Commons Sitting of 30 October 1906

Preamble
The House met at a quarter before Three of the Clock.
PETITIONS.
  EDUCATION (ENGLAND AND WALES) BILL.
  Petitions against. From Kingston-upon-Hull; and, Worcester Park; to lie upon the Table.
  JUVENILE SMOKING BILL.
  Petition from East Bristol, in favour; to lie upon the Table.
  POISONS AND PHARMACY BILL [LORDS].
  Petition from Blyth, for alteration; to lie upon the Table.
  SMALL LANDOWNERS (SCOTLAND) BILL.
  Petition from Renfrewshire, against; to lie upon the Table.
RETURNS, REPORTS, ETC.
  AUDIT OF COUNTY ACCOUNTS (IRELAND) (FEES).
  Return [presented 29th October] to be printed. [No. 340.]
  CRIMINAL LUNATICS ASYLUMS ACT, 1860.
  Copy presented, of Rules made by the Secretary of State for the Home Department in pursuance of Section 5 of the The Criminal Lunatic Asylums Act, 1860, for Parkhurst Criminal Lunatic Asylum [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
  FOREIGN JURISDICTION ACT.
  Copies presented, of four Orders in Council, elated 22nd October, 1906, entitled (1) The East Africa Order in Council, 1906; (2) the Ashanti Order in Council, 1906; (3) The Northern Territories Order in Council, 1906; (4) The Gold Coast Boundaries Order in Council [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
  MERCHANT SHIPPING ACT, 1894.
  Copies presented, of two Orders in Council, dated 22nd October, 1906, viz., (1) amending the Orders in Council of 9th May, 1891, and 23rd November, 1893, in regard to the grant of Colonial Certificates of Competency; (2) relating to Seamen's Lodging Houses in the City and County of Kingston-upon-Hull [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.
  NAVAL SAVINGS BANK ACT, 1866.
  Copy presented, of Order in Council, dated 22nd October, 1906, approving new Regulations for the administration of Naval Savings Banks [by Act]; to lie upon the Table.

  FUGITIVE OFFENDERS ACT, 1881.
  Copy presented, of Order in Council, dated 22nd October, 1906, directing an Act passed by the Legislature of Natal
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  (No. 13 of 1906) shall be recognised and given effect to throughout His Majesty's Dominions and on the high seas as if it were part of The Fugitive Offenders Act, 1881 [by Act]; to lie-upon the Table.

  TREATY SERIES (No. 15, 1906).
  Copy presented, of Convention between the United Kingdom and the United States of America respecting the Boundary between the Dominion of Canada and Alaska. Signed at Washington, 21st April, 1906. Ratification exchanged at Washington, 16th August, 1906 [by Command]; to lie upon the Table.
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS CIRCULATED WITH THE VOTES.

  The Mitchelstown Disturbances.
  MR. LONSDALE: To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether the organisers of a Nationalist demonstration at Mitchelstown, on 9th September, applied to the authorities at Dublin Castle for the return of a flag taken by the police from the rioters at Mitchelstown in September, 1887; whether a reply was sent to the effect that the flag was being returned, but the authorities regretted that it could not be delivered back in time to be used in the demonstration; and, if so, who was the official responsible for returning the flag and sending the message accompanying it.
  (Answered by Mr. Bryce.) The suggestions of fact made in the Question are not correct. What happened was this. I was asked by an hon. Member of this House whether a flag taken from a procession at Mitchelstown in 1888 could be returned to those who proposed to have a procession commemorating persons who lost their lives on that occasion. I replied that I did not know whether any such flag was in existence or not, but that if it was, and the persons who claimed it could show that they were the persons entitled to have it back, I was willing it should be restored to them. I was afterwards informed that a flag had been found, but do not know whether it was the flag in question nor what happened afterwards. The procession

  859
  was held so soon after the date of the request and of my letter that I do not think the flag can have been given back before the procession took place, and I recollect that in a newspaper notice I saw of the procession some little time later there was no mention of the flag.

  Corry No. 2 National Schools—Relation of Teachers and Managers.
  MR. MURPHY: To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Commissioners of National Education in Ireland are aware that the Rev. James Dewar, the manager of Corry No. 2 National Schools, Donegal Pass, Belfast, and Mrs. Wright, the principal teacher of the school, are brother and sister, respectively, of Mr. E. P. Dewar, the senior inspector of the circuit in which the school is situated; and whether this arrangement is in accordance with the rules of the Commissioners.
  (Answered by Mr. Bryce.) The Commissioners of National Education inform me that they were not aware that the facts are as stated in the Question, but they have now ascertained that such is the case. It is contrary to the Commissioners' rules for the teacher of a national school to be a near relative of the manager.

  Railway from Sligo to Arigna—Government Grant.
  MR. JAMES O'KELLY: To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the leader of the late Government, when Chief Secretary for Ireland, promised a Government grant in aid of the construction of a railway from Arigna to Sligo; whether this promise was repeated by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Dover and the right hon. Member for South Dublin during their respective terms of office as Chief Secretary; and whether the right hon. Gentleman, the present holder of the office, can now see his way to redeem this promise, in view of the fact that, owing to the failure of the potato crop in the district, employment for the people is badly wanted.
  (Answered by Mr. Bryce.) I am aware that my predecessors have from time to time had under consideration different
  860
  projects for connecting Arigna with existing lines of railway, but I find no record that any promise of a Government grant has been made. I myself recently received a deputation in favour of a railway from Arigna to the Sligo, Leitrim, and Northern Counties Railway at Dromahaire, and also a deputation asking, amongst other things, for a railway from Arigna to Collooney, which is in railway connection with Sligo. I can only repeat now what I said then, namely, that in the event of further funds for railway extension becoming available, the claims of Arigna will receive consideration in conjunction with claims from other districts. I am obtaining the views of the Board of Works upon the two rival schemes for providing railway communication with Arigna.

  Primary Education in Ireland.
  MR. MURPHY: To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to the several public meetings recently held in Ireland in connection with primary education representing all shades of opinion in the country, and making various representations as to the reforms necessary to improve educational conditions in the country; and what steps he proposes to take to meet the wishes of the people of Ireland in connection with this matter.
  (Answered by Mr. Bryce.) The Government have received a number of resolutions passed at public and other meetings on the subject of education in Ireland. The various expressions of opinion contained in these resolutions will receive full consideration. I have already expressed to the House my view that the condition of primary education in Ireland is far from satisfactory. Much needs to be done, but the subject is so large and the difficulties so numerous that I cannot at present make any statement as to the measures proper to be taken.

  EvictedTenants at Ballycomane, County Cork.
  MR. GILHOOLY: To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether the Congested Districts Board or Estates Commissioners will purchase the tenant's interests in the farm of Ballycomane

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  county Cork, to provide for the evicted tenants in the locality.
  (Answered by Mr. Bryce.) The Estates Commissioners inform me that if they should be furnished with full particulars of the farm referred to they will make inquiries into the matter with the object of considering whether they can purchase the farm.

  Irish Poor Law Reform—Report of the Vice-Regal Commission.
  MR. LONSDALE: To ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he has yet received the Report of the Vice-Regal Commission appointed to inquire into the subject of Poor Law Reform in Ireland; and whether he can state when the recommendations of the Commission will be published.
  (Answered by Mr. Bryce.) The Report has been received and presented to Parliament, and I am informed that it will be distributed in the course of a day or so.

  Bala Assessor of Income-Tax.
  MR. SEARS: To ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer if he is aware that Mr. Humphry Evans, printer, High Street, Bala, is an assessor for purposes of income-tax, and that that gentleman delegates his duties as assessor to J. T. Jones, 6, Ffryndon Road, Bala, who issues the requisite forms stamped with his own address; is he aware that this practice is general; and will he state how the necessary secrecy is maintained in such cases.
  (Answered by Mr. Asquith.) Mr. H. Evans is an assessor of income-tax for Bala. Mr. J. T. Jones is clerk to the Commissioners of Income-Tax for the district, and assists Mr. Evans with the clerical work of assessing. He is sworn to secrecy. So far as I am aware, the arrangement is unusual, but is not open to any apparent objection.

  Assessment of Taxes—Delegation of Duties.
  MR. SEARS: To ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether district commissioners of taxes are in the habit of delegating any of their duties connected with assessment, valuation of property,
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  the examination of statements of accounts of profit made in trade, and the certification of exemptions and of abatements in connection with income-tax; if not, will he state by what legal authority the surveyors of taxes interfere in such work for the performance of which district commissioners and additional commissioners were created and for which their clerks and the parochial assessors are paid.
  (Answered by Mr. Asquith.) The Board of Inland Revenue know of no such habit on the part of district commissioners of taxes. Surveyors of taxes, so far as I am aware, confine themselves to the performance of their statutory duties. The statutory authority under which they act will be found (a) as regards examination and correction of assessments in Sections 75, 115, 116, 120, 126, and 161 of the Act of 1842, and Sections 51, 52, and 63 of The Taxes Management Act, 1880; (b) as regards exemptions and abatements in Section 164 of the Act of 1842.

  The Militia and Foreign Service.
  Sir FREDERICK BANBURY: To ask the Secretary of State for War when he proposes to introduce the Bill to make the Militia liable for service aboard on embodiment on account of imminent national danger or great emergency.
  (Answered by Mr. Secretary Haldane.) I hope to be able to introduce this Bill early next session.

  Trial of Turks for Murder at Busra.
  MR. REES: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what was the result of the trial of the sixteen Ottoman subjects who were arrested for implication in the murder of the European agent of Messrs. Lynch, at Busra, in the early part of the present year.
  (Answered by Sir Edward Grey.) Two were condemned to fifteen years imprisonment with hard labour, and two to fifteen years imprisonment. Two were placed under two years police supervision, and six were condemned by default to death. Five were condemned by default to fifteen years imprisonment.

  Reparation for Attack on Dr. Home and Mr. Eadie near Amoy.
  MR. REES: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the assailants of Dr. Home and Mr. Eadie, near Amoy, on 18th June, have been brought to justice, or whether any reparation has been made by the Chinese Government for the conduct of Chinese subjects on that occasion.
  (Answered by Sir Edward Grey.) His Majesty's Consul at Amoy has reported that the Chinese authorities, who showed entire goodwill in the matter, have taken steps to apprehend the assailants of Dr. Home and Mr. Eadie. But no news of their capture has as yet reached His Majesty's Government. Inquiry is being made on this point. The Taotai of Amoy has offered to pay Dr. Home's and Mr. Eadie's medical expenses, and His Majesty's Minister at Peking has been authorised to suggest to the Chinese Government that some compensation should be paid in addition as an act of grace.

  Shanghai-Nanking Railway—Issue of Bonds.
  MR. REES: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the Government of China has authorised the second issue of bonds or provided funds for the construction of the Shanghai-Nanking Railway according to the agreement concluded in 1903: and whether the concession for the Su-chau, Hang-chau, Ning-po Railway once granted, and subsequently cancelled, has or has not been finally confirmed so as to provide a junction with the railway the Government of Hong Kong is constructing to the Kau-lung frontier.
  (Answered by Sir Edward Grey.) The Chinese Government have not yet authorised the issue of bonds, nor have they themselves provided funds for the completion of the Shanghai-Nanking Railway. We have, however, received repeated assurances from them that funds will be provided in one or other of these ways in time to prevent suspension of work on the railway, and His Majesty's Government are following the matter with attention. The negotiations for the final agreement for the Suchau-Hangchau-Ningpo Railway have been deferred until the conclusion of the
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  negotiations in regard to the final agreement for the Canton-Kowloon Railway, which are now proceeding.

  Anglo-Japanese Agreement—Great Britain and the United States.
  MR. BELLAIRS: To ask the Secretary of State for Foriegn Affairs whether there is any provision in the Anglo-Japanese treaty safeguarding His Majesty's dominions from being involved in a war with the United States of America on behalf of Japan.
  (Answered by Sir Edward Grey.) I must refer my hon. friend to the text of the agreement, which is published. It is of a general character, and there is no indication that is likely to lead to war with any Power.

  Straits Settlements Currency.
  SIR DAVID BRYNMOR JONES: To ask the Undersecretary of State for the Colonies whether a new Currency Ordinance has passed the Legislature of the Straits Settlements providing, among other things, that the silver dollar shall henceforth weigh 416 grains with ·800 fineness; whether the silver dollar at present current weighs 416 grains with ·900 fineness; whether, according to the law of the Straits Settlements the silver dollar is legal tender for an unlimited amount; if so, can he state the reasons for the lowering of the degree of fineness of the new coin; whether the Governor of the Straits Settlements has given his consent to the new Ordinance; and whether he will lay a copy of the Ordinance upon the Table of the House as soon as possible.
  (Answered by Mr. Churchill.) The Currency Ordinance, which, it is understood, has just been passed by the Legislature of the Straits Settlements, provides that the Commissioners of Currency may redeem notes in gold or silver at their option. The Commissioners were empowered early in this year to issue notes against gold at the fixed rate of 2s. 4d. to the dollar; the Ordinance referred to will allow them to pay in gold also. The reduction in the fineness of the Straits Settlements dollar from·900 to·800 is provided for by an Order passed by His Majesty in Council on the 22nd instant. The provision will operate from a date to

  865
  be fixed by the Governor. The standard weight of the dollar will remain at 416 grains. The silver dollar is, and will continue to be, unlimited legal tender, and the gold sovereign will also be unlimited legal tender at the fixed rate. The provision for lowering the fineness of the dollar was necessitated by the rise in the value of silver, which has carried the bullion value of the dollar to the level of the fixed gold value, and may carry it beyond. The Secretary of State was strongly advised by the Governor to retain the dollar at the fixed value of 2s. 4d., and, after careful consideration, he has, with the concurrence of the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury, taken the above measures with that object. The Governor has not yet reported whether he has assented to the Ordinance empowering the Currency Commissioners to pay notes in gold. A copy of the Ordinance will be forwarded in the ordinary course to the Library of the House as soon as copies are received in this country.

  Board of Trade Auditors and London Electric Lighting Companies.
  Dn. MACNAMARA: To ask the President of the Board of Trade if he can state what procedure he adopts with reference to the appointment of an auditor to an electric lighting company in London; if the Department have made any regulations with reference to such audit, and, if so, what; whether applications have been received from any local authorites in London, supported by the London County Council, asking to be allowed to attend before the auditor appointed in respect of any company; if so, whether such application has been refused by the Board of Trade, and, if so, for what reason; whether such auditor is paid directly by the company whose accounts he audits; whether such auditor has the power to disallow or to take exception in any effective manner to any charges in the accounts or to any other entries (e.g., an allocation as between capital and revenue); if he can state whether any effective action of this character has been taken by any auditor acting for a London company; whether any public notice of the audit is given or similar steps taken to those followed by the audition of an electricity undertaking owned by a London local authority; and
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  whether he is prepared to make regulations for such audit in order that duly appointed representatives of any local authorities may be able to attend the audit of companies' electricity accounts in their area, and be placed in a similar position to ratepayers at a municipal audit.
  (Answered by Mr. Lloyd-George.) The appointment by the Board of Trade of auditors of the accounts of electric lighting companies in London is made in pursuance of provisions inserted in the various companies' orders and is made annually. The Department have not yet made any regulations with reference to the audit. An application has been made by the Camberwell local authority to be allowed to attend before the auditor, and is now under consideration by the Department. No other application has been made by a metropolitan local authority. The auditor's fee is paid by the company to the Board of Trade, and by them to the auditor. Under the general form of andit clause the auditor has no power to disallow charges, but, in the event of his requirements not being complied with by the company, he reports the matter-to the Board of Trade, and any Report made by the auditor, or such portion thereof as the Board of Trade direct, is required to be appended to the company's annual statement of accounts, and forms part thereof for the purposes of statutory publication. Generally the requirements of the auditor are met by the company, but, in any case where they are not met, it is the practice of the Department to communicate to the London County Council and the local authority, the bodies concerned in the questions of revision of prices and purchase of the undertaking, a copy of the accounts, and of the auditor's Report, and of any correspondence relating thereto. The accounts not being those of a local authority, public notice of the audit is not given. I am considering the question of making arrangements for representatives of the Camberwell local authority to have facilities to discuss with the auditors of the accounts of companies having powers in Camberwell any questions which may arise on those accounts, and, if satisfactory arrangements cannot be made, I am prepared to consider the question of making regulations in the matter.

  British Consuls and Commercial Intelligence.
  MR. PAUL: To ask the President of the Board of Trade what information his department receives through the Foreign Office from His Majesty's Consuls about the conditions of international business; and whether he can make the facts thus obtained more generally accessible to the mercantile community.
  (Answered by Mr. Lloyd-George.) The Board of Trade receive a large amount of information from His Majesty's Consuls on commercial subjects partly through the Foreign Office and partly direct. One of the principal functions of the Advisory Committee on Commercial Intelligence, which largely consists of representatives of the mercantile community, is to devise means of making the information thus obtained more generally accessible to those whom it concerns. If my hon. friend can make any suggestions for this purpose I will take care that they are brought to the notice of the Committee.

  H. M. S. "Dreadnought" and Portsmouth Dry Dock.
  MR. BELLAIRS: To ask the Secretary to the Admiralty for how many days the largest dock at Portsmouth has been rendered unavailable for other purposes through being occupied by H.M.S. "Dreadnought."
  (Answered by Mr. Edmund Robertson.) The "Dreadnought" was in the dock named 124 days, but no inconvenience was caused.

  Rates of Keeper's Lodge at Holiday Hill, Lyndhurst.
  SIR ROBERT HOBART: To ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether His Majesty's Commissioners of Woods and Forests have refused to pay the parochial rates on the keeper's lodge at Holiday Hill, Lyndhurst, in the New Forest, whereby the local authorities are losing the value of the rate, and the occupier of the lodge, Keeper Sims, has been deprived of his Parliamentary vote after its enjoyment of twenty-seven years; and whether steps will be taken forthwith to put this matter right.
  (Answered by Mr. McKenna.) The cottage in question is occupied by a
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  Crown woodman. There appears to be a doubt as to the parish within which it is situated. The Commissioners of Woods are satisfied that it is in the parish of Minstead, but the parochial authorities have not asked for payment of rates. Whenever they do so the Commissioners will be ready to make the usual donation in lieu of rates. The Commissioners have no information to show whether or not the woodman is on the register of voters.

  Pensions of Senior Assistant Clerks (Abstractor Class).
  MR. T. DAVIES: To ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether, in reckoning service for pension in the case of senior assistant clerks (abstractor class), members of that grade who on appointment to the permanent establishment had previously served for twenty years in the capacity of writers or copyists, are subjected to a deduction of ten years, while members of the same grade who had served in a like capacity for only ten years are, on receiving a similar appointment, subjected to a deduction of only five years; and, if so, will he cause the regulations governing those men's superannuation to be amended so as to adjust this unequal treatment of members of the same class in His Majesty's Civil Service.
  (Answered by Mr. M'Kenna.) It is a fact that copyists or writers, who of recent years have been placed on the permanent establishment, are allowed to count one-half of their previous service for pension, although the regulations governing that service expressly stated that it would not confer any claim to superannuation. The reasons for this concession were explained in the Answer, which I circulated with the Votes, to a Question by the hon. Member for Woolwich, on the 26th March last.† I do not see any justification for extending it.

  Accommodation in Barlinnie Prison.
  MR. MITCHELL-THOMSON: To ask the Secretary for Scotland what is the total number of cells in Barlinnie Prison; how many of these are association cells: and what is the total number of prisoners who can be accommodated in the cells of the prison on the same day.
  †See (4) Debates cliv., 839.
  (Answered by Mr. Sinclair.) The numbers requited by the hon. Member are as follows:—

  Total number of cells in Barlinnie Prison

  1,034

  Of those, association cells

  12

  Total number of prisoners who can be accommodated

  1,058

  In addition there are six hospital cells and one large hospital ward, which together provide accommodation for twenty-one prisoners.

  Small Holdings in Highland Crofting Counties.
  MR. WEIR: To ask the Secretary for Scotland if he will state the number of agricultural holdings in each of the Highland crofting counties not exceeding £30 annual rental and not exceeding £50 annual rental, respectively.
  (Answered by Mr. Sinclair.) My hon. friend will find approximate information which he desires by reference to— 1. Poor Rates (Scotland), Persons Assessed. Return to House of Commons, dated 6th July 1891. 2. Table VI. of the Annual Returns of Acreage in the Agricultural Statistics, 1905. Holdings not exceeding £30. Argyll 1,457, Caithness 1,894, Inverness 3,081, Orkney 2,978, Ross and Cromarty 4,769 Shetland, 3,793, Sutherland 2,417. Above £30, but not exceeding £50. Argyll 272, Caithness 142, Inverness 197, Orkney 174, Ross and Cromarty 240, Shetland 38, Sutherland 37.

  Estimated Cost of Projected Education Commission.
  SIR GEORGE DOUGHTY: To ask the President of the Board of Education whether, in view of the fact that the expenses of the projected Education Commission are to come out of the £1,000,000 granted by the Government, he will say what his estimate of the annual cost of such Commission will be.
  (Answered by Mr. Birrell.) The hon. Gentleman is mistaken in thinking that the expenses of the Commissioners to be appointed under Section 10 of the Education Bill will be met out of the £1,000,000 provided under Clause 13. If the hon. Member will peruse the latter clause he will see that its terms do not
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  admit of the grant being devoted to this purpose, and moreover it was made clear by myself in this House on 20th July that the cost of the Commission should come out of public funds. I am unable at present to form any estimate of the annual cost of such Commission.

  Workmen's Compensation Act — Reduction of Qualifying Period—Increased Cost of Insurance.
  MR. COCHRANE: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether he can furnish information showing what will be the estimated additional cost of insurance in the coal, ironstone, mining, engineering, shipbuilding, and textile industries, respectively, resulting from the reduction of the qualifying period in Clause 1 of the Workmen's Compensation Bill from fourteen days to seven days, with a provision that where the disablement prevents the workman from earning full wages for a period of fourteen days the employer shall be liable to pay compensation for the whole period of such disablement, starting from the commencement.
  (Answered by Mr. Secretary Gladstone.) The estimates which have been put before me are as follows, but, as I explained to the hon. Member last Thursday,† several considerations make it difficult, if not impossible, to arrive at trustworthy conclusions:—

  Coal mining

  21–44 per cent, (not including increase in administrative expenses).

  Ironstone mining

  25 per cent.

  Engineering

  47 per cent.

  Shipbuilding

  40 per cent.

  Textile industries

  39¾ per cent.*

  * Since my answer of last Thursday the estimate for textile industries has been corrected by the inclusion of fatal accidents. The estimates then given for this industry now appear as follows:—

  Reduction of 14 days to 3.

  Reduction of 14 days to 7.

  Textile industries

  33 percent.

  28½ per cent.

  † See Col. 394, et seq.

  Reduction of Exports of Gold.
  CAPTAIN FABER: To ask Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the continual drain of gold from this country and the present price of Government securities, he will now formulate a scheme by which the excessive export of gold can be prevented.
  (Answered by Mr. Asquith.) I am unable to add anything to the Answer which I gave to a Question on this subject by the hon. and gallant Member on the 13th June last.†
  959.

  Bombay Quarantine Restrictions on Mecca Pilgrims.
  MR. REES: To ask the Secretary of State for India whether the Turkish Government has agreed to the removal by the Government of India of the quarantine restrictions imposed at Bombay upon Mahomedan pilgrims to Mecca.
  (Answered by Mr. Secretary Morley.) The quarantine regulations in question were imposed, and have been removed by the Government of India on their own initiative, and without previous reference to the Turkish Government. They have been discontinued, as they were found to be superfluous for the detection of plague, while injurious to the comfort and health of the pilgrims. The Turkish Government has been fully informed of these considerations, and of the precautionary measures which have been substituted for quarantine at Bombay.

  Pay, Pensions, etc., of East India Company Officials.
  SIR W. J. COLLINS: To ask the Secretary of State for India whether he is aware that, under cap. 6 of 21 and 22 Victoria, the officers of the East India Company's service were guaranteed pay, pension, allowances, privileges, and advantages as regards promotion as if they had continued in the service of the Company, and that such transferred officers were granted promotion accordingly from 1858 to 1891; and will he explain why since 1891 such promotion has been stopped.
  (Answered by Mr. Secretary Morley.): I am not aware of any instance in which the provisions of 21 and 22 Vic, c. 136,
  † See (4) Debates, clviii.,
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  s. 56, to which the Question of the hon. Member apparently refers, have been violated, nor have any representations been made to the Secretary of State on the subject for over ten years.

  Belfast Military Canteen—Beer and Grocery Contracts.
  MR. JAMES O'CONNOR: To ask the Secretary of State for War whether he can state the name of the person who holds the contract for the supply of beer to the military canteen in Belfast, and the name of the person who holds the contract for the supply of groceries; and whether both the canteen and the grocery store are open for trading on Sundays.
  (Answered by Mr. Secretary Haldane.) The Question refers to a matter of local administration; the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief in Ireland has been asked to furnish the information.

  Deferred Pay of D. Bremner (3rd Infantry Brigade, Aldershot).
  MR. S ALTER: To ask the Secretary of State for War whether he has yet completed the inquiries promised on the 2nd July last into the case of D. Bremner, formerly corporal in charge of the medical inspection room, 3rd Infantry Brigade, Aldershot, who was discharged from the Army on the 6th February, 1906, after twenty-four and a half years' service, without receiving the deferred pay to which he became entitled on his discharge, such deferred pay being withhold from him on the alleged ground that he was only a private and had improperly drawn corporal's pay from 1st November, 1902, until 31st January, 1906; whether Bremner was not, in fact, appointed corporal by the colonel commanding the 42nd Regimental District in July, 1901, and therefore, until the date of his discharge, continuously performed corporal's duties, drew corporal's pay with the knowledge and sanction of the Pay Office, and was allowed to wear corporal's uniform; and, if so, will he state, in view of the facts, what justification exists for withholding Bremner's deferred pay, and whether it will now be paid to him, or what other course it is proposed to take in the matter.
  (Answered by Mr. Secretary Haldane.) This case has been very fully inquired

  873
  into by the Army Council, and, in view of the fact that Bremner was aware that an improper rate of pay was being issued to him and that he had no right to wear a corporal's stripe, it was decided to withhold the issue of his deferred pay as a set-off against the amount of pay he had improperly drawn.

  Disposal of Officers and Non-Commissioned Officers of Disbanded Regiments.
  MR. SALTER: To ask the Secretary of State for War what course it is proposed to take in regard to the officers and non-commissioned officers of those battalions which are about to be disbanded.
  (Answered by Mr. Secretary Haldane.) The officers and non-commissioned officers of these battalions will be supernumerary to the establishment of the Army, and will remain on full pay until they can be absorbed in their own or other regiments. I may add that every endeavour will be made to mitigate any injury to officers' prospects entailed by these reductions.

  Women's Enfranchisement.
  SIR GEORGE DOUGHTY: To ask the Prime Minister whether, in view of the disturbance caused by women within the precincts of this House and their subsequent imprisonment, he will state whether it is the intention of the Government to deal with the question of granting votes to women either in the present or the next session.
  (Answered by Sir H. Campbell-Bannerman.): I do not see the connection between the disturbance referred to and the intentions of the Government, which are not likely to be affected by incidents of the kind. It would be impossible to deal with this important question this session, nor am I able to say anything at present as to the business for next session.

QUESTIONS IN THE HOUSE.

  H.M.S. "Duncan."
  MR. BELLAIRS: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty what is the estimated cost of the repairs of H.M S. "Duncan," in connection with
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  the damage done when she touched ground at Lundy Island?
  THE SECRETARY TO THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. EDMUND ROBERTSON,): Five hundred pounds.

  Soap Contracts for the Admiralty.
  MR. CLAUDE HAY: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether any of the soap purchased by the Admiralty has been purchased from firms associated with the soap trust?
  MR. EDMUND ROBERTSON: It has not been necessary for the Admiralty to make fresh contracts for soap since the reports have appeared in the Press regarding the formation of a combine by certain soap manufacturing firms. A number of the firms on the Admiralty list are reported to have joined the combine, while others apparently have not done so.
  MR. CLAUDE HAY: Will the Admiralty take steps to ensure that in future no soap is purchased from firms interested in the trust?
  [No Answer was returned]

  Naval Shipbuilding.
  MR. BELLAIRS: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether it is the intention of the Admiralty to lay down the ship at Pembroke, which has been officially described both as a mother ship for destroyers and as a scout, before Vote 8 of next year's Estimates is passed?
  MR. EDMUND ROBERTSON: It is intended to lay down the ship referred to soon after the beginning of the next financial year, and, therefore, before the Estimates are brought on.
  MR. BELLAIRS: Is it intended to lay the ship down before Vote 8 is passed?
  MR. EDMUND ROBERTSON: I am told that Vote will not be taken till June or July and the ship will be laid down before that.

  Rifle Clubs.
  MR. HICKS BEACH: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War if he can now state

  875
  whether it is the intention of His Majesty's Government to stimulate the growth of rifle clubs throughout the country by a grant from Imperial funds.
  THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. HALDANE,): I regret that I am unable to add anything to my reply to a Question asked by the hon. Member on this subject on the 28th June last.†
  † See (4) Debates, clix., 1110.

  Volunteer Training.
  SIR SAMUEL SCOTT: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether, in view of the fact that the Volunteer year commences on the 1st November, he is yet in a position to state if it is intended to compel Volunteer battalions willing to train in camp for fifteen days to train only seven days, now that the Volunteer Field Army Brigades will cease to exist after the current financial year.
  MR. HALDANE: I regret that I am not yet in a position to announce a decision on this question.
  SIR SAMUEL SCOTT: When is a decision likely to be given?
  MR. HALDANE: Very soon.

  6th. (Inniskilling) Dragoons.
  VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGH (Maidstone): I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether the Army Council is calling for the names of subaltern officers of the Imperial Yeomanry who are desirous of being attached to the 6th (Inniskilling) Dragoons; and, if so, will he state the grounds on which this step is being taken.
  MR. HALDANE: The 6th Dragoons are short of four subalterns, and it is proposed, as a temporary measure, to select two Yeomanry officers for service with this regiment. They will be attached for duty with it.

  Sword Contracts.
  MR. ARTHUR HENDERSON: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether any orders for swords or sword-bayonets have been placed with private firms during the
  †See (4) Debates, elix., 1110.
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  present year; whether the practice of accepting delivery at contractor's works is still pursued; what are the qualifications of the officers who pass the work; and what furthur examination is made prior to final acceptance by the War Office.
  MR. HALDANE: No orders for sword or sword-bayonets have been placed with private firms this year except for experimental swords for trial. Orders have, however, been given to a private firm for the conversion of 10,000 sword-bayonets. The practice of accepting delivery at the contractor's works is still in force. The officers employed in inspecting small arms are selected for this duty on account of their special knowledge obtained through their training at the Ordnance College, Woolwich. No further examination is carried out after the examination at the contractor's works in accordance with the specification has been made.

  War Office Soap Contracts.
  MR. CLAUDE HAY: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether any of the soap purchased for purposes of his Department has been purchased from any of the firms associated with the soap trust.
  MR. HALDANE: No contracts for soap have been placed by this Department during the past six months, but tenders are now under considerations.
  MR. CLAUDE HAY: Will the right hon. Gentleman exclude firms associated with the soap trust?
  MR. HALDANE: We go on the principle of getting the cheapest and the best.
  MR. BELLOC: Will the right hon. Gentleman see that no soap is obtained from any firm connected with a trust the principal of which contributes to the Party funds of the Liberal Party?
  [No Answer was returned.]

  Waltham Abbey.
  COLONEL LOCKWOOD: I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office if he can now

  877
  state definitely the arrangement come to as to the wages at Waltham Abbey.
  *THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY TO THE WAR OFFICE (Mr. BUCHANAN,): No decision has yet been arrived at with regard to the wages at Waltham Abbey.
  COLONEL LOCKWOOD: Is there any prospect of an early settlement?
  *MR. BUCHANAN: Yes, I hope so.

  3rd Coldstream Guards.
  COLONEL LOCKWOOD: I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office what allowance will the Government make to the married officers and noncommissed officers of the 3rd Coldstream Guards to meet the expenses of their journey to Egypt in this October and their return to this country twelve months hence.
  MR. BUCHANAN: These officers and non-commissioned officers will receive the usual regulated allowances. It is not intended to treat this battalion, in respect of the expenses of its move, differently from other infantry battalions.

  Newfoundland.
  MR. ASHLEY: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether it is not usual to obtain the adherence of a self-governing colony to any agreement with a foreign Power before applying the provisions of that agreement to that colony; and, if so, on what ground this practice was departed from in the case of the Newfoundland fisheries.
  THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (Mr. CHURCHILL,): The agreement to which I understand the hon. Member to refer is a temporary arrangement intended to avoid the occurrence of untoward incidents during a discussion which has become necessary in consequence of action which the colonial Government has taken in spite of the representations of His Majesty's Government. The usual course has been followed in regard to this temporary agreement of consulting the colonial Government at every step; but the ultimate responsibility for the action
  878
  taken by Great Britain in order to give effect to her treaty engagements with foreign Powers necessarily rests upon His Majesty's Government. My hon. friend will discover in the action of Lord Salisbury's Government in 1890 in the matter of the modus vivendi with France respecting the Newfoundland Lobster Fishery, should he find the time to examine it, ample and conclusive precedent for the course adopted.
  SIR HOWARD VINCENT: Is it not the fact that Lord Salisbury acted with the full concurrence of the colony, whereas the action of his Majesty's Government in the present case is by no means with the concurrence of the colony?
  [No Answer was returned.]
  MR. ASHLEY: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will lay on the Table the correspondence with the United States Government and the Government of Newfoundland, which led up to the present modus vivendi with reference to the Newfoundland fisheries.
  THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Sir EDWARD GREY, Northumberland, Berwick): Steps are being taken to prepare the Papers, which will be laid before the House at the earliest moment possible.
  LORD R. CECIL: Can the right hon. Gentleman give any indication when we may expect to have the Papers, and whether they will include the whole of the correspondence between the colony and the Government?
  SIR EDWARD GREY: I am in consultation with the Colonial Office as to the preparation of the Papers, and am not now able to answer the Question of the noble Lord.

