HC Deb 08 June 1904 vol 135 cc1145-73

Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

[Mr. J. W. LOWTHER (Cumberland, Penrith) in the Chair.]

Motion made, and Question again proposed, "That it is expedient to authorise the payment, out of moneys to be provided by Parliament, of the salaries and remuneration of any persons employed and of any Expenses incurred under any Act of the present session, to make provision with respect to the Immigration of Aliens, and other matters incidental thereto."—(Mr. Secretary Akers-Douglas.)

*MR. LEVY

said prior to the adjournment of the House he had endeavoured to confine himself strictly to the financial aspect of the Bill, and he hoped he had been successful in so doing. This Bill they were told was drafted for the purpose of excluding undesirable aliens from this country. Undesirable aliens were of various types, hence it might be necessary in order to avoid complications to use a great deal of discrimination in carrying out the provisions of the Bill. Of course everyone would give the Government credit for a desire to carry it out without prejudice against any particular class. Therefore the responsibility upon those who would have to carry out its provisions would be very great, and the men whose duty it would be to carry out the provisions of the Act would have to be men of tact and judgment and they would have to receive adequate remuneration. This Resolution asked that this Committee should find all the money necessary for carrying out this Act. The Act would necessitate the appointment of officers for the purpose of examining all foreign passengers brought to any port in the United Kingdom before they were landed, and unless it was to be administered in a tentative manner, and only put into force where a certain class of aliens happened to land, it would have to be carried out in a complete manner and an officer or officers appointed to every port in the United Kingdom. Before they passed this measure into law the Committee wanted to know what it was going to cost. To say that it was impossible to make an estimate was not treating the House in a proper manner. Why, it might land this country into an expenditure of £500,000 annually. It was admitted that this Bill was not conceived in the desire to eliminate from the East End of London, and elsewhere in this country, the poor aliens who had been driven here out of their own country, and therefore the officers who would have to enforce this Act would have immense responsibility thrown upon them. They might bring this country into diplomatic conflict with foreign countries in a very short time. They would have to keep registers and records and would have to be responsible for returning to their own countries undesirable aliens who came to this. They might send some aliens, who were not undesirable, back to their own country and complications might arise when they got there, and this Bill might not only impose upon this country the expenditure of returning these persons to their own country, but of compelling them to land when they got there. At every port we should have to make arrangements for detaining these people. We should have to set up at each port a sort of compound. Let the Government ascertain what such a thing as that would cost them before they asked the Committee to pass this Resolution. They could not put up a ring fence and expect that these people would, go into it. They would have to put up a series of buildings in which to house them, otherwise there would be apt to be trouble with the nations who sent aliens to this country. The Home Secretary, therefore, had no right to come down and ask the Committee to give them a blank cheque for a matter which must cost many thousands a year, in order that this Bill might work as it had been suggested it should work. If it was merely going to be worked in the interests of a few in the East End of London then it might cost very little, but if it was intended to keep all undesirable aliens out of this country then it would cost a very great deal indeed.

MR. GALLOWAY (Manchester, S.W.)

said he understood that the expenditure under this Bill would in the ordinary course come into the Estimates of next year, but he was one of those who viewed the probable expenditure with considerable alarm. The expenditure of this country was going up by leaps and bounds, and on occasion he had attempted to obtain pledges from Ministers that the expenditure of their Departments should not increase. In his opinion, they were entitled to ask those who were going to administer this Bill for some reasonable idea of the cost the country was going to be put to in this regard. The procedure which they were compelled to follow in all such matters as this was of a most unsatisfactory character. First, the House was bound to decide whether it would carry out a certain work or not, and, having decided that it would carry out the work, it then proceeded to count the cost. It was not the fault of any Government but the procedure laid down by the House itself. It was a very unfortunate thing, but it was the procedure they had to follow, and this was the first convenient opportunity that had been given to draw attention to it. As to the cost of working this Bill, it would have been much more satisfactory and business-like if the Government had been compelled, as all Governments should be when they brought in Bills of this kind, to affix at the end of the Bill an estimate of the cost of the working of it. If such a principle applied to Government Bills it should apply still more to private Bills, and he was certain that in many cases had there been an estimate of the cost annexed to the Bill that would have greatly facilitated the progress of many Bills introduced into this House. If this Bill was to become the law of the land it should be carried out with proper officers adequately paid—officers on whose services the country could depend. The whole of Clause 1, in his opinion, would moan extra cost. The cost of the staff and forms would be considerable. The Treasury was not a Department that was fond of giving its money away, and he was perfectly certain in his own mind that the I Government had some sort of idea of what the Bill was going to cost, otherwise they would not have obtained the sanction of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. This was, therefore, the proper time to ask for some rough idea of the cost. Anxious as he was to see these aliens who caused such harm, as he thought, to our own working-class population kept out, he thought the cost of keeping them out should be within reason, and that the Committee ought to have some idea what it was going to be before they passed the Resolution. Could not the hon. Member give some idea of the extra staff which would be required to carry out the various sections of the Act? He knew it was difficult in estimating for work, the extent of which one could not see, to give a correct estimate of what it was going to cost, but every business firm had some rough idea before they started to do the work of what the cost was going to be, and this Committee ought to have some idea of the cost, if not of the number of officers that would be required in order that this Bill might be worked with advantage to the country.

*SIR FRANCIS POWELL (Wigan)

said he should not be in order at this stage in expressing satisfaction at the Government having introduced this Bill, but be hoped that it would meet with the sanction of the House of Commons that evening. Hon. Members who hid taken part in the debate seemed to him to be too impatient in their desire to get an entire scheme. In a case of this kind when the Government were making a new departure, or even a new Department, they were entitled to considerable time in which to frame their scheme and to lay it before the House. It was only by slow degrees that any change of this kind could be carried out at all. Those who were old enough to remember the Factory Acts or the Mines Statutes would remember that it was only by slow degrees, step by step, that those Statutes were placed upon the Statute-book. No Government introducing a scheme of this kind could describe it at once in detail and give even an approximate estimate of the cost. The work must be experimental, and in this case more than ordinarily so, because it had to deal with more than one Department. The Local Government Board must play an important part under this Bill, because the sanitary conditions of these people would have to be investigated with great care. Another Department must come in which would have to deal with foreigners guilty of crime, or leading, or having been guilty of leading, immoral and disreputable lives. The carrying out of such provisions as these might involve communications with foreign Governments which must necessarily entail expense. No Government could foretell what staff would be required. It was only by experience, and possibly some failures, that the Government would know how best to deal with this difficulty. He certainly felt some surprise at the attitude of hon. Gentlemen opposite with reference to reform. He found that all reforms were good which they proposed, but reforms suggested by the Unionist or Conservative Party were liable to every kind of suspicion. He did not think that was a fair attitude for them to take in a case of this kind. They claimed to be men of ideas.

