ARMY (ANNUAL) BILL.

HC Deb 21 March 1907 vol 171 cc1005-203

Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

[Mr. Emmott (Oldham) in the Chair.]

Clause 1:—

MR. VICTOR CAVENDISH (Derbyshire, W.)

hoped that it was not the intention of the Government to proceed with this important measure at that time of night. They had been occupied for several hours discussing a Bill which none of them had expected would be taken, and he hoped they would not be asked to embark upon a discussion of the Army (Annual) Bill to which the Secretary of State for War had himself put down two Amendments, and in regard to which he had issued two separate Memoranda, one of which appeared that afternoon for the first time. He was told that that Memorandum did not tally with the Bill, and he should think, having regard to the importance of the Bill and to the interest taken in it on both sides, the Government would not attempt to pass the measure at that hour. It was a Bill which had always taken a considerable amount of time to discuss, and he suggested that the Government should take the course which was most convenient to the House at large and adjourn the discussion. He moved that progress be reported.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress; and ask leave to sit again."—(Mr. Victor Cavendish.)

MR. HALDANE

We desire to take the course which is most convenient to the House of Commons generally, and that is to finish this Committee at the sitting.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR (Sussex, Horssham)

said that after listening to the very courteous speech of the right hon. Gentleman he proposed to offer only a few words on this Motion. [Laughter.] Some hon. Members appeared to treat the Bill in a jesting manner. [An Hon. Member: You are doing that.] On the contrary he regarded the Bill as a very serious one, and if hon. Members were aware of the way in which it affected every officer and man in the Army, the Yeomanry, and the Volunteers, they would think so too. [Laughter.] Some hon Members seemed to spend more time in the refreshment room than in the House.

*THE CHAIRMAN

The noble Lord is not entitled to make observations of that kind. He must confine himself to the Motion before the House.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

said he intended no reflection upon hon. Members by using the words "refreshment rooms," and if the Chairman would allow him he would substitute the words "smoking room." All he meant to say was that this Bill was not a jesting matter.

*THE CHAIRMAN

The noble Lord must confine his observations to the Motion.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

said that one of the reasons why he supported the Motion was that this being a very important Bill affecting the whole of the British Army, it should not be discussed at that hour of the morning. He hoped, having regard to the fact that the House had got through a good deal of business, and that the right hon. Gentleman had seven pages of Amendments to the Bill, which had only recently been circulated, the Government would reconsider their decision, and allow the Bill to be discussed at amore reasonable hour.

SIR A. ACLAND-HOOD

pointed out that whilst the Secretary of State for War was not responsible for the convenience of Members of the House he was responsible for the discipline of the Army. When a Minister in the position of the right hon. Gentleman got up and said he was consulting the convenience of the House of Commons, and not the discipline of the Army, that was a very strong statement to make. The Committee were entitled on a Bill of this kind, which in many respects was practically a new measure, and the private soldiers of the country were entitled, to more than the single sentence with which the right hon. Gentleman had dismissed them.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY (Yorkshire, N.R., Thirsk)

supported the Motion to report progress, because in his opinion it was a serious thing for the Committee to be asked to embark on the discussion of so important a Bill at that hour in the morning. It was perfectly obvious that if the Government had not chosen to take the discussion on the Consolidated Fund Bill the discussion on this Bill would have been very far advanced by then. if not almost finished. The action of the Government in proposing to take the Bill at a time when the Committee, if not jaded, was in no humour to deal with a large amount of new matter, such as was contained in this Bill, showed that they were treating neither the House, the Bill nor the Army seriously. Had the Bill come up in the old hardy annual shape, there might have been some excuse for the course the Government had adopted, but that was not the case. The Bill contained a considerable amount of new matter, and it was absurd that the Committee should be asked to go into all the details of the complex Amendments to the Bill.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said that last year when this Bill was under discussion the right hon. Gentleman appealed to the House to give him a chance, as he was newly in office. That Bill was criticised, and the right hon. Gentleman met the criticisms very well, and gave a good many pledges as to what he would do this year. A large number of those pledges had been redeemed, and, as a result, a number of Amendments were made in this Bill. But it was important that the Bill should be considered, because there were more matters to discuss than had appeared in the Army (Annual) Bill for twenty years. Was it right, under these circumstances, that it should be discussed so early in the morning? Even taking the convenience to Members for granted, there was something more to consider, and that was the life and liberty of the Army. Having regard to the circumstances he thought it would be reasonable on the part of the Government to accept the Motion and make arrangements to deal with the Committee stage of the Bill at a more reasonable hour.

MR. ASHLEY (Lancashire, Blackpool)

reminded the right hon. Gentleman that very far reaching changes were proposed in the Bill. For the first time in military history power was given to try a soldier by Court-martial, or by his commanding officer, for any loss sustained by negligence or some error on his part. On active service he was to be confined for aggravated drunkenness. To discuss such important points at half-past two in the morning was not treating his Majesty's Army in the way in which it ought to be treated by the House of Commons.

MR. CLAUDE HAY (Shoreditch, Hoxton)

said the Secretary of State for War had not given them an opportunity of studying the Memorandum, which was absolutely necessary to a proper understanding of the Bill in Committee. If the discussion was to be properly conducted, Members should be thoroughly cognisant of all the intricate matters raised by the various clauses of the Bill. Might he remind the right hon. Gentleman also that something sinister occurred in connection with this famous Memorandum, which, he thought, reached hon. Members about four o'clock that afternoon? It reached the Vote Office some days ago, and he would like to know why it was not circulated.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said that had nothing to do with the Motion before the House.

MR. CLAUDE HAY

said he was trying to show that the right hon. Gentleman, who alleged that he had consulted the convenience of the House by taking the Committee stage that night, had not consulted their convenience, because the document necessary to the proper discussion of the Bill in Committee had not been circulated.

*THE CHAIRMAN

What was done with the Memorandum in the Vote Office has nothing to do with the Motion before the House.

MR. CLAUDE HAY

said he was trying to show that the allegation of the right hon. Gentleman that he had consulted the convenience of the House was not borne out by his action, because it was necessary, if the convenience of the House was to be consulted, that the Paper to which he referred should have been earlier in the hands of hon. Members. Was it not a fact that in connection with the discussions in Committee a certain Memorandum had been practically suppressed?

*THE CHAIRMAN

I have ruled that out of order.

MR. CLAUDE HAY

said he would go on to another point in connection with the matter. The right hon. Baronet the Member for the Forest of Dean had raised a point of the highest importance when the Bill was before the House on Monday last, and the Secretary for War had promised that it should be looked into. But in the document before the Committee there was nothing to show that he had looked into the question or to indicate what solution he offered on the point raised by the right hon. Baronet. He complained that the right hon. Gentleman should come down to the House at that time of the morning, pretending that the House, by going into Committee, would be able to do its duty by the armed forces of the Crown. He trusted, therefore, that the right hon. Gentleman would reconsider his decision. If he persisted in proceeding, he was afraid that they would have a very long sitting.

MR. STANLEY WILSON (Yorkshire, E.R., Holderness)

said they were not accustomed to discourtesy from the Minister for War; and he was extremely sorry that the right hon. Gentleman should have adopted such a tone towards the Committee in the half-dozen words which he had addressed to them. He had always looked upon the right hon. Gentleman as one of the most courteous Members of the Government, and he made his humble protest against the tone which he had adopted towards them, because they held that they had been extremely badly treated by the Government. They had just closured a measure which gave private Members an opportunity of raising important subjects.

*MR. CHAIRMAN

The hon. Gentleman is not allowed to reflect on the action of the House in applying the closure. It is quite out of order.

MR. STANLEY WILSON

said it was a great hardship that they should be asked, at nearly a quarter to three o'clock in the morning, to discuss this important Measure, which other Members had shown to be a genuinely important Bill containing a lot of new matter. Had the Government acted according to their promise they would have got the measure by that time, and it would not have been necessary to continue that discussion until break. fasttime. He was afraid that the War Minister had been taking the advice of the Patronage Secretary, who liked bullying the House on these occasions. [Cries of "Order," and "Withdraw."]

*MR. CHAIRMAN

That is an offensive word to use.

MR. STANLEY WILSON

said he would withdraw the word "bullying" and substitute the word "worrying." The Patronage Secretary once told them that they were obliged to sit because he had pledged himself to the Prime Minister that a certain measure should be got through. Was he pledged to the Prime Minister once more to get the Army Annual Bill through Committee, and were they to wait until the right hon. Gentleman arrived at nine o'clock in the morning, as he did on a former occasion after an all night sitting?

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

asked if the Patronage Secretary was going to give them any reason why he refused to allow them to report progress. [An

HON MEMBER

Because you are wasting time.] That was not a proper hour at which to discuss new matters. They intended to discuss this Bill as fully as possible in order that the quantity of discussion might make up for its lack of quality. He really thought the Patronage. Secretary was exercising his powers of worrying the House to a considerable extent when he refused to explain why it was necessary to force that Bill through in that way. Already that evening an important measure had been forced through by the closure.

CAPTAIN CRAIG

said that as the Government did not appear to recognise the desirability of reporting progress it had become his painful duty to add to the very cogent arguments which had already been set forth as to why they should report progress. From eleven to two o'clock they had been discussing a very important measure, and it was not possible at that late hour to give the Army (Annual) Bill that careful attention and critical analysis which a Bill of such importance demanded. He had not had time properly to study the Bill himself or the important Memorandum issued with it. There was absolutely no reason why the Bill should be forced through that night. He appealed to the Minister in charge of the Bill and the Patronage Secretary to consider whether, after last year's experience, it would be wise in the interests of the Army and of the House to force the Bill through at a time when it was not possible to subject it to proper scrutiny and criticism. The Procedure Rules and the Consolidated Fund Bill had been dealt with at that sitting, and surely that was a good day's work.

MR. COURTHOPE

said they were being asked to make radical changes in the form of the Army (Annual) Act. They were changing the specified times when the Act should come into force in the British Colonies, and that was a matter which could not be properly discussed at that hour of the morning. Then there was an entirely different type of punishment being established, which was quite new, and, in the interests of justice to the soldier, they ought to have a full opportunity of discussing it.

SIR F. BANBURY

hoped the right hon. Gentleman would consider the course he was going to take. He had introduced a new scheme, and the alterations proposed by the Bill were caused by that scheme. Hon. Members on that side of the House had received the scheme in a patriotic way, and they were anxious to give it every consideration. The Army (Annual) Bill did not need to be passed before the 30th of April, and he appealed to the right hon. Gentleman to give a reasonable time for its consideration. There was a proposal in the Bill in regard to the billeting of soliders. That was a matter which would involve a certain burden on the rates.

*THE CHAIRMAN

The hon. Member is discussing the Bill. That is not in order on this Motion. I think I must also remind the hon. Gentleman of the Standing Order in regard to repetition.

SIR F. BANBURY

said he did not wish either to discuss the Bill or to repeat himself. With all deference he submitted that he had not repeated himself.

THE CHAIRMAN

Let me remind the hon. Baronet that the Standing Order also refers to the repetition of what has been said by other people.

MR. J. MACVEAGH (Down, S.)

pointed out that the hon. Gentleman was not in the House when others were making their speeches.

SIR F. BANBURY

said that owing to the lateness of the hour he was not in the House.

*THE CHAIRMAN

That has not the least connection with the matter. The hon. Member is much more likely to be guilty of repetition if he was not in the House.

SIR F. BANBURY

said it was not through any fault of his that he was absent. The right hon. Gentleman would be well advised to take the management of the business of the House into his own hand, as had always been done by the senior Cabinet Minister present.

MR. LANE-FOX

strongly supported the Motion to report progress, on the ground that hon. Members had not had time to consider the details of the Memoranda which the Secretary of State for War had placed in their hands that afternoon and the Bill. That was not an hour when they could, with any prospect of credit to themselves continue the discussion.

Mr. HALDANE

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 196, Noes, 55. (Division List No. 51.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Elibank, Master of	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Essex, R. W.	M'Micking, Major G.
Alden, Percy	Everett, R. Lacey	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Alien, A. Acland (Christchurch	Fenwick, Charles	Markham, Arthur Basil
Allen, Charies P. (Stroud)	Ferens, T. R.	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	F french, Peter	Meehan, Patrick A.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Menzies, Walter
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Fuller, John Michael F.	Mond, A.
Barnard, E. B.	Fullerton, Hugh	Montagu, E. S.
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Gill, A. H.	Mooney, J. J.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herbert John	Morse, L. L.
Barry, Redmond J(Tyrone, N.)	Glover, Thomas	Murphy, John
Beale, W. P.	Goddard, Daniel Ford	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Beauchamp, E.	Gooch, George Peabody	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Bellairs, Carlyon	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	O'Brien, Kendal (T'perary Mid
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Gulland, John W.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Bennett, E. N.	Gwynn, Stephen Lucius	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Berridge, T. H. D.	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	O'Dowd, John
Boland, John	Hall, Frederick	O'Grady, J.
Bowerman, C. W.	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	O'Shee, James John
Bramsdon, T. A.	Harvey, W.E(Derbyshire, N. E.	Parker, James (Halifax)
Branch, James	Hayden, John Patrick	Partington, Oswald
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Paul, Herbert
Brodie, H. C.	Hemmerde, Edward George	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)
Brooke, Stopford	Henry, Charles S.	Pearson, W.H.M. (Suffolk, Eye
Bryce, J. Annan	Herbert, Colonel Ivor(Mon., S.)	Pirie, Duncan V.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Higham, John Sharp	Pollard, Dr.
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Hobart, Sir Robert	Power, Patrick Joseph
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Hogan, Michael	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)
Byles, William Pollard	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	Priestley, W. E. B. (Bradford)
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Hudson, Walter	Radford, G. H.
Chance, Frederick William	Hyde, Clarendon	Raphael, Herbert. H.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Jardine, Sir J.	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'
Clarke, C. Goddard	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Cleland, J. W.	Jones, William (Carnorvonshire	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Clough, William	Jowett, F. W.	Richardson, A.
Clynes, J. R.	Kearley, Hudson E.	Ridsdale, E. A.
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Kilbride, Denis	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Collins, Sir Wm. J (S.Pancras, W	King Alfred John(Knutsford)	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Cooper, G.	Laidlaw, Robert	Roberts, John H. (Denbighs)
Corbett,C.H(Sussex, E Grinst'd	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Robinson, S.
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Lambert, George	Robson, Sir William Snowdon
Cory, Clifford John	Lamont, Norman	Rose, Charles Day
Cowan, W. H.	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Rowlands, J.
Cox, Harold	Lehmann, R. C.	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Lever, A Levy(Essex, Harwich)	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Crean, Eugene	Levy, Maurice	Scott, A.H(Ashtonunder Lyne)
Crosfield, A. H.	Lewis, John Herbert	Seely, Major J. B.
Dalziel, James Henry	Lough, Thomas	Shackleton, David James
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Lupton, Arnold	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)	Lyell, Charles Henry	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Maclean, Donald	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.
Dunne, Major E.Martin(Walsall	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down,	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	MacVeigh, Charles(Donegal, E.)	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Summerbell, T.
Sutherland, J. E.	Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)	White, John Henry (Halifax)
Taylor, John W. (Durham)	Wardle, George J.	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	Waring, Walter	Wills, Arthur Walters
Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr	Wason, John C. (Orkney)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Tomkinson, James	Waterlow, D. S.	Winfrey, R.
Toulmin, George	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Villiers, Ernest Amherst	White, George (Norfolk)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease
Wadsworth, J.	White Luke (York, E. R.)
Walsh, Stephen	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Walters, John Tudor	Whitehead, Rowland
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)
Ashley, W. W.	Craig, Captain Jas. (Down, E.)	Nield, Herbert
Balcarres, Lord	Cross, Alexander	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Dalrymple, Viscount	Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Fell, Arthur	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Forster, Henry William	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley George D.
Bowles, G. Stewart	Haddock, George R.	Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hamilton, Marquess of	Starkey, John R.
Bull, Sir William James	Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'd	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Tumour, Viscount
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F. W. F.(BuryS. Edm'ds	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Cave, George	Hills, J. W.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Hunt, Rowland	Younger, George
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Lane-Fox, G. R.
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos, H.A. E.	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Corbett T. L. (Down, North)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Courthope, G. Loyd	Morpeth, Viscount

Question put accordingly, "That the Chairman do report progress; and ask leave to sit again."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 54; Noes, 195. (Division List No. 52.)

AYES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.)	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield
Ashley, W.W.	Craig, Captain James (Down, E	Nield, Herbert
Balcarres, Lord	Cross, Alexander	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Dalrymple, Viscount	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Fell, Arthur	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Finch, Rt, Hon. George H.	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley George D
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Forster, Henry William	Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Bowles, G. Stewart	Haddock, George R.	Starkey, John R.
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hamilton, Marquess of	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bull, Sir William James	Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)	Turnour, Viscount
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Carlile, E. Hildred	Hemsley, Viscount	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F.W.F (Bury S. Edm'ds)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.
Cave, George	Hills, J. W.	Younger, George
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W	Hunt, Rowland
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.	Lane-Fox, G. R.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H.A. E.	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Courthope, G. Loyd	Morpeth, Viscount
NOES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Bellairs, Carlyon
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Barnard, E. B.	Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo
Alden, Percy	Barran, Rowland Hirst	Bennett, E. N.
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Barry, E. (Cork, S.	Berridge, T. H. D.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Barry, Redmond J (Tyrone, N.)	Boland, John
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Beale, W. P.	Bowerman, C. W.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight	Beauchamp, E.	Bramsdon, T. A.
Branch, James	Henry, Charles S.	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.	Priestley, W.E.B. (Bradford, E.
Brodie, H. C.	Higham, John Sharp	Radford, G. H.
Brooke, Stopford	Hobart, Sir Robert	Raphael, Herbert H.
Bryce, J. Annan	Hogan, Michael	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Burns, Rt. Hn. John	Hudson, Walter	Richards, T. F. (Wolver'mpt'n
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Hyde, Clarendon	Richardson, A.
Byles, William Pollard	Jardine, Sir J.	Ridsdale, E. A.
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Chance, Frederick William	Jones, William (Carnarvon-sh.	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Jowett, F. W.	Roberts, John H. (Denbighs)
Clarke, C. Goddard	Kearley, Hudson E.	Robinson, S.
Cleland, J. W.	Kennedy, Vincent Paul	Robson, Sir William Snowdon
Clough, William	Kilbride, Denis	Rose, Charles Day
Clynes, J. R.	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Rowland, J.
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Laidlaw, Robert	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S.Pancras	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Cooper, G. J.	Lambert, George	Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne)
Corbett, C.H. Sussex E. Grinst'd.	Lamont, Norman	Seely, Major J. B.
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.	Shackleton, David James
Cory, Clifford John	Lehmann, R. C.	Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick B.)
Cowan, W. H.	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Cox, Harold	Levy, Maurice	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Lewis, John Herbert	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Crean, Eugene	Lough, Thomas	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.
Crosfield, A. H.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.
Dalziel, James Henry	Lyell, Charles Henry	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Summerbell, T.
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Maclean, Donald	Sutherland, J. E.
Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald	Tomkinson, James
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	M'Micking, Major G.	Toulmin, George
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Elibank, Master of	Markham, Arthur Basil	Wadsworth, J.
Essex, R. W.	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)	Walsh, Stephen
Everett, R. Lacey	Meehan, Patrick A.	Walters, John Tudor
Fenwick, Charles	Menzies, Walter	Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)
Ferens, T. R.	Mond, A.	Wardle, George J.
F french, Peter	Montague, E. S.	Waring, Walter
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Mooney, J. J.	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Fuller, John Michael F.	Morse, L. L.	Waterlow, D. S.
Fullerton, Hugh	Murphy, John	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Gill, A. H.	Norton, Captain Cecil William	White, George (Norfolk)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert J.	Nussey, Thomas Willans	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Glover, Thomas	O'Brien, Kendall(Tipperry Mid.	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Goddard, Daniel Ford	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Whitehead, Rowland
Gooch, George Peabody	O'Dowd, John	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	O'Grady, J.	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarthen
Gulland, John W.	O'Shee, James John	Wills, Arthur Walters
Gwynn, Stephen Lucius	Parker, James (Halifax)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Haldane, Rt. Hn. Richard B.	Partington, Oswald	Winfrey, R.
Hall, Frederick	Paul, Herbert
Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Harvey, W.E. (Derbyshire, N.E.	Pearson, W.H.M. (Suffolk, Eye)	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Hayden, John Patrick	Pirie, Duncan V.
Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Pollard, Dr.
Hemmerde, Edward George	Power, Patrick Joseph

Question put, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 190; Noes, 53. (Division List No. 53.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Barry, E. (Cork, S.)
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.
Alden, Percy	Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Beale, W. P.
Allen, A. Acland(Christchurch)	Barnard, E. B.	Beauchamp, E.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Barran, Rowland Hirst	Bellairs, Carlyon
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Hayden, John Patrick	Pollard, Dr.
Bennett, E. N.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Power, Patrick Joseph
Bowerman, C. W.	Hemmerde, Edward George	Price, C.E (Edinburgh, Central)
Bramsdon, T. A.	Henry, Charles S.	Priestley, W.E.B. (Bradford, E)
Branch, James	Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon. S.)	Radford, G. H.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Higham, John Sharp	Raphael, Herbert H.
Brodie, H. C.	Hobart, Sir Robert	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'
Brooke, Stopford	Hogan, Michael	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Bryce, J. Annan	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	Richards, T. F. (Wolverhamp'n
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Hudson, Walter	Richardson, A.
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Hyde, Clarendon	Ridsdale, E. A.
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Jardine, Sir J.	Roberts, Chas. H. (Lincoln)
Byles, William Pollard	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Jones, William(Carnarvonshire	Roberts, John H. (Denbighs)
Chance, Frederick William	Jowett, F. W.	Robinson, S.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Kearley, Hudson E.	Rose, Charles Day
Clarke, C. Goddard	Kennedy, Vincent Paul	Rowlands, J.
Clough, William	Kilbride, Denis	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Clynes, J. R.	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Laidlaw, Robert	Scott, A. H (Ashton-under-Lyne)
Collins, Sir Wm J.(S.Pancras, W.	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Seely, Major J. B.
Cooper, G. J.	Lambert, George	Shackleton, David James
Corbett,C.H.(Sussex E Grinst'd)	Lamont, Norman	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Cory, Clifford John	Lehmann, R C.	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Cowan, W. H.	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Cox, Harold	Levy, Maurice	Smyth, Thomas F.(Leitrim, S.)
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Lewis, John Herbert	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Crean, Eugene	Lough, Thomas	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Crosfield, A. H.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Summerbell, T.
Dalziel, James Henry	Lyell, Charles Henry	Sutherland, J. E.
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Maclean, Donald	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)	MacVeagh, Jeremiah(Down, S.)	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)	MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)	Tomkinson, James
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Toulmin, George
Dunne, Major E.Martin(Walsall	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald	Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	M'Micking, Major G.	Wadsworth, J.
Edwards, Frank, (Radnor)	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Walsh, Stephen
Elibank, Master of	Markham, Arthur Basil	Walters, John Tudor
Essex, R. W.	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)	Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)
Everett, E. Lacey	Meehan, Patrick A.	Wardle, George J.
Fenwick, Charles	Menzies, Walter	Waring, Walter
Ferens, T. R.	Mond, A.	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
F french, Peter	Montague, E. S.	Waterlow, D. S.
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Morse, L. L.	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Fuller, John Michael F.	Murphy, John	White, George (Norfolk)
Fullerton, Hugh	Norton, Captain Cecil William	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Gill, A. H.	Nussey, Thomas Willans	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.	Whitehead, Rowland
Glover, Thomas	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Goddard, Daniel Ford	O'Dowd, John	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Gooch, George Peabody	O'Grady, J.	Wills, Arthur Walters
Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	O'Shee, James John	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Gulland, John W.	Parker, James (Halifax)	Winfrey, R.
Gwynn, Stephen Lucius	Partington, Oswald
Haldane, Rt. Hn. Richard B.	Paul, Herbert	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Hall, Frederick	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Pearson, W. H.M.(Suffolk, Eye)
Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N.E.	Pirie, Duncan V.
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F	Bridgeman, W. Clive	Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Bull, Sir William James	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)
Ashley, W. W.	Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Courthope, G. Loyd
Balcarres, Lord	Carlile, E. Hildred	Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Castlereagh, Viscount	Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Cave, George	Cross, Alexander
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Dalrymple, Viscount
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Fell, Arthur
Bowles, G. Stewart	Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.
Forster, Henry William	Mason, James F. (Windsor)	Turnour, Viscount
Haddock, George R.	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Valentia, Viscount
Hamilton, Marquess of	Morpeth, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Hay, Hon. Claude George	Nield, Herbert	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Helmsley, Viscount	Randles, Sir John Scurrah	Younger, George
Hervey, F.W.F(Bury S. Edm'ds	Roberts, S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Hunt, Rowland	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley George D.	TELLLERS FOR THE NOES—
Lane-Fox, G. R.	Starkey, John R.	Mr. Hills and Mr. Watson Rutherford.
Lonadale, John Brownlee	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

Clause 2.

MR. CLAUDE HAY

moved an Amendment to provide that the Act should come into force on the same day in all parts of the British Empire. He said he had authority for that proposal because it was moved in Committee of the Army (Annual) Bill in a previous year, and was supported by every right hon. Member now sitting on the Treasury Bench. He would be interested to hear how right hon. Gentlemen opposite would reconcile their present opposition with the support they accorded to the proposal on a former occasion when they sat up all night in their endeavour to force it through. If the Committee gave the matter a single thought they would see that in these days of telegraphs and telephones it was the easiest thing in the world to enact that the Act should come into force on April 30 in all parts of the Empire. Why they should say that it should come into force in Europe and Malta and in the West Indies and America and not elsewhere he could not conceive. The Government did not scruple to spend the money of the nation in telegraphing speeches of Members to distant parts, especially when they were calculated to have a highly mischievous effect. But in this case they had only to cable a single code word. He appealed with confidence to all Ministers to support the Amendment, because they could hardly go against the votes which they had previously recorded in its favour.

Amendment proposed In page 2, line 36, to leave out from the word 'the' to the word 'one,' in line 37, and insert the words 'thirtieth day of April.' "—(Mr. Claude Hay.)

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."

MR. HALDANE

said the proposition was that the Bill should be sent all through the Empire, at any rate to a place like the West Indies, as he read the Amendment, by April 30. The Bill would not become law until a short time before April 30; it had to pass through the other House and receive the Royal Assent. What was the consequence? The hon. Member had spoken of sending out word that the Bill had passed. But they had to send out the whole text of the Bill, otherwise the unhappy troops would not know under what law they were. And the reason of the different dates in the Bill was to allow of copies of the Act being circulated.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

said the Amendment was one of those which, if carried out, would do a great deal to simplify the law as regarded the Army. The law was very difficult for soldiers and civilians to understand. The Amendment dealt with one of those reforms which doubtless were small and therefore did not catch votes at elections, and it was for that reason they were left alone by successive War Ministers. The right hon. Gentleman had said it would not be possible to cable the Bill throughout the Empire by April 30, but he thought it would meet the views of hon. Gentlemen on that side of the House if the right hon. Gentleman would give them an assurance that a uniform date would be settled for the Bill to come into operation throughout the whole of the Empire. As it was at present, the Bill would come into operation in different places at different times—a circumstance which must lead to serious inconvenience. Another point was that if on a later clause a highly desirable Amendment was made, the dates put in the Bill would make it impossible for the reform to come into operation until the 31st July. It seemed to him that it would be much better, and much less likely to lead to trouble, inconvenience, and expense of cabling, if the Bill came into operation on the same day throughout the Empire. The right hon. Gentleman himself in the late Parliament voted for the alteration proposed; at any rate, some responsible members of His Majesty's Government had voted for it; and he thought the right hon. Gentleman should have given them some much better reasons for refusing now to consider a principle which his own Party had voted for such a comparatively short time ago. The reform which his hon. friend proposed was not wide and sweeping; it simplified the law as regarded the Army, and that was an exceedingly desirable reform. Even if he could not accept this Amendment, it was to be hoped the right hon. Gentleman would see his way to propose an Amendment of his own which would bring the Act into force on the same day throughout the Empire.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said there were no less than three dates for the Bill's coming into operation in different parts of the Empire. In the United Kingdom it would come into operation on the 30th April; in Malta and the West Indies on the 31st July; and elsewhere on the 31st December. If on the 31st July certain troops were on voyage between Liverpool and the West Indies, it was obvious that they would be "elsewhere." They would not be in the United Kingdom, they would not be in the Channel Islands, and they would not have arrived at the West Indies; therefore they were "elsewhere." Under those circumstances, those particular troops would not have the law applicable to them until the 31st December. And the effect would be that when they got to the West Indies they would find that the other troops already there would have had the new law in operation on the 31st July, but that they, by reason of their having been "elsewhere," would not get the benefit of the new law until the 31st December—six months later. He appealed to the right hon. Gentleman to accept the Amendment. He thought it would be rather unreasonable to expect that the Bill should be telegraphed to all parts of the Empire by the 31st of April. But the right hon. Gentleman might compromise the matter by making the date the 31st July for all the Empire. By that date it might be possible to send a copy of the Act to the forces all over His Majesty's dominions, including even the Channel Islands and "elsewhere,'' and so bring the Act into operation on one and the same date.

CAPTAIN CRAIG

said the Secretary of State did not deny that such an Amendment was desirable, but what he said was that it was impracticable. That did not appear to have occurred to the right hon. Gentleman two years ago when he voted for a similar Amendment. It was most important that the date on which the Army (Annual) Act came in force should be the same all over the Empire. Some very grave questions of military law might arise in consequence of the Amendments which had been made in the Act if it did not come into force in all the parts of the Empire at the same time.

MAJOR COATES (Lewisham)

said that one reason given by the Secretary of State for War why the Amendment could not be accepted was that it was impossible for the Bill to reach the various Colonies at the same time. So far as subsection (b) was concerned the Act was in force up to the 31st July, 1907, and surely that left them plenty of time to get a copy of the Act in Malta, the West Indies, and America.

MR. COURTHOPE

said that in the Bill subsection (a) classified the United Kingdom, the Channel Islands, and the Isle of Man together, and in those places the Army Annual Act expired on the 30th April. In the Colonies it did not expire until the 31st July. He could show that for certain purposes the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man were deemed to be Colonies, and—

*THE CHAIRMAN

That question does not arise under this Amendment.

MR. JAMES CAMPBELL (Dublin University)

said that surely, in considering whether the clause should be amended or not, it was in order to point out that there was a glaring inaccuracy.

THE CHAIRMAN

The hon. Member for Rye has a new clause raising the point, and when we reach that it will be the right time to raise this point.

MR. COURTHOPE

said it would be a matter of convenience that the Act for all purposes should come into operation on the same day in all parts of the Empire.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

asked for an expression of opinion as to whether it was not really desirable that the Bill should come into operation in every part of the Empire on the same day. None of the objections which had hitherto been raised against that proposal had much validity. If one day was unsuitable on account of telegraphic limitations another day might be found which would be perfectly suitable for all parts of the Empire. He did not think there was much in the argument that it was impossible to telegraph the Bill to the Colonies. There had been many instances of the reckless way in which the Government had telegraphed more or less useless information, and if they wanted to make economies in telegraphic charges he would suggest that it might be done by a readjustment of the matter which they thought it necessary to transmit.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

appealed to the Secretary of State for War to answer the arguments which had been addressed to him. He did not think the right hon. Gentleman had quite realised how valuable the penny post might be to the War Office. If a uniform date had been selected there would have been no need to cable the matter at all; the penny post could have been used. He had preferred the old and more cumbersome method. That was thoroughly in accordance with the traditions of the War Office and the profession which the right hon. Gentleman adorned. He believed there was no other statute passed in recent years which came into operation on different dates in different portions of the Empire.

MR. CARLILE (Hertfordshire, St. Albans)

said the conditions under which soldiers served should be uniform. If the Amendment was not adopted the conditions would be very diverse, and that would not conduce to the efficiency of the Army. The soldiers should be allowed to have like privileges on the same day.

MR. MACVEAGH

Hear, hear! We will make it the first of April.

MR. CARLILE

said that even at the risk of appearing to differ from some of the alleged improvements to which the right hon. Gentleman attached so much importance, they thought that soldiers in every part of the Empire should have the same privileges. The right hon. Gentleman proposed to bring the proposed alterations, many of them of a most serious character, into operation on a series of dates—in some cases three months hence, and in others nine months. It was a most important matter, and he and his friends would certainly go into the Division lobby in support of the reasonable proposal of his hon. friend. They were determined that this matter should be thoroughly discussed. They did not consider the labour or the personal inconvenience to which they would be submitted; in fact they rather liked it.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said that the hon. Gentleman was not in order in the line of argument he was pursuing.

MR. CARLILE

said he thanked the Chairman very much for his guidance; but he appealed to the Chairman to protect him from the interruptions of hon. Members opposite. [Cries of "Divide."] The same consideration as to treatment ought to be given to our soldiers all over the Empire.

MR. T. L. CORBETT (Down, N.)

desired to join in the appeal to the right hon. Gentleman to reply to the arguments which had been addressed to him. The debate began with a very courteous intimation from the right hon. Gentleman that hon. Members had come under the sinister influence of the Chief Whip!

*THE CHAIRMAN

said that the hon. Member was entirely irrelevant in his remarks, and he hoped that he would refrain from a repetition of those imputations.

MR. T. L. CORBETT

said he only wished to repeat the appeal to the right hon. Gentleman that he would answer the arguments addressed to him; otherwise the Committee proceedings would be reduced to a mere farce. They were perfectly entitled to hear from the right hon. Gentleman some explanation of—

*THE CHAIRMAN

said that the hon. Gentleman was entirely out of order, and

he must withdraw the expression about the sinister influence of the Chief Whip.

MR. L. L. CORBETT

said that he withdrew the remark, but he must insist that he and his friends had been subjected to interruptions from below the gangway.