  Chinese Coolies in South African Mines.
  MR. ASHLEY: I beg to ask the Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies what number of Chinese coolies were employed in the South African mines on 1st October, 1905, and 1st October, 1906.
  MR. CHURCHILL: The numbers on 30th September, 1905, were 44,538; the numbers for 30th September, 1906, 53,430. I have not the numbers for 1st October.

  Harrar.
  MR. ASHLEY: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he can now state who has been appointed to succeed Ras Makunen as Governor of Harrar.
  SIR EDWARD GREY: I am not aware that a successor to the late Ras Makunen has yet been appointed.
  MR. ASHLEY: Is there no Governor of Harrar?
  SIR EDWARD GREY: I can only repeat I am not aware of any successor having been appointed.

  Curacoa Sulphate Mines.
  MR. KEIR HARDIE (Merthyr Tydvil): I beg the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether his attention has been called to the case of a British subject, named Godden, who is the chief proprietor of the sulphate mines in the island of Curacoa, West Indies, who persists, for reasons of his own, in keeping the mines only partially employed, thereby depriving many people of work and bringing hardship upon the inhabitants; whether the Dutch Government, as a result of this, is proposing to enact a law to acquire all mines which are not being fully worked, paying the owners due compensation; whether Mr. Goddon has stated that he would secure the intervention of the British Government, should this be done; and whether he has any official authority for this statement.
  SIR EDWARD GREY: The matter has been brought to my knowledge, as well as to that of my predecessor. A Bill has been introduced into the Nether-lands Chambers having for its object the regulation of mining in the Island of Curacoa and modelled on the laws of Netherland East India on the subject. I understand that the Bill has been drawn so as not to be retroactive. I have no information as to the statement to which the hon. Member alludes; the action of His Majesty's Government has been confined to oppressing unofficially to the
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  Netherlands Government their hope, before the introduction of the Bill, that it would not in any way be detrimental to existing British interests.

  Aliens in the British Consular Service.
  MR. BOTTOMLEY (Hackney, S.): I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will grant a Return of all members of the consular and diplomatic services who are either aliens or Levantines.
  SIR EDWARD GREY: There are no aliens in the diplomatic service, nor in the salaried Consular service. A few of His Majesty's consuls are Englishmen who are believed to have been born in the Levant. I could perhaps obtain this information for the hon. Member, but a published Return seems hardly called for. A list of unsalaried members of the Consular Service will be found on pp. 14 to 18 of the Foreign Office list. Those who are not of British nationality are easily distinguishable by their names.
  SIR GILBERT PARKER (Gravesend): Have the Government any intention as far as possible of replacing foreigners by British subjects as Vice-Consuls?
  SIR EDWARD GREY: There are no foreigners in the salaried Consular service. The unsalaried Consular service is composed generally of persons engaged in trade. Wherever a British subject is resident and is suitable, of course he is appointed in preference to a foreigner.
  MR. BOTTOMLEY: May I ask whether, in appointing these British Consuls and Vice-Consuls, it is made a condition that they shall be capable of speaking the English language?
  SIR EDWARD GREY: Perhaps the hon. Member will give notice of this Question. But in regard to the unsalaried Consular service, of course it is not a regular service in the ordinary sense of the term, and it is necessary in appointing unpaid persons engaged in trade to take the best men available.
  MR. BOTTOMLEY: But does not the unsalaried Vice-Consul take fees on everything he does in pursuance of his office?
  SIR EDWARD GREY: He has allowances which cover the expenses of the office, but there is no salary.
  SIR GILBERT PARKER: Is it not the case that when the Consul is absent the Vice-Consul discharges his duty, and may be called upon to act for him and represent this country where national interests are concerned, and, therefore, would it not be better to have a British subject wherever possible to act as Vice-Consul?
  SIR EDWARD GREY: I think it follows from my previous Answer that wherever a British subject is available he would be appointed in preference to a foreigner.

  Arzila.
  MR. ASHLEY: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he proposes to dispatch a war ship to Arzila in order to protect the lives and property of British subjects.
  SIR EDWARD GREY: The latest information is to the effect that order has been restored by Raisuli at Arzila, and that the only British subjects who were known to be in the place have left in safety. It is not proposed to send a ship of war.

  Undesirable Immigrants.
  SIR HOWARD VINCENT: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if the Home Office has laid down a Rule that immigrants thrown back upon this country by the American Republic as diseased and undesirable are, if they aver they are refugees, to be treated as first arrivals; and if he will say whether steps are taken to secure the separation of administrative decisions from any race or creed sympathy.
  *THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. GLADSTONE,): No such rule has been made. Alien transmigrants who fail to reach or obtain admission to their destination in America are not allowed to remain in the United Kingdom except in circumstances approved by the Secretary of State in each case under the special powers given him by Section 8 (1) (b) of the Act. Such permission has only been given in a very
  882
  few exceptional cases. As regards the second part of the hon. and gallant Member's Question, I have to say that of course I am personally responsible for all Home Office decisions. While I sympathise with his anxiety that equal justice shall be done, I can assure him that though I hold the Christian faith, I do not allow my creed sympathies to interfere with the administration of the law when these are concerned who profess a different faith.
  SIR HOWARD VINCENT: Then the statement of the Jewish Chronicle of 12th October may be considered to have no foundation in fact?
  *MR. GLADSTONE: I have not seen the passage.
  MR. MYER: Should not the word "antipathy" be substituted for "sympathy" in the Question.
  [No Answer was returned.]

  Trades Unions and Coroners' Inquests.
  *MR. HOOPER (Dudley): I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether an official of a recognised trade union, to which a workman belonged at the time of his death by accident, can attend the inquest as the representative of the deceased if requested to do so by his personal representatives or next of kin; and, if not, whether he will instruct coroners to grant the requisite permission.
  *MR. GLADSTONE: I have of course no power to regulate rights of audience in any court, but under the provisions of Section 21 (2) of the Factory Act and Section 48 (8) of the Coal Mines Act the relatives of a person who has met his death by accident in a factory or mine are empowered to attend the inquest and, either personally or by agent, to examine witnesses, subject to the order of the coroner. I know of no reason to prevent an official of a trade union acting as such agent at the request of the relatives, and I am informed that it is, in fact, the practice of nearly all, if not all, coroners to give permission to such representatives and to afford them every facility to elicit any special point, and to accept their assistance in ascertaining the true facts of the case.
  MR. J. WARD: Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are stipulations in the Workmen's Compensation Acts authorising the appearance of the agents appointed by relatives, and will he instruct the coroners' courts to bear that in mind?
  *MR. GLADSTONE: I am aware of that, but I have no knowledge of any cases where coroners have refused to give effect to the provisions referred to.

  Diachylon.
  MR. SAMUEL ROBERTS: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to the cases of two women, Sarah Elizabeth Carford and Polly West, tried and found guilty of supplying dangerous pills containing diachylon at the, Sheffield Quarter Sessions on the 25th inst., and sentenced to twelve and six months imprisonment with hard labour; and whether, considering the increasing use of diachylon by women for certain purposes, he can see his way to have this drug and its preparations scheduled as a poison.
  *MR. GLADSTONE: I have seen a report of the cases referred to by the hon. Member. I am informed that the Lord President of the Council is advised that to schedule diachylon as a poison would entail great inconvenience without attaining the object desired. It may be hoped that the convictions at Sheffield will serve as an effective deterrent.
  MR. SAMUEL ROBERTS: Has the right hon. Gentleman taken into consideration the increasing use of this drug?
  *MR. GLADSTONE: That is a different matter.

  Bolton Poaching Case.
  *MR. W. T. WILSON: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention has been called to a decision given by the magistrates at the county police court held at Bolton on the 8th inst., when three men were convicted for poaching and assaulting a gamekeeper and three policemen, and sentenced, two of them to six months imprisonment with hard labour, and to
  884
  find securities at the end of the term, or in default undergo a further term of twelve months imprisonment, while the other man was sentenced to three months imprisonment with hard labour, and to find securities or be imprisoned for a further six months, while, for assaulting the keeper one man was sentenced to two months, and for assaulting the police, the other two men were sentenced to six months imprisonment, the terms of imprisonment to be consecutive; and whether he will inquire into the case with the object of reducing the sentences imposed.
  *MR. GLADSTONE: My attention having been called to the case by my hon. friend's Question, I asked the magistrates for a report, which I have received to-day. At present I can only say that great violence was used on the keepers, the prisoners being armed with formidable bludgeons, that the prisoners might have been tried by a jury at quarter sessions, but elected to be tried at petty sessions, and that the sentences for night poaching are concurrent with the sentences for the assaults, and not consecutive.
  MR. W. T. WILSON: Was not the word consecutively used when the sentences were passed?
  *MR. GLADSTONE: My information is that they are concurrent and not consecutive. I have no information as to the words used in passing sentence.

  Hugh Watt.
  MR. BOTTOMLEY: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will direct that the one year's imprisonment, to which the sentence upon Hugh Watt has been reduced, shall count from the commencement of the sessions at which he was convicted. Will the right hon. Gentleman also direct that Watt shall have the benefit of the marks he has earned for good conduct whilst in prison?
  *MR. GLADSTONE: Hugh Watt's term of detention before his release on licence will, subject of course to his good conduct, be one year from the first day of the sessions at which he was convicted, namely, the 11th of December, 1905. I have decided to advise this great lenience on the assumption that his

  885
  conduct will be good. I cannot add anything further to it on that account.

  Assistant Inspectors of Factories.
  MR. ARTHER HENDERSON: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he can now give particulars of the proposed classification scheme relating to the status and new duties of assistant inspectors of factories mentioned in his speech in the House on the 1st August; and whether these officers, most of whom have over ten years service, are still forbidden to enter factories.
  *MR. GLADSTONE: The proposed new scheme is under consideration with the Treasury, from whom I am at present awaiting a reply. Pending the introduction of that scheme, no alteration is being made in the duties of the assistants.

  Diseased Alien Immigrants.
  SIR HOWARD VINCENT: I beg to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department why Taube Genen, Schie Birow, and Josef Gureivitz, who were refused admittance to the United States of America as suffering from trachoma and being otherwise undesirable associates for the citizens of the Republic, were, upon their rejection at New York, admitted, on his special order, to this country as desirable immigrants; and if he can explain the reasons for the course adopted, and say how many of His Majesty's subjects have since been infected with the contagious disorders from which these aliens were suffering.
  *MR. GLADSTONE: These three persons were not immigrants within the meaning of the Act, but transmigrants. The woman named Genen was suffering from trachoma, and the two men from hernia and heart disease respectively. An appeal was made on their behalf on the ground that they were refugees from disturbed parts of Russia, and, after careful inquiry, I decided to allow them to remain in the United Kingdom under the special powers given me with regard to transmigrants by Section 8 (1) (b) of the Act. Before doing so, I obtained guarantees for the medical treatment of the woman with a view to prevent infection and to effect a cure, and for the maintenance of the two men.
  SIR HOWARD VINCENT: Is it a fact that these persons were refused admission into the United States as unfit associates for citizens of the Republic?
  *MR. GLADSTONEreplied that they were refused admission.

  Registration of Joint Stock Companies in Guernsey.
  MR. BOTTOMLEY: I beg to ask Mr. Attorney-General whether he is aware of the growing practice of registering joint stock companies in Guernsey, for the purpose of carrying on business in England, thus avoiding the stamp duty payable upon English registration, and also depriving the shareholders of the protection afforded by various companies Acts passed in recent years and which have not been adopted by the island; and whether he is prepared to advise His Majesty's Government to take any action in the matter.
  *MR. GLADSTONE: I beg to answer this Question on behalf of my hon. friend. The practice of registering joint stock companies in the Island of Guernsey is not a growing, but a rapidly declining one, as appears from the figures given in the 15th Report of the Board of Trade, under Section 39 of the Companies (Winding up) Act of 1890, page 7. The matter has been dealt with by the Insular Legislature, which has drafted a Projet de Loi, now under consideration. The subject is also being considered by the Treasury and the Board of Trade in connection with the Report of the Departmental Committee on Company Law Amendment recently issued.

  Birmingham School Teacher and Outside Employment.
  *MR. O'GRADY: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Education whether his attention has been called to a case in Birmingham where the head teacher at the Birmingham School of Art, receiving a salary of £400 per annum for his services as teacher of modelling, has been for some time working at stone carving on a number of new buildings in the district, thus displacing competent stone carvers, whose only means of earning a living is to work at their trade; and, if so, will he say whether this is a violation of the regulations; and whether an inquiry will be made into the case, and

  887
  steps taken generally to prohibit the adoption of such practice in future.
  THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF EDUCATION (Mr. BIRRELL,)I surmise that the person referred to was the principal teacher of the modelling department of the school and not its head-master. The teaching staff of the Birmingham School of Art are employed by the local education authority, and do not serve the Board of Education. The only regulation of the Board, as regards schools of art receiving grants from the Board, bearing on such a matter, is one which enacts that the teaching staff "must not engage in any other employment which will prevent the efficient discharge of their duties as teachers." The Board have no knowledge of this particular case, but certainly work of the nature referred to in the Question would not be any infringement of this regulation. The Board have no power under the Regulations to intervene unless they have grounds for supposing that the employment of the teacher on outside work was, in fact, interfering with the efficient discharge of his duties as a teacher. The matter is one for the local authority to consider.
  *MR. O'GRADY: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the head master of the Birmingham Art School stated that no teacher was allowed to carry on business outside, and yet this teacher has contracted to do outside labour?
  MR. BIRRELL: That is a question for the local authority. I can only intervene with a teacher who undertakes work which interferes with the efficient discharge of his duty.
  *MR. O'GRADY: But is not the right hon. Gentleman of opinion that such work as this would interfere with the teacher's work in his school?
  MR. BIRRELL: If it were brought to my notice that a teacher was doing outside work to interfere with his teaching business I should intervene.
  *MR. O'GRADY: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that men engaged in stone carving in Birmingham have pointed out that it is an interference?
  MR. BIRRELL: Then why does not the local authority interfere? If the matter is brought to my notice I will consider if it does interfere with the duties of the teacher.

  Rifle Shooting in Schools.
  MR. J. WARD: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Education whether any Order similar to that of the Kent authority to allow the practice of rifle shooting in elementary schools was petitioned for previously by any other county authority and refused by the late Administration.
  MR. BIRRELL: So far as I can discover, no such application was made during the late Administration. Two applications were, however, received in 1901—one from Manningtree National School (Essex), the other from Kimblesworth Colliery School (Durham). These applications were refused. It must be remembered that there were at that time no local education authorities claiming to represent the views of the ratepayers.
  MR. J. WARD: In view of the fact that these five orders were issued under a misapprehension, will the hon. Gentleman direct their revocation at once?
  MR. BIRRELL: I have already stated that having regard to the letters that were written it would not be fair to the local authority, who were entitled to assume that the letters were written with authority.
  SIR GILBERT PARKER: Is it intended also to prohibit the handling of rifles at drill in the schools?
  MR. BIRRELL: Pending the Report the use of rifles will not be tolerated in the schools.

  Swansea School Dispute.
  LORD BALCARRES: I beg to ask the President of the Board of Education whether he is aware that the Swansea local education authority have passed a resolution deciding, in breach of their legal duties and in defiance of the decision of the right hon. Gentleman, to cease to maintain some Swansea voluntary schools; and will he say whether they have given formal notice

  889
  to that effect to the managers and the Board of Education.
  MR. BIRRELL: The resolution of the 19th instant of the Swansea local education authority merely expressed their intention to adopt a certain course at a future date. From a communication that the Board of Education have now received it is understood that that intention will not be carried out and that the notified cessation of maintenance will not, in fact, occur.
  LORD R. CECIL: Is it not the fact that at the conference at Cardiff a resolution condemning the action of the Department was put without protest by the President of the Board of Trade, who presided?
  MR. BIRRELL: If the noble Lord has ever attempted to act as peacemaker he will know the difficulty and will be aware that it is best to say nothing in the course of the operation.

  Free Meals for School Children.
  DR. MACNAMARA: I beg to ask the Prime Minister whether he can say if it will be possible for the Government to give the necessary time this session for the further discussion of the Provision of Meals for School Children Bill, which now awaits Report to the House from a Select Commiteee.
  MR. HAROLD COX: I beg at the same time to ask whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that the Committee which considered this Bill reported that the unhealthy appearance of many of the children was often erroneously attributed to want of food, and was rather duo to late hours, unsanitary surroundings, and work out of school; whether the Committee were precluded from considering these other causes; and whether, before proceeding with a Bill which ignored these other causes, the Government will appoint a Committee to consider the subject, with a sufficiently wide reference.
  THE PRIME MINISTER AND FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Sir H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN Stirling Burghs): I have only just received the notice of my hon. friend's somewhat argumentative Question. Of course there may be other
  890
  reasons for an unhealthy appearance than want of food. I have known of cases where the unhealthy appearance was created by too much food. In dealing with this question generally, it is the fact that starvation is not the only cause of unhealthy appearance With regard to the Question on the Paper, I hope that an opportunity may be found for proceeding with this Bill, which is, I believe, largely supported on both sides of the House. But, of course, I ought to add this. If the legislation at present or shortly to come before the House is very much delayed, this and possibly other useful measures will be endangered.

  Magazine Bates for Canada.
  MR. EVELYN CECIL: I beg to ask the Postmaster-General whether he has been able to make any progress towards arriving at an arrangement by which a reduction of the postal rates to Canada on British magazines, periodicals, and newspapers may be effected, having regard to the special circumstances of the case.
  THE POSTMASTER-GENERAL (Mr. SYDNEY BUXTON,): As the hon. Member is, I think, aware, some little time ago I made certain proposals to the Dominion Government with a view to a revision of the postage rates on newspapers and periodicals to Canada; and the Dominion Government are now considering these proposals in a friendly spirit.

  Post Office Clocks.
  MR. CLOUGH: I beg to ask the Postmaster-General whether regulations have been issued for clocks to be provided in all post offices for the use of the public; whether these are to be provided at the expense of the Department or of the sub-postmasters; and whether increments in the salaries of sub-postmasters of several years standing are being used to bring pressure upon these sub-postmasters to provide the clocks at their own expense, although this condition was not in their original agreements.
  MR. SYDNEY BUXTON: In May, 1903, instructions were issued that all newly appointed sub-postmasters, as a condition of their appointment, and as part of their undertaking to supply

  891
  satisfactory accommodation, should be required to supply clocks visible to the public. These instructions do not apply to those sub-postmasters who were appointed prior to May, 1903. There is no record of any case in which pressure has been brought to bear on a sub-postmaster in the circumstances mentioned by the hon. Member.

  Local Post Office Guides.
  MR. MACLEAN: I beg to ask the Postmaster-General whether he will take steps to publish monthly in all important postal centres a local Post Office Guide, similar to those published in Edinburgh and district and Liverpool and district.
  MR. SYDNEY BUXTON: The sale of local Post Office Guides at such offices as those mentioned by the hon. Member is very small and their publication results in a considerable loss to the Post Office. I fear it would not be practicable therefore to extend the issue of local Post Office Guides, but I am considering the matter.

  Soap for the Office of Works.
  MR. CLAUDE HAY: I beg to ask the First Commissioner of Works whether any of the soap purchased for the purposes of the Office of Works, or of any of the Departments for the supply of soap to which he is responsible, has been supplied by any of the firms associated with the soap trust.
  THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (Mr. HARCOURT,): The following firms associated with the soap manufacturers' combination are at present under contract to supply soap, viz., Crosfield & Sons, Ltd., for best Windsor soap and soap powder, Vinolia Co., Ltd., for household bar soaps.
  MR. CLAUDE HAY: Will the right hon. Gentleman "bar" soap from these firms in future?
  [No Answer was returned.]

  Welsh Trade Union Dispute.
  MR. ASHLEY: I beg to ask Mr. Attorney-General whether he proposes to instruct the Public Prosecutor to take
  892
  any action in the case of two non-unionists who were taken by force in the Maesteg district of Wales on 4th September last, tied together in a wheelbarrow and thrown into a river, with the view of bringing the offenders to justice.
  THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Sir JOHN WALTON, Leeds, S.): If such a charge as that described in the Question could be substantiated I should certainly direct steps to be taken to bring the offenders to justice. But the Public Prosecutor informs me that he has received a letter from the Chief Constable, in which he says that, after inquiries made on the spot, he has been unable to discover that the wheelbarrow incident mentioned in the Question ever took place.
  MR. KEIR HARDIE: Was not the whole thing a practical joke?
  SIR JOHN WALTON: I am afraid that it did not take place even as a joke.

  Government Printing Contracts.
  MR. CHIOZZA MONEY: I beg to ask the Prime Minister whether his attention has been directed to the fact that, according to the Report of the Official Publications Committee, the Savings Bank Department obtained the permission of the Treasury to do its own printing instead of putting it out to private contract, with the result that they have succeeded in undertaking their printing more economically than when it was contracted for; whether he is aware that some of the official printing now put out to contract is carried out by irregularly paid workmen who are compelled to wait about in the public thoroughfares on the chance of a job; and whether, under the circumstances, he will consider the advisability of saving money and insuring the regular employment of workmen by establishing a Government printing department.
  THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY (Mr. MCKENNA,): The Answer to the first part of the Question is in the affirmative. I am informed that one firm of Government printers are compelled to employ irregularly paid workmen in addition to

  893
  their regular staff, because the work entrusted to them is generally of an urgent character and varies largely in amount. Those additional workmen are paid at "piece-work" rates and if my information is correct even men who are in regular work elsewhere are eager to obtain this casual employment. With regard to the last part of my hon. friend's Question it is hardly necessary for me to say that the recommendations of the Select Committee are now engaging the attention of the Government.
  MR. CHIOZZA MONEY: The information I have received is that the men are paid so irregularly that sometimes they get only a few shillings a week.
  MR. MCKENNA: That is not my information.

  Sanitary Condition of Lewis.
  *MR. WEIR (KOSS and Cromarty): I beg to ask the Secretary for Scotland, in view of the fact that a sum of £200 out of the money payable to the Lewis District Committee as the share of the equivalent grant was allocated last year for public health purposes in the island, will he state why the Committee have not yet submitted a scheme under which this money may be applied, specially having regard to the fact that the sanitary condition of the island does not conform to the requirements of the Public Health Act, as shown in the report of Dr. Dittmar, Medical Inspector for Scotland.
  THE SECRETARY FOR SCOTLAND (Mr. SINCLAIR,): I have not been able to verify the statement made by the hon. Member in the early part of his Question. If he will kindly let me have definite information I shall be glad to communicate with him further.

  Dr. Dittmar's Report on the Lews.
  *MR. WEIR: I beg to ask the Secretary for Scotland, having regard to the fact that the last Report of the Local Government Board for Scotland shows that the Board have been furnished with a Memorandum by Dr. Dittmar, Medical Inspector, entitled "Memorandum on Statistical Data presented by the Lews for Ten Years to 1904," will he lay this document upon the Table of the House.
  MR. SINCLAIR: As I have already informed my hon. friend, I do not think any useful purpose would be served by presentation to Parliament at the present time of the Report in question.
  *MR. WEIR: Is not the right hon. Gentleman aware that phthisis is so prevalent in the Island of Lewis that in the interest of the public the Report should be laid?
  MR. SINCLAIR: The Report adds nothing to the information already before Parliament.

  Scottish Medical Inspectorate.
  *MR. WEIR: I beg to ask the Secretary for Scotland whether he is aware that while in Scotland there are five inspectors under the Public Health Acts, only one of whom is a medical officer, there are in Ireland seven medical inspectors, and seeing that it is impossible for one medical inspector to overtake the whole of the work for Scotland, will he consider the advisability of arranging in next year's Estimates for additional medical inspectors for Scotland.
  MR. SINCLAIR: I cannot at present undertake to provide for the additional medical inspection suggested by the hon. Member.

  Kells Fishing Industry.
  MR. BOLAND: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether the attention of the Congested Districts Board has been called to the memorial presented by the fishermen of Kells, county Kerry, urging that a pier be built; and whether, in view of the facts that there are twenty-two fishing boats in this cove, that the crews number in all seventy hands, that the catch of fish last season was 250,000, and that there is difficulty in landing boats, this application, first presented eleven years ago, will now be acceded to.
  THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. BRYCE,): I am informed that the memorial in question has been received and will be considered at the next meeting of the Congested Districts Board.

  Irish Trade Reports.
  MR. BOLAND: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether any, and, if so, what, steps have been taken by the Department of Agriculture to secure the publication in a succinct form of the various references to the trade of Ireland with foreign countries contained in the Consular Reports for 1905.
  MR. BRYCE: The Department of Agriculture have collected the references to Irish Trade contained in the Consular Reports for 1905, and propose to publish them as an appendix to the Report on Irish Imports and Exports for 1905 which is to be issued.

  County Down Deputy Lieutenancy.
  MR. MACVEAGH: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he can state how many deputy lieutenants can be appointed for the county of Down; whether he can explain why all the thirty-four deputy lieutenants at present holding appointments in that county are Unionists, although nearly half the population are either Nationalists or Liberals; and whether the Crown can withhold its sanction from such appointments.
  MR. T. L. CORBETT: I dissent from the statement in the Question regarding the population.
  MR. BRYCE: The number of deputy lieutenants for the county of Down as at present fixed is thirty-four. There is no official record of the political views of gentlemen who hold the office. Appointments to the deputy lieutenancy in Ireland are subject to the approval of the Lord-Lieutenant, who can withhold his sanction.
  MR. MACVEAGH: I know the political views of them all well.

  Royal University of Ireland.
  MR. MACVEAGH: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether any regulations were made by the Senate of the Royal University of Ireland for the issue of tickets for the conferring of degrees; and, if so,
  896
  whether he can state the terms of such regulations.
  MR. BRYCE: I am informed by the Secretary of the Royal University that regulations as to the issue of tickets for admission to the conferring of degrees have been made by a committee appointed by the Senate for the purpose. The regulations provide the maximum of tickets which may be issued to each person of the following classes who may apply, viz., twelve to each Senator, six to each fellow or examiner, three to each candidate graduate, and one to each distinguished graduate. In the latter case the ticket is to be used for the graduate's own admission, and the number issued is not to exceed 100.

  Land Court Work in Ireland.
  MR. MURPHY: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that at the end of September, 1906, there were 13,306 applications to fix fair rents and 9,329 appeals in connection with rents undisposed of by the Land Commission and county courts in Ireland; and whether any steps will be taken to deal with these applications at once.
  MR. BRYCE: I am informed by the Land Commission that the facts are as stated. Of the 13,306 applications mentioned, the number pending before the Sub-Commission Courts consisted of 7,732, as compared with 9,025 outstanding on 31st March last. That is to say, during the six months in question there was a decrease of 1,293 in the number of cases undisposed of, notwithstanding the fact that the summer vacation had intervened. The remainder of the applications, viz., 5,573, consist of cases apparently pending in the Civil Bill Courts, but this number includes part of an apparent but not real arrear of 4,915 cases brought forward from the year 1894 under the circumstances stated in the Annual Report of the Land Commission for that year. The 9,329 outstanding appeals referred to include 517 lodged during the vacation. The number outstanding on 31st March last was 9,043, as compared with 12,071 on 31st March, 1905. The question of expediting the hearing of applications and appeals is now under my consideration.

  Lisnagry Labourers Cottage.
  MR. JOYCE: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to the case of a labourer named Thomas Ryan, of Lisnagry, county Limerick, who made application to the No. 1 District Council, Limerick, for a cottage on the lands of Mr. Robert L. Brown, at Lisnagry, the tenant being James Ryan, of Castle Connell; whether he is aware that an inquiry was held on oath at the Limerick Union in November, 1905; that the doctor of the district proved on oath at this inquiry that this labourer, Thomas Ryan, with his wife and seven children, lived in a house that was unfit for human habitation; and that the councillor for the district gave similar evidence, and will he say what objection, if any, was made, and who made it; and whether, under the circumstances, the Local Government Board will be instructed to press this matter so that this man may be enabled to get a decent shelter for his family.
  MR. BRYCE: I am informed that the facts are as stated. The application was opposed by the owner and occupier of the holding on which it was proposed to erect the cottage upon the grounds that the holding contained only twenty acres, and that the proper course would be to erect the cottage on the farm of seventeen acres upon which the applicant resides. The local district councillors, though supporting the application, assigned no reason why the council passed over the site on the holding upon which the labourer lives and chose a plot on a farm immediately adjoining, the occupier of which is a Mr. James Ryan. The inspector consequently recommended that the proposed site should not be authorised. A Provisional Order, authorising the council's scheme to the extent recommended by the inspector, has now been issued, and the Local Government Board are not empowered to add to it. There is, however, nothing to prevent a new scheme being made for giving the labourer a cottage, and I hope this may be promptly done.
  MR. JOYCE: Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that this particular tenant is farming fifty acres not far distant?
  MR. BRYCE: I am not aware of it.

  Mountmellick Evicted Tenant.
  MR. DELANY: I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether he is aware that the agent on Mrs. Adair's estates at Mountmellick, Mr. E. Brown, has refused to permit the inspector to the Estates Commissioners to approach the planter who is in occupation of the holding from which Thomas Flanagan was evicted with the view of coming to an arrangement with him; and, if so, can he say what steps the Commissioners propose taking to effect the reinstatement, or otherwise provide a holding for Flanagan.
  MR. BRYCE: I am informed by the Estates Commissioners that the reply to the first part of the Question is in the affirmative. It is understood that the present tenant of the evicted farm has signed a preliminary agreement to purchase. The Estates Commissioners, however, are in communication with Mrs. Adair as to the purchase of certain untenanted land in the locality, and Flanagan's application will be considered in connection with that or other untenanted land in the district which the Commissioners may acquire.

  Soap for the Irish Board of Works.
  MR. CLAUDE HAY: I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury whether any of the soap purchased by the Irish Board of Works for the purposes of that Department has been supplied by any of the firms associated with the soap trust.
  THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY (Mr. MCKENNA,): I am informed that a portion of the soap supplied to the Board by their contractors has been obtained from firms associated with what the hon. Member describes as the "Soap Trust."
  MR. CLAUDE HAY: Will the hon. Gentleman take steps to see that no soap is in future supplied by these firms.
  MR. MCKENNA: Certainly not.

  Kilgarvan (Cork) Postal Service.
  MR. BOLAND: I beg to ask the Postmaster-General whether he is now in a position to state what steps, if any, he proposes to take in order to improve the postal facilities at Kilgarvan,

  899
  county Kerry, in accordance with the memorial submitted to him.
  MR. SYDNEY BUXTON: I find that the deficit on the postal service to Kilgarvan is already very heavy and the correspondence is light. I am afraid, therefore, that I should not be justified in incurring additional expense on the improvement desired by the hon. Member.

  Local Taxation Reform.
  MR. HICKS BEACH: I beg to ask the Prime Minister whether it is the intention of His Majesty's Government to introduce a measure next session dealing with the reform of local taxation.
  SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN: I must refer the hon. Member to His Majesty's gracious Speech at the beginning of next session, which will give him the information he requires.

  The Dinner Hour.
  COLONEL LOCKWOOD: I beg to ask the Prime Minister whether he will consider the advisability of allowing Members an interval for the dinner hour.
  SIR H. CAMPBELLBANNERMAN: No, Sir; my belief is that the present arrangement is advantageous to public business. Whether this be so or not we have hardly had sufficient experience of it yet to justifiy the consideration of a change.
  COLONEL LOCKWOOD: The Prime Minister will observe that I was careful not to mention any time in my Question. I was moved to ask the Question by the fact that one of the right hon. Gentleman's unfortunate colleagues — unfortunate in the way of having no dinner—complained that he was only mortal, and, although conducting a Bill, had been obliged to go out to get dinner.
  SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN: I have not observed that my right hon. friend has suffered in consequence. I am informed and advised by my medical advisers that the meal to be taken in the evening ought to be an exceedingly light one.
  COLONEL LOCKWOOD: Perhaps the Prime Minister will consult the medical
  900
  adviser of his right hon. friend who got no food at all.

  SELECTION (STANDING COMMITTEES).
  Sir WILLIAM BRAMPTON GURDONreported from the Committee of Selection; That they had added to the Standing Committee on Trade (including Agriculture and Fishing), Shipping, and Manufactures, the following Fifteen Members in respect of the Census of Production Bill: Lord Balcarres, Mr. Harmood-Banner, Sir Thomas Glen Coats, Mr. Boland, Mr. Joyce, Mr. Brigg, Mr. Lever, Mr. Waterlow, Mr. J. W. Wilson, Mr. Cory, Mr. Hutton, Captain Faber, Mr. Richardson, Sir George Doughty, and Mr. Cairns.
  Report to lie upon the Table.