*THE CHAIRMAN

You are not discussing the Resolution before the Committee. You are discussing the Bill as a whole.

*SIR FRANCIS POWELL

said he was sorry he had gone beyond the scope of the Resolution. He only wished to suggest that the Government should be allowed a fair opportunity of bringing before the House their plans for the machinery that would be essential to the carrying out of the Bill. The financial arrangements must come before the House in the form of Estimates in due season, and that would be the time to object to any proposal that might be made.

MR. MUNRO FERGUSON (Leith Burghs)

said he approved generally of some legislation of the kind proposed. He understood the Home Secretary to say that the Government was unable to give any estimate of the cost of the machinery of the Bill. Would the right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill undertake to give before the Committee stage an estimate of the cost of the administration. It was a point of considerable magnitude, and he thought they were entitled to some information on it.

MR. DALZIEL (Kirkcaldy Burghs)

said he thought the House would acquit the Home Secretary of having been guilty of any discourtesy in not placing the terms of the Resolution on the Paper. The criticisms in regard to the non-publication of the terms were intended to point out the extreme difficulty which hon. Members had in discussing this very important matter, when they only knew the actual terms from hearing the Resolution hurriedly read over by the Chairman. He hoped that in future Resolutions of this nature would be properly put on the Paper, in order that they might know exactly what the Government were asking. It would probably considerably shorten the debate that took place. One point which had been established was that the Government had not given the slightest attention to what might be termed the financial side of the measure. It was quite clear that they had not consulted the Treasury, and now they asked the House by this Resolution to devolve on the Committee upstairs responsibility which properly belonged to themselves. That was an action which there had been no attempt to defend that night. The administration of this measure might cost thousands of pounds, and surely the right hon. Gentleman had had some estimate for his guidance. Was it to be £10,000, £20,000,or £30,000? They could not attach too much importance to the fact that without money this Bill would be completely inoperative, and they had to consider to what extent they were willing to give a blank cheque to the Committee upstairs and to the Treasury for the expenses which would be incurred in carrying out the measure. If they could not get an estimate from the Government he hoped that, at all events, they would be able before the debate closed to limit the power of the Committee upstairs and the Treasury as to the amount the working of the Bill would cost.

Referring to the provisions of the Bill which involved expenditure, he pointed out that captains were required to make proper returns of aliens on their ships, and that they were to be liable to a penalty of £100 for failure to comply with the Statute. In this connection a large staff of officials would be required at home and foreign ports, and he wished to know what sort of provision was going to be made in regard to that. A great deal of inquiry would be required into the character and antecedents of aliens who arrived in this country. The aliens were to make returns for two years after landing in order that the Government might know exactly where they were living. It would be necessary to have a huge staff of private inquiry agents to find out where aliens were living when they did not make returns, otherwise the Bill would be a dead letter. Had the Government formed any idea of the cost of that branch of the work? Then there was the question of the inspection of aliens on landing, both in regard to their physical and mental condition. The man at 30s. or £2 a week could not tell whether an alien who landed was mentally strong or weak. He would like to know what member of the Cabinet was going to be in charge of the test made of the mental capacity of aliens. It seemed to him that it would be necessary to have experts in lunacy haunting the docks in order to see whether the aliens came up to the test to be imposed by the Government. In any case they would require a large medical staff at all the ports, and that would cost a great deal of money indeed. Was there any estimate of what the cost would be? There were to be registers not only for the Government, but for the benefit of public, and that proposal opened up the possibility of immense expenditure. Had the Government formed any idea what that would cost? There were to be inquiries made in different districts as to overcrowding. Besides the work falling on the Home Office, the Local Government Board was to have a good deal to do with the matter, and he presumed also that the action they took would mean the expenditure of money. He could imagine that thousands of inquiries might have to be made in the course of a year, because the Bill provided that a common informer had only to write a postcard to the Home Office and an inquiry would take place as to whether the person referred to was liable to be dealt with under the Bill. That would cost a great deal of money. There was provision in the Bill for sending back aliens who were considered undesirable. He could see great difficulty in preventing them from landing. He could see also that it might lead to a grave state of things between this country and other countries. There was also the question of keeping the aliens during the time inquiries were taking place. Establishments would have to be provided for them, and it might be weeks before the inquiries were completed. All the time this country, which was blamed for its generosity towards aliens, would have to keep them at the expense of the ratepayers until proper information could be forthcoming. The Government did not realise the importance of their own Bill if they ignored the fact that all these things meant money if the Bill was to be of any use. In refusing to give an indication of the cost it was no answer at all to say that the Committee might alter the Bill and that a statement could not be given now. That was simply a form of evasion. What estimate had the Government formed on the basis of the Bill passing in its present form? The right hon. Gentleman who spoke early in the debate said it was difficult to form an estimate, but that was not a satisfactory answer to an important matter of this kind.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (MR. WALTER LONG,) Bristol, S.

hoped the Committee would now be allowed to come to a decision on this matter, which had been exhaustively debated. It was impossible for him to meet the demand of hon. Gentlemen opposite for some sort of an estimate, as the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy had put it, in any more precise way than had been stated by his right hon. friend the Home Secretary.

MR. DALZIEL

You have the official information.

MR. WALTER LONG

said the Government believed that with the exception of a very small addition for the clerical staff the existing staff would be sufficient for the work which would be involved in the carrying out of the Bill. They might be mistaken, but to attempt to state in a precise figure the expenditure, which would be incurred in giving effect to the provisions of the Bill would almost certainly be misleading. Some calculation would apparently satisfy the hon. Gentleman however fanciful.