MR. HALDANE

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 183; Noes, 49. (Division List No. 54.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Lehmann, R. C.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich
Alden, Percy	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Levy, Maurice
Allen, Acland (Christchurch)	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Lewis, John Herbert
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Elibank, Master of	Lough, Thomas
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Essex, R. W.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Everett, R. Lacey	Lyell, Charles Henry
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Fenwick, Charles	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Barnard, E. B.	Ferens, T. R.	Maclean, Donald
Barran, Rowland Hirst	F french, Peter	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	MacVeigh, Charles(Donegal, E.)
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.	Fuller, John Michael F.	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Beale, W. P.	Fullerton, Hugh	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald
Beauchamp, E.	Gill, A. H.	M'Micking, Major G.
Benn, W.(Tower H'mlets, S. Geo	Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herbert John	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Bennett, E. N.	Glover, Thomas	Markham, Arthur Basil
Bowerman, C. W.	Goddard, Daniel Ford	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)
Bramsdon, T. A.	Gooch, George Peabody	Meehan, Patrick A.
Branch, James	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Menzies, Walter
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Gulland, John W.	Mond, A.
Brodie, H. C.	Haldane, Rt.: Hon. Richard B.	Montagu, E. S.
Brooke, Stopford	Hall, Frederick	Morse, L. L.
Bryce, J. Annan	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Murphy, John
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Harvey, W.E.(Derbyshire, N.E.	Norton, Captain Cecil William
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Hayden, John Patrick	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid
Byles, William Pollard	Hemmerde, Edward George	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	O'Dowd, John
Chance, Frederick William	Henry, Charles S.	O'Grady. J.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.)	O'Shee, James John
Clarke, C. Goddard	Higham, John Sharp	Parker, James (Halifax)
Clough, William	Hobart, Sir Robert	Partington, Oswald
Clynes, J. R.	Hogan, Michael	Paul, Herbert
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W	Hudson, Walter	Pearson, W.H.M. (Suffolk, Eye)
Cooper, G. J.	Hyde, Clarendon	Pirie, Duncan V.
Corbett,C.H.(Sussex, E Grinst'd	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Pollard, Dr.
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Jones, William (Carnavonshire	Power, Patrick Joseph
Cory, Clifford John	Jowett, F. W.	Price, C.E.(Edinburgh, Central)
Cowan, W. H.	Kearley, Hudson E.	Priestley, W.E.B.(Bradford, E.
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Kilbride, Denis	Radford, G. H.
Crean, Eugene	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Raphael, Herbert H.
Crosfield, A. H.	Laidlaw, Robert	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'
Dalziel, James Henry	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Lambert, George	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Lamont, Norman	Richardson, A.
Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness)	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Ridsdale, E. A.
Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Summerbell, T.	White, George (Norfolk)
Robinson, S.	Sutherland, J. E.	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Rose, Charles Day	Taylor, John W. (Durham)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Rowlands, J.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	Whitehead, Rowland
Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Schwann, C. Ducan (Hyde)	Tomkinson, James	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Scott, A.H. (Ashton-und.-Lyne	Toulmin, George	Wills, Arthur Walters
Seely, Major J. B.	Villiers, Ernest Amherst	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Shackleton, David James	Wadsworth, J.	Winfrey, R.
Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Walsh, Stephen
Shipman, Dr. John G.	Walters, John Tudor	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Silcock, Thomas Ball	Wardle, George J.	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	Waring, Walter
Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph(Chesh.)	Waterlow, D. S.
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Rt Hn. Sir Alex. F	Craig, Captain James(Down, E.	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Cross, Alexander	Nield, Herbert
Ashley, W. W.	Dalrymple, Viscount	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Balcarres, Lord	Fell, Arthur	Roberts, S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Forster, Henry William	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley George D.
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Haddock, George R.	Starkey, John R.
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hamilton, Marquess of	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford	Valentia, Viscount
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Wilson, A. Stanley(York, E.R.)
Cave, George	Hills, J. W.	Younger, George
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Hunt, Rowland
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Lane-Fox, G. R.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Mr. Meysey-Thompson and Sir William Bull.
Courthope, G. Loyd	Meysey-Thomson, E. C.
Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.	Morpeth, Viscount

Question put accordingly, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 183; Noes, 49. (Division List No. 55.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Fenwick, Charles
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Chance, Frederick William	Ferens, T. R.
Alden, Percy	Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	F french, Peter
Allen, A. Acland(Christchurch)	Clarke, C. Goddard	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Clough, William	Fuller, John Michael F.
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Clynes, J. R.	Fullerton, Hugh
Baring, Godfrey(Isle of Wight)	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Gill, A. H.
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W.	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John
Barnard, E. B.	Cooper, G. J.	Glover, Thomas
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Corbett, C H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Goddard, Daniel Ford
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Gooch, George Peabody
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Cory, Clifford John	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)
Beale, W. P.	Cowan, W. H.	Gulland, John W.
Beauchamp, E.	Craig, Herbert J.(Tynemouth)	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Crean, Eugene	Hall, Frederick
Bennett, E. N.	Crosfield, A. H.	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)
Bowerman, C. W.	Dalziel, James Henry	Harvey, W. E.(Derbyshire, N.E.
Bramsdon, T. A.	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Hayden, John Patrick
Branch, James	Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Hazel, Dr. A. E.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Hemmerde, Edward George
Brodie, H. C.	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)
Brooke, Stopford	Dunne, Major E.Martin(Walsall	Henry, Charles S.
Bryce, J. Annan	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Herbert, Colonel Ivor(Mon., S.)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Edwards Frank (Radnor)	Higham, John Sharp
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Elibank, Master of	Hobart, Sir Robert
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Essex, R. W.	Hogan, Michael
Byles, William Pollard	Everett, R. Lacey	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey
Hudson, Walter	Norton, Captain Cecil William	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Hyde, Clarendon	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Johnson, John (Gateshead)	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Jones, William(Carnarvons hire)	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Ches.)
Jowett, F. W.	O'Dowd, John	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Kearley, Hudson E.	O'Grady, J.	Summerbell, T.
Kilbride, Denis	O'Shee, James John	Sutherland, J. E.
King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Parker, James (Halifax)	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Laidlaw, Robert	Partington, Oswald	Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe)
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Paul, Herbert	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Lambert, George	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Tomkinson, James
Lamont, Norman	Pearson, W. H. M.(Suffolk, Eye)	Toulmin, George
Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Pirie, Duncan V.	Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Lehmann, R. C.	Pollard, Dr.	Wadsworth, J.
Lever, A Levy(Essex, Harwich)	Power, Patrick Joseph	Walsh, Stephen
Levy, Maurice	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)	Walters, John Tudor
Lewis, John Herbert	Priestley, W. E. B.(Bradford, E.	Wardle, George J.
Lough, Thomas	Radford, G. H.	Waring, Walter
Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Raphael, Herbert H.	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Lyell, Charles Henry	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'	Waterlow, D. S.
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Redmond, John E.(Waterford)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Maclean, Donald	Richards, T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n	White, George (Norfolk)
MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)	Richardson, A.	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)	Ridsdale, E. A.	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Whitehead, Rowland
M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
M'Micking, Major G.	Robinson, S.	Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n
Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Rose, Charles Day	Wills, Arthur Walters
Markham, Arthur Basil	Rowlands, J.	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Winfrey, R.
Meehan, Patrick A.	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Menzies, Walter	Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne)
Mond, A.	Seely, Major J. B.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Montagu, E. S.	Shackleton, David James	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Morse, L. L.	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.)
Murphy, John	Shipman, Dr. John G.
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F	Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.	Nield, Herbert
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig, Captain James(Down, E.)	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Ashley, W. W.	Cross, Alexander	Roberts, S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Balcarres, Lord	Dalrymple, Viscount	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Fell, Arthur	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley George D.
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Starkey, John R.
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Forster, Henry William	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Haddock, George R.	Turnour, Viscount
Bridgeman W. Clive	Hamilton, Marquess of	Valentia, Viscount
Bull, Sir William James	Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Helmsley, Viscount	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Carlile, E. Hildred	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Castlereagh, Viscount.	Hills, J. W.	Younger, George
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Tellers for the Noes—
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Viscount Turnour and Mr. Claude Hay.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Morpeth, Viscount
Courthope, G. Loyd	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)

MR. HALDANE

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question 'That the Clause stand part of the Bill' be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 182; Noes, 49. (Division List No. 56.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch	Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Barlow, Percy (Bedford)
Alden, Percy	Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Barnard, E. B.
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Hall, Frederick	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Pearson, W. H. M. (Suffolk, Eye)
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N.E	Pirie, Duncan V.
Beale, W. P.	Hayden, John Patrick	Pollard, Dr.
Beauchamp, E.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Power, Patrick Joseph
Benn, W.(T'w'r'H'mlets, S. Geo.	Hemmerde, Edward George	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)
Bennett, E. N.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Priestley, W. E. B. (Bradford, E.
Bowerman, C. W.	Henry, Charles S.	Radford, G. H.
Bramsdon, T. A.	Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Hon., S.	Raphael, Herbert H.
Branch, James	Higham, John Sharp	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Hobart, Sir Robert	Redmond, John E. (Waterford
Brodie, H. C.	Hogan, Michael	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Brooke, Stopford	Howard, Hon. Goeffrey	Richardson, A.
Bryce, J. Annan	Hudson, Walter	Ridsdale, E. A.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Hyde, Clarendon	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	Robinson, S.
Byles, William Pollard	Jowett, F. W.	Rose, Charles Day
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Kearley, Hudson E.	Rowlands, J.
Chance, Frederick William	Kilbride, Denis	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Clarke, C. Goddard	Laidlaw, Robert	Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne
Clough, William	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Seely, Major J. B.
Clynes, J. R.	Lambert, George	Shackleton, David James
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Lamont, Norman	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.)
Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Shipman, Dr. John. G.
Cooper, G. J.	Lehmann, R. C	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Corbett,C.H. (Sussex, E. Gr'st'd	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Levy, Maurice	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.
Cory, Clifford John	Lewis, John Herbert	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph(Chesh.)
Cowan, W. H.	Lough, Thomas	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Craig, Hebert J. (Tynemouth)	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Summerbell, T.
Crean, Eugene	Lyell, Charles Henry	Sutherland, J. E.
Crosfield, A. H.	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Dalziel, James Henry	Maclean, Donald	Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe)
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr)
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)	Tomkinson, James
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Toulmin, George
Dunn, A. Edward(Camborne)	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald	Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Dunne, Major E.Martin(Walsall	M'Micking, Major G.	Wadsworth, J.
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Walsh, Stephen
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Markham, Arthur Basil	Walters, John Tudor
Elibank, Master of.	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)	Wardle, George J.
Essex, R. W.	Meehan, Patrick A.	Waring, Walter
Everett, R. Lacey	Menzies, Walter	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Fenwick, Charles	Mond, A.	Waterlow, D. S.
Ferens, T. R.	Montagu, E. S.	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
F french, Peter	Morse, L. L.	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Murphy, John	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Fuller, John Michael F.	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Whitehead, Rowland
Fullerton, Hugh	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Whiteley, John Henry (Halifax)
Gill, A. H.	O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Wills, Arthur Walters
Glover, Thomas	O'Dowd, John	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Goddard, Daniel Ford	O'Grady, J.	Winfrey, R.
Gooch, George Peabody	O'Shee, James John
Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Parker, James (Halifax)	Tellers for the Ayes—Mr.Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease
Gulland, John W.	Partingdon, Oswald
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Paul, Herbert
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F.	Carlile, E. Hildred	Fell, Arthur
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Cave, George	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.
Ashley, W. W.	Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C.W.	Forster, Henry William
Balcarres, Lord	Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Haddock, George R.
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Hamilton, Marquess of
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Courthope, G. Loyd	Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.	Hay, Hon. Claude George
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Craig, Captain James(Down, E.)	Helmsley, Viscount
Bull, Sir William James	Cross, Alexander	Hervey, F. W.F(Bury S. Edmd's
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Dalrymple, Viscount	Hills, J. W.
Hunt, Rowland	Roberts, S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)	Williams, Col, R. (Dorset, W.)
Lane-Fox, G. R.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley George D.	Younger, George
Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Starkey, John R.
Morpeth, Viscount	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)	Tellers for the Noes—Viscount Castlereagh and Mr. Harmood-Banner.
Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)	Turnour, Viscount
Nield, Herbert	Valentia, Viscount
Randles, Sir John Scurrah	Walrond, Hon. Lionel

Question put, "That the Question 'That the Clause stand part of the Bill' be now put."

Question put accordingly.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 183; Noes, 48. (Division List No. 57.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Morse, L. L.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Fuller, John Michael F.	Murphy, John
Alden, Percy	Fullerton, Hugh	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Allen, A Acland(Christchurch)	Gill, A. H.	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Glover, Thomas	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Baring, Godfrey(Isle of Wight)	Gooch, George Peabody	O'Dowd, John
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	O'Grady, J.
Barnard, E. B.	Gulland, John W.	O'Shee, James John
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Parker, James (Halifax)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Hall, Frederick	Partington, Oswald
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Paul, Herbert
Beale, W. P.	Harvey, W. E.(Derbyshire, N.E.	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Beauchamp, E.	Hayden, John Patrick	Pearson, W.H.M.(Suffolk, Eye)
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.)	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Pirie, Duncan V.
Bennett, E. N.	Hemmerde, Edward George	Pollard, Dr.
Bowerman, C. W.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Power, Patrick Joseph
Bramsdon, T. A.	Henry, Charles S.	Price, C. E.(Edinburgh, Central)
Branch, James	Herbert, Colonel Ivor(Mon., S.)	Priestley, W.E.B.(Bradford, E.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Higham, John Sharp	Radford, G. H.
Brodie, H. C.	Hobart, Sir Robert	Raphael, Herbert H.
Brooke, Stopford	Hogan, Michael	Rea, Walter Russell(Scarboro'
Bryce, J. Annan	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Hudson, Walter	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mptn
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Hyde, Clarendon	Richardson, A.
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Ridsdale, E. A.
Byles, William Pollard	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Jowett, F. W.	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Chance, Frederick William	Kearley, Hudson E.	Robinson, S.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Kilbride, Denis	Rose, Charles Day
Clarke, C. Goddard	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Rowlands, J.
Clough, William	Laidlaw, Robert	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Clynes, J. R,	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Lambert, George	Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne
Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W.)	Lamont, Norman	Seely, Major J. B.
Cooper, G. J.	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Shackleton, David James
Corbett,C.H(Sussex, E. Grinst'd)	Lehmann, R. C.	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.)
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Lever, A Levy(Essex, Harwich)	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Cory, Clifford John	Levy, Maurice	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Cowan, W. H.	Lewis, John Herbert	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Lough, Thomas	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.
Crean, Eugene	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph(Chesh.)
Crosfield, A. H.	Lyell, Charles Henry	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Dalziel, James Henry	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Summerbell, T.
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Maclean, Donald	Sutherland, J. E.
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)	MacVeigh, Charles(Donegal, E.)	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Dunne, Major E.Martin(Walsall)	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald	Tomkinson, James
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	M'Micking, Major G.	Toulmin, George
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Villiers, Amherst
Elibank, Master of	Markham, Arthur Basil	Wadsworth, J.
Essex, R. W.	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)	Walsh, Stephen
Everett, R. Lacey	Meehan, Patrick A.	Walters, John Tudor
Fenwick, Charles	Menzies, Walter	Wardle, George J.
Ferens, T. R.	Mond, A.	Waring, Walter
Ffrench, Peter	Montagu, E. S.	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Waterlow, D. S.	Whitehead, Rowland	Winfrey, R.
Wedgwood, Josiah C.	Whiteley, John Henry (Halifax)
White, George (Norfolk)	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarthen	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and.Mr. J. A. Pease.
White, Luke (York, E.R.)	Wills, Arthur Walters
White, Patrick (Meath, North)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex F.	Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.	Nield, Herbert
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Ashley, W. W.	Cross, Alexander	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall
Balcarres, Lord	Dalrymple, Viscount	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Fell, Arthur	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley Geo. D.
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Finch, Rt. Hon. George	Starkey, John R.
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Forster, Henry William	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Haddock, George R.	Turnour, Viscount
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hamilton, Marquess of	Valentia, Viscount
Bull, Sir William James	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Williams, Col. R (Dorset, W.)
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Helmsley, Viscount	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.
Carlile, E, Hildred	Hervey, F.W.F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Younger, George
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hills, J. W.
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. William Nicholson and Mr. Walrond.
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W.	Lane-Fox, G. R.
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Courthope, G. Loyd	Morpeth, Viscount

Clause 3:—

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

moved the insertion of the words "good and sufficient" to describe the accommodation to be provided by the Army victuallers. The accommodation provided might be good, bad or indifferent, but according to this Clause, whatever the accommodation was it had got to be paid for in accordance with the prices specified in the Act. The answer which had on a former occasion been given to the Amendment was that there were penalties which could be imposed upon a licensed victualler if he failed to provide proper accommodation. Parliament ought to take care when proposing to give more ample payment for this provision that the accommodation should be good, and—

MR. HALDANE

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the question that the Clause stand part of the Bill." [Opposition cries of "Monstrous!" and "Gag!"]

THE CHAIRMAN

The Question is, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

speaking seating and covered, raised a point of order. He said that his Amendment had been proposed, and therefore, if the Secretary for War were in order in moving the closure at all, it must be the closure on the Amendment, and not on the clause. He submitted that the right hon. Gentleman had no right to move such a Motion as that which he had proposed. He contended that the Question that Clause 3 be added to the Bill could not be put under the Rules of the House. Under the Standing Orders the only point that could be put when the closure was accepted was the question before the House.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said that the proceedings were regular. No question had been put from the Chair when the closure was moved.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

I had been called on to move my Amendment.

*THE CHAIRMAN

That makes no difference. It is in my discretion to accept the closure, and the fact that the hon. Member had been called upon does not affect it at all. [Opposition cries of "Gag!"]

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

On the point of order, Sir. Do I understand that you in your discretion think that Clause 3 has been sufficiently debated?

*THE CHAIRMAN

The hon. Member cannot put a point of order to me now. [Opposition cries of "Why not?" and "Gag, gag!"]

Question put, "That the Question 'That the Clause stand part of the Bill' be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 181; Noes, 47. (Division List No. 58.

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Gooch, George Peabody	Paul, Herbert
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek)
Alden, Percy	Gulland, John W.	Pearson, W.H.M. (Suffolk, Eye)
Allen, A Acland(Christchurch)	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Pirie, Duncan V.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Hall, Frederick	Pollard, Dr.
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Power, Patrick Joseph
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Harvey, W.E. (Derbyshire, N.E.)	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Hayden, John Patrick	Priestley, W.E.B. (Bradford, E.)
Barnard, E. B.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Radford, G. H.
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Hemmerde, Edward George	Raphael, Herbert H.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro')
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Henry, Charles S.	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Beauchamp, E.	Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.)	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mptn)
Benn, W.(T'w'rH'mlets, S. Geo.)	Higham, John Sharp	Richardson, A.
Bennett, E. N.	Hobart, Sir Robert	Ridsdale, E. A
Bowerman, C. W.	Hogan, Michael	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Bramsdon, T. A.	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Branch, James	Hudson, Walter	Robinson, S.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Hyde, Clarendon	Rose, Charles Day
Brodie, H. C.	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Rowlands, J.
Brooke, Stopford	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire)	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Bryce, J. Annan	Jowett, F. W.	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Kearley, Hudson E.	Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne)
Burns, Rt. Hon John	Kilbride, Denis	Seely, Major J. B.
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Shackleton, David James
Byles, William Pollard	Laidlaw, Robert	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Chance, Frederick William	Lambert, George	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Lamont, Norman	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Clarke, C. Goddard	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Smyth, Thomas F.(Leitrim, S.)
Clough, William	Lehmann, R. C.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Clynes, J. R.	Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich)	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Levy, Maurice	Summerbell, T.
Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancr's, W.)	Lewis, John Herbert	Sutherland, J. E.
Cooper, G. J.	Lough, Thomas	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Corbett,C.H(Sussex, E. Grinst'd)	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Lyell, Charles Henry	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr)
Cory, Clifford John	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Tomkinson, James
Craig, Hebert J. (Tynemouth)	Maclean, Donald	Toulmin, George
Crean, Eugene	MacVeagh, Jeremiah(Down, S.)	Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Crosfield, A. H.	MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)	Wadsworth, J.
Dalziel, James Henry	M'Huge, Patrick A.	Walsh, Stephen
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon Reginald	Walters, John Tudor
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Wardle, George J.
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)	Markham, Arthur Basil	Waring, Walter
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall)	Meehan, Patrick A.	Waterlow, D. S.
Edwards, Enoch (Hanely)	Menzies, Walter	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Mond, A.	White, George (Norfolk)
Elibank, Master of	Montagu, E. S.	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Essex, R. W.	Morse, L. L.	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Everett, R. Lacey	Murphy, John	Whitehead, Rowland
Fenwick, Charles	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Ferens, T. R.	Nussey, Thomas Willians	Williams, Llewelyn(Carm'rth'n)
Ffrench, Peter	O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid	Wills, Arthur Walters
Fuller, John Michael F.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Fullerton, Hugh	O'Dowd, John	Winfrey, R.
Gill, A. H.	O'Grady, J.
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Hebert Jhn.	O'Shee, James John	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Glover, Thomas	Parker, James (Halifax)	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Goddard, Daniel Ford	Partington, Oswald
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Cross, Alexander	Nield, Herbert
Ashley, W. W.	Dalrymple, Viscount	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Balcarres, Lord	Fell, Arthur	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Forster, Henry William	Starkey, John R,
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Haddock, George R.	Talbot, Lord E.(Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hamilton, Marquess of	Turnour, Viscount
Bull, Sir William James	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Valentia, Viscount
Campbell, Rt, Hon. J. H. M.	Helmsley, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Carlile, E. Hildred	Hervey, F.W.F(Bury S.Edm'ds)	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hills, J. W.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York,E.R.)
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	Younger, George
Cavendish, Rt.Hon. Victor C. W.	Lane-Fox, G. R.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—.
Courthope, G. Loyd	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Major Coates
Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.)	Morpeth, Viscount
Craig, Captain James(Down, E.)	Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield)

Question put accordingly.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

On a point of order. Do I understand that it is your ruling that you accept the closure for any of the clauses of the Bill without their being discussed?

*THE CHAIRMAN

The question of accepting the closure is passed, but as

a matter of courtesy to the noble Lord I will frankly explain that I considered the Amendments were of rather a frivolous nature, and that the clause has been passed in the same form year after year.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 181; Noes, 47. (Division List No. 59.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Cory, Clifford John	Herbert, Colonel Ivor(Mon., S.)
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Cowan, W. H.	Higham, John Sharp
Alden, Percy	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Hobart, Sir Robert
Allen, A. Acland(Christchurch)	Crean, Eugene	Hogan, Michael
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Crosfield, A. H.	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Dalziel, James Henry	Hudson, Walter
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Hyde, Clarendon
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Davies,W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Johnson, John (Gateshead)
Barnard, E. B.	Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness)	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Jowett, F. W.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Dunne, MajorE.Martin(Walsall)	Kearley, Hudson E.
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone,N.)	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Kilbride, Denis
Beauchamp, E.	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)
Benn, W.(T'w'rHamlets, S. Geo.)	Elibank, Master of	Laidlaw, Robert
Bennett, E. N.	Essex, R. W.	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Bowerman, C. W.	Everett, R. Lacey	Lambert, George
Bramsdon, T. A.	Fenwick, Charles	Lamont, Norman
Branch, James	Ferens, T. R.	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Ffrench, Peter	Lehmann, R. C.
Brodie, H. C.	Fuller, John Michael F.	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich
Brooke, Stopford	Fullerton, Hugh	Levy, Maurice
Bryce, J. Annan	Gill, A. H.	Lewis, John Herbert
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herbert John	Lough, Thomas
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Glover, Thomas	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Goddard, Daniel Ford	Lyell, Charles Henry
Byles, William Pollard	Gooch, George Peabody	Macdonald, J. R (Leicester)
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Maclean, Donald
Chance, Frederick William	Gulland, John W.	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	MacVeigh, Charles.(Donagal, E.)
Clarke, C. Goddard	Hall, Frederick	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Clough, William	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald
Clynes, J. R.	Harvey, W. E.(Derbyshire, N. E.	M'Micking, Major G.
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Hayden, John Patrick	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Collins, Sir Wm. J(S. Pancras, W.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Markham, Arthur Basil
Cooper, G. J.	Hemmerde, Edward George	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)
Corbett, CH(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Meehan, Patrick A.
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Henry, Charles S.	Menzies, Walter
Mond, A.	Richards, T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n)	Tomkinson, James
Montagu, E. S.	Richardson, A.	Toulmin, George
Morse, L. L.	Ridsdale, E. A.	Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Murphy, John	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Wadsworth, J.
Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Walsh, Stephen
Nussey, Thomas Willans	Robinson, S.	Walters, John Tudor
O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary, Mid	Rose, Charles Day	Wardle, George J.
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Rowlands, J.	Waring, Walter
O'Dowd, John	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
O'Grady, J.	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)	Waterlow, D. S.
O'Shee, James John	Scott, A.H.(Ashton-under-Lyne	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Parker, James (Halifax)	Seely, Major J. B.	White, George (Norfolk)
Partington, Oswald	Shackleton, David James	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Paul, Herbert	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Whitehead, Rowland
Pearson, W.H. M. (Suffolk, Eye)	Silcock, Thomas Ball	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Pirie, Duncan V.	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Pollard, Dr.	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)	Wills, Arthur Walters
Power, Patrick Joseph	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)	Winfrey, R.
Priestley, W. E.B.(Bradford, E.)	Summerbell, T.
Radford,. G. H.	Sutherland, J. E.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Raphael, Herbert H.	Taylor, John W. (Durham)	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro')	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Redmond, John E.(Waterford)	Thomas, DavidAlfred(Merthyr)
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex F.	Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.)	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)	Nield, Herbert
Ashley, W. W.	Cross, Alexander	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Balcarres, Lord	Dalrymple, Viscount	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Banner, John S. Harmood	Fell, Arthur	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley GeorgeD.
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Starkey, John R.
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Forster, Henry William	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Haddock, George R.	Turnour, Viscount
Bull, Sir William James	Hamilton, Marquess of	Valentia, Viscount
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Cave, George	Hills, J. W.	Younger, George
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Hunt, Rowland
Coates, E. Feetham(Lewisham)	Lane-Fox, G. R.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES,—
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Mr. Watson Rutherford and Mr. Lonsdale.
Courthope, G. Loyd	Morpeth, Viscount

Clause 4:—

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

*MR. FORSTER

moved that progress be reported. They had, he said, been discussing the Bill for three hours, and he could not help thinking that in all the circumstances they would, by adjourning, do the best thing to preserve the credit of the House, of the Army, of the Government, and of all parties concerned. The discussion should be adjourned until it could be resumed when their feelings were less strong and excited, more especially when they were coming to a new and controversial clause.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report progress;

and ask leave to sit again."—(Mr. H. W. Forster.)

MR. HALDANE

said that this was an absolutely necessary Bill which must pass now. It was part of the machinery of the Army. The regrettable practice had grown up of discussing the Bill at length; but the duty of the Minister in charge was clear: he must get his Bill. Therefore on behalf of the Government he should resist the Motion.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

said that the Secretary of State for War talked as if the Bill were a matter of urgency, whereas it was not necessary to pass it before the 30th of April. He thought the right hon. Gentleman did not understand the gravaman of the charge the Opposition had to make against the Government and the Patronage Secretary to the Treasury in taking the Consolidated Fund Bill before this Bill. He would say without fear of contradiction that had this Bill come on immediately after eleven o'clock it would have been passed through Committee by one or two o'clock. The Committee must remember that when the Third Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill was taken after closure, many of them on that side of the House were prevented from criticising it.

*THE CHAIRMAN

called the noble Lord to order, stating that he had already ruled that the hon. Member must not reflect on the action of the Committee in accepting the closure.

*VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

said that he was not reflecting on the action of the Committee, but on the conduct of the Patronage Secretary to the Treasury in bringing forward the Bill.

*THE CHAIRMAN

I must again call the hon. Member to order.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

said that it was owing to the Patronage Secretary having brought forward the Bill that evening that the House found itself unable to deal with it in a proper manner. The Committee on the motion of the Secretary for War accepted the closure—

*THE CHAIRMAN

I again call the noble Lord to order. He is reflecting once more on the decision of the Committee, and he is not entitled to do that. I must request the noble Lord to carry out my ruling.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

thought the Chairman had failed to recognise the point he was endeavouring to make. [MINITERIAL cries of "Order!" and "Name."] He was not in the least reflecting on the decision the Committee had come to. But he was pointing out that the decision having been come to, and the Committee being in the mood to closure every clause, it was perfectly impossible to discuss with advantage the remaining portions of the Bill. In these circumstances he thought that the discussion should be postponed and progress reported.

MR. CHARLES CRAIG (Antrim, S.)

supported the motion to report progress on the ground that the proceedings had been reduced to a farce mainly by the action of hon. Members opposite. On two or three occasions that night hon. Members opposite had voted in direct opposition to the votes they gave on similar Amendments two years ago. That was a first-class example of Radical inconsistency.

*THE CHAIRMAN

What has that got to do with the Motion before the House, which is that I report progress?

MR. CHARLES CRAIG

said he was endeavouring to show that the discussion should be adjourned because it was impossible that the Bill could be properly debated in view of the action of hon. Gentlemen opposite. He repeated that the proceedings of the Committee, owing to the action of hon. Gentlemen opposite, had been reduced to a pure farce. Hon. Gentlemen opposite would doubtless attempt to throw the blame on his colleagues and himself, and say that they were prolonging the debate unnecessarily. But the excuse was as absurd as it was transparent. Moreover, at an earlier stage in the proceedings, an hon. Member on that side of the House appealed to the Chairman for protection, and was informed that it was not to be expected in a long sitting like that that an hon. Member should receive a quiet hearing. For himself he regarded the proceedings that night as disgraceful.

*THE CHAIRMAN

The hon. Member is not correctly stating what I said. I said that in a long sitting of this kind there was always a certain amount of interruption. I never said that it was impossible for an hon. Member to get a quiet hearing.

MR. CHARLES CRAIG

said he apologised for misrepresenting what the Chairman had said. He had only adduced the remarks of the Chairman as a reason why the Motion of his hon. friend should be accepted. He would appeal to hon. Members below him if they had a sense of humour to see the absurdity of the situation. The Government Benches were crammed with Members who in each successive division piously and dutifully reversed their own votes. He should think that under those circumstances, seeing the length of time that they had been attempting to discuss the Bill and the way in which every reasonable attempt on their part to do so had been met by a Motion of the right hon. Gentleman to gag them—

*THE CHAIRMAN

Order, order!

MR. CHARLES CRAIG

apologised and said he was only alluding to the fact that the right hon. Gentleman always successfully moved the closure, and he thought that he ought now to accede to the request of hon. Gentlemen on that side of the House and agree to the Motion to report progress. He was sure if they were allowed then to disperse that on the next occasion when the Bill came before the Committee, provided it was at a reasonable hour of the day, he would have little difficulty in getting the remaining clauses of the Bill through.

MR. STANLEY WILSON

rose to continue the discussion, but was received with loud cries of "Divide!"

MR. T. L. CORBETT

wished to endorse the complaint which his hon. friend had made. He could not hear what was said because of the shouts and insults from the Nationalist Benches. [Loud cries of "Order!"]

*THE CHAIRMAN

The hon. Member has no right to use the word "insults." [Loud cries of "But they are!"]

MR. T. L. CORBETT

said he would withdraw the word on the Chairman's direction, but added that no Parliamentary word would describe what they in that portion of the House had heard.

*THE CHAIRMAN

I do appeal to hon. Members to be as quiet as possible, and perhaps I may appeal to hon. Members who are doing most of the speaking not to provoke interruptions.

MR. STANLEY WILSON

said he had not the slightest intention of provoking any interruption. He was exceedingly disappointed with the temper of the House, and to see that the temper of the War Minister grew shorter as the hours rolled on. He welcomed the presence of the Patronage Secretary and he earnestly hoped that the hon. Gentleman and the Secretary for War had arrived at the decision that they would allow them to have a few hours rest. He could not understand the hurry to pass this measure. Passions had been excited and were rising to a great height. Another reason why they should adjourn was that the First Commissioner of Works had gone home to bed and left all the windows open. The rooms of the House were not in a fit state for any hon. Member to occupy, and he was already suffering from a cold in consequence of the draughts. He had been to the dining-room to get some supper and the draught there was so great that it was almost impossible to sit in the room. It might he all very well for hon. Members below the gangway to go into it, because it might cool their tempers and it would be an excellent way of improving the situation if they could get rid of them. He appealed to the right hon. Gentleman to re-consider his decision.

SIR A. ACLAND-HOOD

said he appealed to the Secretary of State for War, not in the excitable tones of some of the recent speeches, but in the light of the coming dawn and in cooler tones to give way to reason and common sense. The discussion that night did not deal entirely with the existing position, because in the future the Army that they would have to deal with would be the Territorial Army which the right hon. Gentleman was endeavouring to create. Did not the right hon. Gentleman think that if that Army was going to be a great force in the country a certain amount of coaxing would be necessary to induce men to join it? Would the Army think they had been fairly dealt with when this Bill was considered between 2.30 and five in the morning? That was a point the right hon. Gentleman ought to consider. It was not only the existing soldier that he ought to regard, it was the soldier of the future, the man to whom he was looking for his Territorial Army. Did the right hon. Gentleman think that when the soldier saw that his welfare, his future, and his discipline were laughed at in the House, he was likely to come forward as a willing recruit?

MR. LANE-FOX

said one justification for moving to report progress was that on a former occasion when the Army (Annual) Bill was under discussion, a similar Motion was made at the instance of the President of the Board of Trade, seconded by the President of the Board of Education, and supported by the Under-Secretary for the Colonies. As the example then set had led to the Treasury Bench it was an example they might well follow.

MR. J. MACVEAGH

It will never lead you there.

MR. LANE-FOX

said the promise made at an earlier period by the right

hon. Gentleman that he would give fair consideration to all the points raised had not been kept. He did not believe for a moment that the hon. Gentleman intended to go back on what he had said, but he thought that had the right hon. Gentleman fulfilled his pledge the debate would have gone more smoothly and have come to a conclusion earlier. At that stage of the morning it was impossible to deal with the controversial questions which would come before the Committee and therefore he strongly supported the Motion to report progress.

MR. HALDANE

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 182; Noes, 47. (Division List No. 60.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Hemmerde, Edward George
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Cory, Clifford John	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)
Alden, Percy	Cowan, W. H.	Henry, Charles S.
Allen, A. Acland(Christchurch)	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.)
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Crean, Eugene	Higham, John Sharp
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Crosfield, A. H.	Hobart, Sir Robert
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Dalziel, James Henry	Hogan, Michael
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey
Barnard, E. B.	Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Hudson, Walter
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Hyde, Clarendon
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Johnson, John (Gateshead)
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone,N.)	Dunne, MajorE. Martin(Walsall	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire
Beauchamp, E.	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Jowett, F. W.
Benn, W.(T'wrHamlets,S.Geo.	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Kearley, Hudson E.
Bennett, E. N.	Elibank, Master of	Kilbride, Denis
Bowerman, C. W.	Essex, R. W.	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)
Bramsdon, T. A.	Everett, R. Lacey	Laidlaw, Robert
Branch, James	Fenwick, Charles	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Ferens, T. R.	Lambert, George
Brodie, H. C.	Ffrench, Peter	Lamont, Norman
Brooke, Stopford	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)
Bryce, J. Annan	Fuller, John Michael F.	Lehmann, R. C.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Fullerton, Hugh	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Gill, A. H.	Levy, Maurice
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Lewis, John Herbert
Byles, William Pollard	Glover, Thomas	Lough, Thomas
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Goddard, Daniel Ford	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Chance, Fedrick William	Gooch, George Peabody	Lyell, Charles Henry
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Clarke, C. Goddard	Gulland, Hon. W.	Maclean, Donald
Clough, William	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.
Clynes, J. R.	Hall, Fedrick	MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, NE	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald
Cooper, G. J.	Hayden, John Patrick	M'Micking, Major G.
Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, EGrinst'd	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Markham, Arthur Basil	Raphael, Herbert H.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro')	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Meehan, Patrick A.	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	Tomkinson, James
Menzies, Walter	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n	Toulmin, George
Mond, A.	Richardson, A.	Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Montagu, E. S.	Ridsdale, E. A.	Wadsworth, J.
Morse, L. L.	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Walsh, Stephen
Murphy, John	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Walters, John Tudor
Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Robinson, S.	Wardle, George J.
Nussey, Thomas Willans	Rose, Charles Day	Waring, Walter
O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid	Rowlands, J.	Wason, JohnCathcart (Orkney)
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Waterlow, D. S.
O'Dowd, John	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
O'Grady, J.	Scott, A H.(Ashton under Lyne	White, George (Norfolk)
O'Shee, James John	Seely, Major J. B.	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Parker, James (Halifax)	Shackleton, David James	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Partington, Oswald	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Whitehead, Rowland
Paul, Herbert	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Silcock, Thomas Ball	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Pearson, W.H.M. (Suffolk, Eye)	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	Wills, Arthur Walters
Pirie, Duncan V.	Smyth, Thos. F. (Leitrim, S.)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Pollard, Dr.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.	Winfrey, R.
Power, Patrick Joseph	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)	Summerbell, T.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—.
Priestley, W.E.B. (Bradford, E.)	Sutherland, J. E.	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease
Radford, G. H.	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F	Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.)	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)	Nield, Herbert
Ashley, W. W.	Cross, Alexander	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Balcarres, Lord	Dalrymple, Viscount	Roberts, S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Fell, Arthur	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley GeorgeD.
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Haddock, George R.	Starkey, John R
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hamilton, Marquess of	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bull, Sir William James	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Turnour, Viscount
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Helmsley, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Carlile, E. Hildred	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edmd's	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hills, J. W.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	Younger, George
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Lane-Fox, G. R.
Coates, E. Feetham(Lewisham)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Viscount Valentia and Mr Forster.
Courthope, G. Loyd	Morpeth, Viscount

Question put accordingly, "That the Chairman do report Progress; and ask leave to sit again."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 45; Noes, 182. (Division List No. 61.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex F.	Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Cross, Alexander	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall
Ashley, W. W.	Dalrymple, Viscount	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Balcarres, Lord	Fell, Arthur	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley GeorgeD.
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Starkey, John R.
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Haddock, George R.	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hamilton, Marquess of	Turnour, Viscount
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Helmsley, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Bull, Sir William James	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Williams, Col. R, (Dorset, W.)
Carlile, E. Hildred	Hills, J. W.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, A. R.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hunt, Rowland	Younger, George
Cave, George	Lane-Fox, G. R.
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W.	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Viscount Valentia and Mr. Forster.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Morpeth, Viscount
Courthope, G. Loyd	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield
Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.	Nield, Herbert
NOES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Goddard, Daniel Ford	Partington, Oswald
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Gooch, George Peabody	Paul, Herbert
Alden, Percy	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Gulland, John W.	Pearson, W. H. M. (Suffolk, Eye)
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Pirie, Duncan V.
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Hall, Frederick	Pollard, Dr.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Power, Patrick Joseph
Barlow,Percy (Bedford)	Harvey, W. E.(Derbyshire, N. E	Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Centr'l
Barnard, E. B.	Hayden, John Patrick	Priestley, W.E.B. (Bradford, E.
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Radford, G. H.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Hemmerde, Edward George	Raphael, Herbert H.
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.)	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'
Beauchamp, E.	Henry, Charles S.	Redmond, John E. (Waterford
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets,S.Geo.)	Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.)	Richards, T. F. (Wolverham'n
Bennett, E. N.	Higham, John Sharp	Richardson, A.
Bowerman, C. W.	Hobart, Sir Robert	Ridsdale, E. A.
Bramsdon, T. A.	Hogan, Michael	Roberts, Charles H. Lincoln)
Branch, James	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Hudson, Walter	Robinson, S.
Brodie, H.C.	Hyde, Clarendon	Rose, Charles Day
Brooke, Stopford	Johnson, John (Gateshead	Rowlands, J.
Bryce, J. Annan	Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.)	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Jowett, F. W.	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Kearley, Hudson E	Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Kilbride, Denis	Seely, Major J. B.
Byles, William Pollard	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Shackleton, David James
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Laidlaw, Robert	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)
Chance, Frederick William	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Lambert, George	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Clarke, C. Goddard	Lamont, Norman	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Clough, William	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Clynes, J. R.	Lehmann, R. C.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Collins. SirWm. J.(S. Pancras. W	Levy, Maurice	Summerbell, T.
Cooper, G. J.	Lewis, John Herbert	Sutherland, J. E.
Corbett, C. H.(Sussex E. Grinst'd	Lough, Thomas	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Cory, Clifford John	Lyell, Charles Henry	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Cowan, W. H.	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Tomkinson, James
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Maclean, Donald	Toulmin, George
Crean, Eugene	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Crosfield, A. H.	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.	Wadsworth, J.
Dalziel, James Henry	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Walsh, Stephen
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald	Walters, John Tudor
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	M'Micking, Major G.	Wardle, George J.
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Waring, Walter
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Markham, Arthur Basil	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Dunne, MajorE.Martin (Walsall	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)	Waterlow, D. S.
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Meehan, Patrick A.	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Menzies, Walter	White, George (Norfolk)
Elibank, Master of	Mond, A.	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Essex, R. W.	Montagu, E. S.	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Everett, R. Lacey	Morse, L. L.	Whitehead, Rowland
Lenwick, Charles	Murphy, John	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Ferens, T. R.	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n
Ffrench, Peter	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Wills, Arthur Walters
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary, Mid	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Fuller, John Michael F.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Winfrey, R.
Fullerton, Hugh	O'Dowd, John
Gill, A. H.	O'Grady, J.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. HerbertJhn.	O'Shee, James John	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Glover, Thomas	Parker, James (Halifax)

Question, put, and agreed to.

Question again proposed, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said that Clause 4 was practically in the

nature of a new clause. He noticed that there were on the Paper Amendments to earlier clauses and he wished to know if they would be excluded from discussion by the taking of Clause 4 now.

*THE CHAIRMAN

We cannot go back on the clauses of the Bill, but we can go back on the clauses of the Army Annual Act.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

moved to omit the clause, in order to give the right hon. Gentleman an opportunity of explaining its operation. The clause proposed to amend the 43rd section of the Army Annual Act by inserting after the words "to the prescribed General Officer" the words "or in the case of a soldier serving in India to such officer as the Commander-in-Chief of the forces in India with the approval of the Governor-General of India in Council may appoint." His objection to the clause was that it was better, more especially in India, that a private soldier should know exactly to whom he was to apply in case he had a grievance or a complaint to make against anybody. They did not make the matter simpler by making such changes in the Army Act at that hour of the morning, and it would be much better understood by the soldier if the Act remained as it was before. This was more important in a hot climate like India. He appealed to the Secretary of State for War to consider whether he could not dispense with the clause altogether. Unless the right hon. Gentleman was able to give him some satisfactory explanation he hoped the Committee would reject to clause.

MR. HALDANE

explained that the purpose of the clause was to redress a very real grievance which experience had shown that soldiers in India suffered from. In India, where the brigade organisation was used, brigades were often far away from the headquarters of the Army. A general officer was not always accessible. A brigadier had only in the eye of the law a colonel's rank, and it was found necessary in the case of soldiers serving in India to give them the right of making their complaints to such officers. It was to help the soldier and not to hinder him that this provision was being introduced into the Act.

MR. ASHLEY

asked whether it would not be a good thing to extend the provision to South Africa also.

MR. HALDANE

replied in the negative.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said the clause provided the right of appeal to the "prescribed general officer." The definition clause stated that the word "prescribed" meant prescribed by any rules of procedure under the Act. It was, therefore, competent for rules of procedure to be made prescribing the officer to whom the complaints might be addressed. If there was that elasticity existing now, why should they make an exception for India as against all the other territorial forces of the Crown?

MR. HALDANE

said a brigadier was not a general officer. The prescribed officer meant a general officer holding a general officer's rank.

Question put, "That the clause stand part of the Bill.

The Committee proceeded to a Division.

MR. Whiteley

and Mr. Joseph Pease were appointed Tellers for the Ayes, but, no Member being willing to act as Teller for the Noes, the Chairman declared that the Ayes had it.

Clause agreed to.

Clause 5:—

MR. ASHLEY

moved to substitute the word "detention" for the word "imprisonment." He imagined that the right hon. Gentleman would be willing to accept that Amendment.

MR. HALDANE

said that so far as the legal consequences were concerned, it did not very much matter which word was used. He would accept the Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

thought the Committee were entitled to some explanation as to why Section 46, sub-section 6, of the Army Act should be altered. On referring to that sub-section it was found that in certain cases a soldier who was accused had the right to demand, when being tried, that the evidence should be taken on oath. He would have thought that in every case where a soldier was being tried for any crime the evidence should be taken on oath without the prisoner being put to the trouble of demanding that it should be so taken. He thought that the effect of the clause, if passed, would be that whenever an officer had a right to inflict summary punishment upon a soldier, he might take evidence without administering the oath.

MR. HALDANE

said he could assure hon. Members that the effect of the Amendment would be for the benefit of the soldier. At present it was only where a commanding officer had power summarily to impose a sentence which exceeded seven days imprisonment that the accused had a right to demand that the evidence should be taken on oath. The right of the accused to have evidence taken on oath would now apply to all cases.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

suggested that the words "summarily" should be left out altogether.

