HC Deb 07 December 1920 vol 135 cc2046-69

"Those who have a knowledge of this industry realise the enormous amount of research work associated with the manufacture itself. There is a further proposal, and that is that, in order"

This is the sentence in the prospectus: to safeguard this particular industry against the efforts which the great German dye-making firms are certain to make after the War to destroy all we have accomplished, etc."—[OFFICTAT, REPORT, 15th May, 1918, col. 408; Vol. 106.]

If the Government is going to redeem the promise made by the President of the Board of Trade, which each successive Government naturally would wish to do, there is no need for the Government to stretch the argument to the point of saying that because something was put into this prospectus which I say should not have been put in, and which without desiring to make too severe a statement I will say may have misled many people, there is no need for the Government to ask the House now to pass this Bill on the ground that this prospectus contained this particular statement.


Surely the hon. Member is not reading the President of the Board of Trade's speech fairly. It is perfectly plain if you read the context. When he says there is a further proposal, he means a further proposal which the Government has adopted. If you read the speech you will see. If you look at the question and answer with regard to the Licensing Committee, it is perfectly well understood that it is a definite undertaking which has been given.


I am sorry I cannot accept that, because, as a matter of fact, the Government in this Bill is not proposing to carry out the definite contract which is made here. Mr. Runciman asked: Can my right hon. Friend say at this stage what will be the licencing authority and if consumers of dyestuffs will be represented on that authority? He then goes on to give the terms as to the nature of the Committee.


That is a concession to the consumers. I cannot think the hon. Member is complaining of that.


I am not. What I am saying is that this House is being put in the curious position of being asked to pass a piece of legislation on the ground of a prospectus, which I say is a most extraordinary suggestion to make to this House. [HON. MEMBERS: "No."] It is a very extraordinary thing for this Government to be subscribing capital to commercial undertakings at all. It is exactly and absolutely contrary to the industrial history of this country, and if this sort of thing continues, of Governments giving their benediction and blessing to special industries, allowing themselves to be moved by forces of which we do not know, so that they not merely subscribe part of the capital, but by so doing enable special industries to obtain capital from the community, and then this House is asked to pass legislation because the Government is committed to an investment, where is the independence of this House, and where is the independence of British manufacturers? This is an entire departure. This was only done because there was a war. Anything is conceivable in war, and most things may be justified in war; but the manufacturing and commercial community look back to the days when Government Departments did not interfere with them in the management and conduct of their businesses, and they look forward to those days coming again. But when will they come again? There is the President of the Board of Trade with apparently a permanent mandate by reason of his office to use powers which have never been vested in any President of the Board of Trade, which the industrial community have never been asked to assent to, and never would, and to interfere in almost every business in this country. Why should the great manufacturers of Lancashire and Yorkshire, with an export business of nearly £350,000,000, have to go near the Board of Trade to ask how they can trade and where and from whom they shall buy? They are quite big enough and strong enough and able enough to do without all this question of licences. We hoped that after the War there would be an end of licences, but instead of that there is going to be an everlasting increase in the number of industries with which the President of the Board of Trade is going to interfere.

There is only one advantage that I can see in this Bill. Dyes are going to be classed as a key industry, and I am very glad indeed that we know one industry at least that can be called a key industry. There is a list waiting, or in course of preparation, and I should like to ask the President of the Board of Trade how he is going to make up that list. Has he some fundamental principle by which dyes came through all right, and by which he will test every other industry? Think of all the anxious manufacturers who do not know whether they are going to be luck5' enough to get on this list. Dyes have always been our favourite; dyes have come home first past the post in these "Key Industry Stakes"; where are the rest coming from? What are they? How are they going to be determined? What are manufacturers to do who want to know whether they can or cannot get on to the list? Shall they raffle for it? Shall they toss for it? Or is there any sound principle on which the President of the Board of Trade and the Government has a right to interfere in all the industrial and manufacturing businesses of this country, and, if so, what is that principle? You have manufacturers all over the country casting jealous eyes upon those who had enough influence to attract the Government to the dye industry—to attract them to the extent of putting up capital, and of putting their ægis over a trade prospectus. Are there not plenty of manufacturers to-day who, groaning under Excess Profits Duty and various other difficulties, want to know whether the same kindly spirit will ooze out from the Board of Trade as has oozed towards the dye industry? If those other people are to be left out, why? If they are to be included in order to save them, why this delay? It is two years since the President of the Board of Trade of that day was to Bring in a comprehensive Bill dealing with dyes and key industries, and the Bill has not been introduced. All sorts of manufacturers have been misled. There are a lot of people in this country who think that England has been permanently subverted from free trade, and has become a protectionist country, and that it is going to continue a pro tectionist policy. I venture to say that that is a very anticipatory idea. It is not true that England is prepared to abandon free trade, and a lot of manufacturers have been misled because, if this sort of thing is going to be done in the case of various special and carefully-selected industries, vast fortunes will be made by the lucky manufacturers who get themselves on this remarkable list, written we know not how or by whom, or upon what principle. There is not a Member of this House, if this sort of thing goes on, who will not realise the truth of the words of Mr. Arthur Chamberlain, that, if the President of the Board of Trade is to be the arbiter of Government advantage as between one trade and another, you will make more money in ten minutes in the Lobby of the House of Commons than you would in a lifetime in industry. I ask, where or when is it going to stop? Glass is a key industry, as we have been told.

Lieut. - Commander KENWORTHY

And toys.


Yes, toys, and artificial flowers. As the right hon. Gentleman would say when he is talking about national safety, no self-respecting British matron would care to have a bunch of foreign artificial flowers nodding its rebuke from the top of her head. What is the principle upon which this is founded? Does glass include infants' feeding-bottles, on the ground that there is medical testimony that, if the rising generation cannot have them, they might refuse to rise? I could suggest a series of industries which would have a very great claim upon the sentiment and tender heart of the President of the Board of Trade. I want the House, however, to come back to the determination of the question of principle. Where is the national safety provided in this Bill, so that this country will not be caught napping again, as we are told, when the next great war comes? We have just got through one war, a pretty considerable war. Some exuberant, excited leader thought to cheer us in the moments of darkness by saying to us, "Stick to it. See it through. This is a war to end war." Now our preparations are being made for the next war. We are not going to be caught napping in the next war. The next war will be a war to secure the fruits of the war to end war, and it will be succeeded by a war to determine the terms upon which the war to secure the fruits of the war to end war are to be finally disposed of. This is the house that Jack built. This is the way we are going on. So long as the Government pursues the policy that you must live in dread of war, until you base your foreign policy upon a proper calculation of the elimination of old enemies, a fair and liberal calculation of possible enemies and the balancing of your forces according to your foreign policy, then you need Protection and you live in constant fear of war. [HON. MEMBERS: "Divide!"] There are hon. Members who think that the battle for Protection is won, and they call "Divide." They will divide this country one day and find that the majority is against them.

