§ (1) The Irish Parliament shall be summoned to meet on the first Tuesday in September, nineteen hundred and thirteen, and the first election of members of the Irish House of Commons shall be held at such time before that day as may be fixed by His Majesty by Order in Council made for the purpose of the transitory provisions of this Act.
§ (2) Upon the first meeting of the Irish Parliament, the members returned by con- 490 stituencies in Ireland to serve in the Parliament of the United Kingdom and then sitting in that Parliament shall vacate their seats, and writs shall, as soon as conveniently may be, be issued by the Lord Chancellor of Ireland for the purpose of holding an election of members to serve in the Parliament of the United Kingdom for the constituencies mentioned in the Second Part of the First Schedule to this Act.
§ (3) Subject to the provisions of this Act, all existing election laws relating to the Commons House of Parliament of the United Kingdom and the members thereof shall, so far as applicable, extend to the Irish House of Commons and the members thereof; but those election laws may, except as provided by this Act, be altered by Irish Act.
§ His Majesty may by Order in Council make such provisions as may appear to him necessary or proper for making any provisions of the election laws applicable to elections of members of the Irish House of Commons.
§ (4) The Lord Lieutenant shall determine by lot which of the first Senators are to retire in the second, fourth, and sixth year and the term of office of those Senators shall be reduced accordingly.
§ Amendment proposed: To leave out Sub-section (1).—[Sir Rufus Isaacs.]
§ Question again proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLI invite the earnest attention of such Members of the Committee as take an interest in this Bill to the extraordinary and difficult position at which we have arrived in the course of this discussion. As the result of the Amendment moved by the right hon. Gentleman, Clause 46 will, when amended, cause the machinery to go out of gear, and will produce, if the Bill becomes an Act,. a complete state of chaos. At the same time I would point out to the Committee that the discussions last night have conclusively established the truth of two main contentions that have been consistently urged against this Bill upon this side of the House. In the first place, we have always contended that the severe and drastic guillotine restrictions under which we have to discuss this Bill indicate a deliberate and preconceived determination on the part of His Majesty's Government that there should and would be no free 491 discussion of this Bill. As a matter of fact, I do not think anyone will deny that even before this Bill was introduced into this House, its provisions had been agreed upon between the right hon. Gentlemen opposite, and hon. Members below the Gangway from Ireland. The right hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister shakes his head at that, but I will give him an authority which I do not think any human being will attempt to contradict. So far back as 26th April of the present year, that was before this Bill was introduced into the House of Commons at all, the hon. Member for the Scotland Division of Liverpool (Mr. T. P. O'Connor) sent a telegram to the "Chicago Tribune" which contained this passage, which I will read exactly as it was cabled:
Redmond. Dillon, and myself met Asquith and Samuel for the last time on Friday to discuss some of the final small details of the Measure, and both parties were full of equally hearty congratulations to each other for the splendid triumph of their common cause and common fortunes,[HON. MEMBERS: "Hear, hear."] I welcome those cheers, because they indicate the truth of the assertion that I make, that, before ever this Bill was introduced into this House of Commons, it had assumed a complete triumph in the ultimate form in which it was definitely settled at this interesting meeting which took place between the hon. and right hon. Gentlemen I have named. The date of that message is 26th April, 1912.
§ The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Asquith)Long after the Bill was introduced.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLIf it was long after the Bill was introduced it only indicates that the entire Committee stage has been a farce, and a farce to the knowledge of the right hon. Gentleman, because we have the express statement, with which apparently the right hon. Gentleman now agrees and which he endorses, that, before ever the Committee stage was reached, even down to minute details, there had been a final agreement on the contents of the Bill made between the right hon. Gentleman and hon. Members below the Gangway. The next contention on which we have always insisted is that the sole and only object of the ridiculous proceeding that we pretend to go through here night after night, tramping through the Lobbies, and exposing, not only ourselves, but the whole life and traditions of Parliament to degradation and humiliation.
§ The CHAIRMANWill the right hon. and learned Gentleman tell me how this arises on the Amendment1? So far, it would appear not to be permissible at this point, though it may arise at a later stage of the Bill.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLMay I call your attention to the fact, Sir. that we are now discussing one of the most vital and important Clauses in connection with the whole Bill, namely, the question of the date or dates at which this Act is to come into operation? When we sought to move Amendments with a view to elucidating the question on Clause? of the Bill, we got a distinct pledge from the Prime Minister that we would have an opportunity for full and free discussion of this measure. When the opportunity for full and free discussion came, how was it dealt with? We were to have had it under this very Clause 42, but every word relating to the appointed day in that Clause is to be eliminated by the Amendment which the Chief Secretary is moving, with the result that this promised freedom of discussion is to take place on Clause 46. which will be rushed through to-night in conjunction with half a dozen other Clauses, without giving the slightest opportunity for discussion.
§ The CHAIRMANTo make the matter quite clear, I would point out that under the Amendment now before the Committee and moved by the Government to leave out Sub-section (1) of Clause 42, the question T have put to the Committee is: "That Sub-section (1) stand part of the Clause," and therefore clearly it is relevant to discuss any matter in the Sub-section as it now exists, namely, the time between the passing of the Act and the appointed day, or the date when the Act is to come into operation. Within these limits, as I said some time ago, of course the discussion would be quite free, but it must be within those limits, and based on the question of what time is to elapse between the passing of the Act and the appointed day.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLWith great respect, Sir, that is only a part of the case. The Clause which the Amendment seeks to amend is Clause 46. That does not deal with merely one appointed day, and it raises a very important and difficult question as to the number of appointed days. We are not at liberty to move Amendments even if we had Amendments on the Paper, and it is plain that we will have no time for discussion; therefore, I submit that in 493 fulfilment of the promise repeatedly given here, and to which you yourself, Sir, were a party, we ought to be allowed to discuss the whole question of the appointed day on this Amendment.
§ The CHAIRMANOh, yes, that is so. The right hon. Gentleman may certainly discuss along with this Amendment the proposals of the Government to amend Clause 46. They naturally form one whole, and the right hon. Gentleman is quite in order in discussing that part of Clause 46 in connection with the present Amendment.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLIt is very difficult, but I shall do my best, Sir, to keep within the four corners of your ruling. I want especially to call attention to the discussion which took place last night, and also to the obvious points and arguments which arise upon the position in which the Committee now find themselves placed in regard to the question of the appointed day. I wish to make out the point that the object of the Government is to get this Bill through in any shape and leave succeeding generations to correct the blots; in other words, their only interest is to fulfil their pledge and promise to hon. Gentlemen below the Gangway. Even a mere cursory examination of the provisions of this Bill will satisfy any person that almost every line of it, certainly every Clause, will be a gold mine for litigation, and it will take years of judicial decisions, at the expense of many thousands of pounds, to bring its machinery into working order; and that is made particularly plain by the extraordinary condition of confusion and complication into which the Government have brought this question of dates. When the Act is to come into operation, is distinct from the date of the passing of the Act. The way it stands, as I gather, is this: You omit altogether from Clause 42, as the result of the Amendment of the right hon. Gentleman, all reference in that Clause to any provisions for fixing the date for the appointed day, or for the Act to come into operation, and the sole and only provision that will regulate that will then be Clause 46. How will Clause 46 read when amended? I invite the attention of the Committee to this because I believe I will demonstrate that if this Clause 46 is to be passed with the Amendment proposed by the right hon. Gentleman, the whole thing will be left in such a state of confusion and contradiction as to defy the most subtle 494 intellect, ever to bring it into successful operation. It will run in this way:—
The appointed day for the purposes of this Act shall be the first Tuesday in the eighth month after the month in which this Act is passed.That plainly involves this, and there will be no contradiction about the matter, that this Parliament may not be set up until after the expiration of at least fourteen months from the date of the passing of the Act, because the appointed day is to be in the eighth month, and there is power to extend that, so that you are giving a total time to work upon, and this was explained by the right hon. Gentleman the Attorney-General yesterday, of fourteen months between the date of the passing of the Act and the date at which the Parliament may or may not be set up. What is going to happen in the interval?
§ The PRIME MINISTERFifteen months.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLI was putting it at fourteen months; it might be a little short of fifteen months, and I said fourteen in order to be within the mark. I will take it at fifteen, which, of course, makes my case stronger. What is to happen in the interval? Let us see how the matter stands. I do not want to go over the ground which was covered in the absence of the Prime Minister, whose absence I do not complain of, as I am sure he was otherwise busily occupied, but in his absence last night there was a very elaborate and able criticism of these particular provisions by the hon. and learned Member for St. Pancras (Mr. Cassel). He went very fully through these points and showed that you had left the whole question as to what portions of your Bill were to come into operation at the date of the passing of the Act, as distinguished from the appointed day, in a wholly vague and illusory condition. Of course, every lawyer knows that if nothing is said in an Act of Parliament as to the time at which any particular provision is to come into operation, it will come into operation at the date of the passing of the Act. The extraordinary thing you have done here is this: While it is plain, and you say so in express terms, that many of its provisions are to come into operation at the date of the passing of the Act, as regards a great many others you leave the date only to be inferred by that legal inference; while as regards some you retain the right to have powers within appointed days for their coming into 495 effect. See what the effect of that will be; let me take a few illustrations.
Assume that you have no Parliament until twelve months after the date of the passing of the Act—that date is as good as any other for the purposes of my argument—and it is within the fifteen months, then what is to happen in the meantime? You have by your Bill in express terms transferred a number of present Imperial services to Ireland under the denomination of Irish services; you have transferred them as from the date of the passing of the Act, because, as I have said, you have fixed no time at which they are to be transferred, and, therefore, under the ordinary legal inference that occurs at the time that the Act is passed.
§ The PRIME MINISTERmade an observation which was inaudible.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLThat is plain, and I thought the right hon. Gentleman was in agreement with me. This point was admitted by the right hon. Gentleman the Attorney-General yesterday, and I will tell you the explanation he gave, and a very remarkable one. He gave one explanation one minute and contradicted it a few minutes afterwards. What will happen then? Who are going to take charge of these Irish services? Who will be responsible for them? Let me point out some other matters that the Irish Executive will be bound to take charge of on the day this Act passes. They will be bound to take charge of the judiciary, because your Bill expressly provides that "from and after the date of the passing of this Act" the judiciary are to be appointed by the Irish Executive or by the Lord Lieutenant on their advice. Let me give a few more illustrations of* what happens immediately after the Act passes. Clause 4 is the Clause setting up an Executive, and a very important Clause in this connection. I will deal with it in another connection in a few minutes. Let me take Clause 14, a very important Financial Clause which arranges that the Transferred Sum is to be ascertained and paid over at the date of the passing of the Act—that is to say, before you have got an Exchequer set up to receive it or before you have got an Executive to administer it—but in the express terms of Clause 14 that Transferred Sum is to be ascertained at the time of the passing of this Act, and, the previous Section says, is to be transferred to the Irish Exchequer.
§ The PRIME MINISTERNot at that date.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLI am not saying anything about dates. If the right hon. Gentleman had been here last night and heard the Attorney-General he would have known the necessity of having this matter cleared up, and he would have seen that the views which he at present appears to hold are not in accordance with those of his colleagues. Let me call attention to what Clause 14, Sub-section (2), provides:—
The proceeds of all taxes levied in Ireland, whether under the authority of the Parliament of the United Kingdom or of the Irish Parliament, shall be paid into the Exchequer of the, United Kingdom, but subject as hereinafter provided there shall be charged on and paid out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom…to the Irish Exchequer, a sum…The right hon. Gentleman says it does not say when it has to be paid. I again remind him of the elementary legal principle that where there is nothing put in and where no date is specified in the Act of Parliament for anything to happen, the assumption is it is to happen at the date of the passing of the Act. That is borne out in this case, because the sum to be paid is to be ascertained at the date of the passing of the Act, and if it is to be ascertained, why is it not to be paid over? Who is to keep it? What is to be done with it? Is the Exchequer to fiddle with it or what is to become of it? But who is to get it? Is it Irish money to be paid to the Irish Exchequer, and is it to be impounded by the Imperial Exchequer? It is perfectly plain from the very language of their Bill, in the absence of any other date, that the date of the transfer is to be and must be the date of the passing of the Act. Let us come to a few more Clauses. Clause 27 I have already dealt with—that is, the Clause which makes the Lord Lieutenant fill any vacancies in the judicial bench "after the passing of this Act." Those words were put in by an Amendment of the Government, and, therefore, it is perfectly plain that the very day the Act passes, if there was a vacancy the following day, it is to be filled by the Lord Lieutenant under this Act.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI agree.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLI do not think there is much importance in that agreement; you could hardly contravene the 497 express language of your own Bill when it takes the shape of an Amendment moved by yourselves. We come now to Clause 28, and what is the next thing that is to happen the very day the Act passes? Irish litigants are going to be deprived of the right to have appeals heard by the Appeal Tribunal of the House of Lords, and from the date of the passing of the Act all those appeals are to go to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council. I say that because, in the absence of any particular date, the legal principle again operates, and that will result as a necessary consequence after the passing of this Act. I now come back to Clause 4, and here is where the absurdity of the position becomes very, very startling indeed. You hand over your Irish services from the date of the passing of the Act, and you impose obligations of various kinds in connection with the administration of Ireland, and who are you going to put them upon? Of course the Irish Executive, and when this was pointed out by the right hon. Gentleman the Attorney-General yesterday, and when the hon. and learned Member for St. Pancras said, "Oh, yes, you are handing over duties to an Executive, but you cannot call your Executive into being until after your Parliament has met," what was the answer of the Attorney-General? In an interruption of the hon. and learned Member for St. Pancras he said:—
I have said that there must be an Executive at once."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 10th December 1912, col. 876.]That was his interruption, and when he came to make his speech he said the very opposite. Here is what he said in his speech:—You have a situation created under this Bill under which to get Members of Parliament elected, and from the Members of Parliament you select your Executive, and, having got your Executive, you can set up the various Departments."—[OFFICIAL "REPORT, 10th December, 1912, col. 393.]So that by way of interruption the right hon. Gentleman informed the hon. and learned Member for St. Pancras that they would not wait for a Parliament to set up an Executive, but that the Executive was going to be set up at once, and when he came to reply he said the Executive would only be set up after you have got your Parliament and the Executive would be elected, and that that is the object and intention of the Bill is plain, because if you look at Clause 4 there is this very remarkable provision in it:—No such person shall hold office as an Irish Minister for a longer period than six months unless he is or becomes a 498 member of one of the Houses of the Irish Parliament.That plainly indicates that you only contemplated an Irish Executive selected from and created out of the House of Commons, but, at any rate, the thing was put, as I have said, beyond doubt by the right hon. Gentleman yesterday in his speech, because he distinctly used the language I have quoted, and the meaning of it is as, plain as words can make one's meaning plain. What a grotesque position that will be! Take it either way, I do not care which way it is taken. Supposing that the right hon. Gentleman the Attorney-General was right in his first view, namely, that the Executive would be created the moment the Act passed, to what Parliament would that Executive be responsible? Under the frame of the Bill there may be no Parliament for fifteen months, and meanwhile you are going to expose the people in Ireland, including the loyal community there who dislike and detest this Bill in every particular, to the control and supremacy of an Irish Executive which for fifteen months may have no Parliament to which it is responsible. You cannot have it both ways; you cannot insert the power in this Bill to postpone the election of your Parliament for fifteen months, and at the same time say that you can set up an Executive at once without admitting that that means you can have an Executive in office for fifteen months regulating and controlling the destinies of Ireland with no Parliament even that they can be made answerable to. That is unprecedented in the history of any free people. It is unprecedented that you should take powers, as you are doing in this Bill, to set up an Executive which may remain in power and in office uncontrolled and unfettered for fifteen months, without any Parliament being in existence in which explanations may be asked or received as to its conduct of affairs.Suppose the right hon. Gentleman was right, and that you cannot have an Executive until you have a Parliament. The position is still more ridiculous, because in the meantime you have transferred your services, and you are bound to transfer to something or to somebody this Transferred Sum. At the same time the control of the judiciary passes over, and somebody has to do the other duties that pass over to Ireland the moment the Bill is passed, without waiting for the appointed day, the moment it receives the Royal Assent. Then, when the right hon. Gentleman was 499 hard pressed, he did that which we have seen is so common here in the course of these Debates. Some of his colleagues from behind thrust a copy of an Act of Parliament into his hands, and he then said, "You will find an analogy if you look at the Education Act of 1902." I venture to say that he never read that Act before he quoted it or he never would have quoted it, because a stronger condemnation of the course which is adopted in this Bill it is impossible to conceive. If you refer to that Clause in the Bill of 1902 you will find that it is quite a sensible Clause. It says:—
Except where otherwise expressly provided, the date of the passing of the Act is to be the appointed day.Everybody can understand that. It is intelligent and it is legal, and everybody knows what it means. It means that unless the Act says something to the contrary, the appointed day is to be the date of the passing of the Act, and the date of the passing of the Act is vice versâ to be the appointed day. But you do not find anything of that kind here. You do not find the date of the passing of the Act and then find words preventing portions of the Act coming into operation until an appointed day. You do not find the provisions which were contained in the Education Act. That was a very intelligible thing to do. But here you do not find any such provision as that to which the right hon. Gentleman referred. You find the very opposite. You leave a variety of these things to come into operation by legal inference, by an irresistible inference I admit, on the date of the passing of the Act. You have left others to come into operation by express provision on the date of the passing of the Act. But you have held up certain undefined things, with power to appoint clays, and you have not even defined the things for which you are going to have particular appointed days. I defy anyone who reads this Bill to give a goor reason for his opinion as to what particular provisions the Government propose should be held up until the appointed day. The whole thing is a mass of contradiction and confusion, and I defy anyone to give it any intelligent or plausible meaning. I do not complain of the remarkable contradiction between the two statements of the Attorney-General. He first said, "An Executive will be set up the moment the Act is passed," and his next statement was, "You cannot have an 500 Executive until you get your Parliament, because you must choose your Executive from it."
§ The ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Sir Rufus Isaacs)I do not admit there is any contradiction.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLI have already read the exact words. The first interruption of the right hon. Gentleman was made in reply to the hon. Member for St. Pancras, who pointed out that you were imposing duties upon an Executive without power to create an Executive, and that the Executive would not be created until after the appointed day. Then the right hon. Gentleman interrupted and in effect said, "We propose that the Executive should be appointed immediately after the passing of the Act." In column 376 of the OFFICIAL REPORT the right hon. Gentleman says:—
I have said that there must be an Executive at once.Of course he was driven to say that when the absurdity of the position was pointed out. Then he made this admission. The Member for St. Pancras had put him on the other horn of a dilemma, and had said, "If you are going to have an Executive at once, are you going to have an Executive that may remain in office for fifteen months without any Parliament to which it is responsible?" Upon that, the right hon. Gentleman made a complete right-about-face. I am now at column 393. He said:—Yon have a situation created in which yon get Members of Parliament elected, and from the Members of Parliament yon select your Executive, and having got your Executive, yon can set up your various Departments.I think no one can suggest that I have not been perfectly explicit in pointing out the statements he made and what they clearly and precisely conveyed. At least we must assume that they conveyed this, if language has any meaning, and if the meaning is that which the words plainly bear out. These are some of the extraordinary results and anomalies which flow from this business. I next come to the Joint Exchequer Board. When is it to be set up? It is the Board, remember, which has to get the Transferred Sum. I cannot find any date for the setting up of the Exchequer Board. I have no doubt we will get this ridiculous and absurd argument from the Attorney-General, that you can rely upon Orders in Council to do these things. That is ludicrous because there is no Order in Council that can have 501 power to set up a Joint Exchequer Board if the legal inference is inevitable from the phrasing of the Act itself. If the Exchequer Board is set up the moment the Act is passed, you cannot override that by an Order in Council. Let me put it in this way. Supposing that your Bill said the Exchequer Board should be set up from the date of the Bill passing into law. You cannot override that by an Order in Council. It is perfectly plain you cannot. In the absence of any statement to the contrary, your Exchequer Board is just as much bound to be set up the day the Bill passes as if the Bill said so in express terms, and therefore you have no more power by an Order in Council to do these things than you would have to abolish this present House of Commons.Then again if the Joint Exchequer Board is not to be set up on the appointed day, what becomes of the Transferred Sum? Is it like Mahomet's coffin to be hanging between England and Ireland. Is it to be in the pockets of the Treasury here, or in the pockets of the non-existing Treasury in Ireland? The thing is put in a perfect quagmire of confusion. Now there are many other illustrations of my case in very many of these provisions, but I come back now to the extraordinary provision in this Clause 46 as regards the appointed day in that place, as to the first election of the Irish House of Commons. It is perfectly plain if you look at the framing of this Bill that there must be one appointed day under Clause 1. That is to say an appointed day upon which Ireland will be given power to have a Parliament of her own. Then, again, the day of the meeting of this Parliament must be another appointed day. You must get one appointed day upon which Ireland will have the power to have a Parliament. That is given in Clause 1, and having got that, you must have another appointed day for the meeting of that Parliament, and that is to be found in Clause 46: and that is the reason, I presume, why the Government have taken power to do these extraordinary things, and have found it necessary to have one appointed day for one thing and a wholly different appointed day for another thing. But that being so, what is to happen to the 103 and the forty-two Members. The forty-two Members are to be elected on the appointed day for having a Parliament. The 103 Members are not to leave this House until the appointed day for the meeting of Parlia- 502 ment in Ireland. I hope the Prime Minister will deal with this. It is a point in which there is absolute confusion. I am referring to the distinction there is between the appointed day on which Ireland is to have liberty, to have a Parliament under Clause 1, and the appointed day which imposes a term under which this Parliament is to meet. Will he toll us why these two different dates are imposed. When you come to provide for the election of the forty-two new Irish Members, are they to be elected on the first of those appointed days? But the 103 Irish Members are not to leave this House until the day fixed for the meeting of the Irish Parliament, and if this has any purpose or meaning at all, or any purpose which can be understood, it seems to me that it is the desire of hon. Gentlemen opposite to have the use of these eighty-six Members as long as possible, so that they may be utilised for the carrying through of their programme after they have got rid of the Home Rule question. It seems to me that is the ulterior motive. What is at the back and behind all this. The right hon. Gentleman the Attorney-General said that this was a mere trivial matter; that the whole of Clause 42 was a trivial matter. It was as clear as mud. With that delightful manner and gracious courtesy which we all recognise and appreciate, he skimmed round and carefully avoided the thin ice, and he was quite successful in confusing the matter which, he said, was a trivial matter.
Of course, everybody knows what is the motive behind all these manœuvres and these complicated arrangements. First of all, as I have said, it is to keep here as long as possible and until the last moment this phalanx of Irish Members; and the next object is to keep these respective measures, which form the bribe and support of the conflicting parties which make up the majority—to keep them all in favour each with the other, and to run this legislation pari passu, so that no one measure can get an advantage over the other—so that there may be a guarantee that these three measures will be passed without giving an opportunity of priority to one as compared with the other. Otherwise what is the meaning of synchronising the date of the possible meeting of the Irish Parliament with the possible date when the Welsh Church Bill is to come into operation? That is a mere coincidence, of course, but does it not plainly show that the object is to encourage these different parties to have confidence in each other, 503 so that each may believe that his own party is not to be left out in the cold, and so that all the Members of this conglomeration will each get his pound of flesh? But there is another object. I venture to suggest, whatever hon. Gentlemen or right hon. Gentlemen opposite may say, that their conscience is not quite easy, such conscience as they have left, because it has been nearly worn out, having stood so much. But whatever is left must be uneasy on the question whether or not they have a mandate for Home Rule. Now the reason why I say that they must be particularly uneasy is that of the 280 Members who were returned to this Parliament as Radicals in December, 1910, 184 made no mention of Home Rule in their election addresses. That is a concrete fact which cannot be denied. That is to say, fully two-thirds of hon. Gentlemen opposite who sit there and still avow that they were sent to this House with a mandate for Home Rule, did not even think of it when they came to issue their election addresses; and the right hon. Gentleman must know that not only in his conscience, but even in the conscience of many of his own followers in the Press, there is a very uneasy feeling in regard to this contention that Home Rule was not made one of the foremost planks in the programme. We have now responsible organs of the party admitting that, although it was a cardinal factor, it was not the chief factor. It seems to me to be like a card called "the Joker" in a celebrated game—a sort of card which you might use or not, but a very big one to use if you put it forward as a trump card.
