Sir HERBERT ROBERTSI beg to ask leave to introduce a Bill to amend The Sunday Closing (Wales) Act, 1881, and to snake further provision for the sale of intoxicating liquors in Wales and Mon-mouthshire.
If the House carries in its mind something of the history of this Bill and knows the strong feeling behind it, it will understand why we take every possible opportunity of bringing the facts on which it rests before the attention of the House. The purpose of the Bill is to deal with certain irregularities which have arisen in connection with the Sunday Closing (Wales) Act. The Amendments in the Bill deal with two main points of difficulty. The first is the so-called bonâ fide traveller difficulty, and the second the club question in so far as it relates to Sunday closing. The Bill seeks to deal with the traveller difficulty by providing that in the case of Wales, as in the case of Scotland, there should be a special Sunday licence. It proposes to deal with the club difficulty by empowering the licensing justices in Wales, if they think it necessary in the interest of public order, to prohibit the supply of liquor in clubs in their areas. The Bill has a long history in this House. The original Act was passed thirty years ago. I myself have introduced this Bill eighteen times. It has behind it, in the first place, the unanimous support of the Sunday Closing Committee 204 which reported in 1890, and it has also the recommendation of both the majority and the minority sections of the Licensing Commission of 1898. So far as the body of opinion in Wales is concerned I do not think any man will deny that it has been expressed in favour of this measure. Every county council in Wales has more than once petitioned in favour of this Bill, every considerable public authority in the country has also done so, and the great majority of the Parliamentary representatives from Wales for many years have been pledged to its provisions. I think this Bill is not only important in itself, but it is important as regards the necessity of doing something along the lines of the reasonable extension of local self-government which will enable local opinion in a matter of this kind to be made the law of the land. I have no doubt myself that, having regard to all these circumstances, the House will grant me leave to introduce the Bill.
§ Mr. BOTTOMLEYI am extremely reluctant to oppose any hon. Member who proposes to introduce a Bill, but I do submit that the introduction of this Bill under this procedure at this particular time is most inopportune. I would respectfully suggest to the hon. Member that, having introduced this Bill eighteen times, he ought to be satisfied with the reward which will come to him in due course for his devotion to the temperance cause. I submit that the measure is inopportune, because we are in the midst of discussing, or on the point of discussing, a Budget which proposes to re-enact burdens and restrictions on the licensed trade which were imposed a year ago with the express purpose of giving effect to the most drastic provisions of the defeated Licensing Bill. My next objection to the Bill is that it is really based upon principles of fanatical Sabbatarianism altogether out of date in the twentieth century. My third objection is that the proposals in the Bill, like all these proposals, are, in fact, causing exasperation to temperance men. The hon. Member talks of remedying certain difficulties in regard to Sunday drinking by the provisions of this measure, but it is inevitable that, if he seeks to put restrictions and limitations on the freedom of the people in his own district, they will naturally migrate to the nearest sphere of freedom. If he were to succeed in closing licensed houses in the way proposed, the people of Wales who wanted to get drink would go over the border, and then 205 we, the people of England, in whose name I may perhaps be permitted to speak on this occasion, would have inflicted upon us the residuum of the Welsh community. The hon. Member must be aware that if you try to keep people from drink by closing the houses in their own localities they will naturally go to places where they will get it. I think the procedure under which the hon. Member asks leave to introduce the Bill should only be used by private Members when they have been unsuccess
§ ful in the ballot and when they are justified in calling the attention of the House and the country to some measure of prominent and urgent importance. I would respectfully suggest that this is not the time for the introduction of the Bill, and, therefore, I object to its introduction.
§ Question put, "That leave be given to introduce the said Bill."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 165; Noes, 90.