  PLURAL VOTING BILL.
  Considered in Committee.
  (In the Committee.)
  Clause 1:—
  [Mr. EMMOTT (Oldham), in the Chair.]
  Another Amendment proposed—
  "In page 1, line 28, after the words last inserted, to insert the words, 'In the event of the person's name being removed from the register the clerk shall give him notice that his name has been removed.'"—(Mr. Samuel Roberts.)
  Question again proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
  MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid that there was one point which it occurred to him might very well arise, viz., that some gentleman who had not taken the trouble to make his selection before 5th September, might make up his mind that under the Bill he could exercise his vote for the next year. When the revision came, however, he would be struck off and would find that he was not qualified to vote. He thought that under such circumstances a man should have a chance of recording that vote.
  THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (Mr. HARCOURT,)thought the right hon. Gentleman would observe that a man's

  901
  name might be struck off the register in the Revision Court, but this could only be done after the delivery of the objection to the voter, so that he was in no danger of losing his vote, neither was he in danger of being struck off.
  *MR. CARLILEsaid that when the Committee rose the previous night he was endeavouring to point out the essential character of the words contained in the Amendment and the importance of their being embodied in the present Bill. In the absence of these words a voter who was qualified in three constituencies, if an objection taken to his name in one constituency was sustained — unless he was advised of the fact of his removal—would very properly take no action with regard to the other constituencies for which he was qualified; whereas if he received a notice of the removal of his name in one constituency he would have an opportunity, according to an undertaking given by the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill, of selecting one of the other constituencies in which his name appeared on the register. In the event of his getting no notice, however, this would practically mean disfranchisement. Such a condition of things seemed most unjust. Many felt that voters under the Bill were receiving very harsh treatment, and his hon. friend's Amendment was framed for the alleviation of that harshness. If it were possible for a man to be many years on the register without his knowing it, it was far more likely that he might be struck off the register and yet not be told. No notice was now given to the ordinary voter, which was rather a source of grief to him, and was often very hard upon him. He had known cases where a voter, unaware of the fact that his name had been struck off the register, had devoted part of a day, and travelled a considerable distance in order to record his vote, only to find, however, when he reached the polling booth, that he could not exercise the right for which he was duly qualified, because, owing to some slight misunderstanding, his name had been removed from the register. If notice were sent to a voter who had three qualifications that his name had been removed from one; of the registers he would be able to select again and so exercise his important civil
  902
  right. An ordinary voter, as the Bill stood, was allowed to act in a perfectly free manner, but the poor plural voter had received a very short shrift and very little consideration from the right hon. Gentleman and hon. Members opposite. It was nothing more nor less than an attempt to filch votes from those who were best qualified to exercise them. A man might be passed over for one year by the agent of the opposition, no question being raised. Thus he would be lulled into a position of security. The following year, however, he would be struck off the register. He would have no idea that such an attempt upon his vote would be made, and consequently would fail to take the necessary steps to protect himself. Surely a man was entitled to the small consideration proposed by the Amendment if, for any cause, his name should be removed from the register. There was also another class of voters—those who wanted to put themselves into a safe position. They knew that certain penalties hung over the heads of the unconscious and the unwary, and they were desirous of making themselves immune. Such a voter, therefore, would write to one of the constituencies, asking the clerk to remove his name; he would also write to the other constituency in which he was qualified, informing them that he was no longer a plural voter. No star would be put against his name. The notice apparently would be duly received by the clerk in the first constituency. The notice would be filed, or pigeon-holed, or in some cases overlooked altogether, and the man's name retained upon the register. The man, thinking he had ceased to be a plural voter, would go down in all confidence for his ballot paper, he would vote, and then afterwards find that people were on his trail, and that a charge of personation was hanging over his head — a charge with which was associated the penalty of two years hard labour, without the option of a fine, to be afterwards followed by seven years deprivation of all civil rights. The man, of course, would immediately succumb and would not survive to take even a quarter of the term of imprisonment hanging over his head. If, however, notice was sent, as the Amendment desired, a man could not be in ignorance of the fact that his name had been removed or that his instructions as to his well-being and comfort had failed to be carried out.

  903
  The great desire of the hon. Member and his supporters was to secure some measure of consideration which at present was entirely absent from the Bill.
  MR. ROWLANDSsaid that what had struck him throughout the whole of the debate was the way in which hon. Members ignored that annual performance known as the registration Court. They had heard a great deal about the plural voter being taken off the register without his knowledge, but if any hon. Member on the other side would look at the registration laws they would see that a vote to which objection was taken could not be removed from the register without notice being served upon the person concerned. If a voter's name was removed otherwise than because somebody declared that he was not duly qualified, the overseers must be deliberately neglecting their duty, and no Amendment of this Bill would meet
  that case, which belonged to another department of the law.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid that the overseers prepared the list, and if a man was qualified they were bound to put him on. The purpose of the Amendment was as to giving notice where a man's name had been left off. If a man had been on the register for the previous year, and his name had been removed for the ensuing year he should have some, notice of the fact. It was entirely wrong to suppose that a man's name could not be removed from the register without his knowledge. Such removal was unfair, and it was against it that the Amend was directed.
  Question put.
  The Committee divided:—Ayes, 80; Noes, 301. (Division List No. 343.)

  AYES.

  Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F

  Duncan, Robert (Lanark,G'v'n

  Neil, Herbert

  Anstruther-Gray, Major

  Fell, Arthur

  Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)

  Ashley, W. W.

  Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

  Parkes, Ebenezer

  Balcarres, Lord

  Forster, Henry William

  Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington

  Balfour, Rt Hn. A. J. (City Lond.

  Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

  Percy, Earl

  Banbury, Sir Frederick George

  Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

  Powell, Sir Francis Sharp

  Banner, John S. Harmood-

  Gordon, Sir W. Evans-(T'r N'm

  Randles, Sir John Scurrah

  Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)

  Hamilton, Marquess of

  Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

  Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

  Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

  Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)

  Beckett, Hon. Gervase

  Hay, Hon. Claude George

  Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

  Bowles, G. Stewart

  Heaton, John Henniker

  Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

  Bridgeman, W. Clive

  Hills, J. W.

  Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, E.)

  Bull, Sir William James

  Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H.

  Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

  Butcher, Samuel Henry

  Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W

  Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.

  Castlereagh Viscount

  Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

  Stone, Sir Benjamin

  Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C.W.

  Lane-Fox, G. R.

  Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

  Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.

  Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich)

  Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)

  Chamberlain. Rt. Hn. J A. (Wor

  Liddell, Henry

  Thornton, Percy M.

  Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E

  Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt. Col. A. R.

  Valentia, Viscount

  Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm'gh'm

  Long, Col. Charles W.(Evesham

  Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard

  Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

  Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.

  Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid

  Courthope, G. Loyd

  Lowe, Sir Francis William

  Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart

  Craig, Charles Curtis(Antrim, S.

  Magnus, Sir Philip

  Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

  Craig, Captain James (Down, E

  Marks, H. H, (Kent)

  Younger, George

  Craik, Sir Henry

  Meysey-Thompson E. C.

  Dalrymple Viscount

  Mildmay, Francis Bingham

  TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Samuel Roberts and Mr. Carlile.

  Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred. Dixon

  Morpeth, Viscount

  Doughty, Sir George

  Muntz, Sir Philip A.

  NOES.

  Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)

  Barlow, John Emmott (S'm'set

  Benn, W.(T'w'r' H'ml'ts,S. Geo

  Acland, Francis Dyke

  Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

  Bertram, Julius

  Ainsworth, John Stirling

  Barnard, E. B.

  Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford)

  Alden, Percy

  Barran, Rowland Hirst

  Billson, Alfred

  Ashton, Thomas Gair

  Beale, W. P.

  Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine

  Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

  Beaumont, Hn. W. C. B. (Hex'm

  Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire

  Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

  Beck, A. Cecil

  Boland, John

  Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

  Bellairs, Carlyon

  Boulton, A. C. F. (Remsey)

  Barker, John

  Belloc, Hilare Joseph Peter R.

  Brace William

  Bramsdon, T. A.

  Glover, Thomas

  Marnham, F. J.

  Brigg, John

  Goddard, Daniel Ford

  Massie, J.

  Bright, J. A.

  Grant, Corrie

  Meagher, Michael

  Brocklehurst, W. B.

  Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

  Menzies, Walter

  Brooke, Stopford

  Greenwood, Hamar (York)

  Micklem, Nathaniel

  Brunner, J. F. L.(Lancs., Leigh)

  Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

  Molteno, Percy Alport

  Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J.T.(Chesh.

  Gulland, John W.

  Money, L. G Chiozza

  Brvce, Rt. Hn. James(Aberdeen

  Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton

  Montagu, E S.

  Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs)

  Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.

  Mooney, J. J.

  Buchanan, Thomas Rbyurn

  Hall, Frederick

  Morley, Rt. Hon. John

  Burns, Rt. Hon. John

  Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis

  Morse, L. L.

  Burnyeat, W. J D.

  Hardie, J. Keir Merthyr Tydvil)

  Murnaghan, George

  Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles

  Hart-Davies, T.

  Murphy, John

  Byles, William Pollard

  Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)

  Murray, James

  Cairns, Thomas

  Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

  Myer, Horatio

  Cameron, Robert

  Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

  Napier, T. B.

  Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.

  Hazel, Dr. A. E.

  Nicholls, George

  Carr-Gomm, H. W.

  Hedges, A. Paget

  Nicholson, Charles N. (Donc'r

  Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight

  Helme, Norval Watson

  Nolan, Joseph

  Cawley, Frederick

  Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

  Norman, Henry

  Chance, Frederick William

  Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.)

  Norton, Capt. Cecil William

  Cheetham, John Frederick

  Higham, John Sharp

  Nussey, Thomas Willans

  Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.

  Hobart, Sir Robert

  Nuttall, Henry

  Churchill, Wisnton Spencer

  Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

  O'Brien, Kendal(Tipper'y Mid.)

  Clarke, C. Goddard

  Hogan, Michael

  O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

  Clough, W.

  Holden, E. Hopkinson

  O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.

  Clynes, J. R.

  Hooper, A. G.

  O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

  Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)

  Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

  O'Doherty, Philip

  Cobbold, Felix Thornley

  Hudson, Walter

  O'Grady, J.

  Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W.

  Hutton, Alfred Eddison

  O'Kelly, James(Roscommon, N.

  Cooper, G. J.

  Idris, T. H. W.

  O'Malley, William

  Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Gr'st'd

  Illingworth, Percy H.

  O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

  Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

  Jacoby, James Alfred

  Palmer, Sir Charles Mark

  Cotton, Sir H. J. S.

  Jenkins, J.

  Parker, James (Halifax)

  Cox, Harold

  Johnson, W. (Nuneaton)

  Paul, Herbert

  Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)

  Jones, Sir D. Brynmor(Swansea

  Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)

  Crossley, William J

  Jones, Leif (Appleby)

  Pearce, William (Limehouse)

  Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

  Jones, William(Carnarvonshire

  Pickersgill, Edward Hare

  Davies, M. Vaughan, (Cardigan

  Jowett, F. W.

  Pirie, Duncan V.

  Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

  Kearley, Hudson E.

  Pollard, Dr.

  Delany, William

  Kincaid-Smith, Captain

  Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)

  Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

  King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

  Raphael, Herbert H.

  Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.

  Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James

  Redmond, John E.(Waterford)

  Dilke, Hon. Sir Charles

  Laidlaw, Robert

  Redmond, William (Clare)

  Donelan, Captain A.

  Lambert, George

  Rendall, Athelstan

  Duckworth, James

  Lamont, Norman

  Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'th

  Duffy, William J.

  Langley, Batty

  Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n)

  Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

  Layland-Barratt, Francis

  Richardson, A.

  Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

  Loose, Sir Joseph F.(Accr'gton

  Rickett, J. Compton

  Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall

  Lehmann, R. C.

  Ridsdale, E. A.

  Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

  Lever, A. Levy (Essex Harwich

  Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)

  Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

  Lewis, John Herbert

  Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

  Edwards, Frank (Radnor)

  Lloyd-George Rt. Hon. David

  Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

  Elibank, Master of

  Lough, Thomas

  Robertson. Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee

  Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward

  Lundon, W.

  Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

  Erskine, David C

  Lupton, Arnold

  Robinson, S.

  Esmonde, Sir Thomas

  Lyell, Charles Henry

  Robson, Sir William Snowdon

  Everett, R. Lacey

  Lynch, H. B.

  Roe, Sir Thomas

  Faber, G. H. (Boston)

  Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs

  Rogers, F. E. Newman

  Fenwick, Charles

  Mackarness, Frederic C.

  Rose, Charles Day

  Ferens, T. R.

  Maclean, Donald

  Rowlands, J.

  Ferguson, R. C. Munro

  Macnamara, Dr Thomas J

  Runciman, Walter

  Field, William

  Macpherson, J. T.

  Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

  Flynn, James Christopher

  MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

  Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland)

  Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry

  MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)

  Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manch'st'r

  Freeman-Thomas, Freeman

  M'Crae, George

  Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne

  Fuller, John Michael F.

  M'Kenna Reginald

  Seely, Major J. B.

  Fullerton, Hugh

  M'Killop, W.

  Shackleton, David James

  Gardner, Col. Alan (Heref'd, S.

  M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

  Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.

  Gibb, James (Harrow)

  M'Micking, Major G.

  Shipman, Dr. John G.

  Gill, A. H.

  Maddison, Frederick

  Sinclair, Rt. Hon John

  Ginnell, L.

  Mallet, Chares E.

  Sloan, Thomas Henry

  Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John

  Manfield, Harry (Northants)

  Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

  906

  907

  Smyth, Thomas F.(Leitrim, S

  Verney, F. W.

  Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

  Snowden, P.

  Vivian, Henry

  Whittaker, Sir Thomas Palmer

  Soames, Arthur Wellesley

  Wadsworth, J.

  Williams, J. (Glamorgan)

  Soares, Ernest J.

  Waldron, Laurence Ambrose

  Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

  Spicer, Sir Albert

  Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

  Williamson, A.

  Stanger, H. Y.

  Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.

  Wills, Arthur Walters

  Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)

  Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

  Wilson, Hon. C.H. W.(Hull, W.

  Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

  Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent

  Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

  Strachey, Sir Edward

  Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton

  Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.

  Stuart, James (Sunderland)

  Wardle, George J.

  Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.

  Sullivan, Donal

  Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

  Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

  Summerbell, T.

  Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

  Wodehouse, Lord (Norfolk, Mid

  Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

  Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)

  Woodhouse, Sir J.T. (H'd'rsf'd

  Taylor, John W. (Durham)

  Watt, H. Anderson

  Young, Samuel

  Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

  Wedgwood, Josiah C.

  Yoxall, James Henry.

  Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)

  Weir, James Galloway

  Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)

  White, George (Norfolk)

  TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.

  Tomkinson, James

  White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

  Toulmin, George

  White, Luke (York, E. R.)

  Trevelyan, Charles Philips

  White, Patrick (Meath, North)

  VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGHsaid he wished to move the Amendment standing in his name—
  "In page 1, line 28, after the word 'withdrawn,' to insert the words 'by that person or with his authority in writing in a form to be prescribed by Order in Council made under this Act.'"
  THE CHAIRMANruled that the Amendment was out of order.
  MR. A. J. BALFOUR,on a point of order, said that he understood that the noble Lord's Amendment would have been perfectly in order if he had not added the words "or with his authority." It would be in order, he believed, if these words were deleted so that the Amendment read, "by that person in writing in the form prescribed by Order in Council under this Act."
  VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGHsaid he would move the Amendment in the form suggested by the Leader of the Opposition.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid that the noble Lord could not move the Amendment in that form now. He would suggest that the noble Lord should hand in another Amendment.
  *MR. FELL*MR. FELL(Great Yarmouth) moved an Amendment to provide that any technical or other mistake made by the clerk or printer might be rectified by a Judge of the High Court, on the application of the party affected. He thought that such an appeal was necessary in view of the decision come to on the previous
  908
  day that after the register had been "starred" the decision could not come before the revising banister or anyone who could rectify an error in the "starring." Human nature was inclined to error, and a printer or a town clerk or county council clerk, with whatever care he might take, might be guilty of making certain errors. He was only proposing that where a technical error had been committed, such as the dropping down of a "star," or the starring of another man of the same name, that technical error might be rectified in some way, on the application of the party affected, by a Judge of the High Court. If an elector took sufficient interest in his vote to take the trouble to go to the High Court to get a mistake of that kind rectified it would benefit him and put the thing straight. He hoped the Government would accept the Amendment.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 1, line 28, at end, to insert the words, 'Any technical or other mistake made by the clerk or printer may be rectified by a judge of the High Court on the application of the party affected.'"—(Mr. Fell.)
  Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid that this matter would be dealt with under his own clause, though possibly not in the actual words of the Amendment. He could assure the hon. Gentleman that the clause he had promised would cover the whole point.
  MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid he understood that the right hon. Gentleman had given an undertaking that there should be a cheaper Court of Appeal than the High Court.
  MR. HARCOURTsaid that it was his wish that they should get a cheaper and an easier Court of Appeal than the High Court.
  SIR WILLIAM BULLsaid that the objection might come before the revising barrister.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid that several important points in the Bill which made large alterations in the constitution of the country were being taken out of the purview of the Committee of the House of Commons.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid that the hon. Member was out of order, as the subject he was discussing did not arise on the Amendment before the Committee.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid that he desired to terminate his remarks by moving that progress be reported, and that leave be asked for the Committee to sit again. He did so on the ground that at least five separate important matters were to be brought up as Amendments on the Report stage by the Minister in charge of the Bill. If they were to be content with dealing with these important matters on the Report stage, it was quite clear that the House of Commons was to be deprived of the right of dealing with them in Committee; and if that practice was to be pursued the greater part of a Bill might be withdrawn from discussion in Committee. It was only reasonable, therefore, that the proceedings of the Committee should be adjourned by reporting progress in order that the Minister in charge of the Bill should have an opportunity of bringing up his Amendments in Committee. It was with that object in view and not with the idea of wasting time that he moved to report progress.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid that he had listened to what the hon. Gentleman had said, but he could not put his Motion.
  *MR. FELLsaid that after the explanation of the right hon. Gentleman he would ask leave to withdraw his Amendment.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
  MR. NIELD MR. NIELD(Middlesex, Ealing) moved an Amendment providing that a notice should be sent to every elector on the register whose residence is not in the constituency for which he is qualified, informing him that he is registered for other than the constituency in which he resides and must make a selection. They had heard of the very serious inconvenience to which working-men were put in moving from one constituency to another in the same district by having their names on two registers involving in case of ignorance the penalty of disfranchisement. The only object he had in submitting the Amendment was to prevent this undoubted hardship and provide that at any rate the penalty should not be incurred without some intimation being given to the unwary. Notice should be given to them that they were registered electors for other than the constituency in which they resided, so as to prevent their bringing down on their heads the serious penalties provided under the Act
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 1, line 28, at end, to insert the words, 'The clerk of the county council, town clerk, or registration officer shall, on or before the fifteenth day of August in each year, send to all electors on the register of voters whose residence is not in the constituency for which he is qualified as a voter, a notice informing him that he is a registered elector for other than the constituency in which he resides, and that he must make a selection on or before the first day of September in accordance with this Act.'"— (Mr. Nield.)
  Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid it was really impossible to put this great labour upon the town clerks and the clerks of county councils all over the country, and he could not contemplate imposing upon them what was proposed by the hon. Member's Amendment. The Amendment was not coherent even if it was desirable. It did not follow that all

  911
  plural voters had two or three residences, and it was quite possible that a man, even although he resided in a constitutency, had not a vote. A man, moreover, might not have been at his residence long enough to qualify him for a vote. The scheme embodied in the Amendment was not a coherent one which could be incorporated in the Bill.
  LORD R. CECILconsidered that this was a much more important Amendment than the right hon. Gentleman seemed to indicate. The right hon. Gentleman, had, however, justly said that it would throw a large amount of work upon the town clerks and the clerks of county councils, and he had pointed out that even this Amendment would not deal with all the difficulties which arose under the Bill. What he wanted to point out was that if these duties were not carried out by the clerks they would have to be carried out, in fact, not by the voters but by somebody else. Nobody imagined that the voters themselves would send in notices of selection, but everybody knew that it would become the duty of the registration agents of the various parties to call the attention of the voters to the provisions of this Act, and to request them to send a notice of selection and take the other means necessary to prevent their being disfranchised. Therefore this labour, which the right hon. Gentleman himself said would be tremendous if it were thrown upon the town clerks or the county council clerks, would, under the Bill, be thrown upon the agents of the various Parties. What would be the effect of that? The effect would, be enormously to increase the expense of registration. That would be one of the two things which this Bill would do. Those two things would be to disfranchise a large number of voters and enormously increase the cost of registration. [MINISTERIAL cries of "No, No."] He thought that that assertion was so indisputable that in his judgment hon. Members who expressed their dissent, did not mean it, but were simply expressing their belief in the infallibility of the Government more than anything else. No doubt the Bill was designed for the purpose
  912
  of striking off a large number of people from the register. The Liberal Party evidently thought that having got rid of one class of their opponents in the case of the Tory plural voter, they could by the same process get rid of another class of their opponents, viz., the Labour Members.
  *THE CHAIRMANsaid he really could not see what the argument of the noble Lord had to do with the Amendment.
  LORD R. CECILsaid he ventured, with the greatest respect, to urge that unless this Amendment were accepted the Bill would increase the cost of registration and disfranchise a large number of people. He repeated that unless this Amendment were accepted, the Government, having disposed of the Tory Party on the one hand, would dispose of the Labour Party on the other.
  *THE CHAIRMANpointed out that the noble Lord was saying that the object of this Bill was to get rid of such and such people and to disfranchise them. That was not a proper argument to use on this Amendment. The Committee was not now engaged in a Second Reading discussion on the intention of the measure. The noble Lord could raise the substance of his argument in another and proper way, but he was not pursuing it properly.
  LORD R. CECILsaid he was not aware that it was out of order to suggest what was the object of an Amendment. His argument was, however, complete, and he would not pursue the subject further.
  *MR. NIELDsubmitted that the observation that some persons would not have had a sufficiently long residential qualification had no application whatever. The point was that when the town clerk or the clerk of the county council saw that a residential address was given which was not in the constituency he should give a notice. Everyone knew that this would not be a difficult matter, as, to take his own constituency, which numbered 20,000 voters, there were not more than 2,000 out voters. The simplest way, therefore, was to take the address of the man

  913
  whose name was on the register and to send him a notice.
  MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid the argument of the right hon. Gentleman had impressed him to the effect that his hon. friend in his Amendment had not gone far enough. Having dealt with the cases which he had in his mind, a still larger number of cases would be left outside the protection of the Amendment. Let the Committee take a case mentioned the other day by the right hon. Baronet the Member for the Forest of Dean. There an examination was made of a particular register with regard to the number of labourers or workmen who had moved their homes from one constituency to another, and whose names ought to have been struck off, but had not been struck off the register for their former place of abode. If a voter had been left on by the overseers in his old place of residence he would be disqualified under this Bill. Under the Amendment he would get no notice that his name appeared upon the register of the place which he had left. If the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill had merely pointed out that the Amendment would not cover all the ground which his hon. friend desired to cover, he should have been entirely at one with, him, but the right hon. Gentleman went on to argue against even this restricted attempt to prevent voters who were qualified from being disfranchised under the provisions of the Bill. It was in his view essential before this Bill left the Committee that they should put into it some provisions to protect voters, to call attention to what their qualifications were, to give them an opportunity of seeing whether I hey had more than one vote, and to call their attention to the absolutely new duty which Parliament imposed upon them of selecting between their different qualifications before the 5th day of September, if they were to record a vote at any time during the following year. He had himself placed an Amendment upon the Paper in the form of a new clause with a view of providing that some such notice should be given. The right hon. Gentleman seemed to think that it was a sufficient answer to his hon. friend to say that any
  914
  such proposal would entail a great deal of work upon the town clerks, and the clerks of the county councils, but under the Bill somebody else was going to have great cause to complain of the labour entailed. He hoped he should not make an enemy of every town clerk in the country by saying that he would rather they had the trouble than the voter. If the right hon. Gentleman would make an inquiry as to the number of voters who made application for the municipal franchise he would find that it was very small indeed, and in order to get their declarations these plural voters would have to be canvassed and circularised by the agents of the different Parties unless they were to be deprived of the right to vote. There were a great number of people in this country whose politics were not known and who were not permanently attached to one political Party or the other. Who was going to look after their votes when they were not get-at-able? He ventured to say again that before the Bill left Committee it was essential that some means should be devised of giving notice to such people.
  SIR WILLIAM BULLdid not think the right hon. Gentleman opposite really understood what the mover of the Amendment meant when he alluded to a registered voter whose residence was not in the constituency. When the revising barrister had the list before him he looked down the two columns and at once saw the description of the qualifying property in one and the place of residence in the other, and his case was that where it was obvious that there was a difference between the two places notice should be given to the voter. In Liverpool only one voter last year came up and deliberately selected the place at which he would vote. The others left it in the hands of the Party agents.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
  *MR. NIELDmoved to insert the following proviso at the end of the clause:—"Provided always chat the clerk shall give public notice before the registers are finally printed that they are open for

  915
  inspection at his office between the hours of ten of the clock in the forenoon and four of the clock in the afternoon, and any person shall be at liberty to attend at such office for the purpose of pointing out any mistake made in regard to any selection, and the said clerk shall correct any such mistake which is proved to have been made." He pointed out that it threw no expense upon anyone. What he suggested was that after the list had been made up there should be a limited time given in which persons affected might make corrections in it. That would clear the ground considerably for the Amendments which he understood were to be moved by the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill. It would obviate a great deal of expense also by giving the persons affected the opportunity to correct obvious inaccuracies in the list during the period allowed by public advertisement for that purpose and avoid the necessity for an application to the High Court or even the County Court if it was proposed to give jurisdiction to that tribunal—for even County Court proceedings involved expense. After this opportunity had been given and when the lists were finally closed the inaccuracy must be a very serious one for anyone to incur the expense of an application to the Court. He begged to move.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 1, line 28, after the words last inserted, to insert the words 'Provided always that the clerk shall give public notice before the registers are finally printed that they are open for inspection at his office between the hours of ten of the clock in the forenoon and four of the clock in the afternoon, and any person shall be at liberty to attend at such; office for the purpose of pointing out any mistake made in regard to any selection, and the said clerk shall correct any such mistake which is proved to have been made.'"—(Mr. Nield.)
  Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid he could not accept this Amendment. The list could not be open to inspection before it was printed, because the margin of time at the disposal of the clerk was too narrow to permit of it. The 20th would be the last day for printing. But if the list was open to inspection after it was printed, the voter would be able
  916
  to see between then and the time it became current on the 1st of January and would be able to get redress by the method he (Mr. Harcourt) had suggested.
  *MR. NIELDpointed out that he provided by his Amendment for an inspection between the time when the list was in proof and the time it was finally printed.
  MR. HARCOURTsaid he feared it would be impossible to depart from the date fixed under the Bill without some; very special and pressing reason for the departure. Notice might be given up to the 20th, but further corrections could not be made after that date except by the order of the Court. He was, however, anxious to make that as easy as possible.
  MR. FORSTERpointed out that some parts of the register were printed long before the 20th. As soon as one part of the register was passed by the revising barrister it was set up in type and proofs were struck, and he could not see any reason why the suggestion of his hon. friend could not be accepted in order that obvious mistakes might be corrected and the list made fairly accurate.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDregretted the right hon. Gentleman could not see his way to accept the Amendment. There were provisions in all the Acts affecting representation that these lists should be open to inspection, and seeing that the lists were in many cases printed weeks before the time suggested, and having regard to the fact that this inspection had always been allowed, he could not see why it should not be given now. At a later date, the 5th of September, the proper officer would revise the particular notice. All that was asked by the Amendment was that some further opportunity, a few days, should be given to the public to see that the register, which ought to be marked in a certain way, was, in fact, so marked.
  MR. HARCOURTsaid he had not the slightest intention of further limiting the time during which the list was open to the inspection of the voter. He would take care that in the Order in Council the

  917
  time now available for inspection by a voter should not be diminished in any way.
  SIR E. CARSONobserved that it they did not allow the clerk to correct an obvious mistake they put a lawsuit upon the unfortunate voter, who would have to make an application in what the right hon. Gentleman was pleased to call some neighbouring Court, whereas all he would have to do if he were allowed to do what the Amendment suggested would be to point out to the clerk that he had sent in a notice, and to ask why his name was not on the list. It would be a very poor recompense to the voter if, after the trouble he had taken to investigate the register, he was told he must take legal proceedings before a Court to have the matter put right. Further, as he understood, the lists were signed at the end of the registration by the revising barrister. If these alterations were to hang on they would have to be put upon the lists after the revising barrister had signed them. It seemed to him to be a very bad practice and a very bad system for lists to be altered after they were signed. What was to happen,
  supposing the voter was successful? Was he then to be marked on the list? Suppose there were several mistakes, was the list to be reprinted, or what was to happen? Surely before the date fixed by Parliament the list should become complete, and everything should be done to make the list perfect, so that those who were qualified might be able to see their names on the register. The whole of the difficulty arose from the simple fact that those who framed the Bill, instead of leaving, as Parliament had done hitherto under the Franchise Acts, to the revising barrister the duty for which he was paid, of settling these lists, had set up an entirely now tribunal. Anything more cumbrous than this proceeding it was impossible to imagine—the clerk, revising barrister, the County Court, the High Court, and no doubt the voter would end in the Coroner's Court. He certainly thought that the Amendment of his hon. friend was a good one and should be accepted.
  Question put.
  The Committee divided:—Ayes, 85; Noes, 329. (Division List No. 344.)

  AYES.

  Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F.

  Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon

  Morpeth, Viscount

  Anstruther-Gray, Major

  Doughty, Sir George

  Muntz, Sir Philip A.

  Ashley, W. W.

  Faber, George Denison (York)

  Parkes, Ebenezer

  Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(City Lond.

  Fell, Arthur

  Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington

  Banbury, Sir Frederick George

  Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

  Percy, Earl

  Banner, John S. Harmood-

  Forster, Henry William

  Powell, Sir Francis Sharp

  Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)

  Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

  Handles, Sir John Scurrah

  Barrie, Hn. T. (Londonderry, N.)

  Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

  Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)

  Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

  Gordon, Sir W. Evans-(T'r Ham

  Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

  Beckett, Hon. Gervase

  Hamilton, Marquess of

  Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)

  Bowles, G. Stewart

  Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'd

  Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

  Bridgeman, W. Clive

  Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

  Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

  Bull, Sir William James

  Hay, Hon. Claude George.

  Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)

  Burdett-Coutts, W.

  Heaton, John Henniker

  Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

  Butcher, Samuel Henry

  Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

  Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh

  Carlile, E. Hildred

  Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H.

  Stone, Sir Benjamin

  Carson, Kt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

  Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W.

  Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

  Castlereagh, Viscount

  Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

  Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G.(Oxf'd Univ

  Cave, George

  Lane-Fox, G. R.

  Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark

  Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C. W.

  Liddell, Henry

  Thornton, Percy M.

  Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

  Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.

  Valentia, Viscount

  Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Wor.

  Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesh'm

  Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard

  Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

  Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.)

  Warde, Col. C. E (Kent, Mid.)

  Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm'gh'm

  Lowe, Sir Francis William

  Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

  Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

  Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

  Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

  Courthope G. Loyd

  Magnus, Sir Philip

  Younger, George

  Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.

  Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

  Craig, Captain James (Down, E.

  Mildmay, Francis Bingham

  Craik, Sir Henry

  TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Nield and Mr. Marks.

  Dalrymple, Viscount

  NOES.

  Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.

  Delany, William

  Jacoby, James Alfred

  Acland, Francis Dyke

  Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

  Jenkins, J.

  Ainsworth, John Stirling

  Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.

  Johnson, W. (Nuneaton)

  Alden, Percy

  Donelan, Captain A.

  Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea)

  Ambrose, Robert

  Duckworth, James

  Jones, Leif (Appleby)

  Ashton, Thomas Gair

  Duffy, William J.

  Jones, William (Carnarvonshire)

  Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

  Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness

  Jowett, F. W.

  Astbury, John Meir

  Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

  Joyce, Michael

  Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

  Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

  Kearley, Hudson E.

  Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight

  Dunne Major Emartin (Walsall)

  Kekewich, Sir George

  Barker, John

  Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

  Kincaid-Smith, Captain

  Barlow, John Emmott (S'm'rset)

  Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

  Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James

  Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

  Edwards, Frank (Radnor)

  Laidlaw, Robert

  Barnard, E. B.

  Elibank, Master of

  Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

  Barran, Rowland Hirst

  Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward

  Lambert, George

  Beale, W. P.

  Erskine, David C.

  Lamont, Norman

  Beaumont, Hn. W. C. B. (Hex'm)

  Esmonde, Sir Thomas

  Langley, Batty

  Beck, A. Cecil

  Everett, R. Lacey

  Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

  Bellairs, Carlyon

  Faber, G. H. (Boston)

  Layland-Barratt, Francis

  Belloc, Hilaire Joseph Peter R.

  Fenwick, Charles

  Leese, Sir Josep F. (Accrington)

  Benn, W.(T'w'rH'ml'ts,S. Geo.)

  Ferens, T. R.

  Lehmann, R. C.

