§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £12,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1905, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Departments of the Solicitor for the Affairs of His Majesty's Treasury, King's Proctor, and Director of Public Prosecutions, the Cost of Prosecutions, and other Legal Proceedings."
§ Whereupon Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Item BB (Criminal Prosecutions not undertaken by the Director of Public Prosecutions) be reduced by £200."—(Mr. Lough.)
§ SIR FREDERICK BANBURY (Camberwell, Peckham)was surprised that the hon. Member had given no explanation of the object of the Amendment.
§ MR. LOUGH (Islington, W.)I gave it on the last occasion.
§ SIR FREDERICK BANBURYsaid it did not follow that hon. Members now present were in the House when the question was last discussed, and they ought not to be asked to vote without being informed of the reasons why the reduction was proposed. He assumed that it was in connection with the Whitaker Wright prosecution. Now he was one of those who did not agree with the view of the Attorney-General in the matter of that prosecution, but in the end it turned out that he was right, for Whitaker Wright was convicted. But all men, even the Attorney-General, were liable to make mistakes, and because one might have been made in this case, he did 670 not consider it a sufficient reason for moving a reduction of the hon. and learned Gentleman's salary. The point at issue between them, it would be in the recollection of the House, was as to the object of the issue of false balance-sheets, their contention being that by such issue money was obtained by false pretences and great misery caused. Therefore, that was an offence punishable by law. But the Attorney-General took the view that there was no evidence to prove that the publication of the false balance-sheets enabled Whitaker Wright to obtain money or caused any one to lose it, and it was on that ground that the hon. and learned Gentleman based his opinion that the Government ought not to prosecute. That, he believed, was the wrong view. But then the hon. and learned Gentleman was not perhaps aware that numerous people would have sold their shares had it not been for the issue of the balance-sheets, and others bought shares on the strength of them, thus being undoubtedly defrauded of their money by a false pretence. No doubt the hon. and learned Gentleman was animated by the desire, which so often animated lawyers and other people, to be certain of success before taking action, and there was something to be said for that point of view. It was suggested that those who suffered by reason of the failure of the London and Globe Finance Corporation should themselves have taken action. As a matter of fact they did so and events justified their policy. But that was no ground for suggesting that the Attorney-General was not capable of fulfilling the duties of his office, which, he assumed, was the object of the Motion. As he understood it the Government had done the right thing, and paid the costs of those who instituted the prosecution. When one once got in the hands of the law there was no telling what might happen.
§ SIR HENRY FOWLER (Wolverhampton, E.)I rise to a point of order. The Motion before the House is for the reduction of the Vote. The hon. Member does not seem to be speaking to that question or to be making any remarks bearing upon the reduction.
*THE CHAIRMANThere are two questions really before the Committee, the reduction of the Vote and the payment of the whole sum. The remarks of the hon. Member related to the payment of these prosecution expenses. I think that is relevant; it is the line on which the debate proceeded the other night.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILL (Donegal, S.)And it occupied two hours.
§ SIR FREDERICK BANBURYI do not intend to occupy the time of the Committee any longer.
§ MR. LLOYD-GEORGE (Canarvon Boroughs)Oh, go on, there is the closure at half-past five.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN (Stirling Burghs)I do not think I have ever in my experience of this House been present at a more gross obstruction and wasting of public time.
§ SIR GEORGE BARTLEY (Islington, N.) rose, but Sir H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN remained standing.
§ SIR GEORGE BARTLEYYes, Sir. I wish to ask, Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, whether the right hon. Gentleman is speaking to the reduction or to the Vote.
*THE CHAIRMANHe was speaking to neither; the right hon. Gentleman was referring to the course of the present debate.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANWhat has happened with regard to this question of the Whitaker Wright prosecution is this. It was discussed at quite sufficient length on the previous occasion. The Committee was then ready to divide, but it was arranged that it should be adjourned in order that the Secretary to the Treasury should convey some information which the House desired to possess. It was on that small point that the adjournment was agreed to, and now the Government, having taken 672 from us all our public time, except from a quartér-past three to half-past five, deliberately encourage one of their supporters to occupy a large part of that reduced time. There are other items in this Vote which require discussion, and this is the way in which they connive at—[Mr. SWIFT MACNEILL: Organise, Organise,]—yes, organise, the employment of the reduced time which they have left to a muzzled House of Commons.
§ THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Sir ROBERT FINLAY,) Inverness BurghsI think the right hon. Gentleman cannot possibly have been present on the last occasion, or he would recollect that this was discussed at considerable length, and it was on his side of the House that a determination was expressed to have more time for the discussion. A Motion was made to report Progress, and owing to its being very nearly twelve o'clock it was obviously useless to resist that Motion, and it was acquiesced in. There was no such arrangement as that which the right hon. Gentleman alleges [OPPOSITION cries of "Yes, there was"]; and all hon. Gentlemen present will agree with what I say. [Cries of "No, no! We were present the whole time."]
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANLook what has happened since that time. We have now the guillotine.
§ SIR ROBERT FINLAYThat does not alter what took place, not even the guillotine can alter what has passed. I have no desire to stand between the House and the division, although no reason was given by the mover for the reduction.
§ SIR ROBERT FINLAYIn compliance with what appeared to be the general desire of the House, the Treasury said they would pay the costs of this prosecution. Now a Motion is made that £200 be taken out of the pockets of those who had conducted this prosecution. [MINISTERIAL cheers.] I could have understood it if it had been a Motion to reduce the salary of the Law Officers.
§ MR. LAMBERT (Devonshire, South Molton)That will come in time.
§ SIR ROBERT FINLAYHaving regard to the reasons—the very odd reasons given for this Motion, may I be allowed to say one word. What I had to determine was whether the name of the Director of Public Prosecutions should be given to the prosecution of Whitaker Wright; I had to form my opinion on the materials before me to the best of my judgment, and the conclusion that I arrived at was that it would not be proper to do so. I am not going at length into my reasons; they related to the construction of a section of the Larceny Act, and, on the materials before me, I came to the conclusion that Whitaker Wright in issuing that most misleading balance-sheet did not do so for the purpose of deceiving or defrauding the shareholders or creditors; on the contrary, that it was for the purpose of benefiting them by carrying through an arrangement, a most improper one in my judgment, but one which did not seem to come within a breach of the criminal law. I stated my reasons more than a year ago on the Address, and I think the House was generally satisfied on the subject; at all events, a notice of Motion given on it was not prosecuted by the mover.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILLIt was closured.
§ SIR ROBERT FINLAYThere was an opportunity.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILLNo, there was not.
§ SIR ROBERT FINLAYI think the hon. Member is mistaken.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILLNo, I am not.
§ SIR ROBERT FINLAYAt any rate no attempt was made to move it.
§ MR. LAMBERTIt was closured.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILLI will not allow this to pass. My recollection is perfectly distinct.
*THE CHAIRMANOrder, order! The hon. Member is not entitled to interrupt in this way. If he wishes to correct the Attorney-General he will have an opportunity of doing that afterwards.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILLI am sure the Attorney-General's sense of courtesy will allow his recollection to be revived. What occurred was this: the hon. Member for South Molton had an Amendment down to the Address in reference to this Whitaker Wright prosecution; but before it was arrived at an hon. Member was put up to ask the Attorney-General a Question; we got his ex parte statement, and the Amendment was never moved.
§ SIR ROBERT FINLAYI may remind the hon. Member that the fact that a Question was asked and a statement made did not in the slightest degree prevent the Amendment being moved.
§ MR. LAMBERTIt was closured.
§ SIR ROBERT FINLAYI am not going to argue the matter. I only ask hon. Gentlemen who really wish to inform their minds to read my statement. I only wish to make one further observation of a general character. Whatever may be the opinion of any hon. Member with regard to any particular case, I think all will agree that it is one of the most important things in this country that in the very difficult and arduous and delicate task of deciding whether the Director of Public Prosecutions should take up a case, the Attorney-General, upon whom the responsibility rests, should exercise his judgment freely independently, and without fear or favour, and I do ask hon. Gentlemen opposite whether the line a few, a very few, of them are disposed to take in this matter is calculated to ensure the continuance of that system under which in this matter we have lived hitherto. If on every occasion the Attorney-General is thought to have done wrong his conduct is to be the subject of public censure in this House, do hon. Gentlemen think that will be conducive to the welfare of this country? As long as I hold this office, and I speak for every member of the Bar who occupies it after me, the duty of the Attorney-General in this particular 675 matter will be to act with a sole eye to the public service, and with a sole eye to see whether every particular case is one proper to be taken up by the Director of Public Prosecutions.
§ MR. BOND (Nottingham, E.)said the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition had charged them with wasting the time of the House, but what did he think of the action of his followers in thus, without explanation, impugning the action of the Attorney-General?
§ MR. BONDWhen most hon. Members now present were not in the House. He thought the Motion of the hon. Member opposite, particularly having regard to the contemptuous way in which it was moved, was an abuse of the forms of the
§ House. The moving of such a Motion, in order to bring a railing accusation against the Attorney-General—a Motion in which, in fact, there was no substance—was as gross a waste of the time of the House as anything that might be done on his side of the House by way of meeting a rather discreditable manœuvre. After all, it did not follow that the opinion given by the Attorney-General was wrong. All men were fallible, even Judges, and it was a matter of notoriety that the ruling of the Judge as to the applicability to the case of the Larceny Act had not passed unquestioned. Therefore it was not by any means clear that the opinion of the Attorney-General was really wrong.
§ Question put
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 173; Noes, 237. (Division List No. 68.)
679| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) | Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) | Lament, Norman |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Emmott, Alfred | Langley, Batty |
| Allen, Charles P. | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.) |
| Ambrose, Robert | Fenwick, Charles | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Ffrench, Peter | Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington) |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Findlay, Alexander (Lanark, NE | Levy, Maurice |
| Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Lloyd-George, David |
| Bell, Richard | Flynn, James Christopher | Lundon, W. |
| Bonn, John Williams | Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) | Lyell, Charles Henry |
| Blake, Edward | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. |
| Boland, John | Freeman-Thomas, Captain, F. | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift |
| Brigg, John | Fuller, J. M. F. | MacVeagh, Jeremiah |
| Broadhust, Henry | Gladstone, Rt Hn. Herbert John | M'Crae, George |
| Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson | Goddard, Daniel Ford | M'Kean, John |
| Bryce, Rt. Hon. James | Grant, Corrie | M'Kenna, Reginald |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir E. (Berwick) | Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.) |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | Mooney, John J. |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Hammond, John | Morley, Rt Hon. John (Montrose) |
| Caldwell, James | Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil) | Moss Samuel |
| Cameron, Robert | Harrington, Timothy | Murphy, John |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Harwood, George | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Hayden, John Patrick | Nolan, Col. John P. (Galway, N.) |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Cawley, Frederick | Helme, Norval Watson | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary, Mid |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E. | O'Brien, Patrick Kilkenny) |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Holland, Sir William Henry | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) |
| Cremer, William Randal | Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Crombie, John William | Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Jacoby, James Alfred | 0'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N) |
| Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan) | Johnson, John | O'Mara, James |
| Delany, William | Joicey, Sir James | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea) | Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) |
| Dobbie, Joseph | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Priestley, Arthur |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire | Rea, Russell |
| Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) | Jordan, Jeremiah | Reddy, M. |
| Duffy, William J. | Kilbride, Denis | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Duncan, J. Hastings | Kitson, Sir James | Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'th) |
| Edwards, Frank | Lambert, George | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) | Spencer, Rt. Hn. C. R (Northants. | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) | Stanhope, Hon. Philip James | Weir, James Galloway |
| Roche, John | Stevenson, Francis S | White, George (Norfolk) |
| Roe, Sir Thomas | Strachey, Sir Edward | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Rose, Charles Day | Sullivan, Donal | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Runciman, Walter | Taylor, Theordore C. (Radcliffe) | Whiteley, George (York, W. R.) |
| Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Tennant, Harold John | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Schwann, Charles E. | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Seely, Maj J. E. B. (Isle of Wight) | Thomas. David Alfred (Merthyr) | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) |
| Shackleton, David James | Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.) | Wilson, John (Falkirk) |
| Shaw, Thomas (Hawiek, B.) | Tomkinson, James | Wood, James |
| Sheehy, David | Toulmin, George | Woodhouse, Sir J.T (Huddersf'd) |
| Shipman, Dr. John G. | Trevelyan, Charles Philips | Young, Samuel, |
| Sinclair, John (Forfarshire) | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Slack, John Bamford | Wallace, Robert | |
| Smith, Samuel (Flint) | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. |
| Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | Lough and Mr. Herbert |
| Soares, Ernest J. | Wason Eugene (Clackmannan) | Lewis. |
| NOES. | ||
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile | Hops. J. F. (Sheffield. Brightside) |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Honer, Frederick William |
| Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden | Dalrymple, Sir Charles | Hoult, Joseph |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Davenport, William Bromley- | Howard. John (Kent, Faversh'm |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chatham) | Haword, J. (Midd., Tottenham) |
| Arnold-Forster, Rt Hn. Hugh O. | Denny, Colonel | Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Dickson, Charles Scott | Hudson, George Bickersteth |
| Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt Hon. Sir H. | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Hunt, Rowland |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Hutton, John (Yorks. N. R.) |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred |
| Baird, John George Alexander | Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H. |
| Balcarres, Lord | Elliott, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas | Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hou. Col. W. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A J.(Manch'r) | Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r. | Kerr, John |
| Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds) | Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. |
| Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Laurie, Lieut.-General |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Finlay, Sir R. B. (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs) | Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Firbank, Sir Joseph Thomas | Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (Mile End) |
| Barry, Sir Francis T. (Windsor) | Fisher, William Hayes | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks. NR |
| Bartley, Sir George C. T. | FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose | Lee, Arthur H. (Hants., Fareham |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin | FitzRoy, Hon. Edward Algernon | Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir Michael Hicks | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage |
| Beckett, Ernest William | Flower, Sir Ernest | Leveson, Gower, Frederick N. S. |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Forster, Henry William | Llewellyn, Evan Henry |
| Bignold, Sir Arthur | Foster, Philip S. (Warwick, S. W.) | Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. |
| Bigwood, James | Galloway, William Johnson | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine |
| Bingham, Lord | Gardner, Ernest | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham) |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Garfit, William | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S.) |
| Bond, Edward | Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. | Lowe, Francis William |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Gordon, Hn. J. E (Elgin & Nairn) | Loyd, Archie Kirkman |
| Bowles, Lt.-Col. H. F. (Middlesex | Gordon, Maj. Evans (T'rH'mlets | Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) |
| Brassey, Albert | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon | Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth) |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John. | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred |
| Brotherton, Edward Allen | Graham, Henry Robert | Macdona, John Cumming |
| Bull, William James | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | MacIver, David (Liverpool) |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) | Maconochie, A. W. |
| Campbell, Rt Hn. J. A. (Glasgow) | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | M'Calmont, Colonel James |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Gretton, John | M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh, W. |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire) | Hain, Edward | Majendie, James A. H. |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. | Malcolm, Ian |
| Chamberlain, Rt Hn. J. A. (Worc. | Hamilton, Marq of (L'nd'derry) | Manners, Lord Cecil |
| Chapman, Edward | Hare, Thomas Leigh. | Marks, Harry Hananel |
| Clive, Captain Percy A. | Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th) | Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriesshire |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Haslam, Sir Alfred S. | Mildmay, Francis Bingham |
| Cohen, Benjamin, Louis | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Milvain, Thomas |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley | Montagu, Hon. Scott (Hants.) |
| Colomb, Rt. Hon. Sir John C. R. | Heath, Sir James (Staffords. N W. | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy |
| Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole | Heaton, John Henniker | Morgan, David J. (Walthamsto' |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Holder, Augustus | Morpeth, Viscount |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) | Hogg, Lindsay | Morrison, James Archibald |
| Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer | Ridley, S. Forde | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Mount, William Arthur | Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) | Tuff, Charles |
| Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) | Tuke, Sir John Batty |
| Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Rolleston, Sir John F. L. | Turnour, Viscount |
| Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Round, Rt. Hon. James | Vincent, Col. Sir C E H (Sheffield) |
| Myers, William Henry | Royds, Clement Molyneux | Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter) |
| Nicholson, William Graham | Rutherford, John (Lancashire) | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) | Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) | Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H. |
| Parker, Sir Gilbert | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Parkes, Ebenezer | Samuel, Sir Harry S. (Limehouse) | Warde, Colonel C. E. |
| Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) | Welby, Lt,-Col. A. C. E. (Taunton |
| Pemberton, John S. G. | Seton-Karr, Sir Henry | Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.) |
| Percy, Earl | Shaw-Stewart. Sir H. (Renfrew) | Wharton. Rt. Hon. John Lloyd |
| Pierpoint, Robert | Simeon, Sir Barrington | Whiteley, H. (Ashton und. Lyne) |
| Pilkington, Colonel Richard | Sinclair, Louis (Romford) | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Platt-Higgins, Frederick | Smith. HC. (North'mb. Tynesid' | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset) |
| Plummer, Sir Walter R. | Smith, Rt Hn J. Parker (Lanarks) | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Powell, Sir Francis Sharpe | Smith. Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Pretyman, Ernest George | Spencer, Sir E. (W. Bromwich) | Wilson-Todd, Sir W. H. (Yorks.) |
| Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lanes. | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Purvis, Robert | Stewart, Sir Mark J. M 'Taggart | Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson |
| Pym, C. Guy | Stock, James Henry | Wortley, Rt, Hon. C. B. Stuart |
| Randles, John S. | Stone, Sir Benjamin | Wylie, Alexander |
| Rankin, Sir James | Stroyan, John | |
| Ratcliff, S. F. | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir |
| Reid, James (Greenock) | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ. | Alexander Acland-Hood and |
| Remnant, James Farquharson | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Viscount Valentia. |
| Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine | Thornton, Percy M. | |
| Renwick, George | Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. |
§ Original Question again proposed.
§ *MR. LOUGHthought the sum of money proposed to be granted as compensation to Mr. Adolf Beck deserved the attention of the House. He believed these cases of arrest, wrongful imprisonment, and unfairly conducted trials were not nearly so rare as a great many people believed. He thought that the conduct of the police in this particular case required the attention of the Home Secretary. In the case of this unfortunate man he was found to be innocent of all the charges made against him, and for many years he suffered the most tremendous persecution. He felt that the police were greatly to blame because they arrested this man upon very inadequate evidence. There was too much disposition on the part of the police to arrest anybody without reliable evidence, trusting that something would turn up afterwards. The police arrested Mr. Beck on the statement of a woman, and he was arrested and kept in confinement while an attempt was made to get up a case against him. There had been other notorious cases in London recently, and he was surprised at the number of cases within six months in which arrests were made and the accused detained without a scrap of evidence made against them. In this instance the evidence produced 680 was of such a character that the police ought to have received it with the greatest caution. A number of women who had suffered grevious wrongs were brought to see Mr. Beck, and they were naturally anxious to pick out the man who had injured and robbed them. Of these women only about one half identified Mr. Beck, but the police did not seem to have taken warning from that fact. He believed that prisoners were far too lightly cast into prison, often without any evidence and on slight suspicion. If Mr. Beck had been left at large for a week or two he would have found it difficult to get away, and if more leisure had been shown by the police in going about this matter there would have been no detriment to the carrying out of the law.
When they came to the conduct of criminal prosecutions he thought there was much ground for complaint. The case passed rapidly out of the hands of the police, and he thought the prosecution was proceeded with in a way which showed a determination to secure a conviction. He had blamed the police for the avidity with which they swallowed everything the women who accused Mr. Beck said to them. But how much more blameworthy were the solicitors, counsel, and especially the 681 Crown prosecutor, who ought to have been specially careful to avoid irregularity. It seemed to him that when the Crown prosecutor did get charge of the case he did not proceed with due regard to the maxim that the prisoner should have the benefit of the doubt. Evidence was brought forward in the early stages of the case which was found to be of a shaky character. At the police Court it, was assumed all along that Mr. Beck was the same as Smith who committed similar crimes fifteen or twenty years ago. There was considerable prejudice created against the man at the commencement of the trial through that assumption on the part of the police. Afterwards the prosecutor began to have some doubts, and he did not give the evidence which he had intended to bring. Mr. Beck's solicitor asked for the production of proof that Mr. Beck was the same man as Smith. Why was not that assistance given to the defending counsel? Should not the object of the Crown prosecutor be to arrive at the truth rather than to convict the prisoner? The whole proceedings were carried out with the idea of obtaining a conviction, as if counsel and solicitors had some inducement, perhaps, to get promotion or credit by securing a conviction rather than by actually getting at the facts of the case.
There was great reason for complaint as to the manner in which the case was carried on when it finally came before the Judge. When it was found that the defence was going to bring out that Mr. Beck was not the same man as Smith, the prosecution refused to bring out at the trial the evidence which was used in the police Court. The Judge decided that it was irrelevant to the issue. This proved a very embarrassing proceeding for Mr. Beck's counsel, and the result was that a conviction was secured. No one could look at the difficulties with which the defendant had to contend without feeling that perfectly innocent persons might have false charges brought against them. If this House could do anything to protect others from being placed in equally difficult circumstances it ought to be done. When Mr. Beck was sent to prison he commenced sending 682 petitions to the Home Office. One came after another, and it was not until about half-a-dozen had been sent that any attention whatever was given to them. In these petitions Mr. Beck made it clear that there was absolute proof that he could not be Smith who was accused of the crime on a former occasion. Mr. Beck also ascertained that the prison authorities were well convinced of that fact. He really thought that when circumstances of the greatest gravity were brought to the notice of the Home Office they ought to be carefully inquired into. Even then the Home Office tried to sustain the action of the prosecution. When they got information about Smith's identification marks it was sent to the Judge. He did not propose to comment on the action of the Judge. It was the system he wanted to direct attention to. The action of the Home Office was absolutely callous. The prison authorities were not told that the evidence was wrong or anything of that kind. The Judge admitted at the close of his long argumentative letter that the identification marks of Smith proved that he was not the same man. The Judge attached very great importance to the identification marks. What did the Home Office do? The Home Office said, "Sweep away this evidence, blot out the record of the identification marks, give the prisoner we have now got hold of a new number and then all will be right." And so this unfortunate man had to endure a long term of imprisonment. Finally he was released, and the astounding thing was that the same course of events began again. The police again arrested him on doubtful evidence, and again the trial was much the same from the first. Some feeling of doubt had commenced now to get into the mind of the prosecutor, but finally this unfortunate man was committed once more. The remarkable thing in this long course of injustice was that the prosecutor, the Home Office, the police, and the prison authorities did not make the slightest movement in the direction of discovering the truth. It was not until the end of eight years that the mistakes which these great departments had been making were disclosed to the public.
He did not think there could be a case which could reflect more seriously 683 on the criminal procedure of this country. There were some features of the inquiry which was held at the instance of the Government to which the most serious attention of the House ought to be directed. Mr. Beck who was absolutely innocent had been "pardoned." What had he done that he had to be pardoned? It was not Mr. Beck who required to be pardoned. It was the Home Office, the police, and the Crown prosecutor who required pardon. He wished to know whether any change was going to be made in the criminal law in order to prevent, such miscarriages of justice. In answer to a Question which he recently asked the Prime Minister he got the unsympathetic Answer that cases of this kind were extremely rare. He did not believe they were rare. He had heard of a good many cases himself, and he had no doubt that hon. Members connected with the legal profession had heard of many of those cases. The inquiry had been most satisfactory in so far as the bringing out of the facts was concerned, but the result arrived at up to the present had been of the most inadequate character. Four recommendations had been made by the Committee of Inquiry. They refrained from recommending that there should be a Court of Appeal. That was a matter that should be inquired into more fully. He did not think that an effective remedy would be obtained for such miscarriages of justice unless a Court of Criminal Appeal was set up. The Inquiry Committee recommended that there should be a means of referring to a superior Court on points of law. He had tried to study the Bill introduced by the Government in another place, but he was not sure that it would be effective for the purpose. The Committee also recommended that there should be more co-ordination of the departments connected with the Home Office. He wished to hear from the Home Secretary whether anything was being done in regard to that.