I move about a great deal among manufacturers, and I know that manufacturers are sick of Government interference in any form whatever. I could go through Lancashire and Yorkshire, and in every town I could find an overwhelming predominance of public opinion against this Bill. I have some sympathy for the disappointment of the hon. Member for Chippenham (Mr. G. Terrell). He is a stout, solid, full-blooded, reliable January to December protectionist. He never changes, he never falters. To him a key industry is any industry that needs protecting. What is a key industry? Would the President of the Board of Trade mind telling us in his reply the principle upon which he relied which enabled him to determine the dye industry as a key industry, in order that we may have a little illumination as to what other industries may hope to be sufficiently fortunate to be included? [An HON. MEMBER: "Saving a man's life in battle!"] I am very much obliged for that intervention. There is not a single Member of this House who will not support the Government if the Government will say, "We propose to erect and maintain factories at the direct cost of the Exchequer, and to see to it that in case of possible war we shall not be caught napping, and that we shall have every possible munition of war." Every hon. Member will agree to that; but this Bill goes much further than that. The House heard the speech of the hon. Member for Chippenham, who really represents the majority in this House on this question. He wants every industry protected, and he says: "How long, Mr. President, how long?" The President says: "I will see you in the early part of next year." Then the hon. Member says: "We have been waiting two years." The President replies: "I will see you next year." "Will you promise me that you will meet me next year," asks the hon. Member? "I promise you I will meet you next year," comes the reply. The hon. Member for Chippenham heard so much that he is not here now, he has gone home.


Perhaps he was afraid of your speech.


This Government will call down upon itself the organised opposition and wrath which growing irritation will provide, as the President of the Board of Trade interferes more and more with the normal flow of commerce between country and country. We had hoped that these war measures would have disappeared, that all these licences, all these necessary permits, would have been unnecessary two years after the War. Surely, it is not to be contended, and certainly it is not to be admitted by those of us who are able to give general support to the Government, that because we wish to support proper provision for national safety, we are to sell the free trade pass and agree to this country becoming a full protectionist country. With our present industrial difficulties, if this country does not revert to free trade and if our industries are not allowed to produce as they were before the War on a free trade basis, we shall have brought on ourselves a final calamity which will prevent the industrial community in this country from recovering itself. We are groaning sufficiently under taxation without groaning under the additional unendurable pain of Government interference in private enterprise. Though the President of the Board of Trade is so optimistic that he thought this Bill should go through without opposition, I hope that there will be a Division and that in the Division there will be expressed a sentiment which, if it does not represent the majority here, represents, I can say of my own knowledge, the opinion among commercial and industrial men in this country, that this Bill and all such Government interference ought to be prohibited, so that England may be once more free to trade with all the world, as it has been doing all these years when it made the wealth by which alone it was able to sustain the great burden of the War.

Lieut.-Commander ASTBURY

A great many people seem to have forgotten that there has been a great war and others have refused to learn the lessons which the great War has taught us. I am not going to answer the speech of the hon. Member because he has not dealt with the question before the House. He has simply indulged in a panegyric of Free Trade. I speak as a business man who has nothing to do with Free Trade or Tariff Reform, and as a dye-user who has been engaged in merchanting and using dyes for manufacture for the last 27 years, so that it is not likely that I am going to recommend a Bill which will ruin me or the industry in which I am engaged. If you go back to the year 1914 you will remember that if it had not been for the British Alizerine Company and the Swiss dyes every printing works and every dye works in this country would have been shut up in six months. I can remember during these days merchants and business men coming to me and saying, "This thing shall never occur again. Once this War is over we will see that we will produce our own dyes and never again have to go to a possible belligerent country to purchase our dyes." The Calico Printers' Association has been mentioned. I am a member of the Federation of Calico Printers, of which the Calico Planters' Association is also a member. They have only one vote, in the same way that every other printer has a vote. Last week we had a meeting in Manchester to consider this question, and a resolution was proposed that this Bill should be supported. That resolution was carried by 14 votes to 7. The Calico Printers' Association dissented, and told us that they would fight us over this question; but it is interesting to see what action the Calico Printers' Association took up in 1918.

In 1918 the Federation of Calico Printers sent a deputation to see the late President of the Board of Trade, Sir Albert Stanley, with regard to the future of the dye industry in this country. One of the delegates was the then chairman of the Calico Printers' Association, Sir Lennox Lee. Sir Albert Stanley suggested that there were three possibilities with regard to starting the dye industry in this country—subsidy, tariff, licensing and prohibition. The deputation agreed unanimously that licensing and prohibition must come into existence in this country for ten years after the termination of the War. That memorandum, I expect the President of the Board of Trade has in his office now. The Calico Printers' Association signed that memorandum. What do they say now? They say, "We signed it under pressure." I asked under what pressure, and they could not tell me. I asked whether there was any member who protested against their signing. Not even a letter of protest was sent. Yet, now, the Calico Printers' Association turn round and say they are against this Bill. They do say they are in favour of subsidy, but this country would not stand the subsidising of industry. There is only one way out, and that is licensing and prohibition. A great deal has been said about possible injury to the great textile trade of Lancashire. I should be the last to advocate any policy which had such an effect. Do hon. Members realise what amount of colour is put on the cloth and what percentage of the cost it amounts to? It amounts to between three and five per cent, of the total cost of the finished product. The percentage therefore is practically infinitesimal Before the War we quibbled and argued over ½d or Id. per lb. for dye-stuffs, but we could easily have paid Is. a lb. more and could thus have supported our own industry.

I want to reply to the hon. Member for Oldham (Sir W. Barton). He told us some interesting stories about the merchants, and on that point I am bound to cross swords with him. He told us that the merchant abroad would send the design to this country and say that he wanted a sprig in blue or red or yellow. It is the calico printer who produces the design. We buy our designs from Paris or have our own designers in our offices. We submit those designs to the merchant and the merchant sends them abroad for his customer, and the customer either approves or disapproves. If the customer suggests an alteration there would simply be a tracing on the design suggesting the alteration. As to the colour, the customer might want black for red, yellow for pink, or pink for green, but all these colours are standard colours and every calico printer keeps them in stock with a supply for six months ahead. The hon. Member for Newcastle East (Major Barnes) referred to British Dyes and told the House that they could manufacture 70 to 80 per cent, of the colours that we need in this country. Let me tell him that British Dyes were a rotten concern at the start and are a rotten concern to-day and cannot manufacture 15 per cent, of the colours we need, and I do not know where he is getting his information.


I referred to British Dyestuffs Corporation, Limited.

Lieut.-Commander ASTBURY

That is British Dyes, for short. The place is only fit to scrap and put on the mudheap. Then what did Levinstein's do before the War? Before the War their £10 shares were standing at a shilling. They paid no cumulative interest for eleven years, and in 1918 and 1919 those shilling shares were £180.[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear!"] I know what that cheer means. It means that because Levinstein's have been allowed to profiteer disgustingly in the past that might occur in the future. But the dye user is afforded protection by this Bill. What is that protection? There are to be five dye users, three dye manufacturers, and two members appointed by the Board of Trade.


Two and a Chairman.

Lieut.-Commander ASTBURY

Two, and an independent Chairman appointed by the Board of Trade. Therefore the users will always be able to prevent any profiteering. If I see Levinstein's manufacturing a direct red at 2s. per lb. and I know that that can be manufactured at Is. per lb., and that Germany can supply it at that price, then I will grant a licence to bring it in in order to get it at the proper price. There is ample protection by this Bill. The question of national production and national security has been dealt with. We all hope we may never be embroiled in a big war again, but surely we are not going to be such fools as not to be prepared if we should be. An hon. Member said that he did not see anything in this Bill with regard to the use of dye works in such a contingency, but does he not know that dye works can be used to make explosives and that during the War some firms made picric acid and other preparations. It is only by establishing the dye industry in this country that we can ever get national security and above all national security for the trade. Does the House not realise what is going on in America? We might get into such a position here that we might never be able to procure the dyestuffs we want. They could be kept in America, in Germany, and elsewhere, and we might never be able to get access to them at all. The only hope for the trade in the long run is that we should be able to manufacture our own dyes, and it is simply for that reason that I am speaking. I hope this House will not look at this matter from a Free Trade or a Tariff Reform point of view. It has nothing to do with that question. It is a business question for men who are engaged in the large textile industries. This scheme is approved of by the manufacturers and the users, who are the chief people concerned.