  Bertram, Julius

  Ferguson, R. C. Munro

  Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich)

  Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford)

  Field, William

  Lewis, John Herbert

  Billson, Alfred

  Fiennes, Hon. Eustace

  Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David

  Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine

  Flynn, James Christopher

  Lough, Thomas

  Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire)

  Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry

  Lundon, W.

  Boland, John

  Freeman-Thomas, Freeman

  Lyell, Charles Henry

  Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey)

  Fuller, John Michael F.

  Lynch, H. B.

  Bowerman, C. W.

  Fullerton, Hugh

  Macdonald, J. M.(Falkirk B'ghs.

  Brace, William

  Gardner, Col. Alan (Hereford, S.)

  Mackarness, Frederic C.

  Bramsdon, T. A.

  Gibb, James (Harrow)

  Maclean, Donald

  Brigg, John

  Gill, A. H.

  Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.

  Bright, J. A.

  Ginnell, L.

  MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

  Brocklehurst, W. B.

  Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John

  MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)

  Brooke, Stopford

  Glover, Thomas

  M'Crae, George

  Brunner, J. F L. (Lancs., Leigh)

  Goddard, Daniel Ford

  M'Kean, John

  Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T.(Chesh.

  Grant, Corrie

  M'Kenna, Reginald

  Bryce, Rt. Hn. James Aberdeen

  Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

  M'Killop, W.

  Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs)

  Greenwood, Hamar (York)

  M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

  Burke, E. Haviland-

  Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward

  M'Micking, Major G.

  Burns, Rt. Hon. John

  Griffith, Ellis J.

  Maddison, Fredrick

  Burnyeat, W. J. D.

  Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

  Mallet, Charles E.

  Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles

  Gulland, John W.

  Manfield, Harry (Northants)

  Byles, William Pollard

  Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton

  Mansfield. H. Rendall (Lincoln

  Cairns, Thomas

  Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.

  Marnham, F. J.

  Cameron, Robert

  Hall, Frederick

  Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)

  Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.

  Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis

  Massie, J.

  Carr-Gomm, H W

  Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)

  Masterman, C. F. G.

  Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight

  Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Wore'r)

  Meagher, Michael

  Cawley, Frederick

  Hart-Davies T.

  Menzies, Walter

  Chance, Frederick William

  Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)

  Micklem, Nathaniel

  Cheetham, John Frederick

  Harwood, George

  Molteno, Perey Alport

  Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.

  Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

  Money, L. G. Chiozza

  Churchill, Winston Spencer

  Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

  Montagu, E. S.

  Clough, W,

  Hazel, Dr. A. E.

  Mooney, J. J.

  Clynes, J. R.

  Hedges, A. Paget

  Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen

  Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)

  Helme, Norval Watson

  Morley, Rt. Hon. John

  Cobbold, Felix Thornley

  Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

  Morrell, Philip

  Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W.

  Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.)

  Morse, L. L.

  Cooper, G. J.

  Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

  Murnaghnn, George

  Corbett, C. H (Sussex, E. Grinst'd

  Higham, John Sharp

  Murphy, John

  Cotton, Sir H. J. S.

  Hobart, Sir Robert

  Murray, James

  Cox, Harold

  Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

  Myer, Horatio

  Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)

  Hodge, John

  Napier, T. B.

  Crossley, William J.

  Hogan, Michael

  Newnes, Sir George (Swansea)

  Dalmeny, Lord

  Hooper, A. G.

  Nicholls, George

  Dalziel, James Henry

  Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

  Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r

  Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

  Hudson, Walter

  Nolan, Joseph

  Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan)

  Hutton, Alfred Eddison

  Norman, Henry

  Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

  Idris, T. H. W.

  Norton, Capt. Cecil William

  Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

  Illingworth, Percy H.

  Nussey, Thomas Willans

  920

  921

  Nuttall, Harry

  Robson Sir William Snowdon

  Vivian, Henry

  O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid

  Rogers, F E. Newman

  Wadsworth, J.

  O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

  Rose, Charles Day

  Waldron, Laurence Ambrose

  O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.)

  Rowlands, J.

  Walker, D. De R. (Leicester)

  O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

  Runciman, Walter

  Walters, John Tudor

  O'Doherty, Philip

  Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

  Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)

  O'Grady, J.

  Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

  Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

  O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N

  Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

  Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent

  O'Malley, William

  Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester)

  Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton

  O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

  Scott, A. H. (Ashtonunder Lyne)

  Wardle, George J.

  Palmer, Sir Charles Mark

  Seely, Major J. B.

  Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

  Parker, James (Halifax)

  Shackleton, David James

  Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

  Paul, Herbert

  Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.

  Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney

  Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)

  Shipman, Dr. John G.

  Watt, H. Anderson

  Pearce, William (Limehouse)

  Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

  Wedgwood, Josiah C.

  Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton)

  Sloan, Thomas Henry

  Weir, James Galloway

  Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

  Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

  White, George (Norfolk)

  Pickersgill, Edward Hare

  Smyth, Thos. F. (Leitrim, S.)

  White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

  Pirie, Duncan V.

  Snowden, P.

  White, Luke (York, E. R.)

  Pollard, D.

  Soames, Arthur Wellesley

  White, Patrick (Meath, North)

  Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)

  Soares, Ernest J.

  Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

  Price, Robert John(Norfolk, E.)

  Spicer, Sir Albert

  Whittaker, Sir Thomas Palmer

  Raphael, Herbert H.

  Stanger, H. Y.

  Williams, J. (Glamorgan)

  Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

  Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)

  Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n)

  Redmond, John E. (Waterford)

  Steadman, W. C.

  Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

  Redmond, William (Clare)

  Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

  Wills, Arthur Walters

  Rees, J. D.

  Strachey, Sir Edward

  Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull, W.

  Rendall, Athelstan

  Stuart, James (Sunderland)

  Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.

  Renton, Major Leslie

  Sullivan, Donal

  Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.)

  Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'th

  Summerbell, T.

  Wilson, J. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

  Rchards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n

  Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

  Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

  Richardson, A.

  Taylor, John W. (Durham)

  Winfrey, R.

  Rickett, J. Compton

  Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

  Wodehouse, Lord(Norfolk, Mid)

  Ridsdale, E. A.

  Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)

  Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (H'd'rsf'd)

  Roberts Charles H. (Lincoln)

  Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)

  Young, Samuel

  Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

  Thorne, William

  Yoxall, James Henry

  Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

  Tomkinson, James

  Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee

  Toulmin, George

  TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.

  Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

  Trevelyan, Charles Philips

  Robinson, S.

  Verney, F. W.

  Question, "That those words be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

  VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGH VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGH moved to add at the end of sub-section (2) the words—
  "The notice of selection may be withdrawn by the voter himself, or by an agent authorised by him in writing, in a form to be prescribed by Order in Council under this Act."
  These words he considered to be absolutely necessary. At the present moment there was no provision whatever in the Bill as to who might withdraw the notice of selection. In this connection there was a certain amount of ambiguity—a characteristic which had been noticed in other parts of the Bill. As the Bill stood it was possible for a notice to be sent without the authority of the voter, and it was obvious that if the town clerk acted bona fide on a notice of withdrawal the voter would necessarily be disfranchised. There were many persons who perhaps had a high moral character at other times, but at election times were apt to have their sense of morality dimmed, and consequently he felt that a notice of
  922
  withdrawal might be sent in by an unscrupulous agent or some person with a view of not allowing a voter to exercise his right to vote. It was a point that had not been previously raised, and he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would give an assurance that it should be considered or that a penalty should be imposed in the case of anyone sending in a notice of withdrawal without the consent of the voter himself. He knew there were objections entertained by the right hon. Gentleman to a prescribed form, but he did not share those objections, for he felt sure that the electors would soon accustom themselves to the rule. The right hon. Gentleman had made a point at the beginning of the section that the notice of selection should be signed by the voter, so that he was entirely at a loss to understand why similar words had not been inserted in respect of the notice of withdrawal. He would not like to suggest that the omission was due to

  923
  careless drafting, although up to the present it had been a very obvious feature of the provisions of the Bill. In moving this Amendment he was endeavouring to assist in the simplification of the working of the Bill, for while he hoped it would never come into force, if it did pass he hoped it would be in a form that would be simple and free from difficulties.
  Amendment proposed—
  "On page 1, line 28, to add the words, 'The notice of sleection may be withdrawn by the voter himself or by an agent authorised by him in writing in a form preseribed by Order in Council made under this Act.'"—(Viscount Castlereagh.)
  Question proposed, "That those words be there added."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid he could not accept this Amendment. All through he had been very anxious to save the plural voter trouble, and now the noble Lord wished to make the withdrawal only in a prescribed form. They agreed that the form of notice of selection should be optional in the Order in Council. There would equally be an optional form of withdrawal. It would be a hardship nor, to be able to withdraw a notice of selection by an ordinary letter just as the voter was able to make it by an ordinary letter. Probably the noble Lord had in mind some of those unscrupulous men of whom he seemed to have had experience at election times. Any action of the kind which had been referred to would be forgery and punishable as such. He could not possibly accept the Amendment. He would like to take this opportunity of making an appeal to the Committee. This was the fifth day, and as far as he could, without sacrificing the principle of the measure, he had endeavoured to meet every reasonable request that had been made by the Opposition. He had promised to put in a number of provisions which he did not, believe were necessary, and the only Amendments he had refused were those which he thought would be mischievous. He had tried to meet the wishes of hon. Members opposite in every possible way, and he hoped they would now allow the discussion on this clause to proceed more quickly.
  SIR E. CARSONsaid the statement which they had just listened to showed that the right hon. Gentleman opposite was capable of exhibiting in this House a good deal of effrontery. [Cries of "Sneak."]
  MR. J. WARD: You are an expert on the subject.
  SIR E. CARSONsaid anybody who had listened to the discussion must have concluded that a more ill-considered measure from any point of view had never come before the House of Commons. Early in the discussions the right hon. Baronet the Member for the Forest of Dean stated that the Bill had been brought in in an absolutely unworkable form. After all the efforts made by the Opposition to knock the Bill into some sort of workable shape the right hon. Gentleman came forward and made an appeal to them as if there had been obstruction in connection with the measure. There never was a case in which there was less ground for making such a charge. The present Amendment merely asked that the person who made the selection should be protected by some provision which would prevent a fraud upon him after he had made his selection, and yet such a proposal had been refused by the right hon. Gentleman.
  *MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONsaid he could not support the Amendment in its present form, but he thought a voter ought to be able to withdraw his selection by a letter or a form. A great deal had been put in the Bill with regard to the notice of selection, but from first to last in their discussions they had not heard a word about the form which the notice of withdrawal was going to take. Did the right hon. Gentleman propose that the withdrawal should be by a form or that it should be optional and that the voter would be entitled to write a letter? If so, did he propose that either the form or the letter should be signed by the voter himself? Did he propose to take the necessary steps to see that this provision would be actually put into practice and not disregarded, as the Committee had been told the existing statute was

  925
  disregarded? If the right hon. Gentleman proposed to make the withdrawal on all tours with the notice of selection, why did he not say so in the Bill? He should like to know clearly, was the notice of withdrawal to be kept and preserved by the clerk in the same way as the notice of selection? Where there were a number of divisions in one borough, could a man send a notice of withdrawal and selection on the same piece of paper?
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid two notices were mentioned, namely, the notice of selection and the notice of withdrawal. In his opinion the notice of withdrawal was just as important as the notice of selection, because the giving of the notice of withdrawal might be absolutely essential to secure a man's right to vote in some other constituency. The criticism which had been directed to the wording of the Bill and the arguments used in support of this Amendment showed conclusively that all the safeguards necessary to protect the notice of selection ought to be repeated and have the same application to the notice of withdrawal.
  MR. LANE-FOXhoped the right hon. Gentleman would give a further answer upon this question. There was a great deal to be said for the argument that a withdrawal should only be made by the person concerned or with his authority in writing. The Amendment would not impair the principle of the Bill at all. In fact, it would be a distinct improvement. The right hon. Gentleman said his desire was to save the plural voter trouble, and he would be doing this if he made fraud impossible.
  MR. HARCOURTsaid he agreed that the matter of selection and withdrawal should be on the same footing. He wished to keep them exactly on all fours, and if there were any words necessary to provide that the withdrawal should be made in writing by the voter himself he would see that they were introduced. They had already decided that the selection should be made by the voter and signed by him, and the withdrawal must be on the same basis. He would inquire
  926
  whether any words were necessary to secure this object.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDasked when they might expect to see the subsection carrying out what the right hon. Gentleman had just promised.
  MR. HARCOURT: On the Report stage.
  VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGHsaid he was prepared to accept the right hon. Gentleman's assurance that on the Report stage he would put in words which would carry out the object he had in view. Under those circumstances he asked leave to withdraw his Amendment.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
  *MR. FELL*MR. FELL moved to leave out subsection (3). He held that the subsection was unnecessary, and ought to be omitted. If a man voted twice at any given election the sub-section had nothing whatever to do with that point. The first part of the section provided that no one should vote twice or ask for a ballot or voting-paper for the purpose of so voting, and any person who contravened that section would incur heavy penalties, It was proposed by this sub-section that heavy penalties should be incurred if a man who made an error in regard to the register of the constituency in which he voted, but that had nothing to do with his voting twice or attempting to vote twice. When they examined sub-section (3) in detail they saw that for trivial offences a man was to be deemed guilty of an illegal practice within the meaning of the Corrupt and Illegal Practice Act, 1883. He believed the Committee would agree that this sub-section in its entirety had better be left out. Under it it was proposed to make it an illegal practice if any person—
  "sends or causes to be sent a notice of his election of a voting constituency to the clerk of the county council or town clerk of more than one constituency to take effect in the same year."
  Chat did not give him two votes, and what they wanted to stop was plural noting. What would happen would be hat the votes would be starred in two

  927
  constituencies instead of one, but under this sub-section if a man by accident, or in any other way, sent notices of selection to the clerks of two counties he would be guilty of an illegal practice. The second part of the sub-section made it an offence if any person—
  "sends or causes to be sent a notice of his selection of a voting constituency without withdrawing any notice which is in operation in any other constituency."
  The penalty for that offence would be a fine of £100 and disfranchisement for five years. Sub-sections (1) and (2) provided that a person registered as a Parliamentary elector in more than one constituency should vote only in one, and sub-section (3) merely provided machinery for keeping the register in a more correct condition than it would otherwise be. It also created two new crimes which had never before been dreamt of in this country, and provided for punishing guilty persons by heavy penalties. He hoped the Committee would agree that it was not necessary to add these two new crimes to the calendar.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2, line 1, to leave out sub-section (3)."—(Mr. Fell.)
  Question proposed, "That the words 'if any person' stand part of the clause."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid it had been argued that this sub-section dealt with what would be a trivial offence, but if a man by not withdrawing a selection or sending more than one selection was marked as a, voter in several constituencies contrary to the intention of the Act it was a serious offence, because he would be able to evade the law much more easily. The moment a man got this distinguishing mark against his name he put all personation agents and others off the scent. Selection of a constituency was an essential part of the Bill, and if they were to have selection it was quite clear that they must have penalties to enforce the two things dealt with by sub-section (3).
  SIR F. BANBURYsaid there was some force in what the
  928
  right hon. Gentleman said, but on the other hand he wished to point out that the penalties proposed to be enforced for what might only be a lapse of memory or want of knowledge were extremely heavy and hard.
  MR. HARCOURTsaid the whole question was governed by the words—
  "Knowingly and with intent to evade the provisions of this Act."
  SIR F. BANBURYsaid if the right hon. Gentleman could assure him that sub-section (3) was governed by those words he would not press his objection. But if those words governed the subsection they should come in after and not before it.
  MR. HARCOURTthought the object desired could be attained by accepting the Amendment of the hon. Member for Liverpool.
  SIR F. BANBURYsaid he understood the right hon. Gentleman was willing to put in words, and therefore he would not continue to press his point.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid if the right hon. Gentleman would accept the words of a later Amendment standing in his name it seemed to him that the necessities of the case would be met. It was clear that the right hon. Gentleman only wanted the penalties inflicted where the offence had been committed knowingly and with intent to evade the provisions of the Act. The punishment which could be given for an illegal Act was only £100, not £200, as had been stated, and it was not possible to inflict imprisonment at all. Then the loss of civil rights, instead of being for seven years, which it would be under the Corrupt Practices Act, was only for five years; and that only applied to the constituency in which the illegal practice took place. It seemed to him, although he objected to this Bill altogether and to these notices of selection, that this particular sub-section was essential to the framework of the Bill.
  MR. FELLsaid that after what had been said by the Minister in charge of

  929
  the Bill he would ask leave to withdraw his Amendment.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2, line 1, after the word 'person,' to insert the words, 'knowingly and with intent to evade the provisions of this Act.' "—(Mr. William Rutherford.)
  VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGHsaid that the Committee had the assurance of the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill that he would on Report consider the subject matter of the next Amendment standing in his name, and he hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would inflict a severe penalty on a person who, without the sanction of the elector, sent or caused to be sent a notice of withdrawal of selection.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2, line 9, to insert the words, '(c) Sends or causes to be sent a notice of withdrawal of selection without the authority of the person who has the right to select.'"—(Viscount Castlereagh.)
  Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid that he could not undertake to add another penalty for an offence which was already covered at common law. He thought that, a special enactment, such as was suggested by the noble Lord, would produce the impression that the common law could not be applied.
  VISCOUNT CASTLEREAGHsaid that the question at issue was whether any person who sent in a notice of withdrawal of selection without the authority of the person who had the right to select should not be subjected to a penalty.
  MR. HARCOURTsaid that if any person withdrew a notice of selection without the authority of the voter who had the right to select, he would be guilty of a forgery.
  MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid that they had had an interesting debate the other day in which the right hon. Member for Forest of Dean had described this as one of the ordinary parts of our electoral machinery. The right hon. Gentleman said that it had been deliberately and expressly laid down that persons were to sign the application themselves and that if their signature were placed on the notice by somebody else that was a forgery. The right hon. Gentleman had even put the case where the signature was not the imitated handwriting of the person supposed to be making the application. He did not think that that would amount to forgery at common law.
  MR. HARCOURTsaid that hon. Members were dealing with rather different eases. In one case they were dealing with a man who was acting for the advantage of a voter, and in the other case they were dealing with a man who was acting to the injury of the voter. At common law it was essential in order to constitute an offence that the man should be trying to inflict an injury on the person whose name lie was forging.
  LORD R. CECILasked if the right hon. Gentleman was sure of that? He thought it was only where pecuniary damage had been done by the forger.
  MR. HARCOURTsaid it was difficult for a layman to give a decided opinion; but he had taken the advice of a very high legal authority, and he would refer the noble Lord to an authority which he would appreciate, although it was not binding on the Courts. In Stephens' Digest, an offence was denned as forgery where any document was altered by which any other person might be injured. That was an expression of opinion which had been generally acted upon at common law.
  Question, put and negatived.
  *MR. FELL*MR. FELL moved an Amendment to sub-section (3) by which the penalty for an offence under the sub-section should be simply a fine of 40s. instead of five years deprivation of civil rights. The only benefit which a man could got by such a malpractice would be the power

  931
  to vote in the constituency which he thought would do his friends most good. It was not an attempt to exercise his vote twice at an election. That was not a very serious offence.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2, line 9, to leave out from the word 'be' to end of sub-section, and to insert the words, 'liable to a fine not exceeding forty shillings.'"—(Mr. Fell.)
  Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out, to the word 'an,' in line 9, stand part of the clause."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid the penalty which the hon. Member proposed would be a ridiculous one and he really could not accept it. This Bill dealt with a large property-owning class, and therefore to inflict a fine of 40s. would be no more a deterrent than it was in the case of a motor driver. Moreover, it certainly was not a fine which should be inflicted in a case of this kind.
  Question put.
  The Committee divided:—Ayes, 358; Noes, 89. (Division List No. 345.)

  AYES.

  Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.)

  Cairns, Thomas

  Everett, R. Lacey

  Abraham, William (Rhondda)

  Cameron, Robert

  Faber, G. H. (Boston)

  Acland, Francis Dyke

  Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.

  Fenwick, Charles

  Ainsworth, John Stirling

  Carr-Gomm, H. W.

  Ferens, T. R.

  Alden, Percy

  Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight

  Ferguson, R. C. Munro

  Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

  Cawley, Frederick

  Field, William

  Ambrose, Robert

  Chance, Frederick William

  Flynn, James Christopher

  Ashton, Thomas Gair

  Cheetham, John Frederick

  Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry

  Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

  Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.

  Freeman-Thomas, Freeman

  Astbury, John Meir

  Churchill, Winston Spencer

  Fuller, John Michael F.

  Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

  Clarke, C. Goddard

  Fullerton, Hugh

  Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

  Clough, W.

  Gardner, Col. Alan (Hereford, S

  Barker, John

  Clynes, J. R.

  Gibb, James (Harrow)

  Barlow, John Emmott (Somerset

  Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)

  Gill, A. H.

  Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

  Cobbold, Felix Thornley

  Ginnell, L.

  Barnard, E. B.

  Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W

  Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John

  Barnes, G. N.

  Cooper, G. J.

  Glover, Thomas

  Barran, Rowland Hirst

  Corbett, C. H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd

  Goddard, Daniel Ford

  Beale, W. P.

  Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

  Gooch, George Peabody

  Beauchamp, E.

  Cotton, Sir H. J. S.

  Grant, Corrie

  Beaumont, Hn. W.C. B. (Hexham

  Cox, Harold

  Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

  Beck, A. Cecil

  Cremer, William Randal

  Greenwood, Hamar (York)

  Bellairs, Carlyon

  Crooks, William

  Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward

  Bonn, W. (Tw'r Hamlets, S. Geo.

  Crosfield, A. H.

  Griffith, Ellis J.

  Bertram, Julius

  Crossley, William J.

  Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

  Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford)

  Dalmeny, Lord

  Gulland, John W.

  Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)

  Dalziel, James Henry

  Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton

  Billson, Alfred

  Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

  Hall, Frederick

  Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine

  Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan

  Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis

  Black Arthur W. (Bedfordshire

  Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

  Hardie, J. Keir (Mtrthyr Tydvil)

  Boland, John

  Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.

  Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

  Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E.

  Delany, William

  Hart-Davies, T.

  Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey)

  Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S)

  Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)

  Howennan, C. W.

  Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.)

  Harwood, George

  Brace, William

  Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.

  Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

  Bramsdon, T. A.

  Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

  Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

  Brigg, John

  Donelan, Captain A.

  Haworth, Arthur A.

  Bright, J. A.

  Duckworth, James

  Hazel, Dr. A. E.

  Brocklehurst, W. B.

  Dutfy, William J.

  Hedges, A. Paget

  Brodie, H. C.

  Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness

  Helme, Norval Watson

  Brooke, Stopford

  Duncan, J. H. (York. Otley)

  Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

  Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs, Leigh.)

  Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

  Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.)

  Brunner, R. Hn. Sir J.T. (Chesh

  Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall

  Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

  Bryce, Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen

  Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

  Higham, John Sharp

  Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs)

  Edwards, Enoch (Hanky)

  Hobart, Sir Robert

  Burke, E. Haviland-

  Elibank, Master of

  Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

  Burns, Rt. Hon. John

  Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward

  Hodge, John

  Burnyeat, W. J. D.

  Erskine, David C.

  Hogan, Michael

  Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas.

  Esmonde, Sir Thomas

  Helden, E. Hopkinson

  Byles, William Pollard

  Eve, Harry Trelawney

  Holland, Sir William Henry

  Hooper, A. G.

  Murnaghan, George

  Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

  Horridge, Thomas Gardne

  Murphy, John

  Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)

  Hudson, Walter

  Murray James

  Snowden, P.

  Hutton, Alfred Edddison

  Myer, Horatio

  Soames, Arthur Wellesley

  Idris, T. H. W.

  Napier, T. B.

  Soares, Ernest J.

  Illingworth, Percy H.

  Newnes, Sir George (Swansea)

  Spicer, Sir Albert

  Jacoby, James Alfred

  Nicholls, George

  Stanger, H. Y.

  Jenkins, J.

  Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doneast'r

  Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulp (Chesh.)

  Johnson, W. (Nuneaton)

  Nolan, Joseph

  Steadman, W. C.

  Jones, Sir D. Brynmor) Swansea

  Norman, Henry

  Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

  Jones, Leif (Appleby)

  Norton, Capt. Cecil William

  Strachey, Sir Edward

  Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire

  Nussey, Thomas Willans

  Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

  Jowett, F. W.

  Nuttall, Harry

  Stuart, James (Sunderland)

  Joyce, Michael

  O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid

  Sullivan, Donal

  Kearley, Hudson, E.

  O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

  Summerbell, T.

  Kekewich, Sir George

  O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.

  Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

  Kincaid-Smith Captain

  O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

  Taylor, John W. (Durham)

  King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

  O'Doherty, Philip

  Taylor, Theodore. C. (Radcliffe)

  Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James

  O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)

  Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)

  Laidlaw, Robert

  O'Grady, J.

  Thomas, Abel (Carmorghen, E.

  Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster

  O'Malley, William

  Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.

  Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

  O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

  Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr

  Lambert, George

  Palmor, Sir Charles Mark

  Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset E.

  Lamont, Norman

  Parker, James (Halifax)

  Thorne, William

  Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

  Paul, Herbert

  Tomkinson, James

  Layland-Barratt, Francis

  Pearce, Robert (Stalls, Leek)

  Torrance, Sir A. M.

  Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington)

  Pearce, William (Limehouse)

  Toulmin, George

  Lehmann, R. C.

  Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton)

  Trevelyan, Charles Philips

  Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich

  Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

  Verney, F. W.

  Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral

  Pickersgill, Edward Hare

  Vivian, Henry

  Levy, Maurice

  Pirie, Duncan V.

  Wadsworth, J.

  Lewis, John Herbert

  Pollard, Dr.

  Waldron, Laurence Ambrose

  Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David

  Price, C. E (Edinb'gh, Central

  Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

  Lough, Thomas

  Price, Robt. John (Norfolk, E.)

  Wallace, Robert

  Lundon, W.

  Raphael, Herbert H.

  Walsh, Stephen

  Lyell, Charles Henry

  Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

  Walters, John Tudor

  Lynch, H. B.

  Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'

  Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)

  Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs

  Redmond, John E. (Waterford)

  Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

  Mackarness, Frederic C.

  Redmond, William (Clare)

  Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent)

  Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.

  Rees, J. D.

  Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton

  MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.)

  Rendall, Athelstan

  Wardle George J.

  MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)

  Renton, Major Leslie

  Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

  M'Crae, George

  Richards, Thos. (W. Monmouth)

  Wason Eugene Clackmannan)

  M'Kean, John

  Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mptn

  Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)

  M'Kenna, Reginald

  Richardson, A.

  Watt, H. Anderson

  M'Killey, W.

  Rickett, J. Compton

  Wedgwood, Josiah C.

  M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

  Ridsdale, E. A.

  Weir, James Galloway

  M'Micking, Major G.

  Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)

  White, George (Norfolk)

  Maddison, Frederick

  Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

  White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

  Mallet, Charles E.

  Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

  White, Luke (York, E. R.)

  Manfield, Harry (Northants)

  Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee

  White, Patrick (Meath, North)

  Mansfield, H. Kendall (Lincoln)

  Robinson, S.

  Whitehead, Rowland

  Markham, Arthur Basil

  Robson, Sir William Snowdon

  Whitley, J. H. (Haliafx)

  Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston

  Roe, Sir Thomas

  Williams, J. (Glamorgan)

  Marnham, F. J.

  Rogers, F. E. Newman

  Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarthn

  Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)

  Rose, Charles Day

  Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

  Massie, J.

  Rowlands, J.

  Wilson, Hn. C H. W. (Hull, W.

  Masterman, C. F. G.

  Runciman, Walter

  Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.

  Meagher, Michael

  Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

  Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

  Menzies, Walter

  Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

  Wilson, J. W. (Worcestershire, N

  Micklem, Nathaniel

  Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

  Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

  Molteno, Percy Alport

  Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

  Winfrey, R.

  Money, L. G. Chiozza

  Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester)

  Wodehouse, Lord (Norfolk, Mid

  Montagu, E. S.

  Scott, A. H. (Ashton under Lyne

  Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Huddersfd.

  Montgomery, H. G.

  Sears, J. E.

  Young, Samuel

  Mooney, J. J.

  Soely, Major J. B.

  Yoxall, James Henry

  Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)

  Shackleton, David James

  Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

  Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.)

  TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.

  Morrell, Philip

  Shipman, Dr. John G.

  Morse, L. L.

  Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

  Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

  Sloan, Thomas Henry

  934

  935

  NOES.

  Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F.

  Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.

  Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

  Anstruther-Gray, Major

  Craik, Sir Henry

  Mildmay, Francis Bingham

  Ashley, W. W.

  Dalrymple, Viscount

  Morpeth, Viscount

  Baldwin, Alfred

  Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon

  Muntz, Sir Philip A.

  Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond.

  Doughty, Sir George

  Nield, Herbert

  Banbury, Sir Frederick George

  Duncan, Robert (Lanark. Govan

  Parkes, Ebenezer

  Banner, John S. Harmood-

  Faber, George Denison (York)

  Percy, Earl

  Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester

  Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

  Randles, Sir John Scurrah

  Barrio, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)

  Forster, Henry William

  Rawlinson, John Frederick Pee

  Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

  Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

  Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)

  Beckett, Hon. Gervase

  Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

  Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

  Bowles, G. Stewart

  Hamilton, Marquess of

  Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

  Boyle, Sir Edward

  Hardy, Lanrence (Kent, Ashford

  Salter, Arthur Clavell

  Bridgeman, W. Clive

  Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

  Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

  Bull, Sir William James

  Hay, Hon. Claude George

  Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

  Burdett-Coutts, W.

  Heaton, John Henniker

  Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East

  Butcher, Samuel Henry

  Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

  Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

  Curlile, E. Hildred

  Hills, J. W.

  Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.

  Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.

  Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H.

  Stone, Sir Benjamin

  Castlereagh, Viscount

  Kenyon-Slaney Rt. Hn. Col. W.

  Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

  Cave, George

  Kimber, Sir Henry

  Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark

  Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.

  Lane-Fox, G. R.

  Thornton, Percy M.

  Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

  Liddell, Henry

  Valentia, Viscount

  Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

  Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.

  Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard

  Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Wore.

  Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham)

  Wilson, A. Stanley(York, E. R.)

  Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

  Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.

  Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

  Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birmingh'm

  Lowe, Sir Francis William

  Younger, George

  Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

  Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

  Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

  M'Calmont, Colonel James

  TELLERS FOR THE NOES— Mr. Fell and Mr. Watson Rutherford.

  Courthope, G. Loyd

  Magnus, Sir Philip

  Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.)