MR. DALZIEL

I say it is the business of the Government to give an estimate. They are paid for it, they have a staff to do the work, and they ought to be able to form an estimate which is not fanciful at all.

MR. WALTER LONG

said tin hon. Gentleman stated that he did not care whether the estimate was £5,000 or £20,000. He had said that the Government believed that a small addition to the existing machinery would be sufficient, and if they were to give an estimate of the cost it might be misleading. The hon. Gentleman opposite had given a striking example of how easy it was to speak at length on a small subject. The Local Government Board had inspectors appointed for the purpose of making inquiries and the expenses incurred would be charged against the different parties. Consequently, the Board's share of the expense would be infinitesimal. The hon. Member for Leith Burghs asked whether the Government would make a further statement before the Committee stage. He was afraid that they would not be able to make any statement which would be trustworthy. Debates often took place in regard to Bills introduced by private Members, and he should like to know how many would have the slightest chance of passing if they were subjected to the kind of criticism to which this measure had been subjected. They did not then hear the constitutional arguments which had been so fully reiterated to-night. The Government had given the Committee as much information as was possible in the circumstances, and he could only repeat the statement of the Home Secretary that they believed the Bill could be effectively applied without much cost.

SIR WALTER FOSTER (Derbyshire, Ilkeston)

said he had been quite alarmed to hear all the prognostications of the enormous expense to be incurred in the attempt to carry out the administration of this Bill. Surely whoever drafted the Bill must have had some idea in his mind as to what the expenditure would be, and, if the Government had gone into the question from an ordinary business point of view, they must have made a conjectural estimate of what the Bill would cost. In all this kind of work they had to look to whether tin expenditure was not more than the benefit to be obtained. Were they to get a benefit from what tin administration of this Bill would cost? The right hon. Gentleman said they would, and probably that might be the case, but still the Government ought to be prepared with an estimate of what it would cost. Would local machinery be required at tile ports at which the immigrants were chiefly disembarked? Would there be special medical inspectors? Where and how were the aliens to be maintained when they arrived in this country? These were all points winch must have been considered, and some estimate of their cost made. Why the contended was, that it was not fair to the Committee, and not candid on the part of those responsible for the Bill, not to give the Committee this information. They had had examples in the past of measures which they were told would be very simple and inexpensive in their administration, but which had subsequently made large invasions on the public parse. In these days when all Parties professed to have a regard for economy, the Opposition were bound to raise their voices against extravagance, and demand information as to what amount of expenditure was to be incurred in working this Bill.

MR. LLOYD-GEORGE (Carnarvon Boroughs)

said he could hardly believe that the President of the Local Government Board was serious when he stated that it was impossible to form some kind of estimate of the expense of carrying this Bill into effect. It was perfectly well known to those who travelled in America that there were a large number of officials engaged in putting into operation the Aliens Exclusion Bill in that country, and the Government could have obtained through our Consuls information as to what it cost the American Government. The simple fact was that the Government wore proceeding with this measure, as they had proceeded with every other, recklessly, haphazard, and without having thought how far-reaching it was. The President of the Local Government Board had come to the conclusion that with a few extra clerks for examining the physical condition of the immigrants, the Customs officers could do the rest of the work. He wondered whether the Government had read their own Bill. Clause 6 provided for prosecutions for a breach of the regulations. That meant employing lawyers. He knew something of lawyers himself, and their bills did not come to a trifle for additional clerical assistance. The right hon. Gentleman had dismissed the question of the cost of inquiries in crowded areas. His experience was that the official inspectors were hard-worked, and he did not believe that there was one who could have any spare time to make these inquiries. Therefore, there must be an additional staff of officials in the Local Government Board, and that could not be done for nothing. Then Clause 4 provided that aliens must not go into prohibited areas; that meant sending down officials from time to time to see whether there were aliens in these prohibited areas. The President of the Local Government Board thought that all they had got to do was to issue an Order and publish it in the London Gazette, which nobody ever saw, and which no alien could read. The Local Government Board, or some other Department, must from time to time inspect these areas to see whether there were aliens there, and whether it was done by the Local Government Board or Customs and Excise it must be paid for.

MR. WALTER LONG

said it would be done by the local authorities.

MR. LLOYD-GEORGE

said he did not care who did it, but additional expense would be incurred.

MR. WALTER LONG

said the Committee were discussing a Resolution regarding expenditure out of the Exchequer, but the hon. Gentleman was discussing expenditure by the local authorities.

MR. LLOYD-GEORGE

said supposing it was the police who made the inspec- tion, would the right hon. Gentleman say that no part of that would fall on the Exchequer? If the number of police were increased to discharge this duty, that implied an increase of contributions from the Imperial Exchequer. All this showed that the right hon. Gentleman and the Government had really never gone into any estimate of the cost of administration of this Bill. This debate would answer some purpose, if it only showed the Government what their Bill really was. Surely every proposal of this sort was largely a question of cost. Was the object worth attaining, if in the process we ran up a bill of £100,000? There was one item the Government had never contemplated. They seemed to think that the only people who required examining would be the 8,000 aliens who came here to remain. But what about the 80,000 aliens who passed through this country? Were we going to accept the statement of these immigrants that they were going through to New York or elsewhere, or were we going to have a sort of train sealed in bond to convey them across Great Britain, and were we to have officials to see that these bonded aliens went on board ship for their passage across the Atlantic? When once a Bill of this sort had been passed, it would be necessary to see to these 80,000 aliens as well as to the 8,000 who remained. If these 80,000 aliens were to be medically and mentally examined all the mad doctors in the country would not be sufficient for the purpose. Moreover an examination was to be made into their moral condition as well, and their financial position for two years previous to their arrival in this country. It took three Official Receivers with large salaries to examine the financial position of 3,000 or 4,000 people in this country, but the Bill provided for the examination of the bank-books, ledgers, and other accounts of these 80,000 aliens. This really was a most useful Bill if it only showed what a perfectly preposterous thing the Government were capable of proposing to the House. The Government said that the cost would not be much beyond that of providing a little clerical assistance. Surely the House would not commit itself to all this mad enterprise by which bills would be run up to an unknown amount. To put the meaning of the statement of the President of the Board of Trade to the test, he moved to add to the Resolution the words "Not exceeding in any one year £5,000."

