Commons Sitting of 3 May 1911

Preamble
The House met at a Quarter before Three of the clock, Mr. SPEAKER in the Chair.

PRIVATE BUSINESS.
Chesham and District Gas Bill [Lords],
As amended, considered; to be read the third time.

PUBLIC HEALTH (SCOTLAND) ACT (1897) AMENDMENT BILL.
Reported, with Amendments, from the Standing Committee on Scottish Bills.
Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.
Minutes of Proceedings of the Standing Committee to be printed.
Bill, as amended (in the Standing Committee), to be taken into consideration upon Wednesday next, and to be printed.

INTESTATE HUSBAND'S ESTATE (SCOTLAND) BILL.
Reported, with Amendments, from the Standing Committee on Scottish Bills.
Report to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.
Minutes of the Proceedings of the Standing Committee to be printed.
Bill, as amended (in the Standing Committee), to be taken into consideration Tomorrow and to be printed.

BOARD OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES.
Copy presented of Annual Report for 1910 of Proceedings under The Small Holdings and Allotments Act, 1908, and other Acts (Part II. Allotments and Miscellaneous) [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
EAST INDIA (RAILWAYS AND IRRIGATION WORKS).
Return presented relative thereto [Address 1st May; Sir Robert Price]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.
IRELAND DEVELOPMENT GRANT ACT, 1903.
Copy presented of Report of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland of all his Proceedings under the Act, for the year ended 31st March, 1911 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.

IRISH UNIVERSITIES ACT, 1908.
Copy presented of Statute I. of the National University of Ireland [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.
Copy presented of Statute I. of University College, Galway [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.
Copy presented of Statute of University College, Cork [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.
Copy presented of Statute I. of University College, Dublin [by Act]; to lie upon the Table, and to be printed.

GERMANY (TARIFF TREATIES AND TRADE).
Return ordered "showing the value of the imports into Germany in 1909 from the United Kingdom and from each of the principal European countries with which Germany has concluded Tariff Treaties, by principal-groups of Articles, distinguishing between those on which the existing rates of duty are (a) higher than, (b) equal to, or (c) less Wan the minimum rates of the German Tariff in force at the time of the Tariff negotiations."—[Mr. Buxton.]
EAST INDIA (INCOME AND EXPENDITURE).
Address for "Return of the net income and expenditure of British India, under certain specified heads, for the eleven years from 1899–1900 to 1909–10."—[Mr. Montagu.]
ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS.

  Royal Fleet Reserve (Discharge Gratuity).
  Mr. WILLIAM PEELasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he was prepared to reconsider the case of Simeon Bishop, late of the Royal Fleet Reserve, who sustained a serious injury whilst

  405
  undergoing his period of training at Plymouth in 1908, and was consequently discharged from the Reserve as medically unfit; and, having regard to the fact that he is unable to support himself or his family since his discharge and has been compelled to apply to the Taunton board of guardians for maintenance, he will grant to Simeon Bishop such compensation as will enable him to maintain his independence and relieve the Taunton ratepayers from a burden which should more properly fall on the Exchequer?
  The FIRST LORD of the ADMIRALTY (Mr. McKenna): This man was not invalided from the Royal Fleet Reserve in consequence of the comparatively trifling injury to his wrist which he sustained during his training. He was discharged for chronic rheumatoid arthritis chiefly involving the shoulder joint. After very careful consideration, however, it was decided that the injury might not impossibly have aggravated in some degree the condition which eventually necessitated his invaliding and his discharge gratuity of £13 was accordingly made up to the maximum of £50. The case does not warrant any further charge against public funds.
  Mr. PEEL: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this unfortunate man was able to keep a wife and six children before the accident, and that since then he has been absolutely incapable of working for himself, and that he has been thrown with his wife and children entirely upon the rates?
  Mr. McKENNA: As I have explained to the hon. Member the fact that the man was rendered absolutely incapable of work was not clue to the accident. I have given the maximum amount which is allowed out of public funds.
  Mr. PEEL: Is it not a fact that the arthritis was very much increased and produced complete disability owing to the fact that he met with this accident?
  Mr. McKENNA: No. I understand it may be possible that it was accelerated, but I understand that arthritis of the shoulder would not arise from an accident to the wrist. He has, however, been given the maximum which I am allowed to give.
  Mr. CLYNESasked whether, in the case of an established employé being accidentally killed, his widow or other dependents would receive the amount due
  406
  under the Superannuation Act, 1909, in addition to the compensation due under the Admiralty scheme of 1907?
  Mr. McKENNA: The answer is in the affirmative.
  Mr. CLYNESasked the First Lord of the Admiralty if he will state what procedure has to be adopted by the dependents of deceased employés in claiming compensation due for accident; what deductions, if any, are made from the amount of compensation, and for what purpose; and whether any legal expenses are required to be incurred by such dependents?
  Mr. McKENNA: It is only necessary for the dependents in such cases to lodge their claim with the head of the establishment in which the deceased person was employed. The only deductions made are those imposed by the Workmen's Compensation Act, 1906, namely, the amount of any weekly payments in respect of the injury and any lump sum paid in redemption thereof. No legal expenses are required to be incurred by such dependents.

  Firth of Forth Fishermen (Loss of Nets).
  Major ANSTRUTHER-GRAYasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether claims had been received for nets, etc., destroyed by torpedo boats or other of His Majesty's ships in the Firth of Forth between the evening of the 6th and the morning of the 7th March, or any other date when the fishing boats were lying attached to their nets and with the regulation lights burning, from the following, namely, John Stewart, of the boat "Grateful," James Hodge, of the boat "Curlew," Alexander Hughes, of the boat "Nancy," George Hughes, of the boat "Victoria Cross," James Bowman, of the boat "Guide-me," and any others from Cellar-dyke, Anstruther, Pittenween, or St. Monans; whether these claims are in process in consideration or settlement; and whether, seeing that the loss of their nets and gear is a hindrance to these men pursuing their avocation and gaining a livelihood for wives and children dependent upon them, he will do his best to expedite the payment of these claims as soon as possible?
  Mr. McKENNA: Claims have been received from the men named, with the exception of James Bowman of the boat "Guide-me." It has been necessary to call for reports from the fleet. These

  407
  have been received, and the claims are being considered in relation to these reports. It is hoped that an early decision may be arrived at.

  Admiralty Contract, Hammersmith (Fair-wages Clause).
  Mr. BARNESasked the First Lord of the Admiralty if investigation had yet been made into the allegations made against Messrs. Gwynnes, of Hammersmith, in regard to the non-fulfilment of the fair-wages clause in a Government contract; and, if so, if he would state the result?
  Mr. McKENNA: A preliminary investigation has been made, but further information was found to be necessary. This will be available and the investigation completed at the end of this week.

  Royal Fleet Reserve (Emigration).
  Lord CHARLES BERESFORDasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he can see his way to allowing men of the Royal Fleet Reserve to emigrate to the Colonies in the same manner as Army Reservists?
  Mr. McKENNA: It is regretted that the requirements of the Service do not admit of Royal Fleet Reserve men who emigrate retaining their membership of that Reserve. The men join the Royal Fleet Reserve on the understanding that they must not reside permanently outside the British Isles. Those who wish to emigrate may be granted a free discharge from the Reserve.

  Naval Medical Service.
  Lord CHARLES BERESFORDasked whether there is a deficiency of sixty-six surgeons on the establishment for those officers in the Navy List; whether the number of ships in commission will probably be increased; and what steps the Admiralty intend to take to fill these vacancies?
  Mr. McKENNA: The number of surgeons is at present fifty-four below the authorised establishment. It is hoped that the recommendations of the Committee on the Naval Medical Service, when carried into effect, will enable the deficiency to be made good.
  Lord CHARLES BERESFORD: Can the right hon. Gentleman state the cause
  408
  of the unpopularity of this branch of the naval profession?
  Mr. McKENNA: The Committee investigated the subject and made various proposals to get over the difficulties which we have at present in recruiting. I hope that as soon as those difficulties are got over we shall be able to get the necessary numbers.
  Lord C. BERESFORD: Will the House be able to see what they receive in the way of pay?
  Mr. McKENNA: Perhaps the Noble Lord will put that question down.
  Sir CLEMENT KINLOCH-COOKE: When will the recommendations come into force?
  Mr. McKENNA: As more than one Department is involved I am not in a position to answer.
  Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKE: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that it affects sick-berth stewards as well?
  Mr. McKENNA: Yes.

  Naval Guns and Gun Mountings (Price).
  Lord CHARLES BERESFORDasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is now in a position to say why it is contrary to public interest to state the price of guns, gun-mountings, and ammunition in detail in precisely the same way as the price of ships, hull, machinery, equipment, etc., is stated in the Navy Estimates; what is the average price of armour per ton paid by the Admiralty during the last ten years, stating the price in each particular year; and what reason is there why prices received by the Admiralty from contractors for their several requirements should not be published regularly in the same way as contract tenders are published by the municipal authorities of the United Kingdom?
  Mr. McKENNA: Apart from the general reasons why it is undesirable to publish contract prices, which are given in a paper presented to Parliament in March, 1888 (Cd. 5348), and in the main still hold good, such information in the case of armour would tend to disclose actual weights, and in the case of guns and ammunition the standard of reserves.