Have you ever heard of any workmen who approve of it?

Lieut.-Commander ASTBURY

I cannot answer for any workmen, but I only know that during the War my workmen were at me continually, asking "How long will this colour last? When shall we be thrown out of work?" There was another meeting held in Manchester last week, at the Memorial Hall, at which all the dye users were represented, and they also carried this resolution, that this Bill should be proceeded with.


Did they carry it unanimously?

Lieut.-Commander ASTBURY

I do not think so.


Is it also the fact that representatives of people who used more than 60 per cent, of imported dyes before the War were against that resolution?

Lieut.-Commander ASTBURY

No, that is absolutely wrong. You take the Calico Printers' Association. They do not own half the machines that are in the Calico Printers' Federation. You take the varnish trade. They were represented at that meeting, and they are in favour of this measure.


What percentage of the dyes used—[Interruption].

Lieut.-Commander ASTBURY

I never like to speak on a question with which I am not conversant. I can only answer for the trade in which I have spent my life. Again referring to the Calico Printers' Association, I am rather inclined to think there is something more behind their opposition to this Bill than genuine opposition. The Calico Printers' Association some years ago made a declaration that they would smash every outside printer in the trade, and I am rather inclined to think that under this Bill they think the smaller printers might be placed on the same lines as their big association. I do not very often speak in this House, but I thought that as a dye user I ought to make my protest. Establishing the dye industry in this country in my opinion is vital to us, for fear that in the future America, Germany, Japan, and other countries might shut us out of the dye industry altogether, and leave us in the same position as we were in in 1914.


There are so many points upon which objection might be raised to this Bill, that we can only take at this stage one or two of them, and perhaps the most important. I do not think any speaker so far has really brought out what is the most cogent objection to legislation of this sort. It is this—and we have already seen the danger even before this Bill was introduced. We have a combination of Government interests with private interests, and that introduces at once suspicion of the bona fides of the people who act on behalf of the Government. That suspicion is not justified in the least, but there is no question whatever that' it exists very largely in the country at present—the suspicion that special interests are favoured by Government Departments. It seems to me that at a time like this, when most violent attacks are being made upon the whole Parliamentary system of this country, it is essential that nothing whatever should be done in the way of legislation that can bring any sort of suspicion upon the Parliamentary system and upon the Government Departments. To my mind, that is by far the most important objection to this Bill, and, even if the whole of our dye industry is to be destroyed, and even if we are going to be put at a very great disadvantage in case of another European war, those disadvantages are as nothing compared with the wrecking of our Parliamentary system and of confidence in Government Departments. What have we seen in connection with this Bill already? We have seen a vast amount of lobbying and invitations for people to go, at the expense of those concerned in this industry, to investigate the dyes, and be entertained at their expense, and all the loathsome system which has grown up in any country where there is any protection in existence is already foreshadowed here.

We have heard a very great deal of the necessity for bolstering-up this industry with a view to it being in a special position when war breaks out again. To my mind there is a vast amount of exaggeration being expressed here to-night on that particular point. The apparatus that is used in the manufacture of dyes is, from an engineering point of view, an extremely simple apparatus. It can be manufactured quickly, and the very roughest port of apparatus can be used in many of these operations. There is no difficulty, speaking as an engineer, in building up that apparatus and duplicating it with the very greatest rapidity in case of emergency. Again, speakers to-night have argued that the Germans, in this particular instance, have an enormous advantage over us, because of the low value of their exchange. Is there any other way of adjusting those exchange values except by allowing the Germans to export their goods? How on earth is the exchange ever to find its level if we are going to prevent the Germans from sending their supplies at a very low price indeed until the exchange has adjusted itself? I know the Government has some idea, by some ingenious Act of Parliament, of correcting the exchanges and getting over this difficulty. I do not think anyone— certainly none of the economists of whom I have inquired—could ever dream that any sort of legislation, or any sort of Government action, could get over this exchange difficulty. The only way to save our industries from the disadvantages through the low value of the exchange in Germany is to get as big imports from Germany as quickly as possible so as to adjust the exchange.

This Bill is based on the extraordinary fallacy which goes by the name of the key industry. In this particular instance of the cotton trade we have the argument used that we must not allow this great industry to be dependent on foreign sources of supply for dyes. Gould any more ridiculous argument be put forward? The whole raw material of the cotton trade is imported from abroad, yet there is not the faintest suggestion on the part of the right hon. Gentleman that we should start growing cotton here. [An HON. MEMBER: "You cannot!"] We could grow cotton if the War Museum were removed from the Crystal Palace and suitable hot-water pipes put in. It is proposed to create an absolutely artificial industry in this country. We know perfectly well that under modern conditions of war one of the most important things in the way of raw material is copra: it forms the bases of many industries and many absolute necessities for this country. If this policy of key industries is to be adopted we must start at once to foster copra growing in this country. It can only be produced from the coconut, and people will therefore have to start growing that here under glass. The whole key industry idea is one of the most ridiculous that the Government have ever put before us. It is in keeping with the whole legislative idea of the Government —the sort of Providence which can build new houses, create new industries, and do any mortal thing, and particularly those things which ordinary commercial people in this country cannot do for themselves. The right hon. Gentleman has told us that these proposals have the support of 90 per cent, of the dye users of this country.


I did not say that I said it had the support of an association representing 90 per cent, of the dye users.


One should remember a distinction which has not so far been drawn in this Debate. There is a very large class of dyes, the majority in point of quantity, which have been procured in this country and can still be; there is also a smaller class, a more important dye, the finer shades and new inventions, which cannot be procured in this country. Of dye users there are two classes. The first, the larger class, consumes large quantities of pure colour dyes; the second, the smaller class, consumes small quantities of the high value finer dyes. The only hope for this country and for our industries is to take the cream of each industry and live on it. As times goes on in every industry —we have seen it in the cotton industry and we are seeing it in the steel and iron trades—the poor quality of stuff will inevitably go to our competitors, because we have no natural resources, and the only hope for this country—with its gigantic population on a small island—is by getting the cream of every industry and using in its development our skill and brains in order to secure an industrial future. There is another point which has not been brought out. Why have the Government brought this Bill in and thrust it forward with every sign of hurry at this particular moment? This is a case where the Government have joined with private interests and put public money in a private concern. It is not the only case. To my mind the reason why we are having this Bill thrust upon us at the present time is not unconnected with the fact that the Government has gone through this process in two other cases, and in both the taxpayers' money has been received and probably lost. In the one case, though a commercial concern, it is lost already, and in the second it is extremely probable that it will be lost very soon. Therefore, the Government comes to us to bolster up this particular industry by means of what is practically prohibition in order that they may go to the taxpayer and say: "Your money has been invested properly and is giving you a good return," whereas if we do not give them this Bill this House and the country at large will know exactly what the Government has done and is doing by putting money into rotten concerns which certainly would never be in the market without prohibition and without licences. They do this instead of cutting down the capital by about 75 per cent., for it does not represent any assets whatever.