I am bound to say that the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary has always regarded this Bill as a joke. What is it the Government are at in regard to this— because I am not one of those innocent people who assume that all this machinery is for nothing? I am not one of those who assume that the Government are going to throw this young and infant Irish House of Parliament into this extraordinary confusion, which it will take them years to extricate themselves from, for nothing. They have found that it will suit them to have an election after this Bill is passed into law, and before it comes into operation. I think there are good grounds for saying that, because the official Radical candidate at Mid-Lothian expressly said so, and said he was speaking with authority. He pledged himself to his constituents, or those whom he wanted to be 504 his constituents, that there would be— must be—a General Election before this Bill came into operation. The right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Admiralty about the same time said something very like the same thing, but he did not say it quite as plainly. I believe this device of right hon. Gentlemen to keep control by means of this elaborate provision in Clause 46 is one that is not very creditable to themselves, or honourable even as a matter of political manœuvres or tactics. This Bill is to receive the Royal Assent—if under any conditions they ever induce anyone to give the Royal Assent to it—and they will be able to say, "Now we will go to the country, and then you will not be able to say that the country has not had an opportunity of pronouncing an opinion upon the Bill." If they are beaten when they go to the country, they want to put us—that is, the Unionist Government—which would then come into office, in the position of reversing a thing which, although it has not come into operation, has become an Act of Parliament. It is a plain device, a clever manœeuvre, but not a very creditable one. It is plain on the face of the provisions of this Bill. I have considered it very carefully, and I can find no explanation other than those I have suggested as to why this Bill has been left in this deplorable condition. As I have said, they do not follow precedent. They have rejected all precedent. If they had followed precedent they would have followed the Act of 1902, and they would have said: "Except where otherwise expressly provided this date of the passing of the Act is to be the same as the appointed day." That is in the Act of 1902. It is intelligent, and it is good sense. While they have made some things come into operation upon the actual passing of the Act, they have failed to provide any machinery or to create any Executive or body to take charge of such things as are to be transferred. They have left these administrative, Executive, and judicial bodies to be created on appointed days which are not named. They have left the whole thing in this state of confusion, and they preserve to themselves the right to appoint any number of appointed days. They do not specify the particular matter to which each of these appointed days is to refer, nor do they define themselves what these various matters are to be. They cannot deny—and this is the main point which I wish really to put—that they cannot deal with matters which they have provided in 505 the Bill shall come into operation on the date of the passing of the Act. They have no power, by Order in Council or otherwise, to defer the operation a day or an hour of the powers of the Act in so far as the Bill provides. It must come into operation. It cannot be denied if the Bill is left in this position that a number of most important matters in connection with it are to take effect legally and in point of law on the day the Bill passes, whereas in fact if they come into effect, there is no machinery, no Executive, no power to appoint an Executive, and no provision made for the purpose of providing this machinery for the future appointed day. If the answer is given to me that it is proposed by Order in Council, or by this system of machinery of the appointed day to start the Executive on the day the Bill passes, then the Government are up against an unconstitutional anomaly that by so doing they will be putting in office an Executive who may, under the terms of their own Bill, remain for months irresponsible and without an Irish Parliament calling them to order. For these reasons I certainly am not merely against the Amendment, but against the Clause.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI think when the matter comes to be looked at closely and fairly, it will be found not to present the difficulties and ambiguities which the right hon. and learned Gentleman has suggested. He says that in the proposals of the Government, first of all in the first Sub-section of this Clause, and then in a subsequent Clause, Clause 46, there is some dark, sinister and ulterior purpose. I am sure the right and learned Gentleman will not accept my assurance that it is not so.
§ J. H. CAMPBELLI accept it, but——
§ The PRIME MINISTERHe accepts it, but he does not believe it. As a matter of fact, although the right hon. and learned Gentleman will not accept my assurance, there is no such purpose. We have based our policy on what we believe to be the precedents of Parliamentary legislation over a long series of years. What is the problem with which we have to deal? You are calling into existence— I agree on a larger scale and dealing with more serious matters than has been the case hitherto— a new legislature, a new Executive. Some provision must be made before the machinery gets to work for setting up the machine itself. The only way 506 of doing that is to provide before the Act comes into full operation, before the new machine you are creating proceeds to discharge the functions you are entrusting to it there shall be an interval—or interregnum if you like—in which, by Orders in Council, the preliminary steps for creation of constituencies, elections, and, if necessary, 'an intermediate Executive shall be brought into existence. What we have done is that we propose to provide in Clause 46 of the Bill, by an Order in Council, that certain provisions should be brought into effect with reference to particular matters. We propose that different days may be appointed for different purposes and different conditions. In that we are following strictly in the line of past legislation, and in particular the legislation of our Unionist predecessors.
An exactly similar provision is to be found in the Local Government of Ireland Act, 1898—so far as this point is concerned. There are fixed dates given. I am coming to that presently. But as regards this intermediate, preliminary, or anticipatory stage, exactly similar provisions are made in the Act of 1898 as we propose to make in this Bill—that is to say, that by an Order in Council particular provisions of the Act may be brought into operation at particular dates which shall not be simultaneous. Exactly the same thing is provided in the later, and very important, Act—the Education Act of 1902. In that Act, Clause 27, Sub-section (2), it is stated in these terms:—
The Act shall come into operation on an appointed day.The appointed day is fixed as a particular date. I agree, a point of distinction; but the point I am now upon is this:—
Different days may be appointed for different purposes and different provisions of the Act.The particular provision which you are bringing into existence, a new Legislature and a new Executive, with all the consequences that follow in that creation, is entirely in accordance with the precedents of previous legislation. It is in accordance with precedent that Parliament should entrust the Executive, by the operation of an Order in Council, on different days in successive stages, to provide what I may call the process of the creation of the machinery before the machinery comes into actual operative existence. So far I do not think there will be any difference of opinion.
§ Mr. WILLIAM O'BRIENWho will have the appointment of the Irish Executive during the interregnum?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI will come to that. I am only now pointing out that the making provision by an Order in Council for these preliminary matters before the system is brought into operation is in strict accordance with precedent. I do not go further than that. The right hon. and learned Gentleman said that there are certain provisions in the Act, as I understood his argument, which come into operation at once upon the passing of the Act.
§ 5.0 P.M.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLassented.
§ 5.0 p.m.
§ The PRIME MINISTERLet us see what these are. I am referring now to cases where words are expressly used in an Act. In Clause 27 it is provided, I agree, by express terms, that a judge of the Supreme Court appointed after the passing of the Act shall be appointed by the Lord Lieutenant, with the consequences that follow. I think that the criticism of the hon. and learned Gentleman on that is very fair. I think those words "after the passing of the Act" should be omitted. I do not think there ought to be a time after the passing of the Act, and before the creation and bringing into existence of the Irish Parliament and the Irish Executive, during which the provisions of this Clause shall apply. In the other Clause which the right hon. Gentleman refers to, and in which I agree the words do occur, Clause 14—I am sure he will agree with this—the words "at the time of the passing of the Act" are only to be found in Sub-section (2), paragraph (a), and they refer, not to the time at which the Transferred Sum shall be paid, but to the time at which it shall be ascertained. Of course, it must be be ascertained subsequently. What the Bill points to is the date as from which it shall be ascertained—the date of the passing of the Act. I think we are agreed upon that. Now I refer to these two points, although I agree they do not affect the main substance of the right hon. Gentleman's argument, but s y far as I know they are the only two cases in the Bill in which the expression "passing of the Act" occurs.
§ Mr. CASSELThere are other Clauses.
§ The PRIME MINISTERThey are not material, so far as I know.
§ Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSONClause 32.
§ The PRIME MINISTERThat has been altered.
§ Mr. CASSELOnly in some places.
§ The PRIME MINISTERIf the hon. Gentleman thinks that important he can develop it in the course of the Debate, but so far as I know these were the two cases. I want to state this quite plainly, because here we are not dealing with the final form of the Act, and upon Report stage I am prepared to make the necessary drafting Amendments, and I want to say what the Government's intention really is and to see whether that intention is carried out by the Bill as drafted. Our intention is that the Bill as an Act shall come into effective operation, subject to the creation, as I have said, by provisional Orders in Council of the necessary preliminary machinery of election and so forth, on the appointed day. And as regards that appointed day we have thought—and that is why we make this Amendment in Clause 42—that it was not desirable to make— and the right hon. Gentleman gives us very good reasons for it—the date of the meeting, which must be subsequent to the creation of the Irish Parliament, and as to which it is desirable to allow some time, the date, but we desire the Act to be brought into operation as an Act upon the appointed day. Now what is to be the appointed day? In all these Acts to which I refer, and I might refer to many others, the appointed day is the day named in the Act itself, and in all of them also there is given an opportunity to the Executive, either upon the one side or upon the other, within certain definite terms, to modify or alter the appointed day. Now I understand the substance, apart from minor questions or allegations which are here made, of the allegation as to the possible consequences of taking such a wide margin between the two possible termini within which the appointed day might be fixed, is that the Executive Government is trying under this Act in regard to a matter which I agree is of very great importance, namely, the composition of the Imperial House, not merely of the Irish Parliament, but the Imperial House of Commons—the date on which the representation of Ireland in this House is to be reduced from 103 Members to forty-two Members—the Imperial Executive is trying to take, and may take under the provisions of this Clause, an illegitimate power or an inexpedient power to use the margin in obedience to party exigency in fixing the date. That, I think, 509 is the real charge, and I am trying to put it as clearly as I can. I agree that ought to be guarded against. I disclaim any such intention or purpose, or that we had any such purpose in our mind, but I think it is a reasonable apprehension or suspicion which our opponents may have, namely, that if we were entrusted with such power we might make use of it for party purposes, and therefore I am quite prepared to accept any suggestion—I will not commit myself now to the particular words — but any suggestion which commends itself as reasonable to right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite to restrain or to limit that power, to contract the area within which what I may call the termini is to exist, will receive careful attention. I do rot know what that suggestion may be, bus you must give a little elasticity one way or the other, either in the way of extension or otherwise, but if any suggestion is made here now or hereafter which in the view of right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite will in point of time guard against the danger which they apprehend, I am perfectly prepared to consider it and, if possible, to accept it.
§ Sir EDWARD CARSONMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether under Clause 46, and having regard to Clause 13, the Government of the day by Order in Council have power to fix any date they like within the margin as the appointed day for the forty-two Members?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI think they have.
§ Sir E. CARSONI mean the appointed day for that purpose.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI am a little anxious about answering that question. I am not sure that in Clause 13 the words after the appointed day when the Clause was drafted was the date of the first meeting of the Irish Parliament. That question has been left out or will be.
§ Sir E. CARSONThat is why I asked.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI gathered that is the reason the right hon. Gentleman asked the question, and therefore I should like, if I may, to have time to consider it, but I hope I have made my meaning clear.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLThe point to which I attach very great importance is this: Clause 46 only enables them to make a variety of appointed days in regard to matters which under the Bill are to come into operation on the appointed day. There 510 are a great many matters as to which the Act is silent as to when they will come into operation, and presumably they will come into operation on the passing of the Act.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI was coming to that. I make the further concession here—I do think it would be desirable, now that I have given the matter very careful consideration—to fix in this Clause 46 and in accordance with the precedent of the Acts I have already stated, the day as the-day on which the Acts will come into operation.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLWill we have time to discuss that?
§ The PRIME MINISTERCertainly, on Report stage. I am trying to give some concession to the arguments advanced, which I think are well founded. I think that on the whole, after consideration and reading the Debates last night, that Clause 46 would be improved—I am not committing myself to any particular form of words —if it was put in some such way as this: "This Act shall come into operation on the date which we have named—the eighth month after the passing of the Bill—which in this Act is the date referred to as the appointed day. Does the right hon. Gentleman follow me?
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLI quite follow, but I do not think it will make it any better.
§ The PRIME MINISTERAt any rate, it makes it clearer—to insert in Clause 46-the date for the commencement of the operations of the Act, and to make that date coincide with the appointed day subject to the powers of variation and as to the limit in which the variation is allowed, I agree we should be open to suggestion, but subject to variations in certain limits which are already provided for. I should propose that subject to the suggestions we may receive as to what I may call the contraction of the margin of the area of the termini that we should amend Clause 46 in that way by naming the day as to the date on which the Act should come into operation, and that, with the Amendment I have already suggested as regards the earlier Clauses, I think, would cover the whole ground.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLI do not want to put any undue pressure upon the right hon. Gentleman, but I do not think he has made this point. Is there to be an Executive before the appointed day, and who 511 are to administer the duties which undoubtedly will devolve from the day first the Act passes who is to be the Irish Executive, and where will you get it?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI do not like to commit myself on the spur of the moment. The Act is to be brought into operation on a particular day, but subject to the powers of inception by an Order in Council the Executive would not come into existence until that day.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLI am afraid I have not made my point clear. You take powers under Clause 46 even as you propose to amend it to name a definite date with subsequent powers of varying that date for particular purposes, but these particular purposes can only be with regard to matters which the Bill already provides are to come into operation on the appointed day. That gives you power to have one day for one purpose, and another day for another, but there are a whole lot of other matters uncovered by that which therefore primâ facie come into operation on the day the Bill passes. These will require and call for Executive administration. Where are you to get your Executive? If your Executive is not to be appointed by a particular day there must be an interregnum during which the Executive duties must be discharged by somebody. If it is by the Executive how can you have an Executive with no power to whom they are responsible?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThe same problem, of course, arises everywhere. It arose in South Africa and Australia—there you had exactly the same problem, how you were to deal with the Executive or provisional Executive before Parliament was brought into existence, and there in both cases it was satisfactorily resolved. I call the right hon. Gentleman's attention to the Interpretation Act, 1889, Section 37, which provides:—
Where an Act passed after the commencement of this Act is not to come into operation immediately on the passing thereof, and confers power to make any appointment, to make, grant, or issue any instrument, that is to say, any Order in Council, order, warrant, scheme, letters patent, rules, regulations, or by-laws, to give notices, to prescribe forms, or to do any other thing for the purposes of the Act, that power may, unless the contrary intention appears, be exercised at any time after the pass- 512 ing of the Act, so far as may be necessary or expedient for the purpose of bringing the Act into operation at the date of the commencement thereof, subject to this restriction, that any instrument made under the power shall not, unless the contrary intention appears in the Act, or the contrary is necessary for bringing the Act into operation, come into operation until the Act comes into operation.That is a provision which is inserted generally in Acts of Parliament, that they are not to come into operation immediately the Acts are passed, and it seems strictly germane to the present case. Clause 46, carrying out, as previous legislation has done in similar cases, gives greater elasticity than the Section itself, because it enables a particular provision to be brought into operation by an Order in Council.
§ Mr. BONAR LAWWe have listened with interest to the quotation which the Prime Minister has just made, and I think the Committee, as a whole, will agree with me when I say that any subject which the Prime Minister is not able to make intelligible must be in its nature utterly unintelligible. Without going into these details of legal interpretation, I ask the Committee to consider the position in which we are placed by the admissions which the Prime Minister has just made. Last night the Attorney-General dealt with precisely the same subject, and he treated all our objections as utterly trivial.
§ Sir RUFUS ISAACSNo.
§ Mr. BONAR LAWI beg the Attorney-General's pardon, but he stated that there was not the smallest difficulty in getting over every one of our objections by the Act as it stood. What does the Prime Minister do? The first thing he does is to say that what my right hon. Friend said is perfectly ridiculous, and it must be put right by an Amendment.
§ The PRIME MINISTERNot "ridiculous."
§ Mr. BONAR LAWWell, I will leave out "ridiculous," but, at any rate, the right hon. Gentleman said it was so bad that it would be necessary to put it right by an Amendment. I think that is admitted. What follows? By the mere accident that we happened to have time for the discussion of this particular point we are able to show that it is unworkable. I put it to any Member of this Committee, is it not 513 credible that if we had had a proper discussion it would have been found that from beginning to end of this Bill there are precisely the same sort of things which must be put right before the Bill will work? Let the Committee realise what the position is in which we stand, owing to the way this Bill is being carried through. The moment this measure leaves the House on the Third Beading not one line can be altered for two years, and there is no one who has followed this measure Clause by Clause who does not realise how unworkable it is all through. My right hon. Friend pointed out that the whole question is absolutely confused for the further reason that there is no power by Order in Council to deal with Those Clauses of the Bill which by legal interpretation become law the moment the Act is passed. There are many such instances, and what does the Prime Minister say in regard to them. He suggests some Amendment which he is going to put in on Report. What he has suggested is very confused, and my legal friends inform me that they do not think what has been suggested will make matters a bit better. What it all amounts to is that this proposal is to be altered by the mere accident that the Prime Minister happened to be here at the time the matter was discussed. If the right hon. Gentleman had not been here, not a word would have been altered, and the Bill would have gone through precisely as it stands. I ask the Prime Minister to realise where we stand by the statement which he himself has made. His intention is to give power to bring any of the provisions into operation at any time by an Order in Council, and apparently the intention is to prepare for the election of the Irish Parliament.
How is it to be done? Obviously you cannot transfer any of the services until there is an Executive in existence, because everything must be done by them. You cannot set up a Treasury or an Exchequer Board, or anything else, without an Executive. What follows? Either you cannot use these subordinate appointed days, or you must use them under the authority of an Executive set up by this Government without any Parliamentary responsibility and without any knowledge that it will represent that Parliament. It seems to me that a more glaring case of the absurdity of carrying through a great constitutional change like this under the conditions under which it is now being discussed, was never brought before the House. I cannot follow these legal ques- 514 tions, but it seems to me clear that there was confusion, in fact the Prime Minister admits it, because he says they are going to try and deal with it. That is because he happened to be here, and it would not have been dealt with otherwise. It must be equally clear that the same sort of confusion runs from beginning to end of this Bill. I do not want to give illustrations, but can anyone imagine anything more confusing than the case in which the Attorney-General was looking for a provision which the Postmaster-General said was in the Bill, but he could not find it. From beginning to end the same thing has occurred. Whenever we have had adequate time to discuss any part of this Bill the Government have bad to make Amendments, and yet 99–100ths of this measure has gone through without the smallest Amendment. There is another aspect of this question, and it is most important. I do not feel competent to follow the right hon. Gentleman in his legal arguments, but the Prime Minister has stated that there is no thought of party advantage in regard to the time when this Act is to come into force, and he suggests to us that we should make a proposal. Obviously, we cannot do that without careful consideration. I wish to say now that so far as I am concerned the only proposal to which we would attach any value, and the only proposal which in my opinion the Government are bound in common decency to carry out is that in the position in which they stand as a Government this Bill should not become law until after a General Election, and until the people of this country have had an opportunity of expressing their opinion.
I say that from the Government's own point of view, because I see no reason why the Government should not take that course. The only reason I can imagine, and I believe it is a true one, is that directly or indirectly the right hon. Gentleman and his Government have made a bargain with hon. Members below the Gangway that they will pass this Bill into law. There is no other explanation of it. Why should the Government not postpone it? If they have the support of the majority of the people of this country, they will lose nothing by the course I have suggested. But if they have not the support of a majority of the people and if they are not sure that they have it, do they really think that they are entitled to carry a great constitutional change like this and face the inevitable result of it, namely, 515 the coercion of Ulster without the certainty that they have the support of the majority of the people of this country. Do they claim that they have the right to do that? I do not think they make that claim. I do not think the Prime Minister will say that he is justified in carrying this Bill into law unless he is sure that the people of this country are behind him. The reason I objected to this fourteen months' delay was it seemed to me it was an indication that the Government were at least convinced in regard to the course suggested that they should try and carry the Bill into law and obtain the Royal Assent. On that I wish to say nothing now, but we shall have a good deal to say upon it before this Bill comes to its final stage. The right hon. Gentleman suggested they should try to obtain the Royal Assent, and that they should have an interval before the Bill is actually put into operation, and should leave it to the Government which follows them to reverse what they have done. It seems to me that if that is the policy of the right hon. Gentleman, I can imagine nothing more wicked than such an argument would be. If the Government are sure that they have the country behind them, there is no difficulty in getting its approval, but if they are not sure, and contemplate the possibility of not obtaining the support of the country before the Act comes into operation, what do they mean to do? They mean to bring this Bill into law, and I am sure the Chief Secretary will agree with me when I say that it is hardly possible to believe that this Bill can come into operation in Ireland without disturbances in the North of Ireland, which no one would deplore more than I should. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh, oh !"] It is all very well for hon. Gentlemen who know nothing about it to sneer. I do know something about it, and so does the Chief Secretary, and it is inconceivable to me that this can happen without disorder. If the Government take the course I have suggested their position is greatly strengthened. Suppose they lose the election; then we are bound to reverse what they have done, and that after you have excited to an extent which no one can imagine the hopes of hon. Gentlemen below the Gangway. You would deliberately make certain that you would have disorder when the Act was passed into law, and equally disorder when there was any attempt, made to reverse it. I say that if that is in the mind of the Government, any- 516 thing more discreditable or more unlike proper statesmanship has never been attempted by any Minister of the Crown.
§ Mr. CASSELI wish to intervene again for a few moments, because some of these points were raised yesterday which the Prime Minister has dealt with to-day. The Prime Minister has somewhat disarmed opposition by the way in which he has dealt with some criticisms with reference to points of detail. If the right hon. Gentleman had not met those detailed points in that way I should have felt inclined to complain that matters of such vital importance under this Bill should have been left in this state of uncertainty and chaos at this moment. The right hon. Gentleman said the question of the appointed day was one of the most important factors in the Bill, but, notwithstanding that statement, the whole matter is left in absolute uncertainty and doubt. He proposes to set up an Executive, a Parliament and a judiciary in Ireland, but he does not say when these various portions of the new Constitution are to come into existence. I asked yesterday for an explanation of the extension of this period. Would any right hon. Gentleman tell us why the period is now being extended from twelve months, as originally proposed, to fifteen months? Under the Bill, as it stood originally, there would, assuming the Act was passed in March next, have been six months until September; and, in addition, They could, by Order in Council, have postponed it for another six months, which would have meant twelve months altogether. They now propose to extend the time to fifteen months. I asked twice yesterday why they had extended the period from twelve to fifteen months. I wonder whether any right hon. Gentlemen opposite will deign to give an explanation. It seems to me to be a point which calls for explanation. If the additional three months are necessary, we ought to have an explanation, and, if they are not necessary, then we ought not to be called upon to make this Amendment, which still further extends the time during which the Cabinet will have it in their power to create, or not to create, these various portions of the Irish Constitution as it suits their convenience. The Prime Minister said he would be prepared to leave out the words "passing of this Act" in Clause 27. That, in my judgment, would not really remedy matters in the least. The interpretation, in my view, would still be the same, unless you put in some Amendment saying the whole Act 517 was to commence from a new date. Of course, if we are to have that, it is extremely difficult to discuss this Amendment until we know what the other Amendment is going to be.
