Commons Sitting of 10 August 1914

Preamble
The House met at a Quarter before Three of the clock, Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.
NEW WRIT.
For County of Wicklow (West Division), in the room of Edward Peter O'Kelly, esquire (deceased).—[Captain Donelan.]
TRADE REPORTS (ANNUAL SERIES).
Copies presented of Diplomatic and Consular Reports, Annual Series, Nos. 5365, 5366, 5368–5374, 5377, and 5378 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
UNEMPLOYED WORKMEN ACT, 1905.
Return presented relative thereto [ordered 7th August; Mr. Herbert Lewis]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 444.]
MOTOR OAR ACTS.
Copies presented of Orders and Regulations made by the Local Government Board under the Motor Car Acts [by Act]; to lie upon the table.
HOUSING ACTS, 1890 TO 1909.
Copy presented of Order made by the Local Government Board under the Housing, Town Planning, Etc., Act, 1909, declaring the Rural District Council of Gwyrfai to be in default [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
DESTRUCTIVE INSECTS AND PESTS ACTS, 1877 AND 1907.
Copy presented of the Corky Scab of Potatoes (Scotland) Order, 1914 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
TRADE (FOREIGN COUNTRIES AND BRITISH POSSESSIONS).
Copy presented of Annual Statement of the Trade of the United Kingdom with Foreign Countries and British Possessions for 1913, compared with the four preceding years. Volume II. [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
RAILWAY ACCIDENTS.
Copy presented of Summary of Accidents and Casualties as reported to the Board of Trade by the several Railway Companies in the United Kingdom during the three months ending 31st March, 1914, together with Reports to the Board of Trade by the Inspecting Officers upon certain Accidents which were inquired into [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
SHOPS ACT, 1912.
Copy presented of Order made by the Council of the urban district of Llanrwst, and confirmed by the Secretary of State for the Home Department under the Act [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
COLONIAL REPORTS (ANNUAL).
Copy presented of Report No. 802 (Ceylon Annual Report for 1913) [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.

LONDON (EQUALISATION OF RATES).
Return Ordered "showing, according to the Accounts for the twelve months preceding the 31st day of March, 1914, furnished to the Local Government Board under Section 1 (7) of the London (Equalisation of Rates) Act, 1894—

(1) the amounts paid during the year out of the Equalisation Fund under the Act to the councils of metropolitan boroughs;

(2) the amount of the expenses incurred during the year by the councils to whom such payments were made (a) under the Public Health (London) Act, 1891 (including expenses of scavenging streets); (b) in respect of lighting; and (c) in respect of streets (other than the expenses of scavenging); and

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(3) the amounts expended during the year by the councils out of the sums received by them under the Act

(in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 296, of Session 1913)."—[Mr. Herbert Lewis.]

HOUSE OF COMMONS (VENTILATION).
Report from the Select Committee brought up, and read [Inquiry not completed].
Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 445.]
Minutes of Proceedings to be printed. [No. 445.]

Ordered, That the Standing Orders, as amended, be printed. [No 443.]
EDUCATION (SCOTLAND) BILL.
"To amend the Education (Scotland) Act, 1908." Presented by Mr. BARNES; to be read a second time, Tuesday, 25th August, and to be printed. [Bill 375.]
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.

  Lunacy Act.
  Sir JOHN JARDINEasked the Home Secretary if his attention has been drawn to any cases where an alleged lunatic, not having been personally seen by a magistrate, has been deprived of his right to the intervention of a judicial authority owing to neglect on the part of a manager of a private institution for lunatics to deliver to the patient under his care the notice of right of appeal required by Section 8 of the Lunacy Act; and if he will state what arrangements will be made to prevent such occurrences in future?
  The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. McKenna): One alleged case of this kind has been brought to my notice. Such cases would not in the ordinary course be brought to my notice, as my sanction is not required for a prosecution, or a warning or other step deemed proper by the Board of Control. A few instances have come to the knowledge of the Board, who are contemplating taking steps for rendering
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  such omissions most unlikely and for bringing them, should any occur, to the notice of the Board at once.

  Larchmount Tuberculosis Hospital.
  Colonel BURNasked the President of the Local Government Board whether he has received the Report of the inquiry held recently at Torquay for the purpose of considering the question of establishing a tuberculosis hospital at Larchmount; and, if so, what decision has been arrived at?
  The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. Herbert Lewis): The Report on the Inquiry referred to has been received, and is under consideration, but no decision has yet been arrived at.
  Colonel BURN: Will the right hon. Gentleman postpone giving a definite decision while the war is on?
  The PRESIDENT of the LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. Herbert Samuel): The provision of a hospital for tuberculous persons is a very urgent matter and I do not think it should be unduly postponed.
  Colonel BURN: Does the right hon. Gentleman not think that the interests of Torquay itself, the value of the property there, and the value of Torquay as a health resort are very important things?
  Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: We shall not arrive at any hasty decision, and we shall consider all interests. Wherever it is proposed to place a hospital for tuberculous persons there are sure to be local objections.

  East India (Estimates).
  Mr. EDMUND HARVEYasked whether, in view of the fact that the Indian Estimates cannot be conveniently discussed at the present juncture, an arrangement can be made for them to be discussed at some date in the autumn or for an additional day to be given to Indian affairs at a later date?
  The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for INDIA (Mr. C. Roberts): I am afraid it is impossible to give a definite undertaking at the moment,

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  but I will do my best to arrange for the postponed annual discussion on Indian affairs to be taken as early as practicable.

  National Volunteers (Ireland).
  Mr. FLAVINasked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he is aware that on Sunday, 2nd August, a public parade of the National Volunteers took place at Ballylongford, North Kerry; whether he is aware that Sergeant Brennan, Royal Irish Constabulary, of Ballylongford, not only interfered with the public parade of the National Volunteers, but publicly demanded that the drill instructor, who was armed with a rifle, should surrender the rifle to Sergeant Brennan; whether Sergeant Brennan also endeavoured to take the rifle by force; and whether he will say if Sergeant Brennan was thus acting on instructions from Dublin Castle and in the interests of the peace of the district?
  The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Birrell): I am informed that on the date mentioned a party of the Irish National Volunteers were drilling at Ballylongford when Sergeant Brennan asked the drill instructor whether he had a gun licence for the rifle he was carrying. Sergeant Brennan did not try to take the rifle from the owner, but simply opened and closed the bolt of the rifle while it was in the owner's hands. The sergeant had no instructions to act in the manner described.
  Mr. FLAVIN: Is it not a fact that the sergeant actually attempted to take the rifle from the drill inspector?
  Mr. BIRRELL: That is not so.
  Mr. FLAVIN: It is true.

  Board of Agriculture (Parliamentary Secretary).
  Mr. C. BATHURSTasked the Prime Minister who will reply to questions in this House on behalf of the Board of Agriculture, whether as Parliamentary Secretary or otherwise?
  The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Asquith): The Member for North Buckinghamshire (Sir Harry Verney) has been offered, and has accepted, the post of Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries.

  WAR IN EUROPE.

    AUSTRIA-HUNGARY AND ENGLAND.
    Mr. KINGasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether this country is at war with Austria-Hungary; and whether Austrians or Hungarians in the Dominions of the British Crown are now alien enemies?
    The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. Acland): No declaration of war or act of hostility has, so far as I am aware, yet taken place on either side.

    MESSRS. NOBELS' DYNAMITE WORKS (RECENT EXPLOSION).
    Mr. BARNESasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if his attention has been called to a meeting of the workers of Messrs. Nobels' dynamite works, Ardeer, and to a resolution passed protesting against the finding of His Majesty's Chief Inspector of Explosives casting the blame for the loss of life occasioned by the recent explosion; and will he say if these workers had had full opportunity of putting their view of the case?
    Mr. McKENNA: I have heard nothing of any such meeting or resolution, and I may point out to my hon. Friend that the Report of the Inquiry does not attach blame for the accident or the resulting loss of life to the workmen employed. The Chief Inspector informs me that at the inquiry all the workmen who seemed likely to be able to throw light on the matter were examined.

    FOOD SUPPLIES (WHOLESALE PRICE).
    Mr. HAMERSLEYasked whether, in fixing the retail prices at which food was to be supplied to the public, any corresponding arrangement was made by which the wholesale price of the supplies was regulated to accord; and, if not, how he proposes to ensure a supply to the retailer at a cost to him which will enable him to distribute to the public without loss in the absence of such an arrangement.
    Mr. McKENNA: It must be understood that the price list of articles of food was issued by the Advisory Committee of retail traders, who with patriotic spirit have used their utmost endeavours to assist the Government in keeping down the retail prices of foodstuffs to as low a level as the possibility of supply admits. The Cabinet Committee on Food Supplies have also made arrangements with some of the wholesale dealers who, animated by the same spirit, are assisting in providing supplies at reasonable rates.

    BRITISH GOODS IN GREMAN OR AUSTRIAN SHIPS.
    Sir J. D. REESasked the President of the Board of Trade what is the position of British merchants owning goods contained in German or Austrian ships when such ships put into port, such ports being usually British Possessions, in view of the fact that insurance against loss cannot be effected as underwriters will only deal with cargoes contained in British ships; and whether such British merchants stand to lose their goods in case the ships containing such goods are seized by warships of their own nationality or confiscated in a British port?
    The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the ADMIRALTY (Dr. Macnamara): British goods in an enemy merchant ship cannot be covered by the State Insurance, and it is improbable that any underwriter would take the risk. If the ship puts into a port in a British Possession, or is captured by a British cruiser, the goods are seized with the ship, and the owner would have to prove his title to them in the Prize Court. On good proof being given they would be delivered to him. I cannot undertake to state what may be the procedure of the enemy if he finds British goods in one of his own ships.

    CIVIL SERVICE (TERRITORIAL FORCE).
    Sir HENRY CRAIKasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether the Treasury has come to any decision with regard to the civil pay of members of the Civil
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    Service who are embodied for service in the Territorial Force?
    Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I understand that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister will make a statement to-day which will cover the point raised by the hon. Member.

    EXPORT TRADE (BOTTLED STOUT AND ALE).
    Mr. NEWMANasked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he will consider the position of the export trade in bottled stout and ale which has been prohibited as a foodstuff; whether he is aware that such ales have to be brewed from one to two years before they are fit for export and require further time to mature during the voyage; that the trade in these liquors is entirely with countries outside Europe; that the prohibition of their export will cause many hundreds of hands to be thrown out of employment; and whether he can see his way to relax the prohibition in respect of such bottled stout and ales?
    The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. Robertson): A further Proclamation is being issued to-day stating precisely the descriptions of foodstuffs prohibited from being exported. The hon. Member will see from this that the goods he mentions are not now covered by the prohibition.

    GENERAL MORATORIUM.
    Mr. FIELDasked if, in the matter of the general moratorium, it is intended that the same shall apply to existing ordinary trade contracts for all articles of food made under recent normal conditions; and whether contractors so engaged will be relieved from the fulfilment of their contracts?
    Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: Generally speaking, and subject to the various exceptions which are appended to the Proclamation, the general moratorium would affect any payment which has become due and payable before the 4th day of August last, or which becomes due and payable

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    while the moratorium continues in pursuance of an ordinary trade contract for articles of food made at any time before the 4th day of August last, whether under normal circumstances or not. It will be noticed, of course, that any person who takes advantage of the moratorium will be compelled to pay interest on his debt. The moratorium only affects the date on which it is necessary to pay debts, and does not affect any other contractual obligations.
    Mr. KEIR HARDIE: Will it apply to such domestic debts as repayments by instalments for furniture, sewing machines, rent, etc.?
    Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I have already given a reply to this question, and if the hon. Member will refer to the Debate he will find his question there answered.

    ROYAL INDIAN MARINE.
    Colonel YATEasked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether orders have now been issued for the arming of the vessels of the Royal Indian Marine?
    Mr. CHARLES ROBERTS: The Secretary of State is unable to make any statement on the subject.
    Mr. SPEAKER: I have received a large number of questions in manuscript, and I think the most convenient method of getting through them would be that I should call them, as I have arranged them, in alphabetical order. That will save hon. Members jumping up.

    CIVIL SERVANTS (REGULATIONS).
    Sir RYLAND ADKINS: I beg to ask the Prime Minister a question, of which I have given him private notice, namely, if he can announce what arrangements the Government has made with regard to the salaries of Government servants who have joined the Colours?
    The PRIME MINISTER: I have approved the following Regulations with respect to Civil Servants who have been
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    called up for service in any rank as Royal Naval Reservists, Royal Fleet Reservists, Royal Volunteer Reservists, or as Army Reservists, Special Reservists (other than the Royal Engineer Special Reservists of the Postal and Signal Sections, and Special Telegraph Reserve) or as members of the Territorial Force:—
    (1) Their civil posts will be kept open until their return from naval or military service, and such service will count for civil pension and for increment of civil salary.
    (2) One-half of the civil pay of a married man of any rank will be paid to him or at the discretion of his department direct to his wife or children.
    (3) In addition Army separation allowance will be payable from Army funds to the wife and children of a man serving in the Army.
    (4) No civil pay in addition to Navy or Army pay will be paid to unmarried men.
    The above Regulations will also apply to any civil servant who joins His Majesty's Forces after 4th August, 1914, with the permission of the head of his department. Such permission will not be given if the head of the department in the exercise of his discretion considers that serious detriment to the public service is thereby involved. The above Regulations will also apply to persons holding whole time unestablished and temporary situations provided that their service is not intermittent, but quasi-permanent and regular.
    Sir HENRY CRAIK: Does not the right hon. Gentleman consider it very hard that men in receipt of salaries of £300 or £400 a year should, in addition to incurring danger, incur the heavy pecuniary loss upon themselves and their wives and families which is implied in these payments?
    Mr. CROOKS: Does the right hon. Gentleman's answer include men employed in naval dockyards and Government arsenals?
    The PRIME MINISTER: That question is to be considered. With regard to what the hon. Member opposite (Sir H. Craik) said, I have gone through this matter very

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    carefully, and I think we are dealing, I will not say liberally or generously, but justly with all branches of the Civil Service.
    Mr. SANDERSON: May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether his statement includes members of the Police force who have been called up as Reservists; and whether the matter is being attended to by the Government in the same way as it was attended to during the South African War?
    Mr. McKENNA: An emergency Act was passed dealing with the police officers who had been called up.
    Mr. SANDERSON: Will a similar emergency Act be passed dealing with those officers in this war? [HON. MEMBERS: "It has been done!"]
    Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT: Do the Regulations cover the case to which I referred the other day—the case of persons employed on the Sessions staff of the Houses of Parliament called out?
    The PRIME MINISTER: I should like notice of this question.

    SOLDIERS' AND SAILORS' WIVES (RENT).
    Mr. ASTOR: May I ask the Prime Minister whether steps are being taken to help the wives of soldiers and sailors to pay their rent, and, if so, whether an announcement will be made publicly in order to relieve the anxiety of any who may fear or who may be threatened with eviction?
    The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for WAR (Mr. Tennant): I have received notice that this question is to be raised on the Motion for the Adjournment. It is not easy to have it dealt with at Question Time, and I will make a statement on the Adjournment.
    Dr. MACNAMARA: I can state now all I have to say on the matter. I have made a very careful and detailed survey of the distress likely to arise among the wives and children of sailors of the Royal Navy and Royal Marines, and particularly as regards the wives and families of
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    Reservists called out on mobilisation. These represent the more urgent cases, since the income from civil employment ceased with mobilisation. Each man on mobilisation was entitled to receive a month's pay, but the rapidity of the operation of mobilising probably made it impossible for the man, except in a very few cases, to hand any money direct to his wife. Many, however, since mobilisation have sent remittances or have declared regular monthly allotments. In the cases where the men have received a month's pay in advance for August, these allotments are not payable until the 1st September, but steps have been taken immediately to pay the allotments declared in any case where the Reservists have not actually received the month's pay in mobilisation. Further, I have stated very fully the situation to the Chairman of the Advisory Committee, and made a number of suggestions for meeting urgent cases, not only as regards families living in the neighbourhood of the Naval ports, but families generally distributed throughout the country, and action designed to give immediate assistance in urgent cases upon which representations have been made is now being taken.

    TERRITORIAL FORCE (ASSIGNING PAY TO WIVES).
    Mr. MONTAGUE BARLOW: I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for War whether it is a fact that Territorials from Lancashire and elsewhere on active service can assign out of their pay of 2s. 7d. per day only 1s. 7d. to their wives, and whether he can see his way to relax the rule so that they may assign either the whole or any portion of their pay, if they so desire?
    Mr. TENNANT: Territorial soldiers are allowed to send the whole of their pay to their wives if they so desire, but they must make their own arrangements for remitting it by postal orders or otherwise.
    Mr. BARLOW: That is not the impression among the Territorials. I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman can take steps to make it clear that is so.
    Mr. TENNANT: The hon. Member might take steps to make it clear to his own constituents. [HON. MEMBERS: "No!"] I think that it is a very unusual circumstance that there should be a body of people under such a great delusion.
    Mr. BARLOW: I am afraid that I must ask a supplementary question. The point is not whether Territorials may send money themselves, but whether they can assign it so that the Government can send it for them? I understand most clearly and explicity from Territorial officers in Lancashire that at present the men can only assign 1s. 7d. out of 2s. 7d., and they are very indignant.
    Mr. TENNANT: I think that it is a great mistake to be indignant about a thing on which you are imperfectly informed. They can give the whole of their money. [HON MEMBERS: "Assign it!"] The Government, as the House is well aware, do remit payments from soldiers who are serving abroad, but persons who are serving at Home must make their own arrangements.
    Colonel IVOR PHILIPPS: May I ask whether a soldier may not assign the whole of his pay if he thinks fit; and, if he is not allowed to assign it, whether he may not remit the whole or any part of it free? That, I think, is the arrangement everywhere else.
    Mr. TENNANT: Yes, that is quite true—from the field, if necessary.
    Colonel IVOR PHILIPPS: Free?
    Mr. TENNANT: Yes, free.

