HC Deb 05 July 1905 vol 148 cc1208-60

Order read, for resuming adjourned: debate on Amendment to Question [5th July]," That the proceedings in Committee and on Report of the Aliens Bill, including proceedings on the financial Resolution relating thereto, shall, unless previously disposed of, be brought to a conclusion at the times and in the manner hereinafter mentioned:—

  1. (a) The proceedings in Committee on the remaining part of Clause 1, and Clauses 2 and 3, and on the Committee stage of the financial Resolution, shall be brought to a conclusion on Monday, the 10th of July.
  2. (b) The proceedings on the Report stage of the financial Resolution, and in Committee on Clauses 4,5,6, and 7, shall be brought to a conclusion at the termination of the Afternoon Sitting on Tuesday, the 11th of July.
  3. (c) The proceedings in Committee on the remaining Clauses of the Bill, on any new Clauses or Schedules, and any other proceedings necessary to bring the Committee stage to a conclusion, shall be brought to a conclusion at the termination of the Evening Sitting on Tuesday, the 11th of July.
  4. (d) The consideration of the Report of the Bill shall be appointed for Monday, the 17th of July, and shall be brought to a conclusion on that day.
  5. (e) At 11 p.m. on Monday, the 10th of July, and at 6. 30 p.m. on Tuesday, the 11th of July, and at 12 midnight on Tuesday, the 11th of July, and at 11 p.m. on Monday, the 17th of July, the Chairman or Speaker shall forthwith put the Question or Questions on any Amendment or Motion already proposed from the Chair, and shall next proceed successively to put forthwith the Question on any Amendments moved by the Government of which notice has been 1209 given (but no other Amendments), and on every Question necessary to dispose of the business allotted to the day or sitting.
  6. (f) In the case of Government Amendments, or of Government new Clauses or Schedules, he shall put only the Question that the Amendment be made or that the Clause or Schedule be added to the Bill, as the case may be.

The Third Reading of the Bill shall be put down for the Evening Sitting on Wednesday, the 19th of July, and at 12 midnight on that day the Speaker shall put forthwith any Question necessary to conclude the proceedings on that stage of the Bill.

The proceedings to which this Order relates shall not be interrupted except at the Afternoon Sitting at 7. 30 p.m. on the 10th and 17th of July, under the provisions of any Standing Order relating to the Sittings of the House.

After the passing of this Order, on any day or at any Sitting to which Business is allotted under this Order, no dilatory Motion on the Bill or Resolution, and no Motion to postpone a Clause of the Bill, shall be received unless moved by a Minister in charge of the Bill, and the Question on any such Motion shall be put forthwith.

No Motion under Standing Order 10 shall be received on the 10th, 11th, 17th, or 19th July, and no opposed Private Business shall be set down at the Evening Sitting for consideration on those days.

If Progress be reported, the Chairman shall put this Order in force in any subsequent sitting of the Committee."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

Which Amendment was— In line 1, to leave out from the word 'That,' to the end of the Question, and insert the words' having regard to the small amount of time already devoted to the consideration of the Aliens Bill in Committee, and the failure of the Government to press forward the measure at an earlier period of the session, this House declines to assent to any proposal having as its object the prevention of legitimate discussion on matters vitally affecting the liberty of the subject.'"—(Mr. Dalziel.)

Question again proposed, "That the word 'the,' in line 1, stand part of the Question."

SIR CARNE RASCH (Essex, Chelmsford)

said he was quite unable to understand the meaning of the constant attacks made upon the Prime Minister on account of his alleged absence from the debates in that Chamber. Students of history would remember that when Lord North occupied the position of his right hon. friend the Prime Minister he also was constantly subjected to these attacks, but what was his reply when accused of being asleep during the course of a debate? Lord North said, "Asleep! I only wish to God I was." His right hon. friend was too polite to go to sleep, and had to absent himself on business connected with the nation, and that was the only reason why he absented himself from the House. He saw no reason why the Prime Minister should be expected to be in his place to listen to such frequent and frivolous attacks as those of the hon. Member for Oldham. Neither Mr. Gladstone, during the Home Rule Bill, nor Sir William Harcourt, during his Budget Bill, was present during the whole of the discussions on those measures. In point of fact, Sir William Harcourt on more than one occasion told him that he was obliged to go out sometimes because flesh and blood could stand it no longer.

SIR WILFRID LAWSON (Cornwall, Camborne)

asked whether the hon. Member was in order.

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member for Oldham made an animated attack on the Prime Minister for his absence; and the hon. and gallant Member for Essex has constituted himself the Prime Minister's defender. I think he ought to be allowed to make his defence.

SIR CARNE RASCH

said that the only remedy for the waste of time was to curb the exuberance of verbosity on both sides of the House. Every other Legislative Assembly and place of business had a time limit. Why should not this House have one? Also the House had adopted the principle on more than one occasion, but had never allowed a measure providing for a time limit to pass into law.

MAJOR EVANS GORDON (Tower Hamlets, Stepney)

said that he had been charged by the right hon. Member for the Forest of Dean with having at the beginning of the session announced that the Government intended to make early use of the guillotine. That statement was without foundation. He had never had any communication with the Prime Minister on the subject, and he never said anything like the words attributed to him. He did express the hope that the Government would use all the machinery in their power to pass the Bill; and he rejoiced that that course had been adopted. He asserted that the Bill was widely supported by the public, as revealed in resolutions passed at public meetings, and especially in the East End of London, urging the Government to produce and carry a measure on the lines of that which was now before the House, resolutions which were supported, he might add, by many supporters of the Party opposite. He traversed the statement that insufficient time had been allotted for the discussion of this Bill. Clause 1 was the only controversial clause. With regard to the rest of the Bill there was practical unanimity. If the suggestion of the hon. Member for Carnarvon were adopted, and the amount of time to be allotted to each Bill were to

be decided by a Committee, would such Committee have given more than four days to the discussion of Clause 1? If so the proposal would not result in economising the time of the House He hoped the Government would not be alarmed by what was said by hon. Members opposite as to the feeling of the average man in the country with regard to the procedure that was now being taken. His belief was that the average man did not care two pence about the procedure of the House. Rather he looked with amazement on the rules of procedure, the extraordinary manner in which business was conducted, and on the outrageous waste of time that took place in discussing weekly Motions for adjournment and votes of censure, and goodness knew what besides, which resulted in matters of importance not being discussed at all. The country would rejoice that the closure had been enforced, and that the Government had determined to pass the Aliens Bill into law as quickly as possible.

Mr. DALZIEL

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put accordingly, "That the word 'the' in line 1, stand part of the Question."

The House divided:—Ayes, 146; Noes, 107. (Division List No. 242.)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John Duke, Henry Edward
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Brotherton, Edward Allen Dyke, Rt Hn. Sir William Hart
Arkwright, John Stanhope Brymer, William Ernest Fellowes, Rt. Hn Ailwyn Edw.
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. H. O Bull, William James Finch, Rt. Hn. George H.
Arrol, Sir William Campbell, J H M (Dublin Univ. Finlay, Sir R B (Inv'rn'ss B'ghs
Atkinson, Rt. Hn. John Carson, Rt Hn. Sir Edw. H. Fisher, William Hayes
Bailey, James (Walworth) Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. Forster, Henry William
Bain, Colonel James Robert Chapman, Edward Gardner, Ernest
Baird, John George Alexander Coates, Edward Feethham Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk.
Balcarres, Lord Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E. Gordon, Hn. J E (Elgin & Nairn
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manc'r Cohen, Benjamin Louis Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.
Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds Colston, Chas Edw. H. Athole Gordon, Maj Evans(T'rH'mlets
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas Goschen, Hn. George Joachim
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow Greene, Sir E W(B'rySEdm'nds
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Cross, Herb. Shepherd(Bolton) Hambro, Chas. Eric
Bignold, Sir Arthur Dalkeith, Earl of Hamilton, Marq. of (L'nd'nderry
Bigwood, James Dickson, Chas. Scott Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)
Bill, Charles Doughty, Sir George Hare, Thomas Leigh
Blundell, Colonel Henry Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers- Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley
Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords NW Milvain, Thomas Scott, Sir S (Marylebone, W.)
Heaton, John Henniker Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Sharpe, William Edward T.
Helder, Augustus Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) Shaw-Stewart, Sir H. (Renfrew
Hogg, Lindsay Morrell, George Herbert Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Hope, J. F (Sheffield, Brightside Morison, James Archibald Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Houston, Robert Paterson Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Smith, H. C (North'mb. Tyneside
Hozier, Hn. James HenryCecil Mount, William Arthur Spear, John Ward
Hudson, George Bickersteth Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Hunt, Rowland Nicholson, William Graham Stanley, RtHn. Lord (Lancs.)
Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.) O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Jameson, Major J. Eustace Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) Stock, James Henry
Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred Parkes, Ebenezer Stone, Sir Benjamin
Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T (Denbigh) Peroy, Earl Talbot, Lord E (Chichester)
Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col W. Platt-Higgins, Frederick Tollemache, Henry James
Kerr, John Plummer, Sir Walter R. Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Kimber, Sir Henry Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Tritton, Charles Ernest
King, Sir Henry Seymour Pretyman, Ernest George Tuff, Charles
Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Randles, John S. Tuke, Sir John Batty
Lawson, HnH. L. W. (Mile End) Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne Vincent, Col Sir C. E. H. (Sheffield
Lee, A. H (Hants, Fareham Reid, James (Greenock) Walrond, Rt. Hn Sir Wm. H.
Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Remnant, James Farquharson Welby, Sir Chas. G. E. (Notts.)
Llewellyn, Evan Henry Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Long, Rt. Hn Walter(Bristol, S Renwick, George Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Loyd, Archie Kirkman Ridley, S. Forde Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart
Lyttelton, Rt. Hn. Alfred Ritchie, RtHn. Chas Thomson Wrightson, Sir Thomas
MacIver, David (Liverpool) Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) Wylie, Alexander
M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool) Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
M'Killop, Jas. (Stirlingshire) Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
Marks, Harry Hananel Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Martin, Richard Biddulph Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Mildmay, Francis Bingham Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.) Hammond, John O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)
Austin, Sir John Harwood, George O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.
Baker, Joseph Allen Hayden, John Patrick O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Barlow, John Emmott Helme, Norval Watson O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Charles H. Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Bell, Richard Higham, John Sharp Perks, Robert William
Benn, John Williams Holland, Sir William Henry Pirie, Duncan V.
Boland, John Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) Power, Patrick Joseph
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Hutchinson, Dr. Chas. Fredk. Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Brigg, John Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Reid Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries
Bright, Allan Heywood Jones, Leif (Appleby) Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Broadhurst, Henry Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) Roche, Augustine (Cork)
Burns, John Jordon, Jeremiah Roche, John (Galway, East)
Caldwell, James Joyce, Michael Russell, T. W.
Cameron, Robert Kennedy, Vincent P (Cavan, W. Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Kilbride, Denis Shackleton, David James
Channing, Francis Allston Langley, Batty Sheehy, David
Cheetham, John Frederick Law, Hugh Alex (Donegal, W.) Shipman, Dr. John G.
Condon, Thomas Joseph Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Crean, Eugene Levy, Maurice Spencer, Rt Hn C R(Northants
Cremer, William Randal Lundon, W. Sullivan, Donal
Cullinan, J. Lyell, Chas. Henry Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway) MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) MacVeagh, Jeremiah Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh M'Crae, George Weir, James Galloway
Dilke, Rt. Hn. Sir Charles M'Kean, John White, George (Norfolk)
Dobbie, Joseph M'Kenna, Reginald White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Donelan, Captain A. M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Doogan, P. C. Mansfield, Horace Rendall Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Fenwick, Charles Markham, Arthur Basil Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Ffrench, Peter Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N. Wills, Arthur Walters (Dorset)
Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.) Mooney, John J. Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Flavin, Michael Joseph Muldoon, John Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.)
Flynn, James Christopher Nannetti, Joseph P.
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herb. John Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr. Dalziel and Mr. John Wilson (Durham)
Goddard, Daniel Ford O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.)
Grant, Corrie O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Question, "That the Question be now put," put, and agreed to.

