HC Deb 24 February 1921 vol 138 cc1150-97

Resolution reported, That for the purposes of any Act of the present Session relating to insurance against unemployment it is expedient:—

  1. 1. To authorise the payment, out of moneys provided by Parliament, of—
    1. (a) a contribution towards unemployment benefit and any other payment to be made out of the unemployment fund not exceeding one-quarter of the aggregate amount of the contributions which would be received from employers and employed persons in any year if those contributions were at the rate in the case of men of elevenpence and in the case of women of ninepence per week;
    2. (b) the sums necessary for defraying the cost of providing an additional benefit at the weekly rate of two shillings for such persons formerly engaged in war service as are in receipt of unemployment benefit at any time between the commencement of the said Act and the second day of July, nineteen hundred and twenty-two;
    3. (c) the sums necessary to enable seamen, marines, soldiers, and airmen discharged after the second day of July, nineteen hundred and twenty-two, to be credited, under Section forty-one of The Unemployment Insurance Act. 1920, with one hundred and fifty-six contributions instead of with ninety contributions;
  2. 2. To authorise the Treasury to make, for the purpose of discharging the liabilities of the unemployment fund under The Unemployment Insurance Act, 1920, as amended by the said Act, advances out of the Consolidated Fund not exceeding at any time ten million pounds, and to borrow money for such advances by the issue of such securities as the Treasury think proper, the principal of and interest on any such securities to be charged on and payable out of the Consolidated Fund."— [Dr. Macnamara.]

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

When the Committee, stage of this Resolution was taken, at a late hour last night, my hon. Friend the Member for Middles-brough (Mr. T. Thomson) moved an Amendment which would have had the effect of equalising the contributions of men and women, the object benig eventually to persuade the House to equalise the benefits to be paid to men and women. It was nearly 11 o'clock, and, in accordance with the appeal of the Minister of Labour, my hon. Friend and myself did not press the matter, as we did not wish him to lose the Committee stage of his Resolution. As there is more time now, I should be glad if the right hon. Gentleman could informs us whether, if this Resolution is passed as it is now, without the Amendment equalising the contributions of men and women, we shall be precluded from moving, during the Committee stage of the Bill itself, to make the benefits equal as between men and women. As was pointed out during the Committee stage last night, although the right hon. Gentleman did not reply to it, hon. Friends of mine and myself, when the original Bill went through, tried to get these benefits made equal; and the Minister then rode off by saying that this could not be done, because the Financial Resolution bound us down to a differentiation in the contributions. It seems to me that we may be jockeyed in the same way now, unless we have some assurance that this matter will be put right elsewhere. If the Resolution passes as it is now, we stereotype the present differentiation between the benefits to men and to women, and I know that many hon. Members of this House would like to see them equalised. We should like, therefore, to have that differentiation removed. I would ask the right hon. Gentleman if he could now give us the answer which time precluded us from receiving last night.

The MINISTER of LABOUR (Dr. Macnamara)

I speak subject to your ruling, Mr. Speaker, but paragraph 1 (a) of the Financial Resolution does fix the contributions at 11d. per week in the case, of men, and 9d. per week in the case of women, and therefore, if this goes through, the contributions cannot be altered, and I should think, subject to what you may say, that any proposal to alter the benefits, unless the money were taken out of the Fund, and were not made a further charge upon the State, would require another Financial Resolution.

Mr. SPEAKER

I do not think that I quite agree with the right hon. Gentle- man in that. I think that the Amendment moved yesterday in Committee might equally be moved to-day in Committee. It is, however, really not a matter for me, but for the Chairman of Ways and Means when he is in the Chair. What cannot be done is to increase the amount which is to come out of the Exchequer. A diminution of the contribution made, or an equalisation of the contribution made, by the contributors, as between men and women, would, I think, be accepted by the Chair. I am, however, rather going out of my province, and I ought to leave the decision of the matter to the Chairman of the Committee.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

May I ask whether you would now accept from me the same Amendment which we tried to move last night?

Mr. SPEAKER

I have already proposed the Question, "That the House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution," so that I cannot now accept an Amendment.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

I am sorry that that is the case. I take it that we can now only agree or disagree, and I am afraid we shall have reluctantly to accept the Resolution as it is.

Mr. NEIL MACLEAN

Do I understand that an Amendment cannot be moved in Committee to increase the allowances to be given under the Unemployment Insurance Act, as it may lead to a further demand upon State funds which is not already provided for in the Resolution submitted by the right hon. Gentleman?

Mr. SPEAKER

Generally I may say that no Amendment can be accepted the effect of which would be to increase the amount of the Government contribution.

Question put, and agreed to.