Commons Sitting of 4 August 1914

Preamble
The House met at a Quarter before Three of the clock, Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
Great Northern Railway Bill [Lords],
As amended, considered:—
Ordered, That Standing Orders 223 and 243 be suspended, and that the Bill be now read the third time.—[The Chairman of Ways and Means.]
King's Consent signified; Bill read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.
Porthcawl Urban District Council Bill [Lords],
Ordered, That Standing Orders 84, 214, 215, and 239 be suspended, and that the Bill be now taken into consideration provided amended prints shall have been previously deposited.—[The Chairman of Ways and Means.]
Bill accordingly considered, as amended.
Ordered, That Standing Orders 223 and 243 be suspended, and that the Bill be now read the third time.—[The Chairman of Ways and Means.]
Bill accordingly read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.
Wimbledon Corporation Bill [Lords],
Ordered, That Standing Orders 84, 214, 215, and 239 be suspended, and that the Bill be now taken into consideration provided amended prints shall have been previously deposited.—[The Chairman of Ways and Means.]
Bill accordingly considered, as amended; an Amendment made to the Bill.
Ordered, That Standing Orders 223 and 243 be suspended, and that the Bill be now read the third time.—[The Chairman of Ways and Means.]
Bill accordingly read the third time, and passed, with Amendments.
Wesleyan and General Assurance Society Bill [Lords] (by Order),
Third Reading deferred till To-morrow, at a quarter-past Eight of the clock.
Glasgow Corporation (Tramways, etc.) Bill [Lords] (by Order),
Consideration, as amended, deferred till To-morrow, at a quarter-past Eight of the clock.
Poole Harbour Bill [Lords] (by Order),
As amended, considered:—
Ordered, That Standing Orders 223 and 243 be suspended, and that the Bill be now read the third time.—[The Chairman of Ways and Means.]
King's Consent signified; Bill read the-third time, and passed, with Amendments.
London County Council (General Powers) Bill (by Order),
Glasgow Corporation (Celluloid) Bill (by Order),
Consideration, as amended, deferred till To-morrow, at a quarter-past Eight of the clock.
Kirkcaldy Corporation Order Confirmation Bill,
"To confirm a Provisional Order under the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act, 1899, relating to Kirkcaldy Corporation." Presented by Mr. MCKINNON WOOD; and ordered, under Section 7 of the Act, to be considered To-morrow.

SUPREME COURT OF JUDICATURE.
Account presented of Receipts and Expenditure of the Paymaster-General on behalf of the Supreme Court of Judicature in respect of the Funds of Suitors of the Court in the year ended 28th February, 1914, and Account of the National Debt Commissioners for the same period in respect of Funds held by them on behalf of the Supreme Court of Judicature, with the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General thereon [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 412.]
UNION OF SOUTH AFRICA.
Copy presented of Correspondence relating to the Natives Land Act, 1913 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.

BANKRUPTCY.
Copy presented of Thirty-first General Annual Report by the Board of Trade,

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under Section 131 of the Bankruptcy Act, 1883 [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed. [No. 413.]

SESSIONAL RETURNS.

  ADJOURNMENT MOTIONS.
  Return ordered, "of Motions for Adjournment under Standing Order No. 10, showing the date of such Motion, the name of the Member proposing the

  (a) Closure.

  Date when Closure moved, and by whom.

  Question before House or Committee when moved.

  Whether in House or Committee.

  Whether assent given to Motion or withheld by Speaker or Chairman.

  Assent withheld because, in the opinion of the Chair, a decision would shortly be arrived at without that Motion.

  Result of Motion and, if a Division, Numbers for and against.

  1.

  2.

  3.

  4.

  5.

  6.

  and (2) in the Standing Committees under the following heads:—

  Date when Closure moved, and by whom.

  Question before Committee when moved.

  Whether assent given to Motion or withheld by Speaker or Chairman.

  Assent withheld because, Whether assent given in the opinion of the to Motion or with Chair, a decision would held by Chairman, shortly be arrived at without that Motion.

  Result of Motion and, if a Division, Number for and against.

  1.

  2.

  3.

  4.

  5.

  and (3) of Bills in respect of certain stages of which the power of selecting Amendments was conferred upon the Chair by Order of the House, under the following heads:—

  selection of Amendments.

  Title of Bill.

  Date of Order of the House.

  Stages of Bill in respect of which power to select Amendments was conferred upon the Chair.

  1.

  2.

  3.

  (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 265, of Session 1913)."—[Mr. Maclean.]

  PUBLIC BILLS.
  Return ordered "of the number of public Bills, distinguishing Government from other Bills, introduced into this House, or brought from the House of Lords, during Session 1914; showing the number which received the Royal Assent; the number which were passed by this House, but not by the House of Lords; the number passed by the House of Lords but not by this House; and distinguishing the stages at which such Bills as did not receive the
  definite matter of urgent public importance, and the result of any Division taken thereon during Session 1914 (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 264, of Session 1913)."—[Mr. Maclean.]

  CLOSURE OF DEBATE.
  Return ordered "respecting application of Standing Order No. 26 (Closure of Debate) during Session 1914 (1) in the House and in Committee of the Whole House, under the following heads:—
  Royal Assent were dropped or postponed and rejected in either House of Parliament (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 0.93, of Session 1913)."—[Mr. Maclean.]

  PUBLIC PETITIONS.
  Return ordered, "of the number of Public Petitions presented and printed in Session 1914; with the total number of signatures in that year (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 0.94, of Session 1913)."—[Mr. Maclean.]
  SELECT COMMITTEES.
  Return ordered, "of the number of Select Committees appointed in Session 1914 and the Court of Referees; the subjects of inquiry; the names of the Members appointed to serve on each, and of the Chairman of each; the number of days each Committee met, and the number of days each Member attended; the total expense of the attendance of witnesses at each Select Committee; and the name of the Member who moved for such Select Committee; also the total number of Members who served on Select Committees (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 0.95, of Session 1913)."—[Mr. Maclean.]
  STANDING COMMITTEES.
  Return ordered, "for the Session of 1914, of (1) the total number and the names of all Members (including and distinguishing Chairmen) who have been appointed to serve on one or more of the four Standing Committees appointed under Standing Order No. 47, showing, with regard to each of such Members, the number of sittings at "which he was present, and the number of divisions in which he took part; and (2) the number of Bills considered by all and by each of the Standing Committees, the number of days on which each Committee sat, and the names of all Bills considered by a Standing Committee, distinguishing where a Bill was a Government Bill or was brought from the House of Lords, and showing, in the case of each Bill, the particular Standing Committee by whom it was considered, the number of days on which it was considered by the Committee, and the number of Members present on each of those days (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 0.96, of Session 1 913)."—[Mr. Maclean.]
  SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE.
  Return ordered, "of the number of days on which the House sat in Session 1914, stating for each day the date of the month and day of the week, the hour of the meeting, and the hour of adjournment; and the total number of hours occupied in the Sittings of the House, and the average time; and showing the number of hours on which the House sat each day, and the number of hours after eleven p.m.; and the number of entries in each day's Votes and Proceedings (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 0.97, of Session 1913."—[Mr. Maclean.] Vol. 65.
  BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
  Return ordered, "showing, with reference to Session 1914, (1) the number of Sittings at which Government Business had precedence under the Standing Orders during the entire Sitting; (2) the number of Sittings on Tuesdays and Wednesdays at which precedence was given to Government Business up till 8.15 p.m., and to Private Members at 8.15 p.m., and the number of Sittings on Fridays at which Private Members had precedence under the Standing Orders; (3) the number of Sittings at which Government Business was given precedence under a special order of the House during the entire Sitting; (4) the number of Saturday Sittings; (5) the total number of Sittings at which Government Business had precedence; (6) the total number of days on which the House sat; and (7) the number of days on which Business of Supply was considered (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 266, of Session 1913)."—[Mr. Maclean.]

  PRIVATE BILLS AND PRIVATE BUSINESS.
  Return ordered "of the number of Private Bills, Hybrid Bills, and Bills for confirming Provisional Orders introduced into the House of Commons and brought from the House of Lords, and of Acts passed in Session 1914, classed according to the following subjects:—Railways; Tramways; Tramroads; Subways; Canals and Navigations; Roads and Bridges; Water; Waterworks; Gas; Gas and Water; Lighting and Improvement; Local Legislation; Corporations, etc. (not relating to Local Legislation or to Lighting and Improvement Schemes); Ports, Piers, Harbours, and Docks; Churches, Chapels, and Burying Grounds; Markets and Fairs; Gaols and other County Buildings; Inclosure and Drainage; Estate; Patent; Divorce; and Miscellaneous:
  Of all the Private Bills, Hybrid Bills, and Bills for confirming Provisional Orders which in Session 1914 have been reported on by Committees on Opposed Private Bills or by Committees nominated partly by the House and partly by the Committee of Selection, together with the names of the selected Members who served on each Committee; the first and also the last day of the sitting of each Committee; the number of days on which each Committee sat; the number of days on which each selected Member has served; the number of days occupied by each Bill in Committee; the Bills the Preambles of which were reported to have been proved; the

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  Bills the Preambles of which were reported to have been not proved; and in the case of Bills for confirming Provisional Orders, whether the Provisional Orders ought or ought not to be confirmed:
  Of all Private Bills and Bills for confirming Provisional Orders which, in Session 1914, have been referred by the Committee of Selection, or by the General Committee on Railway and Canal Bills, to the Chairman of the Committee of Ways and Means, together with the names of the Members who served on each Committee; the number of days on which each Committee sat; and the number of days on which each Member attended:
  And, of the number of Private Bills, Hybrid Bills, and Bills for confirming Provisional Orders withdrawn or not proceeded with by the parties, those Bills being specified which have been referred to Committees and dropped during the sittings of the Committee (in continuation of Parliamentary Paper, No. 0.98, of Session 1913)."—[Mr. Maclean.]

LOANS FOR HOUSING PURPOSES (IRELAND).
Return ordered, "showing, for each borough and urban district in Ireland, the total amount of public moneys advanced for Housing Purposes during the thirty years ending the 31st day of March, 1914; the amount of each separate Loan in such period and the year in which the first advance on foot of each such Loan was made: the total principal outstanding on the 1st day of April, 1914, and the total repayment (principal and interest) in year to the 31st day of March, 1914. in respect of each such area; and the rateable valuation of each such area."—[Mr. Patrick O'Brien.]

