HC Deb 18 April 1921 vol 140 cc1667-73

Motion made, and Question proposed, That an additional number of officers and men, not exceeding 26,000, be employed for the Sea and Coast Guard Services borne on the books of His Majesty's Ships and at the Royal Marine Divisions for the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1922.

Mr. HOGGE

It was arranged with yourself, Mr. Deputy-Chairman, that we should take the whole discussion on the Army Vote, but will the Government reply to this question as to why the Government require 25,000 men for the Navy and 10,000 men for the Air Force?

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN

The Government, having to call additional forces to their aid, naturally called first the Reserve Forces already in existence. The Naval Forces have been employed partly in carrying yeast to different parts of the country and partly in protecting communications.

Mr. HOGGE

That is only telling us what their duties are. I want from the Government the reason why they extend this skeleton arrangement to follow so closely the existing arrangement of the Army in an industrial dispute for the first time?

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN

That is what I have answered.

Lieut-Commander KENWORTHY

I shall be glad to know how the Air Force are employed?

The SECRETARY of STATE for AIR (Captain Guest)

The services performed by the Air Force during these times would not be large, but would be technical and vitally important. Other portions of the Reserve called up under the same Proclamation would be for the assistance of the military and also for the protection of the material, which is extremely vulnerable and valuable.

Mr. C. WHITE

Are the Reservists going to be demobilised at the same time as the National Defence Force is demobilised, or is there any danger of their being used for services other than those connected with the industrial dispute?

Mr. HOGGE

We do not want to talk this out, but if we are not to have an answer—

Mr. CHAMBERLAIN rose in his place and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 194; Noes, 45.

