26. Major BARNESasked the Prime Minister if the Industrial Council set up in 1911 by the Board of Trade is in being; if so, whether it could be usefully employed in the coal, cotton, and engineering disputes; and, if not, whether he will consider the advisability of re-establishing it for that purpose?
§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the MINISTRY of LABOUR (Sir Montague Barlow)I have been asked to reply. The Industrial Council referred to is no longer in being, and the second part of my hon. and gallant Friend's question therefore does not arise, but I am inclined to doubt whether a council constituted in this manner could have played a useful part in the coal, cotton or engineering disputes. Experience shows, I think, that trades such as these would be jealous of interference from a body representative of other industries. The whole question of the relations between employers and employed was considered by the Committee presided over by Mr. Speaker, and the machinery for conciliation or arbitration, or for the appointment of courts of inquiry, prescribed in the Industrial Courts Act, represents the policy advocated by that Committee.
Mr. J. JONESIs the hon. Gentleman aware that, although a great amount of machinery has been established under the Act, the employers are now refusing to honour the findings?
§ Sir M. BARLOWI am not aware of any cases of that kind, but if my hon. Friend will draw my attention to them I will look into them.
Mr. JONESIs the hon. Gentleman aware that only this afternoon there was a conference in connection with the tramway industry, and a report was given that wages should not be reduced before the end of the year, but the employers are now demanding an immediate reduction? Is not that a variation of the findings of the Court?
§ 45. Lord ROBERT CECILasked the Prime Minister what is the policy of the Government for dealing with the present industrial position and the relations between capital and labour; whether it includes a recognition of the community of interest between employers and employed and the encouragement of the participation of the workmen in the management and profits of industry; and whether the Government intend, to take any steps to promote the revival and efficiency of the Industrial Council established in 1919?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINThe policy of the Government in this matter is based on the recommendations of the Committee on the Relations between Employers and Employed, presided over by Mr. Speaker. The main recommendations of that Committee concerned the setting up in organised industries of Joint Industrial Councils, representative of employers' associations and trade unions, to deal with matters of common interest to employers and workpeople. Such councils exist and are functioning in 70 industries. The Committee also made certain recommendations for the settlement of industrial disputes, which were carried out in substance by the Industrial Courts Act of 1919. The policy includes a recognition of the community of interests between employers and employed, but the Committee refrained from making suggestions as to participation in profits. In reply to the last part of the question, the National Industrial Council was not actually set up. This was due to a number of reasons, but mainly to the fact that it could not be made fully representative of the trade unions of the country. If my Noble Friend has any suggestions on this matter to make, they shall be carefully considered.
§ Lord R. CECILIs it not a fact that although the Industrial Council was not fully representative of all the trade unions, yet it was representative of the great majority of the trade unions?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINIt failed to secure the support of some of the largest and most influential unions in the country. That is the main reason.
§ Mr. KENNEDYIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the principle of profit-sharing in industry has over and over again been condemned and repudiated by practically every working-class organisation in the country?
§ Lord R. CECILWas it not supported by the Leader of Labour?
Mr. CHAMBERLAINI do not think I ought to be invited to debate profit-sharing in answer to questions in the House.
§ Mr. W. THORNEIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that in all cases where the employers are now asking for a reduction of wages the workmen are asking for arbitration under the Act mentioned, and that the employers in every case are refusing to go to arbitration?