The whole of the evidence in this case had produced on his mind the painful impression that people were not nearly so safe from the possibility of arrest and cruel treatment in this country as they had thought. Whenever any charge was made against 684 a man, either criminal or civil, he was often placed in the most difficult position, with few friends about him. The facts of this case showed that a perfectly innocent man might be placed in these difficult circumstances. It was the duty of the House to protect the innocent. The passion for conviction by the police and the Crown prosecutors, and the refusal of assistance to the defence, struck him as most lamentable. It was better that a thousand guilty persons should be set free than that one innocent person should be unjustly convicted and sent to prison. Although it might be said by the right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary that if he moved the reduction of the Vote by £100 that, if successful, would only deprive Mr. Beck of that amount of the proposed indemnity; still it was the only way in which they could bring the case under review, and he moved accordingly that the amount of the Vote be reduced by £100.
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Item BBB (Compensations for Wrongful Imprisonment) be reduced by. £100."—(Mr. Lough.)
§ SIR ALBERT ROLLIT (Islington, S.)said he agreed with his hon. friend that the Report of the Committee on Mr. Beck's case was not pleasant reading to those interested in the administration of justice in this country. Very few of those spoken of in the Report came out of the inquiry satisfactorily. Certainly many of the witnesses had lamentably distinguished themselves, and among them the class of experts in hand-writing. The Home Office was, he thought, from time to time, clearly put on its guard. The officials of that Department ought to have made much earlier inquiry and representations, which would probably have led to the discovery of this great miscarriage of justice. Even those responsible for the conduct of the case in Court, both for the prosecution and the defence, and even the Judges, seemed not to be free from our doubts as to the wisdom of the proceedings in a matter affecting the liberty of the subject and the administration of justice. But he could not go with his hon. friend when he made such strong reflections on the police. The reflections in the Committee's Report 685 were made not on the police but on other officials, and it was largely due to an intelligent police officer and not to others that justice was ultimately done. The Report as a whole certainly demanded grave consideration, and he agreed it ought to lead to some improvement in the law itself, apart from the administration of the law. The principal charge was that of obtaining jewellery from women under false pretences; but there was another charge, that of a previous conviction. Such was the irony of the case, that it was probably out of consideration for the prisoner that the second charge was not proceeded with. If it had been, and proof demanded, probably justice would have been done, for one physical fact would have been conclusive. He could not help thinking that those who were responsible for the absence of the fullest consideration of the charge of previous conviction were highly reprehensible. He thought there was often too great a disposition to take a charge of that description as proved without serious investigation. In this case, if there had been more full inquiry, probably justice instead of injustice would have been done.
Another sad reflection was that such a double miscarriage of justice should have occurred in the case of the life of one single person; whereas one would have thought that such an event could hardly have happened at all, even as an accidental coincidence. He would not carry his observations on that point further; but he urged that it was a most serious matter that for nine or ten years, including police supervision, a man marred of every prospect of life, should have been severely punished personally, and should have been robbed of his reputation. Such events gave some misgiving whether the percentage of cases of injustice, even in these days of high civilisation, was quite as low as it should be. He thought the Committee was indebted to his hon. friend for suggesting the matter for consideration and personally he was of opinion that there should be something in the way of a rehearing other that that provided under our existing judicial system; and he had himself 686 brought in Bills to effect that object some two or three years ago, and long before this case. He could not help thinking that his hon. friend was well advised when he said that, when Mr. Beck was undergoing imprisonment, when the mark of previous conviction was attached to him, and when that was shown not to have been proved, the Home Office, instead of merely removing the sign of previous conviction, should have made investigation to see whether Mr. Beck ought to have been convicted of the charge at all. He hoped the Home Secretary would take care that such measures were adopted as to prevent the possibility of any such similar occurrence in the future.
He wished to add a word from the personal point of view of Mr. Beck. Mr. Beck he did not know; but that Gentleman had had communicated to him one or two of the circumstances mentioned to the Committee. It seemed to him that Mr. Beck's personal injuries had not been adequately considered. The compensation originally offered was £2,000, and that was raised to £5,000, or more than doubled. That very alteration appeared to him—with the same materials before the Home Office on both occasions—to show a degree of latitude and doubt on the part of the Home Office which left room for further consideration still. He submitted that if there was, as he believed, truth in the circumstances of the case placed before the Home Secretary by Mr. Beck, by way of memorial, and that they were well founded, the right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary should consider whether or not, in justice to Mr. Beck, he was not bound, at any rate, to appoint a Committee, either of this House or a Departmental Committee, which should look into the whole facts, and deal with them from quite a different point of view from that taken by the previous Committee. That previous Committee consisted of the most eminent men and made a most able Report, but they dealt with the question in its public and judicial aspects. There was, however, a personal and financial standpoint in relation to Mr. Beck which that Committee had not considered. He submitted that, though £5,000 might from one point of view be an adequate compensation, from another aspect it could 687 be no adequate compensation; and no effort should be spared to do adequate justice to a man whose whole life had been ruined by the action of the State. There could be no more complete vindication of Mr. Beck's personal character than the Report of the Committee, so far as words could effect that. The Committee had declared that there was no shadow of foundation for any of the charges and no reason for supposing that Mr. Beck had any connection with them. But it had to be remembered that for nearly ten years Mr. Beck had suffered every possible ignominy, and that his financial losses had never been inquired into by the Committee at all. The right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary, should give consideration to that point. The public aspect of Mr. Beck's position and demands had been inquired into, but not the losses to him as an individual; and if there were any losses to this individual the House had a right to demand that these should also be compensated.
Mr. Beck was to receive under this Vote £5,000; but that gentleman assured him that owing to the expenses he had incurred in his defence he would actually receive no more than £3,000. Mr. Beck informed him that he had agreed to accept £5,000 simply as compensation for his personal injuries, the injustice done to him, and the suffering he had endured; but that his agreement did not cover anything in the shape of actual financial losses which he had sustained. The statement made to him was that at the time of Mr. Beck's apprehension and conviction he had large commercial interests, and interests in land and other properties of great, though possibly, speculative value. He had not only the promise, but the actual enjoyment, of a prosperous business career. Owing to Mr. Beck's incarceration, he understood that he had had to make great sacrifices, because many of his interests were, to a large extent, in Norway, and it was, therefore, impossible that he could manage those affairs from prison in this country. The right hon. Gentleman the Home Secretary had the particulars of Mr. Beck's claims in that respect before him, amounting to many times the £5,000 proposed to be given him by this Vote, and he would like the right, hon. 688 Gentleman to consider them with the view of raising the amount due to Mr. Beck, or of allowing them to go before some impartial Committee for proof and consideration. He knew that his right hon. friend would possibly say that these were the mischances of life, incidents of even an advanced civilisation, the risk of which had to be taken by every individual citizen, and that £5,000 possibly equalled or exceeded any sum previously offered under such circumstances by this or any other country. But he held that Mr. Beck's case was essentially different from any other; he had endured two wrongful and unjust convictions against him in one life and his personal and commercial position was very different from that of any previous ordinary convict even wrongfully convicted. He hoped, under these circumstances, the House would have a sympathetic regard, not only to the question of the public rights which ought to be vindicated, but also to the individual rights of Mr. Beck. He ventured to say £5,000 was inadequate compensation bearing in mind the deductions that had to be made for the necessary expenses that Mr. Beck had been put to, and he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would see his way, even at this eleventh hour, to increase it, for such compensation was a first charge on our civilisation.
§ MR. ASQUITH (Fifeshire, E.)said he was not surprised that his hon. friend should have thought fit to raise this discussion. There was no morn appalling experience than that an innocent man should be wrongly convicted and suffer punishment. The Government had been perfectly right, in the exceptional circumstances of this case, in proposing that some solatium, at any rate, should be given out of the Exchequer. The hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had rightly said that pecuniary compensation for such sufferings was impossible. He did not propose to enter on personal aspects of the case. He had no doubt the Government had carefully considered them. He desired, rather, to make one or two observations on the more general considerations of public policy which the case suggested. It was said, with a certain amount of truth, that such a case was not likely to 689 recur. It involved, indeed, a conjunction of coincidences which might well be described as a real tragedy of error. They were not likely, it was said, to have two men whose handwriting was so similar and also who were in face so like one another that a number of witnesses, quite independently, swore to the identity of one, while apparently describing the other. But the improbability of a recurrence did not answer his plea. The fact that such a thing had occurred, and might possibly occur again, justified the contention that the whole of the machinery concerned should be exposed to due and vigilant scrutiny. He did not agree that any blame attached to the police. An impartial Committee, strongly constituted, had concluded that no shadow of blame attached to them. They did their duty, not only according to the ordinary standards, but with exceptional vigilance, and to them the ultimate establishment of Mr. Beck's innocence was largely due. They might, therefore, leave the police out of the case. The first mistake, indeed the mistake which was the origin of all the subsequent mistakes, the Committee said, was a mistake of the law on the part of the Judge. On that he expressed no opinion of his own. He was bound to accept the law laid down by authorities of so much weight. If there had not been, according to them, a misruling on the part of the Judge who presided at the trial, or if that misruling could have been sot right by some tribunal competent to the task, the mischief would have been avoided. The inference to his mind was clear—and it was in favour of a conclusion at which he had arrived twenty years ago, and which had not in the least been shaken by administrative experience at the Home Office—there ought to be in this country, as in every other civilised country, some form of criminal appeal. He was not pretending for a moment to sketch out what the mode of procedure ought to be; but he welcomed as an instalment in that direction the recommendation of the Committee, which had been acted upon by the Government to make it compulsory on the part of a Judge, when a point of law was raised on a criminal trial, to state a case for the consideration of another Court.
690 But here he must part company with the Cammittee in so far as it suggested that the Home Office was guilty of some breach of duty in not setting that mistake of law right. In his opinion, and he could not state it too clearly, it was not the duty of the Home Office to deal with the state of the law. Mistakes in law were properly dealt with by a judicial tribunal; and the Home Office was bound to take the law as laid down at a trial by a Judge of the Superior Court, or of Assize or Central Criminal Court, upon the interpretation of a statute or the admissibility of evidence. The notion of setting up a Committee formed of a little body of selected lawyers to take to pieces the findings of Judges was a wholly impractical solution. Where were such gentlemen to come from? Were they to be Civil servants? Were they to be gentlemen called to the Bar or admitted as solicitors, and who, through no fault of their own, were without the practical experience which came from the main pursuit and business of their lives? What principle would be applied to the selection of half-a-dozen gentlemen to be entrusted with the duty of reviewing judicial decisions? He dismissed the suggestion as wholly impracticable. The original mistake was one of law, and in that he did not think the Home Office was to blame. Where he thought it was to blame was when it was discovered, as it was, after the unfortunate man had been two years in prison by evidence beyond all cavil, that his supposed identity with Smith, a person convicted of a similar offence, was disproved. When the identity of the two men was disproved by the new evidence the Home Office did right in forwarding that new evidence to the learned Judge who tried the case; and, seeing that the actual documents were forwarded, how the Judge could have treated it as other than official evidence, when if he had read it he would have seen that it was the official document of the prison authorities showing that one man was circumcised and the other was not, remained an unexplained mystery. Where the Home Office went wrong was when they acquiesced in the opinion of the learned Judge that, whether or not the two men were the same, the stream of other evidence was sufficient to convict. 691 When the Home Office discovered that Smith and Beck were not the same person they should have pursued the investigation further. Here they committed an error of judgment.