Let me again call the attention of the right hon. Gentleman to the importance of some Amendment in connection with Clause 27. The judges are only removable under that Clause, on presentation of an Address from the two Houses of the Irish Parliament. It becomes very important that new power of removing the judges should not come into force until the date the Irish Parliament is actually in existence and capable of meeting. The position is really very much worse than we at first supposed, because, not only do you have a period of fifteen months before the appointed day arrives, but you have another period, when Parliament meets for the first time, which may be twelve months from that day, so that altogether you have really got twenty-seven months. I see the right hon. Gentleman does not agree with me. I do not know whether I have made the point clear, but if I had I think he would agree. The final period at which this Irish Parliament must meet for the first time is twenty-seven months, more than two years, from the passing of the Act. It need not meet under the Bill as ii- stands for more than two years after the passing of the Act. Therefore the 103 Trish Members need not vacate their seats in this House under Clause 42, Subsection (2), if the Government so wish, for a period of two years and three months. I understand some Amendment is going to be accepted, but before that Amendment is made I would ask the right hon. Gentleman to bear in mind the distinction between the time when there is a Parliament and the first meeting of the Parliament, because at present there are two contradictory periods given in the Bill when the Irish Members are to vacate their seats. Clause 13 says "on the appointed day," which is the time when there is an Irish Parliament.
§ Sir RUFUS ISAACSAfter.
§ Mr. CASSEL"After" must be the day immediately following. The right lion. Gentleman would not contend it might be a hundred years, or even a year after. There will, therefore, be only forty-two Irish Members in this House on the day after the appointed day. In Clause 42, Sub-section (2), there is an exact contradictory provision. Under that Clause the 103 Members are to vacate 518 their seats not on the day immediately following the appointed day, but on an entirely different day, which may be a year later; that is to say, the day of the first meeting of the Irish Parliament. When right hon. Gentlemen opposite are amending the Bill, I hope they will also bear that contradiction in mind. We have had the question of the date on which the Transferred Sum is to be determined raised, and I think everybody agrees that under the Bill it is the date of the passing of the Act. Could there be anything more ridiculous than to fix positively on one day and to begin to pay as from another day? There may be an intervening period between the passing of the Act and the appointed day, during which the Imperial Executive still continues to carry on the services in Ireland. Surely the reasonable date to fix for ascertaining the Transferred Sum is not the date of the passing of the Act, but the date when the Irish services pass from the Imperial officers to the Irish officers. Otherwise you may have the Transferred Sum diminished or increased as compared with the cost of the services during a period for which the Irish Administration is not responsible. I will take an extreme case in order to make my point clear. Supposing the period is fifteen months, and supposing during that period the cost of the Irish services is doubled. Could anything more ridiculous be imagined than that although the cost of the Irish services has been doubled during that period, you should pay as the Transferred Sum, not a sum representing the cost when the services were taken over, but half that sum, the sum at the time of the passing of the Act.
I submit when the right hon. Gentleman is considering these Amendments that is a point he ought to bear in mind. It appears to me quite absurd to fix any sum other than the sum which is the actual cost at the time when the services are taken over, and the date as from which it should be payable is the date the Irish services are taken over by the Irish Executive from the Imperial Executive. Clause 4 provides that Members of the Irish Ministry must become Members of the Irish Parliament within six months. Whatever period you put in there, you must not make the period for creating the Irish Parliament longer, because, if you do, you are led to a ridiculous result, and in order to get out of the difficulty you must change your Ministers. It would mean that after keeping your Ministers for five 519 months you would have to get new Ministers in order to comply with the provisions of the Bill, which it seems to me would not be treating Parliament fairly. I do not think that could have been the intention at the time the Bill was framed. Speaking generally with regard to these Amendments, I submit that if we are to have large Amendments upon what the Prime Minister himself declared to be the most important points in the Bill, namely, the dates its various parts are to come into operation, some further opportunity for discussion really ought to be given to us. We have extricated the Government from a hopeless bog in which they were floundering, and the least we can ask from them is that they should give us the opportunity of considering the methods by which they choose to put themselves right.
Sir G. PARKERThere is one thing which has emerged from the Prime Minister's speech of which I have no doubt the Committee has taken full note. There will be in Ireland an Executive appointed —we assume by the Lord Lieutenant— which will have authority in Ireland until the new Parliament is elected. The Prime Minister said that condition of things had a precedent, and we have heard of the cases of Australia and the new Union of South Africa. I do not think the Prime Minister's reference was at all a satisfactory one from the standpoint of good argument or from the standpoint of this Bill. There is no parallel between the two conditions of affairs. You had in Australia an Executive doing the work of administration in every individual State, whilst there was being arranged the larger administration which would take over purely federal affairs. You had exactly the same thing in South Africa. A responsible Government and Executive existed in every one of those provinces, and there was no body of men performing the duties of a Government and of Executive officers who had not been properly elected and who were not properly supported by a Minister in Parliament for that purpose. Here you have an Executive nominated. It would be entirely different from any Executive ever before established in the history of our Empire. I hope I have the attention of the Attorney-General, because these points are not trivial. The Prime Minister has put this forward as a precedent for this Bill. I say the Prime Minister was not justified in making a reference of that kind. It is thoroughly unsound in every particular, as 520 everybody who knows the constitutional history of our Empire knows full well. I take exception to it, because it is the kind of thing that goes down in this House. The Prime Minister in his august position makes a statement of that sort, and hon. Members on that side of the House swallow it as though it were gospel. I repudiate the Prime Minister's statement as not having any foundation in fact. His references and precedents are wholly without constitutional authority. I am trying to direct the attention of the Committee to this fact, that you would have an Executive set up in Ireland the like of which has never yet been set up by the Crown in any portion of the King's Dominions. You would have an Executive which will not have the authority of Parliament behind it.
§ Mr. PRINGLEWhat about the Transvaal?
§ Mr. PRINGLEI am not referring to the Union. I am referring to the grant of self-government to South Africa.
Sir G. PARKERThe Prime Minister referred to the Union of South Africa and to the Commonwealth of Australia, and if the House believes that this Government is offering in this Home Rule Bill exactly the same kind of Constitution as exists in the case of South Africa or the Commonwealth of Australia, I can only say I think it is mistaken. I am trying to point out that, under the Bill, you are going to have an Executive nominated by the Crown, who may carry on the government of Ireland until the appointed day when the Parliament is established, and you may have an Executive in Ireland carrying on the administrative work without the authority of Parliament—at any rate until the Parliament is set up—it may be for fifteen months or for an even longer period. I want the Committee to realise what that means. You abolish the power of this Imperial Parliament, which corresponds to the State Parliaments in Australia and in the Union of South Africa; you abolish the original Parliament which carries on the administration in Ireland, and that you did not do in the case of South Africa or of the Commonwealth of Australia, and you set up an Executive which has no authority whatever. If the Executive of this House were to have 521 authority in Ireland until the new Parliament is set up, you would have something analogous to the conditions which exist in our Overseas Dominions. But the power of this Executive disappears as soon as this Act is passed. You have given a temporary and improvised Executive which will carry on the work of administration. When the Parliament is set up presumably the members of the Executive will be the hon. and learned Member for Waterford (Mr. John Redmond), the hon. Member for East Mayo (Mr. Dillon), and the hon. Member for the Scotland Division of Liverpool (Mr. T. P. O'Connor), and other Gentlemen who represent the Nationalist policy in Ireland. Then having established their position as an Executive, carrying out the administration in Ireland, a Parliament is set up and they disappear, for we assume that, as soon as an election occurs, they Just go to the country and get their authority and then come on to the Executive. Just imagine an Executive of that kind with a democratic authority behind it. One can imagine what kind of pandering there will be to the constituencies, and what kind of use will be made of the Administration in Ireland in order to secure power in the new permanent Executive. I want the position to be brought home to every Member of this House. It is one of singular difficulty and danger, and that danger which we have foreseen is being justified step by step and day by day. You have got an anomalous position in a great democratic community which has no authority except the authority of the Government that can carry through this Bill with the help of the cohorts behind it.
§ 6.0 P.M.
§ Mr. JAMES HOPEI am astonished that no one on the Government Bench has attempted to reply to the speech of the Leader of the Opposition. My right hon. Friend raised a point, most important in its possible consequences, namely, whether this Act will come into operation before the people have had an opportunity of expressing an opinion upon it. What is all this legal talk about the appointed day after the passing of this Act? Anyone who has really studied the question knows that the appointed day will be a day on which there will be a violent collision between the Irish Executive and a large section of the population of Ireland. Some of us have been taunted as if we gloried in that anticipation. I abhor and repudiate it. I will tell the Committee quite frankly why it is that this prospect strikes me, not only with deep anxiety, but with something 522 approaching dread. It is not merely that every honest citizen shrinks from the idea of bloodshed. I can quite see that if the collision takes place, however much my right hon. Friend (Sir E. Carson) and others who act with him may restrain, or attempt to restrain, the course of events, they will in practice develop into something like religious war, and it will mean the stirring up of ancient animosities against the faith which I hold, not only in this country, but throughout the Empire. Therefore, from both points of view I dread the prospect. It is certain to come if the Government persevere in their present course. I will call as a witness the Vice-President of the Board of Agriculture. In the Debate on the Second Reading he told us, that there would be sanguinary riots if this Bill is put through. What does that mean? It means there will be volley firing in crowded streets: perhaps Cavalry charges, and every day the papers will be full of casualty lists, and photographers who shrink from reproducing no scenes of horror will supply daily dishes for the public appetite. And then there will be savage reprisals. I know that my right hon. Friend will exercise all the restraint he can; but I doubt if he will always succeed. A Commander cannot always control the Bashi Bazouks who follow his flag. I do not know that there are worse elements in the population of Belfast than elsewhere; but that there are evil elements is certain and I foresee that by way of reprisal there will be outrages on innocent people, and probably the sacking of churches with every circumstance of profanity and sacrilege. Now can these things be averted. They will not be averted by the quips and cranks and the bells and motley of the Chief Secretary. Humouristic arts will fail here; but the catastrophe may be averted if the Government will face the position. The best way would be to drop the Bill but if this cannot be done, the Government might at least cut down the Eastern counties of Ulster. This would not disarm the opposition of English Unionists who object to Home Rule anywhere in the United Kingdom but it would prevent this particular disaster. But again if the Government will not do this they might at least do something to mitigate the danger, so clearly foreseen, if they would make it certain that there will be a General Election, not only before the passing of the Act, but before its coming into operation. Then the difficul- 523 ties of the position would be mitigated. But there are objections to that, because, to my mind, the situation is not clear. If there were a clear issue, and if the Government made it clear, then there would be a modification of a great part of the danger. Of course, it would have to be not merely before the appointed day, but before the passing of the Act. The best way would be that there should be a Referendum. I am not saying that this would necessarily be effective. A year ago I should have said there was not one man out of ten in the Conservative party in Great Britain (outside Liverpool and Glasgow) who would not have been willing to abide by the result of a Referendum on Home Rule. A year has passed, passion has been excited by the course of the Government and I will not put it as high now. Still the Referendum would have great advantages. By it the Government could put themselves in the right. Now we say that they are trying to carry their Bill by fraud; but we should not be able to say it then. IE they won they would have the moral authority of the people behind them, where as if they lost, they would have a honourable retreat from a desperate and perhaps fatal position. I know that a Member who speaks much and takes many points on a great Bill like this is liable to the charge that he is speaking more from the view of the party game and this charge is not always deserved; but I can assure any Member who is willing to believe me that I am in dead earnest now. I see an immediate future, if the Government go on in their present course, of great and, perhaps, incalculable disaster, and I trust that whatever means they may take, whether they win or lose in the end, this particular catastrophe at any rate will be averted.
§ Mr. G. LOCKER-LAMPSONIt is rather difficult to follow my hon. Friend who has just sat down, who has made a most eloquent and able speech. He said he did not make that speech for party purposes. Of course it is very difficult, when you are dealing with this Bill, not to deal with it to a certain extent from the point of view of party, but I should like to ask in all sincerity one or two questions of the Attorney-General. To my mind the position in regard to this Bill since the speech of the Prime Minister this afternoon has become an extraordinarily complicated one. We on this side of the Committee are not treated with fairness in respect to the 524 Amendments that are put on the Paper by the Government. For instance, the other day the Order Paper contained three Amendments to this Sub-section. One of the Amendments cut out the Sub-section, the second turned an Order in Council into an Irish Transfer Order in Council, and the third actually cut out the transitory provisions of this Sub-section. Anybody taking up the Order Paper two days ago did not in the least know which of these Amendments the Government proposed to move. Not only are the Amendments on the Paper utterly at variance one with another, but the Amendments render the provisions of the Bill entirely inconsistent and chaotic. Under the original proposals of the Government, before they put down the Amendment that cuts out the Subsection, the longest period for which an Order in Council could operate in respect of the appointed day was twelve months, namely, between one March and the next March, but under the new scheme this period has been lengthened to fourteen months, and during those fourteen months, so far as I can see, the Bill will be brought, into operation piecemeal. I do not think there is any doubt about this. If you look at Clause 46 you see that different appointed days may be set up for the different provision of the Bill. I should like to ask the learned Attorney-General whether the Orders in Council fixing the appointed days for the different provisions of the Bill will be laid before the Parliament of the United Kingdom? Before the last Government Amendments were put down they would have been laid before the Parliament of the United Kingdom prior to coming into operation, but, apparently, the new Amendments the Government have put down strike out that very important safeguard.
If the right hon. Gentleman will look at Clauses 44 and 45, he will see that the words the Government have put down turn the words "Orders in Council" into "Irish Transfer Orders in Council," and, so far as I can see, it is only these Irish Transfer Orders in Council that have to be laid before the Imperial Parliament. Apparently, under Clause 46, the Order in Council, which deals with the various appointed days which are to be set up, will escape this very valuable restriction and conic into operation immediately. I should like to know, when the right hon. Gentleman replies, if he does me the honour of answering these questions, why the Government 525 have put down these Amendments practically withdrawing that very valuable restriction? I should also like to ask whether this series of Orders in Council is going to be brought into operation on the advice of the Irish or the Imperial Executive? If they are going to be brought into operation on the advice of the Imperial Executive they will, at any rate, be some sort of safeguard that an Order in Council will not be brought into operation merely to gerrymander the provisions of the Bill from a purely partisan point of view. If, on the other hand, they are to be brought into operation on the advice of the Irish Executive, that Executive can go merrily on without setting up a Parliament, or they might get the meeting of the Irish Parliament set up much earlier than would otherwise be the case. Another point on which I should like to ask for an explanation is this: Under Clause 46 different days may be set up for the different purposes and different provisions of the Bill. What powers will this give to the Irish Government t Will it enable them to have different appointed days for different parts of Ireland — that is to say, do the Government contemplate a serious condition of affairs arising in the North of Ireland, and do they want to give the Irish Government power to have different appointed days for bringing the Act into force in different parts of Ireland? Under the wording of the Bill there is nothing to prevent the Irish Government from doing this if they want to. I should very much like the right hon. Gentleman to explain that matter.
I believe—I may be quite wrong—that the real intention of the Government in putting down these Amendments is to hasten the meeting of the Irish Parliament, and to get it established before an election takes place and Home Rule is possibly repudiated by the people of this country. Under the Government's original proposals, and taking the Parliament Act into account, as one necessarily must do, the Irish Parliament would have met in September, 1915. Under the new proposals there is to be no date for the meeting of the Irish Parliament. Supposing that under the Parliament Act this Bill passes in May, 1914, the appointed day can, by Order in Council, be fixed for June, 1914, and the Irish Parliament could meet in the same month. That is rather interesting, for this reason: Before the Bill was amended by the Government during the last few days the Irish Parliament was 526 to meet in September, 1915. Now it will be able to meet in June, 1914, or fifteen months earlier. Under the Parliament Act the Government will have to go to the country not later than November, 1915. I understand that under the Parliament Act the quinquennial period will in practice be four years, so that probably, if they go on normally to the end of their tenure of office, they will go to the country at the end of 1914. The Irish Parliament can meet in June, 1914, so that the whole machinery and personnel of the Irish Parliament will already have been set up, and it will have been able to sit for about six months and make laws before the present Government goes to the country. What led the Government to do this? I cannot help thinking that they know the people of this country are against their scheme, but they know that once a Parliament has been set up in Ireland it would be extraordinarily difficult to reverse a system which has been set up. These Amendments are merely a dodge to make it almost impossible for this Imperial Parliament to rescind the Home Rule Act when it becomes law, although at a General Election the electorate may have returned a different Government, pledged to do all they can to abolish the Home Rule Pill altogether.
I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman what is to be the exact position of the Irish services during the interregnum between the passing of the Act and the appointed day? It is quite clear, if the right hon. Gentleman will look at Clause 2 and Clause 4, that Irish services are matters on which the Irish Parliament will have power to make laws. Therefore, there will either be no Irish services until the Parliament in Ireland is set up, or the Irish services will come into existence as soon as the Executive is set up, which may be a considerable time before the Irish Parliament comes into existence. In the latter case, as an Irish Minister can hold a portfolio for six months before he becomes a Member of the Irish Parliament, he could quite easily be the head of an Irish Department for six months, exercising the prerogatives, the privileges and the patronage of a big Department, without any responsibility whatsoever to the Irish Parliament. As a matter of fact, I do not see how under the Bill Irish services are even to come into existence before the Irish Parliament is set up. I will quote from Clause 4 which says:—
The powers so delegated"—527 that is to say, delegated by the Lord Lieutenant—shall be exercised through such Irish Departments as may be established by Irish Act,In spite of this the right hon. Gentleman said last night:—Having got your Executive, you can set up the various Departments which it is intended to have, at any rate, until Parliament is in active legislative operation."—[OFFICIAL REPORT. 10th December. 1912. col. 393.]Where does he get that from? It seems to me quite clear that under the Bill it is an Act of the Irish Parliament which is to set up Irish services.
§ Mr. PRINGLENo. Read on.
§ Mr. G. LOCKER-LAMPSONPerhaps the right hon Gentleman will deal with that point.
§ Sir RUFUS ISAACSIf the hon. Member will read on he will see. The hon. Member stopped at the bottom of page 3. The words run on to page 4, and say—
or, subject thereto, by the Lord Lieutenant, and the Lord Lieutenant may appoint officers to administer those Departments, and those officers shall hold office during the pleasure of the Lord Lieutenant.
Sir E. CARSODocs the right hon. Gentleman say that without an Act the Lord Lieutenant himself may set up a Department?
§ Sir RUFUS ISAACSYes.
§ Mr. G. LOCKER-LAMPSONThat must surely be subject to an Act of the Irish Parliament.
§ Sir RUFUS ISAACSYes.
§ Mr. G. LOCKER-LAMPSONIf it is subject to an Act of the Irish Parliament, the Lord Lieutenant will not be able to set it up without an Act of the Irish Parliament. I do not understand it at all, and I should very much like to have it explained. I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman another question. Under Clause 46 different appointed days may be set up for different purposes and provisions of the Act. Will this allow of different services being transferred to the Irish Parliament at different dates? I do not see that there is anything in the Clause to prevent it. For instance, can the appointed day with regard to primary 528 education be a different appointed day from that of the transfer of higher education to the Irish Parliament? Can the appointed days for agriculture, public works, or the Congested Districts Board being handed over all be different, and can those days be entirely different from the appointed day for handing over the judiciary? And if they can—and I do not see that there is anything to prevent it— the complication and confusion which will arise on the passage of this Bill will be perfectly inextricable. On the other hand, if the days are to be the same, I do not see why the Government should go out of their way to put a provision into the Bill enabling an Order in Council to vary the order of the various dates. Again, I should like to ask on what basis are the payments to be made to the Irish Exchequer for any transferred service? Under Clause 14 it would appear that certain payments are to be made as soon as the Irish Executive is set up. These payments, I take it, are measured by the cost of the Irish services at a given fixed date. I do not think there is any reason to doubt that, looking at the Bill, but it does not say that the cost shall be estimated for the period of the year when the transfer takes place. For instance, a full year's payment for all services might be made under the Bill although a fraction merely of the services have been transferred perhaps a month before the end of the financial year. And in regard to the subsidy of £500,000, has the payment of the subsidy any connection with the appointed day? Must it be paid entire to the Irish Exchequer or is a fraction only, corresponding to the portion of the year which has still to run, to be paid over? For instance, if the appointed day for setting up the Irish Treasury happens to be a month before the end of the financial year, will the Imperial Parliament still be obliged to hand over the whole of the £500,000 which covers the whole of the financial year?
My final point is that under Clause 9. Sub-section (3), the Irish Parliament may alter the electoral qualification of the Irish House of Commons three years after the passing of the Act. The provision, fixed as taking effect three years after the passing of the Act, cannot, I presume, be modified by any Order in Council altering the appointed day. I think that is pretty certain. How will this apply in the case of this Clause? Under the Bill the Irish Parliament need not, although I believe it will, meet for twenty-seven months after 529 the passing of this Act, and after another nine months it may apparently proceed to alter the whole of the franchise, the whole of the election laws, and the whole basis of the Irish House of Commons. I believe that is a correct interpretation of this Clause, and, if so, it seems to me that it is a very unsound provision that after nine months the Irish House of Commons should be able to alter the whole basis on which it rests. The Attorney-General last night referred to the Education Act of 1902, but I do not think that he quite appreciates the objection which the Opposition has to the provisions which he has put in enabling an Order in Council to select different appointed days. The Attorney - General said, quite rightly, that where you transfer one set of institutions from one body to another, you must necessarily take power for bringing the various parts of the Act into operation at various times, but the real object of the Opposition, I think, to these Amendments, is that tremendous conflict will arise between the powers you are giving under this Clause and the actual terms of the Bill. The 1902 Education Act has absolutely no reference to any meeting of Parliament, or any appointed day, or any such term as "the passing of the Act," and the general power was given by the Order in Council merely to bring the provisions of the Act into force within a certain definite period. But in the present case it is intended by the Order in Council either to override the express provisions of the Bill or to give an entirely different construction to the Bill from that which Members of the Committee had in their minds a few days ago before the Amendments were put on the Paper. Therefore, I feel that the right hon. Gentleman has not quite met the criticisms of the Opposition in this respect. If I have not asked too many questions, I shall be very glad if the right hon. Gentleman could answer the points I have put to him, and I feel sure that if he cannot answer them satisfactorily he will do his best, to put Amendments in the Bill to inset the case.
§ Mr. AMERYI only rise to supplement the points made by my hon. Friend (Sir G. Parker) in answer to the Prime Minister. My hon. Friend pointed out that the appointment of an Executive in Australia and the South African Union before the election of the new Parliament naturally arose out of the fact that you had an Executive already in existence in each Province or State, and, in fact, the men who 530 composed the new Executive were those who were already in Executive power in the different component Parliaments, and therefore the Prime Minister's parallel did not apply. While he was speaking an hon. Member opposite interjected a suggestion to the effect that his argument would not cover the case of the Transvaal. The interesting thing is that in the case of the Transvaal these very considerations caused the appointment of a new Executive Government to be postponed till after the election. I may speak with some knowledge on that point, as I was present at the elections of the Orange River Colony, which were conducted by the Crown Colony Governor under the control of the Crown Colony Colonial Secretary. After the results of the election were known on the following day, Sir Hamilton Adams called Mr. Fisher, the leader of the victorious party, and then made arrangements for the creation of the Government. The case of the Transvaal is more interesting still, because it was a matter of common knowledge that if Lord Selborne had appointed an Executive before the elections a compromise Government might have had to be formed. As a matter of fact, as the elections turned out, Sir Richard Solomon was defeated, and an entirely new situation arose; and Lord Selborne, rightly and properly, called General Botha. We may contemplate the possibility of the same sort of thing happening in Ireland. Hon. Members opposite, have been continually assuring us that one result of Home Bule will be an entirely different party division, and that a new-type of man will come to the front—a less. extreme type and a better type, according to their statements. Ought they not, then, to give that new type the best opportunity, whereas what they propose to do is, by the exercise of their own power, to-nominate their political allies, and to stereotype from the outset that very division which they declare is so undesirable, and stereotype it in a fashion which, by our knowledge of Ireland, may be disadvantageous. As we know in many cases in Ireland an independent section does not get very great consideration at election times. Are they likely to get greater consideration, if the Executive Government of Ireland is in the hands of Nationalist Members? It seems to me that while we on this side of the House are determined that this measure shall not-pass into law, yet on the assumption that it might pass, arguing as we must argue in Committee, we can, at any rate, claim; 531 that the inception of the new Government shall be in a form in which you are likely to get the best results, and not in a form which is merely consonant with the party exigencies of hon. Members opposite.