LOCAL AUTHORITIES (LAND AND HOUSING).
Return ordered, "showing (1) the acreage of land held by each county council in England and Wales, other than the London County Council, distinguishing agricultural land from other land (a) as owners of fee simple; and (b) as leaseholders or otherwise, and the purposes for which the land is used or was acquired.
(2) the number of dwelling-houses provided by each county council (including the Standing Joint Committee) in England
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and Wales, other than the London County Council, for housing (a) small holders; (b) policy; (c) county council employés; and (d) other persons, since the 1st day of January, 1906; and
(3) the number of dwelling houses in rural districts for the provision of which loans have been sanctioned under Part III. of the Housing of the Working Classes Act, 1890, since the 1st day of January, 1906."—[Mr. Peto.]

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.

  Egypt.
  Sir WILLIAM BYLESasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the Egyptian Government has allowed "Wadinnel," one of the suppressed papers, to re-appear without giving any reasons for such exceptional treatment; whether the Egyptian Government intends to consider the case of other suppressed newspapers; and whether he will give instructions to His Majesty's Agent and Consul-General in Egypt so to modify the Press law in that country as to enable newspapers to defend themselves in open trial before suppression?
  The UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE for FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. Acland): I am making enquiries as to this case, and will inform my hon. Friend as soon as possible.
  Sir WILLIAM BYLESasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether Mr. Kyriakos Mikhail, who represented the Coptic cause in this country some time ago, has been refused per mission to start a newspaper; and, if so, why?
  Mr. ACLAND: The fact is as stated by the hon. Member. Mr. Mikhail applied for permission to publish a newspaper in two languages, but his application was refused, as no such publications are allowed by the Egyptian Government.
  Sir J. D. REESasked the Secretary for Foreign Affairs whether an arrangement has been concluded between the Italian Government and the Senoussi of the Djarabub and Kufra oases; and whether there is a prospect now of the delimitation of the western frontier of Egypt being undertaken?
  Mr. ACLAND: I have no knowledge of such an arrangement, and there is no immediate prospect of the delimitation in question being undertaken.

  INDIA.

    PRESS ACT.
    Mr. EDMUND HARVEYasked the Under-Secretary of State for India in how many cases appeals have been brought in Courts of Law against orders of forfeiture made by the Executive Government under the Press Act, and whether any of these appeals have yet been successful?
    The UNDER-SECRETARY Of STATE for INDIA (Mr. Charles Roberts): So far as the Secretary of State is aware, there have been five such appeals, all of which were unsuccessful.
    Mr. E. HARVEYasked the Under-Secretary for India whether he will give particulars of the case brought by the owners of the Rifah-i-Am steam press, Lahore, appealing against an order of forfeiture made under the Indian Press Act of 1910; whether he is aware that the appeal was dismissed on technical grounds as being barred by time, and that this was a result that even the lawyers who advised the applicants had not been able to anticipate; whether the loyalty and honesty of purpose of this newspaper was admitted by the Governor of the Punjab; and whether, in view of the circumstances of this ease, the Secretary of State will advise that some relief should be granted?
    Mr. ROBERTS: The case referred to was one in which the printing Press made an application under Section 17 of the Press Act to set aside an order of forfeiture under Section 4. The Chief Court of the Punjab, which heard the application, rejected it on the ground that it was time-barred under Section 17, which requires that such application must be made within two months from the date of the order of forfeiture. The terms of that section are explicit, and admit only of the interpretation put upon them by the Chief Court. The Secretary of State has no information with regard to the third part of the question, and is not disposed to interfere with the discretion of the Local Government.

    UNIVERSITIES.
    Mr. E. HARVEYasked the Under Secretary for India whether the Government
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    of India are about to introduce legislation on the subject of the management of Indian universities; whether it is proposed to alter the constitution of the syndicates which are the executive authority of the universities, by providing that the members of the syndicate shall be nominated directly by the Government; whether at present such syndicates are partly composed of members elected by the senates of the universities, of which 80 per cent. are already the nominees of the Governor or Lieutenant-Governor of the province concerned; and whether the Government of India have consulted any of the universities in question with regard to these proposals.
    Mr. ROBERTS: The hon. Member will find particulars as to the constitution of the Syndicates in the Sixth Quinquennial Report on Education in India. The Bill to amend the Indian Universities Act does not alter the management of Indian Universities, and, as' regards the Syndicates, merely provides that when a University exercises powers in more than one province the Director of Public Instruction of each such province shall, if the Government so direct, be a Member. The answer to the last part of the question is in the affirmative.

    RAJA OF COCHIN.
    Sir J. D. REESasked the Under Secretary for India whether he can give the House any information regarding the abdication of His Highness the Raja of Cochin?
    Mr. ROBERTS: In September of last year the Raja of Cochin expressed the desire, after eighteen years of arduous and continuous work, of retiring from active participation in worldly affairs and devoting himself to a religious life. His Highness' abdication was accordingly sanctioned by the Government of India, and adequate arrangements have been made by the State for the maintenance of himself and his family. His successor is the first cousin (once removed) of His Highness, and was born in 1858.

    POLICE (PENSIONS).
    Sir J. D. REESasked the Under-Secretary for India whether the Secretary of State is aware that Indian police officers are entitled to no pensions, other than invalid pensions, until they have put in thirty years' service, while officers of the Public Works and Forest Departments, who are similarly recruited in England,

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    are entitled to a first pension after twenty-one and a full pension after twenty-five years' service; and whether the Secretary of State will take steps to remove this grievance concerning which police officers have, without result, memorialised the Government of India?
    Mr. ROBERTS: I would beg to refer the hon. Member to the answer given him on the 15th July, 1912, and to that given to the hon. and gallant Member for East Leicestershire on 7th January, 1913.
    Sir J. D. REESasked the Under-Secretary for India, whether the Secretary of State will, as he is not prepared to take any immediate action to remove the grievances of police officers in India, forward copies of all Questions asked in the House relating to their grievances to the President of the Royal Commission on the Indian Public Services for consideration.
    Mr. ROBERTS: The officers themselves have had the opportunity of presenting their case to the Royal Commission, and I doubt whether the questions asked in the House would add appreciably to the information in the possession of that body.

    SUICIDE BY BURNING AMONG GIRLS (BENGAL).
    Sir J. D. REESasked the Under-Secretary for India whether the Government of India attributes to any particular cause the present prevalence of suicide by burning among girl wives in Bengal; and, if so, to what cause?
    Mr. ROBERTS: The Secretary of State has had no official report on the subject.

    OPIUM TRAFFIC.
    Sir J. D. REESasked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether the Secretary of State has information to the effect that, following upon the adoption of the Government's present opium policy, the illicit possession, sale, and use of cocaine in India has largely increased; and whether he is aware that one Nzer Hussein Raja Hussein was, on 8th July, sentenced in Bombay to a year's rigorous imprisonment for illicit possession?
    Mr. ROBERTS: The use of cocaine for non-medical purposes has been on the increase in India, as in other countries, but the Secretary of State sees no reason to ascribe this to the opium policy of the
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    Government of India, which continues, so far as internal consumption is concerned, to be one of Excise regulation, as in the past. He has seen a newspaper report of the case referred to in the second part of the question.

    COSMOPOLITAN PRESS.
    Mr. EDMUND HARVEYasked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that the district magistrate of Dehra Dun recently demanded payment of a security of 500 rupees from the owner of the Cosmopolitan Press on the ground that it had changed its premises from one part of the town to another; and whether he will say under what section of the Press Act a magistrate can take security from a press already in existence upon this ground?
    Mr. ROBERTS: The Secretary of State has received no report upon this case, but Section 3 of the Press Act, 1910, read with Section 5 of the Printing Presses and Books Act of 1867 would clearly justify the taking of security from an existing press, the place of which was changed.
    Mr. KINGasked the Secretary for Foreign Affairs by what instrument, if any, is His Majesty's Government bound to guarantee Belgium against the violation of her neutrality or against any occupation of her territory.
    Mr. ACLAND: This question was answered by the Secretary of State in his statement in the House of Commons yesterday.
    Mr. KING: Will the reference and explanation of this instrument be given in the papers which are soon to be laid before the House?
    Mr. ACLAND: I will make that suggestion to my right hon. Friend.

  NATIONAL INSURANCE ACT.

    NURSING GRANT.
    Mr. CHARLES BATHURSTasked The chancellor of the Exchequer whether the Government nursing grant, to be administered by the Insurance Commissioners through the medium of the insurance committees, will be available only for the nursing of insured persons or such persons and their dependants or, alternatively, whether, seeing that it is provided by the taxpayers generally, it will be available for the nusring of all sick

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    persons within the administrative area of such committees whose means will not admit of the employment of a professional nurse?
    Mr. WEDGWOOD BENN (Lord of the Treasury): The matter is under consideration.

    MEDICAL BENEFIT (SEAMEN).
    Mr. F. HALL (Dulwich)asked the hon. Member for St. George's-in-the-East, as representing the Insurance Commissioners, whether, according to the National Insurance Act, a seaman can only obtain the services of a panel doctor at the port at which he signs on; and, if so, whether he will take steps in the next amending Bill to give facilities for seamen to receive medical benefits and treatment at any port in the United Kingdom?
    Mr. BENN: In the case of seamen who are members of the Seamen's National Society, medical attendance is available in every port in Great Britain, under the special arrangements made by that society. As regards other seamen, it is open to them to avail themselves of the special "travellers'" arrangements, under which medical benefit may be obtained anywhere in Great Britain.

    PANEL DOCTORS.
    Mr. F. HALL (Dulwich)asked what is the total amount of fund which has accumulated in respect of insured persons who have not chosen their doctors under the National Insurance Act, whether any arrangements have been or are proposed to be made with a view to the distribution among panel doctors of such money; how many persons have neglected for any reason to select a doctor; and whether, in view of the fact that in many instances this neglect is due to circumstances beyond the person's control, steps can be taken to use this accumulated sum for the benefit of those who have contributed over a long period and have derived no benefit there from.
    Mr. BENN: As previously stated the whole of the funds available to an Insurance Committee for the remuneration of doctors on the panel fall to be distributed and no accumulation is possible. The rest of the question does not, therefore, arise.

    ACCRINGTON TRADE DISPUTE.
    Mr. W. THORNEasked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that Messrs. Howard and Bollough, an
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    engineering firm at Accrington, locked out all their employés about three weeks ago because of a dispute with the Amalgamated Society of Engineers; if he is aware that the advisory committee have decided that the workpeople who are not in dispute are entitled to unemployed benefit under Part II. of the National Insurance Act, and that the question has been put before the umpire for his decision; and if he can state the cause of the umpire's delay in coming to a decision.
    The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. Robertson): My attention has been called to this dispute. About 300 claims for unemployment benefit have been received, and all have been disallowed. In only five cases have appeals against the disallowance been lodged. Two of these appeals were made by workmen in the spindle and flyer department through the National Union of Gas Workers and General Labourers, and three by workmen in the building department and fluted roller department. The cases were heard by the Blackburn Court of Referees on the 23rd July, and the Court, by a majority, recommended that the two appeals of the workmen engaged in the spindle and flyer departments should be allowed, on the ground that there was no dispute between these workmen and the employers, and that the department in question was covered by the proviso to Section 87 (1) of the National Insurance Act. The Board of Trade have declined to accept this recommendation, and have informed the association accordingly, with a view to the association referring the matter further to the Umpire if they desire to do so. The other three appeals were adjourned by the Court of Referees pending the decision of the Umpire on the first two cases. The question has not yet been put before the Umpire for his decision. It will be put before him as soon as a request to this effect is received from the association.