  Canton Disturbances.
  Mr. HOUSTONasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware of dis-

  409
  turbance and rioting at Canton, resulting in the loss of many lives; whether he is aware that German and American warships have already proceeded there to protect German and American subjects and interests; if he will state the British warship or warships at Canton and the name or names, tonnage, speed, and armaments thereof; and, if not at Canton, what British warships there are in Chinese waters; where they are at present; what are their tonnage, speed, and armaments; and whether they are all in a thoroughly efficient condition?
  Mr. McKENNA: The river gunboats "Moorhen" and "Robin" have been at Canton since the 28th April. The destroyer "Handy" and the gunboats "Bramble" and "Britomart" are held in readiness at Hong Kong. The Commander-in-Chief, in telegraphing to-day, states that the situation is not serious, the outbreak during the night of the 27th April having been crushed before the news of it was received, and that His Majesty's Consul-General considers further protection is not required. According to our information, the German gunboat "Iltis" and the United States sloop "Wilmington" left Hong Kong on the 1st May for Canton.
  Mr. HOUSTON: Arising out of that, which is exceedingly satisfactory, may I express regret that the Admiralty was not equally successful recently in connection with another matter?
  Mr. McKENNA: I do not admit that.

  "Dreadnoughts" (Date of Laying Down).
  Mr. MIDDLEMOREasked the latest date, according to the building period allowed in current contracts, on which ships of the "Dreadnought" type can be laid down for the British Fleet for completion in 1913?
  Mr. McKENNA: As the current contracts for large armoured ships are for completion in two years, the latest date would be 31st December, 1911.

  Merchant Ships (Carrying Guns).
  Mr. MIDDLEMOREasked whether a British merchant ship has the right to carry guns or arms as a protection against capture or destruction in war time by a merchant vessel of the enemy that has been provided with guns and arms for the purpose of commerce destruction?
  Mr. McKENNA: I do not know of any law to prevent her from carrying arms or from using them in self-defence.

  Naval Shipwrights (Chargemen's Wages).
  Sir CLEMENT KINLOCH-COOKEasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that a chargeman of shipwrights is responsible for thirty-two men; that it is a common occurrence for some of these men to receive 2s. 6d. a week more than the chargeman himself; and whether he can see his way to amend the payment of chargemen so that this inequality may disappear?
  Mr. McKENNA: The number of men supervised by a chargeman of shipwrights may be as stated. The wages of a workman may occasionally, when on piece work, amount to more than those of the supervising chargeman, but this is the exception, not the rule. The pay of charge-men is now under consideration in connection with the annual petitions from the dockyard employés.

  Royal Dockyards (Metropolitan Police).
  Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKEasked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware of the hardship accruing to members of the dockyard divisions of the Metropolitan police owing to the regulation that no policeman can be permitted to serve in the same yard as a relative; and whether he will consider the advisability of amending the regulation so as to enable the sons of dockyard policemen, fortunate enough to secure dockyard apprenticeships, being allowed to work in the same yard where their fathers are on duty, seeing that the present arrangement requires either the boy to give up the position he has gained or his father to transfer himself to another yard, thereby causing the home to be broken up and other domestic and financial hardships?
  Mr. McKENNA: The Commissioner of Metropolitan police is responsible for all matters relating to the discipline and efficiency of the dockyard police.
  Sir C. KINLOCH-COOKE: Would the right hon. Gentleman kindly reply to my question?
  Mr. McKENNA: I have replied to the question. The hon. Member may not be aware that the Commissioner of Metropolitan Police is under the Home Office and not the Admiralty.

  British and Foreign Naval Construction.
  Mr. BURGOYNEasked on what date it is proposed to launch the battleship-cruiser "Australia"; why this vessel and the "New Zealand" have been so long upon the stocks, and the contract time for their construction from the date of order to delivery?
  Mr. McKENNA: The "Australia" will probably be launched about the third week in October next. The contract period from date of order to date of delivery of the "New Zealand" and "Australia" is thirty months. The length of time these vessels will have been on the stocks is a matter in which the Admiralty do not interfere with the discretion of the shipbuilders, so long as there is a reasonable probability of the vessels being delivered by the contract dates, as is the case with these ships.
  Mr. BURGOYNEasked if the four armoured ships of the German 1910–11 programme and the United States battleships "New York" and "Texas" have yet been laid down; and, if so, upon what dates; and when it is anticipated they will be completed?
  Mr. McKENNA: With regard to the German ships, I have nothing to add to the answer given to the hon. Member on the 14th February. The "Texas" was laid down during February last. We have no information regarding the date of the laying down of the "New York," but it is understood that the vessel will be laid down shortly. The time for completing these ships is thirty-six months from the date of commencement.
  Mr. CHIOZZA MONEY: Can the right hon. Gentleman state when the orders were given for these ships?
  Mr. McKENNA: The contracts were given out at the beginning of the financial year. I cannot give any information beyond that which I have already stated.
  Mr. BURGOYNEasked whether the two-year period of construction in regard to the battleships "Ajax" and "Audacious" and the battleship-cruiser "Queen Mary" is reckoned from the date of order or from the day the first keel-plate was laid; when the order for these three ships was placed; and when it is anticipated that they will be delivered to the Admiralty?
  Mr. McKENNA: The two-year period of construction is reckoned practically from
  412
  the date of order and not from the date of laying the first keel-plate, as will be seen from the following dates:—
  Mr. BURGOYNEasked whether the First Lord of the Admiralty has any knowledge as to the mounting of guns of 14-in. calibre in any German battleships building or ordered; and, if so, to which programme these ships belong?
  Mr. McKENNA: We have no official information as to the mounting of 14-in. calibre guns in any German warships.
  Lord C. BERESFORD: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware, officially or unofficially, that there is a 14-inch gun in construction in Germany?
  Mr. McKENNA: I am not in a position to give any but official information.
  Mr. BURGOYNEasked whether, now that the first of the class has commenced her trials, he can state the displacement, designed horse-power, speed, and armament of the German battleships "Ostfriesland," "Helgoland," "Thuringen," and "Oldenburg"; and whether he can give similar details of the battleship-cruisers "Moltke" and "Goeben."
  Mr. McKENNA: We have no official information regarding these vessels of the nature asked for.

  Engineer-Commanders (Royal Navy).
  Mr. BURGOYNEasked the pay per day of an engineer-commander during his first two years' service in that rank?
  Mr. McKENNA: The pay is 24s. a day, subject to the completion of sixteen years from date of promotion to engineer-lieutenant, but if he has not completed that period he remains on the scale of pay provided for engineer-lieutenants. In this connection, I must refer the hon. Member to the Written Answer I gave to the Noble Lord the Member for Portsmouth on 9th March last.
  Mr. BURGOYNE: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there was a circular-letter issued on 12th October, 1902, containing a proviso as to the length of period of service, and fixing the minimum rate of pay for engineer-commanders at 24s. a day, and that the money to meet

  413
  this increase appeared on the Estimates for 1903–4 and 1904–5?
  Mr. McKENNA: The hon. Gentleman is going back to a period long before I was in office. I prefer that the hon. Member should give me notice of the question, which relates to the acts of my predecessor.
  Lord C. BERESFORD: Were the engineer-commanders given distinctly to understand by the circular that they were to receive 24s. a day, and does not the right hon. Gentleman think that it is very unfair to those officers that, after they had been given to understand that their pay was to be 24s. a day, it should be reduced from 24s. to 18s. per day.
  Mr. McKENNA: I can only remind the Noble Lord that the pledge was given in 1902, and I must have time to refresh my memory before I admit any such claim. If the pledge was given it would seem to have been broken in the time of the late Government. I will refresh my memory before I answer the question.
  Mr. BURGOYNE: May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is endeavouring to evade the responsibilities of his office?
  Mr. McKENNA: I am not in the least evading them. I only ask for notice in regard to a question relating to matters in 1902.

  Torpedo Destroyers (Collision).
  Mr. MITCHELL-THOMSONasked whether the First Lord of the Admiralty has any official information to the effect that two torpedo destroyers have been in collision off the Isle of Skye; and, if so, whether the resultant damage is serious?
  Mr. McKENNA: The "Leopard" and "Arab" have been in collision in the neighbourhood of the Isle of Skye. The "Leopard" has been damaged in the region of the fore stokehold and the "Arab" has received serious damage to the bow.

  British Warships Abroad.
  Mr. HOUSTONasked for the names, tonnage, speed, and armaments of British warships in West Indian waters, stating where they are at present and if they are in a thoroughly efficient condition?
  Mr. McKENNA: The vessels are the "Melpomene," at present en route from Bermuda to Port au Prince; the "Brilliant," which is at Bermuda, and is
  414
  available for service in the West Indies when not employed in Newfoundland; and the "Scylla," which is returning to England, and will be relieved by the "Aeolus," now at Devonport. The "Scylla" is of 3,400 tons, and the remaining vessels of 3,600 tons; all are of 16; knots speed under ordinary conditions, and carry armanent as shown in the Return standing in the name of the late Sir Charles Dilke. They are in a thoroughly efficient condition.
  Mr. HOUSTONasked the names, tonnage, speed, and armaments of any war ships at present stationed, or cruising, for the protection of British subjects, trade, shipping, and interests between Panama and Para, via Magellan or Cape Horn, and if they are all in a thoroughly efficient condition; and whether he can state the names of the German and American warships in these waters?
  Mr. McKENNA: His Majesty's ships. "Kent" and "Challenger" are now at Callao. The "Amethyst" has just left Bahia to be relieved by the "Glasgow." These ships are in a thoroughly efficient condition. Tonnage, armament, and speed, under ordinary conditions:—

  "Kent"

  …

  9,800 tons

  …

  23 knots.

  "Challenger"

  …

  5,880 tons

  …

  20½ Knots.

  "Amethyst"

  …

  3,000 tons

  …

  22½ knots.

  "Glasgow"

  …

  4,800 tons

  …

  25 knots.