MR. WHITLEY (Halifax)

said he wished to move an Amendment and a consequential Amendment which would make the first paragraph read: "That the proceedings in Committee and on the Report of the Aliens Bill shall be set down as the first Order of the day." He thought that that would secure the suspension of the twelve o'clock rule and enable the House to revert to the old-fashioned dinner hour, which would be of considerable advantage.

MR. SPEAKER

said that if that was the object of the hon. Member he thought it would be clearly outside the realm of relevancy.

MR. WHITLEY

asked if it would be in order to move the suspension of the twelve o'clock rule in the Standing Orders in order to devote more time to a particular Bill.

MR. SPEAKER

said that a Motion to suspend the twelve o'clock rule must be made under the Standing Orders of the House. What the hon. Member wanted to do by a side wind was to make an entire divergence from the Standing Orders of the House.

MR. WHITLEY

said he accepted Mr. Speaker's ruling on that point, and would raise the question in another form.

MR. DALZIEL moved the Amendment standing in his name, viz., in lines 1 and 2 to leave out "and on Report." The effect of this Amendment, he said, would be that the time devoted to the Report stage would not be included in the compartments and that the House would have more time to discuss the various matters which must come up on the Report stage. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Forest of Dean had shown most conclusively that there would not be adequate time to consider the question of political refugees and the victims of religious persecutions. The only two occasions on which the House could review the decisions of the Committee were on the Report stage and the Third Reading. The Government had taken an evening sitting for the Third Reading of the most important Bill of the session. That was a complete farce, and, therefore, they were bound to fall back on the demand to have more time on the Report stage. If the Government had made up their mind to shut their ears to all criticism it was just as well that the House should know it and proceed accordingly. He appealed to the Prime Minister, who knew that sometimes the Government gained by showing some conciliation, to give hon. Members additional time for the consideration of the most vital points of the Bill. The right hon. Gentleman might say that, so far as he could see, the Committee would have an opportunity of considering all these points, but that it was not in the hands of any particular individual or of the Prime Minister himself. He besought the right hon. Gentleman to view this Amendment with favour. He begged to move.

Amendment proposed— In line 1 to leave out the words 'and on Report.'"—(Mr. Dalziel.)

Question proposed, "That the words 'and on Report' stand part of the Question."

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said he thought the hon. Gentleman must, if he reflected on the matter, see that the adoption of his Amendment would render nugatory the whole arrangements the Government had made to pass this Bill in the period mentioned in the Resolution. It was therefore impossible for the Government to accept the Amendment.

MR. McKENNA (Monmouthshire, N.)

said that there were no fewer than twenty Amendments to the Bill standing on the Paper in the name of the Home Secretary. That was to say that the Bill when it passed through Committee would be in quite a different form from that which it now was. In these circumstances was it reasonable, before they had the amended Bill in print before them, to tie the hands of the House as to the action they might take on Report or as to the particular time which should be given to Report? He would also point out that it would be perfectly open to the Prime Minister, after the Bill had passed through Committee, to bring in a similar Resolution, which he could pass in half an hour if he treated the Opposition in a conciliatory spirit. He had no doubt that the House would take the Report stage reasonably if that concession were made; but it was treating the House with contempt to ask them to discuss a Bill which was not before them.

MR. WHITLEY

said he did hope that the right hon. Gentleman would exclude the Report stage, from his Resolution, or, in some other way, give more time than was now set down for the discussion of the vital points in the Bill. He would give one illustration which, unless they had the opportunity they desired, showed the kind of thing that would happen. He had brought up a question relating to one of his own constituents, a workman who desired to return to this country from the United States, but who would be excluded by the Bill as it stood. It was admitted by those in charge of the Bill that that was a perfectly just cause of complaint, and that it had not occurred to those who drafted the Bill. The Attorney-General had promised to meet that case, and also the case of the Irish-Americans, and on that promise being made they had withdrawn their Amendment. But in the course of the day the Attorney-General had given notice of an Amendment which was hopelessly unsatisfactory, and there would be nothing to prevent a British-born subject being treated as an alien, or even as an undesirable alien. Unless they had more time allowed to deal with the Report stage they would not be able to deal with the promise of the Attorney-General, and they would be obliged to accept whatever words he put down on the Paper. Personally, he should not be sorry, because every case which arose in his constituency would be a valuable asset, and he was sure it would be found to be the same all over the country. Two days in Committee was absolutely inadequate, and there was practically to be no Report stage at all. He warned the Prime Minister that if he forced the Bill through in this way he would be sorry in the future for laving treated legislation in this slipshod fashion.

MR. FLYNNS (Cork, N.)

reminded the House that in response to an appeal made to him by the hon. and learned Member for Waterford the Attorney-General consented to put in words which would meet the Irish case. Certainly the Report stage would be the place to make any alterations of proposals which would not have the effect desired. He did not think the framers of this Bill could have had the Irish case in mind at all.

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is not now discussing the Amendment.

THE ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Sir ROBERT FINLAY,) Inverness Burghs

The case which I promised to provide for was the Irishman who had become an American citizen and wished to visit Ireland.

MR. FLYNN

said that if they were not satisfied with the words put down by the Attorney-General, then their only chance of altering them would be on the Report stage.

MR. T. W. RUSSELL (Tyrone, S.)

said that the whole case raised by them on a previous occasion was that these Irishmen, who were naturalised Americans, should not be interfered with by this Bill in case they wished to return to their own country. The financial Resolution might take up the whole day. The Government had admitted that they had not considered this point.

SIR ROBERT FINLAY

But we have considered it.

MR. T. W. RUSSELL

Then no provision has been made for it. Were they to run the risk of these people being interfered with? When a clear grievance was pointed out he thought they ought to be afforded time to discuss it.

SIR ROBERT FINLAY

I do not think that this point is relevant to the Amendment, because it relates to a British subject who has gone to another country and then returns to his own country to remain. The point the other day was that of an Irishman who had become an American citizen and wished to visit Ireland, and I have now suggested words to meet that case.

MR. FLYNN

And the words you have submitted are quite unacceptable.

MR. FLAVIN (Kerry, N.)

said that the words which had been put down would not meet more than 5 per cent. of the Irish cases.

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is proceeding to discuss a future Amendment, he must confine his remarks to the Amendment before the House.

MR. FLAVIN

said that quite 95 per cent. of the Irishmen who went abroad became citizens of the country to which they went, and according to this Bill they would be treated as aliens. That was what he wished to protest against, and they would use every means in their power on the Report stage to protect their own people from such treatment.

MR. POWER (Waterford, E.)

said that the Attorney-General gave them a distinct pledge during the Committee stage that words would be introduced on the Report stage to meet the Irish case.

SIR ROBERT FINLAY

said that what he stated was that he would see whether words could be introduced, without prejudice to the general principle of the Bill, to meet the particular case quoted, which was the case of an Irishman going to America, becoming naturalised there, and then returning to Ireland on a visit.

MR. SPEAKER

I must again point out that this point is out of order, and I really think that it must close now.

MR. POWER

said he merely wished to point out that if they did not have an opportunity of discussing the words which would be submitted, the pledge which the Attorney-General had given to them would be no use at all. The words which were now submitted were most unsatisfactory.

MR. KILBRIDE (Kildare, S.)

said the object of this Amendment was that they should be allowed more time for the Report stage. The Attorney-General had given them a promise that he would bring up words which would meet the case of the Irishman who had gone to America and become naturalised and who wanted to return to his native country and end his days in Ireland. The words suggested would not meet this case, and under the Bill these Irishmen would be treated as undesirable aliens.

MR. LUNDON (Limerick, E.)

said that any person under sixteen years of age going to America was entitled to become a citizen, and the majority of those who went from Ireland to America were under sixteen, and, consequently, they became citizens of the United States.

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is discussing another Amendment.