    FOODSTUFFS (COMBINES).
    Mr. MONTAGUE BARLOWasked the President of the Board of Trade whether, in view of the strict Regulations as to prices now in force for retail traders and in view of evidence that the big meat combines in Lancashire markets and elsewhere are raising the prices unfairly against the retailers, he will take steps to deal with the combines who so raise prices?
    The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. Runciman): If any instances are brought to our notice in which meat combines or other persons are unreasonably
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    withholding meat or any other foodstuffs, we shall at once put into force the powers we have taken.

    RELIEF OF RESERVISTS' FAMILIES.
    Lord CHARLES BERESFORDasked the Under-Secretary of State for War whether the existing organisations, such as the Soldiers' and Sailors' Families Association, are being used to ensure that the wives and relatives of the Reservists are not in any pecuniary straits owing to the Reserves being called upon for duty, looking to the fact that such organisations have personal knowledge of people affected which should be of great utility to the Bureau lately set up in London?
    Mr. TENNANT: The Soldiers' and Sailors' Families Association, which has many branches throughout the country, and, as the Noble Lord is aware, did admirable work for the wives and families of soldiers and sailors during the South African War, is the principal organisation concerned. Every advantage will certainly be taken of the help that this association and others of a suitable character are able to render in the present emergency, and the local relief committees under the mayors, which are to work in connection with the committee presided over by my right hon. Friend the President of the Local Government Board, have been advised to appoint as members the local representatives of the association. Applicants to the War Office will be referred to the association.
    Lord C. BERESFORD: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware they have not yet been called upon?
    Mr. TENNANT: I am not.

    EXPORTATION OF SALT.
    Mr. BRUNNERasked the President of the Board of Trade whether the prohibition of the export of salt has been withdrawn?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: Another Proclamation was issued this morning dealing with the exportation of food. Salt is not now prohibited as an export from this country, as there is more of it than the country itself can consume.

    MOTORISTS FOR SERVICE ABROAD.
    Mr. BURGOYNEasked whether it is a fact that 12,000 motorists have volunteered for service through the hon. Member for Brentford, 5,000 of this number for service abroad, and, if so, when the War Office intends to decide as to their enrolment and the use to which they will be put?
    Mr. TENNANT: I am informed that no definite number has been stated to the War Office of the motorists desiring to volunteer for service. The matters mentioned in the third and fourth parts of the question are now under consideration, and I am unable to make a statement at present.

    GERMAN PATENTS IN GREAT BRITAIN.
    Sir F. CAWLEYasked the President of the Board of Trade whether he is aware that a large number of men may be thrown out of work through calico printers, dyers, and other trades being unable to get raw material from Germany; whether he is aware that many necessary materials could be manufactured in this country, but the manufacturing processes are protected by patents held by German firms; whether, under the circumstances, licences can be granted to English firms to use these patents during the war, and so prevent workmen being thrown out of employment?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: The Board of Trade have already taken power to deal with cases similar to those mentioned by my hon. Friend. The Board may make Regulations dealing with such things, and the matter is now under our active consideration.

    HOUSING (IRELAND).
    Mr. CLANCYasked the President of the Local Government Board, with reference to the first two Orders on the Paper today, whether the Housing Bill will be extended to Ireland, where the probability of increased unemployment is greater and the housing conditions worse than in Great Britain?
    Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: It would not be possible, within the rules of the Order, to extend this Bill to Ireland, but my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary will today give notice that he will introduce a Bill dealing with Ireland when the House meets after a brief adjournment.

    BRITISH RESIDENTS ABROAD.
    Sir HENRY DALZIELasked the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether he can make any further statement regarding the position of British residents abroad?
    Mr. ACLAND: As I have already announced in the House, telegraphic instructions were sent on Monday last (3rd August) to all His Majesty's representatives in Europe, to make arrangements with their respective Governments for the advance to them of sufficient funds to relieve the temporary necessities of British subjects.
    Satisfactory replies have been received from St. Petersburg, Rome, Vienna, and Brussels. As regards Switzerland, arrangements have been made with the Swiss banks for the advance of ample funds to His Majesty's Minister at Berne, and a separate sum was placed on Saturday, 8th August, to the credit of His Majesty's Consul at Lausanne. Arrangements have also been made through a bank for the advance of funds to His Majesty's Ambassador at Paris. In all these cases assistance must necessarily be confined to the relief of immediate necessities and the provision of means for return to this country. No large sums will be advanced to individuals.
    As regards the return of British subjects to this country, the position is as follows:—
    We learned on Tuesday (4th August), that no more vessels were required to bring away British subjects from Antwerp, and on Wednesday that no British subjects were waiting at Ostend. Boats have been running between the Hook of Holland and Harwich, and the "St. Petersburg," which arrived on Saturday, was not nearly full. From France, there has been a daily service via Boulogne,

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    and that continues. Three boats a week are running between Newhaven and Dieppe, and the boat which arrived on Saturday was only half full, the captain reporting that no more British subjects were waiting to come away. We heard on Saturday that there were several hundred British subjects at St. Malo, but a boat was to call there that day, which has no doubt brought them away. There are four trains daily from Paris to Havre, Dieppe, Boulogne, and Calais. Arrangements are being made for a ship to call at Genoa, which will be able to bring away a very large number of British refugees, including those from Switzerland.
    A statement has been published by His Majesty's Minister at Stockholm that all British subjects in Sweden are, so far as he knows, safe and well. Arrangements have been made for bringing away British subjects from Norway, and the British Consul at Bergen is drawing funds for their immediate relief.
    His Majesty's Ambassadors at Paris and Vienna state that railway facilities for bringing away British subjects will be given as soon as mobilisation permits, but it has not been possible to make any definite arrangement yet. Meanwhile, British subjects cannot be brought home from Switzerland through France. The French authorities have sent instructions to the provinces not to insist upon the production of papers by those who wish to return from any place in France.
    With regard to the possibility of making enquiries about relatives or friends on the Continent, I have to state as follows:
    Written statements sent to the Foreign Office with regard to British subjects in neutral countries will be forwarded to the Consular Office in whose district they are believed to be. These written communications should contain the following particulars:
    Name of person about whom enquiry is made; age; sex; country where believed to be; supposed address; name of enquirer; address of enquirer.
    As a state of war now exists with Germany His Majesty's Diplomatic and Consular Officers in that country can no longer
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    exercise their functions. The United States Government have, however, been good enough to authorise the United States Ambassador and Consuls in Germany to give protection to British subjects so far as international law allows.
    Enquiries with regard to British subjects in Germany should be addressed to the Foreign Office and not to the United States Embassy or Consulates, and they should contain the same information as in the case of enquiries respecting British subjects in neutral countries. These enquiries will be sent to the United States Embassy, who will endeavour to communicate them to their representatives in Germany by the best route available for such action as may be possible.
    I fear that some time must elapse before arrangements can be made for the return of British subjects now in Germany, but we may be assured that everything possible is being done, and will be done, by the representatives of the United States Government. They are already making arrangements for the provision of financial relief. I hope that, thanks to their good offices, though there must inevitably be inconvenience, discomfort and delay, there will be a minimum of actual danger. I repeat once more what I said last week that the absence of news by letter or telegraph need not be a cause of anxiety.
    I hope that copies of this answer will be available in the Vote Office for hon. Members on the Adjournment of the House, for hon. Members to send to their friends, if they will be so kind as to do so.
    Sir H. DALZIEL: Has the attention of the hon. Gentleman been drawn to a letter published by the American Ambassador in Berlin, and to the fact that while the British Government had asked him to provide up to £1,000 for British subjects there, it was found to be absolutely impossible to comply with the request, because he has not got the gold to pay out. Will arrangements be made, as is not impossible, as I happen to know, to arrange credit through the banks?
    Mr. ACLAND: I have been in communication with the German Embassy on that point, and they hope very soon to complete

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    the necessary arrangements for providing the necessary sum for their representatives in Germany.
    Mr. F. HALL: Have arrangements been made for English people in a destitute condition in Holland; and will the hon. Gentleman, in view of the importance of his reply, have it circulated to the post offices?
    Mr. ACLAND: The arrangement in Holland, as in other countries, is that His Majesty's representatives have been authorised to make advances in cases of necessity.

    SALE OF INTOXICATING LIQUORS.
    Mr. DICKINSON: I beg to ask the Home Secretary what powers he and the magistrates possess for reducing the facilities for obtaining intoxicating liquor during the war, either by limiting the hours during which or the places at which such liquor may be obtained, and whether he will see that measures be taken for this purpose?
    Mr. McKENNA: I have no such power. It is a matter for the local justices, who have the power to reduce the hours if they are satisfied that there is any disturbance, or prospect of disturbance, and I have no doubt that they will use their power if occasion should arise.

    FISHING VESSELS.
    Mr. FELL: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether arrangements are being made by the Government for the insurance of vessels employed in the fishing industry?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: Conferences have taken place between some representatives of the fishing industry and the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries and the Board of Trade recently on this subject. We hope shortly to issue a statement.

    VALUATION DEPARTMENT (VOLUNTEERS).
    Mr. F. HALL: I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether
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    notification has been given to the tem-temporary clerks and valuers of the Valuation Department not belonging to the Territorial Army that they may be allowed to leave for the purpose of volunteering for service; whether it is a fact that no undertaking is to be given that they shall be reinstated in their present positions on return from their military service, and if he will give instructions that the terms of service for all temporary clerks engaged to fill the places of those who are doing military service shall be that they will be subject to dismissal on the return of those who are now taking up military duties, in order that those serving shall not be handicapped thereby?
    Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: The Board of Inland Revenue have issued to the superintending valuers a circular stating that members of the temporary staff desiring to volunteer may be allowed to leave the Valuation Office for that purpose. No instructions of the nature indicated in the first part of the question asked by my hon. Friend have been issued, nor has any information to that effect been authorised. All members of the temporary staff who volunteer will, on the termination of their military service, be re-engaged or otherwise provided for.

    PERISHABLE ARTICLES (TRANSPORT FROM KILRUSH).
    Mr. LYNCH: I beg to ask the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) whether it is the case that the railway company and steamship company at Kilrush have objected to forward consignments of eggs and butter destined for consumption in England, and whether he will take measures to facilitate the transport of these perishable articles of food?
    Mr. T. W. RUSSELL (Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture, Ireland): Yes, Sir. As the hon. Member knows, I only received his notice just before the House opened. A good deal of difficulty has arisen in regard to the transit of agricultural produce, but the officers of the Department are dealing with these difficulties, and, according to a telegram

    2255
    received a few minutes ago, things are shaping satisfactorily. I have telegraphed in regard to Kilrush.
    Mr. LYNCH: Will the right hon. Gentleman use his good offices with his colleague, the President of the Board of Trade, to facilitate this transport, if possible?
    Mr. RUSSELL: Yes, Sir.

    RAILWAYS (IRELAND).
    Mr. O'DONNELL: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether any representatives from Ireland sit on the Committee now in control of the railways of this country, and, if not, will he, in the interests of Irish trade, take steps to have Ireland properly represented?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: No, Sir. The Order in Council under the powers of which the Executive Committee have been appointed relates only to the railroads in Great Britain.
    Mr. O'DONNELL: Who are in charge of the Irish railways at the present moment?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: As far as I know, they remain in the same charge now as they were under a fortnight ago.

    HARVESTING (VOLUNTARY SERVICE).
    Mr. NEVILLE: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Agriculture whether, seeing that many civilians, who are unable to serve their country in the fighting line or in positions connected with the war, are anxious to serve their country in the harvest field, wherein there may be a shortage of harvesters, he can inform the House whether there is any machinery at the Board of Agriculture or elsewhere whereby farmers or small holders short of hands can notify such shortage, and where volunteers, who would not in the ordinary course be likely to go to Labour Bureaus, can ascertain where their services would be useful and acceptable, and, if not, whether he can see his way to establish a bureau for that
    2256
    purpose with branches in touch with the county councils of agricultural counties or other agencies for bringing willing workers to the harvest field, or can give any advice to the public on the matter?
    Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: Communications are passing between the Local Government Board and the Board of Agriculture with a view to the establishment of an organisation which will adjust the requirements of the labour market as far as possible, and particularly with regard to the need for labour for harvesting operations. It may be possible to use some unemployed labour from the urban districts to meet the needs of rural districts.
    Mr. NEVILLE: May I refer to the Board of Agriculture anybody who writes to me on the matter?
    Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: Yes, Sir.
    Mr. JAMES HOGGE: What has become of the organisation of the Labour Exchanges in this matter?
    Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: The Labour Exchanges are engaged in the matter, but I think it needs some special steps, because as a rule labour would not be readily transferred from an urban to a rural district.
    Sir COURTENAY WARNER: Will they undertake the removal of horses from places where there are plenty at present to places where there are very few?
    Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: Notice should be given of that question, which does not fall within my Department.

    FOREIGN SUBJECTS IN GREAT BRITAIN (NATURALISATION).
    Mr. KING: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether any announcement can be made to show what steps should be taken by, and what special facilities are being made for foreign subjects in Britain desirous of being forthwith naturalised, and whether any further steps are in contemplation for aliens left stranded in this country, especially for those desiring to leave these shores?
    Mr. McKENNA: Applications for naturalisation are being received from aliens and will be dealt with as expeditiously as the number and the pressure of other work permits. No promise can be given as to the time in which any case can be completed as regards applications from German subjects. As I have already stated the police and Poor Law authorities will do their best for aliens who may be stranded.
    Mr. KING: Are applications from German subjects being considered with the others or not? The right hon. Gentleman did not make that quite clear.
    Mr. McKENNA: I can make no promise as to the naturalisation of Germans.

    HOSPITAL SHIPS (FISHGUARD AND ROSSLARE ROUTE).
    Mr. O'DONNELL: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether it is a fact that all the boats in the Rosslare route have been taken by the Admiralty for hospital service for an indefinite period; whether Munster, which is served by this route, supplies the greater part of the butter, bacon, and egg supply to this country, which it will be impossible to maintain if this route is closed; and will he undertake, in view of the importance to both countries of this question, to allow the railway companies to establish at least one service per day each way?
    Dr. MACNAMARA: It is the intention of the Admiralty to take up these three steamers for hospital purposes. I think my hon. Friend must be under some misapprehension as to the effect of the removal of these boats upon the trade of Munster, as no less than seventy-eight boats belonging to companies trading between Ireland and ports in Great Britain still remain at the disposition of their owners.
    Mr. FLAVIN: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this is the only fast through service from several counties of Munster bringing food supplies into different parts of this country, and can he see his way to give a service of one boat each way daily?
    Dr. MACNAMARA: We do not want to dislocate the service with the South of Ireland, which is just as important on this side as it is to the South of Ireland, but military and naval considerations must prevail. The hon. Member asked whether we could give one boat each way daily. I will give that question careful consideration without giving any undertaking.
    Mr. FLAVIN: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he can make any statement about the curtailment of food supplies for South Ireland owing to the stoppage of the Fishguard and Rosslare service?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: I have been in communication with the English railways on the subject, and they assure me that the only interruptions were due to the fact that some of these vessels were necessary for the conveyance of troops to and from Ireland, but arrangements have now been made to release certain of these vessels, and this will enable a regular daily service to be run in each direction between Fishguard and Rosslare?
    Mr. FLAVIN: May we take that as an assurance that we shall have a sailing at least one way each day from the South of Ireland?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: The railway companies on this side will do their best, of course, to deal with Irish traffic, but military and naval considerations must have their first attention.

    UNEMPLOYMENT.
    Mr. OUTHWAITE: I beg to ask the Prime Minister if, in view of the state of unemployment that exists among manual labourers, which is likely to increase as the war continues and to remain after the cessation of hostilities, he will take immediate steps to carry into effect the Report of the Royal Commission on the Canals and Inland Navigations of the United Kingdom and set up the Waterways Board therein recommended, as furnishing the opportunity for the employment of a large number of men on work of permanent value to the community, and will bear in mind that many municipalities

    2259
    have expressed their willingness to bear in part the cost that would be entailed by carrying out the recommendations of the Commission?
    The PRIME MINISTER: The Government will give my hon. Friend's suggestion careful consideration.

    EX-SOLDIERS (GUARANTEE OF RENT).
    Mr. STARKEY: I beg to ask whether, as many old soldiers anxious to offer their services are deterred from doing so because their homes might be broken up in their absence, owing to non-payment of rent, the Government will under these circumstances guarantee the rent, wholly or partly, in cases approved by the local authorities?
    Mr. TENNANT: I have not received any notice.
    Mr. STARKEY: I sent a letter by post.
    Mr. TENNANT: I will give the hon. Member an answer later.

    CARMEN (PREFERENTIAL EMPLOYMENT).
    Sir STUART SAMUEL: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade if he will endeavour to give preferential employment to carmen in cases where the horses they drive have been commandeered?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: I cannot give any promise of a general nature as to the way in which the Labour Exchanges will work, but the Labour Exchange officials have been informed that they must, of course, give the most urgent cases their first consideration.