  The armament is as shown in the Return standing in the name of the late Sir Charles Dilke. The "Yorktown," United States third-class unprotected cruiser of 1,710 tons, is at Panama. This is the only United States warship in the waters in question. There is no German warship, there.
  Mr. HOUSTON: Am I to understand from the right hon. Gentleman that there are no British warships on the east coast of South America?
  Mr. McKENNA: I have just stated that the "Amethyst" has just left Bahia, having been relieved by the "Glasgow." I think that is on the east coast.
  Mr. HOUSTON: Quite so; but the right hon. Gentleman did not pronounce the name correctly.
  Lord C. BERESFORD: With reference to the vessels the right hon. Gentleman has mentioned, would he describe them as being on visit or on the station?
  Mr. McKENNA: Some on visit, and some on station.

  Morocco.
  Mr. GINNELLasked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he is in a position to say whether the present French intervention in Morocco has been instigated by the British Government?
  The UNDER-SECRETARY for FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. McKinnon Wood): No, Sir; it has not been so instigated.
  Mr. NEWMAN: May I ask whether the Irish Brigade would like to give assistance to the Moors?

  Imperial Preference (Mr. Taft's Speech).
  Mr. NEWMANasked whether the Foreign Secretary's attention has been drawn to a speech delivered by the President of the United States of America at a banquet of the Associated Press at Washington on the 27th ultimo, when the President described the policy of Imperial Preference as a Chinese Wall; and whether, in view of the recent arbitration proposals between the United States and the Empire, he will cause representation to be made in the proper quarter with a view to obviate the friction likely to be caused by this remark and the consequent danger to the policy of arbitration?
  Mr. NORTON-GRIFFITHSasked the Prime Minister if his attention has been drawn to the speech at a banquet given to the Associated Press and American Newspaper Publishing Assocaition, in which President Taft appealed to his audience, the principal representatives of the American Press, to advocate reciprocity with Canada before it was too late and before a system of preferential tariffs could he adopted binding the British Empire together; and if he will request His Majesty's Ambassador at Washington to cable a verbatim report of President Taft's speech and lay the same upon the Table of the House?
  Mr. McKINNON WOOD:I will reply to these questions together, the second for the Prime Minister. I have observed in the Press a report of the speech in question. I do not see in that speech any grounds for making a representation to the United States Government.
  Mr. NEWMAN: May I ask if, in the opinion of the Foreign Office, those words represent an expression of opinion by the President of the United States, or are they something in the nature of a blazing indiscretion?
  Mr. McKINNON WOOD: No, Sir. I say nothing of the kind, and I should think a remark of that kind extremely improper.
  Mr. MacCALLUM SCOTT: In view of the fact that the vast majority of the people of this country hold the same view as the American President, is it not likely rather to cause harmony than friction?
  Mr. NORTON-GRIFFITHS (subsequently): On a point of Order, Mr. Speaker, may I ask your ruling as to whether an answer given to my hon. Friend the Member for Enfield was an answer given to the last part, in which I ask for cabled information?
  Mr. SPEAKER: I am afraid I cannot answer that. I do not bear all the answers in my head.
  Mr. NORTON-GRIFFITHS: May I ask the Prime Minister to answer the last three lines of my question.
  Mr. SPEAKER: The hon. Member should have asked that question when the answer was given. We cannot go back now.

  British East Africa Protectorate (Land Laws).
  Mr. GUINNESSasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies on what date the present land laws of the British East Africa Protectorate came into force, for what term leases are granted to settlers thereunder, and how many applications for land have been dealt with in each of the last five years?
  The SECRETARY of STATE for the COLONIES (Mr. Harcourt): The answer to the first question is the 1st of October, 1902; to the second, 99 years, with a revision of rent at the end of the thirty-third and sixty-sixth years. Half-yearly returns of the land grants made from the 1st of January, 1906, to the 30th of June, 1910, will be found appended to the reports on the Protectorate for 1905–6 and the subsequent years, which have been presented to Parliament. During the half-year ended the 31st of December, 1910, the return for which has not yet been published, 121 such grants were made.
  Mr. GUINNESS: If the Government maintain the right to raise the rent at the end of thirty-three years, is not that from the point of view of the tenants the same as thirty-three years only?
  Mr. HARCOURT: No, Sir.
  Mr. WEDGWOOD: Is it not the fact that the rent is only raised on the unimproved value of the land and not on any improvement whatever?
  Mr. HARCOURT: Yes, Sir.
  Mr. ASHLEY: Are we to understand that there are no modifications?
  Mr. HARCOURT: I have stated exactly what the facts are in my reply.
  Mr. GUINNESSasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether a parallel to the system of land tenure now in force in the British East Africa Protectorate can be found in any other Crown Colony or Protectorate?
  Mr. HARCOURT: Yes, Sir.
  Mr. GUINNESS: Can the right hon. Gentleman say in which Colony?
  Mr. HARCOURT: In Northern Nigeria.
  Mr. WEDGWOOD: Is it not the fact that the same regulations are to be found in all the German Colonies?
  Mr. GUINNESSasked whether the right hon. Gentleman was aware that the present Home Secretary, when Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies, stated that the settlers in the British East Africa Protectorate should hold their land on terms making it a marketable and mortgageable security; and whether he will explain why banks in the Protectorate are not willing to make advances on the security of unimproved land held on lease?
  Mr. HARCOURT: I do not know whether these words were used by my right hon. Friend, but they undoubtedly appeared in Lord Elgin's despatch laying down the policy of revisable leases of ninety-nine years—a policy with which these words are fully consistent. I have no information as to the action of banks in the Protectorate.
  Mr. GUINNESS: Was this system submitted to the Legislative Council?
  Mr. HARCOURT: I should like notice of that question.

  Emigration (Trade Disputes).
  Mr. CLYNESasked the Secretary of State for the Colonies whether he is aware that Colonial agents are abroad in this country inducing men to emigrate with the object of taking the place of men involved in trade disputes, especially in the
  418
  case of miners in Nova Scotia; and whether he will frame any regulations to prevent emigration for such purposes or promise legislation on the subject?
  Mr. HARCOURT: My attention has not previously been called to the matter. The existence of a strike at Spring Hill, Nova Scotia, has been mentioned in the Quarterly Circular on Canada published by the Emigrants' Information Office ever since the strike began in 1909, and in the current issue of the circular, dated 1st April, coal miners are warned to be cautious in going to these mines in search of work at the present time. I can promise no action to restrict the free movement of free people.
  Sir GILBERT PARKER: May I ask why it is that emigrants are warned about going to those mines at present?
  Mr. HARCOURT: They are warned of the facts which exist in the mines at the present moment. All emigrants or intending emigrants asking for information are given all the information which can be of use to them.
  Mr. HARRY LAWSON: Is not the information as to strikes of this kind always circulated through the Emigrants' Information Office?
  Mr. HARCOURT: Yes, it is.
  Mr. CLYNES: Inasmuch as the right hon. Gentleman cannot promise legislation, may I ask whether he can do anything in the matter of regulation?
  Mr. HARCOURT: I do not think so.

  Coronation Procession.
  Mr. LEES SMITHasked the hon. Member for Southampton, as representing the First Commissioner of Works, whether it is intended to carry out the suggestions of the memorandum submitted to the Coronation Committee that representatives of commerce, labour, local government, literature, science, and other factors in the life of the nation should be invited to witness the Coronation procession as His Majesty's guests?
  The TREASURER of the HOUSEHOLD (Mr. Dudley Ward): This is not a matter for the First Commissioner. He understands, however, a reply to the memorandum was made by the Coronation Committee on Monday last.
  Mr. LEES SMITH: Are we to understand that, whereas public money raised by the Estimates in this House is being spent, there is no Minister in this House or the other House responsible for this expenditure so that Members of this House are to get an opportunity of asking for information?

  Public Service Requirements.
  Mr. NIELDasked when the Departmental Committee for considering and reporting upon the adequacy of the provision for meeting the requirements for the accommodation of the public service was appointed; who are the members of such Committee, and what progress has been made by it?
  Mr. DUDLEY WARD: The Committee in question was appointed in November last; the First Commissioner being Chairman, and the Permanent Secretary of the Treasury and the Secretary of the Office of Works members. No report which could be published has been made, but as stated in my answer of Monday last to the hon. Member, the information obtained has been placed before His Majesty's Government.
  Mr. NIELDasked what were the terms of reference to the Departmental Committee appointed to consider and report upon the adequacy of the provision for meeting the requirements for the accommodation of the public service; and whether such reference contains any instruction to consider the question from the point of view that the Prime Minister has promised to concede Home Rule to Ireland next year, and the housing of the staff in Dublin or elsewhere in Ireland for the transaction of the business of an independent or restricted Irish Executive Government?
  Mr. SWIFT MacNEILL: Before the hon. Gentleman answers this question, may I ask him whether he is aware that the Parliament House of Ireland, whose architect was a Member of the Irish House of Commons, will be available for the restored Irish Parliament and the offices of the Irish Executive?
  Mr. DUDLEY WARD: The inquiry of the Committee has been limited solely to the present needs for further accommodation for Public Departments in London. With regard to the latter part of the hon. Member's question, no such instruction was made to the Committee.

  Case of Elizabeth Timmins (Dudley).
  Mr. ASHLEYasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the fact that Elizabeth Timmins was sentenced by the Recorder at Dudley Quarter Sessions, on Monday, 24th April, to three weeks' imprisonment as an incorrigible rogue and that she was discharged on Wednesday 26th, by order of the Home Office, he will say whether, before ordering the release of this woman, he communicated with and asked for the views of the judge who passed the sentence?
  The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. Churchill): Neither I nor any one in the Home Office had heard of this case until the hon. Member' s question appeared on the Paper. I have now made inquiry, and find that the Governor released the prisoner because she had, in his opinion, earned her discharge under Section 8 of the Prison Act, 1898. Under that Section a prisoner can by good conduct and industry earn a remission of one-sixth of his sentence; and in this case, the Governor, in calculating the remission, added to the sentence of twenty-one days a period of ninety-eight days during which the woman was in prison waiting sentence, with the result that she was released on 26th April, I doubt if the Governor's reading of the law is right, but I will look further into the matter.