Therefore I hope the House before swallowing this Bill presented by the Government with a pistol at their head,

with the Government Whips on, and all sorts of persuasion and force—[An HON. MEMBER: "It will be carried by a large majority"]—for one must remember that during the course of these Debates the average attendance here has been ex tremely small—[HON. MEMBERS: "No, no; not to-day!"]—well, I hope the House will not allow itself to be persuaded to bolster up another failure—the third!—of this Government in entering into negotiations with commercial interests and put ting the taxpayers' money into concerns they have not properly investigated be forehand. [HON. MEMBERS: "Divide!"] There is no need for me to remind the House of the examples to which I refer. [HON. MEMBERS: "Divide!"] We have had in the public Press during the last week sufficient warning to warn off any one except the present Government against the danger of pitting their brains—which are not very good —in commercial matters against the cleverest commercial brains of this country. We saw a few months ago that we were asked to convert in the case of one company a first charge on the whole assets of the business into preference shares. We have now the first report of that concern, which shows a loss of a quarter of a million on the transaction. Where is our money? Where have our securities gone? The shares are practically unsaleable. There is no preference dividend and precious little prospect of any recovery in the future. The second case is that where we were asked to enter into a contract for the sale of the island in the Pacific—a phosphate island—


rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The House divided: Ayes, 280; Noes, 74.

Division No. 386.] AYES. [11.0 p.m.
Adair, Rear-Admiral Thomas B. S. 1 Barnett, Major Ft. W. Brassey, Major H. L. C.
Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. C. Barnston, Major Harry Breese, Major Charles E.
Adkins, Sir William Ryland Dent Beauchamp, Sir Edward Bridgeman, William Clive
Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. Briggs, Harold
Allen, Lieut.-Colonel William James Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Broad, Thomas Tucker
Amery, Lieut.-Col. Leopold C. M. S. Bennett, Thomas Jewell Brown, Captain D. C.
Archer-Shee, Lieut.-Colonel Martin Betterton, Henry B. Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A.
Ashley, Colonel Wilfrid W. Bigland, Alfred Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James
Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. Blades, Capt. Sir George Rowland Burdett-Coutts, William
Atkey, A. R. Blair, Reginald Burgoyne, Lieut.-Colonel A. H.
Bagley, Captain E. Ashton Blake, Sir Francis Douglas Burn, Col. C R. (Devon, Torquay)
Baird, Sir John Lawrence Borwick, Major G. O. Butcher, Sir John George
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Boscawen, Rt. Hon. Sir A. Griffith- Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R.
Balfour, George (Hampstead) Bowyer, Captain G. E. W. Carr, W. Theodore
Banner, Sir John S. Harmood- Boyd-Carpenter, Major A. Carter, R. A. D. (Man., Withlngton)
Casey, T. W. Hewart, Rt. Hon. Sir Gordon Pinkham, Lieut.-Colonel Charles
Cayzer, Major Herbert Robin Hilder, Lieut.-Colonel Frank Pollock, Sir Ernest M.
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Evelyn (Birm., Aston) Hills, Major John Waller Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Birm., W). Hinds, John Prescott, Major W. H.
Chamberlain, N. (Birm., Ladywood) Hoare, Lieut.-Colonel Sir S. J. G. Pretyman, Rt. Hon. Ernest G.
Chllcot, Lieut.-Com. Harry W. Hood, Joseph Purchase, H. G.
Child, Brigadier-General Sir Hill Hope, Sir H.(Stirling & Cl'ckm'nn, w.) Ramsden, G. T.
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. Hope, James F. (Sheffield, Central) Randles, Sir John S.
Churchman, Sir Arthur Hopkins, John W. W. Rankin, Captain James S.
Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. Spender Home, Edgar (Surrey, Guildford) Ratcliffe, Henry Butler
Clough, Robert Home, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead) Raw, Lieutenant-Colonel N.
Cobb, Sir Cyril Howard, Major S. G. Reid, D. D.
Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips Hunter, General Sir A. (Lancaster) Remer, J. R.
Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale Hunter-Weston, Lieut.-Gen. Sir A. G. Remnant, Sir James
Conway, Sir W. Martin Hurd, Percy A. Roberts, Rt. Hon. G. H. (Norwich)
Coote, William (Tyrone, South) Hurst, Lieut.-Colonel Gerald B. Robinson, Sir T. (Lanes., Stretford)
Cory, Sir J. H. (Cardiff, South) Inskip, Thomas Walker H. Rodger, A. K.
Courthope, Major George L. Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S. Rogers, Sir Hallewell
Craig, Captain C. C. (Antrim, South) James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert Roundell, Colonel R. F.
Craig, Colonel Sir J. (Down, Mid) Jephcott, A. R. Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham)
Curzon, Commander Viscount Jodrell, Neville Paul Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Norwood)
Dalzlel, Sir D. (Lambeth, Brixton) Jones, Sir Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvil) Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert A.
Davidson, J. C. C.(Hemel Hempstead) Jones, J. T. (Carmarthen, Llanelly) Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D.
Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. Kellaway, Rt. Hon. Fredk. George Scott, A. M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton)
Davies, Alfred Thomas (Lincoln) Kelley, Major Fred (Rotherham) Scott, Leslie (Liverpool, Exchange)
Davies, Thomas (Cirencester) Kerr-Smiley, Major Peter Kerr Scott, Sir Samuel (St. Marylebone)
Davies, Sir William H. (Bristol, S.) Kidd, James Seager, Sir William
Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) King, Captain Henry Douglas Seddon, J. A.
Dawes, James Arthur Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement Shaw, William T. (Forfar)
Dean, Lieut.-Commander P. T. Knight, Major E. A. (Kidderminster) Shortt, Rt. Hon. E. (N'castle-on-T.)
Dennis, J. W. (Birmingham, Deritend) Lane-Fox, G. R. Simm, M. T.
Denniss, Edmund R. B. (Oldham) Law, Rt. Hon. A. B. (Glasgow, C.) Sprot, Colonel Sir Alexander
Dewhurst, Lieut.-Commander Harry Lewis, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Univ., Wales) Stanier, Captain Sir Seville
Doyle, N. Grattan Lewis, T. A. (Glam., Pontypridd) Stanley, Major Hon. G. (Preston)