MR. LUNDON

said that all he wished to point out was that a very small part of the men affected by this Bill would be those who came home to see their friends in Ireland.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 174; Noes, 145. (Division List No. 243.)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Bnownaggree, Sir M. M. Chapman, Edward
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Bignold, Sir Arthur Coates, Edward Feetham
Arnold-Forster, Rt Hn Hugh O. Bigwood, James Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E.
Arrol, Sir William Bill, Charles Cohen, Benjamin Louis
Atkinson, Rt. Hn. John Blundell, Colonel Henry Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole
Bailey, James (Walworth) Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John Compton, Lord Alwyne
Bain, Colonel James Robert Brotherton, Edward Allen Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)
Baird, John George Alexander Brymer, William Ernest Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)
Balcarres, Lord Bull, William James Cross, Herb Shepherd (Bolton)
Balfour, Rt Hn A. J. (Manch'r.) Butcher, John George Dalkeith, Earl of
Balfour, Rt. HnGeraldW(Leeds Campbell, J. H M(DublinUniv. Dalrymple, Sir Charles
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Carson, Rt Hn. Sir Edw. H. Dickinson, Robert Edmond
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Cautley, Henry Strother Dickson, Charles Scott
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbysh. Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph
Doughty, Sir George Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Ridley, S. Forde
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Lawrence, Sir J. (Monm'th) Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Duke, Henry Edward Lawson, Hn. H L W (MileEnd) Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Dyke, Rt Hn. Sir William Hart Lee, Arthur H (Hants Fareham Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Fellowes, Rt Hn Ailwyn Edward Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
Finch, Rt. Hn. George H. Llewellyn, Evan Henry Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Finlay, Sir R. B(Inv'rn'ssB'ghs Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Fisher, William Hayes Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Bristol. S Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Fison, Frederick William Lonsdale, John Brownlee Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Flower, Sir Ernest Loyd, Archie Kirkman Scott, Sir S (Marylebone, W.)
Forster, Henry William Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsm'th Sharpe, William Edward T.
Galloway, William Johnson Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Shaw-Stewart, Sir H(Renfrew)
Gardner, Ernest MacIver, David (Liverpool) Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk. M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Gordon, Hn. J. E (Elgin & Nairn) M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Smith, H C(North'mbTyneside
Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) Marks, Harry Hananel Spear, John Ward
Gordon, Maj Evans(T'rH'mlets Martin, Richard Biddulph Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Gore, Hn. S. F. Ormsby- Middlemore, J. Throgmorton Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs)
Goschen, Hn. George Joachim Mildmay, Francis Bingham Stewart, Sir Mark J M'Taggart
Graham, Henry Robert Milner, Rt Hn Sir Fredk G. Stock, James Henry
Greene, Sir EW(B'rySEdm'nds Milvain, Thomas Stone, Sir Benjamin
Hall, Edward Marshall Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Hambro, Charles Eric Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) Tollemache, Henry James
Hamilton, Marq of(L'nd'nderry Morpeth, Viscount Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Morrell, George Herbert Tritton, Charles Ernest
Hare, Thomas Leigh Morrison, James Archibald Tuff, Charles
Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Tuke, Sir John Batty
Heath, Sir James(StaffordsNW Mount, William Arthur Vincent, Col Sir CEH(Sheffield).
Heaton, John Henniker Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) Walker, Col. William Hall
Helder, Augustus Nicholson, William Graham Walrond, Rt. Hn Sir William H.
Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens Welby, Lt.-Col A C E (Taunton)
Hogg, Lindsay Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury Welby, Sir Chas. G. E (Notts.)
Hope, J. F (Sheffield, Brightside Parkes, Ebenezer Whiteley, H. (Ashton und Lyne
Houston, Robert Paterson Percy, Earl Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil Platt-Higgins, Frederick Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Hudson, George Bickersteth Plummer, Sir Walter R. Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Hunt, Rowland Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart
Jameson, Major J. Eustace Pretyman, Ernest George Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred Pryce-Jones, Lt. Col. Edward Wylie, Alexander
Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Pym, C. Guy Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Kenyon-Slaney, Rt Hn. Col. W Randles, John S.
Kerr, John Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Kimber, Sir Henry Reid, James (Greenock)
King, Sir Henry Seymour Remnant, James Farquharson
Knowles, Sir Lees Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine
Lambton, Hn. Fredk. Wm. Renwick, George
NOES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) Churchill, Winston Spencer Flavin, Michael Joseph
Allen, Charles P. Cogan, Denis J. Freeman-Thomas, Captain F
Austin, Sir John Condon, Thomas Joseph Fuller, J. M. F.
Baker, Joseph Allen Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herb. John
Barlow, John Emmott Crean, Eugene Goddard, Daniel Ford
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Cremer, William Randal Grant, Corrie
Bell, Richard Cullinan, J. Griffith, Ellis J.
Benn, John Williams Dalziel, James Henry Hammond, John
Black, Alexander William Davies, M. Vaughan(Cardigan Harwood, George
Boland, John Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Hayden, John Patrick
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Helme, Norval Watson
Brigg, John Dewar, John A (Inverness-sh.) Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Charles H.
Bright, Allan Heywood Dilke, Rt. Hn. Sir Charles Higham, John Sharp
Broadhurst, Henry Dobbie, Joseph Holland, Sir William Henry
Burns, John Donelan, Captain A. Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)
Burt, Thomas Doogan, P. C. Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C.
Buxton, Sydney Charles(Poplar Edwards, Frank Hutchinson, Dr. Chas. Fredk.
Caldwell, James Emmott, Alfred Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley)
Cameron, Robert Evans, Sir F. H. (Maidstone) Jones, Leif (Appleby)
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Fenwick, Charles Jones, William (Carnarvonshire
Cawley, Frederick Ffrench, Peter Jordan, Jeremiah
Channing, Francis Allston Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, NE.) Joyce, Michael
Cheetham, John Frederick Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Kennedy, Vincent P (Cavan, W
Kilbride, Denis O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.) Stanhope, Hn. Philip James
Lambert, George. O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Strachey, Sir Edward
Langley, Batty O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W Sullivan, Donal
Law, Hugh Alex (Donegal, W.) O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe
Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) O'Dowd, John Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.
Layland-Barratt, Francis O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.
Levy, Maurice O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Lewis, John Herbert Partington, Oswald Thomas, JA (Glamorgan, Gowe
Lundon, W. Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) Tomkinson, James
Lyell, Charles Henry Perks, Robert William Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Pirie, Duncan V. Weir, James Galloway
MacVeagh, Jeremiah Power, Patrick Joseph White, George (Norfolk)
M'Crae, George Reddy, M. White, Luke (York, E. R.)
M'Kean, John Redmond, John E. (Waterford Whiteley, George (York, W. R.
M'Kenna, Reginald Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Mansfield, Horace Rendall Roche, Augustine (Cork) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Markham, Arthur Basil Roche, John (Galway, East Wills, Arthur Walters(NDorse
Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N Runciman, Walter Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Mooney, John J. Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen Schwann, Charles E. Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Moss, Samuel Shackleton, David James Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.
Muldoon, John Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Murphy, John Sheehy, David TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Flynn and Mr. T. W. Russell.
Nannetti, Joseph P. Shipman, Dr. John G.
Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Nussey, Thomas Willans Spencer, Rt. Hn CR(Northants
MR. EMMOTT

, in moving to withdraw proceedings on the financial Resolution from the operation of the Motion, contended that the time allotted to the various compartments was far too short for the adequate discussion of the clauses concerned, and that to require in addition the financial Resolution to be discussed, or passed without discussion, was a demand which ought not to be made upon the House. The question of expense was one of considerable importance, about which no information whatever had been given. Last year, although it was admitted that representations had been made to the Treasury on the point, the House were not informed what amount of money was asked for. It would be scandalous if the House were again treated in that way without being allowed adequate time for the discussion of the financial aspect of the Bill He begged to move.

MR. SPEAKER

Does any hon. Member second?

MR. CHURCHILL

formally seconded by raising his hat.

Amendment proposed— In line 2, to leave out the words 'including proceedings on the financial Resolution relating thereto.'"—(Mr. Emmott.)

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Question."

MR. WHITLEY

, on a point of order, asked whether it was necessary for such an Amendment to be seconded, and pointed out that the mover of the previous Amendment was not called upon for a seconder.

MR. SPEAKER

All Amendments require to be seconded.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said the Amendment was an impossible one as it would stultify what the Committee had already passed. In fact, he would have thought it was on the verge of being out of order. It was clearly impossible to take Clause 4 unless the money Resolution had been passed, and to put that Resolution outside the Order would be practically to make the whole rule unworkable. That was a technical but a conclusive answer to the Amendment. Moreover, the inclusion of the money Resolution was a part of the general scheme, but it was not an important part, and if he agreed to exempt anything from the rule it certainly would not be that which was more in the nature of a formal Resolution than many of the questions that would arise on the Bill.

MR. WHITLEY

said the right hon. Gentleman had taken an extremely narrow technical ground, and all it amounted to was that a day should be given for the passage of the financial Resolution between the days fixed for the first and second compartments of the guillotine. It was evidently the intention of the Prime Minister that that Resolution should be passed in Committee and on Report without there being any opportunity afforded for pressing the Department to disclose their estimate of the cost of the working of the Bill. That was an important matter, as they did not know whether the cost would be £10,000 or £100,000. The probability was that the financial Resolution would never be discussed at all.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

It comes first.

MR. WHITLEY

pointed out that that was only on Report, which meant that it would be impossible to cross-examine the Home Secretary on the matter. He submitted that it was both unusual and unfair to include both stages of a financial Resolution in the compartments of a guillotine Motion.

MR. BRIGHT (Shropshire, Oswestry)

said that one of the arguments against the Bill was that it would cost a great deal of money for which the country would get very little in return. Under the Resolution there would be practically no opportunity of discussing the financial question in Committee, as in the first compartment it was preceded by Clauses 1, 2, and 3. He hoped, therefore, that on the Report stage the Prime Minister

would grant some relaxation to meet the circumstances of the case.

MR. RUNCIMAN (Dewsbury)

hoped the Prime Minister would not prove obdurate in this matter. Much of the opposition to the Bill of last year was due to the absence of any information as to the cost of the scheme, and this year, again, no estimate was forthcoming. Before the financial Resolution was dealt with the House ought to be told for what amount an estimate had been sent in to the Treasury as to the cost of the present scheme. This important matter had been thrown with four important clauses into one compartment, so that adequate discussion was impossible. He submitted that to include such a Resolution with clauses in one compartment was entirely unprecedented, and only another evidence of the slackness with which financial burdens were thrown upon the country.

MR. STUART SAMUEL (Tower Hamlets, Whitechapel)

asked whether at some period of the discussion the Prime Minister would inform the House as to the probable cost of putting the Bill into operation.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

It will be done when the Resolution comes up.

MR. WHITLEY

But it will not come up; it will be guillotined.

Question put.