  Appointment of Mines Inspectors.
  Sir WALTER MENZIESasked the Home Secretary whether, in view of the discontent with the principle of nomination for posts of mines inspectors at present under his patronage, he will withdraw the present nomination forms, issue new stringent and minimum qualifications; and acknowledge that every candidate fulfilling these conditions has a right to competitive examination upon payment of a fee to cover examination expenses; and whether he will consider if the expenses of a journey to London and hotel expenses would then be a sufficient deterrent to unsuitable candidates?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: I would refer my hon. Friend to the answer I gave him on 20th April. I have no reason to think there is any general discontent with the system of filling these appointments, which has worked well, and has secured for the competitive examination a wide choice of candidates, possessing suitable qualifications, for the work of an inspector.
  Sir W. MENZIES: May I ask is the right hon. Gentleman aware that inferior men are taken and superior men refused nomination?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: am certainly not aware that my hon. Friend has proved that point. Obviously questions as to who are inferior or superior are matters of opinion.
  Sir W. MENZIES: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that I have handed the Under-Secretary examination papers to prove that in one particular case at least the superior man has been refused nomination and the inferior has received it.
  Mr. CHURCHILL: I shall be glad to be placed in possession of the data on which my hon. Friend bases his decision as to who is inferior or superior, as the data vary very widely.
  Mr. WATT: Can the right hon. Gentleman see his way to do away with the nomination principle altogether?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: No, I do not think it would be a good plan. I cannot debate the question now, but I should be quite ready to do so. I believe it is a very good system that there should be nominations of persons who are suitable to compete, and that then there should be open competition amongst the selected class.

  Coal Dust Experiments (Committee of Experts).
  Mr. ENOCH EDWARDSasked whether any arrangements are being made to continue the experiments with coal dust which have been carried on during the last three years by representatives of the coal owners and others at Altofts Colliery and elsewhere; and whether the Government are prepared to undertake the control and responsibility of the experiments, in view of their great importance to the mining population in the direction of the prevention of coal dust explosions?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: This matter has been receiving the careful consideration of my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and myself, and I am glad now to be able to state that it has been decided to continue these experiments under the supervision of the Home Office, and that the Treasury have sanctioned the considerable expenditure that will be necessary for the purpose. The Mining Association have offered to place at the dis-
  422
  posal of the Government for the purposes of the experiments the plant and instrument now in use at Altofts, an offer which I have gladly accepted, and arrangements are being made for starting work as soon as possible on a new site. I have appointed an expert committee, who will be directly in charge of the experiments, consisting of:—
  Sir Henry Cunynghame, K.C.B. (Assistant-Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, Chairman of the Royal Commission on Mines);
  Mr. R. A. S. Redmayne (Chief Inspector of Mines);
  Captain Desborough (one of H.M. Inspectors of Explosives);
  Professor H. B. Dixon, F.R.S. (Professor of Chemistry at Manchester University); and
  Mr. W. Cuthbert Blackett, Consulting Mining Engineer.
  I have also requested the members of the Royal Commission on Mines and of the Coal Dust Committee of the Mining Association, under whose supervision the previous series of experiments was conducted, to act as a consultative committee in connection with the experiments. By associating the members of the Royal Commission on Mines with the expert committee, I am glad that the Government will have the advantage of the advice of the hon. Member and two of his colleagues in the Miners' Federation, the right hon. Member for the Rhondda Valley and Mr. Smillie.
  Lord BALCARRES: Is there a certificated Manager on the Committee?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: Mr. Redmayne is, of course.

  Case of George Townsend (Towcester).
  Mr. KELLAWAYasked the Home Secretary if his attention has been called to the case of George Townsend, who was charged at the Towcester divisional petty sessions with a breach of the Poaching Prevention Act, and with being in possession of a gun and live cartridges at Towcester on 14th March, for which alleged offence he was fined 30s. and his gun confiscated; if the evidence showed that Townsend was stopped by the police while cycling along the high road, on the ground that he had a gun on his cycle, had mud on his trousers, and was followed by a mongrel collie dog; if Townsend proved that he had a licence to carry a gun, and a witness for the defence declared that he

  423
  had been with defendant the whole time, and they had not left, the high road; and if, in view of these facts, he proposes to take any steps in the case?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: I have now made inquiry with regard to the case. The question is one of evidence, and I do not feel able upon any information at my disposal to confirm or reverse the decision to which the justices came. The prisoner had a right of appeal to quarter sessions, and his previous record comprises fifteen convictions.
  Mr. KELLAWAY: Is the right of appeal any use to a man like this who is working for a wage of from 15s. to 16s. per week, and did he not pay the penalty of his previous convictions?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: The question I have to settle is whether I can endeavour to retry a case unless new facts or very surprising circumstances are brought to the notice of the Home Secretary. I do not think there are any grounds for expecting me to try and judge matters which only those who see the witnesses and the prisoner can form a judgment upon.
  Mr. J. WARD: Are we to take it for granted that the fact of a man going along a road with dirty trousers and a dog, and that he has been previously convicted, is sufficient to convict him again?

  Removal of Convicts.
  Mr. PICKERSGILLasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether it was with his knowledge and sanction that convicts being conveyed from one prison to another were unnecessarily exposed to the public gaze; and whether he would cause such arrangements to be made as would prevent such exhibitions?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: No, Sir. The hon. Gentleman knows quite well that I have given no sanction to the unnecessary exposure of convicts in transit to the public gaze. On the contrary, every convenient arrangement to prevent it is and will be made.
  Mr. PICKERSGILL: Has the right hon. Gentleman read the description given by a famous man of letters of the show which was made of him, when a convict, on the platform at Clapham Junction?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: I have not studied his work; I do not know his name.
  Mr. PICKERSGILL: I will send it to the right hon. Gentleman.

  Passive Resistance (Case of Rev. S. J. Ford).
  Mr. ALDENasked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he was aware that the magistrates at Nailsworth petty sessions had committed the Rev. S. J. Ford to prison for two months because he refused to pay an education rate of 1s. 9d., though he offered to pay the poor rate of £1 14s. 3d.; and whether he would, under the circumstances, take steps to mitigate the severity of the sentence?
  Mr. HICKS BEACH: Before the right hon. Gentleman replies, is it not a fact that this rev. gentleman has regularly for some years past broken the law in this respect; and that light sentences being quite ineffectual, the magistrates were unanimous in passing the sentence in question; and that two of the magistrates were Liberal Nonconformists?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: The facts are as stated in the question. The sentence is stupid and vindictive, but I am advised that I have no power to annul it as the Prerogative of the Crown does not cover cases of civil debt. Mr. Ford must, therefore, suffer this ill-usage, but it is to be hoped that the moral will not be lost on the public.
  Mr. HICKS BEACH: Is it not a fact that of the magistrates who passed this "stupid and vindictive" sentence two were Liberal Nonconformists?
  Mr. ASHLEY: On what ground and by what right does the right hon. Gentleman say the sentence is stupid and vindictive?
  Mr. PEEL: Was that answer political or Ministerial?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: I gave the answer to the House of Commons, speaking as the representative of the Home Office and as a Member of the House of Commons.
  Mr. PRIMROSE: Can the right hon. Gentleman induce his colleague, the Lord Chancellor, to dilute the magisterial bench at Nailsworth?
  Mr. HICKS BEACH: What steps are the magistrates to take if a person is brought before them regularly for commit-

  425
  ting an offence and upon whom light sentences have no effect?
  Mr. CHURCHILL: I say that a sentence of two months imposed in these circumstances is stupid and vindictive.

  Workmen's Compensation Act (Ireland).
  Mr. HODGEasked the Attorney-General for Ireland why the registrars of county courts in Ireland refused to register memoranda of agreements made under the provisions of the Workmen's Compensation Act between employers and employed; whether the Belfast county court judge had upheld the registrar of that court in such refusal; whether any different regulations were in force in Irish county courts with respect to the registration of such agreements as compared with English county courts; and, if so, would he explain the reason for the difference?
  The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND (Mr. Redmond Barry): I am not aware that the registrars of county courts in Ireland refuse to register memoranda of agreements under the Workmen's Compensation Act. The rule regulating the practice is No. 4 of the Rules dated 1st June, 1909, and under it, in the Belfast case referred to, the Recorder of Belfast held that a mere verbal agreement could not be registered. I understand that decision was affirmed by the Irish Court of Appeal on 24th April last. I do not know what construction is placed on the English Rule dealing with the matter—namely, No. 42 (2) of the Rules dated 19th May, 1909. The terms of the Rules do not correspond. The Irish Rules were made by the rule-making authority, no doubt upon the view taken by them of the requirements under Clause 9 of the second Schedule to the Act. There is, I believe, no difficulty whatever in complying with the Irish rule.

