§ 33. Lord H. CECILasked the Prime Minister whether the Government would consent, in respect to reprisals in Ireland, to an inquiry limited to the question whether the policemen and soldiers who have committed acts of violence in reprisal for crime in Ireland have acted in any degree under the authority of superiors and, if so, under whose authority they have acted?
§ 43. Captain WEDGWOOD BENNasked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to the fact that, despite repeated denials on the part of His Majesty's Government, many newspapers persist in alleging that outrages in Ireland are part of the definite and deliberate policy of that Government; and whether such newspapers will be prosecuted forthwith for spreading a false report likely to cause disaffection?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI cannot add anything to previous answers on this subject.
§ Lord H. CECILDoes my right hon. Friend realise that accusations have been freely made, and very widely believed, that Members of the Government and the Commander of the Forces in Ireland have given authorisation for acts of violence which no one can defend, and is it not very desirable, to clear that up, that there should be some form of national inquiry?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThose are the very criticisms which have been discussed in the House a very short time ago. I never heard a topic so frequently discussed in so short a period.
§ Captain BENNWhy does the right hon. Gentleman refuse to prosecute newspapers in this country for sedition when he prosecutes them in Ireland?
§ Mr. CLYNESIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that the questions and answers to which he has referred are in the fullest conflict on points of fact, and will the right hon. Gentleman make all inquiry, so that the truth may be reached?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI do not know what my right hon. Friend means, except that the Sinn Fein story does not quite coincide with the reports which we get from the Royal Irish Constabulary.
§ Mr. DEVLINIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that a number of leading reviews and newspapers in England have deliberately declared that the Government is responsible for the reprisals, and in view of the universal indignation expressed by every paper of every party yesterday, will he appoint some impartial committee of inquiry, even an English committee, to inquire into the matter?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI do not accept my hon. Friend's statement. Certain papers criticise the Government, as newspapers always criticise a Government, but there is a vast difference between that and saying there is universal indignation. My own impression is that the country is perfectly satisfied that we are breaking up this conspiracy.
§ Sir D. MACLEANWill the right hon. Gentleman not be influenced by the fact that, notwithstanding frequent Debates in this House, within the last three days there have been fresh outbreaks in Ireland of the kind referred to—
§ Sir D. MACLEAN—and that these outbreaks have been coupled with definite statements by persons of high authority in the Press that they are linked up with official sanction? Does the right hon. Gentleman not consider the repetition of these charges is sufficient ground for altering his present decision that there should be no inquiry?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI understand that the statement referred to by my right hon. Friend was denied by the office in command of that particular battalion. We accept his statement, and my right 829 hon. Friend does not. I do not see how that is going to be cleared up by any further inquiry or discussion. Under present conditions, I am firmly convinced, from inquiries made, that the men who are suffering in Ireland are the men engaged in a murderous conspiracy.
§ Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHYAnd women too.
§ The PRIME MINISTERThe hon. and gallant Gentleman knows perfectly well that that was a most unfortunate accident, and no one, no decent person, would suggest that it was deliberate. That is one of the unfortunate incidents that always happen in war. [HON. MEMBERS: "In war!"] It is war on their side. It is a rebellion. It happens in every conflict of that kind that innocent people, certainly without any intention on the part of anyone, are hit. That is a totally different matter.
§ Mr. DEVLINThe right hon. Gentleman says that these reprisals are only on people engaged in this conspiracy. Is the right hon. Gentleman aware—he has referred to Debates that have taken place in this House—that the military broke into my office in Dublin, smashed the premises, and destroyed over 1,000 ex-soldiers' letters with which I was dealing in connection with their grievances; and does be assert that I am engaged in this criminal conspiracy?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI am perfectly certain that my hon. Friend is not only not engaged in it, but that there is no one who regrets it more than he does. I am perfectly convinced of that. I should be the last to make that statement. If the hon. Gentleman has facts of that kind, I shall certainly inquire into them.
§ Mr. DEVLINI am much obliged to the right hon. Gentleman. If I bring before him cases of deliberate and even infamous attacks on innocent people, many of whom have no more to do with Sinn Fein than he has, will he inquire into all these cases, or will he appoint a Committee to inquire if he has not the time himself?
§ The PRIME MINISTERAs far as the Committee is concerned, the Government have expressed their opinion that, whilst this operation is going on we cannot 830 hamper the authorities there in putting down conspiracy, which, I am perfectly convinced, the people of Ireland are just as anxious to suppress as we, are, except for the intimidation which is reigning there. With regard to inquiry, if my hon. Friend gives me any particulars, he knows perfectly well that I will inquire, into them.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThere are many questions on the Paper still to be asked.
§ Mr. T. P. O'CONNOR(by Private Notice) asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he would give details of the reprisals carried on in different parts of Ireland during the last three or four days; whether his attention has been called to the following description of Granard by Mr. Hugh Martin, the correspondent of the "Daily News":
I found the town desolate, half deserted, and largely in ruins. Some of the ruins were still smoking. Eight of the largest places of business, together with the Town Hall, had vanished, leaving no trace but piles of rubbish. Six other buildings were badly damaged… Granard had been coolly, scientifically, methodically gutted by men who from first to last remained under some sort of discipline—whether it is true that, for three or four days all business houses and factories, including bakeries, in Tralee, have been closed by the authority of the police; whether many of the poor were thereby placed in serious distress, and whether the trade of the town for the time being was destroyed; how far this ban by the police on the town has been raised; and by whose authority did the police thus hold up the trade and the food of a whole community; how many people have been killed or wounded during the week-end; how many people arrested; and whether there has been another woman victim?I hope the right hon. Gentleman received notice of these questions by the first post this morning.
§ The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Sir H. Greenwood)I got this series of questions at a quarter to one today, and I have spent the interval doing my best to get adequate answers.