    TERRITORIAL FORCE (RECRUITING).
    Viscount VALENTIA: I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for War in what way County Territorial Force Associations can give him the assistance the Secretary of State for War asks from them in raising 100,000 men for the Second Army; whether members of Territorial Force Associations, justices of the peace, and retired Army
    2260
    officers can be supplied with attestation forms and authorised to enlist recruits?
    Mr. TENNANT: Recruiting offices in charge of competent recruiting officers exist throughout the country. Indiscriminate recruiting by persons with insufficient experience would only lead to confusion; but it is thought that members of associations and others can usefully exert their local influence so that a steady stream of recruits comes to the recruiting offices. It may be possible at a later date to indicate specific duties. The last two paragraphs of the Noble Lord's question are in addition. I shall have to give this my consideration later on.
    Viscount VALENTIA: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that very often men anxious to enlist are unable to do so?
    Mr. TENNANT: It is true, of course, that there must be long distances for some people who desire to enlist. I will see what can foe done in regard to the suggestion of the Noble Lord for railway warrants.
    Mr. CHAMBERLAIN: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the advisability of posting in each district a notice of where the recruiting officer for that district is to foe found. I know very often in a district the locality of the recruiting office is not known?
    Mr. TENNANT: I will certainly do that. I thought it had already been done.
    Sir H. CARLILE: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some recruiting stations are without any attestation forms? That applies to Hertfordshire.
    Mr. TENNANT: Yes, I heard that. I will have it inquired into.

    PROVISIONING TROOPS.
    Mr. WHELER: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that, owing to large bodies of troops having arrived suddenly in various of the smaller towns in the country, the local provision dealers have had great difficulty in supplying foodstuffs to the regular inhabitants as well as the troops, and

    2261
    whether, in such cases, he will endeavour if possible, to send some supplies with the troops for their special maintenance?
    Mr. TENNANT: In all cases, wherever the military necessities of the case permit, this is being done.

    MEN MARRIED OFF THE STRENGTH.
    Mr. WORTHINGTON EVANS: I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for War whether, pending reconsideration of the Regulations penalising non-commissioned officers and men married off the strength in the Army, he will say that during this war separation allowances will be made and widows' and children's pensions will be granted as if they were married on the strength, seeing that all married men joining from the National Reserve will be so provided for?
    Mr. TENNANT: I have no notice of that question.
    Mr. WORTHINGTON EVANS: I gave notice to the Under-Secretary and the Financial Secretary. I left it myself at the War Office about half-past twelve to-day.
    The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the WAR OFFICE (Mr. Harold Baker): I understood that matter was to be raised on the adjournment.
    Mr. JOHN WARD: Does not the right hon. Gentleman think that is a question that ought really to be answered in the affirmative without any consideration?
    The PRIME MINISTER: The answer is in the affirmative.
    Mr. WORTHINGTON EVANS: That means either on active Service at the front or at home?

    HOSPITAL SUPPLIES (CONTRACTS).
    Mr. WORTHINGTON EVANS: I beg to ask the Financial Secretary of the War Office whether contractors with the War Office for hospital supplies for the year commencing 1st July, 1914, will be allowed to cancel their contracts or revise prices in view of the probable increase in the supplies required and the rise in the wholesale prices, and the ruin which would follow enforcement.
    Mr. H. BAKER: I am afraid I cannot give a general answer to that question. I can assure the hon. Member that if application is made in any particular case I will see that it is considered on its merits.

    WAR RISKS INSURANCE (GLASGOW OFFICE).
    Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT: I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in order to avoid the increased dislocation of business in Glasgow and district by the delay and inconvenience of having to send to London all documents connected with war risk insurance, he will open a branch office in Glasgow for war risk insurance on cargoes?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: The question whether it will be possible to open any branch insurance office or offices outside London is being considered and, of course, if we can do so, Glasgow and Liverpool will be the principal outside centres.

    TERRITORIAL FORCE (KIT ALLOWANCE).
    Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT: I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for War whether in the case of former members of the Territorial Force whose period of service has expired, and who now volunteer to serve with the Territorials during the war, the same allowance for kit will be granted as is granted in the case of present members of the force who are now called out?
    Mr. TENNANT: If the hon. Member refers to officers, they will draw the camp kit allowance of £5 15s, on being gazetted and a special outfit allowance of £20. If he refers to men, their kits are supplied by the Government. If he refers to the embodiment gratuity of £5, this is not issuable to men who enlist now, but is confined to Territorials called out.

    HORSES (AGRICULTURAL DISTRICTS).
    Mr. MACMASTER: I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for War whether it is possible to relax the rigour of the instructions with regard to commandeering

    2263
    horses in the agricultural districts where horses at this season of the year are urgently required?
    Mr. TENNANT: I have already informed the House that under the Order not more than 50 per cent. of the horses may be taken, and in cases where harvesting is proceeding the greatest relaxation is to be used where possible.
    Mr. STANIER: Has the right hon. Gentleman made this widely known throughout the English districts, because, yesterday, farmers were being asked for the whole of their horses?
    Mr. TENNANT: Yes, I can certainly say that was a mistake. In any case which the hon. Member will bring to my notice I will see that reparation is made.
    Mr. RUPERT GWYNNE: What remedy will there be if an undue number of horses are taken?
    Mr. TENNANT: The only thing we can do is to give back the horses, if the circumstances will admit of that being done.

    BRITISH PRESS BUREAU.
    Mr. T. P. O'CONNOR: May I put a question to the Postmaster-General in reference to the many difficulties placed in the way of cabling between this country and the United States on the part of the correspondents of the great American journals? Since I asked a question on this subject on Saturday I may say that I have received representations both from London and from America in reference to this matter, and I am informed that these messages are censored three times in London, three times at Waterville, and three times on the other side of the Atlantic, and that, in consequence, many thousands of pounds which have been spent by the—
    Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. Member can only ask a question at present; I must ask the hon. Member to follow that rule.
    Mr. O'CONNOR: May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that thousands of pounds which have been spent by these American journals in their anxiety to obtain news of the war for the people of America have been wasted in consequence of the difficulties placed in
    2264
    the way, and may I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it would not be desirable in carrying out the work of the Atlantic cable offices that the staffs might be supplemented by the addition of trained journalists?
    The POSTMASTER-GENERAL (Mr. Hobhouse): I have no control at all over the Censor's Department. That is entirely in the hands of the War Office, although the cable officers employed are in the employment of the Post Office itself. Therefore I have no control over the messages for America or other places before they are passed by the Censor. If there has been any delay in the sending of the messages, I will make inquiry, and I shall endeavour to facilitate, as far as I can, the transmission of any message which has passed the Censor.

    LETTERS FOR GERMANY AND AUSTRIA.
    Mr. HOGGE: May I ask the Postmaster-General if there is any use of those who have friends and relatives in Germany sending letters at present?
    Mr. HOBHOUSE: There is no communication, so far as my Department is concerned, with Germany or Austria at the present moment.

    VOLUNTEER FORCES (IRELAND).
    Mr. JOHN REDMOND: May I ask the Prime Minister whether there is any truth in the statement which has appeared in the newspapers that English Territorial regiments are to be sent to Ireland to replace the regiments to be withdrawn?
    The PRIME MINISTER: There is no truth in the statement. In the view of Lord Kitchener, the first necessity of the moment is to recruit the 100,000 men whom he has asked for. He does not doubt, nor do I, that Ireland will contribute her full contingent. Subject to this, Lord Kitchener is anxious to lend any help that his own exigencies permit to the organisation and equipment of the Irish Volunteers. And we have shown our confidence in the willingness and capacity of the Irish to defend their own shores by countermanding the dispatch to Ireland of the English

    2265
    Territorials who, under the normal operation of our mobilisation scheme, would have gone there.
    Mr. JOHN REDMOND: May. I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he can say what steps the Government are going to take in this matter—that is to say, whether he would consider the advisability of the War Office, or some proper person, entering into consultation with the authorities, or the governing body, of the Volunteers in Dublin so as to concert some system whereby advantage might be taken at once of the situation which has arisen?
    The PRIME MINISTER: I know that Lord Kitchener is very anxious to do that. Of course, for the moment, the great difficulty, and the almost insuperable one, is the collecting of officers and non-commissioned officers for the organisation of the 100,000 men for the Second Army which Lord Kitchener proposes to raise, but subject to that and concurrent with it, I think he will do everything in his power by consultation with gentlemen in Ireland to arrange for the full equipment and organisation of the Irish Volunteers.

    RELEASE OF PRISONERS.
    Mr. FREDERICK WHYTE: May I ask the Home Secretary whether he has taken any steps for the release for women suffragists who are now undergoing terms of imprisonment in this country?
    Mr. McKENNA: I have advised His Majesty to remit the remainder of the sentences of all persons now undergoing terms of imprisonment for crimes committed in connection with the suffrage agitation. This course has been taken without solicitation on their part, and without requiring any undertaking from them. I have also advised His Majesty to remit the sentences of all persons convicted of assaults, and other offences, in connection with recent strikes. His Majesty is confident that the prisoners of both classes will respond to the feelings of their countrymen and countrywomen in this time of emergency, and that they may be trusted not to stain the causes they have at heart by any further crime or disorder.
    Mr. DUNDAS WHITE: May I ask the Secretary for Scotland if he can make any similar statement as regards Scotland?
    The SECRETARY for SCOTLAND (Mr. McKinnon Wood): Yes, Sir, I propose to follow the same course as my right hon. Friend.
    Sir J. D. REES: May I ask the Prime Minister whether he will consider the advisability of retaining in this country some 1,400 officers who are not so much required at present in India, to which they are under immediate orders to return?
    The PRIME MINISTER: That does not arise out of the question at all. Lord Kitchener is giving careful attention to all these matters.

ORDERS OF THE DAY.

  HOUSING (No. 2) [MONEY].
  Resolution reported,
  "That it is expedient to authorise the issue out of the Consolidated Fund of such sums, not exceeding in the whole four million pounds, as may be required for the purpose of meeting any expenditure of a capital nature incurred, in pursuance of any Act of the present Session, in connection with Housing; and to authorise the Treasury to borrow money on the security of moneys provided by Parliament or the Consolidated Fund by means of terminable annuities or Exchequer Bonds for the issue of such sums or the repayment thereof; and to provide for the payment out of moneys provided by Parliament of any expenses, not being expenses of a capital nature, incurred in pursuance of any Act of the present Session in connection with Housing."—[Mr. Runciman.]
  Resolution agreed to.

  HOUSING (No. 2) BILL.
  Order for second reading read.
  Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."
  Mr. WALTER LONG: I do not propose to detain the House more than a very short time in reference to this Bill, but it is impossible to let it pass sub silentio for two reasons. One is that we entertain to building in the proposed form many strong objections which have not been removed by the Amendments to be inserted. The other reason is that it is very very difficult to show that the Bill can be called a measure of such urgency as to pass through all its stages in one day. The Minister in charge of this Bill, the President of the Local Government Board, was good enough to consult us on this side, and, as I understand, he was prepared to make it perfectly clear that neither of the Departments concerned are to act themselves unless it is shown after local inquiry properly held after due notice that there is no other method by which the necessary housing accommodation can
  2274
  be provided. This is a condition which is inherent, because, if these Bills, and especially this Bill, are to be successful, it must be because they will receive, not merely the support of the Opposition in this House, but the support of all classes of people in the country afterwards. As far as I and those for whom I speak are concerned, we shall not only offer no opposition to the Bill, but, if it passes, we will do our best to make it a success. But its success is dependent upon the Government taking the necessary wise precautions in administering the powers of the Department, and it is essential that the Government should do this through the local authorities and public utility societies, where possible, and that only in the very last resource, when it is proved after inquiry that neither of these bodies would do the work, should the Government put in force the Clauses under which they have power to carry out these operations. You could not make those Clauses effective if you had not the support of the localities in which it was proposed to erect those cottages.
  We had a definite statement from the right hon. Gentleman, now President of the Board of Trade, when he was President of the Board of Agriculture, that it is the intention of the Department to charge economic rents for these cottages. It is essential that that should be done. Otherwise you will be building cottages out of the public revenue or local rates in localities where the real need for them may be a question of doubt. I have nothing to say as to the urban part. That may be useful in all the conditions, but it is a very grave question whether it will be desirable, if we have distress, as I hope we may not have to a very great degree, to use the agricultural parts of this Bill which are applicable to agricultural districts. But I do not propose to offer any real opposition to the Bill. We have been consulted and, therefore, it is our duty to give our advice when asked and to express our opinions. The responsibility for all these measures of relief must rest with the Government themselves. They have full knowledge. They are in possession of the power. All we can do is to criticise if we think right and, having done that,

  2275
  to offer no opposition which may prevent the spending of money in certain parts of the country where a real need is proved, and where it can be advantageously spent. I am sure that the House will agree that it would be the worst form of procedure to spend money unwisely or to take large sums of money to spend without due care in agricultural or urban districts, and I would suggest that the Government in putting this Bill into force should have regard to the principles to which I have referred. I would ask the right hon. Gentleman in charge of this Bill to look at the Amendment in the name of my Noble Friend the Member for Hitchin, which brings into the first Clause the words "after consultation with the Development Commissioners." The wish of my Noble Friend was that it should be "after consultation with, and approved by, the Development Commissioners."
  Mr. JAMES HOGGE: No.
  Mr. LONG: The hon. Gentleman must not contradict me. All I say is that the suggestion of my Noble Friend was as I have indicated. The Government have, as I understand, informed us that they have accepted my Noble Friend's Amendment. In those circumstances may I point out that they have only accepted part of it, and that the two words, to which he attaches considerable importance, are omitted, and I would like to know whether the right hon. Gentleman could not add them now. May I point out that without the addition of those words they have not really accepted the Amendment of my Noble Friend, which they told us they were doing.
  Mr. CHIOZZA MONEY: I might ask the Government very seriously the question whether it is intended, in determining the economic rent to be paid for these cottages, that such rent should include a payment in satisfaction of the sinking fund? I would suggest that in the interpretation of that term they should not include such a payment in the rent, and should not cause the poor labourer actually to buy the house for the Government—for that is what it really
  2276
  would mean. The point is one of very great importance which I would like to argue at greater length, but for the peculiar circumstances in which we stand.
  Mr. C. BATHURST: May I say that while I welcome this Bill for the agricultural districts, where there will be considerable scope for its operation, I do see some little difficulty in the allocation of the task as between the Local Government Board and the Board of Agriculture. The Board of Agriculture are authorised here to deal with the problem in what are called agricultural districts. It is very hard indeed to say what an agricultural district is. The Local Government Board are dealing with the problem in all urban districts. The worst cases of all are to be found in those districts in which an industrial population live in houses which otherwise would be occupied as houses in a rural district, and I hope that no difficulty between the two Departments is going to prevent the carrying out of what should be done in those cases which require most urgent treatment. I would ask whether, in the exceptional conditions upon which the whole of this Bill depends to a considerable extent, it will be possible for the Government to take in hand those cottages which are being allowed to fall into disrepair owing to their being closed or threatened to be demolished by orders of the local authorities under the Housing Acts? There is a great number of these houses, and if the Government or the approved societies are allowed to take them in hand, and restore them, they can be made perfectly fit for human habitation. I would ask that those words should be strengthened so as to enable the Government to ensure that the houses which would be most valuable should be converted into fit habitations.
  Lord ROBERT CECIL: I agree with my hon. Friend who has just spoken in approving of the principle of this Bill. I hope that the Government will consider the point which he indicated in reference to what I may call suburban districts, of which I take a rather wide view, including small towns and so on within twenty or thirty miles of great centres of population. As far as my experience goes those are the

  2277
  places where the great crowding, owing to lack of good houses, really takes place. I hope that there will not be any confusion in reference to these places, and that they will not, in other words, fall between two stools and be regarded by the Local Government Board as agricultural districts, and by the Board of Agriculture as "elsewhere"—to use the word of the Bill. I hope that the Government may be able to give us some assurance on this point. There are two other matters. My right hon. Friend was kind enough to mention the fact that the Government have agreed to insert the words "after consultation with the Development Commissioners," but I think that they will see that that scarcely meets the point which they were good enough to say that they would meet. The object was to give some guarantee that the Development Commissioners should have a real say in the expenditure of this money.
  Mr. JAMES HOGGE: No.
  4.0 P.M.
  Lord ROBERT CECIL: Hon. Members on this side of the House were asked whether we would be able to do anything to facilitate the passing of this Bill. We then said that we had great objections to the policy of the Bill, and still have, but, in view of the special circumstances of the case, we would do what we could to meet them. One of the points most strongly raised was that there should be control by the Development Commissioners, an impartial body. I do not wish, however, to go into that on the present occasion. We agreed amicably, and I understood this to be a Parliamentary agreement on which we could rely absolutely. That was the agreement I understood, and I do not think the Government will disagree with me on that point. Thereupon we said that we would facilitate the Bill. The words I suggested were, "with the approval of the Development Commissioners," and those were the words used in the Act. If there is any objection to the particular words, then, so far as the substance of the matter is inserted, I should not quarrel with any other form of words. I regard this matter as of very great importance, but I do not want on this occasion to explain the
  2278
  reasons why I think it important. The only other point to which I desire to call attention is as to whether the Government can do anything, though I am afraid they cannot, in the direction of authorising individuals as well as societies. I should have thought that if the Government can authorise a society they could also authorise an individual under similar conditions. However, that is a matter which I cannot enter into at the present moment. It seems to me that if an individual can erect houses on the same terms, and in the same manner as an authorised society, he might receive some public assistance. I should like to hear what the Government have to say on this and other points.
  Sir TUDOR WALTERS: I do not wish to raise any criticisms on this side of the House, for I am very anxious that the Bill should pass. I do hope, however, that the Government will hesitate before handing over the absolute disposal of everything done under this Bill to the Development Commissioners. The Development Commissioners are not represented in Parliament, and it would be absurd to place in their hands a power by which they could veto the action of the Board of Agriculture or the Local Government Board. In other words, a body of outside Commissioners, under the Bill, would have absolute control over two great Government Departments.
  Mr. HAYES FISHER: One of the greatest objections we on this side felt to the Housing Bill was that either the Local Government Board or the Board of Agriculture might become building departments, carrying on large building operations, and taking down into the country their own plans, their own machinery, and their own staff. I understand that the President of the Local Government Board has been kind enough to consult one or two of us to-day, and that he is quite willing to give an assurance that neither of those Departments will turn themselves into building departments until they have held a local inquiry as to the needs and necessities of any particular district for houses, and until they have assured themselves that neither the local authorities nor public utility societies can satisfactorily