Tae House divided:—Ayes, 194; Noes, 161. (Division List No. 244.)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Bignold, Sir Arthur Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Bigwood, James Compton, Lord Alwyne
Arnold-Forster, RtHnHugh O. Bill, Charles Corbett, T.L. (Down, North)
Arrol, Sir William Blundell, Colonel Henry Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Bowles, Lt-Col. HF(Middlesex) Dalkeith, Earl of
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Dalrymple, Sir Charles
Bailey, James (Walworth) Brotherton, Edward Allen Davenport, William Bromley
Bain, Colonel James Robert Brymer, William Ernest Denny, Colonel
Baird, John George Alexander Bull, William James Dickinson, Robert Edmond
Balcarres, Lord Butcher, John George Dickson, Charles Scott
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manc'r Campbell, JHM(Dublin Univ. Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph
Balfour, RtHnGeraldW (Leeds Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. Doughty, Sir George
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch Cautley, Henry Strother Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers-
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. Duke, Henry Edward
Banner, John S. Harmood- Chapman, Edward Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Coates, Edward Feetham Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E. Elliot, Hn. A. Ralph Douglas
Fellowes, Rt Hn. Ailwyn Edward Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Finch, Rt. Hn. George H. Leveson-Gower, Frederick. N. S. Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Finlay, Sir RB. (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs Llewellyn, Evan Henry Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
Fisher, William Hayes Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Fison, Frederick William Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Flower, Sir Ernest Lonsdale, John Brownlee Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Forster, Henry William Loyd, Archie Kirkman Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford
Galloway, William Johnson Lucas, Reginald J (Portsmouth) Samuel, Sir H. S. (Limehouse).
Gardner, Ernest Lyttelton, Rt. Hn. Alfred Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk. MacIver, David (Liverpool) Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool) Sharpe, William Edward T.
Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Shaw-Stewart, Sir H. (Renfrew)
Gordon, Maj. Evans (T'rH'mlets Marks, Harry Hananel Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby- Martin, Richard Biddulph Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Goschen, Hn. George Joachim Maxwell, RtHn. Sir H. E(Wigt'n Smith, HC(North'mbTyneside)
Graham, Henry Robert Middlemore, J. Throgmorton Spear, John Ward
Greene, Sir EW (B'rySEdm'nds Mildmay, Francis Bingham Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G. Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs.).
Hall, Edward Marshall Milvain, Thomas Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart
Hambro, Charles Eric Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Hamilton, Marq. of (L'nd'nderry Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants) Stock, James Henry
Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Stone, Sir Benjamin
Hare, Thomas Leigh Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Morpeth, Viscount Talbot, RtHn J. G. (Oxf'd Univ)
Heath, Sir J. (Staffords. N. W.) Morrell, George Herbert Thornton, Percy M.
Heaton, John Henniker Morrison, James Archibald Tollemache, Henry James
Helder, Augustus Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W. Mount, William Arthur Tritton, Charles Ernest
Hogg, Lindsay Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) Tuff, Charles
Hope, JF(Sheffield, Brightside) Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Tuke, Sir John Batty
Houston, Robert Paterson Nicholson, William Graham Tumour, Viscount
Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury Vincent, Col. SirCEH. (Sheffield
Hudson, George Bickersteth Parkes, Ebenezer Walker, Col. Wm. Hall
Hunt, Rowland Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington) Walrond, Rt. Hn Sir William H.
Jameson, Major J. Eustace Percy, Earl Welby, Lt-Col. ACE. (Taunton)
Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred Platt-Higgins, Frederick Welby, Sir Chas. B. E. (Notts.
Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. (Denbigh Plummer, Sir Walter R. Whiteley, H(Ashton und Lyne
Kenyon-Slaney, Rt Hn. Col. W. Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Kerr, John Pretyman, Ernest George Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Keswick, William Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Kimber, Sir Henry Pym C. Guy Wortley, RtHn. C. B. Stuart
King, Sir Henry Seymour Randles, John S. Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Knowles, Sir Lees Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne Wylie, Alexander
Lambton, Hn. Frederick Wm. Reid, James (Greenock) Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Remnant, James Farquharson
Lawrence, Sir J. (Monm'th) Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (Mile End) Renwick, George
Lee, Arthur H(Hants, Fareham Ridley, S. Forde
NOES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Elibank, Master of
Allen, Charles P. Cawley, Frederick Evans, Sir F. H. (Maidstone)
Atherley-Jones, L. Channing, Francis Allston Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan
Austin, Sir John Cheetham, John Frederick Fenwick, Charles
Baker, Joseph Allen Cogan, Denis J. Ffrench, Peter
Barlow, John Emmott Condon, Thomas Joseph Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond
Bell, Richard Crean, Eugene Flavin, Michael Joseph
Benn, John Williams Cremer, William Randal Flynn, James Christopher
Black, Alexander William Cullinan, J. Freeman-Thomas, Captain F.
Boland, John Dalziel, James Henry Fuller, J. M. F.
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan) Gladstone, RtHnHerbert John
Brigg, John Devlin, Chas. Ramsay(Galway Goddard, Daniel Ford
Bright, Allan Heywood Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Grant, Corrie
Broadhurst, Henry Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. Griffith, Ellis J.
Burns, John Dilke, Rt. Hn. Sir Charles Hammond, John
Burt, Thomas Dobbie, Joseph Harcourt Lewis
Buxton, Sydney Chas. (Poplar) Donelan, Captain A. Harwood, George
Caldwell, James Doogan, P. C. Hayden, John Patrick
Cameron, Robert Edwards, Frank Hayter, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur D.
Helme, Norval Watson Moss, Samuel Shackleton, David James
Hemphill, Rt. Hn. Charles H. Moulton, John Fletcher Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Higham, John Sharp Muldoon, John Sheehy, David
Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.) Murphy, John Shipman, Dr. John G.
Holland, Sir William Henry Nannetti, Joseph P. Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) Newnes, Sir George Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Hutchinson, Dr. Chas. Fredk. Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Spencer, RtHnC. R. (Northants
Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Nussey, Thomas Willans Stanhope, Hn. Philip James
Isaacs, Rufus Daniel O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.) Strachey, Sir Edward
Jones, Leif (Appleby) O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Sullivan, Donal
Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe
Jordan, Jeremiah O'Connor, James (Wicklow W.) Tennant, Harold John
Joyce, Michael O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.
Kennedy, Vincent P. (Cavan, W O'Dowd, John Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.
Kilbride, Denis O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) Thomas, David Alfred(Mer. thyr
Lambert, George O'Mara, James Thomas, JA(Glamorgan, Gower
Langley, Batty O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Tomkinson, James
Law, Hugh Alex (Donegal, W.) Partington, Oswald Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Paulton, James Mellor Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan
Layland-Barratt, Francis Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) Weir, James Galloway
Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington) Perks, Robert William White, George (Norfolk)
Levy, Maurice Pirie, Duncan V. White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Lewis, John Herbert Power, Patrick Joseph Whiteley, George (York, W. R.
Lundon, W. Priestley, Arthur Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Lyell, Charles Henry Reddy, M. Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Redmond, John E. (Waterford) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
MacVeagh, Jeremiah Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) Wills, Arthur Walters (N Dorset
M'Crae, George Roberts, John H(Denbighs.) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
M'Kean, John Robson, William Snowdon Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
M'Kenna, Reginald Roche, Augustine (Cork) Wilson, John (Falkirk)
M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Roche, John (Galway, East) Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N
Mansfield, Horace Rendall Runciman, Walter
Markham, Arthur Basil Russell, T. W. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—Mr Emmott and Mr. Churchill.
Mooney, John J. Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) Schwann, Charles E.

MR. McKENNA moved an Amendment the object of which was, without altering the amount of time allowed by the Resolution for the completion of the discussion of the Bill, to throw it into one compartment only, leaving the House to use the allotted time as it pleased on any particular stage. He pointed out that there were still ninety-eight Amendments standing on the Paper in the names of fifteen hon. Gentlemen on the Ministerial side and forty-six in the names of hon. Gentlemen on the Opposition side. If hon. Gentlemen opposite had put down their Amendments seriously, they could not support the Resolution. The alternative was that they had put them down in order to give the Order Paper the appearance of a vast mass of business and to consume all the allotted time by the discussion of their own Amendments. There was no possibility, therefore, of the reasonable discussion of the Bill. Probably they would read to-morrow in the Unionist Press that the Government had become tired of the dilatory tactics of the Opposition, although two-thirds of the Amendments stood in the names of hon. Gentlemen opposite.

MR. CHARLES HOBHOUSE

seconded.

Amendment proposed— In line 3, to leave out all the words after the word 'thereto,' and add the words, 'shall be deemed to have been concluded, and the Question on the Third Reading of the Bill shall be put, and the Bill shall be passed in such form as, subject to Amendments, the Secretary of Stare introduced the Bill, as soon as the proceedings, if not previously disposed of, have been under discussion during three Afternoon Sittings and four Evening Sittings.'"—(Mr. McKenna)

Question proposed, "That the word 'shall' stand part of the Question."

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said he was greatly puzzled to know what the exact effect of this Amendment would be. If he rightly understood the hon. Member he proposed practically to abolish both the Report stage and the Third Reading. It seemed to him to be such a great innovation that he should like first of all to hear from Mr. Speaker whether it was in order to discuss it as a serious proposition.

MR. SPEAKER

The Amendment does not appear on the Paper in the form in which it is now proposed, and it has been rather sprung upon me. I do not think it would be possible to over-rule the common practice of Parliament.

MR. MCKENNA

said the wording of his Amendment might not be particularly happy, but all he asked for was that the Report stage should be taken without Question put, and the Third Reading in the same way.

MR. LOUGH

said it was only in the course of his argument that the hon. Member for Monmouth said that the two stages might be omitted.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said that even supposing that the ninety-eight Amendments standing in the names of hon. Members on his side of the House were put down with the view of preventing discussion—a fantastic hypothesis—the plan which the hon. Member opposite proposed to counteract this object would be inefficacious, because it was quite evident that but half the ingenuity which the hon. Member suspected in the supporters of the Government would be sufficient, if exercised in speaking to the other Amendments on the Paper, to keep the discussion going for three days and a half, and, therefore, nothing would be gained by hon. Gentlemen on the other side of the House. If the danger was not imaginary, the remedy proposed would have no effect whatever in dealing with the evil sought to be remedied.

MR. CHURCHILL

said he was in favour of the principle of the time-table being applied to Bill, but he considered that the application of the guillotine closure to this particular Bill was not justified by the circumstances of the session, the character of the measure, or the discussions which had already taken place upon it. If the principle of the time-table was to be applied to Bills, he submitted that it was of the essence of such a scheme that the time should be apportioned by some nonpartisan Committee or body, and not by the Prime Minister of the day. The Prime Minister of the day was a partisan pure and simple. He did not in any sense of the word occupy an impartial position in regard to the course of business in the House. No one had more clearly identified himself with one particular Party and had more definitely associated himself with the mere political aspects of his office than the present Prime Minister. If they were discussing a time-table which had been framed by some non-partisan body, it would be very difficult for hon. Members to vote against it, but having regard to the fact that the Resolution proposed a purely partisan allocation of time, and having regard to the statement of his hon. friend that that allocation of time had the appearance of favouring a great number of Amendments put down by hon. Members on the other side of the House—though he did not for a moment suggest that the right hon. Gentleman had been actuated by motives unduly favouring these Amendments—he was inclined to prefer the proposal that the time to be allowed for discussion should not be definitely allocated by the Government. Under those circumstances he would vote for the Amendment. The Prime Minister had referred to the Amendment of his hon. friend as one which appeared to introduce some great innovation and a departure from the common usage of Parliament. Considering that the right hon. Gentleman was the greatest precedent maker, considering that he was the grand inventor of instruments of Parliamentary torture and suppression, considering that the curtailment of Parliamentary liberties which had marked the last ten years would go down to history associated with his name, his hardihood in talking about Parliamentary innovation was a thing of which his supporters might approve, but to which the country would not assent.

MR. GEORGE WHITELEY (Yorkshire, W. R. Pudsey)

said he was not quite sure whether his hon. friend intended to proceed to a division, but he was bound to say that, although he recognised the excellence of his intentions, the Amendment, if carried out, was one which might prove dangerous to discussion in the House of Commons. His hon. friend's proposal was that the whole of the time which the Prime Minister was willing to give for the consideration of the Bill should be devoted to the Committee stage, and that the Report stage and the Third Reading stage should be cut out. He was not sure whether such a proceeding would be constitutional, but, whether it was or not, he considered it was absolutely necessary that they should have both those stages on any Bill presented to the House. The House should consider most carefully before it consented to any such Amendment. He suggested that his hon. friend should not press the Amendment.

MR. TENNANT (Berwickshire)

said he understood that under the new rules it was not competent to move on the Report stage an Amendment which had not been moved in Committee. Would it be competent for any hon. Member to move on the Report stage an Amendment which had not been reached in Committee owing to the operation of the guillotine? Was he not right in his first thesis?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

No.

MR. LOUGH

said the Resolution proposed by the Prime Minister would strictly limit the time available for the discussion of some of the most important parts of the Bill. The hon. Member for the West Derby Division of Liverpool had argued that already in the discussions on the Bill they had raised many of the most important points. He was unable to agree with the hon. Member. If they had three more days free from any compulsion they might manage to discuss most of the important points. Let them have three and a-half days for the discussion of the Bill, to be used as they liked, instead of chopping them up into pieces as the Resolution proposed.