  Marks, H. H. (Kent)

  MR.RAWLINSON MR.RAWLINSON(Cambridge University) moved to amend Clause 1, by leaving out the words stating that an offender would be guilty of "an illegal practice within the meaning of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Prevention Act, 1883," in order to insert: "And an offence and hall on summary conviction he liable to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds, and be incapable during a period of five years from the date of his conviction of being registered as an elector or voting at any election (whether it be a Parliamentary election or an election for a public office held for or within the county or borough in which the illegal practice has been committed)." The hon. Member explained that the object of his Amendment was very simple: that instead of referring to various Acts of Parliament the penalties should all be stated in this Bill. He had, in order to carry out his intention, looked up the provisions of all the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Arts. He had never known any body who had anything to do with Acts of Parliament 10 justify this system of legislation by reference. The right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer on a previous occasion had frankly admitted that he had used the same
  936
  arguments when in Opposition and proceeded to give the same answer as that which he had then received, namely, that it was done as a matter of convenience, and if these penalties were set out in the Bill it would lead to a great deal of discussion and innumerable Amendments. If it was true that Parliament did not know what it had done when it legislated in this way then the system ought to come to an end. In a case with which they were sadly familiar at the present time, the West Riding case, Mr. Justice Farwell said that in Acts of Parliament there were frequently ambiguous expressions, and the learned Judge almost suggested that sometimes those ambiguities were purposely allowed to remain in Acts by this House. If that was so it was a scandalous state of things. If that were true there could be no harm, instead of legislating by reference, in taking this opportunity to add the Amendment, which he had placed upon the Paper, to the Bill. He begged to move.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2, line 9, to leave out from the word 'of,' to end of clause, and to insert the words, 'an offence, and shall on summary conviction be

  937
  able to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds, and be incapable during a period of live years from the date of his conviction of being registered as an elector or voting at any election (whether it be a Parliamentary election or an election for a public office) held for or within the county or borough in which the illegal practice has been committed.'"—(Mr. Rawlinson.)
  Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out, to the second word 'of,' in line 9, stand part of the clause."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid that the arguments of the hon. Member as to the undesirable character of legislation by reference to other Acts were very familiar to the Loaders of the Unionist Party. He did not think that the House or Ministers would over part now with a habit which they had by compulsion adopted of legislating as far as they could by reference and in order to save themselves from the plethora of eloquence to which they were often exposed on Amendments which wore almost frivolous in their character. ["Oh, oh."] It was not necessary to argue the question of legislation by reference, but if the hon. Member wanted a defence of the method, he must apply to his Leader sitting below him. It was, however, a moderately convenient method, and the Government hoped by its means to attain the result at which they aimed.
  LORD R. CECILsaid the defence of the Minister in charge of the Bill amounted to the statement that a practice had now grown up of legislating by reference which could not be ignored. That argument only wanted to be carried a little further and it would be said that this was a precedent which could not be departed from. The second argument of the right hon. Gentleman was that it had already been done by the Leader of the Opposition. If it had been done, he (Lord R. Cecil) had no knowledge of it personally, and he could only regret it. He trusted the present democratic House of Commons would free the Legislature from that reproach. All it meant was this: that Ministers got up and said, "If we cannot legislate in this way we cannot legislate at all." In other words, their plea was that the House of Commons was no longer capable of doing what it was constituted to do. If that was so, let them have a new House of Commons; let them
  938
  not put upon the Statute Book a mass of ill-considered statutes. He ventured to appeal once again to hon. Members, many of whom he knew were perfectly in agreement with him upon this question, to put into Bills where they could the enacting words. They might not be able to do it in all cases, but at all events let them in this case create a precedent and insert the enacting words of this Amendment, instead of referring to previous statutes. It was doubly necessary in a matter of criminal law that persons should know the penalties that might be incurred instead of, their having to search through the Statute Book.
  MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid there were really two points before the Committee. Upon one he was in general agreement with his hon. friend. Upon the other and more general question he thought there was a very large assumption of what a longer Parliamentary experience would show to be an impracticable ideal. In the present case he should think there could be no difficulty in introducing the words of his hon. friend. There could only be one opinion upon the advantage of not legislating by reference if it could be avoided, and there were arguments of strength for introducing words and thus making quite clear what were the penalties. This was a case where it was very desirable that the actual words should be introduced. If the result of introducing those words would be to create a protracted debate he should think the course adopted by the Government might be justified. But was it alleged that the introduction of the words of his hon. friend would lead to a great flow of eloquence or that progress would be delayed by adopting the suggestion? If that was not alleged this was one of the cases in which everything pointed in the direction of legislating directly by placing the penalties in the Bill rather than indirectly by referring to previous statutes. But whilst urging the Government to accept this Amendment he did not think it possible in the modern House of Commons, however constituted, for legislation by reference to be wholly evaded. His two hon. and learned friends approached this question
  without a very long Parliamentary experience behind them. Both were eminent lawyers and both saw the inconvenience of this modern practice of legislating by reference, but he was quite certain that it could not be avoided. He was absolutely convinced from his own experience that every Government would be drawn into this method, objectionable as it was. It was not convenient to lawyers, but it was quite impossible that it should be avoided. Did anyone deny—he certainly never had denied—that if they had an assembly of 670 Members, all qualified to speak, and many of them very anxious to speak, debates in this House must be prolonged. He had never denied that the prolongation might be such that each Government might be driven in turn to adopt closure by compartment, which, though a disastrous method, was in some cases absolutely essential. If those were the straits to which they had been driven already by the inevitable development of our Parliamentary institutions, then he said they could not afford to give up any device such as that by legislation by reference. He was himself responsible for much legislation by reference, and now that he was in opposition he was not going to repudiate views which he honestly held then and still held. Therefore on the question of the broad necessity of using this method of legislation by reference he did not think the Government
  were open to attack. He did not think the Government, however, were very wise in this particular case, because they were dealing with a penalty to which large numbers of voters in the country might render themselves liable, and there was a plain advantage, not from the lawyer's point of view in this case, but from the point of view of the public, in placing on the face of the statute the precise penalty which it was meant to inflict. As he was quite unable to see how proceedings on this Bill would be prolonged by stating in plain language how if was intended to punish and what punishment was to be given, he did press upon the Government that without abandoning the general standpoint of the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill they might make a concession in the case of this Amendment.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDrose to speak.
  SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANrose in his place and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."
  Question put, "That the Question be now put."—(Sir H. Campbell-Banner-man.)
  '"The Committee divided:—Ayes, 356; Noes, 96. (Division List No. 346.)

  AYES.

  Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.)

  Benn, W. (T'w'rHamlets, S. Geo.

  Burnyeat, W. J. D.

  Abraham, William (Rhondda)

  Bertram, Julius

  Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas.

  Acland, Francis Dyke

  Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford)

  Byles, William Pollard

  Ainsworth, John Stirling

  Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon

  Cairns, Thomas

  Alden, Percy

  Billson, Alfred

  Cameron, Robert

  Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

  Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine

  Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.

  Ambrose, Robert

  Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire

  Carr-Gomm, H. W.

  Ashton, Thomas Gair

  Boland, John

  Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight

  Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

  Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E.)

  Cawley, Frederick

  Astbury, John Meir

  Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey)

  Chance, Frederick William

  Atherley-Jones, L.

  Bowerman, C. W.

  Cheetham, John Frederick

  Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

  Brace, William

  Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.

  Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight

  Bramsdon, T. A.

  Churchill, Winston Spencer

  Barker, John

  Brigg, John

  Clarke, C. Goddard

  Barlow, John Emmott (Somers't

  Bright, J. A.

  Clough, W.

  Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

  Brocklehurst, W. B.

  Clynes, J. R.

  Barnard, E. B.

  Brodie, H. C.

  Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)

  Barnes, G. N.

  Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)

  Cobbold, Felix Thornley

  Barran, Rowland Hirst

  Brunner, Rt Hn. Sir J. T. (Chesh.)

  Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W

  Beale, W. P.

  Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs)

  Corbett CH. (Sussex, E. Grinst'd

  Beauchamp, E.

  Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn

  Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

  Beaumont, Hn. W. C. B. (Hexh'm

  Buckmaster, Stanley O.

  Cotton, Sir H. J. S.

  Heck, A. Cecil

  Burke, E. Haviland-

  Cox, Harold

  Bellairs, Carlyon

  Burns, Rt. Hon. John

  Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)

  Cremer, William Randal

  Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

  Morse, L. L.

  Crooks, William

  Hodge, John

  Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

  Crosfield, A. H.

  Hogan, Michael

  Murnaghan, George

  Dalmeny, Lord

  Holden, E. Hopkinson

  Murphy, John

  Dalziel, James Henry

  Holland, Sir William Henry

  Murray, James

  Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

  Hooper, A. G.

  Myer, Horatio

  Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan

  Horridge, Thomas Gardner

  Napier, T. B.

  Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

  Hudson, Walter

  Newnes, Sir George (Swansea)

  Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

  Hutton, Alfred Eddison

  Nicholls, George

  Delany, William

  Hyde, Clarendon

  Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r)

  Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

  Illingworth, Percy H.

  Nolan, Joseph

  Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.

  Jacoby, James Alfred

  Norman, Henry

  Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

  Jenkins, J.

  Norton, Capt. Cecil William

  Dunelan, Captain A.

  Johnson, W. (Nuneaton)

  Nussey, Thomas Willans

  Duckworth, James

  Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea

  Nuttall, Harry

  Duffy, William J.

  Jones, Leif (Appleby)

  O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid

  Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness

  Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

  O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

  Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

  Jowett, F. W.

  O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.)

  Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

  Joyce, Michael

  O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

  Dunne, Major E. Martn (Walsall

  Kearley, Hudson E.

  O'Doherty, Philip

  Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

  Kekewich, Sir George

  O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)

  Edwards, Frank (Radnor)

  Kincaid-Smith, Captain

  O'Grady J.

  Elibank, Master of

  King, Alfred John (Knutsford

  O'Kelly, Jas (Roscommon, N.)

  Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward

  Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James

  O'Malley, William

  Erskine, David C.

  Laidlaw, Robert

  O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

  Esmonde, Sir Thomas

  Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster

  Palmer, Sir Charles Mark

  Eve, Harry Trelawney

  Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

  Parker, James (Halifax)

  Everett, R. Lacey

  Lambert, George

  Paul, Herbert

  Faber, G. H (Boston)

  Lamont, Norman

  Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek)

  Fenwick, Charles

  Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

  Pearce, William (Limehouse)

  Ferens, T. R.

  Layland-Barratt, Francis

  Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton

  Forguson, R. C. Munro

  Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington

  Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

  Fiennes, Hon. Eustace

  Lehmann, R. C.

  Pickersgill, Edward Hare

  Flynn, James Christopher

  Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich

  Pirie, Duncan V.

  Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry

  Levy, Maurice

  Pollard, Dr.

  Freeman-Thomas, Freeman

  Lewis, John Herbert

  Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central)

  Fuller, John Michael F.

  Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David

  Rainy, A. Rolland

  Fullerton, Hugh

  Lough, Thomas

  Raphael, Herbert H.

  Gardner, Col. Alan (Hereford, S.

  Lundon, W.

  Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

  Gibb, James (Harrow)

  Lupton, Arnold

  Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'

  Gill, A. H.

  Lyell, Charles Henry

  Redmond, John E. (Waterford)

  Ginnell, L.

  Lynch, H. B.

  Redmond, William (Clare)

  Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John

  Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk Bghs.

  Rees, J. D.

  Glover, Thomas

  Maclean, Donald

  Rendall, Athelstan

  Goddard, Daniel Ford

  Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.

  Renton, Major Leslie

  Gooch, George Peabody

  MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

  Richards, Thos. (W. Monm'th)

  Grant, Corrie

  MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)

  Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n

  Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

  M'Crae, George

  Richardson, A.

  Greenwood, Hamar (York)

  M'Kean, John

  Rickett, J. Compton

  Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward

  M'Kenna, Reginald

  Ridsdale, E. A.

  Griffith, Ellis J.

  M'Killop, W.

  Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln

  Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

  M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

  Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

  Gulland, John W.

  M'Micking, Major G.

  Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

  Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton

  Maddison, Frederick

  Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)

  Hall, Frederick

  Mallet, Charles E.

  Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

  Harcourt, Right Hon. Lewis

  Manfield, Harry (Northants)

  Robinson, S.

  Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)

  Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)

  Robson, Sir William Snowdon

  Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

  Markham, Arthur Basil

  Roe, Sir Thomas

  Hart-Davies, T.

  Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)

  Rogers, F. E. Newman

  Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)

  Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)

  Rose, Charles Day

  Harwood, George

  Massie, J.

  Runciman, Walter

  Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

  Masterman, C. F. G.

  Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

  Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

  Menzies, Walter

  Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

  Haworth, Arthur A.

  Micklem, Nathaniell

  Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

  Hazel, Dr. A. E.

  Molteno, Percy Alport

  Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

  Hedges, A. Paget

  Money, L. G. Chiozza

  Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester)

  Helme, Norval Watson

  Montagu, E. S.

  Scott, A. H. (Ashton under Lyne

  Hemmerde, Edward George

  Montgomery, H. G.

  Sears, J. E.

  Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

  Mooney, J. J.

  Seely, Major J. B.

  Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.)

  Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)

  Shackleton, David James

  Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

  Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

  Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.

  Higham, John Sharp

  Morley, Rt. Hon. John

  Shipman, Dr. John G.

  Hobart, Sir Robert

  Morrell, Philip

  Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

  942

  943

  Sloan, Thomas Henry

  Thorne, William

  Weir, James Galloway

  Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

  Tomkinson, James

  White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire

  Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.

  Torrance, Sir A. M.

  White, Luke (York, E. R.)

  Snowden, P.

  Toulmin, George

  White, Patrick (Meath, North)

  Soames, Arthur Wellesley

  Trevelyan, Charles Philips

  Whitehead, Rowland

  Soares, Ernest J.

  Verney, F. W.

  Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

  Spicer, Sir Albert

  Vivian, Henry

  Williams, J. (Glamorgan)

  Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)

  Wadsworth, J.

  Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n

  Steadman, W. C.

  Waldron, Laurence Ambrose

  Williams Osmond (Merioneth

  Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

  Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

  Wilson, Hon. C. H. W. (Hull, W.

  Strachey, Sir Edward

  Wallace, Robert

  Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

  Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

  Walsh, Stephen

  Wilson, J.H. (Middlesbrough)

  Stuart, James (Sunderland)

  Walters, John Tudor

  Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.)

  Sullivan, Donal

  Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.

  Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

  Summerbell, T.

  Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

  Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

  Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth

  Ward, John(Stoke-upon-Trent

  Winfrey, R.

  Taylor, John W. (Durham)

  Ward, W. Dudley (South'mpt.

  Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudd'rsf'd

  Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe

  Wardle, George J.

  Young, Samuel

  Pennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)

  Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

  Yoxall, James Henry

  Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.

  Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan

  Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.

  Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)

  TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.

  Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr

  Watt, H. Anderson

  Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E

  Wedgwood, Josiah C.

  NOES.

  Anstruther-Gray, Major

  Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon

  Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington

  Ashley, W. W.

  Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan

  Percy, Earl

  Balcarres, Lord

  Faber, George Denison (York)

  Powell, Sir Francis Sharp

  Baldwin, Alfred

  Fell, Arthur

  Randles, Sir John Scurrah

  Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (CityLond.

  Finch, Rt. Hn. George H.

  Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel

  Banbury, Sir Frederick George

  Forster, Henry William

  Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)

  Banner, John S. Harmood-

  Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East

  Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

  Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)

  Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

  Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

  Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)

  Hamilton, Marquess of

  Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)

  Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

  Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford

  Salter, Arthur Clavell

  Beckett, Hon. Gervase

  Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

  Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

  Bowles, G. Stewart

  Hay, Hon, Claude George

  Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

  Boyle, Sir Edward

  Heaton, John Henniker

  Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)

  Bridgeman, W. Clive

  Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

  Smith, F.E (Liverpool, Walton

  Bull, Sir William James

  Hills, J. W.

  Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

  Burdett-Coutts, W.

  Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H.

  Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.)

  Butcher, Samuel Henry

  Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W.

  Stone, Sir Benjamin

  Carlile, E. Hildred

  Kimber, Sir Henry

  Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

  Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

  Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

  Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv.

  Castlereagh, Viscount

  Lane-Fox, G. R.

  Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)

  Cave, George

  Liddell, Henry

  Thornton, Percy M.

  Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.

  Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.

  Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard

  Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

  Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham)

  Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid)

  Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

  Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.)

  Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.

  Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Worc

  Lowe, Sir Francis William

  Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

  Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

  Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

  Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

  Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birmingham

  M'Calmont, Colonel James

  Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

  Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

  Magnus, Sir Philip

  Younger, George

  Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

  Marks, H. H. (Kent)

  Courthope, G. Loyd

  Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

  TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and

  Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.)

  Mildmay, Francis Bingham

  Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

  Morpeth, Viscount

  Viscount Valentia.

  Craik, Sir Henry

  Muntz, Sir Philip A.

  Dalrymple, Viscount

  Nield, Herbert

  Question put accordingly, "That the words proposed to be left out, to the
  The Committee divided:—Ayes, 359; Noes, 95. (Division List No. 347.)

  AYES.

  Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.

  Ainsworth, John Stirling

  Ambrose, Robert

  Abraham William (Rhondda)

  Alden, Percy

  Ashton, Thomas Gair

  Acland, Francis Dyke

  Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

  Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

  second word 'of,' in line 9, stand part of the clause."
  H. CAMPBELLL-BANNERMANclaimed "That the Question "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill be now put."
  The Committee divided:—Ayes, 361; Noes, 96. (Division List No. 318.)

  AYES.

  Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.

  Ainsworth, John Stirling

  Ambrose, Robert

  Abraham William (Rhondda)

  Alden, Percy

  Ashton, Thomas Gair

  Acland, Francis Dyke

  Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

  Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

  Astbury, John Meir

  Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

  Hudson, Walter

  Atherley-Jones, L.

  Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

  Hutton, Alfred Eddison

  Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

  Delany, William

  Hyde, Clarendon

  Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

  Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

  Illingworth, Percy H.

  Barker, John

  Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras N

  Jacoby, James Alfred

  Barlow, John Emmott (S'm's't

  Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

  Jenkins, J.

  Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

  Donelan, Captain A.

  Johnson, W. (Nuneaton)

  Barnard, E. B.

  Duckworth, James

  Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea

  Barnes, G. N.

  Duffy, William J.

  Jones, Leif (Appleby)

  Barran, Rowland Hirst

  Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness

  Jones, William (Carnarvonshire

  Beale, W. P.

  Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

  Jowett, F. W.

  Beauchamp, E.

  Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

  Joyce, Michael

  Beaumont, Hn. W. C. B. (H'x'm

  Dunne, Major E. Martin (Wals'l

  Kearley, Hudson E.

  Beck, A. Cecil

  Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

  Kekewich, Sir George

  Bellairs, Carlyon

  Edwards, Frank (Radnor)

  Kelley, George D.

  Benn, W (Tow'rHamlets, S. Geo.

  Elibank, Master of

  King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

  Bertram, Julius

  Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward

  Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James

  Bethell, J. R. (Esses, Romford)

  Erskine, David C.

  Laidlaw, Robert

  Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)

  Esmonde, Sir Thomas

  Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster

  Billson, Alfred

  Eve, Harry Trelawney

  Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

  Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine

  Everett, R. Lacey

  Lambert, George

  Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordsh.)

  Faber, G. H. (Boston)

  Lamont, Norman

  Boland, John

  Fenwick, Charles

  Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

  Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E.)

  Ferens, T. R.

  Layland-Barratt, Francis

  Boulton, A. C. P. (Ramsey)

  Ferguson, R. C. Munro

  Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington

  Bowerman, C. W.

  Field, William

  Lehman, Rt. C.

  Brace, William

  Fiennes, Hon. Eustace

  Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich

  Bramsdon, T. A.

  Flynn, James Christopher

  Levy, Maurice

  Branch, James

  Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry

  Lewis, John Herbert

  Brigg, John

  Freeman-Thomas, Freeman

  Lough, Thomas

  Bright, J. A.

  Fuller, John Michael F.

  Lundon, W.

  Brocklehurst, W. B.

  Fullerton, Hugh

  Lyell, Charles Henry

  Brodie, H. C.

  Gardner, Col. Alan (Heref'd, S.)

  Lynch, H. B.

  Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)

  Gibb, James (Harrow)

  Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs

  Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T. (Chesh.

  Gill, A. H.

  Maclean, Donald

  Bryce, Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen

  Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John

  Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.

  Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs)

  Glover, Thomas

  MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

  Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn

  Goddard, Daniel Ford

  MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.

  Buckmaster, Stanley O.

  Gooch, George Peabody

  M'Crae, George

  Burke, E. Haviland-

  Grant, Corrie

  M'Kean, John

  Burns, Rt. Hon. John

  Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

  M'Kenna, Reginald

  Burnyeat, W. J. D.

  Greenwood, Hamar (York)

  M'Killop, W.

  Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles

  Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward

  M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

  Byles, William Pollard

  Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

  M'Micking, Major G.

  Cairns, Thomas

  Gulland, John W.

  Maddison, Frederick

  Cameron, Robert

  Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton

  Mallet, Charles E.

  Campbell-Bannermm, Sir H.

  Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.

  Manfield, Harry (Northants)

  Carr-Gomm, H. W.

  Hall, Frederick

  Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln

  Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight

  Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis

  Markham, Arthur Basil

  Cawley, Frederick

  Hardie, J. Kier (Merthyr T'dv'l

  Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston

  Chance, Frederick William

  Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

  Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)

  Cheetham, John Frederick

  Hart-Davies, T.

  Massie, J.

  Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.

  Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)

  Masterman, C. F. G.

  Churchill, Winston Spencer

  Harwood, George

  Meagher, Michael

  Clarke, C. Goddard

  Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

  Menzies, Walter

  Clough, W.

  Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

  Micklem, Nathaniel

  Clynes, J. R.

  Haworth, Arthur A.

  Moltono, Percy Alport

  Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)

  Hazel, Dr. A. E.

  Money, L. G. Chiozza

  Cobbold, Felix Thornley

  Hedges, A. Paget

  Montagu, E. S.

  Collins, Sir Wm J (S. Pancras, W.

  Helme, Norval Watson

  Montgomery, H. G.

  Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

  Hemmerde, Edward George

  Mooney, J. J.

  Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Gr'std')

  Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

  Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)

  Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

  Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.

  Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen

  Cotton, Sir H. J. S.

  Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

  Morley, Rt. Hon. John

  Cox, Harold

  Higham, John Sharp

  Morrell, Philip

  Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)

  Hobart, Sir Robert

  Morse, L. L.

  Cremer, William Randal

  Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

  Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

  Crooks, William

  Hodge, John

  Murnaghan, George

  Crosfield, A. H.

  Hogan, Michael

  Murphy, John

  Dahneny, Lord

  Holden, E. Hopkinson

  Murray, James

  Dalziel, James Henry

  Holland, Sir William Henry

  Myer, Horatio

  Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

  Hooper, A. G.

  Napier, T. B.

  Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan

  Horridge, Thomas Gardner

  Newnes, Sir George (Swansea)

  946

  947

  Nicholls, George

  Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)

  Tomkinson, James

  Nicholson, Charles N. (Donc's)

  Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

  Torrance, Sir A. M.

  Nolan, Joseph

  Robinson, S.

  Toulmin, George

  Norman, Henry

  Robson, Sir William Snowdon

  Trevelyan, Charles Philips

  Norton, Capt. Cecil William

  Roe, Sir Thomas

  Verney, F. W.

  Nussey, Thomas Willans

  Rogers, F. E. Newman

  Vivian, Henry

  Nuttall, Harry

  Rose, Charles Day

  Wadsworth, J.

  O'Brien, Kendal (Tip'ry Mid.)

  Runciman, Walter

  Waldron, Laurence Ambrose

  O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

  Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

  Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

  O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.

  Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland

  Wallace, Hubert

  O'Connor, John (Kiklaro, N.)

  Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

  Walsh, Stephen

  O'Doherty, Philip

  Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

  Walters, John Tudor

  O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)

  Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manch'ster

  Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.

  O'Grady, J.

  Scott, A. H. (Ashton-under-Lyne

  Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

  O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N

  Sears, J. E.

  Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent

  O'Malley, William

  Seely, Major J. B.

  Ward, W. Dudley (S'th'mpton

  O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

  Shackleton, David James

  Wardle, George J.

  Palmer, Sir Charles Mark

  Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.

  Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

  Parker, James (Halifax)

  Shipman, Dr. John G.

  Wason, Eugune (Clackmannan

  Paul, Herbert

  Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

  Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney

  Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)

  Sloan, Thomas Henry

  Watt, H. Anderson

  Pearce, William (Limehouse)

  Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

  Wedgwood, Josiah C.

  Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'th'mpt'n)

  Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.

  Weir, James Galloway

  Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

  Snowdon, P.

  White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

  Pickersgill, Edward Hare

  Soames, Arthur Wellesley

  White, Luke (York, E. R.)

  Pirie, Duncan V.

  Soares, Ernest J.

  White, Patrick (Meath, North)

  Pollard, Dr.

  Spicer, Sir Albert

  Whitehead, Rowland

  Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)

  Stanger, H. Y.

  Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

  Rainy, A. Rolland

  Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)

  Williams, J. (Glamorgan)

  Raphael, Herbert H.

  Steadman, W. C.

  Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'th'n

  Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

  Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

  Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

  Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro

  Strachey, Sir Edward

  Wilson, Hon. C. H. W. (Hull, W

  Redmond, John E. (Waterford

  Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

  Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

  Redmond, William (Clare)

  Stuart, James (Sunderland)

  Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

  Rees, J. D.

  Sullivan, Donal

  Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N)

  Rendall, Athelstan

  Summerbell, T.

  Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

  Renton, Major Leslie

  Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

  Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

  Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'h

  Taylor, John W. (Durham)

  Winfrey, R.

  Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n

  Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

  Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (H'dersf'd

  Richardson, A.

  Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)

  Young, Samuel

  Rickett, J. Compton

  Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.

  Yoxall, James Henry

  Ridsdale, E. A.

  Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.

  Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)

  Thomas, David Alfred (Merth'r

  TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr, Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.

  Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

  Thompson, J. W. H. (Somers't, E

  Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

  Thorne, William

  NOES.

  Acland-Hood, Rt Hn. Sir Alex. F.

  Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Wor.

  Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H.

  Anstruther-Gray, Major

  Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

  Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W.

  Ashley, W. W.

  Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birmingh'm

  Kimber, Sir Henry

  Balcarres, Lord

  Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

  Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

  Baldwin, Alfred

  Courthope, G. Loyd

  Lane-Fox, G. R.

  Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(City, Lond.

  Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.

  Liddell, Henry

  Banbury, Sir Frederick George

  Craig, Captain James (Down. E.

  Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.

  Banner, John S. Harmood-

  Craik, Sir Henry

  Lond, Col. Charles W. (Evesh'm

  Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester

  Dalrymple, Viscount

  Lond, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin. S.

  Barire, H. T. (Londonderry. N.

  Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon

  Lowe, Sir Francis William

  Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

  Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Gov'n

  Lyttleton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

  Beckett, Hon. Gervase

  Faber, George Denison (York)

  M'Calmont, Colonel James

  Bowles, G. Stewart

  Fell, Arthur

  Magnus, Sir Philip

  Boyle, Sir Edward

  Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

  Marks, H. H. (Kent)

  Bridgeman, W. Clive

  Forster, Henry William

  Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

  Bull, Sir William James

  Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

  Mildmay, Francis Bingham

  Burdett-Coutts, W.

  Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

  Morpeth, Viscount

  Butcher, Samuel Henry

  Hamilton, Marquess of

  Muntz, Sir Philip A.

  Carlile, E. Hildred

  Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'd

  Nield, Herbert

  Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

  Harrison-Boardley, Col. H. B.

  Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington

  Castlereagh, Viscount

  Hay, Hon. Claude George

  Percy, Earl

  Cave, George

  Heaton, John Henniker

  Powell, Sir Francis Sharp

  Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C. W.

  Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

  Randles, Sir John Scurrah

  Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

  Hill, J. W.

  Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)

  948

  949

  Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

  Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'ah.

  Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E R.)

  Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

  Stone, Sir Benjamin

  Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

  Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)

  Talbot, Lord K. (Chichester)

  Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart

  Salter, Arthur Clavell

  Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ

  Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

  Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

  Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Lanark)

  Younger, George

  Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

  Thornton, Percy M.

  Smith, Abel H. (Hortf'd, East)

  Valentia, Viscount

  TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Rawlinson and Lord Robert Cecil.

  Smith, F. E. (Liverpool, Walton

  Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard

  Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

  Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.)

  AYES.

  Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.

  Burns, Rt. Hon. John

  Erskine, David C.

  Abraham, William (Rhondda)

  Burnyeat, W. J. D.

  Esmonde, Sir Thomas

  Acland, Francis Dyke

  Buxton, Rt. Hn Sydney Charles

  Eve, Harry Trclawney

  Ainsworth, John Stirling

  Byles, William Pollard

  Everett, R. Lacey

  Alden, Percy

  Cairns, Thomas

  Faber, G. H. (Boston)

  Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

  Cameron, Robert

  Fenwick, Charles

  Ambrose, Robert

  Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.

  Ferens, T. R.

  Ashton, Thomas Gair

  Carr-Gomm, H. W.

  Ferguson, R. C. Munro

  Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

  Causton, Rt Hn Richard Knight

  Field, William

  Astbury, John Meir

  Cawley, Frederick

  Fiennes, Hon. Eustace

  Atherley-Jones, L.

  Chance, Frederick William

  Flynn, James Christopher

  Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

  Cheetham, John Frederick

  Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry

  Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

  Cherry, Rt Hon. R. R.

  Freeman-Thomas, Freeman

  Barker, John

  Churchill, Winston Spencer

  Fuller, John Michael F.

  Barlow, John Emmott (S'm'rs't

  Clarke, C. Goddard

  Fullerton, Hugh

  Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

  Cleland, J. W.

  Gardner, Col. Alan (Hereford.

  Barnard, E. B.

  Clongh, W.

  Gibb, James (Harrow)

  Barnes, G. N.

  Clynes, J. R.

  Gill, A. H.

  Barran, Rowland Hirst

  Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.

  Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert J.

  Beale, W. P.

  Cobbold, Felix Thornley

  Glover, Thomas

  Beauchamp, E.

  Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W

  Goddard, Daniel Ford

  Beaumont, Hn. (W. C. B.) (H'x'm

  Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grins'd

  Gooch, George Peabody

  Beck, A. Cecil

  Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

  Grant, Corrie

  Bellairs, Carlyon

  Cotton, Sir H. J. S.

  Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

  Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets. S. Goo.

  Cox, Harold

  Greenwood, Hamar (York)

  Berridge, T. H. D.

  Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)

  Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward

  Bertram, Julius

  Cremer, William Randal

  Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill

  Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romf'd)

  Crooks, William

  Gulland, John W.

  Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)

  Crosfield, A. H.

  Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton

  Billson, Alfred

  Dalmeny, Lord

  Hall, Frederick

  Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine

  Dalziel, James Henry

  Harcourt, Right Hon. Lewis

  Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire

  Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

  Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr T'dvil

  Boland, John

  Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan

  Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

  Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E.)

  Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

  Hart-Davies, T.

  Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey)

  Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.

  Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)

  Bowerman, C. W.

  Delany, William

  Harwood, George

  Brace, William

  Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.

  Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

  Bramsdon, T. A.

  Dickinson, W. H.(St. Pancras, N.

  Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

  Branch, James

  Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

  Haworth, Arthur A.

  Brigg, John

  Donelan, Captain A.

  Hazel, Dr. A. E.

  Bright, J. A.

  Duckworth, James

  Hedges, A. Paget

  Brocklehurst, W. B.

  Duffy, William J.

  Helme, Norval Watson

  Brodie, H. C.

  Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness

  Hemmerde, Edward George

  Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)

  Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

  Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

  Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T.(Chesh.

  Dunn, A. Edward (Cam borne)

  Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon. S

  Bryce Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen)

  Dunne, Major E. Martin (Wals'l

  Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

  Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs

  Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

  Higham, John Sharp

  Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn

  Edwards, Frank (Radnor)

  Hobart, Sir Robert

  Buekmaster, Stanley O.

  Elibank, Master of

  Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

  Burke, E. Haviland-

  Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward

  Hodge, John

  Hogan, Michael

  Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

  Sloan, Thomas Henry

  Holden, E. Hopkinson

  Murnaghan, George

  Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

  Holland, Sir William Henry

  Murphy, John

  Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.

  Hooper, A. G.

  Murray, James

  Snowdon, P.

  Horridge, Thomas Gardner

  Myer, Horatio

  Soames, Arthur Wellesley

  Hudson, Walter

  Napier, T. B.

  Soares, Ernest J.

  Hutton, Alfred Eddison

  Newnes, F Notts, (Bassetlaw)

  Spicer, Sir Albert

  Hyde, Clarendon

  Newnes, Sir George (Swansea)

  Stanger, H. Y.

  Illingworth, Percy H.

  Nicholls, George

  Stanley, Hn A. Lyulph (Chesh.

  Jacoby, James Alfred

  Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r

  Steadman, W. C.

  Jenkins, J.

  Nolan, Joseph

  Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

  Johnson, W. (Nuneaton)

  Norman, Henry

  Strachey, Sir Edward

  Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea

  Norton, Capt. Cecil William

  Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

  Jones, Leif (Appleby)

  Nussey, Thomas Willans

  Stuart, James (Sunderland)

  Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

  Nuttall, Harry

  Sullivan, Donal

  Jowett, F. W.

  O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid

  Summerbell, T.

  Joyce, Michael

  O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

  Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

  Kearley, Hudson E.

  O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.

  Taylor, John W (Durham)

  Kekewich, Sir George

  O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.

  Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

  Kelley, George D.

  O'Doherty, Philip

  Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)

  Kincaid-Smith, Captain

  O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)

  Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)

  King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

  O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon, N.)

  Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.

  Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James

  O'Malley, William

  Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr

  Laidlaw, Robert

  O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

  Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E

  Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster

  Palmer, Sir Charles Mark

  Thorne, William

  Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

  Parker, James (Halifax)

  Tomkinson, James

  Lambert, George

  Paul, Herbert

  Torrance, Sir A. M.

  Lamont, Norman

  Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)

  Toulmin, George

  Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W)

  Pearce, William (Limehouse)

  Trevelyan, Charles Philips

  Layland-Barratt, Francis

  Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton)

  Verney, F. W.

  Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington

  Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

  Vivian, Henry

  Lehmann, R. C.

  Pickersgill, Edward Hare

  Wadsworth, J.

  Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich

  Prire, Duncan V.

  Waldron, Laurence Ambrose

  Levy, Maurice

  Pollard, Dr.

  Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

  Lewis, John Herbert

  Price, C. E. (Edinburgh, Central)

  Wallace, Robert

  Lough, Thomas

  Rainy, A. Rolland

  Walsh, Stephen

  Lundon, W.

  Raphael, Herbert H.

  Walters, John Tudor

  Lupton, Arnold

  Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

  Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)

  Lyell, Charles Henry

  Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro')

  Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

  Lynch, H. B.

  Redmond, John E. (Waterford

  Ward, John (Stoke upon-Trent

  Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghe

  Redmond, William (Clare)

  Ward, W. Dudley (South'mpt'n

  Mackarness, Frederic C.

  Rees, J. D.

  Wardle, George J.

  Maclean, Donald

  Rendall, Ethelstan

  Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

  Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.

  Renton, Major Leslie

  Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

  MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

  Richards, Thomas(W. Monm'th

  Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)

  MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.

  Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n

  Watt, H. Anderson

  M'Crae, George

  Richardson, A.

  Wedgwood, Josiah C.

  M'Kean, John

  Rickett, J. Compton

  Weir, James Galloway

  M'Kenna, Reginald

  Ridsdale, E. A.

  White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire

  M'Killop W.

  Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)

  White, Luke (York, E. R.)

  M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

  Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

  White, Patrick (Meath, North)

  M'Micking, Major G.

  Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

  Whitehead, Rowland

  Maddison, Frederick

  Robertson, Rt. Hn. E.(Dundee)

  Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

  Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln

  Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

  Williams, J. (Glamorgan)

  Markham, Arthur Basil

  Robinson, S.

  Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n

  Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston

  Robson, Sir William Snowdon

  Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

  Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)

  Roe, Sir Thomas

  Williamson, A.

  Massie, J.

  Rogers, F. E. Newman

  Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull, W.

  Meagher, Michael

  Rose, Charles Day

  Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

  Menzies, Walter

  Runciman, Walter

  Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

  Micklem, Nathaniel

  Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

  Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.)

  Molteno, Percy Alport

  Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

  Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

  Money, L. G. Chiozza

  Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

  Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

  Montagu, E. S.

  Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

  Winfrey, R.

  Montgomery, H. G.

  Scott, A. H. (Ashton-under-Lyne

  Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Huddr'sf.)

  Mooney, J. J.

  Sears, J. E.

  Young, Samuel

  Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)

  Seely, Major J. B.

  Yoxall, James Henry

  Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

  Shackleton, David James

  Morley, Rt. Hon. John

  Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)

  TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.