  2279
  build houses. That removes one of our greatest objections. There is one other matter, namely, the question of an economic rent. It is quite impossible to dissociate this temporary housing policy from the more permanent Housing Bill, particularly in the matter of rent. It is quite possible that if the Government succeed under this Bill in providing something like 20,000 houses, and then let them at an uneconomic rent, and afterwards they erect 100,000 houses under the permanent Act, it would be difficult for them to charge an economic rent for the 100,000 houses, if, in a period "of distress, they had charged the people occupying the 20,000 houses 1s. 6d. or 2s. a week. The people would say that you could not charge them 4s. or 5s. when you had already charged 1s. 6d. or 2s. You must let at economic rents. The whole of this temporary policy does really dovetail into the more permanent policy, and cannot possibly be dissociated from it, particularly from the point of view of finance.
  In ordinary circumstances the House of Commons would at once ask for four millions of money for building cottages to be let at an economic rent, and the question is at what rate are you likely to be able to borrow the money, because obviously it much depends on the rate at which you can borrow money what rent you can charge for the houses. On the second Reading of the Housing Bill an hon. Member opposite stated that an addition of 1 per cent. would mean another 10d. a week on the actual rent. It does work out very nearly at that figure, and therefore it is of importance that the House of Commons should know at about what rate the Government contemplate borrowing the £4,000,000. At any rate, I should like to have a renewed assurance from the right hon. Gentleman that there is no intention of letting these houses below their economic value, and that through favouritism certain people will not have allocated to them houses at 1s. 6d. or 2s. a week for which the economic rent of 4s. or 5s. a week ought to be charged, so that there may be no fear of any corruption, bribery, or anything of that kind in connection with those houses. Wherever these transactions
  2280
  can be carried out through local authorities or public utility societies those dangers would, to a large extent, almost wholly disappear. They might exist if the Government themselves became departments for not only building but for providing, maintaining, and letting houses to different people.
  The PRESIDENT of the LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. Herbert Samuel): This is a Bill which would in ordinary circumstances give rise to considerable discussion, and we have no reason whatever to complain if hon. Members opposite, in giving their assent to its speedy passage, desire certain assurances on particular points in which they are specially interested. I rise in order to reply to specific questions put to me by right hon. and hon. Gentlemen. Certainly it is not our intention to build houses where we can get the necessary building undertaken either by the local authorities or by public utility societies. So far as the Local Government Board is concerned, we have not a staff available for the actual building of houses; we are not a building department; we have never built a house, and we do not want to build a house, and it is only in the last resort that we should establish an architects' department with a view to conducting the actual building operations. If houses are to be built in Manchester, Cardiff, Sheffield, or wherever it may be, I think it would be very much better that the local authorities should undertake to build them than that the Local Government Board should set architects to work, let contracts, or manage and maintain houses in those cities. Similarly we also give an assurance in regard to the Board of Agriculture, which will not step in unless it is clear that the local authorities or public utility society is not willing. To meet the view of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the Strand Division (Mr. Long) and of the right hon. Member for Fulham (Mr. Hayes Fisher), we are quite ready to take no action, unless, after full local inquiry the Local Government Board or the Board of Agriculture is satisfied that the houses will not be provided by other means than their own direct action. With respect to the rents to be charged it is our

  2281
  intention that the houses and cottages should be let at economic rents. We have made that quite clear when this matter of housing has been discussed. It may be necessary—and I should like to make this clear—to take special measures, in view of the fact that it will be difficult at this juncture to borrow money at the usual rates of interest; and, if the local authorities are to be pressed to undertake this work at once, we shall have to consider whether temporary measures are necessary with regard to the rate of interest. A Conference will take place this evening between the Treasury, the Public Works Loans Commissioners, and the Scottish Office and my Department on the subject with respect to the sinking fund and house rent and land; the house and the land really stand on a different footing. The land is a permanent asset, and, as my right hon. Friend the President of the Board of Agriculture said when introducing his Bill some few weeks ago it is not his intention to charge the tenants with the cost of purchasing the land through the Sinking Fund; but the cottages and houses stand on a different footing, and as the Sinking Fund covers a period of sixty years, and as, at the end of that period, many of these houses will have an extremely small remaining value, I should myself have questioned whether it was proper to let them at rents which would not provide for their replacement when they are worn out.
  I will give my attention to that matter. Then there is a further question. The Noble Lord the Member for Hitchin (Lord Robert Cecil) urges strongly that the Development Commissioners should have a voice in this matter. In order to meet the views of the Opposition, the Government have decided that words should be inserted in the Bill dealing with that point. For my own part, I cannot refrain from expressing the opinion that it appears to me that any reference to the Development Commissioners is really quite unnecessary. However, we are passing legislation under circumstances in which general agreement is essential, and, therefore, if the Noble Lord attaches importance to it, and does not accept the words, "after consultation with the Development Commissioners," he may
  2282
  perhaps accept the word "concurrence." [HON. MEMBERS: "No, no!"] If the Noble Lord presses his words, I should find myself in great difficulty in resisting them. As to agricultural districts, they cannot really be defined, and it is a matter which must be left to friendly arrangement between the Board of Agriculture and the Local Government Board. The Board of Agriculture does not want to deal with semi-suburban districts, or with mining towns and villages, although both of these may come under what are technically known as rural districts. These will be matters rather for the Local Government Board, dealing with the local authorities than for the Board of Agriculture, which knows little about the conditions of mining towns. As to the question of the repairs of the houses, we should be empowered under this Bill to buy any cottage out of repair and put it in order. We shall not be empowered, and I think it was not suggested that we should be empowered, nor would it be right for us to do ordinary landlords' repairs for the benefit and profit of the landowner If a house is really out of repair, and if it has practically to be rebuilt, the course under the Bill would be to acquire it and repair it. The whole operation of the Bill is for one year, and the matter is to be subject to review by the House of Commons. It is hard to foresee what the economic condition of the country may be in a few weeks or months time. Our duty as a Government is to take every step within our power to enable us to provide work if a period of severe stress does arise. We may be confronted before long with very heavy tasks and very difficult duties, and I am sure that the House will give us all the legislative means that we require in order to strengthen our hands against the contingency which may face the nation.
  Mr. CHAPLIN: I do not rise to offer the semblance of opposition to this Bill. In the circumstances in which we find ourselves placed to-day, that would be impossible, and I am anxious to avoid even the appearance of anything controversial on this question. At the same time, I am acquainted, perhaps as well as anybody in this House, with the conditions of the agricultural districts, and I desire to guard myself from it being supposed that I view this Bill with approval. There are

  2283
  numerous matters in which I should differ from the right hon. Gentleman, and with which I personally cannot agree. I do not think I am singular in holding the opinion on this side, but for the reasons I have given and because I desire to avoid even the appearance of being engaged in controversy now, I have risen only to say solely that I wish to guard myself against it being supposed that I support this measure in all its details.
  Mr. HOGGE: I hope that my right hon. Friend will not press the point as to inserting words giving the power of concurrence to the Development Commissioners. After all, this Bill is only for an emergency, and to last one year. There is therefore no reason to set up any special machinery. The Development Commissioners are not controlled by this House. They have a large amount of money which they will have to spend in any case to deal with unemployment, and therefore their hands will be fully occupied. If the precedent is created in this Bill allowing the Development Commissioners the power to come in and give their concurrence to any scheme, it would be bound to meet with opposition on this side of the House. I hope the Noble Lord, therefore, will content himself with the words which are inserted in the Bill providing for consultation with the Development Commissioners. I think for a period of twelve months he might consent to leave it that way, and at the end of that time, if he likes, he can fight out the principle with us on this side. I want to assure my right hon. Friend that if ho yields on the question of concurrence a great many on this side will be bound to vote against the Second Reading of the Bill.
  Mr. ELLIS DAVIES: I desire to ask whether under this Bill the local authorities and the Board of Agriculture will be able to acquire land compulsorily other than under the Land Clauses Consolidation Act? I understand that the Bill has one object, namely, to provide work later on if it becomes necessary. In that case, I think it is highly desirable that the local authority should have power to acquire land immediaely.
  Sir A. MARKHAM: May I ask how this money is to be allocated to the different
  2284
  districts? My constituency will want some and so will others. I should like also to ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will reconsider the period of sixty years which is far too long for economic rents.
  Lord ROBERT CECIL: I can only speak again with leave of the House. I see an hon. Member sitting opposite who will bear out every word I say. There came to us hon. Members from the other side who said, we cannot get this Bill at all except with the consent of the Opposition. They asked several of us, and we all agreed that some such provision as the approval of the Development Commissioners was from our point of view necessary for reasons which I could make clear to the House, and which I do not wish to enter upon now. We regard it as an absolutely essential point. They accepted that, and I say that the Government would be false to their pledges if they did not stick to the bargain made in their behalf.
  Mr. PRINGLE: It is very strange if we on this side are to be bound by a hole-and-corner arrangement made on this extremely important point. I can understand the feelings of the Noble Lord in regard to the Development Commissioners, since in a sense he is the parent of that body, and of the proposal that they should be independent of Parliament. Had the Development Commissioners been a body responsible to this House, I should have had no objection, but in the circumstances as they are an independent body responsible to nobody, I decline to give them an absolute veto over all schemes to be undertaken under this Bill. I think that is a thoroughly unconstitutional practice, and one which I am surprised to find so much favoured on the opposite side. I am not only opposed to this on theory, but I have myself had the opportunity of observing certain dealings of the Development Commissioners, and it is in the light of those dealings of the Development Commissioners that I set my face firmly against that proposal. I know that the Noble Lord thinks that this will give security through the Development Commissioners against jobbery. That is not my experience, and I think you have far more chance of jobbery by bringing in an irresponsible body. So long as you have

  2285
  responsibility, you have less chance of jobbery. For those reasons we here offer a persistent and unrelenting opposition.
  Sir F. BANBURY: The hon. Gentleman seems to have failed to realise the position. The position is not whether the Development Commissioners are good or bad, but whether an agreement has been entered into with my Noble Friend—[HON. MEMBERS: "Who by?"]—and with hon. Members opposite. Hon. Members opposite do not seem to understand that if there is no arrangement made this Bill cannot go through. Here we are met in the face of a great catastrophe to do our best to keep the nation in the position in which it was. We are here confronted with national danger, and, under those circumstances, we pass Bills which would be discussed and commented on under the ordinary course, and the only possible thing is to come to private arrangements, and, if such arrangements can be come to, then pass such Bill. If hon. Members persist in objecting, the Bill must be withdrawn. Either keep the arrangement or withdraw the Bill.
  Mr. ROWNTREE: The Noble Lord has mentioned my name, and I want at once to say that I regret that my hon. Friends have pressed this point. I agree with them absolutely in what they have said on the merits of the case, but I think it is only just that the House should know that I consider the Noble Lord and many of his Friends met us extremely fairly in this matter. I am perfectly certain that we have to recognise that we cannot get all that we want as to this point, and if the Bill is going through, some of us have to give away something we desire. The Noble Lord and his Friends have done that on their side, and I hope that we shall be willing to do so also.
  Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: I desire to answer one or two supplementary points, and to deal with this question of the Development Commissioners. With respect to compulsory powers, there are under the Housing Act ample powers to local authorities to obtain land by compulsion. It is not, of course, desirable that a Government Department should be empowered by this Bill, or should endeavour by this Bill, to obtain powers to take land
  2286
  by compulsion, because that would at once make the Bill a controversial one, and its passage would have been impossible. With respect to the allocation of the money amongst various authorities, the course that will be taken will be to invite local authorities to submit schemes, and those schemes will be aided under this Bill according to the amount of distress or unemployment which prevails in their localities. If there is no unemployment the schemes will not be proceeded with, but where the unemployment is acute there preference will be given The question of the period of sixty years hardly arises under this Bill, but is one which affects the housing question generally. With respect to the Development Commissioners, perhaps it is as well that I should say precisely what has occurred.
  Several hon. Members on this side were most anxious that a Bill of this sort should become law. They realised it could not become law without general assent. Before approaching the Government they approached hon. Members opposite in order to ascertain on what terms the Bill could be agreed to. They then came to the Government and assured us if certain terms were agreed to the Bill would be allowed to pass into law, even in this last hour of the Session. The Government, under the circumstances, thought it their duty to accept those conditions, and pass the Bill. Let it be remembered that this Bill, as applying to agricultural districts, was before the House previously in the Bill of my right hon. Friend who was then President of the Board of Agriculture. Clause 1 had to be dropped because it was found to be controversial, and this Bill must be dropped if it is found to be controversial. Consequently, as hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite attach importance to the concurrence of the Development Commissioners, and as it is a choice clearly between meeting their wishes or withdrawing the Bill as a controversial measure, the Government have no alternative, as right hon. Gentlemen opposite press the point, but will have to stand by the arrangement made and either withdraw the Bill or else insert the word "concurrence," as proposed by the Noble Lord.
  Mr. RONALD M'NEILL: Let me say one or two words with regard to the opposition which has been displayed in the last few speeches. Here we have been for the last week, Members on this side of the House, loyally supporting the Government and passing every sort of emergency Bill dealing with the situation that has arisen. In those Bills there have been numerous provisions which undoubtedly at any other time would have met with very severe criticism and opposition from this side. There has not been from first to last a note of opposition or controversy struck from this side of the House. With regard to this particular Bill, as the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Wimbledon has said, in other circumstances hon. Members on this side might have taken strong objection to the Bills. My Noble Friend the Member for Hitchin made an arrangement with the promoters of the Bill and negotiated as to one particular point, on which I express no opinion, which is of decided interest to many who have come to the arrangement. The moment one single small point crops up which hon. Members on the other side are not fully satisfied with they are the first against their own Government and their own Leader to try to promote controversy, and to threaten to divide the House against their own Leaders.
  Question, "That the Bill be now read a second time" put, and agreed to.
  Resolved, "That this House will immediately resolve itself into the Committee on the Bill."
  Bill accordingly considered in Committee.
  [Mr. WHITLEY in the Chair.]

  HOUSING (No. 2) BILL.

    CLAUSE 1.—(Disposal of Land and Buildings Acquired tinder Act)
    (1) The Board of Agriculture and Fisheries in agricultural districts and the Local Government Board elsewhere shall have power during the period of one year from the passing of this Act to acquire, with the consent of the Treasury and after consultation with the Development Commissioners, land and buildings for housing purposes, and, with the consent of the Treasury, shall have power to dispose of any land or buildings so acquired.
    (2) The Board of Agriculture and Fisheries and the Local Government Board respectively shall have power to do all other things which may appear to them necessary or desirable for housing purposes in connection with any land or buildings so acquired, and to make any arrangements for housing purposes with any local authority or authorised society within the meaning of this Act.
    Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: I beg to move, in Sub-section (1), to leave out the words "after consultation with," and insert instead thereof the words "with the concurrence of."
    Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause," put, and negatived.
    An HON. MEMBER: No, no!
    The CHAIRMAN: The hon. Member was too late.
    Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and agreed to.
    Mr. HAYES FISHER: I beg to move, at the end, to add the words "Provided that neither the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries nor the Local Government Board shall, in the exercise of their powers under this Act, in any case themselves build any dwellings unless they are satisfied after holding a public local inquiry that in that case there is insufficient dwelling accommodation for the working classes or that the existing accommodation is unsuitable, and that dwelling accommodation cannot be otherwise satisfactorily provided."
    I do not think the local inquiry need take more than a day or two, so that there would not be any delay.
    Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and agreed to.
    Clause, as amended, added to the Bill.

    CLAUSE 3.—(Interpretation, Application and Short Title.)
    (I) In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires,—
    The expression "housing purposes" means the provision, maintenance, and management of dwellings and gardens and other works or buildings for or for the convenience of persons belonging to the working classes; and

    2289
    The expression "local authority" means the local authority for the purposes of Part III. of the Housing of the Working Classes Act, 1890; and
    The expression "authorised society" means any society, company, or body of persons approved by the Treasury, whose objects include the erection, improvement, or management of dwellings for working classes, which does not trade for profit, or whose constitution forbids the payment of any interest or dividend at a rate exceeding five per cent. per annum.
    (2) In the application of this Act to Scotland the Local Government Board for Scotland shall be substituted for the Local Government Board, and the Board of Agriculture for Scotland shall be substituted for the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries.
    (3) This Act shall not apply to Ireland.
    (4) This Act may be cited as the Housing (No. 2) Act, 1914.
    Mr. C. BATHURST: I beg to move, in Sub-section (1), after the word "maintenance" to insert the word "improvement."
    The word "improvement" is well known to the law in this connection. The object of the Amendment is to enable the two authorities or either of them to spend money upon improving cottages and so rendering them fit for habitation. This will enable use to be made of some of the houses which are closed or likely to be closed.
    Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: We will accept that Amendment.
    Question, "That the word 'improvement' be there inserted" put, and agreed to.
    Clause, as amended, added to the Bill.
    Bill reported with Amendments; as amended, considered; read the third time, and passed.

  CONSTABULARY AND POLICE (IRELAND)— [MONEY].
  Resolution reported,
  "That it is expedient to authorise further provision out of moneys provided by Parliament for the pay of
  2290
  members of the Royal Irish Constabulary and Dublin Metropolitan Police, and for pensions, allowances, and gratuities to members of those forces, their widows, and children, in pursuance of any Act of the present Session to amend the Law relating to the pay and pensions of the Royal Irish Constabulary and Dublin Metropolitan Police."—[Mr. Gulland.]
  Resolution agreed to.

  CONSTABULARY AND POLICE (IRELAND)— [MONEY].