"THE CHAIRMAN

said that the hon. Member could not propose to amend the clause after the question had been put "that the clause stand part of the Bill."

MR. HALDANE

wished to repeat that the clause as it stood was really in favour of the soldier.

MR. ASHLEY

said he entirely agreed with the right hon. Gentleman. As a company officer he had often to distinguish between evidence given on oath, and that given without the administration of an oath.

Clause 6:—

MR. ASHLEY

moved an Amendment to limit the clause to military and naval prisoners and not to include within its operation, as the Bill proposed, civilians who might happen to be in a prison which was being used as a military prison. For instance, supposing a civilian inadvertently entered one of the ports of the Isle of Wight, he might be taken to the military prison under the clause, and that might be extremely undesirable.

Amendment proposed— In page 3, line 36 to leave out the word other,' and insert the word 'naval.' "—(Mr. Ashley.)

Question proposed, "That the word 'other' stand part of the Clause."

MR. HALDANE

said that the hon. Member was quite right in supposing that the clause would cover naval as well as military prisoners; but it was always possible that they might have to use these military prisons for other prisoners, and he pointed out that the section in the Army Act giving power to the Secretary of State to make rules was for the good administration of the prisons.

MR. ASHLEY

said the right hon. Gentleman had stated that the words were settled by the naval and military authorities, but had he consulted the civilian authorities? What circumstances had happened since last year to make it necessary to bring within the scope of the Bill civilians as well as military and naval prisoners?

LORD BALCARRES

also thought that the point in regard to dealing with civilian prisoners should be considered. The right hon. Gentleman in his Amendment specifically proposed to substitute for the words "military prisoners" the words "military or other prisoners," and he told them that that was to apply the Act to naval prisoners as well as military prisoners. He dared say the naval authorities might be desirous that some such alteration should be made, but as the clause stood it applied to civilians, and he submitted that the right hon. Gentleman had not made out a case for such a course.

MR. HALDANE:

said that if the hon. Gentleman would look at Section 133 of the Army Act he would see that it was made lawful for the Secretary of State in this country and the Governor-General in India to take over an existing prison and declare it to be a military prison. When he did so there might be people in it who were not military prisoners, and the power of making rules given by Section 6 was in the interests of the prisoners who happened to be in the prison. The section did not extend the jurisdiction of the Secretary of State, but it was introduced for the protection of any prisoners, civilian or otherwise, who might be found in the building which was being used or part of which was being used as a military prison.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

thought that they had got some very valuable facts out of the right hon. Gentleman for the first time. He had suspected from the form of words used, "military or other prisoners," that it was intended to include not only naval prisoners but also civilian prisoners, and the right hon. Gentleman had said that that was the case. He did not think, however, that it should fall upon the military authorities, either here or in India, to take charge of civilian prisoners. Were they to understand that this sort of thing had taken place in the past, and that when these civilian prisoners were taken over they would come under military discipline, under the control of the military authorities?

MR. HALDANE

said the power was given to the Secretary of State in this country and the Governor-General in India, but it was not given to the military authorities. It was thought wise that the Secretary of State and the Governor-General should have power to make rules which should apply to civilians who were in a building or part of a building which was being used as a military prison. The power was only given for the protection of the prisoners who happened to be in a prison so taken over, though it was a very unlikely case to arise.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

said the side heading of the section was to the effect that it applied to rules relating to military prisons and prisoners. He understood from that, that it referred to military prisoners only, but now it appeared that they were to understand that civilians would be incarcerated in military prisons.

MR. HALDANE

said the power was given to make rules for the good government of the prison. It was a general power of regulation in the interests of good order, and it was meant to apply to all places which were used as military prisons. It might be that civil prisoners were in portions of the building used as military prisons, and therefore it was desirable to extend the powers of making rules in regard to them.

LORD TURNOUR

said he still wished to know why that was the case. He understood the right hon. Gentleman to say that civilian prisoners might come under the military authorities. He therefore hoped that the Amendment would be divided upon.

MR. HALDANE

said there was nothing in the clause which enabled a civilian to be imprisoned in a building which was used as a military prison. The provision was only put in to provide for the case in which part of the building was used for military prisoners while a part might be used for civilian prisoners. It was to enable rules to be made for the good government of the whole of the people in the prison and was for the protection of the whole of the people there.

LORD BALCARRES

said he must repeat his question. He wanted to know what necessity there was for dealing with civilians in military prisons at all. The words of the section were "military or other prisoners." That covered the case of the naval prisoners clearly, but they now understood that it covered such civilians as might be in the neighbourhood transgressing the law and were put into the gaol. Would the right hon. Gentleman tell the Committee frankly what was the cause for these regulations. Had there been any rising or any undue amount of trespass during the last twelve months? Was there any reason for these provisions? The right hon. Gentleman had not, so far, given a single reason for them.

MR. HALDANE

thought he could explain. A prison might be a civil prison, or it might be a part of a civil prison, or it might be a military prison. If it were part of a public civil prison it was very desirable to have certain rules which could be applied to any military prisoner who might at any time be in that prison. It was in the interest of the prisoners themselves that rules should be made. It was certainly desirable that the Governor-General of India or the Secretary of State should be able to make rules.

MR. ASHLEY

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman suggested that the Governor-General was not able to make rules for his own prisoners. He certainly did not see why the military authority should make rules for and look after civil prisoners. Let the civilian authority look after civilian prisoners and the military authority after the military prisoners.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said the case put before the Committee by the right hon. Gentleman had to his mind proved the case for the Amendment. When they turned to the Act itself they found that the power was to make rules for the regulation of military prisons and for the military prisoners therein. It was not proposed to alter the words "military prisoners," but to make it "military and other prisoners." What the Amendment did was to make it clear that the prison to which these rules should apply was for military and naval prisoners. The right hon. Gentleman said that the military prison might be part of a civil prison, and in that case they desired to make provisions that should apply to the whole building. But if that were the case, and the Act showed that it could only apply to military and naval prisons, it was perfectly clear that it could not apply to the rest of the building. The right hon. Gentleman suggested that there might be other prisoners there. If either by accident or by a wrong act there was a civilian prisoner in the military part of the prison it was suggested that these regulations should apply to him. He appealed to hon. Members to look at the matter intelligently and vote for the Amendment in order to make it quite clear that no civilian should be subjected to any punishment or any regulation whatever except those applicable to civilians.

Captain CRAIG

said that from Section 133 it appeared to be quite possible that a building might be created a prison for temporary purposes, or that a part of a building might be taken, and also that part of a civil prison could be taken as a military prison. It followed that a civil prison might be partly a military prison, and if an unfortunate prisoner found himself inside the right hon. Gentleman's compound he would be subjected to all the pains and penalties of the Army Act, including flogging. If hon. Members carefully followed the Amendment they would see that its real object was to insure that civil prisoners should be immediately handed over to the civil authority and not detained under the regulations of this clause in a military prison. The right hon. Gentleman had been pressed very fairly by several speakers on the Unionist side to explain the more or less vague statement he made in the first instance. The right hon. Gentleman had failed to explain to the Committee why he proposed to impose this harsh treatment on civilians. It was quite true, as had been pointed out, that at times naval and military men might find themselves in military prisons, but no reason for this sweeping change had been given. If the clause as proposed by the Secretary for War were carried, it would lead possibly to far more dangerous practices than would appear from the more or less innocuous words by which it was altered. In the clause as it originally stood, the words "not exceeding twenty-five lashes," and so on, had been struck out, but still one could see what a serious clause it was. It might be that a civilian unwittingly trespassed on some military ground or fortification, and innocently became a prisoner. The Amendment of the right hon. Gentleman created a distinction between two rooms in a fortification. If the civil prisoner remained on the military side of the prison within the fortification his punishment was not to be more severe than it would be in a public prison under the Act of 1879. If the prisoner was transferred to the other or civil side of the prison, they put upon the Army the cost of maintaining him in the first instance. He certainly thought his hon. friend had made out a strong case, and he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would see his way to make the small concession asked for. During the whole time the Bill had been under discussion the right hon. Gentleman had only made one small concession; he hoped, therefore, that in this instance he would give way, where it was not a question of broad principle but one of making the plan of the right hon. Gentleman workable.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

moved to report progress in order to call attention to the absence of the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

THE CHAIRMAN

,being of opinion that the Motion was an abuse of the Rules of the House, declined to propose the Question thereupon to the Committee.

Question put, "That the word 'other' stand part of the Clause."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 171; Noes, 39. (Division List No. 62.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Essex, R. W.	Lyell, Charles Henry
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Everett, R. Lacey	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Alden, Percy	Fenwick, Charles	Maclean, David
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Ferens, T. R.	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Ffrench, Peter	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Fuller, John Michael F.	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Fullerton, Hugh	M'Micking, Major G.
Barnard, E. B.	Gill, A. H.	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Markham, Arthur Basil
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Glover, Thomas	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Goddard, Daniel Ford	Meehan, Patrick A.
Beauchamp, E.	Gooch, George Peabody	Menzies, Walter
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Mond, A.
Bennett, E. N.	Gulland, John W.	Montagu, E. S.
Bowerman, C. W.	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Morse, L. L.
Branch, James	Hall, Frederick	Murphy, John
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Brodie, H. C.	Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N. E.	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Brooke, Stopford	Hayden, John Patrick	O'Brien, Kendal (Tinperary Mid
Bryce, J. Annan	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	O'Dowd, John
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Henry, Charles S.	O'Grady, J.
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.)	O'Shee, James John
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Higham, John Sharp	Parker, James (Halifax)
Chance, Frederick William	Hobart, Sir Robert	Partington, Oswald
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Hogan, Michael	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Clarke, C. Goddard	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	Pearson, W.H.M. (Suffolk, Eye)
Clough, William	Hudson, Walter	Pirie, Duncan V.
Clynes, J. R.	Hyde, Clarendon	Pollard, Dr.
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Price,C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.)	Priestley,W. E.B. (Bradford, E.)
Cooper, G. J.	Jowett, F. W.	Raphael, Herbert H.
Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Gr'st'd	Kearley, Hudson E.	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro')
Cory, Clifford John	Kilbride, Denis	Redmond, John E.(Waterford)
Cowan, W. H.	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Richards, T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n)
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Laidlaw, Robsrt	Richardson, A.
Crean, Eugene	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Ridsdale, E. A.
Crosfield, A. H.	Lambert, George	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Lamont, Norman	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Robinson, S.
Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness)	Lehmann, R. C.	Rose, Charles Day
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich	Rowlands, J.
Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall	Levy, Maurice	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Lewis, John Herbert	Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne)
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Lough, Thomas	Seely, Major J. B.
Elibank, Master of	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Shackleton, David James
Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Toulmin, George	Whitehead, Rowland
Shipman, Dr. John G.	Trevelyan, Charles Philips	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Silcock, Thomas Ball	Wadsworth, J.	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	Walsh, Stephen	Wills, Arthur Walters
Smyth, Thos. F. (Leitrim, S.)	Walters, John Tudor	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)	Wardle, George J.	Winfrey, R.
Summerbell, T.	Waring, Walter
Sutherland, J. E.	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Taylor, John W. (Durham)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease,
Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	White, George (Norfolk)
Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr)	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Tomkinson, James	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Fell, Arthur	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Balcarres, Lord	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Roberts, S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Banner, John S Harmood-	Forster, Henry William	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Haddock, George R.	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley GeorgeD.
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hamilton, Marquess of	Starkey, John R.
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F.W.F.(Bury S. Edm'd	Turnour, Viscount
Cave, George	Hills, J. W.	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W.	Hunt, Rowland	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Coates, E. Feetham(Lewisham)	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Younger, George
Courthope, G. Loyd	Morpeth, Viscount
Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.)	Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Dalrymple, Viscount	Nield, Herbert	Mr.Ashley and Captian Craig.

Question put, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 175; Noes, 40. (Division List No. 63.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Corbett, CH.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Henry, Charles S.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Cory, Clifford John	Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.)
Alden, Percy	Cowan, W. H.	Higham, John Sharp
Allen, A.Acland (Christchurch)	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Hobart, Sir Robert
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Crean, Eugene	Hogan, Michael
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Crosfield, A. H.	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Hudson, Walter
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Davies, W. Howell (Bristol S.)	Hyde, Clarendon
Barnard, E. B.	Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness)	Johnson, John (Gateshead)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall	Jowett, F. W.
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Kearley, Hudson E.
Beauchamp, E.	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Kilbride, Denis
Benn, W.(T'w'r'Hamlets, S. Geo	Elibank, Master of	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)
Bennett, E. N.	Essex, R. W.	Laidlaw, Robert
Bowerman, C. W.	Everett, R. Lacey	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Branch, James	Fenwick, Charles	Lambert, George
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Ferens, T. R.	Lamont, Norman
Brodie, H. C.	Ffrench, Peter	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)
Brooke, Stopford	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Lehmann, R. C.
Bryce, J. Annan	Fuller, John Michael F.	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Fullerton, Hugh	Levy, Maurice
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Gill, A. H.	Lewis, John Herbert
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Lough, Thomas
Byles, William Pollard	Glover, Thomas	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Goddard, Daniel Ford	Lyell, Charles Henry
Chance, Frederick William	Gooch, George Peabody	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	Maclean, Doald
Clarke, C. Goddard	Gulland, John W.	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.
Clough, William	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)
Clynes, J. R.	Hall, Frederick	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Harvey, W.E.(Derbyshire, N. E.	M'Micking, Major G.
Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras W	Hayden, John Patrick	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Cooper, G. J.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Markham, Arthur Basil
Cooper, G. J.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)
Meehan, Patrick A.	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Menzies, Walter	Richards, T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n	Tomkinson, James
Mond, A.	Richardson, A.	Toulmin, George
Montagu, E. S.	Ridsdale, E. A.	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Morrell, Philip	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Wadsworth, J.
Morse, L. L.	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Walsh, Stephen
Murphy, John	Robinson, S.	Walters, John Tudor
Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Rose, Charles Day	Wardle, George J.
Nussey, Thomas Willans	Rowlands, J.	Waring, Walter
O'Brien, Kendal(TipperaryMid	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Wason, John C. (Orkney)
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Scott, A.H.(Ashton underLyne)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
O'Dowd, John	Seely, Major J. B.	White, George (Norfolk)
O'Grady, J.	Shackleton, David James	White, Luke (York, E.R)
O'Shee, James John	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Parker, James (Halifax)	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Whitehead, Rowland
Partington, Oswald	Silcock, Thomas Ball	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	Williams, L. (Carmarthen)
Pearson, W. H. M.(Suffolk, Eye)	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)	Wills, Arthur Walters
Pirie, Duncan V.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph(Chesh.)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Pollard, Dr.	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)	Winfrey, R.
Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)	Summerbell, T.
Priestley, W.E.B. (Bradford, E.)	Sutherland, J. E.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Raphael, Herbert H.	Taylor, John W. (Durham)	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig, Captain James (Down, E.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Ashley, W. W.	Dalrymple, Viscount	Roberts,S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Balcarres, Lord	Fell, Arthur	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley GeorgeD.
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Finch, Rt. Hn. George H.	Starkey, John R.
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Forster, Henry William	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Haddock, George R.	Turnour, Viscount
Bull, Sir William James	Hamilton, Marquess of	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Cirlile, E. Hildred	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edmd's	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hills, J. W.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	Younger, George
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W.	Lane-Fox. G. R.
Coates, E. Feetham(Lewisham)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Morpeth, Viscount	Mr. Watson Rutherford and Viscount Helmsley.
Courthope, G Loyd	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield
Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.)	Nield, Herbert

Clause 7:—

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 173; Noes, 39. (Division List No. 64.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness.
Alden, Percy	Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Byles, William Pollard	Dunne, Maj. E. Martin (Walsall
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Chance, Frederick William	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Elibank, Master of
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Clarke, C. Goddard	Essex, R. W.
Barnard, E. B.	Clough, William	Everett, R. Lacey
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Clynes, J. N.	Fenwick, Charles
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Ferens, T. R.
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth	Ffrench, Peter
Beauchamp, E.	Collins, Sir W. J. (S. PancrasW.)	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace
Benn, W. (T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Cooper, G. J.	Fuller, John Michael F.
Bennett, E. N.	Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Fullerton, Hugh
Bowerman, C. W.	Cowan, W. H.	Gill, A. H.
Branch, James	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Crean, Eugene	Glover, Thomas
Brodie, H. C.	Crosfield, A. H.	Goddard, Daniel Ford
Brooke, Stopford	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Gooch, George Peabody
Bryce, J. Annan	Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)
Gulland, John W.	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald	Scott, A. H. (Ashtonunder Lyne)
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	M'Micking, Major G.	Seely, Major J. B.
Hall, Frederick	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Shackleton, David James
Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Markham, Arthur Basil	Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick B.)
Harvey, W.E. (Derbyshire, N. E.	Meehan, Patrick A.	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Hayden, John Patrick	Menzies, Walter	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Mond, A.	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Montagu,E. S.	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Henry, Charles S.	Morrell, Philip	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph(Chesh.
Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon. S.)	Morse, L. L.	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Higham, John Sharp	Murphy, John	Summerbell, T.
Hobart, Sir Robert	Norton, Captain Cecil William	Sutherland, J. L.
Hogan, Michael	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	O'Brien, Kendal(TipperaryMid.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Hudson, Walter	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)
Johnson, John (Gateshead)	O'Dowd, John	Tomkinson, James
Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)	O'Grady, J.	Toulmin, George
Jowett, F. W.	O'Shee, James John	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Kearley, Hudson E.	Parker, James (Halifax)	Wadsworth, J.
Kilbride, Denis	Partington, Oswald	Walsh, Stephen
King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Walters, John Tudor
Laidlaw, Robert	Pearson, W.H.M. (Suffolk, Eye)	Wardle, George J.
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Pirie, Duncan V.	Waring, Walter
Lambert, George	Pollard, Dr.	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Lamont, Norman	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Priestley, W. E. B. (Bradford, E.	White, George (Norfolk)
Lehmann, R. C.	Raphael, Herbert H.	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Levy, Maurice	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	Whitehead, Rowland
Lewis, John Herbert	Richards, T. F. (Wolverhampt'n	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Lough, Thomas	Richardson, A.	Williams, L. (Carmarthen)
Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Ridsdale, E. A.	Wills, Arthur Walters
Lyell, Charles Henry	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Winfrey, R.
Maclean, Donald	Robinson, S.
MacVeagh Jeremiah(Down, S.)	Rose, Charles Day	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
McVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)	Rowlands, J.	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Fell, Arthur	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Ashley, W. W.	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley GeorgeD.
Balcarres, Lord	Forster, Henry William	Starkey, John R.
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Haddock, George R.	Talbot, Lord E (Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hamilton, Marquess of	Tumour, Viscount
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Williams, Col.D.R.(Dorset, H.)
Cave, George	Hills, J. W.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York,E. R.
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W.	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Younger, George
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Morpeth, Viscount	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Courthope, G. Loyd	Nicholson, W. G. (Petersfield)	Mr. Rowland Hunt and Sir William Bull.
Caig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.)	Nield, Herbert
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Dalrymple, Viscount	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)

Clause 8:—

MR. ASHLEY

moved the omission of the word "meal" in order to substitute the word "meals." Although his Amendment might not appear very important, he believed that it was. In the schedule to the Army Act it was stated that where a prisoner was not provided with candles, vinegar, and other things, he was to be given "a hot meal." The Amendment was necessary to make the clause consistent with the Schedule.

Amendment proposed— In page 4, line 6, to leave out the word 'meal' and insert the words 'meals."—(Mr. Ashley.)

Question proposed, "That the word 'meal' stand part of the Question."

MR. HALDANE

explained that the Amendment was made in the Bill in order to carry out the purpose of the clause, and to enable them when they came to the schedule to distribute meals, a distinction being drawn between hot and cold meals.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said the explanation was a very specious one, as the alteration was inconsistent with other words in the Act where a provision was found to the effect that a soldier should be served with breakfast, dinner, and supper on each day, such meals to consist of such and such quantities of food and drink. It was obvious that it ought to be such "meals," because it was not "meal" in the sense of ground oats. As breakfast, dinner, and supper were included it ought to be "meals." That seemed to him to be a matter of common-sense. It seemed, however, too much to expect common-sense in Parliamentary practice, especially at that time of the day, but he would urge the right hon. Gentlemen as a matter of English grammar to accept the suggestion which was made by this Amendment.

MR. T. L. CORBETT

said the meaning of the Amendment was perfectly clear and obvious, but he thought that it was clear that the Committee was not in a fit condition to go on discussing it. [Ministerial cries of "Speak for yourself!"] He thought hon. and right hon. Gentlemen would do very much better to go home, take a rest and then come back with a fresh mind so that they might be able to appreciate the clear and obvious argument which was now reasonably addressed to them, and make the Bill easy and intelligible, as it ought to be. That was the only object which the supporters of the Amendment had in view.

MR. HALDANE

said the whole confusion had arisen from the hon. Member looking at the second paragraph of the section instead of at the third. If the hon. Member would turn to page 31 in the book which had been furnished to him he would see that that was so.

VISCOUNT VALENTIA (Oxford)

pointed out that the right hon. Gentleman was looking at the memorandum and not at the Bill. At present they were on Clause 8, which dealt with the question of "a hot meal," or a "meal."

MR. HALDANE

invited the noble Lord to look at the third paragraph.

VISCOUNT VALENTIA

said he was looking at the Bill. The right hon. Gentleman referred him to a printed memorandum, not to that paragraph in the Bill itself.

MR. COURTHOPE

thought the right hon. Gentleman was mistaken. It was a small matter, but Clause 8 of the Bill cut out the word "a," when all he wished to cut out was the word "hot."

MR. HALDANE

said that he agreed on that point.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

asked whether in view of the little mistake which had just been exposed, it would not be better, having regard to the danger of a considerable mistake being made during one of the comic interludes of the hon. Member for South Down, to wait until the House was in a fresher and fitter condition to deal with the matter?

*THE CHAIRMAN

Order, order! The hon. Member is not speaking to the Amendment before the House.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

said he was about to ask the Chairman's permission to move that he should report progress and ask leave to sit again.

*THE CHAIRMAN

I cannot accept that. I would merely point out that if the word "a" is to be retained, the hon. Member will have to withdraw his Amendment, and then the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for War can move to substitute the words "a meal" for "a hot meal."

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

The word "a" inserted before "meal."

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

said he did not quite understand the alteration made in the Bill by this clause. He could not see that there was any great difference between the old clause and the new one as amended, and he would be glad if the Secretary of State would point out exactly what the difference was. He should like to take this opportunity of called attention to the fact that during the whole of the debate they had not been honoured with the presence of either the Prime Minister or the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

*THE CHAIRMAN

That is not in order.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

, speaking on a point of order, said the Amendment which had been accepted was to insert the word "a." He understood that the right hon. Gentleman proposed to leave out the word "hot."

*The CHAIRMAN

I have put the Question that the clause as amended stand part of the Bill.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said the word "hot" was still in the Bill.

*THE CHAIRMAN

The word "hot" is taken out.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said he wished to be very respectful to the Chair in raising points of order, but he understood that the phrase in the original Act was "a hot meal," and it had been practically decided by the Committee that the words should be "a meal." Therefore all they wanted was to leave out the word "hot." The word "a" did not want to be added because it was already there.

*THE CHAIRMAN

The hon. Member is confusing two matters which are quite distinct. In line 6 the Committee have agreed to insert before the word "meal" the word "a."

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

said the House had yet had any explanation of what the Amendment really meant.

MR. HALDANE

said the schedule must be read with the clause. If the schedule was looked at the whole thing became plain. It was impossible to understand it without. In future the soldier was to have three meals instead of one. It would not be clear until they reached the schedule.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

, on a point of order, asked whether an opportunity would be given, having regard to the statement of the right hon. Gentleman, to discuss this clause with the schedule; otherwise it was admitted it was impossible to understand it.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said the schedule in question was a schedule of the Army Act.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

No, the schedule referred to is the schedule of this Bill.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said the schedule would come under discussion when it was reached. He did not quite understand what the noble Lord desired. The schedule could be discussed at the proper time and proper Amendments moved.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

said he desired to know whether an opportunity would be given to discuss this clause when the schedule was reached. The Secretary of State had said it was impossible to discuss the clause properly until the schedule was reached.

*THE CHAIRMAN

thought that in a case of this kind hon. Members would be in order when discussing the schedule to refer to this clause.

VISCOUNT VALENTIA

asked, as they were now on the clause and not on the schedule, whether it would not be possible to discuss the schedule now.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said he was sorry the Committee did not appear to understand what he had said. When the schedule came up for discussion the Committee could refer to this clause.

CAPTAIN CRAIG

understood that when they came to the schedule it would be in order to couple with it Clause 8 which was now under discussion. He wished to ask whether now, while all the facts of Clause 8 were present in the mind of the Committee, they could now refer to the schedule so as to discuss it with Clause 8.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said it would not be out of order to refer to the alterations in the schedule if hon. Members desired to do so in the discussion on this clause, but he did not think the schedule ought to be discussed in detail at that point.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

said the original point of order arose from his asking the light hon. Gentleman to explain the clause. The Secretary of State said it was impossible to understand the clause without reading the schedule with it.

Then Mr. Chairman's ruling was that it was not in order to discuss the schedule with the clause. All he desired to know was whether the right hon. Gentleman would give the explanation now or wait until the schedule was discussed.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 173; Noes, 40. (Division List No. 65.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Morse, L. L.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Fuller, John Michael F.	Murphy, John
Alden, Percy	Fullerton, Hugh	Norton, Captain Cecil William
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch	Gill, A. H.	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Glover, Thomas	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Goddard, Daniel Ford	O'Dowd, John
Barnard, E. B.	Gooch, George Peabody	O'Grady, J.
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)	O'Shee, James John
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Gulland, John W.	Parker, James (Halifax
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.)	Haldane, Rt. Hn. Richard B.	Partington, Oswald
Beauchamp, E.	Hall, Frederick	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.)	Harvey, A. G.C. (Rochdale)	Pearson, W.H.M. (Suffolk, Eye)
Bennett, E. N.	Harvey, W.E.(Derbyshire, N. E.	Pirie, Duncan V.
Black, Arthur W.	Hayden, John Patrick	Pollard, Dr.
Bowerman, C. W.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Price,C.(Edinburgh, Central)
Branch, James	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Priestley, W.E.B.(Bradford, E.)
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Henry, Charles S.	Raphael, Herbert H.
Brodie, H. C.	Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.)	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'
Brooke, Stopford	Higham, John Sharp	Redmond, John E. (Waterford
Bryce, J. Annan	Hobart, Sir Robert	Richards, T.F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Hogan, Michael	Richardson, A.
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	Ridsdale, E. A.
Burnyeat, W. S. D.	Hudson, Walter	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas.	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Byles, William Pollard	Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)	Robinson, S.
Garr-Gomm, H. W.	Jowett, F. W.	Rose, Charles Day
Chance, Frederick William	Kearley, Hudson E.	Rowlands, J.
Cherry, Rt. Hn. R. R.	Kilbride, Denis	Samuel,S. M. (Whitechapel)
Clarke, C. Goddard	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne
Clough, William	Laidlaw, Robert	Seely, Major J. B.
Clynes, J. R.	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Shackleton, David James
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Lambert, George	Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick B.)
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Lamont, Norman	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S.Pancras, W.	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Cooper, G. J.	Lehmann, R. C.	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.
Cowan, W. H.	Levy, Maurice	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Lewis, John Herbert	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Crean, Eugene	Lough, Thomas	Summerbell, T.
Croffield, A. H.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Sutherland, J. E.
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Lyell, Charles Henry	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Maclean, Donald	Thomas, DavidAlfred(Merthyr)
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Tomkinson, James
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)	Toulmin, George
Dunne, Maj. E. Martin (Walsall.	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	M'Kenna, Rt. Hn. Reginald	Wadsworth, J.
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	M'Micking, Major G.	Walsh, Stephen
Elibank, Master of	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Walters, John Tudor
Essex, R. W.	Markham, Arthur Basil	Wardle, George J.
Everett, R. Lacey	Menzies, Walter	Waring, Walter
Fenwick, Charles	Mond, A.	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Ferens, T. R	Montagu, E. S.	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Ffrench, Peter	Morrell, Philip	White, George (Norfolk)
White, Luke (York, E. R.)	Williams, Llewelyn (C'rmarth'n	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
White, Patrick (Meath, North)	Wills, Arthur Walters	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Whitehead, Rowland	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)	Winfrey, R.
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Ashley, W. W.	Forster, Henry William	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley GeorgeD.
Balcarres, Lord	Haddock, George R.	Starkey, John R.
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hamilton, Marquess of	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Helmsley, Viscount	Turnour, Viscount
Bull, Sir William James	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Valentia, Viscount
Carlile, E. Hildred	Hills, J. W.	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hunt, Rowland	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Cave, George	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Younger, George
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Morpeth, Viscount
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Courthope, G. Loyd	Nield, Herbert	Mr. Fell and Viscount Dalrymple.
Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.	Roberts, S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)

Question put, and agreed to.

Clause 9:—

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

said he desired to call attention to the method of legislating which this clause illustrated. It repealed the whole of the clause which was in the Bill of last year, referring to the system of detention. That system the right hon. Gentleman at the time had eulogised as one which was likely to do a considerable amount of good so far as military prisons were concerned. It was, therefore, very important, before the clause was passed, that they should have some explanation from the right hon. Gentleman as to the reasons which had led him to repeal Section 135a, which was passed in only last year's Army Act. He imagined that the right hon. Gentleman, after his strong speech last year in support of that very section, must have equally strong reasons now for repealing it.

MR. HALDANE

said Section 135a had not been in reality repealed, and it was still in the Bill in another form, because every bit of it had been woven into the schedules.

LORD BALCARRES

observed that the section was no longer in place because it was so carelessly drafted that after twelve months' experience the right hon. Gentleman had been obliged to withdraw it.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

said he was bound to say that it was a most slipshod way of legislating. There was no explanation of the clause at all in the memorandum.

MR. HALDANE

Yes, it is explained.

MR. CAVE

said the memorandum stated that— The Amendments made under Section 9 of the Bill are of a purely drafting and verbal character. It was impossible to follow all the very elaborate changes in the schedule in the Bill itself. Could the right hon. Gentleman give the Committee an assurance that no changes proposed to be made in the schedule were of a really substantial character? As regarded Section 2 of Clause 9 it repealed Section 135a of the Army Act, and that was a very important matter, because it dealt with the detention of prisoners before trial. Could the right hon. Gentleman give shortly to the Committee the effect of the changes made by Section 9?

MR. HALDANE

said that last year detention was substituted for imprisonment in the case of all minor offences, and in that way the soldier's record was made a better one. The object of Clause 9 was simply to make the detailed amendments in the Army Act necessary to give effect to last year's changes. They were all drafting Amendments which introduced nothing beyond what was proposed last year. He was not sure whether the hon. and learned Member was aware that under the Army Annual Act there was a clause which compelled the reprinting of the Army Annual Act from time to time together with the Amendments. That was a statutory obligation. It would be placed in the Library this year as soon as they got it into shape.

MR. CAVE

said that on page 9 of the Bill there was a long Clause printed to be substituted for Section 63. Was there any substantial change in the new form of the Clause as compared with the old section.

MR. HALDANE

No. It is a change only in form, not in substance.

CAPTAIN CRAIG

thanked the right hon. Gentleman for the explanation he had given, because it was exceedingly difficult to find out whether there had been any substantial change or not. He was inclined to think that as the Clause had become so well known in the ranks of the Army the right hon. Gentleman would be running a great risk of placing more upon the officers than they would be able to comprehend by making these constant changes in the Act. The Secretary of State for War came before the Committee, and in order to enable him to carry out his general scheme he asked them to reverse in every particular what he so vehemently urged them last year to adopt. Those who had any experience in dealing with the intricacies of the Army Act would appreciate what he had said. The new Clause was not so clearly expressed as the old one.

MR. COURTHOPE

said there was no provision made for dealing with a person whom the commanding officer had sentenced to imprisonment. He thought that was a material omission. He suggested that words should be introduced in order to make that matter clear.

*MR. MEYSEY-THOMPSON (Staffordshire, Handsworth)

understood that the right hon. Gentleman intended to substitute "detention" for "imprisonment" and that the fact of a soldier having undergone "detention" would not be mentioned in his discharge. He thought it would be very hard that soldiers who had already been discharged should be placed at a disadvantage as compared with soldiers who would be discharged in future in consequence of this Amendment. There was great difficulty at present in obtaining employment in civil life for old soldiers, but this change would increase it, by destroying the confidence of the public in the accuracy and honesty of the discharge.

*THE CHAIRMAN

I do not see how this arises on the Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

said the Royal Commission on the employment of reserve soldiers and sailors reported that the present system of marking on soldiers' discharges the amount of imprisonment they had undergone, and the bad conduct marks they had had during their term of service, was not a good one. He wished to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether the new system of "detention" which had had a year's trial had been approved by general officers in charge of districts and other soldiers holding high rank, and also whether the working of it had been beneficial to the discipline of the Army. Was the use of the word "detention" in the case of soldiers who competed for employment in civil life with other soldiers who had actually undergone terms of "imprisonment" likely to place the latter at a disadvantage?

MR. CARLILE

appealed to the right hon. Gentleman to answer the Questions which had been addressed to him as to the effect of substituting the word "detention" for the word "imprisonment." Although a different word was employed, the punishment would, in many cases, be identical. He asked for an assurance that soldiers whose defaulter sheets bore the word "imprisonment" would not be placed at a disadvantage as compared with those whose defaulter sheets contained the word "detention." His object was to secure that the word "detention" instead of "imprisonment" should be inserted in the defaulter sheet of soldiers who had served with the colours and been discharged long ago. Otherwise, one man might have a defaulting sheet with the word "detained" in it and another man who had been guilty of the same offence might have his defaulter's sheet marked "imprisoned."

MR. HALDANE

said that he would be glad to consider if anything could be done to place those soldiers whose defaulter sheets were marked with "imprisonment," in as favourable a position as regarded civil employment on leaving the service as those soldiers who, for the same military crime, had their defaulter's sheet marked under the new system with "detention."

MR. CARLILE

was sorry that the right hon. Gentleman could not give a further assurance than he had done.

Clause 10:—

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

moved the omission of the proviso regarding punishments, which he thought was very badly worded. He was not in favour in any way of inflicting the punishment of flogging, and he was glad that it had been abolished in the Army. But he objected to the principle which allowed the Secretary of State to make rules as to the punishments which should be inflicted in the field; and he thought that the words "such field punishments shall be of personal restraint, or hard labour, but shall not be of a nature to cause injury to life or limb," were a most unjustifiable reflection on the disciplinary system of the Army. He had yet to learn that officers in the British Army ever gave a punishment which would cause injury to life or limb, and he hopod that the right hon. Gentleman would see his way to repeal those words. The first question he had to ask was whether the Secretary of State for War should be permitted to interfere as to arrangements connected with active service at all, and whether they should not be left to the general officer commanding in the field. The second question, which was equally important, was whether the authority should be given to the Secretary of State. It seemed to him that that was a question for Parliament to settle and not for the Secretary of State. On the whole he would prefer that the matter were left to the discretion of the officers in the field, provided that proper rules were drawn up by the House. He had the greatest confidence in the right hon. Gentleman's sense of justice and his ability to devise rules for the Army or any other institution. Still there must be some safeguard, and he did not think the War Office should be the authority entrusted with the duty. The Bill left the question in slipshod fashion, where it had been for 200 years.

Amendment proposed— In page 4, line 16, to leave out sub-section (a)."—(Viscount Turnour.)

Question proposed, "That sub-section (a) stand part of the clause."

MR. ASHLEY

directed the attention of the Committee to the serious change made by this sub-section. The old sub-section was to the effect that where a soldier on active service was guilty of an aggravated offence of drunkenness or disgraceful conduct, or an offence punishable by death or imprisonment certain consequences should follow. But this sub-section said that where a soldier on active service was guilty of "any" offence it should be lawful for a court-martial to award for that offence such field punishment other than flogging, as might be directed by rules to be made from time to time by a Secretary of State, and that such field punishment should be of the character of personal restraint or of hard labour, but should not be of a nature to cause injury to life or limb. He honestly confessed that at that hour in the morning he was not in a condition to decide whether such a change was or was not desirable. On these grounds he moved that progress should be reported.

*THE CHAIRMAN

I am quite willing to accept, any Motion to report progress when we have settled this point, but I do not like to break into the middle of a discussion.

MR. HALDANE

said the new subsection was framed to carry out the point which he explained on the Second Reading discussion. The object of the change was to enable men to be dealt with at the front instead of being sent back to the base. Under the old system a man when he committed an offence got sent back to the base, and hon. Members knew that soldiers committed offences in order to be sent back to the base and relieved from irksome duties. Under this provision they had taken power to define that the punishment should not involve injury to life or limb, and that the rules should be laid before Parliament. Rules could be made which were much less clumsy than an Act of Parliament, and they would, under the proposals of this Bill, come under the consideration of some of the best authorities and also of Parliament.

LORD BALCARRES

said that no doubt, as the right hon. Gentleman had stated, these rules would be laid on the Table and would be amended from time to time. He wished to know, however, whether any discretion was to be given to the officer on the spot to vary the rules or whether they would always have to come before the House. It seemed to him rather a roundabout system that the rules should be laid on the Table, and then taken as adopted. Rules which would apply in Liberia in West Africa would be different from those which should apply in Egypt or the southern portion of Africa, and the proceeding would be an excessively cumbrous one, especially for the officer at the front. He wished to know what the term "field punishment" implied, and whether it was dangerous to life and limb.

MR. HALDANE

said that in the old days punishments were inflicted which were dangerous to life and limb, but the present provisions would prevent that.

LORD BALCARRES

thought the matter should be made quite clear. What were the punishments which required these safeguarding words. The words in the Bill did not make the matter very clear.

*MR. CAVE

said the Committee would not be surprised that hon. Members took a greater interest in this clause, affecting as it did the punishment of the men, than in any other clause in the Bill. It pro- posed a very serious change in the law. To begin with, the power to give summary punishment was extended to all offences; it was not confined as it originally was to the three serious offences, and it applied not only to men at the front, but to men on active service, which was a very different thing. In the next place, the saving words at the end were omitted. Those words were that this summary punishment should not be inflicted where the officer was of opinion that the punishment of imprisonment could be resorted to. There were many circumstances under which men on active service could be punished by imprisonment. Why was that saving clause omitted from the Bill when it appeared in the existing Act? Having regard to all these things he had some difficulty in deciding on the clause at the moment, and he thought the Committee should see a draft of the rules and know what the field punishments were to be, and what crimes were to be punished by the process. In discussing Bills to be governed by rules, it was always a great assistance to the Committee to see the rules before the Bill was passed.

MR. LANE-FOX

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman had not created a new term in "field punishments." Was there any actual difference between "field punishments" and "summary-punishments"? If not he thought they should adhere the old terminology, rather than create a new term.

MR. HALDANE

said there was very little difference between the two. There might not be a prison in which to confine a man, and he might be punished severely for minor offences. It was because the Government desired that there should be no abuse of power that they made the provision as to rules. Hon. Gentlemen would notice that the Act could not come into force before July, and he would be pleased to push on the framing of the rules so that they might be laid on the Table of the House before that time.

CAPTAIN CRAIG

said that Clause 10 was the most important clause in the whole Bill, and the points that had been touched upon were only those contained in sub-section 5. In the subsequent sub-sections there were other matters of still greater importance which they desired to discuss as soon a this Amendment was disposed of.