Du Pre, Colonel William Baring Lindsay, William Arthur Stanton, Charles B.
Elliot, Capt. Walter E. (Lanark) Lloyd, George Butler Starkey, Captain John R.
Elliott, Lt.-Col. Sir G. (Islington, W.) Lloyd-Greame, Major Sir P. Steel, Major S. Strang
Elveden, Viscount Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green) Stephenson, Lieut.-Colonel H. K.
Eyres-Monsell, Commander B. M. Lorden, John William Stevens, Marshall
Falle, Major Sir Bertram G. Lort-Williams, J. Stewart, Gershom
Farquharson, Major A. C. Loseby, Captain C. E. Strauss, Edward Anthony
Flannery, Sir James Fortescue Lyle, C. E. Leonard Sugden, W. H.
Ford, Patrick Johnston Lynn, R. J. Taylor, J.
Foreman, Henry Mackinder, Sir H. J. (Camlachie) Terrell, Captain R. (Oxford, Henley)
Forrest, Walter McLaren, Hon. H. D. (Leicester) Thomas-Stanford, Charles
Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot M'Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W. Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South)
Fraser, Major Sir Keith Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. Thorpe, Captain John Henry
Frece, Sir Walter de Macquisten, F. A. Tryon, Major George Clement
Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. Magnus, Sir Philip Turton, E. R.
Ganzoni, Captain Francis John C. Malone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.) Vickers, Douglas
Gardiner, James Manville, Edward Waddington, R.
George, Rt. Hon. David Lloyd Marks, Sir George Croydon Walters, Rt. Hon. Sir John Tudor
Gibbs, Colonel George Abraham Matthews, David Ward-Jackson, Major C. L.
Gilbert, James Daniel Mitchell, William Lane Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull)
Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel John Moles, Thomas Ward, William Dudley (Southampton)
Goulding, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward A. Molson, Major John Elsdale Warren, Lieut.-Col, Sir Alfred H.
Grant, James A. Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred M. Watson, Captain John Bertrand
Grayson, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Henry Moore, Major-General Sir Newton J. Wheler, Lieut.-Colonel C. H.
Green, Joseph F. (Leicester, W.) Moreing, Captain Algernon H. White, Lieut.-Col. G. D. (Southport)
Greer, Harry Morison, Rt. Hon. Thomas Brash Whitla, Sir William
Gregory, Holman Morrison, Hugh Wigan, Brig.-Gen. John Tyson
Greig, Colonel James William Munro, Rt. Hon. Robert Williams, Lt.-Com. C. (Tavistock)
Gritten, W. G. Howard Murray, C. D. (Edinburgh) Williams, Lt.-Col. Sir R. (Banbury)
Guest, Major O. (Leic, Loughboro') Nail, Major Joseph Willoughby, Lieut.-Col. Hon. Claud
Gwynne, Rupert S. Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley) Wills, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Gilbert
Hacking, Captain Douglas H. Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) Wilson, Daniel M. (Down, West)
Hallwood, Augustine Norman, Major Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Wilson, Colonel Leslie O. (Reading)
Hall, Captain Douglas Bernard Norris, Colonel Sir Henry G. Wilson-Fox, Henry
Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) Norton-Griffiths, Lieut.-Col. Sir John Winfrey, Sir Richard
Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. (Liv'p'l. W. D'by) O'Neill, Major Hon. Robert W. H Wise, Frederick
Hambro, Captain Angus Valdemar Parker, James Wood, Hon. Edward F. L. (Rlpon)
Hamilton, Major C. G. C. Parkinson, Albert L. (Blackpool) Wood, Sir J. (Stalybridge & Hyde)
Harmsworth, C. B. (Bedford, Luton) Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas Henry Wood, Major S. Hill- (High Peak)
Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) Pearce, Sir William Woolcock, William James U.
Harris, Sir Henry Percy Peel, Col. Hon. S. (Uxbridge, Mddx.) Worsfold, Dr. T. Cato
Henderson, Major V. L. (Tradeston) Pennefather, De Fonblanque Young, W. (Perth & Kinross, Perth)
Hennessy, Major J. R. G Perkins, Walter Frank Younger, Sir George
Henry, Denis S. (Londonderry, S.) Perring, William George
Herbert Dennis (Hertford, Watford) Philippe, Sir Owen C. (Chester, City) TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Pickering, Lieut.-Colonel Emil W Lord E. Talbot and Captain Guest.
Acland, Rt. Hon. F. D. Barnes, Major H. (Newcastle, E.) Bell, James (Lancaster, Ormskirk)
Adamson, Rt. Hon. William Barton, sir William (Oldham) Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W.
Bramsdon, Sir Thomas Holmes, J. Stanley Royds, Lieut.-Colonel Edmund
Briant, Frank Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) j Sexton, James
Bromfield, William Irving, Dan Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) Johnstone, Joseph Sitch, Charles H.
Cairns, John Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) Smith, W. R. (Wellingborough)
Carter, W. (Nottingham, Mansfield) Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) Spencer, George A.
Coote, Colin Reith (Isle of Ely) Kenworthy, Lieut.-Commander J. M. Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby)
Davies, A. (Lancaster, Clitheroe) Kenyon, Barnet Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West)
Entwistlc, Major C. F. Lyle-Samuel, Alexander Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.)
Finney, Samuel Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow)
France, Gerald Ashburner Maclean, Rt. Hn. Sir D. (Midlothian) Walsh, Stephen (Lancaster, Ince)
Galbraith, Samuel Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. White, Charles F. (Derby, Western)
Glanville, Harold James Morgan, Major D. Watts Wignall. James
Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Murray, Dr. D. (Inverness & Ross) Williams, Aneurin (Durham, Consett)
Graham, R. (Nelson and Colne) Murray, John (Leeds, West) Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Stourbridge)
Greenwood, William (Stockport) Myers, Thomas Wilson, W. Tyson (Westhoughton)
Grundy, T. W. Newbould, Alfred Ernest Wintringham, T.
Guest, J. (York, W. R., Hemsworth) Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.)
Hall, F. (York, W. R., Normanton) Raffan, Peter Wilson Young, Lieut.-Com. E. H. (Norwich)
Hartshorn, Vernon Rendall, Athelstan Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Hayday, Arthur Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring)
Hayward, Major Evan Robertson, John TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Widnes) Rose, Frank H. Mr. Hogge and Mr. T. Shaw.
Hirst, G. H. Royce, William Stapleton