MR. RUNCIMAN

said he could not support his hon. friend's Amendment. It was necessary to divide the time into portions, and if the Amendment were adopted probably the House would not reach the financial Resolution to which much importance was attached. His hon. friend had referred to the Machiavellian schemes of hon. Members on the other side of the House who had Amendments on the Paper. He had only to call attention to the names o the Gentlemen to show how far wrong that assertion was. The names included those of the Members for Thanet, Greenwich, the West Derby Division of Liverpool, Hull, Stretford, Bethnal Green, and Shoreditch, and he was sure that they would not associate themselves with a Machiavellian scheme.

MR. McKENNA

asked leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. WHITLEY moved an Amendment substituting for the proposal of the guillotine by compartments the old-fashioned remedy of continuing the sitting of the House after midnight. Hon. Members on his side of the House were prepared to give up something of their comfort and rest in order to give adequate consideration to this measure. He thought it was a fair offer to make to the First Lord of the Treasury in order that important points in the Bill might not be entirely left without consideration. In the small hours of the morning long speeches were not the rule, and they would be able to devote themselves then to points which might seem of minor importance but which were exactly the points on which the Bill was going to break down in working if passed without Amendment. During the discussions which had already taken place in Committee they had been told over and over again that they must raise certain points on Clause 5 or Clause 8, but if the Motion was passed these clauses would come up on days when Members were marching through the division lobbies. He begged to move.

MR. LEIF JONES (Westmoreland, Appleby)

seconded the Amendment. He did so because it offered an alternative to the guillotine proposal of the Prime Minister. He understood the right hon. Gentleman in moving the Resolution to say that it might be of advantage in some instances if Party spirit were absent from the debates in the House. He thought the right hon. Gentleman would recognise that it was not in any Party spirit that his proposal had been discussed that day. On his side of the House they thought that more time should be allowed for the discussion of the Aliens Bill, and they appealed to the Prime Minister to give more time than was proposed. The use of force did not facilitate business in this House or anywhere else. The right hon. Gentleman had that day confessed that legislation was practically impossible even under the new rules which he had devised. The use of the closure in a drastic way did not facilitate legislation and it did not increase the authority of legislation in the country when carried. The Prime Minister had pleaded that it was the only way by which business could be carried through, but from 1869 to 1874 Mr. Gladstone carried through a series of measures of importance, and passed in the course of that five years more legislation dealing with great principles and touching important interests than had been carried during the last twenty-five years by the use of the closure. What had the closure done? It was utilised in the cases of the Home Rule Bill and the Evicted Tenants Bill and what had become of them? The Education Bill was closured and the whole country was in revolt against it. There were 32,000 cases of passive resisters.

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! The hon. Member must address himself more to the Question before the House.

MR. LEIF JONES

hoped it would be in order to argue that if the Prime Minister would use methods of persuasion they would be just as effectual in paving time and the measures passed would have more weight in the country. During this session they had had a two days discussion on the Resolution to guillotine the debate on Supply, and he put it to the Prime Minister that if when he introduced that guillotine Resolution he had made at the beginning of the two days' debate the conciliatory speech which he made at the end of the second day he would have got his Supply through without the necessity for any such Resolution. The Prime Minister had admitted that they had a right to discuss the Bill, and, if they had a right to discuss it, surely it was wrong to deprive them of that right. If the twelve o'clock rule were suspended they could discuss the important Amendments and questions raised by the Bill, and if there was not then sufficient time why should they adjourn on August 11th? By adjourning on August 18th there would be ample time provided for discussion. He would also suggest that they might carry over legislation from session to session.

MR SPEAKER

Order, order! That has no reference to the Amendment before the House.

MR. LEIF JONES

said he only desired to find time for the legislation that the Prime Minister said he had no time for. He was pleading in all seriousness for further time in which to discuss a measure which he regarded as of the utmost importance and which raised questions which went to the very foundation of our Constitution and history. If they were to close the door against people coming and going freely—which had been one of our greatest glories in the past and which was a freedom which no other country possessed—they should not do it light-heartedly, but only after full consideration and in order to give effect to the will of the House, and of the country.

Amendment proposed— In line 3, to leave out all the words after the word 'shall' and insert the words 'if under consideration at Twelve o'clock not be interrupted under Standing Order Sittings of the House."'—(Mr. Whitley.)

Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out, to the end of line 4, stand part of the Question."

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said he would not follow the mover and seconder of the Amendment into the wide field of discussion, as he had already dealt with the question of all-night sittings or late sittings. Such a course would not meet with favour in any part of the House, nor would it conduce to wise legislation. It was absolutely inconsistent with the scheme that had been laid down. He would simply say that the whole essence of this Resolution was that they should have the power to closure by compart- ments, whether that course was right or wrong. At all events that was too late an hour to discuss something which was not an Amendment but an alternative to that proposal.

MR. JOSEPH WALTON (Yorkshire, W. R. Barnsley)

said the Prime Minister's statement appeared to amount to this, that for the consideration of most important and complex matters only three and a-half days were to be allowed, and seeing that the guillotine was to fall at half-past six at a morning sitting and eleven at the evening sitting it followed that all they would have for the discussion of the whole Bill was five hours and a half per day for three days and one evening sitting. No one could contend that it was not the duty of the House to adequately and sufficiently discuss every clause of a Bill which involved most important and fundamental changes in the principle of the admission of aliens from abroad into this country. Surely this was an occasion when they had a right to demand that adequate opportunity should be given for a proper discussion of every clause in the Bill. At any rate it was right that the country should know that in this important question the whole of the responsibility of refusing that right of freedom of discussion which the House of Commons ought to enjoy rested upon the Prime Minister. Whether his docile followers supported him or not, on this occasion the discredit would rest upon his shoulders and the shoulders of the Government, and the measure, if forced through by those means, would not attain that permanency in the legislative enactments of the country which it would otherwise attain. Why was it necessary for the House of Commons to rise on August 11th or 12th? It was high time that the nation should know that the convenience of Members on the Government side of the House and the interests of grouse-shooting were regarded as paramount and above the legislative needs of the nation, and know that, in addition to the inefficient legislative character—

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! The hon. Member is making a Second Beading speech on the Resolution.

MR. JOSEPH WALTON

concluded by saying that he considered the rights of the House to full freedom of debate and discussion on an important measure proposed by the Government had been abrogated by the Prime Minister.

MR. TREVELYAN (Yorkshire, W. R. Elland)

thought the Prime Minister did not recognise what his hon. friend wished to obtain by the Amendment. He had been listening to the debate and the thing that struck him was the absence of discussion of one particular alternative to the proposals of the Government—the discretionary closure by the Prime Minister. The Amendment would permit that to be done. It would require a certain amount of energy to be displayed by the supporters of the Government, and it might be necessary for them to stay occasionally until two o'clock in the morning. If there was any unnecessary obstruction the right hon. Gentleman could use his discretion to apply the closure in the ordinary way. He could not help feeling that that way was a far better method to adopt than to closure the Bill by compartments. Under certain circumstances he agreed with the policy of closure by compartments, but in a Bill of this kind, where there remained fifteen important points to be discussed, that could not be regarded as a proper policy, and if the Prime Minister were to use his discretion to closure at the right moment, a number of unimportant Amendments, very many of which had been put down by Members on the Government side, would be struck out, and the House would have a real chance to discuss those questions it wanted to debate. The right hon. Gentleman had admitted that there was no real obstruction to the Bill. The truth was that he dared not accept this Amendment because he had no sufficient following on his own side in favour of the Bill, which had been discovered to be of very little use as an electoral Bill. Last Monday there was a demonstration of Labour Members against the Bill, and in the country a "rot" was setting in among the Tory Party. The hon. Member for Oldham had given them an instance of a meeting in Manchester—

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! The hon. Member is straying away from the Amendment.

MR. TREVELYAN

said the reason why the Prime Minister dared not accept the Amendment was because he could not depend upon the energy of his followers in attending at the House while the Bill was discussed.

MR. CHURCHILL

said the Amendment raised the very wide and important issue of whether it would not be much better not to have a fixed hour for the termination of the debate than to fall back upon the drastic methods of a time-table. He confessed that he was in favour of a time-table if it was a scientific, fair, logical, and reasonable time-table. But if they were not to have a time-table with those characteristics there was a great deal to be said for the process of exhaustion which attended late sittings. Naturally the Prime Minister, who was burdened with too much work, and had to reconcile his divergent forces, objected to late sittings, and he was quite ready to admit that it would be a great disadvantage to the country for the right hon. Gentleman to be kept up very late night after night. The debate on this Bill would be of a very different character to the debate of the other night, which was of the nature of a protest against the improper treatment received by the House at the hands of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. There were many Amendments to be considered, and many people in the country who followed the progress of the Bill with the greatest interest. After all, what had the Government to lose by allowing the debate to run on into the night? They would get the session ended on any day they chose and yet could give more discussion on urgent and vital points of the Bill. He asked the right hon. Gentleman to consent, whatever might be the disadvantage of an all-night sitting. To extend the hours of debate meant extending the number of days allocated for the discussion of the Bill.

MR. WILLS (Dorsetshire, N.)

supported the Amendment and urged upon the Prime Minister that it would conduce to a spirit of conciliation, and there were numerous points to be considered in which that spirit would be of enormous benefit to the country. There were two schools amongst the right hon. Gentleman's own followers who supported the Aliens Bill; one could be described as the Birmingham School and the other as that of the right hon. Gentleman. These schools themselves held different views as to the proper purpose of the Act. He had been asked to support the British Brothers League—

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! That has nothing to do with this Amendment.

MR. WILLS

thought if the twelve o'clock rule were to be suspended the debate could be carried on in a spirit of conciliation, but if the Amendment were not accepted the time of the House might be wasted in discussing unimportant Amendments, and the more important ones would be reached too late to allow of discussion. He hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would make some concession in this matter.

MR. SAMUEL EVANS (Glamorganshire, Mid.)

said the Prime Minister would probably find, if he cared anything at all about the House of Commons, that he was dealing with it in such a way as to lose his influence in the country. Students of history would find that the twelve o'clock rule gave rise to a great deal of obstruction in the House in the good old days. Mr. Disraeli on one occasion, when at three or four o'clock in the morning an adjournment of the debate was moved, said— It is a very pleasant morning. Why go to our homes at this very early hour of the morning? You are destroying the usages of Parliament. If they sat late the bores would get tired, the unimportant Amendments would disappear, and the House would apply itself to the really serious Amendments to the Bill. They should deal with this matter as if they were referred back to the old days, and they would then get through the Bill without difficulty. The Prime Minister did not care whether they discussed the important Amendments or not. The right hon. Gentleman wanted to have the legislation in his own hands, with the assistance of the hon. Member for Peckham, and the silent assistance of the Chancellor of the Exchequer; so that so far as this Bill was concerned the House of Commons must give the right hon. Gentleman that power. He did not believe in obstruction in this House, whether on this Bill or on any other; but he believed strongly in the efficacy of the House of Commons, and if they wanted to do real business they ought to sit at four o'clock and have no twelve o'clock rule, or sit at nine or ten o'clock in the morning, and finish their business in reasonable time. So far as this Motion was concerned, it would be better to adopt the good, old-fashioned rule. All that the Prime Minister wanted was to pass the Bill in its present form, and if he had the courage to carry out what he desired the right hon. Gentleman would completely closure the Bill, and allow his followers to go to the country and take a holiday. He believed the proposition of his hon. friend was the right course for the House to adopt.