207| Division No. 88.] | AYES. | [3.40 p.m. |
| Adkins, W. Ryland D. | Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil) | Rattan, Peter Wilson |
| Agnew, George William | Harvey, T. E. (Leeds, West) | Raphael, Herbert H. |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N.E.) | Redmond, William (Clare, E.) |
| Anderson, Andrew Macbeth | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Rees, Sir J. D. |
| Armitage, Robert | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Richards, Thomas |
| Baker, Harold T. (Accrington) | Havelock-Allan, Sir Henry | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Barlow, Sir John Emmott | Hayward, Evan | Robertson, John M. (Tyneside) |
| Barran, Sir John N. (Hawick B.) | Healy, Timothy Michael | Robinson, Sidney |
| Benn, W. (Tower Hamlets, S. Gee) | Helme, Norval Watson | Roch, Walter F. (Pembroke) |
| Bentham, George Jackson | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Boland, John Plus | Herbert, Col. Sir Ivor (Mon. S.) | Rowntree, Arnold |
| Bowles, Thomas Gibson | Higham, John Sharp | Runciman, Rt. Hon. Walter |
| Brigg, Sir J. | Hindle, Frederick George | Samuel, Rt. Hon. H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Holt, Richard Durning | Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees) |
| Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) | Seddon, James A. |
| Buxton, C. R. (Devon, Mid.) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Shackleton, David James |
| Buxton, Noel (Norfolk, North) | Hudson, Walter | Shortt, Edward |
| Byles, William Pollard | Jones, Edgar R. (Merthyr Tidvil) | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) |
| Cawley, Sir Frederick (Prestwich) | Layland-Barratt, Sir Francis | Snowden, Philip |
| Chancellor, Henry George | Leach, Charles | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Channing, Sir Francis Allston | Lehmann, Rudolf C. | Soares, Ernest Joseph |
| Chapple, Dr. William Allen | Lewis, John Herbert | Summers, James Woolley |
| Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. | Llewolyn, Venables | Sutton, John E. |
| Clough, William | London, Thomas | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Clynes, John R. | Lyell, Charles Henry | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) |
| Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Thomas, James Henry (Derby) |
| Collins, Sir Wm. J. (St. Pancras, W.) | Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Burghs) | Thompson, Robert (Belfast, North) |
| Compton-Rickett, Sir J. | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift | Thorne, G. R. (Wolverhampton) |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Toulmin, George |
| Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | M'Callum, John M. | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Cowan, William Henry | M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald | Ure, Rt. Hon. Alexander |
| Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth) | M'Laren, F. W. S. (Linc., Spalding) | Verney, Frederic William |
| Crawshay-Williams, Eliot | M'Laren, Walter S. B. (Ches., Crewe) | Vivian, Henry |
| Crosfield, Arthur H. | Manfield, Harry | Walters, John Tudor |
| Crossley, Sir William J. | Meagher, Michael | Walton, Sir Joseph |
| Davies, David (Montgomery Co.) | Middlebrook, William | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton) |
| Davies, Sir W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Millar, James Duncan | Wardle, George J. |
| Denman, Hon. Richard Douglas | Molteno, Percy Alpert | Wason, Rt. Hon. E. (Clackmannan) |
| Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.) | Mond, Sir Alfred | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward | Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall) | Waterlow, David Sydney |
| Esslemont, George Birnie | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
| Falconer, James | Munro, Robert | White, J. Dundas (Dumbartonshire) |
| Fenwick, Charles | Murray, Capt. Hon. Arthur C. | White, Sir Luke (Yorks, E.R.) |
| Ferens, Thomas Robinson | Muspratt, Max | Whitehouse, John Howard |