    Scottish Farm Servants (Holidays).
    Mr. COWANasked the Secretary for Scotland whether, in view of the continually growing demand of Scottish farm-servants for a weekly half-holiday, and having regard to the national importance of the industry in which they are engaged, he will take immediate steps for the appointment of a Departmental Committee to investigate the conditions under which such holidays may be instituted with

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    the minimum of disturbance to the operations of farmers and breeders of stock and with instructions to such committee to report at the earliest possible date?
    The SECRETARY for SCOTLAND (Mr. McKinnon Wood): I am unable to make any promise on the subject at present.

    Regent's Park.
    Mr. CASSELasked the President of the Board of Agriculture, as representing the Commissioners of Woods and Forests, whether he is aware that the Crown Estates Paving Commissioners levy rates on the residents living on the east side of Regent's Park for paving, repairing, cleaning, lighting, and watering the roads, amounting to 2s. 8d. in the £, in addition to the ordinary rates levied by the St. Pancras Borough Council; that the roads are in a very bad condition; that promises to re-construct the surface of the roads with a special kind of tar macadam were made in 1911; and whether he can give any definite assurance that these roads will be re-made in the autumn?
    The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of AGRICULTURE (Mr. Runciman): I am informed that the rates for paving, cleaning, lighting and watering roads levied by the Crown Estate Paving Commissioners under their special Acts of Parliament are 1s. 4d. in the £, and that parties paying those rates get practically an equivalent reduction in the rates levied by the local authority. I am assured that the greater part of the outer circle road on the east side of the park will be reconstructed this autumn. The Commissioners' funds are limited, and their work has had to be restricted according to the funds available.

    Crown Estates Paving Commissioners.
    Mr. CASSELasked whether any accounts are published by the Crown Estates Paving Commissioners?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: I am informed that the accounts of the Commissioners are printed, and copies can be obtained on application by any person paying the Commissioners' rates.

    American Beef Trust.
    Mr. FIELDasked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether his attention has been directed to the operations of the American Beef Trust in
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    Argentina and Australia; whether, in view of the fact that 80 per cent. of the supply in the Central Meat Market, London, is of foreign or Colonial importation, he will cause inquiry to be made into this subject or consider the expediency of reappointing the Departmental Committee to investigate and report upon the matter?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: This matter is engaging the careful consideration of the Government, but I cannot make any definite statement upon it at present.

    Live Stock Trade (Great Britain and Ireland).
    Mr. FIELDasked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether he will consider the advisability of appointing the proposed Committee as promised to inquire into and report upon the unsatisfactory conditions prevailing in the live stock trade between Great Britain and Ireland, with a view to enable the business to be carried on with advantage and safety in the interest of both countries?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: I cannot make any further statement on this subject at present.
    Mr. CRUMLEY: Will the right hon. Gentleman consider the question of reducing the period of detention?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: That is dealt with in the answer to the next question.
    Mr. FIELDasked what further relaxations regulating the importation of live-stock from Ireland into Great Britain have been arranged; whether Irish fat or store animals will be allowed facility of transit to markets or grazing land; and whether the period of detention will be reduced?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: An order has been made to-day, to come into operation at midnight to-morrow, under which animals from any port of Ireland, except the scheduled area, will be allowed, after four days' detention at a landing-place in Great Britain, to be moved by licence to specified premises, there to be kept under observation for fourteen days unless slaughtered in the meantime.

    Housing (Cottages).
    Mr. BRIDGEMANasked the President of the Board of Agriculture, if it is intended that loans for 60 years shall be sanctioned for the building of cottages of under £150 in value?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: The period of the loan necessarily depends upon the probable duration of the building, and each case will have to be considered on its merits.
    Mr. BRIDGEMANasked the President of the Board of Agriculture if his advisers have decided what is the equivalent in wages of an eighth of an acre of garden to a cottager; and what is the minimum wage which the agricultural labourers under the Crown are to receive in order to be able to pay 4s. a week rent for cottage and garden?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: It is impossible to give a precise answer to the first part of the question; it depends upon various considerations, conditions of soil and climate, the time and opportunity which the occupier of a cottage may have for the cultivation of his garden, and so forth. With regard to the latter part of the question I would refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer which I gave to a question on this subject addressed to me by the hon. Member for the Wilton Division on Tuesday last.
    Mr. C. BATHURSTasked the President of the Board of Agriculture whether, in view of the pressing need for additional cottage accommodation in many rural districts, he will reconsider his decision to postpone or abandon that part of the Government's Housing Bill which enables the work of erecting cottages to be carried out by public utility societies upon more favourable terms than at present as regards the proportion, period, and rate of interest of loans for this purpose from the Public Works Loans Commissioners?
    Mr. RUNCIMAN: I cannot add anything at present to what I said on Friday last.

    British East Africa (Masai Tribes).
    Mr. EDMUND HARVEYasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies what fines have been levied on members of the Masai tribes during the last two years for trespass or for allowing their cattle to pass across the boundaries of the Southern Reserve in British East Africa?
    The SECRETARY of STATE for the COLONIES (Mr. Harcourt): It would be difficult to make an adequate statement within the limits of a verbal reply, but I am having a written answer prepared which will be sent to my hon. Friend as soon as possible.
    Mr. HARVEY: Will it be circulated with the Votes?
    Mr. HARCOURT: I will consider that.

    Suffragist Prisoners.
    Mr. ASTORasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether bail was refused to Miss Grace Roe and Miss Nellie Hall when recently arrested; whether they were forcibly fed for seven weeks when on remand; whether ho has directed that in future cases of the same kind the granting of bail shall not be opposed by the prosecution; and whether the seven weeks spent in prison prior to trial will be reckoned as part of their sentence?
    The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. McKenna): Miss Hall was on remand and awaiting trial 4½ weeks and Miss Roe 6 weeks, and during that time they were forcibly fed. Their sentences date from the first day of the sessions at which they were tried, the 23rd June, one month from the date of their arrest. I have given instructions that bail should not be opposed by the prosecution in these cases provided it is in suitable amount and the prisoner promises not to commit outrage in the meantime. In the case of these two prisoners bail was not opposed by the prosecution, but was refused by the magistrate in his discretion. In spite of their refusal of food their health has not suffered, and I regret that I do not feel justified in advising the remission of the sentences passed on these prisoners unless they will give an undertaking to refrain in future from criminal acts and incitements to crime, in which case I should be glad to do so.

    Animals in Mines.
    Mr. BUTCHERasked the Home Secretary the number of mines and the number of animals employed in mines which were inspected in 1913 by special inspectors of horses in the Northern Division (No. 2) and in the Midland and Southern Division (No. 6), respectively; and whether he will give instructions that in future particulars as to the numbers of mines and of animals inspected shall be included in all reports of His Majesty's inspectors of mines?
    Mr. McKENNA: The figures for the Northern Division are given by the inspector in his report, namely, 264 mines and over 15,000 horses. The figures for the

    1903
    Midland and Southern Division are 307 mines and 6,145 horses. The inspectors will be asked to see that the figures in question are included in all future reports.
    Mr. BUTCHER: In view of the figures that have come out in the report of the inspectors, will the right hon. Gentleman appoint additional horse inspectors?
    Mr. McKENNA: I would not like to make a reply to the hon. Gentleman now.

    Motor Omnibus Conductors.
    Mr. HUNTasked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that motor omnibus conductors have to be on duty at 9 a.m. till 11.15 p.m., one hour and three-quarters being allowed out of it for meals; and as this is more than twelve hours a day, whether he can take any steps to get these very long hours reduced?
    Mr. McKENNA: This subject was investigated by the Select Committee on motor traffic, when evidence showed that about nine and three-quarter hours are actually spent on the omnibus, the remainder being relief time. I am not aware that conditions have since changed for the worse, and I believe there have recently been negotiations on the subject between the London General Omnibus Company and the Workers' Union. It is not a matter in which I have any authority to interfere.

    Banwell New School.
    Mr. SANDERSasked the President of the Board of Education if his attention has been called to the correspondence between the Somerset Education Committee and the Board relative to the plans for a new school at Banwell; if he is aware that the plans were sent in to the Board on 3rd April; that no question as to their suitability was raised by the Board till 23rd July; that the new school is urgently required, and that the action of the Board is causing delay at the best time of the year for building purposes; and whether he will endeavour to prevent any further delay in the matter?
    The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of EDUCATION (Mr. Pease): The Board of Education approved the plans of the school, so far as educational requirements are concerned, on 16th March last. The Board's letter of 23rd July did not contain any criticisms of the plans, but asked for information as to the delay in the commencement
    1904
    of building operations. The plans require the approval of the Local Government Board as well as of the Board of Education, and I understand that they are still under the consideration of the Local Government Board, who are in communication with the county council with regard to the drainage.

    Secretary for Scotland's Decision (Lieutenant Cameron).
    Sir HERBERT RAPHAELasked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that the Vote for the salary of the Secretary for Scotland was not reached in the discussion of the Scottish Estimates, and therefore no opportunity was afforded of criticising his decision in relation to the case of Lieutenant Cameron, he will provide an opportunity of bringing the matter before the House of Commons?
    The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Asquith): I fear I do not see my way to give special facilities for a discussion of this case.
    Mr. KING: Can this matter be raised on the Appropriation Bill?
    The PRIME MINISTER: It it not a matter for me.

  BRITISH ARMY.

    MESSRS. J. B. WALKINSON AND SON, LIMITED, HOLMFIRTH.
    Mr. JOWETTasked the Secretary of State for War if Messrs. J. B. Walkinson and Son, Limited, of Holmfirth, are in contractural relations with his Department; and, if so, whether they are paying the employés in their dye-works the standard rate of wages?
    The FINANCIAL SECRETARY to the WAR OFFICE (Mr. Baker): No recent complaint has been received of any infringement of the Fair-Wages Clause in Army contracts held by the firm alluded. If there is any cause for complaint the matter will be investigated on receipt of full particulars.