As to changes in the Home Office machinery which would make a recurrence of such an unhappy affair impossible he had one or two suggestions to make. First, he was surprised that the case was not submitted to the head of the Department. In every case which presented points of substantial doubt and difficulty, and in which the issues were so serious, a final decision ought not to be taken until the responsible head of the Home Office had had an opportunity of considering all the facts. Without arrogating to the Minister any superhuman powers of intuition, there was the advantage of bringing a fresh mind to bear on the circumstances. In the second place, there should be closer and more active co-ordination between the several Departments, between the police, the Public Prosecutor, and the Criminal department of the Home Office. He could not doubt that if there had been a little more constant communication between the departments associated with the machinery of justice the grave error committed might have been remedied earlier. Lastly, there should be a strengthening of the Criminal Department of the Home Office by an infusion of gentlemen with practical experience of the administration of the law. He dissented altogether from the censure which had been applied to the clerks at the Home Office who prepared the minutes. The high qualifications of first-class clerks in the Civil Service were universally recognised, and anybody with experience at the Home Office must acknowledge with gratitude the efficient service the clerks of that Department rendered. But the burden cast upon them should not be too heavy. They should be adequate in numbers. If the discussion assisted towards the smooth working of the machinery of the Home Office it would be useful, and although nothing could compensate the unfortunate victim of the unhappy blunder, he hoped in the result a recurrence would be prevented.
§ *THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. AKERS692 DOUGLAS, Kent, St. Augustine's) I certainly cannot complain of the excellent tone and temper by which this debate has been characterised. I think we are all actuated by the same idea. We all admit that a grave miscarriage of justice has taken place, and our great desire is to render the recurrence of such a miscarriage impossible. I cannot help thinking that the hon. Member who initiated this debate has not read very carefully either the Report or the recommendations of the Committee, or possibly the case itself, because he has certainly made a suggestion which, with the right hon. Gentleman who has just spoken, I join in strongly repudiating, viz., that there is a charge against the conduct of the police in the matter.
§ *MR. LOUGHsaid his remarks on that point had been entirely misunderstood. He agreed with the right hon. Gentleman the Member for East Fife that the police behaved well in this case, except on one point, and that was the readiness with which the moment a complaint was made they clapped somebody into prison. Why could they not have waited a week or two to make good their case?
§ *MR. AKERS-DOUGLASThat is a different point. It is not what I understood the hon. Gentleman to say, but I at once accept his disclaimer, I am only anxious to make it perfectly clear that the police behaved properly in this case, and that that was the unanimous finding of the Committee. My duty has been greatly lightened by the excellent speech of the right hon. Gentleman opposite in defence of the Department of which he was at one time the head. That defence comes much better from him than it would have done from me who am at present in charge of the Home Office, but I cordially endorse all that he has said about the staff, who, I think, with all deference to the Committee, have received in the Report rather less consideration than they deserved.
But what the Committee will chiefly desire to hear from me is how far we propose to carry out the recommendations of the Committee. Perhaps I might first allude to the appointment 693 of the Committee of Inquiry. I assure the House that when this case was brought to my notice in July last there was no delay whatever in taking action in favour of the unfortunate man Mr. Beck. Directly we were informed by the police that it had been established that John Smith, and not Adolf Beck, was the author of the frauds in 1904, and that there was the strongest possible presumption that John Smith and not Adolf Beck was responsible for the frauds in 1896, we at once took steps for the provisional release of Mr. Beck, which was carried out on July 19th, and was confirmed a few days afterwards by a free pardon in respect of both convictions. A strong desire was expressed at the time, not only that there should be compensation, but also that an exhaustive inquiry should be made into this miscarriage of justice. We at once set about the appointment of a Committee, and I think both this House and the country generally were perfectly satisfied as to the impartiality of the Committee we appointed. We gave the Committee the freest possible hand in the conduct of the inquiry; they had at their disposal every document in the Home Office connected with the case. The Committee themselves state in their Report that every assistance was given them by the officials of the Department, and that they were given a perfectly free hand as to whether their proceedings should be conducted in public or otherwise. I have heard it said that there was considerable delay in the appointment of this Committee. I will only point out in passing that Parliament had separated and the Courts were not sitting, and under such circumstances it is not an easy matter to get together an important Committee of this sort. There was no avoidable delay in the appointment of the Committee, and I am glad to think that the personnel of the Committee give complete satisfaction.
In their Report the Committee, first of all, acquit the police of all blame, and they criticise the action of a prison governor for not fully recording the marks of the convict Smith. They also criticise an officer of the Public Prosecutor's Department, who had charge of the prosecution, for not paying enough 694 attention to facts which might have shown that Mr. Beck was not the same person as Smith. In their next finding the Committee state that the Recorder of London, who tried Mr. Beck in 1896, made the cardinal error which led to the miscarriage of justice by giving a ruling—which the Committee think was wrong in law—that excluded evidence which the Committee believe would have established Mr. Beck's innocence. Then they criticise certain subordinate members of the Home Office staff for failing to see that the evidence which the Judge excluded ought to have been considered, and for failing to see the full bearing on the case of the fact, discovered by the Home Office in 1898, that Smith was circumcised, and that, therefore, Mr. Beck could not be Smith.
What are the recommendations of the Committee based upon that Report? They say, first of all, that as there is at present no power to compel a Judge to state a case for the consideration of the Court of Crown Cases Reserved—if there had been the Committee think the miscarriage would have been remedied—there should be an alteration in the law, and that a short Act should be passed providing that on the motion to the Court of Crown Cases Reserved on good prima facie grounds the Court should have powers to grant a Rule calling on the Crown to support the ruling impugned; in other words, that there should be an alteration in the law to bring up a case to the Court of Crown Cases Reserved, whether the Judge is willing to state a case or not. To meet that recommendation a Bill has been introduced in another place, which, I trust, will before long come before this House. I should like here to say, speaking for myself personally, and, I believe, for several of my colleagues—though the matter has not been considered by the Governmet—that we are in favour of some form of Court of Criminal Appeal, or Court for reviewing criminal cases. Certainly there will be no objection to any proposal of the kind from the Department over which I have the honour to preside.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILLIn matters of practice as well as in matters of law?
§ *MR. AKERS-DOUGLASWe should be out of order in discussing the actual 695 form it should take; I am simply expressing a pious opinion in favour of some form of Court of Criminal Appeal in this country. I say that not on behalf of the Government, because the Government have not considered it, but on my own behalf, and I believe the learned Attorney-General fully shares my views. The next recommendation was that in cases involving reference to a Judge the Public Prosecutor, where he had acted, should be consulted. This recommendation has already been carried out. The next recommendation was referred to by the right hon. Gentleman opposite, viz., that the different public authorities concerned should be better co-ordinated to ensure intercommunication of material information, and to make it impossible that material information acquired by one authority, affecting a particular prisoner, should not be communicated to all. Directions have already been given which will secure this in all criminal cases involving a decision of the Home Secretary.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILLasked whether any directions had been given with reference to giving prisoners access to documents, the Commissioners having strongly commented on the fact that there was no power in criminal cases to require the production of documents.
§ *MR. AKERS-DOUGLASI cannot give a categorical answer on that point, but all the recommendations made by the Committee under this head have been carried out by the Department. Another important point to which attention was called by the Committee was with regard to the recording of previous convictions against prisoners, and the prison orders in that respect have been modified. The regulations as to police identification by witnesses have also been remodelled and strengthened, and the regulations as to prisoners' marks have been wholly recast. Since Smith was convicted in 1877, the old mark system, which, as the House will know, was very unscientific, has been superseded—first by the Bertillon system, which in its turn has given place to the finger-print system, which I believe is for this purpose as nearly perfect as possible. Certainly, that system 696 would have rendered the mistaking of Mr. Beck for Smith an absolute impossibility. I now come to the recommendations of the Committee with regard to the staff at the Home Office. The Committee say that they—
Consider that the failure of the Home Office to rectify the miscarriage of justice was principally due to their want of appreciation of the legal error committed in excluding the evidence for the defence at the 1896 trial, and that the subordinate officials of the Department who deal with criminal work require technical training. They recommend, therefore, that the legal element in the staff should be strengthened.I should like to associate myself with the expressions of regret of the right hon. Gentleman opposite at being unable to see eye to eye with the Committee, with all possible deference. I would express my strong regret that before they recommended so important a change in the organisation of the Criminal Department they did not make a direct inquiry into the present constitution of the department and its working; because if they had done so they would have discovered that considerable changes had taken place in the department since 1897–1898 when this case was considered. I regret that before making these sweeping charges against the department they did not call either Sir K. Digby or Mr. Chalmers to give evidence on the point. Further, I cannot help thinking that the Committee have unintentionally done something less than justice to the junior officials of that department, who were not called before the Committee, and had no opportunity of making any explanation of the charges brought against them. There is no doubt that a regrettable mistake was made, but the responsibility must rest chiefly upon the superiors, and that responsibility was most gallantly and loyally accepted by Sir K. Digby before the Committee. I agree with the right hon. Gentleman opposite that such cases are not likely to recur, but that we desire to make their recurrence absolutely impossible. I consider that with the changes which have been made it will be practically impossible for a case of this sort to occur in future, at all events in the same way or to the same degree. I do not think the difficulty would be met by making the staff 697 a legal staff, as has been suggested. I have every confidence in the criminal branch of the Home Office, and I consider them entirely deserving of the esteem and confidence of the public. Any set of men who had to deal, as they had to deal, with this most unusual case would, in my opinion, have distrusted, as they distrusted, the defence founded on the mere similarity of handwriting, when compared with the overwhelmingly strong direct evidence for the prosecution. It must be remembered that they dealt with the case as it was presented to them in 1898, and not as we now do in the light thrown on it in 1904. That makes a very considerable difference.I should like to associate myself with the remarks of the right hon. Gentleman opposite on the question of strengthening the department. I will only say that we have already relieved the department of a considerable amount of work which they had to perform in addition to their criminal duties, thereby enabling them to concentrate their attention upon those duties. Perhaps the Committee would like to know how that department is manned. At the head of the department there is an Under-Secretary who has had twelve years official experience as one of the County Court Judges of Birmingham, and who has been on several occasions a Commissioner of Assize. He has also been the senior legal Member of the Council of India, and is a lawyer with great experience. The second head of the department is one of the most brilliant Civil servants in this country, and is himself a barrister of some sixteen years standing. The third in the department is also a barrister and has many years experience. It is perfectly true that this particular case was not brought to the attention of the then Secretary of State, Sir Matthew White Ridley; it was dealt with by Sir Kenelm Digby. But I may say, in reference to certain remarks that have been made in the course of the debate, that I am perfectly certain that every single clerk who signs a minute, if he does not write the minute himself, is held to confirm it, and that he never signs it unless he has read it. It seems to be thought that the department is wanting in legal advice. I would point out, on that, that the Secretary of State 698 has not only got the legal assistance of his own Department, but that he can always go, and does constantly go, to the Law Officers of the Crown, and even to the Lord Chancellor himself, for advice, which is never refused. I think, therefore, there is every ground for thinking that the best possible legal opinion in the country is at the disposal of the Secretary of State.
My hon. friend the Member for South Islington expressed the opinion that sufficient compensation had not been given to Mr. Beck. It is, of course, quite impossible to compensate any man adequately for a false imprisonment of six or seven years. The question in such a case is what is a fair solatium to offer in the circumstances. Although the fact does not appear in the Report, this particular matter was most carefully considered by the Committee presided over by the Master of the Rolls, and I am authorised to say that the £5,000 which was given was the sum which was recommended by that Committee, and that it was not included in the Report because they did not think it was within their province to do so. I conferred with the Committee, and I ascertained that that was the amount which they thought was a fair amount to offer, and that sum was offered to Mr. Beck.
§ SIR ALBERT ROLLITasked whether that was done without hearing Mr. Beck in any way.