    CONSTABULARY AND POLICE (IRELAND) BILL.
    Considered in Committee.
    [Mr. WHITLEY in the Chair.]

    CLAUSE 5.—(Amendment of 48 and 49 Vict., c. 12, Section 1.)
    The power of distribution given to the Lord Lieutenant by Section 1 of the Constabulary (Ireland) Redistribution Act, 1885, instead of being exerciseable triennially only, may, after the commencement of this Act, be exercised as and when the Lord Lieutenant thinks proper.
    Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSON: I am afraid we cannot assent to this Clause going into the Bill at the present moment. It deals with a matter apart from the rest of the Bill, which concerns the pay and salaries of the police. Clause 5, as I understand it, gives power to the Lord Lieutenant to exercise his power of revising what is known as the free quota of police "as and when he thinks proper" instead of triennially, as provided by the existing Act. That is a very considerable power to entrust to the Executive, and without further inquiry I am not prepared to agree to it.
    The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Birrell): Of course, my hands are tied in the matter. A Committee went into the question and distinctly recommended—
    Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSON: Dissented?
    Mr. BIRRELL: Yes; it distinctly recommended that the triennial revision should be abolished, and that it should be left to the Lord Lieutenant to make the alteration when he so desired. However, it is extraneous to the main object of the Bill, which is to deal with the pay and to get rid of a good deal of dissatisfaction in the

    2291
    force, and though I think, on further reflection, the hon. Member will regret having opposed the Clause, I submit to his objection.
    Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill," put, and negatived.
    Bill reported with Amendments; as amended, considered; read the third time, and passed.

  RIVER NAVIGATION IMPROVEMENT (IRELAND) BILL.
  Considered in Committee.
  [Mr. WHITLEY in the Chair.]

  RIVER NAVIGATION IMPROVEMENT (IRELAND) BILL.

    CLAUSE 1.—(Improvement of the Navigation of Rivers.)
    (1) Subject to the provisions of this Act, the council of any county shall have power to undertake and construct within the county works for the improvement of the navigation of any river in accordance with schemes prepared by the county council and approved by the Board of Works and to cause such surveys, reports, and plans to be made as may be necessary for the purpose of preparing any such schemes.
    (2) Any works so undertaken shall be carried out to the satisfaction of the Board of Works, and shall be maintained in good condition and repair by the county council, who shall comply with any requirements made in that behalf by the Board.
    Mr. BIRRELL: I beg to move, in Subsection (2), to leave out the words "shall be carried out to the satisfaction of the Board of Words, and."
    Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSON: I have had some short communication with the Chief Secretary with regard to this matter, and I hope he will not press his Amendment as it stands. The Bill proposes to enable county councils in Ireland to raise a rate, if necessary, and spend money for the purpose of improving navigation in the rivers of Ireland. It is proposed that the works shall be undertaken in accordance with schemes approved by the Board of Works in Ireland, and the Bill provides that any works so undertaken shall be done to the satisfaction of the Board of Works, and that the county council shall look after the maintenance of
    2292
    the works so carried out, and comply with any requirements of the Board of Works. The Chief Secretary is now proposing to take out the reference to the Board of Works. If the Bill is left as he proposes, there will be no obligation whatever on the county councils to continue to work to the schemes after they have been approved by the Board of Works in the first instance. That is an absurd position to put the county councils in. If you are going to do that, there is no sense at all in having the schemes approved by the Board of Works in the first instance. Therefore I suggest that the Clause might be made to read as follows:—
    "Any works so undertaken shall be carried out in accordance with the schemes so approved, and shall be maintained in good condition and repair by the county council."
    If the right hon. Gentleman will accept that Amendment, I think it will perhaps cover the particular point that I have in view.
    Mr. BIRRELL: I withdraw my Amendment for the same reason as before.
    Sir F. BANBURY: Before the Amendment is withdrawn, I wish to say a word.
    The CHAIRMAN: I have to put the Question at once for leave to withdraw.
    Sir F. BANBURY: I only wish to express the hope that my hon. Friend knows what is in the Bill. I do not know in the least what is in any of these Bills, and all stages being passed straight away makes the position very difficult for some of us. I do not raise any objection, but I rather wish to call the attention of the Prime Minister to the position in which we on this side are placed by the course taken in regard to this Bill.
    Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
    Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSON: I beg to move to leave out the words "to the satisfaction of the Board of Works," and to insert the words "in accordance with the schemes so approved."
    I think that will meet the particular point that I have in view. It is certainly inconvenient, as my hon. Friend has suggested, that a private Member's Bill should be suddenly starred without any communication whatever with us. While I think

    2293
    that under the circumstances the interests of the ratepayers will be safeguarded by this Amendment, at the same time we ought to enter a protest against the sudden starring of such a measure.
    Mr. BIRRELL: A great many Members on your side of the House wished it.
    Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSON: Not a great many.
    Amendment agreed to.
    Mr. BIRRELL: I beg to move to leave out the words "who shall comply with any requirements made in that behalf by the Board."
    This is consequential on the Amendment just made.
    Sir F. BANBURY: I think we ought to have some explanation of this Amendment.
    Mr. BIRRELL: Have you got a copy of the Bill?
    Sir F. BANBURY: No.
    Mr. BIRRELL: If you have a copy of the Bill, you will find that the Sub-section reads—
    "Any works so undertaken shall be carried out to the satisfaction of the Board of Works, and shall be maintained in good condition and repair by the county council, who shall comply with any requirements made in that behalf by the Board."
    That has been altered at the suggestion of the hon. Member opposite. The Amendment which I now submit is to leave out all the words after the word "council"—"who shall comply with any of the requirements made in that behalf by the Board "—which are no longer necessary owing to the alteration made.
    Question, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause," put and negatived.
    Clause, as amended, added to the Bill.

    CLAUSE 7.—(Joint Question.)
    Drafting Amendment agreed to.
    Clause, as amended, added to the Bill.
    Bill reported, with Amendments; as amended, considered; read the third time, and passed.

  TOWN CHARITIES (EXTENSION) BILL [Lords.]
  Order for second reading read.
  Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."
  Sir F. BANBURY: What is the reason for this Bill being suddenly introduced in this way? We are met together to-day to do what we can to support the country against the common enemy. Why, then, should this Bill, about which no one knows anything, be suddenly introduced? It has nothing whatever to do with defence. It has probably been sprung upon us because some hon. Member on the other side wants to put his hand into some charity.
  Sir W. ESSEX: It has come down from the House of Lords.
  Sir F. BANBURY: We are met here today for the given purpose, and why should Bills, apparently satisfactory to hon. Members opposite, be put forward? In this case the Memorandum of the Bill states:—
  "The object of this Bill is to enable the benefits of charities which are at present restricted to parishes or other defined areas in towns to be extended so as to be available within the area in which the benefits can be utilised to the best advantage."
  That may be all right. But what about the wishes of the pious benefactors? This may be a good sort of departmental Bill to bring on under ordinary circumstances, but I venture very seriously to say that it is not fair to the Opposition for the Government to take advantage of their desire to do the best they can for their country in this emergency to put forward Bills of this kind, and to rush them through all their stages, without anyone knowing anything about them. They have nothing to do with the crisis.
  The SOLICITOR-GENERAL (Sir Stanley Buckmaster): I regret that the hon. Baronet has taken this attitude with regard to this Bill, which was introduced by Lord Parmoor in another place, has

  2295
  passed through its stages there, coming down here in the hope that it will receive a very considerable support—it is not a Government Bill—and pass. Having regard to the history of the Bill and where it was introduced, I should not have thought that any objection could possibly be raised. If there are objections, the Bill cannot possibly be proceeded with. It is surely not unreasonable but very important at this moment that we should have at our disposal all possible charitable sources of relief! This is a Bill whose object is simply this: that where the populations of boroughs or towns have shifted those concerned may be able, not to alter the purpose of the charity at all, but simply to alter the area originally defined, so that the operations of the charity may be extended within the boroughs. The Bill, in the opinion of many people, promises to be a very useful Bill, and I hope it will be passed.
  Question, "That the Bill be now read a second time," put, and agreed to.
  Resolved, "That this House do immediately resolve itself into the Committee on the Bill."—[Sir S. Buckmaster.]
  Bill accordingly considered in Committee, and reported without Amendment; read the third time, and passed.

  PLACES OF WORSHIP ENFRAN CHISEMENT BILL.
  Consideration, as amended (in the Standing Committee), deferred till 25th August.

  HOUSING BILL.
  Lords Amendment considered.
  Lords Amendment: In Sub-section (1) to leave out the words "on Government works" ["On behalf of Government Departments on Government works where sufficient dwelling accommodation"].
  Mr. SPEAKER: This Amendment to leave out the words "on Government works" is a privilege Amendment, because it indefinitely increases the objects on which the money is to be spent.
  The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. Herbert Lewis): We oppose this Amendment. You, Mr. Speaker, have stated that it is a privilege Amendment. I feel sure that if there was any necessity for the Amendment, the House would at once and without question assent to waive their privilege. In this particular case there is no necessity for the Amendment at all, because the Housing (No. 2) Bill which we have just passed makes the Amendment wholly unnecessary. It contains more than the powers that are contained in the words proposed, and I therefore beg to move, "That the House doth disagree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
  Question put, and agreed to.
  Mr. H. LEWIS: I beg to move, "That a Committee be appointed to draw up a reason for disagreeing with the Lords Amendment; that the Committee consist of Mr. H. Lewis, Mr. Herbert Samuel, and Mr. McKinnon Wood; that the Committee do withdraw immediately."
  Question put, and agreed to.
  Committee accordingly withdrew.
  Reason for disagreeing to Lords Amendment reported, and agreed to.
  To be communicated to the Lords.—[Mr. Herbert Samuel.]

  SPECIAL CONSTABLES (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  Mr. McKINNON WOOD: I beg to move, "That leave be given to introduce a Bill to amend and extend the law relating to the appointment of special constables in Scotland."
  The whole House, I am sure, will agree with me that this is in the truest sense an emergency measure—that it is urgent and necessary. The object of the Bill is to provide that the same powers which the police authorities in Scotland possess would in future be possessed by the county police authorities. At the present moment the county police authorities have not the powers to appoint

  2297
  special constables. In the present circumstances I think the House will agree that it is desirable they should have—[HON. MEMBERS: "Agreed."] That is the one object of the Bill. [HON. MEMBERS: "Agreed."]
  Question put, and agreed to.
  Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. McKinnon Wood and the Lord Advocate. Presented accordingly; read the first time, and ordered to be printed. [Bill 376.]
  Question "That the Bill be now read a second time," put, and agreed to.
  Resolved, "That this House do immediately resolve itself into the Committee on the Bill."—[Mr. McKinnon Wood.]
  Bill accordingly considered in Committee, and reported without Amendment; read the third time, and passed.

  HOUSING (No. 2)—(EXTENSION TO IRELAND)—BILL.
  Mr. BIRRELL: I beg to move, "That leave be given to introduce a Bill to extend the Housing (No. 2) Bill, 1914, to Ireland. This Bill, which I now ask leave to introduce, will not be proceeded with at the moment for reasons already sufficiently made plain. The urgency of the problem in Ireland is just as great as in any other part. All that is proposed in this Bill is to amend the Bill I have referred to by including Ireland and adding the urban districts.
  Question put, and agreed to.
  Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. Birrell and Mr. T. W. Russell. Presented accordingly; read the first time, and ordered to be printed. [Bill 377.]
  Bill to be read a second time on 25th August.

  ADJOURNMENT.

    GOVERNMENT OF IRELAND BILL.
    The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Asquith): I beg to move, "That this House, at the rising of the House this day, do adjourn till Tuesday, 25th August."
    2298
    5.0 P.M.
    I am sure that every one of us is anxious, so far as it can be done, without any sacrifice of principle or of position, that we should continue as a House, and as a country, to speak and act without discord in the face of the great risk and responsibility which confront us. When ten days ago the Second Reading of the Government of Ireland (Amendment) Amending Bill was postponed, both the Leader of the Opposition and myself pointed out that that postponement must be without prejudice to the domestic and political position of any party. To what was then said and assented to I adhere both in the letter and in the spirit. The Government have most anxiously considered the situation—I purposely use very few words—and our advice, after very full consideration, to the House is to adjourn after to-day for a fortnight to the 25th of this month, when we trust we shall be in a position to wind up the business of the Session. When I say that, I mean that we are not without hope that in the interval we may be able to make proposals in regard to dealing with that business which may meet with something like general acquiescence.
    Mr. BONAR LAW: I shall imitate the right hon. Gentleman in using the fewest possible words. I understand the statement we have just heard to mean that the House will now adjourn for a fortnight, and that when we meet again the House, and the Government, will be free to take whatever course then seems best. I need only add that I share to the full, and so far as I can I shall gladly help to realise, the hope expressed by the Prime Minister that some way may be found to prevent controversial debate in this House, which, at such a time, would in my belief be a national calamity.

  SOLDIERS' and SAILORS' WIVES AND FAMILIES.
  Mr. ROWLAND HUNT: May I ask the Prime Minister whether he can give an assurance that the wives and families of the soldiers and sailors who are fighting the country's battles will be provided with such food and clothing as they require, and will not be turned out of their houses

  2299
  because they cannot pay their rent? I think that is a fair question to ask, and I ask it now because I had not an opportunity of doing so before.
  The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for WAR (Mr. Tennant): As the House is aware, soldiers on duty will receive separation allowances, and as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister announced at Question Time that separation allowance will be given not only to those married on the strength but to those married off the strength. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman would like to know what the separation allowance is?
  (1) Separation allowances are granted from Army funds to the families who are not in public quarters at the following daily rates according to the rank of the soldiers, namely, warrant officers 2s. 3d., quarter-master sergeants and equivalent ranks 2s. 1d., colour-sergeants and equivalent ranks, 1s. 4d., sergeants, corporals, and privates and all equivalent ranks 1s. 1d. The above rates are increased by sixpence per day for families who were residing in the London postal area on the date of mobilisation, and continue to reside there. Children of any of the above, i.e., boys under fourteen and girls under sixteen, 2d.
  (2) When the family is in occupation of public quarters and is provided with fuel and light, the wife will receive separation allowance while her husband is separated from her by the exigencies of the Service at the reduced rate of fourpence a day for herself, and three-halfpence a day for each child subject to the above.
  (3) When the soldier's child or children are motherless the rate of separation allowance is fourpence a day for each child.
  (4) Payment of separation allowance is made monthly in advance by means of Army money orders payable at the post offices. Families of Reservists are paid by the Army paymaster from whom the men receive their reserve pay prior to their being called up for Service. And the families of soldiers of the Territorial Force are paid by the secretary of the County Association by which the Territorial Force unit is administered.
  2300
  (5) The first payment to families is made as soon as possible after the men rejoin for Service, and covers the period between the date of rejoining and the end of the month; later payments are made on the first of each month in advance.
  (6) These issues are irrespective of any allotment of pay which the soldier may make.
  Mr. HUNT: Including those married off the strength?
  Mr. TENNANT: Yes; as the right hon. Gentleman, the Prime Minister, promised at question time, the allowance is made for the first time to those married off the strength. It was not done in the case of the South African War. The Soldiers' and Sailors' Families Association, which has many branches, will give all possible help, as will the mayors' committees which are being formed by the President of the Local Government Board. In these circumstances we do not consider it necessary.
  Lord C. BERESFORD: Will the right hon. Gentleman answer question nineteen?
  Mr. TENNANT: I have not got the answer here.
  Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT: I was not able to gather whether the right hon. Gentleman's answer with regard to the allowances made to the wives and families covers the case of members of the Session staff of the Houses of Parliament who may be called upon to join the Reserves. Possibly the hon. Gentleman may not be able to give me an answer just now. This is a case which intimately concerns the House itself. It has been brought to my notice that there are cases of the wives and families of members of the Session staff whose natural anxiety has been greatly intensified by the uncertainty as to their future means of subsistence. These men have been called to the Reserves, and they are not in the same position as civil servants. I want to press the point that the matter should be looked into as closely as possible, and that the answer when given should be circulated without delay to the responsible authorities in order that the natural anxiety of those intimately concerned should be allayed.
  Mr. WORTHINGTON EVANS: I understand that the wives are to get separation allowances whether married on or off the strength. Will the same apply to the widows' and children's pensions should the necessity arise? I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman means to include those pensions in the same category as separation allowances. I think I am right in saying that the widows and children of such have not been recognised for pensions. If they are now to be recognised for pensions, I am anxious that it should be made quite clear, and I trust that the Government will provide for the widows and children. There is one other question which I should like the right hon. Gentleman to consider. There are a large number of able-bodied men in this country not qualified now to be recruited, and I suggest to him that there are men over thirty-five or forty years of age who are willing to render what service they can. If a defence force was established, and he appeals through our borough and county councils he will get a large body of men who might be used for some military purposes—for instance, to relieve those persons watching railway bridges and telegraph wires, and such duties, and set free for other duties those at present engaged upon them. I had some communication with the Financial Secretary to the War Office last Tuesday and Wednesday. It was suggested that the Home Secretary should take these men on, but I believe he does not think he has power. It is no answer to say let these men enrol as special constables. That is not the kind of service that they could render. There are some who might act as special constables, but there are a large body of them with large Volunteer experience which might be of some value. The Local Government Board or some voluntary body might be entrusted with the recruiting and organisation of such a force.
  Mr. G. THORNE: I wish to ask the Under-Secretary if he would be good enough to make clear something that is still in doubt. The question that I desire to put to him is contained in a telegram which I received this afternoon, and which asks me to obtain definite and reliable information whether the National Fund will be distributed amongst the wives and
  2302
  families of soldiers and sailors, or whether it is to be dealt with by the Soldiers' and Sailors' Families Association. I understand that in order to avoid overlapping and confusion, the local authorities are to be the local means for the distribution of these funds, and that they do not go direct to this particular association. This is the point I wish to have informaton upon, so that the local authorities may know what is the plan adopted for the distribution of these funds.
  Major HOPE: I notice from Section 115 of the Regulations for superannuation allowances that the wives of soldiers get 1s. 1d. without quarter or lodging money. If the wife remains in public quarters it seems to me that she will only get 4d. I wish to know if I am right, and I would like to have some assurance on this point.
  Mr. TIMOTHY DAVIES: I wish to know if the right hon. Gentleman has looked into the matter with regard to the purchase of meat last week, when a large quantity was purchased by the War Office above the ruling price. It is very important to the poor people that the Government should not go into the market and purchase things above the ruling price. There is another case which has just come to my notice with regard to the purchase of fodder. Last Wednesday above 100 tons of hay was offered for sale at 60s. and 65s. per ton, but it was agreed to purchase the same hay for the Army at 80s. a ton, or 15s. a ton more than the same farmer who was selling the hay had asked for the best hay he had. This kind of thing makes a lot of difference to those who desire to purchase fodder and food at the lowest price, and it is not right for the Army officer to offer from 25 to 45 per cent. above the ruling price of the market for fodder.
  Mr. WHELER: I wish to ask a question with regard to the impressment of cart horses by the military authorities. Already there has been four different sets of officers or men taking cart horses for Army purposes. In many cases these men have not got any actual authority, although nobody doubts them, but the farmers are in a somewhat bewildered