§ Sir RUFUS ISAACSI do not wish really to inflict a third speech upon the Committee on the subject of this Amendment, and in view of the Prime Minister's speech to-day, it really, becomes unnecessary for me to add very much to what has already been said. But at the same time, I do not want to appear discourteous to the hon. Member (Mr. G. Locker-Lampson) in his series of questions to me, and I would answer him that the Prime Minister's speech in substance dealt with all the various points that we have raised. I do not say that he took each one in detail, but the subjects generally were dealt with by the Prime Minister, and certainly if the hon. Member asks me— and I think his speech was worthy of my making this promise to him—I will take into account the various criticisms which he has directed to the Bill. Some of the points he raised have already been raised by the hon. Member (Mr. Cassel) in the criticisms which he offered yesterday, and also to-day, upon the various Clauses of the Bill and I think these are met by what the Prime Minister has said. Some subjects that he has raised again to-day were discussed yesterday and were touched upon by the Prime Minister and they are to form the subject of Amendments which the Prime Minister has said he. will put down. Therefore I do not think I can usefully take up time in travelling through all the various criticisms which we have heard to-day. I only desire to add that although the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. Bonar Law) thought it was some reproach that during the discussion of the Bill we have accepted some suggestions which have fallen from the Opposition and have embodied them in Amendments, I should have thought it was rather a matter of commendation in a Government than one of reproach, that when we have heard criticisms which are worthy of attention, and which we thought really indicated points of substance which had not been properly dealt with in the Bill we have not hesitated, as I think no Government should hesitate, to take those criticisms into account whether they come from one's own side or from the Opposition. The hon. and learned Gentleman (Mr. Cassel) at an earlier date detected some flaw in 532 one of the Clauses. I did not hesitate, and I should not hesitate again, to accept a criticism when I saw it was well founded, and introduce an Amendment which dealt with it.
I certainly do not want now to go further into all the various matters, but I do not desire that any speech made on behalf of the Government should close without my giving an emphatic contradiction to what was suggested, though I do not think the Leader of the Opposition did more than suggest it, that the object of the alteration we are making in Clauses 42 and 4H was to put the Unionist party in some difficulty by passing the Act first, and then in case the election went against the Government the Unionist party would be unable to repeal the Bill. Nor was that intention present to the Government's mind, and every consideration will show that there is no substance in the suggestion that in the alteration we are making as to the time we are making any important alteration. I am not now dealing at all with the points of criticism raised as to the appointed day and the other dates which are given in various Clauses of the Bill. What I am referring to is the statement which the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition made. He did not say it was the object, but he said if it was the intention of the Government to put the Unionist party in a difficulty by this means, it was a very wicked thing. All I desire to say is that there never has been such an intention on the part of the Government. The only object we have in proposing the Amendment which has given rise to this general discussion which was promised was that we could, as we thought, frame the Bill in such a way as to make the administration of Ireland more convenient under the Bill than by fixing the date, as we had already done, as the first Tuesday in September, 1913. The only effect of what we have done is that we have extended the possible period by two months. There was a suggestion made by the hon. Member for Salisbury (Mr. T). Locker - Lampson) that the maximum would be three months. The Prime Minister indicated to-day that, in order to meet any notion of that kind that might be in any hon. Gentleman's mind, we would accept any reasonable suggestion that could be made as to fixing the important dates with respect to the meeting of the Irish Parliament and the reduction of the representatives from Ireland in this Parliament from 103 to forty-two. That is the 533 Government view as expressed by the Prime Minister, and when once that has been stated it meets any possible doubt as to the intention we have in introducing these Amendments, because it gets rid of the suggestions made as to the intention we have in omitting this Sub-section of Clause 42.
§ Mr. G. LOCKER-LAMPSONWould the right hon. Gentleman answer two points which have not been touched upon in the Debate up till now. Would it be possible to have different appointed days for different parts of Ireland, and will the Order in Council under Clause 46 be submitted to the Imperial Parliament before it comes into operation?
§ Sir RUFUS ISAACSThe Order in Council under Clause 46 is an Order with respect to administration. It is not usual to submit such Orders in Council to Parliament. There has never been a question as to submitting that Order in Council to Parliament. Certainly that kind of Order in Council, which is quite well known, is not as a rule submitted to Parliament. The Order in Council to which the hon. Gentleman was referring was one, under Clause 45, as to the transitory provisions. That Order in Council should be submitted to Parliament and lie on the Table for forty days. That
§ is quite the usual form, and there is nothing new in that in it. The other question which the hon. Gentleman put to me was as to whether or not there would be power to make different appointed days. Of course there is, as the Prime Minister has pointed out.
§ Mr. G. LOCKER-LAMPSONI mean different appointed days for different parts of Ireland.
§ Sir RUFUS ISAACSNo, but there will be for different parts of the Act. What is intended is, I think, made quite clear by Clause 46, and there is no suggestion of amending the part, which says—
as may be fixed by Order of His Majesty in Council either generally or with reference to any particular provision of this Act, and different days may be appointed for different purposes and different provisions of this Act.Therefore, while there may be different periods for meeting different provisions under the Act, there will not be different periods for different parts of Ireland.
§ Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 164; Noes, 306.
537| Division No. 412.] | AYES. | [6.37 p.m. |
| Aitken, Sir William Max | Cecil, Lord R. (Herts, Hitchin) | Hardy, Rt. Hon. Laurence |
| Amery, L. C. M. S. | Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Harris, Henry Percy |
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Chambers, James | Harrison-Broadley, H. B. |
| Anstruther-Gray, Major William | Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon) |
| Ashley, W. W. | Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Herbert, Hon. A. (Somerset, S.) |
| Baker, Sir R. L. (Dorset, N.) | Courthope, George Loyd | Hewins, William Albert Samuel |
| Balcarres, Lord | Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.) | Hickman, Colonel Thomas E. |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Craik, Sir Henry | Hill, Sir Clement L. |
| Baring, Maj. Hon. Guy V. (Winchester) | croft, H. P. | Hill-Wood, Samuel |
| Barnston, Harry | Dalzicl, D. (Brixton) | Hoare, S. J. G. |
| Barrie, H. T. | Doughty, Sir George | Hope, Harry (Bute) |
| Bathurst, Hon. A. B, (Glouc, E.) | Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) |
| Bathurst, C. (Wilts, Wilton) | Falle, B. G. | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Fell, Arthur | Home, Wm. E. (Surrey, Guildford) |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Fetherstonhaugh, Godfrey | Houston, Robert Paterson |
| Bentinck, Lord H. Cavendish- | Fitzroy, Hon. Edward A. | Hunt, Rowland |
| Beresford, Lord C. | Flannery, Sir J. Fortescue | Ingleby, Holcombe |
| Bird, A. | Fletcher, John Samuel | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, East) |
| Blair, Reginald | Gardner, Ernest | Jessel, Captain H. M. |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Gastrell, Major W. Houghton | Joynson-Hicks, William |
| Boscawen, Sir Arthur S. T. Griffith- | Gilmour, Captain John | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr |
| Boyle, William (Norfolk, Mid) | Goldman, C. S. | Kerry, Earl of |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Goldsmith, Frank | Kimber, Sir Henry |
| Bull, Sir William James | Gordon, John (Londonderry, South) | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford |
| Butcher, John George | Greene, W. R. | Lane-Fox, G. R. |
| Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. (Dublin Univ.) | Gretton, John | Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bcotle) |
| Carilie, Sir Edward Hildred | Guinness, Hon. W. E. (Bury S. Edmunds) | Lewisham, Viscount |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward H. | Haddock, George Bahr | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. |
| Cator, John | Hall, Fred (Dulwich) | Lonsdale, Sir John Brownlee |
| Cautley, H. S. | Hambro, Angus Valdemar | Lowe, Sir F. W. (Birm., Edgbaston) |
| Cave, George | Hamersley, Alfred St. George | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. A. (S. Geo., Han. S.) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Hamilton, Lord C. J. (Kensington, S.) | Lyttelton, Hon. J. C. (Droitwich) |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Oxford University) | Hamilton, Marquess of (Londonderry) | MacCaw, Wm. J. MacGeagh |
| Mackinder, Halford J. | Rawson, Col. Richard H. | Thynne, Lord A. |
| M'Neill, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) | Rees, Sir J. D. | Touche, George Alexander |
| Magnus, Sir Philip | Remnant, Sir James Farquharson | Tryon, Captain George Clement |
| Malcolm, Ian | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) | Tullibardine, Marquess of |
| Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Samuel, Sir Harry (Norwood) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Middlemore, John Throgmorton | Sanders, Robert Arthur | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
| Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Sanderson, Lancelot | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | Scott, Leslie (Liverpool, Exchange) | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Mount, William Arthur | Smith, Harold (Warrington) | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Neville, Reginald J. N. | Spear, Sir John Ward | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Newton, Harry Kottingham | Stanier, Beville | Wills, Sir Gilbert |
| Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) | Winterton, Earl |
| Norton-Griffiths, J. | Steel-Maitland, A. D. | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. | Stewart, Gershom | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) | Strauss, Arthur (Paddington, North) | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Parkes, Ebenezer | Swift, Rigby | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) | Sykes, Alan John (Ches., Knutsford) | Wright, Henry Fitzherbert |
| Peel, Capt. R. F. (Woodbridge) | Talbot, Lord E. | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Perkins, Walter F. | Terrell, G. (Wilts, N.W.) | |
| Pollock, Ernest Murray | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. |
| Pryce-Jones, Col. E. | Thompson, Robert (Belfast, North) | Cassel and Mr. G. Locker-Lampson |
| Randles, Sir John S. | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Down, North) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardiganshire) | Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.) |
| Adamson, William | De Forest, Baron | Henry, Sir Charles |
| Addison, Dr. C. | Delany, William | Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) |
| Adkins, Sir W. Ryland D. | Denman, Hon. R. D. | Higham, John Sharp |
| Agnew, Sir George William | Devlin, Joseph | Hinds, John |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Dickinson, W. H. | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. |
| Allen, Arthur Acland (Dumbartonshire) | Donelan, Captain A. | Hodge, John |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Doris, William | Hogge, James Myles |
| Arnold, Sydney | Duffy, William J. | Holmes, Daniel Turner |
| Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert Henry | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Holt, Richard Durning |
| Baker, Harold T. (Accrington) | Duncan, J. Hastings (Yorks, Otley) | Hope, John Deans (Haddington) |
| Baker, Joseph Allen (Finsbury, E.) | Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Horne, C. Silvester (Ipswich) |
| Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) | Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey |
| Baring, Sir Godfrey (Barnstaple) | Edwards, John Hugh (Glamorgan, Mid) | Hughes, Spencer Leigh |
| Barlow, Sir John Emmott (Somerset) | Elverston, Sir Harold | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus |
| Barnes, George N. | Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Jardine, Sir J. (Roxburgh) |
| Barton, William | Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | John, Edward Thomas |
| Beale, Sir William Phipson | Esslemont, George Birnie | Jones, Rt. Hon. Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea) |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Falconer, James | Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) |
| Beck, Arthur Cecil | Farrell, James Patrick | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) |
| Benn, W. W. (Tower Hamlets, S. Geo). | Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles | Jones, Leif Stratten (Netts, Rushcliffe) |
| Bentham, George Jackson | French, Peter | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) |
| Bethell, Sir John Henry | Field, William | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward | Jones, William S. Glyn- (Stepney) |
| Black, Arthur W. | Fitzgibbon, John | Jowett, Frederick William |
| Boland, John Pius | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Joyce, Michael |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | France, Gerald Ashburner | Keating, Matthew |
| Bowerman, C. W. | George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd | Kellaway, Frederick George |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Gill, A. H. | Kennedy, Vincent Paul |
| Brace, William | Ginned, L. | Kilbride, Denis |
| Brady, P. J. | Gladstone, W. G. C. | King, J. |
| Brocklehurst, William B. | Glanville, H. J. | Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. (Devon, S. Molton) |
| Brunner, J. F. L. | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Goldstone, Frank | Lardner, James Carrige Rushe |
| Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Greig, Colonel J. W. | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, West) |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Griffith, Ellis Jones | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rid, Cockerm'th) |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Guest, Hon. Major C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Leach, Charles |
| Byles, Sir William Pollard | Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Levy, Sir Maurice |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Lewis, John Herbert |
| Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Hackett, J. | Lough, Rt. Hon. Thomas |
| Cawley, H. T. (Heywood) | Hall, Frederick (Normanton) | Lundon, T. |
| Chancellor, H. G. | Hancock, John George | Lynch, A. A. |
| Chapple, Dr William Allen | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis (Rossendale) | Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) |
| Clancy, John J. | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Burghs) |
| Clough, William | Hardle, J. Keir | McGhee, Richard |
| Clynes, John R. | Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds) | MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) |
| Collins, Godfrey P. (Greenock) | Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) | Macpherson, James Ian |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | MacVeagh, Jeremiah |
| Compton-Rickett, Rt. Hon. Sir J. | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, W.) | M'Callum, Sir John M. |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N.E.) | M'Kean, John |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald |
| Cotton, William Francis | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | M'Laren, Hon. H. D. (Leics.) |
| Crooks, William | Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | M'Micking, Major Gilbert |
| Crumley, Patrick | Hayden, John Patrick | Manfield, Harry |
| Cullinan, John | Hayward, Evan | Marks, Sir George Croydon |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Hazleton, Richard | Marshall, Arthur Harold |
| Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Helme, Sir Norval Watson | Mason, David M. (Coventry) |
| Masterman, Rt. Hon. C. F. G. | Pollard, Sir George H. | Sutherland, J. E. |
| Meagher, Michael | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. | Sutton, John E. |
| Median, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Power, Patrick Joseph | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Menzies, Sir Walter | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Millar, James Duncan | Priestley, Sir W. E. (Bradford) | Taylor, Thomas (Bolton) |
| Molloy, Michael | Pringle, William M. R. | Tennant, Harold John |
| Molteno, Percy Alport | Raffan, Peter Wilson | Thomas, James Henry |
| Mond, Sir Alfred Moritz | Raphael, Sir Herbert H. | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Mooney, J. J. | Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (South Shields) | Thorne, William (West Ham) |
| Morrell, Philip | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) | Toulmin, Sir George |
| Muldoon, John | Reddy, M. | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Munro, R. | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C. | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) | Wadsworth, J. |
| Nannetti, Joseph P. | Rendall, Athelstan | Walsh, Stephen (Lancs., Ince) |
| Needham, Christopher Thomas | Richards, Thomas | Walters, Sir John Tudor |
| Nicholson, Sir Charles N. (Doncaster) | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) | Walton, Sir Joseph |
| Nolan, Joseph | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Norman, Sir Henry | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) |
| Norton, Captain Cecil W. | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs) | Waring, Walter |
| Nugent, Sir Walter Richard | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) | Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan) |
| Nuttall, Harry | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Robinson, Sidney | Watt, Henry Anderson |
| O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Roche, Augustine (Louth) | Webb, H. |
| O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Roe, Sir Thomas | White, J. Dundas (Glas., Tradeston) |
| O'Doherty, Philip | Rowlands, James | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| O'Donncll, Thomas | Rowntree, Arnold | Whittaker, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas P. |
| O'Dowd, John | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter | Whyte, Alexander F. |
| Ogden, Fred | Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. | Wiles, Thomas |
| O'Grady, James | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) | Wilkie, Alexander |
| O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) | William, John (Glamorgan) |
| O'Malley, William | Scanlan, Thomas | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthen) |
| O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) | Schwann, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles E. | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton) | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) |
| O'Shee, James John | Seely, Col. Rt. Hon. J. E. B. | Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Worcs., N.) |
| O'Sullivan, Timothy | Sheehy, David | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Outhwaite, R. L. | Sherwell, Arthur James | Winfrey, Richard |
| Palmer, Godfrey Mark | Shortt, Edward | Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glas.) |
| Parker, James (Halifax) | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook | Young, Samuel (Cavan, E.) |
| Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) | Smith, Albert (Lancs., Clitheroe) | Young, W. (Perthshire, E.) |
| Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim) | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Pearson, Hon. Weetman, H. M. | Snowden, Philip | |
| Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | |
| Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) | Spicer, Rt. Hon. Sir Albert | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. |
| Phillips, John (Longford, S.) | Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N. W.) | Illingworth and Mr. Gulland. |
| Pointer, Joseph | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
§ Mr. SAMUEL ROBERTSI beg to move, in Sub-section (2), to leave out the words "first meeting of the Irish Parliament," and to insert instead thereof the words "passing of the Act."
After the speech from the Prime Minister this afternoon, I rather hoped that the Minister in charge, the Chief Secretary for Ireland, would be able to accept this Amendment. The Prime Minister made it clear that he had been impressed by the arguments used both yesterday and to-day on this point, and he said straight that he saw that there was a grievance, which we had pointed out, that the large number of 103 Irish Members might be kept here for a much longer period by the operation of the Amendments which the Government are now proposing. By the Amendments the larger number can be kept for eight months after the passing of the Act, and then there is another seven if the eight months is extended by Order in Council, and then there is another twelve on top of that. This makes altogether twenty-seven months during which the larger number might be 538 kept in this House by the wish of the Government. It might be that the Government would be anxious to have the larger number of Irish Members here, as they are at the present moment, because if it were not for their Friends below the Gangway we should probably have had them out of office long ago. If the Government have got their Bill, why delay after the passing of the Act the operation of the retirement of the present Members and the election of those who are to succeed them? As the Prime Minister has recognised that this is a real grievance, which might happen according to the exigencies of the Government for the time being, this Amendment gives the right hon. Gentleman the opportunity of getting rid of the grievance, which has been admitted.
§ Mr. BIRRELLI would point out to the hon. Gentleman that if his Amendment were accepted we should have a constitutional difficulty, which, to a constitutionalist like myself, is very serious. You would have 103 Members vacating their seats here with no places where they could get seats for themselves.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLThat is not so if the Amendment is made.
§ Mr. BIRRELLYes, if the Amendment is made.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLI mean the Amendment promised by the Prime Minister.
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Amendment promised by the Prime Minister limits the time, which the Prime Minister fully recognised should be made as short as possible, when there would be 103 Members from Ireland sitting in this House, pending the establishment of the House in their own country, where they could sit. I apprehend that the point which the Prime Minister made was that it was extremely desirable that that period should be curtailed as much as possible, but it cannot be curtailed down to nothing, and though I certainly hope that the Irish Parliament will be set up at the earliest possible date, and that even the period allowed by the Amendment suggested by the Prime Minister will not be reached, still it would be unjust to the Irish constituencies that they should be for some months deprived of any representation in any House whatsoever. It is all very well throwing imputations across the floor of the House, as to the use parties make of Members. That is not the theory of the Constitution. The theory of the Constitution is that Members represent constituencies, and are not mere pawns in the game, either for my right hon. Friend, or the very perfect and autocratic Gentlemen whom I see opposite to me, who are quite willing at the earliest possible moment to take his place. It cannot be true for the purposes of the Amendment, that that is what hon. Members in this House are. I hope it is not true. To the extent to which it is true, it is a disability of their power. We are bound to argue this question on the assumption that it is most desirable that Ireland, and all other parts of the United Kingdom, should be represented constitutionally in this House until such time as the modified Constitution comes into operation, and when the 103 disappear, the forty-two will take their place.
§ Mr. BONAR LAWEither we misunderstood the Prime Minister's promise, or the right hon. Gentleman is arguing on a wrong assumption. We understood the Prime Minister to say that the passing of the Bill would be the same thing as the 540 appointed day. If so, the whole argument of the right hon. Gentleman did not apply.
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe Prime Minister did not say anything of the kind.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLHe did, in the most distinct terms.
§ Mr. BIRRELLNo. What the Prime Minister said was there would be two days—the passing of the Act, when it would receive the Royal Assent, and the day when the Act came into operation; and he pledged himself to introduce an Amendment which would make it perfectly plain what that appointed day was. That is not the passing of the Act.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLHe said so.
§ Mr. BIRRELLHe said nothing of the kind.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLWe will see in the OFFICIAL REPORT to-morrow.
§ Mr. BIRRELLHe agreed that the appointed day should be fixed, that there should be an area within which the termini were to be fixed, and he indicated that there should be a period of time within which the day named might either be accelerated or postponed.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLIt was in answer to the point I made. The Prime Minister stated most distinctly that he had come to the conclusion that the proper way to remedy all these technicalities was that the passing of the Act was to be made by an Amendment to Clause 46, the appointed day. But they were to reserve the power of varying the appointed day for different purposes. He said so in the most distinct way.
§ Sir EDWARD CARSONWhere is the Prime Minister now?
§ Mr. BIRRELLI certainly understood the Prime Minister in the way in which I have said. I thought the Prime Minister took the most extraordinary pains, step by step, to keep the matter clear to right hon. Gentlemen opposite. It now appears that he completely failed.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLNo, he was perfectly clear.
§ Mr. BIRRELLI do not see what the object of the Amendment is. It is impossible for us to accept the proposition that I the 103 Irish Members should cease to be 541 in this House until such time as there is a House in Ireland for them to carry their representation to.
§ Mr. CASSELI think that the right hon. Gentleman has not very carefully studied the Bill when he made his answer to this Amendment. He seemed to think that the effect of this Amendment would be to leave Irish constituencies unrepresented for a longer time than they would be under the Bill. That is not the effect of the Amendment at all, because whether you have the Amendment or the Bill as it stands the period during which the Irish constituencies are unrepresented is precisely the same. It is the period which it takes to elect the forty-two after the 103 have vacated their seats.
§ Mr. BIRRELLI was speaking of the Irish Members.
§ Mr. CASSELI am on the Clause under which Irish constituencies are represented.
§ Mr. BIRRELLI am speaking of in Ireland, and they cannot be represented there until the Parliament is set up.
§ Mr. CASSELAs we go on from Clause to Clause we find out more and more that the Government do not know their own Bill. Yesterday we found out that they did not understand when the Executive commenced or when the Parliament commenced, and to-day the right hon. Gentle man seems to think that this is a question of the Irish Parliament. It is not. It is a question of representation of Irish constituencies in the Parliament of the United Kingdom. So far as that is concerned the Amendment does not in the least alter even by one minute the period during which Irish constituencies are unrepresented in this House. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree with me that the Amendment docs not in the least alter that period?
§ Mr. BIRRELLThe hon. Member does not understand what I said. What I said w as the condition on which the Irish Members themselves consented to the reduction of their number from 103 to forty-two was that they should have an Irish House in which they would be able to sit as representatives of Irish opinion in that House. Until that Irish House is established, it would be unreasonable to reduce the number here from 103 to forty-two.
§ 7.0 P.M.
§ Mr. CASSELWith reference to that point, at present we have got two contra- 542 dictory proposals. He has got one proposal in Clause 13 that it shall be delayed till after the appointed day, but the appointed day is not the day of the first meeting of the Irish Parliament. I have tried on several occasions to make that clear to the right hon Gentleman. The appointed day is the day on which there is a Parliament in Ireland; it is not the day of the first meeting of the Irish Parliament. Surely it is not right that we should have an intervening period between the date; that you have a Parliament in Ireland and the date of its first meeting, during which these gentlemen are still to be in this House. The date of the first meeting is nowhere expressly defined in the Bill. The right hon. Gentleman may read the amended Bill through from the first word to the last and he will not find a single provision which fixes the meeting of the first Parliament, except Clause 6, that it must meet within the year. What we want to get rid of is that period of a year. I do not think the right hon. Gentleman understood our object. Our object is to get rid of the intervening period between the time when there is a Parliament in Ireland and the first meeting of the Irish Parliament, which period may be a period of a year, during which these gentlemen will have a Parliament in Ireland if only they choose to meet there, and at the same time Irish Members are still to come here and have the right to take part in our deliberations.