Question put accordingly, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

The House divided: Ayes,277; Noes,72.

Division No. 387.] AYES. [11.11 p.m.
Adair, Rear-Admiral Thomas B. S. Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. Spender Guest, Major O. (Leic, Loughboro')
Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. C. Clough, Robert Gwynne, Rupert S.
Adkins, Sir William Ryland Dent Cobb, Sir Cyril Hacking, Captain Douglas H.
Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips Hailwood, Augustine
Allen, Lieut.-Colonel William James Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale Hall, Captain Douglas Bernard
Amery, Lieut.-Col. Leopold C. M. S. Conway, Sir W. Martin Hall, Lieut.-Col. sir F. (Dulwich)
Archer-Slice, Lieut.-Colonel Martin Coote, William (Tyrone, South) Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. (Liv'p'l, W. D'by)
Ashley, Colonel Wilfrid W. Cory, Sir J. H. (Cardiff, South) Hambro, Captain Angus Valdemar
Astbury, Lieut.-Commander F. W. Courthope, Major George L. Hamilton, Major C. G. C.
Atkey, A. R. Craig, Captain C. C. (Antrim, South) Harmsworth, C. B. (Bedford, Luton)
Bagley, Captain E. Ashton Craig, Colonel Sir J. (Down, Mid) Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent)
Baird, Sir John Lawrence Curzon, Commander Viscount Harris, Sir Henry Percy
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Dalziel, Sir D. (Lambeth, Brixton) Henderson, Major V. L. (Tradeston)
Balfour, George (Hampstead) Davidson, J. C.C.(Hemel Hempstead) Hennessy, Major J. R. G.
Banner, Sir John S. Harmood- Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. Henry, Denis S. (Londonderry, S.)
Barnett, Major R. W. Davies, Alfred Thomas (Lincoln) Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford)
Barnston, Major Harry Davies, Thomas (Cirencester) Hewart, Rt. Hon. Sir Gordon
Beauchamp, Sir Edward Davies, Sir William H. (Bristol, S.) Hilder, Lieut.-Colonel Frank
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) Hills, Major John Waller
Benn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Dawes, James Arthur Hoare, Lieut.-Colonel Sir S. J. G.
Bennett, Thomas Jewell Dean, Lleut.-Commander P. T. Hood, Joseph
Betterton, Henry B. Dennis, J. W. (Birmingham, Deritend) Hope, Sir H. (Stirling & CI'ckm'nn,W.)
Bigland, Alfred Denniss, Edmund R. B. (Oldham) Hope, James F. (Sheffield, Central)
Bird, Sir A. (Wolverhampton, West) Dewhurst, Lieut.-Commander Harry Hopkins, John W. W.
Blades, Capt. Sir George Rowland Doyle, N. Grattan Home, Edgar (Surrey, Guildford)
Blair, Reginald Du Pre, Colonel William Baring Horne, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead)
Blake, Sir Francis Douglas Elliot, Capt. Walter E. (Lanark) Howard, Major S. G.
Borwick, Major G. O. Elliott, Lt.-Coi. Sir G. (Islington, W.) Hunter, General Sir A. (Lancaster)
Boscawen, Rt. Hon. Sir A. Griffith- Elveden, Viscount Hunter-Weston, Lieut-Gen. Sir A. G.
Bowyer, Captain G. E. W. Eyres-Monsell, Commander B. M. Hurd, Percy A.
Boyd-Carpenter, Major A. Falle, Major Sir Bertram G. Hurst, Lieut.-Colonel Gerald B.
Brassey, Major H. L. C. Farquharson, Major A. C. Inskip, Thomas Walker H.
Breese, Major Charles E. Flannery, Sir James Fortescue Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S.
Bridgeman, William Clrve Ford, Patrick Johnston James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert
Brown, Captain D. C. Foreman, Henry J Jephcott, A. R.
Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. Forrest, Walter Jodrell, Neville Paul
Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot Jones, Sir Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvil)
Burdett-Coutts, William Fraser, Major Sir Keith Jones, J. T. (Carmarthen, Llanelly)
Burgoyne, Lieut.-Colonel A. H. Frece, Sir Walter de Kellaway, Rt. Hon. Fredk. George
Burn, Col. C. R. (Devon, Torquay) Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E. Kelley, Major Fred (Rotherham)
Butcher, Sir John George Ganzoni, Captain Francis John C. Kerr-Smiley, Major Peter Kerr
Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R. Gardiner, James Kidd, James
Carr, W. Theodore Gibbs. Colonel George Abraham Kino. Captain Henry Douglas
Carter, R. A. D. (Man., Withington) Gilbert, James Daniel Kinioch-Cooke, Sir Clement
Casey, T. W. Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel John Knight, Major E. A. (Kidderminster)
Cayzer, Major Herbert Robin Goulding, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward A. Lane-Fox, G. R.
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Evelyn (Birm., Aston) Grant, James A. Law, Rt. Hon. A. B. (Glasgow, C.)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Birm.,W). Grayson, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Henry Lewis, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Univ., Wales)
Chamberlain, N. (Blrm., Ladywood) Green, Joseph F. (Leicester, W.) Lewis, T. A. (Glam., Pontypridd)
Chilcot, Lieut.-Com. Harry W. Greer, Harry Lindsay, William Arthur
Child, Brigadier-General Sir Hill Gregory, Holman Lloyd. George Butler
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. Greig, Colonel James William Lloyd-Greame, Major Sir P.
Churchman, Sir Arthur Gritten, W. G. Howard Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green)
Lorden, John William Philipps, Sir Owen C. (Chester, City) Stewart, Gershom
Lort-Williams, J. Pickering, Lieut.-Colonel Emil W. Strauss, Edward Anthony
Loseby, Captain C. E. Pinkham, Lieut.-Colonel Charles Sugden, W. H.
Lyle, C. E. Leonard Pollock, Sir Ernest M. Taylor, J.
Lynn, R. J. Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton Terrell, Captain R. (Oxford, Henley)
Mackinder, Sir H. J. (Camlachie) Prescott, Major W. H. Thomas-Stanford, Charles
Maclean, Rt. Hn. Sir D. (Midlothian) Pretyman, Rt. Hon. Ernest G. Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South)
McLaren, Hon. H. D. (Leicester) Purchase, H. G. Thorpe, Captain John Henry
M'Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W. Ramsden, G. T. Tryon, Major George Clement
Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I. Randles, Sir John S. Turton, E. R.
Macquisten, F. A. Rankin, Captain James S. Vickers, Douglas
Magnus, Sir Philip Raw, Lieutenant-Colonel N. Waddington, R.
Malone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.) Reid, D. D. Walters, Rt. Hon. Sir John Tudor
Manville, Edward Remer, J. R. Ward-Jackson, Major C. L.
Marks, Sir George Croydon Remnant, Sir James Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull)
Matthews, David Roberts, Rt. Hon. G. H. (Norwich) Ward, William Dudley (Southampton)
Mitchell, William Lane Robinson, Sir T. (Lanes., Stretford) Warren, Lieut.-Col, Sir Alfred H.
Moles, Thomas Rodger, A. K. Watson, Captain John Bertrand
Molson, Major John Elsdale Rogers, Sir Hallewell Wheler, Lieut.-Colonel C. H.
Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred M. Roundell, Colonel R. F. White, Lieut.-Col. G. D. (Southport)
Moore, Major-General Sir Newton J. Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) Whitla, Sir William
Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C. Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Norwood) Wigan, Brig.-Gen. John Tyson
Moreing, Captain Algernon H Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert A. Williams, Lt.-Com. C. (Tavistock)
Morrison, Hugh Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. Williams, Lt.-Col. Sir R. (Banbury)
Munro, Rt. Hon. Robert Scott, A. M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton) Willoughby, Lieut.-Col. Hon. Claud
Murray, C. D. (Edinburgh) Scott, Leslie (Liverpool Exchange) Wills, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Gilbert
Nall, Major Joseph Scott. Sir Samuel (St. Marylebone) Wilson, Daniel M. (Down, West)
Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley) Seager, Sir William Wilson, Colonel Leslie O. (Reading)
Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter) Seddon, J. A. Wilson-Fox, Henry
Norman, Major Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Shaw, William T. (Forfar) Winfrey, Sir Richard
Norris, Colonel Sir Henry G. Shortt, Rt. Hon. E. (N'castle-on-T.) Wise, Frederick
Norton-Griffiths, Lieut.-Col. Sir John Simm, M. T. Wood, Hon. Edward F. L. (Ripon)
O'Neill, Major Hon. Robert W. H. Sprot, Colonel Sir Alexander Wood, Sir J. (Stalybridge & Hyde)
Parker, James Stanier, Captain Sir Beville Wood, Major S. Hill- (High Peak)
Parkinson, Albert L. (Blackpool) Stanley, Major Hon. G. (Preston) Woolcock, William James U.
Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas Henry Stanton, Charles B. Worsfold, Dr. T. Cato
Pearce, Sir William Starkey, Captain John R. Young, W. (Perth & Kinross, Perth)
Peel, Col. Hn. S. (Uxbridge, Mddx.) Steel, Major S. Strang Younger, Sir George
Pennefather, De Fonblanque Stephenson, Lieut.-Colonel H. K.
Perkins, Walter Frank Stevens, Marshall TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Perring, William George Captain Guest and Lord E. Talbot.
Acland, Rt. Hon. F. D. Hayday, Arthur Robertson, John
Adamson, Rt. Hon. William Hayward, Major Evan Rose, Frank H.
Barnes, Major H. (Newcastle, E.) Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Widnes) Royce, William Stapleton
Barton, Sir William (Oldham) Hinds, John Royds, Lieut.-Colonel Edmund
Bell, James (Lancaster, Ormskirk) Hirst, G. H. Sexton, James
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Holmes, J. Stanley Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Bramsdon, Sir Thomas Hopkinson, A. (Lancaster, Mossley) Sitch, Charles H.
Briant, Frank Irving, Dan Smith, W. R. (Wellingborough)
Bromfield, William Johnstone, Joseph Spencer, George A.
Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) Thomas. Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby)
Cairns, John Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West)
Carter, W. (Nottingham, Mansfield) Kenworthy, Lieut.-Commander J. M. Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.)
Coote, Colin Reith (Isle of Ely) Kenyon, Barnet Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow)
Davies, A (Lancaster, Clitheroe) Lyle-Samuel, Alexander Walsh, Stephen (Lancaster, I nee)
Entwistle, Major C. F. Maclean, Neil (Glasgow, Govan) White, Charles F. (Derby, Western)
Finney, Samuel Maclean, Rt. Hn. Sir D. (Midlothian) Wignall, James
France, Gerald Ashburner Morgan, Major D. Watts Williams, Aneurin (Durham, Consett)
Galbraith, Samuel Murray, Dr. D. (Inverness & Ross) Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Stourbrdge)
Glanville, Harold James Murray, John (Leeds, West) Wilson, W. Tyson (Westhoughton)
Graham, D. M. (Hamilton) Myers, Thomas Wintringham, T.
Graham, R. (Nelson and Colne) Newbould, Alfred Ernest Wood, Major M. M (Aberdeen, C.)
Grundy, T. W. Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Guest, J. (York, W. R., Hemsworth) Raffan, Peter Wilson
Hall. F. (York, W.R., Normanton) Rendall, Athelstan TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Hartshorn, Vernon Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Mr. Hogge and Mr. T. Shaw.