  2303
  state, and I have been asked to bring this matter to the notice of the War Office. I think those who take horses at a moment's notice should produce a warrant to show that they are acting under the authority of the Government. I am told on the most credible authority that many of these gentlemen, who are undoubtedly doing their work well, have not got that authority upon them, and in order to give confidence to those who are asked to give up their horses I think these men should have in their hands some authority to show when it is asked for.
  Mr. CROOKS: I wish to call attention to the maximum cost price which has been agreed to for the food supply of the people. As far as my Constituency is concerned, the maximum is much too high, and the shopkeepers are already fixing the price at the maximum. I want some notice to be taken of that point and the new Order made. I also would like to know whether the men who are called up to the Colours from the dockyard or the arsenal are to receive the same treatment as civil servants.
  Mr. MEYSEY-THOMPSON: I wish to support the suggestion made by the hon. Member for Colchester in regard to Yeomanry who have served in South Africa, some of whom are married men. I think we should have some such force as the hon. Member suggested, because they will not join as special constables, although they would be willing to join a military force. Many of them have spoken to me and expressed their willingness to join the military service. I do not wish now to go into the question of the reserve of horses. I have pointed out the shortage to the House a good many times, and it has been ignored. What I want to say now is that I think it would be a very great advantage if the right hon. Gentleman opposite would see that instructions are given not to take single horses from the local butcher and tradesmen.
  Mr. JOHN WARD: There has been a repetition of speeches, calling special attention to the hardship of Reservists called up from the Civil Service, and requests have been made constantly to civil servants and even to those who are on the
  2304
  establishment of this House, and in other ways connected with Government Departments that special treatment and special assistance should be given to the wives of these men, and that every opportunity should be taken to protect their interests. I hope the Government will remember that all the men who are fighting for us are equally important to us, and bear in mind that the man who goes into the Army for a short time and when his engagement is finished, and he is lucky to get into civil employment, and a regular occupation under Government is in a better position than the poor soldier whose time has expired, and who cannot get Government employment, and is often obliged to go into casual employment. Those men are in an infinitely hopeless position than the man who has been working under the Government. It is easy for the State to keep occupations open for these men when the war is over, if they are fortunate enough to return, but the best intentioned employers in the world cannot keep all the places open for their men, because there are different circumstances which they will have to meet while the war is on. I rather object to these constant demands being made upon the Government to secure the position of those in the Civil Service who happen to have been called out. While I do not want the civil servants to be forgotten in any way whatever, at the same time I hope that all our attention will not be paid to them, and we must also recognise the unfortunate position of the other part of our military forces who, after the war, may have to return to intermittent employment.
  Mr. STARKEY: I wish to ask a question about guaranteeing the rent of these men. The Special Reservists and Territorials are in a different position to the Regular Army soldier. They have got their homes, and they would go to the front with very much greater confidence and case of mind if they knew that their homes would be safe, and that there would be no fear of them being broken up owing to the non-payment of rent during their absence. If the Government can assure these men that they will receive assistance from one or other of these special funds it would do much to case their minds and encourage them to do their duty as they intend to do.
  Mr. COWAN: I wish to refer to a question which was put in the House this afternoon, and which was not answered—I refer to the insurance of fishing vessels against war risks. In many of the ports of the United Kingdom, and those in my Constituency, there are thousands of men who have been thrown out of employment in a most sudden and drastic manner. The fishing was going on as usual, and was being conducted successfully, and the men were looking forward to a highly satisfactory fishing season. All in a moment a bolt from the blue—shot without warning—made it impossible for them to make any arrangement whatever, and they found their industry paralysed and their means of living taken away from them. In my own Constituency hundreds of these men are out of employment, their great fishing fleet is lying idle, and there is no security for them because the Government have not seen their way to do for them what they have undertaken to do for the mercantile marine. These men do not understand, and cannot be expected to understand, why they should be treated differently to those engaged in the commerce of the nation. Why should fishing vessels and their cargoes receive no protection from the State, when other vessels and ships of all kinds carrying cargo are guaranteed against loss or capture and are able to keep the seas under all conditions? This is a more disastrous thing for the fisherman than for the owner of merchant vessels, because the fisherman is a poor man, dependent entirely upon the sea. He is bringing in food for the use of the nation, and should continue to bring it in at a time when it is perhaps more needed than at any other time.
  There is certainly some scarcity of food in this country at present, and yet one great source of food supply is being cut off unnecessarily. I do appeal to the Government to take measures which will enable these men to put to sea—I do not say under all circumstances, or in all localities—but I do ask that they should be given an opportunity of going to sea and of pursuing their calling and bringing in their cargoes. I would ask the Government to take into serious consideration whether the large stocks of herrings already cured and prepared for shipment
  2306
  to the markets of Germany and Russia cannot be made available for the food of the people or for the use of the Army or Navy during a time of crisis such as this. It is useless to send out the fleets to get more herrings if these enormous stocks remain unsold, and I beg the Government to consider whether they cannot be made available in that way, or whether the Government machinery for the distribution of food, which we understand is to be created, cannot give an eye to the herring fishing industry. I think that some answer should be given to this question, because it is one of life and death. Ruin is staring thousands in the face through no fault of their own, through an accident over which they have no control, and it is, I think, very hard that they should be expected and compelled to bear so large a proportion of the general burden.
  Sir J. D. REES: I want to support the plea of my hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Mr. Starkey). I am not sure that in the reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth (Mr. Astor) the Government met the point. The Government is asked to pay the rent, subject to some limitation as to the amount of rent paid, of Reservists, Special Reservists, and Territorials who are called up. They are generally older men than the men in the Regular Army. They have probably been longer married and have larger families and larger houses. The lodging allowance made to wives of soldiers in the Regular Army will not suffice to meet then-needs, and it seems only too likely that when they return from the war they may find their homes broken up. That would be a painful and intolerable thing for the country to contemplate, and I do not think the right hon. Gentleman meant that. The Prime Minister told me to-day that Lord Kitchener was considering the propriety of detaining some of the officers, I believe some 1,400 in number, who are now about to be returned to the Army in India. There can no longer be any impropriety in my urging most strongly that this should be done, and in begging the right hon. Gentleman to press it upon Lord Kitchener, who obviously, and beyond doubt, will understand the issue better than any other man. Nevertheless, I may be allowed to tell the

  2307
  right hon. Gentleman that large numbers of these officers thoroughly appreciate the fact that the danger-spot now is Europe, that it is a European and not an Indian war, and that there is no danger to India, and that they are wanted here. No European nation can now attack her. Japan is our friend; China is occupied with her own internal revolutions; and there is no danger at present. The people of India have given the most satisfactory proofs lately, even those who might be supposed to be what is called seditiously inclined, of their desire to support the British Empire in the day of trouble. It therefore seems to me that it would be a most unfortunate thing that such a large number of officers should be returned, probably in one or two transports, liable to some accident upon the sea, whereby a large number of lives of incalculable value for filling up the vacancies in the Territorials, and the new 100,000 force upon which the country looks with such confidence for its defence in this crisis, would be lost. I beg the right hon. Gentleman to press this from me. I do not venture to address the House of Gommons without having received a very large cumber of representations from the officers themselves, who are convinced, and they are most excellent judges, that they are wanted here in Europe and not in India at the present time. The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs made a most satisfactory statement about the measures taken to endeavour to bring home those British subjects who are unfortunately cut off and kept abroad by the war. Might I ask him if he will inquire as to the whereabouts, and endeavour to assist a late highly-respected Member of this House, and a present Member of the other House (Lord Joicey) and his family, who have not been heard of for something like a fortnight, and about whose fate there is considerable anxiety felt in many quarters.
  The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. Acland): I have put his name on the list that already contains two or three thousand others, and we will do our best.
  Mr. DAWES: I heard this afternoon that the Port of London Authority, I presume on the instructions of the Admiralty,
  2308
  have stopped dredging for Thames ballast. Probably the House knows that we have just come, I hope, to the end of a very disastrous building strike, and this Thames ballast—

  ROYAL ASSENT.
  Message to attend the Lords Commissioners.
  The House went, and, having returned,
  Mr. SPEAKER reported the Royal Assent to,—

  1. Anglo-Persian Oil Company (Acquisition of Capital) Act, 1914.

  2. East African Protectorates (Loans) Act, 1914.

  3. Labourers (Ireland) Act, 1914.

  4. County Town and Parish Councils (Qualification) (Scotland) Act, 1914.

  5. Diseases of Animals (Ireland) Act, 1914.

  6. Entail (Scotland) Act, 1914.

  7. Feudal Casualties (Scotland) Act, 1914.

  8. Intermediate Education (Ireland) Act, 1914.

  9. Merchant Shipping (Certificates) Act, 1914.

  10. Merchant Shipping (Convention) Act, 1914.

  11. Milk and Dairies (Scotland) Act, 1914.

  12. Metropolitan Police (Employment in Scotland) Act, 1914.

  13. National Insurance (Part II. Amendment) Act, 1914.

  14. Elementary Education (Defective and Epileptic Children) Act, 1914.

  15. Osborne Estate Act, 1914.

  16. Criminal Justice Administration Act, 1914.

  17. Injuries in War (Compensation) Act, 1914.

  18. Police Reservists (Allowances) Act, 1914.

  19. Public Works Loans Act, 1914.

  20. Education (Provision of Meals) (Ireland) Act, 1914.

  21. Bankruptcy Act, 1914.

  22. Deeds of Arrangement Act, 1914.

  23. Housing Act, 1914.

  24. Milk and Dairies Act, 1914.

  25. Unreasonable Withholding of Food Supplies Act, 1914.

  26. Housing (No. 2) Act, 1914.

  27. Special Constables (Scotland) Act, 1914.

  2309

  28. Constabulary and Police (Ireland) Act, 1914.

  29. Rivers Navigation Improvement (Ireland) Act, 1914.

  30. Town Charities (Extension) Act, 1914.

  31. Local Government Board's Provisional Order Confirmation (No. 3) Act, 1914.

  32. Local Government Board's Provisional Order Confirmation (No. 18) Act, 1914.

  33. Local Government Board's Provisional Order Confirmation (No. 19) Act, 1914.

  34. Kirkcaldy Corporation Order Confirmation Act, 1914.

  35. Wick Harbour Order Confirmation Act, 1914.

  36. Edinburgh and District Water Confirmation Act, 1914.

  37. York Corporation Act, 1914.

  38. Sheffield Corporation Act, 1914.

  Mr. DAWES: The Port of London Authority, as I understand it, have stopped dredging for Thames ballast. The importance of this is that this ballast is used extensively for making cement for building operations, and, as one may hope that building work will be soon resumed in London, it would seem a very great pity if that industry should again be stopped through a lack of ballast. I do not know what may be the reason of the Port Authority for taking this step—no doubt they are very good ones, but I mention the subject in the hope that the Financial Secretary may be good enough to look into it and see if anything can be done in the matter.
  Mr. TICKLER: I wish to ask a question of the Board of Trade as to the embargo placed on the exportation of food supplies. At Grimsby a very large business is carried on in salt fish. The fish is not consumed in this country. It is exported mainly to Catholic countries—Spain, Portugal and Italy. There are a great number of people employed in the business and they are at present thrown out of employment. Their produce is perishing, because it is not cured sufficiently to keep for any definite period. It will only keep a short time in fact, and they would like to know whether the Government cannot allow the export
  2310
  of this fish to go on so long as they are assured that the food is not going to a country with which we are engaged in war. It is a very important industry for Grimsby. It is stopped at present, the food will perish because it is not consumed in this country, and there is only a foreign market for it.
  Colonel YATE: I would like to say a word or two in support of what has fallen from the hon. Member for Stoke (Mr. John Ward) with regard to Reservists obtaining re-employment at the conclusion of the war. I should like the Under-Secretary to give us an assurance that some measures will be taken to try and enlist the sympathy of employers generally throughout the country so that by co-operation, the claims of these men when they come back at the close of the war may receive just consideration. There is one other subject mentioned by the hon. Member for East Nottingham (Sir J. D. Rees), with regard to Indian officers on leave in this country. I believe some hundreds are going out by steamer to-morrow, and I presume some measures will be taken to escort them, if necessary, on reaching the Mediterranean. I do not know there is any urgent call for them in India, whereas there is an urgent demand for officers for the new force of 100,000 men which is to be raised, and certainly these officers might be much more profitably employed in England training and drilling the men. It is, I know, a question for the India Office to consider, and I earnestly hope it will not be lost sight of. I also hope that the claims of Reservists for employment when they return home will be given priority.
  Mr. TENNANT: I can only speak by leave of the House, but as a large number of questions have been put to me I ask the indulgence of the House while I endeavour to answer them. The hon. Member for Colchester (Mr. Worthington Evans) inquired about pensions, and whether those for Reservists would be on the same scale as those given to men on the strength. I do not think he will expect me to answer that off-hand. It is a matter for the Treasury as much as for the War Office, but I promise to give it careful consideration, and I hope to be in a position to answer his question very