I am quite sure that if the Prime Minister were here he would agree that the words in the Bill as it stands are impossible, if for no other reason than the fact that there are these two contradictory provisions in the Bill. Would the right hon. Gentleman mind reading Sub-section (1) of Clause 13, which says that "after the appointed day the number of members returned by constituencies in Ireland to serve in the Parliament of the United Kingdom, shall be forty-two"; so that, assuming there is an appointed day, any particular day that the right hon. Gentleman may like to name, on that day they provide that there shall only be forty-two Irish Members in this House, when, as a matter of fact, in Clause 42, Subsection (2), there is an entirely different position, namely, that the 103 Members only vacate their seats on a date which may be made by Order alone. You cannot possibly leave those two provisions in the Bill. It is a vitally important question whether we are to have 543 103 Members in this House or forty-two Members. On a point of that description, which may turn the position of Parliament in this House, you cannot have two contradictory provisions in this Bill. I submit that the right date would be the date of the passing of the Act, which, I understand, is to be the appointed day; but whether that is so or not, I submit that is the right date. From the moment you place upon the Statute Book an Act of Parliament which says that there is to be a certain representation of Ireland in this House, from that moment we, as representatives of constituencies in Great Britain, are entitled to object to Irish Members continuing to be here in the same number as at present.
§ Mr. BIRRELLWhy?
§ Mr. CASSELThe right hon. Gentleman has himself admitted that we are reducing their number, and I say that ought to take effect from the moment the Act of Parliament is passed which creates the Irish Legislature. It is absurd and unreasonable, on the grounds I gave on a previous Amendment, that there should be any Irish representation in this House by persons who would have the right to control British affairs; but if you are to have them, then I say that from the date of the Act of Parliament, the number ought to be reduced. Whatever else you may do, in regard to the provisions of this Clause, you cannot leave the Bill as it is at present, for it would be absolutely and hopelessly inconsistent.
§ Sir E. CARSONI certainly understood in the earlier part of the day that the Prime Minister stated that, to get over the difficulty as regards various provisions in this Act with reference to the passing of the Act, that the appointed day shall, for the purposes of the Act, be considered the date of the passing of the Act.
§ The PRIME MINISTERNo; I never said that. I was not here when this question was raised, because I was receiving a deputation, and I left them speaking. I said, on the contrary, that I thought the date of the operation, the commencement of the operation of the Act, ought to be the appointed day, and not the date of the passing of the Act. I quoted the precedents of the Irish Local Government Act and the English Education Act.
§ Sir E. CARSONI may have expressed myself wrongly, but I think we mean 544 really the same thing. What I said was that the Prime Minister stated that the Clauses of the Act would not come into effect until the appointed day instead of coming into effect, as they would otherwise, on the passing of the Act.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI did not, of course, accept the view, although I did not controvert it, that the Bill as now drawn will come into effect on the passing of the Act. I did not accept that, but I said that I would make it clear that it could not come into operation until the date of the commencement of the operation of the Act, which I also said ought to be the same as the appointed day.
§ Sir E. CARSONThat is exactly what I understand. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh, oh!"] This is the last night we shall have to discuss the Clauses of this Bill. The question before us is one of very grave complication, and I have frequently noticed that the man laughs most who understands least. The real truth of the matter is that if we wanted to leave this measure complicated and in a state of chaos we have only to do nothing at all. I do not suppose it would benefit us one way or the other if what is called a concession were, made in order to set right the drafting or the Bill, and to make it into sense where it is nonsense at the present moment. I understood the Prime Minister, as regards Clause 27, to concede that the "passing of the Act" in that Clause did mean, in reference to the appointment of judges, that the appointment on the passing of the Act was immediately to lapse to the Lord Lieutenant.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI think those words should be omitted.
§ Sir E. CARSONIf the Clauses of the Act are to come into operation on the appointed day, surely there ought to be something regulating the time when the. Irish Members cease to be Members of this House. I do not care whether it be the appointed day, or whether it be on the passing of the Act, or whether it be as in the case of the judges, it is perfectly clear that you must refer to some particular date as the time at which Irish Members are to cease to have seats in this House. I think an examination of the Bill will show that to make it hang together it must be the appointed date. If you look at Clause 13 you see that after the appointed date the number of Members 545 returned by constituencies in Ireland to serve in the Parliament of the United Kingdom shall be forty-two. Therefore, at that time, the 103 Members must have ceased to be Members of this House. When, therefore, do they cease to be Members of this House? Ought it not to be on the appointed day, after the Members are reduced from 103 to forty-two? I cannot see how you are to make these two things hang together unless the two things are coterminous. Forty-two Members coming into this House from the Irish constituencies on, according to Clause 13, the appointed date, and the 103 Members here already should go out at the same time. Then you will have the two things hanging together, and you will be able to make your Bill work. But look at how you deal with it in the other way. The appointed day apparently will be the first Tuesday in eight months after the passing of the Bill. On the first Tuesday in eight months after the passing of the Bill forty-two Members are to be sent to this House. But the Irish House of Commons may not have met then, and may not meet until long afterwards, and so you will have 103 Members here and forty-two Members under Clause 13. There is nothing to meet that in the Bill, now that you have struck out the first Sub-section by the last Amendment. You have said that the Irish Parliament shall meet on the first Tuesday in September. There is no date now in the Bill, nor is there any date proposed, and all we have is that they must meet once a year. When is that to date from? I do not know, but I suppose from the appointed day, and the appointed day is the first Tuesday in eight months after the passing of the Bill, and within a year after that. For a year and eight months there may be no Irish Parliament at all, and still on the appointed day forty-two Members will be sent here. I submit that the Bill will not work in its present form, unless there is some Amendment made. If not, then the Amendment of my hon. Friend should be accepted, making the appointed day with reference to Members going out of the House, and the forty-two Members coming into the House.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI quite see the point, and certainly I shall endeavour to meet it. It might be met, I think, under Clause 46, by an Order in Council assimilating the two dates. I quite agree that there ought not to be a period when there is no representation of Ireland here, and 546 while there is no Irish Parliament existing there. We all agree about that. It may be obviated, I think by a Provisional Order under Clause 46. It might also be met by accelerating and providing a date within which the first meeting of the Irish Parliament must take place under Subsection (2), or it might be met by postponing the operation of Sub-section (1) of Clause 13, until the time when the Irish Parliament does meet Those are three possible ways of meeting the matter. I am disposed to think that the Bill sufficiently provides for it by Clause 46, but I will consider whether it is so or not.
§ Sir F. BANBURYI would point out that the last suggestion of the Prime Minister to postpone Clause 13 is not a good one, because the result of that would be that we might have the 103 Irish Members here for a long time. The real object of the Bill, or I understand it is one of the objects advanced by hon. Gentlemen opposite, is to get rid of the Irish Members here, and of the congestion of business. Therefore the sooner we get rid of them the better. I think the right hon. Gentleman will agree to that, and when he considers the best way to meet the difficulty, I hope he will not meet it in the way in which he suggested last.
§ Mr. J. H. CAMPBELLI will just point out to the right hon. Gentleman that in his absence we were left completely under a misapprehension as regards the very specific statement the Prime Minister made in reply to the remarks I ventured to address to the Committee. The right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary apparently did not understand.
§ Mr. BIRRELLIt was I who understood it, and it was you who did not.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLI will now proceed to demonstrate that he had not the faintest notion of what the undertaking given by the Prime Minister was. There was no doubt in my mind as to what it was, and no difference between the Prime Minister's recollection and mine. It was this. I took occasion to point out that while in Clause 46 you made provision for an appointed day, you omitted to take notice that under various other Clauses the Act must come into operation on the day it passed, either as the result of express enactment, or as a result of legal influence which, in the absence of limitation, would be the day the Bill passed. The right hon. Gentleman very graciously 547 and readily agreed, and he said the best way to provide for that was to put in words that would make the appointed day the passing of the Act.
§ The PRIME MINISTERNo, no. To make it the commencement of the operation.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLThat is the same thing.
§ The PRIME MINISTERNo, it is not.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLThe right hon. Gentleman will do his best to get the Chief Secretary out of a hole, but I want to say that so far as he and I are concerned, we are entirely agreed. [An HON. MEMBER: "No, no."] The hon. Member who made that interruption, I am quite certain, yields to no one in his ignorance on the entire contents of this Bill. I was dealing with the point raised by the Chief Secretary. There was not and is not now any difference of recollection or conflict of opinion between myself and the Prime Minister as to what occurred. What he said was this, that in order to get rid of these difficulties he would make the date when the Bill came into operation the appointed day. I never understood him to say anything else.
§ The PRIME MINISTERThat is what I said.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLI am quite sure the Chief Secretary is beginning to see some light now, but that is absolutely inconsistent with the Chief Secretary's argument in reply to my hon. Friend's Amendment, and I will tell you why. Of course, we all understood that the Chief Secretary never took the trouble to read the Bill. The Amendment of my hon. Friend is to insert the words "passing of this Act." The effect of that would have been, coupled with the Prime Minister's Amendment, to make the date of the passing of the Act the same date as the date when, under Clause 46, the Bill was to come into operation—[HON. MEMBERS: "No, no"]—and therefore would have carried out the express purpose and the very thing that the Prime Minister said he was going to do as a result of the Amendment to Clause 46. In other words, once the Prime Minister's Amendment appeared in Clause 46, where-ever you found in the Bill "passing of the Act," that meant, as defined in Clause 46, with the new Amendment, the date when the Act was to come into operation, namely, 548 the appointed day. Therefore, the Amendment which is now moved, and which the right hon. Gentleman said was going to revolutionise the whole Bill, would have been exactly on the lines of the concession, the suggested concession, of the right hon. Gentleman the Prime Minister, and would have carried out his purpose.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLI wish the hon. Member would get upon his legs, and not keep continually interrupting.
§ The CHAIRMANMay I say, and I have said it before, that it does not advance discussion, even if Members disagree with something that is said, to be continually saying "No, no," on one side or the other.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLI am the last to object to any interruption if I am misrepresenting anybody or misquoting anything, but when it is merely stating my own views, and when there is every opportunity to the hon. Member afterwards to get up, I think under the conditions under which we are debating that it is only fair to let me state my case. I want to make it perfectly plain why it is I say that the Amendment which is now moved ought to have been accepted. The Amendment is to insert "passing of the Act." Once the Prime Minister's Amendment is put into the Bill, wherever the words "passing of the Act" occur they will be construed in the sense defined in Clause 46—that;s to say, they will be construed as the date when the Act comes into operation, namely, the appointed day. Therefore this Amendment expressly and directly carries out and follows the very lines of the Amendment which the Prime Minister said he felt coerced to make in Clause 46 in order to make the Bill clear. In other words, he gets rid of the difficulty that some matters would come into operation on the passing of the Act. As he did not intend that, he amends that to mean when the Act came into operation, namely, the appointed day. The result of that would be that wherever "passing of the Act" is found, it would be construed as meaning the appointed day. In accordance with that the hon. Member moves that the words be inserted here, namely, "passing of the Act." The right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary gets up and says that will destroy the whole scope of these provisions. I say they are in direct conformity with the pledge given by the right hon. Gentleman, and will 549 bring the Bill, or this part of the Bill, into harmony with the provisions which the Prime Minister says he is going to insert in Clause 46.
§ The PRIME MINISTERLet me make it perfectly clear. My undertaking was not that wherever the words "passing of this Act" are used in the Bill they should be synonymous with the commencement of the operation of the Bill. The illustration I myself took was Clause 14, Sub-section (2) (a), which deals with the Transferred Sum. There the date at which the figures are to be calculated refers to the time of the passing of the Act. That I intend to remain. Again, if you look at another set of provisions, namely, those which are to be found in Clause 33 and subsequent Clauses dealing with officers, there the critical date for the removal of any officer is at the time of the passing of the Act.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLThat does not touch the Amendment.
§ The PRIME MINISTERI want to make it quite clear. I do not believe the right hon. Gentleman really misunderstood, but there were some phrases he used which conveyed that I had said that wherever the words "passing of the Act" were found they were to be translated into commencement of the operation. I am quite clear it is not so where we are dealing, as in certain Clauses, with dates such as the date of the Transferred Sum and the date as to officers in the service of the Irish Government. In Clause 27 I agree the words ought to be deleted.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLWhat about the Clause setting up the Executive?
§ The PRIME MINISTERThe phrase does not occur there.
§ Mr. CAMPBELLAre you going to include that in the appointed day?
§ The PRIME MINISTERI include the whole Act, subject, of course, to the powers under Clause 46, to anticipate by
§ Order in Council the machinery. Is that clear?
§ Mr. CAMPBELLI quite understand.
§ The PRIME MINISTERIt is also clear what I have said is where you are really determining the date at which a particular service shall be calculated or a particular office shall be terminated there the passing of the Act is the date, not the commencement of the operation of the Act.
§ Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSONThe proper words are the words "at the commencement of the operation of the Act," and not the words "first meeting of the Irish Parliament." If I apprehend the Prime Minister's speech aright, the critical point is the commencement of the operation of the Act—that is to say, the first of the different appointed days which may have to be appointed. I suggest it is quite clear that the words "upon the first meeting of the Irish Parliament" ought to be left out, and the words "on the commencement of the operation of the Act" inserted.
§ The PRIME MINISTERThat is not the Amendment.
§ Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSONThe Amendment is to leave those words out.
§ Mr. T. P. O'CONNORDo hon. Members above the Gangway seriously propose that the Irish Members who at present are in the Imperial Parliament should disappear from that Parliament before the Irish Parliament comes into existence?
§ Mr. T. P. O'CONNORThat is the meaning of the Amendment.
§ Question put, "That the words proposed 10 be left out stand part of the Clause."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 321; Noes, 198.
553| Division No. 413.] | AYES. | [7.30 p.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Baker, Harold T. (Accrington) | Bentham, George Jackson |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Baker, Joseph Allen (Finsbury, E.) | Bethell, Sir John Henry |
| Adamson, William | Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) | Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine |
| Addison, Dr. Christopher | Baring, Sir Godfrey (Barnstaple) | Black,. Arthur W. |
| Adkins, Sir W. Ryland D. | Barlow, Sir John Emmott (Somerset) | Boland, John Plus |
| Agnew, Sir George William | Barnes, George N. | Booth, Frederick Handel |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Barton, William | Bowerman, C. W. |
| Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbarton) | Beale, Sir William Phipson | Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Brace, William |
| Arnold, Sydney | Beck, Arthur Cecil | Brady, P. J. |
| Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert Henry | Benn, W. W. (Tower Hamlets, S. Geo.) | Brocklehurst, William B. |
| Brunner, J. F. L. | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Norman, Sir Henry |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Norton, Capt. Cecil W. |
| Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | Nugent, Sir Walter Richard |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Hayden, John Patrick | Nuttall, Harry |
| Burns, Rt. Hen. John | Hayward, Evan | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Buxton, Rt. Hen. Sydney C. (Poplar) | Hazleton, Richard | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Byles, Sir William Pollard | Healy, Timothy Michael (Cork, N. E.) | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Helme, Sir Norval Watson | O'Doherty, Philip |
| Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Donnell, Thomas |
| Cawley, H. T. (Heywood) | Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.) | O'Dewd, John |
| Chancellor, H. G. | Henry, Sir Charles | Ogden, Fred |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | O'Grady, James |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Higham, John Sharp | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Clough, William | Hinds, John | O'Malley, William |
| Clynes, John R. | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) |
| Collins, Godfrey P. (Greenock) | Hodge, John | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Hogge, James Myles | O'Shee, James John |
| Compton-Rickett, Rt. Hon. Sir J. | Holmes, Daniel Turner | O'Sullivan, Timothy |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Hope, John Deans (Haddington) | Outhwaite, R. L. |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Horne, C. Silvester (Ipswich) | Palmer, Godfrey Mark |
| Cotton, William Francis | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Hughes, Spencer Leigh | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) |
| Crean, Eugene | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus | Pearce, William (Limehouse) |
| Crooks, William | Jardine, Sir J. (Roxburgh) | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) |
| Crumley, Patrick | John, Edward Thomas | Philippe, Col. Sir Ivor (Southampton) |
| Cullinan, John | Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) |
| Dalziel, Rt. Hon. sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy) | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Pointer, Joseph |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) | Pollard, Sir George H. |
| Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Jones, Lelf Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H |
| Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardiganshire) | Jones, W. S. Glyn- (T. H'mts, Stepney) | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Dawes, J. A. | Jowett, Frederick William | Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) |
| De Forest, Baron | Joyce, Michael | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) |
| Delany, William | Keating, Matthew | Primrose, Hon. Neil James |
| Denman, Hon. R. D. | Kellaway, Frederick George | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Devlin, Joseph | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Radford, G. H. |
| Dickinson, W. H. | Kilbride, Denis | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Donelan, Captain A. | King, J. | Raphael, Sir Herbert H. |
| Doris, William | Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. (Devon, S. Molton) | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Duffy, William J. | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Reddy, M. |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Lardner, James Carrige Rushe | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Duncan, J. Hastings (Yorks, Otley) | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, West) | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) |
| Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rid, Cockerm'th) | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Leach, Charles | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Edwards, John Hugh (Glamorgan, Mid) | Levy, Sir Maurice | Richards, Thomas |
| Elverston, Sir Harold | Lewis, John Herbert | Richardson, Albion (Peckham) |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Lough, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Lundon, T, | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Esslemont, George Birnie | Lynch, A. A. | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Falconer, James | Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs) |
| Farrell, James Patrick | Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Burghs) | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) |
| Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles | McGhee, Richard | Robertson, John M. (Tyneside) |
| Ffrench, Peter | MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) | Robinson, Sidney |
| Field, William | Macpherson, James Ian | Roche, Augustine (Louth) |
| Fitzgibbon, John | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | M'Callum, Sir John M. | Rose, Sir Charles Day |
| France, Gerald Ashburner | M'Kean, John | Rowlands, James |
| George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Rowntree, Arnold |
| Gilhooly, James | M'Laren, Hon. H. D. (Leics.) | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter |
| Gill, A. H. | M'Laren, Hon. F. W. S. (Lincs., Spalding) | Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. |
| Ginnell, L. | M'Micking, Major Gilbert | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Gladstone, W. G. C. | Manfield, Harry | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Glanville, H. J. | Markham, Sir Arthur Basil | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Marks, Sir George Croydon | Schwann, Rt. Hon. Sir C. E. |
| Goldstone, Frank | Marshall, Arthur Harold | Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton) |
| Greenwood, Hamar (Sunderland) | Mason, David M. (Coventry) | Sheehy, David |
| Greig, Colonel J. W. | Master man, Rt. Hon. C. F. G. | Sherwell, Arthur James |
| Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward | Meagher, Michael | Shortt, Edward |
| Griffith, Ellis Jones | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook |
| Guest, Major Hon. C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Menzies, Sir Walter | Smith, Albert (Lanes., Clitheroe) |
| Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Millar, James Duncan | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Guiney, Patrick | Molloy, Michael | Snowden, Philip |
| Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Molteno, Percy Alport | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Hackett, J. | Mond, Sir Alfred Moritz | Spicer, Rt. Hon. Sir Albert |
| Hall, Frederick (Normanton) | Mooney, John J. | Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N. W.) |
| Hancock, John George | Morrell, Philip | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis (Rossendale) | Muldoon, John | Sutherland, J. E. |
| Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Munro, R. | Sutton, John E. |
| Hardie, J. Keir | Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C. | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds) | Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Taylor, Thomas (Bolton) |
| Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Needham, Christopher Thomas | Tennant, Harold John |
| Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, W.) | Nicholson, Sir Charles N. (Doncaster) | Thomas, J. H. |
| Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Nolan, Joseph | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Thorne, William (West Ham) | Waring, Walter | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthen) |
| Toulmin, Sir George | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| Trevelyan, Charles Philips | Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan) | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) |
| Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) | Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Worcs., N) |
| Verney, Sir Harry | Watt, Henry A. | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Wadsworth, J. | Webb, H. | Winfrey, Richard |
| Walsh, J. (Cork, South) | White, J. Dundas (Glasgow, Tradeston) | Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glas.) |
| Walsh, Stephen (Lancs., Ince) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) | Young, Samuel (Cavan, East) |
| Walters, Sir John Tudor | Whittaker, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas P. | Young, William (Perth, East) |
| Walton, Sir Joseph | Whyte, A. F. (Perth) | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) | Wiles, Thomas | |
| Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) | Wilkie, Alexander | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr |
| Wardle, George J. | Williams, J. (Glamorgan) | Illingworth and Mr. Gulland. |
| NOES. | ||
| Aitken, Sir William Max | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) |
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Grant, J. A. | Nield, Herbert |
| Anstruther-Gray, Major William | Greene, W. R. | Norton-Griffiths, J. |
| Archer-Shee, Major | Gretton, John | Orde-Powiett, Hon. W. G. A. |
| Ashley, W. W. | Guinness, Hon. Rupert (Essex, S. E.) | Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) |
| Baker, Sir R. L. (Dorset, N.) | Guinness, Hon. W.E. (Bury S. Edmunds) | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Balcarres, Lord | Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Baldwin, Stanley | Haddock, George Bahr | Peel, Captain R. F. (Woodbridge) |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) | Perkins, Walter Frank |
| Baring, Maj. Hon. Guy V. (Winchester) | Hall, Fred (Dulwich) | Pole-Carew, Sir R. |
| Barlow, Montague (Salford, South) | Hall, Marshall (L'pool, E. Toxteth) | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. (M'tgom'y B'ghs.) |
| Barnston, H. | Hambro, Angus Valdemar | Quilter, Sir William Eley C. |
| Barrie, H. T. | Hamersley, Alfred St. George | Randles, Sir John S. |
| Bathurst, Hon. A. B. (Glouc, E.) | Hamilton, Lord C. J. (Kensington, S.) | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hamilton, Marquess of (Londonderry) | Rawson, Col. R. H. |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hardy, Rt. Hon. Laurence | Rees, Sir J. D. |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Harris, Henry Percy | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Bentinck, Lord H. Cavendish- | Harrison-Broadley, H. B. | Rolleston, Sir John |
| Beresford, Lord C. | Henderson, Major H. (Berks, Abingdon) | Royds, Edmund |
| Bird, A. | Herbert, Hon. A. (Somerset, S.) | Rutherford, John (Lancs., Darwen) |
| Blair, Reginald | Hewins, William Albert Samuel | Rutherford, Watson (L'pool, W. Derby) |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Hickman, Colonel Thomas E. | Samuel, Sir Harry (Norwood) |
| Boyle, William (Norfolk, Mid) | Hill, Sir Clement L. | Sanders, Robert A. |
| Boyton, James | Hills, John Waller | Sanderson, Lancelot |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hill-Wood, Samuel | Sassoon, Sir Philip |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Hoare, S. J. G. | Scott, Leslie (Liverpool, Exchange) |
| Butcher, John George | Hope, Harry (Bute) | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. (Dublin Univ.) | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Smith, Harold (Warrington) |
| Carlile, Sir Edward Hildred | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) | Spear, Sir John Ward |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward H. | Home, Wm. E. (Surrey, Guildford) | Stanier, Beville |
| Cassel, Felix | Horner, Andrew Long | Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk) |
| Cator, John | Houston, Robert Paterson | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Cautley, H. S. | Hunt, Rowland | Starkey, John R. |
| Cave, George | Ingleby, Holcombe | Steel-Maitland, A. D. |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) | Stewart, Gershom |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Oxford University) | Jessel, Capt. H. M. | Strauss, Arthur (Paddington, North) |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Herts, Hitchin) | Joynson-Hicks, William | Swift, Rigby |
| Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Sykes, Alan John (Ches., Knutstord) |
| Chambers, James | Kerry, Earl of | Talbot, Lord E. |
| Clive, Captain Percy Archer | Kimber, Sir Henry | Terrell, G. (Wilts., N. W.) |
| Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Terrell, H. (Gloucester) |
| Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford | Thompson, Robert (Belfast, N.) |
| Courthope, George Loyd | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Down, N.) |
| Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.) | Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle) | Thynne, Lord Alexander |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Lawson, Hon. H. (T. H'mts, Mile End) | Touche, George Alexander |
| Croft, Henry Page | Lee, Arthur Hamilton | Tryon, Captain George Clement |
| Dalziel, D. (Brixton) | Lewisham, Viscount | Tullibardine, Marquess of |
| Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott | Locker-Lampson, G. (Salisbury) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Doughty, Sir George | Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
| Duke, Henry Edward | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Lonsdale, Sir J. Brownlee | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Faber, George Denison (Clapham) | Lowe, Sir F. W. (Birm., Edgbaston) | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Falle, B. G. | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. A. (S. Geo., Han. S.) | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Fell, Arthur | Lyttelton, Hon. J. C. (Droitwich) | Wills, Sir Gilbert |
| Fetherstonhaugh, Godfrey | MacCaw, Wm. J. MacGeagh | Wilson, A. Stanley (Yorks, E. R.) |
| Finlay, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert | Mackinder, Halford J. | Winterton, Earl |
| Fisher, Rt. Hon. W. Hayes | Macmaster, Donald | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Ripon) |
| Fitzroy, Hon. Edward A. | M'Ncill, Ronald (Kent. St. Augustine's) | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Flannery, Sir J. Fortescue | Magnus, Sir Philip | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Fletcher, John Samuel | Malcolm, Ian | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Gardner, Ernest | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Wright, Henry Fitzherbert |
| Gastrell, Major W. Houghton | Middlemore, John Throgmorton | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Gilmour, Captain John | Midmay, Francis Bingham | Yate, Col. Charles Edward |
| Goldman, C. S. | Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | Younger, Sir George |
| Goldsmith, Frank | Mount, William Arthur | |
| Gordon, John (Londonderry, South) | Neville, Reginald J. N. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. |
| Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Newton, Harry Kottingham | Samuel Roberts and Sir H. Craik. |
§ It being after half-past Seven of the clock, the Chairman proceeded, pursuant to the Order of the House of the 14th October, successively to put forthwith the Question on any Amendments moved by the Government, of which notice had been given, and the Questions necessary to dispose of the business to be concluded at half-past Seven of the clock at this day's sitting
556§ Government Amendment: In Subsection (3), leave out the words "Subject to the provisions of this Act."—[Mr. Birrell.]
