84. Sir W. BARTONasked the President of the Board of Trade whether his attention has been called to a memorandum issued by Mr. Vernon Clay, in his capacity as chairman of the Dye Users' Association, from which it would appear that the Government has been negotiating with him for an agreement 1122 for the prohibition of foreign dyestuffs unless under licence, and that the said negotiations broke down not on any basis of principle but on the inability to agree as to the composition of the licensing body; and will he say if it may now be inferred that prohibition and licensing are the basis of policy in this regard?
§ Sir P. LLOYD-GREAMEI have received the memorandum to which the hon. Member refers. The Government have on several occasions announced their intention of protecting the British dye industry for a period of years by a system of prohibition of import of foreign dyestuffs except under licence. Discussions as to the best method of carrying out this policy are proceeding with the interests concerned.
Sir W. BARTONIs it the intention, at the same time, to prohibit the importation of textiles in which foreign colours have been used?
§ Sir P. LLOYD-GREAMEI think that my hon. Friend is under a complete misapprehension. The object of this measure is to protect the dye industry; it is not to prohibit the importation of textiles into this country.
Sir W. BARTONBut is it not importation of foreign dyestuffs in another form if they are imported as a part of textile goods?
§ Sir P. LLOYD-GREAMEI really think that there is all the difference as between day and night between importing a dyestuff and importing the finished goods.
§ Mr. LAMBERTIs it the policy of the Government to prevent users of dyes in the textile industry from having access to the best and cheapest dyes possible in the world?
§ Sir P. LLOYD-GREAMEIt is really almost impossible to discuss a broad proposition of that kind by means of question and answer, but, as I think my right hon. Friend knows, all the interests concerned have been consulted in this measure, and they will all be considered when the measure is being introduced.
§ Sir P. LLOYD-GREAMEThe interests of the public are always considered by His Majesty's Government.
Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTTMay I ask whether, if British manufacturers are to be restricted as to the number of dyes which they use, and forced to use more expensive dyes, they are to be subjected without protection to the competition of foreign stuffs which have been dyed abroad, with the advantage of cheaper dyes and a larger selection?
§ Sir P. LLOYD-GREAMEThat subject can be discussed again when the Bill is introduced.
85. Sir W. BARTONasked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that dye users in this country are in very few cases owners and distributors of the cloth in which they work either as dyers or calico printers; whether he is aware that in the vast majority of cases they receive the unfinished cloth and operate upon it to the instructions of merchants in Manchester and elsewhere, who undertake all the risk of obtaining orders abroad, allotting the different parts of the work to the different producers, financing and distributing the goods throughout the world; and whether he will take the opinion of these people as to the effect on trade of any system of licensing that can be devised for part of the raw material of the finished product?
§ Sir P. LLOYD-GREAMEI am aware of the facts stated by the hon. Member. The question of the measure to be taken for the safeguarding of the dye industry have been before the country now for a very considerable time, and all the various interests affected have had full opportunity of giving expression to their views, and they will, of course, have further opportunities when the definite proposals are brought before this House.
Sir W. BARTONIs the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the largest firm of dye users in this country is wholly oposed to licensing and prohibition?
§ Sir P. LLOYD-GREAMENo, Sir, I am not in the least aware of any such proposition. I am, on the contrary, aware that the system of prohibition and licensing has the approval of certainly the vast majority of the users of dye-stuffs. [HON. MEMBERS: "NO!"]
86. Sir W. BARTONasked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that in pre-War days there was a constant flow of novelties in colouring matter from foreign laboratories; and whether these would continue to be submitted to users in this country if it became the law that before purchase they had first to be submitted to a licensing body with a view to analysis to see if they could be produced in this country?
§ Sir P. LLOYD-GREAMEThe answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. The second part appears to be based on assumptions as to the procedure of any licensing authority to be set up, which I cannot accept; and I have no reason to suppose that the introduction of new classes of dyestuffs which cannot be produced in this country would be impeded, even if there was a licensing body controlling the import of dyestuffs.
§ Lieut.-Commander KENWORTHYDo these answers mean that we have given up all hope of Germany paying for the War?
§ Sir P. LLOYD-GREAMENo, Sir; we have not given up all hope of securing the fulfilment of all the pledges which the Government have given.
Lieut.-Colonel MURRAYIs the hon. and gallant Gentleman aware that the prohibition of the import of dyestuffs has not the approval of the people in Scotland who use them?
§ Sir P. LLOYD-GREAMEI have no reason for supposing that the people of Scotland think otherwise, in the matter of His Majesty's Government fulfilling its pledges, than the people of England.