Amendment proposed— At the end of the Question, to add the words, 'but not exceeding in any one year five thousand pounds.'"—(Mr. Lloyd-George.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there added."

MR. WHITLEY

said that the Committee had been pressing for a long time to have an estimate of the cost of the Bill, and the figures in the Amendment moved by his hon. friend were the actual figures given by the President of the Local Government Board.

MR. WALTER LONG

said he had never committed himself to any figure like £5,000. What he said was, that the existing staff could do the work with some little clerical assistance.

MR. WHITLEY

said that that proved the case that £5,000 would be more than enough for the few extra clerks. The Amendment went beyond the amount suggested by the Government to the Committee. He really thought that for the protection of the taxpayers they ought to put some limit to the expenditure to be incurred for the purposes of the Bill. He himself would put a higher limit than £5,000 if the Government were prepared to say what number of officials would be required. He trusted the Committee would support his hon. friend.

MR. SYDNEY BUXTON

said that they had pressed the Home Secretary and the President of the Local Government Board to give some estimate as to the cost of carrying out this Bill, with the principle of which he personally agreed; but the Government seemed to think that it was a sufficient answer to their inquiries that this was an official Bill. If it were an official Bill one would have thought that they would have gone into all matters of detail as to questions of cost in connection with it; but it now appeared that they had done nothing of the sort. If, as the right hon. Gentleman had said, the administration of the Bill would only involve the employment of a few clerks, then the Amendment of his hon. friend would be amply sufficient to cover that. He was sorry to say he was very suspicious as to the intention of the Government. He thought, with his hon. friend, that this was a "shop window" Bill. He believed the Government did not mean business, or they would have been able to give some estimate of the cost. Under these circumstances he should certainly support the Amendment. He thought the Committee had not been properly treated in regard to this matter, especially as this would be the last opportunity which the House would have to consider it. He believed that the supporters of the Bill on that side of the House had been jockeyed in regard to this question, and many of them would not have supported the Second Reading of the Bill had they known it was to be referred to a Grand Committee.

*THE CHAIRMAN

said that the hon. Gentleman was not entitled to refer on this Resolution to the Second Reading. He had already called the attention of the hon. Gentleman to the fact that he was out of order.

MR. SYDNEY BUXTON

said that at all events they were entitled to support this Amendment on the ground that they ought to limit the expenditure.

*SIR HENRY FOWLER (Wolverhampton, E.)

said that he would like to ask the Home Secretary a distinct question and he hoped he would receive a distinct answer. This was not a private Member's Bill. It was a Government Bill, and the Treasury was not in the habit of leaving these matters of finance in the position in which they were, if the Committee were to accept the observations of the right hon. Gentleman that no figures as to the cost of the administration of the Bill could be arrived at. He wished to know whether or not the Home Office had submitted to the Treasury an estimate of the probable cost of putting this Bill into operation, whether the Treasury did not discuss that estimate, and whether communications in black and white did not pass between the two offices in which the Treasury intimated that they would, assent up to a certain figure per annum. The Committee ought to have some definite statement as to what that figure was.

*MR. AKERS-DOUGLAS

said he had already stated that it had never been the practice of Parliament when Bills of this character were introduced to make a dendrite estimate or give any figures to the House, and to that answer he adhered. He would not have risen now except as a matter of courtesy to the right hon. Gentleman. He ventured to think that the debate had been carried on to an undue length. Resolutions of this sort on Bills of this character had never been debated at the same length in his experience. In regard to the other point raised by the right hon. Gentleman, he said that, of course, the expenditure under the Bill would be such as the Treasury would sanction, and communications had taken place with the Treasury but he repeated that he was certainly not going to give any estimate until he knew to what portions of the Bill the House would assent.

*SIR HENRY FOWLER

said that in order that the Committee might not be misled, unintentionally of course, by the

Home Secretary, when he said that this question had been debated at undue length, he would recall to the memory of the right hon. Gentleman a very memorable debate which took place when the present Prime Minister was Chief Secretary for Ireland and proposed that an additional Under-Secretary should be appointed. The debate on the necessary Resolution was protracted, he thought, to two, if not three, sittings and the Opposition was so strong that the Government ultimately withdrew the proposal.

MR. TOULMIN (Bury, Lancashire)

rose to continue the debate, when—

Mr. SECRETARY AKERS-DOUGLAS

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 179; Noes, 123.(Division List, No. 139.).