§ *MR. AKERS-DOUGLASIt was after hearing the whole of the circumstances of the case as put before the Committee. We had to consider this offer relatively with offers which had been made in the past under somewhat similar circumstances. The £5,000 which was offered to Mr. Beck is the largest amount which has ever been offered in this country to any person who has been placed in similar circumstances, and is greatly in excess of anything that has been given on like occasions in other countries. The sum of £5,000 has only been given once before, and it was given in 1858 to Mr. Barber, a solicitor, who was wrongfully convicted and transported to Norfolk Island, where he suffered great hardships. This was the largest amount ever given before. In 1862 £500 was given to Roscovitch, 699 who was convicted of forgery in 1858, and sentenced to six years, penal servitude, of which he served five. It was afterwards discovered that Roscovitch was really guilty, and that he had imposed on the Secretary of State by a clever forgery. In 1879 £1,000 was paid to William Habron, who was convicted of murder, the capital sentence being commuted, and he was subsequently released after three years imprisonment. In 1880 £100 each was paid to Frost and Smith who had been wrongly convictd of burglary; £1,000 to Edmund Galley, a gipsy, convicted of murder in 1836 and transported apparently until 1879, who ultimately received a free pardon and £1,000 "not as an acknowledgment of innocence, but as an act of grace." This occurred in 1881. In 1882 £500 each and expenses were paid to Johnson and Clowes, two respectable farmers who were convicted by perjury of mutilating a man, and who were sentenced to ten years penal servitude, two years of which they served. In 1889 £800 each was paid to Brannagan and Murphy, who were wrongly convicted of burglary and sentenced to penal servitude for life, and they served nine years each. In other cases that have occurred the sums paid have been mostly quite small, ranging between £5 and £10. The only other large sum was £600 paid for a wrongful arrest by the Colchester police, who arrested a man in New Zealand and brought him over to England. In this country and in Italy, Holland, and the United States there are no laws as to compensation, and in Italy, Holland, and the United States no compensation has ever been given. In France there have been twelve cases and the maximum sum paid is £3,000; Belgium, five cases, maximum £40; Germany, one case, £700, and this case is still sub judice; Sweden, 9 cases, maximum £50. I do not see how we could have gone further in this direction, especially having regard to the fact that the Committee which carefully considered the case thought that that would be a proper sum to offer to Mr. Beck.
§ MR. MARKHAM (Nottinghamshire, Mansfield)Will the right hon. Gentleman say "Yes" or "No" to the question, "Did you in the first instance offer Mr. Beck £2,000?"?
§ *MR. AKERS-DOUGLASThe suggestion in that question is that Mr. Beck was first offered £2,000, and that, because of an attack in a certain newspaper, that amount was increased. That is not so. We offered Mr. Beck, I think the amount was £1,500, before we ascertained what his costs were, and then £2,000 was offered, and no alteration of that sum was made until the Committee had considered the whole case—a consideration which entirely altered the gravity of the case. There is no foundation whatever for the suggestion that we were put up to auction, so to speak, by a newspaper.
§ SIR ALBERT ROLLITCan the right hon. Gentleman say whether Mr. Beck had an opportunity of stating to the Committee what was the financial loss he had sustained?
§ *MR. AKERS- DOUGLASMy memory does not serve me on that point, and I cannot say whether Mr. Beck stated what his loss was. But the Committee considered the point, and they suggested that £5,000 would be a right and proper sum to offer. I apologise to the Committee for the length of my remarks. The chief reason of this Motion is not a vote of censure, which does not apply to myself or to any representative of the Home Office, but I understand that it is prompted by a desire to learn what steps the Government had taken to render as far as possible any repetition of such an injustice in the future.
§ MR. ATHERLEY-JONES (Durham, N. W.)said it was most unfortunate that the time for discussion should be so limited, and he trusted and believed that another opportunity would be afforded at no distant date for discussing many of the questions which were involved in this unfortunate miscarriage of justice. This debate had not been thrown away, even if they only took into account the assurance given by the Home Secretary that the Government, with the assistance of the Law Officers of the Crown, were seriously considering the establishment of a Court of Criminal Appeal. He echoed what had fallen from his hon. friend behind him when he said it should not be confined to mere consideration of 701 legal points, but that, under such conditions as might be found practical, a review of the facts of the case should be open to a prisoner who conceived that he had been unjustly convicted. He wished also to associate himself with the expression of opinion from his right hon. and learned friend the Member for East Fife, and the Home Secretary, as to the high character and ability which was displayed by the Home Office officials, and, indeed, by most of the officials of this great Department of State.
He, however, dissociated himself from the somewhat complacent attitude of his right hon. friend the Member for East Fife and his right hon. friend the Secretary for the Home Department. The House was not satisfied with the action and the inaction of the Treasury and of the police in this matter. He was perfectly sure that he was only expressing the opinion generally entertained when he said that the action of the police had not been altogether satisfactory in the matter of this prosecution. That might be partly due to individual remissness and partly to defects in the system. He was perfectly satisfied that the system of identification which was pursued in regard to prisoners was most unsatisfactory. He said so not for the purpose of finding fault, but in order to direct the attention of the Home Secretary to the matter, so that he might cause some alteration in the system of identification. If a man in good position, well dressed, and of genteel appearance was arrested, and had to be paraded for the purpose of identification, he was probably the only one among those presented for identification who had the appearance of a gentleman. That was an unfortunate thing in the case of Mr. Beck. He was well dressed and presented the appearance of the person who undoubtedly did commit the frauds. The identification was effected in the company of corner boys and loafers. He hoped the Home Secretary would consider whether some more effective mode of identification than this could not be secured. Why was it that when a number of women failed to identify Mr. Beck, this information was not sent to the prisoner's solicitor? He had made a careful examination of the evidence and he was perfectly satisfied that facilities were 702 not afforded to the prisoner's counsel or solicitor which might have been. He further called the attention of the Home Secretary to the fact that the prisoner's solicitor applied for documents from time to time to assist him in demonstrating that Mr. Beck and Smith were not one and the same person. These documents were of the most vital importance, for if the solicitor could establish that Mr. Beck and Smith were not the same person, as ultimately turned out to be the fact, Mr. Beck's immediate release would have been attained. The hon. Member did not know that in the whole of his experience of the administration of justice he had ever known a case which provoked one's indignation more than the treatment which Mr. Beck's solicitor received from Sir Robert Anderson. He gave the solicitor the laconic reply that these documents could not be shown and could not be produced. Why not? They were described as confidential. The Inquiry Committee stated that in their judgment there was not the slightest foundation for describing them as confidential. He hoped the House would bear with him when he referred to the peremptory, and what he must describe as the insolent, refusal of the documents. He trusted the Home Secretary would not allow this state of things to continue longer. An inspector and a sergeant of police asked whether, in their opinion, the documents should be produced or not. Could anything be more ludicrous, anything more unintelligent? He hoped that henceforth when it came to the production of any document which might be required in the interest of a prisoner's defence the question whether or not it should be produced would depend on something more than the judgment of an inspector and sergeant of police.
There were other matters in connection with the conduct of the authorities which certainly required elucidation. How was it when the case was presented at the Old Bailey the solicitor of the Treasury, or the gentleman acting for him, instructed his counsel that Smith and Mr. Beck were one and the same person when he knew, as he must have known, that if these two men were different Mr. Beck could not have been guilty. How was it that the 703 counsel for the prosecution was instructed to shut out the admission of evidence which demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt that Mr. Beck was not Smith. He said with a full sense of responsibility that the gentleman who represented the Treasury at the trial deliberately instructed counsel to shut out evidence which would have proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that Smith and Mr. Beck were not identical, and that Smith and the criminal of 1896 were identical. That was a matter which had made an impression on the public mind, because it showed that the conduct of the Treasury was deserving of the most severe censure. It did not end there. The public also wanted to know why Inspector Waldeck was removed from the case.
§ SIR ROBERT FINLAYIf the hon. Member will look at the Report of the Committee he will see these words—
We are quite satisfied that there was nothing whatever to complain of in the conduct of the trial by the prosecution.
§ MR. ATHERLEY-JONESsaid he did not care what the Report said. He had read the evidence. He was perfectly prepared to substantiate the statement he had made. He was animated by no feeling against any of the gentlemen in question. Though the Committee said that they did not think any complaint could be made as to the conduct of the prosecution, he said the public were entitled to something more. They were entitled to look at the evidence. It was
§ not a matter merely of the Beck case. It was a matter of much larger moment. Every Member of the House, and no one more than the right hon. Gentleman who held the high office of Home Secretary, desired that there should be absolute purity in the administration of justice, and at some later time, when it arose again, he would go into the question of the conduct of the Treasury in this prosecution. No adequate explanation had been given why Inspector Waldeck was removed from the case. He was removed on the plea that he was too busy with other duties. It was curious that Waldeck's removal from the case was coincident with the report by him to Mr. Sims that Mr. Beck and Smith were not one and the same person. He dared say it was all capable of explanation. The Daily Mail, though not a paper to which he was favourably disposed, deserved great credit for the part it took in pressing this matter. The public were now watching for the decision at which the Government would arrive.
And, it being half-past Five of the clock, the Chairman, in pursuance of the Order of the House of the 16th March, proceeded to put the Questions necessary to dispose of the Vote under consideration.
§ Question put, "That Item BBB (Compensations for Wrongful Imprisonment) be reduced by £100."—(Mr. Lough.)
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 204; Noes, 257. (Division List No. 69.)