*MR. MEYSEY-THOMPSON

regarded with apprehension the question of giving power to punish in the way proposed. He thought it was unfortunate that the power should not have been left with the commander in the field. British generals were very careful to avoid inflicting punishment, unless there was grave necessity for it. The power of inflicting punishment in the field often obviated the necessity for it and a general officer would be more likely to send a man back to the base than inflict the extreme punishment in the field. He could not see the advantage of taking the matter out of the hands of the commander in the field.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

said it seemed to him that the whole idea was to discourage the sending of the criminals back to the base. Supposing an officer was unfortunate enough to have a number of troublesome characters at the front, the best thing that could be done would be to send them to the base, because nobody could suggest that the maintainence of such characters at the front would improve the morale of the troops. Surely it would be possible, instead of putting the men in prison, to punish them by giving them fatigue or other duties whereby they would not be encouraged to stay at the base any longer than they could help. He supposed the right hon. Gentleman had consulted his military advisers on the point, but it seemed to him to be one of considerable magnitude, and he would be glad to receive an assurance that it was the opinion of the military advisers that this policy would be of advantage to the officers concerned. The right hon. Gentleman had not answered the question as to what was the object of creating the new term "field punishment" instead of "summary punishment."

CAPTAIN CRAIG

said the right hon. Gentleman had stated that it was his intention to lay before the House some of the rules to which attention had been drawn. If they passed the Bill as it stood, or with the Amendments which the right hon. Gentleman had on the Paper, the present rules and regula- tions affecting punishments would still be in existence. Therefore, supposing that the Bill passed with all the Amendments which the right hon. Gentleman had down, and that the War Office was not able to draw up a complete set of rules as regarded field punishment, they must take it that the "field punishment" was that referred to in the clause under discussion. He was sorry that an adjournment of the debate had not been allowed, so that they might have had time to study the matter, because when they came to consider the clause, and the serious punishments imposed, he did not think a single Member could appreciate how far it extended. It seemed to him that the clause was rather more severe than the existing rules. He would like the right hon. Gentleman to put in the rules some provision which would save the soldiers from the humiliation of being punished before natives. The right hon. Gentleman was now taking away the safeguards they had before and substituting a new clause which allowed to come under the clause crimes which before did not fall under it. They were very anxious to do full justice to the serious questions now under discussion, and he thought that would be a justification for granting the Motion to report progress which would be moved in a few minutes.

MAJOR COATES

thought those hon. Members who had listened to the discussion would agree that it had been a serious one. They were discussing some very grave powers which it was proposed to give under the new clauses. He had not noticed the raising of any points which could be regarded as obstruction. Great powers in regard to punishments were being asked for to be exercised by officers serving in the field, and consequently they were justified in seeing that full justice was done to the private soldier. Surely a word ought to be said for that soldier himself, and the protection he ought to receive from Parliament. He noticed that the right hon. Gentleman had not retained the last three lines of the old clause, which read— And shall not be inflicted where the confirming officer is of opinion that imprisonment can with due regard to the public service be carried into execution. He would like to see those lines maintained because they constituted a valuable protection to the private soldier. When there was a court-martial in the field they might adminster quick justice in hot blood which might not be the kind of justice they would give to men in this country. He urged, therefore, that those words should be retained.

LORD R. CECIL

said the main effect of the alteration was to strike out the alternative of imprisonment. He understood that the right hon. Gentleman had not given to the Committee the reason for omitting that as an alternative. He saw the hon. and gallant; Member for Abercromby in his place, and he thought he would agree that it was very desirable that where they could imprison the soldier they should not be compelled to send him to the base.

MR. HALDANE

said the very idea of field punishment was to put an end to skulking. There were people who skulked. If they were sentenced to imprisonment they were taken out of the ranks. It was in order to avoid that that the alteration had been made. The court-martial could still imprison if it thought proper. It was desired that field punishment should as far as possible be the rule and not the exception, so that there would be less temptation for the skulker to attempt to skulk.

MR. CARLILE

said he could not agree with his noble friend in thinking that it was desirable to retain the present system of sending military criminals to the base to be dealt with. The proposal in the Bill was a distinct improvement. If a man who had been guilty of a military offence had to be sent to the base, he had not only to be taken out of the ranks himself, but he had to be accompanied to the base by another man. If the defaulter were retained at the front, he might have an opportunity of wiping the stain from his character.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

expressed the hope that the right hon. Gentleman would reply to the point which had been raised by the noble Lord the Member for East Marylebone.

MR. BYLES (Salford, N.)

said the Secretary of State had power to make rules from time to time. He understood that the rules would be laid on the Table of the House so that they might know what they were. They should have an opportunity of judging whether the rules were humane or not.

MR. HALDANE

said he hoped to be able to lay the rules on the Table at an early date.

Amendment negatived.

MR. CAVE (Surrey, Kingston)

moved to report progress. The Committee had now come to the clause which he thought was the most important of all, and it ought to be discussed at a time when they were fully awake and able to deal with it.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress; and ask leave to sit again."—(Mr. Cave.)

MR. HALDANE

said he would be very glad to meet the convenience of hon. Gentlemen opposite, and of himself, but the necessity of passing the Bill was pressing. There was the Report Stage to come, and the other House had to be considered; and with the Easter holidays so near, he felt that he must have the Committee Stage finished at that sitting. He had put down an Amendment to meet the question of flogging which had been raised on the Second Reading, and there were very few other points of substance remaining. He thought that if the Committee allowed him to get the Bill through at that sitting they would agree on reflection that they had done the right thing.

MR. FORSTER

hoped the right hon. Gentleman would reconsider his decision. He could not understand why he insisted on pressing the Committee Stage of the Bill that day. The date on which the Bill must become law was April 30th, and there were three Parliamentary weeks after the Easter recess in which it could be discussed. There were a considerable number of clauses raising points of substance which could not be properly dealt with after such a prolonged sitting, and he thought that the right hon. Gentlemen should consent to the adjournment.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

said that the right hon. Gentleman earlier in the evening told the Committee that he regretted that this Bill had been used more or less as a fighting ground by both Parties in the House. He would suggest to the right hon. Gentleman that if he wished, in the sessions to come, the Army Bill to go easily through the House, it would be by agreeing to the Motion proposed by his hon. friend. If the right hon. Gentleman was depending on the relays he was bringing down to the House, which he understood had been arranged for, he was making a grossly unfair use of his Parliamentary majority; and it would be the duty of the Opposition to continue sitting until the Bill had been thoroughly discussed to the end. Not a moment more time had been taken in these discussions than was absolutely necessary, and he was astonished that hon. Members opposite could not keep awake so as to discuss such serious questions as punishments in the Army. If the right hon. 'Gentleman was sincere in his desire to facilitate the passage of the Bill in the future he would consent to the Motion.

LORD R. CECIL

said he could not help hoping that the Government would consent to the Motion. It was not a matter of his own personal convenience at all; he had been detained from the House on urgent private business, but he was now altogether free for the day. ("An Hon. Member: No briefs to-day!] He thought that such proceedings were really a scandal to Parliament and an outrage on legislation. He did not believe that in years to come many people would credit the fact that the greatest example of Parliamentary Government in the world could conduct its business in the way it was doing. He would recall to the Committee what had actually occurred. There was under consideration a Bill of great importance dealing with the government of the Army for a whole year and containing a very drastic code. That, owing to an unfortunate misunderstanding for which those on the Front Government Bench were responsible, had been brought on for discussion at two or three o'clock in the morning, when it was impossible for them to consider it owing to the disorderly interruption of Ministerialists and the raucous laughter of hon. Gentlemen opposite. These indications and the appearance of the Secretary of State for War himself showed that the Committee was not really in a condition to discuss and deliberate upon the Bill. They desired to deal fairly with the Secretary of State for War, and they deeply regretted that owing to the extraordinary proceedings of some of his colleagues he had been compelled to discuss the Bill in that way, and at that time of day. [Ministerialcries of "Obstruction!"] It was not a question of obstruction at all. The Bill was brought on at two o'clock in the morning, and it was conceded that it could not be discussed in the time which was given to it. [An Hon. Member: Seven hours.] What sort of hours? Every impartial man knew that discussions carried on under the conditions which had prevailed that night were not discussions at all. The last time there was an all-night sitting the House was not released till the Prime Minister had had his breakfast. He wished to ask whether the Prime Minister could not be induced to have his breakfast now, and to come down to the House and release it from its extraordinary position. The Secretary for War said he did not mind; but they knew he did mind. The energies he could devote to the service of his country after an all-night sitting were not worth having. The Committee would be well advised to accept the Motion, which would commend itself to all hon. Members able to form an impartial and sober judgment. [Cries of "Order!"]

MR. FIENNES (Oxfordshire, Banbury)

interposing, asked whether, as the noble Lord had not been present during the whole of the proceedings, he was a capable judge as to whether hon. Members were sober or not.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said that was not a point of order. He did not take the word "sober," in the sense in which it was used by the noble Lord, as conveying any reproach.

LORD R. CECIL

, who spoke amidst great interruption, in conclusion said he regarded the proceedings as a scandal and disgrace. [Ministerial cries of "Oh"!] Hon. Members opposite were not capable of discussing a serious subject seriously. [Cries of "Oh!"] He appealed very strongly to the Committee to accept the Motion, and he was sure that in their quieter moments they would agree with his description of the proceedings.

MR. HALDANE

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put.

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 197; Noes, 37. (Division List, No. 66.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Morse, L. L.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Fuller, John Michael F.	Murphy, John
Alden, Percy	Fullerton, Hugh	Murray, James
Allen, A.Acland (Christchurch)	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Nicholson, Charles N. (Doncast'r
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Gill, A. H.	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Glover, Thomas	Nuttall, Harry
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Goddard, Daniel Ford	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid
Barker, John	Gooch, George Peabody	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Gulland, John W.	O'Dowd, John
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Grady, J.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	O'Shee, James John
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Hall, Frederick	Parker, James (Halifax
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Harcourt, Right Hon. Lewis	Partington, Oswald
Bennett, E. N.	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Bethell, Sir J. H.(Essex, Romford	Harvey, W.E.(Derbyshire, N.E.	Pearce, William (Limehouse)
Black, Arthur W.	Harwood, George	Pearson, W.H.M. (Suffolk, Eye)
Bowerman, C. W.	Hayden, John Patrick	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)
Branch, James	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Pirie, Duncan V.
Brigg, John	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Pollard, Dr.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Henry, Charles S.	Price,C. E.(Edinburgh, Central)
Brooke, Stopford	Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.)	Pullar, Sir Robert
Bryce, J. Annan	Higham, John Sharp	Raphael, Herbert H.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Hobart, Sir Robert	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Hogan, Michael	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro')
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Holden, E. Hopkinson	Redmond, John E.(Waterford)
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Hooper, A. G.	Rees, J. D.
Byles, William Pollard	Hudson, Walter	Richards, T.F.(Wolverh'mpt'n)
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Idris, T. H. W	Richardson, A.
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Isaacs, Rufus Daniel	Ridsdale, E. A.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Clarke, C. Goddard	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Clough, William	Jowett, F. W.	Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'd
Clynes, J. R.	Kearley, Hudson E.	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)	Kilbride, Denis	Robinson, S.
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Roe, Sir Thomas
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Rose, Charles Day
Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E. Grimt'd	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Rowlands, J.
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Lambert, George	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Crean, Eugene	Lamont, Norman	Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne
Crosfield, A. H.	Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich	Seaverns, J. H.
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Lever, W.H. (Cheshire, Wirral)	Seely, Major J. B.
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Levy, Maurice	Shackleton, David James
Davies, Timothy, (Fulham)	Lough, Thomas	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol,S.)	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.
Dewar, John A.(Inverness-sh.)	Lyell, Charles Henry	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall	Maclean, Donald	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.	Strachey, Sir Edward
Elibank, Master of	M'Callum, John M.	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Essex, R. W.	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Summerbell, T.
Everett, R. Lacey	M'Micking, Major G.	Sutherland, J. E.
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Fenwick, Chrles	Markham, Arthur Basil	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Ferens, T. R.	Marnham, F. J.	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Ffrench, Peter	Morrell, Philip	Thomasson, Franklin
Tomkinson, James	Wardle, George J.	Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n
Toulmin, James	Waring, Walter	Wills, Arthur Walters
Trevelyan, Charles Philips	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Verney, F. W.	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Wadsworth, J.	White, George (Norfolk)	Winfrey, R.
Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Walsh, Stephen	White, Patrick (Meath, North)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Walters, John Tudor	Whitehead, Rowland	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig,Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.)	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Ashley, W. W.	Craig, Captain James(Down, E.)	Roberts, S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Balcarres, Lord	Dalrymple, Viscount	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Starkey, John R.
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Haddock, George R.	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bull, Sir William James	Hamilton, Marquess of	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	Younger, George
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W.	Lane-Fox, G. R.
Cecil, Lord R, (Marylebone, E.)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—.
Coates, E. Feltham (Lewisham)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Viscount Valentia and Mr. Forster
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield)
Courthope, G. Loyd	Nield, Herbert

Question put accordingly.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 36; Noes, 205. (Division List, No. 67.)

AYES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.)	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Ashley, W. W.	Craig, Captain James(Down, E.)	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall
Balcarres, Lord	Dalrymple, Viscount.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Starkey, John R.
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Haddock, George R.	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bull, Sir William James	Hamilton, Marquess of	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury SEdm'd's	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	Younger, George
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Lane-Fox, G. R.
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Viscount Valentia and Mr. Forster.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield
Courthope, G. Loyd	Nield, Herbert
NOES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Brooke, Stopford	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Bryce, J. Annan	Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)
Alden, Percy	Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Dobson, Thomas W.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Duckworth, James
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Byles, William Pollard	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight	Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall
Barker, John	Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Clarke, C. Goddard	Elibank, Master of
Barry, E. (Cork S.)	Clough, William	Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.	Clynes, J. R.	Essex, R. W.
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew W.)	Esslemont, George Birnie
Bennett, E. N.	Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Everett, R. Lacey
Bethell, SiR J.H.(Essex, R'mf'rd	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Faber, G. H. (Boston)
Black, Arthur W.	Corbett, C. H(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Fenwick, Charles
Bowerman, C. W.	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth	Ferens, T. R.
Branch, James	Crean, Eugene	Ffrench, Peter
Brigg, John	Crosfield, A. H.	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace
Bright, J. A.	Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Fuller, John Michael F.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Fullerton, Hugh
Gibb, James (Harrow)	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.	Seaverns, J. H.
Gill, A. H.	M'Callum, John M.	Seely, Major J. B.
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Shackleton, David James
Glover, Thomas	M'Micking, Major G.	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford.
Goddard, Daniel Ford	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.
Gooch, George Peabody	Markham, Arthur Basil	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Gulland, John W.	Marnham, F. J.	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	Morrell, Philip	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Haldane, Rt. Hn. Richard B.	Morse, L. L.	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Hall, Frederick	Murphy, John	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.
Harcourt, Right Hon. Lewis	Murray, James	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.
Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Nicholson, CharlesN.(Donc'st'r	Strachey, Sir Edward
Harvey,W.E.(Derbyshire, N.E.	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Harwood, George	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Hayden, John Patrick	Nuttall, Harry	Summerbell, T.
Hazel, Dr. A. E.	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid	Sutherland, J. E.
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Henry, Charles S.	O'Dowd, John	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.	O'Grady, J.	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Higham, John Sharp	O'Shee, James John	Thomasson, Franklin
Hobart, Sir Robert	Parker, James (Halifax)	Tomkinson, James
Hogan, Michael	Partington, Oswald	Toulmin, George
Holden, E. Hopkinson	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Hooper, A. G.	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Verney, F. W.
Hudson, Walter	Pearson, W. H. M. (Suffolk,Eye	Wadsworth, J.
Idris, T. H. W.	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Isaacs, Rufus Daniel	Pirie, Duncan V.	Walsh, Stephen
Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Pollard, Dr.	Walters, John Tudor
Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Jowett, F. W.	Pullar, Sir Robert	Wardle, George J.
Kearley, Hudson E.	Raphael, Herbert H.	Waring, Walter
Kilbride, Denis	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Rea, Walter Russell)Scarboro'	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Redmond, John E. (Waterford	White, George (Norfolk)
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Rees, J. D.	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Lambert, George	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mp'n	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Lamont, Norman	Richardson, A.	Whitehead, Rowland
Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)	Ridsdale, E. A.	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n
Levy, Maurice	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Williamson, A.
Lewis, John Herbert	Robertson, Sir G.Scott (Br'df'd	Wills, Arthur Walters
Lough, Thomas	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Robinson. S	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Lyell, Charles Henry	Roe, Sir Thomas	Winfrey, R.
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Rose, Charles Day
Mackarness, Frederic C.	Rowlands, J.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Maclean, Donald	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Scott, A. H. (Ashton underline

MR. HALDANE

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question 'That the words of the Clause to the end of page 6, line 7, stand part of the Clause,' be now put."

Motion made and Question put, "That the Question 'That the words of the Clause to the end of pace 6, line 7, stand part of the Clause', be now put."

The Committee divided.—Ayes, 204; Noes, 37. (Division List, No. 68.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Brocklehurst, W. B.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.	Brooke, Stopford
Alden, Percy	Benn, W. (T'w'rHamlets, S. Geo.	Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch	Bennett, E. N.	Burns, Rt. Hon. John
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Bethell, Sir J.H. (Essex, Romf'd	Burnyeat, W. J. D.
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Billson, Alfred	Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.	Black, Arthur W.	Carr-Gomm, H. W.
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Boulton, A. C. F.	Channing, Sir Francis Allston
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight	Bowerman, C. W.	Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.
Barker, John	Branch, James	Clough, William
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Brigg, John	Clynes, J. R.
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Bright, J. A.	Coats, Sit T. Glen (Renfrew, W.
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Kearley, Hudson, E.	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Kilbride, Denis	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Corbett, C. H.(Susse, E. Grinst'd	Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Robertson, Sir G.Scott (Br'df'rd
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Crean, Eugene	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Robinson, S.
Crosfield, A. H.	Lambert, George	Roe, Sir Thomas
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Lamont, Norman	Rose, Charles Day
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan)	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich	Rowlands, J.
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Levy, Maurice	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Lewis, John Herbert	Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne-
Dobson, Thomas W.	Lough, Thomas	Seaverns, J. H.
Duckworth, James	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Seely, Major J. B.
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Lyell, Charles Henry	Shackleton, David James
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Macdonald, J. P. (Leicester)	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.
Edwards, Frank (Radnor	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Elibank, Master of	Maclean, Donald	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Essex, R. W.	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Esslemont, George Birnie	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.
Everett, R. Lacey	M'Callum, John M.	Strachey, Sir Edward
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Fenwick, Charles	M'Micking, Major G.	Summerbell, T.
Ferens, T. R.	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Sutherland, J. E.
Ffrench, Peter	Markham, Arthur Basil	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Marnham, F. J.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Massie, J.	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Fuller, John Michael F.	Morrell, Philip	Thomasson, Franklin
Fullerton, Hugh	Morse, L. L.	Tomkinson, James
Gibb, James (Harrow)	Murphy, John	Toulmin, George
Gill, A. H.	Murray, James	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Nicholson, Charles N.(Donc'st'r	Verney, F. W.
Glover, Thomas	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Wadsworth, J.
Goddard, Daniel Ford	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Gulland, John W.	Nuttall, Harry	Walsh, Stephen
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary, Mid	Walters, John Tudor
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis	O'Dowd, John	Wardle, George J.
Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	O'Grady, J.	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Harvey, W.E. (Derbyshire, N. E	O'Shee, James John	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
Harwood, George	Parker, James (Halifax)	White, George (Norfolk)
Hayden, John Patrick	Partington, Oswald	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Whitehead, Rowland
Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.	Pearson, W.H.M.(Suffolk, Eye)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n
Higham, John Sharp	Pollard, Dr.	Williamson, A.
Hobart, Sir Robert	Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central	Wills, Arthur Walters
Hogan, Michael	Pullar, Sir Robert	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Holden, E. Hopkinson	Raphael, Herbert H.	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Hooper, A. G.	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Winfrey, R.
Hudson, Walter	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'
Idris, T. H. W.	Redmond, John E. (Waterford	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Isaacs, Rufus Daniel	Rees, J. D.	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mp'n
Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Richardson, A.
Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.	Ridsdale, E. A.
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Hervey, F. W. F. (Bury S.Edm's
Ashley, W. W.	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Hunt, Rowland
Balcarres, Lord	Courthope, G. Loyd	Lane-Fox, G. R.
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Craig,Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Craig, Captain James (Down, E.	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Bull, Sir William James	Dalrymple, Viscount	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield
Byles, William Pollard	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Nield, Herbert
Carlile E. Hildred	Haddock, George R.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hamilton, Marquess of	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Helmsley, Viscount	Starkey, John R.
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.
Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Turnour, Viscount	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)	Viscount Valentia and Mr. Forster.
Walrond, Hon. Lionel	Younger, George

Question put accordingly.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 211; Noes, 40. (Division List No. 69.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Marnham, F. J.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Massie, J.
Alden, Percy	Fuller, John Michael F.	Morrell, Philip
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Fullerton, Hugh	Morse, L. L.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Murphy, John
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Gill, A. H.	Murray, James
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Nicholson, Charles N. (Donc'r)
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Glover, Thomas	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Goddard, Daniel Ford	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Barker, John	Gooch, George Peabody	Nuttall, Harry
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary, Mid
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Gulland, John W.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Dowd, John
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	O'Grady, J.
Benn, W.(T'w'rH'mlets, S. Geo.	Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis	O'Shee, James John
Bennett, E. N.	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Parker, James (Halifax)
Bethell, Sir J.H. (Essex. R'mf'rd	Harvey,W.E.(Derbyshire, N.E.	Partington, Oswald
Billson, Alfred	Harwood, George	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Black, Arthur W.	Hayden, John Patrick	Pearce, William (Limehouse)
Boulton, A. C. F.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Pearson, W. H. M. (Suttolk, Eye)
Bowerman, C. W.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)
Brigg, John	Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.	Pirie, Duncan V.
Bright, J. A.	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe	Pollard, Dr.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Higham, John Sharp	Price,C. E. (Edinburgh, Centr'l
Brooke, Stopford	Hobart, Sir Robert	Pullar, Sir Robert
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Hogan, Michael	Raphael, Herbert H.
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Holden, E. Hopkinson	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Hooper, A. G.	Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro')
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Hudson, Walter	Redmond, John E. (Waterford
Byles, William Pollard	Idris, T. H. W.	Rees, J. D.
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Isaacs, Rufus Daniel	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Richardson, A.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Ridsdale, E. A.
Clough, William	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Clynes, J. R.	Jowett, F. W.	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Coats, Sir T.Glen (Renfrew, W.	Kearley, Hudson E.	Robertson, Sir G., Scott(Bradf'rd
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Kilbride, Denis	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Robinson, S.
Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Gr'st'd	King, Alfred John (Knutsford)	Roe, Sir Thomas
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Rose, Charles Day
Crean, Eugene	Lambert, George	Rowlands, J.
Crosfield, A. H.	Lamont, Norman	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Levy, Maurice	Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Lewis, John Herbert	Seaverns, J. H.
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Lough, Thomas	Seely, Major J. B.
Dobson, Thomas W.	Lupton, Arnold	Shackleton, David James
Duckworth, James	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Lyell, Charles Henry	Shaw, Rt, Hon. T. (Hawick B.)
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Macdonald, J.M. (Falkirk B'gh	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Elibank, Master of	Maclean, Donald	Smyth, Thomas F.(Leitrim, S.)
Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph(Chesh.)
Essex, E. W.	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Strachey, Sir Edward
Esslemont, George Birnie	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Everett, R. Lacey	M'Callum, John M.	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Stuart, James (Sunderland)
Fenwick, Charles	M'Micking, Major G.	Summerbell, T.
Ferens, T. R.	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Sutherland, J. E.
Ffrench, Peter	Markham, Arthur Basil	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	Walters, John Tudor	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr-	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)	Williamson, A.
Thomasson, Franklin	Wardle, George J.	Wills, Arthur Walters
Tomkinson, James	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)	Wilson, Henry J.(York, W. R.)
Toulmin, George	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Trevelyan, Charles Philips	White, George (Norfolk)	Winfrey, R.
Verney, F. W.	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Wadsworth, J.	White, Patrick (Meath, North)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)	Whitehead, Rowland	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Walsh, Stephen	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Dalrymple, Viscount	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Ashley, W. W.	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Balcarres, Lord	Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)	Smith, F. E.(Liverpool, Walton)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Haddock, George R.	Starkey, John R.
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hamilton, Marquess of	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bull, Sir William James	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Turnour, Viscount
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C. W.	Hunt, Rowland	Wilson, A Stanley(York, E.R.)
Cecil, Lord R.(Marylebone, E.)	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Younger, George
Coates,E. Feetham(Lewisham)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Courthope, G. Loyd	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)	Viscount Valentia and Mr. Forster.
Craig,Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.	Nield, Herbert
Craig, Captain James(Down, E.)	Parker, Sir Gilbert(Gravesend)

Question put and agreed to.

Amendment proposed— In page 6, line 7, after the word "apply," to insert the words' 'Provided that nothing in this sub-section, or in any rules made there under, shall authorise flogging to be inflicted for any such offence.' "—(Mr. Haldane.)

Question proposed "That these words be there inserted."

Lord R. CECIL

said the right hon. Gentleman had proposed this Amendment in order to carry out a pledge which he had given. The section as drafted originally seemed to give power to the general in the field to bring back punishment by flogging after it had been abolished. The words at the end of the sub-section were— And the limitations on the power of making rules as to the punishment of prisoners and soldiers undergoing detention and as to the severity of imprisonment and detention shall not apply. This was a very important matter, and they ought to know exactly what the effect of the clause, as the right hon. Gentleman proposed to amend it, would be. The Amendment would prevent punishment by flogging, but the general in the field, so long as he did not flog a man, could do anything he liked in the way of physical punishment. So long as he did not order flogging, he might range over all the tortures in history, so far as could be seen from the amended clause.

In point of fact the general in the field would be entitled to inflict any kind of corporal punishment other than flogging. He did not pretend to be violently opposed to corporal punishment in proper cases, but he thought it was right that the Committee should see exactly what they were going to do. He proposed as an Amendment to the right hon. Gentleman's Amendment to leave out "flogging" and insert "corporal punishment." Although that appeared to him to be a proper Amendment, it would not render the clause complete, because it would still leave power to make the punishment more severe than was allowed in any public prison in England. It was quite clear that the rule might be used so as to inflict severe punishment on the concerned men, In his view there were certain forms of imprisonment which were much more severe than any form of personal chastisement.

MR. TOMKINSON (Cheshire, Crewe)

No.

LORD R. CECIL

said that the hon. Member for Crewe did not agree with that; but let him ask what was the effect of long solitary confinement? That was a most wicked punishment, and was far more severe than any form of corporal punishment. It utterly destroyed a man's moral fibre, and in many instances his mind. So serious was that form of punishment, that stringent rules were laid down in England to prevent it. Of course, they might have imprisonment which involved starvation, or other things which would have a very severe effect on the prisoner. He did not share the great horror that some hon. Members had of corporal punishment, because there was a certain kind of criminal who was more afraid of it than any other form of punishment. He begged to move.

Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment— To leave out the word "flogging," and insert the words "corporal punishment."—(Lord R. Cecil.)

Question proposed, "That the word 'flogging' stand part of the proposed Amendment."

MR. HALDANE

said the word "flogging" was the word used in other portions of the Act, and it represented what it meant. He really did not know what corporal punishment meant. Last year in the Army Act they abolished flogging by that name, and they desired to continue it to make it clear that the abolition extended to this Act.

MAJOR SEELY (Liverpool, Abercromby)

pointed out that the expression "corporal punishment" was used in Section 133 and other parts of the Army Act. It would, he thought, be better to substitute it for "flogging," otherwise it might seem as though corporal punishment might be inflicted by a general officer in the field.

MR. CHARLES CRAIG

said the Committee ought to pause before they lightly did away with flogging altogether in the Army. He was sure the Committee would agree with him that it was quite conceivable that, in the field, there might be such a state of affairs in the presence of the enemy in which the absence of the power to flog might necessitate the infliction of the penalty of death in the case of some offences, such as the maltreatment of women, which he was sorry to say had often taken place. At the same time he thought it was right that in time of peace a general should not have the right to inflict the punishment of flogging. If the Amendment was divided upon he would vote for it.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

said there was a general feeling that the arrangement of punishments under the Bill needed thorough revision. There was no system or method about them, and punishments were inflicted which were in no sense desirable. [Cries of "Oh!"] Of course a good many hon. Members who cried "Oh!" had not heard the matter discussed as, following the example of the Prime Minister, while the debate was going on they were sleeping in their beds. He earnestly appealed to the right hon. Gentleman to consider whether he should not revise the whole of the Act.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said the remarks of the noble Lord were not in order. He thought he ought to mention to the Committee that the real point they had to consider was whether they should amend the Amendment. He had not the least objection to the two things being discussed together—the Amendment to the Amendment and the Amendment itself—so long as it was understood that there was no hiatus between the settling of the two points. If he allowed hon. Members to discuss the Amendment to the Amendment as well as the Amendment there must be no after discussion of the Amendment.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said it appeared to him that they had been discussing for thirty five minutes an entirely unnecessary point. The Amendment of the right hon. Gentleman suggested that the word "flogging" indicated a kind of punishment which was to be abolished. It was suggested that corporal punishment might still be necessary, but he thought the general opinion was in favour of getting rid both of flogging and of corporal punishment. He should be willing to vote with the noble Lord who had suggested that the words "corporal punishment" should be substituted for "flogging," but it seemed to him that the whole difficulty might be got rid of in a moment if both Amendments were withdrawn and the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill moved the adoption of the words "flogging or other corporal punishment."

MR. LUTTRELL (Devonshire, Tavistock)

supported the suggestion.

MR. HALDANE

was prepared to accept the Amendment, but hoped the Committee would now give him the clause.

CAPTAIN CRAIG

desired some explanation as to the difference between "Field Punishment No. 1 "and "Field Punishment No. 2," and complained that it was impossible to recognise the two statements made by the Secretary of State for War, one at twenty minutes past four and the other at twenty minutes past ten.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said he had great difficulty in understanding what the hon. Gentleman was driving at. He appeared to be calling attention to two inconsistent statements of the right hon. Gentleman, but he did not see that what he had said had anything to do with the Amendment.

LORD R. CECIL

said that so far as he was concerned he was quite willing to withdraw his Amendment, but he desired to move an Amendment which applied to one of the other conditions with regard to the discretion of the general in the field.

Amendment to the proposed Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment— After the word 'flogging' to insert the words, 'or other corporal punishment.' "—(Mr. Haldane.)

Question proposed, "That these words be inserted."

SIR GILBERT PARKER (Gravesend)

asked, supposing a soldier proved refractory in the field where there was no fixed prison, would it be considered corporal punishment if he were tied up, or manacled and fettered? It seemed to him that the Amendment covered a very wide ground. If it was so held, it seemed to him that the officers commanding in the field would be practically prevented from resorting to the usual methods of detention. Supposing a soldier proved refractory and was arrested and placed in detention in a tent and he still proved refractory, would tying him up to a post or putting him in irons be construed as corporal punishment?

MR. HALDANE

said the case put by the hon. Member did not come within the term corporal punishment. It was merely restraint.

LORD R. CECIL

said there was a very important limitation which it was proposed to leave out so far as the general commanding in the field was concerned. The subsection was in exceedingly wide terms. It applied to the whole of the country in which we might be operating against an enemy. If they took the recent war, this sub-section, had it been then in operation, would have applied to the whole of South Africa, Cape Colony, Natal, the Transvaal, and the Orange River Colony. That would have been the country in which "operations against the enemy are being conducted." In that wide area the powers of the Secretary of State were to be exercised by the officer commanding-in-chief. Things had gone so far that the right hon. Gentleman was going to make rules to restrict the commanding officer. The Committee had agreed that he should be limited as to flogging and corporal punishment, but he would still have the power to inflict any term of imprisonment under any conditions, however severe and terrible they might be. If he thought it necessary to imprison a man hundreds of miles from the front he could make most severe regulations as to that imprisonment. He attached enormous importance to the prevention of solitary confinement or underfeeding; and unless they inserted some such words as he suggested, the commanding officer would have complete control of the incidence of punishment. He moved as an Amendment to add— Or any imprisonment or detention more severe than it is under the law in force for the time being in any prison in England subject to the Prison Act, 1877. Amendment proposed to the proposed Amendment, as amended— After the words last inserted, to insert the words, 'or any imprisonment or detention more severe than it is under the law in force for the time being in any public prison in England subject to The Prison Act, 1877.' "—(Lord Robert Cecil.)

Question put, "That those words be there inserted."

MR. HALDANE

said that nothing was further from the mind of the Government than that anything of a barbarous or oppressive nature should be imposed in the form of imprisonment. But the effect of the words which the noble Lord proposed to add was not specific; they were perfectly general, and made it almost impossible to draw up regulations. There were no prisons of the ordinary kind, but only a tent; and, as they had excluded flogging and corporal punish-

ment injurious to life and limb, he hoped that the Committee would leave the Department free to frame proper regulations, which would be laid on the Table of the House. The desire was that their hands should not be tied.

SIR G. PARKER

When those regulations are laid on the Table shall we have an opportunity of discussing them?

MR. HALDANE

Yes.

Question put,

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 44; Noes, 215. (Division List No. 70.)

AYES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Dalrymple, Viscount	Nield, Herbert
Ashley, W. W.	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Balcarres, Lord	Forster, Henry William	Roberts,S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Haddock, George R.	Starkey, John R.
Bowles, G. Stewart	Hamilton, Marquess of	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Turnour, Viscount
Carlile, E. Hildred	Heaton, John Henniker	Valentia, Viscount
Castlereagh, Viscount	Helmsley, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Cave, George	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Cavendish, Rt.Hon. Victor C.W.	Hunt, Rowland	Wilson, A. Stanley(York, E. R.)
Coates,E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Younger, George
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Courthope, G. Loyd	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.	Muntz, Sir Philip A.	Lord Robert Cecil and Sir Gilbert Parker.
Craig, Captain James(Down, E.)	Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield)
NOES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)
Alden, Percy	Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Elibank, Master of
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Byles, William Pollard	Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Essex, R. W.
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Esslemont, George Birnie
Atherley-Jones, L.	Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Everett, R. Lacey
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Cheetham, John Frederick	Faber, G. H. (Boston)
Baker, Joseph A.(Finsbury, E.)	Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Fenwick, Charles
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Churchill, Winston Spencer	Ferens, T. R.
Barker, John	Clough, William	Ffrench, Peter
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Clynes, J. R.	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)	Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Fuller, John Michael F.
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Fullerton, Hugh
Berridge, T. H. D.	Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Gibb, James (Harrow)
Bertram, Julius	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Glover, Thomas
Bethell, Sir J H(Essex, Romford	Crean, Eugene	Gooch, George Peabody
Billson, Alfred	Crombie, John William	Grant, Corrie
Black, Arthur W.	Crosfield, A. H.	Greenwood, Hamar (York)
Boulton, A. C. F.	Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Gulland, John W.
Bowerman, C. W.	Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton
Brigg, John	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.
Bright, J. A.	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Dickinson, W. H.(St. Pancras, N.	Harwood, George
Brooke, Stopford	Dobson, Thomas W.	Hayden, John Patrick
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Duckworth, James	Hazel, Dr. A. E.
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Massie, J.	Seely, Major J. B.
Henderson, J. M.(Aberdeen, W.)	Molteno, Percy Alport	Shackleton, David James
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Montagu, E. S.	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford).
Higham, John Sharp	Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen)	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B
Hogan, Michael	Morrell, Philip	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Holden, E. Hopkinson	Morse, L. L.	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Hooper, A. G.	Murphy, John	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	Murray, James	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Hudson, Walter	Nicholson, Charles N(Doncast'r	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Idris, T. H. W.	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Strachey, Sir Edward
Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Nuttall, Harry	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Jones, Sir D. Brynmor(Swansea	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid	Summerbell, T.
Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Sutherland, J. E.
Jowett, F. W.	O'Dowd, John	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Kearley, Hudson E.	O'Grady, J.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Kekewich, Sir George	O'Shee, James John	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Kelley, George D.	Parker, James (Halifax)	Thomasson, Franklin
Kilbride, Denis	Partington, Oswald	Toulmin, George
Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Verney, F. W.
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Philippe, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Lambert, George	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Walsh, Stephen
Lamont, Norman	Pirie, Duncan V.	Walters, John Tudor
Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington	Pollard, Dr.	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Lever, A Levy (Essex, Harwich)	Price, C.E. (Edinb'gh, Central)	Wardle, George J.
Lever, W.H.(Cheshire, Wirral)	Pullar, Sir Robert	Wason, Eugene(Clackmannan)
Levy, Maurice	Raphael, Herbert H.	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Lewis, John Herbert	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Weir, James Galloway
Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	Whitbread, Howard
Lough, Thomas	Rees, J. D.	White, George (Norfolk)
Lupton, Arnold	Richards, T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Richardson, A.	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Ridsdale, E. A.	Whitehead, Rowland
Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Mackarness, Frederic C.	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E.(Dundee)	Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n)
Maclean, Donald	Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd	Williamson, A.
Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)	Roe, Sir Thomas	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
MacVeigh, Charles(Donegal, E.)	Rowlands, J.	Winfrey, R.
M'Callum, John M.	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland
M'Micking, Major G.	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—.
Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease
Marnham, F. J.	Seaverns, J. H.

Proposed words, as amended, there inserted.

MR. HALDANE

rose in his place and claimed to move, "That the Question 'That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill' be now put."

LORD R. CECIL

asked whether it was in order for the Chairman to put the Motion as proposed.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

supported the protest on the ground that

under the Standing Orders what was called consequential closure—

*THE CHAIRMAN

Order, order! The question of consequential closure is not under consideration.

Question put, "That the Question 'That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill' be now put."

The Committee divided.—Ayes, 217; Noes 45. (Division List No. 71.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Ashton, Thomas Gair	Barlow, Percy (Bedford)
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Atherley-Jones, L.	Barry, E. (Cork, S.)
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)
Alden, Percy	Baker, Joseph A.(Finsbury,E.)	Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Baring, Godfrey(Isle of Wight)	Berridge, T.H. D.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Barker, John	Bertram, Julius
Bethell, Sir J.H.(Essex, Romf'rd	Henderson, J. M.(Aberdeen, W.)	Pearce, William (Limehouse)
Billson, Alfred	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)
Black, Arthur W.	Higham, John Sharp	Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Boulton, A. C. F.	Hogan, Michael	Pirie, Duncan V.
Bowerman, C. W.	Holden, E. Hopkinson	Pollard, Dr.
Brigg, John	Hooper, A. G.	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)
Bright, J. A.	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	Pullar, Sir Robert
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N.	Raphael, Herbert H.
Brooke, Stopford	Hudson, Walter	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Hyde, Clarendon	Redmond, John E.(Waterford)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Idris, T. H. W.	Rees, J. D.
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Richards, T.F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Jardine, Sir J.	Richardson, A.
Buxton, Rt. Hn Sydney Charles	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Ridsdale, E. A.
Byles, William Pollard	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Jowett, F. W.	Robertson, Sir G.Scott(Bradf'rd
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Kearley, Hudson E.	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Cheetham, John Frederick	Kekewich, Sir George	Roe, Sir Thomas
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Kelley, George D.	Rowlands, J.
Clough, William	Kilbride, Denis	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Clynes, J. R.	Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Coats, Sir T. Glen(Renfrew,W.)	Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster)	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Scott, A. H.(Ashton underLyne)
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Lambert, George	Seaverns, J. H.
Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Lamont, Norman	Seely, Major J. B.
Craig, Herbert J.(Tynemouth)	Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington	Shackleton, David James
Crean, Eugene	Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich)	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Crombie, John William	Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)
Crosfield, A. H.	Levy, Maurice	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Lewis, John Herbert	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Lough, Thomas	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh,S.)	Lupton, Arnold	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras, N.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Strachey, Sir Edward
Dobson, Thomas W.	Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs	Summerbell, T.
Duckworth, James	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Sutherland, J. E.
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Maclean, Donald	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	MacVeagh, Jeremiah(Down, S.	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr)
Elibank, Master of	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)	Thomasson, Franklin
Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward	M'Callum, John M.	Toulmin, George
Essex, R. W.	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Esslemont, George Birnie	M'Micking, Major G.	Verney, F. W.
Everett, R. Lacey	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Marnham, F. J.	Walsh, Stephen
Fenwick, Charles	Massie, J.	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Ferens, T. R.	Molteno, Percy Alport	Wardle, George J.
Ffrench, Peter	Montague, E. S.	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Morgan, J Lloyd(Carmarthen)	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Morrell, Philip	Weir, James Galloway
Fuller, John Michael F.	Morse, L. L.	Whitbread, Howard
Fullerton, Hugh	Murphy, John	White, George (Norfolk)
Gibb, James (Harrow)	Murray, James	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. HerbertJohn	Nicholson, CharlesN.(Doncaster	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Glover, Thomas	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Whitehead, Rowland
Gooch, GeorgePeabody	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Grant, Corrie	Nuttall, Harry	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Greenwood, Hamar (York)	O'Brien, Kendal(TipperaryMid)	Williamson, A.
Gulland, John W.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Dowd, John	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	O'Grady, J.	Winfrey, R.
Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis	O'Malley, William	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Harwood, George	O'Shee, James John
Hayden, John Patrick	Parker, James (Halifax)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Partington, Oswald	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craik, Sir Henry	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Ashley, W. W.	Dalrymple, Viscount	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Balcarres, Lord	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Haddock, George R.	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hamilton, Marquess of	Starkey, John R.
Bowles, G. Stewart	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Heaton, John Henniker	Turnour, Viscount
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	Wilson, A. Stanley(York, E. R.)
Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C.W.	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Younger, George
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Muntz, Sir Philip A.	Viscount Valentia and Mr. Forster.
Courthope, G. Loyd	Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield)
Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.	Nield, Herbert
Craig, Captain James(Down, E.)	Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)

Question put accordingly.