Bill read a Second time.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Bill be committed to a Committee of the Whole House."—[Major Barnes.]

The House divided: Ayes, 68; Noes, 272.

Division No. 388.] AYES. [11.21 p.m.
Acland, Rt. Hon. F. D. Bramsdon, Sir Thomas Davies, A. (Lancaster, Clitheroe)
Adamson, Rt. Hon. William Briant, Frank Entwistie, Major C. F.
Barnes, Major H. (Newcastle, E.) Bromfield, William Finney, Samuel
Barton, Sir William (Oldham) Brown, James (Ayr and Bute) France, Gerald Ashburner
Bell, James (Lancaster, Ormskirk) Cairns, John Galbraith, Samuel
Bowerman, Rt. Hon. Charles W. Carter, W. (Nottingham, Mansfield) Glanville, Harold James
Graham, D. M. (Lanark, Hamilton) Lyle-Samuel, Alexander Smith, W. R. (Wellingborough)
Graham, R. (Nelson and Colne) Maclean, Nell (Glasgow, Govan) Spencer, George A.
Grundy, T. W. Morgan, Major D. Watts Thomas, Rt. Hon. James H. (Derby)
Guest, J. (York, W. R., Hemsworth) Murray, Dr. D. (Inverness & Ross) Thomson, T. (Middlesbrough, West)
Hall, F. (York, W. R. Normanton) Murray, John (Leeds, West) Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton, E.)
Hartshorn, Vernon Myers, Thomas Thorne, W. (West Ham, Plaistow)
Hayday, Arthur Newbould, Alfred Ernest Walsh, Stephen (Lancaster, Ince)
Hayward, Major Evan Parkinson, John Allen (Wigan) White, Charles F. (Derby, Western)
Henderson, Rt. Hon. A. (Widnes) Raffan, Peter Wilson Wignall, James
Hirst, G. H. Rendall, Athelstan Williams, Aneurin (Durham, Consett)
Holmes, J. Stanley Richardson, R. (Houghton-le-Spring) Wilson, W. Tyson (Westhoughton)
Irving, Dan Robertson, John Wintringham, Thomas
Johnstone, Joseph Rose, Frank H. Wood, Major M. M. (Aberdeen, C.)
Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) Royce, William Stapleton Young, Lieut.-Com. E. H. (Norwich)
Jones, J. J. (West Ham, Silvertown) Sexton, James Young, Robert (Lancaster, Newton)
Kenworthy, Lieut.-Commander J. M. Short, Alfred (Wednesbury)
Kenyon, Barnet Sitch, Charles H. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Mr. Hogge and Mr. T. Shaw.
Adair, Rear-Admiral Thomas B. S. Craig, Colonel Sir J. (Down, Mid) Home, Sir R. S. (Glasgow, Hillhead)
Addison, Rt. Hon. Dr. C. Curzon, Commander Viscount Howard, Major S. G.
Adkins, Sir William Ryland Dent Dalziel, Sir D. (Lambeth, Brixton) Hunter, General Sir A. (Lancaster)
Agg-Gardner, Sir James Tynte Davidson, J.C.C.(Hemel Hempstead) Hunter-Weston, Lieut.-Gen. Sir A. G.
Allen, Lieut.-Colonel William James Davidson, Major-General Sir J. H. Hurd, Percy A.
Amery, Lieut.-Col. Leopold C. M. S. Davies, Alfred Thomas (Lincoln) Hurst, Lieut.-Colonel Gerald B.
Archer-Shee, Lieut.-Colonel Martin Davies, Thomas (Cirencester) Inskip, Thomas Walker H.
Ashley, Colonel Wilfrid W. Davies, Sir William H. (Bristol, S.) Jackson, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. F. S.
Astbury, Lieut-Commander F. W. Davison, Sir W. H. (Kensington, S.) James, Lieut.-Colonel Hon. Cuthbert
Atkey, A. R. Dawes, James Arthur Jephcott, A. R.
Bagley, Captain E. Ashton Dean, Lieut.-Commander P. T. Jodrell, Neville Paul
Baird, Sir John Lawrence Dennis, J. W. (Birmingham, Derltend) Jones, Sir Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvil)
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Dewhurst, Lieut.-Commander Harry Jones, J. T. (Carmarthen, Llanelly)
Balfour, George (Hampstead) Doyle, N. Grattan Kellaway, Rt. Hon. Fredk. George
Banner, Sir John S. Harmood- Du Pre, Colonel William Baring Kerr-Smiley, Major Peter Kerr
Barnett, Major R. W. Elliot, Capt. Walter E. (Lanark) Kidd, James
Barnston, Major Harry Elliott, Lt.-Col. Sir G. (Islington, W.) King, Captain Henry Douglas
Bellairs, Commander Carlyon W. Elveden, Viscount Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement
Bonn, Sir A. S. (Plymouth, Drake) Eyres-Monsell, Commander B. M. Knight, Major E. A. (Kidderminster)
Bennett, Thomas Jewell Falle, Major Sir Bertram G. Lane-Fox, G. R.
Betterton, Henry B. Farquharson, Major A. C. Law, Rt. Hon. A. B. (Glasgow, C.)
Bigland, Alfred Flannery, Sir James Fortescue Lewis, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Univ., Wales)
Bird, Sir A. (Wolverhampton, West) Ford, Patrick Johnston Lewis, T. A. (Glam., Pontypridd)
Blades, Capt. Sir George Rowland Foreman, Henry Lindsay, William Arthur
Blair, Reginald Forrest, Walter Lloyd, George Butler
Blake, Sir Francis Douglas Foxcroft, Captain Charles Talbot Lloyd-Greame, Major Sir P.
Borwick, Major G. O. Fraser, Major Sir Keith Locker-Lampson, G. (Wood Green)
Boscawen, Rt. Hon. Sir A. Griffith. Frece, Sir Walter de Lorden, John William
Bowyer, Captain G. E. W. Fremantle, Lieut.-Colonel Francis E Lort-Williams, J.
Boyd-Carpenter, Major A. Ganzoni, Captain Francis John C. Loseby, Captain C. E.
Brassey, Major H. L. C. Gardiner, James Lyle, C. E. Leonard
Breese, Major Charles E. Gibbs, Colonel George Abraham Lynn, R. J.
Bridgeman, William Clive Gilbert, James Daniel Mackinder, Sir H. J. (Camlachie