  Census (Scotland).
  Mr. EUGENE WASONasked the Lord Advocate what was the population of each county in Scotland according to the recent Census, with the increase or decrease as compared with 1901?
  The LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. Ure): The population of Scotland as a whole at the 1901 Census was 4,472,103, and I am informed by the Registrar-General for Scotland that according to the preliminary examination of the returns of the recent Census the population of Scotland as a whole was 4,759,521, thus showing an
  426
  actual increase of 287,418, or 6.4 per cent. during these ten years. The preliminary totals for the various counties have also been ascertained and, as they involve a number of figures, perhaps I may be allowed to circulate them with the Votes. I may add that all these figures must be regarded as approximate and subject to corrections after the Census Returns have been thoroughly examined.
  Mr. CHIOZZA MONEY: Has the Lord Advocate's attention been directed to the fact that the increase stated is about 130,000 short of the expected increase? Will he bring the matter to the attention of the proper authorities in order to obtain a census in, say, five years from the present date, to see if this significant movement is continuing?
  Mr. CHIOZZA MONEYasked the Prime Minister if his attention has been directed to the significant preliminary results of the Census in Scotland; and if, in view of the growing importance of our national records and the rapidity with which industrial and social changes now develop, he will forthwith establish a permanent Census Department charged with the examination and analysis of the various factors of the national economy, and authorised to conduct a general and industrial Census at least every five years?
  The PRIME MINISTER (Mr. Asquith): My attention has been called to the preliminary results of the Census in Scotland. I am not in a position at the moment to give a definite reply to the last part of my hon. Friend's question, but it will no doubt be a matter for consideration whether the Census Office, which is now engaged on the tabulation of the figures obtained at the recent Census should be continued, and whether these censuses should be taken at more frequent intervals than at present.
  Mr. CHIOZZA MONEY: Is not the Census in Germany a quinquennial Census?
  Mr. WATT: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the landlords are driving these people from Scotland?

  Financial Relations (England and Ireland).
  Mr. GINNELLasked the Prime Minister, in view of the anxiety created in Ireland by the appointment of the secret ex parte committee to investigate Ireland's

  427
  financial relations for the sole benefit of the Cabinet, and the inference from the Chief Secretary's statements that it might attempt to set aside or neutralise the findings of the Financial Relations Commission, and the claim for restitution of excessive taxes based thereon, whether he would spare a day before Whitsuntide for the discussion of those relations in this House; and, if so, about what time; and having regard to the interests and rights of the Irish people in Ireland's financial relations, if he would say on what Irish recommendation or with what Irish concurrence the secret British committee on that subject had been appointed for the sole benefit of the Cabinet; and if he could name any Irish representative person or body that approved of the composition of that committee, or regarded it otherwise than with distrust?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I cannot add anything to the answers already given to the hon. Member on this subject by my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary and myself. I am unable to give a day for the discussion of this matter.

  Appointment of Magistrates.
  Sir CHARLES HENRYasked the Prime Minister whether as requests were made to him soon after the Report of the Royal Commission on the Selection of Justices of the Peace was published to give this House an opportunity to discuss the terms of the Report, he would give an early day for the consideration of that Report; and that in the meantime the appointment of the Advisory Committees should not be proceeded with?
  The PRIME MINISTER: No, Sir; as I said on Monday, I should regard the discussion suggested by my hon. Friend as inopportune at the present moment. I cannot comply with the request contained in the last part of the question.
  Mr. KINGasked who had the power of appointing the members of magistracy advisory committees; whether appointments were made for a definite or indefinite period; whether the Lord Chancellor would receive recommendations from them directly or only through the lords-lieutenant; who would act as clerks of these committees; and whether these committees would be free to receive direct applications from gentlemen desiring to serve as magistrates?
  The PRIME MINISTER: The Lord Chancellor appoints the Advisory Committees. In one or two cases they have been appointed for a short, definite period, not exceeding two years, but in general no period is fixed, so that fresh Members may be added or substituted at any time. Recommendations will doubtless usually come through the lords-lieutenant, with a statement that they are sent on the advice of the Committee, but any Member of the committee can communicate direct with the Lord Chancellor, if he so desires, in regard to names or anything else. Each committee will make its own arrangements as to clerical assistance, if required. The Committees will be free to receive direct applications from any quarter, as they may think fit. It is entirely a matter for themselves.
  Mr. PEEL: Does the Prime Minister intend to supersede the lords-lieutenant in the appointment of magistrates?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I have nothing to do with it. The Lord Chancellor is acting on the recommendation of the Royal Commission.
  Mr. KING: Will the right hon. Gentleman assure the House that in future no appointments shall be made without coming before the advisory committees?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I understand that that is so.
  Sir CHARLES HENRY: Will Members of Parliament have an opportunity of recommending names to members of the advisory committees?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I understand that anyone can suggest names.
  Mr. MILDMAY: Are we to understand that recommendations of borough magistrates will also go through these committees?
  The PRIME MINISTER: So I understand.
  Mr. PRIMROSE: How can the Lord Chancellor, without local knowledge, appoint advisory committees?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I cannot say. I suppose he takes the best steps he can to acquire local knowledge.
  Mr. MORRELLrose, but
  Mr. SPEAKERcalled upon the hon. Member for Ludlow (Mr. Hunt) to put the question next in order on the Paper.
  Mr. MORRELL: Am I not entitled to ask a supplementary question?
  Mr. SPEAKER: We have already had five or six supplementary questions. There must be a limit. We have ninety-five questions on the Paper to-day.
  Mr. FRANCEasked the Prime Minister whether it is the intention of the Lord Chancellor to satisfy himself that any list of proposed justices forwarded for his consideration by the Lord-Lieutenant has been before, and is approved by, the advisory committee; and whether an advisory committee has any, and, if so, what means of communicating directly with the Lord Chancellor?
  The PRIME MINISTER: The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative unless it be an unavoidable emergency. Any member of an advisory committee can write to the Lord Chancellor if he so desires.
  Mr. MORRELL: Are the names of the advisory committees in all cases to be published?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I answered that question the other day.

  Emigration.
  Mr. CROFTasked the Prime Minister hat steps he proposed to take in order to direct, as far as possible, the stream of emigration from the United Kingdom to countries within the Empire; and whether the Government proposed to accomplish this end by means of subsidy or otherwise?
  Mr. HARCOURT: The subject of emigration will be discussed at the Imperial Conference, and it is not proposed to take further steps meanwhile. His Majesty's Government is not prepared to subsidise emigration.

  United States and Canada (Reciprocity Agreement).
  Mr. HUNTasked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that if the proposed reciprocity arrangement between the United Sates and Canada was agreed to it would reduce the trade advantages now given by Canada to the United Kingdom, he proposed to take steps to prevent similar injury to our trade with the other self-governing Colonies which now give us a preferential tariff?
  The PRIME MINISTER: No, Sir.
  Mr. HUNT: Are we to understand from the reply that no steps will be taken to prevent our trade being excluded from our own Imperial markets?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I cannot express an opinion on that subject now.
  Mr. HUNTasked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that he admitted the advantage of the preference given by Canada, and of the fact that President Taft offered Canada absolute free exchange for all products with the United States, and that he offered it with the object of preventing a system of preferential trade within the British Empire, he would bring this matter up for discussion at the coming Imperial Conference, and reconsider his opposition to any form of Imperial preference?
  The PRIME MINISTER: No, Sir.
  Mr. HUNT: Are we to understand that the right hon. Gentleman will make no effort to establish reciprocity with the rest of the Empire in order to prevent our trade with our greatest dominion being taken away by the Americans? Is there no answer?

  Imperial Conference.
  Mr. LONSDALEasked the Prime Minister whether it is intended that Parliament should go into recess during the sittings of the Imperial Conference?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I cannot make any announcement at present as to our future holidays.

  Budget Statement.
  Mr. LONSDALEasked the Prime Minister whether his attention had been called to the resolution passed by London merchants on Monday, protesting against the delay, loss, and inconvenience caused by the uncertainty as to the date of the introduction of the Budget; and whether he can now state when this year's Budget will be introduced?
  The PRIME MINISTER: My attention has been called to the resolution referred to. My right hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, intends to introduce the Budget on the 15th instant.

  Poor Law Legislation.
  Mr. ROBERT HARCOURTasked the Prime Minister whether he has examined the speech delivered on Thursday last by the President of the Local Government

  431
  Board; wheher these observations represent the considered opinion of the Cabinet as to the necessity for Poor Law legislation when time and opportunity permit; whether he has now observed the emphatic protest made by Lord George Hamilton, the chairman of the recent Royal Commission, and his suggestion for organised action; and whether, in view of the anxiety already publicly and formally expressed, he can make any statement on the subject?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I have read my right hon. Friend's speech and the letter from Lord George Hamilton which appeared in "The Times" of Monday. I gather from the full report of the speech that my right hon. Friend expressed the opinion that in view of what the Government have done and are proposing to do in connection with such matters as old age pensions, labour exchanges, land and housing reform, and insurance against invalidity and unemployment—measures which admittedly affect the treatment of destitution—the character of the problems remaining to be dealt with has been in some important respects modified. But my right hon. Friend and the Government quite realise that the necessity for Poor Law legislation, when time and opportunity permit, will not have been removed by these actual and contemplated reforms.
  Mr. WEDGWOOD: May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is not a fact that Liberal policy aims at removing causes of poverty rather than organising it?

  Scottish Agricultural Administration.
  Mr. YOUNGERasked the Prime Minister whether he had arranged to receive the deputation appointed to wait upon him by the Scottish Chamber of Agriculture in order to advocate their policy for reforming Scottish agricultural administration?
  The PRIME MINISTER: I have received an application from the Scottish Chamber of Agriculture, and I have replied that, owing to the pressure of engagements, I regretted that I was unable at the present time to receive a deputation.