    ROYAL ENGINEERS (GEORGE FLYNN, COUNTY LEITRIM).
    Mr. FRANCIS MEEHANasked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that George Flynn, of Drumshambo, county Leitrim, enlisted in the Royal Engineers, in Edinburgh, in May last under a false age and description, and is now stationed at Chatham; and whether, having regard to his false

    1905
    declaration and that he is a delicate boy and the only support of an old infirm mother, he will be now discharged?
    The UNDER-SECRETARY of STATE for WAR (Mr. Tennant): It appears that this recruit understated his age on enlistment, but this does not under the regulations constitute a false declaration necessitating discharge. As regards the other aspects of the matter the recruit is of good physique, and, although his mother has described her son as her only support, she has never asked for his discharge on compassionate grounds.

    GARRISON AND REGIMENTAL INSTITUTES (WAR OFFICE COMMITTEE).
    Mr. ASTORasked the Secretary of State for War whether Parliament will have an opportunity of seeing and discussing the Report of the War Office Committee recently appointed to inquire into the system of supply to garrison and regimental institutes before their recommendations are put into effect?
    The PRIME MINISTER: I cannot give a pledge such as that asked for by the hon. Member, but I certainly think that the House ought to have an opportunity of discussing the recommendations of the Committee.

    AVIATION STATION, ORFORDNESS.
    Mr. DUNDAS WHITEasked the Financial Secretary to the War Office, whether the arbitrator has yet issued his award in the arbitration for the purchase of about 1,249 acres at Orfordness for the establishment of an aviation station and other purposes; and, if not, whether he can say when that award is likely to be issued.
    Mr. TENNANT: The award has been issued and the amount is £12,905.

    Labour Exchanges.
    Mr. F. HALL (Dulwich)asked the President of the Board of Trade, if his attention has been called to the claim of Mr. C. W. Wright for arrears of pay due to him in connection with his services as local agent for the Board of Trade Labour Exchanges and Unemployment Insurance at Penge; whether he is aware that it was arranged on Mr. Wright's appointment that his remuneration should be based on the number of unemployed books current in the area of the agency at the end of the year upon a fixed scale; that subsequently
    1906
    his appointment as local agent was determined and he received a fresh appointment as a temporary clerk at the Anerley Road Exchange; that on 13th November, 1913, the Board of Trade sent Mr. Wright an order for £42 5s. 10d. in full satisfaction of his claim for remuneration while acting as local agent; that this offer was refused and the Board of Trade in February, 1914, offered to pay a further sum of £10 10s. 8d. if accepted in settlement; if he can state why, if the first amount offered represented all that Mr. Wright was entitled to, the offer of a further sum was made to him; on what basis these proposed payments were calculated; what amount was due to Mr. Wright at the time his appointment as local agent was terminated on the scale of pay laid down in the Board's letter of 21st January. 1913; and if he will explain the grounds upon which Mr. Wright was discharged from his employment as temporary clerk shortly after he submitted a petition through his solicitors with regard to the-payments properly due to him?
    Mr. ROBERTSON: The facts in this, case are not completely stated in the question. I am circulating with the votes a statement giving full particulars of the case referred to.—[See Written Answers this date.]
    Mr. HALL: Can the hon. Gentleman, to-save time, say what is the meaning of the words "books current?"
    Mr. DUNDAS WHITEasked the President of the Board of Trade, whether his attention has been called to allegations as to the inadequate pay received for overtime work at the Labour Exchanges in Scotland; if he can say what is the scale of overtime pay for Labour Exchange work; and whether any steps have recently been taken with reference to it?
    Mr. ROBERTSON: Clerks employed in; the Labour Exchanges are not entitled by the terms of their appointment to any payment for overtime; and prior to April 18th, 1914, payments for overtime work were made only in respect of periods of exceptional pressure with the special sanction of His Majesty's Treasury in each case. These payments took the form of gratuities. Certain complaints were made as to the inadequacy of these gratuities. Since April 18th, 1914, a regular system of overtime pay at hourly rates, which are practically the same as those paid to clerks in other branches of the Government Service

    1907
    on similar scales of salary, has been in force in the Department. The rates paid are 1s. 2d. per hour for clerks on the scale of salary £110—£5—£150; 10d. per hour for clerks on the scale of salary £60—£5—£105; and 8d. per hour for clerks on the scale of 20s.—1s.—30s. per week. Temporary clerks whose remuneration is from 25s. to 35s. per week are paid for overtime work at the rate of 10d. per hour.
    Mr. W. THORNEasked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that the manager at the Stratford, East, Labour Exchange on Monday, 27th July, sent a number of plasterers to Grays, Essex, to work for Messrs. Mallables, which is in dispute in connection with the London building trades lockout; if he can say why the men in question were not informed at the time that the job was in dispute; and if he intends taking any action in the matter?
    Mr. ROBERTSON: I have caused inquiries to be made into the matter to which my hon. Friend refers. I understand that no information was in the possession of the Labour Exchange at Stratford that the firm in question was one which was affected by the dispute in the London building trade. One man only was submitted to the firm from the Stratford Exchange.

    Trade Boards Act.
    Mr. BRIDGEMANasked the President of the Board of Trade if ho will state the various industries to which the Trade Boards Act now applies, and how many persons are now employed in those trades, respectively; and how many were employed before they came under the provisions of the Trade Boards Act?
    Mr. ROBERTSON: The trades to which the Trade Boards Act now applies are certain branches of tailoring, paper box making, machine-made lace finishing, chain making, sugar confectionery and food preserving, shirt making, the making of hollow-ware and of tin boxes and canisters, and linen and cotton embroidery. There are no statistics relating to the precise branches of trade which are within the scope of the Trade Boards Act; and it is possible to make only very rough estimates of the numbers employed, which are believed to be somewhere about 350,000 in all. Information is not available to enable a comparison to be made between the numbers employed before
    1908
    and after the application of the Trade Boards Act, but it seems probable that the numbers employed have in general been maintained, and that in some cases they have increased.

  POST OFFICE.

    TELEPHONE SERVICE.
    Mr. HOAREasked the Postmaster-General how many assistant clerks are serving in the London telephone service, and how many of them have been recommended for promotion; whether it is his intention only to promote them after examination; and whether he is aware that the Royal Commission on the Civil Service has recommended that when a clerk of the junior clerical class is selected for promotion to the senior class he should not be subjected to any examination, whether competitive or qualifying.
    The POSTMASTER-GENERAL (Mr. Hobhouse): I am enquiring into the matter, and will communicate with the hon. Member.

    POSTAL SERVICE, DIDDLEBURY, SHROPSHIRE.
    Mr. HUNTasked the Postmaster-General, if he can have a letter-box put up at Diddlebury, near Craven Arms, Shropshire, as the inhabitants have to walk about two miles on a very bad road to post their letters?
    Mr. HOBHOUSE: I am having enquiry made and will communicate with the hon. Member.

    Public Trustee (Advisory Committee).
    Mr. ROWLANDSto ask Mr. Attorney-General whether a Committee of four gentlemen as an advisory body to the Public Trustee has been appointed; if so, whether he can state under what authority the Committee has been appointed; what will be the exact duties and powers of the Committee or will it be only consultative; if there will be any remuneration for the time devoted to the work, and, if so, what amount; and to whom the Committee will be responsible?
    The ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Sir J. Simon): The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. The Committee has been appointed under the authority of the Lord Chancellor. The duties and powers of the Committee will be advisory only, and they will from time to time examine and criticise the investments which the Public Trustee has made.

    1909
    The Committee have expressed then-desire that they should act without remuneration. The Committee will be responsible to the Lord Chancellor.
    Mr. ROWLANDS: Will there be any official Report from the Committee to the House?
    Sir J. SIMON: I do not think it has been decided whether there will be an official Report. The extent of their responsibility is indicated in the answer I have given.

    Foot-and-Mouth Disease.
    Mr. FIELDasked the Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture (Ireland) whether, in view of the freedom of Ireland from foot-and-mouth distemper, he is prepared to reconsider the existing scheduled areas and enable the live stock trade to resume normal conditions?
    Mr. T. W. RUSSELL (Vice-President of the Department of Agriculture, Ireland): Restrictions on the movement of animals in Ireland are now confined to an area of about seven miles radius from the scene of the last outbreak in county Tipperary. The question of the return to normal conditions of the export trade in live stock to Great Britain is, of course, one for the Board of Agriculture and Fisheries. I am hopeful, however, that the position in Ireland will be regarded as warranting a substantial modification of the Board's present regulations at an early date.

    Royal Irish Constabulary.
    Mr. FRANCIS MEEHANasked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that on the death of ex-Constable M'Gee, which took place in twelve months after his forced retirement, at Manorhamilton, in August last, after an unblemished service of 28 years, his widow and nine young children were only allowed the sum of £273 from the Constabulary Force Fund; and whether, having regard to his service and that he was forced, without any assigned reason, to retire, and to his death having occurred so soon after his retirement, some further provision will be made by way of a grant or pension for the support of his widow and young weak family?
    The CHIEF SECRETARY for IRELAND (Mr. Birrell): The Inspector-General informs me that ex-Constable M'Gee died in August last, thirteen months after his retirement from the
    1910
    force. A sum of £273 was paid from the Constabulary Force Fund to his widow and seven of the children, who were within the rules of benefit. This grant was made strictly in accordance with the rules of the fund, and there is no power to increase it. There is no legal power to grant a pension to the widow of a man who had retired on pension.
    Mr. F. HALL (Dulwich)asked the Chief Secretary whether recruits joining the Royal Irish Constabulary for the first six months receive only 15s. a week; whether up to twenty-five years' service their pay amounts to £75 4s. per annum, or only 27s. a week; and, if so, whether he proposes and, if so, when to take the necessary steps to bring the pay of these men up to or nearly approximately the wages paid to constables in Liverpool, Manchester, and other large towns in the United Kingdom?
    Mr. BIRRELL: The rate of pay of a constable of Royal Irish Constabulary of less than six months' service is 15s. per week, and of fifteen years, but less than twenty-five years' service 27s. per week. The maximum rate of pay of a constable is 28s. per week, equal to £72 16s. per annum. With regard to the last paragraph of the question, I would refer the hon. Member to the terms of the Bill which I introduced last Thursday dealing with the matter, and which will shortly be circulated.
    Mr. HALL: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that only ten days ago he told me that the pay of an Irish constable during the first six months was £54 12s. a year?
    Mr. BIRRELL: No, I do not know that.
    Mr. HALL: Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will look into it?