707| AYES | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, NE) | Caldwell, James | Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Cameron, Robert | Duffy, William J. |
| Allen, Charles P. | Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Duncan, J. Hastings |
| Ambrose, Robert | Causton, Richard Knight | Dunn, Sir William |
| Asquith, Rt Hn HerbertHenry | Cawley, Frederick | Edwards, Frank |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Channing, Francis Allston | Ellice, Capt EC(SAndrw'sBghs) |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Cheetham, John Frederick | Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) |
| Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. | Clancy, John Joseph | Emmott, Alfred |
| Bell, Richard | Condon, Thomas Joseph | Esmonde, Sir Thomas |
| Boland John | Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) | Evans,SirFrancisH.(Maidstone) |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Cremer, William Randal | Eve, Harry Trelawney |
| Brigg, John | Crombie, John William | Fenwick, Charles |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Crooks, William | Ferguson. R. C. Munro (Leith) |
| Brown, George M (Edinburgh) | Dalziel, James Henry | Ffrench, Peter |
| Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson | Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan) | Findlay, Flexander(Lanark,NE |
| Bryce, Rt. Hon James | Delany, William | Flavin, Michael Joseph |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Flynn James Christopher |
| Burke, E Haviland- | Dobbie, Joseph | Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) |
| Buxton, Sydney, Charles | Donelan, Captain A. | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry |
| Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Runciman, Walter |
| Fuller, J. M. F. | M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) |
| Furness, Sir Christopher | M'Crae, George | Schwann, Charles E. |
| Gladstone, Rt.Hn.HerbertJohn | M'Kean, John | Seely,MajJ.E.B.(Isle of Wight) |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | M'Kenna, Reginald | Shackleton, David James |
| Grant, Corrie | Markham, Arthur Basil | Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) |
| Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir E. (Berwick | Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh,N.) | Sheehy, David |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Mooney, John J. | Shipman, Dr. John G. |
| Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | Morgan, J.Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Sinclair, John (Forfarshire) |
| Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard | Morley,Rt.Hon John(Montrose) | Slack, John Bamford |
| Hammond, John | Moss, Samuel | Smith, Samuel (Flint) |
| Harmsworth, R. Leicester | Moulton, John Fletcher | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Harrington, Timothy | Murphy, John | Soares, Ernest J. |
| Harwood, George | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Spencer, Rt. Hn. C. R.(Northants |
| Hayden, John Patrick | Newnes, Sir George | Stanhope, Hon. Philip James |
| Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D | Norman, Henry | Stevenson, Francis S. |
| Helme, Norval Watson | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Strachey, Sir Edward |
| Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. | Nussey, Thomas Willans | Sullivan, Donal |
| Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | O'Brien, F. X. (Cork) | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Higham, John Sharpe | O'Brien,Kendal(TipperaryMid) | Tennant, Harold John |
| Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.) | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E. |
| Holland, Sir William Henry | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) | Thomson, F. W. (York, W.R.) |
| Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) | O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W.) | Tomkinson, James |
| Horniman, Frederick John | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N. | Toulmin, George |
| Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | O'Dowd, John | Ure, Alexander |
| Jacoby, James Alfred | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose |
| Johnson, John | O'Kelly, James(Roscommon,N | Wallace, Robert |
| Joicey, Sir James | O'Malley, William | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Jones,David Brynmor (Swansea | O'Mara, James | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Jones, Leif (Appleby) | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
| Jones, William(Carnarvonshire) | Partington, Oswald | Wason, JohnCathcart(Orkney) |
| Jordan, Jeremiah | Paulton, James Mellor | Weir, James Galloway |
| Kearley, Hudson E. | Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) | White, Luke (York, E.R.) |
| Kilbride, Denis | Perks, Robert William | White, Patrick (Meath, N.) |
| Kitson, Sir James | Power, Patrick Joseph | Whiteley, George (York, W.R.) |
| Labouchere, Henry | Price, Robert John | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Lambert, George | Priestley, Arthur | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Lamont, Norman | Rea, Russell | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Langley, Batty | Reckitt, Harold James | Wills, Arthur Walters(N.Dorset |
| Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) | Reddy, M. | Wilson, John (Durham Mid.) |
| Layland-Barratt, Francis | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Wilson, John (Falkirk) |
| Leese, SirJosephF.(Accrington) | Richards,Thomas(W.Monm'th) | Wood, James |
| Levy, Maurice | Rickett, J. Compton | Woodhouse,SirJT.(Huddersf'd) |
| Lewis, John Herbert | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs) | Young, Samuel |
| Lloyd-George, David | Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Lundon, W. | Robson, William Snowdon | |
| Lyell, Charles Henry | Roche, John | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. |
| Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Roe, Sir Thomas | Lough and Mr. Atherley. |
| MacNeill, John Gordon Swift | Rose, Charles Day | Jones. |
| NOES. | ||
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Banner, John S. Harmood | Butcher, John George |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Barry, Sir Francis T. (Windsor) | Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. |
| Allhusen, AugustusHenryEden | Bartley, Sir George C. T | Cavendish, V.C.W.(Derbyshire |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Bathurst, Hon Allen Benjamin | Cayzer, Sir Charles William |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Beach,RtHn.Sir MichaelHicks | Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) |
| Arnold-Forster, Rt.Hn.HughO | Bentinck, Lord Henry C | Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) |
| Arrold, Sir William | Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Chamberlain,RtHn.J A.(Worc, |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Bignold, Sir Arthur | Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry |
| Aubrey-Fletcher,Rt.Hon.SirH. | Bigwood, James | Chapman, Edward |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline Fitzroy | Bingham, Lord | Clive, Captain Percy A. |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Blundell, Colonel Henry | Coates, Edward Feetham |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Bond, Edward | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. |
| Baird, John George Alexander | Boscawen, Arthur Griffith. | Coghill, Douglas Harry |
| Balcarres, Lord | Bowles,Lt.-Col.HF.(Middlesex) | Cohen, Benjamin Louis |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Brassey, Albert | Collings, Rt Hon. Jesse |
| Balfour,RtHon.A.J.(Manch'r.) | Brodrick, Rt, Hon. St. John | Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole |
| Balfour,RtHn Gerald W.(Leeds | Brotherton, Edward Allen | Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas |
| Balfour,Kenneth R. (Christch.) | Bull, William James | Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Burdett-Coutts, W. | Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge. |
| Craig, CharlesCurtis (Antrim, S.) | Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H. | Randles, John S. |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T (Denbigh | Rankin, Sir James |
| Cross, Herb Shepherd (Bolton) | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt Hon CoI.W | Ratcliff, R. F. |
| Crossley, Rt Hon. Sir Savile | Kerr, John | Reid, James (Greenock) |
| Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Keswick, William | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Dalrymple, Sir Charles | Kimber, Sir Henry | Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine |
| Davenport, William Bromley. | King, Sir Henry Seymour | Renwick, George |
| Davies,SirHoratioD.(Chatham) | Laurie, Lieut.-General | Ridley, S. Forde |
| Denny, Colonel | Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) | Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) |
| Dickinson, Robert Edmund | Lawrence,SirJoseph (Monm'th) | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Dickson, Charles Scott | Lawson,Hn H.L.W (Mile End) | Robinson, Brooke |
| Dimsdale, Rt.Hon.SirJosephC. | Lawson, JohnGrant(Yorks NR | Rolleston, Sir John F. L. |
| Dorington, Rt Hon Sir John E. | Lee,ArthurH (Hants,Fareham) | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers. | Legge, Col Hon Heneage | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
| Dyke, Rt.Hon.SirWilliamHart | Leveson-Gower, FrederickN S | Round, Rt. Hon. James |
| Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Llewellyn, Evan Henry | Royds, Clement Molyneux |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Lockwood, Lieut-Col. A. R. | Rutherford, John (Lancashire) |
| Fergusson,Rt Hn. SirJ.(Manc'r) | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) |
| Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Long,Col.Charles W.(Evesham) | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford |
| Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Lang,Rt.Hn.Walter (Bristol,S.) | Samuel,SirHarryS. (Limehouse |
| Finlay,SirR B.(Inv'rn'ssB'ghs) | Lowe, Francis William | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Lowther, C. (Cumb, Eskdale) | Seton-Karr, Sir Henry |
| FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose | Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Fitzroy, Hon. EdwardAlgernon | Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) | Sinclair, Louis Romford |
| Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Lucas, Reginald J.(Portsmouth | Skewes-Cox, Thomas |
| Flower, Sir Ernest | Lyttelton, Rt, Hon. Alfred | Smith,Abel H. (Hertford,East) |
| Forster, Henry William | Macdona, John Cumming | Smith,H.C(North'mb, Tynside) |
| Foster,PhilipS.(Warwick,S.W.) | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Smith,RtHnJ.Parker(Lanarks) |
| Galloway, William Johnson | Maconochie, A. W. | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Gardner, Ernest | M'Arthur, Charles Liverpool) | Spencer, Sir E. (W.Bromwich) |
| Garfit, William | M'Calmont, Colonel James | Stanley,Hon.Arthur(Ormskirk) |
| Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. | M'Iver,SirLewis(Edinburgh,W) | Stanley, Rt.Hon. Lord (Lancs.) |
| Godson, SirAugustusFrederick | Majendie, James A. H. | Stewart, Sir J.MarkM'Taggart |
| Gordon,Hn.J E.(Elgin&Nairn) | Manners, Lord Cecil | Stock, James Henry |
| Gordon,MajEvans-(T'rH'mlets | Marks, Harry Hananel | Stroyan, John |
| Gorst, Rt, Hon. Sir John Eldon | Martin, Richard Biddulph | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Goschen, Hon. George Joachim | Maxwell, W.J.H.(Dumfriesshire | Talbot,Rt.Hn.J G.(Oxf'dUniv. |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Mildmay, Francis Bignham | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) |
| Graham, Henry Robert | Milvain, Thomas | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Molesworth, Sir Lewis | Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. |
| Greene,HenryD. (Shrewsbury) | Montagu,Hon.J.Scott (Hants.) | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Tuff, Charles |
| Greville, Hon. Ronald | Morgan,DavidJ (Walthamatow | Tuke, Sir John Batty |
| Hain, Edward | Morpeth, Viscount | Turnour, Viscount |
| Halsey Rt, Hon. Thomas F. | Morrell, George Herbert | Vincent,Col. Sir CEH (Sheffield) |
| Hambro, Charles Eric | Morrison, James Archibald | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Hamilton, Marq. of(L'nd'nderry | Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer | Walrond Rt. Hn. Sir William H. |
| Hare, Thomas Leigh | Mount, William Arthur | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th) | Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. | Warde, Col. C. E. |
| Haslam, Sir Alfred S. | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Welby. Lt.-Col.AC'.E. (Taunton) |
| Hay, Hon. Claude George | Murray, Col. Wyndham Bath) | Welby, Sir Charles G.E (Notts.) |
| Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley | Myers, William Henry | Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd |
| Heath, SirJames(Staffords.NW | Nicholson, William Graham | Whiteley,H.(Ashton-und.Lyne) |
| Helder, Augustus | Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. | Parker, Sir Gilbert | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset) |
| Hogg, Lindsay | Parkes, Ebenezer | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.) |
| Hornby, Sir William Henry | Peel, Hon. William Robert | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Horner, Frederick William | Peel,Hn.Wm Robert Wellesley | Wilson-Todd, SirW.H.(Yorks |
| Hoult, Joseph | Pemberton, John S. G. | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Howard,John(Kent,Faversham | Percy, Earl | Worsley-Taylor, HenryWilson |
| Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham | Pierpoint, Robert | Wortley, Rt. Hon C. B. Stuart |
| Hozier, Hon.James HenryCecil | Pilkington, Colonel Richard | Wylie, Alexander |
| Hudson, George Bickersteth | Platt-Higgins, Frederick | |
| Hunt, Rowland | Plummer, Sir Walter R. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir |
| Hutton, John (Yorks. N. R.) | Pretyman, Ernest George | Alexander Acland-Hood and |
| Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Viscount Valentia. |
| Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred | Purvis, Robert | |
| Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton | Pym, C. Guy |
§ Original Question put, "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £12,000, 708 be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of 709 payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1905, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Departments of the Solicitor for the affairs of His Majesty's Treasury, King's Proctor, and Director
710§ of Public Prosecutions, the Cost of Prosecutions, and other Legal Prosecutions."
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 257; Noes, 209. (Division List No. 70.)
713| AYES | ||
| Agg-Gardener, James Tynte | Dalrymple, Sir Charles | Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Davenport, William Bromley- | Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) |
| Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden | Davies, Sir Horatio, D (Chatham) | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Denny, Colonel | Kerr, John |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Dickinson, Robert Edmund | Keswick, William |
| Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. Hugh O. | Dickson, Charles Scott | Kimber Sir Henry |
| Arrol, Sir William | Dimsdale, Rt. Hon. Sir Joseph C. | King, Sir Henry Seymour |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon John | Dorington, Rt. Hn. Sir John E. | Laurie, Lieut.-General |
| Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon Sir H | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart | Lawrence, Sir Joseph (Monm'th) |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (Mile End) |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn, Edward | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks. NR |
| Baird, John George Alexander | Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J (Manc'r. | Lee, Arthur H (Hants, Fareham |
| Balcarres, Lord | Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r | Finlay, Sir RB (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs) | Llewellyn, Evan Henry |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W.(Leeds | Fisher, William Hayes | Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R |
| Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch.) | FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose- | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | FitzRoy, Hon. Edward Algernon | Long, Col Charles W (Evesham) |
| Banner, John S Harmood- | Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. |
| Banbury, Sir Francis T. (Windsor) | Flower, Sir Ernest | Lowe, Francis William |
| Bartley, Sir George C. T. | Forster, Henry William | Lowther C. (Cumb. Eskdale) |
| Bathurst, Hon Allen Benjamin | Galloway, William Johnson | Loyd, Archie Kirkman |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir Michael Hicks | Gardner, Ernest | Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Garfit, William | Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth) |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred |
| Bignold, Sir Arthur | Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick | Macdona, John Cumming |
| Bigwood, James | Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn) | MacIver, David (Liverpool) |
| Bingham, Lord | Gordon, Maj Evans-(T'r H'mlets | Maconochie, A. W. |
| Blunden, Colonel Henry | Gorst, Rt Hon Sir John Eldon | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) |
| Bond, Edward | Goschen, Hon. George Joachim | M'Calmont, Colonel James |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith | Goulding, Edward Alfred | M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W |
| Bowles, Lt.-Col. H. F. (Middlesex | Graham, Henry Robert | Majendie, James A. H. |
| Brassey, Albert | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Manners, Lord Cecil |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) | Marks, Harry Hananel |
| Brotherton, Edward Allen | Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) | Martin, Richard Biddulph |
| Bull, William James | Greville, Hon. Ronald | Maxwell, W. H. (Dumfrieshire |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Hain, Edward | Mildmay, Francis Bingham |
| Butcher, John George | Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. | Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G |
| Campbell, Rt. Hn. J A. (Glasgow) | Hambro, Charles Eric | Milvain, Thomas |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Hamilton, Marq of (L'nd'nderry | Molesworth, Sir Lewis |
| Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbyshire | Hare, Thomas Leigh | Montagu, Hon. Scott (Hants.) |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th) | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Haslam, Sir Alfred S. | Morgan, David J.(Walthamstow |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Hay, Hon Claude George | Morpeth, Viscount |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. E (Worc) | Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Chapman, Edward | Heath, Sir James (Staffords NW | Morrison, James Archibald |
| Clive, Captain Percy A | Helder, Augustus | Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer |
| Coates, Edward Feetham | Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. | Mount, William Arthur |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Hogg, Lindsay | Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside | Murray Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Hornby, Sir William Henry | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Horner, Frederick William | Myers, William Henry |
| Colston, Chas, Edw. H. Athole | Hoult, Joseph | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas | Howard, John (Kent, Faversham | Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham | Parker, Sir Gilbert |
| Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge | Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S.) | Hudson, George Bickersteth | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington) |
| Cripps, Charles Alfred | Hunt, Rowland | Peel, Hon. Wm. Robert Wellesley |
| Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) | Hutton, John (Yorks. N. R.) | Pemberton, John S. G. |
| Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile | Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse | Percy, Earl |
| Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Cust, Henry John C. | Jessel, Captain Herbert Morton | Pilkington, Colonel Richard |
| Plummer, Sir Walter R. | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W. | Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter) |
| Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Seton-Karr, Sir Henry | Walker Col. William Hall |
| Purvis, Robert | Simeon, Sir Harrington | Walrond, Rt. Hon. Sir William |
| Pym, C. Guy | Sinclair, Louis (Romford) | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Randles, John S. | Skewes-Cox, Thomas | Warde, Col. C. E. |
| Rankin, Sir James | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) | Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E. (Taunton) |
| Ratcliff, R. F. | Smith, H. C (North'mb. Tyneside | Welby, Sir Charles G. E (Notts.) |
| Reid, James (Greenock) | Smith, Rt Hn J Parker (Lanark) | Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd |
| Remnant, James Farquharson | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | Whiteley, H (Ashton-und. Lyne) |
| Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine | Spencer, Sir E. (W. Bromwich) | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Renwick, George | Stan ey, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs.) | Williams Colonel R. (Dorset) |
| Ridley, S. Forde | Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) | Stock, James Henry | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.) |
| Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) | Stroyan, John | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Robinson, Brooke | Ta bot, Lord E. (Chichester) | Wilson-Todd, Sir W. H. (Yorks.) |
| Rolleston, Sir John F. L. | Talbot, Rt Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv.) | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson |
| Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert | Thornton, Percy M. | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart |
| Round, Rt. Hon. James | Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. | Wylie, Alexander |
| Royds, Clement Molyneux | Tritton, Charles Ernest | |
| Rutherford, John (Lancashire) | Tuff, Charles | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir |
| Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) | Tuke, Sir John Batty | Alexander Acland-Hood and |
| Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford | Turnour, Viscount | Viscount Valentia. |
| Samuel, Sir Harry S. (Limehouse | Vincent, Col. C. E. H Sir (Sheffield | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) | Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) | Horniman, Frederick John |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Duffy, William J. | Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. |
| Allen, Charles P. | Duncan, J. Hastings | Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) |
| Ambrose, Robert | Dunn, Sir William | Jacoby, James Alfred |
| Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry | Edwards, Frank | Johnson, John |
| Atherley-Jones, L. | Ellice, Capt EC (S. Andrew's Bghs | Joicey, Sir James |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) | Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea) |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Emmott, Alfred | Jones, Leif (Appleby) |
| Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Jordan, Jeremiah |
| Bell, Richard | Evans, Sir Francis H.(Maidstone | Kearley, Hudson E. |
| Boland, John | Eve, Harry Trelawney | Kilbride, Denis |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Fenwick, Charles | Kitson, Sir James |
| Brigg, John | Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) | Labouchere, Henry |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Ffrench, Peter | Lambert, George |
| Brown, George M. (Edinburgh) | Findlay, Alexander (Lanark, NE. | Lamont, Norman |
| Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Langley, Batty |
| Bryce, Rt. Hon. James | Flynn, James Christopher | Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.) |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Foster, Sir Walter (Derby, Co.) | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
| Burns, John | Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. | Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington) |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Fuller, J. M. F. | Levy, Maurice |
| Caldwell, James | Furness, Sir Christopher | Lewis, John Herbert |
| Cameron, Robert | Goddard, Daniel Ford | Lloyd-George, David |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Grant, Corrie | Lough, Thomas |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir E. (Berwick) | Lundon, W. |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Griffith, Ellis J. | Lyell, Charles Henry |
| Cawley, Frederick | Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Haldane, Rt, Hon. Richard B. | MacVeagh, Jeremiah |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Hammond, John | M'Crae, George |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Harmsworth, R. Leicester | K'Kean, John |
| Condon, Thos. Joseph | Harrington, Timothy | M'Kenna, Reginald |
| Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) | Harwood, George | Markham, Arthur Basil |
| Cremer, William Randal | Hayden, John Patrick | Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.) |
| Crombie, John William | Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D. | Mooney, John J. |
| Crooks, William | Helme, Norval Watson | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. | Morley, Rt. Hn. John (Montrose) |
| Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan) | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Moss, Samuel |
| Delany, William | Higham, John Sharpe | Moulton, John Fletcher |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.) | Murphy, John |
| Dobbie, Joseph | Holland, Sir William Henry | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) | Newnes, Sir George |
| Norman, Henry | Rickett, J. Compton | Toulmin, George |
| Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Nussey, Thomas Willans | Robson, William Snowdon | Ure, Alexander |
| O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Roche, John | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose |
| O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid) | Roe, Sir Thomas | Wallace, Robert |
| O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Rose, Charles Day | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| O'Brien, P. J. (Tepperary, N.) | Runciman, Walter | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T |
| O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan |
| O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Schwann, Charles E. | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Seely, Maj J. E. B. (Isle of Wight) | Weir, James Galloway |
| O'Dowd, John | Shackleton, David James | White, George (Norfolk) |
| O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) | Shaw, Thomas (Hawick, B.) | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N) | Sheehy, David | White, Patrick (Meath, North |
| O'Malley, William | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Whiteley, George (York, W.R.) |
| O'Mara, James | Sinclair, John (Forfarshire) | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Slack, John (Bamford) | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Partington, Oswald | Smith, Samuel (Flint) | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Paulton, James Mellor | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Wills, Arthur Walters (N. Dorset |
| Pease, J A. (Saffron Walden) | Soares, Ernest J. | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) |
| Perks, Robert William | Spencer, Rt Hn. C. R. (Northant) | Wilson, John (Falkirk) |
| Power, Patrick Joseph | Stanhope, Hon. Philip James | Wood, James |
| Price, Robert John | Stevenson, Francis S. | Woodhouse, Sir J. T (Huddersf'd |
| Priestley, Arthur | Strachey, Sir Edward | Young, Samuel |
| Rea, Russell | Sullivan, Donal | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Reckitt, Harold James | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffes | |
| Reddy, M. | Tennant, Harold John | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. |
| Redmond, John E, (Waterford) | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) | Herbert Gladstone and Mr. |
| Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries) | Thomson, F. W. (York, W.R.) | William M'Arthur. |
| Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'th) | Tomkinson, James |
§ The Chairman, pursuant to the Order of the House of the 16th March, then proceeded to put forthwith the Question, "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £63,930, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the31st day of March, 1905, for Expenditure on the following Services included in the Civil Services Supplementary Estimates, 1904–5.
| The Committee divided:—Ayes, 262; Noes, 207. (Division List No. 71.) |
| AYES | ||
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Bartley, Sir George C. T. | Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin | Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire) |
| Allhusen, Augnstus Henry Eden | Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir Michael Hicks | Cayzer, Sir Charles William |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) |
| Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn Hugh O. | Bignold, Sir Arthur | Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.A (Worc.) |
| Arrol, Sir William | Bigwood, James | Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Bingham, Lord | Chapman, Edward |
| Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. | Blundell, Colonel Henry | Clive, Captain Percy A. |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Bond, Edward | Coates, Edward Feetham |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. |
| Baird, John George Alexander | Bousfield, William Robert | Coghill, Douglas Harry |
| Balcarres, Lord | Bowles, Lt-Col H. F. (Middlesex) | Cohen, Benjamin Louis |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Brassey, Albert | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r) | Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds) | Brotherton, Edward Allen | Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas |
| Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch.) | Bull, William James | Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Burdett-Coutts, W. | Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge |
| Banner, John S. Harmood- | Butcher, John George | Craig, Charles Curtis (Antrim, S. |
| Barry, Sir Francis T.(Windsor) | Campbell, Rt. Hn J. A. (Glasgow) | Cripps, Charles Alfred |
| CLASS III. | £ |
| County Courts | 10 |
| Reformatory and Industrial Schools, Ireland | 860 |
| Dundrum Criminal Lunatic Asylum, Ireland | 60 |
| CLASS IV. | |
| Scientific Investigations, etc. | 9,000 |
| CLASS V. | |
| Protectorates | 54,000 |
| £63,930 |
| Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) | Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) | Rankin, Sir James |
| Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Saville | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W. | Ractliff, R. F. |
| Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Kerr, John | Reid, James (Greenock) |
| Cust, Henry John C. | Keswick, William | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Dalrymple, Sir Charles | Kimber, Sir Henry | Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine |
| Davenport, William Bromley | King, Sir Henry Seymour | Renwick, George |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chatham) | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Ridley, S. Forde |
| Denny, Colonel | Laurie, Lieut.-General | Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) |
| Dickinson, Robert Edmond | Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Dickson, Charles Scott | Lawrence, Sir Joseph (Monm'th) | Robinson, Brooke |
| Dimsdale, Rt. Hn. Sir Joseph C. | Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (Mile End) | Rolleston, Sir John F. L. |
| Dorington, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks. N. R | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers | Lee, Arthur H.(Hants, Fareham) | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
| Duke, Henry Edward | Leggge, Col. Hon. Heneage | Round, Rt. Hon. James |
| Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart | Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S. | Royds, Clement Molyneux |
| Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Llewellyn, Evan Henry | Rutherford, John (Lancashire) |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. | Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) |
| Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Man'cr) | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford |
| Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham) | Samuel, Sir Harry S. (Limehouse) |
| Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S.) | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Finlay, Sir R. B. (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs) | Lowe, Francis William | Seton-Karr, Sir Henry |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Lowther, C. (Cumb, Eskdale) | Shaw-Stewart, Sir H (Renfrew) |
| FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose | Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon | Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) | Sinclair, Louis (Romford) |
| Flannery, Sir Fortescue | Lucas, Reginald J.(Portsmouth | Skewes-Cox, Thomas |
| Flower, Sir Ernest | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) |
| Forster, Henry William | Macdona, John Cumming | Smith. H. C. (North'mbTyneside |
| Galloway, William Johnson | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Smith, Rt. Hn J. Parker (Lanarks) |
| Garfit, William | Maconochie, A. W. | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Spear, John Ward |
| Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick | M'Calmont, Colonel James | Spencer, Sir E. (W. Bromwich) |
| Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn) | M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh W | Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs.) |
| Gordon, Maj. Evans (T'rH'mlets | Majendie, James A. H. | Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart |
| Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon | Manners, Lord Cecil | Stock, James Henry |
| Goschen, Hon. George Joachim | Marks, Harry Hananel | Stroyan, John |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Martin, Richard Biddulph | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Graham, Henry Robert | Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriesshire | Talbot, Rt, Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv. |
| Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Mildmay, Francis Bingham | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) |
| Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) | Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G. | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.) | Milvain, Thomas | Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. |
| Greville, Hon. Ronald | Molesworth, Sir Lewis | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Guthrie, Walter Murray | Montagu, Hon J. Scott (Hants.) | Tuff, Charles |
| Hain, Edward | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Tuke, Sir John Batty |
| Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. | Morgan, David J (Walthamstow) | Turnour, Viscount |
| Hambro, Charles Eric | Morpeth, Viscount | Vincent, Col Sir C. E. H (Sheffield) |
| Hamilton, Marq. of (L'nd'nderry | Morrell, George Herbert | Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter) |
| Hare, Thomas Leigh | Morrison, James Archibald | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th) | Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer | Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H. |
| Haslam, Sir Alfred S. | Mount, William Arthur | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Hay, Hon. Claude George | Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. | Warde, Colonel C. E |
| Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (Taunton) |
| Heath, Sir James (Staffords, N. W | Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.) |
| Helder, Augustus | Myers, William Henry | Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd |
| Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. | Nicholson, William Graham | Whiteley, H. Ashton-und. Lyne |
| Hogg, Lindsay | Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside | Parker, Sir Gilbert | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset) |
| Hornby, Sir William Henry | Parkes, Ebenezer | Willoughby de Eresby. Lord |
| Horner, Frederick William | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darl'ngton) | Wilson, A. Stanley (York., E.R.) |
| Hoult, Joseph | Peel, Hn. W. Robert Wellesley | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Howard, John (Kent Faversham | Pemberton, John S. G. | Wilson-Todd, Sir W. H. (Yorks.) |
| Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham | Percy, Earl | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil | Pierpoint, Robert | Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson |
| Hudson, George Bickersteth | Pilkington, Colonel Richard | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart |
| Hunt, Rowland | Platt-Higgins, Frederick | Wylie, Alexander |
| Hutton, John (Yorks., N. R.) | Plummer, Sir Walter R. | |
| Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | TELLERS FOR THE AYES-Sir |
| Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. | Purvis, Robert | Alexander Acland-Hood and |
| Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton | Pym, C. Guy | Viscount Valentia. |
| Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. | Randles, John S. |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) | Allen, Charles P. | Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Ambrose, Robert | Atherley-Jones, L. |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D. | Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Helme, Norval Watson | Perks, Robert William |
| Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. | Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Bell, Richard | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Price, Robert John |
| Boland, John | Higham, John Sharpe | Priestley, Arthur |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E. | Rea, Russell |
| Brigg, John | Holland, Sir William Henry | Reckitt Harold J. |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) | Reddy, M. |
| Brown, George M. (Edinburgh) | Horniman, Frederick John | Redmond John E. (Waterford |
| Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson | Hutchinson Dr. Charles Fredk. | Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries) |
| Bryce, Rt. Hon. James | Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'th |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Jacoby, James Alfred | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Burke, E. Haviland | Johnson, John | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Burns, John | Joicey, Sir James | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Jones David Brynmor (Swansea | Roche, John |
| Caldwell, James | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Cameron, Robert | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire | Rose, Charles Day |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Jordan, Jeremiah | Runciman, Walter |
| Campbell Bannerman, Sir H. | Kearley, Hudson E. | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) |
| Causton Richard Knight | Kilbride, Denis | Schwann, Charles E. |
| Cawley, Frederick | Kitson, Sir James | Seely, Maj JEB (Isle of Wight) |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Shackleton, David James | |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Labouchere, Henry | Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Lambert, George | Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Lamont, Norman | Sheehy, David |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Langley, Batty | Shipman, Dr. John G. |
| Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) | Law, Hugh Alex (Donegal, W.) | Sinclair, john (Forfarshire) |
| Cremer, William Randal | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) | Slack, John Bamford |
| Crombie, John William | Layland-Barratt, Francis | Smith, Samuel Flint |
| Cooks, William | Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington) | Soames Arthur Wellesley |
| Levy Maurice | Soares, Ernest J. | |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Lewis, John Herbert | Spencer, Rt. Hn. C R. (Northants |
| Davies M. Vaughan' (Cardigan) | Lloyd, George David | Stanhope, Hon. Philip James |
| Delany, William | Lough, Thomas | Stevenson, Francis S. |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Lundon, W. | Strachey, Sir Edward |
| Dobbie, Joseph | Lyell, Charles Henry | Sullivan, Donal |
| Donelan, Captain A. | ||
| Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
| Duffy, William J. | MacNeil, John Gordon Swift | Tennant, Harold John |
| Duncan, J. Hastings | MacVeagh, Jeremiah | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E. |
| Dunn, Sir William | McCrae, George | Thomson, F.W. (York, W.R.) |
| Edwards, Frank | M'Kean, John | Tomkinson, James |
| M'Kenna, Reginald | Toulmin, George | |
| Ellice, Capt. E.C(S Andrw'sBghs | Markham, Arthur Basil | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) | Mitchel, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.) | Ure, Alexander |
| Emmott, Alfred | Mooney, John J. | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose |
| Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Wallace, Robert |
| Evans,SirFrancisH(Maidstone) | Morley, Rt. Hn. John (Montrose | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Eve, Harry Trelawney | Moss, Samuel | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Fenwick, Charles | Moulton, John Fletcher | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
| Ferguson, R.C. Munro (Leith) | Murphy, John | Wason, John Catheart(Orkney) |
| Ffrench, peter | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Weir, James Galloway |
| Findlay, Alexander(LanarkNE | Newnes, Sir George | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Norman, Henry | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Flynn, James Christopher | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Whiteley, George (York, W. R. |
| Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) | Nussey, Thomas Willans | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | ||
| Freeman-Thomas, Captain, F. | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Whittaker, Thomas palmer |
| Fuller, J. M. F. | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid) | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Furness, sir Christopher | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Wills, Arthur Walters (N Dorset) |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary N.) | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) |
| Grant, Corrie | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) | Wilson, John (Falkirk) |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Wood, James |
| Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersf'd) |
| Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | O'Dowd, John | Young, Samuel |
| Haldane, Rt. Hon, Richard B. | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Hammond, John | O'Malley, William | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Harmsworth, R. Leicester | O'Mara, James | Mr. Herbert Gladstone and |
| Harrington, Timothy | O'Shaughenssy, P. J. | Mr. William M'Arthur. |
| Harwood, George | Partington, Oswald | |
| Hayden, John Patrick | Paulton, James Mellor |
§ Question put, "That the Chairman do report these Resolutions to the House."
720§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 256; Noes, 205. (Division List No. 72.)
| Ratcliff, R. F. | Skewes-Cox, Thomas | Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H. |
| Reid, James (Greenock) | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) | Warde, Colonel C. E |
| Remnant, James Farquharson | Smith, H.C (North'mb Tyneside | Welby, Lt.-Col A. C. E. (Taunton) |
| Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine | Smith, Rt. Hn J Parker (Lanarks.) | Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.) |
| Renwick, George | Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand) | Wharton, Rt. Hn. John Lloyd |
| Ridley, S. Forde | Spencer, Sir E. (W. Bromwich) | Whiteley, H. (Ashton und Lyno |
| Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) | Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs.) | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) | Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset) |
| Robinson Brooke | Stock, James Henry | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
| Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Stroyan, John | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.) |
| Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Round, Rt. Hon. James | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Wilson-Todd, Sir W H. (Yorks.) |
| Royds, Clement Molyneux | Thornton, Percy M. | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
| Rutherford, John (Lancashire) | Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. | Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson |
| Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) | Tritton, Charles Ernest | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C., B. Stuart |
| Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford | Tuff, Charles | Wylie, Alexander |
| Samuel, Sir Harry S. (Limehouse) | Tuke, Sir John Batty | |
| Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) | Turnour, Viscount | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir |
| Seton-Karr, Sir Henry | Vincent, Col Sir C. E. H (Sheffield) | Alexander Acland-Hood |
| Shaw-Stewart, Sir H. (Renfrew | Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter) | and Viscount Valentia. |
| Sinclair, Louis (Romford) | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) | Ellis, John Edward (Notts) | Lambert, George |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Emmott, Alfred | Lamont, Norman |
| Allen, Charles P. | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Langley, Batty |
| Ambrose, Robert | Evans, Sir Francis H (Maidstone) | Law, Hugh Alex (Donegal, W.) |
| Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry | Eve, Harry Trelawney | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) |
| Atherley-Jones L. | Fenwick, Charles | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) | Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington) |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Ffrench, Peter | Levy, Maurice |
| Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. | Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.) | Lewis, John Herbert |
| Bell, Richard | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Lloyd-George, David |
| Boland, John | Flynn, James Christopher | Lough, Thomas |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) | Lundon, W. |
| Brigg, John | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Lyell, Charles Henry |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. |
| Brown, George M. (Edinburgh) | Fuller, J. M. F. | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift |
| Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson | Furness, Sir Christopher | MacVeagh, Jeremiah |
| Bryce, Rt. Hon. James | Goddard, Daniel Ford | M'Crae, George |
| Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Grant, Corrie | M'Kean, John |
| Burke, E. Haviland | Grey, Rt. Hn. Sir E. (Berwic | M'Kenna, Reginald |
| Burns, John | Griffith, Ellis J. | Markham, Arthur Basil |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill | Mitchell, Ed. (Fermanagh, N.) |
| Caldwell, James | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | Mooney, John J. |
| Cameron, Robert | Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Hammond, John | Moss, Samuel |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Harrington, Timothy | Moulton, John Fletcher |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Harwood, George | Murphy, John |
| Cawley, Frederick | Hayden, John Patrick | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Hayter, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur D. | Newnes, Sir George |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Helme, Norval Watson | Norman Henry |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Charles H. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Higham, John Sharpe | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) |
| Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) | Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.) | O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid) |
| Cremer, William Randal | Holland, Sir William Henry | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Crombie, John William | Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) |
| Crooks, William | Horniman, Frederick John | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Hutchinson, Dr. Chas. Fredk. | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
| Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan) | Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
| Delany, William | Jacoby, James Alfred | O'Dowd, John |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Johnson, John | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) |
| Dobbie, Joseph | Joicey, Sir James | O'kelly, James (Roscommon, N) |
| Donelan, Captain A. | Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea | O'Malley, William |
| Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | O'Mara, James |
| Duffy, William J. | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Duncan, J. Hastings | Jordan, Jeremiah | Partington, Oswald |
| Dunn, Sir William | Kearley Hudson E. | Paulton, James Mellor |
| Edwards, Frank | Kilbride, Denis | Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) |
| Elice, Capt E C (S. Andrw's Bghs) | Kitson, Sir James | Perks, Robert William |
| Power, Patrick Joseph | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Price, Robert John | Sinclair, John (Forfarshire) | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
| Priestley, Arthur | Slack, John Bamford | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
| Rea, Russell | Smith, Samuel (Flint) | Weir, James Galloway |
| Reckitt, Harold James | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Reddy, M. | Soares, Ernest J. | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Spencer, Rt. Hn C. R (Northants) | Whiteley, George (York, W. R.) |
| Reid, Sir R Threshie (Dumfries) | Stanhope, Hon. Philip James | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Richards, Thos. (W. Monm'th | Stevenson, Francis S. | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Rickett, J. Compton | Strachey, Sir Edward | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) | Sullivan, Donal | Wills, Arthur Walters (N Dorset) |
| Robson, William Snowdon | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.) |
| Roche, John | Tennant, Harold John | Wilson, John (Falkirk) |
| Roe, Sir Thomas | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) | Wood, James |
| Rose, Charles Day | Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R) | Woodhouae, Sir J T (Huddersf'd) |
| Runciman, Walter | Tomkinson, James | Young, Samuel |
| Samuel, Herb. L. (Cleveland) | Toulmin, George | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Schwann, Charles E. | Trevelyan, Charles Philips | |
| Seely, Maj. J. E. B. (Isle of Wight | Ure, Alexander | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Shackleton, David James | Waldron, Laurence Ambrose | Mr. Herbert Gladstone and |
| Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) | Wallace, Robert | Mr. William M'Arthur. |
| Sheehy, David | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
§ Resolutions to be reported upon Thursday; Committee to sit again To-morrow.