posts, the exchange of these certificates will be automatic. It is, however, very desirable that where, in fact, an important class of employé is excepted from a Bill of this kind, that it should, if possible, be done by Statute and not by Departmental action. I agree that there arises a perfectly valid point when you are dealing with temporary police. We should all expect from the right hon. Gentleman that he would be extremely careful to see that persons giving valuable help, though in temporary employment, are not put at any disadvantage in connection with unemployment benefit. I suggest—and surely he will agree—that it is very much better to have this in the Schedule. If there are any particular difficulties in accepting the form of words of my hon. Friend, then, perhaps, my right hon. Friend the Minister will see if in another 1849 place a form of words can be arrived at which will allow for the particular exceptions and will, at least, bring the police into the same position as other persons. Unless my right hon. Friend can try to follow the suggestion made, I can assure him that here and in another place a great deal would be said and done on this matter, to which some attach great importance, in order to get it put right.

§ Mr. HURD
May I point out to the right hon. Gentleman that this is a matter upon which a very fine body of men feel very strongly? I do hope he will see his way to consider the suggestion just made. It will be quite possible to alter the words if the right hon. Gentleman and my hon. Friend get together, and I trust the matter will not be left in its present unsatisfactory state.

§ Dr. MACNAMARA
I fully appreciate the point made by my hon. Friends. I will see whether the exception can be provided for in another place by Statute rather than by discretion, although the certificate has already been given in proper circumstances.