    Poor Law Infirmaries (Nurses' Qualifications).
    Mr. ASTORasked the President of the Local Government Board whether all nurses employed in Poor Law infirmaries in the Metropolitan Asylums Board institutions and in municipal hospitals or sanatoria must, before being engaged, possess a nurse's certificate and be qualified nurses?
    The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. Herbert Lewis): The Local Government Board require that a person

    1911
    appointed to the office of superintendent nurse or head nurse in any institution to which the Poor Law Institutions (Nursing) Order, 1913, applies, shall possess a certificate of having undergone for three years at least a course of instruction in the medical and surgical wards of a hospital or infirmary being a training school for nurses and maintaining a resident physician or house surgeon, and shall be also a midwife certified under the Mid-wives Act, 1902. Evidence of training is also required of persons appointed as staff nurses or sisters at the Metropolitan Asylums Board's hospitals. Probationer nurses who are employed in Poor Law institutions are not required to have had previous nursing experience. The conditions of appointment of nurses in municipal hospitals and sanatoria are determined by the local authorities managing the institutions.
    Mr. ASTORasked whether any nurses are trained in Poor Law infirmaries, in the institutions belonging to the Metro politan Asylums Board, and in municipal hospitals or sanatoria; and, if so, will he state what authority lays down what course of training they must undergo before becoming qualified nurses?
    Mr. LEWIS: A large number of nurses are trained in Poor Law infirmaries. Training of a rather special character is also given in the institutions of the Metropolitan Asylums Board. I have no precise information as to the training given in municipal hospitals and sanatoria. The training necessary for a qualified nurse has not been prescribed.

    Poor Law Relief (Draft Orders).
    Mr. EDMUND HARVEYasked whether the Departmental Committee which prepared the draft orders regulating relief and Poor Law institutions is engaged in preparing any further draft orders other than one dealing with the casual poor; and whether in this case Parliament will be given some opportunity of discussing any such order before it is sanctioned?
    Mr. HERBERT LEWIS: The Departmental Committee referred to are continuing their work of consolidating, with amendments, the Poor Law Orders. On receiving a further Report from them, my right hon. Friend will give consideration to my hon. Friend's suggestion.

  ROYAL NAVY.

    H.M.S. "RECOVERY" (BELIEF OF CREW).
    Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKEasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is now in a position to say that similar arrangements have been made in regard to relieving the crew of His Majesty's ship "Recovery" as were made in regard to relieving the crew of His Majesty's ship "Resource"; and, if these arrangements have not been made, will he consider the advisability of inquiring into the matter with the object of placing the crews of the two vessels on an equality with regard to out-port service.?
    The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the ADMIRALTY (Dr. Macnamara): Instructions have been issued providing for similar arrangements in regard to relieving the crew of "Recovery" as were made in regard to relieving the crew of "Resource."

    H.M.S. "INVINCIBLE" (STEAM TRIALS).
    Mr. CHARLES DUNCANasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether steps are being taken to ensure that enough fully equipped boats are carried by His Majesty's ship "Invincible" to guarantee the safety of both the crew and the steaming party when on steam trials; and whether he can state the number of boats provided and their carrying capacity?
    Dr. MACNAMARA: The "Invincible" will carry her full complement of boats on her steam trials.

    ROYAL NAVAL COLLEGE (DARTMOUTH).
    Colonel BURNasked whether any decision had been arrived at as to granting an increase of pay to the members of the Civil staff of the Royal Naval College at Dartmouth?
    Dr. MACNAMARA: The question of the pay of certain Civil employés at the College is still under consideration.
    Colonel BURN: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that no change has been made in the pay since 1889 when civilians were substituted for service men?
    Dr. MACNAMARA: I am not aware of the precise date of the last revision of pay, but the present pay is under consideration.
    Colonel BURN: Will it be under consideration for eight or nine months?
    Dr. MACNAMARA: I think not.

GREAT BRITAIN AND GERMANY.
  THE PRIME MINISTER'S ANNOUNCEMENT.

    VIOLATION OF BELGIAN NEUTRALITY.
    ULTIMATUM TO GERMAN GOVERNMENT.
    Reply Demanded by Midnight (4th August).
    Mr. BONAR LAW: I wish to ask the Prime Minister whether he has any statement that he can now make to the House?
    The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Asquith): In conformity with the statement of policy made here by my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary yesterday, a telegram was early this morning sent by him to our Ambassador in Berlin. It was to this effect:—
    "The King of the Belgians has made an appeal to His Majesty the King for diplomatic intervention on behalf of Belgium. His Majesty's Government are also informed that the German Government has delivered to the Belgian Government a Note proposing friendly neutrality entailing free passage through Belgian territory and promising to maintain the independence and integrity of the Kingdom and its possessions, at the conclusion of peace, threatening in case of refusal to treat Belgium as an enemy. An answer was requested within twelve hours. We also understand that
    1926
    Belgium has categorically refused this as a flagrant violation of the law of nations. His Majesty's Government are bound to protest against this violation of a Treaty to which Germany is a party in common with themselves, and must request an assurance that the demand made upon Belgium may not be proceeded with, and that her neutrality will be respected by Germany. You should ask for an immediate reply."
    We received this morning from our Minister at Brussels the following telegram:—
    "German Minister has this morning addressed Note to the Belgian Minister for Foreign Affairs stating that as Belgian Government have declined the well-intended proposals submitted to them by the Imperial Government, the latter will, deeply to their regret, be compelled to carry out, if necessary by force of arms, the measures considered indispensable in view of the French menaces."
    Simultaneously—almost immediately afterwards—we received from the Belgian Legation here in London the following telegram:—
    " General staff announces that territory has been violated at Gemmenich (near Aix-la-Chappelle).
    "Subsequent information tended to show that the German force has penetrated still further into Belgian territory. We also received this morning from the German Ambassador here the telegram sent to him by the German Foreign Secretary, and communicated by the Ambassador to us. It is in these terms:—
    "Please dispel any mistrust that may subsist on the part of the British Government with regard to our intentions by repeating most positively formal assurance that, even in the case of armed conflict with Belgium, Germany will,

    1927
    under no pretence whatever, annex Belgian territory. Sincerity of this declaration is borne out by fact that we solemnly pledged our word to Holland strictly to respect her neutrality. It is obvious that we could not profitably annex Belgic territory without making, at the same time, territorial acquisitions at expense of Holland. Please impress upon Sir E. Grey that German Army could not be exposed to French attack across Belgium, which was planned according to absolutely unimpeachable information. Germany had consequently to disregard Belgic neutrality, it being for her a question of life or death to prevent French advance."
    I have to add this on behalf of His Majesty's Government: We cannot regard this as in any sense a satisfactory communication. We have, in reply to it, repeated the request we made last week to the German Government, that they should give us the same assurance in regard to Belgian neutrality as was given to us and to Belgium by France last week. We have asked that a reply to that request, and a satisfactory answer to the telegram of this morning—which I have read to the House—should be given before midnight.

ARMY RESERVE AND TERRITORIAL FORCE.
The PRIME MINISTERat the Bar, acquainted the House that he had a message from His Majesty, signed by His Majesty's own hand, and he presented the same to the House, and it was read by Mr. Speaker (all the Members of the House being uncovered), and it is as followeth:—
"GEORGE R.I.—The present state of public affairs in Europe constituting in the
1928
opinion of His Majesty a case of great emergency within the meaning of the Acts of Parliament in that behalf, His Majesty deems it proper to provide additional means for the Military Service, and therefore, in pursuance of these Acts, His Majesty has thought it right to communicate to the House of Commons that His Majesty is, by proclamation, about to order that the Army Reserve shall be called out on permanent service, that soldiers who would otherwise, be entitled, in pursuance of the terms of their enlistment, to be transferred to the Reserve, shall continue in Army Service for such period, not exceeding the period for which they might be required to serve if they were transferred to the Reserve and called out for permanent service, as to His Majesty may seem expedient, and that such directions as may seem necessary may be given for embodying the Territorial Force and for making such special arrangements as may be proper with regard to units or individuals whose services may be required in other than a military capacity."

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
Ordered, "That, on this day, notwithstanding anything in Standing Order No. 15, Supplementary Estimates for new services may be considered in Committee of Supply; that the Chairman shall, so soon as the House resolves itself into Committee of Supply, put forthwith the Question, with respect to each Class of the Civil Service Estimates, that the total amount of the Votes outstanding in that Class be granted for the services defined in the Class, and shall in like manner put severally the Questions that the total amounts of the Votes outstanding in the Estimates for the Navy, the Army, and the Revenue Departments be granted for the services defined in those Estimates; and that Business other than Business of Supply may be taken before Eleven of the clock."—[The Prime Minister.]
ORDERS OF THE DAY.

  SUPPLY.
  Considered in Committee.
  [Mr. WHITLEY in the Chair.]
  The CHAIRMAN, in pursuance of the Order of the House of this day, proceeded to put forthwith the Question with respect to each Class of the Civil Service Estimates, that the total amount of the Votes outstanding in that. Class be defined for the services denned in the Class, and in like manner to put severally the Questions that the total amount of the Votes outstanding in the Estimates for the Navy, the Army, and the Revenue Departments be granted for the services defined in those Estimates; and that Business other than Business of Supply may be taken before Eleven of the clock:—

  SUPPLY.

    Class I.
    1. "That a sum not exceeding £2,163,769 be granted to His Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1915, for expenditure with respect of the services included in Class I. of the Estimates for the Civil Service, namely:—

    £

    1.

    Royal Palaces

    38,270

    2.

    Osborne

    4,300

    3.

    Royal Parks and Pleasure Gardens

    70,200

    4.

    Houses of Parliament Buildings

    34,700

    5.

    Miscellaneous Legal Buildings, Great Britain

    26,300

    6.

    Art and Science Buildings, Great Britain

    69,200

    7.

    Diplomatic and Consular Buildings

    60,050

    8.

    Revenue Buildings

    460,900

    9.

    Insurance and Labour Exchange Buildings, Great Britain

    129,200

    10.

    Public Buildings, Great Britain

    491,950

    11.

    Surveys of the United Kingdom

    122,485

    12.

    Harbours under the Board of Trade

    24,532

    13.

    Peterhead Harbour

    22,000

    14.

    Rates on Government Property

    414,000

    Class II.
    2. "That a sum not exceeding £1,919,984 be granted to His Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the charges which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1915, for expenditure in respect of the services included in Class II. of the Estimates of the Civil Service, namely:—

    £

    1.

    House of Lords Offices

    10,987

    2.

    House of Commons

    209,448

    3.

    Treasury and Subordinate Departments

    63,263

    4.

    Home Office

    178,600

    7.

    Privy Council Office

    5,242

    8.

    Board of Trade

    232,550

    9.

    Mercantile Marine Services

    81,564

    10.

    Bankruptcy Department of the Board of Trade

    6

    11.

    Board of Agriculture and Fisheries

    144,027

    12.

    Charity Commission

    16,572

    13.

    Government Chemist

    13,792

    14.

    Civil Service Commission

    26,885

    15.

    Exchequer and Audit Department

    41,235

    16.

    Friendly Societies Registry

    10,358

    17.