  2311
  shortly, because I quite recognise that it is one which should be decided soon. The hon. Member also raised the question as to the employment of civilians in a semi-military capacity, and the organisation of them in groups—not exactly regiments, but, say, camps—in order to aid the civil power in the event of disturbance. I may inform the House it is proposed to set up committees which will act as a connecting link between the Territorial Associations all over the country and the military commanders in the various districts, and it is hoped by that means we may be able to establish a body on which will be represented local gentlemen of influence, with special local knowledge which would be of value in relation to these matters. These committees will act as a connecting link between the Territorial Associations and the military forces, and by that means some organisation may be set up which may redound to the advantage of the locality. The Noble Lord the Member for Portsmouth (Lord C. Beresford) was good enough to postpone a question which, owing to great pressure, I was unable to answer at the moment. The question was—
  "Whether the Under-Secretary of State for War will consider the position of officers of the Territorial Forces of small means and with many calls upon them, with a view to making them a Grant for the purchase of the equipment with which they are required to provide themselves on mobilisation, having regard to the pecuniary sacrifices they are making on behalf of their country."
  My reply is:—
  "Under existing Regulations, these officers have all received outfit allowance, and on mobilisation they are entitled to the camp-kit allowance given to Regular officers and to a gratuity of £5 in addition. These sums should suffice to cover the purchase of equipment."
  6.0 P.M.
  I think the Noble Lord will find this is a very liberal allowance, and, considering the enormous number of claims on the Government at the present moment, he probably will not make complaint. My hon. Friend the Member for Woolwich (Mr. Crooks) asked one or two questions. To one a reply will be given by the
  2312
  Secretary to the Admiralty. But the hon. Member asked, as did also the hon. Member for Louth, as to the increased charges for food, and the excessive prices paid by the Government for food for the military forces of the Crown, and, I believe, also he suggested for civilians. The latter is really a Home Office question. But on the subject generally I may remind the House that in the last few days we have passed an Act of Parliament, to which the Royal Assent has been given in the House of Lords, intituled, "An Act for the Acquisition of Food." I think that is really an almost complete answer to the question put by the two hon. Members. In reply to the hon. Member for Faversham (Mr. Wheler). I would say that considering the enormous number of horses which the military authorities of the Crown have lately acquired, it is not surprising that I should be asked a few questions of this kind. Indeed, I am surprised that there have not been more complaints and a deeper growl at the great depredation which it is to many civilians throughout the country, especially in connection with farming operations at the present time. I think it redounds to the credit of the Remount Department that this acquisition of horses has been made on so vast a scale, as I hope it has been made with so little dislocation of trade. Having said so much, I cannot believe the complaint brought to me is quite well-founded, that a lady or a gentleman, I forget which, driving in a gig was stopped, the horse taken out of the gig and the person left to look after it. I cannot believe that was done by a responsible officer of His Majesty's Government. I cannot help thinking that that was a case which ought to have been referred to the local police. I should not be at all surprised if there are isolated individual cases of that kind. The hon. Gentleman asked me whether these remount buyers or impounders were armed with a certificate or document of some kind. If they are not, I believe they will be.
  Mr. WHELER: If we can have a Government assurance on that point that they are in future to have them it would give confidence in the future.
  Mr. TENNANT: The hon. Gentleman says "in the future." I hope he is not contemplating the mobilisation of the Army being a constant action on the part of the British Government.
  Mr. WHELER: They have not finished getting all the horses yet.
  Mr. TENNANT: I will endeavour to see that it is done, if it has not been done. The House will realise that the great bulk of the work of the acquisition of the horses has already been effected. The hon. Member for the Handsworth Division of Staffordshire (Mr. Meysey-Thompson) asked me if exception would be made in the case of single horses. I think they certainly should be made exceptions. I do not want that to be taken literally in every case, but it certainly is desired that exception should be made in the cases of owners of single horses.
  Mr. MEYSEY-THOMPSON: The right bon. Gentleman formerly stated that horses employed in the distribution of food should not be taken. I have known instances where a butcher's only horse has been taken. That is the sort of case I mean. I am quite sure the right hon. Gentleman is most anxious that it should not be done.
  Mr. TENNANT: I have already told the House that the owners of horses engaged in the distribution of food shall in no cases have more than 50 per cent. of their horses taken, and, if there is a single horse, of course it will not be taken. I have been asked whether it would be possible for the War Office to pay the rents of women married both on and off the strength who are left behind. I have already informed the House at some length of the steps the Government have taken in order to provide for the women married on the strength, and now, according to the statement made by the Prime Minister, of those married off the strength as well. Having regard to the fact that funds are being raised, including the Prince of Wales's Fund, and that a very large sum is at the disposal of the President of the Local Government Board which is to be distributed by the committee of mayors, and also having regard to the fact that for the first time we are giving a separation allowance to women married off the strength, it is not
  2314
  possible for us to contemplate the actual payment of rent. I do not think the House ought to ask it of us. [HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear!"] I am glad to hear the cheers of the small remnant of economists left in the House. The hon. Member for Stoke (Mr. John Ward) and the hon. and gallant Member for the Melton Division (Colonel Yate) raised the most difficult problem of all—that of keeping places open for men who are going to fight the battles for their King and country. I think most good employers, after demobilisation, will do everything in their power to reinstate men who return from the war. A large number of employers have already announced their intention to pay one-half of the wages of the men who are going to the front. I have certainly done it on my own estate. Every consideration will be given by the Government to their own servants who are now joining the Colours and going to the front. The class to whom my hon. Friend (Mr. MacCallum Scott) alluded as being servants of this House are not permanent servants, but are engaged from time to time. They will be given the utmost consideration. The hon. Member for East Nottingham (Sir J. D. Rees) alluded to the Indian officers who are here on leave, and who will be ordered to return to their regiments in India. Primarily, that is an India Office question, and it is not possible for me to answer it. All I can promise to do is to represent to my Noble Friend the Secretary of State for War that it might be most useful, as the hon. Member has said, that those officers should be employed, or as many of them as the India Office can spare from India, in training the new 100,000 recruits.
  Mr. G. THORNE: Will the right hon. Gentleman answer my question as to the local organisation for the distribution of relief?
  Mr. TENNANT: I cannot give an answer to that. The matter is engaging the very earnest attention of the Government, and my hon. Friend knows that it is under the consideration of the Mayors' Committee.
  Sir WALTER ESSEX: The statement announcing the Press censorship, under the direction of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the Walton Division (Mr. F. E. Smith), is a somewhat brief one—
  Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. Member should put a question down.
  The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the ADMIRALTY (Dr. Macnamara): The hon. Member for Woolwich (Mr. Crooks) asked me a question arising out of the answer given by the Prime Minister this afternoon, when he announced new Regulations making provision for half-pay to married Civil servants and others who were called to the service of the Crown. The hon. Member asked whether that would also apply to the case of the workmen in the dockyards and other naval establishments and at Woolwich and other War Office establishments, whether the men were established or not established? I have examined the answer with great care, and have sent it across to our office to be examined. No doubt it will require examination by the Treasury as well. If my hon. Friend will communicate with me, I will give him an answer immediately on the point whether the men he mentioned are included in those Regulations. My hon. Friend the Member for Walworth (Mr. Dawes) tells me that we have stopped the dredging of the Thames for ballast. I was not aware of it. It may be that it is for military reasons—I cannot say. If I had had notice I would have ascertained the fact. He makes the point that while it may be necessary for military reasons, it will undoubtedly dislocate a particular industry, and may therefore be expected to give rise to unemployment. He knows that the Advisory Committee is watching all these dislocations of trade with great care with a view to adjustment, so far as possible, wherever opportunity arises. I will refer this point to the Advisory Committee.
  Mr. HAMILTON BENN: I wish to press upon the Government as strongly as I can the injustice that is being done—inadvertently, no doubt—to shippers of cargoes as compared with shipowners under the new insurance scheme. There appears to be, from the Report of the Committee, an agreement which has been in force for some time between the State and the shipowners as to what would happen in the event of war. By that agreement the shipowner is enabled to carry on his voyage to the detriment of the cargo owner—that is to say, that the State has
  2316
  agreed to pay 80 per cent. of the risk current upon all vessels which are at sea at the time of the outbreak of war, so that ships may go on to their ultimate destination. According to usage and custom, when war breaks out, a vessel runs to her nearest port of safety, not only for her own safety, but also for the safety of the cargo, whereas under this arrangement the ship is going on to her destination, although she may have on board a cargo three or four times the value of the ship, which is uninsured, and which cannot be insured at the present time at any reasonable rate. I have an instance before me to-day where the owner of cargo is being asked at Lloyd's to pay 15 per cent. on his cargo, while the ship is being insured by the State for nothing. I wish to impress upon the Government that by the arrangement they have made with the shipowners a ship is going to act differently from the way she ever did before, and that a cargo owner is thereby prejudiced. I am aware that the Committee, whose Report was circulated this week, reported against insuring the cargo, but they recognised that hardship is being inflicted. The Report says:—
  "The owners of cargo may find themselves compelled to run uncommercial risks which may prove uninsurable except at prohibitive rates."
  They go on to give reasons why the State should not insure cargo on the same terms as the ship. Those reasons do not appear to me to be well-founded. I speak with all respect, knowing the very capable and clever people who sit on that committee, but I would point out that the committee was composed practically entirely of shipowners and underwriters. It is true that the chairman is known by everybody to be a great authority on commercial matters, but he is a banker and an underwriter, and on the committee there was no representative of the cargo interest at all.
  Sir CHARLES HENRYmade an observation which was inaudible in the Reporters' Gallery.
  Mr. H. BENN: They were not owners of cargo in the same way as a shipper or trader who is shipping on his own account. By this arrangement the State is going to run 80 per cent. and the shipowner only 20 per cent., so the additional risk which

  2317
  the cargo is taking is equivalent to 80 per cent. of the premium charged upon the vessel. If the insurance under the plan was to date only from the neutral port, or the first port of safety that the vessel could put into, the cargo owner would have nothing to say, because then the ship would run for her nearest port in the same way as before. But now she is encouraged to continue her voyage to the detriment of the ship. It is said in the Report of the Committee that the cargo owner will be able to recoup himself by the higher prices which may eventually be obtained for his cargo, but I should think that in ninety out of a 100 cases these cargoes are sold ahead before they are shipped. Very little merchandise is shipped in these days unsold.
  There is another point that the Committee recommend at the end of their Report, which is that their recommendations should be immediately made public so that the trading community would have notice of what was proposed. That, indeed, would have been a great safeguard to the trading community if it had been done. The Report is dated 30th April, but the first we heard of it was last week when war had practically broken out. There are other matters in connection with the present state of affairs which need to be considered. Under the conditions of the moratorium the payment of freight is one of the few exceptions. The importer in this country is bound to pay his freight and the exporter has to pay the freight on the goods exported, but how is the importer to pay the freight, when there is a moratorium, on the value of a cargo which is coming in? If no one is obliged to pay the importer how is the importer to find the money to pay the freight? In the same way the exporter of coal, for instance, shipping his coal abroad, is obliged to pay the freight on the cargo, but in turn the shipowner who takes the cargo for bunker coal, or something of that sort, is not obliged to pay for it until the expiry of the moratorium. Another matter which has been brought to my notice, and which I think requires the attention of the Government, is the triple bond which has to be given for the export of cargo from this country. The shipper of the cargo from this country has no control over the cargo once it is put into the ship. The shipowner and the captain are the only people who can
  2318
  control the destination of the cargo once it is on board, and it does not seem right that the exporter should have to find a triple bond for the cargo which is going abroad and which leaves his control directly it is on board the ship, and I cannot see how he is to obtain that triple bond from any reasonable person.
  Sir W. ESSEX: I rise to ask some representative of the Government whether, with regard to the appointment of the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. F. E. Smith) which was announced to the House the other day as the channel by which official information should be given to the newspapers, and, therefore, to the public, a further detail could be added, somewhat along these lines, that the public might know which communications had passed through his hands and were official, so that in reading one's newspaper one might see these items of information which will be beyond doubt and which might easily be separated from the general cluster of rumours which go about in the Press, and many of which are needlessly disturbing.
  Sir A. MARKHAM: I want to bring before the House a matter which was dealt with briefly by the President of the Board of Trade this afternoon in reply to a question. In the engineering trade and the calico trade, German patents are very extensively used in this country. Anyone who wishes to use them at present has no means of getting hold of the patentees in Germany who supply the article, and there is no provision in the Patents Act under which the article can be manufactured in this country without arrangement with the patentee himself. Under what is termed "The Lloyd George protection of industry"—the Patent Act—it is provided that an article patented should be manufactured within a certain time in this country, but owing to a decision by Mr. Justice Parker (now Lord Parker), the onus of proof whether the article was manufactured in this country or not was thrown on the person objecting to the patent. People must use these German patents and I do not know how the Government are going to deal with them. I think they will probably have to bring in a Bill in a fortnight's time to enable manufacturers in this country to put down

  2319
  a plant to manufacture these goods, which are at present manufactured in Germany, but which it is essential now should be manufactured in this country, and I hope the President of the Board of Trade will, during the Adjournment, bring his immediate attention to this question. I can assure him that, particularly in the engineering trade, the matter is one of urgency.
  There is another matter that I want to bring before the attention of the Board of Education. The district in which I live is near a military camp, and practically all the horses have been taken and a great many men have been called away with the Colours, and the consequence is that there is a great shortage of labour in gathering in the harvest. I want to know whether the President of the Board of Education would issue an Order. I do not know whether he has any Parliamentary powers, but he has the power not to prosecute in cases where children are used for the purpose of helping to gather in the harvest. At a time like this, when it is so necessary that the harvest should be got in, the children in the agricultural districts—boys and girls of the ages of twelve and fourteen—could be, and ought to be, utilised in getting in the harvest. It would be necessary for the Board of Education to inform the school attendance officers that in cases where these children were taken from the schools for the purpose of getting in the harvest no prosecution should take place. I did not trouble the President of the Board of Education to be here, and if the Patronage Secretary will kindly convey these remarks to him I shall be grateful.
  Mr. MONTAGUE BARLOW: I want a point cleared up which was not satisfactorily cleared up this afternoon with regard to the payment of the Territorials. It is not a small point. It is one which affects a very large number of men, and it is one which is felt strongly by the men themselves. Recently, when speaking to a man on this point, I said, "You are getting 2s. 7d. a day; you are allowed to assign 1s. 7d. to your wife, and keep 1s. yourself under the Regulations. You need have no fear, because the distress committees, if there is any difficulty with
  2320
  regard to your wife, will see that there is no want." The answer came back, I am glad to say very quickly, from a good many of these good fellows, "Yes, but that is charity, and we would rather send our money ourselves." I understand the regulation at present is that when a man is on foreign service and in the Regular Army he may assign the whole amount. But surely this is a time when red-tape might be done away with altogether, and if it is any question of a distinction being drawn between the Regular Army and the Territorials, or between men on active service out of the country and in the country, that might be swept away, and if, when men are on active service abroad and are in the Regular Army, they are allowed to assign the whole or such portion of their pay as they think fit to their wives, that ought to be allowed equally to the Territorials, although they are not sent out of the country. Their difficulty in sending money to their wives may be almost as great as if they were serving abroad. The post may be irregular and their difficulties may be almost as great as though they were abroad. I will ask the representative of the Government to see whether this suggestion of mine cannot be carried to the proper authority, and that the Territorials should be allowed to assign the whole of their pay, or such portion as they think fit, even though it is more than the 1s. 7d. at present allowed, so that their wives may receive payment regularly as from the Government, and the Territorials themselves may not be put to the trouble and possible confusion of having to take the 7s. a week which they receive and get postal orders and send it back to their wives themselves.
  Sir A. MOND: There are one or two practical points which has occurred to me during my visit to my Constituency for the week-end that I should like to put before the representative of the Board of Trade. The first point that arises is that many shopkeepers are refusing to accept £1 notes as legal tender, and are offering discount to poor people who know no better, giving the impression that they are not worth a sovereign. Of course this is a serious matter, and I do not know what power the Board of Trade and the Government have in prosecuting or otherwise

  2321
  punishing people for behaving unlawfully. The second point is the question of the Government food prices. Are these food prices compulsorily enforceable, and, if so, by whom, or are they merely advisory? Has the Committee which is regulating these prices any power or will a Bill be passed giving local authorities power to compel people to sell at these prices? Otherwise it will be of relatively little value in provincial towns. The third point has been mentioned before. It is the question of closing public-houses. I have found that the licensing magistrates I have spoken to are unanimously of the opinion that public-houses ought to be shut throughout the country at seven o'clock for two reasons, the importance of people economising whatever money they have, and the danger of large bodies of unemployed men, having nothing to do, spending their time in public-houses and becoming more unmanageable by taking intoxicating liquor. The magistrates, of course, although they have the power to close public-houses earlier in cases of apprehended riot, have no power to deal with it unless they apprehend riot. Of course, in many cases it may be possible that riots may break out, but the apprehension is not sufficiently justified to allow the licensing bench to interfere. I understand that in France, for instance, they have very much curtailed the hours of all licensed premises. I think a short Bill would be generally welcomed by all classes in this country in this great crisis, and would be very valuable and very beneficial indeed.
  Then, there is the question which has been creating a great deal of interest and anxiety in South Wales, and will also probably affect other parts of the country. That is the very important question of obtaining pit props. If they cannot obtain pit props, our collieries will cease work. A large amount of pit props come from the Baltic, and that source, of course, is closed at the present time. I would like to ask whether the Commissioners of Woods and Forests could not get some of their experts to inquire as to the timber that may be available in England. Timber in the New Forest used to provide a supply of pit props, and I wish to know whether the Commissioners could work out a scheme under which this timber would be
  2322
  made available by cutting, in order to supply collieries with what they require. If that could be done, you would at the same time be giving employment to people who may otherwise be unemployed. I cannot say how serious may be the detriment to the industries of this country through lack of timber. There is another point which perhaps the Board of Trade may take up. I find that a very large number of pit horses are being requisitioned by the military. Of course, we do not wish to interfere with the requisitioning of horses by the Territorials or the Regular Army. In some cases half of the horses are taken away, and I wish to know whether it is actually necessary for troops who are not going to the front immediately to requisition horses of this character. I think the Board of Trade might have a conference with the military authorities, because naturally they scarcely look at the thing in the same way as those engaged in industries. These are some of the points which have been put to me, and I would be glad if the Board of Trade would take them into consideration and make some kind of announcement which would put people's minds at rest.
  Mr. WILES: I desire to call the attention of the Board of Trade to a matter which is rather urgent, namely, the breakdown of the ordinary machinery for conveying food supplies to this country. Last week the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced an insurance scheme which should cover cargoes of wheat coming to this country. The prompt way in which the Government have dealt with that matter has prevented the prices of wheat and flour rising to an unreasonable height. A further development which has taken place is likely to be rather serious. Six million quarters of wheat are contracted for at low prices to come to this country from the United States and Canada. That wheat has appreciated in value something like £3,000,000 or £4,000,000. It is also contracted for at low freights. The first difficulty was that Americans could not ship the wheat because they could not get an insurance of the war risk. The Government stepped forward, and a war risk insurance is now obtainable. A number of large shipowners are cancelling freights which had been booked to bring the grain

  2323
  to this country. That is a very serious matter. We have had a lot of legislation passed through very rapidly dealing with shopkeepers and merchants in this country, but there are a large number of people—I know one of the largest shipowners—who own tramp steamers, and I am told that they are cancelling charter parties. That is a very serious thing, and one which the Board of Trade ought at once to inquire into, because if these charters are broken, shippers of wheat and other cheap foodstuffs coming to this country will find at once that they cannot ship wheat or flour, because the British shipowner has broken his contract.
  Another difficulty which has arisen is this. We know that bankers have been in consultation with the Treasury, and that the Treasury has given every assistance in their power to keep money at the normal price, and to make the flow of trade go on as nearly as possible in the normal course. The shippers who produce all kinds of articles have drawn and attached to their documents statements that war risks can now be guaranteed by the British Government. What is happening? Not only are shipowners cancelling the charter parties and freights which were booked—and I suppose freights have been advanced—but they are now able to secure better freights in view of the Government guarantee against war risks. Bankers in the United States and Canada are refusing, although the war risks are guaranteed by the British Government, to negotiate the documents. I think the Board of Trade should bring British bankers together in order to see whether some arrangement could be come to by which they could advise their banking friends in other countries, so that these contracts may be carried out. It is very important that this wheat and flour should come forward with all speed. It is the only part of the world where the crop is ready to be shipped to this country. The harvest is earlier in America, and it is of the utmost importance to this country in every way that the wheat contracted for should be sent over here. If the machinery for shipping the wheat which has been contracted for is upset, if the wheat is thrown on the market and has to be resold, and if a freight has to be rebooked and drafts rearranged,
  2324
  it is going to put the price up considerably. What I think is so important is that the price of food may be kept as low as possible.
  I do think that the Board of Trade should put this matter before the bankers, because I believe if it is put before them, in view of the fact that they themselves are, I understand, being assisted in their emergency, they will do what they can to benefit the poor people of the country. All the documents in relation to shipments to Liverpool, Hull, and Leith come through London, and I believe if a meeting of the London Joint Stock Banks was called, and if the matter was put before them, something might be done. Surely the shipowners are not going to be unpatriotic. There is a general feeling, I understand, to help in this matter of urgency, and I do think that some pressure should be brought to bear on the shipowners who are so unpatriotic and who wish to cancel freights at the present moment. There is another matter to which I wish to refer. Several people have spoken to me of large companies who have made profits during last year, and have not announced dividends. I see that the North British Railway Company have earned a good dividend, but they have not paid it. The Gordon Hotels Company have also made a profit, but they have not distributed a dividend. It seems to me that if people in the smaller ways of business are to be asked not to put up prices but to give general help at this time, it might be pointed out that great concerns like those I have mentioned are keeping back money which they ought to have distributed in the shape of dividends. That does seem to me unpatriotic. There are many small shareholders all over the country who have money in these concerns, and I do hope that the Board of Trade will do everything in its power to put these matters straight.
  Mr. ANNAN BRYCE: I wish to call the attention of the representative of the Board of Trade to the probability of the cessation of employment from the fact that the railway companies are not being paid by the Government for the work which they are performing for the Government. Under the arrangement now in operation,

  2325
  as the House knows, all the railways have been commandeered by the Government, and some of them are doing the largest part of their work at present for Government purposes. As I understand, the Government are paying railway companies nothing for this work. Of course they will eventually be paid, but the machinery for calculating what should be paid has not yet been devised. Many of these railway companies have contracts for large amounts for the supply of material by various manufacturers throughout the country, but not being in receipt of any money for services they are doing for the Government they are not able to pay for the supplies furnished, or to be furnished, and accordingly they have given notice to some of the large contractors that they will have to suspend the contracts running with them. The result of that will be that very large weekly sums in wages will cease to be paid. I know one case where a large manufacturer has a contract with one of the railway companies. That contract runs to hundreds of thousands of pounds, and the weekly wages bill of the contractor amounts to something like £3,000. Under the suspension which was announced today by the railway company in question that amount of wages will cease to be paid, because, of course, the manufacturer cannot go on indefinitely paying wages if he is not receiving any money. I know that this company has come to an arrangement to keep all their workmen employed if they can at a reduced rate, but they will not be able to do that if a large portion of their work is cut off. They will not be able to keep the workmen employed if they cannot get payment for the goods they supply. Therefore, I do suggest that the Government, as soon as possible, should come to some arrangement by which the railway company should be paid on account for the work they are doing in order that the wages, which eventually result, will continue to be paid to the workmen employed.
  Sir. J. HARMOOD-BANNER: The hon. Member opposite (Mr. Wiles) has put before the House a matter that deserves very serious consideration. It is a matter of very great importance, because it may mean not only the stoppage of imports of corn, but it may bring about results
  2326
  which would be disastrous to importers on this side who have corn which they are unable to bring to this country. There is one other point I wish to put. The hon. Member referred to corn from the United States. There is also the question of corn from East India, which is equally important. The same difficulty which is arising in regard to corn from the United States is arising in regard to corn from East India. A merchant may offer Indian bankers £100,000 or £200,000, or more, for the purpose of purchasing wheat in India to be shipped to this country, but in consequence of the crisis which has arisen—and I presume caution is absolutely necessary under the circumstances—the bankers, are not in a position to give currency in India which it is necessary for the merchant to have in order to purchase the corn. There is one way to get over that. I only mention that because I think it is very important that the Government should take it into consideration. The only persons who have money in India at present are, I believe, the Government of India. I think that the Government of India should at once see how they could help this country by assisting the bringing of corn from India into this country. They can do that by arranging for the Indian banks to take payments of the Indian Government in this country, which could be cabled out, and then allowing the merchants to have their rupees on the other side.
  If that is not done then we shall be faced with the fact that we cannot get any corn from the United States, and we cannot get it from the East Indies. It is a very important fact, and the sooner it is looked in the face the better I have spoken to the Under-Secretary for India about it, and I believe that the matter has been under consideration. I am not certain that anything has as yet been fixed, because the Government of India would have to be consulted, and I believe that so far they have not given their consent. It is of the greatest moment that the Government in India should assist, as much as anyone else, in having wheat brought to this country. I would ask the Secretary to the Board of Trade whom I see present to bring the matter to the attention of the Indian Government. There is another

  2327
  matter which has been brought under my observation in the place where I live. The distribution of the £5 to the Territorials has had a very mischievous effect, because a great deal of the money has gone to waste through being spent on drink. I would suggest that in future the payment of this £5 should not be made in cash, but should be placed to the credit of the man in the Post Office Savings Bank from which it could be drawn either by himself or his wife for the benefit of his family. A man will not draw money out of the bank in order to spend it in public houses, but, if he has the money lying loose in his pocket it may be spent in this way. Owing to the way in which it is given out at present it seems to be of so little value that the people take no notice of it and the money is thrown about as if it were pence.
  Mr. C. E. PRICE: In reference to the remarks of the hon. Member for Islington (Mr. Wiles), I will ask the Secretary of the Board of Trade to give wider publicity than has been done up to the present, to the extent of this protective insurance. The hon. Member spoke constantly as if—
  Mr. WILES: I was only referring to the emergency scheme which was started by the Government, because it was put to them that if wheat and flour sold were being protected under the scheme, anything of any kind may be insured.
  Mr. PRICE: I do not find fault with the hon. Member. My point is that I have received letters from merchants anxious to know the position with regard to outside insurance, and I would merely ask the Secretary to the Board of Trade if he will give wider publicity to the statement that sugar, tea or other raw materials are entirely affected by the insurance. Another matter to which I would like to call attention is the position of unexpired season-ticket holders, as to which I have received many letters. It would be entirely wrong to allow the railway companies to benefit owing to the position of these persons, and I think that it would be desirable that some announcement should be made that season-ticket holders, on joining the Colours, should either be allowed to hand in their tickets, and have
  2328
  their money refunded, or else that a period equal to the unexpired period for which the season ticket has been taken should be allowed later on, so that the person who has taken out the season ticket shall not be aversely affected.
  Colonel BURN: I desire to draw the attention of the Government to a section of the community who are going to be very hard hit by this war. I represent a Constituency which contains two seaside places, Torquay and Paignton, where a large number of people earn their livelihood by letting lodgings and doing for visitors in the months of July, August, September, and October, and also in the winter because of the mild climate which induces people to go down there. Owing to the war the people who have engaged rooms for the autumn or winter have written to say that they will be unable to take them. There is going to be great distress among those lodging house people. Remember that the majority of them are widows, and that their sole means of earning a livelihood is by letting those rooms. I know that there are many other things that have to be attended to, and other people who will suffer, but I do hope that some consideration will be given to those people, because if the Government can see its way to help them it will be assisting really deserving people who have nothing to fall back upon, and no alternative means of earning a livelihood.
  Mr. NEVILLE: I desire to draw attention to a question between millers and the growers of corn. A great many farmers are feeling that the prices to which millers have put up flour are really out of proportion to the prices which the farmers are receiving for their corn in the various local markets. It seems to me that, if there is any raising in the price of flour, it may have an effect upon farmers keeping back their corn instead of sending it to market in the ordinary way. I have no doubt that the Government have taken the question into consideration, and I feel certain that it would give a great deal of confidence to farmers who are now in the midst of harvesting their crops if they knew that the question of the price which millers are enabled to charge for their

  2329
  flour was going to be taken into consideration by the Government. The millers should not be making a much greater profit than the farmer who is growing corn is enabled to get in the local market. It is a small matter, but it will have a considerable bearing upon the hoarding of corn among the growers in the country. I understood that the Government had taken over certain mills. I saw in the paper that they were taking over mills in Sunderland. I do not know whether that is true or not. If the representatives of the Government would give some information, a great many farmers would be very grateful to them.
  Sir CLIFFORD CORY: I would desire to bring before the attention of the Board of Trade the important question as to the triple bonds which have to be given by shippers. Communications have been made to me from the Cardiff Chamber of Commerce and others which show that the effect of the present arrangement would be serious in preventing shipments at least from South Wales. Those who are interested view with great alarm the fact that the shipper as well as two sureties have to give a bond for the value of the cargo, whereas after the ship has sailed the shipper has actually no control over the destination of the ship, and even if the shipper sees his way to undergo such a risk, which is very doubtful, it is impossible for him to find two sureties who will undertake such a risk. Then I would draw attention to the question of having branch offices to deal with insurance in the different ports of the country. If it is possible to have branch offices in Cardiff and other ports where an enormous amount of business is done, it would be of the utmost convenience to traders there. Another point is the question of insuring cargoes in foreign bottoms. If the policy is pursued of insuring cargoes only in British bottoms, it will tend very much to increase the rate of freight. We know that there is a large number of vessels belonging to friendly Powers not connected with those with whom we are at war, and if it is not possible to engage their tonnage for shipping there may be an enormous increase in the rates of freight on such things as coal and food
  2330
  stuffs. My right hon. Friend the Member for Swansea drew attention to the question of pit wood, which is a most important matter, and deserves careful consideration by the Government. Supplies have enormously decreased, and no fresh supplies will be coming in. The supplies come largely from France, and all cutting will probably stop there, and, in addition, there will be the difficulty of getting the wood across, even if it was available. On the subject of the moratorium, I may point out that freight is exempt from the operations of the moratorium. But supplies, such as coal and other necessaries supplied abroad, which enable the ship to earn freight, are not exempt. Therefore it is difficult to see how these people can go on with their business if they have to pay out freight and other charges and cannot get payment themselves, and for this reason I think that it is necessary to exempt necessaries supplied abroad as well as freight.
  The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. J. M. Robertson): With respect to a number of the points that have been raised, I can only promise to bring the matter before the Departments concerned, or to give it close consideration at once where it affects my own Department That is the kind of answer which I can give to the hon. Baronet who spoke last on such points as the triple bond, the difficulty of insuring foreign bottoms, and the question of moratorium in regard to freight. He can hardly expect me to offer him anything more than to promise consideration on these points. The question of branch offices is under consideration. It was considered by the Committee who reported on insurance that it would be very difficult to have offices anywhere than in London, but the urgent demand which has been made has set us to reconsider this question and possibly the suggestion may be adopted. I cannot go beyond that. With reference to the point made by the hon. Member for Wigan (Mr. Neville), I can promise him that it will be carefully considered. The hon. Member for Torquay will realise that it is very difficult to suggest how to help the unfortunate class for which he speaks, but they will not be overlooked. The hon.

  2331
  Member for Edinburgh raised an important question as to unexpired season tickets. I can only say that I hope that a fair arrangement will speedily be arrived at, and that the railway companies will readily meet what justice and the requirements of the nation demand.
  Mr. PRICE: You will take up the matter at once?
  7.0 P.M.
  Mr. ROBERTSON: Yes, I promised to look into that. The hon. Member for the Elgin Division raised another point as to dealing with the £5, and that I will bring to the notice of my right hon. colleague who represents the War Office. The hon. Member for Inverness Burghs raised the very important point of advances to the railway companies, who are working under great pressure and doing national service. That, too, is under consideration, and I can make no further promise or announcement on the subject. I am afraid I can do no more in regard to the important points raised by the hon. Member for Islington and another hon. Gentleman in regard to the difficulties connected with the importation of corn. The suggestions which have been made will be promptly taken into account, and, indeed, have already been brought before the Department concerned.
  Mr. WILES: Will the hon. Gentleman bring the point as to drafts before the bankers when they meet? I believe the joint-stock bankers have put the point as to drafts before them, and it will be to their interest as well as in the interests of the community generally.
  Mr. ROBERTSON: I think that can be done, but the matter is not so simple as my hon. Friend suggests. In regard to pit horses, that is a matter which is obtaining attention; and in regard to pit props, my own Department has not adequate information, and it is a matter which should come before the Woods and Forests Department. In regard to the refusal by shopkeepers to receive £1 notes, I would point out that the £1 note is as legal a tender as the sovereign, and there should be no difficulty about the acceptance of £1 notes. An hon. Member behind me raised the question as to the cache to be
  2332
  put on official news. That point has already been raised in this House and is under consideration, as is also the subject of giving assurance that news published as official is actually official. In regard to the question put by the hon. Member for Grimsby, it is impossible to remove the embargo on such exports as he refers to, and he will see the difficulty about the exportation of food supplies, but I can assure him that any steps that can be taken will be promptly taken in the interests of the trade.
  Sir A. MARKHAM: What about the question of patents? Is that matter receiving attention?
  Mr. ROBERTSON: It is under consideration at present.
  Mr. EDMUND HARVEY: I wish to call the attention of the House to a matter of very great importance affecting a large number of persons in this country who bear German names, or names that may appear to be German. Some of them are German subjects, but many of them are Swiss or American subjects of German origin, resident in this country. They have experienced great anxiety and suffering during the last week, because in a section of the Press one or two articles have appeared which have encouraged the ordinary citizen to act as an amateur detective, listening to the conversations of foreigners and following up anybody of foreign appearance. I think the general public have taken an entirely different attitude, and one of notable friendliness and restraint; but, as eases of espionage are likely to occur, there may be very real danger of inflammatory articles in the Press raising public antagonism against innocent people. There are persons who are not German subjects, and there are also a large number of innocent Germans resident in this country, some of them who have been here for many years for the purpose of business; and others who have been here a short time as students and are unable to leave the country, and who have no idea or intention of abusing our hospitality. If my right hon. Friend the Under-Secretary for the Home Department (Mr. Ellis Griffith) is able to make some statement reassuring the public, and recommending a calm and friendly

  2333
  attitude on the part of the Press, he may do a very great service, not only to these innocent people who are in great distress at the present moment, but to the future relations of the two countries. It is very noteworthy that while we are in a state of war there is no feeling of grudging or hostility against the mass of the Germans. We have no sort of unfriendly feeling to them, and we can show, in a time of crisis, friendliness and self-restraint to these unhappy strangers in our midst.
  The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. Ellis Griffith): I respond most willingly to the appeal which my hon. Friend has made to me. He has shown very clearly the attitude of the English people at this very moment, and I think all will agree that they have behaved with a great amount of self-restraint. I should be very glad to think that any word of mine would do anything to increase this state of feeling. As my hon. Friend has said, we know that there are a great many Germans and men who bear foreign or German names who have been, if not in name, in reality citizens of this country and resident here for many years past. I am sure we would all regret and deplore any unfriendly feeling towards them, and as regards the Press, I do not think it has done anything so far to promote ill-feeling, a fact which in itself is corroborative of the statement I have just made as to the attitude of the people. If any words of mine will help or emphasise the appeal of my hon. Friend I shall be very glad. So far as the Department with which I am associated are concerned, we are very anxious that Germans, whether naturalised or not, should be treated with every possible friendliness as in the past, and as we all hope will be the case in regard to future relations between these countries. At the same time, the Bill recently passed must be obeyed, and I hope that all German subjects will take immediate steps to register themselves, and thus avoid difficulties which might otherwise occur.
  Mr. COWANrose—
  Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. Member has exhausted his right to speak.
  Mr. MORTON: I want to impress upon some occupant of the Front Bench—I do not know who is in charge of the business—the fact that the question put by my hon. Friend the Member for East Aberdeenshire has not been answered by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade. I do not necessarily want to complain of him, because he may say that he knows nothing about it, but, as I understand, my hon. Friend gave notice of these questions as to the insurance of vessels, and the delay in dealing with these supplies of fish, somebody ought to be prepared to answer those questions. But the representative of the Board of Trade neglected them, whilst taking care to answer questions of Members of the Opposition. That only shows how Scotland is neglected by the Government. They can answer Tory Members, but they altogether neglect their Scottish supporters. I am astonished that the hon. Gentleman should have forgotten even to allude to the questions, although I do not say that they come within his Department. I do not know whether the Lord Advocate has anything to say on the matter, but I do know that my Constituency is very largely interested in the fishing question, as is the whole of the North of Scotland. I do hope that somebody on the Front Bench will take notice of these matters, and try to do something in the interests of Scotland and the Scottish people. We have been galloping everything through at the request of the Government, but there comes a time when we must protest against the way in which Scotland has been neglected.
  Mr. ROBERTSON: My hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen put to me general questions which did not relate merely to Scotland, but I believe I omitted to deal with some of those questions. He had nearly finished his speech when I came into the House. The scheme in regard to insurance of fishing vessels was rapidly matured at the Board of Trade, and representatives of the industry were in conference with our officers on the subject. The hon. Member for Aberdeen raised a certain question as to exports which I dealt with in reply to the hon. Member for Grimsby. As regards the Scottish problem my right hon. Friend may be able to make some statement.
  The LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. Munro): With reference to what has fallen from my hon. Friend the Member for East Aberdeenshire, and my hon. Friend for Sutherlandshire, I can assure them that I shall convey to my right hon. Friend the Secretary for Scotland what they have said, and I should like also to assure them that the position of the fishing industry at this particular crisis is very fully realised in the Scottish Office, and that the problems to which reference has been made are engaging its careful attention.
  Question, "That this House, at the rising of the House this day, do adjourn till Tuesday, 25th August," put, and agreed to.

  MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS.
  That they have agreed to—
  Unreasonable Withholding of Food Supplies Bill,
  Housing (No. 2) Bill,
  Special Constables (Scotland) Bill,
  Constabulary and Police (Ireland) Bill,
  River Navigation Improvement (Ireland) Bill, without Amendment.
  That they do not insist on their Amendment to Housing Bill to which this House hath disagreed.
  Remaining Orders read, and postponed.
  Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER, pursuant to the Order of the House of 17th July, proposed the Question, "That this House do now adjourn."
  Question put, and agreed to.
  Adjourned accordingly at a Quarter after Seven o'clock, till Tuesday, 25th August.