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Coghill, Douglas Harry Gore, Hn. G. R. O. Ormsby-(Salop
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Goschen, Hon. George Joachim
Anson, Sir William Reynell Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Goulding, Edward Alfred
Arkwright, John Stanhope Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas Gray, Ernest (West Ham)
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. Hugh O Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Greene, Sir E. W (B'ryS Edm'nd)
Arrol, Sir William Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.) Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.)
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. Cripps, Charles Alfred Gretton, John
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) Greville, Hon. Ronald
Bain, Colonel James Robert Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) Groves, James Grimble
Balcarres, Lord Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Hain, Edward
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r) Dalkeith, Karl of Hamilton, Marq of (L'ud'nderry
Balfour, Rt. Hn. Gerald W.(Leeds Dalrymple, Sir Charles Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Davenport, William Bromley Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th
Bartley, Sir George C. T. Denny, Colonel Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo.
Beach, Rt. Hn Sir Mich. Hicks Dewar, Sir T. R. (Tower Hamlets Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Dickson, Charles Scott Heaton, John Henniker
Bignold, Arthur Digby, John K. D. Wingfield- Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T.
Bigwood, James Dorington, Rt. Hn. Sir John E. Hickman, Sir Alfred
Blundell, Colonel Henry Doughty, George Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers Houldsworth, Sir Win. Henry
Bousfield, William Robert Duke, Henry Edward Howard Hn. (Kent, Faversham
Bowlest, Lt.-Col. H. F (Middlesex Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil
Brassey, Albert Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart Hudson, George Bickersteth
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Egerton Hon. A. de Tatton Hunt, Rowland
Brymer, William Ernest Faber, Edmund B. (Hants., W Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse
Bull, William James Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred
Butcher, John George Fisher, William Hayes Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W.(Salop.
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire Flannery, Sir Fortescue Keswick, William
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Flower, Sir Ernest Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Forster, Henry William Lawson, J. Grant (Yorks., N.R.
Chamberline, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Worc. Foster, Philip S. (Warwick, S.W.) Lee Arthur H. (Hants., Fareham)
Chapman, Edward Galloway, William Johnson Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Coates, Edward Feetham Gardner, Ernest Leveson-Gower, Frederick N.S.
Cochranc, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Gordon, Hn. J.E.(Elgin&Nairn) Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine
Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) Plummer, Walter R. Stone, Sir Benjamin
Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Bristol, S.) Pretyman, Ernest George Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Loyd, Archie Kirkman Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Randles, John S. Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G (Oxf'd Univ.
Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Rankin, Sir James Thorburn, Sir Walter
Macdona, John Cumming Ratcliff, R. F. Thornton, Percy M.
M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Reid, James (Greenock) Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
M'Iver, Sir Lewis(Edinburgh W. Renwick, George Tritton, Charles Ernest
K'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Richards, Henry Charles Tuff, Charles
Martin, Richard Biddulph Ridley, Hon. M.W.(Stalybridge Valentia, Viscount
Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfries-sh. Ridley, S. Forde (Sethnal Green Walker, Col. William Hall
Milvain, Thorns Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H.
Moore, William Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) Webb, Colonel William George
Morpeth, Viscount Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd
Morrison, James Archibald Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Mount, William Arthur Royds, Clement Molyneux Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) Wilson-Todd, Sir W.H.(Yorks.)
Muntz, Sir Philip A. Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E.R.(Bath
Murray, Rt. Hn. A. Graham (Bute Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart
Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Sharpe, William Edward T. Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Newdegate, Francis A. N. Smith, James Parker (Lanarks. Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) Spear, John Ward
Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington) Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs. TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acand-Hood and Mr. Ailwyn Fellowes.
Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Percy, Earl Stock, James Henry
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E. Hayden, John Patrick Power, Patrick Joseph
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Helme, Norval Watson Price, Robert John
Ainsworth, John Stirling Horniman, Frederick John Rea, Russell
Allen, Charles P. Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. Reddy, M.
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Atherley-Jones, L. Johnson, John (Gateshead) Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries
Austin, Sir John Joicey, Sir James Rickett, J. Compton
Bell, Richard Jones, William (Carnarvonshire Rigg, Richard
Boland, John Jordan, Jeremiah Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Brigg, John Joyce, Michael Robertson, Edmund (Dundee)
Burns, John Kearley, Hudson E. Robson, William Snowdon
Burt, Thomas Kilbride, Denis Roe, Sir Thomas
Buxton, Sydney Charles Langley, Batty Rose, Charles Day
Caldwell, James Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Runciman, Walter
Cameron, Robert Layland-Barratt, Francis Russell, T. W.
Causton, Richard Knight Leigh, Sir Joseph Shackleton, David James
Cawley, Frederick Leng, Sir John Sheehy, David
Condon, Thomas Joseph Levy, Maurice Sinclair, John (Forfarshire.
Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) Lewis, John Herbert Slack, John Bamford
Cremer, William Randal Lloyd-George, David Soares, Ernest J.
Crooks, William Lundon, W. Spencer, Rt. Hn. C.R (Northants
Cullinan, J. MacVeagh, Jeremiah Sullivan, Donal
Dalziel, James Henry M'Crae, George Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) Mansfield, Horace Rendall Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)
Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan) Markham, Arthur Basil Thomas, D. Alfred (Merthyr)
Delany, William Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.) Thomas, JA (Glamorgan, Gower
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen Toulmin, George
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Morley, Charles (Breconshire) Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Dobbie, Joseph Murnaghan, George Wason, Jn. Cathcart (Orkney)
Donelan, Captain A. Murphy, John Weir, Jgmes Galloway
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Nannetti, Joseph P. White, George (Norfolk)
Emmott, Alfred Nolan, Col. John P.(Galway, N.) White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Eve, Harry Trelawney Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Fenwick, Charles O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Ffrench, Peter O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. Woodhouse, Sir J.T (Huddersf' d
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry O'Malley, William
Fuller, J. M. F. Parrott, William TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Herbert Gladstone and Mr. William M'Arthur.
Goddard, Daniel Ford Partington, Oswald
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Hammond, John Perks, Robert William
Harwood, George Pirie, Duncan V.

Question put accordingly, "That those words be there added.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 133; Noes, 187. (Division List No. 140).