    Local Government Board (including a Supplementary sum of £12,000)

    204,356

    18.

    Board of Control (Mental Deficiency), England

    91,419

    19.

    The Mint

    33

    20.

    National Debt Office

    8,056

    21.

    Public Record Office

    15,509

    22.

    Public Works Loan Commission

    26

    23.

    Registrar General's Office, England

    26,768

    25.

    Office of Woods, Forests, and Land Revenues

    12,974

    26.

    Office of Works and Public Buildings

    88,710

    27.

    Secret Service

    23,000

    Scotland.

    28.

    Secretary for Scotland's Office

    9,851

    30.

    Fishery Board

    15,497

    Class III.
    3. "That a sum not exceeding £2,546,529 be granted to His Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 1915, for expenditure with respect of the services included in Class III. of the Estimates for the Civil Service, namely:—

    £

    1.

    Law Charges

    37,179

    2.

    Miscellaneous Legal Expenses

    24,216

    3.

    Supreme Court of Judicature and Court of Criminal Appeal

    177,889

    4.

    Land Registry

    25,121

    5.

    Public Trustee

    5

    6.

    County Courts

    4,050

    7.

    Police, England and Wales

    58,186

    8.

    Prisons, England and the Colonies

    363,890

    9.

    Reformatory and Industrial Schools, Great Britain

    161,462

    10.

    Criminal Lunatic Asylums, England

    29,607

    Class IV.
    4. "That a sum not exceeding £12,996,191 be granted to His Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ended 31st March, 1915, for expenditure in respect of the services included in Class IV. of the Estimates for the Civil Service namely:—

    £

    1.

    Board of Education

    9,480,621

    1.

    Board of Education (Supplementary sum)

    515,000

    2.

    British Museum

    110,273

    3.

    National Gallery

    15,545

    4.

    National Portrait Gallery

    2,823

    5.

    Wallace Collection

    4,196

    6.

    Stafford House

    2,975

    7.

    Scientific Investigation, etc. (including a Supplementary sum of £4,000)

    59,697

    8.

    Universities and Colleges, Great Britain, and Intermediate Education, Wales

    204,800

    9.

    Public Education, Scotland

    1,491,868

    9.

    Public Education, Scotland (Supplementary sum)

    75,139

    10.

    National Galleries, Scotland

    4,183

    1933

    Ireland.

    £

    11.

    Public Education (including a Supplementary sum of £13,546)

    804,227

    Intermediate Education, Ireland

    40,000

    12.

    Endowed Schools Commissioners

    515

    13.

    National Gallery

    1,165

    14.

    Science and Art

    119,164

    15.

    Universities and Colleges

    64,000

    £12,996,191 "

    Class V.
    5. "That a sum not exceeding £714,903 be granted to His Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ended 31st March, 1915, for expenditure in respect of the services included in Class V. of the Estimates for the Civil Service, namely:—

    £

    1.

    Diplomatic and Consular Services

    448,041

    3.

    Telegraph Subsidies and Pacific Cable

    15,862

    4.

    Cyprus (Grant-in-Aid)

    1,000

    5.

    Persian Loan (including a Supplementary sum of £25,000)

    245,000

    6.

    Albanian Loan

    5,000

    £714,903 "

    Class VI.
    6. "That a sum not exceeding £487,181 be granted to His Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ended 31st March, 1915, for expenditure in respect of the services included in Class VI. of the Estimates for the Civil Service, namely:—

    £

    1.

    Superannuation and Retired Allowances

    423,367

    2.

    Miscellaneous Expenses, Great Britain

    6,261

    2.

    Miscellaneous Expenses, Great Britain (Supplementary sum)

    6,000

    3.

    Hospitals and Charities, Ireland

    863

    4.

    Temporary Commissions

    23,500

    Class VII.
    7. "That a sum not exceeding £14,745,750 be granted to His Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the charges which will come in course of payment during the year ended 31st March, 1915, for expenditure in respect of the Services included in Class VII. of the Estimates for the Civil Service, namely:—

    £

    1.

    Old Age Pensions

    7,710,000

    2.

    National Health Insurance, Joint Committee

    223,864

    2.

    National Health Insurance, Joint Committee (Supplementary sum)

    943,100

    3.

    National Health Insurance Commission (England)

    3,646,611

    4.

    National Health Insurance Commission (Wales)

    246,702

    5.

    National Health Insurance Commission (Scotland)

    500,815

    6.

    National Health Insurance Commission (Ireland)

    194,620

    7.

    Labour Exchanges and Unemployment Insurance

    738,123

    8.

    National Insurance Audit Department

    54,500

    9.

    Treatment of Tuberculosis (Special Grants)

    280,000

    9A

    Pathological Laboratories

    50,000

    10.

    Highlands and Islands (Medical Service) Board

    42,847

    11.

    Friendly Societies Deficiency

    14,568

    12.

    Expenses under the Unemployed Workmen Act, 1905

    100,000

    £14,745,750 "

    NAVY ESTIMATES, 1914–15.
    8. "That a sum not exceeding £32,570,00 be granted to His Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the charges which will come in course of payment during the year ended 31st March, 1915, for expenditure in respect of the Services included in the Navy Services, namely:—

    £

    3.

    Medical Establishments and Services

    292,100

    4.

    Civilians employed on Fleet Services

    115,300

    5.

    Educational Services

    175,000

    6.

    Scientific Services

    64,700

    7.

    Royal Naval Reserves

    489,900

    8.

    Sec. 1. Shipbuilding, Repairs, Maintenance, etc. Personnel

    3,989,800

    8.

    Sec. 2. Shipbuilding, Repairs, Maintenance, etc. Materiel

    7,087,400

    8.

    Sec. 3. Shipbuilding, Repairs, Maintenance, etc. Contract Work.

    14,287,800

    9.

    Naval Armaments

    5,544,300

    11.

    Miscellaneous Effective Services

    523,700

    £32,570,000 "

    ARMY ESTIMATES, 1914–15.
    9. "That a sum not exceeding £13,432,000 be granted to His Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ended the 31st March, 1915, for expenditure in respect of the Services included in the Army Estimates, namely:—

    £

    2.

    Medical Establishment, Pay, etc.

    437,000

    3.

    Special Reserve

    724,000

    4.

    Territorial Forces

    3,086,000

    5.

    Establishments for Military Education

    156,000

    6.

    Quartering, Transport, and Remounts

    1,732,000

    7.

    Supplies and Clothing

    4,388,000

    8.

    Ordnance Department Establishments and General Stores

    621,000

    9.

    Armaments, Engineer Stores, and Aviation

    1,732,000

    £

    11.

    Miscellaneous Effect Services

    59,000

    12.

    War Office

    457,000

    Ordnance Factories

    40,000

    £13,432,000 "

    REVENUE DEPARTMENTS ESTIMATES, 1914–15.
    10. "That a sum not exceeding £1,658,765 be granted to His Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ended the 31st March, 1915, for expenditure in respect of the Services included in the Estimates for the. Revenue Departments, namely;—

    £

    1.

    Customs and Excise

    1,538,765

    2.

    Inland Revenue (Supplementary sum)

    45,000

    3.

    Post Office (Supplementary sum)

    75,000

    £1,658,765 "

    Resolutions to be reported to-morrow (Wednesday).

WAYS AND MEANS.
Considered in Committee.
[Mr. WHITLEY in the Chair.]
Resolved, "That towards making good the Supply granted to His Majesty for the Service of the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1915, the sum of £104,642,055 be granted out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom."—[Mr. Gulland]
Resolution to be reported to-morrow (Wednesday.)

ANGLO-PERSIAN OIL COMPANY (ACQUISITION OF CAPITAL) BILL.
Considered in Committee and reported without amendment; to be read the third time To-morrow.
ISLE OF MAN (CUSTOMS) BILL.
Read a second time, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House for Tomorrow.—[Mr. Gulland.]
PUBLIC WORKS LOANS BILL.
Read a second time, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House for Tomorrow.—[Mr. Gulland.]

EXPIRING LAWS CONTINUANCE BILL.
Considered in Committee.
[Mr. WHITLEY in the Chair.]
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Schedule stand part of the
Bill."
Mr. EDMUND HARVEY: I want to ask a question. The Schedule contains the Unemployment Workmen's Act of 1905. We shall be soon foreseeing the need for special measures to deal with unemployment over and above this Bill, and as there is no possibility of amending this Act now, can we have an assurance from the President of the Local Government Board that the Road Boards have got work in hand and that the Development Commissioners have work in hand, in view of the probability which we fear there must be of very acute distress in the course of the winter?
The PRESIDENT of the LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. Herbert Samuel): I am in communication with both those Boards, and the situation, I think, is well in hand. It certainly will be necessary this year, as in previous years, to renew the Unemployment Workmen's Act. The extent to which the powers under that Act should be exercised depends upon the amount of money available for the services of the Distress Committee. The only legislative power is that which the House is now asked to pass. Any financial business will be for future legislation. I may add I am communicating with the Distress Committee and the town councils upon the matter.
Question, "That the Schedule stand part of the Bill," put, and agreed to.
Bill reported without Amendment; read the third time, and passed.