  Small Holding Commissionerships (New Appointments).
  Colonel GRIFFITH-BOSCAWENasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Agriculture whether the Government
  432
  proposed to advertise the appointments of the six new small holdings commissionerships, with a view to securing the best qualified men; whether the professional societies, such as the Surveyors' Institution and the Land Agents' Society, had been asked to suggest the names of any suitable candidates; whether any steps had yet been taken to fill these posts; and, if so, what steps?
  The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD of AGRICULTURE (Sir E. Strachey): The answer to the first and second parts of the question is in the negative. A great many applications have been received, and these are now being considered by the President.
  Colonel GRIFFITH-BOSCAWEN: Will these Commissioners be appointed according to their professional qualifications or according to their political qualifications?
  Mr. SPEAKER: That question was answered yesterday.
  Captain CLIVEasked whether the two existing small holdings commissioners have expressed or displayed their inability to carry on their work without having their numbers increased fourfold?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: The President is responsible for the action of the Board, and it would be contrary to precedent for the opinion of permanent officials to be stated on questions of policy.
  Captain CLIVE: May I inquire whether the Commissioners who have hitherto done: the work have not done it efficiently, and is that the reason that their number is to be increased to six more?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: The appointment of further Commissioners does not imply that the present Commissioners have not carried out their work efficiently, but that they require help in order that those who have applied for and not yet received land may get it at any earlier moment?
  Mr. C. BATHURST: Do the Commissioners themselves admit that they require this help?
  Captain CLIVEasked whether the six additional small holdings commissioners to be appointed will be required to have a knowledge of the value of agricultural land and of tenant right valuations; and whether this knowledge will be previously ascertained by examination?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: In accordance with the Act the Commissioners must be persons possessed of a knowledge of agriculture. The answer to the latter part of the question is in the negative.
  Captain CLIVE: What are we to understand by knowledge of agriculture; does it mean the subjects of the question?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: The hon. Gentleman must understand what the Act provides; of course it is at the discretion of the President to carry out the Act.
  Mr. LANE-FOX: Will the hon. Baronet exclude from the appointments professional politicians and Members of this House?
  Mr. KELLAWAY: Will the hon. Baronet also exclude from the appointments any individuals who are known to be agents for large landlords, and likely to act entirely in their interests?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: In regard to both questions, the President will select the best possible men for the appointments.
  Captain CLIVEasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Agriculture, seeing that 89,253 acres were acquired for small holdings in three years under the supervision of two commissioners, if he will explain the need for six more of these gentlemen to supervise the acquisition of the remaining 60,000 or 70,000 acres which are all that are stated to be still required?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: The amount of land referred to in the latter part of the question is the estimated amount required to satisfy the present demand. Additional applications are continually being received, and the difficulties in obtaining land in the future are likely to be much greater than they have been in the past.
  Sir RANDOLF BAKER: Are these appointments to be permanent, or are they of a temporary character?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: These will be permanent appointments.
  Sir GILBERT PARKER: Why are the difficulties likely to be greater in the future?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: The difficulty with regard to many at the present moment is that they require land near, or at a reasonable distance from, their own homes. It is more difficult to provide for these than
  434
  for men who are willing to go, if need be, to a different part of the country.
  Mr. CHARLES BATHURSTasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Agriculture what is the estimated total additional cost to the Board consequent upon the appointment of the six additional small holdings commissioners, including outdoor assistants and clerical staff?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: The total additional cost to the Board will be £3,600 for salaries. No further charge will be incurred for professional or clerical assistance.
  Mr. CHARLES BATHURSTasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Agriculture whether, prior to the decision of the President of the Board to appoint additional small holdings commissioners, the permanent staff of the Department reported the need for further appointments, in order effectively to carry out the work?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: It would be contrary to precedent to state what recommendations, if any, were made on the subject by the permanent officials of the Department.

  Contagious Abortion in Cattle.
  Mr. STANIERasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Agriculture whether the Board are satisfied that the experiments carried out at Killcoona, in Ireland, for the prevention of contagious abortion in cattle have solved the problem of checking and controlling the disease?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: The experiments to which the hon. Member refers are only a very small part of the trials which the committee on epizootic abortion are having carried out. The results as a whole are not as yet ready for consideration, and it would therefore be premature to form any opinion. The committee hope to be in a position to make a report in a few months.

  Irish Cattle (Fraudulent Marking).
  Mr. EDWARD WOODasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Agriculture whether the promised inquiry into the alleged fraudulent marking of English cattle as Irish is yet completed; and whether he can state what, if any, are the existing regulations of the Board upon the subject?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: The inquiries are not yet completed. There are no regulations on the subject.
  Mr. KILBRIDE: How long is this fraud to be allowed to be carried on of passing off diseased English cows for sound Irish cattle?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: The hon. Member may be quite sure that we will expedite this matter as quickly as possible.
  Mr. KILBRIDE: May I ask whether the people who are committing this fraud in Yorkshire are not counterfeiting the Government veterinary brand which is put upon the cattle at the North Wall, Dublin, when they are exported?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: I am inquiring into that very question.
  Mr. LANE-FOX: If this allegation is true, will the hon. Baronet take immediate steps to prevent this fraud, which is certainly not the desire of the majority of the Yorkshire people?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: Yes, if I have the power to do so.

  Tobacco Licences.
  Sir WILLIAM BULLasked the President of the Board of Trade whether the number of tobacco manufacturers' licences issued during the year ended 31st March, 1910, was 383 as compared with 407 during the corresponding period ended 31st March, 1909; whether in the year 1910 there was a decrease of 6,737 in the number of retailers' licences issued as compared with an increase of 4,177 in the number of those licences issued in the year 1909; and if he can say approximately what is the number of employés thrown out of employment by this decrease in the number of licences?
  Mr. ILLINGWORTH (Lord of the Treasury, for Mr. Hobhouse): So far as the numbers of licences are conerned, I will refer the hon. Member to the reply of my right hon. Friend the Financial Secretary to the Treasury to the hon. Member for Mile End on 20th March. I know no reason to suppose that any employés have been thrown out of employment by the decrease in the number of licences. The available information suggests that employment in the tobacco trade as improving.

  British Trade Commissioners' Reports.
  Mr. HUNTasked the President of the Board of Trade whether any report, not yet published, has been received at the Board of Trade from the British Trade
  436
  Commissioners, or any of them, relative to the trade with Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, or Newfoundland; and if any Such report has been received, when it was received, why it has been withheld, and when it is intended to publish it?
  The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. Buxton): A special report by His Majesty's Trade Commissioner for Canada has recently been published. A volume containing reports by His Majesty's Trade Commissioners for Canada, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand is in the press and will be published shortly. These reports cover the period from the appointment of the Commissioners in 1908 to the end of 1910.

  Railway Servants' Wages.
  Mr. CHIOZZA MONEYasked the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that in the week in December of each of the years 1899 to 1909, inclusive, upon which the chief British railway companies reported the actual cash earnings of their servants, in four principal departments, employing nearly half a million men, to the Board of Trade, the average earnings, as distinguished from rates of pay, per week per man were stationary at or about 25s., within a few pence; if in the same period the retail prices of food, as tested by a properly weighted index number, for London rose in the period named by over 12 per cent.; and, if so, whether, seeing that the actual average real earnings, as distinguished from rates of wages, of British railway servants fell considerably in 1899–1909, he would direct the attention of railway companies to these facts?
  Mr. BUXTON: The facts stated in the question are correct. As, however, I have already informed my hon. Friend, the two sets of statistics are not comparable. The index number of prices measures the changes in the cast of identical articles of consumption weighted uniformly throughout the period. The statistics of average earnings measure the changes in the average remuneration of a large group of workmen whose composition is varying, without the correction of a uniform system of weighting. As my hon. Friend is aware the stationary character of the average earnings for the whole group may be not inconsistent with a progressive increase in the rates of remuneration of any or all of the classes of which the group is composed, inasmuch as it depends not

  437
  only on these rates, but on the varying proportions between the higher and lower paid classes. There do not appear to be sufficient grounds for making a communication to the companies.
  Mr. CHIOZZA MONEY: May I ask my right hon. Friend if it is not the case that the Prussian railway wages, measured by exactly the same statistical method, have risen by 20 per cent. in the last ten years?
  Mr. BUXTON: My hon. Friend must give me notice of that question.

  Cement Imports and Exports.
  Mr. KELLAWAYasked the President of the Board of Trade if he will give the value of the imports (for Home consumption) and the exports, domestic produce, of cement in the years 1903 and 1910?
  Mr. BUXTON: The value of the cement imported into the United Kingdom for home consumption (imports less re-exports) was £408,000 in 1903, and £77,000 in 1910. The value of the cement of domestic production exported from the United Kingdom was £677,000 in 1903 and £1,062,000 in 1910.

  American Cable Companies.
  Sir GILBERT PARKERasked the Postmaster-General whether negotiations have been completed, or are in course of completion, for the transference of the control of the Anglo-American Telegraph and the Direct United States Cable Companies to an exclusively American financial group; and, if so, whether the Government intend taking any steps to prevent the cable communication with North America being entirely dependent upon the operations of an American combine?
  The POSTMASTER-GENERAL (Mr. Herbert Samuel): Negotiations are understood to be in course of completion by which the practical control of the Anglo-American Cable Company's business will pass to the Western Union Cable Company of the United States of America with which the Anglo-American Company had formerly a working agreement. No such negotiations are, as far as I am aware, now being carried on with the Direct United States Cable Company. The new arrangement will not result in the cable communication with North America being entirely dependent upon the operations of an American combine.
  Mr. TOUCHEalso asked the Postmaster-General whether his attention had
  438
  been called to the negotiations which have been in progress having for their object the transfer of the control of the Anglo-American Telegraph Company to an American group; and if, having regard to the experience of American methods in connection with other mergers, and to the consequences which might follow from the transfer to an American combine of the control of one, and perhaps two, of the companies on which the United Kingdom depends for cable communication with North America, the Anglo-American Company having close relations with the Direct United States Cable Company, the Government have taken or are taking steps for the protection of British interests?
  Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: My attention has been called to the negotiations referred to by the hon. Member and I am taking steps by arranging for the Government to have certain powers of control over the rates for Transatlantic cable messages and by other measures to secure that no British interests suffer from the control of the Anglo-American Cable Company's business being in effect transferred to the Western Union Cable Company.
  Sir G. PARKER: Will the whole matter of cable communication come before the Imperial Conference?
  Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: The question of cable communication generally will be discussed.
  Mr. HARRY LAWSON: May I ask whether the existing agreements concerning the British Government and the Atlantic Cable Companies are affected or broken by these changes?
  Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: No, Sir; I do not think so—not the important ones. We are obtaining a very large measure of control for the first time over the rates to be charged upon the Atlantic cables.