§ Question put, "That the Amendment be made."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 321; Noes, 197.
559| Division No. 414.] | AYES. | [7.40 p.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Devlin, Joseph | Hodge, John |
| Adamson, William | Dickinson, W. H. | Hogge, James Myles |
| Adkins, Sir W. Ryland D. | Donelan, Captain A. | Holmes, Daniel Turner |
| Agnew, Sir George William | Doris, William | Holt, Richard Durning |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Duffy, William J. | Hope, John Deans (Haddington) |
| Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbartonshire) | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Home, Charles Silvester (Ipswich) |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Duncan, J. Hastings (York, Otley) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey |
| Arnold, Sydney | Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Hughes, S. L. |
| Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert Henry | Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus |
| Baker, H. T. (Accrington) | Jardine, Sir J. (Roxburgh) | |
| Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) | Edwards, John Hugh (Glamorgan, Mid) | John, Edward Thomas |
| Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) | Elverston, Sir Harold | Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) |
| Baring, Sir Godfrey (Barnstaple) | Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) |
| Barlow, Sir John Emmott (Somerset) | Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) |
| Barnes, G. N. | Esslemont, George Birnie | Jones, Lelf Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) |
| Barton, William | Falconer, James | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) |
| Beale, Sir William Phlpson | Farrell, James Patrick | Jones, W. S. Glyn- (Stepney) |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles | Jowett, F. W. |
| Benn, W. W. (T. H'mts., St. George) | Ffrench, Peter | Joyce, Michael |
| Bentham, G. J. | Field, William | Keating, Matthew |
| Bethell, Sir J. H. | Fitzgibbon, John | Kellaway, Frederick George |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Kennedy, Vincent Paul |
| Black, Arthur W. | France, Gerald Ashburner | Kilbride, Denis |
| Boland, John Pius | George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd | King, J. (Somerset, North) |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Gilhooly, James | Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. (Devon, s. Molton) |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Gill, A. H. | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Ginnell, Laurence | Lardner, James Carrige Rushe |
| Brace, William | Gladstone, W. G. C. | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Glanville, H. J. | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rlnd, Cockerm'th) |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Leach, Charles |
| Brunner, John F. L. | Goldstone, Frank | Levy, Sir Maurice |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Greenwood, Hamar (Sunderland) | Lewis, John Herbert |
| Buckmaster, Stanley 0. | Greig, Col. J. W. | Lough, Rt. Hon. Thomas |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward | Lundon, Thomas |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Griffith, Ellis J. | Lynch, A. A. |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney C. (Poplar) | Guest, Hon. Major C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) |
| Byles, Sir William Pollard | Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | McGliee, Richard |
| Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Guiney, Patrick | MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) |
| Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Macpherson, James Ian |
| Cawley, Harold T. (Heywood) | Hackett, John | MacVeagh, Jeremiah |
| Chancellor, Henry George | Hall, Frederick (Normanton) | M'Callum, Sir John M. |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Hancock, J. G. | M'Curdy, C. A. |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis (Rossendale) | M'Kean, John |
| Clough, William | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald |
| Clynes, John R. | Hardie, J. Keir | M'Laren, Hon. H. D. (Leics.) |
| Collins, G. P. (Greenock) | Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds.) | M'Laren, Hon, F. W. S. (Lines., Spalding) |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) | M'Micking, Major Gilbert |
| Compton-Rickett, Rt. Hon. Sir J. | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Manfield, Harry |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Markham, Sir Arthur Basil |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A | Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Marks, Sir George Croydon |
| Cotton, William Francis | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Marshall, Arthur Harold |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Mason, David M. (Coventry) |
| Crean, Eugene | Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | Masterman, Rt. Hon. C. F. G. |
| Crooks, William | Hayden, John Patrick | Meagher, Michael |
| Crumley, Patrick | Hayward, Evan | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) |
| Cullinan, John | Hazleton, Richard | Menzies, Sir Walter |
| Dalziel, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy) | Healy, Timothy Michael (Cork, East) | Millar, James Duncan |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Helme, Sir Norval Watson | Molloy, Michael |
| Davies, Timothy (Lines., Louth) | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Molteno, Percy Alport |
| Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.) | Mond, Sir Alfred M. |
| Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan) | Henry, Sir Charles | Mooney, John J. |
| Dawes, J. A. | Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | Morrell, Philip |
| De Forest, Baron | Higham, John Sharp | Muldoon, John |
| Delany, William | Hinds, John | Munro, R. |
| Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C. | Raphael, Sir Herbert H. | Tennant, Harold John |
| Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) | Thomas, James Henry |
| Nannettl, Joseph P. | Reddy, M. | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Needham, Christopher T. | Redmond, John E. (Watertord) | Thorne, William (West Ham) |
| Nicholson, Sir Charles N. (Doncaster) | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) | Toulmin, Sir George |
| Nolan, Joseph | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Norman, Sir Henry | Rendall, Athelstan | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Norton, Captain Cecil W. | Richards, Thomas | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Nugent, Sir Walter Richard | Richardson, Albion (Peckham) | Wadsworth, J. |
| Nuttall, Harry | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) | Walsh, J. (Cork, South) |
| O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | Walsh, Stephen (Lanes., Ince) |
| O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Walters, Sir John Tudor |
| O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs) | Walton, Sir Joseph |
| O'Doherty, Philip | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| O'Donnell, Thomas | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) |
| O'Dowd, John | Robinson, Sidney | Wardle, George J. |
| Ogden, Fred | Roche, Augustine (Louth) | Waring, Walter |
| O'Grady, James | Roe, Sir Thomas | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay |
| O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) | Rose, Sir Charles Day | Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan) |
| O'Malley, William | Rowlands, James | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) | Rowntree, Arnold | Watt, Henry Anderson |
| O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter | Webb, H. |
| O'Shee, James John | Russell, Rt. Hon, Thomas W. | White, J. Dundas (Glas., Tradeston) |
| O'Sullivan, Timothy | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Outhwaite, R. L. | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) | Whittaker, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas P. |
| Palmer, Godfrey Mark | Scanlan, Thomas | Whyte, A. F. (Perth) |
| Parker, James (Halifax) | Schwann, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles E. | Wiles, Thomas |
| Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) | Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton) | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Sheeny, David | Williams, John (Glamorgan) |
| Pearson, Hon. Weetman H. M. | Sherwell, Arthur James | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthen) |
| Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) | Shortt, Edward | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) |
| Phillips, John (Longford, S.) | Smith, Albert (Lanes., Clitheroe) | Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Worcs., N.) |
| Pointer, Joseph | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Pollard, Sir George H. | Snowden, Philip | Winfrey, Richard |
| Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glas.) |
| Power, Patrick Joseph | Spicer, Rt. Hon. Sir Albert | Young, Samuel (Cavan, E.) |
| Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) | Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N. W.) | Young, W. (Perthshire, E.) |
| Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Priestley, Sir W. E. (Bradford) | Sutherland, J. E. | |
| Primrose, Hon. Neil James | Sutton, John E. | |
| Pringle, William M. R. | Taylor, John W. (Durham) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. |
| Radford, G. H. | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Illingworth and Mr. Gulland. |
| Raffan, Peter Wilson | Taylor, Thomas (Bolton) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Aitken, Sir William Max | Cecil, Lord Hugh (Oxford Univ.) | Gretton, John |
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Cecil, Lord R. (Herts, Hitchin) | Guinness, Hon. Rupert (Essex, S. E.) |
| Anstruther-Gray, Major William | Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Guinness, Hon. W. E. (Bury S. Edmunds) |
| Archer-Shee, Major M. | Chambers, James | Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | Haddock, George Bahr |
| Baker, Sir Randolf L. (Dorset, N.) | Clive, Captain Percy Archer | Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) |
| Balcarres, Lord | Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Hall, Fred (Dulwich) |
| Baldwin, Stanley | Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Hall, Marshall (E. Toxteth) |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Courthope, George Loyd | Hambro, Angus Valdemar |
| Baring, Maj. Hon. Guy V. (Winchester) | Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.) | Hamersley, Alfred St. George |
| Barlow, Montague (Salford, South) | Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Hamilton, Lord C. J. (Kensington, S.) |
| Barnston, Harry | Cralk, Sir Henry | Hamilton, Marquess of (Londonderry) |
| Barrie, H. T. | Croft, H. P. | Hardy, Rt. Hon. Laurence |
| 8athurst, Hon. A. B. (Glouc, E.) | Dalziei, Davison (Brixton) | Harris, Henry Percy |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott | Harrison-Broadley, H. B. |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Doughty, Sir George | Henderson, Major H. (Berkshire) |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Duke, Henry Edward | Herbert, Hon. A. (Somerset, S.) |
| Bentinck, Lord H. Cavendish- | Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Hewins, William Albert Samuel |
| Beresford, Lord Charles | Faber, George Denlson (Clapham) | Hickman, Col. Thomas E. |
| Bird, Alfred | Falle, Bertram Godfray | Hill, Sir Clement L. |
| Blair, Reginald | Fell, Arthur | Hills, John Waller |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Fetherstonhaugh, Godfrey | Hoare, S. J. G. |
| Boyle, William (Norfolk, Mid) | Finlay, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert | Hope, Harry (Bute) |
| Boyton, James | Fisher, Rt. Hon. W. Hayes | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Fitzroy, Hon. Edward A. | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Fiannery, Sir J. Fortescue | Home, E. (Surrey, Guildford) |
| Butcher, John George | Fletcher, John Samuel (Hampstead) | Horner, Andrew Long |
| Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. (Dublin Univ.) | Gardner, Ernest | Houston, Robert Paterson |
| Carlite, Sir Edward Hildred | Gastrell, Major W. Houghton | Hunt, Rowland |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward H. | Gilmour, Captain John | lugleby, Holcombe |
| Cassel, Felix | Goldman, C. S. | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Goldsmith, Frank | Jessel, Captain H. M. |
| Cator, John | Gordon, John (Londonderry, South) | Joynson-Hicks, William |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr |
| Cave, George | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Kerry, Earl of |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Greene, Walter Raymond | Kimber, Sir Henry |
| Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Parkes, Ebenezer | Strauss, Arthur (Paddington, North) |
| Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) | Swift, Rigby |
| Lane-Fox, G. R. | Peel, Captain R. F. | Sykes, Alan John (Ches., Knutsford) |
| Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle) | Perkins, Walter F. | Talbot, Lord E. |
| Lawson, Hon. H. (T. H'mts., Mile End) | Pole-Carew, Sir R. | Terrell, G. (Wilts, N. W.) |
| Lee, Arthur Hamilton | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) |
| Locker-Lampson, G. (Salisbury) | Qullter, Sir William Eley C. | Thompson, Robert (Belfast, North) |
| Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) | Randles, Sir John S. | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Down, North) |
| Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel | Thynne, Lord A. |
| Lonsdale, Sir John Brownlee | Rawson, Col. Richard H. | Touche, George Alexander |
| Lowe, Sir F. W. (Birm., Edgbaston) | Rees, Sir J. D. | Tryon, Captain George Clement |
| Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. A. (S. Geo., Han. S.) | Remnant, James Farquharson | Valentia, Viscount |
| Lyttelton, Hon. I. C. (Droitwich) | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
| MacCaw, Wm. J. MacGeagh | Rolleston, Sir John | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Mackinder, Halford J. | Royds, Edmund | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Macmaster, Donald | Rutherford, John (Lancs., Darwen) | White, Major G. D. (Lanes., Southport) |
| M'Neill, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) | Rutherford, Watson (L'pool, W. Derby) | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Magnus, Sir Philip | Samuel, Sir Harry (Norwood) | Wills, Sir Gilbert |
| Malcolm, Ian | Sanders, Robert Arthur | Wilson, A. Stanley (Yorks, E. R.) |
| Masnn, James F. (Windsor) | Sanderson, Lancelot | Winterton, Earl |
| Middlemore, John Throgmorton | Sassoon, Sir Philip | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Mlldmay, Francis Bingham | Scott, Leslie (Liverpool, Exchange) | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Mount, William Arthur | Smith, Harold (Warrington) | Wortrey, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Neville, Reginald J. N. | Spear, Sir John Ward | Wright, Henry Fitzherbert |
| Newton, Harry Kottingham | Stanier, Beville | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) | Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk) | Yate, Colonel C. E. |
| Nield, Herbert | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) | Younger, Sir George |
| Norton-Griffiths, J. (Wednesbury) | Starkey, John Ralph | |
| Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. | Steel-Maitland, A. D. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Viscount Lewisham and Mr. S. Hill-Wood. |
| Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) | Stewart, Gershom |
§ Government Amendment: In Sub-section (3), after the word "applicable" ["shall, so far as applicable, extend "], to insert the words—
§ "and subject to the provisions of this Act, and especially to any provision enabling the Irish Parliament to alter those
560§ laws as respects the Irish House of Commons."—[Mr. Birrell.]
§ Question put, "That the Amendment be made."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 319; Noes, 194.
563| Division No. 415.] | AYES. | [7.50 p.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Edwards, John Hugh (Glamorgan, Mid) |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Elverston, Sir Harold |
| Adamson, William | Cawley, Harold T. (Heywood) | Esmende, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) |
| Adkins, Sir W. Ryland D. | Chancellor, Henry George | Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) |
| Agnew, Sir George William | Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Esslemont, George Birnie |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Clancy, John Joseph | Falconer, James |
| Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbartonshire) | Clough, William | Farrell, James Patrick |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Clynes, John R. | Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles |
| Arnold, Sydney | Collins, G. P. (Greenock) | Ffrench, Peter |
| Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert Henry | Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Field, William |
| Baker, H. T. (Accrington) | Compton-Rickett, Rt. Hon. Sir J. | Fitzgibbon, John |
| Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) | Condon, Thomas Joseph | Flavin, Michael Joseph |
| Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | France, Gerald Ashburner |
| Baring, Sir Godfrey (Barnstaple) | Cotton, William Francis | George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd |
| Barlow, Sir John Emmott (Somerset) | Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Gilhooly, James |
| Barnes, G. N. | Crean, Eugene | Gill, A. H. |
| Barton, William | Crooks, William | Ginnell, Laurence |
| Beale, Sir William Phlpson | Crumley, Patrick | Gladstone, W. G. C. |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Cullinan, John | Glanville, H. J. |
| Beck, Arthur Cecil | Dalziel, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy) | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford |
| Bentham, G. J. | Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Goldstone, Frank |
| Bethell, Sir J. H. | Davies, Timothy (Lines., Louth) | Greenwood, Hamar (Sunderland) |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Greig, Col. J. W. |
| Black, Arthur W. | Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan) | Griffith, Ellis J. |
| Boland, John Plus | Dawes, J. A. | Guest, Hon. Major C. H. C. (Pembroke) |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | De Forest, Baron | Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) |
| Bowerman, C. W, | Delany, William | Gulney, Patrick |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Gulland, John William |
| Brace, William | Devlin, Joseph | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Dickinson, W. H. | Hackett, John |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Donelan, Captain A. | Hall, Frederick (Normanton) |
| Brunner, John F. L. | Doris, William | Hancock, J. G. |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Duffy, William J. | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis (Rossendale) |
| Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Duncan, J. Hastings (York, Otley) | Hardie, J. Keir |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds.) |
| Byles, Sir William Pollard | Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) |
| Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Meagher, Michael | Roche, Augustine (Louth) |
| Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Menzies, Sir Walter | Rose, Sir Charles Day |
| Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Millar, James Duncan | Rowlands, James |
| Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Molloy, Michael | Rowntree, Arnold |
| Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | Molteno, Percy Alport | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter |
| Hayden, John Patrick | Mond, Sir Alfred M. | Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. |
| Hayward, Evan | Mooney, John J. | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Hazleton, Richard | Morrell, Philip | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Healy, Timothy Michael (Cork, East) | Muldoon, John | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Helme, Sir Norval Watson | Munro, R. | Sheehy, David |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C. | Sherwell, Arthur James |
| Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.) | Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. | Shortt, Edward |
| Henry, Sir Charles | Nannetti, Joseph P | Simon, Sir John Allsebrook |
| Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | Needham, Christopher T. | Smith, Albert (Lanes., Clitheroe) |
| Higham, John Sharp | Nicholson, Sir Charies N. (Doncaster) | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim) |
| Hinds, John | Nolan, Joseph | Snowden, Philip |
| Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | Norman, Sir Henry | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Hodge, John | Norton, Captain Cecil W. | Spicer, Rt. Hon. Sir Albert |
| Hogge, James Myles | Nugent, Sir Walter Richard | Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N. W.) |
| Holmes, Daniel Turner | Nuttall, Harry | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| Holt, Richard burning | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Sutherland, J. E. |
| Hope, John Deans (Haddington) | O'Connor, John (Klldare, N.) | Sutton, John E. |
| Home, Charles Silvester (Ipswich) | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | O'Doherty, Philip | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Hughes, S. L. | O'Donneli, Thomas | Taylor, Thomas (Bolton) |
| Illingworth, Percy H. | O'Dowd, John | Tennant, Harold John |
| Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus | Ogden, Fred | Thomas, James Henry |
| Jardine, Sir J. (Roxburgh) | O'Grady, James | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| John, Edward Thomas | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) | Thorne, William (West Ham) |
| Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) | O'Malley, William | Toulmin, Sir George |
| Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Jones, Leif Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) | O'Shee, James John | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Jones, W. S. Glyn- (Stepney) | O'Sullivan, Timothy | Wadsworth, J. |
| Jowett, F. W. | Outhwaite, R. L. | Walsh, J. (Cork, South) |
| Joyce, Michael | Palmer, Godfrey Mark | Walsh, Stephen (Lanes., Ince) |
| Keating, Matthew | Parker, James (Halifax) | Walters, Sir John Tudor |
| Kellaway, Frederick George | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) | Walton, Sir Joseph |
| Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Pearce, William (Limehouse) | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Kilbride, Denis | Pearson, Hon. Weetman H. M. | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) |
| King, J. (Somerset, North) | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) | Wardle, George J. |
| Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. (Devon, S. Molton) | Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) | Waring, Walter |
| Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay |
| Lardner, James Carrige Rushe | Pointer, Joseph | Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan) |
| Law, Hugh A (Donegal, W.) | Pollard, Sir George H. | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rlnd, Cockerm'th) | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. | Watt, Henry Anderson |
| Leach, Charles | Power, Patrick Joseph | Webb, H. |
| Levy, Sir Maurice | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) | White, J. Dundas (Glas., Tradeston) |
| Lough, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Priestley, Sir W. E. (Bradford) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Lundon, Thomas | Primrose, Hon. Neil James | Whittaker, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas P. |
| Lynch, A. A. | Pringle, William M. R. | Whyte, A. F. (Perth) |
| Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) | Radford, G. H. | Wiles, Thomas |
| McGhee, Richard | Raffan, Peter Wilson | Wilkie, Alexander |
| MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) | Raphael, Sir Herbert H. | Williams, John (Glamorgan) |
| Macpherson, James Ian | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthen) |
| MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Reddy, M. | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| M'Callum, Sir John M. | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) |
| M'Curdy, C. A. | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) | Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Worcs., N.) |
| M'Kean, John | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Rendall, Athelstan | Winfrey, Richard |
| M'Laren, Hon. H. D. (Leics.) | Richards, Thomas | Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glas.) |
| M'Laren, Hon. F. W. S. (Lines., Spalding) | Richardson, Albion (Peckham) | Young, Samuel (Cavan, E.) |
| M'Micking, Major Gilbert | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) | Young, W. (Perthshire, E.) |
| Manfleld, Harry | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Markham, Sir Arthur Basil | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | |
| Marks, Sir George Croydon | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs) | |
| Marshall, Arthur Harold | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. |
| Mason, David M. (Coventry) | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Wedgwood Benn and. Mr. W. Jones. |
| Masterman, Rt. Hon. C. F. G. | Robinson, Sidney | |
| NOES. | ||
| Aitken, Sir William Max | Barlow, Montague (Salford, South) | Bird, Alfred |
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Barnston, Harry | Blair, Reginald |
| Anstruther-Gray, Major William | Barrie, H. T. | Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue |
| Archer-Shee, Major M. | Bathurst, Hon. A. B. (Glouc, E.) | Boyle, William (Norfolk, Mid) |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Boyton, James |
| Balcarres, Lord | Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Bridgeman, W. Clive |
| Baldwin, Stanley | Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Burn, Colonel C. R. |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Bentinck, Lord H. Cavendish- | Butcher, John George |
| Baring, Maj. Hon. Guy V. (Winchester) | Beresford, Lord Charles | Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. (Dublin Univ.) |
| Carlile, Sir Edward Hildred | Hewins, William Albert Samuel | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. |
| Cassel, Felix | Hickman, Col. Thomas E. | Quilter, Sir William Eley C. |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Hill, Sir Clement L. | Randles, Sir John S. |
| Cator, John | Hills, John Waller | Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Hill-Wood, Samuel | Rawson, Col. Richard H. |
| Cave, George | Hoare, S. J. G. | Rees, Sir J. D. |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Hope, Harry (Bute) | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Oxford Univ.) | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Herts, Hitchin) | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Rolleston, Sir John |
| Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Home, E. (Surrey, Guildford) | Royds, Edmund |
| Chambers, James | Horner, Andrew Long | Rutherford, John (Lanes., Darwen) |
| Clay, Captain H. H, Spender | Houston, Robert Paterson | Rutherford, Watson (L'pool, W. Derby) |
| Clive, Captain Percy Archer | Hunt, Rowland | Samuel, Sir Harry (Norwood) |
| Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Ingleby, Holcombe | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Courthope, George Loyd | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) | Sassoon, Sir Philip |
| Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, s.) | Jesse), Captain H. M. | Scott, Leslie (Liverpool, Exchange) |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Joynson-Hicks, William | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Smith, Harold (Warrington) |
| Croft, H. P. | Kerry, Earl of | Stanier, Beviile |
| Dalziel, Davison (Brixton) | Kimber, Sir Henry | Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk) |
| Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Duke, Henry Edward | Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford | Starkey, John Ralph |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Steel-Maitland, A. D. |
| Faber, George Denison (Clapham) | Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle) | Stewart, Gershom |
| Falle, Bertram Godfray | Lawson, Hon. H. (T. Hints., Mile End) | Strauss, Arthur (Paddington, North) |
| Fell, Arthur | Lee, Arthur Hamilton | Sykes, Alan John (Ches., Knutsford) |
| Fetherstonhaugh, Godfrey | Lewisham, Viscount | Talbot, Lord E. |
| Finlay, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert | Locker-Lampson, G. (Salisbury) | Terrell, G. (Wilts, N. W.) |
| Fisher, Rt. Hon. W. Hayes | Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) |
| Fitzroy, Hon. Edward A. | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Thompson, Robert (Belfast, North) |
| Flannery, Sir J. Fortescue | Lonsdale, Sir John Brownlee | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Down, North) |
| Fletcher, John Samuel (Hampstead) | Lowe, Sir F. W. (Birm., Edgbaston) | Thynne, Lord A. |
| Gardner, Ernest | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. A. (S. Geo., Han. S.) | Touche, George Alexander |
| Gastrell, Major W. Houghton | Lytteiton, Hon. J. C. (Droitwich) | Tryon, Captain George Clement |
| Gilmour, Captain John | MacCaw, Wm. J. MacGeagh | Tullibardine, Marquess of |
| Goldman, C. S. | Mackinder, Halford J. | Valentia, Viscount |
| Goldsmith, Frank | Macmaster, Donald | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
| Gordon, John (Londonderry, South) | M'Nelil, Ronald (Kent, St Augustine's) | Ward, A. S. (Watford) |
| Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Magnus, Sir Philip | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Malcolm, Ian | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Greene, Walter Raymond | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Gretton, John | Middlemore, John Throgmorton | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Guinness, Hon. Rupert (Essex, S. E.) | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Wills, Sir Gilbert |
| Guinness, Hon. W. E. (Bury S. Edmunds) | Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | Wilson, A. Stanley (Yorks, E. R.) |
| Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) | Mount, William Arthur | Winterton, Earl |
| Haddock, George Bahr | Neville, Reginald J. N. | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) | Newton, Harry Kottingham | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Hall, Fred (Dulwich) | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Hall, Marshall (E. Toxteth) | Nield, Herbert | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Hamersley, Alfred St. George | Norton-Griffiths, J. (Wednesbury) | Wright, Henry Fitzherbert |
| Hamilton, Lord C. J. (Kensington, S.) | Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Hamilton, Marquess of (Londonderry) | Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) | Yate, Colonel C. E. |
| Hardy, Rt. Hon. Laurence | Parkes, Ebenezer | |
| Harris, Henry Percy | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) | |
| Harrison-Broadley, H. B. | Peel, Captain R. F. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Sir |
| Henderson, Major H. (Berkshire) | Perkins, Walter F. | R. Baker and Mr. Hambro. |
| Herbert, Hon A. (Somerset, S.) | Pole-Carew, Sir R. |
§ Government Amendment: In Subsection (3), after the word "the" ["extend to the Irish House of Commons and the members thereof"], insert the words "Irish Senate and the."—[Mr. Birrell]
564§ Question put, "That the Amendment be made."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 308; Noes, 185.