AYES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E. Hayden, John Patrick Power, Patrick Joseph
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Helme, Norval Watson Price, Robert John
Ainsworth, John Stirling Horniman, Frederick John Rea, Russell
Allen, Charles P. Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. Reddy, M.
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herb. Henry Hutton, Alfred E. (Motley) Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Atherley-Jones, L. Johnson, John (Gateshead) Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries
Austin, Sir John Joicey, Sir James Rickett, J. Compton
Bell, Richard Jones, William (Carnarvonshire Rigg, Richard
Boland, John Jordan, Jeremiah Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Brigg, John Joyce, Michael Robertson, Edmund (Dundee)
Burns, John Kearley, Hudson E. Robson, William Snowdon
Burt, Thomas Kilbride, Denis Roe, Sir Thomas
Buxton, Sydney Charles Lambert, George Rose, Charles Day
Caldwell, James Langley, Batty Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter
Cameron, Robert Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Russell, T. W.
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Layland-Barratt, Francis Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland)
Causton, Richard Knight Leigh, Sir Joseph Shackleton, David James
Cawley, Frederick Leng, Sir John Sheehy, David
Condon, Thomas Joseph Levy, Maurice Shipman, Dr. John G.
Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) Lewis, John Herbert Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Cremer, William Randal Lundon, W. Slack, John Bamford
Crooks, William MacVeagh, Jeremiah Scares, Ernest J.
Cullinan, J. M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Spencer, Rt. Hn. C.R (Northants
Dalziel, James Henry M'Crae, George Sullivan, Donal
Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) Mansfield, Horace Rendall Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan) Markham, Arthur Basil Tennant, Harold John
Delany, William Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N. Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) Thomas, D. Alfred (Merthyr)
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Morley, Charles (Breconshire) Thomas, J A (Glamorgan, Gower
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Moulton, John Fletcher Toulmin, George
Dobbie, Joseph Murnaghan, George Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Donelan, Captain A. Murphy, John Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Nannetti, Joseph P. Wrason, Jn. Cathcart (Orkney)
Emmott, Alfred Nolan, Col. John P.(Galway, N. Weir, James Galloway
Eve, Harry Trelawney Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) White, George (Norfolk)
Fenwick, Charles Nussey, Thomas Willans White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Ffrench, Peter O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.) Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Foster, Six Walter (Derby Co.) O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Fuller, J. M. F. O'Malley, William Woodhouse, Sir J.T (Huddersf'd
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herb. John Parrott, William
Goddard, Daniel Ford Partington, Oswald TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Lough and Mr. Runciman.
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Hammond, John Perks, Robert William
Harwood, George Pirie, Duncan V.
NOES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Bignold, Arthur Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Bigwood, James Coghill, Douglas Harry
Anson, Sir William Reynell Blundell, Colonel Henry Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse
Arkwright, John Stanhope Boscawen, Arthur Griffith Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole-
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. Hugh O Bousfield, William Robert Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas
Arrol, Sir William Bowles, Lt-Col. H.F(Middlesex Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Brassey, Albert Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. Brymer, William Ernest Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.)
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Bull, William James Cripps, Charles Alfred
Bain, Colonel James Robert Butcher, John George Cross, Alexander (Glasgow)
Balcarres, Lord Carson, Bt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Crops, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (Manch'r Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile
Balfour, Rt. Hon. G. W. (Leeds Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Dalkeith, Earl of
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Dalrymple, Sir Charles
Bartley, Sir George C. T. Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.A (Worc. Davenport, William Bromley
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir Mich. Hicks Chapman, Edward Denny, Colonel
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Coates, Edward Feetham Dewar, Sir T.R. (Tower Hamlets
Dickson, Charles Scott Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil Ratcliff, R. F.
Digby, John K. D. Wingfield- Hudson, George Bickersteth Reid, James (Greenock)
Dimsdale, Rt. Hn. Sir Joseph C Hunt, Rowland Renwick, George
Dorington, Rt. Hn. Sir John E. Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse Richards, Henry Charles
Doughty, George Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred Ridley, Hon. M. W.(Stalybridge-
Douglas, Et. Hon. A. Akers Jessel Captain Herbert Merton Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green
Doxford, Sir William Theodore Kennedy, Patrick James Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Duke, Henry Edward Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop. Robertson, Herbert (Hackney).
Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin Keswick, William Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Royds, Clement Molyneux
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Lawson, J. Grant(Yorks., N.R. Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool).
Faber, Edmund E. (Hants, W.) Lee, A. H. (Hants., Fareham) Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Seton-Karr, Sir Henry
Fisher, William Hayes Leveson-Gower, Frederick N.S. Sharpe, William Edward T.
Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Smith, James Parker (Lanarks
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand.
Flower, Sir Ernest Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Bristol, S.) Spear, John Ward
Forster, Henry William. Loyd, Archie Kirkman Stanley Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs.
Foster, P. S. (Warwick, S.W.) Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Galloway, William Johnson Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Stock, James Henry
Gardner, Ernest Macdona, John Cumming Stone, Sir Benjamin
Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn) M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Gore, Hn. G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh, W Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Goschen, Hon. George Joachim M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G (Osf'd Univ)
Goulding, Edward Alfred Martin, Richard Biddulph Thorburn, Sir Walter
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriessh. Thornton, Percy M.
Greene, Sir E.W (B'rySEdm'nds Milvain, Thomas Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Greene, Henry D.(Shrewsbury) Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Tritton, Charles Ernest
Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.) Moore, William Tuff, Charles
Gretton, John Morpeth, Viscount Valentia, Viscount
Greville, Hon. Ronald Morrison, James Archibald Walker, Col. William Hall
Groves, James Grimble Mount, William Arthur Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H.
Hain, Edward Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Webb, Colonel William George
Hamilton, Marq of (L'nd'nderry Muntz, Sir Philip A. Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd.
Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Hare, Thomas Leigh Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th) Newdegate, Francis A. N. Wilson-Todd, Sir W.H. (Yorks.
Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E.R.(Bath
Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington.) Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart
Heaton, John Henniker Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Percy, Earl Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Hickman, Sir Alfred Hummer, Walter R.
Hobhouse, Rt. Hn. H (Somers't, E Pretyman, Ernest George TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Mr. Ailwyn Fellowes.
Hope, J.F. (Sheffield, Brightside Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Randles, John S.
Howard, Jn. (Kent, Faversham Rankin, Sir James

Whereupon Mr. SECRETARY AKERS-DOUGLAS claimed, "That the main Question be now put.

