HC Deb 21 November 1911 vol 31 cc1141-6
Employed Rate.
In the case of men 7d. a week.
In the case women 6d. a week.

In the case of employed contributors of either sex over the age of twenty-one whose wages or other remuneration do not exceed 2s. 6d. a day and who are not provided with board and lodging by their employer, the following shall be the rates of contribution:—

Where the wages or other remuneration do not exceed 1s. 6d. a day—

A week.
To be paid by the Employer For men, 6d.
For women, 4d.
To be paid by the Contributor 1d.

Where the wages or other remuneration do not exceed 2s. a day—

A week.
To be paid by the Employer For men, 5d.
For women, 4d.
To be paid by the Contributor 2d.

Where the wages or other remuneration do not exceed 2s. 6d. a day—

A week.
To be paid by the Employer For men, 4d.
For women, 3d.
To be paid by the Contributor 3d.

Amendments made: "In paragraph (1), after "a" ["2s. 6d. a day"], insert the word "working."

Leave out the words "who are not provided with" ["not provided with board and lodging "], and insert instead therof the words "such remuneration does not include the provision of."

In paragraph (2), after the word "the" ["Where the wages"], insert the words "rate of."

Leave out the word "do" ["do not exceed"], and insert "does."

After the word "a" ["a day"] insert the word "working."

Leave out "4d." ["women 4d."] and insert instead thereof "5d."

Leave out the word "contributor" ["contributor …. 1d."], and insert instead thereof the words "out of moneys provided by Parliament."

After the word "the" ["where the wages"] insert the words "rate of."

Leave out the word "do" ["do not exceed "] and insert instead thereof the word "does."

After the word "a" ["2s. a day"] insert the word "working."

Leave out "2d." ["contributor … 2d."] and insert instead thereof "1d."

After the words "contributor … 2d." insert the words "To be paid out of moneys provided by Parliament … 1d."

After the word "the" ["where the wages or other remuneration do not exceed 2s. 6d."] insert the words "rate of."

Leave out the word "do" ["do not exceed"] and insert the word "does."

After the word "a" ["2s. 6d. a day"] insert the word "working."

At the end of the Schedule insert,

Part II.—Employed Rate in Ireland
In the case of men 5½d. a week.
In the case of women 4½d. a week.

In the case of employed contributors of either sex over the age of twenty-one whose wages or other remuneration do not exceed 2s. 6d. a day and who are not provided with board and lodging by their employer, the following shall be the rates of contribution:—

Where the rate of wages or other remuneration does not exceed 1s. 6d. a day—

A week.
To be paid by the Employer For men, 4½d.
For women, 3½d.
To be paid out of moneys provided by Parliament 1d.

Where the rate of wages or other remuneration does not exceed 2s. a day—

A week.
To be paid by the Employer For men, 4d.
For women, 3d.
To be paid by the Contributor ½d.
To be paid out of moneys provided by Parliament 1d.

Where the rate of wages or other remuneration does not exceed 2s. 6d. a day—

A week.
To be paid by the Employer For men, 3½d.
For women, 2½d.
To be paid by the Contributor 2d.

—[Mr. Lloyd George.]

Question put, "That this Schedule, as amended, be the Second Schedule of the Bill."

The CHAIRMAN

Tellers for the "Ayes," Mr. Illingworth and Mr. Gulland; tellers for the "Noes," Mr. Charles Bathurst and Viscount Helmsley.

Viscount HELMSLEY

No, no.

The CHAIRMAN

Tellers for the "Noes," Mr. Charles Bathurst and Mr. Stanier.

Viscount HELMSLEY (seated and covered)

On a point of Order. May I ask on what authority my name was mentioned as a teller for this Division?

The CHAIRMAN

No names were handed in, so I named two hon. Members from whom the calls of "No" appeared to come.

Viscount HELMSLEY

Is it not unusual for the Chair to mention the name of an hon. Member to tell in a Division when he does not even know whether that Member is in favour of or against the question?