The Committee divided.—Ayes, 222; Noes, 45. (Division List No. 72.)

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Crombie, John William	Hooper, A. G.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Crosfield, A. H.	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)
Agnew, George William	Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan)	Hudson, Walter
Alden, Percy	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Hutton, Alfred Eddison
Allen A. Acland (Christchurch)	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Idris, T. H. W.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Dickinson, W. H.(St. Pancras, N.	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Jardine, Sir J.
Atherley-Jones, L.	Dobson, Thomas W.	Johnson, John (Gateshead)
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Duckworth, James	Jones, SirD. Brnymor (Swansea)
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury,E.)	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Jowett, F. W.
Barker, John	Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	Kearley, Hudson E.
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Kekewich, Sir George
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Elibank, Master of	Kelley, George D.
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.)	Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward	Kilbride, Denis
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Essex, R. W.	Kincaid-Smith, Captain
Berridge, T. H. D.	Esslemont, George Birnie	Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster
Bertram, Julius	Everett, R. Lacey	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Bethell, Sir J.H.(Essex, Romf'd	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Lambert, George
Billson, Alfred	Fenwick, Charles	Lamont, Norman
Black, Arthur W.	Ferens, T. R.	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington)
Boulton, A. C. F.	Ffrench, Peter	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)
Bowerman, C. W.	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)
Brigg, John	Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Levy, Maurice
Bright, J. A.	Fuller, John Michael F.	Lewis, John Herbert
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Fullerton, Hugh	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David
Brooke, Stopford	Gibb, James(Harrow)	Lough, Thomas
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. HerbertJhn	Lupton, Arnold
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Glover, Thomas	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Grant, Corrie	Macdonald, J.R.(Leicester)
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill	Mackarness, Frederic C.
Byles, William Pollard	Gulland, John W.	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Gwynn, Stephen Lucius	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	M'Calmont, Colonel James
Cheetham, John Frederick	Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Harwood, George	M'Micking, Major G.
Clough, William	Hayden, John Patrick	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Glynes, J. R.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Marnham, F. J.
Coats, Sir T. Glen(Renfrew,W.)	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Massie, J.
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.)	Molteno, Percy Alport
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Montagu, E. S.
Corbett, CH (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Higham, John Sharp	Mooney, J. J.
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Hogan, Michael	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Crean, Eugene	Holden, E. Hopkinson	Morrell, Philip
Morse, L. L.	Ridsdale, E. A.	Toulmin, George
Murphy, John	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Murray, James	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)	Verney, F. W.
Nicholson, Charles N.(Doncast'r	Robertson, Sir G.Scott(Bradf'd	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Walsh, Stephen
Nussey, Thomas Willans	Roe, Sir Thomas	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Nuttall, Harry	Rowlands, J.	Wardle, George J.
O'Brien, Kendal (TipperaryMid	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Waring, Walter
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland)	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
O'Dowd, John	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
O'Grady, J.	Scott, A.H.(Ashton underLyne)	Weir, James Galloway
O'Malley, William	Seaverns, J. H.	Whitbread, Howard
O'Shee, James John	Seely, Major J. B.	White, George (Norfolk)
Parker, James (Halifax)	Shackleton, David James	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Partington, Oswald	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Whitehead, Rowland
Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Silcock, Thomas Ball	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	Williamson, A.
Pirie, Duncan V.	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Pollard, Dr.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Price, C. E.(Edinb'gh, Central)	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.	Winfrey, R.
Pullar, Sir Robert	Strachey, Sir Edward	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Raphael, Herbert H.	Summerbell, T.
Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Sutherland, J. E.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Redmond, John E.(Waterford)	Taylor, John W. (Durham)	Mr.Whiteley and Mr. J. A Pease.
Rees, J. D.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Richards,T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthy
Richardson, A.	Thomasson, Franklin
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craik, Sir Henry	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Ashley, W. W.	Dalrymple, Viscount	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall
Balcarres, Lord	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Haddock, George R.	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hamilton, Marquess of	Starkey, John R.
Bowles, G. Stewart	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Heaton, John Henniker	Turnour, Viscount
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)
Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C.W.	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Younger, George
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Muntz, Sir Philip A.	Viscount Valentia and Mr. Forster.
Courthope, G. Loyd	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)
Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.	Nield, Herbert
Craig, Captain James(Down, E.)	Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)

SIR F. BANBURY

moved to report Progress. Private Bill Committees, he said, were about to sit, and hon. Members would be unable to do their duty to Private Bills and at the same time remain in the House. He understood also that the Prime Minister had an engagement at twelve o'clock. He begged leave to move to report Progress and ask leave to sit again.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Chairman do report Progress; and ask leave to sit again."—(Sir F. Banbury.)

MR. HALDANE

said that was the third or fourth time that the Motion had been made. He did not think there was any-

thing new under the circumstances which the hon. Baronet had put forward which made the slightest difference in the position. The Government did not propose to accept the Motion.

LORD BALCARRES

appealed to the Secretary of State to accept the Motion. He (Lord Balcarres) had been in the House now for twenty hours, and he submitted that there was no Parliamentary hurry for concluding the Bill at that sitting. There were three Parliamentary weeks after the holidays during which the statutory requirements could be carried out, and no case had been made out for urgency. He submitted that it was not unreasonable that at that hour they should be allowed to adjourn.

MR. HUNT (Shropshire, Ludlow)

said the Government had taken three hours of the time of the House during which they might have been discussing the Army (Annual) Bill. At all events, they on that side of the House did not think that the Government had a right to take those hours. He belonged to a Private Bill Committee, and he was now due, or rather overdue, and he appealed to the Prime Minister to allow the adjournment of the debate, for hon. Members were only human.

MR. STANLEY WILSON

said the Secretary of State for War had not replied to the argument as to the matter of urgency. Why not adjourn now, and put the continuation of the debate down for Monday? He appealed to the Prime Minister, not only on behalf of the Opposition, but on behalf of the officials, and also on behalf of the police, who had had a very hard night. They had been protecting the House of Commons, which had been practically throughout the night in a state of siege. The police had been engaged in conducting women to the police station, and he appealed to the Prime Minister even on behalf of the Secretary of State for War. He (Mr. Wilson) appealed also on behalf of the unfortunate Members of the House who had been sitting through the debate. If hon. Members on the Government side could cross the floor and look at their own faces, he felt that they would have sympathy with themselves.

MR. SAMUEL ROBERTS

, although a Member of a Committee, thought it was their duty on the Opposition side to stay in the House and see the business through. The difficulty was not the making of the Unionist Members. He thought the Prime Minister ought to see that they should adjourn. Had the original arrangements been adhered to the Bill might have been carried through in an hour.

SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

The hon. Member who has just sat down has thrown a light upon this matter. He says that this Bill should have occupied only an hour, and that there was no intention to occupy more than an hour's time. The hon. Member said so—and I believe the hon. Member who moved the Motion last night said an hour and a half. It is said by hon. Members opposite that the trouble was caused by our interposing the Third Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill. It has always been the invariable practice of the House to take the different stages of such Bills de die in diem. I regarded Thursday as the necessary night when the Third Reading of the Bill would occur. According to the then arrangement the Committee stage should have been taken on Wednesday, but at the request of the Opposition, and in order to study the desires of hon. Members opposite, the whole matter was advanced, to the considerable loss of the Government. And, therefore, what had been provisionally fixed for Thursday was taken on Wednesday. Then we are told that the whole of this all-night sitting, which I have been fortunate enough to escape, according to the intrepretation now put upon it—which I would never have ventured to put upon it—is a pure piece of vindictiveness in consequence of some alleged misconduct, of the Government with regard to the Consolidated Fund Bill which has been explained. In consequence of that, all these Amendments of such thrilling importance and absolute necessity, have been put down, one after another, and we are asked now to adjourn. No, Sir; we have no intention of doing so. The hollowness of the whole thing is now exposed. In one way or another we will secure that the Report stage will be taken on Monday, and we are not prepared to interrupt our scheme of business and sacrifice days after Easter in order to gratify hon. Members opposite.

LORD ROBERT CECIL

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman was in order in imputing vindictiveness to hon. Members.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said that the phrase was only a gloss on statements made by hon. Members and he did not, under the circumstances, consider it unparliamentary.

SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

I might reply in what I believe to be a legal phrase familiar to the noble Lord—Habemus confitentes reos. If it had not been for the action taken in regard to the Consolidated Fund Bill this question might have been disposed of in an hour or an hour and a half. We are not disposed to accede to this request.

MR. FORSTER

said he had been present almost continually in the House during the time that the Army Annual Bill had been under discussion. They had learned from the Prime Minister that he would not treat the Opposition in a reasonable manner. They had also learned from him that he

would have no regard for hon. Members on the Opposition side of the House. If the right hon. Gentleman was ready to fight, so were they.

MR. HALDANE

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put.

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 230; Noes, 47. (Division List No. 73).

AYES.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Davies, W. Howell (Bristol,S.)	Jones, Leif (Appleby)
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras, N.	Jowett, F. W.
Alden, Percy	Dobson, Thomas W.	Kearley, Hudson E.
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Duckworth, James	Kekewich, Sir George
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness)	Kelley, George D.
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Kilbride, Denis
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	Kincaid-Smith, Captain
Atherley-Jones, L.	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster)
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Elibank, Master of	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward	Lambert, George
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Essex, R. W.	Lamont, Norman
Barker, John	Esslemont, George Birnie	Leese, SirJosephF.(Accrington)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Everett, R. Lacey	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Lever, W.H.(Cheshire, Wirral)
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Fenwick, Charles	Lewis, John Herbert
Benn, Sir J. Williams (Devonp'rt	Ferens, T. R.	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David
Benn,W.(T'w'rHamlets, S. Geo.)	Ffrench, Peter	Lough, Thomas
Berridge, T. H. D.	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Lupton, Arnold
Bertram, Julius	Findlay, Alexander	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Bethell, Sir J.H.(Essex, Romf'd	Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Billson, Alfred	Fuller, John Michael F.	Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs
Black, Arthur W.	Fullerton, Hugh	Mackarness, Frederic C.
Boulton, A. C. F.	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.
Bowerman, C. W.	Ginnell, L.	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.
Brigg, John	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert Jn.	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)
Bright, J. A.	Glover, Thomas	M'Callum, John M.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Grant, Corrie	M'Crae, George
Brooke, Stopford	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill	M'Micking, Major G.
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Gulland, John W.	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Marnham, F. J.
Buxton, Rt.Hn.Sydney Charles	Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis	Massie, J.
Byles, William Pollard	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Meehan, Patrick A.
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Harwood, George	Molteno, Percy Alport
Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight	Hayden, John Patrick	Montagu, E. S.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Mooney, J. J.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Clough, William	Henderson, J. M.(Aberdeen, W.)	Morrell, Philip
Clynes, J. R.	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Morse, L. L.
Coats, Sir T.Glen (Renfrew, W.)	Higham, John Sharp	Murphy, John
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Hogan, Michael	Murray, James
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Hooper, A. G.	Nicholson, CharlesN.(Doncaster
Corbett, CH(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N.	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Crean, Eugene	Hudson, Walter	Nuttall, Harry
Crombie, John William	Idris, T. H. W.	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary, Mid
Crosfield, A. H.	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Jardine, Sir J.	O'Dowd, John
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Jenkins, J.	O'Grady, J.
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea	O'Malley, William
O'Shee, James John	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Verney, F. W.
Parker, James (Halifax)	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Partington, Oswald	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Walsh, Stephen
Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek)	Scott, A.H.(Ashtonunder Lyne)	Walters, John Tudor
Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Seaverns, J. H.	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Seely, Major J. B.	Wardle, George J.
Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Shackleton, David James	Waring, Walter
Pirie, Duncan V.	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Pollard, Dr.	Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick B.)	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Price, C. E.(Edinburgh, Central)	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Weir, James Galloway
Pullar, Sir Robert	Silcock, Thomas Ball	Whitbread, Howard
Raphael, Herbert H.	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	White, George (Norfolk)
Remond, John E. (Waterford)	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Rees, J. D.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Richards, T.F.(Wolverh'mpt'n	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)	Whitehead, Rowland
Richardson, A.	Strachey, Sir Edward	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Ridsdale, E. A.	Summerbell, T.	Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n
Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Sutherland, J. E.	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Robertson, Sir G.Scott(Bradf'd	Taylor, John W. (Durham)	Winfrey, R.
Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Robinson, S.	Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury
Roe, Sir Thomas	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Rose, Charles Day	Thomasson, Franklin	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Rowlands, J.	Tomkinson, James
Runciman, Walter	Toulmin, George
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.)	Muntz, Sir Philip A.
Ashley, W. W.	Craig, Captain James(Down, E.)	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)
Balcarres, Lord	Craik, Sir Henry	Nield, Herbert
Balfour, Rt Hn. A. J.(City Lond.)	Dalrymple, Viscount	Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Baring, Hon Guy (Winchester)	Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)	Roberts,S. (Sheffield, Ecelesall)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Haddock, George R.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Bowles, G. Stewart	Hamilton, Marquess of	Starkey, John R.
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Carlile, E. Hildred	Heaton, John Henniker	Turnour, Viscount
Castlereagh, Viscount	Helmsley, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Cave, George	Hervey, F. W. F(Bury S. Edm'd's	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.)
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Houston, Robert Paterson	Younger, George
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Hunt, Rowland
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Lane-Fox, G. R.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)	Viscount Valentia and Mr. Forster.
Courthope, G. Loyd	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

Question put accordingly, "That the Chairman do report progress; and ask leave to sit again."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 48; Noes, 230. (Division List No. 74).

Acland, Francis Dyke	Fullerton, Hugh	Nicholson, Charles N.(Doncast'r
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Ginnell, L.	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Alden, Percy	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Nuttall, Harry
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Glover, Thomas	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary, Mid
Allen, Charles P. (Stround)	Grant, Corrie	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	O'Dowd, John
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill	O'Grady, J.
Atherley-Jones, L.	Gulland, John W.	O'Malley, William
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Shee, James John
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Palmer, Sir Charles Mark
Barker, John	Harcourt, Right Hon Lewis	Parker, James (Halifax)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Partington, Oswald
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Harwood, George	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Hayden, John Patrick	Pearce, William (Limehouse)
Belloc, Hilaire Joseph Peter R.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)
Benn, Sir J. Williams(Devonp'rt	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Benn,W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Higham, John Sharp	Pirie, Duncan V.
Berridge, T. H. D.	Hogan, Michael	Pollard, Dr.
Bertram, Julius	Hooper, A. G.	Price, C. E.(Edinburgh, Central)
Bethell, Sir J.H.(Essex, Romf'd)	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	Pullar, Sir Robert
Billson, Alfred	Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N.	Raphael, Herbert H.
Black, Arthur W.	Hudson, Walter	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Boulton, A. C. F.	Idris, T. H. W.	Rees, J. D.
Bowerman, C. W.	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Richards, T.F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Brigg, John	Jardine, Sir J.	Richardson, A.
Bright, J. A.	Jenkins, J.	Rickett, J. Compton
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor(Swansea	Ridsdale, E. A.
Brooke, Stopford	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Jones, William (Carnarv'nshire	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E.(Dundee)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Jowett, F. W.	Robertson, Sir G.Scott(Bradf'd)
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Kearley, Hudson E.	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Kekewich, Sir George	Robinson, S.
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Kelley, George D.	Roe, Sir Thomas
Byles, William Pollard	Kilbride, Denis	Rose, Charles Day
Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight	Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Rowlands, J.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Lamb, Edmund G.(Leominster)	Runciman, Walter
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Clough, William	Lambert, George	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Clynes, J. R.	Lamont, Norman	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Coats, Sir T.Glen (Renfrew, W.)	Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington)	Scott, A. H.(Ashton underLyne)
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)	Seaverns, J. H.
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Lever, W.H.(Cheshire, Wirral)	Seely, Major J. B.
Corbett, CH (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Lewis, John Herbert	Shackleton, David James
Craig, Herbert J.(Tynemouth)	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Crean, Eugene	Lough, Thomas	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)
Crombie, John William	Lupton, Arnold	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Crosfield, A. H.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs)	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Dickinson, W. H.(St. Pancras, N.	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)	Strachey, Sir Edward
Dobson, Thomas W.	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)	Summerbell, T.
Duckworth, James	M'Callum, John M.	Sutherland, J. E.
Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness)	M'Crae, George	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	M'Micking, Major G.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Maddison, Frederick	Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury)
Elibank, Master of	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr)
Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)	Thomasson, Franklin
Essex, R. W.	Marnham, F. J.	Tomkinson, James
Esslemont, George Birnie	Massie, J.	Toulmin, George
Everett, R. Lacey	Meehan, Patrick A.	Verney, F. W.
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Molteno, Percy Alport	Wadsworth, J.
Fenwick, Charles	Montagu, E. S.	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Ferens, T. R.	Mooney, J. J.	Walsh, Stephen
Ffrench, Peter	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)	Walters, John Tudor
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Morrell, Philip	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Findlay. Alexander	Morse, L. L.	Wardle, George J.
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Murphy, John	Waring, Walter
Fuller, John Michael F.	Murray, James	Wason, Eugene(Clackmannan)

Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)	Whitehead, Rowland	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Weir, James Galloway	Whiteley, John Henry(Halifax)
Whitbread, Howard	Williams, Llewelyn(Carm'rth'n)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
White, George (Norfolk)	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
White, Luke (York, E.R.)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
White, Patrick (Meath, North)	Winfrey, R.

MR. ASHLEY

moved a new clause defining the punishment for repeated desertion, fraudulent enlistment, and absence without leave, and by way of substitution for the old clause in the Army Act, which he contended was unjust. It laid down the principle that a man tried for fraudulent enlistment and desertion by Court-martial, and convicted of both of those offences, should be liable to a higher scale of punishment than if convicted of only one offence. If he was convicted of two offences, he would be liable to penal servitude, but if he was convicted of only one offence he would be liable to imprisonment. He was sure that the Committee would agree that, if a man committed an offence twice, it was right his punishment should be increased; but it was extremely unusual, in English Civil Law, that a man, because he was convicted of two offences, should be liable to penal servitude, whereas, if he was convicted of only one offence, he would be liable only to imprisonment.

New Clause (Amendment of Army Act as to Desertion, Fraudulent Enlistment, and Absence without Leave)—(Mr. Ashley)—brought up, and read the first time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the clause be road a second time."

MR. HALDANE

said it was impossible for him to accept the proposed new clause. A person enlisting fraudulently once might do so under some impulse, but the person who had deserted from one regiment, and fraudulently enlisted in another, was a very different type of man. Under the section as it stood, a man came under the second category, and was liable to penal servitude, who repeatedly fraudulently enlisted. Those cases were very few, but penal servitude; had been inflicted. The new clause sought to take away the power of imposing that punishment, and he could not accept it.

Sir F. BANBURY

said the right hon. Gentleman's argument was no doubt extremely good, provided that the punishment was limited to a certain number of years of imprisonment. He quite agreed that a man who committed an offence knowingly the second time should have a heavier punishment than the man who committed it for the first time, That principle applied to every offence under the statute. They all agreed that fraudulent enlistment was a serious offence, that it acted very detrimentally to the Army, and was one for which there should undoubtedly be a fresh and increasing punishment to act as a deterrent in case of repeated offences; but the punishment provided in the Act was of a different category altogether. They were not content to say that the punishment should be increased, but they said that a different kind of penalty should be imposed. Could the right hon. Gentleman tell them of any offence in law for which a different penalty was inflicted on a second conviction? He believed there was no statute which said that, provided a man had been convicted before, he should be liable to a punishment different from that to which he was liable on first conviction. Under those circumstances, he thought they ought to pause and consider whether they should not accept the new clause. The Committee, he thought, were indebted to his hon. friend for pointing out what he believed to be an absolute injustice. None of them was desirous of giving any facility for desertion or fraudulent enlistment, and they all regarded the Army as a serious profession. He hoped those Members who had legal experience would show them if they were wrong in supporting the new clause, because they on that side of the House were in an exceedingly reasonable frame of mind, and, if it could be shown that, as laymen, they were making a mistake, they would no doubt reconsider the matter. He, however, contended that they had not made a mistake, but that they were right in supporting the Amendment. If his hon. friend went to a division, he would support him.

MR. CAVE

said they were not dealing with the case of a man who had been already convicted, nor with the case of a man who had been convicted more than once of fraudulent enlistment, but with the case of a man who had fraudulently enlisted and then was not found out until he was brought up as a deserter. He might then be tried, at one and the same time, for fraudulent enlistment and desertion. It was the first time he was charged, but he was charged with two offences at once. In an ordinary criminal Court, the man would be dealt with as though he was a first offender in each case; but under the section which his hon. friend sought to modify, if he was convicted for the first offence, he was liable, when charged with the second offence, to be treated as an old offender. That was neither right nor in accordance with the rules of our criminal law. He had known hundreds of men brought up at the same Court on two charges, and they had never been treated on the second charge as old offenders. It was never done, and he doubted whether it could be done. It was under this Act only, so far as he knew, that a man tried with a double offence could be treated as an old offender and sent to penal servitude for what was really only one offence. He did not think that that was either fair or just. It was certainly not in accordance with the rules of English civil law, and if the hon. Gentleman would only look into the matter and see what it meant, he was sure he would agree with them. The Amendment was to leave out of Section 12 certain word sat the end, which provided it should be lawful, on conviction of a person of two or more offences, to award him the higher punishment provided for a second offence, as though he had been convicted by a previous Court-martial of one of such offences. He supported the proposed new clause.

SIR GILBERT PARKER

heartily supported the proposed new clause. It was generally held that the object of punishment was to prevent a man from committing the offence again. If the man did repeat the offence after punishment, then the Court, as a rule, took a more severe view of the case, and properly so. The man had had time to think of the offence he had committed, and the effect of his conduct had been brought home to him. If he then committed the crime again, a severer punishment ought to be administered. But in this case the man was not given any opportunity for repentance. He had enlisted fraudulently, but he had not had the real significance of his crime brought home to him. Then. having fraudulently enlisted, he deserted. That was a serious thing, but the man would not have fully realised the heinousness of his offence in the way he would have done if he had already been imprisoned for it. He, therefore, agreed with his hon. friend who had raised the question, that the case was entirely different from that of a man who had committed an offence, been punished, had had time to consider it, and had then deliberately repeated the offence. The right hon. Gentleman must see that he had put the soldier on an entirely different basis from any other man who committed a misdemeanour or crime. He appealed to the right hon. Gentleman to accept the clause, which would, he honestly believed, obviate unfair treatment of a man who had had no opportunity whatever of repenting of his offence.

MR. LANE-FOX

was sorry to have to disagree from his hon. friend, but on this occasion he could not support him He entirely agreed with the view taken by the right hon. Gentleman. It was not a question between a first and second offence, but between one offence and one very much greater. Everybody knew that a man who habitually deserted was a far greater nuisance, and committed a far more serious crime, than could be fairly gauged by the question between one and two. He thought, when hon. Members considered the matter, they would see that there was no hardship. The Act said that a man might be sent to penal servitude; but everybody knew that the maximum penalty was seldom imposed, and surely it was desirable that there should be a severe penalty for the habitual deserter, who, after all, was not easy to discover, was a constant source of trouble, and might also be a source of danger. He could not, therefore, support the now clause.

LORD R. CECIL

said the case put by the hon. Member for Blackpool was that the two offences were really one. It was not only that the man had not been warned, but the Court which had tried and found him guilty of one offence was naturally prone to think him guilty of the second offence, and the man did not get an impartial trial. The conviction of two offences by the same Court at the same time was not the same thing as the conviction of a man by different Courts for different offences.

MR. COURTHOPE

thought that if his hon. friends would look at the clause again they would see that their objections to the alterations fell to the ground. The proposed alteration in Clause 12, as he read it, was not

to prevent an increased penalty being given for an offence committed a second time, but was one to prevent two offences, brought up at one and the same time and tried together, being treated as first and second offences.

MR. HALDANE

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 232; Noes, 52. (Division List No. 75.)

AYES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig, Captain James(Down, E.)	Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield)
Ashley, W. W.	Craik, Sir Henry	Nield, Herbert
Balcarres, Lord	Dalrymple, Viscount	Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)
Balfour, Rt Hn. A. J.(City Lond.)	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)	Roberts,S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)	Haddock, George R.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hamilton, Marquess of	Starkey, John R.
Bowles, G. Stewart	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Heaton, John Henniker	Turnour, Viscount
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F. W. F. (Bury S. Edmd's	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)
Cave, George	Houston, Robert Paterson	Younger, George
Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C.W.	Hunt, Rowland
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Lane-Fox, G. R.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin,S)	Viscount Valentia and Mr. Forster.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Courthope, G. Loyd	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.)	Muntz, Sir Philip A.
Acland, Francis Dyke	Fullerton, Hugh	Nicholson, Charles N.(Doncast'r
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Ginnell, L.	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Alden, Percy	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Nuttall, Harry
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Glover, Thomas	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary, Mid
Allen, Charles P. (Stround)	Grant, Corrie	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	O'Dowd, John
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill	O'Grady, J.
Atherley-Jones, L.	Gulland, John W.	O'Malley, William
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	O'Shee, James John
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Palmer, Sir Charles Mark
Barker, John	Harcourt, Right Hon Lewis	Parker, James (Halifax)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Partington, Oswald
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Harwood, George	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Hayden, John Patrick	Pearce, William (Limehouse)
Belloc, Hilaire Joseph Peter R.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)
Benn, Sir J. Williams(Devonp'rt	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Benn,W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Higham, John Sharp	Pirie, Duncan V.
Berridge, T. H. D.	Hogan, Michael	Pollard, Dr.
Bertram, Julius	Hooper, A. G.	Price, C. E.(Edinburgh, Central)
Bethell, Sir J.H.(Essex, Romf'd)	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	Pullar, Sir Robert
Billson, Alfred	Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N.	Raphael, Herbert H.
Black, Arthur W.	Hudson, Walter	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Boulton, A. C. F.	Idris, T. H. W.	Rees, J. D.
Bowerman, C. W.	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Richards, T.F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Brigg, John	Jardine, Sir J.	Richardson, A.
Bright, J. A.	Jenkins, J.	Rickett, J. Compton
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor(Swansea	Ridsdale, E. A.
Brooke, Stopford	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Jones, William (Carnarv'nshire	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E.(Dundee)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Jowett, F. W.	Robertson, Sir G.Scott(Bradf'd)
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Kearley, Hudson E.	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Kekewich, Sir George	Robinson, S.
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Kelley, George D.	Roe, Sir Thomas
Byles, William Pollard	Kilbride, Denis	Rose, Charles Day
Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight	Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Rowlands, J.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Lamb, Edmund G.(Leominster)	Runciman, Walter
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Clough, William	Lambert, George	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Clynes, J. R.	Lamont, Norman	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Coats, Sir T.Glen (Renfrew, W.)	Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington)	Scott, A. H.(Ashton underLyne)
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)	Seaverns, J. H.
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Lever, W.H.(Cheshire, Wirral)	Seely, Major J. B.
Corbett, CH (Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Lewis, John Herbert	Shackleton, David James
Craig, Herbert J.(Tynemouth)	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Crean, Eugene	Lough, Thomas	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)
Crombie, John William	Lupton, Arnold	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Crosfield, A. H.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs)	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Dickinson, W. H.(St. Pancras, N.	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)	Strachey, Sir Edward
Dobson, Thomas W.	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)	Summerbell, T.
Duckworth, James	M'Callum, John M.	Sutherland, J. E.
Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness)	M'Crae, George	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	M'Micking, Major G.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Maddison, Frederick	Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury)
Elibank, Master of	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr)
Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)	Thomasson, Franklin
Essex, R. W.	Marnham, F. J.	Tomkinson, James
Esslemont, George Birnie	Massie, J.	Toulmin, George
Everett, R. Lacey	Meehan, Patrick A.	Verney, F. W.
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Molteno, Percy Alport	Wadsworth, J.
Fenwick, Charles	Montagu, E. S.	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Ferens, T. R.	Mooney, J. J.	Walsh, Stephen
Ffrench, Peter	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)	Walters, John Tudor
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Morrell, Philip	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Findlay. Alexander	Morse, L. L.	Wardle, George J.
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Murphy, John	Waring, Walter
Fuller, John Michael F.	Murray, James	Wason, Eugene(Clackmannan)

Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)	Whitehead, Rowland	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Weir, James Galloway	Whiteley, John Henry(Halifax)
Whitbread, Howard	Williams, Llewelyn(Carm'rth'n)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
White, George (Norfolk)	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
White, Luke (York, E.R.)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
White, Patrick (Meath, North)	Winfrey, R.
NOES.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Dobson, Thomas W.	Kearley, Hudson E.
Alden, Percy	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Kekewich, Sir George
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Kelley, George D.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Edwards, Clemeat (Denbigh)	Kilbride, Denis
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Kincaid-Smith, Captain
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Elibank, Master of	Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominst'r
Atherley-Jones, L.	Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Essex, R. W.	Lambert, George
Baker, Joseph A.(Finsbury, E.)	Esslemont, George Birnie	Lamont, Norman
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Everett, R. Lacey	Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington
Barker, John	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Fenwick, Charles	Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)
Barry, E. (Cork, S,)	Ferens, T. R.	Lewis, John Herbert
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Ffrench, Peter	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David
Belloc, Hilaire Joseph Peter R.	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Lough, Thomas
Benn, Sir J. William(Dev'np'rt	Findlay, Alexander	Lupton, Arnold
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Fuller, John Michael F.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Berridge, T. H. D.	Fullerton, Hugh	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Bertram, Julius	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs
Bethell, Sir J. H. (Essex, Romf'd	Ginnell, L.	Mackarness, Frederick C.
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Maclean, Donald
Billson, Alfred	Glover, Thomas	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Grant, Corrie	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift
Black, Arthur W,	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.
Boulton, A. C. F.	Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)
Brigg, John	Gulland, John W.	M'Callum, John M.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	M'Crae, George
Brooke, Stopford	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Harcourt, Right Hon. Lewis	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	M'Micking, Major G.
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Hart-Davies, T.	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Byles, William Pollard	Harwood, George	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Hayden, John Patrick	Marnham, F. J.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Massie, J.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Meehan, Patrick, A.
Clough, William	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Molteno, Percy Alport
Clynes, J. R.	Higham, John Sharp	Money, L. G. Chiozza
Coates, SiR T.Glen-(Renfrew,W.	Hogan, Michael	Montagu, E. S.
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Hooper, A. G.	Mooney, J. J.
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Corbett, C H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Hudson, Walter	Morrell, Philip
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth	Idris, T. H. W.	Morse, L. L.
Crean, Eugene	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Murphy, John
Crombie, John William	Jardine, Sir J.	Murray, James
Crosfield, A. H.	Jenkins, J.	Nicholson, Charles N. (Donc'r)
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Jones, William (Carnarvonsh'e	Nuttall, Harry
Dickinson, W.H. (St. Pancras, N	Jowett, F. W.	O'Brien, Kendal (TipperaryMid
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Rose, Charles Day	Toulmin, George
O'Dowd, John	Rowlands, J.	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
O'Grady, J.	Runciman, Walter	Verney, F. W.
O'Malley, William	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Wadsworth, J.
O'Shee, James John	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Palmer, Sir Charles Mark	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Walsh, Stephen
Parker, James (Halifax)	Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne	Walters, John Tudor
Partington, Oswald	Seaverns, J. H.	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Seely, Major J. B.	Wardle, George J.
Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Shackleton, David James	Waring, Walter
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan
Pickersgill, Edward Here	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
Pirie, Duncan V.	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Weir, James Galloway
Pollard, Dr.	Silcock, Thomas Ball	Whitbread, Howard
Price, C.E. (Edinburgh, Central)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	White, George (Norfolk)
Pullar, Sir Robert	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Raphael, Herbert H.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Redmond, John E. (Waterford	Spicer, Sir Albert	Whitehead Rowland
Rees, J. D.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.	Whiteley, John Henry (Halifax
Rendall, Athelstan	Strachey, Sir Edward	Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n
Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mp'n	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Richardson, A.	Summerbell, T.	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Rickett, J. Compton	Sutherland, J. E.	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Ridsdale, E. A.	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)	Winfrey, R.
Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Taylor, John W. (Durham)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Robertson, Sir G.Scott (Br'df'd	Tennant, Sir Edward (Salisbury	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Robinson, S.	Thomasson, Franklin
Roe, Sir Thomas	Torrance, Sir A. M.
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield
Ashley, W. W.	Craig, Captain James (Down, E.	Nield, Herbert
Balcarres, Lord	Craik, Sir Henry	Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond.	Dalrymple, Viscount	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Roberts,S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Forster, Henry William	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Baring, Hon. Guy Winchester	Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)	Starkey, John R.
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Haddock, George R.	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bowles, G. Stewart	Hamilton, Marquess of	Turnour, Viscount
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Carlile, E. Hildred	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Heaton, John Henniker	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.
Cave, George	Hervey, F. W. F. (Bury S. E'm'ds	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C. W.	Houston, Robert Paterson	Younger, George
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Hunt, Rowland
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.	Lane-Fox, G. R.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin,S.	Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Courthope, G. Loyd	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

Question put accordingly, "That the Clause be read a second time."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 50; Noes, 240. (Division List No. 76.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F	Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C.W.	Hamilton, Marquess of
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.
Balcarres, Lord	Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Heaton, John Henniker
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond	Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Ed'ds
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Houston, Robert Paterson
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Courthope, G. Loyd	Hunt, Rowland
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester	Craig, Captain James (Down, E.	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin,S.
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Craik, Sir Henry	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Bowles, G. Stewart	Dalrymple, Viscount	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield
Carlile, E. Hildred	Forster, Henry William	Nield, Herbert
Castlereagh, Viscount	Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)	Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)
Cave, George	Haddock, George R.	Randles, Sir John Seurrah
Roberts,S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)	Valentia, Viscount	Younger, George
Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)	Walrond, Hon. Lionel	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Starkey, John R.	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)	Mr. Ashley and Mr. Claude Hay.
Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)
Turnour, Viscount	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. stuart-
NOES.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Fenwick, Charles	M'Callum, John M.
Alden, Percy	Ferens, T. R.	M'Crae, George
Allen, A. Acland (Chistchurch)	Ffreneh, Peter	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	M'Kenna, Rt. Hon. Reginald
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Findlay, Alexander	M'Micking, Major G.
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Fuller, John Michael F.	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Atherley-Jones, L.	Fullerton, Hugh	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Marnham, F. J.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Ginnell, L.	Massie, J.
Barker, John	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Meehan, Patrick A.
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Glover, Thomas	Molteno, Percy Alport
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Grant, Corrie	Money, L. G. Chiozza
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	Montagu, E. S.
Belloc, Hilaire Joseph Peter R.	Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill	Mooney, J. J.
Benn, Sir J. Williams (Devonp't	Gulland, John W.	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)
Benn, W.(T'w'r H'mlets, S. Geo.	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Berridge, T. H. D.	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Morrell, Philip
Bertram, Julius	Harcourt, Right Hon. Lewis	Morse, L. L.
Bethell, Sir, J. H.(Essex, R'mf'rd	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Murphy, John
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Hart-Davies, T.	Murray, James
Billson, Alfred	Harwood, George	Nicholson, Charles N.(Doncast'r
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Hayden, John Patrick	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Black, Arthur W.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Boulton, A. C. F.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Nuttall, Harry
Brigg, John	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	O'Brien, Kendal (TipperaryMid
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Higham, John Sharp	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Brooke, Stopford	Hogan, Michael	O'Dowd, John
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Hooper, A. G.	O'Grady, J.
Burnyeat, W. J. D.	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	O'Malley, William
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Hudson, Walter	O'Shee, James John
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Idris, T. H. W.	Palmer, Sir Charles Mark
Byles, William Pollard	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Parker, James (Halifax)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Jardine, Sir J.	Partington, Oswald
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Jenkins, J.	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Cheetham, John Frederick	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea	Pearce, William (Limehouse)
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)
Clough, William	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Clynes, J. R.	Jowett, F. W.	Pirie, Duncan V.
Coats, Sir T.Glen (Renfrew, W.)	Kearley, Hudson E.	Pollard, Dr.
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Kekewich, Sir George	Price,C. (Edinburgh, Central)
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Kelley, George D.	Pullar, Sir Robert
Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E. Gr'st'd)	Kilbride, Denis	Raphael, Herbert H.
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Redmond, John E. (Waterford
Crean, Eugene	Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster	Rees, J. D.
Cremer, William Randal	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Rendall, Athelstan
Crombie, John William	Lambert, George	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mp'n
Crooks, William	Lamont, Norman	Richardson, A.
Crosfield, A. H.	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Rickett, J. Compton
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington	Ridsdale, E. A.
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Lever, W.H. (Cheshire, Wirral)	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Lewis, John Herbert	Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'd
Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras, N	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Dobson, Thomas W.	Lough, Thomas	Robinson, S.
Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness	Lupton, Arnold	Roe, Sir Thomas
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Rose, Charles Day
Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Rowlands, J.
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs)	Runciman, Walter
Elibank, Master of	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward	Maclean, Donald	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Essex, R. W.	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Esslemont, George Birnie	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Scott, A.H. (Ashton under Lyne
Everett, R. Lacey	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Seaverns, J. H.
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)	Seely, Major J. B.