Main Question put accordingly.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 192; Noes, 140. (Division List No. 141.)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Chapman, Edward
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Bignold, Arthur Coates, Edward Feetham
Anson, Sir William Reynell Bigwood, James Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.
Arkwright, John Stanhope Blundell, Colonel Henry Coghill, Douglas Harry
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. Hugh O Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse
Arrol, Sir William Bousfield, William Robert Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Bowles, Lt.-Col. H.F (Middlesex) Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. Brassey, Albert Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow)
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)
Bain, Colonel James Robert Brymer, William. Ernest Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S.)
Balcarres, Lord Bull, William James Cripps, Charles Alfred
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J.(Manch'r) Butcher, John George Cross, Alexander (Glasgow)
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton)
Balfour, Rt. Hon. C. W. (Leeds) Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire) Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Dalkeith, Earl of
Bartley, Sir George C. T. Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Dalrymple, Sir Charles
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir Mich. Hicks Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.A (Worc. Davenport, William Bromley-
Denny, Colonel Howard, Jn.(Kent, Faversham Rankin, Sir James
Dewar, Sir T.R. (Tower Hamlets Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil Ratcliff, R. F.
Dickson, Charles Scott Hudson, George Bickersteth Reid, James (Greenock)
Digby, John K. D. Wingfield Hunt, Rowland Renwick, George
Dimsdale, Rt. Hn. Sir Joseph C. Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse Richards, Henry Charles
Dorington, Rt. Hn. Sir John E. Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. Ridley, Hon. M. W. (Stalybridge
Doughty, George Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W.(Salop.) Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Doxford, Sir William Theodore Keswick, William Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Duke, Henry Edward Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin Lawson, J. Grant (Yorks., N.R. Royds, Clement Molyneux
Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart Lee, A. H. (Hants., Fareham) Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r) Leveson-Gower, Frederick N.S. Sharpe, William Edward T.
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.
Fisher, William Hayes Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Bristol, S.) Spear, John Ward
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Lonsdale, John Brownlee Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs,
Flower, Sir Ernest Loyd, Archie Kirkman Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Forster, Henry William Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Stock, James Henry
Foster, P. S. (Warwick, S.W.) Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Stone, Sir Benjamin
Galloway, William Johnson Macdona, John Cumming Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Gardner, Ernest M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Gordon, Hn. J.E. (Elgin & Nairn) M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh, W Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G (Oxf'd Univ.
Gore, Hn. G. R. C. Ormsby-(Salop M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Thorburn, Sir Walter
Goschen, Hon. George Joachim Martin, Richard Biddulph Thornton, Percy M.
Goulding, Edward Alfred Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriessh.) Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Milvain, Thomas Tritton, Charles Ernest
Greene, Sir E.W. (B'ryS Edm'nds Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.) Tuff, Charles
Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Valentia, Viscount
Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.) Moore, William Walker, Col. William Hall
Grenfell, William Henry Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H.
Gretton, John Morpeth, Viscount Webb, Colonel William George
Greville, Hon. Ronald Morrison, James Archibald Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd
Groves, James Grimble Mount, William Arthur Whiteley, H. (Ashton-und.-Lyne
Hain, Edward Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Hamilton, Marq. Of (L'nd'nderry Muntz, Sir Philip A. Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) Wilson-Todd, Sir W.H. (Yorks.
Hare, Thomas Leigh Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E.R.(Bath
Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th Newdegate, Francis A. N. Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart
Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington) Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Heaton, John Henniker Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley
Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Percy, Earl TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Mr. Ailwyn Fellowes.
Hickman, Sir Alfred Plummer, Walter R.
Hobhouse, Rt. Hn. H (Somers't, E) Pretyman, Ernest George
Hope, J.F. (Sheffield, Brightside Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Randles, John S.
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.) Condon, Thomas Joseph Fenwick, Charles
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) Ffrench, Peter
Ainsworth, John Stirling Cremer, William Randal Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond
Allen, Charles R. Crooks, William Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.)
Ashton, Thomas Gair Cullinan, J. Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herb. Henry Dalziel, James Henry Fuller, J. M. F.
Atherley-Jones, L. Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) Goddard, Daniel Ford
Austin, Sir John Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan) Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton
Bell, Richard Delany, William Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.
Boland, John Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Hammond, John
Brigg, John Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Harwood, George
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Hayden, John Patrick
Burns, John Dobbie, Joseph Helme, Norval Watson
Burt, Thomas Donelan, Captain A. Holland, Sir William Henry
Buxton, Sydney Charles Duncan, J. Hastings Horniman, Frederick John
Caldwell, James Elibank, Master of Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C.
Cameron, Robert Ellice, Capt. E.C (SAndrw's Bghs Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley)
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Johnson, John (Gateshead)
Causton, Richard Knight Emmott, Alfred Joicey, Sir James
Cawley, Frederick Eve, Harry Trelawney Jones, William (Carnarvonshire)
Jordan, Jeremiah. Nussey, Thomas Willans Shackleton, David James
Joyce, Michael O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.) Sheehy, David
Kearley, Hudson E, O'Brien., Patrick (Kilkenny) Shipman, Dr. John G.
Kilbride, Denis O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Lambert, George O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) Slack, John Bamford
Langley, Batty O'Malley, William Soares, Ernest J.
Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Parrott, William Spencer, Rt. Hn. C.R (Northants
Layland-Barratt, Francis Partington, Oswald Sullivan, Donal
Leigh, Sir Joseph. Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Leng, Sir John. Perks, Robert William Tennant, Harold John
Levy, Maurice Pirie, Duncan V. Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)
Lewis, John Herbert Power, Patrick Joseph Thomas, D. Alfred (Merthyr)
Lough, Thomas Price, Robert John Thomas, J A (Glamorgan, Gower
Lundon, W. Rea, Russell Toulmin, George
MacVeagh, Jeremiah Reddy, M. Trevelyan, Charles Philips
M'Crae, George Redmond, John E. (Waterford) Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
M'Kenna, Reginald Rickett, J. Compton Weir, James Galloway
Mansfield, Horace Randall Rigg, Richard White, George (Norfolk)
Markham, Arthur Basil Roberts, John. H. (Denbighs.) White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Morley, Charles (Breconshire) Robson, William Snowdon Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Moulton, John Fletcher Roe, Sir Thomas Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Murnaghan, George Rose, Charles Day Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Murphy, John Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter Woodhouse, Sir J.T (Huddersf'd
Nannetti, Joseph P. Runciman, Walter
Newnes, Sir George Russell, T. W. TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Herbert Gladstone and Mr. William M'Arthur.
Nolan, Col-John P. (Galway, N.) Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland)
Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Seely, Maj. J. E. B. (Isle of Wight)

Resolved, That it is expedient to authorise the payment, out of moneys to he provided by Parliament, of the salaries and remuneration of any persons employed and of any Expenses incurred under any Act of the present session, to make provision with respect to the Im-

migration of Aliens, and other matters incidental thereto.