MR. DALZIEL

said he would not have risen but for the speech just delivered by his hon. and learned friend. For his part, he thought it would be disastrous if they went back on the twelve o'clock rule. To suspend that rule made everything uncertain, and interfered with the progress of business. Sitting up late never could conduce to the efficient discharge of Parliamentary duties. But the Amendment raised the point whether it was better to support the compartment closure or to sit up after twelve o'clock. He thought the latter preferable to the proposal of the Prime Minister, because it was shown beyond doubt that the important matters in the Bill could then be discussed. He would vote for the Amendment.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 190; Noes, 157. (Division List No. 245.)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Coates, Edward Feetham Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E. Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F.
Anson, Sir William Reynell Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Hambro, Charles Eric
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn Hugh O. Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) Hamilton, Marq of(L'nd'nderry
Arrol, Sir William Dalkeith, Earl of Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Dalrymple, Sir Charles Hare, Thomas Leigh
Bailey, James (Walworth) Davenport, William Bromley Hay, Hon. Claude George
Bain, Colonel James Robert Davies, Sir Horatio D(Chatham Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley
Baird, John George Alexander Denny, Colonel Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords. N. W
Balcarres, Lord Dickson, Chas. Scott Heaton, John Henniker
Balfour, Rt Hn A. J. (Manch'r. Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T.
Balfour Capt. C. B(Hornsey) Doughty, Sir George. Hogg, Lindsay
Balfour, Rt. HnGeraldW(Leeds Douglas. Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Hope, J F (Sheffield, Brightside)
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Dyke. Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart Hudson, George Bickersteth
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Elliot, Hn. A. Ralph Douglas Hunt, Rowland
Banner, John S. Harmood- Fellowes, Rt Hn Ailwyn Edw. Jameson, Major J. Eustace
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Fergusson, Rt Hn Sir J. (Manch'r Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Kenyon, Hn. Geo T. Denbigh
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Kerr, John
Bignold, Sir Arthur Finlay, Sir R. B. (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs. Keswick, William
Bigwood, James Fisher, William Hayes Kimber, Sir Henry
Bingham, Lord Fison, Frederick William Knowles, Sir Lees
Blundell, Colonel Henry Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Lambton, Hn. Frederick Wm.
Bowles, Lt.-Col H F (Middlesex) Flower, Sir Ernest Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)
Brassey, Albert Forster, Henry William Lawrence, Sir J. (Monmouth)
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John Galloway, William Johnson Lawson, Hn. H. L. W(Mile End)
Brymer, William Ernest Gardner, Ernest Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)
Bull, William James Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)
Butcher, John George Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk. Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Campbell, J. H M(Dublin Univ. Gordon, Hn J E (Elgin & Nairn Llewellyn, Evan Henry
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) Long, Col Chas. W. (Evesham
Cautley, Henry Strother Gordon, Maj Evans (T'rH'mlets Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol S
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. Goschen, Hn. George Joachim Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Goulding, Edward Alfred Lucas, Reginald J(Portsmouth
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Graham, Henry Robert Lyttelton, Rt. Hn. Alfred
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn JA (Worc. Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Macdona, John Cumming
Chapman, Edward Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) MacIver, David (Liverpool)
M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire Platt-Higgins, Frederick Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs.)
Malcolm, Ian Plummer, Sir Walter R. Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart
Marks, Harry Hananel Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Martin, Richard Biddulph Pretyman, Ernest George Stock, James Henry
Maxwell, RtHn Sir HE(Wigt'n Pryce-Jones, Lt. Col. Edward Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Melville, Beresford Valentine Pym, C. Guy Talbot, RtHn J G(Oxf'dUniv.)
Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Randles, John S. Thornton, Percy M.
Middlemore, J. Throgmorton Rankin, Sir James Tollemache, Henry James
Mildmay, Francis Bingham Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Fredk. G. Reid, James (Greenock) Tuff, Charles
Milvain, Thomas Remnant, James Farquharson Tuke, Sir John Batty
Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine Tumour, Viscount
Montagu, G (Huntingdon) Ridley, S. Forde Vincent, Col Sir CEH(Sheffield)
Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants.) Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. T. Walker, Col. William Hall
Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) Warde, Colonel C. E.
Morpeth, Viscount Round, Rt. Hon. James Welby, Lt-Col A C E(Taunton)
Morrell, George Herbert Rutherford, John (Lancashire) Whiteley, H. (Ashton und Lyne
Morrison, James Archibald Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Mount, William Arthur Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R
Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart
Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Sharpe, Wm. Edward T. Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Nicholson, William Graham Skewes-Cox, Thomas Wylie, Alexander
Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) Sloan, Thomas Henry
Parkes, Ebenezer Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington Smith, H C (North'mb Tyneside
Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley Smith, Rt Hn J Parker (Lanarks
Percy, Earl Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
NOES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E. Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.) MacVeagh, Jeremiah
Allen, Charles P. Flavin, Michael Joseph M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)
Austin, Sir John Flynn, James Christopher M'Crae, George
Baker, Joseph Allen Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. M'Kean, John
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Fuller, J. M. F. M'Kenna, Reginald
Bell, Richard Furness, Sir Christopher M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)
Black, Alexander William Gladstone, Rt Hn Herb. John Markham, Arthur Basil
Boland, John Goddard, Daniel Ford Mooney, John J.
Brigg, John Griffith, Ellis J. Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Bright, Allan Heywood Haldane, Rt. Hn. Richard B. Moss, Samuel
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Hammond, John Muldoon, John
Burke, E. Haviland Harcourt, Lewis Murphy, John
Caldwell, James Harwood, George Nannetti, Joseph P.
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Hayden, John Patrick Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Helme, Norval Watson O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.)
Causton, Richard Knight Higham, John Sharp O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Cawley, Frederick Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.) O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)
Channing, Francis Allston Holland, Sir William Henry O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.
Cheetham, John Frederick Hope, John Deans (Fife. West) O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Churchill, Winston Spencer Isaacs, Rufus Daniel O'Dowd, John
Cogan, Denis J. Jones, D. Brynmor (Swansea) O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Condon, Thomas Joseph Jones, Leif (Appleby) O'Malley, William
Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) O'Mara, James
Crean, Eugene Jordan, Jeremiah O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Cremer, William Randal Joyce, Michael Partington, Oswald
Cullinan, J. Kennedy, Vincent P(Cavan, W. Paulton, James Mellor
Dalziel, James Henry Kilbride, Denis Pearson, Sir Weetman D.
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Lambert, George Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Lamont, Norman Philipps, John Wynford
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. Langley, Batty Pirie, Duncan V.
Dobbie, Joseph Law, Hugh Alex(Donegal, W.) Power, Patrick Joseph
Doogan, P. C. Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Priestley, Arthur
Duffy, William J. Layland-Barratt, Francis Reddy, M.
Edwards, Frank Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington Redmond, John E. (Waterford
Elibank, Master of Leigh, Sir Joseph Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Ellice, Capt E C (SAndrw'sBghs) Levy, Maurice Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Ellis, John Edward (Notts) Lewis, John Herbert Roche, John (Galway, East)
Emmott, Alfred Lough, Thomas Roe, Sir Thomas
Eve, Harry Trelawney Lundon, W. Runciman, Walter
Fenwick, Charles Lyell, Charles Henry Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Ffrench, Peter MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Schwann, Charles E.
Seely, Maj JEB (Isle of Wight) Tennant, Harold John Whiteley, George (York, W. R.
Shackleton, David James Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E. Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E. Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Sheehy, David Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr Wills, Arthur Walters(NDorset
Shipman, Dr. John G. Thomas, JA(Glamorgan, Gower Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Sinclair, John (Forfarshire) Tomkinson, James Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
Slack, John Bamford Trevelyan, Charles Philips Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Soames, Arthur Wellesley Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) Woodhouse, Sir JT(Huddersfd
Spencer, Rt. Hn. CR Northants Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Stanhope, Hn. Philip James. Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan TELLERS FOE THE NOES—Mr. J. H. Whitley and Mr. Samuel Evans.
Strachey, Sir Edward Weir, James Galloway
Sullivan, Donal White, George (Norfolk)
Taylor, Theodore C (Radcliffe) White, Luke (York, E. R.
MAJOR SEELY (Isle of Wight)

said the object of the Amendment he was about to move was to withdraw Clause 3 from the first compartment, so that the discussion on Monday, July 10th should be confined to Clauses 1 and 2. There was a general agreement of opinion that Clause 3—the expulsion clause—should be added to the Statute-book if possible, but Clauses 1 and 2 raised matters of the utmost controversy. It might be said that if there was general agreement as to Clause 3 it did not matter where it was placed for discussion. That, however, was not the case. Although there was agreement as to the principle, numerous questions of drafting would require consideration, and therefore it was only reasonable to suggest that Clause 3 should come in with Clauses 4, 5, 6, and 7. Clauses 1 and 2 embodied the most contentious parts of the Bill and their adequate discussion would require the whole of one day.

MR. EMMOTT

, in seconding, said that for the discussion of Clauses 1 and 2 one day was wholly insufficient, and to include Clause 3 was really an insult to Members who desired to discuss the Bill reasonably. There were forty-two Amendments to Clauses 1 and 2 on the Paper in the names of supporters of the Government, and twenty in the names of Members of the Opposition, while of the forty-two no fewer than eleven were to be proposed by the Home Secretary himself, mainly in acknowledgment of the justice of the criticisms that had been made. It was perfectly clear that more time was required, and therefore he seconded the Amendment.

Amendment proposed— In line 6, to leave out Clauses 2 and 3, and insert Clause 2"—(Major Seely)—instead there.

Question proposed, "That the words posed to be left out stand part of the Question."

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said it must be a matter of opinion, incapable of demonstration, whether it was better that Clause 3 should be discussed on Monday or on Tuesday, it being understood that it must be discussed on one of those days. He adhered to the view that the allocation of time in the Resolution was better than that now proposed. As the mover of the Amendment had admitted, there was no serious difference of opinion with regard to the principle of Clause 3, though it did not follow that no drafting Amendments would be raised. He would be sorry, however, to crowd up Tuesday by adding to the clauses set down for that day. Probably the greater part of Monday would be devoted to finishing Clause 1, and, though Clause 2 was more important than Clause 3, he did not think Clauses 2 and 3 together were too much to fill up the remainder of the day. He thought, therefore, the House would be well advised to adhere to the Resolution.

MR. RUNCIMAN

said the suggestion that Clause 3 was uncontroversial applied only to the principle. The machinery of the clause was extremely important, and could not be properly discussed unless the clause were taken up first on Tuesday. Already the discussion on Clause 1 had caused the Government to put down several important Amendments, and he believed the consideration of Clause 2, if sufficient time were allowed, would be equally productive. There was no intention of over-burdening Tuesday by the transfer of Clause 3 to that day, as a Motion would subsequently be submitted to relieve Tuesday of some of the work allocated to it.