Shackleton, David James	Tennant, Sir Edward (Salisbury	Whitbread, Howard
Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)	Thomas, Sir A.(Glamorgan, E.)	White, George (Norfolk)
Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr)	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Shipman, Dr. John G.	Thomasson, Franklin	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Silcock, Thomas Ball	Torrance, Sir A. M.	Whitehead, Rowland
Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	Toulmin, George	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.	Trevelyan, Charles Philips	Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n
Soames, Arthur Wellesley	Verney, F. W.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Spicer, Sir Albert	Wadsworth, J.	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Stewart, Halley (Greenock)	Walsh, Stephen	Winfrey, R.
Strachey, Sir Edward	Walters, John Tudor	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Straus, B. S. (Mile End)	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Summerbell, T.	Wardle, George J.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Sutherland, J. E.	Waring, Walter	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Taylor, John W. (Durham)	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	Weir, James Galloway

MR. ASHLEY

said he wished to move another new clause with reference to fraudulent enlistment. He proposed to omit in paragraph 8, Sub-section 1, Section 13, the words "obtain a regular discharge there from or otherwise." He moved this new clause for two reasons. In the clause as it stood there were, in his opinion, words which were redundant, and which therefore ought not to be retained. In his new clause it was said that a man must fulfil the conditions to enable him to enlist; and therefore he saw no necessity why it should be said that he must "have obtained a regular discharge from the Regular Forces." He must have done so to fulfil the conditions. As the clause stood it would be practically impossible for an officer who belonged to the Regular Force to join a local force such as was raised in 1897 during the South African War without coming under the dire pains and penalties of imprisonment, and, if he did it twice, of penal servitude.

New Clause (Amendment of Army Act as to Fraudulent Enlistment)—(Mr. Ashley)—brought up, and read the first time.

Motion made, and Question proposed: "That the clause be read a second time."

MR. HALDANE

said he could not gather what was the purpose of the hon. Member in moving the new clause. The words he proposed to strike out were the very essence of the clause. If a man enlisted in two corps he disturbed the situation in a way which introduced great confusion, and consequently it had been made a specific offence to enlist in another corps without having first

obtained a regular discharge from the one he joined first. The Government could not, therefore, consent to having the clause cut down.

VISCOUNT TURNOUR

thought the clause, as it stood, imposed rather hard restrictions upon officers of the Auxiliary Forces. He called particular attention to the words "or any force raised in India or the Colonies," and asked what was the definition of the word "Force" in that connection. He was in the Yeomanry. Supposing he went into the Colonies and joined a rifle club, the members of which drilled together, would he be guilty of having joined a force raised in the Colony without first obtaining his discharge from the Yeomanry?

MR. HALDANE

Of course it must be a regular corps.

SIR F. BANBURY

said the right hon. Gentleman had told them he could not accept the new clause because, if a man enlisted in two different corps, it caused confusion and no doubt showed the nominal strength greater than the actual strength. That seemed to be a fallacious argument. Supposing they adopted the new clause; what would happen? They would be putting the Auxiliary Forces on the same footing; as the Regular Forces. Was not that what the right hon. Gentleman was; trying to do in his scheme? Was he not trying to make the Army one homogeneous whole? He thought, if the right hon. Gentleman further considered the matter, he would see that his hon. friend was right. He would put another point to the right hon. Gentleman. The Militia was going to be abolished. What was the use, therefore, of making a special provision for a corps which was not going to exist?

*THE CHAIRMAN

Order, order. I do not consider that kind of argument is in order. We have to take things as they are.

SIR F. BANBURY

said that he understood from the Chairman's ruling that they could not go into the whole question of what would happen under the now scheme, but his argument was that, supposing the new scheme came into

existence, there was no reason why the Militia and the Yeomanry should be put in a different position from that of the Regular Army.

MR. HALDANE

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 244; Noes, 57. (Division List No. 77.)

AYES.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Jackson, R. S.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Jardine, Sir J.
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles	Jenkins, J.
Atherley-Jones, L.	Dobson, Thomas W.	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Jones, Leif (Appleby)
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury,E.)	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	Jowett, F. W.
Barker, John	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Kearley, Hudson E.
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Elibank, Master of	Kekewich, Sir George
Barnard, E. B.	Essex, R. W.	Kelley, George D.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Esslemont, George Birnie	Kilbride, Denis
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.	Everett, R. Lacey	Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster
Beale, W. P.	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Benn, Sir J. Williams (Devonp't	Ferens, T. R.	Lambert, George
Berridge, T. H. D.	Ferguson, R. C. Munro	Lamont, Norman
Bertram, Julius	Ffrench, Peter	Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E.
Bethell, Sir J.H. (Essex, R'mf'd	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accr'gton)
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Findlay, Alexander	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich
Billson, Alfred	Fuller, John Michael F.	Lewis, John Herbert
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Fullerton, Hugh	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David
Black, Arthur W.	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Lough, Thomas
Boulton, A. C. F.	Ginnell, L.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Bowerman, C. W.	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Bramsdon, T. A.	Glover, Thomas	Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Bg'hs
Brigg, John	Grant, Corrie	Mackarness, Frederic C.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	Maclean, Donald
Brooke, Stopford	Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill	Macnarmara, Dr. Thomas J.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Gulland, John W.	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Gwynn, Stephen Lucius	MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	M'Callum, John M.
Byles, William Pollard	Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis	M'Crae, George
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	M'Micking, Major G.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Hart-Davies, T.	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Harwood, George	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)
Clough, William	Hayden, John Patrick	Marnham, F. J.
Clynes, J. R.	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Massie, J.
Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)	Healy, Timothy Michael	Meehan, Patrick A.
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Micklem, Nathaniel
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Henry, Charles S.	Molteno, Percy Alport
Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E. Grn'st'd	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Money, L. G. Chiozza
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Higham, John Sharp	Montagu, E. S.
Crean, Eugene	Hobart, Sir Robert	Mooney, J. J.
Crooks, William	Hogan, Michael	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)
Crosfield, A. H.	Hooper, A. G.	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	Morrell, Philip
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan)	Hope, W. Bateman (Somerset, N	Morse, L. L.
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Hudson, Walter	Murphy, John
Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)	Idris, T. H. W.	Murray, James
Nicholson, CharlesN(Doncast'r	Robertson, Sir G.Scott(Bradf'rd	Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)
Norman, Sir Henry	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Robinson, S.	Thorne, William
Nussey, Thomas Willans	Roe, Sir Thomas	Torranc, Sir A. M.
Nuttall, Harry	Rose, Charles Day	Toulmin, George
O'Brien, Kendal(TipperaryMid	Rowlands, J.	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Runciman, Walter	Verney, F. W.
O'Dowd, John	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Wadsworth, J.
O'Grady, J.	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
O'Malley, William	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Walsh, Stephen
Palmer, Sir Charles Mark	Scott, A. H. (Ashton under Lyne	Walters, John Tudor
Parker, James (Halifax)	Seaverns, J. H.	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Partington, Oswald	Seely, Major J. B.	Wardle, George J.
Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Shackleton, David James	Waring, Walter
Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick B.)	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Weir, James Galloway
Pirie, Duncan V.	Silcock, Thomas Ball	Whitbread, Howard
Pollard, Dr.	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	White, George (Norfolk)
Price, C.E.(Edinb'gh, Central)	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Pullar, Sir Robert	Soames, Arthur Wellesley	Whitehead, Rowland
Raphael, Herbert H.	Spicer, Sir Albert	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Redmond, John E. (Waterford	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)	Williams, Llewelyn(Carm'rth'n
Redmond, William (Clare)	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Rees, J. D.	Strachey, Sir Edward	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Rendall, Athelstan	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n	Summerbell, T.	Winfrey, R.
Richardson, A.	Sutherland, J. E.	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Rickett, J. Compton	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Ridsdale, E. A.	Taylor, John W. (Durham)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Robertson, Rt. Hn. E.(Dundee	Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury
NOES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Dalrymple, Viscount	Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield)
Ashley, W. W.	Fell, Arthur	Nield, Herbert
Balcarres, Lord	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(City Lond.	Forster, Henry William	Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Haddock, George R.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)	Hamilton, Marquess of	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Bowles, G. Stewart	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Starkey, John R.
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Heaton, John Henniker	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Carlile, E. Hildred	Helmsley, Viscount	Turnour, Viscount
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Cave, George	Houston, Robert Paterson	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W	Hunt, Rowland	Wilson, A. Stanley(York, E.R.)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Younger, George
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin,S.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia
Courthope, G. Loyd	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Craik, Sir Henry	Muntz, Sir Philip A.

Question put accordingly, "That the Clause be read a second time."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 57; Noes, 252. (Division List No. 78)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F	Bowles, G. Stewart	Corbett, T. L. Down, North)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Bridgeman, W. Clive	Courthope, G. Loyd
Ashley, W. W.	Carlile, E. Hildred	Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.
Balcarres, Lord	Castlereagh, Viscount	Craik, Sir Henry
Balfour, Rt Hn. A. J. (City Lond.	Cave, George	Dalrymple, Viscount
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Fell, Arthur
Banner, John S. Harmood	Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)	Cecil, Lord R (Marylebone, E.)	Forster, Henry William
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Coates, E. Feetham(Lewisham)	Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West
Haddock, George R.	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Turnour, Viscount
Hamilton, Marquess of	Mason, James F. (Windsor)	Valentia, Viscount
Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Hay, Hon. Claude George	Muntz, Sir Philip A.	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Heaton, John Henniker	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)	Wilson, A. Stanley(York, E.R.)
Helmsley, Viscount	Nield, Herbert	Younger, George
Hervey, F.W.F(BuryS. Edm'ds	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Houston, Robert Paterson	Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)	TEELLRS FOR THE AYES—
Hunt, Rowland	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp	Mr. Roberts and Mr. Watson Rutherford.
Lane-Fox, G. R	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Lockwood, Rt. H0n. Lt.-Col. A. R	Starkey, John R.
Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin,S.	Talbot, Lord (E. Chichester)
NOES.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness)	Kelley, George D.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Kilbride, Denis
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Edwards, Clement (Dsenbigh)	Lamb, Edmund G.(Leominster
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Atherley-Jones, L.	Elibank, Master of	Lambert, George
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Essex, R. W.	Lamont, Norman
Baker, Joseph A.(Finsbury, E.)	Esslemont, George Birnie	Lea, Hugh Cecil(St. Pancras, E.)
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Everett, R. Lacey	Leese, SirJosephF.(Accrington)
Barker, John	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Lever, A Levy(Essex, Harwich)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Fenwick, Charles	Lewis, John Herbert
Barnard, E. B.	Ferens, T. R.	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Ferguson, R. C. Munro	Lough, Thomas
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Ffrench, Peter	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Beale, W. P.	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Benn, Sir J. Williams(Devonp'rt	Findlay, Alexander	Macdonald, J.M.(FalkirkB'ghs
Berridge, T. H. D.	Fuller, John Michael F.	Mackarness, Frederic C.
Bertram, Julius	Fullerton, Hugh	Maclean, Donald
Bethell, Sir J. H (Essex, R'mf'rd)	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Ginnell, L.	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift
Billson, Alfred	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. HerbertJohn	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Glover, Thomas	MacVeigh, Charles(Donegal, E.)
Black, Arthur W.	Grant, Corrie	M'Callum, John M.
Boulton, A. C. F.	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	M'Crae, George
Bramsdon, T. A.	Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Brigg, John	Gulland, John W.	M'Micking, Major G,
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	Mallet, Charles E.
Brooke, Stopford	Gwynn, Stephen Lucius	Manfield, Harry-(Northants)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis	Marnham, F. J.
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Massie, J.
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	Meehan, Patrick A.
Byles, William Pollard	Hart-Davies, T.	Micklem, Nathaniel
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Harwood, George	Molteno, Percy Alport
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Hayden, John Patrick	Money, L. G. Chiozza
Cheetham, John Frederick	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Montague, E. S.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Healy, Timothy Michael	Mooney, J. J.
Churchill, Winston Spencer	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)
Clough, William	Henry, Charles S.	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Clynes, J. R.	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Morrell, Philip
Coats, Sir T.Glen (Renfrew, W.)	Higham, Sharp John	Morse, L. L.
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Hobart, Sir Robert	Murphy, John
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Hogan, Michael	Murray, James
Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E Grinst'd	Hooper, A. G.	Nicholson, CharlesN(Doncast'r
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	Norman, Sir Henry
Crean, Eugene	Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N.	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Cremer, William Randal	Hudson, Walter	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Crooks, William	Hyde, Clarendon	Nuttall, Harry
Dalziel, James Henry	Idris, T. H. W.	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipper'ryMid)
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Jackson, R. S.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Jardine, Sir J.	O'Dowd, John
Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)	Jenkins, J.	O'Grady, J.
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea)	O'Malley, William
Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras,	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Palmer, Sir Charles Mark
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.	Parker, James (Halifax)
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles	Jowett, F. W.	Partington, Oswald
Dobson, Thomas W.	Kearley, Hudson E.	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Duckworth, James	Kekewich, Sir George	Pearce, William (Limehouse)

Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Seaverns, J. H.	Wadsworth, J.
Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Seely, Major J. B.	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Pirie, Duncan V.	Shackleton, David James	Walsh, Stephen
Pollard, Dr.	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)	Walters, John Tudor
Price, C.E. (Edinb'gh, Central)	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Pullar, Sir Robert	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Wardle, George J.
Raphael, Herbert H.	Silcock, Thomas Ball	Waring, Walter
Redmond, John E. (Waterford	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Redmond, William (Clark)	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Rees, J. D.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley	Weir, James Galloway
Rendall, Athelstan	Spicer, Sir Albert	Whitbread, Howard
Richards, T.F.(Wolverh'mpt'n	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph(Chesh.)	White, George (Norfolk)
Richardson, A.	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Rickett, J. Compton	Strachey, Sir Edward	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Ridsdale, E. A.	Sstraus, B. S. (Mile End)	Whitehead, Rowland
Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Summerbell, T.	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)	Sutherland, J. E.	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Robertson, SirG. Scott(Bradf'rd	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Taylor, John W. (Durham)	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Robinson, S.	Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Roe, Sir Thomas	Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury	Winfrey, R.
Rose, Charles Day	Thomas, Sir A (Glamorgan, E.)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Rowlands, J.	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Runciman, Walter	Thorne, William	TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—.
Rutherford, V. H.(Brentford)	Torrance, Sir A. M.	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease
Samuel, HerbertL. (Cleveland)	Toulmin, George
Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Scott, A. H. (Ashton-und.-Lyne	Verney, F. W.

MR. ASHLEY

moved as a new clause to insert in Clause 97 of the Army Act after the word "attestation" the words "in a non-European corps." He pointed out that under the Army Act a master in the United Kingdom could regain the services of an apprentice if he enlisted in His Majesty's Regular Army before the conclusion of his term of indenture. The object of his new clause was to ensure that a master in England should not have preferential treatment over a master in one of our Colonies. He was sure that hon. Members opposite, who always wished to be fair to everybody and did not often succeed, would see that if his clause were accepted by the Committee it would enable a master in the Colonies to recover the services of an apprentice if he absconded and enlisted in a native regiment, just as a master at home could recover his apprentice's services. He could not conceive anybody objecting to pass such a clause. Why should a master who had an indentured labourer working for him lose the services of that labourer, and not be able to get him back, if he absconded and enlisted in one of the native corps which were scattered all over the Empire—in Hong Kong, Singapore, the West Indies, and other places?

New Clause (Amendment of Section 97, Army Act, as to indentured

labourers)—(Mr. Ashley)—brought up' and read the first time.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the clause be read a second time."

MR. HALDANE

found it difficult to discover what the purpose of the hon. Member was in moving this alteration in the law. There was no distinction in principle between Clauses 96 and 97. If a young man below twenty-one who was an apprentice, enlisted in the Army, he could be reclaimed under certain conditions. He saw no need for differentiation between a European and a non-European corps.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

thought the point raised by the Member for Blackpool was a very valuable one. To make the provisions in Clauses 96 and 97 clearer, he would suggest the insertion of the words "whether in a European or non-European corps."

*THE DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN (Mr. Caldwell)

pointed out that the question before the Committee was that the clause be read a second time. When it was read a second time would be the time to amend it.

SIR F. BANBURY

said the Secretary for War did not evidently understand his own Act, because he had said that the result of the alteration which his hon. friend had proposed would be to put the indentured labourer in a different position from the apprentice. But it would do nothing of the kind. What it really meant was that the provisions of the Act not having been made sufficiently elastic to cover the case of forces regular and irregular which were serving in the Colonies, non-European forces serving in the Colonies could not come under it. It was very clear that something of the sort must be inserted in the clause, or else they would be in the position that an indentured labourer who left his employer and went into the native force at Hong Kong or in some parts of India—

*THE DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN

Order, order. The simple question is whether this clause shall be limited to enlistment in a non-European corps or not.

SIR F. BANBURY

thought it an extremely good argument in favour of

the proposed clause that the Army Act was not clear at present. When the clause was passed it could be amended so as to make the matter perfectly clear.

MR. CLAUDE HAY

considered that the discussion had made it quite clear that the new clause moved by his hon. friend was one of considerable importance. It was essential that the Committee should know exactly where it was in limiting or extending the conditions under which indentured labourers might be either taken for military purposes as in this case—

*THE DEPUTY-CHAIRMAN

These general observations are not relevant to the question before the Committee. The question is that this clause be read a second time.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 57, Noes, 261. (Division List No. 79.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir AlexF.	Duncan, Robert(Lanark, Govan	Nield, Herbert
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Fell, Arthur	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Balcarres, Lord	Forster, Henry William	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Haddock, George R.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Banner, John S. Harmood	Hamilton, Marquess of	Roberts, S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Starkey, John R.
Bowles, G. Stewart	Heaton, John Henniker	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive.	Helmsley, Viscount	Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Lanark)
Carlile, E. Hildred	Hervey, F.W.F(Bury S. Edm'ds	Turnour, Viscount
Castlereagh, Viscount	Houston, Robert Paterson	Valentia, Viscount
Cave, George	Hunt, Rowland	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W.	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Long, Col. Charles W (Evesham	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin,S.	Younger, George
Coates, E. Feetham(Lewisham)	Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Mason, James F.(Windsor)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Courthope, G. Loyd	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Mr. Ashley and Sir Gilbert Parker.
Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)	Middlemore, John Throgmorton
Craik, Sir Henry	Muntz, Sir Philip A.
Dalrymple, Viscount	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)
NOES.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Barnard, E. B.	Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)
Agnew, George William	Barnes, G. N.	Billson, Alfred
Allen, A.Acland (Christchurch)	Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Black, Arthur W.
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Beale, W. P.	Bottomley, Horatio
Asquith, Rt. Hn. HerbertHenry	Bell, Richard	Boulton, A. C. F.
Atherley-Jones, L.	Bellairs, Carlyon	Bramsdon, T. A.
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Benn, Sir J. Williams(Devonp'rt	Brigg, John
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.	Benn, W(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Brocklehurst, W. B.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Berridge, T. H. D.	Brooke, Stopford
Barker, John	Bertram, Julius	Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Bethell, Sir J.H.(Essex, Romf'rd	Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas
Byles, William Pollard	Hudson, Walter	Pearce, William (Limehouse)
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Hutton, Alfred Eddison	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Hyde, Clarendon	Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Cheetham, John Frederick	Idris, T. H. W.	Pirie, Duncan V.
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Jackson, R. S.	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)
Clough, William	Jardine, Sir J.	Pullar, Sir Robert
Clynes, J. R.	Jenkins, J.	Raphael, Herbert H.
Coats, SiR T.Glen(Renfrew, W.)	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Jones, Sir D. Brynmor(Swansea	Redmond, William (Clare)
Corbett, C H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Rees, J. D.
Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Jones, William(Carnarvonshire	Rendall, Athelstan
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Jowett, F. W.	Richards, T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n
Crean, Eugene	Kearley, Hudson, E.	Richardson, A.
Cremer, William Randal	Kekewich, Sir George	Rickett, J. Compton
Crooks, William	Kelley, George D.	Ridsdale, E. A.
Crosfield, A. H.	Kennedy, Vincent Paul	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Dalziel, James Henry	Kilbride, Denis	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster	Robertson, Sir G.Scott(Bradf'rd
Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan)	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Lambert, George	Robinson, S.
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Lamont, Norman	Roche, John (Galway, East)
Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)	Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E.	Roe, Sir Thomas
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington	Rose, Charles Day
Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras. N.	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)	Rowlands, J.
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Lewis, John Herbert	Runciman, Walter
Dillon, John	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Dobson, Thomas W.	Lough, Thomas	Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland)
Duckworth, James	Lupton, Arnold	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Seaverns, J. H.
Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs.	Seely, Major J. B.
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Shackleton, David James
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Maclean, Donald	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Elibank, Master of	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.)
Essex, R. W.	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Esslemont, George Birnie	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Everett, R. Lacey	McVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	M'Callum, John M.	Smyth, Thomas F.(Leitrim, S.)
Fenwick, Charles	M'Crae, George	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Ferens, T. R.	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Spicer, Sir Alfred
Ferguson, R. C. Munro	M'Micking, Major G.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Ffrench, Peter	Mallet, Charles E.	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Strachey, Sir Edward
Findlay, Alexander	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Fuller, John Michael F.	Marnham, F. J.	Summerbell, T.
Fullerton, Hugh	Massie, J.	Sutherland, J. E.
Gibb, James (Harrow)	Meehan, Patrick A.	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Ginnell, L.	Micklem, Nathaniel	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Molteno, Percy Alport	Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe)
Glover, Thomas	Money, L. G. Chiozza	Thomas, Sir A.(Glamorgan, E.)
Grant, Corrie	Montagu, E. S.	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Greenwood, Hamar (York)	Mooney, J. J.	Thorne, William
Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Gulland, John W.	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)	Toulmin, George
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	Morrell, Philip	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Gwynn, Stephen Lucius	Morse, L. L.	Verney, F. W.
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Murphy, John	Wadsworth, J.
Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil	Murray, James	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Napier, T. B.	Walsh, Stephen
Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	Nicholson, Charles N.(Doncast'r	Walters, John Tudor
Hart-Davies, T.	Nolan, Joseph	Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)
Harwood, George	Norman, Sir Henry	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Hayden, John Patrick	Norton, Captain Cecil William	Wardle, George J.
Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Waring, Walter
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Nuttall, Harry	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Henry, Charles S.	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary, Mid	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Weir, James Galloway
Higham, John Sharp	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)	Whitbread, Howard
Hobart, Sir Robert	O'Dowd, John	White, George (Norfolk)
Hogan, Michael	Palmer, Sir Charles Mark	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Hooper, A. G.	Parker, James (Halifax)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	Partington, Oswald	Whitehead, Rowland
Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N)	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)

Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)	Winfrey, R.
Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon

MR. COURTHOPE

moved a new clause repealing Clause 187 of the Army Act. He explained that the clause dealt with the application of the Army Act to the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man. If it were examined in connection with the early clauses of the Army Annual Bill some very curious inconsistencies would be revealed. In the second clause of the Bill the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man were grouped with the United Kingdom in regard to the date when the Act should come into force, but in Clause 187, with which he was dealing, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man for certain purposes in the Act were to be deemed to be Colonies. Clause 2 of the Bill provided that in the Colonies the Act should come into force on 31st July. Therefore, there was this curious state of things—that, for certain purposes, viz., for the purposes of the regular forces in the Channel Islands, the Act should come into force on one day, and for the purposes of the Auxiliary Forces in the same islands the Act should come into force on another day. By Clause 186 it was provided that under certain conditions the Auxiliary Forces should be deemed to be part of His Majesty's Forces within the meaning of the Act. Therefore, there was hopeless complexity. In the Isle of Man the state of things was similar, although not identical. The Isle of Man was a colony for the purposes of the Militia, but not for the Auxiliary Forces. Thus, for Militia purposes the Act would come into force on one date, and for all other purposes on a different date. He submitted that that was a very undesirable state of things and would cause great confusion. He failed to find any reason for this extraordinary state of things, and it seemed to him that Clause 187 should be cut out. The effect of the clause would be that the existing inconsistencies would be done away with without any inconvenience to the Forces of the Crown or to those who administered them.

New Clause (Repeal of Section 187 of Army Act)—(Mr. Courthope.)—Brought up, and read the first time.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the clause be read a second time."

MR. HALDANE

said the hon. Member was under an illusion. This clause of the Army Act did not apply to any place to which it was not extended by the Army Annual Act. The Army Annual Act had its own provisions with regard to the time of application. When the Army Act did apply, there were certain modifications of its provisions for the purpose of adapting the machinery of the General Act. If they took Clause 187 they found that, while the Act prima faciedid apply to the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man, as regarded billeting and impressment of carriages, which was one subject by itself, the provisions of the Act were not extended either to the Channel Islands or to the Isle of Man. As regarded sentences of penal servitude these islands were deemed to be Colonies. For the purposes of the Auxiliary Forces they were made Colonies also, and that took the Auxiliary Forces out of the establishment of the British Militia and other Forces of the Crown. When the principal Act applied, these particular modifications were made for this specific purpose. It would be found that the principal Act and the Army Annual Act were quite harmonious.

SIR F. BANBURY

thought he understood the explanation of the Secretary of State for War. The right hon. Gentleman did not wish the Militia in the Isle of Man to come under the Army Annual Act, but he wished to preserve that body as an independent force under the command of the Governor.

MR. HALDANE

I was not touching that question; I was only taking it as a particular case of the alteration under the Army Annual Bill. I see no reason for disagreeing with the statement of my hon. friend that in the Isle of Man the Militia for certain purposes would not be under the provisions of the Army Act.

SIR F. BANBURY

considered that that was an extremely awkward predicament for the Militia to be in, for they would find great difficulty in discovering whether they were under the provisions of the Army Annual Act or not. The officers, might be able to understand the extreme technicality of the Act, but the poor ordinary Militiaman would not. They would, no doubt, find that they had committed offences which, if they had understood the Army Annual Act, they would not have committed. The right hon. Gentleman had said that the clause which it was proposed to omit exempted from impressment of carriages and billeting the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. But what were the objections to provisions as to billeting andimpressment of carriages applying to those islands? If the provisions were good, why should they not be operative there also? He could see no reason why, if troops required the use of carriages, carts, wagons and accommodation, they should not be able to have them in the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man as elsewhere. Unless some better explanation were given by the Secretary for War as to why he objected to the new clause, he should certainly support it.

MR. CLAUDE HAY

considered that it was abundantly clear from the speech of the right hon. Gentleman that it would be very difficult for persons unaccustomed to the language in which these documents were couched to understand the clause. He therefore appealed to the Secretary for War to find words, before the Report stage, which would make it quite clear to all the Forces how they stood in the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands with respect to billeting and other provisions in Clause 187 of the Army Act. It seemed somewhat ridiculous that in those two parts of the King's dominions there should be no provision for impressment of carriages and for billeting when necessary.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 54; Noes, 262. (Division List No. 80).

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Rt Hn. Sir Alex. F.	Dalrymple, Viscount	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Ashley, W. W.	Fell, Arthur	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Balcarres, Lord	Forster, Henry William	Roberts,S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Haddock, George R.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Banner, John S. Harmood	Hamilton, Marquess of	Starkey, John R.
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Helmeley, Viscount	Thomson, W. Mitchell (Lanark)
Bowles, G. Stewart	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Turnour, Viscount
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Houston, Robert Paterson	Valentia, Viscount
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Hunt, Rowland	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Carlile, E. Hildred	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Long, Col. Charles W.(Evesham	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Cave, George	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin,S.	Younger, George
Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C.W.	Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Cecil, Lord R.(Marylebone, E.)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)	Tellers for the Ayes.—Mr. Courthope and Mr. Claude Hay.
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Middlemore, John Throgmorton
Craig, Captain James (Down, E.	Muntz, Sir Philip A.
Craik, Sir Henry	Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield)
NOES.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Beale, W. P.	Brocklehurst, W. B.
Agnew, George William	Bell, Richard	Brooke, Stopford
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch)	Bellairs, Carlyon	Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Benn, Sir J. Williams(Devonp'rt	Burns, Rt. Hon. John
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Benn,W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas
Asquith, Rt. Hon. HerbertHenry	Berridge, T. H. D.	Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles
Atherley-Jones, L.	Bertram, Julius	Byles, William Pollard
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Bethell, Sir J.H.(Eesex, Romf'rd	Cawley, Sir Frederick
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.	Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Channing, Sir Francie Allston
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Billson, Alfred	Cheetham, John Frederick
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Black, Arthur W.	Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.
Barber, John	Bottomley, Horatio	Clancy, John Joseph
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Boulton, A. C. F.	Clough, William
Barnes G. N.	Bowerman, C. W.	Clynes, J. R.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Bramsdon, T. A.	Coats, Sir T.Glen (Renfrew,W.)
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.	Brigg, John	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)
Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Richards, T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n
Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	Richardson, A.
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Jowett, F. W.	Rickett, J. Compton.
Crean, Eugene	Kearley, Hudson E.	Ridsdale, E. A.
Cremer, William Randal	Kekewich, Sir George	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Crooks, William	Kelley, George D.	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E.(Dundee)
Crosfield, A. H.	Kennedy, Vincent Paul	Robertson, Sir G. Scott(Bradfr'd
Dalziel, James Henry	Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Lamy, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Robinson, S.
Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan	Lamont, Norman	Roche, John (Gal way, East)
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E.	Roe, Sir Thomas
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Leese, Sir JosephF.(Accrington	Rose, Charles Day
Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)	Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich	Rowlands, J.
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Lewis, John Herbert	Runciman, Walter
Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras, N.	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Lough, Thomas	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Dillon, John	Lupton, Arnold	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Dobson, Thomas W.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Scott, A.H. (Ashton underLyne
Duckworth, James	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Seaverns, J. H.
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs	Shackleton, David James
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	Maclean, Donald	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Elibank, Master of	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Essex, R. W.	MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Esslemont, George Birnie	M'Callum, John M.	Snowden, P.
Everett, R. Lacey	M'Crae, George	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Spicer, Sir Albert
Fenwick, Charles	M'Micking, Major G.	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.
Ferens, T. R.	Mallet, Charles E.	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Ferguson, R. C. Munro	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Strachey, Sir Edward
Ffrench, Peter	Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston)	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Massie, J.	Summerbell, T.
Findlay, Alexander	Meehan, Patrick A.	Sutherland, J. E.
Fuller, John Michael F.	Micklem, Nathaniel	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Fullerton, Hugh	Molteno, Percy Alport	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Gibb, James (Harrow)	Money, L. G. Chiozza	Taylor, Theodore, C. (Radcliffe)
Gill, A. H.	Montagu, E. S.	Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)
Ginnell, L.	Mooney, J. J.	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Thomasson, Franklin
Glover, Thomas	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Grant, Corrie	Morrell, Philip	Toulmin, George
Greenwood, Hamer (York)	Morse, L. L.	Verney, F. W.
Gulland, John W.	Murphy, John	Wadsworth, J.
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	Murray, James	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Gwynn, Stephen Lucius	Napier, T. B.	Walsh, Stephen
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r	Walters, John Tudor
Halpin, J.	Nolan, Joseph	Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)
Hardie, J. Keir(Merthyr Tydvil	Norman, Sir Henry	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Wardle, George J.
Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Waring, Walter
Hart-Davies, T.	Nuttall, Harry	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Harwood, George	O'Brien, Kendal (TipperaryMid	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Hayden, John Patrick	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Weir, James Galloway
Hazel, Dr. A. E.	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)	Whitbread, Howard
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	O'Dowd, John	White, George (Norfolk)
Henry, Charles S.	O'Malley, William	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Parker, James (Halifax)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Higham, John Sharp	Partington, Oswald	Whitehead, Rowland
Hobart, Sir Robert	Paul, Herbert	Whiteley, John Henry(Halifax)
Hogan, Michael	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Wilkie, Alexander
Hooper, A. G.	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N.	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Hudson, Walter	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Hutton, Alfred Eddison	Pirie, Duncan V.	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Hyde, Clarendon	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)	Winfrey, R.
Idris, T. H. W.	Pullar, Sir Robert	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Jackson, R. S.	Raphael, Herbert H.
Jardine, Sir J.	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Jenkins, J.	Redmond, William (Clare)	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A Pease.
Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Rees, J. D.
Jones, Sir D. Brynmor(Swansea	Rendall, Athelstan

CAPTAIN CRAIG

moved a new clause, the effect of which was to increase the penalty provided in sub-section 4 of Clause 98 of the Act, on a summary conviction, for interfering with the recruiting of his Majesty's forces from £20 to £50, or three months imprisonment. He wished to lay special stress upon the seriousness of the crime of directly or indirectly interfering with recruiting. In certain parts of Ireland the present fine had proved insufficient to prevent seditious literature being circulated and intimidation practised. The men who, undeterred by that intimidation had joined the territorial regiments in Ireland had proved to be as good soldiers as served anywhere in His Majesty's dominions; therefore his remarks must not be considered as casting any reflection upon such well known honourable regiments as they had in Ireland. Recruits from all sections of the population having once accepted service proved themselves—

*THE CHAIRMAN

said he could not allow this new clause to be made an excuse for dealing with the Irish recruiting question. The hon. and gallant Member must confine himself to the question whether or not the penalty for interference with recruiting should be altered.

MR. JAMES CAMPBELL (Dublin University)

asked whether the hon. and gallant Member was not entitled to show the extent of the mischief.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said he did not think that was the proper time to go into the question of Irish recruiting.

MR. JAMES CAMPBELL

asked when would be the proper time. It seemed impossible that there could be a more suitable or reasonable opportunity for considering the matter than when a clause was moved which aimed directly at the prevention of interference with enlistment.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said the question was simply whether or not the penalty should be increased.

CAPTAIN CRAIG

said that under the circumstances he could do no more than formally move his proposed new clause.

New clause (Additional Penalty on interference with recruiting)—(Captain Craig.)—brought up and read a first time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the clause be read a second time.

MR. T. L. CORBETT

said that although the new clause proposed to increase the penalty for interfering with recruiting, under the ruling of the Chair they were not allowed to give any reason why the penalty should be increased. That seemed to be a very hard ruling—

*THE CHAIRMAN

said the hon. Member must not criticise the ruling of the Chair. Under the circumstances in which the House was sitting he thought he was perfectly justified in refusing to allow the question of recruiting in Ireland to be discussed on that occasion.

MR. T. L. CORBETT

said it was a curious thing that the Chairman should accept a clause dealing with an increased penalty for interference with recruiting, and then refuse to allow proof to be brought of such interference.

*THE CHAIRMAN

The hon. Member must not criticise my ruling.

MR. T. L. CORBETT

I bow to your ruling, Sir.

MR. JAMES CAMPBELL

pointed out that the object of the new clause was to make more real and effective the existing enactment in the Army Act in reference to any attempt to interfere, directly or indirectly, with recruiting for His Majesty's Army. In order to keep within the ruling of the Chair, he would avoid going into detail, but in Ireland there existed at present an anti-enlistment crusade carried on by secret means, and the only available method of dealing with it was to deal with the persons who circulated anti-enlistment pamphlets and posted up intimidatory notices. More stringent measures were absolutely essential if they were to preserve what in the past had been one of the most fertile recruiting grounds for men who had proved a credit to their native land and to the Empire. Public opinion was not the same in Ireland as here, and the whole pressure of powerful political organisations was behind the men carrying on the anti-recruiting crusade. The humble men who might be encouraged to enlist were often quite incapable of resisting the pressure. The matter was one of the most serious that could be raised on the Army Bill, the agitation having already done great injury to recruiting in the Army. Had a representative of the Irish Government been present he would have asked whether the practice enforced by the late Administration, under which they took into custody persons caught in the act of posting intimidatory or seditious notices, had been countermanded by a circular of His Majesty's advisers. Instead of checking the evil, the Government were practically giving increased facilities to the persons engaged in that seditious and anti-enlisting crusade.

*THE CHAIRMAN

reminded the right hon. Gentleman that they were not now discussing the action of His Majesty's Government, and he must confine himself to the necessity for increasing the penalty.

MR. JAMES CAMPBELL

said he would content himself with pressing upon the Committee the strong necessity for dealing by legislation with the daily increasing seditious agitation in Ireland, the avowed purpose of which was to exclude all Irishmen from service in His Majesty's forces, naval or military.

MR. J. MACVEAGH

pointed out that the pamphlet by means of which it was said the anti enlistment crusade was carried on was really a reprint from the Annual Report of the Registrar-General on the morality of the Army. And as to the alleged secret means, the pamphlets were issued by the Irish Unionist Alliance, of Grafton Street, Dublin.

MR. BUCHANAN

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 272, Noes, 57. (Division List No. 81.)