Question put, "That the Chairman do report this Resolution to the House."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 192; Noes, 142. (Division List No. 142.)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Faber, Edmund B. (Hants., W.)
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.A. (Worc. Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J.(Manc'r
Anson, Sir William Reynell Chapman, Edward Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst
Arkwright, John Stanhope Clive, Captain Percy A. Fisher, William Hayes
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. Hugh O. Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon
Arrol, Sir William Coghill, Douglas Harry Flannery, Sir Fortescue
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Flower, Sir Ernest
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Forster, Henry William
Bagot, Cant. Josceline FitzRoy Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas Foster, P. S. (Warwick, S.W.)
Bain, Colonel James Robert Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Galloway, William Johnson
Balcarres, Lord Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Gardner, Ernest
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J.(Manch'r.) Craig, Chaw. Curtis (Antrim, S.) Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn)
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Cripps, Charles Alfred Gore, Hn G. R. C. Ormshy-(Salop
Balfour, Rt. Hon. G. W. (Leeds Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) Goschen, Hon. George Joachim
Balfour, Kenneth. R. (Christch. Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) Gray, Ernest (West Ham)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Greene, Sir E.W (B'ryS Edm'nds
Bartley, Sir George C. T. Dalkeith, Earl of Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury)
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir Mich. Hicks Dalrymple, Sir Charles Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.)
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Davenport, William Bromley Grenfell, William Henry
Bignold, Arthur Denny, Colonel Gretton, John
Bigwood, James Dewar, Sir T.R. (Tower Hamlets Greville, Hon. Ronald
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith Dickson, Charles Scott Groves, James Grimble
Bousfield, William Robert Digby, John K. D. Wingfield- Hain, Edward
Bowles, Lt.-Col. H.F (Middlesex Dimsdale, Rt. Hn. Sir Joseph C. Hamilton, Marq of (L'nd'nderry
Brassey, Albert Dorington, Rt. Hn. Sir John E. Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Doughty, George Hare, Thomas Leigh
Brymer, William Ernest Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th
Bull, William James Doxford, Sir William Theodore Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo.
Butcher, John George Burning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin Hay, Hon. Claude George
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Heaton, John Henniker
Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriessh.) Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Hickman, Sir Alfred Milvain, Thomas Sharpe, William Edward T.
Hoare, Sir Samuel Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.) Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.
Hobhouse, Rt. Hn. H (Somers't, E Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Hope, J.F.(Sheffield, Brightside Moore, William Spear, John Ward
Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Morgan, D. J. (Welthamstow) Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs.)
Houston, Robert Paterson Morpeth, Viscount Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Howard, Jno. (Kent, Faversham Morrison, James Archibald Stock, James Henry
Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil Mount, William Arthur Stone, Sir Benjamin
Hudson, George Bickersteth Mowbray, Sir Robert Cray C. Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Hunt, Rowland Muntz, Sir Philip A. Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute) Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G. (Oxf'd Univ.
Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Thornton, Percy M.
Jessel, Captain Herbert Morton Newdegate, Francis A. N. Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) Tuff, Charles
Kerr, John Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington) Valentia, Viscount
Keswick, William Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley Walker, Col. William Hall
Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Percy, Earl Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H.
Lawson, J. Grant (Yorks., N.R. Plummer, Walter R. Webb, Colonel William George
Lee, A. H. (Hants., Fareham) Pretyman, Ernest George Wharton, Rt. Hon John Lloyd
Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward Whiteley, H. (Ashton-und-Lyne
Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Randles, John S. Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Leveson-Gower, Frederick N.S. Ratcliff, R. F. Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Loder, Gerald Walter Erskino Reid, James (Greenock) Wilson-Todd, Sir W.H. (Yorks.
Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) Renwick, George Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E.R. (Bath
Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Bristol, S.) Richards, Henry Charles Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart
Lonsdale, John Brownlee Ridley, Hon. M. W. (Stalybridge Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Loyd, Archie Kirkman Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Macdona, John Gumming Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert. TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Mr. Ailwyn Fellowes.
M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Royds, Clement Molyneux
M'Iver Sir Lewis (Edinburgh, W Russell, T. W.
M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Martin, Richard Biddulph Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.) Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Kilbride, Denis
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Duncan, J. Hastings Kitson, Sir James
Ainsworth, John Stirling Elibank, Master of Langley, Batty
Allen, Charles P. Ellice, Capt. E.C (SAndrw's Bghs Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)
Ashton, Thomas Gair Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Layland-Barratt, Francis
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herb. Henry Emmott, Alfred Leigh, Sir Joseph
Atherley-Jones, L. Evans, Sir F. H. (Maidstone) Leng, Sir John
Austin, Sir John Eve, Harry Trelawney Levy, Maurice
Bell, Richard Fenwick, Charles Lewis, John Herbert
Boland, John Ffrench, Peter Lough, Thomas
Brigg, John Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Lundon, W.
Brown, George M. (Edinburgh) Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) MacVeagh, Jeremiah
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)
Burns, John Fuller, J. M. F. M'Crae, George
Buxton, Sydney Charles Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herb. John M'Kenna, Reginald
Caldwell, James Goddard, Daniel Ford Mansfield, Horace Kendall
Cameron, Robert Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton Markham, Arthur Basil
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Causton, Richard Knight Hammond, John Houlton, John Fletcher
Cawley, Frederick Harwood, George Murnaghan, George
Condon, Thomas Joseph Hayden, John Patrick Murphy, John
Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) Helme, Noryal Watson Nannetti, Joseph P.
Cremer, William Randal Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Newnes, Sir George
Crooks, William Holland, Sir William Henry Nolan, Col. John P. (Galway, K.
Cullinan, J. Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South}
Dalziel, James Henry Horniman, Frederick John Nussey, Thomas Willans
Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.)
Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan) Hutton, Alfred F. (Morley) O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Delany, William Johnson, John (Gateshead) O'Brien, P, J. (Tipperary, N.)
Devlin Chas. Ramsay (Galway) Joicey, Sir James O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.)
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, K.) Jones, William (Carnarvonshire O'Malley, William
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Jordan, Jeremiah Parrott, William
Dobbie, Joseph Joyce, Michael Partington, Oswald
Donelan, Captain A. Kearley, Hudson E. Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Power, Patrick Joseph Shackleton, David James Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Price, Robert John Sheehy, David Wason, Jn. Cathcart (Orkney)
Rea, Russell Shipman, Dr. John G. Weir, James Galloway
Reddy, M. Sinclair, John (Forfarshire) White, George (Norfolk)
Redmond, John E. (Waterford) Slack, John Bamford White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Rickett, J. Compton Spencer, Rt. Hn C.R. (Northants) Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Rigg, Richard Sullivan, Donal Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Robson, William Snowdon Tennant, Harold John Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Roe, Sir Thomas Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) Woodhouse, Sir J.T (Huddersf'd
Rose, Charles Day Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)
Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter Thomas, D. Alfred (Merthyr) TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Lambert and Mr. Soares.
Runciman, Walter Thomas, J A (Glsmorgan, Gower
Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) Toulmin, George
Seely, Maj. J. E. B.(Isle of Wight Trevelyan, Charles Philips

Resolution to be reported upon Monday next.