The CHAIRMAN

No tellers were handed in. I am sorry if I misinterpreted the Noble Lord's view. I corrected the nomination at once after the Noble Lord's, protest.

Viscount CASTLEREAGH (also seated, and covered)

Is it not the rule of the House that when tellers' names are not handed in there is no Division?

The CHAIRMAN

No. The Chairman frequently, when no names have been sent to the Table, nominates hon. Members from whom the call for a Division appears to have come.

The Committee divided: Ayes, 218; Noes, 55.

Division No. 400.] AYES. [10.45 p.m.
Abraham, William (Dublin Harbour) Barton, William Buckmaster, Stanley O.
Abraham, Rt. Hon. William (Rhondda) Beauchamp, Sir Edward Burke, E. Haviland-
Acland, Francis Dyke Beck, Arthur Cecil Burns, Rt. Hon. John
Addison, Dr. C. Benn, W. W. (T. H'mts, St. George) Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas
Adkins, Sir W. Ryland D. Bentham, George Jackson Buxton, Noel (Norfolk, N.)
Alden, Percy Black, Arthur W. Carr-Gomm, H. W.
Allen, Arthur A. (Dumbarton) Boland, John Plus Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich)
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) Booth, Frederick Handel Cawley, H. T. (Lancs., Heywood)
Anderson, Andrew Macbeth Bowerman, Charles W. Chancellor, Henry George
Armitage, Robert Brace, William Chapple, Dr. William Allen
Baker, Joseph Allen (Finsbury, E.) Brady, Patrick Joseph Clough, William
Balfour, Sir Robert (Lanark) Brunner, J. F. L. Collins, Godfrey P. (Greenock)
Barran, Sir John N. (Hawick B.) Bryce, J. Annan Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.
Cory, Sir Clifford John Johnson, W. Radford, G. H.
Cowan, W. H. Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea) Raffan, Peter Wilson
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) Jones, Edgar R. (Merthyr Tydvil) Raphael, Sir Herbert H.
Crawshay-Williams, Eliot Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth) Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Dalziel, Sir James H. (Kirkcaldy) Jones, Leif Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe) Rendall, Athelstan
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) Richards, Thomas
Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth) Jones, William S. Glyn- (Stepney) Richardson, Albion (Peckham)
Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) Joyce, Michael Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Dawes, J. A. Kellaway, Frederick George Roberts, Sir J. H. (Denbighs)
De Forest, Baron Kennedy, Vincent Paul Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford)
Denman, Hon. R. D. Kilbride, Denis Robertson, John M. (Tyneside)
Donelan, Captain A. King, J. Robinson, Sidney
Doris, William Lamb, Ernest Henry Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke)
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) Lambert, George (Devon, S. Molton) Roche, Augustine (Louth)
Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, West) Roche, John (Galway, E.)
Edwards, John Hugh (Glamorgan, Mid) Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rld, Cockerm'th) Roe, Sir Thomas
Elibank, Rt. Hon. Master of Levy, Sir Maurice Rose, Sir Charles Day
Elverston, Sir Harold Lewis, John Herbert Rowlands, James
Essex, Richard Walter Low, Sir Frederick (Norwich) Rowntree, Arnold
Esslemont, George Birnie Lyell, Charles Henry Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter
Falconer, James Lynch, A. A. Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland)
Ferens, Thomas Robinson Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace Edward Macnamara, Rt. Hon. Dr. T. J. Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Furness, Stephen M'Callum, John M. Schwann, Rt. Hon. Sir C. E.
Gelder, Sir William Alfred McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald Scott, A. MacCallum (Glas., Bridgeton)
George, Rt. Hon. O. Lloyd M'Laren, Hon. H. D. (Leics.) Seely, Col., Rt. Hon. J. E. B.
Gibson, Sir James Puckering M'Laren, Hon. F. W. S. (Lincs., Spalding) Sherwell, Arthur James
Gill, A. H. M'Micking, Major Gilbert Simon, Sir John Allsebrook
Gladstone, W. G. C. Marks, Sir George Croydon Spicer, Sir Albert
Glanville, H. J. Martin, Joseph Summers, James Woolley
Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford Masterman, C. F. G. Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Greenwood, Granville G. (Peterborough) Meehan, Patrick A. (Queen's Co.) Tennant, Harold John