  Morrell, Philip

  Shipman, Dr. John G.

  Morse, L. L.

  Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

  952

  953

  NOES.

  Anstruthor-Gray, Major

  Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon

  Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington

  Ashley, W. W.

  Doughty, Sir George

  Percy, Earl

  Balcarres, Lord

  Duncan, Robt. (Lanark, Govan

  Powell, Sir Francis Sharp

  Baldwin, Alfred

  Faber, George Dension (York)

  Randles, Sir John Scurrah

  Balfour, Rt. Hn A. J. (City Lond.)

  Fell, Arthur

  Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel

  Banbury, Sir Frederick George

  Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

  Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)

  Banner, John S. Harmood-

  Forster, Henry William

  Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

  Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)

  Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

  Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

  Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.

  Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

  Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)

  Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

  Hamilton, Marquess of

  Salter, Arthur Clavell

  Beckett, Hon. Gervase

  Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford

  Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

  Bowles, G. Stewart

  Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B

  Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

  Boyle, Sir Edward

  Hay, Hon. Claude George

  Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)

  Bridgeman, W. Clive

  Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

  Smith, F. E. (Liverpool, Walton

  Bull, Sir William James

  Hills, J. W.

  Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

  Burdett-Coutts, W.

  Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H.

  Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.)

  Butcher, Samuel Henry

  Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W.

  Stone, Sir Benjamin

  Garlile, E. Hildred

  Kimber, Sir Henry

  Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

  Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

  Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

  Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv.

  Castlereagh, Viscount

  Liddell, Henry

  Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)

  Cave, George

  Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.

  Thornton, Percy M.

  Cavendish, Rt. Hn. Victor C. W.

  Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham)

  Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard

  Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

  Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S.

  Walker, Col. W. H.(Lancashire)

  Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E

  Lowe, Sir Francis William

  Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.

  Chamberlain, Rt Hn. A. J. (Worc.

  Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

  Wilson, A. Stauley (York, E. R.)

  Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

  M'Calmont, Colonel James

  Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

  Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birminghm

  Magnus, Sir Philip

  Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-

  Corbett, A. (Cameron (Glasgow)

  Marks, H. H. (Kent)

  Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

  Courthope, G. Loyd

  Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

  Younger, George

  Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.

  Mildmay, Francis Bingham

  Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

  Morpeth, Viscount

  TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood, and Viscount Valentia.

  Craik, Sir Hennry

  Muntz, Sir Philip A.

  Dalrymple, Viscount

  Nield, Herbert

  Question put, "That the Question 'That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill be now put."
  Question put accordingly, "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."
  The Committee divided:—Ayes, 362; Noes, 93. (Division List No. 349.)

  AYES.

  Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.)

  Bothell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)

  Carr-Gomm, H. W.

  Abraham, William (Rhondda)

  Billson, Alfred

  Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight

  Acland, Francis Dyke

  Birroll, Rt. Hon. Augustine

  Cawley, Frederick

  Ainsworth, John Stirling

  Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire

  Chance, Frederick William

  Alden, Percy

  Boland, John

  Cheetham, John Frederick

  Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

  Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E.

  Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.

  Ambrose, Robert

  Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey)

  Churchill, Winston Spencer

  Ashton, Thomas Gair

  Bowerman, C. W.

  Clarke, C. Goddard

  Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

  Brace, William

  Cleland, J. W.

  Astbury, John Meir

  Bramsdon, T. A.

  Clough, W.

  Atherley-Jones L.

  Branch, James

  Clynes, J. R.

  Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

  Brigg, John

  Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)

  Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury. E.)

  Bright, J. A.

  Cobbold, Felix Thornley

  Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

  Brocklehurst, W. B.

  Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras, W

  Barker, John

  Brodie, H. C.

  Corbett, C. H (Sussex, E. Grinst'd

  Barlow, John Emmott (Somerset

  Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)

  Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

  Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

  Brimncr, Rt Hn. Sir J. T. (Chesh.)

  Cotton, Sir H. J. S.

  Barnard, E. B.

  Bryce, Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen

  Cox, Harold

  Barnes, G. N.

  Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs)

  Craig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)

  Barran, Rowland Hirst

  Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn

  Cremer, William Randal

  Beale, W. P.

  Buckmaster, Stanley O.

  Crooks, William

  Beauchamp, E.

  Burke, E. Haviland-

  Crosfield, A. H.

  Beaumont, Hn W. C. B.(Hexham

  Burns, Rt. Hon John

  Dalmeny, Lord

  Beck, A. Cecil

  Burnyeat, W. J. D.

  Dalziel, James Henry

  Bellairs, Carlyon

  Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas.

  Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

  Bonn, W. (T'w'rH'mlets, S. Geo.

  Byles, William Pollard

  Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan)

  Berridge, T. H. D.

  Cairns, Thomas

  Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

  Bertram, Julius

  Cameron, Robert

  Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

  Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford)

  Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.

  Delany, William

  Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

  Johnson, W. (Nuneaton)

  Norton, Capt. Cecil William

  Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.

  Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea

  Nussey, Thomas Willans

  Donelan, Captain A.

  Jones, Leif (Appleby)

  Nuttall, Harry

  Duckworth, James

  Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

  O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary, Md

  Duffy, William J.

  Jowett, F. W.

  O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

  Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)

  Joyce, Michael

  O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W.)

  Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

  Kearley, Hudson E.

  O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

  Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

  Kekewich, Sir George

  O'Doherty, Philip

  Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall

  Kelley, George D.

  O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)

  Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

  Kincaid-Smith, Captain

  O'Grady, J.

  Edwards, Frank (Radnor)

  King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

  O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon, N.)

  Elibank, Master of

  Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James

  O'Malley, William

  Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward

  Laidlaw, Robert

  O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

  Erskine, David C.

  Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster)

  Palmer, Sir Charles Mark

  Esn onde, Sir Thomas

  Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

  Parver, James (Halifax)

  Eve, Harry Trelawney

  Lambert, George

  Partington, Oswald

  Everett, R. Lacey

  Limont, Norman

  Paul, Herbert

  Faber, G. H. (Boston)

  Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

  Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek)

  Fenwick, Charles

  Layland-Barratt, Francis

  Pearce, William (Limehouse)

  Ferguson, R. C. Munro

  Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington

  Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'th'mpton

  Field, William

  Lehmann, R. C.

  Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

  Fiennes, Hon. Eustace

  Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich

  Pickersgill, Edward Hare

  Flynn, James Christopher

  Levy, Maurice

  Pirie, Duncan V.

  Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry

  Lewis, John Herbert

  Pollard, Dr.

  Freeman-Thomas, Freeman

  Lundon, W.

  Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)

  Fuller, John Michael F.

  Lupton, Arnold

  Rainy, A. Rolland

  Fullerton, Hugh

  Lyell, Charles Henry

  Raphael, Herbert H.

  Gardner, Col. Alan (Hereford, S.

  Lynch, H. B.

  Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

  Gibb, James (Harrow)

  Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs

  Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro)

  Gill, A. H.

  Mackarness, Frederic C.

  Redmond, John E.(Waterford)

  Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John

  Maclean, Donald

  Redmond, William (Clare)

  Glover, Thomas

  Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.

  Rees, J. D.

  Goddard, Daniel Ford

  MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

  Rendall, Athelstan

  Grant, Coirie

  MacVeigh, Chas, (Donegal, E.)

  Renton, Major Leslie

  Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

  M'Crae, George

  Richards, Thos. (W. Monm'th)

  Greenwood, Hamar (York)

  M'Kean, John

  Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n)

  Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward

  M'Kenna, Reginald

  Richardson, A.

  Guest, Hon Ivor Churchill

  M'Killop, W.

  Rickett, J. Compton

  Gulland, John W.

  M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

  Ridsdale, E. A.

  Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton

  M'Micking, Major G.

  Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)

  Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.

  Maddison, Frederick

  Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

  Hall, Frederick

  Mallet, Charles E.

  Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

  Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis

  Manfield, Harry (Northants)

  Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)

  Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)

  Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)

  Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

  Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

  Markham, Arthur Basil

  Robinson, S.

  Hart-Davies, T.

  Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)

  Robson, Sir William Snowdon

  Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)

  Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)

  Roe, Sir Thomas

  Harwood, George

  Massie, J.

  Rogers, F. E. Newman

  Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

  Masterman, C. F. G.

  Rose, Charles Day

  Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

  Meagher, Michael

  Runciman, Walter

  Haworth, Arthur A.

  Menziesy Walter

  Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

  Hazel, Dr. A. E.

  Micklem, Nathaniel

  Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

  Hedges, A. Paget

  Molteno, Percy Alport

  Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

  Helme, Norval Watson

  Money, L. G. Chiozza

  Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

  Hemmerde, Edward George

  Montagu, E. S.

  Schwann, Sir C. E. (Manchester)

  Hendersot, Arthur (Durham)

  Montgomery, H. G.

  Scott, A. H. (Ashton-und.-Lyne)

  Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.)

  Mooney, J. J.

  Sears, J. E.

  Herbert, T Arnold (Wycombe)

  Morgan, G. Hay. (Cornwall)

  Seely, Major J. B.

  Higham, John Sharp

  Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

  Shackleton, David James

  Hobart, Sir Robert

  Morrell, Philip

  Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.

  Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

  Morse, L. L.

  Shipman, Dr. John G.

  Hodge, John

  Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

  Sinclair, Rt. Hn. John

  Hogan, Michael

  Murnaghan, George

  Sloan, Thomas Henry

  Holden, E. Hopkinson

  Murphy, John

  Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

  Holland, Sir William Henry

  Murray, James

  Smyth Thos. F. (Leitrim, S.)

  Hooper, A. G.

  Myer, Horatio

  Snowden, P.

  Horridge, Thomas Gardner

  Napier, T. B.

  Soames, Arthur Wellesley

  Hudson, Walter

  Newnes, F. (Notts, Bassetlaw)

  Soares, Ernest J.

  Hutton, Alfred Eddison

  Newnes, Sir George (Swansea)

  Spicer, Sir Albert

  Hyde, Clarendon

  Nicholls, George

  Stanger, H. Y.

  Illingworth, Percy H.

  Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r)

  Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)

  Jacoby, James Alfred

  Nolan, Joseph

  Steadman, W. C.

  Jenkins, J.

  Norman, Henry

  Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

  956

  957

  Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

  Wadsworth, J.

  Whitehead, Rowland

  Strachey, Sir Edward

  Waldron, Laurence Ambrose

  Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

  Straus, B. S. (Mile End)

  Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)

  Williams, J (Glamorgan)

  Stuart, James (Sunderland)

  Wallace, Robert

  Williams, Llewelyn (Carmar'n

  Sullivan, Donal

  Walsh, Stephen

  Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

  Summerbell, T.

  Walters, John Tudor

  Williamson, A.

  Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

  Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)

  Wilson, Hon. C. H. W. (Hull. W.)

  Taylor, John W. (Durham)

  Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

  Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.

  Tailor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

  Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent

  Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

  Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire)

  Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton

  Wilson, J. W. (Worcest'rsh, N.)

  Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)

  Wardle, George J.

  Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

  Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)

  Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

  Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

  Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr

  Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)

  Winfrey, R.

  Thompson, J. W. H. (Somerset, E

  Wason, John Catheart (Orkney

  Woodhouse, Sir J T (Hud'rsf'd

  Thorne, William

  Watt, H Anderson

  Young, Samuel

  Torrance, Sir A. M.

  Wedgwood, Josiah C.

  Yoxall, James Henry

  Toulmin, George

  Weir, James Galloway

  Trevelyan, Charles Philips

  White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire

  TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease

  Verney, F. W.

  White, Luke (York., E. R.)

  Vivian, Henry

  White, Patrick (Meath, North)

  NOES.

  Anstruther-Gray, Major

  Dalrymple, Viscount

  Nield, Herbert

  Ashley, W. W.

  Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon

  Pease, Herbert Pike (Darling'n)

  Balcarres, Lord

  Doughty, Sir George

  Percy, Earl

  Baldwin, Alfred

  Duncan, Robert (Lanark, G'v'n

  Randles, Sir John Scurrah

  Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond.

  Faber, George Denison (York)

  Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel

  Banbury, Sir Frederick George

  Fell, Arthur

  Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)

  Banner, John S. Harmood-

  Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

  Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

  Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)

  Forster, Henry William

  Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

  Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.)

  Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East)

  Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)

  Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

  Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

  Salter, Arthur Clavell

  Beckett, Hon. Gervase

  Hamilton, Marquess of

  Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

  Bowles, G. Stewart

  Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'd)

  Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)

  Boyle, Sir Edward

  Harrison-Broad Icy, Col. H. B.

  Smith, F. E. (Liverpool, Walton)

  Bridgeman, W. Clive

  Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

  Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

  Bull, Sir William James

  Kennaway, Rt Hon Sir John H.

  Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.)

  Burdett-Coutts, W.

  Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W.

  Stone, Sir Benjamin

  Butcher, Samuel Henry

  Kimber, Sir Henry

  Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

  Carlile, E. Hildred

  Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

  Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ.

  Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

  Lane-Fox, G. R.

  Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)

  Castlereagh, Viscount

  Liddell, Henry

  Thornton, Percy M.

  Cave, George

  Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.

  Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard

  Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C. W.

  Lond, Col. Charles W. (Evesh'm

  Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire

  Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

  Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.

  Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.)

  Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.

  Lowe, Sir Francis William

  Wilson, A. Stanley (York. E. R.)

  Chamberlain, Rt Hn. J. A. (Wore.

  Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

  Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

  Cochrane, Hon. Thus. H. A. E.

  M'Calmont, Colonel James

  Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart

  Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Birmingh'm

  Magnus, Sir Philip

  Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

  Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

  Marks, H. H. (Kent)

  Younger, George

  Courthope, G. Loyd

  Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

  Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.

  Mildmay, Francis Bingham

  TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood und Viscount Valentia.

  Craig, Captain James (Down, E.

  Morpeth, Viscount

  Craik, Sir Henry

  Muntz, Sir Philip A.

  Clause 2:—
  MR. COURTHOPEsaid he wished to move the omission of all the words in sub-section 1, after the word "vote" on line 16, so as to make the sub-section apply to all voters. He did so for this principal reason, that during the last hour or two before the close of the poll in a contested election there was almost invariably a great rush of voters, and frequently confusion resulted. He
  958
  thought it would be much better if I the question contained in the schedule of the Bill should be asked of all voters instead of only those who had selected to vote in that constituency. It appeared to him that a person who had failed to select, and whose name was on the register might easily vote under this section in more than one constituency without having any question asked him at all.
  *THE CHAIRMANruled that the Amendment was out of order, as if carried it would contravene the provisions of Clause 1.
  MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINinquired if the Chairman had in his mind that a promise was given by the Minister in charge of the Bill that the schedule should be altered.
  THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. ASQTJITH,): The right hon. Gentleman has denied it.
  MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid the promise was that the schedule should be altered and put in an entirely different form.
  *THE CHAIRMANsaid he could not take into account promises which were said to have been made in regard to a matter which could have only a subsequent effect upon the Bill.
  MR. COURTHOPEasked the Chairman if he had in his mind the case of an elector who had failed to select.
  *THE CHAIRMANsaid he had explained very carefully why the hon. Member was out of order, and that was the only thing he had in his mind and the only thing he ought to have in his mind.
  MR. FORSTERsaid that after what had been said it would require very few words from him to place before the Committee two Amendments which he desired to move. The first was in line 15, to leave out the word "unless" and insert "if." Tie had another Amendment on the Paper in the next line to leave out "negative" and insert "affirmative." He thought the clause thus altered would read better.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2, line 15, to leave out the word 'unless,' and to insert the word 'if.'"—(Air. Forster.)
  Question proposed, "That the word 'unless' stand part of the clause."
  MR. ASQUITHaccepted this Amendment on behalf of the Government, as he thought it would be a distinct improvement. He also thought that the substitution of the word "affirmative" for "negative" was desirable.
  Amendment agreed to.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2 line 6, to leave out the word 'negative,' and insert the word 'affirmative.'" —(Mr. Forster.)
  Agreed to.
  SIR E. CARSONsaid the Amendment which he had to move provided for the case where a voter had sent in a notice of selection but it had not reached the town clerk or the clerk to the county council, with the result that the proper mark did not appear opposite to his name. His point was that if the voter asserted that he had sent a notice of selection to the town clerk, notwithstanding the fact that it had not reached the town clerk, he should be allowed to vote. Otherwise although an elector had done everything that the statute required him to do he would be disfranchised. He therefore desired after the word "vote" in line 16, to insert "unless he states to the presiding officer that he has sent a notice in accordance with the provisions of the first section of this Act." In many cases the notice would certainly go astray, and if the voter asserted that he had sent this notice he ought to be allowed to vote.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2, line 16, after the word 'vote,' to insert the words 'unless he states to the presiding officer that he has sent a notice in accordance with the provisions of the first section of this Act.'"—(Sir E. Carson.)
  Question proposed, "That these words be there inserted."
  MR. ASQUITHsaid he could not accept this Amendment. In the first place, if it was introduced at all it was out of place in the present section; it should have been introduced into the first section. The question put to the elector had nothing to do with the qualification. In the second place, such a scheme would

  961
  be impossible to work and would lead to enormous confusion, because it meant that the presiding officer was not to be bound by what appeared on the register, but by an unsupported statement made by the voter. He was quite unable to accept such a proposal.
  LORD R. CECILsaid he should certainly vote for the Amendment if it was pressed to a division, although after the Amendment which had just been accepted this proposal became less important.
  MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsupported the Amendment, and pointed out the hardship which would be entailed if a voter who had taken all the necessary steps was debarred from voting. Supposing a man resided in Northumberland and had a vote in one of the southern counties; he could not see the register in the southern county, and it appeared to be contemplated that in the event of an election, he, knowing that he had made a selection, should travel from North to South and when he reached the constituency, although he had received an acknowledgment, he might find that through the negligence or misconduct of the clerk or of the person printing the register, the proper mark had not been attached to his name. That was the point of his right hon. friend's Amendment, and it had not been dealt with by the Chancellor of the Exchequer at all.
  MR. ASQUITHsaid the argument of the right hon. Gentleman did not affect the question at all. It was quite true that an occurrence of this kind might happen, but the voter would have right of action against the clerk who was negligent or malicious. It was desirable that the presiding officer should be able to say "Here is the register, and I cannot go behind it."

  AYES.

  Ashley, W. W.

  Boyle, Sir Edward

  Cecil, Lord B. (Marylebone, E.

  Balcarres, Lord

  Bridgeman, W. Clive

  Chamberlain, Rt Hn. J. A. (Worc.

  Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (City Lond.

  Butcher, Samuel Henry

  Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

  Banbury, Sir Frederick George

  Carlile, E. Hildred

  Collings, Rt. Hn. J. (Biriningh'm

  Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry, N.

  Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

  Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

  Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks

  Castlereagh, Viscount

  Courthope, G. Loyd

  Beckett, Hon. Gervase

  Cavendish, Rt. Hon. Victor C. W

  Craig, Captain James (Down, E.)

  Bowles, G. Stewart

  Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

  Craik, Sir Henry

  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDhoped that the right hon. Gentleman would assent to the Amendment, because very great hardship would be inflicted if a voter found that owing to some clerical error or mistake it was impossible for him to vote.
  MR. DALZIELsaid it was very interesting to see the anxiety of hon. Members opposite that nobody should be left off the register. Their enthusiasm in regard to the votes of the poorer classes was still more remarkable. If a man were able to go in to a polling booth and upon his mere statement that he had sent a letter be allowed to vote, it would open the door to all kinds of fraud and make the Bill practically useless. He saw no reason whatever for the Amendment.
  SIR E. CARSONdid not think that the hon. Member had followed the discussions on the Bill. This was not a case of disfranchising a man who had a single vote, but of disfranchising a man who had two or three votes. The Chancellor of the Exchequer had said that the presiding officer should be bound by the register, but that was not the right hon. Gentleman's Bill, because under it the register was not conclusive, as the presiding officer had to put a question to the voter. The real difficulty of this Bill was that the register was not going to be conclusive. The point of the Opposition all along had been that once a man was on the register he ought to be able to vote, but in consequence of the clumsy machinery of the Government, thousands of electors would be disfranchised. He should certainly ask the Committee to divide on this Amendment.
  Question put.
  The Committee divided:—Aves, 83; Noes, 321. (Division List No. 350.)

  Dalrymple, Viscount

  Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich)

  Salter, Arthur Clavell

  Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon

  Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A. R.

  Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)

  Doughty, Sir George

  Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham)

  Smith, F. E. (Liverpool, Walton)

  Duncan, Robert (Lanark, G'V'n)

  Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S.)

  Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

  Faber, George Denison (York)

  Lowe, Sir Francis William

  Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh)

  Pell, Arthur

  Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

  Stone, Sir Benjamin

  Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

  M'Calmont, Colonel James

  Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

  Forster, Henry William

  Magnus, Sir Philip

  Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark)

  Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

  Marks, H. H. (Kent)

  Thornton, Percy M.

  Haddock, George R.

  Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

  Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. Howard

  Hamilton, Marquess of

  Mildmay, Francis Bingham

  Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire)

  Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'd)

  Morpeth, Viscount

  Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.)

  Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

  Muntz, Sir Philip A.

  Wilson, A. Stanley (York. E. R.)

  Hay, Hon. Claude George

  Nield, Herbert

  Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

  Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

  Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlingt'n)

  Wortley, Rt. Hon C. B. Stuart-

  Hills, J. W.

  Percy, Earl

  Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

  Houston, Robert Paterson

  Randles, Sir John Scurrah

  Younger, George

  Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H.

  Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel

  Kimber, Sir Henry

  Roberts, S. (Sheffield, Ecclesall)

  TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.

  Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.

  Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

  Lane-Fox, G. R.

  Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)

  NOES

  Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.)

  Burnyeat, W. J. D.

  Ferens, T. R.

  Abraham, William (Rhondda)

  Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles

  Ferguson, R. C. Munro

  Acland, Francis Dyke

  Byles, William Pollard

  Field, William

  Ainsworth, John Stirling

  Cairns, Thomas

  Fiennes, Hon. Eustace

  Alden, Percy

  Ca'neron, Robert

  Flynn, James Christopher

  Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

  Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.

  Fuller, John Michael F.

  Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry

  Carr-Gomm, H. W.

  Fullerton, Hugh

  Astbury, John Meir

  Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight

  Gibb, James (Harrow)

  Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

  Cawley, Frederick

  Gill, A. H.

  Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.)

  Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.

  Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John

  Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

  Churchill, Winston Spencer

  Glover, Thomas

  Barker, John

  Clarke, C. Goddard

  Grant, Corrie

  Barlow, John Emmott (S'm'rs't

  Cleland, J. W.

  Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

  Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

  Clough, W.

  Gulland, John W.

  Barnard, E. B.

  Clynes, J. R.

  Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton

  Barran, Rowland Hirst

  Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.)

  Hall, Frederick

  Beale, W. P.

  Cobbold, Felix Thornley

  Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis

  Beauchamp, E.

  Collins, Sir Wm. J. (S. Pancras W.

  Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)

  Beaumont, Hn. W. C. B. (Hex'm)

  Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

  Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r

  Beck, A. Cecil

  Corbett, C. H. (Sussex, E. Grnst'd

  Hart-Davies, T.

  Bell, Richard

  Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

  Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)

  Bellairs, Carlyon

  Cotton, Sir H. J. S.

  Harwood, George

  Benn, Sir J. Williams (D'v'np rt

  Carig, Herbert J. (Tynemouth)

  Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

  Bonn, W. (T'w'r H'ml'ts. S. Geo.

  Cremer, William Randal

  Haslant, Lewis (Monmouth)

  Berridge, T. H. D.

  Crosfield, A. H.

  Haworth, Arthur A.

  Bertram, Julius

  Dalziel, James Henry

  Hedges, A. Paget

  Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford)

  Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

  Helme, Norval Watson

  Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon)

  Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

  Hcmmerde, Edward George

  Billson, Alfred

  Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

  Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

  Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine

  Delany, William

  Henry, Charles S.

  Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire

  Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

  Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon. S.)

  Boland, John

  Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras, N.

  Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

  Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E.)

  Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles

  Higham, John Sharp

  Bottomley, Horatio

  Ponelan, Captain A.

  Hobart, Sir Robert

  Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey)

  Duckworth, James

  Hobhouse, Charles E. H.

  Brace, William

  Duffy, William J.

  Hogan, Michael

  Bramsdon, T. A.

  Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness)

  Holden, E. Hopkinson

  Branch, James

  Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

  Holland, Sir William Henry

  Brigg, John

  Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

  Hooper, A. G.

  Bright, J. A.

  Dunne, Major E. Martin (Wals'l)

  Horniman, Emslie John

  Brocklehurst, W. B.

  Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

  Horridge, Thomas Gardner

  Brunner, J. F. L. (Lancs., Leigh)

  Edwards, Frank (Radnor)

  Hudson, Walter

  Brunner, Rt. Hn. Sir J. T. (Ches.)

  Elibank, Master of

  Hyde, Clarendon

  Bryce, Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen)

  Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward

  Idris, T. H. W.

  Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs)

  Esmonde, Sir Thomas

  Illingworth, Percy H.

  Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn

  Eve, Harry Trelawney

  Isaacs, Rufus Daniel

  Buckmaster, Stanley O.

  Everett, R. Lacey

  Jackson, R. S.

  Burke, E. Haviland-

  Faber, G. H. (Boston)

  Jaceby, James Alfred

  Burns, Rt. Hon. John

  Fenwick, Charles

  Jenkins, J.

  964

  965

  Johnson, W. (Nuneaton)

  Newnes, R (Notts, Bassotlaw)

  Simon, John Allsebrook

  Jones, Sir D. Brynmor (Swansea)

  Newnes, Sir George (Swansea)

  Sinclain, Rt. Hon. John

  Jones, Leif (Appleby)

  Nicholls, George

  Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

  Jones, William (Carnarvonshire)

  Nolan, Joseph

  Smith, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)

  Jowett, F. W.

  Norton, Capt. Cecil William

  Snowden, P.

  Joyce, Michael

  Nussey, Thomas Willans

  Soares, Ernest J.

  Kearley, Hudson E.

  Nuttall, Harry

  Stanger, H. Y.

  Kekewich, Sir George

  O'Brien, Kendal (Tipper'ry Mid)

  Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.)

  Kelley, George D.

  O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

  Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

  Kincaid-Smith, Captain

  O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.)

  Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

  King, Alfred John (Knutsford)

  O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

  Strachey, Sir Edward

  Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James

  O'Doherty, Philip

  Stuart, James (Sunderland)

  Laidlaw, Robert

  O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)

  Sullivan, Donal

  Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster)

  O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N.

  Summerbell, T.

  Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

  O'Malley, William

  Taylor, John W. (Durham)

  Lambert, George

  O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

  Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

  Lamont, Norman

  Parker, James (Halifax)

  Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E)

  Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

  Partington, Oswald

  Thoams, David Alfred (M'rth'r)

  Layland-Barratt, Francis

  Paul, Herbert

  Thompson, J. W. H. (Somers't, E.

  Lehmann, R. C.

  Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek)

  Tomkinson, James

  Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich)

  Pearce, William (Limehouse)

  Torrance, Sir A. W.

  Levy, Maurice

  Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thanpton)

  Verney, F. W.

  Lewis, John Herbert

  Pickersgill, Edward Hare

  Wadsworth, J.

  Lundon, W.

  Pirie, Duncan V.

  Waldron, Laurence Ambrose

  Lupton, Arnold

  Pollard, Dr.

  Walsh, Stephen

  Lyell, Charles Henry

  Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central

  Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)

  Lynch, H. B.

  Radford, G. H.

  Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

  Macdonald, J. M. (Falkirk B'ghs)

  Rainy, A. Rolland

  Ward, John(Stoke-upon Trent)

  Mackarness, Frederic C.

  Raphael, Herbert H.

  Ward, W. Dudley(S'thampton)

  Maclean, Donald

  Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

  Wardle, George

  Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.

  Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro')

  Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

  MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.

  Redmond, John E. (Waterford)

  Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney

  MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.)

  Redmond, William (Clare)

  Waterlow, D. S.

  M'Crae, George

  Rees, J. D.

  Watt, H. Anderson

  M'Kenna, Heginald

  Rendall, Athelstan

  Wedgwood, Josiah C.

  M'Killop, W.

  Renton, Major Leslin

  Weir, James Galloway

  M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

  Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'th)

  White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

  M'Micking, Major G.

  Richardson, A.

  White, Luke (York, E. R.)

  Maddison, Frederick

  Rickett, J. Compton

  White, Patrick (Meath, North)

  Manfield, Harry (Northants)

  Ridsdale, E. A.

  Whitehead, Rowland

  Mansfield H. Rendall (Lincoln)

  Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

  Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

  Markham, Arthur Basil

  Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

  Wiles, Thomas

  Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston)

  Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee)

  Williams, J. (Glamorgan)

  Massie, J.

  Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

  Williams, Llewelyn (Carim'rth'n)

  Meagher, Michael

  Robinson, S.

  Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)

  Menzies, Walter

  Robson, Sir William Snowdon

  Wills, Arthur Walters

  Micklem, Nathaniel

  Roe, Sir Thomas

  Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)

  Moteno, Percy Alport

  Rogers, F. E. Newman

  Wilsor, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

  Money, L. G. Chiozza

  Rose, Charles Day

  Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)

  Montagu, E. S.

  Runciman, Walter

  Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton

  Mooney, J. J.

  Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

  Wood, T. M'Kinnon

  Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)

  Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

  Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hud'rsf'd)

  Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)

  Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

  Young, Samuel

  Morrell, Philip

  Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

  Yoxall, James Henry

  Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

  Scott, A. H. (Ashton under-Lyne

  Murnaghan, George

  Sears, J. E.

  TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.

  Murphy, John

  Seely, Major J. B.

  Murray, James

  Shackleton, David James

  Myer, Horatio

  Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)

  Napier, T. B.

  Shipman, Dr. John G.