EDUCATION (PROVISION OF MEALS) BILL.
As amended (in the Standing Committee), considered.
Mr. SPEAKER: With regard to this Bill I have to observe that during the course of its passage through Committee a clause was added which the Committee had no authority to accept. The Bill as it passed this House does not deal with Ireland or Scotland, and only with England. During the course of its passage through Committee a Clause was inserted not extending this Bill to Ireland, but extending the provisions of the Act of 1906 to Ireland. The Committee, in my judgment, had no right or authority to insert that Clause without receiving an instruction, which instruction was not received. The more proper course to take now would be to recommit this Bill to the Standing Committee, in order that they might strike that Clause out. It appears to me the justice of the case would be met, and the convenience of all parties would be met, if now upon Report that particular Clause were struck out and the Title amended accordingly. If that commends itself to the House, I think it is the course we might take.
The PRESIDENT Of the BOARD of EDUCATION (Mr. Pease): In accordance with your ruling, Mr. Speaker, I beg to move the omission of Clause 3 (Application of Act of 1906 to Ireland).
Mr. JOHN REDMOND: If I have followed your ruling correctly, Mr. Speaker, the effect of taking the proceedings which you have indicated, would be to deprive Ireland of the benefits of the Clauses contained in this Bill. If it is possible to avoid that I ask the House to do so. If by recommitting the Bill or by any other course we could save Ireland's interest in this matter, I ask the House to do so.
Mr. ARTHUR HENDERSON: In view of the fact that it win at the request of the Nationalist party that Ireland was kept out, I do not think we should now risk the loss of this Bill.
Mr. JOHN REDMOND: I do not suggest risking the Bill at all.
Mr. HENDERSON: As this Session is likely to close without any further business in Committee, we do not want to risk the portion of the Bill which was in the original measure. I hope we are going to safeguard English interests. If the Bill is going to be sent back to the Committee, we would prefer to proceed with the Bill as originally introduced.
Mr. PEASE: Another course would be to allow this Bill to pass and apply it only to England as it was originally drafted and passed in Committee. Another Bill has been introduced by one of the Irish representatives which deals with the same subject in another form and in which the interests of Ireland are dealt with. If it is desired by the Irish Nationalist Party and the House that Bill might be regarded as a separate Bill and passed.
Mr. JOHN REDMOND: I might be allowed to say if that course were adopted it would entirely meet the views of my colleagues and myself. There is nothing in the distinctively Irish Bill which raises any controversial points any more than those which are contained in the English Bill which we tried to extend to Ireland. If the House will adopt the course suggested by the right hon. Gentleman, hon. Members will see that we do not wish to imperil the passage of this Bill. I think it is only fair that we should be indemnified in this matter, and I ask the Government to put the Irish Bill on the paper.
Mr. JAMES HOGGE: I think, Mr. Speaker, that you mentioned the word Scotland in connection with this Bill. So far as I understand the matter there is nothing in the Bill which applies to Scotland. I want to be quite clear on that point.
Mr. SPEAKER: I said the Bill did not apply to Scotland.
Sir EDWARD CARSON: I do not want in any wise to controvert the policy of the hon. and learned Member for Waterford, but I understand that there are many parts of Ireland where some objections to this Bill have been raised, and therefore it must not be taken that the other Bill can be put through as a non-controversial matter. There would be nothing controversial in the sense of anything political, but I understand there are other considerations.
Mr. T. P. O'CONNOR: As Chairman of the Committee which debated this Bill, perhaps I may be allowed to say that after some discussion there was a general agreement as to the desirability of this Bill being extended to Ireland. There were some objections raised, but they were met to the satisfaction of those hon. Members who were opposing the measures, and I think I may say with perfect accuracy
1940
that these Clauses were regarded as non-contentious. For that reason I hope the right hon. Gentleman will allow this Bill to be extended to Ireland which requires the provisions of this Bill as badly as England.
Lord ROBERT CECIL: I am anxious to avoid any misconception arising. If we reject this Clause and another Bill is introduced containing nothing but what is in this Clause would it then be possible for this House to accept it?
Mr. SPEAKER: The other Bill must contain one or two other clauses in order to facilitate the working of it, although the two Bills may be identical in principle.
The PRIME MINISTER: With regard to the last point I understand that the ground upon which you, Mr. Speaker, have held the clause in question not to be admissible is that it is outside the scope of this Bill. That being a purely technical reason I understand that there would be no objection to the clause being inserted in the proper place. If this clause is omitted I would consent to star the Irish Bill and give the right hon. Gentleman opposite (Sir E. Carson) an opportunity of raising a discussion on such points as he may think fit.
Sir E. CARSON: I am quite satisfied with that.
Sir F. BANBURY: I do not want to raise any objection to the passage of this Bill. I understand that the right hon. Gentleman has moved that the clause be omitted and the House will negative this clause. Will it not be against precedent that the same clause should be introduced again in another Bill?
Mr. SPEAKER: It will not be identically the same and it will not be the same Question that will be put from the Chair.
Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill," put, and negatived.
Mr. PEASE: I beg to move, to omit from the title the words "and to provide for the application of that Act to Ireland."
Question put, and agreed to. Title amended accordingly.
Bill reported, with an Amendment; read the third time, and passed.

METROPOLITAN POLICE (EMPLOYMENT IN SCOTLAND) (No. 2) BILL.
Read a second time, and committed to a Committee of the Whole House for Tomorrow.—[Mr. Gulland.]

PUBLIC WORKS LOANS [REMISSION OF DEBT].
Committee to consider of authorising the remission of certain Debts in pursuance of any Act of the present Session relating to Local Loans.
King's Recommendation signified [Mr. Gudland] to-morrow (Wednesday).

WAR RISKS.

  STATE INSURANCE SCHEME.
  Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER, pursuant to the Order of the House of 17th July, proposed the Question, "That this House do now adjourn."
  The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (Mr. Lloyd George): I will, with the indulgence of the House, now make the statement I promised yesterday to make regarding the very important question of insurance against war risks. The problem is how, having regard to the narrow limitations of the insurance market for war risks, and the difficulty of obtaining insurance of war risks on reasonable terms, or possibly any terms, in the course of a war in which this country is involved, we can secure that our vast overseas trade will go on, avoid an undue enhancement of prices or a curtailment of the supply of the food and materials of British industry, and ensure that the unemployment which is inevitable shall be restricted within the narrowest possible limits. This question is one which has received the earnest consideration of His Majesty's Government for several years. It has formed the subject of several enquiries from time to time. It was examined, not only by the Royal Commission, of which Lord Balfour of Burleigh was Chairman, but also subsequently by a special expert Committee of which I think the right hon.
  1942
  Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham (Mr. Chamberlain) was Chairman. This Committee, which reported in 1908, came to a conclusion adverse to the establishment of any State scheme for this purpose; but since the date of the Report—I think the right hon. Gentleman has come to the same conclusion—the changes, of conditions, both economic and strategic, which have taken place, have led us to the conclusion that the whole question needed re-examination in the light of present-day conditions. This re-examination was entrusted to a specially competent sub-Committee of the Committee of Imperial Defence.
  The Chairman of the Committee was Mr. Huth Jackson, and the other Members were Lord Inchcape, Sir Norman Hill, Sir Raymond Beck, and Mr. Arthur Lindley—an exceedingly competent body of experts, representing very important interests, and having a special knowledge of the subject which they were called upon to investigate. The reference to the Committee was to consider whether an administratively practicable scheme could be devised for submission to His Majesty's Government that will secure in the case of war that British commerce shall not be interrupted by reasons of inability to cover the war risks of ships and cargoes, and which will also ensure that the insurance rates shall not be so high as to cause an undue rise of prices. It was stipulated that any scheme prepared must be on the basis of reasonable contributions being paid by the owners of ships and cargoes towards the cost of insurance. It will be seen that the reference to the Committee did not include the question of policy which was reserved for the decision of His Majesty's Government. The document itself will, I think, be found in the Vote Office. Probably it is in the hands of Members at the present time. The result of the prolonged examination of the whole question for more than a year by Mr. Huth Jackson's Committee, was to produce a scheme which in their judgment, and in our judgment, complies with the conditions laid down in the reference, and this scheme has now been endorsed by His

  1943
  Majesty's Government as a matter of policy and as suited to the emergency in which we find ourselves.
  We propose, therefore, to give immediate effect to a scheme based upon that Report. We considered the matter very carefully on Saturday, and, after a prolonged conference which we had with various gentlemen who are particularly interested in this question, we came to the conclusion that it was desirable to put into immediate operation the Report of that Committee. Steps have already been taken for that purpose, and we shall be quite ready if the emergency arises. I have stated these facts to the House in order to emphasise the point that, although this scheme is promulgated in the midst of an emergency, it is not in any sense a panic scheme prepared in that emergency. The Committee sat for a very long time, and they considered it most carefully. I think all those who look at the scheme will find that it is not merely an exceedingly ingenious scheme, but it is a very admirable business scheme from every point of view. The Report of the Committee has been published, and is already in the hands of Members. I may say that among the changes which have taken place since 1908, and which have led us to revise the opinion that no scheme of this kind is required, perhaps the most important is the changed attitude of the insurance market itself. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, at that time they were very much opposed to any scheme of this kind, but since then they have completely changed their minds on the subject, because they have come to the conclusion that the resources at their disposal are really not adequate to meet all the risks which would be involved to our cargoes and ships in the case of war.
  Another important fact is that the great bulk of British overseas shipping has now grouped itself in a small number of big mutual insurance associations, which include among the benefits which they provide an indemnity for war risks incurred by ships afloat at the time of the outbreak
  1944
  of war up to the time they reached the nearest British or neutral port which is safe for the ship to lie in, and a few days beyond.
  These three great associations now include steamers up to a value of probably £90,000,000 or £100,000,000, which is perhaps about four-fifths of our British overseas shipping. It is evident that the form of mutual protection which has been adopted by these associations, although admirably adapted to protect the interests of ship-owners, adds greatly to the peril of interruption of our overseas trade on the outbreak of war, since the great bulk of British shipping is now encouraged by the terms of the Indemnity Associations not to keep the seas but to run for the nearest neutral or British port, for the simple reason that they do not cover war risks. What we want is a reason that will encourage shipping to keep the seas. That is vital in order that we should have an uninterrupted supply of food and material and that our trade should go on during the time of war as it does in the time of peace. We are perfectly convinced that by the powerful aid of the British Navy supplemented by a scheme of this kind, we can secure that vital object to our people.
  4.0 P.M.
  A third condition which, in our opinion, has changed since 1908 is the strategic situation. I do not propose this afternoon to give more than a broad outline of the scheme. But the House may like me to give just a summary of it, and I am prepared to do so, although each Member has got the document itself. It is a very lengthy and intricate document. I will deal with the question of hulls and cargoes separately, as the procedure followed is different in the two cases. In the case of ships, arrangements have been made with the existing clubs which deal exclusively with the question of hulls, or if necessary with other associations that may be formed. We do not propose to confine our operations merely to recognising the existing associations if other associations are set up, which are approved by the Government, and we shall recognise them in exactly the same way, on the mere

  1945
  condition that they shall extend their existing standard forms of policy to cover war risks up to the arrival of the vessel at the final port of the voyage which it is making when war breaks out, and for ten clear days after such arrival. Arrangements are also to be made with the same societies for the issue of similar policies on vessels starting their voyage after the war has broken out, and for this purpose the Government is to make an agreement with each of the societies, the principal conditions of which are the following:
  (1) The Government is to reinsure 80 per cent. of all these risks.
  I am dealing now with hulls because there are different conditions when we come to cargo.
  (2) In respect of voyages current on the outbreak of war, no premium is to be charged, but in respect of voyages begun after the outbreak of war, the State is to fix the insurance premium to be charged on a voyage basis, and is to receive 80 per cent. of such premium.
  If the voyage is current on the outbreak there will be no premium charged, but for voyages after the outbreak of war, a premium will be charged and 80 per cent. will be received by the Government. I want my hon. Friends to bear in mind that I am dealing with hulls, and that there are different sets of provisions when we come to cargoes.
  (3) The State is to have the right to fix and vary the premiums from time to time as may be necessary within a maximum of 5 per cent. and a minimum of 1 per cent., but a rate agreed for a specific voyage shall hold good if a vessel sails on that voyage within fourteen days of the completion of the insurance. On the other hand, if the starting of the voyage is delayed under the orders of the Admiralty, the assured shall have the option of cancelling the policy and of receiving back the premium paid.
  (4) The Associations are to run the remaining 20 per cent. of these risks, both before and after the outbreak of war, receiving for voyages after the outbreak