Griffith, Ellis Jones Menzies, Sir Walter Thomas, James Henry (Derby)
Guest, Major Hon. C. H. C. (Pembroke) Middlebrook, William Toulmin, Sir George
Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.) Millar, James Duncan Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) Molteno, Percy Alport Verney, Sir Harry
Hackctt, John Mond, Sir Alfred Moritz Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)
Hancock, John George Morgan, George Hay Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton)
Harcourt, Rt Hon. Lewis (Rossendale) Morrell, Philip Wardle, George J.
Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) Morton, Alpheus Cleophas Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan)
Harmsworth, Cecil (Luton, Beds.) Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C. Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Harmsworth, R. L. (Caithness-shire) Murray, Capt. Hon. A. C. Webb, H.
Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) Nannetti, Joseph P. White, J. Dundas (Glasgow, Tradeston)
Haslam, James (Derbyshire, N. E.) Nicholson, Charles N. (Doncaster) White, Sir Luke (York, E. R.)
Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) Nolan, Joseph Whitehouse, John Howard
Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry Norman, Sir Henry Whittaker, Rt. Hon. Sir T. P.
Haworth, Sir Arthur A. Norton, Captain Cecil W. Whyte, A. F. (Perth)
Hayward, Evan O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Williams, John (Glamorgan)
Helme, Norval Watson O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Williams, P. (Middlesbrough)
Henderson, Arthur (Durham) O'Shee, James John Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, W.)
Henry, Sir Charles S. O'Sullivan, Timothy Wilton, John (Durham, Mid)
Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon., South) Palmer, Godfrey Mark Wilson, Rt. Hon. J. W. (Worc., N.)
Higham, John Sharp Parker, James (Halifax) Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Hinds, John Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) Wood, Rt. Hon. T. McKinnon (Glasgow)
Holt, Richard Durning Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham) Young, Samuel (Cavan, E.)
Hope, John Deans (Haddington) Phillips, John (Longford, S.) Young, W. (Perthshire, E.)
Howard, Hon. Geoffrey Pirie, Duncan V. Yoxall, Sir James Henry
Hughes, Spencer Leigh Pensonby, Arthur A. W. H.
Hunter, W. (Govan) Power, Patrick Joseph TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr.
Isaacs, Rt. Hon. Sir Rufus Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central) Illingworth and Mr. Gulland.
John, Edward Thomas Price, Sir Robert J. (Norfolk, E.)
NOES.
Adamson, William Goldstone, Frank Sanders, Robert A.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Gretton, John Sanderson, Lancelot
Anson, Rt. Hon. Sir William R. Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) Smith, Albert (Lancs., Clitheroe)
Ashley, Wilfrid W. Hamilton, Lord C. J. (Kensington) Sutton, John E.
Astor, Waldorf Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil) Talbet, Lord Edmund
Bagot, Lieut.-Col. J. Helmsley, Viscount Touche, George Alexander
Balcarres, Lord Hill-Wood Samuel Valentia, Viscount
Barnes, George N. Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) Walsh, Stephen (Lancs., Ince)
Boyton, James Hunt, Rowland Ward, Arnold S. (Herts, Watford)
Bridgeman, W. Clive Jowett, Frederick William Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid)
Burn, Colonel C. R. Lansbury, George Wheler, Granville
Campion, W. R. Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey) White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport)
Castlereagh, Viscount Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. A. (S. Geo. Han. S.) Winterton, Earl
Cator, John Paget, Almeric Hugh Wolmer, Viscount
Chaloner, Col. R. G. W. Pointer, Joseph Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Clynes, John R. Pollack, Ernest Murray Yate, Col. C. E.
Courthope, George Loyd Pryce-Jones, Col. E.
Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet) Ratcliff, R. F. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr.
Forster, Henry William Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel C. Bathurst and Mr. Stanier.
Gastrell, Major W. Houghton Salter, Arthur Clavell

Question put, and agreed to.