Division No. 78.] AYES. [11.0 p.m.
Adair, Rear-Admiral Thomas B. S. Gibbs, Colonel George Abraham Molson, Major John Elsdale
Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. C. Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel Sir John Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred M.
Agg-Gardner, Sir Janes Tynte Glyn, Major Ralph Morden, Lieut.-Col. W. Grant
Ainsworth, Captain Charles Goff, Sir R. Park Moreing, Captain Algernon H.
Allen, Lieut.-Colonel William James Gould, James C. Morison, Rt. Hon. Thomas Brash
Amery, Lieut.-Col. Leopold C. M. S. Gray, Major Ernest (Accrington) Morris, Richard
Austin, Sir Herbert Greene, Lt.-Col. Sir W. (Hack'y, N.) Morrison-Bell, Major A. C.
Baird, Sir John Lawrence Gregory, Holman Munro, Rt. Hon. Robert
Balfour, George (Hampstead) Gretton, Colonel John Murchison, C. K.
Banbury, Rt. Hon. Sir Frederick G. Gritten, W. G. Howard Murray, John (Leeds, West)
Barlow, Sir Montague Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. Frederick E. Neal, Arthur
Barnett, Major R. W. Gwynne, Rupert S. Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter)
Bell, Lieut.-Col. W. C. H. (Devizes) Hacking, Captain Douglas H. Nicholson, Reginald (Doncaster)
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. Hamilton, Major C. G. C. Norris, Colonel Sir Henry G.
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Ormsby-Gore, Hon. W.
Benn, Capt. Sir I. H., Bart. (Gr'nw'h) Harmsworth, C. B. (Bedford, Luton) Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas Henry
Betterton, Henry B. Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) Pease, Rt. Hon. Herbert Pike
Bigland, Alfred Henderson, Major V. L. (Tradeston) Peel, Col. Hn. S. (Uxbridge, Mddx.)
Berwick, Major G. O. Henry, Denis S. (Londonderry, S.) Pennefather, De Fonblanque
Boscawen, Rt. Hon. Sir A. Griffith- Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) Philipps, Sir Owen C. (Chester, City)
Bowyer, Captain G. E. W. Hewart, Rt. Hon. Sir Gordon Pickering, Lieut.-Colonel Emil W.
Brassey, Major H. L. C. Hilder, Lieut.-Colonel Frank Pinkham, Lieut.-Colonel Charles
Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive Hills, Major John Waller Pollock, Sir Ernest M.
Brittain, Sir Harry Hinds, John Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton
Bruton, Sir James Hoare, Lieut.-Colonel Sir S. J. G. Pratt, John William
Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. Hood, Joseph Rae, H. Norman
Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) Raeburn, Sir William H.
Burn, Col. C. R. (Devon, Torquay) Home, Edgar (Surrey, Guildford) Raw, Lieutenant-Colonel N.
Carr, W. Theodore Hotchkin, Captain Stafford Vere Rees, Sir J. D. (Nottingham, East)
Casey, T. W. Hurd, Percy A. Reid, D. D.
Cayzer, Major Herbert Robin Inskip, Thomas Walker H. Richardson, Alexander (Gravesend)
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Evelyn (Birm., Aston) James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert Roberts, Rt. Hon. G. H. (Norwich)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.A. (Birm., W.) Jameson, J. Gordon Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford)
Chamberlain, N. (Birm., Ladywood) Jodrell, Neville Paul Roberts, Sir S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Chilcot, Lieut.-Com. Harry W. Johnson, Sir Stanley Robinson, S. (Brecon and Radnor)
Child, Brigadier-General Sir Hill Johnstone, Joseph Roundell, Colonel R. F.
Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington) Royds, Lieut.-Colonel Edmund
Coote, Colin Reith (Isle of Ely) Jones, J. T. (Carmarthen, Lianelly) Rutherford, Sir W. W. (Edge Hill)
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) Kidd, James Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Davidson, J. C. C. (Kemel Hempstead) King, Captain Henry Douglas Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney)
Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. Lane-Fox, G. R. Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert A.
Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S) Lewis, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Univ., Wales) Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D.
Dean, Lieut.-Commander P. T. Lindsay, William Arthur Scott, A. M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton)
Elveden, Viscount Lloyd, George Butler Seddon, J. A.
Evans, Ernest Lloyd-Greame, Sir P. Shaw, Hon. Alex. (Kilmarnock)
Falcon, Captain Michael Locker- Lampson, Com. O. (H'tingd'n) Shaw, William T. (Forfar)
Falle, Major Sir Bertram G. Lorden, John William Shortt, Rt. Hon. E. (N'castle-on-T.)
Fell, Sir Arthur Lowther, Major C. (Cumberland, N.) Smith, Sir Allan M. (Croydon, South)
Fisher, Rt. Hon. Herbert A. L. Lynn, R. J. Smith, Sir Harold (Warrington)
Flannery, Sir James Fortescue Mackinder, Sir H. J. (Camlachie) Stanier, Captain Sir Beville
Ford, Patrick Johnston McLaren, Robert (Lanark, Northern) Steel, Major S. Strang
Forrest, Walter M'Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W. Stephenson, Lieut.-Colonel H. K.
Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot McMicking, Major Gilbert Stewart, Gershom
Fraser, Major Sir Keith Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. Strauss, Edward Anthony
Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. Maddocks, Henry Sturrock, J. Leng
Gange, E. Stanley Mallalieu, F. W. Sugden, W. H.
Ganzoni, Captain Sir F. J. C. Manville, Edward Sutherland, Sir William
Thomas-Stanford, Charles Watson, Captain John Bertrand Worsfold, Dr. T. Cato
Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) White, Lieut.-Col. G. D. (Southport) Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Thorpe, Captain John Henry Whitla, Sir William Yate, Colonel Sir Charles Edward
Townley, Maximilian G. Wild, Sir Ernest Edward Young, Lieut.-Com. E. H. (Norwich)
Tryon, Major George Clement Williams, Col. Sir R. (Dorset, W.) Younger, Sir George
Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull) Wills, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Gilbert
Ward, William Dudley (Southampton) Wise, Frederick TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Waring, Major Walter Wood, Hon. Edward F. L. (Ripon) Colonel Leslie Wilson and Mr.
Warner, Sir T. Courtenay T. Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West) McCurdy.
NOES.
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) Hayward, Major Evan Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)
Barnes, Major H. (Newcastle, E.) Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Widnes) Royce, William Stapleton
Bell, James (Lancaster, Ormskirk) Hirst, G. H. Smith, W. R. (Wellingborough)
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Hodge, Rt. Hon. John Swan, J. E.
Cairns, John Irving, Dan Thomas, Brig.-Gen. Sir O. (Anglesey)
Davies, A. (Lancaster, Clitheroe) Kennedy, Thomas Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West)
Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) Kenyon, Barnet Walsh, Stephen (Lancaster, Ince)
Davison, J. E. (Smethwick) Lawson, John J. Waterson, A. E.
Edwards, G. (Norfolk, South) Lunn, William Wignall, James
Galbraith, Samuel Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) Wilson, W. Tyson (Westhoughton)
Graham, R. (Nelson and Colne) Mills, John Edmund Wintringham, T.
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) Morgan, Major D. Watts Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.)
Grundy, T. W. Myers, Thomas Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Guest, J. (York, W. R., Hemsworth) O'Grady, Captain James
Hall, F. (York. W.R., Normanton) Parkinson, John Allen (wigan) TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Hartshorn, Vernon Raffan, Peter Wilson Mr. Hogge and Mr. C. White.