  MR. SAMUEL ROBERTS, in moving to insert the following proviso:—"Provided always that the presiding officer shall not give into custody any person charged with personation unless such person has actually voted," said the Committee would be aware that under the Parliamentary Voters Registration Act of 1843 it was the
  966
  duty of the returning officer to give into custody any person charged with personation, and that by Section 63 of the Ballot Act to ask for a voting paper was to be deemed to be equivalent to voting. Therefore, unless some Amendment similar to that which he now proposed was curried the result would be that any plural voter would be liable to this

  967
  penalty. The Bill was drastic enough in all conscience, but he and those who sat with him thought this penalty was far too severe. They held that a voter in such a case ought not to be given into custody unless he had actually voted. He hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would be of opinion that it was too severe a thing to give a man into custody simply because he had asked for a voting paper. He begged to move.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2, line 21, at end, to insert the words 'Provided always that the presiding officer shall not give into custody any person charged with personation unless such person has actually voted.'"—(Mr. Samuel Roberts.)
  Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
  MR. ASQUITHsaid he was under the impression that his right hon. friend the First Commissioner of Works had already promised to provide for this case. But whether that was so or not he agreed with the hon. Gentleman that it ought to be provided for. These words, however, were a little too wide. He understood the sole object of the hon. Gentleman was to prevent the person being given into custody for personation under this Act.
  MR. SAMUEL ROBERTS: Yes.
  MR. ASQUITH: Then his words must be limited by the insertion of the words "under this Act." In that form, subject to what his right hon. friend proposed to do, he would accept the Amendment.
  MR. SAMUEL ROBERTS: Then, Mr. Eminott, I will move it in that form.
  Amendment to the proposed Amendment—
  "After the word 'personation' to insert the words 'under this Act.' "—(Mr. Samuel Roberts.)—
  Question proposed, "That those words, as amended, be there added."
  MR. STANLEY WILSONasked whether the Amendment would cover the following case. A plural voter entered a polling booth and asked for a
  968
  ballot paper, after which the personating agent requested the presiding officer to put the question in the schedule. Immediately the man answered the question in the affirmative that he was a plural voter he at once committed an offence under the Act. There would be many plural voters who would never perhaps have heard of this Bill. Would this Amendment cover the case he had referred to?
  MR. ASQUITH: Yes. Question put, and agreed to.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid his object in moving to leave out the words "Section 81 of "at the beginning of sub-section (2) was merely to call attention to the fact that the right hon. Gentleman would have to amend this clause in some drastic manner, or else it would be absolute nonsense in working. The Parliamentary Voters Registration Act, 1843, only extended to England and Wales, and the enactments amending the same would neither make that Act nor any part of it apply either to Scotland or to Ireland.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2, line 22, to leave out the words," Section eighty-one of.'"—(Mr. William Rutherford.)
  Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the clause."
  SIR W. ROBSONsaid Section 81 of the Parliamentary Voters' Registration Act was to be applied to this Bill, and would be given the whole scope of this Bill. The mere fact that Section 81 of the Parliamentary Voters' Registration Act did not apply to Ireland did not affect the matter here, so long as they incorporated it with the Bill and afterwards made the Bill apply to Ireland
  SIR F. BANBURYasked whether the hon. Gentleman was correct in saying that it did not apply to Ireland or Scotland, because, if so, he should think a good many Members on the Opposition side would go to reside in one of those countries.
  LORD R. CECILsaid it did not appear to him that the effect of the clause would be such as the Solicitor-General had described. The Act of 1843 was not to be read into this Bill but the question raised here was to be read into the Act mentioned.
  SIR E. CARSONsaid if it were merely that the Act did not apply to Ireland or Scotland he would agree with the Solicitor-General that they might incorporate a section of it applicable to the three countries, but when the section incorporated only made provision for England and Wales, by the very incorporation they accepted the limitation in the section itself. How, then, could the Solicitor-General argue in that case that the section would be applicable to an Act which was going to apply to the three countries? The plain construction would be that his provision only applied when the election was being carried on in England or Wales.
  SIR W. ROBSONsaid that as it was suggested there might be some ambiguity about the matter the Government would reconsider the point.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDasked leave to withdraw his Amendment.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
  MR. H. H. MARKS MR. H. H. MARKS(Kent, Thanet) moved an Amendment, to provide that a voter must "knowingly" give a false answer in order to be guilty of an illegal practice within the meaning of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Prevention Act, 1883. It might be said that the word "knowingly" was not required, as knowledge was implied by the word "false." But the latter term had a colloquial meaning, and it might be held to have such meaning here. The word "knowingly" had been inserted in the first sub-section of Clause 1, and by an Amendment carried this afternoon the word had been inserted in the third sub-section of Clause 1. Therefore, if "knowingly" were not inserted in Clause, 2 it would very naturally lead to the impression that it had been designedly and for some special purpose omitted. Recent decisions in the law
  970
  courts had turned upon the omission of qualifying words in one part of an Act, particularly where qualifying words had appeared in another part of the Act.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2, line 26, after the word 'voter,' to insert the word 'knowingly.' "—(Mr. H. H. Marks.)
  Question proposed—" That the word 'knowingly' be there inserted."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid the Government had powdered this Bill with the word "knowingly," and he had no objection tor another shake of the bottle, so that this Amendment might be included; but he would also wish to accept the succeeding Amendment standing in the name of the hon. Member for the Ecclesall Division of Sheffield which contained words constantly associated with the word "knowingly," namely, "and with intention to evade the provisions of this Act."
  MR. SAMUEL ROBERTSsaid the would move to add to the Amendment the words "and with intention to evade the provisions of this Act."
  Amendment, to the proposed Amendment—
  "To add the words 'and with intention to evade the provisions of this Act.'"
  Agreed to.
  Amendment as amended, agreed to.
  MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN moved to insert the following sub-section: "If any person attempts to prevent a registered elector from voting by threats of proceedings under this Act, without having good reason to believe that the voter is disqualified by the provisions of the Act, he shall be guilty of an illegal practice within the meaning of the Corrupt and Illegal Practices Act, 1883." He said that he feared an attempt would be made by unscrupulous persons to deter men who were really entitled to vote from voting, under threat of the very heavy penalties imposed by this Bill. There were the admitted cases of men who had more than one qualification, and whose names by an oversight had been left on a list in a constituency in which they had ceased to be qualified. What

  971
  was to prevent an unscrupulous Party agent, who saw a voter who had just moved into the constituency and was going to the poll, from drawing a bow at a venture, and saying, "You are registered in more than one constituency, and as you have made no selection you are not entitled to vote. I have warned you, and if you vote you will be doing it knowingly and with intention to evade the provisions of this statute, the penalty for which is two years hard labour and seven years deprivation of all civil rights?" It might be argued that a good and strong returning officer would not allow that kind of bullying to take place within the polling booth, but there were returning officers of all sorts—many of them not strong men, many, perhaps, not with any great knowledge of election practice, and he thought there would be a real danger of voters actually entitled to a vote being bluffed out of their right to exercise it. But it was on the eve of an election that an agent or canvasser might find that a number of persons who were probably plural voters were hostile to his side, and he might determine to stop their voting. He might go round and say, "You are probably on the register in the place you have removed from. You vote at your peril—if you vote we will prosecute you." It was impossible for them to find out whether they were on the register or not. In that way Party agents might succeed in striking off votes which might have been given against them. The only doubt he had in his mind was whether the penalty he had included was sufficient for the offence, having regard to what the Government considered requisite in other cases. To prevent a man who was entitled to vote from voting was a much graver offence than the one which had been created under this Bill. Under the section which he proposed to import the penalty was £100 fine. If the right hon. Gentleman would put in a heavier penalty he would support him. He begged to move the Amendment stand-in his name on the Paper.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 2, line 29, at end, to insert the words, '(3) If any person attempts to prevent a registered elector from voting by threats of proceedings under this Act, without having good
  972
  reason to believe that the voter is disqualified by the provisions of the Act, he shall be guilty of an illegal practice within the meaning of The Corrupt and Illegal Practices Act, 1883.' "— (Mr. Austen Chamberlain.)
  Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid he agreed with the general view taken by the right hon. Gentleman, and certainly an agent who did a trick like that deserved punishment. But the case was already covered by Section 2 of the Corrupt Practices Act, which provided punishment for restraining voters from voting by fraudulent devices or contrivances and using undue influence. Those were offences punishable by the same penalties which the right hon. Gentleman had suggested. He was under the impression that the section he had quoted dealt with the right hon. Gentleman's case, but if it was thought necessary to take legal opinion upon it he would do so.
  MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid he accepted the right hon. Gentleman's statement of the law entirely, but he was not quite certain that the effect of this section would be the same an the section he proposed in his Amendment. If a vote was challenged he thought the challenger should be bound to show that the voter had voted, and it should not rest with somebody else to show that the challenge was fraudulent. He desired to put the onus of proof upon the man who challenged the vote. If the Solicitor-General would say that that was the effect of the section which the right hon. Gentleman had quoted he was satisfied. If it was not he appealed to the Government to take that line. Surely it was not unreasonable, where some one was trying to prevent a man from exercising a right he was entitled to exercise, to insist that he should show that he had good reasons for challenging the vote.
  SIR W. ROBSONsaid he did not think the Amendment would carry out the purpose the right hon. Gentleman had in view. It was against the principle of our law to put the onus of proof upon a defendant.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid the Amendment was intended to prevent

  973
  people from attempting to stop from voting those who were legitimately entitled to vote at the election. It was only the second part of the sub-section that referred to the prevention of the free exercise of the franchise and the word "attempts" or "threats" did not apply to that part of the section at all. Therefore it was clear that if this Bill was to become law there ought to be some protection against circulars being sent out wholesale on the night before the election pointing out that the Act contained very serious penalties affecting plural voters. It would be admitted that there ought to be some provision to prevent that kind of thing being done, and to prevent electors being interfered with on the eve of the poll. So far as the Amendment made it an offence to send out such a communication as he had described it would only be carrying out the express desires of the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill if the Committee accepted it. He thought they ought to have some further assurance that this very grave difficulty would be adequately met.
  MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid if on the day before the poll an agent suggested to working men electors who had migrated from another district that if they voted they might unconsciously break the law, that would be a fair warning, and it could not be proved that it was intimidation or corruption. He respectfully suggested that the Government should make the Committee fully acquainted with the facts before rashly asserting that a personation agent in the polling booth would not act in the way his right hon. friend had indicated. It might be said that it was intimidation, but it might also be said that the agent or canvasser who gave a voter a warning was only doing his best to see that the law was carried out. The voter taken by surprise would say, "It is quite true; I do not know whether I have a vote in the place I left last year." He did not see how they could get over that. If any way of avoiding that difficulty could be found it ought to be put in the Bill. It was not intimidation or corruption. It was not anything which was touched in my Act of Parliament which had been passed, or any Act which they could pass.
  974
  It was a difficulty, in Ins opinion, inherent in the Bill. He could not see any adequate remedy.
  MR.HARCOURTsaid the Leader of the Opposition had introduced apparently a new question. He reminded the right hon. Gentleman that the real grievance of the working man who moved from one constituency to another was that he was often deprived of his vote anywhere. If the right hon. Gentleman, while he was in office, had done anything to assist in removing that grievance, something might be said for his solicitude for the working man voter now. He thought there would, be very few cases in which the difficulty to which the right hon. Gentleman had referred would arise, and possibly it would never arise at all.
  MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid the question of the qualification of voters had nothing to do with this Bill. He did not see why the right hon. Gentleman should introduce that topic in attempting to deal with a complaint raised by his own friends.
  MR. ARTHUR HENDERSONsincerely hoped that this Amendment would not be disregarded. The right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill seemed to him to treat very lightly the case of the working man plural voter. It was, however, quite a common thing for a working man to be a plural voter. A voter in one constituency removed very often into an adjoining constituency in the month of June, and was most probably left on the old list. The overseer was aware that the voter was entitled to carry his county council vote with him, and therefore put him down in Division 1 of the list. Unless the opposing agent noticed this and took steps to have only the county council vote retained he remained on Division 1 and became a Parliamentary voter for two constituencies. Moreover, it would be to the interest of the opposing agent to leave this man on the register. Hitherto it had been his interest to have him taken off. This was a genuine case and was very prevalent in industrial or mining counties, where the voter from the exigencies of his

  975
  employment might have to remove very frequently. He hoped some change would be made in the Bill which would prevent the possibility of a not too scrupulous agent scaring a voter from exercising the franchise.
  MR. HARCOURTsaid he did not oppose the Amendment because he disagreed with its object, but because he believed the point was dealt with under the present law. He agreed that it was important to prevent agents from intimidating or alarming voters on the night before the poll. If he was not absolutely satisfied that the present law covered it, he would see that words were inserted to meet the point.
  MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid that the right hon. Gentleman had stated that if any gap existed in the situation he would make that gap good; but the right hon. Gentleman could not resist the temptation to have a fling at the Leader of the Opposition, and so he belittled the number of people who were liable to be subject to that intimidation against which the Amendment was directed. He hoped after what had been said by the hon. Member for the Barnard Castle Division, following on speeches delivered from other quarters, the right hon. Gentleman would recognise that there was a very large class for whom this Bill must provide, otherwise a great injustice would be done to them. Of course, the Bill would throw on agents and party organisations a much more complicated task than they had hitherto had; but they could not rely on any party organisation to take up the work which only the Government could do completely. In his own constituency he ventured to say that the Liberal Party made practically no appearance in the registration courts, and took no steps to induce a person to qualify himself to be put on the register. The agent did not, as a rule, challenge any man on the register, because the chances were that four out of five of them would vote for his side. What was the good, therefore, of relying on the party agent to keep the register pure, or to remove from the register a man who had gone into a neighbouring constituency. He hoped the right hon.
  976
  Gentleman in charge of the Bill would meet the case covered by the Amendment, and the case which would be put latter on by the Leader of the Opposition.
  CAPTAIN CRAIGsaid he quite concurred with the hon. Member for the Barnard Castle Division as to the frequency of the cases in which working men were found to be plural voters, because there were large numbers of cases where working men from the shipyards on the Clyde were constantly moving across to Belfast and then returning, and thus being placed on the register in two constituencies. He suggested that the method adopted to avoid that danger should be made as simple as possible, and he considered that the end would be attained if it was made compulsory on the parties to an election to print the necessary warning against the offence of voting in two constituencies on the unofficial election cards sent out to all voters.
  SIR FREDERICK BARBURYthought the suggestion made by the hon. and gallant Member might be given effect to in the schedule, as it was a perfectly good one.
  MR. WALTER LONGsaid that his right hon. friend the Member for East Worcestershire, who had left the House, had told him that he was satisfied with the assurance given by the right hon. Gentleman, and had asked him to withdraw his Amendment.
  Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
  Clause, as amended, agreed to.
  Clause 3:—
  CAPTAIN CRAIGsaid he wished to move the Amendment standing in the name of the hon. Member for South Antrim to omit from the second and third lines of Clause 3, the words "and as respects Ireland under Section 3 of the Parliamentary Registration (Ireland) Act, 1885."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid he could not possibly accept the Amendment.
  Amendment proposed—
  "To leave out the words, 'And as respects Ireland under Section 3 of the Parliamentary Registration (Ireland) Act, 1885'"—
  Amendment negatived.
  MR. COURTHOPEsaid he wished to move the Amendment standing in his name, which, with all due deference, he thought, was not controversial, viz., to leave out from line 39 the words "selecting any constituency as his voting constituency," and insert "whose name appears on the register of more than one constituency."
  MR. HARCOURTsaid, on a point of order, that the point raised by the hon. Gentleman's Amendment had been decided long ago.
  MR. COURTHOPEsaid that he had no recollection of that.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid it had already been decided that a person selecting any constituency as his voting constituency was to be marked.
  MR. RAWLINSONsaid he did not remember the point ever having been raised as to whether some other distinctive mark might not be made.
  Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Clause 3 stand part of the Bill."
  SIR FREDERICK BANBURYsaid he had understood from the right non. Gentleman in charge of the Bill that a person could select his constituency in any way he liked; that was to say, he might send in a sheet of paper, upon which he wrote that he desired, say, to vote at Bristol, and that no question would be raised as to the validity of that selection because the form of selection was not prescribed by the Order in Council. As he read this clause, however, the Order in Council would be paramount and that would over-rule the understanding which had been arrived at with the right hon. Gentleman.
  MR. HARCOURTsaid he had undertaken that the Order in Council should prescribe a form.
  SIR FREDERICK BANBURY: But it is optional?
  MR. HARCOURT: Oh, yes it is quite optional.
  SIR FREDERICK BANBURY: But it is not optional under this clause. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will make it right later on?
  MR. HARCOURT: I will see that it is so. I am responsible for that sort of thing.
  SIR FREDERICK BANBURY: Per haps the right hon. Gentleman is responsible for the first Order in Council, but another Minister may alter it.
  MR. HARCOURT: There is not a word in the Bill which would make the use of the form mandatory.
  SIR WILLIAM BULLcomplained that they had not before them the scheme which was to be included in the Order in Council. Time after time the right hon. Gentleman had taken refuge in the fact that these matters would be alluded to in the Order in Council and had stated that under the Order in Council he would make certain arrangements under which the voter might select any place he chose in which to vote, but it passed the wit of man to see how that could be done. In the course of the discussion they had seen how closely the time was packed from the 15th of July till the 12th of October, and he wished to have an explanation of some of the difficulties which would arise under this Bill. Was the right hon. Gentleman going to have a supplementary list? How could he alter the list when once it had been signed and printed and had become the register coming into effect on the 1st of September? How was the right hon. Gentleman going to deal with the case of a man who had selected a particular vote and that vote had been taken away from him? Throughout the debates on the Bill, those who were interested in registration matters had been hampered very much by not knowing the scheme of the

  979
  right hon. Gentleman. They had had many explanations which were extremely ingenious, but the main difficulty of altering the register after it had been signed seemed to him to be insuperable. The right hon. Gentleman might, it was true, obtain an Order in Council to have a supplementary register, but there were difficulties in the way. It was a question whether the revising barrister would not have to sit again, and he thought that if these selection forms had had to come before the revising barrister as other claims had to come, it would have simplified the procedure of the Bill. If that procedure had been adopted than the register could have been dealt with once for all. He could not understand how this double arrangement by which two persons became responsible for the register was to work, and he could not help thinking that it would very much simplify their dealings with the Bill if the right hon. Gentleman would explain in the slightest degree what he meant to do by his Order in council. He did not know whether the case had been mentioned of two applications being made for one qualification. He had known cases of that sort. How was the clerk to deal with a question of that kind? Was he to decide whether the first or the second man was to be on the register, or was he to refer the question to the revising barrister, or to any other Court? All these points might seem very trivial to those who had not been through registration work, but they would become very real difficulties unless they were dealt with properly by the Order in Council. He very much regretted that the real machinery of the Bill had not been discussed at all during the Committee stage. The right hon. Gentleman had given a splendid description of the way in which he intended to arrange the lobby list, when he suggested the new mode of dividing. He had given a perfect picture of everything that would take place, and Members had hoped that some such descriptive account would be given of what would happen to a man under this Bill. But they had had nothing of the kind, although from time to time they had dragged out certain admissions. But there were a number of perilous questions about which they were still in the dark.
  MR. HARCOURTsaid he had learned so much as he had been able to learn of Parliamentary procedure by sitting under the Gallery and observing the practice of the right hon. Gentleman who at present led the Opposition. He had listened with admiration to the refusals which that right hon. Gentleman had given to produce an Order in Council until a Bill had become an Act of Parliament, and until he knew the shape it would finally assume. That was the procedure which the right hon. Gentleman followed in the case of the Licensing Bill, the complete methods, for the carrying out of which were put in an Order in Council. The right hon. Gentleman also followed that procedure in regard to the Local Government Bill. He thought that those were very good precedents to follow, and following them he could not produce the details of the Order in Council at the present stage. The hon. Member wished to know how alterations in the printed list could be made. Surely an hon. Member who was so well acquainted with registration law must have it in his mind that such alterations were made under the existing law in the case of an appeal in regard to both admission to the list and refusal to admit. There would be no difficulty in adding a very simple indication in the rare cases in which it was necessary.
  R. WALTER LONGsaid that the cases which the right hon. Gentleman had cited, namely, those of the Licensing Act and the Local Government Act, were not exactly parallel with this case. For the first time the right hon. Gentleman was saying to the electors. "You shall only have one vote, no matter how many qualifications you have; you shall select one vote, and if you exercise more than one vote you shall go to prison." All that was asked for was a description of the methods and the machinery which were going to be used in order to carry this out. No doubt the right hon. Gentleman had abundant precedent for not declaring the exact form which the Order in Council would take, but they ought to have at that stage some more indication of how this very complicated machinery was going to work. He did not think

  981
  the right hon. Gentleman had had even from his own followers any support of the attitude he was now taking up, but, on the other hand, he had listened to many criticisms from both sides of the House in regard to it. The right hon. Gentleman ought to indicate what he proposed to do. He must take some further step. If this Bill passed, it was impossible to leave things as they were. They could not alter the law and leave the responsibility upon the three sets of officers he had mentioned. For the first time in this country the possession and exercise of a vote was not a great civic privilege. It meant a grave risk of being sent to prison, not because a man voted who had no right to do so, but because having two votes he had not decided beforehand which he was going to give. If the Government were going to crib, cabin, and confine the privileges of a citizen in this way, they could only do so by promising to place the control in the hands of a Government official. He regretted that the right hon. Gentleman had not been able to give the hon. Member for Hammersmith some assurance on that point. The Government would find that they were enacting under this Bill, if they left it where it was, a law which would make the exercise of the privilege of voting not only much more difficult than it was at present, but a privilege attended by so many disadvantages that they would be regarded by the people as more than counterbalancing the advantages of the franchise.
  *MR. FELLsaid the Order in Council was to proscribe the manner in which the name of a person selecting any constituency as his voting constituency was to be marked on the register. He did not think if the name was simply to be starred that such an elaborate provision as an Order in Council was required. It looked to him as if some other particulars were to be placed on the register in addition to the starring. But what those conditions were it was impossible to say till they saw the Order in Council. He was convinced himself that money spent on careful preparation of the register in the first instance would save a larger expenditure afterwards. If the register was made up by the proper
  982
  officer at the time it would in all probability save its being made up three times over and £1 spent on the preparation of the register would save £3 afterwards.
  R. H. H. MARKSsuggested that the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill could facilitate proceedings at this stage without much inconvenience to himself and with great convenience to the Committee if he could sketch in a few sentences how the difficulties raised were to be dealt with in the Order in Council. It was a pity that the want of this information should be allowed to stand in the way of further progress being made with the Bill.
  R. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDpointed out that the only mark contemplated in the clause was a mark upon the register of the constituency the voter had selected. He suggested that a mark should also be put upon the register upon which the voter had not selected to vote.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid that point had already been decided.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid that the only mark contemplated in Clause 3 was a mark on the register of the constituency selected. That would have the effect that for the first time in practice the register would not be conclusive of the voters entitled to vote. Every one knew that at the time of an election many people came up and said, "Am I entitled to vote," and the register was referred to, and if the name appeared in the register without a mark they were told "Yes."
  THE CHAIRMANsaid the hon. Member was trying to transgress his ruling.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDsaid he was only desirous of pointing out that now for the first time a register marked in this way would not be conclusive of the number of people entitled to vote.
  Question put.
  The Committee divided:—Ayes, 299 Noes, 60. (Division List NO. 351.)

  Parker, James Halifax

  Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

  Waldron, Laurence Ambrose

  Partington, Oswald

  Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

  Walsh, Stephen

  Paul, Herbert

  Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

  Walters, John Tudor

  Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)

  Scott, A.H(Ashton under Lyne)

  Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)

  Pearce, William (Limehouse)

  Sears, J. E.

  Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

  Philipps, Col.Ivor(S'thampton)

  Seely, Major J. B.

  Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)

  Pickersgill, Edward Hare

  Shackleton, David James

  Ward,W.Dudley(Southampt'n)

  Pirie, Duncan V.

  Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.)

  Wardle, George J.

  Pollard, Dr.

  Shipman, Dr. John G.

  Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)

  Price, C.E.(Edinburgh,Central

  Simon, John Allsebrook

  Waterlow, D. S.

  Radford, G. H.

  Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

  Watt, H. Anderson

  Rainy, A. Rolland

  Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)

  Wedgwood, Josiah C.

  Raphael, Herbert H.

  Snowdon, P.

  Weir, James Galloway

  Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

  Soares, Ernest J.

  White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

  Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro')

  Stanger, H. Y.

  White, Luke (York, E. R.)

  Redmond, John E. (Waterford)

  Stanley, Hn.A.Lyulph (Chesh.)

  White. Patrick (Meath, North)

  Redmond, William (Clare)

  Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

  Whitehead, Rowland

  Rees, J. D.

  Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

  Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

  Rendall, Athelstan

  Strachey, Sir Edward

  Wiles, Thomas

  Richards, Thos. W. (Monm'th.)

  Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)

  Williams, J. (Glamorgan)

  Richardson,A.

  Stuart, James (Sunderland)

  Williams.Llewelyn (Carmarth)

  Rickett, J. Compton

  Sullivan, Donal

  Williamson, A.

  Ridsdale, E. A.

  Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

  Wills, Arthur Walters

  Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

  Taylor, John W. (Durham)

  Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)

  Robertson, Rt.Hn.E. (Dundee)

  Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

  Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

  Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

  Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)

  Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

  Robinson, S.

  Thomas, SirA. (Glamorgan, E.)

  Wood, T. M'Kinnon

  Robson, Sir William Snowdon

  Thomas. David Alfred (Merthyr)

  Woodhouse, Sir J.T.(Huddersfd

  Roe, Sir Thomas

  Thompson, J. W.H.(Somerset,E

  Young, Samuel

  Rogers, F. E. Newman

  Tomkinson, James

  Yoxall, James Henry

  Rose, Charles Day

  Torrance, Sir A. M.

  Rowlands, J.

  Toulmin, George

  TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.

  Runciman, Walter

  Trevelyan, Charles Philips

  Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

  Wadsworth, J.

  NOES.

  Acland-Hood.RtHn SirAlexF.

  Doughty, Sir George

  Roberts, S. (Sheffield.Ecclesall)

  Ashley, W. W.

  Fell, Arthur

  Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

  Balcarres, Lord

  Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

  Salter, Arthur Clavell

  Banbury, Sir Frederick George

  Forster, Henry William

  Smith, F.E.(Liverpool,Walton)

  Banner, John S. Harmood-

  Hardy,Laurence(Kent, Ashford)

  Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

  Barrie, H.T. (Londonderry, N.)

  Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

  Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.)

  Beckett, Hon. Gervase

  Hay, Hon. Claude George

  Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

  Boyle, Sir Edward

  Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

  Thomson, W.Mitchell-(Lanark)

  Bull, Sir William James

  Houston, Robert Paterson

  Thornton, Percy M.

  Butcher, Samuel Henry

  Kennaway, Rt.Hn.Sir John H.

  Turnour, Viscount

  Carlile, E. Hildred

  Lane-Fox, G. R.

  Valentia, Viscount

  Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

  Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich)

  Walker, Col. W.H.(Lancashire)

  Castlereagh, Viscount

  Long,Rt.Hn.Walter(Dublin,S.)

  Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid)

  Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

  Lowe, Sir Francis William

  Wilson, A.Stanley(York, E.R.)

  Chamberlain, Rt.Hn.J.A.(Wore

  Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred

  Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

  Coates, E.Fectham (Lewisham)

  McCalmont, Colonel James

  Younger, George

  Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

  Magnus, Sir Philip

  Collings.Rt. Hu.J.(Birmingh'm

  Muntz, Sir Philip A.

  TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Watson Rutherford and Mr. H. H. Marks.

  Courthope, G. Loyd

  Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington)

  Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

  Powell, Sir Francis Sharp

  Craik, Sir Henry

  Randies, Sir John Scurrah

  Dalrymple, Viscount

  Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel

  Clause 4: —
  THE CHAIRMANsaid all the Amendments on the Paper to Clause 4 were out of order.
  Motion, made and Question proposed, "That Clause 4 stand part of the Bill."
  MR. FELLsaid there were certain constituencies in which some exceptions might be made, such, for instance, as the City of London, which was the centre of the commercial world. Practically the whole of those who had votes in the City resided out of it, the business demands upon the

  987
  space there being so great that land was not available for residential purposes, and it would be ridiculous if they attempted to force people who had offices in the City to reside there.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid he could not see how the hon. Member's remarks had anything to do with the question that Clause 4 stand part of the Bill.
  MR. FELLsaid he was trying to discuss the differences between this exceptional constituency and others.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid there were 670 constituencies, and it would certainly not be in order to discuss all their circumstances. If the position of the City of London was to be raised it should have been on Clause 1.
  MR. CHARLES CRAIGsaid it seemed to him that before they passed Clause 4 they should have some explanation from the hon. right Gentleman in charge of the Bill as to the necessity of the clause. It had been pointed out continuously that the Bill had been framed on the principle of legislation by reference. He felt sure, therefore, that

  AYES.

  Abraham, Win. (Cork. N.E.)

  Boland, John

  Cobbold, Felix Thornley

  Abraham, William (Rhondda)

  Bolton, T.D.(Derbyshire, N.E.)

  Collins, SirWm.J.(S.Pancras,W

  Acland, Francis Dyke

  Bottomley, Horatio

  Cooper, G. J.

  Ainsworth, John Stirling

  Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey)

  Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)

  Alden, Percy

  Bowerman, C. W.

  Corbett C.H (Sussex,E.Grinst'd

  Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

  Brace, William

  Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

  Ashton, Thomas Gair

  Bramsdon, T. A.

  Cotton. Sir H. J. S.

  Astbury, John Meir

  Branch, James

  Cox, Harold

  Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

  Brigg, John

  Cremer. William Randal

  Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

  Bright, J. A.

  Crosfield. A. H.

  Barker, John

  Brocklehurst, W. B.

  Dalziel, James Henry

  Barlow, JohnEmmott(Somers't

  Brunner, J.F.L.(Lanes., Leigh)

  Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

  Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

  Brunner, Rt.HnSirJ.T.(Chesh.)

  Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

  Barnard, E. B.

  Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs)

  Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

  Barran, Rowland Hirst

  Buckmaster, Stanley O.

  Delany, William

  Beale, W. P.

  Burns, Rt. Hon. John

  Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

  Beauchamp, E.

  Burnyeat, W. J. D.

  Dickinson,W.H.(St.Pancras, N.

  Beaumont,Hn. W.C. B.(Hexh'm

  Buxton, Rt.Hon. Sydney Chas.

  Duckworth. James

  Beck, A. Cecil

  Byles, William Pollard

  Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness)

  Bell, Richard

  Campbel-.Bannerman, Sir H.

  Duncan. J. H. (York. Otley)

  Bellairs, Carlyon

  Carr-Gomm, H. W.

  Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

  Belloc, Hilarie Joseph Peter R.

  Cawley, Frederick

  Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

  Benn,Sir J.Williams(Devonp'rt

  Cheetham, John Frederick

  Edwards, Frank (Radnor)

  Benn, W.(T'w'rH'mlets, S.Geo.

  Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.

  Elibank, Master of

  Berridge, T. H. D.

  Clarke, C. Goddard

  Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward

  Bethell, J. H. (Essex,Romford)

  Cleland, J. W.

  Erskine, David C.

  Billson, Alfred

  Clough, W.

  Esmonde, Sir Thomas

  Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine

  Clynes, J.R.

  Eve, Harry Trelawney

  Black, Arthur W. (Bedf'rdshire)

  Coats, SirT.Glen(Renfrew, W.)

  Everett, R. Lacey

  the word "constituency" must have been already defined in previous Bills dealing with the same subject. Therefore, this clause was superfluous and should left out.
  SIR W. ROBSONsaid it was a somewhat curious circumstance that the word "constituency" had not been defined in previous legislation of this character. In Registration and Electorate Acts the words used were—
  "The county or borough returning a Member for Parliament."
  Therefore it was essential that the word should be defined.
  VISCOUNT TURNOURsaid after the remarks of the hon. and learned Gentleman he saw no reason why the old arrangement should not be stuck to, and therefore thought this clause was more superfluous than ever.
  Question put.
  The Committee divided:—Ayes, 309; Noes, 66. (Division List No. 352.)

  Faber, G. H. (Boston)

  Macdonald,J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs

  Ridsdale, E. A.

  Fenwick, Charles

  Maclean, Donald

  Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

  Ferens, T. R.

  Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.

  Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

  Field, William

  MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down.S.)

  Robinson, S.

  Flynn, James Christopher

  MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.)

  Robson, Sir William Snowdon

  Freeman-Thomas, Freeman

  McCrae, George

  Roe, Sir Thomas

  Fuller, John Michael F.

  McKenna, Reginald

  Rogers, F. E. Newman

  Fullerton, Hugh

  McKillop, W.

  Rose, Charles Day

  Gibb, James (Harrow)

  McMicking, Major G.

  Rowlands. J.

  Gill, A. H.

  Maddison, Frederick

  Runciman, Walter

  Gladstone, Rt.Hn.HerbertJohn

  Mallet, Charles E.

  Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

  Glover, Thomas

  Manfield, Harry (Northants)

  Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

  Grant, Corrie

  Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln

  Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

  Greenwood, G. (Peterborough

  Markham, Arthur Basil

  Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

  Greenwood, Hamar (York)

  Marks.G.Croydon (Launceston

  Scott,A.H. (Ashton -under Lyne

  Gulland, John W.

  Massie, J.

  Sears, J. E.

  Hall, Frederick

  Masterman, C. F. G.

  Seely, Major J. B.

  Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis

  Meagher, Michael

  Shackleton, David James

  Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'J

  Menzies, Walter

  Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)

  Hart-Davies, T.

  Micklem, Nathaniel

  Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.)

  Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)

  Money, L. G. Chiozza

  Shipman, Dr. John G.

  Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

  Montagu, E. S.

  Simon, John Allsobrook

  Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)

  Mooney, J. J.

  Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

  Haworth, Arthur A.

  Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)

  Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)

  Hedges, A. Paget

  Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen

  Snowdon, P.

  Helme, Norval Watson

  Morrell, Philip

  Soares, Ernest J.

  Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

  Morse, L. L.

  Stanger, H. Y.

  Henry, Charles S.

  Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

  Stanley, Hn.A.Lyulph (Chesh.)

  Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.)

  Murnaghan, George

  Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

  Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe

  Murphy, John

  Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

  Higham, John Sharp

  Murray, James

  Strachey, Sir Edward

  Hobart, Sir Robert

  Myer, Horatio

  Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)

  Hogan, Michael

  Nannetti, Joseph P.

  Stuart, James (Sunderland)

  Holden, E. Hopkinson

  Napier, T. B.

  Sullivan, Donal

  Holland, Sir William Henry

  Nieholls, George

  Summerbell, T.

  Hooper, A. G.

  Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r;

  Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)

  Horniman, Emslie John

  Nolan, Joseph

  Taylor, John W. (Durham)

  Horridge, Thomas Gardner

  Norton, Capt. Cecil William

  Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

  Hudson, Walter

  Nussev, Thomas Willans

  Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)

  Hutton, Alfred Eddison

  Nuttall, Harry

  Thomas, Sir A.(Glamorgan, E.)

  Hyde, Clarendon

  O'Brien, Kendal (TipperaryMid

  Thomas.David Alfred(Merthyr)

  Idris, T. H. W.

  O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

  Thompson, J.W.H.(Somerset,E

  Isaacs, Rufus Daniel

  O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.)

  Tomkinson, James

  Jackson, R. S.

  O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

  Torrance, Sir A. M.

  Jacoby, James Alfred

  O'Doherty, Philip

  Toulmin, George

  Jenkins, J.

  O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)

  Trevelyan, Charles Philips

  Johnson, W. (Nuneaton)

  O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon, N.)

  Wadsworth, J.

  Jones, Sir.D.Brynmor(Swansea

  O'Malley, William

  Waldron, Laurence Ambrose

  Jones, Leif (Appleby)

  O'Mara, James

  Walsh, Stephen

  Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

  O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

  Walters, John Tudor

  Jowett, F. W.

  Parker, James (Halifax)

  Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)

  Joyce, Michael

  Partington, Oswald

  Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)

  Kearley, Hudson E.

  Paul, Herbert

  Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent)

  Kekewich, Sir George

  Pearce, Robert (Staffs., Leek)

  Ward, W.Dudley(Southampton

  Kelley, George D.

  Pearce, William (Limehouse)

  Wardle, George J.

  Kincaid-Smith, Captain

  Philipps, Col.Ivor(S'thampton)

  Wason, JohnCathcart(Orkmney)

  King. Alfred John (Knutsford)

  Pickersgill, Edward Hare

  Waterlow, D. S.

  Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James

  Pirie, Duncan V.

  Watt, H. Anderson

  Laidlaw, Robert

  Pollard, Dr.

  Wedgwood, Josiah C.

  Lamb.Edmund G.(Leominster)

  Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh.Central)

  Weir, James Galloway

  Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

  Radford, G. H.

  White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

  Lambert, George

  Rainy, A. Rolland

  White, Luke (York, E. R.)

  Lamont, Norman

  Raphael, Herbert H.

  White, Patrick (Meath, North)

  Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

  Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

  Whitehead, Rowland

  Layland-Barratt, Francis

  Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro')

  Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

  Lehmann. R. C

  Redmond, John E. (Waterford)

  Wiles, Thomas

  Lever, A.Levy(Essex,Harwich)

  Redmond, William (Clare)

  Williams, J. (Glamorgan)

  Levy, Maurice

  Rees, J. D.