MR. CHURCHILL

understood that the Prime Minister was not unwilling to leave the particular allocation of the clauses between these two days to the convenience of the House. Was he right in that?

SIR ROBERT FINLAY

No, you are wrong.

MR. CHURCHILL

said he understood the Prime Minister to say that although he thought the allocation in the Resolution was better than that proposed by the Amendment, he would not absolutely resist the alteration, if such an alteration were generally desired. In the absence of the Prime Minister it was impossible to ascertain whether the concession would be granted. A mere redistribution of the clauses between the two days, however, would not be sufficient. There would need to be some extension of time also.

MR. CHARLES HOBHOUSE

submitted that, considering the social and moral issues involved, the whole of Tuesday could advantageously be occupied by the discussion of Clause 3. He thought some assurance ought to be given to the House that the time available for the discussion of Clause 3 would be lengthened and not shortened by the proposal which was now before the House. Unless they got some very graceful concession from the Front Ministerial Bench they might find themselves in a worse plight than ever. MR. MCKENNA pointed out that they had only got one day to discuss Clauses 1, 2, and 3. There were no less than forty-two Amendments to Clauses 1 and 2 standing in the names of hon. Gentlemen on the Ministerial side of the House, and under those circumstances how was it possible that Clause 3 could be discussed? He was aware that Clause 3 was a part of the measure upon which the House was more or less agreed, but, nevertheless, it required some little discussion because it gave the power to the Secretary of State to make an expulsion order against an alien who had been in receipt of parochial relief within three months from the time at which proceed- ings for the certificate were commenced. That question could not be reached on the Report stage because the new clauses would be taken first, so that the only operative clause which was going to have any effect at all was really one which could not be discussed at all unless the Government would give more time and allow it to be put first on Tuesday.

MR. STUART SAMUEL

said he thought the allocation of the time which had been suggested would be of little value unless the Government would give them a little more time for the consideration of the clauses. When one considered the effect of the legitimate criticism which the proposals of the Government had received during the brief discussions which had already taken place, he was not at all surprised at their shyness in not giving further opportunities for discussion upon the remaining portions of the Bill. Nothing could be more deplorable than the statement made by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Board of Trade that 75,000—

MR. SPEAKER

That matter is not relevant to the discussion of the Amendment now before the Chair.

MR. STUART SAMUEL

said it could not possibly make any difference to the Government where Clause 3 was discussed, but they had apparently made up their minds not to make the slightest concession.

MR. DALZIEL

said the question was whether they ought to take Clause 3 first on Tuesday. He thought they were entitled to ask at this stage what suggestions the Prime Minister had got to make upon this question of granting an extension of the time to be allowed for discussion. Could the right hon. Gentleman give them any hope that at any period he intended to make any concession at all. Now was the time to make any concession that he intended to offer, and if he did not intend to meet them he should let them know at once and then they could address themselves more in detail to some of the proposals which they had to put forward.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 172; Noes, 134. (Division List No. 246.)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) Mount, William Arthur
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Gordon, Maj. Evans (T'rH m'ts Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)
Anson, Sir Wm Reynell Goschen, Hn. George (Joachim Nicholson, William Graham
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. H. O. Goulding, Edward Alfred Parkes, Ebenezer
Arrol, Sir William Graham, Henry Robert Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington
Atkinson, Rt. Hn. John Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Peel, Hn. Wm. R. Wellesley
Bailey, James (Walworth) Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury Percy, Earl
Bain, Colonel James Robert Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs. Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Baird, John George Alexander Halsey, Rt. Hn. Thomas F. Plummer, Sir Walter R.
Balcarres, Lord Hambro, Charles Eric Pretyman, Ernest George
Balfour, Rt Hn. A J(Manch'r) Hamilton. Marq of (L'donderry Pryce-Jones, Lt. Col. Edward
Balfour, Capt. C. B. Hornsey) Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Randles, John S.
Balfour, Rt. HnGeraldW Leeds Hare, Thomas Leigh Rankin, Sir James
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch Hay, Hn. Claude George Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Banner, John S. Harmood- Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley Reid, James (Greenock)
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords. NW Remnant, James Farquharson
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Heaton, John Henniker Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Ridley, S. Forde
Bignold, Sir Arthur Hogg, Lindsay Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Bingham, Lord Hope, J F(Sheffield, Brightside) Robertson, Herb. (Hackney)
Blundell, Colonel Henry Hudson, George Bickersteth Round, Rt. Hon. James
Bowles, Lt-Col H F (Middlesex) Hunt, Rowland Rutherford, John (Lancashire
Brassey, Albert Jameson, Major J. Eustace Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John Jeffreys, RtHn. Arthur Fred Sackville, Col. S. G. (Stopford
Brymer, William Ernest Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. Denbigh Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Butcher, John George Kerr, John Sharpe, William Edward T.
Campbell, JHM Dublin Univ.) Keswick, William Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. Kimber, Sir Henry Sloan, Thomas Henry
Cautley, Henry Strother Knowles, Sir Lees Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Cavendish, V. C. W. Derbysh. Lambton, Hn. Frederick Wm. Smith, HC(North'mb. Tyneside
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Smith, Rt Hn J Parker (Lanarks
Chamberlain, Rt Hn J A(Worc.) Lawrence, Sir J. (Monm'th) Stanley, Hn. Arthur(Ormskirk
Chapman, Edward Lawson, Hn H L W (Mile End. Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes.)
Coates, Edw. Feetham Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Legge, Col. Hn. Heneage Stock, James Henry
Compton, Lord Alwyne Llewellyn, Evan Henry Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North Long, Rt Hn Walter (Bristol, S. Talbot, Rt Hn J G Oxf'd (Univ
Cross, Herb Shepherd (Bolton) Loyd, Archie Kirkman Thornton, Percy M.
Dalkeith, Earl of Lucas, Reginald J (Portsm'th) Tollemache, Henry James
Davenport, W. Bromley Lyttelton, Rt Hn. Alfred Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Davies. Sir Horatio D (Chatham Macdona John Cumming Tuff, Charles
Denny, Colonel MacIver, David (Liverpool) Tuke, Sir John Batty
Dickson, Charles Scott M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Turnour, Viscount
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Malcolm, Ian Vincent, Col Sir C E H(Sheffield
Doughty, Sir George Marks, Harry Hananel Walker, Col William Hall
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers- Maxwell, RtHn Sir H E(Wigt'n Walrond, Rt Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Fellowes, Rt Hn Ailwyn Edw. Melville, Beresford Valentine Warde, Colonel C. E
Fergusson, RtHn SirJ (Manc'r) Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Welby, Lt.-Col ACE (Taunton)
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Middlemore, J. Throgmorton Whiteley H. (Ashton-und Lyne
Finch, Rt. Hn. George H. Mildmay, Francis Bingham Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Finlay, Sir R. B. (Inv'rn'ssB'gs) Milner, RtHn Sir Frederick G. Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R
Fisher, William Hayes Milvain, Thomas Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart
Flower, Sir Ernest Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Forster, Henry William Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants) Wylie, Alexander
Galloway, William Johnson Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Gardner, Ernest Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Morpeth, Viscount
Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk. Morrell, George Herbert
Gordon. Hn J E (Elgin & Nairn) Morrison, James Archibald
NOES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) Black, Alexander William Bright, Allan Heywood
Allen, Charles P. Boland, John Burke, E. Haviland
Barry, E. (Cork, S. Brigg, John Caldwell, James
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Joyce, Michael Pirie, Duncan V.
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Kennedy, Vincent P. (Cavan, W. Power, Patrick Joseph
Causton, Richard Knight Kilbride, Denis Priestley, Arthur
Cawley, Frederick Lambert, George Reddy, M.
Charming, Francis Allston Lamont, Norman Redmond, John E. (Waterford
Cheetham, John Frederick Langley, Batty Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Cogan, Denis J. Law, Hugh Alex (Donegal, W.) Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Condon, Thomas Joseph Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Roche, John (Galway, East)
Crean, Eugene Layland-Barratt, Francis Roe, Sir Thomas
Cremer, William Randal Levy, Maurice Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Cullinan, J. Lewis, John Herbert Shackleton, David James
Dalziel, James Henry Lough, Thomas Sheehy, David
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Lundon, W. Shipman, Dr. John G.
Devlin, Joseph Kilkenny, N.) Lyell, Charles Henry, Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Sack, John Bamford
Dobbie, Joseph MacVeagh, Jeremiah Spencer, Rt. HnCR(Northants)
Doogan, P. C. M'Arthur, Wm. (Cornwall) Stanhope, Hn. Philip James
Duffy, William J. M'Crae, George Sullivan, Donal
Edwards, Frank M'Kean, John Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe
Elibank, Master of M'Kenna, Reginald Tennant, Harold John
Ellice, Capt ECS(Andrw'sB'ghs J M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan Markham, Arthur Basil Thomas, Sir A (Glamorgan, E.)
Eve, Harry Trelawney Mooney, John J. Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Fenwick, Charles Morgan, J Lloyd (Carmarthen) Thomas, JA (Glamorgan, Gower
Ffrench, Peter Moss, Samuel Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E. Muldoon, John Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Flavin, Michael Joseph Murphy, John Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan
Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. Nannetti, Joseph P. Weir, James Galloway
Fuller, J. M. F. J Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) White, George (Norfolk)
Gladstone, RtHn Herbert John O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary, Mid White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Griffith, Ellis J. O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Whiteley, George (York, W. R.
Hammond, John O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Harcourt, Lewis O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Harwood, George O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Hayden, John Patrick O'Dowd, John Wills, Arthur Walters (N Dorset
Helme, Norval Watson O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.
Higham, John Sharp O'Malley, William Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E. O'Mara, James Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Isaacs, Rufus Daniel O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddrsfi'd)
Jones, David B. (Swansea) Partington, Oswald
Jones, Leif (Appleby) Pearson, Sir Weetman D. TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Major Seely and Mr. Emmott.
Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Jordan, Jeremiah Philipps, John Wynford

Main Question again proposed.

SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

said he thought it was about time to some to some understanding as to the future course of the proceedings that night, and for that purpose he begged to move the adjournment of the debate. Hitherto the discussion had been convicted with perfect equanimity and good temper, but if it were to be carried beyond a certain point a different feeling night arise, and he thought the time had arrived for him to ask if the Government could not make some concession to the desires of his hon. friends and grant some extension of time for the consideration of the Report stage and the Third Read- ing of the Bill. Attempts had been made to induce the Government to make some alterations as to the clauses. Those attempts had proved futile, and he suggested that the Prime Minister ought to give additional time for the discussion on the later stages of the Bill.

Question proposed, "That the debate he now adjourned."—(Sir H. Campbell-Bannerman.)