567| Division No. 416.] | AYES. | [8.0 p.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Barnes, G. N. | Brady, Patrick Joseph |
| Aciand, Francis Dyke | Barton, William | Brocklehurst, W. B. |
| Adamson, William | Beale, Sir William Phipson | Bryce, J. Annan |
| Adkins, Sir W. Ryland D. | Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Burke, E. Haviland- |
| Agnew, Sir George William | Beck, Arthur Cecil | Burns, Rt. Hon. John |
| Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbartonshire) | Bentham, G. J | Byles, Sir William Pollard |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Bethell, Sir J. H. | Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) |
| Arnold, Sydney | Birreil, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Cawley, Harold T. (Heywood) |
| Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert Henry | Black, Arthur W. | Chancellor, Henry George |
| Baker, H. T. (Accrington) | Boland, John Pius | Chapple, Dr. William Allen |
| Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) | Booth, Frederick Handel | Clancy, John Joseph |
| Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) | Bowerman, C. W. | Clough, William |
| Baring, Sir Godfrey (Barnstaple) | Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Clynes, John R. |
| Barlow, Sir John Emmott (Somerset) | Brace, William | Collins, G. P. (Greenock) |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Holmes, Daniel Turner | Outhwaite, R. L. |
| Compton-Rickett, Fit. Hon. Sir J. | Holt, Richard Durning | Palmer, Godfrey Mark |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Hope, John Deans (Haddington) | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Home, Charles Silvester (Ipswich) | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) |
| Cotton, William Francis | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Pearce, William (Limehouse) |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Hughes, S. L. | Pearson, Hon. Weetman H. M. |
| Crean, Eugene | Illingworth, Percy H. | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Roiherham |
| Crooks, William | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus | Phillips, Col. Ivor (Southampton) |
| Crumley, Patrick | Jardine, Sir J. (Roxburgh) | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) |
| Cullinan, John | John, Edward Thomas | Pointer, Joseph |
| Dalziel, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy) | Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Davies, Timothy (Lines., Louth) | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Davies, Sir w. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Jones, Lelf Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) |
| Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan) | Jones, W. S. Glyn- (Stepney) | Priestley, Sir W. E. (Bradford) |
| Dawes, J. A. | Jowett, F. W. | Primrose, Hon. Neil James |
| De Forest, Baron | Joyce, Michael | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Delany, William | Keating, Matthew | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Kellaway, Frederick George | Raphael, Sir Herbert H. |
| Devlin, Joseph | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Dickinson, W. H. | Kilbride, Denis | Reddy, M. |
| Donelan, Captain A. | King, J. (Somerset, North) | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Doris, William | Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. (Devon, S. Molton) | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) |
| Duffy, William J. | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Lardner, James Carrige Rushe | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Duncan, J. Hastings (York, Otley) | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Richards, Thomas |
| Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Lawson, sir W. (Cumb'rlnd, Cockerm'th) | Richardson, Albion (Peckham) |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Leach, Charles | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Edwards, John Hugh (Glamorgan, Mid) | Levy, Sir Maurice | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Elverston, Sir Harold | Lewis, John Herbert | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Lough, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs) |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Lundon, Thomas | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) |
| Esslemont, George Birnie | Lynch, A. A. | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Falconer, James | Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) | Robinson, Sidney |
| Farrell, lames Patrick | McGhee, Richard | Roche, Augustine (Louth) |
| Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles | MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Ffrench, Peter | Macpherson, James Ian | Rose, Sir Charles Day |
| Field, William | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Rowlands, James |
| Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward | M'Callum, Sir John M. | Rowntree, Arnold |
| Fitzgibbon, John | M'Curdy, C. A. | Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | M'Kean, John | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| France, Gerald Ashburner | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd | M'Laren, Hon. H. D. (Leics.) | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Gilhooly, James | M'Laren, Hon. F. W. S. (Lines, Spalding) | Sheehy, David |
| Gill, A. H. | Manfield, Harry | Sherwell, Arthur James |
| Ginnell, Laurence | Markham, Sir Arthur Basil | Shortt, Edward |
| Gladstone, W. G. C. | Marks, Sir George Croydon | Simon, Sir John Alisebrook |
| Glanville, H. J. | Marshall, Arthur Harold | Smith, Albert (Lanes., Clitheroe) |
| Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Mason, David M. (Coventry) | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim) |
| Goldstone, Frank | Masterman, Rt. Hon, C. F. G. | Snowden, Philip |
| Greenwood, Hamar (Sunderland) | Meagher, Michael | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Greig, Col. J. W. | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N. W.) |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Menzies, Sir Walter | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) |
| Guest, Hon. Major C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Millar, James Duncan | Sutherland, J. E. |
| Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Molloy, Michael | Sutton, John E. |
| Guiney, Patrick | Molteno, Percy Alport | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
| Gulland, John William | Mond, Sir Alfred M. | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Mooney, John J. | Taylor, Thomas (Bolton) |
| Hackett, John | Morrell, Philip | Tennant, Harold John |
| Hall, Frederick (Normanton) | Muldoon, John | Thomas, James Henry |
| Hancock, J. G. | Munro, R. | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis (Rossendale) | Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C. | Thorne, William (West Ham) |
| Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. | Toulmin, Sir George |
| Hardie, J. Keir | Nannetti, Joseph P, | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds.) | Needham, Christopher T. | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) | Nicholson, Sir Charles N. (Doncaster) | Verney, Sir Harry |
| Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Nolan, Joseph | Wadsworth, J. |
| Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Norman, Sir Henry | Walsh, J. (Cork, South) |
| Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Norton, Captain Cecil W. | Walsh, Stephen (Lanes., Ince) |
| Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Nugent, Sir Walter Richard | Walters, Sir John Tudor |
| Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Nuttall, Harry | Walton, Sir Joseph |
| Hayden, John Patrick | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) |
| Hayward, Evan | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) |
| Hazleton, Richard | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Wardle, George J. |
| Healy, Timothy Michael (Cork, East) | O'Doherty, Philip | Waring, Walter |
| Helme, Sir Norval Watson | O'Donnell, Thomas | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Dowd, John | Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan) |
| Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.) | Ogden, Fred | Watt, Henry Anderson |
| Henry, Sir Charles | O'Grady, James | Webb, H. |
| Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Higham, John Sharp | O'Malley, William | White, J. Dundas (Glas., Tradeston) |
| Hinds, John | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H | O'Shaughnessy, P. I. | Whyte, A. F. (Perth) |
| Hodge, John | O'Shee, James John | Wiles, Thomas |
| Hogge, James Myles | O'Sullivan, Timothy | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Williams, John (Glamorgan) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthen) | Winfrey, Richard | |
| Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) | Wood, Rt. Hon, T. McKinnon (Glas.) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. |
| Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) | Young, Samuel (Cavan, E.) | Wedgwood Benn and Mr. W. Jones. |
| Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Worcs., N.) | Young, W. (Perthshire, E.) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Aitken, Sir William Max | Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) |
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Nield, Herbert |
| Archer-Shee, Major M. | Gretton, John | Norton-Griffiths, J. (Wednesbury) |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Guinness, Hon. Rupert (Essex, S. E.) | Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. |
| Baker, Sir Randolf L. (Dorset, N.) | Guinness, Hon. W. E. (Bury S. Edmunds) | Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) |
| Balcarres, Lord | Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Baldwin, Stanley | Haddock, George Bahr | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) | Peel, Captain R. F. |
| Baring, Maj. Hon. Guy V. (Winchester) | Hall, Fred (Dulwich) | Perkins, Walter F. |
| Barlow, Montague (Salford, South) | Hall, Marshall (E. Toxteth) | Pole-Carew, Sir R. |
| Barnston, Harry | Hambro, Angus Vaidemar | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. |
| Barrie, H. T. | Hamersley, Alfred St. George | Quilter, Sir William Eley C. |
| Bathurst, Hon. A. B. (Glouc, E.) | Hamilton, Lord C. J, (Kensington, S.) | Randles, Sir John S. |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hamilton, Marquess of (Londonderry) | Rawson, Col. Richard H. |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hardy, Rt. Hon. Laurence | Rees, Sir J. D. |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Harris, Henry Percy | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Bentinck, Lord H. Cavendish- | Harrison-Broadley, H. B. | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Beresford, Lord Charles | Henderson, Major H. (Berkshire) | Rolleston, Sir John |
| Bird, Alfred | Herbert, Hon. A. (Somerset, S.) | Royds, Edmund |
| Blair, Reginald | Hewins, William Albert Samuel | Rutherford, John (Lancs., Darwen) |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Hickman, Col. Thomas E. | Rutherford, Watson (L'pool, W. Derby) |
| Boyle, William (Norfolk, Mid) | Hill, Sir Clement L. | Samuel, Sir Harry (Norwood) |
| Boyton, James | Hills, John Waller | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hill-Wood, Samuel | Scott, Leslie (Liverpool, Exchange) |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Hoare, S. J. G. | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Butcher, John George | Hope, Harry (Bute) | Smith, Harold (Warrington) |
| Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. (Dublin Univ.) | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Spear, Sir John Ward |
| Carlile, Sir Edward Mildred | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) | Stanier, Beville |
| Cassel, Felix | Horne, E. (Surrey, Guildford) | Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk) |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Horner, Andrew Long | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Cator, John | Houston, Robert Paterson | Starkey, John Ralph |
| Cave, George | Hunt, Rowland | Steel-Maitland, A. D. |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Ingleby, Holcombe | Stewart, Gershom |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Oxford Univ.) | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) | Strauss, Arthur (Paddington, North) |
| Cecil, Lord R (Herts, Hitchin) | Jessel, Captain H. M. | Sykes, Alan John (Ches., Knutsford) |
| Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Talbot, Lord E. |
| Chambers, James | Kerry, Earl of | Terrell, G. (Wilts, N. W.) |
| Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | Kimber, Sir Henry | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) |
| Clive, Captain Percy Archer | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Thompson, Robert (Belfast, North) |
| Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Down, North) |
| Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Thynne, Lord A. |
| Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.) | Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle) | Touche, George Alexander |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Lawson, Hon. H. (T. H'mts., Mile End) | Tryon, Captain George Clement |
| Dalziel, Davison (Brixton) | Lee, Arthur Hamilton | Tullibardine, Marquess of |
| Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott | Lewisham, Viscount | Valentia, Viscount |
| Doughty, Sir George | Locker-Lampson, G. (Salisbury) | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
| Duke, Henry Edward | Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) | Ward, A. (Herts, Watford) |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Faber, George Denison (Clapham) | Lonsdale, Sir John Brownlee | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Falle, Bertram Godfray | Lowe, Sir F. W. (Birm., Edgbaston) | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Fell, Arthur | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. A. (S. Geo., Han. S.) | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Fetherstonhaugh, Godfrey | Lyttelton, Hon. J. C. (Droitwich) | Wills, Sir Gilbert |
| Finlay, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert | MacCaw, Wm. J. MacGeagh | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Fisher, Rt. Hon. W. Hayes | Macmaster, Donald | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Fitzroy, Hon. Edward A. | M'Neill, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Flannery, Sir J. Fortescue | Magnus, Sir Philip | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Fletcher, John Samuel (Hampstead) | Malcolm, Ian | Wright, Henry Fitzherbert |
| Gardner, Ernest | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Yate, Colonel C. E. |
| Gastrell, Major W. Houghton | Middlemore, John Throgmorton | Younger, Sir George |
| Gilmour, Captain John | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | |
| Goldman, C. S. | Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. |
| Goldsmith, Frank | Mount, William Arthur | Cautley and Mr. Courthope. |
| Gordon, John (Londonderry, South) | Newton, Harry Kottingham |
§ Government Amendment: In Sub-section (3), leave out the words "but those election laws may, except as provided by this Act, be altered by Irish Act."—[Mr. Birrell.]
568§ Question put, "That the Amendment be made."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 306; Noes, 172.
571| Division No. 417.] | AYES. | [8.15 p.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Fitzgibbon, John | M'Callum, Sir John M. |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Flavin, Michael Joseph | M'Curdy, C. A. |
| Adamson, William | France, Gerald Ashburner | M'Kean, John |
| Addison, Dr. C. | George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald |
| Agnew, Sir George William | Gilhooly, James | M'Laren, Hon. H. D. (Leics.) |
| Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbartonshire) | Gill, A. H. | M'Laren, Hon. F. W. S. (Lincs., Spalding) |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Ginnell, Laurence | Manfield, Harry |
| Arnold, Sydney | Gladstone, W. G. C. | Markham, Sir Arthur Basil |
| Baker, H. T. (Accrington) | Glanville, H. J. | Marks, Sir George Croydon |
| Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Marshall, Arthur Harold |
| Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) | Goldstone, Frank | Mason, David M. (Coventry) |
| Baring, Sir Godfrey (Barnstaple) | Greenwood, Hamar (Sunderland) | Masterman, Rt. Hon. C. F. G. |
| Barlow, Sir John Emmott (Somerset) | Greig, Col. J. W. | Meagher, Michael |
| Barnes, G. N. | Griffith, Ellis J. | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) |
| Barton, William | Guest, Hon. Major C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Menzies, Sir Waiter |
| Beale, Sir William Phipson | Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Millar, James Duncan |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Guiney, Patrick | Molloy, Michael |
| Beck, Arthur Cecil | Gulland, John William | Molteno, Percy Alport |
| Bentham, G. J. | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Mond, Sir Alfred M. |
| Bethell, Sir J. H. | Hackett, John | Mooney, John J. |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Hall, Frederick (Normanton) | Morrell, Philip |
| Black, Arthur W. | Hancock, J. G. | Muldoon, John |
| Boland, John Pius | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis (Rossendale) | Munro, R. |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C. |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Hardie, J. Keir | Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds.) | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Brace, William | Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) | Needham, Christopher T. |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Nicholson, sir Charles N. (Doncaster) |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Nolan, Joseph |
| Brunner, John F. L. | Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Norman, Sir Henry |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Norton, Captain Cecil W. |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Nugent, Sir Walter Richard |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Hayden, John Patrick | Nuttall, Harry |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney C. (Poplar) | Hayward, Evan | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Byles, Sir William Pollard | Hazleton, Richard | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Healy, Timothy Michael (Cork, East) | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Cawley, Harold T. (Heywood) | Helme, Sir Norval Watson | O'Doherty, Philip |
| Chancellor, Henry George | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Donnell, Thomas |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Henry, Sir Charles | O'Dowd, John |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | Ogden, Fred |
| Clough, William | Higham, John Sharp | O'Grady, James |
| Clynes, John R. | Hinds, John | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Collins, G. P. (Greenock) | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | O'Malley, William |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Hodge, John | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) |
| Compton-Rickett, Rt. Hon. Sir J. | Hogge, James Myles | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Holmes, Daniel Turner | O'Shee, James John |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Holt, Richard Durning | O'Sullivan, Timothy |
| Cotton, William Francis | Horne, Charles Silvester (Ipswich) | Outhwaite, R. L. |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Palmer, Godfrey Mark |
| Crean, Eugene | Hughes, S. L. | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Crooks, William | Illingworth, Percy H. | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) |
| Crumley, Patrick | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus | Pearce, William (Limehouse) |
| Cullinan, John | Jardine, Sir J. (Roxburgh) | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) |
| Dalziel, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy) | John, Edward Thomas | Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) |
| Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Pointer, Joseph |
| Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. R. |
| Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan) | Jones, Leif Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Dawes, J. A. | Jones, W. S. Glyn- (Stepney) | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| De Forest, Baron | Jowett, F W. | Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) |
| Delany, William | Joyce, Michael | Priestley, Sir W. E. (Bradford) |
| Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Keating, Matthew | Primrose, Hon. Neil James |
| Devlin, Joseph | Kellaway, Frederick George | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Dickinson, W. H. | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Kilbride, Denis | Raphael, Sir Herbert H. |
| Doris, William | King, J. (Somerset, North) | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Duffy, William J. | Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. (Devon, S. Molton) | Reddy, M. |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Duncan, J. Hastings (York, Otley) | Lardner, James Carrige Rushe | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) |
| Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rlnd, Cockerm'th) | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Edwards, John Hugh (Glamorgan, Mid) | Leach, Charles | Richards, Thomas |
| Elverston, Sir Harold | Levy, Sir Maurice | Richardson, Albion (Peckham) |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Lewis, John Herbert | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Lough, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Esslemont, George Birnie | Lundon, Thomas | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Falconer, James | Lynch, A. A. | Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs) |
| Farrell, James Patrick | Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) |
| Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles | McGhee, Richard | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Ffrench, Peter | MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) | Robinson, Sidney |
| Field, William | Macpherson, James Ian | Roche, Augustine (Louth) |
| Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Rose, Sir Charles Day | Tennant, Harold John | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Rowlands, James | Thomas, James Henry | Whittaker, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas P. |
| Rowntree, Arnold | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) | Whyte, A. F. (Perth) |
| Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. | Thorne, William (West Ham) | Wiles, Thomas |
| Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) | Toulmin, Sir George | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips | Williams, John (Glamorgan) |
| Scanlan, Thomas | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthen) |
| Sheehy, David | Verney, Sir Harry | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| Sherwell, Arthur James | Wadsworth, J. | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) |
| Shortt, Edward | Walsh, J. (Cork, South) | Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Worcs., N.) |
| Simon, Sir John Allsebrook | Walsh, Stephen (Lancs., Ince) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Smith, Albert (Lancs., Clitheroe) | Walters, Sir John Tudor | Winfrey, Richard |
| Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim) | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) | Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glas.) |
| Snowden, Philip | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) | Young, Samuel (Cavan, E.) |
| Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Wardle, George J. | Young, W. (Perthshire, E.) |
| Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N. W.) | Waring, Walter | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay | |
| Sutherland, J. E. | Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan) | |
| Sutton, John E. | Watt, Henry Anderson | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. |
| Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Webb, H. | Wedgwood Benn and Mr. William Jones. |
| Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. | |
| Taylor, Thomas (Bolton) | White, J. Dundas (Glas., Tradeston) |
| NOES. | ||
| Aitken, Sir William Max | Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) |
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Norton-Griffiths, J. (Wednesbury) |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Gretton, John | Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. |
| Baker, Sir Randolf L. (Dorset, N.) | Guinness, Hon. Rupert (Essex, S. E.) | Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) |
| Balcarres, Lord | Guinness, Hon. W. E. (Bury S. Edmunds) | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Baldwin, Stanley | Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Haddock, George Bahr | Peel, Captain R. F. |
| Baring, Maj. Hon. Guy V. (Winchester) | Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) | Perkins, Walter F. |
| Barnston, Harry | Hall, Fred (Dulwich) | Pole-Carew, Sir R. |
| Barrie, H. T. | Hall, Marshall (E. Toxteth) | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hambro, Angus Valdemar | Quilter, Sir William Eley C. |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hamersley, Alfred St. George | Rawson, Col. Richard H. |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Hamilton, Lord C. J. (Kensington, S.) | Rees, Sir J. D. |
| Bentinck, Lord H. Cavendish- | Hamilton, Marquess of (Londonderry) | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Bird, Alfred | Hardy, Rt. Hon. Laurence | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Blair, Reginald | Harrison-Broadley, H. B. | Rolleston, Sir John |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Henderson, Major H. (Berkshire) | Royds, Edmunds |
| Boyle, William (Norfolk, Mid) | Herbert, Hon. A. (Somerset, S.) | Rutherford, John (Lancs., Darwen) |
| Boyton, James | Hewins, William Albert Samuel | Rutherford, Watson (L'pool, W. Derby) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hickman, Col. Thomas E. | Samuel, Sir Harry (Norwood) |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Hill, Sir Clement L. | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Butcher, John George | Hills, John Waller | Scott, Leslie (Liverpool, Exchange) |
| Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. (Dublin Univ.) | Hill-Wood, Samuel | Smith, Harold (Warrington) |
| Carlile, Sir Edward Hildred | Hope, Harry (Bute) | Spear, Sir John Ward |
| Cassel, Felix | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) | Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk) |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Cator, John | Horne, E. (Surrey, Guildford) | Starkey, John Ralph |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Horner, Andrew Long | Stewart, Gershom |
| Cave, George | Houston, Robert Paterson | Strauss, Arthur (Paddington, North) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Ingleby, Holcombe | Sykes, Alan John (Ches., Knutsford) |
| Cecil, Lord R. (Herts, Hitchin) | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) | Talbot, Lord E. |
| Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Jessel, Captain H. M. | Terrell, G. (Wilts, N. W.) |
| Chambers, James | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) |
| Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | Kerry, Earl of | Thompson, Robert (Belfast, North) |
| Clive, Captain Percy Archer | Kimber, Sir Henry | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Down, North) |
| Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Thynne, Lord A. |
| Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford | Touche, George Alexander |
| Courthope, George Loyd | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Tryon, Captain George Clement |
| Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.) | Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle) | Tullibardine, Marquess of |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Lawson, Hon. H. (T. H'mts., Mile End) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Dalziel, Davison (Brixton) | Lee, Arthur Hamilton | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
| Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott | Lewisham, Viscount | Ward, A. (Herts, Watford) |
| Doughty, Sir George | Locker-Lampson, G. (Salisbury) | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Duke, Henry Edward | Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Faber, George Denison (Clapham) | Lonsdale, Sir John Brownlee | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Fell, Arthur | Lowe, Sir F. W. (Birm., Edgbaston) | Wills, Sir Gilbert |
| Fetherstonhaugh, Godfrey | Lyttelton, Hon. J. C. (Droitwich) | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Finlay, Rt. Hon. Sir Robert | MacCaw, Wm. J. MacGeagh | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Fisher, Rt. Hon. W. Hayes | Macmaster, Donald | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Flannery, Sir J. Fortescue | McNeill, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine) | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Fletcher, John Samuel (Hampstead) | Magnus, Sir Philip | Wright, Henry Fitzherbert |
| Gardner, Ernest | Malcolm, Ian | Yate, Colonel C. E. |
| Gastrell, Major W. Houghton | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Younger, Sir George |
| Gibbs, George Abraham | Middlemore, John Throgmorton | |
| Gilmour, Captain John | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | |
| Goldman, C. S. | Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Sir |
| Goldsmith, Frank | Mount, William Arthur | John Randles and Mr. Falle. |
| Gordon, John (Londonderry, South) | Newton, Harry Kottingham |
§ Government Amendment: In Sub-section (3), after the word "the" ["elections of members of the Irish House of Commons"], to insert the words "Irish Senate and the."—[Mr. Birrell.]