  Williams,Llewelyn(Carmarthn)

  Lewis, John Herbert

  Rendall, Athelstan

  Williamson, A.

  Lundon, W.

  Richards, Thos. (W. Monrn'th)

  Wills, Arthur Walters

  Lyell, Charles Henry

  Richardson, A.

  Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull.W.)

  Lynch, H. B.

  Rickett, J. Compton

  Wilson, Henry J.(York, W. R.)

  990

  991

  Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

  Woodhouse,SirJ.T.(Huddersf'd

  TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.

  Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

  Young, Samuel

  Wood, T. M'Kinnon

  Yoxall, James Henry

  NOES.

  Acland-Hood.Rt.Hn SirAlex.F

  Craik, Sir Henry

  Powell, Sir Francis Sharp.

  Ashley, W. W.

  Dalrymple, Viscount

  Randles, Sir John Scurrah

  Balcarres, Lord

  Doughty, Sir George

  Rawlinson, JohnFrederickPeel

  Banbury, Sir Frederick George

  Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

  Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

  Batmer, John S. Harmood-

  Forster, Henry William

  Rutherford,W. W. (Liverpool

  Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester)

  Hamilton, Marquess of

  Salter, Arthur Clavell

  Barrie, H. T. (Londonderry.N.)

  Hardy, Laurence(Kent,Ashford

  Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East

  Beckett, Hon. Gervase

  Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B.

  Smith, F. E(Liverp'l,Walton)

  Boyle, Sir Edward

  Hay, Hon. Claude George

  Staveley-Hill, Henry (Staff'sh.)

  Butcher, Samuel Henry

  Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury)

  Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

  Carlile, E. Hildred

  Houston, Robert Paterson

  Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark

  Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

  Kennaway.Rt.Hn.sir John H.

  Thornton, Percy M.

  Castlereagh, Viscount

  Lambton, Hon. Frederick W.

  Turnour, Viscount

  Cave, George

  Lane-Fox, G. R.

  Valentia, Viscount

  Cavendish, Rt. Hn.Victor C.W.

  Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich)

  Walker, Col. W. H.(Lancashire

  Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

  Long, Rt.Hn.Walter(Dublin,S.

  Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid)

  Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

  Lowe, Sir Francis William

  Wilson, A.Stanlev(York, E. R.)

  Coates, E.Feetham(Lewisham)

  Lyttelton, Rt. Hou. Alfred

  Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm

  Cochrane. Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

  McCalmont, Colonel James

  Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George

  Collings,Rt Hn, J.(Birm'Bh'm)

  Magnus, Sir Philip

  Younger, George

  Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

  Marks, H. H. (Kent)

  Courthope, G. Loyd

  Parker, SirGilbert(Gravesend)

  TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir William Bull and Mr. Fell.

  Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

  Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlingt'n

  On Clause 5:—
  *MR. GULLAND*MR. GULLAND(Dumfries Burghs) moved an Amendment to leave out all the words of the first sub-section after "Act." He said the Amendment was a friendly one, prompted by a desire to make the Bill work so smoothly that it would be a great success. The necessity for the Amendment was due to the fact that the register in Scotland operated for a different period from the English register. The Scottish register came into operation on 1st November, and ended on 31st October and in that respect, as in a good many other respects, was a great deal better than the English register because it came into operation two months earlier. According to the clause—
  "The Secretary for Scotland may issue instructions for any purpose for which an Order in Council may be made under this Act, and may also issue any instructions which are rendered necessary by the fact that the currency of the Parliamentary register in Scotland does not coincide with the calendar year, including instructions for prescribing some special manner in which the name of a person is to be marked on the register whose notice of selection does not take effect till the first day of January succeeding the day on which the register comes into force, or whose notice of selection ceases to operate on the said first day of January."
  992
  It seemed to him that this would cause a great deal of complication in connection with the Scottish register, and it was a complication which, he thought, could be avoided. During the first year or two under the new system he expected that there would be a good deal of change of selection. He wished to point out how the Bill would work in regard to Scotland. If a man happened to have qualification in the burgh of Dumfries, and also in the county—two separate constituencies— on the roll which came into force on 1st November, 1907, he would be entitled to vote in both constituencies until 31st December, 1907, though previous to 1st September he had selected to vote in the burgh. On the burgh register he would be marked in some special way, with, for instance, the letter S, which meant during the calendar year 1908. But the elector found that he wished to transfer his selection for the following year, 1909, to the county, and now it was that all the complication came in. His name appeared on the new burgh register with some other mark than the simple S—some such mark as S.N.D., indicating that during November and December he desired to vote in the burgh. Then in the county register he

  993
  must be marked S.J.O., showing that his vote there did not apply until 1st January. The letters J.O. would mean January to October, and in that way the presiding officer would know that his vote did not come into operation until 1st January. Before 1st September, perhaps, he wished to go back to the burgh, or to select some other constituency, but he could not sever himself until 31st December, and the county register must bear opposite his name S.N.D., showing that he continued to vote there until the beginning of January. He submitted that this was a very confusing state of matters. It was confusing to the sheriff-clerk who had to affix to his name the signification, it was confusing to the voter himself, and it was confusing to the officer presiding at the election. There was no necessity for this confusion, as there was no reason why the English method should be superimposed on the Scottish register. He submitted that the Scottish voter ought to be able to make his selection not for the calendar year, but for the currency of the Scottish Parliamentary register from 1st November to 31st October.
  *THE CHAIRMAN: Now that I understand the hon. Member, I think he is proposing a change from the calendar year for Scotland. That is something quite different from the Amendment; it contravenes what is already decided, and, therefore, it is not in order.
  *MR. GULLAND: I was trying to show that Clause 5 should be left out and that there should be another system with regard to Scotland.
  *THE CHAIRMAN: What the hon. Member was trying to do was to show that something required to be done which would necessitate an alteration in Clause 1, and that cannot be altered at this stage.
  MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONasked whether the clause did not say that the Secretary for Scotland was to be empowered to make alterations which were rendered necessary by the fact that the currency of the Parliamentary register in Scotland did not coincide with the calendar year.
  *THE CHAIRMAN: The Secretary for Scotland is empowered to make alterations with regard to Scotland. The point which the hon. Member for the Dumfries Burghs was making was clearly out of order.
  VISCOUNT TURNOUR: Do I understand that your ruling is that the Amendment is not in order?
  THE CHAIRMAN: If the hon. Member desires to move an Amendment he must use arguments which are in order.
  MR. PIRIEasked whether there would be no opportunity for Scottish Members to suggest alterations in the Bill.
  MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONasked whether it would be in order if he moved the Amendment.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid it would be in order.
  MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONthen moved the Amendment. On the First Reading of the Bill the First Commissioner of Works said he would make provision to meet this difficulty in regard to Scotland. They ought to move this Amendment in order to ask the right hon. Gentleman what provision he contemplated making to fulfil the promise he had given to the House. It was not enough to tell them the Secretary for Scotland was to be empowered to issue instructions for any purpose for which an Order in Council might be made under this Act.
  Amendment proposed—
  "In page 3, line 13, to leave out from the word 'Act' to the end of the sub-section."— (Mr. Mitchell-Thompson.)
  Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out to the word 'including,' in line 16, stand part of the clause."
  *MR. GULLANDsaid he had endeavoured to show how this Bill, excellent in regard to England, would, in his judgment, not be satisfactory with regard to Scotland. In the majority of these cases

  995
  in England it was a question of selection as between one constituency and another, and there would be no trouble at all. But if a man made his selection in Scotland it should be in respect of the Scottish Parliamentary register which ran from 1st November to 31st October, and not in respect of the calendar year, as was the case in England.
  THE CHAIRMAN: I am afraid the hon. Member is not in order in making that proposal. Clause 1, Sub-section (1) says—
  "A person registered as a Parliamentary elector in more than one constituency shall not vote as such, or ask for a ballot or voting paper for the purpose of so voting during any calendar year after the year nineteen hundred and seven…"
  Clause 5 says—
  "The Secretary for Scotland may issue instructions for any purpose for which an Order in Council may be made under this Act, and may also issue any instructions which are rendered necessary by the fact that the currency of the Parliamentary register in Scotland does not coincide with the calendar year …"
  That is quite a different point from what the hon. Member was recommending, namely, that the Bill really should be altered to suit the case of the Scottish register.
  *MR. GULLANDsaid in his judgment the Secretary for Scotland should not have put upon him the duty of issuing instructions as to the method in which this difficulty should be dealt with. The particular method in which it should be dealt with should be laid down in the Bill. So far as Scotland was concerned, the expression "the currency of the Parliamentary register" should be substituted for "any calendar year," provided that no person should be entitled to record a vote both in a constituency in England or Ireland and in a constituency in Scotland during the same calendar year.
  SIR HENRY CRAIKasked the Committee to notice the position in which the Scottish Members were placed. It was admitted by the right hon. Gentleman that the position created in Scotland was somewhat peculiar, and that it required special treatment. They now asked how this special treatment was to be carried
  996
  out, and they were given no explanation. Not only that, but instead of those regulations being laid down by an Order in Council, they were to be laid down by the instructions of the Secretary for Scotland. He was not aware that Orders in Council did not run in Scotland as well as in England and Ireland. He was well aware, on the contrary, that Orders in Council were a very usual and constant method of doing business in Scotland Why was procedure under this Bill to be different from that under any other Bill? Regulations which, it was admitted by the right hon. Gentleman, required particular consideration had not been explained to the Committee down to the present moment; but the framing of them was to be handed over to the Secretary for Scotland. He was proud to support the hon. Member opposite, who had detailed with great skill and force the difficulties which would arise under this clause.
  THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. THOMAS SHAW,)said he was far from making any pretence to the Committee that considerable difficulties would not arise out of the fact that the register in Scotland ran from 1st November to 1st November, and in England from 1st January to 1st January. The position of the Committee was that it had affirmed under Section 1 that the selection process must be at the beginning of the calendar year, that was to say, 1st January; and the endeavour was to bring the Scottish procedure into line with that decision. What was proposed to be done by his hon. friend's proposal was a very simple operation viz., that the calendar year should run as the register year. But he would point out that that would be contrary to what had been affirmed by Section 1, and would operate unjustly, which he was quite sure his hon. friend would deplore. A man having qualifications in both England and Scotland might make his selection on 1st September to vote in Scotland, getting leave to vote, say, from 1st November, 1906, to 1st November, 1907. In the course of the year if he changed his mind and proposed to go to England to vote, and intimated his intention on 1st November, he would find, as the result that he had lost his Scottish vote

  997
  for 1907 and would not get his English vote until the following year. In a proposal of his hon. friend the vote would be lost for two months. The only safe course was to stick to the calendar year, under which there would be no disfranchisement of either Scotsmen or Englishmen. All that the clause provided for was a special marking of the register which would give the man the right to vote continuously within the United Kingdom.
  MR. WALTER LONGsaid he wished to congratulate the Government upon the result which had followed the first appearance of one of their own supporters speaking in support of the Bill, but introducing an Amendment which would make the Bill work more smoothly. The Lord-Advocate had told them that an English man, if he chanced to cross the border, would lose his vote, but they had not heard what would become of the Scottish voter who crossed the border into England. Hon. Gentlemen who were familiar with Acts of Parliament knew that it was not unusual to introduce what was known as the Henry the Eighth Clause, which enabled the Government to make a Bill operate if in it there were found certain inaccuracies. But there was never an Henry the Eighth Clause more complete or drastic than that which gave to all concerned this unlimited power to make the Scottish system conform to a clause which had been adopted in regard to England, but which, as it stood, would produce confusion in Scotland. Up to now he had thought Englishmen entitled to the sympathy of their fellow citizens in connection with this Bill. He now realised that the unfortunate Scotsmen received even worse treatment at the hands of their friends. He thought that bad as the treatment which we in this country had received at the hands of the Government our Scottish fellow citizens had received even worse treatment from their own friends.
  MR. COURTHOPEsaid the arguments which the Lord-Advocate had used were very thin indeed. He should certainly support the Amendment if his hon. friend went to a division.
  SIR E. CARSONsaid he had considerable sympathy with the voter who had to search through an Act of Parliament and then go to the Gazette in order to see if he had a vote or not.
  MR. CHARLES CRAIGthought the Committee should seriously consider the position. He submitted that this method of legislating by reference had been carried altogether to too great a length. Here they had a point which the Lord Advocate had admitted was one of the greatest difficulty. Apparently it had puzzled both himself and his colleagues on the Treasury Bench and then it was to be referred to the Secretary for Scotland.
  THE CHAIRMANdid not think the hon. Member was in order. He must speak to the question before the Committee.
  MR. CHARLES CRAIGsaid he was addressing an argument to the Committee in order to show that the section as it stood was unworkable and was bad in many respects.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid that that had nothing to do with the Amendment.
  SIR E. CARSONthought that they were entitled to some explanation.
  MR. THOMAS SHAWsaid that the Orders which were consequential upon the statute would be given effect to by statutory rules and forms. A point had been taken as to the dilemma in which the English voter would find himself, but he was completely covered and kept right by the operation of the first clause, which so far as he was concerned gave him no trouble, but having within the current year selected where he would vote he could vote nowhere else. He hoped that the Committee would not understand from anything which had been said that he suggested for a moment that the Scottish system was in any respect defective even when compared with the English system. He had a very

  999
  strong opinion that a reform on this subject was due under which the English system would be brought up to the sensible Scottish system of the 1st of November, and under which the new register would be made available south of the Tweed as it was north of the Tweed for the municipal elections. They did not intend to bring in any Bill on the subject, but he would say that there was no grounds for saying that a certain portion of the constituency would be disfranchised.
  MR. WYNDHAMsaid he did not wish to retort upon the Lord-Advocate. This was not a question between England and Scotland at all, and perhaps the latter had the better system. But all the Members of the House, whether sitting for English, Irish, or Scottish constituencies, were sitting there under the same rules and under a similar system of references, and they were all there as Members for definite constituencies. Now, however, it was suggested for the first time that the Secretary for Scotland was to lay down rules or regulations as to the particular way in which any Scottish or English Member was to sit in the House of Commons. The Government by saying that they were to sit there under an Order in Council under a new reform Bill which for the first time merely took votes away were committing an outrage upon the traditions and the debates of the House.
  *MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONasked the Lord Advocate what he meant when he said that they were to make their procedure in Scotland conform with the system which had been laid down in sub-section (1) of Section 1. Did he mean by that, that in fact and in practice the currency of the Scottish register would not be still from the 1st of November to the 1st of November, but from the 1st of January to the 1st of January, and, if so, he wished further to ask the First Commissioner of Works whether this was the "slight alteration" to which he alluded at an earlier stage of the debates.
  MR. HARMOOD-BANNERsaid there was one remark
  1000
  of the hon. Member's that attracted his particular attention, and that was that the English voter was captured and kept right by the penalties of Clause 1. He wanted to know whether the Scottish voter was to be captured and kept right by the same penalties.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid this had nothing to do with the clause.
  MR. HARMOOD-BANNERsaid that they wished to know whether the Lord-Advocate had power under this instruction to alter this rule as regards punishments, because it was most important to know whether Englishmen and Irishmen were to be treated worse than Scotsmen under this Act.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid that question did not arise.
  MR. PIRIEsaid as a Scottish Member it was the duty of the Scottish Members to protest against these matters being dealt with by means of instructions to be issued by the Secretary for Scotland. He urged the Government to reconsider this matter and give some assurance that they would make some statement with regard to it on the Report stage of the Bill.
  THE CHAIRMANsaid he wished that hon. Members would speak to the Question. The actual Question was that all the words after the word "Act" in page 3, line 13, should be struck out. That was the only Question before the Committee.
  LORD R. CECILthanked the Chairman for his observations which he thought had cleared the air very considerably. The question he wished to put as an Englishman, slightly confused by the elaborate explanations given by Scottish Members, although no doubt those explanations were perfectly intelligible to them, was this. He wanted to know whether they would have, and he really thought they ought to, some description of the nature of these instructions. There was something in addition.

  1001
  to the powers given in England, because the first three lines of the clause gave the Secretary for Scotland all the powers given to England. He did not in the least understand what the nature of these instructions could be unless it was in some way to modify the first clause of the Bill. It had been ruled that no modification could now be made, even by this Committee, in Clause I. and were they now to rule that the Secretary for Scotland upon his own ipse dixit could do what this House could not?
  MR. COURTHOPEthought that the Lord-Advocate had made a mistake when he said that he hoped the time would shortly come when the register would come into force south of the Tweed at the same time as north of the Tweed, namely, on the 1st of November. It did so now.
  MR. WILLIAM RUTHERFORDdid not agree with his hon, friends around him, because the situation disclosed by reading the first section in connexion with Clause 5 showed that the question was exceedingly complicated. But he thought that the procedure adopted by the Government was not an improvement of the electoral law, and that the selection must be for the calendar year. It was obvious that they would have to wait for the further instructions, and he could quite conceive that those instructions would have to give the Scottish voter the same amount of selection, namely, for the whole year, as the English voter was to have. The confusion would be considerable. Supposing a man to be on the register in Scotland from 1st November to 31st October, for one place, and supposing he knew he was going to lose that qualification, he would still want to vote for it if the election took place any time before October. He might want to exercise his legitimate right of selection for the whole twelve months, and the result
  1002
  would be that he would have to send in a notice of selection not of one constituency but of two constituencies. It was a very complicated matter and he would impress upon the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill that he should make some explicit statement as to the instructions to be given.
  SIR FREDERICK BANBURYsaid if the Secretary for Scotland was to be given authority to make regulations as to how Members were to be returned to this House his desire was to vote against the retention of these words. But in that case he would be supporting a state of things by which a person having a vote in England and also in Scotland would either be disfranchised for two months or have two votes for two months. Being in this dilemma his only safe course was to vote against the Government.
  SIR E. CARSONsaid that the question was whether the Committee was prepared to give the Secretary for Scotland powers, not only to put the Act into force, but to repeal former Acts as to the calendar year. That was going beyond what had ever been done by Order in Council, and he hoped the Lord-Advocate would consider it a point worthy of consideration.
  MR. THOMAS SHAWsaid that under no possible circumstances did the Government desire or intend to give to the Secretary for Scotland any power beyond the actual provisions of the Act. The real object of the latter part of the section was to provide for the discrepancy between the close of the register of one country and the close of the register in the other. Instructions would be issued which were rendered necessary by the fact that the currency of the Parliamentary register in Scotland did not coincide with the calendar year. The necessity of bringing these into line was the oily reason the section had been drawn in this form.
  MR. DALZIELsaid it appeared to him that what were, after all, points of very small magnitude were being raised to the importance of a great constitutional question. He was sorry he could not altogether agree with some of his hon. friends on this question, because so far as he understood the point before the Committee it was to a large extent whether they would or would not give to the Secretary for Scotland the control of Scottish affairs. He maintained that in giving the Secretary for Scotland power, which so far as England was concerned would be contained in an Order in Council, they were carrying out the legitimate object of this Bill. The proposal was only a question of machinery. The situation in Scotland was different from that in England, and they were bound to leave a certain discretion and a certain administrative power in the way of machinery in the hands of their executive officer in order to carry the Act into force, and the most responsible officer in this case was undoubtedly the Secretary for Scotland, who was answerable to this House, He did not think that any Secretary for Scotland would be likely to go outside the four corners of the Bill, and they had no alternative but to leave this matter in his hands.
  LORD TURNOURthought the Secretary for Scotland ought to give an answer to this point, seeing that the question was immediately connected

  AYES.

  Abraham, Wm. (Cork. N.E.)

  Barran, Rowland Hirst

  Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire

  Abraham, William (Rhondda)

  Beale, W. P.

  Boland, John

  Acland, Francis Dyke

  Beauchamp, E.

  Bolton, TD.(Derbyshire, N.E.)

  Ainsworth, John Stirling

  Beaumont, Hn. H.(Eastbourne

  Bottomley, Horatio

  Alden, Percy

  Beaumont, Hn.W.C.B.(Hexham

  Boulton. A. C. F. (Ramsey)

  Allen, Charles P. (Stroud)

  Beck, A. Cecil

  Bowerman, C.W.

  Ashton, Thomas Gair

  Bell, Richard

  Brace, William

  Asquith, Rt.Hn.Herbert Henry

  Bellairs, Carlyon

  Bramsdon, T. A.

  Astbury, John Meir

  Benn, SirJ.Williams(Devonp'rt

  Branch, James

  Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth)

  Benn, W.(T'w'rH'mlets, S.Geo.

  Brigg, John

  Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight)

  Berridge, T. H. D.

  Bright, J. A.

  Barker, John

  Bertram, Julius

  Brocklehurst, W. B.

  Barlow, JohnEmmott(Somerset

  Bethell, J.H. (Essex, Romford)

  Brodie, H. C.

  Barlow, Percy (Bedford)

  Billson, Alfred

  Brooke, Stopford

  Barnard, E. B.

  Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine

  Brunner, J.F.L.(Lancs., Leigh

  with his department. Everything that was possible had been done for him during the recess, and his prompters were sitting not twenty yards away, and under those circumstances one would have thought that it would have been possible for the Secretary for Scotland to give an answer to a specific question like that. He hoped that some right hon. Gentleman on behalf of the Government would give an answer.
  MR. CLAUDE HAYsaid the Amendment before the Committee was in regard to the instructions which the Secretary for Scotland had to issue. Throughout the whole of this discussion the Secretary for Scotland had not been in his place, and he had not dared to face the House of Commons in regard to a matter for which he would be responsible. All he had to say was that nothing had occurred in this House more un-Scottish than the conduct of the Secretary for Scotland in this matter.
  THE CHAIRMANintimated that the hon. Member's remarks were not relevant to the Amendment.
  MR. CLAUDE HAY, to put himself in order, moved to report progress, but
  THE CHAIRMANdeclined to accept the Motion.
  Original Question put.
  The Committee divided:—Ayes, 341: Noes, 77. (Division List No. 353.)

  Brunner.Rt.Hn.Sir J.T.(Chesh.

  Hart-Davics, T.

  Manfield, Harry (Northants)

  Bryce, Rt.Hn. James (Aberdeen

  Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)

  Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln)

  Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs)

  Harwood, George

  Markham, Arthur Basil

  Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn

  Haslam, James (Derbyshire)

  Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston

  Buckmaster, Stanley O.

  Haslam, Leiws (Monmouth.)

  Mason, A. E. W. (Coventry)

  Burns, Rt. Hon. John

  Haworth, Arthur A.

  Massie, J.

  Burnyeat, W. J. D.

  Hazel, Dr. A. E.

  Meagher, Michael

  Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas.

  Hedges, A. Paget

  Menzies, Walter

  Byles, William Pollard

  Helme, Norval Watson

  Micklem, Nathaniel

  Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H.

  Hemmerde, Edward George

  Molteno, Percy Alport

  Carr-Gomm, H. W.

  Henderson, Arthur (Durham)

  Money, L. G. Chiozza

  Causton,Rt.Hn.RichardKnight

  Henry, Charles S.

  Montagu, E. S.

  Cawley, Frederick

  Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.)

  Montgomery, H. G.

  Chance, Frederick William

  Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe)

  Mooney, J. J.

  Cheetham, John Frederick

  Higham, John Sharp

  Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)

  Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R.

  Hobart, Sir Robert

  Morgan, J.Lloyd(Carmarthen)

  Churchill, Winston Spencer

  Hogan, Michael

  Morrell, Philip

  Clarke, C. Goddard

  Holden, E. Hopkinson

  Morse, L. L.

  Cleland, J. W.

  Holland, Sir William Henry

  Morton, Alpheus Cleophas

  Clough, W.

  Hooper, A. G.

  Murnaghan, George

  Coats, Sir T. Glen(Renfrew,W.)

  Horniman.Emslie John

  Murphy, John

  Cobbold, Felix Thornley

  Horridge, Thomas Gardner

  Murray, James

  Collins.SirWm. J.(S. Pancras,W

  Howard, Hon. Geoffrey

  Myer, Horatio

  Cooper, G. J.

  Hudson, Walter

  Nannetti, Joseph P.

  Corbett, A. Cameron(Glasgow)

  Hutton, Alfred Eddison

  Napier, T. B.

  Corbett,CH.(Sussex,E.Grnst'd

  Hyde, Clarendon

  Newnes, F. (Notts, Bassetlaw

  Cornwall, Sir Edwin A.

  Idris, T. H. W.

  Nicholls, George

  Cotton, Sir H. J. S.

  Illingworth, Percy H.

  Nicholson, Chas. N.(Doncast'r)

  Craig, HerbertJ.(Tynemouth)

  Isaacs, Rufus Daniel

  Nolan, Joseph

  Cremer, William Randal

  Jackson, R. S.

  Norton, Capt. Cecil William

  Crosfield, A. H.

  Jacoby, James Alfred

  Nussey, Thomas Willans

  Dalziel, James Henry

  Jenkins, J.

  Nuttall, Harry

  Davies, Ellis William (Eifion)

  Johnson, W. (Nuneaton)

  O'Brien, KendalfTipperaryMid

  Davies, Timothy (Fulham)

  Jones, SirD.Brynmor(Swansea)

  O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

  Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.)

  Jones, Leif (Appleby)

  O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.)

  Delany, William

  Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire)

  O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

  Dawar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.)

  Jowett, F. W.

  O'Doherty, Philip

  Dickinson, W. H. (St. Pancras)

  Joyce, Michael

  O'Donnell, C. J. (Walworth)

  Duckworth, James

  Kearley, Hudson E.

  O'Grady, J.

  Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness

  Kekewich, Sir Geroge

  O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon, N.)

  Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley)

  Kelley, George D.

  O'Malley, William

  Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne)

  Kincaid-Smith, Captain

  O'Mara, James

  Duane, MajorE.Martin(Walsall

  King, Alfred John (Knustford)

  O'Shaughnessy, P. J.

  Edwards, Clement (Denbigh)

  Kitson, Rt. Hon. Sir James

  Parker, James (Halifax)

  Edwards, Enoch (Hanley)

  Laidlaw. Robert

  Partington, Oswald

  Edwards, Frank (Radnor)

  Lamb. Edmund G. (Leominster

  Paul, Herbert

  Elibank, Master of

  Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester)

  Paulton, James Mellor

  Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward

  Lambert, George

  Pearce, Robert (Staffs Leek)

  Erskine, David C.

  Lamont, Norman

  Pearce, William (Limehouse)

  Esmonde, Sir Thomas

  Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)

  Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thamoton

  Eve, Harry Trelawney

  Layland-Barratt, Francis

  Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke)

  Everett, R. Lacey

  Lehmann, R. C.

  Pickersgill, Edward Hare

  Fonwick, Charles

  Lever, A. Levy(Essex,Harwich)

  Pollard, Dr.

  Ferens, T. R.

  Levy, Maurice

  Price, C. E. (Edinburgh,Central

  Field, William

  Lewis, John Herbert

  Radford, G. H.

  Fiennes, Hon. Eustace

  Lough, Thomas

  Rainy, A. Rolland

  Flynn, James Christopher

  Lundon, W.

  Raphael, Herbert H.

  Freeman-Thomas, Freeman

  Lupton, Arnold

  Rea, Russell (Gloucester)

  Fuller, John Michael F.

  Lyell, Charles Henry

  Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'

  Fullerton, Hugh

  Lynch, H. B.

  Redmond, John E. (Waterford)

  Gibb, James (Harrow)

  .Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs

  Redmond, William (Clare)

  Gill, A. H.

  Maclean, Donald

  Rees, J. D.

  Gladstone, Rt.Hn.HerbertJohn

  Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.

  Rendall, Athelstan

  G'over, Thomas

  MacVeagh, Jeremiah(Down.S.)

  Renton, Major Leslie

  Goddard, Daniel Ford

  MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal,E.

  Richards, Thos. (W. Monm'th)

  Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)

  M'Crae, George

  Richardaon, A.

  Greenwood, Hamar (York)

  M'Kean, John

  Rickett, J. Compton

  Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward

  M'Kenna, Reginald

  Ridsdale, E. A.

  Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton

  M'Killop, W.

  Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)

  Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.

  M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.)

  Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)

  Hall, Frederick

  M'Micking, Major G.

  Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

  Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis

  Maddison, Frederick

  Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside)

  Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)

  Mallet, Charles E.

  Robinson, S.

  1006

  1007

  Robson, Sit William Snowdon

  Strachey, Sir Edward

  Waterlow, D. S.

  Roe, Sir Thomas

  Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)

  Watt, H. Anderson

  Rogers, F. E. Newman

  Stuart, James (Sunderland)

  Wedgwood, Josiah C.

  Rose, Charles Day

  Sullivan, Donal

  Weir, James Galloway

  Rowlands, J.

  Sumnerbell, T.

  White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)

  Runciman, Walter

  Taylor Austin (East Toxteth)

  White, Luke (York, E.R.)

  Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford)

  Taylor, John W. (Durham)

  White, Patrick (Meath, North)

  Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)

  Taylor, Theodore C. (Rideliffe

  Whithead, Rowland

  Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)

  Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)

  Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

  Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde)

  Thomas. Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)

  Wiles, Thomas

  Scott, A.H.(Ashton underLyne

  Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr

  Williams, J. (Glamorgan)

  Sears, J. E.

  Thompson, J.W.H.(Somcrset,E

  Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarthen

  Seely, Major J. B.

  Tomkinson, James

  Williamson. A.

  Shackleton, David James

  Torrance, Sir A. M.

  Wills. Arthur Walters

  Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)

  Toulmin, George

  Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull, W.

  Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B.)

  Verney, F. W.

  Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)

  Shipman, Dr. John G.

  Wadsworth, J.

  Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)

  Simon, John Allsebrook

  Waldron, Laurence Ambrose

  Wilson, J.W.(Worcestersh, N.)

  Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John

  Walsh, Stephen

  Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)

  Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie

  Walters, John Tudor

  Winfrey, R.

  Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.)

  Walton, Sir John L. (Leeds, S.)

  Wood, T. M'Kinnon

  Snowden, P.

  Walton, Joseph (Bamsley)

  Woodhouse,SirJ.T.(Huddersfd

  Soares, Ernest J.

  Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent)

  Young, Samuel

  Stanger, H: Y.

  Ward, W.Dudley(Southampton

  Stanley, Hn. A.Lyulph(Chesh.)

  Wardle, George J.

  TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Whiteley and Mr. J. A. Pease.

  Stewart, Halley (Greenock)

  Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.

  Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal)

  Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney)

  NOES.

  Acland-Hood.Rt.Hn.SirAlexF.

  Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.)

  Randles, Sir John Scurrah

  Ashley, W. W.

  Dalrymple, Viscount

  Rawlinson, John Frederick Peel

  Balcarres, Lord

  Doughty, Sir George

  Roberts, S.(Sheffield, Ecclesall)

  Balfour, Rt.Hn.A.J.(CityLond.

  Duncan, Robert(Lanark,Govan

  Ropner. Colonel Sir Robert

  Banbury, Sir Frederick George

  Fell, Arthur

  Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter

  Banner, John S. Harmood-

  Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.

  Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)

  Baring, Hon. Guy (Wincnester)

  Forster, Henry William

  Salter, Arthur Clavell

  Barrie, H. T.(Londonderry,N.)

  Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West)

  Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert

  Beach, Hn.Michacl Hugh Hicks

  Hamilton, Marquess of

  Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)

  Beckett, Hon. Gervase

  Hardy, Laurence(Kent,Ashford

  Smith, F. E. (Liverpool,Walton

  Bowles, G. Stewart

  Harrison-Broadley. Col. H. B.

  Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)

  Boyle, Sir Edward

  Hay, Hon. Claude George

  Staveley-Hill, Henry Staff'sn.)

  Bridgeman, W. Clive

  Hills, J. W.

  Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)

  Butcher, Samuel Henry

  Houston, Robert Paterson

  Talbot, Rt,Hn.J.G.(Oxf'dUniv.

  Carlile, E. Hildred

  Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H.

  Thornton, Percy M.

  Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H.

  Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm,

  Turnour, Viscount

  Castlereagu, Viscount

  Lane-Fox, G. R.

  Valentia, Viscount

  Cave, George

  Law, Andrew Bonar (Dulwich)

  Walker, Col.W.H.(Lancashire)

  Cavendish, Rt. Hn.Victor C.W.

  Long, Rt, Hn. Walter(Dublin,S

  Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.)

  Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)

  Lowe, Sir Francis William

  Wilson, A.Stanley (York, E.R.)

  Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.)

  Lyttelton, Rt, Hon. Alfred

  Wolff, Custav Wilhelm

  Chamberlain,Rt,Hn.J.A.(Worc.

  M'Calmont, Colonel James

  Wyndhan Rt. Hon. George

  Coates, E. Feetham(Lewisham)

  Meysey-Thompson, E. C.

  Younger, George

  Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.

  Mildmay, Francis Bingham

  Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)

  Morpeth, Viscount

  TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Mitchell-Thomson and Sir

  Courthope, G. Loyd

  Parker, Sir Gilbert (Gravesend)

  Criag,Chas.Curtis(Antrim,S.)

  Powell, Sir Francis Sharp

  Henry Craik.

  MR. GEORGE WHITELEY, in moving to report progress, gave notice that it was the intention of the Prime Minister to move the suspension of the Eleven o'clock rule to-morrow.
  Committee report Progress; to sit again to-morrow.
  Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Resolution of the House of the 4th August last.
  Adjoured at two minutes after Eleven o' clock.