  Post Office Writers.
  Mr. TOUCHEasked how many men would be affected by the recommendation contained in paragraph 107 of the Report of the Parliamentary Committee on Post Office Servants, issued in July, 1907, that officers of the non-clerical staff in London, who have performed the duties of post office writers for not less than two years, should be transferred to the clerical establishment; whether the writers, or their representatives, have presented any memorials pointing out that the refusal to

  439
  carry out the recommendation of the Committee in this particular instance constitutes a legitimate grievance; what reason has been assigned for such refusal; if substantially all other findings of the Committee, about the interpretation of which there is no dispute, have been put into force, whether favourable or unfavourable, to the post office staff; and does he expect soon to see his way to so deal with the case of the writers also, so as to satisfy them that they have not been specially excluded from benefits recommended by the Parliamentary Committee?
  Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: The number of men in the London postal service who would be affected by the recommendation in question is approximately 220. I have had before me a number of memorials and received a deputation from the officers interested. My predecessor decided not to adopt the Committee's recommendation, partly because of representations made to him by the association which represents the general body of the class mainly concerned, and partly because the writing duties, if taken from the general body and worked separately, would not be sufficiently responsible to warrant the creation of any but minor clerical appointments. If such appointments were created the pay they would carry in a large proportion of cases would be less than that now given for ordinary sorting duty, and the prospects of promotion would be worsened. In many cases the work could not easily or properly be separated from the current operative work, and duties which consist of writing only with their regular hours form a welcome addition to the general duties of sorters. My predecessor made it clear on more than one occasion that while he undertook to carry out the recommendations of the Select Committee in matters of alterations of scales, etc., he reserved to himself the right to review their recommendations where they dealt simply with organisation. I regret that I cannot see my way to modify the decision already communicated to the officers concerned.

  East Central Postal District.
  Mr. TYSON WILSONasked whether an increase of staff, amounting to seventy-two postmen and fifty-eight sorters, was granted by the Treasury early in March of this year for the purpose of meeting the requirements of increase of work, etc., in
  440
  the East Central district office; and whether he will give the number of hours extra duty performed by sorters and postmen respectively for the two weeks ending the 8th and 15th April last?
  Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: In March last the Treasury authorised the employment of the following additional staff:—Fifty-eight sorters, seventy postmen, and five porters. During the weeks ended the 8th and 15th April the additional officers were not rendering full service, as most of them were under training in the school of instruction. Consequently overtime to the following extent had to be incurred:—

  Dispatch of Mails (Fishguard and Liverpool).
  Mr. HARMOOD-BANNERasked whether when a Cunard steamer arrived at Fishguard her mails were at once landed by tender and despatched immediately to London by the Great Western Railway Company, but that when, owing to the weather, as had happened on several occasions since the beginning of last month, the Cunard vessels had not been able to land their mails at Fishguard, and had carried them on to Liverpool, they had been seriously delayed there; for example, in the case of the "Lusitania," which vessel passed the Fastnet about 10.15 a.m. on the 6th March and was understood to have reached the Mersey about midnight, her mails were not landed for ninny hours after, and were alleged not to have reached London until 3.30 p.m. on the 7th March; and, in the circumstances, whether lie would make arrangements so that when the mails cannot be landed at Fishguard they shall be forwarded from Liverpool without delay after arrival there?
  Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: The mails conveyed by the Cunard packets arriving at Liverpool are landed and despatched to their destinations as expeditiously as possible in the varying circumstances. In the case of an arrival at night the mails are landed by tender when weather permits. On the occasion to which the hon. Member refers, the "Lusitania" came to anchor in the Mersey at 3.55 a.m. The mail consisted of over 3,400 bags, and the weather conditions were such that it was found impracticable to land the whole mail by tender. The packet came along-

  441
  side the landing stage at 6.40 a.m., but the congestion of traffic at the Riverside Station made it impossible to despatch the mail train to London until 11.40 a.m. I have since taken measures which will, I hope, prevent any future occurrence of the kind.
  Mr. FLAVIN: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Irish mails are carried to Fishguard and Liverpool, and is it not a fact that by that means they are delayed about tweny-four hours?
  Mr. HERBERT SAMUEL: There is, on the whole, no delay compared with the old system, under which the boats stopped at Queenstown.

  SMALL HOLDINGS ACT.—(MERIONETHSHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL SCHEME).
  Mr. HAYDN JONES: I beg to ask the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Agriculture a question of which I have given him private notice, whether it is the ease that the President of the Board, Earl Carrington, vetoed the compulsory order of the county council of Merionethshire for acquiring land for small holdings in that county?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: Yes, Sir.
  Mr. HAYDN JONES: Can the hon. Baronet give the House the reasons why the Board took that action?
  Sir E. STRACHEY: I think my hon. Friend will see lie must give me notice of that question. It would be impossible for me to give the reasons of my Noble Friend without notice.

  BILLS PRESENTED.
    MUSIC AND DANCING LICENCES BILL.
    "To amend the Law as regards Music and Dancing Licences in London and parts of certain adjoining counties," presented by Mr. HARRIS; to be read a second time upon Thursday, 11th May, and to be printed.
    INFANTICIDE BILL.
    "To alter the Law with regard to the sentence upon a mother convicted of the murder of her infant child," presented by Mr. PALMER; supported by Sir Frederick Low and Mr. Penry Williams; to be read a second time upon Wednesday next, and to be printed.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE.
The PRIME MINISTERmoved, "That the Proceedings on the Parliament Bill, if under discussion at Eleven o'clock this night, be not interrupted under the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)."
Question put.
The House divided: Ayes, 271; Noes, 169.

Division No. 218.]

AYES.

[3.50 p.m.

Abraham, William (Dublin Harbour)

Brunner, J. F. L

Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

Acland, Francis Dyke

Bryce, J. Annan

Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan)

Adamson, William

Burke, E. Haviland-

Dawes, James Arthur

Addison, Dr. C.

Burns, Rt. Hon. John

Delany, William

Adkins, W. Ryland D.

Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas

Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas

Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. R.

Buxton, Noel (Norfolk, N.)

Devlin, Joseph

Alden, Percy

Buxton, Rt. Hon. Sydney C. (Poplar)

Dewar, Sir J. A.

Allen, Arthur Acland (Dumbartonshire)

Byles, William Pollard

Dickinson, W. H.

Ashton, Thomas Gair

Carr-Gomm, H. W

Dillon, John

Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert Henry

Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich)

Doris, W.

Baker, H. T. (Accrington)

Cawley, Harold T. (Heywood)

Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)

Baker, Joseph Allen (Finsbury, E.)

Chancellor, H. G.

Duncan, J. Hastings (York, Otley)

Barlow, Sir John Emmett (Somerset)

Chapple, Dr. William Allen

Edwards, John Hugh (Glamorgan, Mid)

Barnes, G. N.

Clancy, John Joseph

Elverston, H.

Barran, Sir J. (Hawick)

Clough, William

Esmonde, Dr. John (Tipperary, N.)

Barran, Rowland Hirst (Leeds, N.)

Clynes, J. R.

Esmonde, Sir Thomas (Wexford, N.)

Barry, Redmond John (Tyrone, N.)

Collins, Godfrey P. (Greenock)

Falconer, J.

Barton, William

Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)

Fenwick, Charles

Beale, W. P.

Compton-Rickett, Rt. Hon. Sir J.

Ferens, T. R.

Beauchamp, Edward

Condon, Thomas Joseph

Ffrench, Peter

Beck, Arthur Cecil

Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

Field, William

Benn, W. W. (Tower Hamlets, St. Geo.)

Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

Fitzgibbon, John

Bentham, G J.

Cotton, William Francis

Flavin, Michael Joseph

Boland, John Pius

Cowan, W. H.

France, G. A.

Booth, Frederick Handel

Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)

Gelder, Sir William Alfred

Bowerman, Charles W.

Crawshay-Williams, Eliot

Gibson, Sir James P.

Boyle, D. (Mayo, N.)

Crooks, William

Gill, A. H.

Brace, William

Crumley, Patrick

Ginnell, L.

Brady, J. P.

Cullinan, J.

Goddard, Sir Daniel Ford

Brigg, Sir John

Davies, Ellis William (Ellion)

Goldstone, Frank

Brocklehurst, W. B.

Davies, Timothy (Lincs., Louth)

Greenwood, Granville G. (Peterborough)

Griffith, Ellis J. (Anglesey)

M'Laren, H. D. (Leics., Bosworth)

Richardson, Thomas (Whitehaven)

Guest, Hon. Frederick E. (Dorset, E.)

M'Laren, F. W. S. (Lincs., Spalding)

Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)

Gulland, John W.

M'Laren, Walter S. B. (Ches., Crewe)

Roberts, George H. (Norwich)

Hackett, John

M'Micking, Major Gilbert

Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradford)

Hall, Frederick (Normanton)

Manfield, Harry

Robinson, Sidney

Hancock, J. G

Marks, G. Croydon

Roche, Augustine (Louth)

Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis (Rossendale)

Martin, J.

Roche, John (Galway, E.)

Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose)

Mason, David M. (Coventry)

Rose, Sir Charles Day

Hardie, J. Keir

Masterman, C. F. G.

Rowlands, James

Harmsworth, R. L.

Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.)

Rowntree, Arnold

Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)

Meehan, Patrick A. (Queen's Co.)

Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter

Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, W.)

Menzies, Sir Walter

Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland)

Harwood, George

Millar, James Duncan

Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)

Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

Molloy, M.

Scanlan, Thomas

Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry

Molteno, Percy Alport

Scott, A. MacCallum (Glasgow, Bridgeton)

Haworth, Arthur R.

Money, L. G. Chiozza

Seely, Col. Rt. Hon. J. E. B.

Hayden, John Patrick

Mooney, J. J.

Sheehy, David

Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

Morrell, Philip

Sherwell, Arthur James

Henry, Sir Charles S.

Munro-Ferguson, Rt. Hon. R. C.

Simon, Sir John Allsebrook

Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor

Murray, Capt. Hon. Arthur C.

Smith, Albert (Lancs., Clitheroe)

Higham, John Sharp

Nannetti, Joseph P.

Smith, H. B. L. (Northampton)

Hinds, John

Needham, Christopher T.

Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)

Hodge, John

Neilson, Francis

Spicer, Sir Albert

Holt, Richard Durning

Nicholson, Charles N. (Doncaster)

Strachey, Sir Edward

Hope, John Deans (Haddington)

Nolan, Joseph

Strauss, Edward A. (Southwark, West)

Horne, Charles Silvester (Ipswich)

Norman, Sir Henry

Summers, James Woolley

Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

Norton, Capt. Cecil W.

Sutton, John E.

Hughes, Spencer Leigh

O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Taylor, John W. (Durham)

Hunter, W. (Govan)

O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

Tennant, Harold John

Isaacs, Sir Rufus Daniel

O'Doherty, Philip

Thomas, J. H. (Derby)

Jardine, Sir J. (Roxburgh)

O'Dowd, John

Toulmin, George

Johnson, William

Ogden, Fred

Trevelyan, Charles Philips

Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea)

O'Grady, James

Ure. Rt. Hon. Alexander

Jones, Edgar (Merthyr Tydvil)

O'Kelly, Edward P. (Wicklow, W.)

Verney, Sir Harry

Jones, Henry Haydn (Merioneth)

O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N.)

Walsh, Stephen (Lancs., Ince)

Jones, Leif Stratten (Notts, Rushcliffe)

O'Malley, William

Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)

Joyce, Michael

O'Neill, Dr. Charles (Armagh, S.)

Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton)

Kellaway, Frederick George

O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

Warner, Sir Thomas Courtenay

Kelly, Edward

O'Sullivan, Timothy

Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)

Kennedy, Vincent Paul

Palmer, Godfrey M.

Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan)

King, Joseph (Somerset, North)

Parker, James (Halifax)

Watt, Henry A.

Lambert, George (Devon, Molton)

Pearce, William (Limehouse)

Webb, H.

Lambert, Richard (Wilts, Cricklade)

Pease, Rt. Hon. Joseph A. (Rotherham)

Wedgwood, Josiah C.

Lardner, James Carrige Rushe

Phillips, John (Longford, S.)

White, Sir Luke (York, E.R.)

Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, West)

Pickersgill, Edward Hare

White, Patrick (Meath, North)

Lawson, Sir W. (Cumb'rl'nd,Cockerm'th)

Pointer, Joseph

Whitehouse, John Howard

Leach, Charles

Pollard, Sir George H.

Whittaker, Rt. Hon. Sir Thomas P.

Levy, Sir Maurice

Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H.

Whyte, Alexander F. (Perth)

Lewis, John Herbert

Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central)

Wiles, Thomas

Logan, John William

Price, Sir Robert J. (Norfolk, E.)

Wilkie, Alexander

Lundon, Thomas

Primrose, Hon. Nell James

Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough)

Lyell, Charles Henry

Pringle, William M. R.

Wilson, Hon. G. G. (Hull, West)

Lynch, Arthur Alfred

Radford, George Heynes

Wilson, J. W. (Worcestershire, N.)

Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)

Rainy, A. Rolland

Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Burghs)

Raphael, Sir Herbert H.

Wood, T. M'Kinnon (Glasgow)

Maclean, Donald

Rea, Rt. Hon. Russell (South Shields)

Young, Samuel (Cavan, E.)

Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.

Rea, Walter Russell (Scarborough)

MacNeill, John Gordan Swift

Reddy, Michael

MacVeagh, Jeremiah

Redmond, John E. (Waterford)

TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Master

M'Callum, John M.

Redmond, William (Clare)

of Elibank and Mr. Illingworth.

McKenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald

Rendall, Atheistan

NOES.

Acland-Hood, Rt. Hon. Sir Alex. F.

Beresford, Lord C.

Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte

Bigland, Alfred

Clay, Capt. H. H. Spender

Anstruther-Gray, Major William

Bird, Alfred

Clive, Percy Archer

Ashley, W. W.

Boscawen, Sackville T. Griffith-

Clyde, James Avon

Astor, Waldorf

Boyle, W. L. (Norfolk, Mid)

Cooper, Richard Ashmole

Bagot, Lieut.-Colonel J.

Boyton, James

Courthope, George Loyd

Baker, Sir R. L. (Dorset, N.)

Bridgeman, W. Clive

Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.)

Balcarres, Lord

Bull, Sir William James

Craig, Norman (Kent, Thanet)

Baldwin, Stanley

Burdett-Coutts, W.

Crichton-Stuart, Lord Ninian

Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (City, Lond.)

Burgoyne, A. H.

Croft, H. P.

Banbury, Sir Frederick George

Burn, Cal. C. R.

Dairymple, Viscount

Barnston, Harry

Butcher, J. G.

Dixon, C. H.

Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)

Cassel, Felix

Eyres-Monsell, B. M.

Bathurst, Hon. A. B. (Glouc., E.)

Castlereagh, Viscount

Falle, B. G.

Bathurst, Charles (Wilton)

Cator, John

Fell, Arthur

Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks

Cautley, H. S.

Fitzroy, Hon. E. A.

Beckett, Hon. W. Gervase

Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

Fleming, Valentine

Benn, Arthur Shirley (Plymouth)

Cecil, Lord Hugh (Oxford University)

Fletcher, John Samuel (Hampstead)

Bentinck, Lord H. Cavendish

Chaloner, Colonel R. G. W.

Forster, Henry William

444

445

Foster, Philip Staveley

Lansbury, George

Rice, Hon. W. F.

Frewen, Moreton

Larmor, Sir J

Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)

Gardner, Ernest

Law, Andrew Boner (Bootle, Lancs.)

Ronaldshay, Earl of

Gastrell, Major W. H.

Lawson, Hon. H. (T. H'mts., Mile End)

Samuel, Sir Harry (Norwood)

Gibbs, George Abraham

Locker-Lampson, G. (Sallsbury)

Sanders, Robert Arthur

Gilmour, Captain J.

Locker-Lampson, O. (Ramsey)

Sanderson, Lancelot

Goldsmith, Frank

Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R.

Sandys, G. J. (Somerset, Wells)

Goulding, Edward Alfred

Long, Rt. Hon. Walter

Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

Grant, J. A.

Lonsdale, John Brownlee

Stonier, Beville

Greene, W. R.

Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. A. (Hanover Sq.)

Stanley, Hon. G. F. (Preston)

Gretton, John

Lyttelton, Hon. J. C. (Droltwich)

Starkey, John R.

Guinness, Hon. W. E.

MacCaw, Wm J. MacGeagh

Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staffordshire)

Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne)

Mackinder, H. J.

Steel-Maltland, A. D.

Hambro, Angus Valdemar

M'Calmont, Colonel James

Stewart, Gershom

Hamersley, A. St. George

M'Mordie, Robert

Swift, Rigby

Hamilton, Lord C. J. (Kensington, S.)

Magnus, Sir Philip

Talbot, Lord E.

Hamilton, Marquess of (Londonderry)

Malcolm, Ian

Terrell, G. (Wilts, N.W.)

Hardy, Laurence

Mallaby-Deeley, Harry

Thompson, Robert (Belfast, North)

Harris, Henry Percy

Mason, James F. (Windsor)

Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Down, North)

Helmsley, Viscount

Middlemore, John Throgmorton

Thorne, William (West Ham)

Henderson, Major H. (Berks.)

Mildmay, Francis Bingham

Touche, George Alexander

Hill, Sir Clement L.

Mount, William Arthur

Tryon, Capt. George Clement

Hill-Wood, Samuel

Newdegate, F. A.

Valentia, Viscount

Hoare, S. J. G.

Newman, John R. P.

Walker, Col. William Hall

Hope, Harry (Bute)

Newton, Harry Kottingham

Wheler, Granville C. H.

Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield)

Nicholson, William G. (Petersfield)

White, Major G. D. (Lancs., Southport)

Horner, A. L.

Nield, Herbert

Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset, W.)

Houston, Robert Paterson

Norton-Griffiths, J. (Wednesbury)

Willoughby, Major Hon. Claud

Hunter, Sir C. R. (Bath)

O'Neill, Hon. A. E. B. (Antrim, Mid)

Wood, Hen. E. F. L. (Ripon)

Ingleby, Holcombe

Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A.

Wood, John (Stalybridge)

Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, East)

Paget, Almeric Hugh

Worthington-Evans, L.

Joynson-Hicks, William

Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)

Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

Kebty-Fletcher, J. R.

Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington)

Yate, Col. C. E.

Kerr-Smiley, Peter Kerr

Peel, Captain R. F. (Woodbridge)

Younger, George

Kerry, Earl of

Peel, Hon. W. R. W. (Taunton)

Kimber, Sir Henry

Perkins, Walter Frank

Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement

Pryce-Jones, Colonel E.

TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr.

Knight, Captain Eric Ayshford

Quilter, William Eley C.

Hunt and Mr. Meysey-Thompson.

Lane-Fox, G. R.

Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel