§ Order read, for resuming Adjourned Debate on Amendment [16th March] to Question [15th March], "That, in order to comply with the Law, the proceedings necessary to dispose of any Supplementary Estimates and Vote A and Vote 1 of the Estimates for the Navy, and of the Ways and Means Resolutions consequential thereon, shall, if not previously disposed of, be brought to a conclusion in the manner hereinafter mentioned:—
§ "At half-past Five of the clock on the 21st day of March next, the Chairman shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of the Vote then under consideration, and shall then forthwith put the Question that the total amount of the outstanding Votes for the Civil Service Supplementary Estimates be granted for the services defined in those Estimates, and shall also forthwith put every other Question necessary to dispose of those Votes.
§ "As soon as the Resolutions so disposed of are reported to the House, the House shall forthwith resolve itself into Committee of Ways and Means, and the Chairman shall forthwith put every 308 Question necessary to dispose of any Resolutions proposed in that Committee.
§ "At Ten of the clock on the 23rd day of March next, the Speaker shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of the Report of the Resolution then under consideration, and shall then forthwith put the Question that the House doth agree with the Committee in all Resolutions reported in respect of the Civil Service Supplementary Estimates, and shall then put a like Question on the Resolution reported with respect to the Supplementary Estimates for the Army, and on the Resolutions reported with respect to Vote A and Vote 1 of the Estimates for the Navy.
§ "On the consideration of the Report from the Committee of Ways and Means, the Speaker shall forthwith put the Question that the House do agree with the Committee in the Resolutions reported.
§ "And that at half-past Eleven of the clock on the 27th day of March next, the Speaker shall forthwith put any Question necessary to dispose of the Second Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill; and at Seven of the clock on the 30th day of March next the Speaker shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of the Third Reading of that Bill.
§ "And that the proceedings on going into Supply on the Army Estimates, and in Committee, and on Report, of Vote A and Vote 1 of those Estimates shall, if not previously disposed of, be brought to a conclusion in the following manner;
§ At half-past Six of the clock on the 28th day of March next, the Speaker shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of the Motion that the Speaker leave the Chair on going into Supply on the Army Estimates.
§ "At half-past Six of the clock on the 29th day of March next, the Chairman shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of Vote A and Vote 1 of the Army Estimates in Committee.
§ "At Eleven of the clock on the 30th day of March next, the Speaker shall forthwith put every Question necessary to 309 dispose of the Report of the Resolutions with respect to Vote A and Vote 1 of the Army Estimates.
§ "Until the Business to which this Order relates is concluded the consideration of the Business of Supply at any Sitting at which Government Business has precedence shall not be anticipated by a Motion for Adjournment, and no dilatory Motion shall be received on proceedings on that Business, and the Business shall not be interrupted under any Standing Order.
§ "Until the Business to which this Order relates is concluded no Business other than Business of Supply shall be taken at any Sitting at which Government Business has precedence."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)
§
Which Amendment was—
In line 6, to leave out the word 'Five,' and insert the word 'Seven.'"—(Mr. Whitley.)
§ Question again proposed, "That the word 'Five' stand part of the Question."
§
MAJOR SEELY moved to leave out Vote 1, in order that no misunderstanding should exist as to Vote 7 for forage provisions and stores being substituted, and as to the Prime Minister's undertaking that the whole week from April 3rd would be given to discuss Vote 1. If it were not in order to discuss the matter of South African stores on that Vote the House would lose an opportunity of discussing it as a non-contentious Vote, but he understood that they were to have some other day than in the week beginning on April 3rd. He understood that they were to discuss Vote 7 in the ordinary way and that the whole week from April 3rd would be given to the discussion of Vote 1, when they could raise the vital question concerning the Government Army policy. He believed that was in accordance with the wishes of hon. Members on both sides of the House. He moved the Amendment in order to fully understand the terms which the Prime Minister explained to the House before the adjournment. He moved to omit the following words:—
And that the proceedings on going into Supply on the Army Estimates, and in Committee, and
310
on Report, of Vote A and Vote 1 of those Estimates, shall, if not previously disposed of, he brought to a conclusion in the following manner:
At half-past Six of the clock on the 28th day of March next, the Speaker shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of the Motion that the Speaker leave the Chair on going into Supply on the Army Estimates.
At half-past Six of the clock on the 29th day of March next, the Chairman shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of Vote A and Vote 1 of the Army Estimates in Committee.
At eleven of the clock on the 30th day of March next, the Speaker shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of the Report of the Resolutions with respect to Vote A and Vote 1 of the Army Estimates.
§
Amendment proposed.
In line 32, to leave out lines 32 to 44, inclusive."—(Major Seely.)
§ Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out to the words 'Vote 1,' in line 33, stand part of the Question."
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid he had no correction to make on his previous statement. The hon. Member had suggested that he had given a pledge that the discussion on Vote 1 should occupy the whole of the week following April 3rd. He was not sure the House would desire the whole of that time, but he would undertake that nothing else but Army Estimates should be put down on Government days until the Vote was disposed of, unless the discussion should be exhausted.
§ MR. ASQUITHunderstood that instead of Vote A and Vote 1 they would have Vote A and Vote 7. It was very desirable that the position should be clearly stated. He understood that Vote 1 would be the first order on April 3rd, and that the whole of the Government time during that week would be given to its discussion if necessary.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURYes, Sir, but the Vote shall be finished.
§ MR. ASQUITHsaid he understood that the second part of the undertaking was that the Government would give a special day to discuss the South African contracts and the Comptroller and Auditor General's Report upon them. Further, 311 that would be an early day; before Easter, if possible.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid he did not quarrel with that statement, but he thought the House would probably desire to take the advice of the Public Accounts Committee as to the time they would discuss that matter. As soon as the House had full information, which the Opposition would desire, he was ready to discuss it.
§ MR. ASQUITHWhen we think the state of information is such as to allow a discussion the Prime Minister will be prepared to give a day?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURWithin a day or two.
§ MR. DALZIELasked if the extra days would be regarded as allotted days.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid the discussion on Vote A and Vote 1 would be allotted days.
§ MR. DALZIELsaid that two of the days, which were only half days, could not be allotted days.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid that only full days would be regarded as allotted days. It was not intended to give more time out of the session for the discussion of Supply.
§ MR. DALZIELsaid that in that case he did not see that they were getting anything at all. Supply was always put down in accordance with the wishes of the Opposition and if the Opposition asked for five days to discuss the Army they would get it.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid that if everything were to be squeezed out in favour of one Estimate it would be another matter.
§ MR. DALZIELsaid that, personally, he should object to so much time being given to the Army. He did not think the House desired it. They had, however, a 312 promise from the right hon. Gentleman that the two half days would not be counted as allotted days.
§ MR. T. W. RUSSELL (Tyrone, S.)asked whether they were to wait until then for the names of the defaulting contractors.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid that his right hon. friend informed him that the names were already given.
§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. ARNOLD-FORSTER, Belfast, W.)said the Question on the subject was not reached in the Questions, but the Answer would appear in the Votes on the morrow.
§ MR. CHURCHILLsaid that he thought in the circumstances the right hon. Gentleman the, Member for East Fife would be well advised to close with the bargain, especially as the minority were deprived of the assistance of the cohort from Ireland who were celebrating their national festival elsewhere. He thought they had succeeded in making a bargain with the Government; but although the compromise had been accepted it could not be said in any way to remove the rooted objection the minority had to the manner in which they had been treated. He admitted that the right hon. Gentleman had endeavoured to show a conciliatory spirit, and had made a real and substantial concession; but that did not alter the deep injury inflicted on the procedure of the House of Commons by the Resolution.
§ MR. WHITLEYasked whether the Secretary of State's statement on money matters would be made on the Motion to get Mr. Speaker out of the Chair, or on Vote A under the guillotine, or on Vote 1.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURsaid that, subject to modification, the present intention of his right hon. friend was to make the statement on Vote A.
§ Main Question amended, in line 33, by leaving out "1" and inserting "7"; 313 in line 40, by leaving out "1" and inserting "7"; and in line 44, by leaving out "7" and inserting "7."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)
314§ Main Question, put, as amended.
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 208; Noes, 129. (Division List No. 63.)
315| AYES. | ||
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon | M' Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool) |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Flower, Sir Ernest | M'Calmont, Colonel James |
| Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden | Forster, Henry William | Majendie, James A. H. |
| Anson, Sir William Reynell | Foster, Philip S. (Warwick, S. W.) | Malcolm, Ian |
| Arkwright, John Stanhope | Galloway, William Johnson | Manners, Lord Cecil |
| Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. Hugh O. | Gardner, Ernest | Marks, Harry Hananel |
| Arrol, Sir William | Garfit, William | Martin, Richard Biddulph |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick | Maxwell, Rt. Hn. Sir H. E (Wigt'n) |
| Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. | Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin Nairn) | Maxwell, W. J. H (Dumfriesshire) |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Gordon, Maj Evans-(T'r H'mlets) | Milvain, Thomas |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Goschen, Hon. George Joachim | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy |
| Balcarres, Lord | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r.) | Greene, Sir E W (B'rySEdm'nds) | Morpeth, Viscount |
| Balfour, Rt Hn, Gerald W. (Leeds | Grenfell, William Henry | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. | Guthrie, Walter Murray | Morrison, James Archibald |
| Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. | Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer |
| Banner, John S. Harmood | Hambro Charles Eric | Mount, William Arthur |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin | Hamilton, Marq. of (L'donderry) | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Hare, Thomas Leigh | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) |
| Bignold, Sir Arthur | Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley) | Parkes, Ebenezer |
| Bill, Charles | Heath, Sir James (Staffords N W) | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington |
| Bingham, Lord | Heaton, John Henniker | Pemberton, John S. G. |
| Blundett, Colonel Henry | Helder, Augustus | Percy, Earl |
| Bond, Edward | Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W. | Platt-Higgins, Frederick |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith | Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. | Plummer, Sir Walter R. |
| Brassey, Albert | Hickman, Sir Alfred | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. Sir John | Hoare, Sir Samuel | Pretyman, Ernest George |
| Bull, William James | Hope, J. F (Sheffield, Brightside) | Purvis, Robert |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Hoult, Joseph | Randles, John S. |
| Butcher, John George | Howard, J. (Kent, Faversham) | Rankin, Sir James |
| Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin Univ.) | Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil | Reid, James (Greenock) |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H | Hunt, Rowland | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire | Hutton, John (Yorks., N. R.) | Renwick, George |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse | Ridley, S. Forde |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred | Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) |
| Chamberlain, Rt Hn. J. A. (Wore. | Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Chapman, Edward | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. | Rolleston, Sir John F. L. |
| Clive, Captain Percy A. | Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T (Denbigh) | Round, Rt. Hon. James |
| Coates, Edward Feetham | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col W. | Rutherford, John (Lancashire) |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Kerr, John | Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Keswick, William | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Knowles, Sir Lees | Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander |
| Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) | Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) | Sandys, Lieut.-Col. Thos. Myles |
| Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile | Lawrence, Sir J. (Monm'th) | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Dalkeith, Earl of | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Dalrymple, Sir Charles | Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (Mile End) | Sinclair, Louis (Romford) |
| Davenport, W. Bromley | Lawson, John Grant (Yorks N. R) | Sloan, Thomas Henry |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D.(Chatham | Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East |
| Denny, Colonel | Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) | Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Dickson, Charles Scott | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage | Spear, John Ward |
| Disraeli, Conings by Ralph | Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S. | Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk |
| Dorington, Rt. Hn. Sir John E. | Llewellyn, Evan Henry | Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs |
| Doughty, Sir George | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Stock, James Henry |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham | Stroyan, John |
| Doxford, Sir William Theodore | Lonsdale, John Brownlee | Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley |
| Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart | Lowe, Francis Wiliam | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft | Thorburn, Sir Walter |
| Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. |
| Finlay, Sir R. B. (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs) | Macdona, John Cumming | Tuff, Charles |
| Fisher, William Hayes | MacIver, David (Liverpool) | Tuke, Sir John Batty |
| Fison, Frederick William | Maconochie, A. W. | Turnour, Viscount |
| Vincent, Col Sir C. E. H (Sheffield | Whiteley, H. (Ashton und Lyne | Wylie, Alexander |
| Walker, Col. William Hall | Whitmore, Charles Algernon | Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong |
| Walrond, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. H. | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset) | |
| Warde, Colonel C. E. | Willough by de Eresby, Lord | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir |
| Webb, Colonel William George | Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson | Alexander Acland-Hood and |
| Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (Taunton | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart | Viscount Valentia. |
| Welby, Sir Chas. G. E. (Notts.) | Wrightson, Sir Thomas | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Harwood, George | Reckitt, Harold James |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D. | Redmond, John E. (Waterford |
| Ainsworth, John Stirling | Helme, Norval Watson | Rickett, J. Compton |