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said that in order to prevent unnecessary friction he wished it to be thoroughly understood that although a certain time had been allotted to the discussion of the Bill there was no disposition on the part of the Government to unnecessarily curtail the discussion. From the point of view of the general convenience of the House and the general desire of hon. Members he was willing to make a concession. The complaint was that the Report stage was too short, and that it was confined to one day, i. e., Monday week. If hon. Members were prepared to accept the evening sitting of the following day and to make no objection to the Third Reading being taken at the conclusion of the Report stage, that course would add a material period for the discussion of the Bill. Having made that concession it must be understood that he had done all within his power, and, in fact, he had proposed more than some of his hon. friends would approve of. If the concession was taken in the spirit of the offer and would be the means of terminating the proceedings for that night, it was one which he was prepared to make, although he might be reproached by hon. Gentlemen at a later stage for making it, and he trusted that it would be received in the same spirit.

MR. McKENNA

was of opinion that this was a reasonable concession and ought to be accepted. The chief objection to the Government's proposals was that the time allotted to the Report stage was altogether too short. They were now offered the Tuesday evening and that might be regarded as satisfactory.

Mr. LOUGH

agreed that the Prime Minister had met them in an admirable manner, but he thought that the Committee stage, to which only two days had been allotted, could not be adequately treated. He had an Amendment on the Paper that one day more should be allotted to the Committee stage. The difficulties seemed to be more in connection with the Committee than with the Report stage, and seeing that there were such a number of Amendments on the Paper by the members and supporters of the Government, it was really on the Committee stage that the extension of time should be given.

MR. J. A. PEASE (Essex, Saffron Walden)

asked the First Lord of the Treasury whether on the following day the Third Reading was to be taken at the evening sitting, or whether it, was to be taken at both the morning and[evening sitting?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said he had suggested that there should be three, additional hours given to the Report stage. The Third Reading would remain exactly as at present, and be taken on the Wednesday at the evening sitting.

MAJOR SEELY

said there seemed to be a general consensus of opinion that this was a reasonable arrangement. He did not wish to prolong the proceedings, but he regarded the Bill itself as intolerable, and with the solitary exception of Clause 3, it ought not to have been discussed in the House. If he stood alone he would protest against the Bill in every way.

MR. JOHN REDMOND (Waterford)

said he did not intend to interfere to prevent this arrangement from being carried out; but he must be allowed to say that he considered the concession of three, hours was ridiculous, and was practically of no value at all. If, however, the regular Opposition chose to consider it as a concession, he had no business to interfere.

MR. DALZIEL

said he wanted it to be clearly understood, so far as he was concerned, that he did not regard the concession of the right hon. Gentleman as satisfactory. Instead of three hours, they ought to have three days.

SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

asked leave to withdraw his Motion.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.

Main Question again proposed.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

said that though he gathered there was not absolute unanimity, he understood that it was felt on all sides that it was better to come to the arrangement he had suggested. He had now to move two or three Amendments in the Resolution which would carry into effect the arrangement he had pat before the House.

Amendment made.

Main Question, as amended, put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 149; Noes, 113. (Division List No. 247.)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Lawrence, Sir J. (Monm'th)
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Doughty, Sir George Lawson, Hn. H. L. W(Mile End
Anson, Sir Wm. Reynell Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers- Lee, Arthur H (Hants, Fareham
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. H. O. Fellowes, Rt. Hn. Ailwyn Edw. Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Arrol, Sir William Fergusson, Rt Hn Sir J. (Manc'r Long, RtHn Walter (Bristol, S
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Bain, Colonel James Robert Finch, Rt. Hn. George H. Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsm'th)
Baird, John George Alexander Finlay, SirR. B. (Inv'rn'ss B'ghs Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred
Balcarres, Lord Fisher, William Hayes Macdona, John dimming
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r) Forster, Henry William MacIver, David (Liverpool)
Balfour, Capt C. B. (Hornsey) Galloway, William Johnson M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds Gardner, Ernest Malcolm, Ian
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christen. Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Marks, Harry Hananel
Banner, John S. Harmood- Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk. Maxwell, Rt. Hn. Sir H E (Wigt'n
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M.
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Gordon, J (Londonderry, S.) Mildmay, Francis Bingham
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Gordon, Maj Evans(T'rH'mlets Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Fredk. G.
Bignold, Sir Arthur Goschen, Hn. George Joachim Milvain, Thomas
Bingham, Lord Goulding, Edward Alfred Montagu, G. (Huntingdon)
Blundell, Colonel Henry Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants)
Bowles, Lt.-Col. H. F (Middlesex Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Brassey, Albert Halsey, Rt. Hn. Thomas F. Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John Hambro, Charles Eric Morpeth, Viscount
Brymer, William Ernest Hamilton Marq of (L'donderry Morrell, George Herbert
Butcher, John George Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Morrison, James Archibald
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. Hare, Thomas Leigh Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Nicholson, William Graham
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords NW. Parkes, Ebenezer
Chamberlain, Rt Hn JA(Worc) Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Peel, Hn. Wm. Robt. Wellesley
Chapman, Edward Hogg, Lindsay Percy, Earl
Coates, Edward Feetham Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E. Hunt, Rowland Plummer, Sir Walter R.
Compton, Lord Alwyne Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred Pretyman, Ernest George
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col Edward
Cross, Herb Shepherd (Bolton) Kerr, John Randles, John S.
Dalkeith, Earl of Keswick, William Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Davenport, W. Bromley Kimber, Sir Henry Reid, James (Greenock)
Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) Knowles, Sir Lees Remnant, James Farquharson
Dickson, Charles Scott Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Ridley, S. Forde
Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs) Warde, Colonel G. E.
Robertson, Herbert (Hackney. Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. Welby, Lt-Col. A. C. E. (Taunton
Round, Rt. Hn. James Stock, James Henry Whiteley, H. (Ashton undLyne
Rutherford, John (Lancashire) Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool Tollemache, Henry James Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R
Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw M. Wortley, Rt. Hon C. B. Stuart
Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) Tuff, Charles Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Skewes-Cox, Thomas Tuke, Sir John Batty Wylie, Alexander
Sloan, Thomas Henry Turnour, Viscount
Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) Vincent, Col. Sir C E H (Sheffield) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Smith, HC (Northmb. Tyneside Walker, Col. William Hall
Smith, Rt Hn J Parker (Lanarks Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William
NOES.
Abraham, William Cork, N. E. Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) Power, Patrick Joseph
Allen, Charles P. Jordan, Jeremiah Priestley, Arthur
Barry, E. J. (Cork, S.) Joyce, Michael Reddy, M.
Black, Alexander William Kennedy, Vincent P, (Cavan, W. Redmond, John E (Waterford)
Boland, John Kilbride, Denis Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Brigg, John Lamont, Norman Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Bright, Allan Heywood Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.) Roche, John (Galway, East)
Burke, E. Haviland Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Roe, Sir Thomas
Caldwell, James Layland-Barratt, Francis Runciman, Walter
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Levy, Maurice Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Causton, Richard Knight Lewis, John Herbert Seely, Maj. J. E. B. (Isle of Wight
Cawley, Frederick Lough, Thomas Shackleton, David James
Churchill, Winston Spencer Lundon, W. Sheeny, David
Cogan, Denis J. Lyell, Charles Henry Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Condon, Thomas Joseph MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Slack, John Bamford
Crean, Eugene MacVeagh, Jeremiah Spencer. Rt Hn CR(Northants.)
Cremer, William Randal M'Crae, George Stanhope, Hon. Philip James
Cullman, J. M'Kean, John Sullivan, Donal
Dalziel, James Henry M'Kenna, Reginald Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Tennant, Harold John
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Markham, Arthur Basil Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)
Dobbie, Joseph Mooney, John J. Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)
Doogan, P. C. Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) Thomas, J. A (Glamorgan, Gower
Duffy, William J. Muldoon, John Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Edwards, Frank Murphy, John Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Elibank, Master of Nannetti, Joseph P. Weir, James Galloway
Ellice, Capt E C (SAndrewsB'ghs Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) White, George (Norfolk)
Eve, Harry Trelawney O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.) White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Fenwick, Charles O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Ffrench, Peter O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Flavin, Michael Joseph O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Griffith, Ellis J. O'Dowd, John Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Hammond, John O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N) Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
Harcourt, Lewis O'Malley, William Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Hayden, John Patrick O'Mara, James Woodhouse. Sir J T (Hudd'rsf'd
Helme, Norval Watson O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Higham, John Sharp Partington, Oswald TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Herbert Gladstone and Mr. William M'Arthur.
Jones, David B. (Swansea) Pearson, Sir Weetman D.
Jones, Leif (Appleby) Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)

Ordered, That the proceedings in Committee and on Report of the Aliens Bill, including proceedings on the financial Resolution relating thereto, shall, unless previously disposed of, be brought to a conclusion at the times and in the manner hereinafter mentioned:—

  1. (a) The proceedings in Committee on the remaining part of Clause 1, 1258 and Clauses 2 and 3, and on the Committee stage of the financial Resolution, shall be brought to a conclusion on Monday the 10th of July.
  2. (b) The proceedings on the Report stage of the financial Resolution, and in Committee on Clauses 4, 1259 5, 6, and 7, shall be brought to a conclusion at the termination of the Afternoon Sitting on Tuesday the 11th of July.
  3. (c) The proceedings in Committee on the remaining Clauses of the Bill, or any new Clauses or Schedules, and any other proceedings necessary to bring the Committee stage to a conclusion, shall be brought to a conclusion at the termination of the Evening Sitting on Tuesday the 11th of July.
  4. (d) The consideration of the Report of the Bill shall be appointed for Monday the 17th of July, and for the Evening Sitting of the 18th of July, and shall be brought to a conclusion on that day.
  5. (e) At 11 p.m. on Monday the 10th of July, and at 6. 30 p.m. on Tuesday the 11th of July, and at 12 midnight on Tuesday the 11th of July, and at 11 p.m. on Tuesday the 18th of July, the Chairman or Speaker shall forthwith put the Question or Questions on any Amendment or Motion already proposed from the Chair, and shall next proceed successively to put forthwith the Question on any Amendments moved by the Government of which notice has been given (but no other Amendments), and on every Question necessary to dispose of the business allotted to the day or sitting;
  6. (f) In the case of Government Amendments, or of Government new Clauses or Schedules, he shall 1260 put only the Question that the Amendment be made or that the Clause or Schedule be added to the Bill, as the case may be.

The Third Reading of the Bill shall be put down for the Evening Sitting on Wednesday the 19th of July, and at Twelve midnight on that day the Speaker shall put forthwith any Question necessary to conclude the proceedings on that stage of the Bill.

The proceedings to which this Order relates shall not be interrupted except at the Afternoon Sitting at 7. 30 p.m. on the 10th and 17th of July, under the provisions of any Standing Order relating to the Sittings of the House.

After the passing of this Order, on any-day or at any Sitting to which Business is allotted under this Order, no dilatory Motion on the Bill or Resolution, and no Motion to postpone a Clause of the Bill shall be received unless moved by a Minister in charge of the Bill, and the Question on any such Motion shall be put forthwith.

No Motion under Standing Order 10 shall be received on the 10th, 11th, 17th, 18th, or 19th July, and no opposed Private Business shall be set down at the Evening Sitting for consideration on those days.

If Progress be reported, the Chairman shall put this Order in force in any subsequent sitting of the Committee.

And, it being after One of the clock, Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Adjourned at twenty-two minutes before Two o'clock.