§ Mr. O'CONNORDid not the right hon. Gentleman receive the letter, which I certainly wrote last night, by the first post today, on his arrival at the office?
§ Sir H. GREENWOODI got a letter in general terms stating that my hon. Friend was going to ask a private notice question dealing with Tralee and Granard. There are several other questions. At any rate, I am going to do my best to answer them. I regret to say I cannot answer the first question as it is too indefinite. I have read Mr. Hugh Martin's description of the damage done in Granard early on Thursday last following the assassination of Captain Kelliher, a district inspector in Granard, and Sergeant Cooney of the Royal Irish Constabulary, at Ballinalee, which is near Granard. The business premises in Tralee were closed for some days following a number of assassinations of police on Sunday last, but not by order of the police. I understand shops are now open and business is resuming its normal course.
So far as official information to hand goes, there were no policemen murdered during the week-end, but five were wounded in Derry on Saturday night. One soldier was murdered at Youghal on Friday night last. I have no information of any soldier being wounded. One civilian was killed in Cork and two were wounded in other parts of Ireland. I cannot say the number of arrests during the weekend, but there have been, I believe, a considerable number. No official information as to the killing of any woman is to hand. I profoundly regret the newspaper account turns out to be true. There was a fight between a mixed force of police and military and Sinn Feiners at Ardfert and Causeway, near Tralee, on Friday night last, and two Sinn Feiners were arrested. One had a loaded German pistol in his possession. The police report that they estimate six of the attacking Sinn Feiners were killed.
§ Mr. O'CONNORThe right hon. Gentleman may not have heard, or have misunderstood the question, but I understand he makes no comment, either in denial or affirmation, on the account of the state of Granard in the report of Mr. Hugh Martin, and in regard to the second question he denies that shops and places of business in Tralee were closed by order of the police. He does not deny they were closed, and I would like to know on whose orders?
§ Sir H. GREENWOODWith reference to Granard, I am awaiting a report. In 832 reference to Tralee, I myself have wired, "As the shops were closed, admittedly, on whose authority were they closed?" I am awaiting a reply to that wire.
§ Mr. DEVLINSeeing that this havoc and this destruction were carried on last Thursday in Granard, why has the right hon. Gentleman not had a report before now?
§ Sir H. GREENWOODThis destruction occurred early on Thursday morning last in Granard, following the assassination of two officers of the Royal Irish Constabulary, and the whole of the constabulary and the military in the vicinity have been scouring the country ever since. I have wired for a full report on this matter, and it is on the way to me now.
§ Mr. DEVLINMay I ask why, when a whole town is destroyed and great destruction of property takes place, four days elapse before the right hon, Gentleman is acquainted with the facts?
§ Sir H. GREENWOODOn the first point, there is no case of a whole town being destroyed. Secondly, one gets telegraphic reports, which are naturally very short and incomplete, and a full report can only be drawn up by an officer who has the time and the information at his disposal, and it cannot be done at the same time that he is chasing assassins.
§ Lord HUGH CECILWill the right hon. Gentleman lay on the Table the reports in the possession of the Irish Office in relation to these matters, and also the finding of the Military Courts of Inquiry either as to the deaths of persons or acts of violence?
§ Sir H. GREENWOODI must have notice of a series of questions like that. It is against the rule governing reports of disciplinary forces to Ministerial heads, that they should be laid on the Table of the House.
§ Mr. O'CONNORI give notice that I will repeat these questions tomorrow, when I hope the right hon. Gentleman will be in a position to give full information.
§ Mr. DEVLIN(by Private Notice) asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether his attention has been called to the statement of the Central News correspondent in Tralee, that his house was visited during his absence on Saturday 833 by the police, who left a warning that he would be put up against the wall and shot if he transmitted Press messages without first submitting them to the police; whether the same action as is now being taken against the "Freeman's Journal" will be instituted against the representatives of English, French, American and other newspapers that have sent accounts to the world of the events in Ireland; whether in the case of the prosecution of the "Freeman's Journal" the trial will take place in the presence of representatives of the Press?
§ Sir H. GREENWOODI also got this question at a quarter to one. I have asked for a Report as to the allegation made by the Central News correspondent at Tralee. I repeat what I have already said in this House, that, so far as the Irish Government is concerned, it does not, and has never, interfered with the journalists of any country following out their duties, but will do all it can to assist them. As to the other question, I have no control over the English. French, American and other newspapers, except the Irish. The answer to the last part is in the affirmative.
§ Mr. DEVLINWhen a number of most reputable English journalists make statements that the police have intimidated and threatened responsible pressmen of this country, and when that statement is only denied by those largely responsible for these threats, will not some independent inquiry be made, and the public allowed an opportunity itself of forming a judgment as to who is really telling the truth in the matter?
§ Sir H. GREENWOODI do not see the case for an inquiry. I am happy to say that, in the meantime, all the pressmen are carrying on with great diligence.
§ Mr. O'CONNORIs the right hon. Gentleman serious in the reply he gave to the question of my hon. Friend, namely, that a newspaper is to have its case heard in secrecy by the military authority, without any opportunity being given to it and the world of knowing the charges, the evidence, and the sentence; and, if that be so, does he still persist in the statement that Ireland is the freest country for journalists in the world?
§ Sir H. GREENWOODYes, I still persist in that statement, and the answer to my hon. Friend the Member for the 834 Falls Division (Mr. Devlin) is in the affirmative, namely, that the prosecution of the "Freemen's Journal" will take place, in public, in the presence of the representatives of the Press of the world.
§ Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHYMay I ask the Prime Minister whether his account of the state of affairs in Ireland is exactly similar to that made in the German Reichstag during the War?
§ Lieut.-Colonel CROFTWere you there?