AYES.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Brooke, Stopford	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)
Armitage, R.	Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)
Atherley-Jones, L.	Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas.	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Byles, William Pollard	Elibank, Master of
Baker, Joseph A.(Finsbury, E.)	Cawley, Sir Frederick	Essex, R. W.
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Esslemont, George Birnie
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Cheetham, John Frederick	Everett, R. Lacey
Barker, John	Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Faber, G. H. (Boston)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Clancy, John Joseph	Fenwick, Charles
Barnard, E. B.	Clough, William	Ferens, T. R.
Barnes, G. N.	Clynes, J. R.	Ferguson, R. C. Munro
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew,W)	Ffrench, Peter
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone, N.)	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace
Beale, W. P.	Corbett, CH (Sussex, E. Grinat'd	Findlay, Alexander
Bell, Richard	Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Fuller, John Michael F.
Bellairs, Carlyon	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Fullerton, Hugh
Benn, Sir J. Williams (Devonp't	Crean, Eugene	Gibb, James (Harrow)
Benn, W. (T'w'rHamlets, S. Geo	Cremer, William Randal	Gill, A. H.
Berridge, T. H. D.	Crooks, William	Ginnell, L.
Bertram, Julius	Crosfield, A. H.	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert Jn.
Bethell, Sir J.H. Essex, Romfd)	Dalziel, James Henry	Glover, Thomas
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Grant, Corrie
Billson, Alfred	Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Greenwood, Hamar (York)
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Gulland, John W.
Black, Arthur W.	Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton
Bottomley, Horatio	Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.
Boulton, A. C. F.	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Halpin, J.
Bowerman, C. W.	Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras,N.	Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil
Bramsdon, T. A.	Dillon, John	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)
Brigg, John	Dobson, Thomas W.	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Duckworth, James	Harvey, W.E. (Derbyshire, N. E
Harwood, George	Marnham, F. J.	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Hayden, John Patrick	Massie, J.	Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne
Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Masterman, C. F. G.	Shackleton, David James
Healy, Timothy Michael	Meehan, Patrick A.	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Hemmerde, Edward George	Micklem, Nathaniel	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Henderson, Arthur (Durham	Money, L. G. Chiozza	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Henry, Charles S.	Montagu, E. S.	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe	Mooney, J. J.	Smyth, Thomas F.(Leitrim, S.)
Higham, John Sharp	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Snowden, P.
Hobart, Sir Robert	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Hogan, Michael	Morrell, Philip	Soares, Ernest J.
Hooper, A. G.	Morse, L. L.	Spicer, Sir Albert
Hope, John Deans (Fife, West	Murphy, John	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph(Chesh.)
Hope, W. Bateman (Somers't, N	Murray, James	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Hudson, Walter	Napier, T. B.	Strachey, Sir Edward
Hutton, Alfred Eddison	Nicholson, Charles N.(Doncast')	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Hyde, Clarendon	Nolan, Joseph	Summerbell, T.
Idris, T. H. W.	Norman, Sir Henry	Sutherland, J. E.
Jackson, R. S.	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Jardine, Sir J.	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Jenkins, J.	Nuttall, Harry	Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe)
Johnson, John (Gateshead)	O'Brien, Kendal(TipperaryMid	Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury
Jones, Sir D. Brynmor(Swansea	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Thomas, Sir A.(Glamorgan, E.)
Jones, Leif (Appleby)	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Jones, William (Carnarvonshire	O'Dowd, John	Thomasson, Franklin
Jowett, F. W.	O'Malley, William	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Kearley, Hudson E.	O'Shee, James John	Toulmin, George
Kekewich, Sir George	Parker, James (Halifax)	Verney, F. W.
Kelley, George D.	Paul, Herbert	Vivian, Henry
Kennedy, Vincent Paul	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Wadsworth, J.
Kilbride, Denis	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Walters, John Tudor
Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Pirie, Duncan V.	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Lamont, Norman	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)	Wardle, George J.
Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E.	Pullar, Sir Robert	Waring, Walter
Leese, SirJosephF. (Accrington	Raphael, Herbert H.	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich	Redmond, John E.(Waterford)	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)	Redmond, William (Clare)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Lewis, John Herbert	Rees, J. D.	Weir, James Galloway
Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Rendall, Athelstan	Whitbread, Howard
Lough, Thomas	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n	White, George (Norfolk)
Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Richardson, A.	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Rickett, J. Compton	Whitehead, Rowland
Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs	Ridsdale, E. A.	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Mackarness, Frederic C.	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Wilkie, Alexander
Maclean, Donald	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Williams, J. (Glamorgan)
Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarthn)
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Robertson, SirG. Scott (Bradf'rd	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Williamson, A.
MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)	Robinson, S.	Wilson, HenryJ.(York, W.R.)
M'Callum, John M.	Roche, Augustine (Cork)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
M'Crae, George	Roche, John (Galway, East)	Winfrey, R.
M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Roe, Sir Thomas	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)	Rose, Charles Day
M'Micking, Major G.	Rowlands, J.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Mallet, Charles E.	Runciman, Walter	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F	Bridgeman, W. Clive	Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Craik, Sir Henry
Ashley, W. W.	Carlile, E. Hildred	Dalrymple, Viscount
Balcarres, Lord	Castlereagh, Viscount	Duncan, Robert(Lanark, Govan
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(City Lond.	Cave, George	Fell, Arthur
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Haddock, George R.
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Hamilton, Marquess of
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)	Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Hay, Hon. Claude George
Bowles, G. Stewart	Courthope, G. Loyd	Helmsley, Viscount

Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edmd's	Muntz, Sir Philip A.	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Houston, Robert Paterson	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Hunt, Rowland	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens	Wilson, A. Stanley(York, E. R.)
Lane-Fox, G. R.	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Liddell, Henry	Randles, Sir John Scurrah	Younger, George
Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin,S.)	Roberts,S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Mason, James F. (Windsor)	Starkey, John R.	Viscount Valentia and Mr. Forster.
Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Middlemore, John Throgmorton	Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)
Morpeth, Viscount	Turnour, Viscount

Question put accordingly, "That the clause be read a second time."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 64; Noes, 288. (Division List No. 82.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex F.	Craik, Sir Henry	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Dalrymple, Viscount	Nield, Herbert
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Gov'n	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Ashley, W. W.	Fell, Arthur	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.	Forster, Henry William	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Balcarres, Lord	Haddock, George R.	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(City Lond.	Hamilton, Marquess of	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Starkey, John R.
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)	Helmsley, Viscount	Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hervey, F. W. F.(Bury S. Edm'ds	Thornton, Percy M.
Bowles, G. Stewart.	Houston, Robort Paterson	Turnour, Viscount
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Hunt, Rowland	Valentia, Viscount
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Lane-Fox, G. R.	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Carlile, E. Hildred	Liddell, Henry	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Castlereagh, Viscount	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin,S.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)
Cave, George	Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Wortley, Rt. Hn. C.B. Stuart-
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W.	Magnus, Sir Philip	Younger, George
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm'gham)	Meysey-Thompton, E. C.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Captain Craig and Major Coates.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Middlemore, John Throgmort'n
Courthope, G. Loyd	Morpeth, Viscount
Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.	Muntz, Sir Philip A.
NOES.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Bethell, Sir J.H.(Essex, R'mf'rd	Coats, Sir T.Glen(Renfrew, W.)
Agnew, George William	Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Billson, Alfred	Cooper, G. J.
Armitage, R.	Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Black, Arthur W.	Cotton, Sir H. J. S.
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Bottomley, Horatio	Cox, Harold
Astbury-John Meir	Boulton, A. C. F.	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)
Atherley-Jones, L.	Bowerman, C. W.	Crean, Eugene
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Bramsdon, T. A.	Cremer, William Randal
Baker, Joseph A.(Finsbury,E.)	Brigg, John	Crooks, William
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Brocklehurst, W. B.	Crosfield, A. H.
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Brooke, Stopford	Dalziel, James Henry
Barker, John	Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan
Barnard, E. B.	Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Daies, Timothy (Fulham)
Barnes, G. N.	Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Davies W. Howell (Bristol, S.)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Byles, William Pollard	Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.)
Beale, W. P.	Cawley, Sir Frederick	Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras, N
Bell, Richard	Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Dillon, John
Bellairs, Carlyon	Cheetham, John Frederick	Dobson, Thomas W.
Benn, Sir J. Williams(Devonp't	Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Duckworth, James
Benn,W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo.	Clancy, John Joseph	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)
Berridge, T. H. D.	Clough, William	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)
Bertram, Julius	Clynes, J. R.	Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Lewis, John Herbert	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Robinson, S.
Elibank, Master of	Lough, Thomas	Roche, Augustine (Cork)
Essex, R. W.	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Roche, John (Galway, East)
Esslemont, George Birnie	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Roe, Sir Thomas
Everett, R. Lacey	Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk, B'ghs	Rose, Charles Day
Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Mackarness, Frederic C.	Rowlands, J.
Fenwich, Charles	Maclean, Donald	Runciman, Walter
Ferens, T. R.	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Ferguson, R. C. Munro	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland)
Ffreneh, Peter	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down. S.	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)	Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne
Findlay, Alexander	M'Callum, John M.	Shackleton, David James
Fuller, John Michael F.	M'Crae, George	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Fullerton, Hugh	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick B.)
Gibb, James (Harrow)	M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Gill, A. H.	M'Micking, Major G.	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Ginnell, L.	Mallet, Charles E.	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Glover, Thomas	Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston)	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Grant, Corrie	Marnham, F. J.	Snowden, P.
Greenwood, Hamar (York)	Massie, J.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Gulland, John W.	Masterman, C. F. G.	Soares, Ernest J.
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	Meehan, Patrick A.	Spicer, Sir Albert
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Micklem, Nathaniel	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)
Halpin, J.	Money, L. G. Chiozza	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)	Montagu, E. S.	Strachey, Sir Edward
Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Mooney, J. J.	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r.	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Stuart, James (Sunderland)
Hart-Davies, T.	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)	Summerbell, T.
Harvey, W. E. (Derbyshire, N.	Morrell, Philip	Sutherland, J. E.
Harwood, George	Morse, L. L.	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Hayden, John Patrick	Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Murphy, John	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Healy, Timothy Michael	Murray, James	Tennant, Sir Edward (Salisbury
Hemmerde, Edward George	Napier, T. B.	Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr)
Henry, Charles S.	Nolan, Joseph	Thomasson, Franklin
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Norman, Sir Henry	Thorne, William
Higham, John Sharp	Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Hobart, Sir Robert	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Toulmin, George
Hogan, Michael	Nuttall, Harry	Verney, F. W.
Hooper, A. G.	O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid	Vivian, Henry
Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Wadsworth, J.
Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Hudson, Walter	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)	Walsh, Stephen
Hutton, Alfred Eddison	O'Dowd, John	Walters, John Tudor
Hyde, Clarendon	O'Malley, William	Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)
Idris, T. H. W.	O'Shee, James John	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Jackson, R. S.	Parker, James (Halifax)	Wardle, George J.
Jardine, Sir J.	Partington, Oswald	Waring, Walter
Jenkins, J.	Paul, Herbert	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Jones, Sir D. Brynmor(Swansea	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Perks, Robert William	Weir, James Galloway
Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.)	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Whitbread, Howard
Jowett, F. W.	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	White, George (Norfolk)
Kearley, Hudson E.	Pirie, Duncan V.	White, Patrick (Heath, North)
Kekewich, Sir George	Price,C. E.(Edinburgh, Central)	Whitehead, Rowland
Kelley, George D.	Pullar, Sir Robert	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Kennedy, Vincent Paul	Raphael, Herbert H.	Wilkie, Alexander
Kilbride, Denis	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	Williams, J. (Glamorgan)
Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Redmond, William (Clare)	Williams, Llewelyn Carmarth'n
Laidlaw, Robert	Rees, J. D.	Williams, Oswold (Merioneth)
Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster	Rendall, Athelstan	Williamson, A.
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Richards, T.F.(Wolverh'mp'n)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Lamon, Norman	Richardson, A.	Winfrey, R.
Lea, Hugh Cecil(St. Pancras, E.	Rickett, J. Compton	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Leese, SirJosephF.(Accrington)	Ridsdale, E. A.	Tellers for the Noes—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Lehmann, R. C.	Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich)	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E.(Dundee)
	Robertson, Sir G.Scott(Bradf'd

MR. T. L. CORBETT

moved a new Clause providing that the accused soldier should have the right to ask for written evidence. The object of his Amendment was simply to ensure that the accused should see the evidence in writing. ["Speak up."]

*THE CHAIRMAN

If hon. Members will keep quiet it will be quite possible to hear the hon. Member.

MR. T. L. CORBETT

said there were none so deaf as those who would not hear. The clause provided that the evidence should be committed to writing, and he wanted the soldier to have the right to see it. He did not wish to weary the right hon. Gentleman the Secretary of State for War. They all recognised his courtesy and admitted he was fighting the battle in a way worthy of a War Minister, but in the interest of justice for the uneducated man he asked the right hon. gentleman to accept this Amendment.

MR. J. MACVEAGH

It is now after a quarter to three.

SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS

What does that matter?

MR. J. MACVEAGH

The hon. Member is talking against time.

MR. T. L. CORBETT

said the hon. Member accused him of doing what he had often done himself. He could say with a clear conscience that no one had spoken less against time than he had in the past. His only object was to assist the Government and to get the Bill made clear.

New Clause (Amendment of Army Act as to right of accused to have evidence in writing)—brought up and read the first time.—(Mr. T. L. Corbett.)

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the clause be read a second time."

MR. HALDANE

said that though the purpose of the Clause was laudable he feared that the object aimed at by the hon. Member would be defeated by the very means he suggested. By the existing regulations the evidence would be taken in writing in a court-martial, but in the case of subordinate proceedings before a commanding officer the provision would mean a burden to the prisoner and not a relief.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 70; Noes, 304. (Division List No. 83.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. SirAlex. F.	Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	Morpeth, Viscount
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Duncan,Robert(Lanark,Govan	Muntz, Sir Philip A.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Fell, Arthur	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield
Ashley, W. W.	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Nield, Herbert
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H	Forster, Henry William	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Balcarres, Lord	Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Haddock, George R.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Hamilton, Marquess of	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Starkey, John R.
Bowles, G. Stewart	Heaton, John Henniker	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Helmsley, Viscount	Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark
Butcher, Samuel Henry	Hervey, F. W. F.(BuryS.Edm'ds	Thornton, Percy M.
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Hills, J. W.	Turnour, Viscount
Carlile, E. Hildred	Houston, Robert Paterson	Valentia, Viscount
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hunt, Rowland	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Cave, George	Lane-Fox, G. R	Williams Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. ViotorC.W.	Liddell, Henry	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Lockwood, Rt. Hn.Lt.-Col.A.R	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham	Long, Rt. Hn Walter (Dublin,S.	Younger, George
Collings, Rt. Hn. J.(Binn'gham	Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Courthope, G. Loyd	Magnus, Sir Philip	TELLERS FOR THE AYES— Mr. T. L. Corbett and Mr. Charles Craig.
Craig, Caipt. James (Down, E.)	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Craik, Sir Henry	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Dalymple, Viscount	Middlemore,JohnThrogmorton
NOES.
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)	Jones,William (Carnarvonshire
Agnew, George William	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.)	Kearley, Hudson E.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Dickinson,W.H.(St.Pancras,N.	Kekewich, Sir George
Armitage, R.	Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Kelley, George D.
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles	Kennedy, Vincent Paul
Asquith, Rt. Hn. HerbertHenry	Dillon, John	Kilbride, Denis
Astbury, John Meir	Dobson, Thomas W.	Kincaid-Smith, Captain
Atherley-Jones, L.	Duckworth, James	Laidlaw, Rober
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	Lamont, Norman
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras,E
Barker, John	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Leese,Sir Joseph F.(Accrington
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Elibank, Master of	Lehmann, R. C.
Barnard, E. B.	Essex, R. W.	Lever, A. Levy (Essex,Harwich
Barnes, G. N.	Everett, R. Lacey	Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Lewis, John Herbert
Barry,Redmond J.(Tyrone,N.)	Fenwick, Charles	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David
Beale, W. P.	Ferens, T. R.	Lough, Thomas
Beck, A. Cecil	Ferguson, R. C. Munro	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes
Bell, Richard	Ffrench, Peter	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Bellairs, Carylon	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Macdonald, J.M. (FalkirkB'ghs
Benn, Sir J. Williams(Devonpt	Finlday, Alexander	Mackarness, Frederic C.
Benn, W.(T'w'rHamlets,S.Geo.	Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Maclean, Donald
Berridge, T. H. D.	Fuller, John Michael F.	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.
Bertram, Julius	Fullerton, Hugh	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift
Bethell, Sir J.H. Essex,Romfd	Gibb, James (Harrow)	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, E.)
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)	Gill, A. H.	MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)
Billson, Alfred	Ginnell, L.	M'Callum, John M.
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert Jn.	M'Crae, George
Black, Arthur W	Glover, Thomas	M'Hugh, Patrick A.
Boland, John	Grant, Corrie	M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)
Bottomley, Horatio	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	M'Micking, Major G.
Boulton, A. C. F.	Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward	Mallet, Charles E.
Bowerman, C. W.	Gulland, John W.	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Bramsdon, T. A.	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston
Brigg, John	Gwynn, Stephen Lucius	Marnham, F. J.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Massie, J.
Brooke, Stopford	Halpin, J.	Masterman. C. F. G.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Harcourt, Right Hon. Lewis	Meehan, Patrick A.
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Hardie, J. Keir (MerthyrTydvil	Micklem, Nathaniel
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Money, L. G. Chiozza
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas.	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	Montagu, E. S.
Byles, William Pollard	Hart-Davis, T.	Mooney, J. J.
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Harvey, W.E. (Derbyshire,N.E	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Harwood, George	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen
Chance, Frederick William	Haworth, Arthur A.	Morrell, Philip
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Hayden, John Patrick	Morse, L. L.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Morton, Alpheus Cleophas
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. E.	Healy, Timothy Michael	Murphy, John
Churchill, Winston Spencer	Hemmerde, Edward George	Murray, James
Clancy, John Joseph	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Napier, T. B.
Clough, William	Henry, Charles S.	Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r
Clynes, J. R.	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Nolan, Joseph
Coats,Sir T. Glen(Renfrew,W.)	Higham, John Sharp	Norman, Sir Henry
Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Hobart, Sir Robert	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Hogan, Michael	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Cooper, G. J.	Hooper, A. G.	Nuttall, Harry
Corbett,C.H.(Sussex,E.Grinst'd	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	O'Brien, Kendal(TipperaryMid
Cotton, Sir J. H. S.	Hope, W. Bateman (Somerset N.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Cox, Harold	Hudson, Walter	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.).
Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Hutton, Alfred Eddison	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Crean, Eugene	Hyde, Clarendon	O'Dowd, John
Cremer, William Randal	Idris, T. H. W.	O'Kelly,James(Roscommon,N.
Crooks, William	Jackson, R. S.	O'Malley, William
Crosfield, A. H.	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	O'Shee, James John
Dalziel, James Henry	Jardine, Sir J.	Palmer, Sir Charles Mark
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Jenkins, J.	Parker, James (Halifax)
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Partington, Oswald
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Jones,Sir D. Brynmor(Swansea	Paul, Herbert
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Jones, Leif (Appleby)

Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)	Toulmin, George
Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Verney, F. W.
Perks, Robert William	Scott,A.H.(Ashton under Lyne	Vivian, Henry
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Sears, J. E.	Wadsworth, J.
Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Shackleton, David James	Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Pirie, Duncan V.	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)	Walsh, Stephen
Price, C.E.(Edinburgh, Central	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Walters, John Tudor
Pullar, Sir Robert	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)
Raphael, Herbert H.	Silcock, Thomas Ball	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	Wardle, George J.
Redmond, William (Clare)	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	Waring, Walter
Rees, J. D.	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Rendall, Athelstan	Snowdon, P.	Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)
Richards, T. F. (Wolverham'n	Soames, Arthur Wellesley	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Richardson, A.	Soares, Ernest S.	Weir, James Galloway
Rickett, J. Compton	Spicer, Sir Albert	Whitbread, Howard
Ridsdale, E. A.	Stanley, Hn. A.Lyulph(Chesh.)	White, George (Norfolk)
Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Strachey, Sir Edward	Whitehead, Rowland
Roberts, John H. Denbighs.)	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee	Stuart, James (Sunderland)	Wilkie, Alexander
Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'd	Summerbell, T.	Williams, J. (Glamorgan)
Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Sutherland, J. E.	Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Robinson, S.	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Robson, Sir William Snowdon	Taylor, John W. (Durham)	Williamson, A.
Roche, Augustine (Cork)	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Roche, John (Galway, East)	Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury	Winfrey, R.
Roe, Sir Thomas	Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Rose, Charles Day	Thomas,David Alfred (Merthyr
Rowlands, J.	Thomasson, Franklin	Tellers for the Noes—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Runciman, Walter	Thorne, William
Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Torrance, Sir A. M.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

moved a new clause, with the object of deleting the word "shamefully" from the fourth section of the Act, which relates to court-martials on officers who have "shamefully" abandoned or surrendered their posts. He was, he said, not going to weary the Committee. He only desired to give Ministers an opportunity of carrying out a reform which many of them had been demanding for years. The object of the clause as it stood in the original Act was to provide for a court-martial on an officer who had abandoned or surrendered his post, and upon conviction he was liable to sentence of death or such less penalty as might be awarded. He had heard the point discussed on three occasions, and on one of them the present Attorney-General, who he was sorry not to see in his place, so convinced him by his eloquent pleading that the word "shameful" ought to be left out that he then and there made up his mind that should he over be in opposition he would do his utmost to get such a reform carried. He presumed the hon. and learned Gentleman was still of the same opinion he could not possibly have changed his mind in two years. Army officers were in a different position from naval officers in this matter. The latter charged with a like offence were afforded an opportunity of clearing themselves at a court-martial. An Army officer was not, and the result was that on many occasions the military authorities had hesitated to have a court-martial because they did not see their way to try an officer for a "shameful" act, the consequence being that the accused officer had been afforded no opportunity of clearing his character and setting himself right in the face of the world. The retention of the word "shameful" was the cause of considerable injustice to many officers during the Boer War. He appealed to the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill to consult his colleagues on this Amendment and to carry out their views.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the clause be read a second time."

MR. HALDANE

said the military authorities held that it was essential to retain the word, otherwise it would be impossible to justify the death penalty for the offence of abandoning a post. To strike out the word would be to vitiate the whole principle on which the clause was founded.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said that as the right hon. Gentleman did not care to avail himself of the opportunity offered him to carry out the views of his own colleagues, he did not feel called upon to press the matter, and would therefore withdraw his proposal.

Proposed new clause, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR (City of London)

moved to report progress, but said that he did not intend to press the Motion to a division if, as he hoped, they came to an agreement with regard to the future course of business. He was in the same relatively fortunate position as the Prime Minister, of being able to approach the question without the memory of an all-night sitting behind him, and he was, of course, dependent on hearsay for an account of the course of the controversy, and of the reasons which had brought them to their present position. He could not help regretting, as he always did regret, that the House or the Committee should be driven to these very prolonged and exhausting sittings. If he had been rightly informed, he could not help expressing his regret at the course the Government had adopted. He understood that the whole difficulty had arisen from the Government's insisting on taking the Third Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill on the previous night, instead of permitting the House, in the ordinary course, to go on with the discussion in Committee of the Bill which had kept them there for so many hours. He asked the Prime Minister the other day as to the course of business, and the reply was perfectly explicit. He would like to remind the right hon. Gentleman of the exact words he used. On March 14th the right hon. Gentleman said that on Thursday (that was that day) it was proposed to move the Speaker out of the chair on the Civil Service Estimates and to take the Third Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill. No words could be more precise or less capable of being misunderstood. He was not aware that the right hon. Gentleman had said anything to qualify that statement. But there was a reason given that morning for departing from that specific pledge. He was informed that that reason was based on an imaginary practice which required the successive stages of the Consolidated Fund Bill to be taken on successive days. There was no such rule in existence. The Prime Minister knew that it was pure imagination, and they had only to look back to quite recent records to see that there was no justification for the statement. Last year the Government themselves did not take the stages of the Bill on successive days. It might be said that the intervening day—a Friday—was a private Members' day, and that therefore the Bill was taken on successive Government days. He did not think that even that could be held to be adequate justification for the alleged rule; but if it were, let them go back to 1905. When the late Government was in office there was an acute controversy on questions connected with the Army. Then. far more than now, there was difficulty in obeying the law which required that certain financial business should be done before March 31st, because they did not finish the Third Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill until March 30th; yet under that pressure the Government allowed a day to intervene between the Committee stage and the Third Reading. Votes A and 1 of the Army Estimates were interpolated by the Government of that day between the Committee stage and the Third Reading of the Bill. The Committee would see, therefore, that the alleged reason why the explicit pledge was departed from was one which had no basis either in Parliamentary practice or in Parliamentary law. There was no foundation for the argument except in the imagination of Ministers. The Prime Minister, like himself, had had long experience of the House of Commons, and would admit that when a pledge of the Government was broken, for a reason which was clearly a bad reason, there must arise a state of feeling which led to these prolonged, exhaustive, and fruitless sittings. The Opposition had acted as any other Opposition in their place would have done. The Government, he hoped, would now feel that had there been a little more anxiety to meet the legitimate desires of the Opposition they would not then be continuing a sitting begun more than twenty-four and a half hours before. He hoped that business would now be brought to a rapid termination, and he begged to move his Resolution pro forma. He regretted all that had occurred, but, unless he had been wholly misinformed, the blame must rest on the shoulders of those who had rashly and inexpediently departed from the pledged word of the Leader of the House, and who had justified their actions by alleged Parliamentary practice and Parliamentary law which had no justification either in the Standing Orders or in the records of the House.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report progress and ask leave to sit again."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

recognised the dispassionate and reasonable spirit in which the right hon. Gentleman had spoken. He had referred to the legitimate desires of the Opposition, but the whole difficulty had arisen from the fact that the Government did yield to the legitimate desires of the Opposition. ["No."] The Government had proposed that the Second Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill should be taken on Tuesday, and it was on that footing he named Thursday as the night for the Third Reading. But in accordance with what the Government thought the legitimate desire of the Opposition they advanced the stage by a day, and gave up Monday to the Second Reading, and therefore the whole scheme of business he had proposed, so far as it affected the Consolidated Fund Bill, was altered by being brought forward by one day. He proposed that the Second Reading should be taken on Tuesday, Committee on Wednesday, and Third Reading on Thursday. The right hon. Gentleman opposite said "No, we must have the Second Reading on Monday." Very well, the Government agreed, and that was the whole matter. And he would remind the Committee that there was no great constitutional question affected by this whole matter. The Consolidated Fund Bill had not the peculiar virtues of an Appropriation Bill. That was a doctrine he had often heard expounded by an authority the right hon. Gentleman would recognise. Sir W. Harcourt had always objected to the idea that the Consolidated Fund Bill had the peculiar sanctity which was possessed by the Appropriation Bill. There was ample opportunity given at this period of the session for the discussion of general questions affecting the conduct of the Government. There were not only the various stages of the Consolidated Fund Bill, but there was also the opportunity afforded by the Motion to adjourn for the Easter holiday. There was nothing unreasonable, unusual, or unfair in what had happened at all. And even supposing the Government had been mistaken in bringing forward that stage of the Bill, was that any reason for occupying he did not know how many hours in discussing the details of the Army Bill, which might have been disposed of in an hour? [Cries of "Yes."] Was it a sufficient reason for all the disturbance that had been caused to the House? The idea was to punish the Government for a certain fancied wrong over the Consolidated Fund Bill by talking about a measure which it was admitted might have been disposed of in about an hour. ["No, no."] That was the reason put forward by the right hon. gentleman. When he spoke before he had to deal with comparatively unimportant persons.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD,

on a point of order, asked whether the Prime Minister had any right to describe Members of the House as "unimportant" Members.

SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

said his phrase was "comparatively unimportant" Members. If all Members on the other side were of equal importance that did not say much for the estimate in which they professed to hold the leader of their Party. That, too, was the excuse put forward by the Leader of the Party in cold blood, without any of the warmth which might be generated by an all-night sitting, in justification of what had happened. He had another point to urge, and to some hon. Members it might seem to be a strange point. He was not supposed to be a particular partisan of the House of Lords, but the other House had to be considered in these arrangements; and therefore it was necessary for the Government to take the Third Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill the previous night, because the House of Lords had to receive the Bill that day in order that they might dispose of it before adjourning for the Easter recess. The whole thing, therefore, was perfectly straight. On the invitation, and at the expressed desire, of the right hon. Gentleman and his friends, the Government put the business forward a day. That arrangement having been made, and arrangements elsewhere having been made on that footing, the Government proceeded to deal day after day with the several stages of the Bill. But, whatever might be said of the arrangement, there was no justification for keeping the House sitting from one o'clock in the morning until half-past three o'clock in the afternoon in order to discuss a series of Amendments which, by confession of hon. Members opposite, could have been disposed of in one hour. [Cries of "No."] In any case the Government had no intention whatever to yield a point in the matter, because they were perfectly right. He was happy to gather that the right hon. Gentleman and his friends were not going to carry on the struggle any longer [Opposition cries of "We will"], and if that was so, the Government would be relieved and pleased. Should the case be otherwise, however, the Government would insist upon proceeding with the programme they had indicated.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said that his experience of the House was a long one, but he had never listened to a more infelicitous speech and a more infelicitous intervention by a Leader of the House. He appealed to hon. Members as a whole to say whether he had not put the case of the Opposition in a moderate way; but how had he been met by the right hon. Gentleman? [An Hon. Member: By a plain straightforward statement.] The right hon. Gentleman whose Government had deliberately—had at all events broken its pledge [Ministerial cries of "No."] expressed no regret, felt no regret, and was apparently the fortunate Leader of a Party which felt no regret. He would like to appeal in this matter to a Party in that House which had had; many sharp collisions with every Government successively, but had always kept their pledges, and he ventured to say that they had listened with disgust and horror at the absolutely reckless repudiation of a Parliamentary pledge.

MR. JOHN REDMOND

If I am not mistaken, the right hon. Gentleman alludes to the Irish Party. We have during the hours since eleven o'clock last night shown our disgust and horror at the action of the Government by remaining up to support them.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said the hon. and learned Gentleman mistook his point. He never doubted that the hon. and learned Gentleman was going to support the Government; but it did not follow that he approved of their conduct. The Prime Minister did not deny that so far as form was concerned he had broken his pledge. The only question was whether he had kept it in the spirit. What was the right hon. Gentleman's justification? That when he said the Third Reading was going to be taken on Thursday he intended Committee to be taken on Wednesday and the Second Reading on Tuesday. In answer to an appeal he ventured to make, the right hon. Gentleman altered the Second Reading from Tuesday, which was only half a day, to Monday, which was a whole day, and he contended that that carried with it by implication the alteration of the Third Reading. It was not on implications of that kind that public business could be conducted. If the Third Reading Stage needed to be altered they ought to have had notice of that alteration. The right hon. Gentleman had said that it was out of pure kindness to the Opposition that he had transferred the Second Reading from Tuesday to Monday. It was, indeed, the result of an appeal made by him, but that could never have been carried out if the Opposition had not agreed to the preliminary stage which made it possible to take the Second Reading on Monday. As the Opposition did not object to that preliminary stage, the Government were able to advance their business by a day. Nothing occurred which justified the right hon. Gentleman in without notice violently altering the programme. It was impossible to conduct the business of the House smoothly and without friction unless every Party felt that they had the fullest right to rely on the spirit and the letter of any statement with regard to business made by the Leader of the House. On more than one occasion last session slight difficulties arose, and he was sorry to say that a difficulty had arisen again. The right hon. Gentleman, so far from admitting that he had unintentionally done some wrong, seemed to think all the wrong was on the side of the Opposition. He had said that whilst they admitted that the business of the Army Annual Bill could be done in an hour they had taken a great many hours over it. Who had admitted that it could be done in an hour? [Cries of "Banbury" and "Roberts."]

SIR F. BANBURY

rose to make a personal explanation. He said that at half-past eleven o'clock the night before he rose in his place, and pointed out that if the Government would take the Third Reading of the Appropriation Bill on Thursday the Opposition would endeavour to meet them in discussing the Army Annual Bill. He added that he did not suppose they would sit much after twelve or one o'clock, but the hon. Member for West Derby Division of Liverpool at once dissented from that view.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said he challenged the statement that anyone on that side of the House said the Bill could properly be discussed in an hour. [Cries of "Roberts."] He appealed to past experience and practice. He knew indeed of no case in previous years in which the House had commenced the consideration of the Army (Annual)Bill at two in the morning. He did not know why the present Opposition should be supposed to have loss to say on that Bill than their predecessors, who, though not embittered by any breach of pledges, had kept the House sitting till a fresh Parliamentary day had begun, not in one year, but in many years. He did not think the right hon. Gentleman's speech was either conciliatory in tone or reasonable in substance. However big his majority might be, he was not acting in the light way to get business through the House. He was not carrying on the

traditions of his predecessors. Mr. Glads one would never have done what the right hon. Gentleman had done. Unless they could regain some fresh confidence in the programmes of business which the right hon. Gentleman announced, he did not see how the harmony which, notwithstanding political differences, had always characterised that Assembly could be maintained.

MAJOR SEELY (Liverpool, Abercromby)

said that since he was the hon. Member who was responsible for the various stages of the Consolidated Fund Bill not being taken on consecutive days on the occasion referred to by the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition he would like to say a few words. He, for one, deprecated the statement that the Army Annual Bill could be discussed in one hour; it was a ridiculous assertion. The right hon. Gentleman would remember that it was on his request that in 1905 Votes A and 1 were interpolated between the Committee Stage and Third Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill, and the reason was that it had been thought necessary owing to the congestion of business to put those Votes into the Closure Resolution; but as there were manifold changes proposed in the Army he suggested that those Votes should be taken out and discussed at another time. The right hon. Gentleman met him with great courtesy which he was always glad to acknowledge, and took out the Votes from the Closure Resolution. It was for that reason that in that year the various stages of the Bill were not taken on consecutive days.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 79; Noes, 321. (Division List No. 84.)

AYES.
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Butcher, Samuel Henry	Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim,S.)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn.HughO.	Carlile, E. Hildred	Craik, Sir Henry
Ashley, W. W.	Castlereagh, Viscount	Dalrymple, Viscount
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.	Cave, George	Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-
Balcarres, Lord	Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W.	Duncan, Robert(Lanark,Govan
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (CityLond.)	Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Faber, George Denison (York)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)	Fell, Arthur
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Worc.	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester	Cleland, J. W.	Forster, Henry William
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Coates, E. Feetham(Lewisham)	Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Collings, Rt. Hn. J.(Pirm'gham)	Haddock, George R.
Bowles, G. Stewart	Corbett, T. L. (Down. North)	Hamilton, Marqess of
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Courthope, G. Loyd	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H.
Hay, Hon. Claude George	Mason, James F. (Windsor)	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Heaton, John Henniker	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)
Helmsley, Viscount	Middlemore, John Throgmorton	Thornton, Percy M.
Hervey,F.W.F.(BuryS. Edm'ds	Morpeth, Viscount	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)	Muntz, Sir Philip A.	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Hills, J. W.	Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.)
Houston, Robert Paterson	Nield, Herbert	Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Hunt, Rowland	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Liddell, Henry	Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)	Younger, George
Lockwood, Rt. Hn.Lt.-Col.A.R.	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin,S.	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecelesall	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Lonsdale, John Brownlee	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)	Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Sassoon, Sir Albert Edward
Magnus, Sir Philip	Starkey, John R.
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.)	Clough, William	Greenwood, Hamar (York)
Adkins, W. Ryland D.	Clynes, J. R.	Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward
Agnew, George William	Coats, SirT.Glen(Renfrew)	Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Gulland, John W.
Armitage, R.	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Collins, SirWm. J(S.Pancras, W	Gwynn, Stephen Lucius
Asquith, Rt. Hn.Herbert Henry	Cooper, G. J.	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.
Astbury, John Meir	Corbett,C.H.(Sussex,EGrinst'd	Halpin, J.
Atherley-Jones, L.	Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Harcourt, Hon. Right Lewis
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Cox, Harold	Hardie, J.Keir(MerthyrTydvil)
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Crean, Eugene	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Cremer, William Randal	Hart-Davies, T.
Barker, John	Crombie, John William	Harvey, W.E.(Derbyshire,N.E.
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Crooks, William	Harwood, George
Barnes, G. N.	Crosfield, A. H.	Haworth, Arthur A.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Dalziel, James Henry	Hayden, John Patrick
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone,N.	Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Hazel, Dr. A. E.
Beale, W. P.	Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan	Healy, Timothy Michael
Beauchamp, E.	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Hemmerde, Edward George
Beck, A. Cecil	Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)
Bell, Richard	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Henry, Charles S.
Bellairs, Carlyon	Dickinson, W.H.(St.Pancras,N	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)
Benn, Sir J. Williams(Devonp't	Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Higham, John Sharp
Benn, W.(T'w'rHamlets,S.Geo.	Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles	Hobart, Sir Robert
Berridge, T. H. D.	Dillon, John	Hogan, Michael
Bertram, Julius	Duckworth, James	Hooper, A. G.
Bethell,SirJ.H.(Essex, Romf'rd	Duncan,C.(Barrow-in-Furness)	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)
Billson, Alfred	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	Hudson, Walter
Black, Arthur W.	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Hutton, Alfred Eddison
Boland, John	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Hyde, Clarendon
Bottomley, Horatio	Elibank, Master of	Idris, T. H. W.
Boulton, A. C. F.	Esmonde, Sir Thomas	Jackson, R. S.
Bowerman, C. W.	Essex, R. W.	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred
Bramsdon, T. A.	Esslemont, George Birnie	Jardine, Sir J.
Brigg, John	Everett, R. Lacey	Jenkins, J.
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Johnson, John (Gateshead)
Brooke, Stopford	Fenwick, Charles	Jones, SirD. Brynmor (Swansea
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Ferens, T. R.	Jones, Leif (Appleby)
Burke, E. Haviland-	Ferguson, R. C. Munro	Jones, Willliam (Carnarvonshire
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Ffrench, Peter	Jowett, F. W.
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Kearley, Hudson E.
Buxton, Rt. Hn.SydneyCharles	Findlay, Alexander	Kekewich, Sir George
Byles, William Pollard	Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Kelley, George D.
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Fuller, John Michael F.	Kennedy, Vincent Paul
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Fullerton, Hugh	Kilbride, Denis
Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Kincaid-Smith, Captain
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Gill, A. H.	Laidlaw, Robert
Chance, Frederick William	Ginnell, L.	Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Cheetham, John Frederick	Glover, Thomas	Lambert, George
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Gooch, George Peabody	Lamont, Norman
Churchill, Winston Spencer	Grant, Corrie	Lea,Hugh Cecil(St.Pancras, E.)
Clancy, John Joseph
Leese,SirJoseph F.(Accrington)	O'Malley, William	Snowdon, P.
Lehmann, R. C.	O'Mara, James	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Lever, A.Levy(Essex,Harwich)	O'Shee, James John	Soares, Ernest J.
Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral)	Palmer, Sir Charles Mark	Spicer, Sir Albert
Lewis, John Herbert	Parker, James (Halifax)	Stanley,Hn.A.Lyulph (Chesh.)
Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Paul, Herbert	Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Lough, Thomas	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Strachey, Sir Edward
Lundon, W.	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Lupton, Arnold	Perks, Robert William	Stuart, James (Sunderland)
Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Philipps,Col. Ivor(S'thampton)	Summerbell, T.
Macdonald,J. R. (Leicester)	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Sutherland, J. E.
Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Mackarness, Frederic C.	Pirie, Duncan V.	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Maclean, Donald	Price, C.E.(Edinburgh,Central)	Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe)
Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Price, Robert John(Norfolk, E.)	Tennant,Sir Edward(Salisbury
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Priestley, W. E. B.(Bradford,E.	Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan,E.)
MacVeagh, Jeremiah(Down, S.	Pullar, Sir Robert	Thomas,David Alfred (Merthyr
MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal,E.	Raphael, Herbert H.	Thomasson, Franklin
M'Callum, John M.	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	Thorne, William
M'Crae, George	Redmond, William (Clare)	Tomkinson, James
M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Rees, J. D.	Torrance, Sir A. M.
M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)	Rendall, Athelstan	Toulmin, George
M'Micking, Major G.	Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mptn	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Mallet, Charles E.	Richardson, A.	Verney, F. W.
Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Rickett, J. Compton	Vivian, Henry
Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)	Ridsdale, E. A.	Wadsworth, J.
Marks, G.Croydon(Launceston	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Walsh, Stephen
Marnham, F. J.	Roberts, John H. (Denbighs)	Walters, John Tudor
Massie, J.	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E.(Dundee)	Walton,Sir John L.(Leeds,S.)
Masterman, C. F. G.	Robertson,SirG.Scott(Bradf'rd	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Meehan, Patrick A.	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Wardle, George J.
Money, L. G. Chiozza	Robinson, S.	Waring, Walter
Montagu, E. S.	Robson, Sir William Snowdon	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Mooney, J. J.	Roche, Augustine (Cork)	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Roche, John (Galway, East)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Morgan, J.Lloyd (Carmarthen)	Roe, Sir Thomas	Weir, James Galloway
Morrell, Philip	Rogers, F. E. Newman	Whitbread, Howard
Morse, L. L.	Rose, Charles Day	White, George (Norfolk)
Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Rowlands, J.	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Murphy, John	Runciman, Walter	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Murray, James	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	Whitehead, Rowland
Napier, T. B.	Samuel,HerbertL.(Cleveland)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Nicholson,CharlesN.(Doncast'r	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Wilkie, Alexander
Nolan, Joseph	Scott,A.H.(Ashton under Lyne	Williains,Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Sears, J. E.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth
Nussey, Thomas Willans	Seely, Major J. B.	Williamson, A
Nuttall, Harry	Shackleton, David James	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
O'Brien, Kendal(TipperaryMid	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick,B.)	Winfrey, R.
O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)	Silcock, Thomas Ball	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
O'Dowd, John	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
O'Kelly,James(Roscommon,N.	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim,S.)

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

moved a clause the object of which was to alter the terms of Clause 42 of the Act in order to give an officer the same right of redress as was possessed by the private soldier. In former years this had been a favourite Amendment of right hon. and hon. Gentlemen opposite. The very desirable alteration which he proposed was that an officer who suffered, or considered he suffered, through the wrong of his superior officer should have the right to have the matter inquired into by the Commander-in-Chief and redress granted to him.

New Clause (Amendment of Section 42 as to redress of wrongs complained of by officer)—(Mr. W. Rutherford)—brought up and read the first time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the clause be read a second time."

MR. HALDANE

thought the Amendment, if carried, would deprive the officer who considered he had a right of redress for some act of his superior officer of his best chance of getting justice, because the complaint would go to the Commander-in-Chief, who would be the sole judge whether or not redress should be given. Under the present system the Commander-in-Chief was required to make a statutory report, which came before the Secretary of State. That was a desirable procedure in that it secured the attention of some one absolutely independent to the matter.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said he had given the right hon. Gentleman the opportunity of doing a piece of

justice and he had declined to accept it. He had no option, therefore, in view of the numerical majority behind the right hon. gentleman, but to ask leave to withdraw the clause.