| France, Gerald Ashburner | Neilson, Francis | Whyte, Alexander F. (Perth) |
| Gelder, Sir William Alfred | Nicholson, Charles N. (Doncaster) | Williams, Penry (Middlesbrough) |
| George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd | Norton, Capt. Cecil W. | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
| Gibbins, F. W. | Ogden, Fred | Winfrey, Richard |
| Gill, Alfred Henry | Parker, James (Halifax) | Wing, Thomas |
| Ginnell, Laurence | Pearson, Weetman H. M. | Wood, T. M'Kinnon (Glasgow) |
| Glover, Thomas | Pickersgill, Edward Hare | Young, William (Perth, East) |
| Guest, Major | Pointer, Joseph | Yoxall, Sir James Henry |
| Gulland, John William | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. | |
| Gwynn, Stephen Lucius (Galway) | Priestley, Sir W. E. B. (Bradford, E.) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Sir |
| Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Pringle, William M. R. | Herbert Roberts and Sir D. Brynmor |
| Harcourt, Rt. Hon. L. (Rossendale) | Radford, George Heynes | Jones. |
| Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Hood. Rt. Hon. Sir Alex. F. | Baird, John Lawrence | Boyle, W. Lewis (Norfolk. Mid) |
| Adam, Major William A | Baker, Sir Randolf L. (Dorset, N.) | Brackenbury, Henry Langton |
| Arbuthnot, Gerald A. | Baring, Captain Hon. Guy Victor | Brassey, H. L. C. (Northants, N.) |
| Attenborough Walter Annis | Barnston, Harry | Brassey, Capt. R. (Oxon, Banbury) |
| Bagot, Colonel Joscellne | Beach, Hon. Michael Hugh Hicks | Bridgeman, William Clive |
| Brotherton, Edward Allen | Hickman, Colonel Thomas E. | Peel, Capt. R. F. (Woodbridge) |
| Burgoyne, Alan Hughes | Hill, Sir Clement L. (Shrewsbury) | Peto, Basil Edward |
| Calley, Col. Thomas C. P. | Hills, John Walter (Durham) | Proby, Col. Douglas James |
| Campion, W. R. | Hope, Harry (Bute) | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Carlile, Edward Hildred | Hope, James Fitzalan (Sheffield) | Ridley, Samuel Forde |
| Cooper, Capt. Bryan R. (Dublin, S.) | Jackson, John A. (Whitehaven) | Roberts, George H. (Norwich) |
| Craik, Sir Henry | Jardine, Ernest (Somerset, East) | Ronaldshay, Earl of |
| Croft, Henry Page | Kinloch-Cooke, Sir Clement | Royds, Edmund |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Kirkwood, John H. M. | Sanders, Robert Arthur |
| Eyres-Monsell, Bolton M. | Knight, Capt. Eric Ayshford | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Faber, George D. (Clapham) | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Stanler, Beville |
| Falle, Bertram Godfrey | Lloyd, George Ambrose | Stewart, Gershom (Ches., Wirral) |
| Fell, Arthur | Locker-Lampson, G. (Salisbury) | Sykes, Alan John |
| Fletcher, John Samuel | Lockwood, Rt. Hon. Lt.-Col. A. R. | Talbot, Lord Edmund |
| Gibbs, George Abraham | Lowe, Sir F. W. (Birm., Edgbaston) | Thorne, William (West Ham) |
| Gilmour, Captain John | Mallaby-Deeley, Harry | Tryon, Capt. George Clement |
| Goldsmith, Frank | Mason, James F. | Ward, A. S. (Herts, Watford) |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | Watt, Henry A. |
| Greene, Walter Raymond | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | Wheler, Granville C. H. |
| Gwynne, R. S. (Sussex, Eastbourne) | Middlemore, John Throgmorton | White, Major G. D. (Lanc., Southport) |
| Hall, D. B. (Isle of Wight) | Mills, Hon. Charles Thomas | Willoughby, Major Hon. Claude |
| Hambro, Angus Valdemar | Morrison-Bell, Major A. C. | Wood, Hen. E. F. L. (Yorks, Ripon) |
| Hamersley, Alfred St. George | Mount, William Arthur | Worthington-Evans, L. |
| Helmsley, Viscount | Newdegate, F. A. | |
| Henderson, H. G. H. (Berkshire) | Orde-Powlett, Hon. W. G. A. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. |
| Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T | Ormsby-Gore, Hon. William | Bottomley and Earl Winterton. |
§ Bill ordered to be brought in by Sir Herbert Roberts, Sir Alfred Thomas, Mr. Robinson, Mr. Ellis Davies, and Mr. Richards. Presented accordingly, and read the first time; to be read a second time upon Tuesday, 26th July.