  1946
  of war 20 per cent. of the premiums fixed by the State.
  (5) All expenses of administration are to be borne by the clubs.
  (6) The claims are to be dealt with and settled by the Committee of the society upon which the Government is to be represented.
  The clubs, as I have said, include probably four-fifths of the shipping of this country, but there is nothing to prevent our concluding suitable arrangements mutatis mutandis with any great group of shipping that may be outside the clubs at present. Now I come to that part of the scheme which deals with the insurance of cargoes. Here we have not, as in the case of ships, existing mutual associations formed especially for the purpose of dealing with war risks through which it is possible to work. It is necessary, therefore, to set up an office for this purpose, and it is proposed that the work should be undertaken by a State Insurance Office to be opened in London. It has already been opened. We have already made the arrangements. The State Office will undertake to insure cargoes in British ships insured under the scheme which start on voyages after the outbreak of war, but it is not proposed that any steps should be taken with regard to cargoes already afloat at the time when the scheme takes effect. The rate of premium to be charged by the State for covering these risks is to be a flat one, irrespective of the voyage or the character of the cargo, insured. We considered this matter very carefully, and came to this decision after a great deal of discussion. The flat rate is capable of variation from time to time, within a maximum of five guineas per cent. and a minimum of one guinea per cent. It is proposed to set up a strong Advisory Board, consisting chiefly of persons versed in insurance matters, together with an official element which will have executive powers as regards the administration of the State Office, and will also advise as to the settling of rates, both on ships and on cargoes and other matters. I am glad to say that Mr. Douglas Owen, the well-known authority

  1947
  on war insurance, has placed his services at the disposal of the Government for this purpose, and associated with him there will be men of weight and representative character in the commercial and insurance world whose names—at present I am not in a position to give them—will command general confidence. For further details of the scheme, both as regards ships and cargoes, I would refer Members to the Report of the Committee and to the document which they have in their hands. There is one possible criticism which I think I ought to anticipate. It is that while the case for this scheme is the preservation of our supplies of food and raw material, it is not confined in any way to voyages of ships bringing food supplies and raw materials to the United Kingdom. I think that is very vital. It is vital that British shipping in every part of the world should be protected, and a little reflection will show that, in order to maintain the stream of supplies of necessaries for our population, we have to keep going the whole mechanism of overseas trade. It may seem, at first sight, to matter very little whether a British ship makes a voyage from New York to Buenos Ayres or not, but unless the ship makes that voyage it will not be available to bring food from Buenos Ayres to this country. We therefore felt bound to endorse the conclusion of the Committee, that there is no valid distinction to be made in respect cither of the nature of the cargo or of the voyages to be covered by the scheme.
  It only remains to say a word as to the method of procedure. We are advised that legally there is no necessity to obtain legislative sanction in advance before entering into the arrangements contemplated by the scheme, although it will undoubtedly be necessary to come to Parliament for the necessary funds, and, possibly, some validating legislation may hereafter be necessary in respect of certain points. In normal circumstances I need hardly say that we should, as a matter of policy, have thought it our duty to lay the proposals in a Bill before Parliament,
  1948
  before embarking on so novel and unprecedented a course as that we propose. But the emergency in which we find ourselves is itself unprecedented, and we therefore feel justified in appealing to the House to authorise us to proceed in this matter at once, in advance of any legislative and financial sanctions that may hereafter be required. It is not intended that any part of the scheme shall take-actual effect, unless and until notice to that effect has been given to the public. The organisation of the Improvised Insurance bureau which is being undertaken by the Board of Trade will, of course, involve a heavy piece of administrative work of an unaccustomed kind. We, cannot promise that the whole scheme will work without a hitch on the first opening of the bureau. We can only do our best in that respect. The administration is in very able hands, and it is the first experiment of the kind undertaken by the State. We hope and pray that the necessity for opening it may never arrive, but should the necessity arise, we hope and believe that by this scheme we shall be able to do something to relieve the anxiety of the mercantile and shipping world, and to ensure the continuity, in spite of every emergency, of the free flow of food and raw material to the population of this country.
  Mr. CHAMBERLAIN: I believe that the statement which has just been made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be received with satisfaction in all quarters of the House and in the country. The right hon. Gentleman alluded to a Committee over which I presided at the request of the present Government in the years 1307–8. and to the adverse Report which that Committee made. I entirely agree with all the right hon. Gentleman has said that the most material factors in the situation have changed since, and I, some time ago, expressed my opinion publicly and to the Government that the whole subject ought to be re-opened, and that the decision ought not to be prejudiced by the Report which my Committee made. At a later date. I had an opportunity of seeing Mr. Huth Jackson, with the consent of the Government, and discussing

  1949
  the proposals of his Committee with him, and I then intimated to the Government, through him, that I thought a case was made out for such a scheme, and that the scheme in its main features was a practical and good one. I do not want to make a speech on the subject, for I agree, and can only say that I agree with all that the Chancellor of the Exchequer has said, and with his explanation of the situation. But I would like to add this, that I myself and my Friends with whom I have been consulting, are of opinion that the danger to this country is not so much of an actual scarcity of food or raw material as of the fear of scarcity causing a panic and raising prices. In my opinion, with a Navy able to discharge its duty, the pressure comes at the first moment. As time goes on the situation will be relieved, and we shall find supplies pouring in in great quantities from across the Atlantic, and there is no reason to suppose that we shall have to suffer any alarming scarcity. But there is every reason for preventing panic at the beginning, for allaying apprehensions, and for making the path of commerce and of industry as smooth as it can be made, so as to prevent all preventive hardships and suffering to any class of the community. I believe that the scheme which the right hon. Gentleman has announced will go far to effect that result.
  Mr. ARTHUR HENDERSON: I am not going to take up the time of the House in making any reference whatsoever to the scheme that has been outlined by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. So far as I understand it, it seems excellent for the purpose, and I think it is absolutely essential. I should like, however, to ask the right hon. Gentleman, or the Prime Minister, whether the Government are in a position to report as to what steps are likely to be taken after these cargoes, which we are going to protect, have reached this country, and after all the machinery of this bureau has been put into operation. We must all be aware of the fact that, before many days are over, there will be thousands and tens of
  1950
  thousands of people in this country, especially if prices rise, who will be reduced to veritable starvation. An hon. Member says "No, no!" Anybody who says "No, no," does not know how the poor of this country live. Hon. Members do not know how the poor of this country have to live. They live, as it were, from day to day. Trade is bound to be affected, and if it is essential, as I believe it is essential, to look after the interests of shipping in order that we may have the cargoes landed in our own country, and thereby have a supply of food which money can buy, I want to ask whether we are not as a House equally under an obligation to take the organisation a step further? We may have thousands of people who may be brought into a condition of starvation or semi-starvation through no fault of their own, because they will be compulsorily unemployed. The casual worker may have no employment even to enable him to get the few days' wages that do come in occasionally. I want to make the appeal now while we are on this subject, because I am apprehensive that the House will close in a day or two, and may be closed for some time. I think, therefore, we are under the obligation to look at this issue at the moment, and I should like to make a strong appeal to the Prime Minister to give us some hope that this aspect of this great and important question will receive serious consideration, and that, before the House rises, some scheme of organisation to deal with the starving people will be intimated to the House.
  Mr. STANLEY WILSON: That has been done already.
  Mr. A. HENDERSON: I am told it has been done already. I have sat through all the sittings of the House, and I have not heard it. I shall withdraw everything I have said if the Prime Minister can intimate to me the scheme that somebody has suggested.
  Mr. LLOYD GEORGE: I do not know whether my hon. Friend was here last night when that question was put to me

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  from the Bench behind him, and when I certainly stated that this was a question which was now engaging the attention of the Government, and had been for some days.
  Mr. A. HENDERSON: The question I am now asking, in view of the fact that the House is going to rise, is: Will he promise a statement on the subject before this part of the Session does close?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I may say, in response to the appeal of my hon. Friend, that the Government are looking on all these matters as more or less interdependent. Yesterday we obtained the assent of the House to a Bill which will, I believe, set free our produce markets from an incubus and from fetters from which, if the law of the land remains as it was, very serious results might have flowed, and more to the working classes than any other class of the community. We have to-day gone a step further, and, in the measure which the Chancellor of the Exchequer has outlined, we are providing the best security which long and deliberate consideration can suggest for the free influx from all quarters of the earth of food and material upon which our population and industry depend. I quite agree with my hon. Friend that these two steps, important as they are, would not be adequate to the emergency which, unhappily, we have now to contemplate, unless we went one step further and contemplated the problem of distribution. In regard to that, I can assure him that it has been engaging our most anxious attention for days past. I hope, I do not say tomorrow, but in the course of the next two or three days, to submit to the House proposals in regard to that matter which will complete the scheme.
  Lord CHARLES BERESFORD: What the Prime Minister has told us is very satisfactory. We recognise that it is a most difficult problem, because we have no machinery for distribution at this moment. It is easier to get food in than it will be to distribute it. However, after the Prime
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  Minister has assured us that he is looking into that matter, I will submit no further remarks upon it except to endorse the remarks of the hon. Member opposite (Mr. A. Henderson). I desire to put one or two questions to the Prime Minister. Shall we start with the fact that coal and food are contraband of war? It makes the problem very difficult if we discover they are contraband afterwards. It would be much wiser for us to make our arrangements on the basis that food and coal will be contraband. I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for West Birmingham (Mr. Chamberlain), that if we go to war there will be a tremendous gap for the reason that the shipper—not the shipowner—is the most nervous man in the country. From the time he gets his cargo on board until he receives a telegram stating its arrival, he is always in and out of Lloyd's. For that special reason it is very important that the distribution scheme should be thoroughly organised at once. I would also ask the Prime Minister a question with regard to neutrals. We have a large number of neutrals that bring food and raw material to this country. Do they come under this insurance proposal—I mean ships belonging to neutral Powers? [HON. MEMBERS: "No, only British ships."] Another question I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman is, if it is elected to start with food as contraband of war, what steps shall we take in the Mediterranean with those vessels which are conveying food in large quantities to Italy, because they will be able to supply Austria and Germany if we go to war. For that reason, we ought to decide now whether or not food and coal are contraband of war. It will make a very serious difference to us if we go to war, whether food and coal are declared contraband or not.
  It being half an hour after the conclusion of Government Business, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House, without Question put, pursuant to the Order of the House of 17th July.
  Adjourned accordingly at Twenty-two minutes after Four o'clock.