Question put accordingly.

The Committee divided: Ayes, 194; Noes, 45.

Division No. 79.] AYES. [11. 10 p.m.
Adair, Rear-Admiral Thomas B. S. Ford, Patrick Johnston Lane-Fox, G. R.
Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. C. Forrest, Walter Lewis, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Univ., Wales)
Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot Lindsay, William Arthur
Ainsworth, Captain Charles France, Gerald Ashburner Lloyd, George Butler
Allen, Lieut.-Colonel William James Fraser, Major Sir Keith Lloyd-Greame, Sir P.
Amery, Lieut.-Col. Leopold C. M. S. Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. Locker-Lampson, Com. O. (H'tingd'n)
Austin, Sir Herbert Gange, E. Stanley Lorden, John William
Baird, Sir John Lawrence Ganzoni, Captain Sir F. J. C. Lowther, Major C. (Cumberland, N.)
Balfour, George (Hampstead) Gibbs, Colonel George Abraham Lynn, R. J.
Banbury, Rt. Hon. Sir Frederick G. Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel Sir John Mackinder, Sir H. J. (Camlachie)
Barlow, Sir Montague Glyn, Major Ralph McLaren, Robert (Lanark, Northern)
Barnett, Major R. W. Goff, Sir R. Park M'Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W.
Bell, Lieut.-Col. W. C. H. (Devizes) Gould, James C. McMicking, Major Gilbert
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. Gray, Major Ernest (Accrington) Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I.
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Greene, Lt.-Col. Sir W. (Hack'y, N.) Maddocks, Henry
Benn, Capt. Sir I. H., Bart. (Gr'nw'h) Gregory, Holman Mallalieu, F. W.
Betterton, Henry B. Gretton, Colonel John Manville, Edward
Bigland, Alfred Gritten, W. G. Howard Molson, Major John Elsdale
Borwick, Major G. O. Guest, Capt. Rt. Hon. Frederick E. Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred M.
Boscawen, Rt. Hon. Sir A. Griffith- Gwynne, Rupert S. Morden, Lieut.-Col. W. Grant
Bowyer, Captain G. E. W. Hacking, Captain Douglas H. Moreing, Captain Algernon H.
Brassey, Major H. L. C. Hamilton, Major C. G. C. Morison, Rt. Hon. Thomas Brash
Bridgeman, Rt. Hon. William Clive Hannon, Patrick Joseph Henry Morris, Richard
Brittain, Sir Harry Harmsworth, C. B. (Bedford, Luton) Morrison-Bell, Major A. C.
Bruton, Sir James Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) Munro, Rt. Hon. Robert
Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. Henderson, Major V. L. (Tradeston) Murchison, C. K.
Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James Henry, Denis S. (Londonderry, S.) Murray, John (Leeds, West)
Burn, Col. C. R. (Devon, Torquay) Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) Neal, Arthur
Carr, W. Theodore Hewart, Rt. Hon. Sir Gordon Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter)
Catty, T. W. Hilder, Lieut.-Colonel Frank Nicholson, Reginald (Doncaster)
Cayzer, Major Herbert Robin Hills, Major John Waller Norris, Colonel Sir Henry G.
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Evelyn (Birm., Aston) Hinds, John Ormsby-Gore, Hon. W.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Birm., W.) Hoare, Lieut.-Colonel Sir S. J. G. Pease, Rt. Hon. Herbert Pike
Chamberlain, N. (Birm., Ladywood) Hood, Joseph Peel, Col. Hn. S. (Uxbridge, Mddx.)
Chilcot, Lieut.-Com. Harry W. Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) Pennefather, De Fonblanque
Child, Brigadier-General Sir Hill Home, Edgar (Surrey, Guildford) Philipps, Sir Owen C. (Chester, City)
Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale Horne, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead) Pickering, Lieut.-Colonel Emil W.
Cowan, D. M. (Scottish Universities) Hotchkin, Captain Stafford Vere Pinkham, Lieut.-Colonel Charles
Davidson, J. C. C. (Kernel Hempstead) Hurd, Percy A. Pollock, Sir Ernest M.
Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. Inskip, Thomas Walker H. Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton
Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert Pratt, John William
Dean, Lieut.-Commander P. T. Jameson, J. Gordon Rae, H. Norman
Elveden, viscount Jodrell, Neville Paul Raeburn, Sir William H.
Evans, Ernest Johnson, Sir Stanley Raw, Lieutenant-Colonel N.
Falcon, Captain Michael Johnstone, Joseph Rees, Sir J. D. (Nottingham, East)
Falle, Major Sir Bertram G. Jones, G. W. H. (Stoke Newington) Reid, D. D.
Fell, Sir Arthur Jones, J. T. (Carmarthen, Lianelly) Richardson, Alexander (Gravesend)
Fisher, Rt. Hon. Herbert A. L. Kidd, James Roberts, Rt. Hon. G. H. (Norwich)
Flannery, Sir James Fortescue King, Captain Henry Douglas Roberts, Samuel (Hereford, Hereford)
Roberts, Sir S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) Steel, Major S. Strang White, Lieut.-Col. G. D. (Southport)
Robinson, S. (Brecon and Radnor) Stephenson, Lieut.-Colonel H. K. Whitla, Sir William
Roundell, Colonel R. F. Stewart, Gershom Wild, Sir Ernest Edward
Royds, Lieut.-Colonel Edmund Strauss, Edward Anthony Williams, Col. Sir R. (Dorset, W.)
Rutherford, Sir W. W. (Edge Hill) Sturrock, J. Leng Wills, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Gilbert
Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) Sugden, W. H. Wise, Frederick
Samuel, Samuel (W'dsworth, Putney) Sutherland, Sir William Wood, Hon. Edward F. L. (Ripon)
Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert A. Thomas-Stanford, Charles Wood, Sir H. K. (Woolwich, West)
Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) Worsfold, Dr. T. Cato
Scott, A. M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton) Thorpe, Captain John Henry Worthington-Evans, Rt. Hon. Sir L.
Seddon, J. A. Townley, Maximilian G. Yate, Colonel Sir Charles Edward
Shaw, Hon. Alex. (Kilmarnock) Tryon, Major George Clement Young, Lieut.-Com. E. H. (Norwich)
Shaw, William T. (Forfar) Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull) Younger, Sir George
Shortt, Rt. Hon. E. (N'castle-on-T.) Ward, William Dudley (Southampton)
Smith, Sir Allan M. (Croydon, South) Waring, Major Walter TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Smith, Sir Harold (Warrington) Warner, Sir T. Courtenay T. Colonel Leslie Wilson and Mr.
Stanier, Captain Sir Beville Watson, Captain John Bertrand McCurdy.
NOES.
Barker, G. (Monmouth, Abertillery) Hayward, Major Evan Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)
Barnes, Major H. (Newcastle, E.) Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Widnes) Royce, William Stapleton
Bell, James (Lancaster, Ormskirk) Hirst, G. H. Smith, W. R. (Wellingborough)
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Hodge, Rt. Hon. John Swan, J. E.
Cairns, John Irving, Dan Thomas, Brig.-Gen. Sir O. (Anglesey)
Davies, A. (Lancaster, Clitheroe) Kennedy, Thomas Walsh, Stephen (Lancaster, Ince)
Davies, Evan (Ebbw Vale) Kenworthy, Lieut.-Commander J. M. Waterson, A. E.
Davison, J. E. (Smethwick) Kenyon, Barnet White, Charles F. (Derby, Western)
Edwards, G. (Norfolk, South) Lawson, John J. Wignall, James
Galbraith, Samuel Lunn, William Wilson, W. Tyson (Westhoughton)
Graham, R. (Nelson and Colne) Mills, John Edmund Wintringham, T.
Griffiths, T. (Monmouth, Pontypool) Morgan, Major D. Watts Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.)
Grundy, T. W. Myers, Thomas Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Guest, J. (York, W. R., Hemsworth) O'Grady, Captain James
Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Hartshorn, Vernon Raffan, Peter Wilson Mr. Hogge and Mr. Neil Maclean.

Question put, and agreed to.

Resolutions to be reported To-morrow.

Committee to sit again To-morrow.