574§ Question put, "That the Amendment be made."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 293; Noes, 156.
575| Division No. 418.] | AYES. | [8.20 p.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Field, William | Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward | McGhee, Richard |
| Adamson, William | Fitzgibbon, John | MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) |
| Addison, Dr. C. | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Macpherson, James Ian |
| Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbartonshire) | Gilhooly, James | MacVeagh, Jeremiah |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Ginnell, Laurence | M'Callum, Sir John M. |
| Arnold, Sydney | Gladstone, W. G. C. | M'Curdy, C. A. |
| Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) | Glanville, H. J. | M'Kean, John |
| Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald |
| Baring, Sir Godfrey (Barnstaple) | Goldstone, Frank | M'Laren, Hon. H. D. (Leics.) |
| Barlow, Sir John Emmott (Somerset) | Greenwood, Hamar (Sunderland) | M'Laren, Hon. F.W.S. (Lincs., Spalding) |
| Barnes, G. N. | Greig, Col. J. W. | Markham, Sir Arthur Basil |
| Barton, William | Griffith, Ellis J. | Marks, Sir George Croydon |
| Beale, Sir William Phipson | Guest, Hon. Major C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Marshall, Arthur Harold |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) | Mason, David M. (Coventry) |
| Beck, Arthur Cecil | Guiney, Patrick | Masterman, Rt. Hon. C. F. G. |
| Bentham, G. J. | Gulland, John William | Meagher, Michael |
| Bethell, Sir J. H. | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Hackett, John | Menzies, Sir Waiter |
| Black, Arthur W. | Hall, Frederick (Normanton) | Millar, James Duncan |
| Boland, John Pius | Hancock, J. G. | Molloy, Michael |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis (Rossendale) | Molteno, Percy Alport |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Mond, Sir Alfred M. |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Hardie, J. Keir | Mooney, John J. |
| Brace, William | Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds.) | Morrell, Philip |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) | Muldoon, John |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Munro, R. |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C. |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Murray, Captain Hon. Arthur C. |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney C. (Poplar) | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Needham, Christopher T. |
| Byles, Sir William Pollard | Hayden, John Patrick | Nicholson, Sir Charles N. (Doncaster)> |
| Cawley, Harold T. (Heywood) | Hayward, Evan | Nolan, Joseph |
| Chancellor, Henry George | Hazleton, Richard | Norman, Sir Henry |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Healy, Timothy Michael (Cork, East) | Norton, Captain Cecil W. |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Helme, Sir Norval Watson | Nugent, Sir Walter Richard |
| Clough, William | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Nuttall, Harry |
| Clynes, John R. | Henry, Sir Charles | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Compton-Rickett, Rt. Hon. Sir J. | Higham, John Sharp | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Hinds, John | O'Doherty, Philip |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A, | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | O'Donnell, Thomas |
| Cotton, William Francis | Hodge, John | O'Dowd, John |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Hogge, James Myles | Ogden, Fred |
| Crean, Eugene | Holmes, Daniel Turner | O'Grady, James |
| Crooks, William | Holt, Richard Durning | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Crumley, Patrick | Home, Charles Silvester (Ipswich) | O'Malley, William |
| Cullinan, John | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) |
| Dalziel, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. (Kirkcaldy) | Hughes, S. L. | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Illingworth, Percy H. | O'Shee, James John |
| Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus | O'Sullivan, Timothy |
| Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Jardine, Sir J. (Roxburgh) | Outhwaite, R. L. |
| Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan) | John, Edward Thomas | Palmer, Godfrey Mark |
| De Forest, Baron | Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Delany, William | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) |
| Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) | Pearce, William (Limehouse) |
| Devlin, Joseph | Jones, Leif Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) |
| Dickinson, W. H. | Jones, W. S. Glyn- (Stepney) | Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Jowett, F. W. | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) |
| Doris, William | Joyce, Michael | Pointer, Joseph |
| Duffy, William J. | Keating, Matthew | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. |
| Duncan, C. Barrow-in-Furness) | Kellaway, Frederick George | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Duncan, J. Hastings (Yorks, Otley) | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Kilbride, Denis | Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | King, J. (Somerset, North) | Priestley, Sir W. E. (Bradford) |
| Edwards, John Hugh (Glamorgan, Mid) | Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. (Devon, S. Molton) | Primrose, Hon. Neil James |
| Elverston, Sir Harold | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Lardner, James Carrige Rushe | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Raphael, Sir Herbert H. |
| Esslemont, George Birnie | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rld, Cockerm'th) | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Falconer, James | Leach, Charles | Reddy, M. |
| Farrell, James Patrick | Levy, Sir Maurice | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles | Lewis, John Herbert | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) |
| Ferens, Rt. Hon. Thomas Robinson | Lundon, Thomas | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) |
| Ffrench, Peter | Lynch, A. A. | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Richards, Thomas | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan) |
| Richardson, Albion (Peckham) | Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N. W.) | Watt, Henry Anderson |
| Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) | Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) | Webb, H. |
| Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | Sutherland, J. E. | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Sutton, John E. | White, J. Dundas (Glas., Tradeston) |
| Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs) | Taylor, John W. (Durham) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Whyte, A. F. (Perth) |
| Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Taylor, Thomas (Bolton) | Wiles, Thomas |
| Robinson, Sidney | Tennant, Harold John | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Roche, Augustine (Louth) | Thomas, James Henry | William, John (Glamorgan) |
| Roe, Sir Thomas | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthen) |
| Rowlands, James | Thorne, William (West Ham) | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| Rowntree, Arnold | Toulmin, Sir George | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) |
| Russell, Rt. Hon, Thomas W. | Trevelyan Charles Philips | Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Worcs., N.) |
| Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) | Verney, Sir Harry | Winfrey, Richard |
| Scanlan, Thomas | Wadsworth, J. | Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glas.) |
| Sheehy, David | Walsh, J. (Cork, South) | Young, Samuel (Cavan, E.) |
| Sherwell, Arthur James | Walsh, Stephen (Lancs., Ince) | Young, W. (Perthshire, E.) |
| Shortt, Edward | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Simon, Sir John Allsebrook | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) | |
| Smith, Albert (Lanes, Clitheroe) | Wardle, George J. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. |
| Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim) | Waring, Walter | Wedgwood Benn and Mr. William Jones. |
| Snowden, Philip | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay | |
| NOES. | ||
| Aitken, Sir William Max | Gilmour, Captain John | Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) |
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. | Goldman, C. S. | Mount, William Arthur |
| Archer-Shee, Major M. | Goldsmith, Frank | Newton, Harry Kottingham |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Gordon, John (Londonderry, South) | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) |
| Baker, Sir Randolf L. (Dorset, N.) | Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. |
| Balcarres, Lord | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) |
| Baldwin, Stanley | Guinness, Hon. Rupert (Essex, S. E.) | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Guinness, Hon. W. E. (Bury S. Edmunds) | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Baring, Maj. Hon. Guy V. (Winchester) | Hall, Fred (Dulwich) | Peel, Captain R. F. |
| Barlow, Montague (Salford, South) | Hambro, Angus Valdemar | Perkins, Walter F. |
| Barnston, Harry | Hamersley, Alfred St. George | Pole-Carew, Sir R. |
| Barrie, H. T. | Hamilton, Marquess of (Londonderry) | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hardy, Rt. Hon. Laurence | Randles, Sir John S. |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Harrison-Broadley, H. B. | Rawson, Col. Richard H. |
| Bentinck, Lord H. Cavendish- | Henderson, Major H. (Berkshire) | Rees, Sir J. D. |
| Bird, Alfred | Herbert, Hon. A. (Somerset, S.) | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Blair, Reginald | Hewins, William Albert Samuel | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Hickman, Col. Thomas E. | Rolleston, Sir John |
| Boyle, William (Norfolk, Mid) | Hill, Sir Clement L. | Rutherford, John (Lancs., Darwen) |
| Boyton, James | Hills, John Waller | Rutherford, Watson, (L'pool, W. Derby) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hill-Wood, Samuel | Samuel, Sir Harry (Norwood) |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Hope, Harry (Bute) | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. (Dublin Univ.) | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) | Smith, Harold (Warrington) |
| Carlile, Sir Edward Hildred | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Spear, Sir John Ward |
| Cassel, Felix | Horner, Andrew Long | Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk) |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Houston, Robert Paterson | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Cator, John | Ingleby, Holcombe | Starkey, John Ralph |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) | Strauss, Arthur (paddington, North) |
| Cave, George | Jessel, Captain H. M. | Sykes, Alan John (Ches., Knutsford) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Talbot, Lord E. |
| Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Kerry, Earl of | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) |
| Chambers, James | Kimber, Sir Henry | Thompson, Robert (Belfast, North) |
| Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Down, North) |
| Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford | Thynne, Lord A. |
| Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Touche, George Alexander |
| Courthope, George Loyd | Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle) | Tryon, Captain George Clement |
| Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.) | Lawson, Hon. H. (T. H'mts., Mile End) | Tullibardine, Marquess of |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Lee, Arthur Hamilton | Valentia, Viscount |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Lewisham, Viscount | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
| Dalziel, Davison (Brixton) | Locker-Lampson, G. (Salisbury) | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Doughty, Sir George | Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Duke, Henry Edward | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Lonsdale, Sir John Brownlee | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Faber, George Denison (Clapham) | Lowe, Sir F. W. (Birm., Edgbaston) | Wills, Sir Gilbert |
| Falle, Bertram Godfray | Lyttelton, Hon. J. C. (Droitwich) | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Fell, Arthur | MacCaw, Wm. J. MacGeagh | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Fetherstonhaugh, Godfrey | Macmaster, Donald | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Fisher, Rt. Hon. W. Hayes | McNeill, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Flannery, Sir J. Fortescue | Magnus, Sir Philip | Wright, Henry Fitzherbert |
| Fletcher, John Samuel (Hampstead) | Malcolm, Ian | Yate, Colonel C. E. |
| Gardner, Ernest | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | |
| Gastrell, Major W Houghton | Middlemore, John Throgmorton | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. |
| Gibbs, George Abraham | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Royds and Mr. A. Ward. |
§ Government Amendment made: To leave out Sub-Section(4).—[Mr. Birrell.]
576§ Question put, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."
577§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 291; Noes, 158.
579| Division No. 419.] | AYES. | [8.30 p.m. |
| Abraham, William (Dublin, Harbour) | Ginnell, Laurence | M'Laren, Hon. F. W. S. (Lincs., Spalding) |
| Acland, Francis Dyke | Gladstone, W. G. C. | Markham, Sir Arthur Basil |
| Adamson, William | Glanville, H. J. | Marks, Sir George Croydon |
| Addison, Dr. C. | Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford | Marshall, Arthur Harold |
| Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbartonshire) | Goldstone, Frank | Mason, David M, (Coventry) |
| Allen, Rt. Hon. Charles P. (Stroud) | Greenwood, Hamar (Sunderland) | Masterman, Rt. Hon. C. F. G. |
| Arnold, Sydney | Greig, Col. J. W. | Meagher, Michael |
| Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) | Griffith, Ellis J. | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) |
| Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) | Guest, Hon. Major C. H. C. (Pembroke) | Menzies, Sir Waiter |
| Baring, Sir Godfrey (Barnstaple) | Guest, Hon. Frederick, E. (Dorset, E.) | Millar, James Duncan |
| Barlow, Sir John Emmott (Somerset) | Guiney, Patrick | Molloy, Michael |
| Barnes, G. N. | Gulland, John William | Molteno, Percy Alport |
| Barton, William | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Mond, Sir Alfred M. |
| Beale, Sir William Phipson | Hackett, John | Mooney, John J. |
| Beauchamp, Sir Edward | Hall, Frederick (Normanton) | Morrell, Philip |
| Beck, Arthur Cecil | Hancock, J. G. | Muldoon, John |
| Benham, G. J. | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis (Rossendale) | Munro, R. |
| Bethell, Sir J. H. | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C. |
| Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine | Hardie, J. Keir | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Black, Arthur W. | Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds.) | Needham, Christopher T. |
| Boland, John Pius | Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) | Nicholson, Sir Charles N. (Doncaster) |
| Booth, Frederick Handel | Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) | Nolan, Joseph |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Norman, Sir Henry |
| Boyle, Daniel (Mayo, North) | Harvey, W. E. (Dernyshire, N. E.) | Norton, Captain Cecil W. |
| Brace, William | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Nugent, Sir Walter Richard |
| Brady, Patrick Joseph | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Nuttall, Harry |
| Brocklehurst, W. B. | Hayden, John Patrick | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Brunner, John F. L. | Hayward, Evan | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Hazleton, Richard | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Healy, Timothy Michael (Cork, East) | O'Doherty, Philip |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Helme, Sir Norval Watson | O'Donnell, Thomas |
| Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney C. (Poplar) | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Dowd, John |
| Byles, Sir William Pollard | Henry, Sir Charles | Ogden, James |
| Cawley, Harold T. (Heywood) | Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., S.) | O'Grady, James |
| Chancellor, Henry George | Higham, John Sharp | O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Hinds, John | O'Malley, William |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Hobhouse, Rt. Hon. Charles E. H. | O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.) |
| Clough, William | Hodge, John | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Cynes, John R. | Hogge, James Myles | O'Shee, James John |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Holmes, Daniel Turner | O'Sullivan, Timothy |
| Compton-Rickett, Rt. Hon. Sir J. | Holt, Richard Durning | Outhwaite, R. L. |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Home, Charles Silvester (Ipswich) | Palmer, Godfrey Mark |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Parker, James (Halifax) |
| Cotton, William Francis | Hughes, S. L. | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | Illingworth, Percy H. | Pearce, William (Limehouse) |
| Crean, Eugene | Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus | Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) |
| Crooks, William | Jardine, Sir J. (Roxburgh) | Philipps, Col. Ivor (Southampton) |
| Crumley, Patrick | John, Edward Thomas | Phillips, John (Longford, S.) |
| Cullinan, John | Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil) | Pointer, Joseph |
| Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. |
| Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) | Jones, J. Towyn (Carmarthen, East) | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Jones, Leif Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) | Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) |
| Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan) | Jones, W. S. Glyn- (Stepney) | Priestley, Sir Arthur (Grantham) |
| De Forest, Baron | Jowett, F. W. | Priestley, Sir W. E. (Bradford) |
| Delany, William | Joyce, Michael | Pringle, William M. R. |
| Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Keating, Matthew | Raffan, Peter Wilson |
| Devlin, Joseph | Kellaway, Frederick George | Raphael, Sir Herbert H. |
| Dickinson, W. H. | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough) |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Kilbride, Denis | Reddy, M. |
| Doris, William | King, J. (Somerset, North) | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Duffy, William J. | Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. (Devon, S. Molton) | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade) | Redmond, William Archer (Tyrone, E.) |
| Edwards, Clement (Glamorgan, E.) | Lardner, James Carrige Rushe | Rendall, Athelstan |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Richards, Thomas |
| Edwards, John Hugh (Glamorgan, Mid) | Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'r'nd, Cockerm'th) | Richardson, Albion (Peckham) |
| Elverston Sir Harold | Leach, Charles | Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven) |
| Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.) | Levy, Sir Maurice | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.) | Lewis, John Herbert | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
| Esslemont, George Birnie | Lundon, Thomas | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford) |
| Falconer, James | Lynch, A. A. | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
| Farrell, James Patrick | Macdonald, J. Ramsay (Leicester) | Robinson, Sidney |
| Fenwick, Rt. Hon. Charles | McGhee, Richard | Roche, Augustine (Louth) |
| Ferens, Rt. Hon. Thomas Robinson | MacNeill, J. G. Swift (Donegal, South) | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Ffrench, Peter | Macpherson, James Ian | Rowlands, James |
| Field, William | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Rowntree, Arnold |
| Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward | M'Callum, Sir John M. | Russell, Rt. Hon. Thomas W. |
| Fitzgibbon, John | M'Curdy, C. A. | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | M'Kean, John | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Gilhooly, James | McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Gill, A. H. | M'Laren, Hon. H. D. (Leics.) | Sheehy, David |
| Sherwell, Arthur James | Toulmin, Sir George | Whittaker, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas P. |
| Shortt, Edward | Trevelyan, Charles Philips | Whyte, A. F. (Perth) |
| Simon, Sir John Allsebrook | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander | Wiles, Thomas |
| Smith, Albert (Lanes, Clitheroe) | Verney, Sir Harry | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim) | Wadsworth, J. | Williams, John (Glamorgan) |
| Snowden, Philip | Walsh, J. (Cork, South) | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthen) |
| Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Walsh, Stephen (Lancs., Ince) | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| Stanley, Albert (Staffs, N. W.) | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent) | Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.) |
| Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West) | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) | Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Worcs., N.) |
| Sutherland, J. E. | Wardle, George J. | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Sutton, John E. | Waring, Walter | Winfrey, Richard |
| Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay | Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glas.) |
| Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan) | Young, Samuel (Cavan, E.) |
| Taylor, Thomas (Bolton) | Watt, Henry Anderson | Young, W. (Perthshire, E. |
| Tennant, Harold John | Webb, H. | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Thomas, James Henry | Wedgwood, Josiah C. | |
| Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) | White, J. Dundas (Glas., Tradeston) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. |
| Thorne, William (West Ham) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) | Wedgwood Benn and Mr. Wm. Jones. |
| NOES. | ||
| Aitken, Sir William Max | Goldman, C. S. | Newton, Harry Kottingham |
| Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir Wiliam R. | Gordon, John (Londonderry, South) | Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield) |
| Archer-Shee, Major M. | Gordon, Hon. John Edward (Brighton) | Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. |
| Ashley, Wilfrid W. | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend) |
| Baker, sir Randolf L. (Dorset, N.) | Gretton, John | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Balcarres, Lord | Guinness, Hon. Rupert (Essex, S. E.) | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Baldwin, Stanley | Guinness, Hon. W. E. (Bury S. Edmunds) | Peel, Captain R. F. |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Haddock, George Bahr | Perkins, Walter F. |
| Barlow, Montague (Salford, South) | Hall, Fred (Dulwich) | Pole-Carew, Sir R. |
| Barnston, Harry | Hambro, Angus Valdemar | Pryce-Jones, Col. E. |
| Barrie, H. T. | Hamersley, Alfred St. George | Randles, Sir John S. |
| Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hamilton, Lord C. J. (Kensington, S.) | Rawson, Colonel Richard H. |
| Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hamilton, Marquess of (Londonderry) | Rees, Sir J. D. |
| Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth) | Hardy, Rt. Hon. Laurence | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Bentinck, Lord H. Cavendish- | Harrison-Broadley, H. B. | Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall) |
| Bird, Alfred | Henderson, Major H. (Berkshire) | Rolleston, Sir John |
| Blair, Reginald | Herbert, Hon. A. (Somerset, S.) | Royds, Edmund |
| Boles, Lieut.-Col. Dennis Fortescue | Hewins, William Albert Samuel | Rutherford, John (Lancs., Darwen) |
| Boyle, William (Norfolk, Mid) | Hickman, Col. Thomas E. | Rutherford, Watson (L'pool, W. Derby) |
| Boyton, James | Hill, Sir Clement L. | Samuel, Sir Harry (Norwood) |
| Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hill-Wood, Samuel | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Burn, Colonel C. R. | Hope, Harry (Bute) | Smith, Harold (Warrington) |
| Butcher, John George | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Spear, Sir John Ward |
| Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. (Dublin Univ.) | Hope, Major J. A. (Midlothian) | Stanley, Hon. Arthur (Ormskirk) |
| Cassel, Felix | Horner, Andrew Long | Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston) |
| Castlereagh, Viscount | Houston, Robert Paterson | Starkey, John Ralph |
| Cautley, Henry Strother | Ingleby, Holcombe | Stewart, Gershom |
| Cave, George | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, E.) | Strauss, Arthur (Paddington, North) |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Jessel, Captain H. M. | Sykes, Alan John (Ches., Knutsford) |
| Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. | Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr | Talbot, Lord E. |
| Chambers, James | Kerry, Earl of | Terrell, Henry (Gloucester) |
| Clay, Captain H. H. Spender | Kimber, Sir Henry | Thompson, Robert (Belfast, North) |
| Clive, Captain Percy Archer | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Down, North) |
| Coates, Major Sir Edward Feetham | Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford | Touche, George Alexander |
| Cooper, Richard Ashmole | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Tryon, Captain George Clement |
| Courthope, George Loyd | Law, Rt. Hon. A. Bonar (Bootle) | Tullibardine, Marquess of |
| Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim S.) | Lawson, Hon H. (T. H'mts., Mile End) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) | Lewisham, Viscount | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
| Dalziel, Davison (Brixton) | Locker-Lampson, G. (Salisbury) | Ward, A. S. (Herts, Watford) |
| Dickson, Rt. Hon. C. Scott | Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) |
| Doughty, Sir George | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Duke, Henry Edward | Lonsdale, Sir John Brownlee | White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport) |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Lowe, Sir F. W. (Birm., Edgbaston) | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud |
| Faber, George Denison (Clapham) | Lyttelton, Hon. J. C. (Droitwich) | Wills, Sir Gilbert |
| Falle, Bertram Godfray | MacCaw, William J. MacGeagh | Wood, Hon. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Fell, Arthur | Macmaster, Donald | Wood, John (Stalybridge) |
| Fetherstonhaugh, Godfrey | M'Neill, Ronald (Kent, St. Augustine's) | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Fisher, Rt. Hon. W. Hayes | Magnus, Sir Philip | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Flannery, Sir J. Fortescue | Malcolm, Ian | Wright, Henry Fitzherbert |
| Fletcher, John Samuel (Hampstead) | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Yate, Colonel C. E. |
| Gardner, Ernest | Middlemore, John Throgmorton | |
| Gastrell, Major W. Houghton | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | TELLERS FOR THE Noes.—Sir |
| Gibbs, George Abraham | Morrison-Bell, Capt. E. F. (Ashburton) | H. Carlile and Mr. Goldsmith. |
| Gilmour, Captain John | Mount, William Arthur |