§ All costs, charges, and expenses attending the preparation obtaining and passing this Act and incidental thereto shall be paid by the Town Council out of rates, revenues, or assessments authorised by the Burgh Police Acts.
§ Mr. MORTON moved, after the word "thereto" to insert the words "up to, but not exceeding the sum of six hundred pounds sterling." I am sorry to differ from the Chairman, but this is not entirely a new thing to compel the promoters to pay the expenses when they have done wrong in promoting a Bill. The Metropolitan Board of Works in 1878 brought in a Bill in connection with the water supply. They were surcharged, but this House afterwards, by resolution, allowed them to go free. In many cases in which Bills were promoted of this doubtful character a guarantee fund was established so as to clear them in case they did not pass the Bills as they intended. It is time this House intervened and said municipal councils should not squander the money of the ratepayers.
§ Mr. WATTI beg to second the Amendment. Town councils ought in some way to be limited in the manner in which they come to the House with Bills. This was a rash and ill-considered scheme, and it is right that town councils should receive some warning that if they launch out in such schemes as this the House of Commons will limit the expenses.
§ The CHAIRMANWhen I said that this was unprecedented, I meant that it was unprecedented in regard to a municipal corporation. I am informed that that is perfectly correct.
§ Mr. NORMAN LAMONTI desire, in a few words, to ask the House to reject the Amendment. It is within the knowledge of the House that these costs are regulated by a Parliamentary scale, and that they cannot exceed the limit imposed by that scale. I am not concerned to deny that the costs are likely to be disproportionate to what will be gained by the Bill. After all that is not the fault of the promoters. As originally introduced in another place, the Bill contained the clauses to which the Chairman of Ways and Means has alluded. These clauses were cut out in another place, and for my own part I deeply regret it. I think the House will remember that in a Debate 2077 which took place here some time ago, when a Bill affecting the burgh of Milport was under consideration, it was pointed out that it was necessary for certain Clyde ports to defend themselves against the railway monopoly, either by hiring steamers or running steamers of their own. The hon. Member for Sutherland (Mr. Morton) desires this House to deprive the burgh of Dunoon of the costs, or a portion of them. Surely it is bad enough for the burgh to have the Bill mutilated as it has been without having their finances thrown into absolute chaos and confusion. The Bill has engaged the attention of Committees of both Houses of Parliament, and I desire the House to support those Committees, and not to be led astray by the hon. Member for Sutherland, who now asks us to reverse their decision.
§ Mr. T. M. HEALYThe hon. Member for Sutherland (Mr. Morton) never rises in this House without doing a public service, and although I do not intend to support him, I wish to say that I think he has done a public service by bringing this matter before the House. The Chairman of Ways and Means has stated that it was owing to the action of himself and the Lords' Chairman that this Bill was not sent down as a Scottish Bill. I think the Town
§ Council might fairly have considered that it would be heard cheaply and expeditiously in Glasgow, and therefore it was not such an ambitious enterprise to promote the Bill. It was not their fault that it was sent to the House of Lords, where the fees are appalling. I always considered that Irish Bills should begin in the House of Commons on the ground that the fees in the House of Lords are simply a facer. I am quite satisfied that these gentlemen in Dunoon thought that this Bill would have gone to Glasgow, and they never dreamt for a moment that the expenses of the House of Lords would be put upon them. Therefore, the whole result, as far as I can see, is pure misfortune, and it would be most unfair to limit the costs in the way suggested. But for the fact that the Chairman of Ways and Means has explained how this thing came to be incurred, and that the Dunoon people cannot be considered in any way responsible for this incurring of costs, I should have much pleasure in supporting the hon. Member for Sutherland, whose services in the cause of economy should never be forgotten.
§ Question put, "That those words be there inserted."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 21; Noes, 72.
2077| Division No. 516.] | AYES. | [12.20 a.m. |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Roche, John (Galway, East) |
| Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Hogan, Michael | Seddon, J. |
| Barnes, G. N. | Kilbride, Denis | Sutherland, J. E. |
| Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grinstead) | Lundon, T. | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Cullinan, J. | Macpherson, J. T. | Wilkie, Alexander |
| Duffy, William J. | Meehan, Francis E. (Leitrim, N.) | |
| Esslemont, George Birnie | Worrell, Philip | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Mr. A. C. Morton and Mr. Watt. |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Reddy, M. |
| NOES. | ||
| Balcarres, Lord | Gill, A. H. | Mooney, J. J. |
| Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.) | Gladstone, Rt. Hon. Herbert John | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Bowerman, C. W. | Glendinning, R. G. | Nicholls, George |
| Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Gulland, John W. | Norton, Captain Cecil William |
| Bryce, J. Annan | Gwynn, Stephen Lucius | Nugent, Sir Walter Richard |
| Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Hamilton, Marquess of | Partington, Oswald |
| Carille, E. Hildred | Hancock, J. G. | Pickersgill, Edward Hare |
| Causton, Rt. Hon. Richard Knight | Harcourt, Robert V. (Montrose) | Ponsonby, Arthur A. W. H. |
| Clough, William | Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.) | Radford, G. H. |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Hazleton, Richard | Rea, Rt. Hon. W. R. (Scarborough) |
| Crossley, William J. | Healy, Maurice (Cork) | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) |
| Dobson, Thomas W. | Healy, Timothy Michael | Russell, Rt. Hon. T. W. |
| Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness) | Henry, Charles S. | Samuel, Rt. Hon H. L. (Cleveland) |
| Duncan, J. Hastings (York, Otley) | Horniman, Emslie John | Scanlan, Thomas |
| Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Scarisbrick, Sir T. T. L. |
| Edwards, Sir Francis (Radnor) | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire) | Shackleton, David James |
| Elibank, Master of | Joyce, Michael | Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon) |
| Emmott, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Kelley, George D. | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Lanark) |
| Essex, R. W. | Lambert, George | Valentia, Viscount |
| Evans, Sir S. T. | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Waring, Walter |
| Everett, R. Lacey | Lewis, John Herbert | Wiles, Thomas |
| Falconer, J. | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
| Ferens, T. R. | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | |
| Forstor, Henry William | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Lament and Mr. Cleland. |
| Fuller, John Michael F. | M'Callum, John M. |