§ 4. Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHYasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether the inquiries with a view to identifying the person who shot Mrs. Ryan at her home at Cullen on 23rd December have been completed; whether the two constables arrested for the murder of Mr. J. Whelan at Ballyroan, Abbeyleix, on 27th December, have been tried; and whether the constable arrested 419 for the murder of Mr. Patrick Thompson, of Lisnadar, county Westmeath, at Delvin on 6th October, has been tried?
§ The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND (Mr. Denis Henry)The answer to the first and second parts of the question is in the negative. In regard to the third part, the constable charged with the murder of Mr. Patrick Thompson was tried by court-martial on the 24th ultimo, and acquitted.
§ Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHYWhy has the constable arrested for the murder of Mr. Whelan on 27th December not been tried yet?
§ Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHYAre inquiries as to who shot Mrs. Ryan still proceeding, and when will the Government be able to proceed in the matter?
§ 19. Mr. GALBRAITHasked the Chief Secretary whether he can now state the results of the courts of inquiry into the deaths of J. Hynan at Emly on 21st December, S. O'Brien at Charleville on 1st March, and Thomas Mullen at Clonberne on 2nd March; and whether any arrests have been made?
§ Mr. HENRYThe finding of the court of inquiry in the case of John Hynan was that he was shot by a constable of the Royal Irish Constabulary, who fired in self-defence. The finding in the case of John O'Brien was one of wilful murder by persons unknown. No arrests have yet been made. The finding in the case of Thomas Mullen was that he was shot while attempting to escape.
§ 22. Mr. MacVEAGHasked the Chief Secretary whether he is aware that on 13th February two clergymen in Ballybay, co. Monaghan, the Reverend T. Connolly and the Reverend P. Murphy, were fired at from behind a hedge, three shots being discharged; whether a party of police, who happened to be passing in a motor, rushed behind the hedge and found concealed there a Black and Tan policeman named Cromwell and two civilians named 420 Clark; whether two revolvers were found at the spot where they were arrested; whether Cromwell and the two Clarks were released immediately after being brought to barracks, and, if so, by whose order; whether it is usual to place under open arrest a policeman charged with attempting to murder; whether he has since been court-martialled, and, if so, with what result; and why proceedings against the Clarks were abandoned?
§ Mr. HENRYA very full and searching official inquiry which was held into this matter conclusively showed that the shots fired by the constable were not aimed at or in the direction of the priests, but were fired in the air with the intention of testing the revolver which the constable had recently had repaired. He was detained in custody pending the result of the inquiry and was then released on the ground that there was no evidence on which a criminal charge could be sustained. The two civilians who were in his company at the time of the accident and were both unarmed were released on the same ground.
§ Mr. LYNNCan the right hon. and learned Gentleman say how many Protestants have been murdered in Monaghan?
§ Mr. MacVEAGHIf they were testing revolvers, how is it explained that they were crouching behind a hedge in the operation?
§ Mr. MacVEAGHWere they not captured red-handed by the police, who arrived in a motor-car?
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYAre not revolvers tested before they are issued? Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that the story is altogether incredible?
§ Mr. MacVEAGHIs the court-martial concluded, and, if so, what is the result?
§ Mr. HENRYNo. I have stated that when the matter was investigated they were released on the ground that there was no evidence on which a criminal charge could be sustained.
§ Mr. MacVEAGHIs it not a fact that these men were released within, an hour of their arrest, and, if so, by whose authority?
§ 41. Mr. MacVEAGHasked the Prime Minister whether he has received from Mrs. Maire O'Donovan, widow of the mayor of Limerick, a letter with reference to the murder of her husband by Crown forces, in which she contradicts statements made by the Prime Minister, and asks him to make reparation for the injury he has done by these statements; whether he has personally investigated the facts set out by Mrs. O'Donovan, and especially the declaration by Mrs. O'Callaghan, widow of Alderman O'Callaghan, who was murdered in his own house on the same evening; and whether, if he still doubts the guilt of the Crown forces, he will set up the independent inquiry demanded by both Mrs. O'Donovan and Mrs. O'Callaghan?
§ The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Lloyd George)Yes, Sir. I have received the letter referred to. A public inquiry into this murder has been held, and the relatives of the deceased, including Mrs. O'Callaghan, were invited to attend, and to assist in discovering the murderers, but they refused to do so. If Mrs. O'Callaghan is, as she states, in possession of important evidence, it is open to her, notwithstanding her previous refusal to assist in discovering the murderers of her husband, to forward it to my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary, who, I can assure her, is no less eager than she to discover the persons guilty of this wicked crime, or, if she prefers that the evidence should be investigated in public, I will request the Commander-in-Chief in Ireland to reassemble the Court. In view of the fact, however, which I think is well known to every Member of this House, that no jury in the South of Ireland can be trusted in present circumstances to bring in an impartial verdict, I am not prepared to assent to Mrs. O'Callaghan's request, and withdraw the Order made under R.O.I.E. 81, prohibiting coroner's inquests in the city of Limerick.
§ Mr. MacVEAGHDoes the right hon. Gentleman think an inquiry by Crown 422 forces into charges of murder brought against the Crown forces themselves is an impartial method of investigation?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI have no doubt at all that it would be a most impartial investigation. These courts are very carefully chosen, and as a rule there is a legal representative present. It is our sincere desire to ascertain who committed this murder. There is a conflict of views. I know the hon. Gentleman is of opinion that it was organised by the Crown forces. It is my information—and I have made some inquiries into the subject—that these unfortunate men were regarded as being far too moderate.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI am giving the information which I have, and it is that they were regarded as being too moderate, as declining to carry out the orders of the Irish Republican army, and that that is the reason why they were murdered. There is a conflict of view. We are quite willing that there should be the most complete inquiry into this subject, and that it should be in public.
§ Mr. MacVEAGHIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that his suggestion that these two men were murdered by Sinn Feiners is bitterly repudiated and resented by the widows of these two men, and that they have asked him, as a man of honour, to withdraw that suggestion; and, having regard to the attitude taken by the widows of the murdered men, I ask him whether, in justice to the memory of these men, he will withdraw the suggestion?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI would not like to say anything to hurt the feelings of widowed women—not a word—but I know the difficulties under which they exist at the present moment, and it is not very easy for them to express an opinion.
§ Mr. MacVEAGHThat is a scandalous statement—absolutely scandalous.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI repeat the statement, not for the sake of the hon. Gentleman, but of the people in Ireland—that if there be a desire to have an independent public inquiry, I shall do everything to facilitate it, and I will see that a Court is established, as long as they are prepared to give such evidence before that Court as they have got.
Mr. O'CONNORI think the right hon. Gentleman's offer of an independent public inquiry is a very fair one, but will he see that the inquiry will be in the real sense of the word independent, by having a tribunal which by no means could be regarded as interested in the dispute between the parties? There is a conflict of evidence. I have a strong feeling one way, and the right hon. Gentleman may have opinions the other way, and the relatives of these murdered people have a strong opinion which is rather against the impression suggested by the right hon. Gentleman. Is not the fair way in which to test the evidence to have a really judicial tribunal? There is no necessity for a jury. A County Court Judge [HON. MEMBERS: "Speech!"] The Prime Minister and myself both want to arrive at an agreement in this matter, and I want to suggest a better way of doing it—
§ Mr. SPEAKERThere is only half an hour left for questions.