CLAUSE 3.—(Amendments as to conditions for receipt of benefit.) (Hansard, 24 February 1921)

§ Dr. MACNAMARA
I beg to move, at the end of Sub-section (1), to insert the words Provided that no person who holds, or has at any time held, a certificate of exemption under Section three of the principal Act shall be entitled to benefit under this Section. 1264 Under Section 3 of the principal Act, exemption is granted to certain persons on the ground that insurance against unemployment is unnecessary. Therefore, to grant benefits under this Bill to persons who have obtained exemption from insurance under the principal Act on the ground of it being unnecessary, is undesirable.

Mr. THOMAS
I beg to move, to leave out Sub-section (2), and to insert instead thereof the words Provided that any person formerly engaged in war service within the meaning of this Act shall be deemed to have been engaged for the period aforesaid in such employment as aforesaid, although he has not in fact been so engaged. This Amendment deals with a class of persons who are not only entitled to the sympathy of the House, but to their very special consideration. We have made provision in this Bill for the man in employment, and have said in substance, "If you are engaged a certain period during the past year, provision is made for you here." Then we have turned to the disabled soldier, and said, "There are special circumstances in connection with your case, and, equally, you are provided for." Then we have said to the soldier not disabled, "We recognise the difficulties of your case, and in certain circumstances we are making provision for you." All that is good and necessary, but there, is one class of persons entirely omitted, the class who, above all, ought to receive the sympathies of this House. It is the discharged soldier who has come back from the War, having been promised his job, and whose employer has disregarded his obligations. There are thousands of soldiers in that position who have found themselves discharged from the Army, returning to civil life, and unable to get any job whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I am told there are thousands who, from their discharge from the Army till this moment, have not done a day's work, and those who are most deserving of all sympathy are the very people who are not provided for in this Bill. The object of my Amendment is to see that these men are not only provided for, but that their war service for the country shall be counted, and they shall not be deprived of the benefits of the Act. My right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour attempts to meet the case in another way, which I frankly 1265 recognise, but the difference between his method and mine is this. I say there ought to be no discrimination whatever. There is no room here for ambiguity, and I say that instead of meeting the position as my right hon. Friend proposes to meet it, by leaving it to the discretion of somebody, it should be provided in the Bill itself.

§ Dr. MACNAMARA
I fully sympathise, naturally, with what my right hon. Friend has said, and, of course, I do not wish any hardship inflicted upon these men, but I think, perhaps, he has not recognised the difficulties of my position. We make qualifications in the case of civilians and disabled ex-service, men, and give discretion to the local committee, and I do not see how we can differentiate in this case. I have Amendments on the Paper which, if carried, will make the Subsection read as follows: In the application of the preceding Subsection to persons formerly engaged in war service within the meaning of this Act a period of not less than ten separate calendar weeks shall be substituted for a period of not less than twenty separate calendar weeks, and if in any particular case a person who has been engaged in war service satisfies the local employment committee that his failure to be employed for the periods required by this Section was in consequence of the present War and due to circumstances not within his own control or, in the case of a disabled person. I hope that my right hon. Friend will be satisfied that, in substance, my scheme is the same as his, and in practice will enable us to carry on as we are doing at present. I would very much prefer my Amendment, and I hope he will allow it to be taken.

Mr. THOMAS
There is very little difference between us, except this. Supposing an injustice is done; that is to say, a man appears before a local committee and his claim is not admitted.

§ Dr. MACNAMARA
That is met in Subsection (3) which says: If any question arises as to whether any person satisfies the foregoing requirements, the question shall be decided by the Minister, and the Minister's decision, I may say, is final.

Mr. THOMAS
On the understanding that the provision will be fairly administered, I beg to withdraw my Amendment.

§ Dr. MACNAMARA
I beg to move, in Sub-section (3, a), after the word "employment" to insert the words, "such as would make him an employed person within the meaning of the principal Act.
The object of this Amendment is to make it clear that these benefits shall be confined to workpeople normally belonging to one or other of the trades insured against unemployment under the Act.