| Allen, Charles P. | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Higham, John Sharpe | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
| Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry | Holland, Sir William Henry | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Barran, Rowland Hirst | Horniman, Frederick John | Runciman, Walter |
| Bell, Richard | Joicey, Sir James | Russell, T. W. |
| Benn, John Williams | Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) |
| Black, Alexander William | Jones, Leif(Appleby) | Seely, Maj. J. E. B. (Isle of Wight) |
| Brigg, John | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire | Shackleton, David James |
| Bright, Allan Heywood | Jordan, Jeremiah | Shaw, Thomas(Hawick, B.) |
| Bryce, Rt. Hn. James | Kitson, Sir James | Shipman, Dr. John G. |
| Burke, E. Haviland | Labouchere, Henry | Sinclair, John (Forfarshire) |
| Burns, John | Lambert, George | Slack, John Bamford |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Lamont, Norman | Soares, Ernest J. |
| Caldwell, James | Langley, Batty | Spencer, Rt Hn. C. R. (Northants) |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) | Stanhope, Hon. Philip James |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Layland-Barratt, Francis | Sullivan, Donal |
| Cheetham, John Frederick | Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Levy, Maurice | Tennant, Harold John |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Lewis, John Herbert | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) |
| Crean, Eugene | Lough, Thomas | Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr |
| Cremer, William Randal | Lyell, Charles Henry | Tomkinson, James |
| Crombie, John William | MacNeill, John Gordon Swift | Toulmin, George |
| Dalziel, James Henry | M'Crae, George | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan | M'Laren, Sir Charles Benjamin | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Douglas, Chas. M. (Lanark) | Markham, Arthur Basil | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Duncan, J. Hastings | Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.) | Wason, Eugene(Clackmannan) |
| Edwards, Frank | Moss, Samuel | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Elibank, Master of | Moulton, John Fletcher | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Ellice, Capt E. C (SAndrw'sB'ghs | Murphy, John | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Ellis, John Edward (Notts) | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Eve, Harry Trelawney | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Fenwick, Charles | Nussey, Thomas Willans | Wills, A. Walters (N. Dorset) |
| Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.) | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid | Wilson, John(Durham, Mid.) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | O'Brien, Patrick(Kilkenny) | Wilson, John(Falkirk) |
| Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Wood, James |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Hudd'rsf'd |
| Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. | O'Mara, James | |
| Fuller, J. M. F. | Partington, Oswald | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | Paulton, James Mellor | Herbert Gladstone and |
| Grey, Rt. Hn. Sir E. (Berwick) | Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) | Mr. Causton. |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Priestley, Arthur | |
| Hardie, J. Keir (MerthyrTydvil | Rea, Russell |
§ Ordered, That, in order to comply with the Law, the proceedings necessary to dispose of any Supplementary Estimates and Vote A and Vote 1 of the Estimates for the Navy, and of the Ways and Means Resolutions consequential thereon, shall, if not previously disposed of, be brought to a conclusion in the manner hereinafter mentioned:
§ At half-past Five of the clock on the 21st day of March next, the Chairman shall forthwith put every Question necessary 316 to dispose of the Vote then under consideration, and shall then forthwith put the Question that the total amount of the outstanding Votes for the Civil Service Supplementary Estimates be granted for the services defined in those Estimates, and shall also forthwith put every other Question necessary to dispose of those Votes.
§ As soon as the Resolutions so disposed of are reported to the House, the House 317 shall forthwith resolve itself into Committee of Ways and Means, and the Chairman shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of any Resolutions proposed in that Committee.
§ At Ten of the clock on the 23rd day of March next the Speaker shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of the Report of the Resolution then under consideration, and shall then forthwith put the Question that the House doth agree with the Committee in all Resolutions reported in respect of the Civil Service Supplementary Estimates, and shall then put a like Question on the Resolution reported with respect to the Supplementary Estimates for the Army, and on the Resolutions reported with respect to Vote A and Vote 1 of the Estimates for the Navy.
§ On the consideration of the Report from the Committee of Ways and Means, the Speaker shall forthwith put the Question that the House do agree with the Committee in the Resolutions reported.
§ And that at half-past Eleven of the clock on the 27th day of March next, the Speaker shall forthwith put any Question necessary to dispose of the Second Reading of the Consolidated Fund Bill; and at Seven of the clock on the 30th day of March next the Speaker shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of the Third Reading of that Bill.
§ And that the proceedings on going into Supply on the Army Estimates, and in Committee, and on Report, of Vote A and Vote 7 of those Estimates shall, if not previously disposed of, be brought to a conclusion in the following manner:
§ At half-past Six of the clock on the 28th day of March next the Speaker shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of the Motion that the Speaker leave the Chair on going into Supply on the Army Estimates.
§ At half-past Six of the clock on the 29th day of March next the Chairman shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of Vote A and Vote 7 of the Army Estimates in Committee.
318§ At Eleven of the clock on the 30th day of March next the Speaker shall forthwith put every Question necessary to dispose of the Report of the Resolutions with respect to Vote A and Vote 7 of the Army Estimates.
§ Until the Business to which this Order relates is concluded the consideration of the Business of Supply at any Sitting at which Government Business has precedence shall not be anticipated by a Motion for Adjournment, and no dilatory Motion shall be received on proceedings on that Business, and the Business shall not be interrupted under any Standing Order.
§ Until the Business to which this Order relates is concluded no Business other than Business of Supply shall be taken at any Sitting at which Government Business has precedence.