Leave to withdraw the clause refused.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 68; Noes, 306. (Division List No. 85.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. SirAlex. F.	Craig,Captain James (Down, E.	Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Craik, Sir Henry	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Dalrymple, Viscount	Magnus, Sir Philip
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. Hugh O.	Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Ashley, W. W.	Duncan, Robt. (Lanark, Govan	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon.Sir H.	Faber, George Denison (York)	Middlemore, Jn. Throgmorton
Balcarres, Lord	Fell, Arthur	Morpeth, Viscount
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Nield, Herbert
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)	Fletcher, J. S.	Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Forster, Henry William	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hamilton, Marquess of	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Bowles, G. Stewart	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Heaton, John Henniker	Starkey, John R.
Butcher, Samuel Henry	Helmsley, Viscount	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Hervey,F.W.F.(BuryS.Edm'ds	Thomson,W. Mitchell-(Lanark)
Carlile, E. Hildred	Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)	Thornton, Percy M.
Cave, George	Hills, J. W.	Valentia, Viscount
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.	Houston, Robert Paterson	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Hunt, Rowland	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.A (Worc.	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Coates,E.Feetham (Lewisham)	Liddell, Henry
Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birmingh'm)	Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col.A.R.	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Courthope, G. Loyd	Long,Col.Charles W.(Evesham)	Mr. T. L. Corbett and Mr. Claude Hay.
Craig,Charles Curtis (Antrim,S.	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin,S.
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.)	Bottomley, Horatio	Cory, Clifford John
Agnew, George William	Boulton, A. C. F.	Cotton, Sir H. J. S.
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Bowerman, C. W.	Craig, Herbert J (Tynemouth)
Armitage, R.	Bramsdon, T. A.	Crean, Eugene
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Brigg, John	Cremer, William Randal
Asquith, Rt. Hn.Herbert Henry	Brocklehurst, W. B.	Crombie, John William
Astbury, John Meir	Brooke, Stopford	Crooks, William
Atherley-Jones, L.	Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Crosfield, A. H.
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Burke, E. Haviland-	Dalziel, James Henry
Baker,Joseph A. (Finsbury,E.)	Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Buxton, Rt. Hn.SydneyCharles	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)
Barker, John	Byles, William Pollard	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Dickinson,W.H. (St. Pancras,N
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.
Barry, Redmond J.(Tyrone,N.)	Cawley, Sir Frederick	Dilke, Rt, Hon. Sir Charles
Beale, W. P.	Chance, Frederick William	Dillon, John
Beauchamp, E.	Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Duckworth, James
Beck, A. Cecil	Cheetham, John Frederick	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness
Bell, Richard	Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)
Bellairs, Carlyon	Churchill, Winston Spencer	Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)
Benn,Sir J.Williams (Devonp't	Clancy, John Joseph	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)
Benn,W.(T'w'r Hamlets,S.Geo.	Cleland, J. W.	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)
Bennett, E. N.	Clough, William	Elibank, Master of
Berridge, T. H. D.	Clynes, J. R.	Esmonde, Sir Thomas
Bertram, Julius	Coats,SirT.Glen (Renfrew, W.)	Essex, R. W.
Bethell,SirJ.H.(Essex, Romf'rd	Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Esslemont, George Birnie
Billson, Alfred	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Everett, R. Lacey
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Collins,Sir WmJ.(S.Pancras,W.	Fenwick, Charles
Black, Arthur W.	Cooper, G. J.	Ferens, T. R.
Boland, John	Corbett,C.H.(Sussex,E.Grinstd	Ferguson, R. C. Munro
Ffrench, Peter	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Robinson, S.
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Robson, Sir William Snowdon
Findlay, Alexander	Macdonald,J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs.	Roche, Augustine (Cork)
Fuller, John Michael F.	Maclean, Donald	Roche, John (Galway, East)
Fullerton, Hugh	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Roe, Sir Thomas
Gill, A. H.	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Rogers, F. E. Newman
Ginnell, L.	MacVeagh,Jeremiah (Down, S.	Rose, Charles Day
Gladstone, Rt. Hn.Herbert John	MacVeigh,Charles (Donegal, E.	Rowlands, J.
Glover, Thomas	M'Callum, John M.	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Gooch, George Peabody	M'Crae, George	Samuel,Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Grant, Corrie	M'Hugh, Patrick, A.	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Greenwood, Hamar (York)	M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)	Scott, A. H.(Ashton-under-Lyne
Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill	M'Micking, Major G.	Sears, J. E.
Gulland, John W.	Mallet, Charles E.	Seely, Major J. B.
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Shackleton, David James
Gywnn, Stephen Lucius	Mansfield,H.Rendall (Lincoln)	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Marks,G.Croydon (Launceston	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)
Halpin, J.	Marnham, F. J.	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Hardie,J.Keir (Merthyr Tydvil	Massie, J.	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Masterman, C. F. G.	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	Meehan, Patrick A.	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim,S.)
Hart-Davies, T.	Money, L. G. Chiozza	Snowden, P.
Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)	Montagu, E. S.	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Harvey,W.E. (Derbyshire, N.E.	Mooney, J. J.	Soares, Ernest J.
Harwood, George	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Spicer, Sir Albert
Haworth, Arthur A.	Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)	Stanley,Hon.A.Lyulph (Chesh.
Hayden, John Patrick	Morse, L. L.	Steadman, W. C.
Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Straehey, Sir Edward
Healy, Timothy Michael	Murphy, John	Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Hemmerde, Edward George	Napier, T. B.	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Nicholson,Charles N.(Doncast'r	Stuart, James (Sunderland)
Henry, Charles S.	Nolan, Joseph	Summerbell, T.
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)	Norton, Capt, Cecil William	Sutherland, J. E.
Higham, John Sharp	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Hobart, Sir Robert	Nuttall, Harry	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Hodge, John	O'Brien,Kendal (Tipperary Mid	Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe)
Hogan, Michael	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan,E.)
Hooper, A. G.	O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W)	Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)	Thomasson, Franklin
Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)	Thorne, William
Hudson, Walter	O'Dowd, John	Tomkinson, James
Hutton, Alfred Eddison	O'Kelly,James(Roscommon,N.	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Hyde, Clarendon	O'Malley, William	Toulmin, George
Idris, T. H. W.	O'Mara, James	Trevelvan, Charles Philips
Jackson, R. S.	Palmer, Sir Charles Mark	Verney, F. W.
Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Parker, James (Halifax)	Wadsworth, J.
Jenkins, J.	Paul, Herbert	Walsh, Stephen
Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)	Walton, Sir John L.(Leeds, S.)
Jones,Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Jones, Lief (Appleby)	Perks, Robert William	Wardle, George J.
Jones, William(Carnarvonshire	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Waring, Walter
Jowett, F. W.	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Wason, Eugene(Clackmannan)
Kearley, Hudson E.	Pirie, Duncan V.	Wason,John Cathcart (Orkney)
Kekewich, Sir George	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh,Central)	Weir, James Galloway
Kelley, George D.	Price,Robert John (Norfolk,E.	Whitbread, Howard
Kennedy, Vincent Paul	Priestley,W.E.B.(Bradford, E.)	White, George (Norfolk)
Kilbride, Denis	Pullar, Sir Robert	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Laidlaw, Robert	Radford, G. H.	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster	Raphael, Herbert H.	Whitehead, Rowland
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Lambert, George	Redmond, William (Clare)	Wilkie, Alexander
Lamont, Norman	Rees, J. D.	Williams,Llewelyn (Carmarth'n
Lea,Hugh Cecil (St.Pancras, E.	Rendall, Athelstan	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Leese,Sir JosephF.(Accrington	Richards, T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n	Williamson, A.
Lehmann, R. C.	Richardson, A.	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Lever,A.Levy (Essex,Harwich	Rickett, J. Compton	Winfrey, R.
Lever, W. H. (Cheshire,Wirral)	Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Lewis, John Herbert	Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Lough, Thomas	Robertson,Sir G.Scott (Bradf'd
Lundon, W.	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

moved a new clause to provide that no recruit under 18 years of age should be enlisted, and that each recruit should produce his birth certificate or other satisfactory evidence of his age. He desired to give the right hon. Gentleman an opportunity of carrying out the expressed wishes of many of his supporters. Moreover, as the Government had declared their intention of reducing the Army, one of the best ways of effecting such a reduction was to stop the enlistment of undesirable and immature recruits.

New Clause (Addition to Part II. of Army Act as to age of enlistment)—(Mr. William Rutherford)—brought up and read the first time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the clause be read a second time."

MR. HALDANE

said there might be circumstances under which it would be possible to look for recruits at an even later age than 18. If they could be get at 19, or even older, it would be of great advantage to the Army, and would be in accordance with the practice of the best

foreign armies. But the War Office must cut their coat according to their cloth and must frame their regulations according to the necessities of the case. Accordingly, to stereotype the age at 18 would not only be embarrassing in present circumstances, but would not represent the best age at which recruiting could take place. It was much better and more convenient from every point of view to fix the age from time to time according to circumstances.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

explained that the object of the clause was not to fix the age for recruiting, but to lay down an age below which recruiting should not take place.

MR. HALDANE

said that an emergency could be conceived in which it might be desirable to take recruits at another age and train them. The effect of the proposal would be to take away the power of making regulations to suit varying circumstances, and that would be a retrograde step.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 69; Noes, 292. (Division List No. 86.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F.	Craik, Sir Henry	Liddell, Henry
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Dalrymple, Viscount	Long, Col. Charles W.(Evesham)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles	Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Ashley, W. W.	Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	Magnus, Sir Philip
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon.Sir H.	Duncan, Robert(Lanark,Govan	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Balcarres, Lord	Faber, George Denison (York)	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Fell, Arthur	Middlemore,JohnThrogmorton
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Morpeth, Viscount
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Fletcher, J. S.	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Forster, Henry William	Parker,Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)
Bowles, G. Stewart	Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)	Randles, Sir John Scurrah
Butcher, Samuel Henry	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Roberts, S. (Sheffield,Ecclesall)
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Harwood, George	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Carlile, E. Hildred	Heaton, John Henniker	Seely, Major J. B.
Cave, George	Helmsley, Viscount	Starkey, John R.
Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C.W.	Hervey,F.W.F.(BuryS.Edm'ds	Thomson,W Mitchell-(Lanark)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)	Thorne, William
Coates, E. Feetham(Lewisham)	Hills, J. W.	Thornton, Percy M.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Collings, Rt. Hn. J.(Birmingh'm	Hornby,Sir William Henry	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Houston, Robert Paterson
Courthope, G. Loyd	Hunt, Rowland	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim,S.	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.	Mr. Watson Rutherford and Mr. Claude Hay.
Craig,Captain James(Down,E.)	Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich)
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.)	Astbury, John Meir	Barker, John
Agnew, George William	Atherley-Jones, L.	Barlow, Percy (Bedford)
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Barry, E. (Cork. S.)
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Baker,Joseph A.(Finsbury,E.)	Barry,Redmond J.(Tyrone,N.)
Armitage, R.	Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Beale, W. P.
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Baring,Godfrey(Isle of Wight)	Beauchamp, E.
Beck, A. Cecil	Findlay, Alexander	M'Kean, John
Bell, Richard	Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	M'Laren, Sir C. B. (Lesicester)
Bellairs, Carlyon	Fuller, John Michael F.	M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)
Bcnn,Sir J.Williams (Devonp'rt	Fullerton, Hugh	M'Micking, Major G.
Benn,W.(T'w'r Hamlets,S.Geo.	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Mallet, Charles E.
Bennett, E. N.	Ginnell, L.	Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Berridge, T. H. D.	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Mansfield, H. Rendall(Lincoln)
Bertram, Julius	Glover, Thomas	Marks,G.Croydon(Launceston)
Bethell,SirJ.H.(Essex,Romf'rd	Gooch, George Peabody	Marnham, F. J.
Billson, Alfred	Grant, Corrie	Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	Massie, J.
Black, Arthur W.	Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill	Masterman, C. F. G.
Boland, John	Gulland, John W.	Meehan, Patrick A.
Boulton, A. C. F.	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	Menzies, Walter
Bowerman, C. W.	Gwynn, Stephen Lucius	Money, L. G. Chiozza
Bramsdon, T. A.	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Mooney, J. J.
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Halpin, J.	Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)
Brigg, John	Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis	Morgan,J. Lloyd(Carmarthen)
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Hardie,J Keir(MerthyrTydvil)	Morrell, Phillip
Brooke, Stopford	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)	Morse, L. L.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)	Morton, Alpheus Cleophas
Burke, E. Haviland-	Hart-Davies, T.	Murphy, John
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Harvey,W.E.(Derbyshire, N.E.	Napier, T. B.
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Hayden, John Patrick	Nicholson,Charles N.(Doncast'r
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Hazel, Dr. A. E.	Nolan, Joseph
Byles, William Pollard	Healy, Timothy Michael	Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Nussey, Thomas Willans
Chance, Frederick William	Henry, Charles S.	O'Brien,Kendal(Tipperary Mid
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Herbert,Colonel Ivor(Mon.,S.)	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Cheetham, John Frederick	Herbert, T. Arnold(Wycombe)	O'Connor,James(Wicklow, W.)
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Hobart, Sir Robert	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Clancy, John Joseph	Hodge, John	O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Clarke, C. Goddard	Hogan, Michael	O'Dowd, John
Cleland, J. W.	Hooper, A G.	O' Kelly,James(Roscommon,N.)
Clough, William	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey	O'Malley, William
Clynes, J. R.	Hudson, Walter	O'Mara, James
Coats,Sir T.Glen(Renfrew,W.)	Hudson, Alfred Eddison	O'Shee, James John
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Hyde, Clarendon	Palmer, Sir Charles Mark
Collins,SirWm.J.(S.Pancras,W.	Idris, T. H. W.	Parker, James (Halifax)
Cooper, G. J.	Jackson, R. S.	Paul, Herbert
Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, Grinst'd	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred	Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Cory, Clifford John	Jenkins, J.	Pearce, William (Limehouse)
Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)
Craig, Herbert J.(Tynemouth)	Jones,Sir D.Brynmor(Swansea	Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Crean, Eugene	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Pirie, Duncan V.
Cremer, William Randal	Jones, William(Carnarvonshire	Power, Patrick Joseph
Crombie, John William	Jowett, F. W.	Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central
Crooks, William	Kearley, Hudson E.	Price, Robert John(Norfolk,E.)
Crosfield, A. H.	Kekewich, Sir George	Priestley, W.E.B.(Bradford,E.)
Dalziel, James Henry	Kennedy, Vincent Paul	Pullar, Sir Robert
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Kincaid-Smith, Captain	Radford, G. H.
Davies,M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Laidlaw, Robert	Raphael, Herbert H.
Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Limb, Edmund G. (Leominster	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Dewar, Arthur(Edinburgh,S.)	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	Redmond, William (Clare)
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.)	Limbert, George	Rees, J. D.
Dickinson, W. H.(St.Pancras,N.	Lamont, Norman	Rendall, Athelstan
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Lea, Hugh Cecil (St.Pancras,E.	Richards,T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Dillon, John	Lehmann, R. C.	Richardson, A.
Duckworth, James	Lever,A Levy(Essex,Harwich	Rickett, J. Compton
Duncan,C.(Barrow-in-Furness	Lewis, John Herbert	Ridsdale, E. A.
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David	Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	Lockwood, Rt. Hn.Lt.-Col.A.R.	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Lough, Thomas	Robertson,Sir G.Scott(Bradf'rd
Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Lundon, W.	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)
Elibank, Master of	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Robinson, S.
Esmonde, Sir Thomas	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)	Robson, Sir William Snowdon
Essex, R. W.	Maclean, Donald	Roche, Augustine (Cork)
Everett, R. Lacey	Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Rogers, F. E. Newman
Fenwick, Charles	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Rose, Charles Day
Ferens, T. R.	MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down,S.	Rowlands, J.
Ferguson, R. C. Munro	M'Callum, John M.	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)
Ffrench, Peter	M'Crae, George	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

Scarisbrick, T. T. L.	Stuart, James (Sunderland)	Wason, Eugene(Clackmannan)
Sears, J. E.	Summerbell, T.	Wason,John Cathcart(Orkney)
Seaverns, J. H.	Sutherland, J. E.	Weir, James Galloway
Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)	Whitbread, Howard
Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Taylor, John W. (Durham)	White, George (Norfolk)
Shipman, Dr. John G.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Silcock, Thomas Ball	Thomas,Sir A. (Glamorgan,E.)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	Thomas,David Alfred(Merthyr	Whitehead, Rowland
Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie	Tomkinson, James	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim,S.)	Torrance, Sir A. M.	Wilkie, Alexander
Snowden, P.	Toulmin, George	Williams,Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Soames, Arthur Wellesley	Trevelyan, Charles Philips	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Soares, Ernest J.	Verney, F. W.	Williamson, A.
Spicer, Sir Albert	Vivian, Henry	Wilson, Henry J. (York,W. R.)
Stanley,Hn.A Lyulph(Chesh.)	Wadsworth, J.	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Steadman, W. C.	Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Strachey, Sir Edward	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Straus, B. S. (Mile End)	Wardle, George J.	Tellers for the Noes—
Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)	Waring, Walter	Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.

VISCOUNT HELMSLEY

moved a new clause dealing with Section 81 of the Army Act, his purpose being to allow a recruit who repented of his bargain within three months of enlistment to obtain his discharge on payment of £5 instead of £10. He submitted that£10 was an excessive amount to charge a recruit under the circumstances, seeing that only a very small amount could have been spent on his training. A payment of £5 would be quite sufficient for the purposes of the Government, and more within the means of those who would have to make it.

New Clause (Power to recruit to purchase discharge)—(Viscount Helmsley)—brought up and read the first time.

Motion made and Question proposed, "That the clause be read a second time."

MR. HALDANE

said the figure of £10 was fixed some time ago after careful consideration; the system had worked well in practice, and as it was impossible to say what the effect of the change proposed would be in the way of dislocating recruiting, he deprecated the Amendment. It was not desirable to encourage men lightly to withdraw from the obligation into which they had entered.

MR. CLAUDE HAY

said that no reason whatever had been given to show that £5 would not be sufficient to meet the necessities of the case. If a young man found that he had no vocation to

serve His Majesty in the Army it ought not to be made too difficult for him to withdraw. If men were unwilling they would never make good soldiers, but would give rise to more trouble than was involved in their withdrawal within three months of enlistment.

SIR GILBERT PARKER

asked how many recruits in the course of a year purchased their discharge within three months of enlistment. Most men who enlisted had not £10, and it would be practically as difficult for them to raise the smaller sum of £5; therefore the question of encouraging withdrawals from obligations incurred hardly arose.

MR. HALDANE

said the Committee were under the disadvantage of having to consider clauses which were not on the Paper; hence he had had no opportunity of obtaining such information as that asked for by the hon. Member for Gravesend.

MR. CLAUDE HAY

pointed out that the Government had only themselves to thank for having to deal with Amendments without notice. It was not until 4 o'clock on the previous afternoon that Members had the opportunity of ascertaining the right hon. Gentleman's own views on the Bill.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 74; Noes, 309. (Division List No. 87).

AYES.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Balcarres, Lord	Beckett, Hon. Gervase
Ashley, W. W.	Banner, John S. Harmood-	Bignold, Sir Arthur
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.	Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)	Bowerman, C. W.
Bowles, G. Stewart	Fletcher, J. S.	Mason, James F. (Windsor)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Forster, Henry William	Meysey-Thompson, E. C.
Butcher, Samuel Henry	Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)	Middlemore,John Throgmorton
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Hamilton, Marquess of	Morpeth, Viscount
Carlile, E. Hildred	Hardie, J.Keir(Merthyr Tydvil)	O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.	Rawlinson,John Frederick Peel
Castlereagh, Viscount	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Richards, T.F.(Wolverh'mpt'n
Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W.	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)	Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Hervey,F.W.F. (Bury S. Ed'd's	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Clynes, J. R.	Hill,Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Coates,E. Feetham (Lewisham)	Hills, J. W.	Sheffield,Sir BerkeleyGeorgeD.
Collings, Rt. Hn.J. (Birm'ng'm	Hornby, Sir William Henry	Starkey, John R.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Houston, Robert Paterson	Stone, Sir Benjamin
Courthope, G, Loyd	Hudson, Walter	Thomson, W.Mitchell-(Lanark)
Craig,Charles Curtis(Antrim,S.	Hunt, Rowland	Thorne, William
Craig,Captain James(Down,E.)	Jowett, F. W.	Thornton, Percy M.
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich)	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Duncan,Robert (Lanark,Gov'n	Liddell, Henry
Faber, George Denison (York)	Long,Col.Charles W.(Evesham	Tellers for the Ayes—
Fardell, Sir T. George	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Viscount Helmsley and Mr. Lonsdale.
Fell, Arthur	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Magnus, Sir Philip
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.)	Byles, William Pollard	Esmonde, Sir Thomas
Acland-Hood,RtHn.Sir Alex.F	Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Essex, R. W.
Agnew, George William	Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Everett, R. Lacey
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Cawley, Sir Frederick	Fenwick, Charles
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Chance, Frederick William	Ferens, T. R.
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Ferguson, R. C. Munro
Armitage, R.	Cheetham, John Frederick	Ffrench, Peter
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry	Churchill, Winston Spencer	Findlay, Alexander
Astbury, John Meir	Clancy, John Joseph	Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry
Atherley-Jones, L.	Clarke, C. Goddard	Fuller, John Michael F.
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Cleland, J. W.	Fullerton, Hugh
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury,E.)	Clough, William	Gibb, James (Harrow)
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Coats, Sir T. Glen(Renfrew,W.)	Gill, A. H.
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Ginnell, L.
Baring,Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E.	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John
Barker, John	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Gooch, George Peabody
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Collins,SirWm.J.(S.Pancras,W.	Grant, Corrie
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Cooper, G. J.	Greenwood, Hamar(York)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Corbett,C.H.(SussexE.Grinst'd	Gulland, John W.
Barry,Redmond J.(Tyrone, N.)	Cory, Clifford John	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton
Beale, W. P.	Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Gwynn, Stephen Lucius
Beauchamp, E.	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.
Beck, A. Cecil	Crean, Eugene	Halpin, J.
Bell, Richard	Cremer, William Randal	Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis
Bellairs, Carlyon	Crombie, John William	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)
Benn,Sir J.Williams(Devonp'rt	Crooks, William	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)
Benn,W.(T'w'r Hamlets,S.Geo.	Crosfield, A. H.	Hart-Davies, T.
Bennett, E. N.	Dalrymple, Viscount	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)
Berridge, T. H. L.	Dalziel, James Henry	Harvey, WE(Derbyshire. N. E
Bertram, Julius	Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Harwood, George
Bethell,Sir J.H.(Essex,Romf'd	Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Haworth, Arthur A.
Billson, Alfred	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Hayden, John Patrick
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Davies, W, Howell (Bristol, S.)	Hazel, Dr. A. E.
Boland, John	Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)	Healy, Timothy Michael
Boulton, A. C. F.	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Henry, Charles S.
Bramsdon, T. A.	Dickinson, W.H.(St.Pancras,N.	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)
Brigg, John	Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P.	Higham, John Sharp
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Dilke, Rt. Hn. Sir Charles	Hobart, Sir Robert
Brodie, H. C.	Dillon, John	Hodge, John
Bryce, J. Annan	Duckworth, James	Hogan, Michael
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Hooper, A. G.
Burke, H. Haviland-	Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Hutton, Alfred Eddison
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles	Elibank, Master of	Hyde, Clarendon
Idris, T. H. W.	Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Shackleton, David James
Jackson, R. S.	Murphy, John	Shaw, Chas. Edw. (Stafford)
Jacoby, Sr James Alfred	Murray, James	Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick B.)
Jenkins, J.	Napier,T. B.	Sherwell, Arthur James
Johnson, John (Gateshead)	Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncaster	Shipman, Dr. John G.
Jones, Sir D. B. (Swansea)	Nolan,Joseph	Silcock, Thomas Ball
Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Norton, Captain Cecil William	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John
Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.)	Nussey, Thomas Willans	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
Kearley, Hudson E.	Nuttall, Harry	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
Kekewich, Sir George	O'Brien,Kendal(TipperaryMid.	Snowden, P.
Kelley, George D.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Kennedy, Vincent Paul	O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.)	Soares, Ernest J.
Kilbride, Denis	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)	Spicer, Sir Albert
Kincaid-Smith, Captain	O'Dowd, John	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph(Chesh.
Laidlaw, Robert	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)	Steadman, W. C.
Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster	O'Malley, William	Strachey, Sir Edward
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)	O'Mara, James	Straus, B.S. (Mile End)
Lambert, George	O'Shee, James John	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Lamont, Norman	Palmer, Sir Charles Mark	Stuart, James (Sunderland)
Lea, HughCecil(St.Pancras, E.)	Parker, James (Halifax)	Summerbell, T.
Leese, Sir Joseph F(Accrington	Paul, Herbert	Sutherland, J. E.
Lehmann, R. C.	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Lever, A.Levy(Essex,Harwich)	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Lewis, John Herbert	Philipps,Owen C.(Pembroke)	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Lockwood, Rt. HnLt-Col. A. R.	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.
Long, Rt. Hn.Walter(Dublin,S	Pirie, Duncan V.	Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
Lough, Thomas	Power, Patrick Joseph	Tomkinson, James
Lundon, W.	Price, C. E.(Edinburgh, Central	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Luttrell, Hugh Fownes	Price, Robert J. (Norfolk, E.)	Toulmin, George
Maclean, Donald	Priestley, W. E. B. (Bradford, E.	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Radford, G. H.	Verney, F. W.
Macpherson, J. T.	Raphael, Herbert H.	Vivian, Henry
MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	Wadsworth, J.
MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)	Redmond, William (Clare)	Walton, Sir J. L. (Leeds, S.)
M'Callum, John M.	Rees, J. D.	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
M'Crae, George	Rendall, Athelstan	Wardle, George J.
M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Richardson, A.	Waring, Walter
M'Kean, John	Rickett, J. Compton	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan
M'Laren, Sir C. B. (Leicester)	Ridsdale, E. A.	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)	Roberts, John H. (Denbighs)	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
M'Micking, Major G.	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E.(Dundee	Weir, James Galloway
Mallet, Charles E.	Robertson, SirG.Scott(Bradf'rd	Whitbread, Howard
Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	White, George (Norfolk)
Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)	Robinson, S.	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Marks, G.Croydon(Launceston)	Robson,Sir William Snowdon	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Marnham, F. J.	Roche, Augustine (Cork)	Whitehead, Rowland
Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)	Roche, John (Galway, East)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Masterman, C. F. G.	Rogers, F. E. Newman	Whittaker, Sir Thomas Palmer
Meehan, Patrick A.	Rowlands, J.	Wilkie, Alexander
Menzies, Walter	Runciman, Walter	Williams,Llewelyn(Carmarth'n
Micklem, Nathaniel	Rutherford, V.H. (Brentford)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Money, L. G. Chiozza	Samuel, Herb. L. (Cleveland)	Williamson, A.
Montagu, E. S.	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Wilton, Henry J. (York, W.R)
Mooney, J. J.	Scarisbrick, T. T. L.	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Scott,A.H.(Ashton under Lyne	Wood,T. M'Kinnon
Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen	Sears, J. E.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Morrell, Philip	Seaverns, J. H.	Mr.Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
Morse, L. L.	Seely, Major J. B.

Schedule 1:—

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said he wished to raise a point of order of considerable constitutional importance. By the First Schedule of the Army Act of last year the total amount payable per day to a soldier was 5s. 8d. That could be Verified by any hon. Member who cared to obtain the "Act of last year and add up the schedule. If, however, they added up the schedule proposed to her incorporated in the present Bill they would find that the amount came to 6s. 3d. per head. He did not raise any objection to the extra 7d. as far as it went, but he wished to point out that it would amount on the whole to a very considerable expenditure. It had been laid down by Sir Arsine May that whenever a measure was submitted to the House the object of which was to increase the drain upon the public funds, it was necessary before the Bill could be read a second time that Resolutions should be submitted, such Resolutions to be recommended by His Majesty's Government—by the Crown—and submitted to, and approved of by Committee of the House. The same practice went a step further and dealt distinctly with cases where Bills were brought forward which had not got for their object a drain upon the public funds, but which proposed in a small way to create an increased charge. He contended that the Bill, having as it had the material object of increasing the cost per head by 7d., made a distinct additional charge upon the public funds. The consideration of the schedule was the proper place to consider the point he had raised. They could not, he contended, proceed with this particular part of the Committee's work; it must be postponed and a Resolution brought forward and considered by the Whole House, in accordance with Parliamentary practice, before they could proceed to deal with the schedule.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said that the hon. Member should have raised his point upon consideration of Clause 3 of the Bill, but he would decide the matter apart from that and upon its own grounds. In his opinion the schedule did not make any definite charge, but only allowed payments to be made out of moneys provided in the Estimates if accommodation were provided. Again, the schedule had been increased in like manner on previous Bills, and, therefore, a precedent had already been established for the increase proposed under the schedule of the present Bill. There had never been any financial Resolution preparatory to the Bill.

MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORD

said that when Clause 3 was before the House he was called on to move his Amendment embodying the point he had just raised, but he was closured before he had said six words.

Amendment proposed— In page 7, line 8, at beginning to insert the word 'hot.' "—(Mr. Haldane.)

Amendment agreed to.

Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 2:—

Amendment proposed— In page 7, line 24, after the word 'breakfast' to insert the word 'hot.' "—(Mr. Haldane.)

Amendment agreed to.

Schedule, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 3:—

MR. CLAUDE HAY

moved to omit from line 23, the words "or in a public prison.' "He said he had brought forward this Amendment in order that the Secretary of State for War might give some information as to what the arrangements were to prevent soldiers being committed to local prisons if, after they had served their sentence, they were going to rejoin the Army. It would be within the memory of the right hon. Gentleman and those hon. Members who were in the last Parliament that this subject was then much debated, and that considerable feeling was aroused in the matter. It was found that owing to an insufficiency of accommodation in the military prisons throughout the country, military prisoners had to be sent into civil prisons. He held very strongly that if a soldier was committed for a substantial period to a civil prison such punishment rendered him unfit to rejoin the Army.

Amendment proposed— In page 9, line 33, to leave out the words 'or in a public prison.' "—(Mr. Claude Hay.)

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Schedule."

MR. HALDANE

replied that if a soldier were sentenced for an offence which caused him to be sent to a civil prison and the case was a serious one, he was discharged from the Army. That was done not by any Act of Parliament but by virtue of an executive authority which military authorities possessed. Therefore, the power being an executive one the provisions of the Act were put in general terms.

MR. CLAUDE HAY

thought it was much to be regretted that the right hon. Gentleman had not informed the Committee what the principle was in regard to soldiers who had been put into civil prisons and returned to the Army after the expiration of their sentences; for what offences soldiers were sent by the military authorities to civil prisons. If the right hon. Gentleman could promise that the matter would be seriously

tackled and provision made to remove such a stain from the Army he would withdraw his Amendment.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 325; Noes, 74. (Division List No. 88.)

AYES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.)	Cleland, J. W.	Halpin, J.
Agnew, George William	Clough, William	Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Clynes, J. R.	Hardie, J. Keir(MerthyrTydvil
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)	Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew,W)	Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)
Ambrose, Robert	Cobbold, Felix Thornley	Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)
Armitage, R.	Collins, Stephen (Lambeth)	Hart-Davies, T.
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton	Collins,SirWm.J.(S.Pancras,W.	Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)
Ashton, Thomas Gair	Cooper, G. J.	Hervey,W.E. (Derbyshire, N.E.
Asquith, Rt. Hn. HerbertHenry	Corbett,C.H.(Sussex,E.Grinst'd	Harwood, George
Astbury, John Meir	Cory, Clifford John	Haworth, Arthur A.
Atherley-Jones, L.	Cotton, Sir H. J. S.	Hayden, John Patrick
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)	Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)	Hazel, Dr. A. E.
Balfour, Robert (Lanark)	Crean, Eugene	Healy, Timothy Michael
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)	Cremer, William Randal	Hemmerde, Edward George
Barker, John	Crombie, John William	Henderson, Arthur (Durham)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford)	Crooks, William	Henry, Charles S.
Barnard, E. B.	Crosfield, A. H.	Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Dalziel, James Henry	Higham, John Sharp
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)	Hobart, Sir Robert
Barry, Redmond J. (Tyrone,N.)	Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan	Hodge, John
Beale, W. P.	Davies, Timothy (Fulham)	Hogan, Michael
Beauchamp, E.	Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)	Hooper, A. G.
Beck, A. Cecil	Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)	Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)
Bell, Richard	Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.	Howard, Hon. Geoffrey
Bellairs, Carlyon	Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras,	Hudson, Walter
Benn,SirJ.Williams (Devonp'rt	Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles	Hutton, Alfred Eddison
Benn, W. (T'wr'Hamlets,S.Geo.	Dillon, John	Hyde, Clarendon
Bennett, E. N.	Duckworth, James	Idris, T. H. W.
Berridge, T. H. D.	Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness	Jackson, R. S.
Bertram, Julius	Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)	Jacoby, Sir James Alfred
Bethell, Sir J.H.(Essex,Romf'd	Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)	Jenkins, J.
Billson, Alfred	Edwards, Enoch (Hanley	Johnson, John (Gateshead)
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine	Edwards, Frank (Radnor)	Jones, Sir D.Brynmor (Swansea
Boland, John	Elibank, Master of	Jones, Leif (Appleby)
Boulton, A. C. F.	Esmonde, Sir Thomas	Jones, William (Carnarvonshire
Bowerman, C. W.	Essex, R. W.	Jowett, F. W.
Bramsdon, T. A.	Everett, R. Lacey	Kearley, Hudson, E.
Brigg, John	Faber, G. H. (Boston)	Kekewich, Sir George
Brocklehurst, W. B.	Fenwick, Charles	Kelley, George D.
Brodie, H. C.	Ferens, T. R.	Kennedy, Vincent Paul
Bryce, J. Annan	Ferguson, R. C. Munro	Kilbride, Denis
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn	Ffrench, Peter	Laidlaw, Robert
Burke, E. Haviland-	Fiennes, Hon. Eustace	Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster
Burns, Rt. Hon. John	Findlay, Alexander	Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas	Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry	Lambert, George
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas.	Fuller, John Michael F.	Lamont, Norman
Byles, William Pollard	Fullerton, Hugh	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.	Gibb, James (Harrow)	Lea, Hugh Cecil(St.Pancras,E.
Carr-Gomm, H. W.	Gill, A. H.	Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington
Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight	Ginnell, L.	Lehmann, R. C.
Cawley, Sir Frederick	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John	Lever, A. Levy (Essex,Harwich
Chance, Frederick William	Gooch, George Peabody	Lewis, John Herbert
Channing, Sir Francis Allston	Grant, Corrie	Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David
Cheetham, John Frederick	Greenwood, Hamar (York)	Lough, Thomas
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.	Gulland, John W.	Lundon, W.
Churchill, Winston Spencer	Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton	Luttrell, Hugh Fownes.
Clancy, John Joseph	Gwynn, Stephen Lucius	Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Clarke, C. Goddard	Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.	Mackarness, Frederic C.
Maclean, Donald	Paul, Herbert	Soares, Ernest J.
Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.	Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)	Spicer, Sir Albert
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Pearce, William (Limehouse)	Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.
Macpherson, J. T.	Perks, Robert William	Steadman, W. C.
MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down,S.	Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)	Strachey, Sir Edward
MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)	Pickersgill, Edward Hare	Strauss, B. S. (Mile End)
M'Callum, John M.	Pirie, Duncan V.	Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
M'Crae, George	Power, Patrick Joseph	Stuart, James (Sunderland)
M'Hugh, Patrick A.	Price, C.E.(Edinburgh, Central)	Summerbell, T.
M'Kean, John	Price,RobertJohn (Norfolk,E.)	Sutherland, J. E.
M'Laren, Sir C. B. (Leicester)	Priestley, W.E.B. (Bradford,E.	Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth
M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)	Radford, G. H.	Taylor, John W. (Durham)
M'Micking, Major G.	Raphael, Herbert H.	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Mallet, Charles E.	Rea, Russell (Gloucester)	Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan,E.)
Manfield, Harry (Northants)	Redmond, John E. (Waterford)	Thomas,David Alfred (Merthyr
Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)	Rees, J. D.	Thorne, William
Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston	Rendall, Athelstan	Tillett, Louis John
Marnham, F. J.	Richards, T.F. (Wolverh'mpt'n	Tomkinson, James
Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)	Richardson, A.	Torrance, Sir A. M.
Massie, J.	Rickett, J. Compton	Toulmin, George
Masterman, C. F. G.	Ridsdale, E. A.	Verney, F. W.
Meehan, Patrick A.	Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)	Vivian, Henry
Menzies, Walter	Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)	Wadsworth, J.
Micklem, Nathaniel	Robertson,Sir G.Scott(Bradf'rd	Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)
Molteno, Percy Alport	Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)	Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Money, L. G. Chiozza	Robinson, S.	Wardle, George J.
Montagu, E. S.	Robson, Sir William Snowdon	Waring, Walter
Mooney, J. J.	Roche, John (Galway, East)	Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)	Roe, Sir Thomas	Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)	Rogers, F. E. Newman	Waterlow, D. S.
Morrell, Philip	Roe, Charles Day	Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Morse, L. L.	Rowlands, J.	Weir, James Galloway
Morton, Alpheus Cleophas	Runciman, Walter	Whitbread, Howard
Murphy, John	Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)	White, George (Norfolk)
Murray, James	Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Napier, T. B.	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r	Scarisbrick, T. T. L.	Whitehead, Rowland
Nolan, Joseph	Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)	Whitley, John Henry (Halifax)
Norton, Capt. Cecil William	Sears, J. E.	Whittaker, Sir Thomas Palmer
Nussey, Thomas Willans	Seaverns, J. H.	Wilkie, Alexander
Nuttall, Harry	Seely, Major J. B.	Williams Llewelyn (Carmarth'n
O'Brien, Kendal(TipperaryMid	Shackleton, David James	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)	Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.	Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)	Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)
O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)	Sherwell, Arthur James	Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
O'Dowd, John	Shipman, Dr. John G.	Wood, T. M'Kinnon
O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)	Silcock, Thomas Ball
O'Kelly, James (Roscommon,N	Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John	Tellers for the Ayes—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.
O'Mara, James	Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie
O'Shaughnessy, P. J.	Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)
O'Shee, James John	Snowden, P.
Parker, James (Halifax)	Soames, Arthur Wellesley
NOES.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F	Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C.W.	Forster, Henry William
Anstruther-Gray, Major	Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Wor.	Hamilton, Marquess of
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn.HughO.	Coates,E.Feetham (Lewisham)	Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.
Ashley, W. W.	Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Helmsley, Viscount
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H.	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Hervey,F.W.F.(Bury S.E'm'ds
Balcarres, Lord	Courthope, G. Loyd	Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Craig,Charles Curtis (Antrim,S.	Hills, J. W.
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Craig,Captain James (Down,E.	Houston, Robert Paterson
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester	Craik, Sir Henry	Hunt, Rowland
Beckett, Hon. Gervase	Dalrymple, Viscount	King,Sir Henry Seymour (Hull
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-	Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.
Bowles, G. Stewart	Duncan,Robert (Lanark,Gov'n	Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich)
Bridgeman, W. Clive	Faber, George Denison (York)	Liddell, Henry
Butcher, Samuel Henry	Fardell, Sir T. George	Lockwood, Rt. Hn.Lt.-Col.A.R.
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M.	Fell, Arthur	Long,Col.Charles W. (Evesham
Carlile, E. Hildred	Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.	Fletcher, J. S.	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred
Magnus, Sir Philip	Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert	Valentia, Viscount
Marks, H. H. (Kent)	Sheffield, Sir Berkeley George D.	Walrond, Hon. Lionel
Meysey-Thompson, E. C.	Smith, F. E. (Liverpool, Walton	Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.)
Morpeth, Viscount	Starkey, John R.	Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens	Stone, Sir Benjamin
Powell, Sir Francis Sharp	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)	Tellers for the Noes—
Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel	Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)	Mr. Claude Hay and Mr. Watson Rutherford.
Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)	Thornton, Percy M.

Question put, and agreed to.

Schedule agreed to.

Bill reported, as amended, to be considered upon Monday next.