Briggs, Harold Gilmour, Lieut.-Colonel John McLaren, Hon. H. D. (Leicester)
Broad, Thomas Tucker Grant, James A. M'Lean, Lieut.-Col. Charles W. W.
Brown, Captain D. C. Grayson, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Henry Macpherson, Rt. Hon. James I.
Buckley, Lieut.-Colonel A. Green, Joseph F. (Leicester, W.) Macquisten, F. A.
Bull, Rt. Hon. Sir William James Greer, Harry Malone, Major P. B. (Tottenham, S.)
Burdett-Coutts, William Gregory, Holman Manville, Edward
Burgoyne, Lieut.-Colonel A. H. Greig, Colonel James William Marks, Sir George Croydon
Burn, Col. C. R. (Devon, Torquay) Gritten, W. G. Howard Matthews, David
Butcher, Sir John George Guest, Major O. (Lelc, Loughboro') Mitchell, William Lane
Campion, Lieut.-Colonel W. R. Gwynne, Rupert S. Moles. Thomas
Carr, W. Theodore Hacking, Captain Douglas H. Molson, Major John Elsdale
Carter, R. A. D. (Man., Withington) Hailwood, Augustine Mond, Rt. Hon. Sir Alfred M.
Casey, T. W. Hall, Lieut.-Col. Sir F. (Dulwich) Moore, Major-General Sir Newton J
Cayzer, Major Herbert Robin Hall, Rr-Adml Sir W. (Liv'p'l, W. D'by) Moore-Brabazon, Lieut.-Col. J. T. C.
Cecil, Rt. Hon. Evelyn (Birm., Aston) Hambro, Captain Angus Valdemar Morden, Colonel H. Grant
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A.(Birm., W.) Hamilton, Major C. G. C. Moreing, Captain Algernon H.
Chamberlain, N. (Birm., Ladywood) Harmsworth, C. B. (Bedford, Luton) Morrison, Hugh
Chllcot, Lieut.-Com. Harry W. Harmsworth, Hon. E. C. (Kent) Munro, Rt. Hon. Robert
Child, Brigadier-General Sir Hill Henderson, Major V. L. (Tradeston) Murray, C. D. (Edinburgh)
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. Hennessy, Major J. R. G. Nail, Major Joseph
Churchman, Sir Arthur Henry, Denis S. (Londonderry, S.) Newman, Colonel J. R. P. (Finchley)
Clay, Lieut.-Colonel H. H. Spender Herbert, Dennis (Hertford, Watford) Newman, Sir R. H. S. D. L. (Exeter)
Clough, Robert Hewart, Rt. Hon. Sir Gordon Norman, Major Rt. Hon. Sir Henry
Cobb, Sir Cyril Hilder, Lieut.-Colonel Frank Norris, Colonel Sir Henry G.
Cockerill, Brigadier-General G. K. Hills, Major John Waller Norton-Griffiths, Lieut.-Col. Sir John
Colfox, Major Wm. Phillips Hinds, John O'Neill, Major Hon. Robert W. H.
Colvin, Brig.-General Richard Beale Hoare, Lieut.-Colonel Sir S. J. G. i Parker, James
Conway, Sir W. Martin Hood, Joseph Parkinson, Albert L. (Blackpool)
Coote, Colin Reith (Isle of Ely) Hope, Sir H.(Stirling & Cl'ckm'nn, W.) Parry, Lieut.-Colonel Thomas Henry
Coote, William (Tyrone, South) Hope, James F. (Sheffield, Central) Peel, Col. Hon. S. (Uxbridge, Mddx.)
Cory, Sir J. H. (Cardiff, South) Hopkins, John W. W. Pennefather, De Fonblanque
Courthope, Major George L. Hope Edgar (Surrey, Guildford) Perkins, Walter Frank
Perring, William George Seddon, J. A. Ward, William Dudley (Southampton)
Philipps, Sir Owen C. (Chester, City) Shaw, William T. (Forfar) Warren, Lieut.-Col, Sir Alfred H.
Pickering, Lieut.-Colonel Emil W. Shortt, Rt. Hon. E. (N'castle-on-T.) Watson, Captain John Bertrand
Pinkham. Lieut.-Colonel Charles Simm, M T. Wheler, Lieut.-Colonel C. H.
Pollock, Sir Ernest M. Sprot, Colonel Sir Alexander White, Lieut.-Col. G. D. (Southport)
Pownall, Lieut.-Colonel Assheton Stanier, Captain Sir Beville Whitla, Sir William
Prescott, Major W. H. Stanley, Major Hon. G. (Preston) Wigan, Brig.-General John Tyson
Pretyman, Rt. Hon. Ernest G. Stanton, Charles B. Williams, Lt.-Com. C. (Tavistock)
Purchase, H. G. Starkey, Captain John R. Williams, Lt.-Col. Sir R. (Banbury)
Ramsden, G. T. Steel, Major S. Strang Willoughby, Lieut.-Col. Hon. Claud
Randles, Sir John S. Stephenson, Lieut.-Colonel H. K. Wills, Lieut.-Colonel Sir Gilbert
Rankin, Captain James S. Stevens, Marshall Wilson, Daniel M. (Down, West)
Raw, Lieutenant-Colonel N. Stewart, Gershom Wilson, Colonel Leslie O. (Reading)
Reid, D. D. Strauss, Edward Anthony Wilson-Fox, Henry
Remer, J. R. Sugden, W. H. Winfrey, Sir Richard
Roberts, Rt. Hon. G. H. (Norwich) Taylor, J. Wise, Frederick
Rodger, A. K. Terrell, Captain R. (Oxford, Henley) Wood, Hon. Edward F. L. (Ripon)
Rogers, Sir Hallewell Thomas-Stanford, Charles Wood, Sir J. (Stalybridge & Hyde)
Roundell, Colonel R. F. Thomson, F. C. (Aberdeen, South) Wood, Major S. Hill- (High Peak)
Royds, Lieut.-Colonel Edmund Thorpe, Captain John Henry Woolcock, William James U.
Samuel, A. M. (Surrey, Farnham) Tryon, Major George Clement Worsfold, Dr. T. Cato
Samuel, Rt. Hon. Sir H. (Norwood) Turton, E. R. Young, W. (Perth & Kinross, Perth)
Sanders, Colonel Sir Robert A. Vickers, Douglas Younger, Sir George
Sassoon, Sir Philip Albert Gustave D. Waddington, R.
Scott, A. M. (Glasgow, Bridgeton) Walters, Rt. Hon. Sir John Tudor TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Scott, Sir Samuel (St. Marylebone) Ward-Jackson, Major C. L. Lord E. Talbot and Captain Guest.
Seager, Sir William Ward, Col. L. (Kingston-upon-Hull)

Bill committed to a Standing Committee.